Schoolboy Rugby Recruitment Scorecard

For the first time it’s possible to assign a value to a high school rugby recruit thanks to the SBR Recruitment Scorecard.

SCORECARD – score out of 40
 Rule No.1 : Recruiting Gr.7’s is an acceptable norm
The scorecard does not apply to the recruiting of primary school players by high schools for their next year’s Grade-8 in-take.
Rule No.2 : Quantity does matter!
In other words if High School A has 2 recruits and High School B has 1 recruit, all other things being equal, High School A is twice as “bad” as High School B
Rule No.3 : Family relocation
A genuine (as opposed to a fake) family relocation which included the necessity for the player to change schools, automatically classifies that player as a “good” (scorecard value = 0).
The scorecard below can however still be used to calculate that player’s recruitment value to his new high school.
Option Score
Section A : Who got the ball rolling
The new high school or connected person to the new school makes a direct approach to the player and/or his parent 5
The new high school or connected person to the new school makes an indirect approach eg advert or word of mouth 2
The player’s parent initiates the move without any form of new high school influence 0
Section B : Willingness to communicate
Prior to the move, the new high school does not communicate with the old high school at all 5
The new high school does not make use of the first available opportunity to let the old high school of what’s about to happen 3
The new high school makes use of the first available opportunity to let the old high school know about what might happen 0
Section C : Saying goodbye and thank you
The new high school or a connected person to the new high school asks the player’s parent and/or the player to keep all details surrounding the move a secret until after it has taken place 5
The new high school or a connected person to the new high school is not concerned about who the player’s parent and/or the player talks to at the old high school about the move 0
Section D : Funding
The entire school fees + related costs are paid for by the school or connected person to the school 5
The player’s parent gets assistance to pay part of the school fees + related costs with financial help from the new high school or connected person to the new high school 2
The player’s parent pays the entire school fees + related costs without any financial help from the new high school or connected person to the new high school 0
Section E : Old high school’s quality of rugby
The old high school is categorised as a big rugby school (BHP ranking category 2.6-5.0) 5
The old high school is categorised as a middle of the range rugby school and in the same provincial region as the new high school (BHP ranking category 1.1-2.5) 4
The old high school is categorised as a middle of the range rugby school but in a different provincial region to the new high school (BHP ranking category 1.1-2.5) 3
The old high school is categorised as a small rugby school (BHP ranking category 0.1-1.0) 1
The old high school is not in South Africa 0
Section F : Grade in which the player entered the new high school
The player’s first game for the new high school is as a Gr 12 or above 5
The player’s first game for the new high school is as a Gr 11 5
The player’s first game for the new high school is as a Gr 10 4
The player’s first game for the new high school is as a Gr 9 1
The player’s first game for the new high school is as a Gr 8 0
Section G : Player’s ability
The player is a star in the A-team at the new high school 5
The player is a starting A-team player at the new high school 3
The player is a fringe A-team player at the new high school 1
The player does not play for the A-team at the new high school 0
(For the above A-team includes the 2nd team and for an u17 it is determined by the team he is expected to play in as an u18)
Section H : Player’s provincial representation
The player played at an u16 or u18 National Youth Week as a representative of his old high school 5
The player made an u16 or u18 final Provincial Trials team as a representative of his old high school 2
The player did not make an u16 or u18 final Provincial Trials team nor did he play at a National Youth Week as a representative of his old high school 0
Good, Bad and Ugly Classifications
0 -10
Good
11-20
Bad
21-30 Ugly
31-40 FUGLY!!!

111 Comments

  1. Disagree big time with Rule No 2. Either your policy is to recruit/poach/”offer the opportunity of a world class education” :mrgreen: or it isn’t. If you do it once, twice or twenty times – your intentions are still the same.

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  2. @GreenBlooded – I think the intention is to establish some sort of scoring metric. You are right – you either poach or you don’t. However, to gain insight into the significance or level of poaching, you have to establish some sort of baseline or mark in the ground.
    I have always maintained there is more causality in recruiting players than thers is in the number of boys at the school (Quality over Quantity). The recruitment scorecard will indicate the level of causality and should put some results into context.
    Once the recruitment index/ scorecard is in place, it will be interesting to see the correlation to rankings.

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  3. Section G & E also put a player/school into a “Not too bad” category immediately – and are pretty independent of the “new” school’s actions.

    so poaching a player from a school like Falcon or Peterhouse or Windhoek is OK – and gets zero – while grabbing someone from Umtata High or Ficksburg automatically gives you a “1”.

    I guess that this will always be subjective and create lots of room for bar room debates. But a reasonable first stab at a scorecard.

