By Tang
South Africa is a country renowned for its rich sporting culture, with rugby holding a special place in the hearts of many. The sport, particularly at the schoolboy level, is almost a religion in some regions. Prestigious schools pour substantial resources into their rugby programs, parents invest heavily in their children’s rugby aspirations, and old boys passionately support their alma mater’s first rugby team. However, this obsession with schoolboy rugby, while producing some of the world’s finest rugby talent, may be stunting the broader development of South African sports. This myopic focus is particularly detrimental when considering South Africa’s performance on the Olympic stage, especially when compared to countries like the Netherlands, which have embraced a more diversified approach to sports development.
The Obsession with Schoolboy Rugby
In South Africa, rugby is more than just a game; it’s a cultural phenomenon. The first XV rugby team at many schools enjoys a level of support that other sports teams can only dream of. Schools are ranked, players are scouted, and scholarships are offered, all in the name of building the best rugby team possible. Some schools go so far as to recruit players from other provinces, an act that underscores the competitive nature and the significant resources devoted to the sport.
Parents and alumni, often former players themselves, live vicariously through the schoolboy rugby teams. This creates immense pressure on young athletes, who are groomed for rugby from a young age, sometimes to the exclusion of other sports. The focus on rugby is so intense that other sports are often seen as secondary, if they are given attention at all.
The Cost of a Rugby-Centric Sports Culture
While this intense focus on rugby has helped South Africa maintain its status as a rugby powerhouse, it has come at a cost. The single-mindedness of this approach has led to the neglect of other sports, many of which are key contributors to Olympic success. Athletics, swimming, cycling, and other individual sports are often underfunded and overlooked at the school level, where foundational skills and interests are typically developed.
In contrast, countries like the Netherlands have adopted a more holistic approach to sports. The Dutch invest heavily in a wide range of sports disciplines from a young age, fostering a culture that values participation and excellence across the board. This broad-based development strategy has paid dividends on the Olympic stage. The Netherlands, a country with a population of just over 17 million, consistently punches above its weight at the Olympics, excelling in a variety of sports, from speed skating to cycling to swimming.
The Olympic Comparison: South Africa vs. The Netherlands
The disparity in Olympic performance between South Africa and the Netherlands is stark. South Africa, with a population of nearly 60 million, has historically underperformed at the Olympics relative to its size. In recent Olympic Games, South Africa’s medal tally has been modest, with successes largely coming from individual athletes who have often had to seek training and support outside the traditional school system.
The Netherlands, on the other hand, regularly ranks among the top countries in the Olympic medal standings. Their success is not confined to a single sport; instead, the Dutch excel in a variety of disciplines. This is a direct result of their inclusive sports culture, where children are encouraged to pursue multiple sports, and where resources are distributed more equitably across different athletic programs.
A Call for Diversification in South African School Sports
For South Africa to improve its Olympic performance and develop a more balanced sports culture, there needs to be a shift in focus at the school level. While rugby should and will always remain a significant part of South African culture, it should not come at the expense of other sports. Schools need to broaden their sports programs, encouraging participation in a wide range of activities. This not only fosters a more inclusive environment but also allows students to discover and develop talents in sports other than rugby.
Parents and old boys also need to adjust their expectations. While it’s natural to want to see one’s school excel, the well-being of young athletes and the development of a well-rounded sports culture should take precedence over the pursuit of rugby glory. Schools should be places where young people can explore their potential in all areas, including but not limited to rugby.
Conclusion
The current South African school sports culture, with its overwhelming focus on rugby, is a double-edged sword. While it has produced world-class rugby players, it has also contributed to the underdevelopment of other sports, which is reflected in South Africa’s underwhelming Olympic performances. By looking to countries like the Netherlands, South Africa can learn the value of a diversified approach to sports, one that nurtures talent across a broad spectrum of disciplines and, in turn, enhances its international sporting achievements.
It’s time for South Africa to broaden its sporting horizons and invest in the future of all its young athletes, not just those who can tackle and scrum.
…at the risk of joining this discussion after it has concluded.
Consider the case of Uzbekistan… humble nation, not a rich country by any means and not exactly known for sporting prowess.
