u19 Currie Cup Championship 2018 – semifinal ambitions

In a closer than the 34-24 scoreline suggests match, the Sharks completed a first ever home-and-away win double against the Bulls in u19 competition history. Last week the Sharks became the first of the 2018 teams to book a semifinal berth. Two more points from their remaining three games would secure an all-important home semi for the Durban based union’s juniors.

The Lions turn around continued with a 41-32 victory. They made it four wins from four matches when they turned the tables on Province, who beat them in the first round. The Lions now find themselves a solitary point behind the Bulls in the race for a home semi. However with EP and Leopards still to come, the Bulls are firm favourites to collect a full house of 10-points and end on 44, a number that’s mathematically impossible for the Lions to get to.

Western Province also have odds on bankable wins against EP and the Leopards coming, so good money is on them getting to at least 36 points and more if they beat the Sharks at home. That should be enough to see them into the playoffs. A home semi is out of their reach though.

The Lions are yet to secure a post season place. Their next game against Free State is a crucial one. Free State can still make the semi-finals but they will to collect close to maximum points and hope the Lions stumble very badly in their last regular season match against the Sharks, to stand any kind of chance.

Home team EP had their best result of the season, going down 19-38 to the Leopards. Given the Leopards RU’s publicised financial woes, which went as far as suggesting they would forfeit away games in the senior Currie Cup to save on travel costs, it was a welcomed relief to see that their juniors made the long trip to PE to play.

 

 

203 Comments

  1. VS het ‘n baie goeie begin gehad vir die seisoen. ‘n Paar ysters voorlangs – veral nr 4 Louw kliphard. Agterlangs was nr 12 Mollentze en 15 Williams uitblinkers. Ware toets kom die naweek weg teen Bulle

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  2. @Grizzly: jy weet wat ons met hulle gaan maak, vrystaat o19,varsty cup, o20, currie beker, pro 14,en dan hopelik bokke en beslis n top club in europa na 5 jaar by die cheetahs

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  3. @Smallies: Ek verstaan Vrystaat het kontak met hom en een wat by die huis bly gemaak.Die een by die huis ken @4×4 goed.Ons het hom heartbreaker genoem op laerskool omdat hy altyd ons harte gebreek het in die liga…. :lol: flippen slim/goeie balspeler…

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  4. @OudUppie:

    Ek hoor Vrystaat se O/19 span speel lekker Grey rugby met James op 12 behoort hulle die bal lekker te versprei. WP gaan dalk alle spelers beskikbaar hê vir Vrystaat en ek sien uit om Christian Ambadiang te sien in spel hierdie jaar.

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  5. @Smallies:

    Vrystaat gaan weer min speler kan behou met spelers soos Dewet, Werner, Ross, Aggies, Wycliff en Richard wat na groter unies sal beweeg. Jou twee genoemdes sal definitief nie daar wees nie.

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  6. @Smallies:

    Ek neem hulle die kwalik nie my belange is al lankal nie meer by Vrystaat Unie na skool nie. Meeste van hulle gaan verspei na verskillende unies nie net Bulle toe nie.

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  7. @chief:ons weet mos maar hoe gewild die Grey seuns is, dis omdat hulle al reeds basies die voledige paket is, as ek sien hoe my eie seun ontwikkel het dan is dit verstaanbaar…

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  8. @Smallies:

    Ja dis ongelukkig een van die probleme by Vrystaat wat nie die beste Grey spelers kan behou nie. Nogmaals Vrystaat het hierdie jaar ‘n sterk groep seuns by die O/19’s ek sien uit om hulle te sien speel.

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  9. @chief: Kom ek begin om te se dit was n harder game as wat die telling se. FS het sommer binne die eerste paar minute n drie gedruk.
    Paar minute later het Bulle gedruk en dit was game on.
    Voorlang het buide span vir my baie goed gespeel. Soms het FS die oorhand in skrums gehad en dan weer die Bulle. Tog dink ek die verskil tussen die twee spanne was dat die Bulle se pak as geheel beter was. Hul losvoorspelers het al drie om al die selinders gevuur waar die FS miskien net twee gehad het.
    Die grootste veskil vir my op die dag was die agterlyn. Dink Bulle se 10 12 13 was net te goed vir die FS. FS gesukkel om agterlyn aan die gang te kry wanneer hulle die bal gekry het.
    Dan op die punte het Bulle miskien ook net te veel spoed.
    Dink tog daar was dan en wan ook puik individuele spel van n paar FS spelers. Dink 12 agter en 6 7 voor.
    In opsomming dink ek FS voorspelers kan eb gaan saam baie spanne kan praat maar agterspelers kan nie sonder spel skepper effektief kompenteer nie. Veral nie van stilstaande spel af nie.

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  10. @Riempies:

    Baie dankie vir die kommentaar. Ek sal definitief nie die 25ste Aug mis by Loftus nie.

    Lions 32-17 Leopards
    Sharks 52-0 OP

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  11. Results of this week-end.

    WP 61 Free State 31

    Sharks 38 Leopards 29

    Lions 29 Bulls 29

    It would seem that this competion, with the unfortunate execption of EP, will be highly competitive this season.

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  12. @Kattes-Strofes: Hier gaan n goeie jaar wees.
    Ek hou veral daarvan dat daar tuis en weg teen selfde span gespeel gaan word.
    Help ook met speler wat beaerings opdoen om nog deel van kompetisie te wees.
    Dink ons gaan Bulle vs Lions final sien. :mrgreen:

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  13. The Sharks will get their 1st true test this coming weekend. Much expected from them this year with so many star names in the team.

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  14. @Hooit: The bigger unions all have star players. WP for example have a lot of star players on the bench and in the rest of the training squad. For example MJ Strauss , D Enslin ect. (still to play ) . I think depth is the answer. The players from the bench should lift the tempo even more. Injuries will play a big part as the competition progress.
    But I agree, big test for the Sharks this weekend (away).

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  15. @Smiley:

    MJ is beseer en Enslin word nie gekies nie. Ek dink regtig WP gaan moet oorweeg om David terug te sit op 15, 13 beperk sy wedstryd spasie.

    Goed gedoen deur Vrystaat om die Vrystaat Craven Week Physio te laat blaas. Klink ‘n paar calls en high tackles was in die guns van Vrystaat.

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  16. @Hooit: Agreed. I watched the Sharks u19 game against the Leopards and feel that the Durban boys will have to find a few higher gears to compete against the Big 3 of junior rugby. I’ve watched my fair share of Leopards u19 victories against the Sharks u19 over the years, so will take a win even by just a point. For a few years prior to this one the Sharks seem to have neglected their u19 team and I reckon this year’s Leopards team would have got another away win under the belt against the Sharks if Teich and the management hadn’t spend a bit of tom on this 2018 team. But as a supporter really nice to have team that ticks many boxes again.

    @chief: The Sharks outside centre DJ Falconer was one of the underrated players of 2017 IMO. He had a great game on Friday and hopefully he can continue to build on that. He is nice big centre a decent combo of power, pace and ball skills. He got a hat trick of tries. Inside him Murray Koster is a WIP. I think he was mainly a flyhalf at St Andrew’s College but he too has useful skills. The Leopards’ first time tackling in the first half was below par away from the breakdown and the Sharks took good advantage of this. The Sharks rolling maul was also effective. JJ needs to up his off the ball workrate. Against a stronger team like the Bulls, the Sharks will need his presence to be felt at the rucks but right now he seems to have too little energy to contribute to support play. However with ball in hand he is lethal. His two tries both proved how difficult he is to stop. I also liked Muller du Plessis. He has plenty of flair and good footwork. Nature of this match didn’t test his aerial skills under pressure or exiting much. I thought the College lock Labuschagne was good value. He replaced Federico Mendez’s nephew in team and made the most of his opportunity. I’d like to see Pepsi add a few kgs just to give him more presence in the tighter phases. Richardson proved to be effective as a ball carrier. He has considerable power but others will catch up and some will overtake him in this department over the next few years. His challenge is to get the decision-making right. A good player has the awareness to ID a support player in a better position and link while one with blinkers on simply looks for contact every time. Also his lineout work wasn’t up to scratch when he moved to hooker and this handed an advantage to the Leopards which they capitalised on. The Leopards led 12-10 after really good short spell in the first half and then were down 38-12 at one stage, but finished really strongly. They found weak resistance around the fringes and made it count.

    I was also happy to see Boeta Chamberlain, who’s had such rotten luck with injury while at school get through the match (and the one before) before being subbed. He didn’t do anything flashy but hopefully he stays injury free and his confidence grows.

    I’m optimistic that things will get better for the Sharks. Everitt is a good coach and when he last coached the u19s they improved with every game and were a huge threat during the 2nd half of the season.

