After Gauteng raced into a 4-0 lead thanks to outstanding efforts by St Davids and St Albans, KZN’s Northwood spearheaded by their frontrow trio put a spirited fightback to come from 11-3 down at home to beat a gutsy St Benedicts team. Westville backed up this first win in the compo with a very meaningful home result of their own against a strong Pretoria Boys High outfit. At 4-2 and with many feeling that the tail end of this compo will favour the KZN schools, it makes this weekend’s two games tie-breakers of sorts. If the Gauteng home teams KES and Parktown can lift themselves and record wins against Westville and DHS respectively, it will see Gauteng claim the inaugural Grogper Cup and the bragging rights that go hand in hand with victory.
Grogper Cup 2013
| DATE | SCHOOL | SCHOOL | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 16/03/13 | St Davids | 17 | 6 | St Charles |
| 01/04/13 | St Albans | 26 | 25 | Hilton |
| 13/04/13 | Pretoria BH | 25 | 23 | M. College |
| 13/04/13 | Jeppe | 33 | 24 | Northwood |
| 15/04/13 | Northwood | 15 | 11 | St Benedicts |
| 20/04/13 | Westville | 22 | 17 | Pretoria BH |
| 04/05/13 | KES | 16 | 22 | Westville |
| 04/05/13 | Parktown | 33 | 5 | DHS |
| 18/05/13 | M. College | KES | ||
| 18/05/13 | St Stithians | Kearsney | ||
| 25/05/13 | St Johns | Michaelhouse | ||
| 27/07/13 | M. College | Pretoria BH |
Looks like the Grogper Cup is going down to the wire. Gauteng schools are six to three ahead; however, my predictions for the remaining matches are:
– M College v KES: a comfortable win for Natal.
– Saints v Kearsney: a comprehensive win for Natal – at least Innocent will be back though.
– St Johns v House: a probable win for Natal.
– M College v PBH: close one, but I think Natal will sneak it.
So, it looks like the Natal schools might pull off a seven to six come-from-behind victory, with the final game between MC and PBHS determining the fate of the cup….unless the Monnas v GW fixture on 1 June is added.
@Tang: That is why it’s limited to English speaking schools, doh!
@Grasshopper What about if Gauteng added Monnas, Affies, Waterkloof, Garsfontein, Helpmekaar, EG Jansen, Kempton Park. Centruion, Menlo Park, etc? I doubt the trophy would ever go to KZN.
@Vleis: Thanks Vleis
Re Glenwood Prep is seems the best from there get snapped up by other schools and Penzance being co-ed only supplies about 50 boys of whom maybe a third play rugby. The key feeder area for Glenwood is the Bluff (circa 30 boys), Toti (circa 30 boys) and Quensburgh/Chatsworth (circa 80 boys) and finally the rest of KZN in the BE……probably not exact but close to it. I would say out of about 6 Under14 rugby sides maybe 30% have played rugby previously…..
@Grasshopper: I’d be surprised if GW Prep and Penzance are not the biggest feeder schools for GW as: a) they are both reasonably large prep schools; and b) they are the only primary schools (without a high school) in Glenwood – have a look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenwood,_KwaZulu-Natal.
Yes, my son attended a private school, but the above mentioned prep schools are not private and neither is the mighty DPHS, so I’m not sure if that is a relevant point in this debate.
Anyway, I’m also bored now. On a positive note, I thought that your article on Glenwood on the other blog was very good. Your passion for your Alma Mater is commendable.
@Vleis: funny enough Penzance and Glenwood Prep are not Glenwood’s biggest feeder schools, schools from the Bluff, Toti, Queensburgh, chatsworth, Pinetown etc are and none of them play rugby. Anyway, you seem to know more about the areas I come from. I don’t care about winning an argument it just needs to be correct. All the schools you mention are affluent schools, Glenwood’s majority are middle class. Obviously your sons school is private or from an affluent area as those schools you mention are exactly that. Anyway, bored now…
@beet: Thanks Beet – a mine of useless info!
@Grasshopper: It is irrelevant whether the regions are concentrated or not – if there are 3m kids in Gauteng and 3.5m kids in Natal, they need to go to school. Two of your top schools are in very remote areas. I’m not sure whether there are more kids playing rugby in Gauteng v Natal, but I’m fairly confident that there are less english speaking kids playing rugby in Gauteng. Anyway, let’s agree to disagree on this one.
