Westville who already have tremendous rugby depth in their open age group welcomed two new and very talented under-16 players from Hudson Park in East London into the fold late last year. Both boys were part of the highly successful Border 2013 Grant Khomo team that went through the under-16 tournament unbeaten, including defeating the always competitive Free State along the way.
These recruitments have not to go down well in the Eastern Cape. A positive movement to stop so called “poaching” has started to gain a lot of momentum in the Border region, where young players from less privileged backgrounds are increasingly becoming the targets of two separate entities from other provinces: upmarket schools and richer rugby unions. When the two form an alliance it is almost impossible for a stand-alone smaller school to repel the combined effort. However on this point about unions and schools working together, although a Hudson Park representative pointed to a connection between a scout working for Westville having ties to the Bulls, there is no evidence to prove that Westville worked with the Bulls to acquire the two players and the existence connection has even been denied.
The end result is the same though. A school like Hudson Park that initially identified and nurtured the up and coming talent is robbed of the benefit of having a star player represent their 1st XV and maybe even having their school name associated with higher honours that the player might achieve later on in his rugby career.
Hudson Park don’t believe they are a development rugby school either. They produced the Ndungane twins, 2 SA Schools players, as well as SA Seven’s players Dale Heidtmann and Vuyo Zanqa. The fact that there is interest in their current players suggests that they are doing a lot of things right in their rugby programme.
Hudson Park’s views as put forward by a representative
Going by Hudson Park’s version of events there are strong indications that the actions of Westville officials were not that honourable in what has transpired.
Hudson Park officials were aware that the progress of their players would be tracked at Grant Khomo Week 2013. Ahead of the tournament, they therefore gave their boys an undertaking to discuss any approaches made with them. An older brother of one of the players had even been the school’s 1st XV captain in the past and the school had helped out his family from time to time. Hudson Park officials have now arrived at the conclusion that the two boys in question had been encouraged to cover up and even lie if they had to, in order to protect the truth about their moves to Westville from coming out.
According to a Hudson Park official during 2013 the school found out about Westville’s attempts to recruit the players. They contacted an official at Westville and were given assurances that efforts to bring the boys to the Durban school would not happen on his watch. This was later likened to a type of smokescreen to divert attention away from WBHS while the deal was being completed.
Finally perhaps the most surprising based on Westville’s outstanding academic achievements over the years, is that according to Hudson Park by the start of January 2014, Westville hadn’t contacted Hudson Park regarding school fees or disciplinary records and neither had any transfer forms been requested or signed. The players were already at Westville by late 2013.
Westville’s views as put forward by a representative
Even before Westville made an approach, the boys wanted to leave Hudson Park and were looking for alternatives. If they did not move to Westville, they would have in all likelihood joined a different school. (Hudson Park disagree with this stance even stating that the parents of the player that the school had helped was far behind with his school fees and really could not afford to leave).
The parents and not the players themselves were approached by Westville. The parents and their sons were offered an opportunity. The parents made the decisions.
The boys were never encouraged to lie about anything but rather to not talk about the matter for prudent reasons.
The boys were recruited to help improve depth in case of injuries at Westville.
Mention was made that other schools like DHS and Glenwood have also been active in the after Grade 8 recruitment market for this 2014 year. (On this matter, just about every top KZN rugby school’s 1st XV will run out with players that joined their school since the beginning of 2013).
As mentioned above Westville’s representative confirmed that the Bulls played no part in bringing the boys to KZN.
Three things to remember in closing:
1. The aim of this blog is to highlight an issue of concern and hopefully get some meaningful dialogue going which in turn will hopefully result in a better understanding of the matter and who knows maybe even contribute to a viable solution.
2. As far as school rugby is concerned, Westville actions do not contravene any rules.
3. No matter what side of the argument one chooses on this issue the fact remains that decisions arrived at by parents and guardians made in the best interests of their boys overrides all and even if we disagree with methods employed by parties involved, we have to respect their final decisions.
Interesting DHS now have some wonga to bring in the best; http://www.durbanhighschool.co.za/content/news/News_Item.asp?content_ID=1132&utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook
@Djou: I think a lot of reasons for the boys wanting to leave. But must also add the mentioned boys were looking for the past two years for other homes in Pta but were declined. They were part of Eldoraign’s/Bulls active placing of players a few years ago. Once a mercenary …………………………?