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  17. @chief: Ek het nog nie die span in aksie gesien nie, maar hoor by van die spelers se ouers dat Quan Eimann speel tans baie goed op no.15 vir WP. Hy is n glibberige kalant met goeie visie, hande en voete, en sluit goed by sy agterlyn aan om die man oor te bewerkstellig. Hy het no.10 vir Brakkies op skool gespeel.

    Ek vermoed dit is die rede hoekom David tans no.13 speel, maar ek kan verkeerd wees.

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  18. @beet: Hello beet. Out of interest, what is Frederico’s nephew doing in SA – does he live here, or has he moved here to further his career? How is the ex-St John’s fly-half doing?

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  19. @Vleis: From time to time the Sharks get these overseas players. Last year we had an English prop for a few games. Many years back a Kenyan lock Daniel Adongo and evan a really useful Lithuanian lock. The guys come along to better their rugby. In the case of Vidal, Federico contacted the Sharks last year and ask if they could help him out. I guess he will just be around for the season. Apparently he is a useful player so we may see him turn out for the Jaguares maybe even the Pumas one day.

    I will find out about Houlston. He was very good last year but it seems like the Sharks are giving preference to Murray Koster (who I think is Nick Koster’s cousin) as backup 10.

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  20. @chief: Ek het die wedstryd gekyk en verskil van jou informant. Jaco (skeidsregter) het oor die algemeen ‘n swak wedstryd gehad, maar die 50/50 calls het na die WP gegaan. Stem saam dat David terug moet skuif na 15. Hulle sal vir Solaan op senter moet plek maak – was uitstekend toe hy opgekom het. Sal Eymann na 11 skuif – Ambadiang was nie baie efektief nie – veral op verdediging was hy swak. Voorlangs het die WP my glad nie beindruk nie. Nr 1 was goed (baie goed met bal in die hand) en nr 6 het die oog gevang. In die stadium gaan dit weer ‘n geval wees dat Sharks en Cheethas gaan spook vir die 4 plek. WP, Bulle en Lions sal weer eerste 3 plekke wees.

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  21. @OudUppie: Cmon OudUppie. Don’t be so negative about the Sharks :mrgreen: See how much better your life feels when you say Sharks = no. 1.

    The no.6 Bevan Prinsloo was outstanding last year. I imagine if he played at CW this year he would have walked into the SAS team. Just with the likes of Mark Snyman and Vian Fourie last year, there was serious quality compo for that 6 jersey. Dian Bleuler also unlucky not to get an u18 international call up in 2017.

    For longevity in WP, I have a feeling a player like David Kriel has to make the most of playing 13. I’ve seen similar trends with EW Viljoen and Eduan Keyter. Like David both were top class SBR fullbacks that had to make the positional switch to outside centres once they got to Province.

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  22. @Kattes-Strofes:

    Mens kies die beste speler in die posisie, Quan was is in die Bulls wedstryd ‘n groot probleem agter en ek het darem gedink WP sal dit reg stel. Ek glo Devin Enslin moet ‘n geleentheid kry om te sien wat hy vir die WP kan bied aangesien Rikus Pretorius nou uit sal wees vir 6 weke na ‘n wangbeen breek.

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  23. @beet: Won’t mind seeing either Sharks or Cheetahs at the top for a change :-D Will know after the coming weekend where the Sharks stand. David had a very good game at 13. He run excellent supporting lines, but I still think 15 is his best position. Only time will tell.

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  24. Sharks u19 injury list:
    Philip van Dyk – available for selection for this weekend (Bulls)
    James Scott – available for selection for this weekend
    Ing Vidal – out for a few more weeks
    Thaakir Abrahams – back soon but not know exactly when

    Kieran Houlston was injured but fit again and was not able to make the match day 23 for the Leopards game

    Bulls over19 injury list:
    Riempies and Greenman – not injured but not exactly what what anyone would describe as fit either. :mrgreen: Also in desperate need of HIA based on their optimism for this weekend. Amazing kindness shown though to record the up and coming Bulls-Sharks u19 game and youtube it even if the scoreboard isn’t going the way they anticipated.

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  25. @beet: Good luck for the Sharks on Friday. I believe sharks have a bit of a problem swimming on dry land… or is it the altitute… Groenes and myself will keep you uo to date.

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  26. @chief: Jammer ek antwoord nou eers.Soos ek reeds gesê het, het ek nog nie die span persoonlik in aksie gesien nie. Ek maak dus maar staat op manne soos jy om terugvoering te gee. Ek het egter wel van manne gehoor dat Eymann baie goed teen die Vrystaat was, en n groot hand gehad het in van die drieë.

    Maar ek hoor ook wat jy sê !

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  27. Caught the second half of the game. Sharks played well, unexpected result. Was really impressed with du Plessis, Nohamba and Koster. From what I saw JJ needs to up his work rate, he no longer has the physical dominance that he had in high school. Why wasn’t he used in the line outs where the sharks struggled?

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  28. @warriors7:

    Ek hou nie daarvan om spelers te bespreek nie maar ek voel wel dat mense te veel verwagting op JJ sit. Ek gaan nie uitbrei wat gebeur het by die SARU kamp nie maar size is nie alles in rugby nie anders sou Will Skelton en Cameron Skelton reeds legends van die game gewees het.

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  29. @chief: Ek gaan more se wedstryd tussen WP en Leeus kyk. Hoop om dan met meer gesag te kan saampraat.

    Terloops ! Baie goeie sege van die Sharkies oor die Bulle ! Wil beslis lyk of die kompetisie vanjaar baie meer kompeterend gaan wees.

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  30. @warriors7: @Hooit: on a more serious note I also heard that Nohamba had a blinder and that the Bulls were their own worst enemies in the unforced error dept.

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  31. @Smiley:

    Dit lyk vir my of daardie opsie nie gou gaan gebeur nie die span is onveranderd vir môre. Ek dink WP gaan probleme optel om nie Marcel in die wedstryd te speel nie, hy het ‘n goeie inpak gemaak teen Blou Bulle.

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  32. @Beet: I take it congrats is in order…. Dammit..
    Lucky for me no burgers on this one.
    For me the difference on the day was the errors made by teams. It took the Sharks deep into the second half to make their first handling error.
    Bulls by then already had about 10 at crucial moments.
    Bulls dominated at scrums and line-out. But ball just used to slow. This for me was difference for Sharks which used quick ball.
    The kicking tee at the end of the day decided the winner.
    Looking forward to next game.

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  33. @chief: Vroutjie het goed geblaas. WP meeste van bal gehad, agterlynne se spasie aan beide kante beperk. WP meeste linebreaks gehad in 10 en 12 kanale. WP se agterste drie sal verdediging moet opknap, geteiken in al drie wedstryde sover. Lyk my hulle maak vir DC reg vir heelagter rol. Bly om Mark Snyman terug te sien, sal net beter raak met volgende wedstryd. Leeus was moeilik om te stop vanaf lynstaan rolmale.

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  34. My siening oor die wedstryd. Dit is nou amptelik City Park in Athlone is die LEEUS SE “BOGEY”

