Latest: confirmed on Thursday 6 February 2020 that DHS has “discontinued” all sport fixtures against Glenwood for the foreseeable future.
The hopes of starting a new decade with a clean slate are quickly evaporating in KZN.
Recruitment is again at the heart of a drama which threatens to see Durban High School (DHS) sever all sporting ties with Glenwood, their main rivals who are based just a few kilometres away in the next door residential area.
A meeting to be held between officials from both schools on Monday, 27 January 2020, might be the last hope of saving a situation, which at the moment is set to make the mainstream media headlines very soon.
If it was a clear-cut one-way move of sportsmen from DHS to Glenwood, one might understand the extreme measure that DHS is prepared to go to in order to protect their own interests – there is evidence proving that if a school wasn’t taking another seriously before, by cancelling sports events, an almost guarantee outcome is that the “perpetrators” would be all ears and a lot more cooperative from there on out. However shared information suggests that DHS have themselves benefited from acquiring useful Glenwood sportsmen this year; as have a couple of other local high schools.
How the powers that be at DHS are going to spin an expected school-parent or media release to create a compelling enough argument that they are in the right and acted in a non-hypocritical manner is going to be a focal point. For the court of public opinion to be as kind as it has to other schools who have taken the same course of action, the bulletproof wording of such a document may be vital.
Around the country, most fall-outs of this nature occur over talented school sportsmen moving between high schools. Although the DHS dispute with Glenwood does include this element, there is also a battle being waged over two 2019 primary school rugby players who chose Glenwood over DHS as the starting point of their high school careers this year. Granted that Grade-8 recruiting of primary school students for standalone high schools is considered fair game in most regions, KZN has had complications with this, as evidenced by a bursary announcement cut-off date agreement between the main boys’ private schools in the province.
In this particular DHS-Glenwood saga, the unhappiness over the two rugby talents seems to stem from DHS talent-scouting the two boys out of obscurity and then arranging funding for them to attend a geared up Durban primary school – Glenwood Prep. Obviously the name Glenwood Prep seems to suggest a complication all of its own but this will be explained in paragraphs below.
Understandably nothing was really intended to be a charitable free of charge gesture so there had to have been some sort of agreement between the parents/guardians of the two boys and DHS, that in return for sponsoring their stay at Glenwood Prep, the two would enrol for Grade-8 and do their high schooling at DHS. DHS most likely would have communicated this to other interested schools. As it turned out the two via representatives were marketed to several other schools including Glenwood who all showed great interest. When the boys joined Glenwood, DHS (their sponsor) had in a sense wasted that money and the presumed commitment made by the parents to DHS, formal or not, had been broken and no doubt there is strong feeling that Glenwood had a part to play.
On the flipside, this matter might spark a huge debate all on its own about the legitimacy and moral acceptability of such an arrangement between a high school and primary school students especially when it’s not a “win-win” situation at the end of the day. For the record, DHS is not the only school engaged in this junior school sponsoring practice.
With regards to quantifying the talent of the two players in question, well they proved to be outstanding for the Sharks under-13 Craven Week team that lifted the unofficial title at the event in 2019.
The first official rugby match between DHS and Glenwood took place way back in 1920, meaning this year’s match will be / would have been the 100th year of schoolboy rugby between the two Durban big guns. Translated: there will be huge pressure on whoever pulls the plug here to reconsider.
In terms of schoolboy rugby, Glenwood have reigned supreme in KZN in most years during the last decade or so. During this time they have also attracted a quite a bit of negative attention and having schools not want to play them isn’t something new to them. Over time Glenwood has learned to tread a bit more carefully/smartly. Also in general there has been more acceptance of how Glenwood go about their business, which to be honest is not that different to a number of other top rugby schools around South Africa, many of whom who have perhaps benefited from being more discrete in how they conduct sensitive affairs. In a few KZN circles there has been appreciation for Glenwood’s ambition, which has seen other local schools including DHS picking up the pace in an effort to keep up with the “Green Machine”.
The “horseflies” of DHS went through a difficult time during a large part of the 2010’s and there were even suggestions at one stage that they should be demoted to KZN’s tier-2 because their results not up to standard. Through hard work, key appointments and large investment, ‘School’ made up a lot of lost ground, evidenced by the increasing number of teams they began fielding on any given Saturday. In more recent years they have tasted success, ending winless droughts against all the top rugby schools in the province in the process.
The battle for supremacy is not confined to the rugby field. There is a huge underlying need vital to the survival of both schools as good well-rounded education institutions and that is fees-payers. With government subsidising 50% of the school staff at set rates at best, collecting enough school fees on time can prove to be a make or break for a school in its attempts to pay all staff on pay day and keep up with the spending demands to meet the prerequisite of being branded as a top school. Where rugby fits in, is that the draws attention to a boy’s school seemingly like no other event apart from the matric results announcement or a major negative outcome like the recent Parktown Boys’ High drowning tragedy and the aftermath of that. So if rugby performance can be harnessed to portray a positive image of the school, it potentially helps achieve or surpass the budgeted financial targets and thereby aids to keep a school’s nose pointing in the right direction. DHS and Glenwood are in competition in many of the same markets for the same fees-payers. If there was say a swing of 50 such students towards one school and away from the other, it could have huge financial consequences.
A long history of sporting rivalry between the two Durban schools has given rise to traditions including a couple of outstanding terms and war-cries reserved for each other and the big occasion of derby day.
When one Glenwood insider recently suggested that his school’s boys only had to go a few hundred metres to Glenwood Prep to ring the bell on the eve of the big rugby derby, instead of a 3km crossing of Berea Road to ring the one at DHS as part of an age-old tradition, it sort of gave a good new insight into where a part of the problem between the two schools now lies.
Interestingly once upon a time, Glenwood was struggling to lay down a marker as a rugby school. Then Trevor Kershaw, a DHS old boy took over the leadership and as headmaster, amongst his bad deeds, inspired a change that lead to the Glenwood brand becoming known nationwide. Things were not too different for the nearby primary school, Parkview. The relatively unknown outside its district co-ed, had participated in rugby without much success before another DHS old boy Louis Arde became their headmaster. He motivated a school name change to Glenwood Prep in 2003 and Glenwood Prep became a force to be reckoned with in KZN primary school rugby. While Glenwood High are affectionately known the name “grasshoppers” due to their green school blazers, the new Glenwood Prep began to proudly sport the slogan: “home of the junior grasshoppers”, painted on their walls for added effect. There seemed to be a good and heathy bond between the two schools. Helping relationship matters along was that at the high school, Kershaw’s deputy headmaster Tony Pinheiro was also a rugby man of note, who coached the 1st XV rugby along the way and had to endure the negative publicity Glenwood’s actions sometimes brought about.
Then fast forward several years from there and post the Kershaw era to 2017 when Arde is appointed as the DHS CEO of their Foundation at the start of the year, while Pinheiro is appointed the headmaster of DHS half way through the year. A number of Glenwood sport staff also defect to DHS soon afterwards. This really spiced things up in terms of rivalry both on and off the field. The once close alignment of Glenwood Prep to Glenwood High also seems to be shifting and the “home of the junior grasshopper” looks as if it is in growing need of a caret with the insertion “and increasing number of horseflies” to be true to its current disposition.
The irony is that the dust has now settled, DHS has a fairly ho-hum fixture list and Glenwood is smiling with a great /14 team and great fixture list. The DHS foundation is out of pocket as well. The losers here are clearly DHS.
@Buddy: Porties is about the level DHS are now, maybe George Campbell, Hillcrest and Grosvenor for the next 3 Founders Days…
Mr Spooner Sir, now that my Mate @Chalkdust opened up this box full of steroids, bad steroids can you please sort it out !!
The boys want to play, keep the tradition alive !!!
@De-flea the Dog: I heard today that DHS could be playing Port Natal on their Founders’ Day? That will be sad
@Buddy: ???
@Chalkdust: Eish Pal, now you have opened up a new can of worms ???
Very interesting ………lovey, please get the popcorn and G&T ready !! ???
Aside from the ongoing alligations between DHS and Glenwood specifically about talent poaching. Is there any truth to further unpublished alligations from DHS parents that unsavoury initiation practices at the school prompted the move of their boys to Glenwood?
@De-flea the Dog: Probably going to happen over time if i read between the lines.
@Strepie: I have heard that, but not yet. Soccer, basketball & hockey are increasing in popularity. It would be a super sad day if any of the big 8 drop rugby (Hilton, Michaelhouse, Kearsney, Glenwood, DHS, College, Westville & Northwood)….