    I could add to Rule 2: Possibly not relocation – but “Welfare” of the boy. So if there is a school where the boy is just not growing or developing. an example is at a newish school in the Upper Highway area – a whole bunch of kids left in end of Grade 9 to other local schools (MC, Hillcrest High, Kloof, Thomas Moore, St Mary’s and Kearsney). Similarly a whole bunch arrived from similar schools. Reason varied from the kids subject choices, developmental opportunities in a large/small school, cultural extra murals, sporting opportunities etc. I’m not sure that this is an isolated case study – and perhaps anyone in the teaching profession could highlight whether there is a normal movement around the Grade 9 to m10 transition (when subjects are chosen)?

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  4. @Rugger fan:

    Section E also let’s a school off the hook who imports players from foreign countries – let’s just say for the sake of arguement, places like The Netherlands and Zimbabwe…. :mrgreen:

    The scorecard is a great idea – obviously not perfect – but that’s why it’s been put up for debate.

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  5. Good:
    Traditional Boys schools who don’t need to buy, contract etc.
    Grey Bloem: Bloemfontein
    Paul Roos: Bergbokke
    Affies: Pretoria
    Maritzburg College: Burbs
    Selborne: Eastern Cape (Long shot. Not to familiar what is the goings on in the region)
    Co-Ed Schools
    Oos Moot: Pretoria
    Eldoraigne: Pretoria
    Nelspruit(Nellies): Nelspruit
    Standerton: Mpumalanga
    Pietersburg: Limpopo
    Schools moving into this category(forget the rumours etc)
    Waterkloof: Pretoria
    Centurion: Pretoria

    I wanted to put a couple of Fugly’s in. Decided not to. I might get moered 8)

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  6. @Woltrui
    I am not sure I understand your post. Are you saying the schools mentioned in your post don’t recruit players?
    Recruit means the following:
    To secure the services of (engage, hire)
    To fill up numbers with new members
    To seek to enroll
    To replenish
    To enlist as a member

    A quick browse through your list and I think you will be surprised at how many of the schools do recruit. Remember recruit needn’t be an overt action, it can be an implied action (your son will have a much better rugby future if he attends school X)

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  7. @Tang: Following Beet’s scorecard above. The schools I listed get a “good” report. Pretoria Boys High also falls in the “good” category. :wink:
    Everybody recruit. Not everybody buy, give bursaries etc. If you still don’t understand I will blame it on my English. Then I will have to try and explain in kitchen dutch(I am a rockspider).

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  8. @Woltrui: In another post you already said you don’t claim to have integrity. So, we will be taking your list with a pinch of salt. Very biased indeed, without factual proof. Just who you want to be on the list. Let us get the facts – then we can compile lists.

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  9. @Woltrui: I just had to laugh on the last two on your list and the statement forget the rumours. We all should know by now that Waterkloof obtained the services of three new players the beginning of this year – new first team players. And Centurion up to last year were big recruiters. I don’t know yet about this year.

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  10. @Beet: From my little knowledge and applying the scoring, not one top school will be able to claim to be either good or not too bad.

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  11. @Org: Ek maak so Org.
    Goed:
    Boland Landbou
    Grey Bloem
    Paul Roos.
    Affies
    Maritzburrow
    Selborne
    Oos Moot
    Eldoraigne
    Nellies
    Standerton
    Pieties
    Klofies
    Centurion.
    KES in JHB??

    Groete aan Ploegskaar. As hy skrik moet hy asb wakker skrik :wink:

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  12. @Woltrui: Dankie ou Bul, lyk pragtig. Het ou Ploeg Saterdag by die Boland/Oakdale interskole atletiek gesien, sal jou eendag vertel wat daai man vir skolerugby en Boland doen, vra nooit erkenning nie. Kan wel bietjie luidrigtig langs die veld wees…

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  13. @Djou: Djou there haven’t been all that many things that blogger agree on but there seems to be common ground with the statement “all schools recruit!” However if anyone was to suggest that all schools “poach” they would be met with a lot of resistance and probably rightfully so.

    So the scorecard is a first attempt.

    I think the classifications need a more thought

    However the scorecard works to an acceptable extent. It distinguishes a harmless recruitment from a fugly poach!

    And if a school has one recruit with a low score they are definitely not worthy of being bracketed with the school that has 5 or more players each scoring 30+ points out of 40.

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  14. @Djou: And I think Rule no. 3 should be a reminder that there is actually no rule or law in school rugby against a recruitment of any kind except maybe in KZN where the HMA limits the ability to use u19 recruits to maximum effect

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  15. @Djou: Concerning Waterkloof. They stopped the project from the Blue Bulls to place (highly talented) Afrikaans speaking recruited kids (thus mostly from the Western Cape) at the school. They felt it was not good for the education of the replaced kids. Also that it was unloyal to their own kids. Why would they then go and “buy” players from Rustenburg(who doesn’t have a good record in the Beeld as well as super 16)? Concerning Beet’s scorecard you cannot penalise Kloof for the fact that the kids came to the school out of free will. “They will play for the first team” is a matter of debat. I suspect there is a couple of kids in Kloof who won’t agree with you.
    Then again. Since you are a big supporter of “buying” and “contracting” young kids I can understand that it suits you to say Kloof is buying. Since Kloof is “buying” it gives you the right to buy and you don’t have to feel guilty about opportunities you are taking away from your own kids.
    By the by. You very confidently made the statement that Deon Stegmann won’t make the Bulls starting team. Still feeling confident about that remark, our local Blue Bulls fundi? :wink:

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  16. @Rugger fan: There are so many variations and your example made me realise that the scorecard could be taken seriously (I actually developed it to be light-hearted entertainment more than anything else :) ) IF the classifications at the end were made more meaningful.