8 Olympic GOLD Medals (13 medals in total)
5 for Boxing
1 for Taekwando (+ a silver)
1 for Judo (+ 2 bronze)
1 for Wrestling (+ a bronze)
and a Weightlifting Silver
So all of the golds were for fighting sports…
I’m sure they would like rugby…
@Bungee (Comment #124)
Ek sal nie verbaas wees as die meerderheid olympians dalk nog uit tradisionele sterk rugby skole kom nie ….eenvoudig net omdat daardie skole gewoonlik sterk is in baie ander sporte ook,ironies is twee van Grey se grootste helde op sport gebied nie rugby spelers nie …
@Smallies (Comment #41)
En moet ook nie vergeet van julle singl-minded op rugby opponente van Saterdag wat 4 Olympians (alhoewel een vir sevens is) en 2 paralympians die jaar het nie.
@Smallies (Comment #119)
‘n Interessante gevallestudie is die legendariese paalspringer van die 80’s en vroeë 90’s, Sergey Bubka. Hy het die wêreldrekord 35 keer verbeter. Nadat die USSR in 1991 opgebreek het, het hy vir die Oekraïene deelgeneem. Nike het hom toe ‘n kontrak aangebied waar hy 40 000 US dollar betaal word vir elke verbetering van die rekord – hy het dit nog 7 keer gedoen, 1cm op ‘n keer. ‘n 1992 dollar is ‘n bietjie meer as 3x die waarde van vandag s’n, so hy het om en by 1m hedendaagse dollar verdien met daai 7 pogings.
Nou volg Armand du Plantis dieselfde 1cm op ‘n keer strategie!
@Tang (Comment #116)
I think the discussion is the right one to have, but the comparison with rugby is opportunistic and unfortunate. Our rugby players are able to create a living internationally based on the coaching and interest of parents.
We do not have the facilities for the sports of elites. We have soccer, netball, cricket and rugby. Of those, we are able to be world contenders in only two. Yet we struggle to dominate in the two sports with most participants?
Schools are making an enormous effort – not their fault. If you want to win more medals (big if, because why is it important?) then you will have to invest in the best athletes and not administration. Our women javelin medal example – no investment from ASA.
Cannot compare population size when there is large difference in funding and merit identification.
@Roger (Comment #120)
Hey Roger. I agree with both you and Tang, but I just do not think his statement is complete without mention of available government funds, and yours, based on population size, without mentioning Human Development Index (NZ .937, Netherlands ,941 South Africa ,741). Our government is pathetic in this regard, but even if they were top notch, without the funds, especially after investing in HDI, they can never match developed countries. Unfortunately, a few trillion was leaked by corruption too. We are much better than 6 medals. PS: I doubt we have to spread our trade surplus and borrowings among 60 million people only, probably closer to 75 million.
@Deon (Comment #118)
ok, so compare NZ’s GDP to SA ? $250 billon vs $380 billion. Per capita NZ = $46k and SA $6k. We won 6 medals and New Zealand 20. We have 60 million people and they have 5 million. Surely surely surely we are better than 6 medals?? Saw an interview with Jo-Ann Van Dyk saying she has received fokkal support from the government and if it were not for her family, she would not be able to compete. That’s pathetic – if she was in NZ or Holland her talent would be nurtured and celebrated. Perhaps this is Tang’s point – outside of rugby, cricket and football – there is very little financial support. How can we produce such brilliant schoolboy and girl hockey players, waterpolo players, netball players and athletes and then they all drop into a void thereafter!
@Deon (Comment #118)
@Tang (Comment #116)
I think Dok Tsavoski has hit the nail on the head ….olympic success can be 100% attributed to how much money you invest into your olympic program …and we invest the bare minimum ,and of that little money 75% gets stolen by administrators…
@Tang (Comment #117)
Hey mate. Not really such a good comparison. Compare NZ vs SA Gross/Net domestic Product and Purchasing Power Parity. Hardly the fault of sportsmen or mechanisms.
@Grasshopper (Comment #3)
I agree 100%. New Zealand don’t have better talent than SA. They just have a better mechanism to unlock and utilise the talent. New Zealnd is probably also a better comparison given the rugby culure. New Zealand punch way above their weight at the Olympics. New Zealand produced 20 medals at the Paris Olympics. 10 Gold, 7 Silver and 3 Bronze. They produce 1 medal per 256,000 people.