    My siening op die wedstryd. Dit is nou amptelik ! City Park in Athlone is die Leeu welpies se “bogey” veld.Die lastige Kaapse vlakte wind het oudergewoonte n rol gespeel. Hanteerwerk en ingooie by die lynstane in sulke toestande, is altyd uitdagend. Dit is nou die 3de agtereenvolgende jaar dat hulle hier vasgeval het teen die Streeptruie. Snaaks genoeg het die WP in hierdie tydperk nie soveel sukses op Nuweland behaal nie.
    Die vorige twee jare het die Leeus sake omgekeer en voortgegaan om as kampioene gekroon te word, maar ek is van mening dat dit vanjaar baie moeilik gaan wees om dit weer reg te kry, inagnemend die sterk kompetisie.Benewens die gebruiklike aansraakmakers (Leeus, Bulle en Vrystaat) het die Sharks ook n bulspan vanjaar, terwyl die Luiperds ook baie meer kompeterend is.
    Wat betref die wedstryd. Die dame het volgens my glad nie vrot geblaas nie. Die Leeus het vroeg met n verwoede aanslag gekom en is vinnig beloon met n doel na volgehoue druk,(haker Damien Venter het oorgeval ) waar hul voor-en agterspelers bal gedra het. Hulle het aanvanklik ook baie druk in die skrums toegepas en hul lynstaan spel was sekuur.
    WP het egter gaandeweg hul voete gevind en so effens teen die verloop van die spel op daardie stadium die voortou geneem met 2 drieë. (die 1ste van goeie dryfspel waar die senter Salaam oorgedryf is, en die 2de van omkeer besit wat vinnig wyd versprei is vir no.15 Eymann om agter die pale te gaan kuier. Hierna het die spanne om die beurt voorgeloop, vir die Leeus, wat die dwarswind in hul blaaie gehad het,het rustyd water gaan drink met n geringe 21-20 voorsprong.
    Ek en die Jong Bokkies senter Manny Rass, se pa, het ook nou vir drie jaar hierdie kragmeting bygewoon. Ons het rustyd gesê hier kom moeilikheid vir die Leeus. Die WP het die wind baie goed gebruik om gebieds voordeel te kry. Hul opvolgwerk vanaf skoppe was ook 1ste klas en hulle kon sodoende druk toepas. Hul voorspelers het ook al meer stem dikgemaak in die vaste fasette, terwyl die losmanne, flank Bevan Prinsloo (met sy spel op die grond) en no.8 Francke Horn (met sy kragtige lopies), baie prominent geraak het soos die wedstryd gevorder het.Die Leeus het op hul beurt weer begin sukkel in die lynstane (ingooier en springers kon mekaar nie vind nie)terwyl hul aanvanklike dominerende skrum ook onder druk gekom het.
    Die WP agterlyn het ook met meer ondernemings gespeel, hulle het spasie goed aangeval, terwyl hul hanteerwerk ook beter was in die lastige koue windjie. Daaraanteen wou dit voorkom of die Leeus meer staat gemaak het op hul fisieke aanslag, om hul teenstanders onder druk te plaas. Laasgenoemde se swak hanteerwerk en oorgretigheid naby die WP doelgebied,het hulle ook duur te staan gekom, met verkeie kanse op punte wat so verlore gegaan het. Krediet moet egter ook hier aan die tuispan gaan vir hul rotsvaste verdediging, veral onder druk.
    Ten slotte net dit. Bitter min te kies tussen die twee spanne. WP wen egter hierdie ene welverdiend. Daar was n groot gros Craven week en SA Skole spelers in aksie. Moet egter byvoeg ! Nie een van hulle het vandag vir my die “wow” faktor gewys nie, om te dink hy is binnekort n Springbok nie. Ek hoop maar die omstandighede het baie hiermee te make.

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  35. @Kattes-Strofes: Hi Kattes. Thank you for sharing.

    I must say that like schoolboy rugby, at u19 CC level you can identify stand out players but trying to determine which players will make it to have sustainable top pro level careers a few years down the line remains one of the hardest things to predict. I can remember so many youngsters who have looked like sure bets and then never quite made it big. I was speaking to a union official at the Sharks – Leopards game the other day and he said that the true measure was only when these young players played at senior level in a compo like the Supersport Challenge.

    One major ingredient of success isn’t visible to us spectators but becomes apparent to the union coaches and management is the work ethic of the players off the field. The grafters are always the ones that succeed in the end and the fruits of their efforts don’t always show themselves at u19 level.

    In times gone by when u21 rugby was stronger and longer compo, the main different to me between that level and u19 was the speed of the defence. Defenders were more organised and responded a lot faster to situations giving players on the ball a lot less time to make choices. It tended to change the ball game for players who had grown up being able to outpace or outpower tacklers.

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  36. WP u19 home results vs Lions u19 from 2010-
    (2016 final on neutral ground)

    DATE HOME HS AS AWAY
    17/07/2010 Western Province 45 7 Lions
    19/08/2011 Western Province 40 22 Lions
    01/09/2012 Western Province 27 18 Lions
    20/10/2012 Western Province 24 14 Lions
    05/10/2013 Western Province 13 21 Lions
    23/08/2014 Western Province 24 22 Lions
    01/08/2015 Western Province 32 27 Lions
    02/07/2016 Western Province 23 18 Lions
    22/10/2016 Western Province 19 60 Lions
    15/09/2017 Western Province 29 5 Lions
    28/07/2018 Western Province 37 28 Lions
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  37. Shark vs. W.P. Wat n great game om te kyk. Goeie spel deur beide spanne . Beide loskakels was baie goed. Sharks se voorspelers net te goed op die dag.
    Van 1 tot 8. n Wedstryd met n hoë tempo en intensiteid vir 80 minute.
    Dankie vir n puik wedstryd manne .

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  38. @Smiley: 100% agreed. Super game today. Could have gone either way. Province had the better of the possession stakes but the Sharks D was too good. Sharks make numerous basic handling errors so should be extra happy with the outcome coz on a different day that would have come back to bite them big time. But the mistakes aside it was still great rugby to watch with many outstanding individual performances in amongst the team work.

    You get to see some of the best rugby at provincial u19 level and yet the match attendances remain are extremely low. Pity!

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  39. @beet: Cannot agree with you more. Some of the best rugby.
    As far as attendance go i do not think that the unions do enough to promote these fixtures. I am a keen follower of unions on numerous media platforms. I think this week was the first time that I saw a post about the Bulls 0/19 s in a blog post on their official Facebook/twitter page.
    I believe the all missing an opportunity.

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  40. @beet: @beet: Beet ! I heard from my brother in law, who is a huge Sharks fan, that he got some inside info that the boys from the two Paarl schools are having a huge impact on the overall performance of the team, both on, and off the field.

    I can understand that, as both Boishaai and Gim, are known for their discipline, dedication and work ethics. Apparently, this is currently rubbing off on the other players in the squad. Also heard that the group are a happy bunch, which obviously also contributes to a possitive vibe. Well done ! It is high time that the Sharks, as one of our leading rugby centres, also perform at junior level.

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  41. @Kattes-Strofes: Its a good combination of “no nonsense” youngsters, a good coaching staff, and a happy bunch indeed, I believe. Credit to some 2017 local players and a few from country districts as well. They really did some clever recruitment.
    Still a long season ahead though.

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  42. Nog n paar groot wedstryde, veral in die boonste deel van die log waar baie nog kan verander. Ek voel vir die OP spelers.

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  43. @chief: Stem saam met jou, Kriel is uitstekend op 15. Enslin het al oor die laaste 2 jaar gewys hy is die beste 13 tans. Kriel, Enslin, Rikus, Schreuder, Angelo almal seuns by die 1.9+ en 95kg+

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  44. @Kattes-Strofes: Dont quote me wrong, but why do WP only got one Paarl Boys High boy in their starting 15? The 2017 HJS team had brilliant players. It would be sad to see these young boys not in our home town clubs.

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  45. @Woere: I cannot answer that question. However ! I do know that the Lions have dominated this competition for the past two seasons with a substansive number of Boishaai players in their team.
    No less than 9 Boishaaiers of 2015/16 was part of the Lions champion teams of 2016 and 2017. Also they have none in this season,s line-up, and their fortunes have drastically dropped (currently fifth on the log).
    Their recruiters must have taken note, as two of this year,s top Boishaaiers, SA Schools lock and captain, Adriaan Alberts and WP tighthead prop Coenie Bester, will be joining the young Lions cubs next season

    On the other hand, the Sharks, who have battled the past couple of seasons, this year have 5 Boishaaiers on their books, and they are unbeaten and leading the log.
    Makes one think, does it not ? :wink:
    As far as I know, WP have 3 Boishaaiers on their books. Only the captain, Francke Horn is a regular starter.Prop Josh Du Preez do start occasionally, and is normally included in the squad.

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  46. @Kattes-Strofes: Die Leuus het goeie spelers op papier , maar is besig om af te gly op die log. Het hulle die selfde coaches as die vorige 2 jaar ?
    Moet WP nie dalk probeer om die room van die Kaap te behou en gebruik, soos hulle die room van Grey teken en speel nie. Ek weet WP is bederf met local talent , maar hel , hoe laat jy kwaliteit spelers en soms afrigters so deur jou vingers glip. Die ander unies kla nie , glo my want hulle kry gebalenseerde seuns. En hoekom sal n maatskapy iemand aanstel , finansieel in hom belê en hom nie gebruik nie ?

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  47. @A4ie: Laasgenoemde is darem nie n probleem wat net tot die WP beperk is nie. Al die unies, veral die grotes, maak sulke besluite.
    n Mens moet ook in ag neem dat spelers, en hul agente, baseer hul feite oor waar hul toekoms lê, op n hele paar aspekte. Dit behels goed soos vergoeding, studie geleenthede, “game time” en waar hulle in die “pecking” orde gaan wees by n unie.(wie, en hoe oud is die spelers in sy posisie, wat tans by n unie gekontrakteer is).
    Die groter unies kontrakteer eerstens n klomp ekstra manne vir diepte, en alhoewel ek kan dit nie kan bevestig nie, vermoed ek ook in sekere gevalle, om goeie spelers van ander unies af weg te hou.

    Wat betref jou vraag of vanjaar se Leeus o/19 coaches dieselfde is as die vorige twee jaar. Nee! Daardie betrokke afrigters het bevordering gekry na die Super Rugby en senior Curriebeker spanne toe.

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  48. Ek wag nog vir bevestiging maar dit klink my dat die VKB sa platteland span die bulls o20 span gewen het…. Weet iemand iets van dit?

