Wynberg Winter Festival 2017

A1 Sat.29Apr Upington 10 17 DF Malan
A2 Sat.29Apr Hugenote 15 12 Parel Vallei
A3 Sat.29Apr Durbanville 55 22 Lydenburg
A4 Sat.29Apr Bellville 12 49 SACS
A5 Sat.29Apr Bishops 14 35 KES
A6 Sat.29Apr Rondebosch 40 12 Tygerberg
A7 Sat.29Apr Wynberg 45 29 Windhoek HS
A2 Mon.01May Parel Vallei 07 22 Upington
A3 Mon.01May Wynberg 31 10 Lydenburg
A4 Mon.01May Windhoek HS 41 17 Durbanville
A5 Mon.01May Bellville 08 16 KES
A6 Mon.01May DF Malan 24 20 Swartland
A7 Mon.01May Rondebosch 32 34 Hugenote
C8 Mon.01May Tygerberg 82 00 Langa Development

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  1. avatar
    #52 Playa

    @Vleis: Dale has averaged 3 under 19s since the beginning of time.As for murmor…we both know how those come about.Last year Dale couldn’t buy a place in the Craven Week I team because they didn’t have individuals.The triplets for example are brilliant cricketers but useless on their own in rugby.Davy Coetzer was the best flyhalf in Border…the Dale flyhalf was only good with his brothers.His brothers were only good with him.Dale could have had 2 more Craven Week reps if Davy wasn’t so good.

    I say again we were 18 last year…we are 17 this year…I will go shopping in Paarl and Bloem for my 20th reunion in 2020

    6 May, 2017 at 02:18
  2. avatar
    #51 BoschBoy

    I saw earlier in the heading that it said “Streamed by SSL”, but now that’s been removed. So any confirmation about whether or not it’s been streamed? Presumably not… :(

    26 April, 2017 at 17:54
  3. avatar
    #50 Vleis

    @Playa: I was making a general comment, rather than focussing on the 2016 teams, but let’s nevertheless consider same:

    Parktown: Both the captain and Tambwe (Lions Super rugby this year) were u19 last year, plus 6 others. I looked at the SJC festival programme this year and saw a lot of u19s again, albeit less than last year.

    Kingswood: It’s fact that they have post-matric, which obviously helps them significantly – especially given their small numbers. However, I accept that the key strength of the 2016 side was probably the scholarship boys from Dale.

    Dale: I don’t have the facts, but heard mutterings re age from various sources. This seems to tie up with the fact that they produced a paltry 3 CW players despite having the best team in a region (Border) where there are few schools to choose from. That said, I’ll accept as fact your statement that there were 3 u19s…but even 3 is quite a lot in my opinion.

    26 April, 2017 at 16:51
  4. avatar
    #49 Playa

    @Vleis: Eish…we may need to define “many”. Im not knowledgeable on Parktown but here’s an interesting stat:
    Kingswood (who seem to always get stick for fielding post matrics/under 19s) had 1 (possibly 2) under 19 players last year, and Dale had 3. Both teams’ 2016 seasons were arguably the best they’ve had this decade – quite possibly this century. Kingswood achieved this with probably the least number of under 19s in the history of rugby at the school. They built that team from under 15. I have seen KC sides with 6/7/8 19 year post matrics that couldn’t achieve half of what that team achieved. 10 boys in Dale’s 2016 1st XV played under 16 rugby at the school in 2014 – a bunch who were tipped to be heading for disaster by the time they were in matric….they couldn’t buy a win from a beggar.

    Dale has 2 under 19s this year – the side is predominantly under 17. While Dale had 5 regular under 19s – a times fielded 6 – (I would consider that as being ‘many’) in 2015, that team still lost 8 out of the 20 games played – considerably worse than the 2016 loss rate of 2 from 19.