@Kantman (Comment #2)
My evidence was the underwhelming performance at the Olympics. I contrasted South South Africa to the Netherlands. The Netherlands produced 34 medals – 15 Gold, 7 Silver and 12 Bronze. The Netherlands has a population of around 17 Million people which would then equate to 1 Medal per 485,000 people. South Africa produced 6 medals – 1 Gold, 3 Silver and 2 Bronnze. South Africa has a population of around 60 Million which equates to 1 Medal per 10 Million people. I also used the Netherlands because talent is funnelled into clubs rather than schools. Children in the Netherlands are encouraged to play as many sports as possible. The goal is to find talent, nurture talent and then allow talent to excel.
I know the whole topic is a lot broader than School Boy Rugby. Government funding plays a huge role. I have been fascinated for many years why South Africa has not achieved it’s full potential at the Olympic games. Why can’t our Water Polo talent go further than school level? Why can’t our athletics talent consistently produce more medals? I think school boy rugby plays a part in taking a focus off talent discovery and nurturing.
@Smallies (Comment #114)
Ons sal jou genoeg tyd gee!!Tenminste n week voor die tyd,ek stres nie oor jou nie,Deon en kie moet daar wees… 😂
@Grizzly (Comment #113)
Eks bietjie ver weg nou 🤣🤣 maar vir konteks daai roadhouse waar julle was is so 1,5 km van waar ons gebly het af weg ….
@Smallies (Comment #112)
Ok lekker,maar my seun vra my pa wats hierdie blog ding??Maak asb n dat dat ons kan ontmoet,eerste mting in Brakpan,julle name die venue en laat Deon net nie daar wees nie!!!
@Grizzly (Comment #111)
Early 90,s was ek al kla met skool gewees,is 91 na Kovsies maar branna was toe nog my beste pel,so dit het nie lank gehou nie ,mind you as ek dalk B Comm economics geleer het kon dit seker baie beter gegaan het…en op hoerskool het jy 50 gery hoe warmer hoe beter…na skool het ek geupgrade na n Golf GTI mrk1….
@kantako (Comment #109)
Ek het van Pta se kant gekom en was geskok met die plastic view.Maar ek belowe jou niks maak my bang na wat ek gesien het in my lewe nie.Ek try bona fida na daai dorp kyk.Ek emagine Smallies in die early 90’s op sy BMX rule die strate.Ek kan die mooi in die dorp sien.Eks nie blind vir wat hier en die res van SA gebeur nie maar ek gaan nie die Grasshopper way gaan nie.Daai greens is fantasties,hats off!!
Just returned from a very relaxing long weekend in Kruger Park with the family and noticed that I’ve missed a mudslinging contest of epic proportions!
BUT, I thought I’ll give my (not asked for!) opinion on nationalities’ Olympic prowess and success. It boils down to this (and some of you have alluded to it): Olympic success is mostly an expression of a country’s economic power, be that by way of private sponsorship of athletes (USA, for example) or state sponsorship (China). Nothing more, nothing less.
And here’s another interesting fact: compare the number of medals won by the host nation to the number they’ve won in the preceding two Olympics for the last 20 years, or so. It jumps at you: the host nation generally does considerably better than what they’ve done in the previous editions. This is not coincidence, but points to the fact that they’ve invested heavily in financial support for their athletes to shine on home ground, and the prestige that goes with that.
South Africa simply don’t have the funds to invest in some elite activity when the most basic of needs of so many people can’t be met…
@Grizzly (Comment #101)
Volgende keer moet jy net vra, dan reel ons vir jou iets ordentliks in Brakkies, dis n jammer die Casbah roadhouse het toegemaak. @smallies is reg die mighty mince pizza by Casablanca was n masjien. Jy kan ook nie verkeerd gaan met enige slapchips winkel nie.
Jy is baie braaf om enige baan in Brakpan te speel (ek was baie lank n member by Royal Oak) hy staan nou bekend as Royal Joke met plastic city se illegal plakkers, en State mines was altyd die mooier baan, maar die plakkers het oorgeneem ek hoor as jy jou bal gaan soek word jy sommer graag aangeval vir jou gholfstel of geld. Dis hartseer.
Sterkte vir julle wedstryd teen Brakpan Hoerskool die naweek in die Semi Final.