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  49. After the latest round of results, it looks like the Sharks and Bulls are now the firm favourates to determine this years champions. I expect WP and the Lions to make it to the semi-

    finals, but on recent form, I cannot see them making it through to the final.

    Also good news for the competition, is the fact that the Leopards are much more competitive this season, compared to the last couple of years.

    It is still very sad that the media, and for that matter, also SA Rugby, show very little interest in this, as well as the national u/21 competition. This is such a huge gauge to

    determine which of the youngsters have the makings to become a profesional rugby player.

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  50. @Smallies: Jip ! Jy is reg ! Ek het ook êrens gelees dat die OP nou n finansiële inspuiting gaan kry met n vennoot, en ook n groot nuwe borgskap bekom het. Dit sal goed wees vir ons rugby, want daar is darem te veel talent in die Oos-Kaap wat tans deur ander unies opgeraap word. Die OP het darem mos al verskeie legendes opgelewer, waarvan Danie Gerber sekerlik die bekendste is.

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  51. Ek wonder wie het al die OP legendes afgerig of is dit ook nou die afrigters se skuld dat hulle so kak is

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  52. @Kattes-Strofes:

    WP was glo met twee punte agter en bring toe die hele reserwe bank op. Dit is toe waar Bulle hul laaste paar houe uitgedeel het.

    Rakende die OP seuns, is dinge maar moeilik. Die ouers het vertel by die WP wedstryd dat hulle alles self betaal.

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  53. @chief: Rakende die WP storie van jou. Ja ! Die gebruik van plaasvervangers speel vandag ook n reuse rol in die uitslag van wedstryde.Somtyds werk vars bene baie goed, maar in ander gevalle breek dit weer n span se momentum. Ek meen dat tydsberekening, en die regte plaasvevangings (nie noodwendig die hele kaboedel nie), veral wanneer dinge nog redelik naby en vloeibaar is, kan voordelig wees. Die plaasvervangers moet darem ook byna op dieselfde vlak wees as die “starters” om sodoende n impak te kan maak.
    Die storie oor die OP manne wat self hul koste moet dra, is ook hartseer ! My klong was deel van die Leeu o/21 span wat 120 – 0 gewen het die naweek. Hy sê dat hy, en n paar van sy spanmaats, het rerig jammer gevoel vir die opponente. Dit baat mos niemand wat in sulke eensydige wedstryde betrokke is nie, of is ek nou verwaand?

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  54. @chief: Ag nee wat ek glo darem nie die bench kan blameer word nie.
    Dink tot op daardie stadium was die WP nog gelukkig om net met twee punte agter te wees.
    Hulle het twee prag driee gedruk deur swak verdediging naby die skrums.
    WP was in game vir eerste 20-30 min. Daarna was Bulls te sterk vir hulle.
    Pas van spel was ook teen 180km/h wat dit later vir WP met die hitte en hoogte vir hulle moeilik gemaak het.
    Bulls ook hul vollebank gebruik so WP bank kan regtig nie blameer word nie.

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  55. Hello Beet
    Thank you for your coverage of the U/19 Currie Cup. I rather read your passionate posts than the reports on the Boks on other sites. Keep it up!

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  56. @Kattes-Strofes: Ek glo nie die plaasvervangers was die probleem met WP o/19 span wat gespeel het teen die Bulle nie. Die WP seuns kry ook nie gereelde blootstelling aan groot stadions nie. Die oomblik wanneer hulle in een moet speel val hulle wiele af. Hoekom dink jy het Nollis Marais die speelveld geskuif. Vra maar vir iemand soos Sean Erasmus en Pieter Rossouw wat doen groot stadions aan jong manne. Op 0/19 vlak moet die seuns groot gemaak word vir die profesionele era waarin hulle hulself vind. Wat is beter as om hulle gewoond te maak aan groter stadions. Anders sal hierdie oomblikke altyd te groot wees vir spelers wat nie gewoond is daaraan nie. Belhalwe vir twee spelers uit huidige groep seuns het niemand ander blootstelling anders as skool velde rugby nie.

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  57. @Han: Thanks Han. u19 rugby is great to watch. There is a nice balance to it. Sort of the last age-group where you can watch Saffa players really expressing themselves and appreciate the individual talent within an up tempo team game. Kind of like Delguy did against the Boks this past weekend. It just seems like after u19 the conservative approach takes charge.

    The Boks are no longer known for their flair on attack but what’s happened to the once great defensive game we had??? Ideally a top team should stand out in both departments but right now one or the other would suffice. Boks seem to have neither on current form.

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  58. Lions 36 Leopards 34. Penalty three minutes from time saved the Lions.I feel that this Lions team, with so many former SA Schools players in, is under peforming at the moment. Or maybe the youngsters are battling to make the mind shift from schoolboy rugby hero, now to being a profesional player, which for most of the time are playing at empty venues, with only die-hard family members and friends supporting .

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  59. Sorry ! Wanted to add ! The Leopards do deserve a lot of credit for their performance. They clearly have some talented players in their ranks and are also well coached. They played with a lot of determination and heart. This was also evident in their u/21 team,s performance against a quality Lions outfit. Well done to the Potch boys ! Keep up the good work. It is good news for SA rugby.

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  60. @chief: Ek volg nou al n paar jaar hierdie kompetisie en het al vantevore op hierdie forum hieroor gepraat. Ek het dus ook oor hierdie tydperk waargeneem dat daar n groot aantal, van die sogenaamde ster skole spelers (SA Skole of SA B span) is, wat dit eenvoudig nie maak in die profesionele rugby wereld nie. Nou laat dit mens tog wonder oor die keuses van die SA skole keurders. Maar aan die ander kant is daar tog ook puik spelers, oor wie se insluiting in genoemde spanne, niemand ooit sal bevraagteken nie.
    Ek het nie die antwoord oor hoekom die manne verdwyn nie. Ek weet egter dat dit geweldige toewyding, harde werk en self dissipline verg om sukses te behaal. Profesionele rugby, met sy gepaardgaande risikos van beserings, stel beslis ook geestelike vrae aan die “spier” tussen die ore van n jong speler, wat skielik nie meer n sekere keuse in n span is nie, en meeding met andere wat bykans net so talentvol is, indien nie meer nie.Ek wil glo dat dit gewoonlik dan die tyd is, dat die kwessies soos harde werk ens. (soos hierbo genoem), se belangrikheid veral inskop.Spelers wat nie die nodige gedoen het nie, kan dalk dan nie gekies word vir die span nie. Dit kan dan lei tot n negatiewe gedagtegang, wat op sy beurt weer kan lei tot die speler se gebrekkige belangstelling. Maar ek bespiegel maar net hier, sonder enige konkrete bewyse.
    Dit sal nogal interesant wees om te sien wat n wetenskaplik gedrewe ondersoek, sal oplewer.
    N.S. Met SA Rugby se nuwe beleids rigting oor die vermindering van gekontrakteerde spelers (waarmee ek terloops saamstem, al kan dit my klong benadeel), sal daar nog meer druk wees op spelers om deel te kan vorm van die uitgelese geselskap !

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  61. @Kattes-Strofes:

    Ek is oortuig dat ‘n vermindering van kontrakte ons rugby nog verder gaan laat daal. Om ‘n O/20 toernooi te skep gaan ‘n groot hoeveelheid spelers die geleentheid ontneem om verder te ontwikkel.

    Ek praat die naweek van die stukture van Frankryk en probeer hul spelers van die O/20 Wêreld Beker dophou. Die meeste spelers gebore in 1999 speel reeds senior rugby in die Top 14 French (14 spanne) of Pro D2 (16 spanne). Dan het hulle steeds junior spanne wat ‘n geleentheid bied vir ander om te ontwikkel en nie weg te raak in die rugby sisteem nie. Met dit in gedragte is SARU besig om agteruit te loop. Ek vir een sou daarvan hou as alle unies in SA (14 van hulle) ‘n beter finansieële bystand kon kry by SARU om die O/19 Currie Cup in ‘n “Top 14” toernooi te skep (selfde met O/21).

    Speel WP se O/21 span op dieselfde dag teen OP in PE?

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  62. @chief: Jy is reg oor die vermindering van gekontrakteerde spelers wat moontlik op die ou end negatief kan uitwerk. Maar dit is ook n feit dat veral die groter unies sit met heelwat spelers op hul boeke, wat bykans nooit deel vorm van n span nie, en maar net saam oefen, en hoop dat daar kom beserings ens. wat hulle darem n kans sal gee. SA Rugby, soos dit nou blyk, se finansies is ook tans nie baie gesond nie, en vind dit moeilik om finansieel by te dra tot hul onderskeie unies. Laasgenoemde, veral die kleiner unies, het nie so baie borge en weldoeners om hul spelers behoorlik te vergoed nie. Dit geld ook nou toenemend selfs vir die groot honde wat deelneem aan Super rugby. Indien my inligting reg is, is dit slegs die Leeus wie se syfers tans klop.Speler salarisse is by verre die grootste uitgawe by die unies, en dit is dus verstaanbaar dat dit daar sal wees waar die snywerk gedoen sal word.