    In your case I’m going to assume the new high school would score
    A:0
    B:0
    C:0
    D:0
    E:1
    F:4
    G:3
    H:0
    Total: 8
    which based on your circumstances is definitely not a “Not Good” but perhaps a “Reasonably Good” recruitment for the new high school. It certainly isn’t anything to be ashamed of from an ethical point of view even though they have acquired a good player from a school in the same region.

    This as opposed to the new school’s headline making recruitment drama from last year which would probably have scored:
    A:5
    B:3
    C:0
    D:5
    E:4
    F:5
    G:5
    H:5
    Total: 32
    and based on how it unfolded it turned out to be something between an “Ugly” and a “Fugly” even though public perception isn’t built into the scorecard.

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  17. @Rugger fan: I can confirm that there is a fair amount of movement from small schools to bigger schools when subject choices are made at the start of Grade 10. My wife is on staff at a small private school. Their subject bundles are limited due to small class sizes and limited numbers wanting to do obscure bundles. For instance there might be only 1 kid interested in Computer Studies so the school does not offer it, or they offer the exams but the child has to get private tutoring for the subject. They leave for a bigger school that offers all possible combinations.

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  18. @Woltrui: glo jy die strooi wat jy kwytraak? Ek bedoel rerig, glo jy dit? Steek jouself met n speld om seker te maak jys wakker! Jy leef in ‘n absolute droom wêreld! Ek het al met my eie oë so kort as laasjaar n getekende waterkloof hoërskool beurs brief gesien… en jy dink steeds dit bestaan nie? Ai ai ai… none as blind as those who will not see…

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  19. @Org: Ja toe nou, daar’s baie manne hier wat baie meer doen, maar jy’s reg, Boland hoort bo aan daai lys.

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  20. @Skoorsteen: niks met verdedig te doen nie… slegs met feite… woltrui is van opinie dat affies en waterkloof nie die goedjies doen nie… ek het egter vir hom slegte nuus… wat het bill clinton gesê: “I did not have sex with that woman”. Deny, deny, deny…. and how did that work out for him…?

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  21. @rugbyman…het jy al ‘n getekende kontrak van Affies gesien? Rede vir my vraag is: sal ‘n man soos dok edwards wat van wat ek kan aflei uit blog as ‘n beginselvaste mens bestempel word, sy nek uitsteek en sekere uitlatings in nasionale media maak as sy huis nie skoon is nie.
    @ beet. Don’t you think the time has come to publish copies of the contracts that the schools enter into? I believe it will not be hard to get a couple of disgruntled parents whose children’s contracts has bern canelled who will make the contracts available. Name and shame the schools involved.

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  22. Just an FYI Glenwood has lost a few players too;

    2014 U16A/B scrumhalf to Westville
    2014 U14B flyhalf to Westville
    2014 U15A fullback to Garsfontein
    2014 U15A lock to Garsfontein
    2014 U15A/B flank to home schooling

    Things work both ways….

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  23. @4×4: nee ek het nog nie want affies maak gebruik van klub600 om die werkies te doen en maak asof hulle nie weet nie…

    Kom ek vertel dit nou maar…

    Laasjaar toe die hele ontrekking bom gebars het, het Johan Ackerman my kom vra of ek weet dat Klub600 se manne hom kom sien het na sy oudtes seun se o/16 jaar om hom te werf en te skuif na Affies toe… Dit HET gebeur, so wys jou maar net, die goedjies gebeur maar orals met of sonder die dok se medewete – daaroor kan ek beslis nie ‘n opmerking maak nie…

    Ek weet van nog sulme gevalle, ook ‘n meer onlangse geval waar Klub600 se mannr met ‘n baie priminente seun in Oos-Moot gepraat het… ou woltrui sal dit natuurlik hoog en laag ontken… want die heiliges sal nooit so iets doen nie… dis net ons varke van garsies wat dit sal durf waag…

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  24. @Grasshopper: u neglect to mention that you guys took our u/15 centre, prop and lock… the fullback that u refer to comes from pretoria in any event… he wasnt happy at glennwood and wanted to come home… so I would say the scores is 3 – 1 to glennwood…

    I also heard u took a boy from affies as well, current u/16…

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  25. @Grasshopper: there is no lock from glennwood u/15 of last year in our school… only the fullback u refer to and he came last year allready…

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  26. @Rugbyman: OK, then the lock has left for somewhere else. My point is that everybody here thinks Glenwood only takes in new players, they also lose quite a few and very good players to boot. They lost their Under16A captains 2 years in a row to Hilton….so it seems to be an open market now. If that is the case, then no school is clean….