@OUD ANKER (Comment #107)
Daai softserve caramel cup wat hulle gemaak het was ook gif gewees…
@Grizzly (Comment #101)
As jy weer ‘n golf trip doen daar na die anderkant van die Boerewors gordyn, oorweeg om State Mines te jol…in my opinie selfs beter as Royal Oak…..en ek weet nou wat julle by Casablanca geëet het nie, maar hulle mince pizza is (was) legendaries, veral in die vroeë oggend ure na ‘n harde party….
@Grasshopper (Comment #99)
With a comment like this you might want to consider giving your SA passport up….
@Roger (Comment #100)
No Roger, I hate talking oppression, especially since I was never oppressed. But I do mention it when oppressors claim they were oppressed, in the rugby world nogal. The Boer War is long over. It belongs in history books along with anything divisive. The Holocaust is over too. I lost a great grandmother in each of those two events, yet we still hear of one of those events, daily almost. Not of the Bengali genocide though, which happened at the same time as the Holocaust. Just saying.
@Grizzly (Comment #101)
Fantasties.
@Grizzly (Comment #101)
My home town ….
@Roger (Comment #100)
Roger ons het niks verloor nie.As kritzenger nie die plase getorched het en die vroue en kinders in konsentrasie kampe gegooi het nie(lank voor die Nazis,COWARDS)sou Great Britain se president vandag 10-1 n van Der Merwe of Botha gewees het…….
@Deon (Comment #97)
@Smallies (Comment #92)
En Oud Anker.Vrydag saam my seun Royal Oak gespeel in Brakpan.Wat n fantasies baan.Seker van die vinigste greens wat ek al gespeel het.Half way house se ek vir hom kom ons skeep en kry net n draught dan gaan eet ons na die tyd by een van Brakpan se legendary road house n burger.Na die rondte Google ek en ons besluit op Gasablanca.Dit was tops!!Nice om te sien waar julle bulle die strate gerule het in Jul tyd! 👍👍😂
Another silver for SA – lekker – mooi! Women’s javelin. Heh @deon – I saw you talking “oppression” on another thread. You don’t sound too oppressed boet? Smart fella, well travelled? What you on about? Surely you are not still bitter over the Boer War? 120 years ago now – forgive and forget heh? I mean – the old Boer Generals assumed power not even 8 years later. They lost the war but won the peace!
@Grant (Comment #98)
I will, stay in shithole SA Grant, dumbass!
@Grasshopper (Comment #96)
Alan. Please do not come back to South Africa. Stay in your Caliphate mud island with your race riots. We don’t want you.
@Grasshopper (Comment #96)
All good. Suggestion, go eat at Konstantin as the resort buffet you and wifey are about to eat for supper is not what it says it is. The mutton is goat (which is fine but it is not Karoo or Vleisstaat mutton/lamb), the veggies and fruit are all from Italy or Turkey, the “Mediterranean crabs” are cheapie Dungeness crabs from the USA, all foreign to Europe, just like you. Then go sit on Skala and dream of South African Ship (SAS) Scala in Simonstown. You do you Locust, no problem, just do not tell us how to do us. We choose Africa, the smell of bokboegoe, burned banana fields, and new opportunities for those who love the Mother Continent, the continent of dreams, as hazy as they may be. Next time opt for Mombasa in Kenya or Sao Martinho dos Tigres in Angola, or drink Singapore Slings better than those in Raffles or anywhere in the Malacca Straits, in the middle of Angola at Flamingo, eat coconut crusted kawa kawa in Costa do Sol in Moz (the clam is not bad either, just that Macaneta sand….) Buy your wife some Ylang Ylang , I have a good contact in Lobito Port (some nice Porra olive groves on the way to the mountains) Evolve brother, evolve. Africa is the best. I feel her in my blood and it is no longer necessary to see her only from a Daphne class sub. Even pissies can do it.
@Deon (Comment #93)
You do you and I’ll do me…..bye
@Deon (Comment #94)
Clueless ostrich….
@Grasshopper (Comment #91)
Lindos? Oh, how lower middle class.