Re primary schools: my son’s primary school (one of the 26 out of 30 schools that do not play rugby in his district) went on cricket tours to Natal in 2010 and 2011…and every single school that they played against also played rugby. Now that is not just a statistical anomaly – the schools were: Crawford North Coast (FYI – none of the Crawfords play rugby in primary school in Jhb); Umhlanga College; Highbury Prep; St Charles Prep and Clifton Notties. I’m not sure how you can say that most of Glenwood’s feeder schools play soccer when the two biggeset feeeder schools (that must supply the bulk of your boys) Penzance and Glenwood Prep most certainly play rugby – the latter even hosts a large national rugby festival every year!! Also, you seem to secure a few from DPHS that plays very good rugby, not to mention the Freestaters on scholarship! Grassy, somethimes I think you make things up just to win an argument.
On a lighter note, although my son’s primary school only had 31 boys in their grade and didn’t play rugby, they nevertheless had five ‘old boys’ on the pitch a few weeks ago when St Alban’s u15 played Hilton u15 – two for Hilton and 3 for St Alban’s.
@Vleis: That is very interesting.
@Vleis: OK, then population concentration then, people per square kilometer, it’s far higher in Gauteng. Anyway, you get my drift, far more people who can afford this sort of education in Gauteng. KZN is so small in numbers playing rugby it’s probably less than 15,000 boys playing regular rugby across the whole province. As for primary schools playing rugby, yes the top 10 to 20 may play rugby but the majority play soccer. For Glenwood the majority of their feeder schools play soccer……
@Grasshopper: Grassy, your stats are not correct. The population of Gauteng (excl. the Falke region, which is not in the Grogper) is 9,093,793, while the population of Natal is 10,267,300. Check it out on the web if you do not believe me.
Re the primary school rugby, you are again way, way, way off the mark. Times have changed since your days chum. I had this debate on the Rugby365 board with AndreT and am not inclined to do the research again. That said, in short, in the Jhb Far North district (where far more rugby is played by English schools than in Jhb south) there are some 30 english schools: none play rugby from a young age, about four play from grade 6 and 24 play no rugby at all. In Natal, my research indicated that most schools (i.e. more than half of the schools that I researched) play rugby. I challenge you to find even five english schools in Jhb that play rugby from a young age. I don’t even know the schools in Natal, but could nevertheless list twenty schools that play rugby from a young age without breaking a sweat.
@Vleis: Yes, happy to include Monnas vs Glenwood in the Grogper, sounds good. As for Gauteng schools competing it’s called population, much bigger in Gauteng. KZN and Durban has a much smaller population circa 2 million is Durban and surrounds vs 10 million plus in JHB/Pretoria. The majority of KZN primary schools play soccer and not rugby so that theory is also thrown out the window, I was one of those green horn rugby players in grade 8 (2nd form)….
@star: Well, someone has to take over teasing Grassy now that Roger has gone into hiding!
We could include the Glenwood v Monnas game in the Grogper cup as Monnas is a parallel medium school – i.e. Eng & Afr. That might keep Grassy happy?
To be honest, I’m surprised that the Gauteng soutie schools are providing such stiff opposition given the major disadvantages that they have over the Natal schools, namely:
beat the Natal A team.
1. Almost all of the top rugby players in Natal go to an english school, whereas most of the top rugby players in Gauteng do not go to english schools.
2. Most english Gauteng primary schools play no rugby, while some play limited rugby from Grade 6 and a tiny minority play rugby the whole way through. Apart from the disadvantage due to the very late start in rugby, many talented boys do not switch over to rugby, as they have developed a passion for football – in the 2011 u13 provincial football week, the Gauteng A, B and C teams
@ Vleis- do not upset Grassy- I have to take his side this time for obvious reasons.
@ Beet-that means that we have to just win the last 4 matches. Goldstones to be the fortress for KZN . I did have the Kearsney v St Stithians and MHS v St Johns games as bankers. Not so sure about House now though.
@Vleis: I’m not complaining about the 5 weeks but what you say about arranging fixtures makes sense. Plus playing a midweek game after a 1200km round trip on the Saturday isn’t the best way to go about things especially if all your other Wednesdays during the season are free.