@QC86: I can tell you this, Mr Winnaar is a wanted man everywhere, but my information is that he is a home boy, won’t be going anywhere.
As for the Dale boys – sheesh, how do you hide kids?
{idly tjekking around forum .. } .. who’s missing …
@Queenian: The under 14s will be ok.A number of the boys from last year’s Super Under 13s are back. I expect the under 15s and 16s to struggle.This is purely based on last year’s results.
@QC86: That would be tragic!
@Playa: What Dale under 14/15/16 looking like this year.
@Playa: Let me guess,Winnaar and Kuse and maybe the scrumhalf,those were the players Gungets man was talking to,lets wait and see.
@Queenian: I don’t have the names. Will let you know once I know
@Roger: Yep, it was in 2011
It was a great feat indeed.
Just as a correction, the boys that have gone missing were under 15 and under 16 players, and not from the 1st Xv
@Playa: That is shocking who are the 3 players my blood boils and my blood pressure sky rockets when I hear things like this.
@Westers: 100%,say no more,if only all bloggers were that clear thinking.If we as parents and old boys showed our dis-pleasure for this practice it would stop.
@Grasshopper: Agree-Fair game up to grade 7 then leave well alone. It does not leave a good taste in the mouth when a boy who has played his butt off for the u14’s,15’s and 16’s to be replaced at the last minute,robbing him of a deserved 1st team place when he gets to grade 12.
At Kearsney ,as at the other 2 privates, the majority of the boys start in grade 8 together and compete against each other for places without the fear of geing replaced by an influx of boys to bolster the ranks where there are perceived short comings. We do have the odd boy joining because of parents transfers etc but that in the exception.
James Tedder joined from St.Charles but Clive is an ex-headboy at Kearsney and with all the other Tedder boys at the school ,it was a no brainer.
@Grasshopper: Agree with Stars comments above. I don’t condone it at all. The school has enough depth in numbers – intake this year to G8 in the region of 250 I believe.
I don’t know the facts but I am not in favour of it at all. Once I have the facts I will certainly make my views known to the powers that be at Westville. No hypocrisy from my side Grassy. It is wrong.
@Grasshopper: Ask Tjoppa to explain the problems at Eldoraigne. He is more familiar with the situation there – as lots of boys want to leave Eldoraigne at this point.
A general issue: The grass always seems greener, but sometimes it is not. Lets see if the boys are happy at Westville. If not, they will return. In any case, it is not as if Hudson Park or any school own the boys or have a property right over children just because they started their schooling there.
@Gungets Tuft: mate, the unhappiness at Eldoraigne is not my kettle of fish, not sure why. Maybe their rugby structure is not professional enough due to the school being co-ed. Maybe having girls around is distracting, maybe the Sharks have offered them contracts….all finger sucking to be honest, it’s just what I heard….grapevines do funny things. Anyway, my position is no to recruitment after grade 8. Go wild there, give our 250 bursaries, but not after….need to take my OCD meds too…
@QC86: Then things may have changed in that area. From when I remember, in places like Mdantsane, Zwelitsha and even rural Transkei, there were many schools where rugby was played. But this is going back a while and things may have changed a bit. It certainly still applies in those other areas. In Jhb, Pta, Bloem and Durban, rugby is non existant outside the private and previous “model C ” schools. Grey has a substantial body of “black” learners and they have a choice- soccer or rugby and 99% choose soccer.
@Roger: No, the phenomenal Hudson u14 team would be u16 this year.
@Grasshopper: But justify is exactly what you did, them being unhappy at Eldoraigne (sp), so they up and move to an “English medium” school in Durban. I can see why they would rather do that than change the bus they take every morning.
Boet, I am not picking on you, but you do say the funniest things, or say the serious stuff in such a funny way that my OCD just cannot let it pass. I apologize, I will up my medication ….
@deecee: Water polo has been contributing since about 2008 in Durban when Clifton started offering 100% scholarships to promising boys. They didn’t get to the top in SA being lucky.