@Grasshopper (Comment #91)
Draw a Keynesian graph on supply and demand of happiness, rather Hopper happiness on one axis, number of medals won by Not-so-Great Britain on the other. I watched an old white tannie and oom of 91 go apeshit of happiness when we won that silver in the relay, and watching that, given our history, was worth way more than all your medals. Botswana’s holiday because of their first gold obviously meant more to them than your new country’s medals too. There is no Ricardian diminishing return on the happiness we draw from our few achievements, and at least we live in a lekker shithole, not a terrible one like you.
@Grasshopper (Comment #90)
Ja boet I do actually have two degrees ….even though I work in the four corners
@Kaya 85 (Comment #86)
Yes, in Lindos on Rhodes, Greece, in 38 degrees, swimming, taking in proper history and culture, very far away from a bridge, bog or moor….celebrating Great Britain’s 58 medals and Ireland’s 7 medals, 2 more than SA with a population of only 5 million…it’s like a national party in SA per medal won it’s so infrequent…
@Smallies (Comment #89)
Very clever for a Brakkie…
@Kaya 85 (Comment #87)
Before you congratulate them just check if there’s not an Irishman better thaaaaa…..nevermind yes that was two sprinting performances of note even if we dont CONSISTENTLY win we’ll take the silwer in this meaningless once off competition…
@Snelvuur (Comment #22)
Correct. It is only ‘slightly’ more complicated…but not a LOT more…
Congrats to our 4 x 100m relay men!! Also note that with the Tebogo Botswana gold in the 200m there were also 2 (not 1 but 2) Zimbabweans in that final…add this up and we have a rising powerhouse of athletics right here in southern Africa…I celebrated Tebogo’s gift, Botswana’s Gold with as much pride (almost) as Tatjana GOLDSmith…
@Palma (Comment #84)
He is a crow-eating troll living under a bridge over a boggy moore with nothing better to do….
@Palma (Comment #84)
I don’t think Ireland are the best, not by a long way. I’m
Irish so they are my 2nd team. I just don’t think the Boks are all conquering world beaters yet. If they can consistently beat the ABs, France, England & Ireland in the coming 3 to 4 years then yes, they can claim that. I mean they’ve lost already since the WC. WC’s are important in modern times, in the history of rugby not yet. They are all about who can be the best for 6 weeks….
@Grasshopper (Comment #65)
I’m not sure if you are being serious or looking for reactions, mate how can you say that world cups are meaningless? Springboks and All Blacks record in the WC shows not only that they are the best from a historical perspective, but it also shows that the Springboks probably have more leverage when it comes to who is the best in the world at this very moment. Ireland are a great team and if you believe they are the best in the world that’s fine, but their constant implosions at every world cup shows they do not have the mental fortitude of the Springboks or All Blacks
@Grasshopper (Comment #82)
Sure buddy sure….
@Smallies (Comment #81)
Biggest fallacy from the locals in SA, it’s easy to emigrate! Funniest thing about be ever heard. Easiest thing to do is stay & put your head in the sand. You go where the money & where your kids have a future, and that is just not SA I’m afraid. Traitors! Ja, like the Dutch who founded the Cape, traitors!
@Grasshopper (Comment #78)
Sure budy… thats why you ran away….
@Smallies (Comment #76)
It’s 4 gazillion! 😂🤣
@Smallies (Comment #75)
So by beating two teams out of three, the Sharks are the worst? Ok…
@Smallies (Comment #77)
I’m from the Bluff, makes Brakpan look like a kids play school area….Wentworth exactly, even better…I’m proud of where I come from, it’s given me the fight, will power, life learning & other things people won’t understand….an Afrikaans community living next to coloured gangs…..
@Grasshopper (Comment #73)
Here’s the thing you dont seem to grasp ….trying to insult my Brakpan roots is not really very smart ,please note I said trying, because you definitely are not suceeding ,you see sweetheart I am EXTREMELY proud of my past and of the town I grew up in….I wear the Brakpan logo with pride ,that town shaped me and moulded me in ways you proparbly will never understand…like South Africa its part of who I am and I embrace it ….
@Grasshopper (Comment #73)
I did acknowledge that Glenwood has been around like 200 million years ….