@beet: Normally, I’d be very confident of a win, but it’s an away trip and, more importantly, St Alban’s wouldn’t have played a rugby match for five weeks or even touched a rugby ball for four and a half weeks…so there could be an upset. It boggles my mind that the people who plan the season don’t ensure that the Gauteng private schools play against each other in the first week back, while we get back up to speed. It only gets worse, as St Alban’s then play Menlo a few days after St Charles.
@Vleis: There is KZN bad news closer to hand tho. It involves your team. Apparently St Charles play St Albans this coming Saturday. A 13th game that is likely to go Gauteng’s way based on current form.
@star: Actually, as GW has bought an Afrikaans 1st team, we can count their game against Garsfontein, which was a 48 to 26 win for the latter…so 6 to 3 in the Grogper?
@ Grassy- What is that about? MC play 3 games, Westville &Northwood 2 ,MHS,Hilton,DHS,St Charles,Kearsney 1. GW 0. We need you.
Also you play Hilton this weekend but even though I am a Hilton OB you have a very talented team and your destiny is in your hands. I am also a WOB and so won’t be able to be there as we will have our hands full with Kearsney. Some great local match ups this weekend.
@star: so wish Glenwood were on the Grogper cup, they would swing it KZNs way for sure…..
Well Westville has won the double header(PBHS and KES) and so can do no more. It is up to Kearsney to beat the Saints and House to beat St Johns and then MC in their 150 th year to take us home against KES and PBHS. I think a few of us might take a wander up up the highway if it comes down to the last game.
@JeppeRugbyFan: Wow, 6 weeks means that he is almost out for the entire season.
Gibbs’ son was sitting with the bench in his rugby kit – boots and all – which is why I’m confused.
What a pity for KES to lose two backline players of such high quality in a season when then can least afford same. KES’ backline is well drilled and the players give 100%; however, they are the size of u16s and do not have blinding pace. As such, KES’ performances drop off as their games hit the business end because there are only so many big hits that they can take from larger opponents before the dam wall busts. Indeed, almost all of KES’s games that I’ve watched or followed on twitter have seen them drop off in the last 15/20 minutes – e.g. against Affies, Westville, Saints and even Trinity.
Parktown’s coach is the MMA heavyweight champion of Africa, so maybe he put his boys through some ‘tough’ practice sessions recently?
@Vleis: I’m not sure if Gibbs’ son would have been on the bench because from what I know he is still injured and will be out for another few weeks. Maybe he was just there for moral support? The no.10 was opperated on, on Friday and is out for another 6 weeks.
Was also very surprised to see the Parktown vs DHS result because Parktown haven’t been having a very good season so far, so good on them for keeping the Gauteng flag flying.
Great stuff Westville Boys! That being said, KZN needs a strong DHS showing. What’s going on there?
I was surprised that Parktown thumped DHS by so much today (33 to 5) – great result for them.
I was not surprised that KES lost to Westville (22 to 16). To be honest, neither team was too impressive. Both teams had small packs, but KES had the better of the scrums and loose. The lineouts were even until about 20 mins to go when KES lost four in a row, which helped seal their fate. The KES backline was fairly slick as usual, but was extremely small and lacked a bit of pace. The Westville backs were bigger, faster and stronger than the KES backs and that ultimately cost KES the match. The KES 8 and 4 had great games. The star KES flyhalf did not play and it looked like Herschell Gibbs’ son was on the bench. Anyone know why that was the case given that he played for the dream team last year in grade 10 even? The game was mostly even, but Westville got stronger and stronger as it progressed – probably partly due KES having their smallest team in history I reckon. That said, a three tries to two away win for Westville is a good result for them – well done!
So 5 to 3 in the Grogper Cup – all set for a tight finish!
@Woltrui: It’s a pity really because he was having a really good game until the rush of blood to the head and appart from that moment of madness it was a good hard and clean game of SBR. I know our boys always look forward to the Affies fixture even though it’s one way traffic in most cases, it’s a privilage to play against one of the best in the country.
Hope Affies have a good tournament in Maritzburg, although I don’t think Framesby or Paul Roos will pose too much of a problem for them.