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  27. @Grasshopper: It has been like that for a while… thats my point, all the top schools does in some other way, be it a club, a company, a wealthy group of parents, old boys etc. Most of those schools conveniently denies it, thats the only difference… Its like the american government denying that the CIA does interrogation through torturing… they choose to ignore/deny the issue – they know it happens but choose to turn a blind eye cause it is to their benefit…

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  28. @Rugbyman: OK then we should all should just stop harping on about poaching/recruitment/buying etc then and just play the team put out on the field be it a bought ‘Barbarians’ side or a home grown one. I am just sick of Glenwood being the scapegoat for the attacks when it’s obvious every other school is doing the same. I still don’t agree with it, but when in Rome do what the Romans do. Glenwood isn’t a sudden rugby school, they have always been in the Top 6 in KZN, maybe top a handful of years but we certainly are not ‘new kids on the block’ so to speak…

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  29. @Beet – Perhaps there needs to be some refinement of the initial score.
    If we work on the premise that all schools recruit, then we need to make clear distinctions between the type of recruiting.
    Perhaps the following questions should be added:
    1) Is the recruiting overt or covert? Examples of Overt recruiting – running an open day, running festivals (primary school festivals run on the schools premises), running coaching workshops, making use of famous old boys, etc. Overt should get 1 point (if we all work on the premise that all schools recruit). Examples of covert recruiting – the school or an agent of the school attends festivals and approaches prospective students with a promise (the promise could be a full scholarship, an offer to relocate parents, a promise to be in a certain team, the implied promise that by attending said school, the student has a high chance of making a provincial team of becoming a professional). Covert should get 2 points.
    Some schools will have overt and covert recruiting so they would get 3 points.

    @Woltrui – I wasn’t having a dig at your post, I was just trying to point out that most schools recruit even if it is overt or covert (or both).

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  30. @Tang: Spot on and some schools are just better than others at the covert stuff so know one ever knows really what went on. Glenwood run an Under13 rugby festival to show off facilities etc and also hosted Super 15 teams, run the Bizsport Festival and hosted the Academy Week last year, those are examples of overt recruitment. What individual coaches, parents, agents and kids do only god knows…..unfortunately we will never know the full story on each move. John Allan is a prominent Glenwood Old Boy who’s son attends Glenwood, another example of overt recruitment. Using OB’s on twitter is another good one, KES are very good at milking Brian Habana and Joe Van Niekerk on that one. Glenwood certainly needs to get better with using social media…….obviously having a tough fixture list playing the best helps attract kids and lastly having many provincial reps attracts the best too….it’s cut throat out there in the race for Gov school survival. Oh yes, well done to your swimmers beating Glenwood at the Westville gala and tying on points at the Alan Burt Gala. I believe Glenwood hosted PBHS swimmers…

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  31. @Grasshopper: I can’t believe Home Schooling poached a player from Glenwood. Those Home School scouts are ruthless and won’t take no for an answer. Packages they offer players include free tuition, free accommodation, all meals paid for, sometimes outrageous sums of pocket money. Some students are even believed to be given their own flat screen TVs and cars when they turn 18. Talk about a professional set up. I urge all schools to watch out for these home school scouts.

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  32. @Tang: It’s sort of covered in Section A. At a tournament or workshop, either someone acting on behalf of the school makes a direct approach or something in the setup is designed to convince kids/parents that they need to move to that school.

    There is also a 0 in section F for Gr.8 players suggesting that it is acceptable for a high school to recruit primary school kids and most of the other options suggest high school to high school moves but maybe primary school recruiting needs to be recorded an exception rule.

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  33. @Grasshopper:

    Don’t stop harping on. Ever. Bad things happen when the good okes sit back. I don’t subscribe to the “It going to happen so forget it and move on” philosophy at all. This house of cards is going to come crashing down in spectacular fashion one day and I hope I’m around to see it happen.

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  34. @GreenBlooded: I am like you but losing the patience with this lot. Maybe the sands of time and natural attrition will remove the current management, let’s hope in time for when my lighty goes to high school in 13 years from now…

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  35. While all are busy figuring out who scouts the most, I must admit it must be Affies! The Affies boys are recruiting the Garsies – and Menlo girls big time!

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  36. @beet: Point taken about taking things too literally.