@Buddy: Generally a well attended derby game of around 8,000 to 10,000 spectators. It’s got smaller over the years as the number of teams DHS can put out has reduced, I last saw about 11 or 12. The Friday night bell ringing shenanigans, hanging carrots from the posts, unique ‘Swat the fly’ & ‘I’d rather be a horsefly than go to Glenwood High’ songs, Jimolayo Jo’s, competing bands and general competition will be missed. Pinhiero and co obviously think they are bigger than the schools 100 year rivalry and history…
@De-flea the Dog: Are there schools that consider dropping rugby all together and rather focus on other sports?
@De-flea the Dog:I was actually looking forward to this fixture as DHS appointed a quality coach/director and they acquired a few new boys for their First XV, it would have been massive.
Feeling sorry for the boys, they just want to play ruggas and don’t care about the politics Mr Spooner!
@Buddy: I reckon there are less than 10,000 schoolboy players of all ages across the province. Glenwood has about 20 teams so that’s 300 boys and there are 7 other schools who can do that at a push. WP has more players than that just in Stellenbosch…
@Strepie: yep, more competitive at hockey, waterpolo and cricket. Surfing is usually in the bag.
@Strepie: must agree with Dog man, numbers very low for rugby players, that’s why you would sometimes find boys from Gauteng in a Durban school.
@Buddy: Well the win/loss ratio gap was closing, 69 wins for DHS and 59 wins for Glenwood, they just trying to slow that down because with 2 games a year we would match them within 5 years…..heaven forbid…
@De-flea the Dog: Probably true. KZN more famous for cricket or waterpolo?
@De-flea the Dog: doesn’t matter how they try to spin this story they will always blame Glenwood.
The next thing we will hear is that a 35 week old unborn fetus was given a nursery school scholarship by DHS but Glenwood arranged a C section and delivered the baby premature……..and now he is at Glenwood
I give up, sorry Mr, sak vir 6 Jannie
@Strepie: Compare the numbers playing between WP and KZN, that might give you a reason for that.
@De-flea the Dog: Once in a blue moon occasion.
@Jakkals: good idea but are kids really commodities these days? Horse traded! Next thing DHS might be offering disadvantaged mothers at Umlazi hospital support for boys born there to ensure they attend DHS in the future ;-)
Schools should use a platform like this when recruiting and looking for players. Players that want to move can then register on there and will be fair game for schools looking to recruit certain positions. Schools can also advertise their player requirements for the season, and then players looking to join them can contact the school directly. It will take all the underhanded dealings out of the equation.
http://www.rugbytrader.co.za
@Buddy: Winging Horseflies need to speak to the respective parents as it’s ultimately the parents decision. These sportsman would have had offers from many schools, offers don’t have to be accepted. Schools would have been talking to them early in 2019 and offers would have been tabled then. If they changed there minds, why should the school benefiting from their choice be held to ransom. These kids are moving at a natural change point in their schooling careers, they need to get it right. Moving post joining a school seems like suicide. If I was a sporty kid in Durban, there are only two real choices, Glenwood and Westville, especially if you want to play the best and get good internal competition.
@Strepie: like making the unofficial final in 2018?
Does the in-fighting between KZN schools be a reason for their recent poor performances at Craven Week?
@ForeverHorseFly: we must meet for a few beers at La Bella buddy, you okes from the blue school ain’t so bad ????
Whatever the outcome is long term with regards to this fixture, I am encouraged by the ambition showed by DHS to improve their rugby. They seem to have the resources to go out and recruit for the grade 8 level and also have a new director of rugby who seems to have the right credentials (and thankfully not an ex Glenwood employee lest we be accused of “poaching” him as well).
I’m sure they would have learned from what happened this year and will be stronger for it and ensure it doesn’t happen again going forward.
@AbsolutMenlo: The 3 boys was released with transfer papers by DHS.The parents was not happy with something that happend at DHS and then opted to enroll the boys at Glenwood.
Exactly the same protocol that DHS claimed that was followed to the tee when the 2 Water polo boys joined DHS from Glenwood
Unfortunately I can’t comment on the HMA and haven’t seen the fine print
@Buddy: … so is the Headmaster agreement out the window for GW re second case?
@De-flea the Dog: If you want to be the best, play the best ! Win or loose !
Don’t make silly excuses when Johnny takes your peanut butter and jam sandwiches when your are not looking. Fix your wobbly scrum techniques and field your best sides !
@beet: regarding the statement made by Mr Spooner.
I see this as very risky from DHS as it seems that the DHS SGB has no clue of the real circumstances and reasoning why the boys left DHS or not pitching up for orientation camp and hope the truth will revealed
Hehehe I also note that Mr Spooner is a fan of the blog, Welcome Sir !
@Buddy: Glenwood don’t care who plays, their are 15 humans on the field, play against them. They play Grey Bloem every year, nothing else is a bigger challenge at this level…
@beet: agree with you but think Glenwood would have allowed him to play, the question would be if the rest of the KZN schools would happy.
Promises was made by DHS to the boy, hope it will not backfire ……
@De-flea the Dog: I might be mistaken but I think some of the money injected into DHS comes from the sale of the very lucrative DHS Old Boys club property in Durban North. The land was worth a small fortune.
@beet: Exactly, under the radar deposits of cash in parents accounts is the way it’s going. Who can ever know or track each of these cases. DHS seem to make out they have done nothing wrong when we all know this practice is going ahead. Suddenly DHS appointed a CEO a few years back, why? Because suddenly they had huge injections of cash from the likes of Stephen Saad, who for him giving R5 million would be pocket change. Imagine the clout PBHS would have if Elon Musk suddenly loved his alma mater. Unfortunately I don’t see a way around this underhanded sponsorship…..so for now DHS are the main losers here as they lose out on a traditional fixture against a top opponent, so don’t test themselves as much as they could have done before..
@Buddy: I’m not sure of o’Neill’s exact circumstances but the emphasis placed on the HMA by DHS is possibly going to make his case for playing KZN interschools rugby more difficult. That is under the assumption that as an u19 who only joined his current school after gr10, he is classified as a post-matric equivalent now. Possibly made more difficult by him joining from an out of province school.
What he really needs is the intervention of his DHS headmaster, to ask the other headmasters to allow his participation as an exception to the HMA.
With regards to acquiring a sportsman from another high school I have to say that the approaching and funding of the sportsman can be achieved through a number of different means.
Many assume that the boy+parents will be approached by an employee or a recognised paid associate of the school itself and his tuition+boarding+extras etc will be funded out of the school funds. This is a direct link but its becoming very uncommon.
The same end result can be achieved through a virtually untraceable connection. EG a representative with secretive ties to the school, approaching the sportsman+parents and the sportsman then being funded by a 3rd party such as a generous wealthy parent or old boy or even by an entity that is compensated in some form or another by the school or its connected party.
The absence of the direct link then allows a school official to categorically deny approaching or sponsoring the sportsman. In its context the statement would be 100% accurate but in terms of the bigger picture it might be regarded as a misleading or false statement.
Hi All
I have received this update and have reason to believe it is an official DHS document.
Start:
On some blog posts there has been some speculation about what led to this decision. While there are some elements of truth in some of the speculation, there is also a lot of inaccurate conjecture which we would like to correct with a summary of what happened from our viewpoint.
There are, broadly speaking, two issues or incidents involving two separate groups of boys. While both issues involve Grade 8 pupils who were enrolled and who we expected to be learners at DHS in 2020, and all six in total are currently at Glenwood, the circumstances of the two incidents are vastly different, hence our reticence to group them together.
In the first instance boys of talent were identified from a severely disadvantaged background. They would otherwise have had no means of attending a school that could grow their talent and therefore they were offered scholarships to attend Glenwood Prep in 2018 and 2019 to attend DHS from 2020. The personal circumstances of the boys were such that the DHS Foundation agreed to fund their tuition and accommodation costs.
This was done in an effort to give the boys an opportunity they would not otherwise have had and as a means of easing their transition to DHS. Contracts were put in place with the respective parents and the Foundation.
In 2019 we were aware that Glenwood High School had made approaches to the boys, but after meetings between the two schools, DHS was satisfied that Glenwood had agreed that they would stop any attempts to lure the pupils away from DHS.
Only when the boys did not attend orientation was DHS notified that they had opted to attend Glenwood for their Grade 8 year.
The second case is more concerning to DHS because the three pupils involved had already enrolled and attended DHS prior to their sudden group decision to move into the Glenwood boarding establishment.
This is in direct conflict with what is termed the Headmasters Agreement that no learners would be “poached” from any other school once that learner has commenced at the school. In addition, the Agreement states that if there are sufficient reasons to change schools, the learners cannot be given any form of bursary or scholarship.
As far as we understand, at least the pupils’ accommodation costs have been subsidised.