@JeppeRugbyFan: Thank you for feedback Jeppe. I saw on the Affies blog that Calvin is not included in the Wildeklawer tour squad. Think the Jeppe Kes game is going to be brilliant.
@Woltrui: I was at the game, and although I am no expert I thought the Affies lineouts where good even though they were pretty predictable as most of the ball, understandably went to RG. This could also have been due to the absence of the other lock (Allison), who was sent off 5 minutes before the end of the first half for kicking the Jeppe captain (Prop) in the face during a loose ruck, in plain view of the Jeppe spectators and the assistant referee who rightfully recommended the red card. I hear the school has suspended him for 2 games and he will therefore miss the Wildeklawer tournament. Well done to Affies for taking this decision and making a bold statement to the rest of the players that ill-discipline will not be tolerated.
As far as your question goes about the standout players, the centres, Jurie and Dawie were very good again as they were against KES and the scrumhalf also had a very good game. The forwards in general had a good game but the standout players for me were the hooker and No 6 although I must say, again as with KES, they don’t commit enough players to the breakdown and the ball was turned over a few times by the Jeppe pack who were a lot more effective in this area. I got the impression that the forwards don’t like to get involved in the “rough stuff” so to speak and would rather play in the backline. This could also be part of their game plan though (not sure) but personally I think by committing more players to the breakdown and securing quick possession, the backs will have more time and that is definitely when Affies look very dangerous. My man of the match was RG (lock) who was clinical in the lineouts and devastating on attack proving very difficult to bring down. He also carried the ball extremely well and scored a very good try.
@Vleis: ok boet, Glenwood is Afrikaans then…..with 80% English speaking boys and 100% English lessons. It’s like saying Durban is Afrikaans speaking because 2% of the population speak Afrikaans…..
@Grasshopper: Whadda yoo talka Italiano now? Yoo try to confusa mee…eet no work! Glenwood eesa Afrikaans…not Italiano.
@Vleis: Not sure how else to say this, Glenwood is an English medium school..capiche!
@Grasshopper: Cammon Grassy. If you include Glenwood then I’m adding Menlo Park to the Gauteng list!
@rugbyfan: agreed, Glenwood probably have 150 Afrikaans first language kids out of 1300 boys, hardly an Afrikaans school especially when all tests, exams and lessons are in English. There are probably another 300 Zulu and 150 Xhosa first language boys too. There home language can be what ever they wish, but the High and School part of Glenwood High School also indicates an English medium school. Anyway, I know it was said tongue in cheek. There are quite a few Afrikaans first language boys in the side. Many Afrikaans first language families are sending their boys to Glenwood due to the demise of most of KZN’s Afrikaans schools. There used to be two big ones on the Bluff, both gone now (Dirkie Uys and Adries Pretoruis). Also Glenwood get a lot from Northern Natal and a handful from Pretoria at grade 8 level…….also the coaches are fluent in Afrikaans so it attracts those boys….
@rugbyfan: Ye specially seen there are so many would be Queenians at GCB these days
@Grasshopper: Agree having 40 Afrikaans kids in a school of 800 does not make them Afrikaans. Same could be said of Grey Bloem were you have maybe 200 of 900 boys are English does not make it a English school.
Although must say GCB you could call biligual as all activities like asembly,s are split half/half and there early heritage has a big English part to it.
@Vleis: yeah, the same can be said for a few other KZN English sides where the taal is present. What about the 5 Zulu and Xhosa kids. The school is English and always will be even if a few kids speak another first language…..
@Woltrui: And that game being GCB
@Woltrui: I watched the 3 Affies games at MC150 and i was very impressed with them they seemed to have a well rounded team not any gaping weakness i could see they must just be carefull of the counter attack there defense seemed a bit funerable there in the game against Queens which i think they won 27-13 the last 10 min saw Queens drop some balls at crucial stages which if they had been kept in hand Affies could have been in a embrassing position as the Queens backline was all over them in that last period.
But otherwise i dont see them losing more than maybe 1 game this season.
Surprised that the KZN teams are behind at the moment.
@JeppeRugbyFan: Hi Jeppe. Did you watch the Affies Jeppe game? If you did would you mind giving some info? How was Affies lineouts? What players stood out. I heard one of Affies players was redcarded? Would appreciate the info. Thank you
@Roger: It’s a real pity about the flyhalf who seems to be battling to get back to 100% fitness and hopefully wasn’t too badly hurt on Saturday. I don’t think he finished the game against Affies on Wednesday either.