    Ek vermoed ook dat die voorgestelde beperking van die aantal voltydse profesionele spelers tot tussen 40 en 50 by die groot unies, het ook iets te make om die spelers beter te vergoed, sodat hulle nie oorsee skuif nie.Daar sal darem tog n buitekans wees vir diegene wat nie die uitsoek groep gehaal het nie, om steeds op daardie vlak te kan speel vir wedstryd geld, wanneer hulle benodig word. En dan is daar darem ook kompetisies soos Varsity Cup en die Nasionale klub kampioenskap vir spelers, om hul staal te toon.

    Wat betref jou vraag oor die WP teen die OP, ek glo dit sal die geval wees. Sover in die 2de rondte, wat nou aan die gang is. was al die wedstryde wat tot dusver gespeel is, tussen beide onderdoms groepe van die unies.

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  63. In my beskeie opinie, dink ek dat die rugby ‘manne’ en strukture bietjie aarde toe gekom het.
    Rugby as sport moet besef dat ons baie het om baie ander sportsoorte te leer, en moenie dink ons weet als nie, want dit is maar die gevoel wat ek baie keer kry. Ons moet bereid wees om te leer en nie altyd n boodskap uitstraal van belangrik voel en lyk nie.

    Ons is prysnemers in die mark van sport, ons kan nie dikteer nie, want dan gebeur wat nou gebeur…

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  64. Howzit Beet. The rumour mill is running at full tilt regarding the intended structural changes to junior levels as well as senior competitions. Some of the stuff is mind boggling and will be detrimental to our rugby if pushed through. If anyone thinks a smaller pie with slightly bigger slices will stem the tide of players departing overseas, I think they need to reconsider. The only thing that will happen is the pull will have to increase from abroad, and it will. Perhaps when we have accurate and clear information about where this ship is sailing, we can talk about the impact of the decisions. Can’t help but wonder how Boksmart and u19/u20 players are going to find a way going forward, presumably through the varsities, so we’ll just have to wait for an official press release. I think the current talent id machine is very dodgy at best. I also think this will impact SBR….will post matric become a realistic option again; will it be worth moving schools in future, or even become ESSENTIAL to wear the right blazer….? Looking forward to you guys unearthing what seems to be a lurking monster.

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  65. I think an u20 curry cup and an u/23 Supersport Challenge comp. can work.
    It will be sad if their is only u/21 and then Senior rugby.

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  66. @A4ie: The rumour is that the proposal to be decided on by SA Rugby, will be the scrapping of the u/19 and u/21 competition (to be replaced by an u/20 competion) and also an u/23 competition, in place of the current Supersport Challenge. I do not know the exact details on this, or when this will come up for discussion, but I think it could possibly be at SA Rugby,s AGM,which are normally held towards the end of the year.

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  67. Bulls 10-11 Lions.
    Gister ook rumor gehoor dat daar volgende jaar net 0/21 gaan wees.
    Dink dit sal n groot fout wees.

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  68. @A4ie: Die rumour klink reg indien mens in ag neem dat die groot unies net n maksimum van 50 ge-kontrakteerde spelers mag hê, indien die voorstel
    hieroor goedgekeur word.

    Ek vermoed dat die unies sal 30 seniors (twee in elke posisie) en 20 juniors teken.

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  69. @Smallies:

    Ek het na die O/19 wedstryd met ‘n agent gepraat dit klink vir my die O/19’s gaan volgende jaar maar kompiteer vir ‘n plek teen O/21’s of hulle moet maar Koshuis rugby en Varsity rugby speel. SARU sal seker nog nuus gee oor die saak.

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  70. @chief: ek dink eerlikwaar dat dit die beste sal wees vir hulle… Dan kan hulle ten minste n graad of iets he as hulle nie n kontrak kry nie… Ek dink ook dat daar n drastiese skuif terug na amateur status vir o 19 en ook o20 spelers moet wees… Daar is baie puik o 19 spelers in ons varsities wat nooit raak gesien word nie, hopelik sal hulle nou ook bietjie bloodstelling kry

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  71. @Smallies: Ek het vandag gehoor dat die storie van die o/19 kompetisie wat wegval, wel verlede week deur SA Rugby goedgekeer is. Volgende seisoen is ook die laaste van die Supersport Challenge. Ek vermoed dat hulle dan weer terug sal keer na n dubbel rondte senior Currie Beker, wat moontlik meer unies sal betrek, om op te maak vir diegene wat nie die Super Rugby spanne gehaal het nie.

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  72. @Hooit: Hooit, lyk dan vir my of die WP span vanjaar net so wisselvallig is soos die Leeus. Volgens my onder presteer beide. Dit wil nou al voorkom of hier n Sharks/ Bulle eindstryd kom.

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  73. @Kattes-Strofes: ek weet ek is n enkel stem in die bos maar ek persoonlik dink dat die heel beste ding wat ons kan doen sal wees om superugby heeltemal te ditch, sit die curriebeker weer heel bo op die troon met die beloning vir die 4 top spanne deelname in europa, ons dink geheel en al te veel van superugby, en ons pluk die vrugte daarvan big time nou,en dis nie baie gesonde vrugte vir ons rugby nie, die curriebeker was so sterk dat daar stadions soos ellispark nuweland, loftus kingspark en die vrystaat stadion gebou is om die toeskouers te akomodeer, en saru kon nie sien dat die curriebeker juis die ding was wat ons rugby sterk gehou het nie…. Ons het NOOIt superugby nodig gehad nie…

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  74. @Smallies:

    Vaughen Isaacs van Marlow lyk glad nie na ‘n slegte speler vir die toekoms nie. Hy speel glo al die hele O/19 Currie Cup goeie rugby.

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  75. @chief: ander outjie van marlow wat die jaar matriek is wat ek ook baie laaik is claude jacobs flyhalf met n kanon voet, hulle scrummie is ook baie goed gewees die jaar

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  76. Gents! For the sake of our English bloggers, of which I know some is from the Eastern Cape, just the following: It is good to hear that there is still some quality players in this season,s struggling EP team. I honestly hope that the new sponsorship deal comes through and provide an injection to the EP Kings. The eastern Cape,s black community loves their rugby and also produce some fantastic players. Most of these, like Siya Kolisi, was born in bread in that area. There are also some top rugby schools in the Eastern Cape, which produses annually a number of quality players.

    Hooit! Jy is reg oor die feit dat dit nog nie n uitgemaakte saak is wie die gunsteling Sharkies gaan pak nie. En ja ! Die Leeu welpies het die Bulle gister geklop, maar jy sal ook saamstem dat hulle tot dusver maar taamlik wisselvallig vertoon! Ek hoop natuurlik dat hulle nou die draaipunt bereik het. Moet egter nie vir die WP en die Vrystaat weg gooi nie.Die kompetisie is nietemin vanjaar lekker taai, en sorg vir opwinding.

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  77. @Kattes-Strofes: Without undermining the nature of a pro sport which has countless examples to prove that the place a player grows up/attends school isn’t necessarily where he ended up plying his trade, the Eastern Cape is a significant contributor to u19 rugby. Excluding the actual EP team, roughly 10% of the players in the championship are from the Eastern Cape.

    A poor economic region with some good schools, good coaches and good players. The SA system just has to provide them with an opportunity after school. It doesn’t have to be in the EC, it just has to be a stable viable one that contributes positively to the overall wellbeing of SA rugby.

    # POS NAME SCHOOL REGION
    1 1 James Scott Grey HS EP
    2 1 Cole Haggard Hudson Park BOR
    3 1 Kudzwai Dube Muir EP
    4 2 Andile Nondwangu Cambridge EP
    5 2 Viaan Wolmarans Framesby EP
    6 3 Marno Beyl Marlow EP
    7 3 Le-Kleu Stokes Brandwag EP
    8 3 Gerrit Du Preez Marlow EP
    9 6 Bevan Prinsloo Grey HS EP
    10 8 Adam Mountfort Selborne BOR
    11 9 Mitchell Connellan Selborne BOR
    12 9 Hlumelo Ndudula Hudson Park BOR
    13 10 David Coetzer Selborne BOR
    14 10 Vaughen Isaacs Marlow EP
    15 12 Waqar Solaan Grey HS EP
    16 12 Murray Koster St Andrew’s EP
    17 13 Ayabonga Matroos Grey HS EP
    18 14 Siphamandla Matsinya Dale BOR
    19 14 Juandre Sabbat Brandwag EP
    20 15 Nevaldo Fleurs Marlow EP
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  78. u19 players by region/province

    WP 38
    BB 33
    GL 27
    KZN 19
    EP 14
    FS 10
    LEO 10
    SWD 9
    GW 7
    VAL 7
    BOR 6
    BOL 4
    GRF 4
    LIM 4
    PUM 3
    Int 3

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  79. @Kattes-Strofes: Jy het ge”born in bread”, wat baie snaaks is. Of ‘n lelike belediging. :mrgreen: @beet: Chatted about the EP /19’s yesterday and the squad that did so well and the person I spoke to said the academy run by Rob Kempston at that time was a major contributor to the success of that team.