With regards to the movement of boys from Glenwood to DHS, we have made records available to Glenwood which prove conclusively that no incentive has been offered to any boy who has moved to DHS, and no approaches whatsoever were made by DHS or their representatives. In every case where a learner requests a move to DHS, the proper channels are strictly followed
There has been comment regarding staff being “lured” to DHS from Glenwood and once again we wish to place it on record that any movement was done strictly within the applicable guidelines agreed between the schools. In some cases, staff members made the transition via other schools or with a break in service after leaving Glenwood.
We trust this sets the record straight and ends some of the speculation.
End.
@Buddy: @Greenman: @Hulk: Go back to 2013 and 2016 Topics,Kloof cancell all fixtures against Garsies.
The bottom line is”The decision has been made”.Best advice is from Umtata.
@Skywalker: No, not clear cut. DHS is crying over kids who 1 – never started at their school and 2 – started there under duress and didn’t want to be there.
What about the 2 boys, who were in Glenwood, that DHS poached last year? They keep very quiet about that. What about the boy they tried to poach the same day, or day after, they cancelled the fixtures?
I agree “poaching” is wrong. However, Glenwood is getting flack for giving primary school boys an opportunity where DHS are poaching their high school kids. This is absurd. But because they seemingly have all this money they can run to all press and cry.
I am not buying this.
Very sad state of affairs! Nobody wants to play with us!
@Buddy: especially when it’s the Director of Aquatics & Recruitment, the Director of Sports, Director of Cricket, Director of Hockey, Head of Recruitment and a few other A team rugby coaches….just coincidence obviously OR maybe financial offers they couldn’t refuse. Teachers are not paid very well so Stephen Saad’s extras and perks must have been attractive…
@Buddy: OK, good to know. I find it very weird that he was so unhappy he had to leave, not happened much before but every case is different. My point is many kids have been lured away from Glenwood both at grade 7/8 level and higher, quite a few to Hilton. You win some you lose some, that’s life
@Umtata: ok my brother, so if your acting Principal joins DHS as their new Principal and you lose about 10 educators and a recruiter within a very short time to DHS it’s not pouching ?
Let’s then call it Head-hunting or what ever you want to call it?
@De-flea the Dog: Mhkize left Glenwood end of 2017 as he was unhappy at Glenwood. Was not poached by Westville!
O’Niell was actually pouched by KES at the Grant Khomo week 2017 and then returned 2019 to DHS. Not 100% sure what the reason was for his return to KZN as he will turn 19 this year.
@Buddy: Westville poached big centre Mhkize for 2019 and DHS poached prop Kaide O’Neill, both grade 10 or 11, nothing said and no hand bags, Glenwood just got on with it..
The article @beet posted clearly states that there were contracts signed and discussions with GW about the scholars/contracts in 2019. Why are GW bloggers ignoring this?
Pouching teachers??? LOL
The fixture has been cancelled, allow for a cooling period and start negotiations, in the 3rd term, for the fixture to resume in 2021.
@Bush: That all makes sense apart from one point: Spear winning the World Tennis Champs when he was two – he said he was three!
@chopper: Of course we have rugby schools in KZN, House has beaten Monnas twice, GW has beaten GCB, Affies, Bois High and Hilton. Spear won the World Tennis Champs at the age of 2?????
Schools in KZN don’t have fixtures like the real rugby schools. When a KZN School is going to have a good first team they will then want to challenge a Top Rugby School.
@ForeverHorseFly: ok so let’s just get this scrum stable because I’m now so confused.
Firstly DHS poached staff and a lot of them from Glenwood but Glenwood nor it SGB cancelled any fixtures.
Then the DHS spokesperson, Waterpolo coach and whatever he can get on his e-mail signature poached 2 waterpolo players from Glenwood and again Glenwood didn’t cancel any fixtures.
Then Gr7 boy that the DHS foundation funded decides not to join DHS but rather Glenwood and now you request a red card for foul play.
Mate so DHS slipped up on the Gr7 boys as I don’t think that the DHS foundation has a leg to stand on by claiming any money back from the parents
If you ask any boy from the 2 schools they want to play against each other. Think the male egos at DHS needs to come down to earth and get the DHS scrum stable as it’s wobbly
@Rainier: Sounds good!
@Skywalker: it’s pretty pathetic really, the conversion rate to 1st team is so low it’s not worth losing a 100 year rivlary for. Super stars in grade 8 can be no-one by matric, I’ve seen it numerous times. To be falling out of this is madness. If it was a poach of a grade 11 star, different story. A bit like Westville taking the Glenwood grade 11 star centre & DHS woo’ing K. O’Neill the Glenwood prop. Did Glenwood stop fixtures with Westville & DHS, no. Just pathetic…
@Bush: And no schools in KZN can actually call themselves RUGBY schools. They live in a fools paradise.
The IOL news report makes clear mention of how the Headmasters agreement has been breached, that the schools discussed this in 2019 and DHS believed it was clear that Glenwood would back off, and also the only mention I have seen of contracts being signed with the parents and the DHS Foundation…
Seems clear cut? Not sure what the debate is from Glenwood. Would be interesting to know the details.
@Hulk: Hypocrite to the fingertips is that guy you mention @Hulk. The only losers in this lot are the DHS and Glenwood kids, most of whom are actually mates with one another, unless that practice has been stopped by the DHS leadership as well.
@Rainier: The SGB includes parents who are elected members by parents to represent them. The chairman in the formal communication is also a parent.
The SGB also includes RCL representatives so student are also included.
I’m not saying the entire parent or student body was canvassed before a decision was made but then again the greater parent/student body and even some of us Old Boys aren’t privy to all the information and details of the various meetings between the schools so our default position might be for sport fixtures to have gone on.
If the SGB chairman(who is also a parent) is making the announcement then you assume the SGB as a more diverse body than just the school administrators is also privy to all the details us in the greater public don’t have and they are in support of this decision.
@De-flea the Dog: Welcome back my little fat friend!!!
our own 4th team lock at the green machine
how is the website design business going in the UK?
The Nestor Pierides Memorial gala is another sport fixture where DHS and GW have indirectly faced off against each other.( This time with DHS gaining the upper hand.)
1 Westville 302
2 St Benedicts 269
3 Grey College 264
4 St Davids 216
5 Affies 188
6 Clifton 158
7 DHS 130
8 Hilton 122
9 Kearsney 118
10 Glenwood 107
11 MC 88
12 Northwood 65
@ForeverHorseFly: So the SGB canvassed the parents and then decided, after the parents showed their support for cancelling the fixture, to cancel all sport fixtures?
I have a bridge in Brooklyn for sale…
@Beet: I also picked up on that. I could be wrong but I think the DHS communication coming through the chairman of the school governing body is trying to convey the message that it’s not one school administrator vs another but a decision taken with the input/backing of all DHS stakeholders.
Had the headmaster made the announcement, people might think it’s a unilateral decision but if it’s coming from the SGB, then the parents are also aware of the situation and support the decision.
@Beet: yep Andri Barnes certainly is the boss there, good in her. She knows Pinhead well having worked with him for 20 years. My personal opinion of Pinhead isn’t good, him. Barnes the opposite. So forgive for bias (Roger & GT) but I will always back Barnes in these cases. I can trust her & she is a head of integrity.
@De-flea the Dog: One of the things that struck me about the media interactions is that there is no mistaking who the commander-in-chief is at Glenwood – the headmistress Dr Andri Barnes. And it would be interesting to find out what the thinking behind the DHS strategy was to try and keep their head Tony Pinheiro out of it. They have SLM as the spokesman and Paul Spooner signing off their key letter of intent. I don’t think this was by chance.
@Tang: Hi Tang. I think the agreement relies on the integrity of the schools to uphold it. There is no formal sanction. The best that a school on the losing end can do other than make it into a mainstream media news item or to bring attention to it at the next annual boys schools headmasters’ meeting.
Proving the facts is difficult so even when a school is convinced it’s right, other than being able to show that their former student is at the other high school, the finer details of how he got there can be a grey area. Even in this DHS vs Glenwood case above, the two camps stories suggest that someone is being untruthful or not disclosing the full truth on the matter. Last year in the Western Cape incident, I saw a social media message designed to encourage support for one school which mixed in fact with fiction kind of like fake news that can be very effective in swaying opinion if it reaches the right number of people first. In the KZN – Border issue from the start of 2019, it proved to be a case of people having an idea of what must have transpired but not being in possession of concrete evidence to support that so as a result it could only be termed as as allegations. This happens in many cases.
Cancelling a fixture seems to be as straightforward as communicating this intention to the opposition school in most parts of the country including KZN. I can recall incidents in other parts where schools have just pulled the plug days before a match because it seemed like they wanted to avoid getting a klap. Sometimes there is more to it like Affies cited examines and “huursoldate” for bailing on Menlo and Garsies respectively 1. a few years ago. A couple of exceptions: Klofies were not so lucky when they tried to avoid playing a Virsekerbeker match and ended up leaving the competition for a year. 2.I think in the Western Province, the WPRU keeps a control over fixtures and I could be mistaken but a decision not to honour a match has to be approved by them otherwise there could be kak.