@Gungets Tuft: Gouws who left for Hilton’s brother is still at Glenwood, surely a financial deal or both would be there. For the 700th time, I don’t like poaching, buying what ever you call it after grade 8 at any school. I hate it at Glenwood and have told TK and the old boys chairman my thoughts. So I don’t want to justify any move…..
If this true it makes a mockery of the Public boys schools agreement. It is high time schools come out and state the truth. Schools who continually recruit higher up the school in the name of rugby results should be left out in the rugby wilderness. Elite programmes, academies etc at schools are being used to entice talented kids away from their own homes and schools that have given up a great deal of time to develop them. I guess they are paying their own way Westville?? If not who is??? No problem with kids who move schools at their own expense or because their parents relocate. Problem is this is not limited to rugby. Waterpolo now contributing to this phenomenon. See quite a bit of movement recently number of Gauteng boys now boarding at a school in the bluff all due to elite waterpolo academy!!!! Let’s see what happens when Brad Rowe starts at Westville……
@Grasshopper: Haha, and I am a vegetarian because I only eat meat from depressed suicidal cows that literally ran onto the abattoir truck.
Surely we can assume that every boy that moves is unhappy, relative to the offer being made. If they are happier where they are they wouldn’t move, yes?
Not querying that they moved, I do love your justifications though, the way you exclude the possibility that the boys that left Glenwood might just have been happier at Hilton etc.
@Grasshopper: So who got poached to bring in Coetsee, Tredoux, Potgieter etc?
I didn’t realize how bad your losses had been?
@Playa: so Jho was part of the six that was “targeted” by Spilhaus – interesting.
I am very glad that episode is behind us – there was a limited upside for KES and they very quickly nipped it in the bud – good on them.
Dale’s best repsonse was putting one over KES in 2010 or 2011 at the Grey festival. Apparently the boys were well chuffed to win that one
Perhaps the three missing boys will turn up in Durban
@Roger: Mjekevu and Esterhuizen came in Grade 10. Ntubeni in Grade 11. Jho matriculated in 2010.
In related news. I have just been told that 3 of Dale’s 1st team players from last year did not return this year…no one knows where they’ve gone.
@QC86: I think you will find that the parent (if it is who I think it was) had a boy playing for KZN and is an ex-Border provincial player himself. Catching up with old mates perhaps??? … so unless you actually sat in on “interviews” perhaps you’re overstating the case. If College were going recruiting they would probably send a staff member or coach?
@Playa: Correct – Daniel Eyre, apologies. What grade were Ntubeni, Mjekevu and Esterhuizen? I was under the impression they all joined in grade 10?
When did Andile Jho matriculate?
@Roger: That was Daniel Eyre. And they went to KES in their Grade 11 year.His brothers Nick and Chris finished at Dale (their father is an Old Dalian as well). Ruiters and Eyre were 2nd team players in their Grade 10 year.
In as much as one or 2 players went there willingly, I have it on good authority that Andile Jho was even offered a contract and bursary by the Lions to go to KES but declined it. However, there is no solid proof of KES’s involvement in that failed transaction. Bygones to us now though. It was a lesson learnt, and Dale and KES now enjoy a healthy relationship.
@star: Yes, two grade 10 Under 17 kids from Eldoraigne is what I heard and they were not happy at Eldoraigne. A no8 and not sure the other. Not sure if they will even play 1st or 2nd team, so it was not a buy in for a 1st team position. They both played Bulls Under16B…
@Roger: OK, I apologise for that statement, it was said in jest but obviously not taken that way.
@Bwana: Funny Bwana, I think the relationship between College and Glenwood is actually a very good one, hence being chosen to play the special 150th Reunion day game and two games a year. Yes, Glenwood have been wise and recruited wisely at grade 8 level from around the country since 2000. This is perfectly legit. It only went sour with Marne-gate in 2012, so to say ‘poaching’ players has been happening for years is incorrect. There have been a few others since, Warren Potgieter and a couple of others. Glenwood (AKA Dockside High) has learnt their lesson and now recruiting at the latest in grade 10. They have in fact lost 2 or 3 provincial players to your whiter than white midland schools, Hilton in particular. Glenwood have taken the brunt of all this and it’s uncalled for really, especially when others are doing it too. Glenwood bring in immense talent in grade 8 and only recruit in positions of weakness if other schools poach players from them…
@Bwana: Please explain how a parent can recruit in his/her own capacity.