On your point regarding the backline. One of the boys playing in the backs for your 3rd side was at primary school with my son and they still play club rugby together. I’m pretty sure if he was at Jeppe he would be in contention for a spot in our 1st team even though he is only in grade 11. I wonder if some of the younger guys haven’t maybe been overlooked. Agree with you on your forwards being good, they showed good commitment against Affies even though they where significantly smaller.
hopefully the Reds can pull it off this weekend at home but smart money must be on Westville to break their ten year duck against KES – KES really struggling this year and what’s even more upsetting, its the backline that are struggling – forwards are good – backline devoid of ideas – and to cap it off – the only really classy backline player (flyhalf) walked off injured against Menlo so not sure if he is back for Westville
@star: To be honest I lost count at 11. Forgot that the NW vs SB game made it 12 games. I think Beeld Trofee rule should stand tho.
@star: No we are working on the Beeld Trofee system of who scored first to determine the winner in the event of a tie. Since that proved to be such a controversial way of determining a winner, it made perfect sense to use it here.
@ Beet Your statement that if GP win both games this weekend they will lift the inaugural cup is questionable.
Surely if KZN win the remainder of the games then it will be a tie at 6 all ( or is my Westville bush maths out). As GP had the ” home ground ” advantage then KZN should win the tie and hold the cup.
@flyparent: Good luck to DHS as well. I hope you guys can bounce back after last weeks results. Lets hope we can get this cup back on an even keel this weekend. Then we leave it up to the other KZN schools to do their bit. Safe travelling to all boys, staff and supporters.
@Grasshopper: Oi Grassy….you said the top 8 English schools…so you have to remove Glenwood from the Natal list being an Afrikaans 1st team.
Wishing all boys from DHS and Westville, travelling to Joburg this weekend, a safe trip with few injuries and good results.
Still bumbed Glenwood are not in the English schools Grogper cup, especially considering its named of myself and Roger. Glenwood used to play St Stithians annually but this ended as the results became one sided, I think the same with Westville vs Parktown. For a proper Grogper we need the top 8 English schools from each province involved so as follows:
KZN
Kearsney
Westville
Glenwood
College
Hilton
Michaelhouse
DHS
Northwood
George Campbell (reserves)
Gauteng
PBHS
KES
Jeppe
St Stithians
St Albans
St David’s
St Johns
St Benedict’s
Parktown (reserves)
If games were played annually I think the KZN sides would win most years. KES and PBHS are usually consistently strong but the others in Gauteng are up and down. I think the top 4 in KZN are stronger than the top 4 in Gauteng…..based on rankings and gut feel…
@beet: St Alban’s and KES had annual fixtures against Hilton, but both were stopped about a year ago, which is a pity. I think KES used to win three out of every four, while St Alban’s lost three out of every four. That said, this year the St Alban’s 1st team and u15A beat their Hilton counterparts, so it is a 100% success record in 2013!
Jeppe are going to be a handful for quite a few years, as their current 1st team is loaded with grade 11s and their u15 team is a top 10 in the country team. KES will be better next year than in 2013, but then they have a lot of work to do. It will be interesting to see what the new headmaster does re same.
Did you go to Kearsney Beet?
Even Jeppe has upped their game this season
I’m not going to lie to anyone. I desperately want to win this.
It’s so much easier to be modest in victory than trying to avoid coming across like a sore loser. I thought we would be put Gauteng away easily. PBHS and KES were meant to be challenges but against the likes of St Davids and St Albans, I did not see those results coming. 
Hope DHS pulls this one off. They are definitely in need of a victory right now!!
Go School
@Vleis: Common the REDS!!!!!
Although I must admit I think Westville, even at home, may be a big ask for the REDS based on their current form. I’m sure our fellow Joburger’s could still surprise us this season though (holding thumbs
)
Ha ha…nice one Beet. I may even pop over to KES to watch the crucial “tie-breaker” this weekend!
Never thought that I would say this, but ‘Go School!’…and not the DHS “School” 
I think DHS have the edge based on Parktown’s current form.