To basically anwer the last of your questions: yes, there are no rules at the end of the day. Parents decide which schools their kids go to. The problems crop up when those decisions are a consequence of poaching or perceived poaching. Fixtures get cancelled when the offended schools feel frustrated and are of the opinion that they are dealing with disrespectful/untrustworthy/unreasonable/arrogant officials from the other school and so can’t see opportunity to resolve matters amicably or see the potential for a change in attitude happening around a boardroom table. The cancellation normally brings about unwanted attention and a change in approach one way or the other.
@De-flea the Dog: Yes Selborne shouldn’t be too bad this year. But difficult games at the Grey PE fest and at Kearsney will really test the team.
Glad to see the Grey PE festival doing well this year. There are some huge matches on the cards this year.
@De-flea the Dog: Glenwood played Selborne at the Kearsney Easter Fest last year as well but got stopped early owing to weather conditions. That is a lekker fixture.
@Palma: Yep, I remember it Bossr-gate, weird scenario that one. I believe Glenwood will play Selborne at Kearnsey Fest which is great. I believe Selborne are expecting a very good team this year. Glenwood won’t be too shabby with the spine of last year back..
It seems that DHS believe that Glenwood will give in. Either way one can’t see this saga lasting very long. Sanity will prevail eventually.
Selborne and Glenwood also had a little soap opera a few years ago but now there are no hard feelings and the two schools are more than happy to play each other. Hell, Glenwood have been invited to Selborne’s waterpolo tournament this coming weekend.
Surely the importance of the rivalry between DHS and Glenwood will realised rather quickly and this whole debacle will be put to bed.
@Vleis: Hi Vleis, hopefully we can have that beer this year.
@Gungets Tuft: You described it perfectly. I am going to copy it to use at work and around the braai! ?
@De-flea the Dog: Agree, it’s like House and Hilton cancelling fixtures or cancelling return games. It has happened and then sanity prevails. You would think the quality of teaching crew that DHS has, they would put this problem behind them or just take it on the chin. Hope the DHSOB’s step in!!!!!
@De-flea the Dog: On the money!!!
@De-flea the Dog: I don’t have all the facts, but based solely on what I’ve read on this thread, I agree with you that DHS have been too hasty to cancel this fixture.
@star:
It was a bit of confirmation bias to start with, as I was certain that he would not be able to resist commenting on this topic…so when I saw “De-flea the Dog” pop up and comment in mammoth detail re teacher movements in true Grassy style, I was 99% sure. Then, the comments re the economy and and Westville’s swimming (with a dig at KES) sealed the deal! 
@beet: La Marque a passionate Glenwood Old Boy and ex College and Glenwood coach is the one bleating. He was the chief recruitment practitioner at Glenwood so knows all the tricks of the trade and the loopholes. No individual is bigger than the history between the schools, so the pettiness needs to be put aside. The first game between the two schools was played in 1913 but officially it started in 1922. Since then 139 games have been played, DHS winning 69, Glenwood 59 & 11 draws. Largest loss (0-38) in 1948 & largest win (55-12) in 2018. Teachers need to put their egos aside and continue this traditional fixture..
@Gungets Tuft: Yes, definitely a compliment. You are/were probably the most level headed poster on this forum. Funnily enough, I tried to meet up with Rainier last March when his primary school team was playing in a festival at Oakdale. I was attending a wedding in Stilbaai, so had the day free (while the gooses got ready, etc). Unfortunately, I had to leave Oakdale just before his team finished playing to get back to attend said wedding, so did not get to meet him and share a beer.
@Roger: I’ve heard great things about the Gold Coast, as I have quite a few mates (some ex-Saffas, but mostly ex-Zimbos) who live there. I’ll be visiting the GC in late June this year for the first time, prior to attending my daughter’s netball tournament in NZ. Maybe we could hook up for a beer?
Sounds like your son has it all worked out!
Yes, Wits is his team.
@beet – What are the protcols established by the State Boys schools with regards to admissions, transfers and teacher recruitment?
When schools are fighting about acquisitions and one school believes it is within the rules, why is there even an argument? Do DHS and Glenwood both abide by the protocols established by ths State Boys Schools? If so, who is the arbitrator and how can they resolve the apparent differences?
How can DHS take a unlilateral decision to cancel the fixture? Surely if there is a protocol, there must be a remedy when one school does not abide by the protocol.
Does the battle between the two schools ilustrate and highlight the fact there are no real rules and regulations about recruitment?
So late to the party and yes my blood is green but I may or may not have been at some of the aforementioned meetings and in my view, the quotes in the article in the newspaper could lead to a long nose if the quoted individual was pinnochio. Sad to see it all come to this and the story behind this is a lot deeper and messier than anyone would hope it to be!
@Vleis: When did you know? When he started talking about the nefarious Westville swimming program and the economy in general I was sold. Good to have the old bullet Gungets back for a bit of banter
10 years ago all the talk was about what GW was doing, 5 years ago it was Hilton and now it’s DHS. Who gives a crap who’s sporting fixture is better to lure kids to their school. KZN are a bunch of toss heads, we should all get along like best buddies. Like me and Spear. We could have such Lekker fixtures right here on our own doorstep. Now we have to travel 2000 km’s to watch a lekker game of SBR. Parents and kids need to wake the hell up. Good luck KZN Schools ??????????
@Djou: It’s called blind loyalty. As soon as you start with the premise that your chosen institution can not be wrong, at all and ever, that leads to the assumption that criticism is jealousy. Once you’re there then even when you’re confronted with irrefutable proof that the person you support is wrong/lying/crooked you support their tactics and motives, even if the result is immoral.
I’m not immune but I’d like to think I’m aware when I’m being blind to faults due to the school colours. I said it many years ago here on this forum – there is no worse place from which to fall than moral high ground.
Fortunately my son has finished school, by the skin of his teeth, and I’m pretty immune to supporting College purely vicariously, but I always read comments here from that lens.
@Gungets Tuft: Exactly. When you attempt to analyse cold and objective, the replies are besmetted with bias.
If this is an indication of how the principals/headmasters reason, you will need an arbitrary person from … I don’t know where to resolve the matter.
And that ladies and gentlemen a statement from a poached educator from Glenwood now at DHS.
You had enough warnings DHS, scrum not stable, yellow card
https://www.google.com/search?q=yellow+card+in+rugby&rlz=1CDGOYI_enZA727ZA728&hl=en-GB&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiL99Pv2MHnAhXRAmMBHRgkDCMQ_AUoAXoECBAQAQ&biw=414&bih=620#imgrc=eKGaTtkfUGpqmM
I read a message supposedly posted by a very prominent DHSOB in which it states
“After a meeting with both schools where Glenwood agreed to not pursue these boys any more…”
This meeting and decision is emphasized in the newspaper article.
https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/the-independent-on-saturday/20200208/281496458280681
However the Glenwood headmaster denies it saying they have always held the line there is no policy for primary school recruitment – as per the newspaper article.
Two totally different stances resulting in a stalemate.
Perhaps what should happen is both headmasters and the two main role players from each school should agree to be polygraph tested on several key questions and the results made available to the public. :-)
@The Falcon: Haha that is true. Maritzburg College were also heavy after them. Cancel that too?
@Grizzly: We are aware that both schools recruit etc. The difference is DHS took boys in the last 3 months – Glenwood was not happy but if the boys really didn’t want to be there then so be it. Did Glenwood cancel the fixture? NO. Some of DHS’ boys then moves to Glenwood after they approached Glenwood (I believe this was proved in that meeting between the schools) and now DHS cancels the fixture? How’s this for ridiculous – DHS attempted to “poach” another boy after they cancelled the fixture. That’s Bazaar!
I’m sure more info will come out from both schools but right now this looks like 1 school with sour grapes.
@Vleis: Aus is …… well, Aus!. Awesome country, clean, safe, etc etc yada yada yada – but it ain’t Africa – if you know what I mean? Son and daughter have settled well but it took a while! Let no man tell you emigration is easy – deep down we know we have made the right call but man alive, you miss home and friends. Been surrounded by Saffers makes it easier but then again you need to choose which Saffers to hang around with – I steer well clear of the bitchers and moaners! Son not playing rugby – beach and girls (now he’s at a coed school) too much of a distraction!! We are near Gold Coast. Which VC cup team is your boy playing for? I hope Witsies!?
Apparently those same two boys had a uniform fitting at Kearsney at the end of 2019, were assigned dorms and were expected to start there but ended up choosing Glenwood. Actually a very sad situation. Are DHS now going to cancel the Kearsney fixture as well??