    On the homeschool scouts:
    > the boy can wear PJ’s or Designed labels to school – his choice
    > Hair inspection is no longer compulsory
    > Breakfast and science in bed are possible
    > No lessons during the World Cup matches
    > Flat screen and DSV in the classroom
    > Discovery channel can be a subject
    > No worry about school run traffic
    > Mom and dad dont ask you what you did at school today
    > Family vacation are part of the curriculum

    Seriously – I wish him well – have some awesome and successful homeschool friends. I trust he continues his rugby (and other sports) via the club system

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  37. @Rugger fan:

    I have found the major drawback with home schooled kids is that they generally lack social skills and the ability to play nicely with others. At home/school, it’s all about them and there is no requirement to fit into a group, wait your turn etc. Quite a few kids who have come through the club rugby ranks during my time have had this issue. Nice kids – just no idea how to fit into a group/team. Obviously not all – but most.

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  38. @Beet – In my view, the scorecard is designed to highlight two important topics.

    1) Eligibility.
    Two broad aspects to eligibility are residence and attendance
    The player is eligible for the school if they live in the catchment area or if they have been enrolled at the school from form 1 and re-register by November/ December of the current school year. If a child moves school during the school year, they can only become eligible if their parents can prove relocation or for extenuating circumstances force them into boarding school. If a player does not meet these requirements, they should be ineligible for at least one year.

    2) Amateurism.
    Any athlete or player that receives a scholarship purely for sporting reasons or they or their parents receive payment, special favours, promise of playing in a provincial team, promise of playing in a first side or A side should be deemed to no longer be amateur.
    Amateurism should also be extended to a defined season start and stop date. During the off season, players may not participate in any team related activities (they may only work on conditioning). (Rugby season should open on 1 March and close on 30 September).

    Team sheets should be submitted and signed off by the head of sport stating that players are eligible and amateur.
    The opposing team should have the right to remove ineligible and professional players from the team sheet.

    School sport is a privilege not a right. We should foster a system of equity where academic excellence is placed above scholastic athletic excellence.
    In addition to eligibility and amateurism, we should also insist that players in first teams meet a minimum academic standard. The head of sport should also sign off that players on first teams have met the agreed standard.

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  39. @GreenBlooded: Agreed but I disagree – my boy was homeschooled for his early career (and you coached him too). I believe a lot lies at the hands of the parents. Social needs to be approached as a “subject” and done accordingly. IMO – many of the homeschooled kids (who did not have personality issues – or their parents didn’t have them :roll: :wink: ) actually come out really well rounded and socially well adjusted.

    The issue is there are a good few “hillbillies” who approach homeschooling from a redneck perspective and shelter their kids too much. It pretty much the same as saying GW is a bad school – nope – not at all – but not right for every boy. Horses for courses.

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  40. @Rugger fan:

    Yip – indeed and your boy being an obvious exception. I guess it does depend on how it’s approached and on the wisdom of the parents to make sure that all aspects are covered.

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  41. @Grasshopper: Haha… Rooting, digging, burrowing, cheering, rootling, call it what you want to. In Afrikaans sê ons sommer hulle bederf hulle! Free transportation, welcome motion picture, free banquet, but as we all know… there is nothing like a free lunch!

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  42. @Cappie: I tell you another story, it was 1995 and we were on an athletics Tour being hosted by PBHS parents. It was Saturday night and the Bulls had just won at Loftus and us little kippies were at the Sports Frog in Hatfield Square getting rat arsed! Later we ended up walking down some street and bumping into some nice looking girls. They invited us 3 guys back to their ‘res’ where my one mate ‘vrei’d’ with the one, little did we know it was the Pretoria Girls High Res…..jeez you okes up there are like randy rabbits…

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  43. Nothing like those Pretoria girls (I spent my Army up there)….. I think those blokes in Pta don’t know what to do :lol: :roll: 8-O

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  44. @Grasshopper: Naaa, don’t think so. College boys would never be drinking, and from memory we always got advance invitations from the Pretoria girls as soon as they knew we were touring.

    Jokes aside, yesterday I got a Whatsapp from the PBHS lighties that we have hosted for the last 4 years, “booking” his spot in the Malema Suite at Chateau Gungets for 1st August, and the standard invite of a spot at his place for my lightie on 2 May. It’s why I look forward to the PBHS fixtures.

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  45. @Gungets Tuft: Good gesture. The Derby’s are way more than to compete on the field. The night before friendships are built between rivals that would compete the next day. Those kids that are sleeping over becomes your responsibility the next day, like a guy from Glenwood who’s shoulder was displaced during the rugby match. We made sure that he be looked after, after the accident. Visa versa when our kids visit there.

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  46. @beet: Home schooling is the school kids attend that are bound by the HM agreement. After a term in that school they can move wherever they want to. The boy concerned I am convinced was bound by that. @Rugbyman: by the way the boy was definitely not unhappy at GW. There were several “home” factors that played a major role. He enjoyed his U15A year and I believe he was a solid contender for GK.