    Much as there is a case to be made for teams being bolstered by u19s – more often than not, the cat needs to be skinned thoroughly before an assertion is made. Like I said, I cannot speak for Parktown, but I can say for a fact that there’s no correlation between number of under 19s and the team’s success rate where Dale is concerned.

    26 April, 2017 at 12:55
  5. avatar
    #48 Roger

    @Hooit: hooker out for the season I believe – damn and blast!

    26 April, 2017 at 08:02
  6. avatar
    #47 Die Ken

    @Hooit: One word, Synonymous

    26 April, 2017 at 07:38
  7. avatar
    #46 BoschBoy

    It feel its very dangerous to look at your U16A team to see how your team will do in 2 years time. It makes sense, but as mentioned by some here, making that step up to U19 level doesn’t always happen. Case in point: the Rondebosch U16A team in 2013 was fantastic. I’m not sure of the exact results but I think they beat 1-2 of the Paarl schools, most of the local derby games (SACS, Berg, Bishops), they won. But they completely under-achieved in 2015. They showed their true potential in the 55-12 thrashing of Bishops on the last day of the season, which I suppose “made up” for a bit of a lacklustre year, but they really should’ve done so much better over the course of the season. Again, it was a case of not making that step up.

    25 April, 2017 at 16:30
  8. avatar
    #45 Hooit

    @Queenian: Have u guys ever considered natural growth vs supplement growth. I know very little about Queens or Dale. At under 16 level is when most kids start using supplements. Legal sypplements. So a player not having access to all these extra’s could stay small and become less competitive. With this you must include training facilities especially a well equipped gym. Once again I know nothing about the 2 schools and saw both for the 1st time at Kearsney this year. Think Queens may have been the smallest team at Kearsney.

    25 April, 2017 at 16:00
  9. avatar
    #44 Vleis

    @Gold: I’m sure that coaching is a key factor, so losing someone of Musikanth’s calibre would make a huge difference. That said, I watched five of Wynberg’s games last year and thought that they had no x factor players apart from Kannemeyer, who often ended up trying to do too much himself.

    @Queenian: In addition to good coaching, some schools are helped by imports, while others via many u19 players. I think that Dale and Parktown have been beneficiaries of the latter, plus probably Kingswood.

    25 April, 2017 at 15:54
  10. avatar
    #43 Queenian

    You know normally you look at your Under 16 age group to see what a team will be like in 2 years time but every time I see a good QC Under16 team they completely under achieve at 1st Team level specially the last 5/6 years, but strange with a school like Dale have a really crap Under16 which turn into a hot 1st Team and that’s coaching I afraid to say.

    25 April, 2017 at 15:39
  11. avatar
    #42 Gold

    @BoschBoy: This is a very good question, and one that I’d love the answer to.

    Between 2012-2014 Wynberg beat top sides such as Grey PE and Boland Landbou, consistently pushed powerhouses such as Paarl Boys to victories by 1 or 2 points and barely lost a game in the southern suburbs to Rondebosch, Bishops or Sacs.

    The last two seasons have been really poor. In 2015 the only win of any significance was against a good Sacs team and last year much the team failed to deliver on what was a really good U16 group that never made the step up to U-19 rugby. They showed their potential with good wins over Bishops and Boland Landbou, but let themselves down for the most part. This show’s the players had potential but that something has gone wrong with the coaching.

    The slump in fortunes seems to directly correlate to the director of rugby leaving and taking up a post at St. Johns. There is also a new headmaster at Wynberg and I think some money needs to be spent on up-skilling the coaching before the school hits rock bottom in terms of rugby results. The school has never had a recruitment/scholarship policy for rugby (which I think isn’t a bad thing at all) but in order to remain competitive in this day and age, more needs to be done to ensure that the coaching is top quality.

    *Just my views from an outside perspective, but would love to hear input from others.