@QC86 was the parent acting on behalf of the school or was it in his/her private capacity? If so then that is quite serious and interesting. Not on my high horse just yet!
@Gungets Tuft: i don’t think any parent or school boy rugby player has seen Border as a possible employer for 10 years,but yes i get your point
@Bwana: hey boet i spent 3 days at Grant Khomo with a parent from your school that was actively scouting and having interviews with Border players,so don’t you get on that high horse just yet.
@BoishaaiPa: you may be right – she was at pains to point out that it was her son’s choice and no-one had pushed him either way. Of the six boys who moved – Ntubeni and Mjkevu have done really well and Ntleki is playing for the Kings, not sure how the others have fared.
@Roger I have been following this blog for a while and have noticed too how Grasshopper always mentions his standing in the digital market. Any data can be skewed by anybody looking for something to back up their argument.
What Mr Hopper seems to forget is that his beloved Alma Mater from there adjacent to the docks has been poaching for years from all over the country. I am of the understanding that the boys in green have been spotted fishing in the catchment area of Affies. Yes KES have done it before but as you correctly state it was a once off. The win at all costs mindset of Durban’s so-called finest is making the Sharks schoolboy setup the laughing stock to the rest of SA. It is funny how the traditional schools in the Midlands are not being brought into this mudslinging match. No wonder schools like Affies, Grey, KES and Boys High speak so highly of their interchanges with College. Long may like-minded schools keep up these quality ties.
@QC86: Agree they have little contact, but the unions are the ones that will employ them later. The EC and Border don’t strike me as reputable employers …
CW is the prospective professional rugby players first “interview”, so to be denied the opportunity to showcase your skills is a big deal. I think it was Border that denied kids that chance last year, without thinking what the effect would be. We debated it here and predicted an exodus.
I am all against poaching which compromises the integrities of schools, players and parents alike. For the record Westville played Hudson Park last year as U16s at Skonk and comfortably beat them. To be honest it is not as if someone jumped out during the match or that there are serious deficiencies in the Westville team. While watching the GW match the two boys came to watch- a white boy who is a prop and a black boy who looks to be lock/loose forward. Obviously a lot is being said from both camps which might be putting undue pressure on the kids and should stop. I really need to do a bit of homework to comment further. It must however be remembered that Westville are certainly not a big recruiter from outside the province( possibly the first 2) and other schools have been doing it for years. Does GW not currently have 2 CW players who arrived in grade 10 from Pretoria? I do not remember any comment in that regard. Maybe it is because the EC region has reached a tipping point and wants to put a marker down. The spectre of a unions involvement also does not help matters and muddies the waters. For the record as Beet says Westville have not contravened any rules and therefore there is no theoretical hypocrisy. However it must be remembered that the spirit of any agreement overrides the letter. To tick boxes just ignores the big picture. We lost a very good scrumhalf in that manner.
@ Roger- Westville does have residential homes that provide boarding facilities.
@Grasshopper: Ahem Hopper – I was referring to this statement of yours…..”…..might as well have been KES they have shopped there for decades… ”
Factually incorrect and once again an example of you pulling information from your proverbial to suit your argument. As someone who constantly reminds all bloggers on here of your standing in the digital media planning and online intelligence space you have a nasty habit of making wild unsabstantiated comments (refer your comments on the other thread re: cricket). Admit you were wrong here and move on – otherwise provide facts to back up your argument.
@Gungets Tuft: A kid at school has virtually no contact with the union,so i don’t see that as a reason, and those guys you say have concussions need to have brains before they can get one.LOL
@BOG: I don’t think the reason you talk about is solvable,but as i said above lets set a standard and stick to it.Bog i don’t fully agree with you on the Eastern Cape soccer playing story.All rural and township schools only play soccer,it is only the old model c schools that play and many of them now offer both.As for rugby playing school boy numbers i think KZN will have far more than EC.It boils down to win at all costs,sadly
@BOG: It’s not just quotas. Its the diabolical stuff up of those home unions as well. I could dig up the articles but we all know about kids left without contracts in the EC, kids prevented from playing CW because they contracted out of the province. The people heading up the unions have obviously had one too many concussions if they fail to see the unintended consequence of their actions.