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  47. @beet: another added bonus of home schooling is that you become head boy, Dux and you receive the prize for altruistic service!!!!!!

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  48. @ROOIBUL: Ai ou Rooies. Spanne vir wie ek skreeu het al so baie keer by die Rooibulle “sticks” gekry. Ek kry so emosionele pyn as ek dink aan al die loesings. Sal maar my persoonlike trauma’s agter my plaas. Let by gone’s be by gone’s. Voeg ons HTS Middelburg ook by op die Woltrui “Goed” lysie. :evil:

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  49. @Tang: No Tang I didn’t take your question to my post as a dig at me. PBHS is in my opinion one of the BEST academic institutes in PTown. Spoke to an English friend on Tuesday and told him all about Boys High (his kid is a good hockey player). Still remember the first time I visited Boys High. Wondered who was the “sir” everybody was greeting. Thought a school master were following me around the grounds. How the teaching staff at Boys High does it I don’t know but those kids has got discipline. I saw on a post somebody complained that Affies Boys were singing “and he wasn’t bought”. Those complainers should come watch a Affies/Boys High derby for some proper sledging! And everybody is laughing and enjoying it. “I’ll rather be a pebble than a rock from Affies High….”. Boys High = True gentlemen. So I definately didn’t see your question as a dig at me :wink:

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  50. @rugbyman….ek het ‘n afskrif van Klub 600 se finansiele state bekom vir die afgelope 3 jaar….die gemelde state is opgestel deur ‘n baie gesiene ouditeurs firma van Pretoria. Uit die state kan ek die volgende aflei….dat daar ‘n hengse gewag gemaak word van Klub 600 se betrokke heid deur finansiele werwing en/of dat indien daar finansiele bystand is dit aan slegs 1 kind kan wees, want die klub verdien nie naastenby wat die algemene publiek dink dit verdien nie….laat weet as ek vir jou afakrifte kan aanstuur. Wat betref die werwing issue dink ek almal is dit eens dat alle skole werf…maar nie almal doen dit noodwendig deur finansiele voordele te belowe nie.

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  51. @Skoorsteen: Hoekom word ons naam die heeltyd deur jou genoem? Wat is jou probleem garsfontein? Jy het geen idee waarvan jy praat nie… jy het geen idee wat by ons aangaan nie… so tot jy rerig weet wat aangaan, plaas liefs ‘n wag voor jou mond

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  52. @4×4: ek stek werklik nie belang in die klub se state nie… daar is in elk geval baie ander maniere hoe dit hanteer kan word… byvoorbeeld ‘n ouer wat lus voel kan mos ‘n kind borg… dit gaan nie oor finansiele werwing noodwendig nie… al voorbeeld wat ek genoem het was ruan ackerman se o/16 jaar en dat hulle hom beslis genader het! Ek het nooit iets gese van ‘n beurs nie… so jy mag ‘n kind nader solank daar nie ‘n beurs betrokke is nie… is dit wat jy sê? Ek weet van nog sulke voorbeelde…

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  53. @Rugbyman: Die feit is RugbyMan meeste top rugbyskole werf!! Finish en klaar!!! Elke skool wil net nie sy “geheime” werwings resep weg gee nie!!

    En almal se hulle doen dit vir die regte redes!!

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  54. @Skoorsteen; Jy kan skole maar prober verkleineer, maar wanneer jy dit sonder feite doen sien mens deur jou integriteit en jou ware kleure.

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  55. @Skoorsteen: So terloops, weet jy waarom Garsfontein begin werf het? Hulle was die enigste skool wat nooit gewerf het nie, maar weens die werwing van hul buurskole daartoe gedwing is – vir redes wat min met rugby uit te waai het. DIt is al soveel keer herhaal, maar lyk my jy lees selektief, en al lees jy ordentlik sal jy steeds ‘n situasie prober plooi om jou wanindrukke te probeer regverdig.

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  56. @rugbyman…ja. Almal werf. Maar ek is gekant teen werwing teen vergoeding. Ek het al ‘n paar skole se kontrakte wat gesluit word onder oe gehad…sukkel om een van Affies te kry. Daarom my vroeer vraag aan jou of jy al een onder oe gehad het.

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  57. Sterkte vandag vir EG Jansen en Menlo Park in die finaal van die Titans streek Pro20 krieket reeks.

    Mag die beste span wen, en Menlo ook ‘n goeie wedstryd he ! :wink:

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  58. Geen kommentaar oor die sport(s) in Skaapstad, gisteraand nie. Ek verkoop kaartjies vir die volgende 4 “events”. Lets make it a traveling circus so that the whole nation can participate and experience these occasions. My son watched from abroad and he let me know- “a very accurate state of the nation”

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  59. @Rugbyman Wie het kloof n beurs voor aangebied volgens jou! Ek sal ook graag wil weet!……….