@Grasshopper (Comment #73)
Lets just put this into the right context so you can understand….the Sharks lost FIRST ROUND to WP they then dropped down to the loosers group and beat SWD ….and then beat the Bulls the last day ,a Bulls team that proparbly had THE HARDEST draw of all the Craven week teams and were properly knackered the last day from loosing an epic semi final against Greystaat and playing the lions opening round…nit to mention that they had a day less rest …
@Smallies (Comment #72)
Nope, the series win in NZ is what counts the most to proper Irish rugby supporters….not made up tacky WC games..
@Smallies (Comment #71)
Classic dom comment! The Sharks beat SWD and the Bulls at Craven week, lost by 10 to WP. Not exactly the weakest province and Glenwood have been around longer than most Vaal schools. Brakkies don’t have the biggest brains, just the biggest appetite for Klippes and coke it seems…
@Grasshopper (Comment #70)
I bet R 1000 000 that they would sacrifice that win in Durban for just one quarter final win….
@Grasshopper (Comment #68)
History do not equate to greatness look at Glenwood ,been around for 500 000 years yet still only a mid table school in proparbly the weakest schoolboy rugby province in South Africa….
@Smallies (Comment #67)
And how they lost to Ireland in Durban at the end of the Irish season with 7 of their starters not starting……all conquering yes….😂
@Grasshopper (Comment #65)
Keo has about as much rugby knowledge than you have of maths…
@Smallies (Comment #66)
Hahaha! Never heard of it, probably founded in like 1960….
@Grasshopper (Comment #63)
Yes they do….remember how they just had to pitch up in France to winn the World Cup…..
@Grasshopper (Comment #51)
Dumbass school ,dude Stoffberg Brakpan of the 1980s would eat Glenwood for breakfast lunch and supper ….and Im not talking rugby
@Deon (Comment #59)
World Cups are meaningless, made up tournaments where flash-in-pan sides can win them. Listen to your friends Keo & Zels, they’ve finally come out of their Bok haze….not as good as they think they are…
@Snelvuur (Comment #61)
Not 50, 26 point margin…
@Smallies (Comment #62)
Ireland don’t claim to be the best ever or as arrogant as Bok supporters…
@Grasshopper (Comment #56)
Ireland vs All Blacks
Played 37
All Blacks 31
Ireland 5
In Ireland
ALL Blacks 15
Ireland 2
Whaaaaaaahahahahahahahahah
13% win ratio for Ireland 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Oh and the Springboks have beaten the All Blacks 36 times more than the Irish that’s like 900% more
@Grasshopper (Comment #48)
Expecting 60 points plus?? Let’s quote your previous comment: “I’ve seen comments about beating Aus by 50 this weekend, not sure what they smoking. Joe Schmidt ain’t an idiot & this Aussie side is building.” So which is it Grassy? Or were you smoking too?
@Grasshopper (Comment #55)
So did Prof Correia or Flynn teach you at UKZN? Cost accounting, or were you not numerate enough?
@Grasshopper (Comment #51)
4 World cups vs 3, two less attempts. All conquering indeed. Don’t let that hout kop smoke too much making the Acc 2 calcs Grassy.
@Grasshopper (Comment #55)
Only the Mcaw Reed Era team the OTHERS seems to lose a lot more SEEMS,especially since SA left Superugby….funnely that coincides with the rise of Ireland ….I wonder if our involvement in the URC has anything to do with it
@Grasshopper (Comment #45)
Honours degree in Economics says you could not pass Accounting, Actuarial Science etc. You cannot count bro lmao.
@Smallies (Comment #52)
Boks vs ABs, played 106, won 40, lost 62, drawn 4. A 38% win ratio, pretty poor for an all conquering Bok team…
@Smallies (Comment #52)
Finally acceptance that the ABs were the best & based on all performances still the greatest rugby nation of all time……SA has a very long way to match wins…
@Grasshopper (Comment #51)
Dont see any maths there…..🤣🤣🤣🤣 I’m proparbly better at trigonometry than you and I work the yard for pay….when it comes to real mathematics, algebra ,meetkunde and trigonometry I’m probably Sheldon Cooper and you Penny
@Smallies (Comment #50)
Nope, Aussie team are just not there, couldn’t make WC knockouts & it’s their 8th biggest sport, can’t expect them to compete when they only have like 3 private schools that play union…
@Grasshopper (Comment #47)
You seem to think that we do not acknowledge the generational dominance that the All Blacks had ….they were without a shadow of a doudt a generational team, however they will not replicate that for at least 30 years, it was a phenomenon the likes of what rugby has never seen and proparbly never will again.