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  80. @Kattes-Strofes: Ek stem saam. Leeus baie wisselvalig. Ek het al hul wedstryde op video gekyk en n paar bygewoon. Hul kon as afronding reg was WP en Sharks al geklop het die jaar. Ek hoop ook van harte dat hul n draaipunt bereik het. Op papier het hul die span. Sal beter kan sien Saterdag of dit so is. Gaan lekker wees om al 3 Leeus spanne in die Park te sien speel op 1 dag.

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  81. @Hooit: ek glo dat die vrystaat in die semis sal speel, die span wat hulle speel sal ma moet hoop dat die vrystaat nie aan geswitch is is nie, daai klomp no name cheetahs is n lekker spannetjie as hulle die dag lus is…

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  82. @Hooit: Ek dink ook Bulle vs. Sharks , W.P. vs Sharks en W.P. vs Lions gaan bepaal wie en waar semi finale gaan wees. Daar kan nog baie gebeur.

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  83. @Smallies:

    Ek dink jy moet jou woorde tel om te verwys na hierdie Vrystaat span as ‘n klomp no names. Ek het gisteraand die wedstryd van Vrystaat teen WP gekyk op Hudl. WP se breier/scout (sal nie sy naam noem nie) kan sy eie gat skop om spelers soos Jacques van Biljon, Wilhelm, Vian, Eric te laat gaan het na ander unies. Vrystaat het eerste helfde saam die wind gespeel en ek dink dit het dit WP getap gesamentlik met ‘n ongelooflike swak verdedings patroon van WP.

    Weet iemand waarom ouens soos Eric en Wilhelm nie tans wedstryde speel nie? Eric was dalk in die top 5 beste 9’s in 2017 en Wilhelm was volgens my die beste 2 in 2017.

    Ek wil dit al vroeg call dat die Sharks spannetjie dit gaan vat.

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  84. Ek dink sharks lyk die meeste bestendig. Bulle het vrydag verloor in wesdtryd op nat veld, miskien het n paar beserings in sleutel posisies die verskil gemaak in die vaste fasette vir bulle.Dink die bulle kan dalk teen die sharks in finaal speel????

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  85. @Smallies:

    Vrystaat sit met spelers in posisie beter as WP in my opinie. So ek twyfel darem grootliks of hulle die “cream of the crop” is.

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  86. @chief: Wilhelm het weer n knie beseering en is klaar vir 2018. Eric is in dieselfde bootjie as Divan Enslin. Goed genoeg en behoort te speel, maar “sadly” weet niemand wat in die coaches se koppe aangaan nie. Wp recruit baie snaaks. Jy kan nog n hele paar wp skole spelers byvoeg soos Thakier, Janco , ens.

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  87. @chief: hoeveel sa skole spelers in die wp span teen oor die vrystaat span…. Jy weet tog wat ek bedoel mnr,, die meeste groot name van verlede jaar sit maar by die wp insluitend n klompie van bloem, ons het nie naastenby die groot name in ons span nie…. En dis nie noodwendig n slegte ding nie…

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  88. @A4ie:

    Ek wou nie Janco, Thaakir of Muller se name noem nie want ek is seker hul kontrakte lyk beter as die spelers van WP in hul posisies.

    Ek het al genoeg gesien van David op 13, hy moet terug 15 toe waar hy hoort. En sodoende plek maak vir Divan. Hy gaan glo nou koshuis rugby speel vir game time.

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  89. Oor die storie dat WP nie al hul beste spelers kontrakteer nie, net die volgende. In vandag se tye,soos ek al n paar keer vantevore op hierdie blog genoem het, is dit beslis nie meer n uitgemaakte saak dat n speler na skool, by die unie van die betrokke skool, sal teken nie, al word hy n kontrak aangebied. Ek gaan nie weer in die detail in nie, maar goed soos studies, speelkans, ouderdom en gehalte van ander spelers in sy posisie, by n unie, speel gewoonlik n baie groot rol, benewens natuurlik ook die finansiële pakket. Die unies op hul beurt neem natuurlik ook in ag, wie, en die gehalte van die spelers wat tans op hul boeke is, en bepaal dan ook meestal daarop hul aanbod aan n speler. Meeste goeie spelers het vandag ook n agent, wat hul dan ook van raad bedien om die regte loopbaan besluit te maak.

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  90. Sad news to hear about Wilhelm Barnard. I thought he was a candidate for player of the season last year in spite of the injury cutting his season short.

    I noticed that Johan van Zyl another top hooker from SBR 2017 is also out of the picture now, presumably also with injury.

    Closer to my home, players like Henk Cilliers, Le Roux Malan and Philip van Dyk have also not been able to play the parts hoped due to injuries.

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  91. I have watched all but one of the Bulls games. Yes they lost against the Sharks and the Lions. The one against the Sharks they should have won. Only bad handling and not slotting crucial kicks cost them the game.
    The lost against the Lions well again they could have won that one. Lions had far more ball than Bulls. Yes they have injuries in crucial positions. Those player soon to be back. Some already against the Sharks for weekend coming.
    The two games against the FS was hard games although the score might not show that. FS pack is hard and big. For me I do not believe the #10 getting the back line going. If he change that they going to be far more effective.
    Biggest disappointment for me so far was WP.. expected far more from them.
    leopards the big surprise for me. I enjoy watching them. Pack and back line working hard. Was surprise with their big lost this weekend.

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  92. @beet: Hi Beet. Sad that this competition is ending !
    I am going up this week-end for the Lions – WP matches, and if you would like, I will try and give some feedback early next week.

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  93. @Kattes-Strofes: Yeah Kattes. I am really sad since I enjoy u19 rugby a lot. I have my concerns about the base from which the decision was made. It does not appear to be a strategic well thought out and thoroughly investigated one to ensure the best longer term interests of SA rugby are put first. Instead it comes across as crisis management to overcome growing financial woes. Cutting the junior program in half will show immediate savings in money but it could well end up hurting senior rugby revenue even more down the line for various reasons.

    Schools have been entrusted to develop youngsters and there are fantastic structures in place in most regions. But after school, its the unions who have set the standard by looking after most of the juniors who want a career in rugby. I assume a lot more of that junior player development responsibility is going to be shifted to universities and clubs once u19 rugby falls away. In an evolving rugby world, HP development is a game changer – the gap between a player benefiting from union backed HP development vs one who has to sponsor himself outside of the RU’s program is potentially significant.

    I have heard some interesting alternative views as well. Suggestions that our senior rugby systems are inefficient and the inefficiency even in identifying and separating those junior players that deserve to be rewarded with contacts vs those who don’t stand a chance of making it, have not been good and that there is not enough of a prove yourself worthy of a contact mentality in play. Anyway no one should be saying the process is easy or that the future holds certainty. There must be huge worries in the industry.

    Much appreciated offer on the Lions. I have a so-called insider on the Lions u19s but can’t help but detect that whereas his son puts in a shift and a half every game, the old man’s direct messaging typing fingers are in need of serious HP conditioning. :mrgreen:

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  94. @beet: I’d like to see the talented u19, u20 and u21s playing for senior club teams, like they do overseas. There should still be an u20 club league to catch the players that don’t make it into the senior team, but the top players should already be testing themselves against the men.

    This would help generate more interest in the club matches, which should be the bedrock around which our provincial rugby is built. The clubs should become more professional – even charge small entrance fees, etc. One of the reasons why attendances at provincial matches are dropping every year, is because there is a disconnect between the supporters and the provincial teams due to the void created by the demise of club rugby. There are too many provincial matches, tournaments, etc, with too many unrecognisable players. Of course, the marketing is hopeless too.

    The US know how to do things properly- school football matches on Friday, Universities on Saturday and then the NFL on Sunday. There is a clear continuity in the process and, of course, brilliant marketing. I watch more US football than rugby these days! :roll: :cry:

    On a brighter note, the Varsity Cup shows what can be done if we put our minds to the task…and even the Varsity Cup can be improved.

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  95. @beet: What I’ve been wondering is how the unions will assemble their u20 sides, if as you have indicated before, the unions will be limited to 50 professional players each, probaby in a 30-20 senior-u20 split.