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  60. @kloof2014: @Leelu: SBR supporters are looking for immunity for their schools on the basis that they do not offer sports bursaries and scholarships. Section D of the scorecard includes connected person to the school at the same points level, suggesting there is no difference in whether the money comes directly out of the school budget or from an external source. The latter is fast becoming the more popular way of doing business.

    There should probably be bonus points for those that claim to know little about or have no connection to an organisation that is religiously working to improve school’s rugby by funding new arrivals/players who join the school.

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  61. @Leelu: Verduidelik asb. die verskil tussen die 2 asook die verskil in bedragterme.
    Heelwat skole probeer beurse verdoesel met vreemde benamings ens ens.
    Wees ook so gaaf om die verskil in kontrakterme te verduidelik, want sien ons het al die Klofiekontrakte vir beurse onder oë gehad, maar nie die vir leerderondersteuning nie.

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  62. @Djou: My seun is in Klofies. Ek besef dat daar verskeie maniere is om beurse te probeer verdoesel, maar alles kom neer op dieselfde – die kind kry op een of ander wyse korting t.o.v. skoolfonds, verblyf, ens. Dit was my tong in die kies wyse om te beaam dat Klofies wel “beurse” gee (my plig teenoor die blog) sonder om in die moeilikheid te kom (my plig teenoor die skool).

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  63. @BoishaaiPa: Thats an interesting one BHP. A school entices a parent + player but with no “show me the money!” attached. It almost sounds like it could never work in reality. Do you have a living example?

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  64. @beet: It does happen and quite often as well. Sometimes just that honour that a good rugby school rates a player and would welcome his application is enough to sway both parent and player, mostly at an increased cost for the parent. Never underestimate the lure of tradition and reputation.

    On that subject, should there not be a rebate of sorts if recruitment is done without any gain, gratis en verniet, many times without even a thank you?

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  65. @Beet: Ploegskaar is correct. Garsies is now experiencing precisely this. As such they were able to reduce the number of bursaries.

    @Leelu: Man, die waarheid is gewoonlik die beste antwoord. Wanneer mens uitgevang word is al jou integriteit daarmee heen.

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  66. @Djou: Verskoon my droë sin vir humor. Dit is juis waarom ek “leerder ondersteuning” in aanhalings gesit het. Moet asseblief nie so vinnig oordeel en veroordeel nie. Met my integriteit skort daar niks.

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  67. @Leelu: Ek het jou ‘n wenk gegee. Nie veroordeel nie. ‘n Paar manne is al liederlik uitgevang en hul menings word nou met ‘n knippie sout gevat.

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  68. @beet: I can give you about 20 odd living examples ..Ploegie knows what he is talking about. an Invite to apply is sometimes a great acknowledgement….

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  69. @BoishaaiPa: @Ploegskaar:

    I don’t know if you guys will disagree but under those circumstances such an approach would score

    5 points under Section A : Who got the ball rolling
    and
    0 points under Section D : Funding

    And adding points from other sections it’s quite possible that such a move could still score higher than 30 in total and be regarded as a FUGLY!

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  70. @beet: Key phrases “good rugby school” and “lure of reputation and tradition”. So, there will be no direct or indirect approach, as provided under section A. You need a 4th option: a suggestion by a rondom/unaffiliated/unconnected supporter of a school, that should score max 0, probably -5. Combined score of A & D at best 0, or less. It’s unfair to generalize, that’s only accommodating the idiots that’s doing it wrong.

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  71. @Ploegskaar: “Random, unconnected, unaffiliated” …. makes you wonder by they would bother. The only circumstance I can see like that is here an interested uncle sees his 16 year old nephew messing around with a rugby ball and suggested to the father that he might be better off at College than at Underberg Secondary. I can see it happening pre-1995, but now?

    I reckon if there is a parent that is that disconnected from the real world that the possibility of developing the talent has not occurred to him/her (we all know rugby moms like that), then it’s equally likely that he hasn’t seen a rugby ball.

    That sort of talent doesn’t make it to Grade 11 without being noticed, so a kid joining at the end of grade 10, grade 11, or …. say arriving in a new province and repeating Grade 10 or Grade 11, doesn’t happen in the way you describe, unless it’s an alien landing. Or from Denmark and Holland, and that’s also not a random suggestion from an unconnected person.

    I’m not going to pay any attention to the recruitment debate any more. Those that recruit wholesale will carry on doing it and spin-doctor it away, no amount of discussion here will make a difference. Schools can only play who is put in front of them, regulate with things like the HMA, and hope that everyone plays by the spirit of the rules. If they don’t, have a decent shower after the match, it’s possible to wash it off no matter who you’ve just wrestled with.