@Smallies (Comment #49)
Dumbass school that. BComm Honours in Economics includes Accountancy 1 & 2 plus Stats 1 & 2…I now head up a data science division where Python, R, SQL and other languages are needed, you have to be able to ‘somme’ to do that…
@Grasshopper (Comment #48)
You were expecting a SA loss….common now dont lie..
@Grasshopper (Comment #45)
When I was at school you took echonomics if you couldn’t do somme…
@Smallies (Comment #37)
Well done, only our 4th win on Aussie soil & against the weakest Aussie side in history! Hooha! I was expecting 60 points plus….
@Roger (Comment #38)
Completely agree with you. If SA can win around 90% for the next 4 years & then the WC again, then they can say they are the GOATs. Currently that belongs to the Richie McCaw era by miles!
@Kantman (Comment #40)
Agreed, but the drop off is astounding! From world beaters at school to nothing….
@Deon (Comment #43)
Honours degree in Economics means I battle with numbers….gosh their are too many cretins out there….
@Deon (Comment #42)
One game you numpty
@Snelvuur (Comment #36)
Don’t confuse Grassy with numbers.
@Grasshopper (Comment #33)
How did the All Blacks do today against Argentina?
@Kantman (Comment #40)
Insiggewend dat Suid Afrika se laaste manlike atletiek goue medalje wenner uit n skool kom wat kastig n single minded focus het op rugby…
@Grasshopper (Comment #32)
Menlo, Affies, Garsfontein, Waterkloof, Helpmekaar, Monnas, Noordheuwel, Driehoek, Grey College, Paarl Gim, HJS, PRG, Boland Landbou, Oakdale, Outeniqua, Stellenberg, Durbanville, etc. All have amazing athletics programs. Schools are not the problem – they develop great athletes. It is after school that there is not enough opportunities.
@Roger (Comment #38)
As long as the politicians/administrators stay away….that is key to everything that is also why school sport is healthy in SA
@Snelvuur (Comment #31)
Tiger Woods, Lewis Hamilton, Roger Federer didn’t win all the time but they dominated over long periods of time – undisputed. Although team and individual sports are difficult to compare, my point stands, the ‘Boks need to dominate rugby Union (and should) to be considered “great”. Having said that, I think this currrent ‘Bok team can do it. The talent and player depth is off the charts and they have an incredible coaching and managerial setup. As long as the politicians stay away – they can and should dominate for the next four years and win the treble!
@Grasshopper (Comment #33)
I see the not so good between world cups boks only just managed to beat Aussie
@Grasshopper (Comment #35)
Yep. Proteas won 410 out of their 672 ODIs = 61.01% win rate. Australia is the next best with 609 out of 1000 = 60.9%. No one else is above 53%.
@Snelvuur (Comment #34)
Really, interesting, any stats to back that up with? I know we were decent in the Jonty Rhodes era…
@Grasshopper (Comment #33)
On that metric, the Proteas are the standard bearers in ODI cricket – they have the best historic win percentage of any ODI team in the world.
@Roger (Comment #30)
Losing to Argentina in Durban, Japan, Wales, Scotland etc in my mind is unbelievable. Countries with nowhere near the same depth or prowess. The Boks are perennial under achievers. The World Cup is a pretty new thing, not even 40 years old. It doesn’t produce the best rugby team as the winner. For me, consistency counts. Grey Bloem lost to Jeppe, that was Jeppe’s final, doesn’t make Jeppe the best in the country. Grey Bloem with like a 90% win ratio over 110 years is the standard bearer, the best schoolboy rugby side in the world…consistently….the All Blacks are that too…
@Kantman (Comment #27)
Which part?
@Roger (Comment #30)
It might sound silly, but I’m not sure that, in a historic context, performances between World Cups matter all that much. E.g., the Proteas were the dominant team in ODI cricket in the late 90s and early 2000s, but Australia won the World Cups. That Australian team is heralded as the best ODI side ever, while that Proteas side isn’t even in the conversation. Do you remember Bolt’s record between his two Olympics gold medals, or do you remember the medals themselves? What was Lance Armstrong’s record in the other big cycling races between his Tour de France triumphs?