@Hulk: Both schools recruit,they both open about it.Becauce im beter at my job,im more successful than you,you now suddenly turn around and call me a poacher.Why?Becauce you can,you and your “Govermentele bodycorporation of SA pty ltd”.I think thats like stated,hypocritical and lame.
Just saw the article in the Independent – that DHS spokesperson is such a hypocrite. He took 2 boys from Glenwood end of last year for waterpolo and now he is crying? Wtf? One gets the feeling that DHS wants to be the only school that is allowed to accept boys from competitors? I mean really? Stop hiding behind glass walls in a stone war!
https://www.pressreader.com/south-africa/the-independent-on-saturday/20200208/281496458280681
@Buddy: very well said Buddy – The boys wants to play!
What’s mind boggling is that what educational value would this decision from the DHS foundation be to the boys of DHS. You basically show them that it’s ok to quit, don’t stand up and fight for your place on earth. You walk away, cancel a fixture and cry because you played a quick pick ticket and didn’t win the lotto.
Come on Mr P, DHS or DHS foundation, the boys from both schools wants to play against each other and keep the traditional fixture alive ⚠️
@ForeverHorseFly: DHS has sponsored quite a few boys in the past. Across different schools if you read the thread. But how many of those kids ended up at DHS? How many finished at DHS? I’ve heard of a top U13 rugby boy, who played Craven week also paid for in primary school, that left the high school back to the townships to avoid this practice. If that’s true, and the source is closely related, then what is going on?
But because these boys in question enrolled at Glenwood now DHS wants to make scene because they are trying to compete with the local rival that is the Green Machine. Clearly this is a dog show.
Why do the boys want to go to Glenwood? Why not DHS? Recruiters obviously play a role in this. But if DHS has the so-called advantage in paying for these boys, why do they not want to go there?
Something is fishy.
@Vleis: Not sure I’m back, I’m not sure that I can handle this much deja vu. Actors have changed somewhat, not all, but sentiments mostly the same. I wouldn’t even have commented if the rather low-blow password Beet gave me 8 years ago hadn’t stuck, horribly, in my mind. But buy a donkey, I’ll take it as a compliment. Even had a call from Rainier as a result, even though we’ve stayed in touch and he’s even graced me and Mrs Gungets at our pozzie for supper.
@Gungets Tuft: Hey Gungets. Welcome back! I think that the board misses your impartial input.
@Roger: All good here mate. How are things in Oz? Which city are you in? Your lightie must be in high school by now, so is he playing any rugger over there? Time flies – my son finished school three years ago already!
He’s playing VC now.
PS KES were never good enough to hammer Greenside, but rather, you scraped narrow controversial wins over us!
PPS Yes, a great shame about Small.
This thread is a case study in bias and bias confirmation. It’s a beautiful thing not having a dog in the fight.
DHS mentions a breakdown in relationship and trust in their letter. Glenwood mentions NOTHING. Both are equally vague in what the real issues are. Lots of speculation and defensive comments from mostly Glenwood bloggers. So, what are the real issues? Obviously DHS feels significantly agrieved, as it is a significant action to break a long standing relationship. So, what are the real issues – no speculation?
@Roger: The truth hurts, but that’s the only economics I’m going to talk about now.
@De-flea the Dog: ok Grasshopper – that didn’t take long
@Roger: Doubt any of the schools are going to get much better at anything with the economy about to collapse, but good luck to them all making ends meet…
The DHS sponsor was a victim of his own recruiting success with regards to these kids in question. If we assume this sponsorship has been going on for years and the kids going on to attend DHS successfully under the radar, then the only difference this year is that these kids led Glewood Prep to a dominant unbeaten season and went on to be key in KZN U13 winning craven week.
This naturally led to more interest in these kids, more voices in the kids and their parents ears which led us to where we are now. The talent was great, the vultures circled.
Personally, I am disappointed DHS won’t be playing Glenwood and hope it doesn’t take five years like Glenwood/Hilton before we face each other again.
@De-flea the Dog: well, KES are in the midst of a 12 month multi million rand aquatics center upgrade / rebuild so I’m sure those results will improve in time
@Roger: Alan Burt Gala last week results;
Westville – 295
St David’s – 261
Pretoria Boys – 195
Glenwood – 165
St Stithians – 151
Kearsney – 149
DHS -147
College – 124
KES – 111
Parktown – 45
St David’s upping their game…
@Roger: DPHS is more a feeder to Kearsney, Hilton, Clifton and Michaelhouse these days. Also, Westville. Westville goes sniffing about to find every decent swimmer they can to maintain their national ‘best swimming’ school tag. Honestly, who would really want to go to DHS, have you seen Musgrave these days, it’s a dump. Although Glenwood isn’t much better. The Glenwood BE Gibson’s is great though..
@Roger: When Glenwood Prep started, they requested to use the Glenwood name as it was and still is a strong brand. It played a big role in where the school is today. And yes, they are know as the baby grasshoppers. Not the baby horseflies ?
@Roger: Well probably not officially, but it does say ‘Home of the Baby Grasshoppers’. It’s basically about 300m away though, you couldn’t get much closer. It’s improved vastly since the name change
@De-flea the Dog: but it’s not Glenwood’s de facto Prep school – like KEPS and KES or DHS Prep and DHS?
@chopper: the funny/sad thing is that there are quite a few Glenwood Old Boys working at DHS and supporting this poor decision that is cancelling fixtures. More so, a lot of them have tried to go back to Glenwood ?
@De-flea the Dog: Funny that…
@Roger: used to be called Park View and prior to that Bulwer Park Government School. Founded in 1910, same year as Glenwood. It’s produced some of Glenwood’s best sportsman over the years, Leyton and Barrett Pardey to name two
@Vleis: how you doing Vleis? Still smarting from the hammering KES gave to Greenside in ’83
I was very sad to read of the death of James Small – didn’t you play with him at Greenside? I played a fair amount of golf with him at the Wanderers a loooong time ago.
Sorry – this post is off topic
@Hulk I believe the two common denominators at DHS are actually a Glenwood Old Boy and a New Forest Old Boy.
Is Glenwood Prep associated with Glenwood? I remember reading somewhere that the two schools had no association and Glenwood Prep used to be called something else? Might be wrong.
@Vleis: yup – he’s back
I’ve always been here Vleisie – just waaaaaay out of touch now – different time zone, different everything but good to know some things still stay the same 
@beet: I know a very old teacher, who I think you talking about, he loved the DHS rivalry. I mean it was lobsided for decades. DHS’s little brother has caught up and surpassed them, it must be irritating. They just need to catch up again. However, they fighting demographics that side, where rugby isn’t the number 1 sport. Cricket, Basketball and hockey trump it. It takes time to build back up after a decade of decline
@Human Piranha: I agree with many of your points but on the point of the Foundation…I agree you cant buy a child, but this is not a generic foundation set up to offer educational opportunities or bursaries in general, like an NPO or a Foundation set up by a business. This is the DHS Foundation, and other schools have the same (Maritzburg College, Westville etc)…and they are set up specifically by that school and their Old Boys etc. to give young boys an opportunity to attend their school in particular.
But i do question them already sponsoring children so far down in the pipeline.
Yesterday DHS indicated that they would issue a report that contained more information on the matter.
If that report is made available it might add perspective to why they arrived at their decision and perhaps provide a better opportunity for Glenwood address those specifics.
I don’t think too many would choose the suspension of sporting relationships. For example I was at Glenwood watching the u14 and u15 matches a few years back. They were good passionate matches as DHS were into their rugby revival mode then and those two age-groups formed the core of what turned out to be a useful 1st XV a few years later. While alongside the field that day, a Glenwood master who had taught there for quite some time came up to me and said how much he was enjoying the match-ups because DHS had a bit of oomph about them and this vibe carried over to their coaches and supporters, so much so that it reminded him of the old times when DHS were strong. There wasn’t a feeling of threat that DHS was picking up the pace, it was a welcomed comment of this is good for us. It was the words of a genuine educator and not someone who’s livelihood was measured in terms of winning or losing.
The ban is now effective. What’s done is done. It’s not necessarily a bad thing IF it is for just one season and leads to a better and very permanent understanding between the two schools.
Last year a school did not want to play DHS at a festival because of a recruitment incident. Obviously the other school wasn’t from KZN. Did it change the way DHS conducts their recruitment business? Probably not! Did it alter their consideration for approaching players from that other school? Maybe. Maybe would an improvement on NO as far as the other school is concerned.
@De-flea the Dog: spot one Mate !!!
@De-flea the Dog: You ignoring me Al?
All we need is Roger and Mr T and we will have the trifecta.