    25 April, 2017 at 15:25
  12. avatar
    #41 Queenian

    @Toffee: Well at Cape Schools Wynberg vs Queens should be and interesting game between two top under-achievers. :mrgreen:

    25 April, 2017 at 15:25
  13. avatar
    #40 Toffee

    @BoschBoy:The current Wynberg first coach is a legend (Justin Van Winkel) and he gets a lot out of the boys, a great coach in my eyes.There is a young Head of Rugby but he is also doing a good job. I do think Kevin Musikanth (ex Head of Rugby) is a special man and while he was at Wynberg the rugby stepped up a level after a few lean years. He is doing great things at St John’s and was instrumental in the Ikeys winning the 2014 Varsity Cup. A hard act to follow.The new Head of Rugby will slowly establish himself and I think he is on the right track. Wynberg have played 5 lost two so far (albeit against moderate opposition)so it is early days.

    25 April, 2017 at 15:09
  14. avatar
    #39 BoschBoy

    @Toffee: Yeah, I agree with you. I do think KES will be too strong. I think Bishops will be a bit erratic again this season, might blow a bit hot and cold this year. I wouldn’t underestimate them as it’s their unpredictability that makes them dangerous. Will be interesting to see how the season progresses.

    I didn’t get to to see the Berg/Bosch game as I’m now living in the UK. I was hoping School Sports Live would stream it, but alas. Your notes on the players were insightful so thanks for that. However, I have to ask the question, what do you think is going on with Wynberg First XV rugby? It’s been a pretty disappointing last two years, especially considering the success had from 2012-2014. Also, the age-groups of the last few years has been solid…do you think it’s a coaching thing?

    25 April, 2017 at 13:23
  15. avatar
    #38 Roger

    @Hooit: KES certainly won’t be claiming a win in a trial game. Helpies beat us fair and square at Ellis Park last year and no official fixture this year – QED. Just hope there are no injuries before Affies on the 15th :roll:

    25 April, 2017 at 12:57
  16. avatar
    #37 Hooit

    @Riempies: I am trying my best not mention Helpies or team or dream in the same sentence but it keeps on coming up. Think I must put this/that baby of mine up for adoption.

    25 April, 2017 at 12:53
  17. avatar
    #36 Riempies

    @Hooit: You are day dreaming again.

    25 April, 2017 at 12:48
  18. avatar
    #35 Hooit

    @Roger: Last year Jeppe took the win over Monnas. We can argue a 5-10 point difference but according to my sources and not my opinion Helpies will take it by 30. But lets not get ahead of ourselves. I am sure you will lose before the magical 1000 days unbeaten.

    25 April, 2017 at 12:44
  19. avatar
    #34 Roger

    @Hooit: Affies 15 May – sorry but I don’t regard a trial game as an official fixture and neither do the schools. I am looking forward to KES Monnas this year though – should be a cracker – especially the u14A game :wink:

    25 April, 2017 at 12:31
  20. avatar
    #33 Hooit

    @Roger: You must remember I am using a foreign language to include you. As long as you can greet the teacher in english everyday you pass in the Westrand. That’s why so many kids from here are in Helpmekaar. There you must also learn to say goodbye in English. That is higher grade for us. That is the reason Westrand children do not fit in in KES. It is all the english between good morning and goodbye.

    25 April, 2017 at 11:54
  21. avatar
    #32 Hooit

    @Hooit: Which date you playing Affies? Before 8 May then they will be the first big ‘test’ after 8 May then it will be Helpmekaar.

    25 April, 2017 at 11:49
  22. avatar
    #31 Hooit

    @Roger: 8 May. Lions trial game

    25 April, 2017 at 11:46
  23. avatar
    #30 Toffee

    I will be at the festival on Saturday.I think KES will beat Bishops. I went to watch the Rondebosch/Wynberg game this past week-end. Wynberg dominated large parts of the first half and had opportunities to score which were not converted. Rondebosch were great on defence.Rondebosch only had a few chances in the first half and converted two. In the 2nd half it was all Bosch. The scoreline was maybe not a true reflection of the game, it was a lot tighter. Wynberg dont seem to have players, other than the inside centre who seem to have X factor and who are able to convert the opportunities. I thought the Rondebosch No 8 was the standout player and who carried the ball very well. The Bosch flyhalf and fullback were also very good, although the fullback could really be a lot better if he were more focused. He seemed to get distracted with the push and shove side of the game.