If someone told me, or my son, that the only realistic way I could pursue my career of choice after school was to change schools, I would be negligent if I didn’t think about it. If that school is out of province, I just think more carefully …
@Roger: no Roger, don’t get your panties in a twist. We all know Bobo went to Bosch. I mentioned him in general as a high profile player recruited from EC…don’t get anal. There are tons of spelling, grammar and other mistakes that people ignore. I forgot to put Bosch in brackets…sue me!
@QC86: And the few regions where rugby is first choice for “black/coloured/blue”, namely Border/EC, SWD, Boland and WP, will be the targets for poachers, while the poachers will come from regions where the first choice of those groups, are sports other than rugby. Why do we continue to discuss this matter which will continue until the cause is resolved ?
@Roger: I agree with you 100% .Rodger i think it is very important that us as bloggers,parents and fans agree to what is acceptable and what is not,and then voice our feelings to anybody that strays.I had a Border scout type oke tell me the other day he wants to move a very good center from Dale to Selborne,and my response was that if Selborne has all the good players who were we going to play against every week,he had never thought about it like that.
@Roger: It was Nick Ayre’s mom that was on R365…Remember it well!
@QC86: I agree with you 100% – and to KES’s credit they recognized that fact and it has never happened again. Will you admit that
KZN is obviously a very different market and I would not second guess schools management because they obviously believe they are acting in the best interests of their school. Perhaps they should be more open about the fact that they will recruit and give reasons why they believe it is in the best interests of the school and individuals concerned
@Roger: You refute the fact that it was the biggest ever exodus of players ever to take place at one time,and like i said very justifiable,conveniently.Just admit, it should never have happened.AMEN
@BOG: Quite right,quotas at all provincial rugby weeks leads to regions getting players in behind the scene.
@QC86: I did not say Fennel was not involved (obviously Spilhaus was) – what I said was that the circumstances were very different to the active ongoing recruitment that happens now led by schools with agents and scouts etc. It was a once-off by KES driven in part by a newly appointed coach. Once again – I challenge you to refute those facts and provide any examples of KES recruiting in the EC.
If I remember correctly even Senna Esterhuizen’s mother was on R365 explaining the reasons for moving her son to KES.
Playa will back me up on this – he was peeved at the time (as were most of the Dale community) – but it has not happened again
I find it amazing that when one’s own school buys or is involved in obtaining players then it seems to be justifiable.Rodger the then head of KES should have looked at it and turned it down,there is no way Spilhaus acted alone or without somebodies blessing.Like you said tho, water under the bridge.
@Grasshopper: Not sure if they are previously or presently disadvantaged, but according to Queenian, they are from Mdantsane. I have seen some palaces there, so Im not convinced that that should qualify them as disadvantaged. Some “disadvantaged” live in Bunkers Hill. My point is that its senseless to continuously discuss poaching, while the causes are being avoided.
@Grasshopper: no Hopper – Bobo went to Rondebosch. Apologise for the mistake and move on without making unfounded and factually incorrect statements and casting aspersions that cannot be backed up by fact
@Queenian: @Grasshopper: Lonwabo Ntleki (grade 9) Senna Esterhuizen, Nick Ayre (not quite quotas are they) Scarra Ntubeni, Wandile Mjekevu and Lucien Ruiters (all grade 10) elected to attend KES and follow Carl Spilhaus when he was recruited by Mike Fennel in 2007. This was debated ad nauseam on R365 at the time. However, there is a major difference between those boys then and the current active recruiting done in the EC by KZN schools (paticularly the DBN big three of Westville, Glenwood and DHS) now. Those boys elected and were encouraged by their coach to follow him – there were no agents or scouts involved and KES have not dabbled in that market since. It was a once off following the appointment of a coach. I challenge you to refute that statement with facts.
I am not saying any of those boys did not receive some form of a scholarship from KES but the circumstances were very very different from those described in this article.
@RBugger: Yes, I didn’t make it clear…..was just saying he was poached from the region too…..might as well have been KES they have shopped there for decades…
Bobo was taken by Rondebosch – not KES
KES have done there share of this as well.
Where is Star, Westers and Rhino to comment?
@Grasshopper: Yes they are kids from Mdanstane outside East London so I would say disadvantaged.