@Hulk: I believe the Glenwood Prep Head is a DHS Old Boy so ties are strong with DHS. Kershaw was a DHS Old Boy…..commom threads coming through ;-)
This topic has raised some interesting discussions. The origin of this issue is DHS Foundation paying for primary school kids. And I believe there are many more in this “programme”. That should not be allowed or do so at the risk of a kid not arriving at your school.
An interesting point was made yesterday – those boys in question actually threatened to leave their primary school last year as a result of this unduly pressure, demands and threats. Seriously – a 12/13 year old boy wishing to go back to the Township or another local school just to avoid being forced to a particular high school…
It would be interesting to know what the primary school’s stance is on this.
There is a common denominator amongst all of this, and it goes back a couple of years, and involves mainly rugby and water polo. Two individuals who are currently at DHS, but who were at Glenwood dishing out the same stuff a couple of years ago, now find themselves “the victim!” Is this not a case of the pot calling the kettle black?
@Human Piranha: spot on. The Glenwood female Head Dr Andri Barnes has her faults but one isn’t ego. I was taught by Pinheiro in the 90’s at Glenwood, he certainly has a massive ego. Pinheiro was the guy who drove Glenwood’s previous recruitment drive bringing in La Marque & Shawn Van Rensburg. All three at DHS now. The stubbornness is certainly on the DHS side as why would Glenwood not want to play DHS. Pinheiro is under pressure re DHS’s sporting results, losing a great coach. In my day the Logie’s, great surfers, left Glenwood for DHS as they were promised school colours there when Glenwood didn’t offer colours for the sport. Movement between the schools has been happening for decades and this happened at the earliest stage, in the first week of school. My best mate did it, started at Grosvenor on the Bluff, hated it and came to Glenwood instead.
Another point, what ambitious sportsman would choose DHS’s fixtures over Glenwood’s. You want to test yourself vs the best. DHS have and no disrespect to them, Parktown, Clifton, St Charles etc. Glenwood have Monnas, Grey Bloem, Drostdy, Paul Roos, Selborne, St Andrews etc, I know where I would want to be.
My 5cents worth on this issue.
Firstly I think @Djou has provided the most reasonable commentary/arguments/solution on this problem. Listen to that man( even if it is only for this time ?)
Secondly, when money is involved, people can be expected to behave strangely and throw reason, logic and often their integrity out the window.
Thirdly, DHS, that was one seriously dumb scheme ( if you are going to do this at least put the children in your own primary school) and that it came from your foundation is poor form. Foundations donate, when one donates and expects something in return that is called buying. You can’t buy a primary school child. Shame on you!
And Glenwood, you knew DHS were paying for these children yet you jumped at the opportunity for a freebie. Your actions lack class.
One can understand why these children went to Glenwood high after being in the primary school, in the Western Cape it would be like a child who spends two years on a bursary at Klein Gim, being totally into the traditions and inter school matches ect being told to go the Boishaai High school because they paid the bursary.
I think both parties are at fault. Sit down, sort it out like adults, this behavior is not in the interests of any of the children that attend those 2 schools.
@Skywalker: Good point, there must have been contracts signed. Why should Glenwood be dragged into it if these parents signed the contracts then moved their kids. It’s the parents responsibility. All these schools are doing this, mostly behind closed doors. What’s stopping a wealthy Old Boy depositing the fees into parents accounts? DHS Old Boy Stephen Saad is worth a billion US Dollars, paying for a few kids is pocket change to him. DHS can’t be pleading poverty. Yes Glenwood had Ivan Clark, but not in the same league & he’s contributed enough. All schools have successful OB’s contributing. Since Adri Barnes has been head she has cleaned up the schools image, being transparent on bursaries and slowly stopped post grade 9 recruitment.
Does anyone know if the parents of these boys signed some sort of a contract? I would think it would have taken place? ie this was not charity. The DHS Foundation sponsored these children to attend a good school (and earn KZN u13 rugby selection in the process) for 2 years. It would be pretty reasonable to expect that the offer would include an agreement that they would then attend DHS of course, or if not, would need to pay back the money at least. It happens in business with internships and graduate programmes all the time. Just wondering if anyone knows if there was any such contract at all? Have not read any mention of anything which seems odd and very risky then from DHS.
@Hulk: I said DHS should hold the people who came up with this scheme accountable. Ideally they should repay the money to DHS.
Yes, I will and in fact did move my kids due to unhappiness at primary school.
@Buddy: Hi Buddy.
You are misunderstanding what I am trying to say.
But first, I normally try to refrain from using examples from elsewhere to justify my actions. It simply doesn’t work.
Second, especially when one compares apples with pears. What has happened here differs completely from the way Garsies, Grey, Paarl Gim, Boishaai, Waterkloof, Affies, Menlopark etc etc recruit. They have their own ways. But these schools don’t pay school fees of primary schools, for one.
Thirdly, I’ve put forward a way where both schools could have been satisfied – if they did it this way.
However, DHS would still have lost the money, but they would not be able to point fingers at Glenwood – and should then rather have held their own accountable for what I deem a stupid scheme.
So, in the end it boils down to having systems in place to deal with these type of situations, and for schools to think hard when they come up with recruitment systems – as it can backfire easily when stupid in nature.
@Djou: DHS are exploiting kids and parents here. It’s like banks giving loans to people with no credit – then when the people can’t pay the banks starts repossessing. That is unethical and shows no integrity. The kids CANNOT be owned.
DHS has a feeder school (DPHS) – why don’t they sponsor boys there?
Lastly, if your kid was unhappy to be at a certain school – would you leave them in that school?
@De-flea the Dog: Grassy! Welcome back! It took a dirty dog fight between your Alma Mater and its bitter rivals to drag you out of hiding, but good to see you on the board again mate.
How is the mud-island treating you?
Response from a parent on Facebook. Well done mate !
Educated adults making decisions who are incapable being able to negotiate, compromise and settle differences. These self same adults, teachers, parents on the decision making committees put themselves forward as the educators, leaders and the examples for the young children to follow. They should not be surprised when the children do not look up to them and they are laughed off as boomers, dinosaurs and other derogatory titles. Those that make these type of decisions should remember they are the adults and they are not still at school involved in a playground rumble. They will also be the ones complaining about lack of leadership in government, SOE’s but unable to negotiate some school sport resolution. They should leave it up to the students to resolve the issue. They cannot fail as poorly as the adults involved from both these schools.
@Grizzly: If you look at the Social media regarding this matter and the response from the boys, old boys and parents none of them wants this fixture to be cancelled. A pity that grownups act like this!!!
100% on point ??
@BiasedDHSDad: Hey Bud, I see they didn’t take in your phone for the week while at school or did you hand in a cheap old Nokia just to get the masters of your back
Old BE trick ?
@Djou: Exactly the same when Garsies went to the Boland schools and recruited players. The Boland High schools developed those players and invested in them but Garsies didn’t consult those schools when they where recruited for U16 like you suggested….
Yeah your argument will be that Garsies gave them an opportunity. Then Glenwood gave the unhappy DHS boys an opportunity to be in a stable environment.
My 5 cent
Why is the governing body involved in decisions like canceling of fixtures?Most of them will be gone in a year or two.Isnt a GB something that meets once a month to discuss whatever….
Funny one letter is signed by the chairman of the GB and the other one by the headmaster….I’ll see the day when the GB of Garsies tells Leon Bandtjies they decided to cancell fixtures,in my dreams maybe….Yes i know the headmaster is also on the GB,but man up and say its my decision.
As with all the previous cases,ill bet if there was a referendum for DHS parents to decide if they want to cancell the outcome wil be 99% ‘NO’!!
@Gungets Tuft: It is just stupid thinking. The person who came up with this scheme should be held accountable. Those monies could have been used elsewhere at the school.
@Hulk: You misunderstand and mix different components. Let’s break it up. First, if school A knows that a rival school B paid some boys’ school fees, then school A should say no to the boys if approached, just out of respect for school B – and so school A gains integrity. School A should inform school B of the approach. School B can then talk to the boys.
Now comes part 2: Should the boys after talks with school B still want to leave, then they should. School B might lose the money as it was stupid to fund them at primary school.
Part 3: School A can get a sponsor to refund school B and gain even more respect.
@Djou: If Integrity is judged by granting a kid the opportunity to go to the school of his choice, a decision which was clearly communicated to both schools involved – then we are perhaps missing the boat.
The boys, along with their friends who aren’t affected by these primary school bursaries, showed great interest in the Green Machine. I’ve seen this first hand. And that was not knowing the backgrounds of bursaries.
Do you force a kid in an unhappy environment for the sake of your investment? Questionable Indeed!
@BiasedDHSDad: Let’s put it this way – those primary school boys cannot be owned because of a bursary. They are not slaves or some sort of commodity. It infuriates many to know how those boys have been smothered with the threats of bursaries etc.