    I managed to watch the under 14A game which Wynberg won. The teams were very evenly matched and either side could have won. The difference was the Wynberg flyhalf, who seems to have some skills and kicked well. All the Wynberg under 14 teams won and 3 of the 4 under 15 teams won, so hopefully in a few years time Wynberg will be more competitive.

    25 April, 2017 at 11:27
  24. avatar
    #29 Roger

    @Hooit: 8 April? Helpmekaar? Next 5 games are Bishops, Bellville, College, Affies and St Stithians – not playing Helpies as far as I am aware and today is 25 April :roll: :wink:

    25 April, 2017 at 11:27
  25. avatar
    #28 Hooit

    @Roger: You have a big game coming up on 08 April. Think it will be your toughest one for the year so far against Helpmekaar

    25 April, 2017 at 10:37
  26. avatar
    #27 Roger

    @BoschBoy: thanks – yes we are all excited about KES this year and especially the brand of rugby they are playing. I missed the Bosch game but heard it was fantastic-I believe Bosch has some seriously big boys! How are Bishops this year – they’ve been under the radar a touch?

    25 April, 2017 at 08:35
  27. avatar
    #26 Dok F

    Waar kan ‘n mens die tye van die wedstryde kry? Ek verstaan nie die “slot” ding nie

    25 April, 2017 at 08:29
  28. avatar
    #25 BoschBoy

    @Roger: You mentioned the Southern Suburb schools being quiet, well I thought it was time that Rondebosch had a bit of a voice on here ;) This is my first post so I’m really excited to engage with you all and join in the discussions.

    I watched the KES game against Bosch at your festival. You guys impressed me and I think you’re going to have a good year. I think that Bosch has the potential to be quite competitive this year but our forwards need to step up a bit more. I’m sure you must be looking forward to the KES v Bishops game – Bishops had a good comeback against Stellenberg (from 28-3 down to win 28-29), so it should be a competitive game.

    24 April, 2017 at 10:39
  29. avatar
    #24 boerboel

    @Roger: my apologies-thought they were meeting :mrgreen:

    24 February, 2017 at 09:49
  30. avatar
    #23 boerboel

    @Roger: fair enough :lol: :lol: :lol:

    24 February, 2017 at 09:48
  31. avatar
    #22 Roger

    @boerboel: the only thing I’ll take from you is your hard earned moola when you are proved wrong!

    23 February, 2017 at 13:00
  32. avatar
    #21 beet

    @boerboel: Easy prediction to make if the teams don’t play each other in 2017.

    Maybe call some of the tougher games that do actually happen to make your “heard it here first” a little more valuable :-D

    23 February, 2017 at 12:13
  33. avatar
    #20 Playa

    @Roger: Your boys may have to make a guest appearance at Cape Schools Week to get all 4. Given how strong SACS is expected to be, I’d be happy for Dale to give you that fixture on 1 July :mrgreen:

    23 February, 2017 at 11:50
  34. avatar
    #19 boerboel

    @Roger: Sacs will drill Kes-you heard it here first!

    23 February, 2017 at 11:05
  35. avatar
    #18 Roger

    Noooooooo – we want SACS!

    23 February, 2017 at 10:56
  36. avatar
    #17 Playa

    @beet: I’d also be interested to know.Anyone who’s pulled it off in the last decade and a bit would have done extremely well.

    19 February, 2017 at 21:40
  37. avatar
    #16 beet

    @Playa: Okay cool. Thanks. I wonder if that was the last time that feat was achieved or attempted?