    So you have 20 u20 players on the book, but for continuity that would presumably include some u19 players as well (especially with the view to the next year’s u20 World Cup). The presumption is that the majority u19’s will go to Varsity Cup, but who will be paying their salaries? Up to now, if we’re honest, most of the VC u20’s were contracted by the unions.

    Or they’ll go to clubs. Which clubs? From what I understand club finances are in an even worse state than those of unions. Academies? Run and financed by whom?

    To me it would seem that the proposed new structure will kill junior rugby, and eventually senior rugby as well. I’ll really appreciate a different workable explanation if someone has one.

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  96. @tzavosky:

    Al wat ek weet O/19 Currie Cup 2019 of nie. Alle spelers wat kontrakte reeds geteken het sal deur hul unie betaal word al speel hy volgende jaar net koshuis rugby en young guns.

    Dit lyk al hoe beter vir ons spelers om oorsee te gaan na skool. SA Rugby is al reeds besig om te sink, hierdie gevalle gaan dit net vererger.

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  97. @chief: Of ons gaan terug na ‘n voormalige amateur era, waar jy soms in koshuisrugby teen provinsiale spelers gespeel het, en koshuisligaspelers hulle binne ‘n week in die provinsiale span kon bevind. Nie noodwendige ‘n slegte idee in my opinie nie.

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  98. @tzavosky:

    Ja maar al hierdie nuus klink vir my asof SARU net geld wil spaar. Dit beteken dat daar nie nog fondse ingeploeg gaan word vir koshuisliga, young guns, klubrugby of enige ander alternatief nie.

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  99. @CharlesZA: I purchase NFL Gamepass, which costs $199 for the season. In theory, I can watch every single match live, but I usually watch two games per week and some highlights. I haven’t bothered to find out what College packages are available, as I don’t want to end up with completely square eyes. :-)

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  100. I think it is a question of to many players thinking they can make a living out of professional rugby and unions signing way too many players. Why aren’t people watching the games anymore?..Because the standards have dropped and the rugby is mediocre to say the least. There are players today playing Currie Cup rugby and Super rugby that would not have made most top clubs in WP 1st teams in the 80’s and 90’s. Quality and not quantity is what we should look at.

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  101. @tzavosky: die probleem is dat daar te veel kontrakte vir 0/19 en skool seuns gegee word. die skool super ster is nie noodwendig die beste nie en daar word baie seuns gemis wat laat ontwikkel, maar omdat kontrakte klaar gegee is word daar nie verder gekyk nie.
    Indien ‘n seun wil rugby speel sal hy by ‘n klub gaan speel en hom self op werk want nou gaan die unie gedwing word om klub rugby te gaan kyk en hoekom moet hy na skool dadelik betaal word. Die amerikaanse systeem het dit klaar bewys dis hoekom hulle college / Varsity sport so groot is die sterre speel daar en hang nie vir 6maande by die unie rond nie.
    Ja ons gaan dalk seuns verloor oorsee, die mark oorsee is ook net so groot daar is nie plek vir al die younsters nie.

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  102. @tzavosky: Besides the pool of players on conventional union contracts, most of the unions also retain a secondary pool of players via university bursaries, coupled with small retainers and/or match fees. I suspect the pool of players at US, UCT, UWC, UJ, Wits, Tukkies, Pukke and Kovsies will grow in accordance with the reduction in players that are conventionally contracted. Maybe this will create an excellent opportunity for those in charge of Varsity Cup to promote the neglected Young Guns competition along the same lines as Varsity Cup proper, as I have no doubt it will draw bigger viewer and spectator numbers than the jnr provincial compos if marketed correctly

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  103. @Smallies: Agreed. I attended a game a few years ago between Alabama and Ole Miss. The stadium was packed for 5 hours despite the fact that it was like an oven in there and no booze was allowed, or sold. Fortunately, some ‘Bama fans took pity on me and gave me a cup of a mixture of Mellow Yellow and Bourbon! They snuck the latter in via hip flasks. :lol: :lol:

    The Alabama stadium’s capacity is 101,900 and it’s always full despite the town (Tuscaloosa) only having a population of 90,000. Ole Miss’ capacity is 64,000 and it is mostly full, despite the town (Oxford, Mississippi) only having a population of 23,000. I had to fly to Memphis and then take a 1.5 hour Uber trip to get to Oxford, so it’s not even easy to get there….and yet they fill up a 64,000 stadium for almost every home game – that’s passion!

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  104. @tzavosky: Ek stem volkome met jou saam. @Vleis: @Smallies: @BoishaaiPa: @pietretief:
    Die Klub rugby benadering dink ek persoonlik gaan nie werk nie.Eerstens het hulle nie geld op hul gatte te krap nie. Wie gaan kyk nog klub rugby. Die meeste manne wat ek by klub rugby sien is die man wat n paar doppe wil gaan vat wat sy vrou nie van weet nie! Die was puik in amateurs rugby! Kom ons wees nou eerlik met onsself. Kom ons se n klub stadion is vol toeskouers. Hoeveel mense op op daardie stadion? 1000? Lyk moerse op TV. Die stadion is vol. Sit daardie selfde mense op Loftus en dit is n handjie vol.
    Varsity Cup: Behalwe vir miskien Potch, Stellenbosch en soms FS is dieselfde maar ter sprake as by klubs.
    Dan is daar nog n reeks van permantasies van wie aan varsity/Young guns mag deelneem. Jy MOET swot. Dan moet jy nie net swot nie as jy in tweede jaar wil speel moet jy regte hoeveelheid krediete he. Dit is moeiliker as wat mense dink aangesien die manne wat dit(rugby) ernstig opneem miskien so 20% van tyd by klas kan uitkom!Nou praat ek nie eens van da moet soveel 2de jaar in span en soveel van kleur en en en wees nie. Dus kry n klein handjievol wel geleentheid. Die res sit op die paviljoen en hou skare nommers hoog.
    Eers was voorstel om 0/19 en 0/21 te vervang met 0/20 en 0/23. Wat sin gemaak het agv die 0/20 internationale kompetisie. Dit sou ons pool spelers gesond gehou het vir die toekoms.

    Nou na dit als. Hoekom word die 0/19 en 0/21 wedstryde so sleg bygewoon?
    My bliksem wie van julle werk op n Vrydag 11uur of self nog 1uur. Seker 98% van werkende bevolking. So wie moet dit gaan kyk? Die werkloses?
    Ek kan om die dood nie verstaan wie hierdie stupid reeling uitgedink het nie!!!!
    Vroeer jare het jy na n stadion toe gegaan n skool wedstryd gekyk dan n 0/19 dan 0/21 dan n hoofwedstryd. Goeie waarde vir geld.Ek dink Unies is deesdae meer bekommerd oor hoe die gras in stadion lyk as oor hoeveel mense egter die rugby kom kyk!!
    As jy wil he meer mense moet kom kyk dan moet jy meer mense lok. Of nie?

    Verander eerder hierdie formaat as wat jy nou die hele appelkar wil om bliksem. SARU donner nou die dink sommer nog verder op.

    En as jy tot hier gelees het baie geluk. Nee wat die klub en varsity ding gaan nie vir my werk nie.

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  105. @Ploegskaar: Ploeg jy dit reg oor bemarking. Ek het my dood gesoek om enige inligting oor die 0/19 of 0/20 kompetisie te kry. Seker as jy die normale rugby ondersteuner vra gaan ook vir jou se “nee pok ek weet nie”. Dit word dood eenvoudig nie bemark nie!!!
    En daarin le die antwoord. Hoef nie iets nuuts uit te dink nie. Verbeter net dit wat tans bestaan.

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  106. Selfs met die aanbreek van die professionele era het die All Blacks nie uitmekaar geval nie en is hulle NPC nog steeds van uitstaande kwaliteit.

    Met ons enorme poel van talentvolle skool spelers moet ons wereld rugby oorheers, maar ons skiet ons self in die voet. Ek verstaan dat ons baie spelers aan oorsee afstaan, maar hoe slaag NZ daarin om die situasie te oorbrug?

    ‘N afriger soos Nick Mallett sou in NZ verseker amper in ‘n Wayne Smith rol aangewend gewees het, hier sit hy en twak praat op die tv.

    Ons het toegang gehad tot John Mitchell, wat as die vader van die moderne NZ patroon beskou word. Wend ons sy kundigheid aan? Nope.

    Ek dink ‘n /20 kompetisie met vasgestelde salaris skale en ‘n NFL tipe draft sal wondere verrig vir SA rugby.

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  107. @Riempies: @Ploegskaar: @pietretief: @BoishaaiPa: Ek praat nou sommer oor hoe dinge in die 70’s in Pretoria was. Tuks, Weermag, Polisie het 4 o20 spanne gehad, waarvan die C en D spanne o19’s was, Pretoria, Harlequins, Gevangenis, Oostelikes, Adelaars, NKP het ‘n o20 A en B span gehad.