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  72. @Ploegskaar: It sounds like your example is significantly different to BHP’s one. In your case Who got the ball rolling scores a zero based on the school having no influence whatsoever in the initial decision making,

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  73. @Gungets Tuft – I think you are right. Debating the recruitment issue is dead and buried. However, it is important to give context to results. Having a scorecard is like using the handicap system in golf.
    My observation is that the schools most guilty of recruiting or also the schools most obsessed with results. The scorecard will probably reflect this notion. Imagine if there was no handicap in golf.
    I still maintain that recruiting players after Grade 9 gives a school a huge advantage over opponents and skews results enormously.

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  74. @Gungets Tuft: In my opinion there has been a gradual shift on the blog (this “score card” case in point) towards establishing a collective wrong to accommodate and/or pacify those that keep doing it wrong. Fact remains, some schools appear here and elsewhere for the wrong reasons, and more importantly, some don’t, and that should be your only guide. So, with this in mind, my comments were made within my frame of reference, in the context of schools that I am familiar with.

    Therefore, back on earth here in the civilized WC, you will have to take my word for it that “random, unconnected, unaffiliated” means just that, any reference to gr.10/11 recruitment is irrelevant, tourists from Holland and Denmark are mostly found in the Waterfront, and Denys Hobson was our last spin-doctor in the 80’s.

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  75. @Tang: My point in not debating this any more is just that the schools that do it are unrepentant anyway. Unless all other schools put up a united front and just refuse to play, nothing will happen. The recruiting schools will take a subtle moral high ground, claiming that the opposition are unprofessional themselves, or just “scared”, and find other opponents. That’s where all the talk of a “super league” comes in. The schools that will play do so because they are never the “victims”, losing players to the recruiters – but you do see the likes of Selbourne now making a stand.

    @Ploegskaar: I’m not advocating that we just let it go, but we need to stop huffing and puffing and actually blow the house down, or we need to just move on. Recruiting schools are not getting a sanction worth a damn, so they carry on. Ask Selbourne about 2 more players – cricket this time – who will turn out for KZN schools this term, apparently repeating Grade 10 and Grade 11 respectively.

    Schools like Glenwood also do have a point, when they get continually clubbed like red-haired step-children, when north of the Mgeni there is a Barbarians team in the making. Is it just because nobody see’s them as a threat that they can escape scrutiny, or because they manage to find loopholes int he HMA, just as Glenwood (and other schools) do.

    All I am trying to say is – if all we are going to do is rage against the machine, but not pull the plug, then there’s no new dabate, just the tired old one. All that will be left is the schools who value their reputation and the desire to turn out the whole man, one of those things being that loyalty and effort gets rewarded (and not cast aside because a shortcoming gets filled by outside recruitment). I know that people say this echo’s real work life, but so does death and taxes – when that time comes, but we don’t force that on schoolkids before it’s time.

    I enjoyed the movie (Groundhog Day) but I am not going to play a bit part in the remake esor. Gnome sane?

    Now – work, got bills to pay and the roads are looking particulary promising today.

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  76. @beet: I am talking about Gr 7 recruitment here….with 800 applicants applying for 100 places…being invited to apply implies that you might be more successful than the next guy…but you will have to pay your own way once accepted. That is the norm with the environment I am familiar with.

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  77. @BoishaaiPa: There is no “old high school”
    when Gr.7’s apply. It’s a zero on the scorecard and therefore a “Good” recruitment.

    This scorecard is for high school to high school transfers

    I will make this clear in the exceptions

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  78. @beet: Having read Die Rapport this morning, Potch Gimmies would probably not be al the lower end. Without all the facts, it seems Fochville is peeved off with Potch Gim after a number of learners were lured away

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  79. @kosie: :twisted: For my own selfish desires for the blog YES! But one cannot deny an alma mater the right to show his support for a great school :)

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  80. @beet: Point taken, noted and accepted. Sacrilege springs to mind had the request been contemplated! Thanks once again.

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  81. @beet – When do you plan to publish the list/ findings? Do you plan to publish the findings?
    Would really like to see Kynoch NK’s score. Based on the scoring criteria and my limited understanding of Kynoch’s recruitment, I have them scored as a 35 to 40 – This places them in the Fugly category (but this is my opinion and scoring – it is not official).
    If you add the over age allegations to the recruitment scoring, they actually go beyond Fugly.
    I hope I am not breaking house rules by having a go at Kynoch, I just think it is high time the truth about some of the tactics to win and be invited to tournaments such as Wildeklawer are made public. :!:

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  82. @Tang: You must understand that Wildeklawer is an onion business based in Kimberley. Therefore the two Kimberley schools will always be invited. Obviously the KBY schools want to be competitive against the top schools in SA. The murky onion business may cloud the vision in this regard and otherwise unacceptable behaviour may be lost in the haze

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  83. @Kosie: True, but most of the onions are sold outside the borders of Kimberley. So, if onions sold is the criteria, then maybe a twentieth of a team from KBY should be invited. But, if the place of onion growth is the criteria, no other team outside the borders of KBY should be invited. :mrgreen:

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