    19 February, 2017 at 16:55
  38. avatar
    #15 Playa

    @beet: Dale played and beat all 4 in 1999. :mrgreen:

    18 February, 2017 at 20:00
  39. avatar
    #14 beet

    @Tang: Sorry Tang I was way out with the headmaster comment. Got my facts mixed up. I should have checked first. PBHS are not expecting any sort of change.

    17 February, 2017 at 23:00
  40. avatar
    #13 beet

    @Roger: I wonder if any school outside of the Western Cape has ever participated in Southern Suburbs grandslam?

    17 February, 2017 at 22:39
  41. avatar
    #12 Roger

    KES playing Bosch and Bishops and I believe Wynberg at the KES festival – just need to line up SACS for the southern suburbs grand slam!

    17 February, 2017 at 15:20
  42. avatar
    #11 Tang

    @Playa: I didn’t mean to be flippant about the coaches. I agree fully with you and the coaching staff and approach deserve praise and recognition.

    16 February, 2017 at 07:24
  43. avatar
    #10 Playa

    @Tang: That’s a bit of unfair comment on SACS, and the coaches who have made a success of the last few seasons. SACS have given rugby scholarships for as long as I can remember (and this is going back to the 1990s). Even during the time when their rugby was in the doldrums as you put it. It’s nothing new. You may argue maybe that they have only recently applied a more vigorous approach at handing them out – with some boys being required to send a video of their rugby highlights as part of the application. If I am not mistaken, in the last 3 years, there is no 1st XV that has had more than 2 boys on a scholarship in it. One has to give some credit to the coaching.

    15 February, 2017 at 13:54
  44. avatar
    #9 Tang

    @beet: If there was such a change, there would probably be a change in regard to bursaries.

    15 February, 2017 at 11:42
  45. avatar
    #8 beet

    @Tang: With regards to sports bursaries, I wonder what effect a change in headmaster have up at PBHS. Hope I’m not getting my wires crossed but it sounded like there is a change in the pipeline?

    15 February, 2017 at 10:01
  46. avatar
    #7 Tang

    @beet: This is probably the best Young Guns write up I have seen this year.


    15 February, 2017 at 09:46
  47. avatar
    #6 Tang

    I don’t mean to hijack the Wynberg Festival post, but it seems the Southern Suburb bloggers are the quietest, so I don’t think they will mind.

    @beet: I did a comparison of SACS and Jeppe (regarding rugby success). Both SACS and Jeppe were in the doldrums until they started giving bursaries. At first, it appeared as though SACS were going the coaching route (similar to PBHS). However, on closer inspection, SACS have gone for a scholarship approach.
    Amazing how both Jeppe and SACS have been able to transform their rugby programmes with bursaries.
    I think Rudi Dames will play a prominent role in PBHS rugby this year, but I would say the lack of real quality (players) is going to plague PBHS until they adopt a SACS/ Jeppe approach.

    15 February, 2017 at 09:44
  48. avatar
    #5 Tang

    @beet: I hear you. It seems rather political who gets into VC.
    There were two VC Young Guns games on Monday. Not a single write up. No idea of lineups, etc.

    15 February, 2017 at 09:30
  49. avatar
    #4 beet

    @Playa: Yeah. I think I will add “long lasting” to your appropriate “sour taste” statement

    15 February, 2017 at 08:42
  50. avatar
    #3 Playa

    @beet: Eish that debacle was proper egg in face for VC rugby.It still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.Animal farm stuff

    15 February, 2017 at 06:43
  51. avatar
    #2 beet

    @Tang: Yeah Tang. I tried it a few years ago but it was difficult to get feedback. I guess I could run it in a table like the CC u19

    Anyway after what happened to UKZN’s promotion hopes, I don’t watch VC at all anymore.

    14 February, 2017 at 18:13
  52. avatar
    #1 Tang

    @beet: Have you seen how poor the coverage is for the Varsity Cup Young Guns competition?
    It may be a good addition to your blog if you could add a Varsity Cup Young Guns section.

    14 February, 2017 at 11:41

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