Yes there are financial losses incurred by DHS but that is a risk that they took. Those boys did not choose Glenwood because they got bigger offers (I doubt it as I have heard the offers DHS makes) – they went there because they love the culture and atmosphere.
As for the rest – I’ve spent time with many of these recruiters, from both schools, and have heard the “tricks of the trade”. DHS should stop playing the victim card as they play the game far too well.
Man Up and continue the tradition that is the DHS Horseflies vs the Green Machine!
@Djou: DHS have been doing it forever. They used to sponsor kids at DPHS which is the natural feeder to DHS. My son had 2 in his Grade 7 class of 2010. They worked because the kids moved up with most of their mates. With DPHS probably close to R4000 a month it might be beyond the sponsors, GW Prep probably less than 1/2 that. But, and a huge factor in my mind, especially with kids from out of the province, they’re going to want to go to high school with kids who have been their mates for 7 years. Very few kids can handle such a huge change at 13 – trust me, my lightie battled at College and he went with 3 mates from DPHS.
In short, I can see why the kids would make the decision, and I’m a little amused at the Pinhiero outrage since he was a prime mover at Glenwood – hoisted by his own petard.
A few points to ponder:
Why is a high school so stupid to pay the school fees of kids in a primary school?
Does Glenwood have any integrity – meaning that if you know that a rival paid some kids’ primary school fees, you should respectfully refuse these kids at your school if you have integrity – you can only accept them if they pay back the school fees.
And on the issue of DHS poaching Glenwood staff – can it really be called poaching staff if people apply for a job and then get it.
The word poaching is used very loosely to deliberately ignite other’s emotions. These people are not interested in sound reasoning, just in creating bad blood.
If I were Glenwood I would ask the parents to refund DHS or find a sponsor on their behalf.
And DHS hopefully learned a lesson from their stupidity – you can’t rely on bursaries at primary school to guarantee enrollment at your school. It’s like paying a 13 year old boy to one day marry your daughter, not knowing whether he will fall in love with someone else and then be forced to cheat on your daughter.
Are these schools or professional sports teams ? Surely there is no educational value to the boys of both schools being denied the opportunity to compete against each other ? Or am I missing something ? Surely decisions being made by schools should purely be about the scholars and education …. can’t see how this benefits this current crop of kids from both schools ?
One fewer fixture will help Glenwood prepare for Grey PE and KERF, got a big dog in St Andrews at Grey PE
Money money money, give them more money!
@BiasedDHSDad: The only reason to move to DHS for polo would be to join Steve La Marque, nothing else…
@Hulk: I have different information regarding the waterpolo boys. The request to move (as told to me) was from the boys / parents (in one case it had to do with subjects being offered) and DHS told Glenwood there had been a request and agreed to give Glenwood an opportunity to sort out the issue.
I am glad you reminded me about the near cancellation last year … I know for a fact that was partially over the issue regarding the two boys who were sponsored by the Foundation. After discussions, Glenwood and DHS came to an agreement that Glenwood would not approach the boys with offers. Is seems that agreement was broken by Glenwood.
@Hulk: {drops in from the ether, alerted by one Greenblooded}, and top of the year to you.
Question – waterpolo, is SLM still coaching at DHS. If he has then have no fear, he’ll look for decent polo players and take them to DHS if he can. Nothing new there. He’s a good coach but it’s still not like a move to Bishops, which I could fully understand. There’s nothing in polo, no money as a player after school, can’t see what they’re chasing.
Me, I’ll start paying attention once we can play derbies in KZN against traditional rivals without having to look for filler games for teams below 5ths and C teams. Till then these schools are missing the point of school sport.
Pinheiro was all cool when DHS poached 12 teachers from Glenwood in the past 3 years;
Michael Baker – Director of Hockey
Attila Dudas (Glenwood OB) – 2ne team rugby coach, Head of Discipline
Tanner Bottomley – Glenwood Elite Academy & u16A rugby coach
Jason Flanagan – u14A rugby coach
Steve La Marque (Glenwood OB) – Director of Aquatics, Marketing & Recruitment
Dylan Cronje (Glenwood OB) – Waterpolo coach
Shawn Van Rensburg – Head of Recruitment & U14A rugby
Dean Sibson (Glenwood OB) – u16A rugby
Nathan Pillay – Director of Sport
J Chetty – Director of Cricket
Mr Skevington – English Teacher & Head of Cross Country
John Stengel – Head of Music & English Teacher….
Plus more, waterpolo kids etc. They recruit at Glenwood’s feeder school Glenwood Prep. Also, Glenwood’s aggressive recruitment started with Kershaw, Pinheiro, La Marque & Van Rensburg…..guess where 3 of them are now, at DHS……leopards don’t change their spots. Pinheiro has a huge ego!! Dr Andri Barnes has done a great job cleaning up Glenwood’s reputation, stopping recruitment post grade 8 and if you look at scholarships & bursaries they are transparent plus mostly given to KZN boys, I think one this year was out of province. DHS need to evaluate themselves before pointing fingers. They have massive financial clout coming from Steven Saad. Glenwood’s has very little. Anyway, it’s more a loss to DHS as Glenwood already test themselves vs the best. DHS can go back to playing George Campbell or other schools who only put out 9 or 10 teams on the weekend…
Glenwood did not poach them, just accepted their applications. Surely the foundation is happy for the opportunity they have provided these boys???
@Rainier: That is the point. The big issue is that at least three of the boys had actually started at DHS – put on the uniforms, walked through the gates and started the school year – and there is now talk that Glenwood is still targeting other boys who started at DHS this year. Yes they are all Grade 7 last year and two of the other boys who moved could fall into the category that they changed their mind before starting at the school, but I still feel even in their case the ethics are dubious: the DHS Foundation paid for them to attend a good rugby-playing primary school for two years, which enabled them to escape their circumstances and play for the KZN U13 team. DHS has given them a massive opportunity to improve their lives and done the hard work only for Glenwood to allegedly poach them. Is that ethical?
@Rainier: There was quite a few boys in grade 7 who was paid for by DHS. Most indicated they want to go to Glenwood. It was not a surprise.
@BiasedDHSDad: I appreciate your passion and support for your School. But unfortunately there are few false statements in your point.
The waterpolo boys were poached, receives some form of financial relief and were not released originally. The waterpolo fraternity in KZN is a small community – no room to hide.
I believe that even this week a boy, different sporting code, has been approached by DHS. If true, one cannot wonder about the arrogance given the recent decision.
What I don’t understand is this – there has been talks/rumors last year already that DHS were looking to pull the fixture. So this has been pre-empted. Why? Did they assume the boys were going to go to Glenwood? Or are we just looking for excuses to not play anymore? If memory serves me right, DHS even requested for the FNB Clash to not be televised last year. Why?
A lot of suspicious decisions.
But more importantly, it’s great to see that Hilton, Northwood and Michaelhouse are on the fixture list again. Looking forward to see some quality KZN school boy rugby.
@BiasedDHSDad: You cannot have players poached that has not started at your school yet. Were all 6 in Gr 7 last year?
As far as I am concerned DHS has made the right call. The issue is not just two boys but a total of six who have, in my opinion, been poached this year (so far). At some point you have to say enough. Some of the boys had already started their school year and there is evidence they are still approaching boys at DHS so I think the “Grade 8s are fair game” argument is dead in the water. It will be interesting to see what comes out of the meeting between Westville and Glenwood (is it about the same issue?). Not a good look for Glenwood if Westville follow the Hilton and DHS option to stop playing Glenwood. From what I understand, the two waterpolo boys now at DHS requested to move in August last year and were only accepted after Glenwood released them. I have been told categorically that there are no subsidies / scholarships / bursaries involved and DHS refused to accept the boys until Glenwood agreed to the moves – so it seems to be a different scenario.
@Buddy: ???
@Chalkdust: Now there is a good start… I agree with you.
The DHS letter has been added to the blog above.
@Chalkdust: you have just hit the nail on the head. Waiting patiently for the parents to come out with the truth of what’s really going on at DHS.
Scrum reset, DHS not stable, last warning ⚠️
So short sighted and somewhat hypocritical too.
Glenwood is, with the possible exception of Framesby, probably the highest ranked school DHS would play.
Whereas Glenwood has matches against Selborne, Monnas, GCB and Paul Roos.
Cutting off your nose to spite your face comes to mind…
Do a bit more digging as to why DHS players moved to Glenwood. It’s not about intentional late talent scouting and not conforming to “rules”. The truth will come out eventually. I’d ask a few of the parents as a starting point.
In my opinion the DHS decision, if only based on the recruitment of 2 /13 players by Glenwood, is pathetic.
Without looking at the respective fixture lists my gut tells me Glenwood probably play against more illustrious opponents on an annual basis and therefor DHS is actually shooting themselves in the foot.