    Tuks/Weermag/Polisie se A en B spanne en die oop klubs se A spanne het in die O20A kompetisie gespeel, die geslote klubs se C&D spanne en die oop klubs se B spanne het in die o20B liga gespeel. Dit alles nou volgens my falende geheue.

    En elke koshuis op Tuks het ‘n o19 A en B span gehad, en ek dink daar was soortgelyke spanne by Weermag en Polisie.

    Dis ‘n moerse klomp spelers wat geakkommodeer is, ook die outjies wat nie akademies gerig was nie. Ek kan beswaarlik sien dat ons weer by so ‘n stelsel gaan uitkom, behalwe by die varsities, waar o19 in elk geval vervang is met o20’s by koshuisrugby (minstens op Tuks). Maar dit laat die nie-akademiese outjies grootliks in die duister.

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  108. @Riempies: die ding wat my boos maak is dat ons n stelsel gehad het wat gewerk het(currie beker) saru het toe gegaan en die kompetiesie wat vir ons stadeons sois loftus en ellispark gebou het afgewater ten koste van superugby, en wie het superugby nou eintlik bevoordeel, NZL dis al land wat voordeel trek uit superugby

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  109. Klubrugby in die huidige formaat werk net nie meer nie. Daar is egter wel ‘n ander voorstel wat ek wil maak. Daar moet net ‘n plaasvervanger vir die huidige klubrugbystelsel gevind word. As mens kyk waar lê die passie, is dit by skole. Daar is baie seuns wat nog na skool wil rugby speel op ‘n amateurvlak vir die lekker daarvan en nie in terme van ‘n kontrak nie. Die klubs het nog die infrastruktuur wat benut kan word. Dit moet net deur ‘n oudskolegroep oorgeneem, benut en bestuur word.

    In Pretoria byvoorbeeld:

    Die Oud-Menlo-Manne kan so geleentheid gebruik om die nuwe sportgronde op die N1-N4 kruising wat hulle het ontwikkel en ‘n klub stig.

    Affies kan die Pretoriaklubfasiliteite oorneem en ‘n klub stig.

    Garsfontein kan ‘n ooreenkoms aangaan met Mooikloof en fasiliteite daar skep.

    Centurion-ou-manne en Eldoraign-ou-manne kan die Centurionklubfasiliteite deel en benut.

    Waterkloof kan by Pretoria-Countryklub iets aan die gang sit.

    Net ‘n gedagte…

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  110. @Cappie: Beste voorstel ooit!Garsies Quins gronde!Dit bring onmiddelik die passie terug…Almal moet oop klubs wees,speel in die Skool se 1ste span trui…Sal in PTA Soos n BOM werk.Die probleem le nie in wat se compo moet wegval of bykom nie..die besluit word nog steeds deur onbevoegde persone geneem..dis waar die probleem le,die enigste probleem,enige compo kan n sukses wees onder competent bestuur en visa versa…

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  111. @Smallies: Yep, there are 8 college stadiums above 100,000 and another 8 above 90,000. There are some 65 college stadiums with greater capacity than Ellis Park…and they are mostly full. Imagine that, every weekend there are over 33 college games with more supporters than a packed Ellis Park! 8-O 8-O

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  112. @Vleis: College Football is WAY bigger than rugby union. That is reality and a fact. Perhaps some ‘welcome to reality’ is needed from some blind sided rugby enthusiasts :)

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  113. @Smallies: Praat so van budget

    tyd dat SARFU oorweeg om die vrystaat as rugbyunie toe te maak

    hulle senior spanne is n verleentheid.o20 s wen baarliks n wedstryd,die Cravenweekspan was power en Grey is nou en dan goed as hulle spelers van ander provinsies koop-dit is net nie n natuurlike rugbyarea nie

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  114. @Smallies: ons is nie perfek nie

    en ons gaan Nuweland verkoop vir n r350m wins-huidige bestuur behoort daai geldjies vinnig uit te piepie maar nou ja

    speel julle nog 019? nie eens geweet nie-waar le julle op die log?-bo die op? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

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  115. @boerboel: julle gaan uitermatig gelukkig wees as julle 200 mil kry, die sharks weet julle is desperaat en gaan nie oor hulle voete val nie, baie makliker om te wag vir die bankrot veiling en die plek vir 100 of dalk 75 mil te koop…

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  116. Dit gaan lekker wees om Christian teen Janco te sien asook David teen Prince. Divan Enslin kry die naweek dalk sy eerste geleentheid van die jaar om ‘n plek vir homself oop te baklei.

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  117. Menere – hier is ‘n paar lekker idees wat verder gevoer kan word. Ek kom nie baie by Nuweland nie, want ek kan wedstryde in vrede in my woonkamer kyk – meer gemaklik, goedkoper en ek beland nie na die tyd in die moeilikheid nie. As daar ‘n lekker onder 14 wedstryd voor die tyd was of selfs die CW span of selfs onder 20 sou ek beslis gegaan het. Om bykans R1000 (all the bells and whistles) uit te gee is net nie aan nie.

    Die begin van Superrugby het ongewenste gevolge gehad wat seker nie voorsien. Superrugby is vir almal die melkkoei. Nie ons of NZ of Australie kan sonder hierdie finansiele inspuiting staande bly nie. In al drie lande het dit tot gevolg gehad dat hul premier plaaslike kompetisies skade gelei het. Kyk na NZ se National Championships – elke Saterdag en Sondag. Hul skares is selfs minder as by ons. In Australie was daar nie eintlik iets soos die Curriebeker nie. Die toeskouers by hul premier kompetisie lyk soos wanneer Wellington teen Ceres speel. Al verskil is dat NZ daarin geslaag het om meer van sy spelers te behou. Beslis te doen met die waarde van hul geldeenheid teenoor die pond en euro.

    Klubrugby in die Boland is baie gesond. By van die derbies op Worcester is daar gereeld 10 000 toekouers.

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  118. @chief: Ek is bly Enslin is daar, en ja dit is n belangrikke naweek vir WP, Lions , Bulle en Sharks u19. Die 2 games gaan dalk semi fixtures bepaal.

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  119. @A4ie:

    Nie dat grote alles is in rugby nie maar tweede helfde skuif Divan buitesenter toe en Rikus binne toe. Dit behoort ‘n groot senterpaar te wees. Solaan speel self baie goeie rugby en Coetzer behoort ‘n meer aanvallende wedstryd te bied vir WP.

    Horn gaan ‘n groot impak moet maak, die pak is vir my onder standaard. Vrystaat se pak was selfs beter laasweek.

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  120. O19 Leeus 41 – 32 WP. My man of the match is Cal Smid the Lions captain from Rondebosch with other candidates Janco van Heyningen and Kennedy Mpheku. Nobody in the WP pack impressed me

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  121. @Smallies: Hul het op n stadium vir hom die bal gegee met 3 WP spelers voor hom ongeveer 6 meter van die kantlyn af op die kwartlyn. Ek/Almal het gedink dit was n swak opsie. Paar sekondes later druk hy n prag drie.

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  122. @OppiMoot, great berig van Rekord met die admin wenners van’82 saam die Jaar se span wat Verseker gewen het.Sad dat 5 van daai span Al oorlede is😞Daai was ysters en niemand sal hulle vergeet nie…

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  123. @Grizzly: Dit was voorwaar n voorreg om die aand saam die manne te kon spandeer. Ons seuns het lekker saam hulle gekuier. Ons het ook die voorreg gehad dat die 82 spankaptein ons seuns se truie voor die finaal kon uitdeel. Daar is n baie spesiale band geskep tussen die twee spanne.

    Dalk is dit nie so slegte ding om nie elke jaar die trofee te wen (36 jaar uit mekaar is dalk ook n bietjie lank) maar dit maak jou baie dinge en geleenthede erg wardeer.

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  124. @beet:

    Ek glo al die provinsies stuur sekerlik alle wedstryde deur na Chean toe? (Indien niemand hom al gesien het nie 😂)

    Die U20 Groep begin vroeg hierdie jaar (glo in November) met die eerste kamp.

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  125. @chief: Yeah I think the video footage being sent to the u20 coach has been standard procedure for a number of years. Dawie Theron also liked to ask the coaches for their opinions on opposing team players, which he found useful. But nothing better than sending time with the players in person and watching the matches live.

    Always nice to hear about a proactive approach.

    Perhaps the u20 coaching staff should organise a venue and get all union teams plus 1 to play proper matches in a festival like rugby day early in 2019. This would allow them to view and assess more players, just in case a few showed a change in form to merit inclusion or exclusion from the selection process.

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  126. @beet:

    Ek stem saam maar daardie ouens (SARU) doen dinge mos net altyd anders as wat ons normale rugby liefhebber dit sou wou doen.

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