@Roger: Ripe coming from KES, who were the biggest instigators of them all a few years back. About 7 boys ‘suddenly’ arrived from the EC. Scarra Ntubeni certainly is not KES created……same can be said for Ngobani Bobo etc. There are alot of fingers being pointed at the moment and lots of angst’s amongst the schools, parents and supporters, something serious needs to be done here..
@Mike: Agree with you when kids go from one school between Grade 7 and 8 I can accept that although its not good but when kids get taken in Grade 10/11/12 there is no excuse for it and as much as I don’t think Westville are a bad school they should not have got involved in this its a disgrace also there is know excuse like these kids fathers were Westville Old Boys or something.
@BOG: Are we sure these two are ‘previously disadvantaged’ kids?
This is shocking to say the least and not the only one.
Beet I send you the details of the Muir/Noord Kaap saga please put the article up as well.
@Roger: I say again- QUOTAS. In the Border , rugby is first choice of “black” kids, and in KZN, its NOT !! You cannot discuss lung cancer without discussing smoking. Begin with the CAUSES, and then the consequences
Is this really necessary from a school that fields 26 rugby teams?
Also would be disheartening for a couple youngsters that may loose their places, – after possibly applying themselves since Gr8.
didnt Hudson Park have a phenomenal u14 team a couple of years back – I remember them drilling everyone at the Skonk festival. These kids were probably in that team. Vleis will remember?
Didn’t Westville sign the “anti-poaching” declaration in conjunction with all the other top Boys schools at the end of the 2013 season?
serously – why do all these KZN schools feel the need to going recruiting in the Eastern Cape. KZN is the 2nd most populous province in the country – are you telling me there is not enough talent there? I can understand if talented kids want to get away from the mess that is the Border Rugby Union – but then go to Grey High etc. Doesn’t make sense to me.
Does Westville have a boarding house – where will these kids be accomodated?
Finally – the parents need to think more clearly – the grass is not always greener – especially 1000km from home. Hudosn Park have been done a dirty here – no doubt
SBR seems to be becoming all to professional and ugly! Old Boys need to get involved to build pride in one’s school, building an atmosphere whereby you never want to leave.
I must be honest I don’t buy Westvilles version of events. Maybe the one part I’m inclined to believe is that the two boys wanted to leave Hudson Park. This often happens when talented sportsman get ahead of themselves and start to believe they are too good for the school they are currently in, and that the grass is greener on the other side, which is often not the case. This was happening at Grey High with the likes of Jan Serfontein and Stephen Rautenbach a few years ago moving to Bloem (a good move for them in the end). Even so,a scout would have approached these boys initially not having a clue if they were unhappy or not. What they saw on the Border team sheet was that they two boys were from a lesser known rugby school, and that was the opportunity. Having said that, Hudson Park is certainly not a development school in any way, shape or form and I do feel sorry for them. Hudson has a junior school, and usually all the talent in the u13s moves across to Selborne in grade 8. So they have to hang on to what is left. Now you have other schools acquiring probably their two star players. I’m sure this is not a reflection of Westville as a whole though.
@BOG: Agreed, but is scarier is the Bulls now have their fingers in another pie via Westville…..why would they want KZN talent when they have SA Schools players on the bench…
Scrum Doctor – on the button !!
This stinks of gross hypocrisy especially the fuss Westville made about
Glenwoods Imports over the past 2 years
definitely win at all costs scenario but then this applies to most tier 1 Schools doesn’t it ??
And the cause? Quotas ! In the Border, EC region, rugby is first choice for boys (who are “not peach coloured) while in KZN, the first choice is soccer. No use debating the consequences while ignoring the causes. Simple
Tut tut Westville….but officially the headmasters ageement in KZN allows them to play here. I doubt it’s in line with the Gov school agreement signed last year. Seems we have pots calling kettles black here…
After all the fuss with Glenwood last year about agreements and the like I would have thought it pertinent to keep ones nose very clean in this regard . With approx. 1300 boys to chose from I cannot see the reason for this . Seems like winning at rugby is becoming more important than anything else ??
What is the point of taking kids out of a A GRADE school and moving them to another A GRADE school.Brainless if you ask me.KZN has millions of Zulu’s get off your asses and go find talent that’s why it’s called development, dah