@beet: This is a sad day. So much for the “Berea Clash”. When DHS moved in on two Glenwood boys, waterpolo players To my knowledge, all was great for them. Now the shoe is on the other foot and they play victim. Shocking!
Its been confirmed this morning that DHS has “postponed” all fixtures against Glenwood
My 2 cents … Primary school is open for all. If there is already a verbal contract in place then the problem is not with thr third party.
@Knight: Apparently the previous Glenwood recruiter at DHS handed in his resignation last year and left DHS.
Also very interesting is that the previous Westville recruiter that joined DHS has now also handed in his resignation a month ago and left DHS.
??♂️ One get the feeling that the DHS scrum has a stability problem ??♂️
The DHS scuffle with Genwood very interesting . They say Karma works in ways as the previous Glenwood recruiter is now DHS recruiter as well as so many staff members that went over . Same old practices just a different name sometimes bites you in the ass.
That thread is a blast from the past.
I see Kloof called their recruitment “player assistance”.
Florida Primary recruited 3 EP /12 players that will start this year – I wonder what the arrangement is with regards to their Gr 8 schooling.
@Rainier: Specific to the case of the primary school kids, yes I agree. Trying to bookmark kids for high school is not going to work – irrespective of there being a representative or not. The integrity of the parents who accepted the DHS financial offer and then didn’t follow through is questionable. In hindsight DHS probably should have taken a meaningful deposit from the parents (maybe R5000 each) and repaid it in 5 installments to encourage a form of loyalty.
General to recruitment of high school sportsman and inappropriate approaches, here is my scorecard again:
http://schoolboyrugby.co.za/?p=10248
Haha I just read Rule 1
@beet: But there were no inappropriate approaches if the boys were marketed via representatives.
And was Glenwood supposed to deny the boys admission? Based on what?
I think DHS must just take their poison, grin and bear it.
Sorry all. I myself am waiting for the next step. I thought it might come in the form of a formal announcement. The meeting itself wasn’t really an ultimatum or decision reversing get together in the end. It was really just to point out the differences/mistakes made, which isn’t necessarily a bad thing because often the communication breakdowns are the things that lead to extreme measures in the end. I’m sure it was not all one way traffic either with Gwd able to point out a few issues they had with DHS.
From what I understood, the ball is still in DHS’s court. They were going to come up with options after the meeting.
Obviously emotions must have been running high at DHS. From anticipating a great u14A team for 2020, they might be left to pick up the pieces now. Plus they are out of pocket for probably 5 x maybe 2 years of primary school fees + board + significant sundries. That is a huge bill for players who have not represented the school in a single match. Even though it’s not an unusual write-off – I was made aware of a deal a few years ago where a KZN high school’s package to a good sportsman included paying for some his Varsity fees (and who knows how many instances of that now exist)- but for DHS I’m sure the school has a difficult matter of explaining to the sponsor of the boys who are now at Gwd, just what went wrong. The finger pointing is easy to do but perhaps not so comfortable is explaining why better precautions were not taken and/or identifying the internal factors which made the boys not “like” DHS.
Also interesting is that the DHS-Glenwood rugby match once again forms part of the FNB Classic clashes for 2020. From what I understand it more of an arrangement than a contract so DHS can pull out if they choose to cancel the interschools against Gwd.
Hopefully it all resolved and there is a better understanding going forward. I think everyone is aware of the parents/students free of choice but it cannot excuse the inappropriate approaches that are made to lure good sportsmen.
So Beet writes a “War and Peace” length post and then we get no further feedback.
@Bush: don’t think Boishaai will ever refuse a game… Last I checked House & GIM follow 2_3….
@Buddy: That will be lekker Buddy. Get my details from Beet❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
@Bush: Hey Bud, can’t wait for the House fixture. We definitely must meet for a beer ?
@Rainier: They busy resetting the scrum ???? DHS battling under pressure ?
@Rainier: Hellooooooo…
Any word on the outcome of the meeting?
@odie15: Lekker Odie, I take it 4 comes after that 3????????
Do you guys down under have the same old story as us in KZN? Bois High not wanting to play Gimmies because your girls are prettier than their boys????? When are KZN schools going to grow up????
@Bush: 2_3….
Another year, another school not wanting to play against the Green Machine ???????????????????
Only positive thing so far is House is playing against GW. Going to be great to watch that game. 2 3 House
Any word on the outcome of the meeting?
@h2o: yes,agree with @Buddy,spot on.
@h2o: spot on ??
@Dixon’s: do we really want them back ?
Are DHS going to send all the Boys (and Staff) that came across to them from Glenwood and other schools back to where they came from??? if not maybe just
There are a few things that need to be addressed here…. Firstly the choice of school should be a inclusive one where the child has input… If he was happy to attend and he is now unhappy, what has changed? Was the issues raised and discussed with the current school before engaging with other schools? I was in this situation a few years back for maybe different reasons than these boys…. My son was on a full scholarship and some issues started developing…. I sat down with my son and discussed his unhappiness…. I raised these with the school and gave deadlines for them resolve my issues… I also made it clear that should these not be resolved i would move my son to another school also with a possibility of scholarship… I think parents and boys are promised the world when engaged in talks about scholarships and when reality sets in these expectations are not met or vary …. The same goes for talent scouts at unions where they flash the cash and when your son starts his contract he is 1 of 5 in a position…. The parent/child should look at the school as a long term program and not the short promises as it will almost in every case leave them dissapointed. Regardles fingers will be pointed at poachers and parents but if the child is unhappy do you ignore him? Recruitment is also a aggressive process….the best salesman is not always the most honest salesman(no reference to current situation)….. What was promised vs what was expected vs what was delivered with a honest open door approach from parent and school would have avoided the issue getting to where it is….
@ForeverHorseFly: I appreciate your views and desire to see the relationship continue. As a Glenwood Old Boy I wish for the same. This derby was an integral part of being at Glenwood and DHS.
As for the boys –
everyone knew they wanted to attend Glenwood. These words came from their own mouths and was communicated to the schools. I appreciate DHS’s frustration but in the end of the day you cannot own the boys.
Here’s hoping to a continued tradition!
@Beet: hope he sorts DHS out gets them on top again!
DHS has been making decent strides with their grade 8 recruiting in recent years, putting together competitive u14 rugby sides the past two years with some of the players coming from Glenwood Prep
I do believe Glenwood Prep being arguably the strongest primary school rugby team in the country last year and alot of those players going on to be key in KZN winning the u13 craven week has alot to do with DHS seemingly losing these players to Glenwood even after they had committed to DHS. This decommitment was not an issue with the Glenwood Prep boys coming to DHS the last few years so why now and why these particular boys?
If everything was on the up and up and indeed these kids genuinely wanted to attend Glenwood instead of DHS, there would have been some communication between the schools. For DHS to threaten the nuclear option of severing ties with one of their oldest and biggest rival clearly means they believe something happened. But again I do hope all gets resolved and as an Old Boy, I get to see DHS vs Glenwood this year
@Beet: Totally agree with you but think it’s a bit of a gamble to invest in boys while still in primary school. What do a parent do if the boy doesn’t want to join a specific High School but the parents signed a contract to that effect. Eventually they will jump ship to join their friends across the road. Should this happen who’s to blame? Is it the new school’s fault or did the dice just not fall on 6 ??♂️
Ultimately…….
The happiness of the boys should be the important factor !!!
@Buddy: The word “force” is one that suggests there should be further formal investigation into whats going on.
Worth considering is the will of the student vs that of the parent. For what DHS seemingly tried to do for their kids, there should be a sense of loyalty invoked amongst the parents. They should want to honour the arrangement and they should have tried to instill this value in their kids. The happiness of the kids themselves is a different matter for important consideration.
@ForeverHorseFly: I think the outcome will depend on the DHS headmaster. It’s his call.
I don’t think the kids will move back. It was 2 polo player to DHS and apart from the 2 GP boys mentioned in the blog above, another 3 GP boys started gr8 at DHS this year and then moved to Glenwood a few days later.
At the end of the day the schools in KZN have to find a way to put differences aside and get along. Some people have to put their egos aside and remember what their primary goals in the profession are.
Perhaps it might help the state schools to have a private school like gr 8 bursary cut-off date. So they all announce their candidates and no offers after that date.
Every recruitment case is unique and can’t always be judged by a blanket rule but from my experience if there is no financial offer from a high school who is prepared to accept a sportsman from another high school, a move does not take place.
Ok so by paying for their primary school education at Glenwood Prep you force the boys and parents to join DHS ?
@beet: What do you think the outcome of this meeting will be? I doubt anyone expects these two kids to swap back with the school year already underway. What agreement would salvage the relationship between the schools at this point? I for one hope the schools come to an agreement and sports between us continues.