@Snelvuur (Comment #29) true, I’m arguing against myself. Surely though, we should be way better than a 60% win ratio? Either that’s our level and we have over achieved at the World Cup or our World Cup performances is where we should be and we’ve under achieved at test rugby outside of world cups
@Roger (Comment #28)
But your comment in itself demonstrates why the argument that our depth at school should translate to international domination is a non sequitur…
@Snelvuur (Comment #26) depth is only wonderful when you have injuries. Ironically, Union being such a minor sport in Aus benefits the Wallabies – they know exactly who their best 25 players are – I’m not sure we do. The USA could choose three 4x100m relay teams that could win gold. Didn’t help them tonight. My point is, with such wonderful depth, a schools and varsity league that is the envy of the world and such an abundance of natural talent we should be dominating world rugby.
@Grasshopper (Comment #3)
Do you have any data to support this? And keep it short please, if you can.
@Grasshopper (Comment #25)
Do you reckon many other sides would have more than 4 players in an all-time XV? Not too sure about that. Having great depth of talent at school level does not necessarily transfer to national performances because you don’t need 100 excellent players, but only 30 or so. If we had to match up our best four XVs against another country’s best four XVs, our third and fourth teams would smash them. And that’s no delusion. You know what they used to say about Andy Murray: if he wins, he’s a Briton, if he loses he’s a Scot…
@Roger (Comment #20)
Spot on! SA’s rugby prowess is overrated, I reckon 4 Boks would make a world all time best 15 at a push. I’ve seen comments about beating Aus by 50 this weekend, not sure what they smoking. Joe Schmidt ain’t an idiot & this Aussie side is building. With the talent we have at school level no country should come within 50 points at u18, u20 & Bok level but we scrape 1 point wins and claim to be be all conquering. Delusions of grandeur. The Uk has 56 medals vs SAs 5, some idiot Saffa a week ago said what’s great about Great Britain, well 10X the medals is the difference & will end up more….
Silver (yess!!) in the 4x100m with 18 and 19 yr old boys in the team. Our talent in SA is not the issue. Schools can only take them to a certain point. There is more than enough talent provided by schools for national administrators to work with post matric.
@Snelvuur (Comment #22)
And why is that? Again you can directly relate that to the incompetent administrators at ASA…sort out the corruption and politics and 75% of the problem is solved
@Smallies (Comment #21)
I think it’s slightly more complicated than that. I think schools create an excellent environment for high-performance athletes to be developed. And there are probably a hundred schools like that in SA. The problem is that there is not the same level of structures after school. Basically all our athletes come from Tuks, Maties or NWU. Those are our only feeders after school.
This might be seen as a bit of a radical dont rock the boat statement….our school sport is healthy Rugby ,Cricket ,Tennis,Hockey,Netball,Athletics ….all are fine and very well managed ….the problem is post school when political driven agendas takes over and the political choice becomes more important than the merit based one ….add to that the inherent corrupt nature of ALL our sport administrators and you get the situation where 150 athletes can only acumilate 4 medals …..politics and corruption simple as that…..
@Grasshopper (Comment #19) I agree – I love the ‘Boks and I love rugger but in the professional era New Zealand are the standard bearer. That All Black team between 2011-2015 that won back to back world cups and maintained a 90% win ratio between world cups was one of the best sporting teams on the planet – and the ‘Boks under Heyneke Meyer over that period had some phenomenal players too. Reality is, the ‘Boks have a +-60% win ratio in the professional era and (contentious I know) we have over achieved at world cups! Even Mark Keohane says it – “we are a great knock out rugby team – especially when are backs are against the wall”. Reality is – we are not as good as we think we are. I mean – just check our away record against Australia. A team that we should beat 7 times out of ten (home or away) – it’s pathetic!
@kantako (Comment #17)
Reality is rugby is not a truly global sport, the World Cup showed only 4 teams are really in it, maybe 8. SA has a skew towards this as it’s a religion in SA. World Cups are also the best over 6 weeks not the best over 4 years. Look at SAs record vs NZ, by far the greatest rugby nation by far. Losing to Wales, Japan & Argentina in the past decade or so isn’t really acceptable considering the focus on rugby. In the end, money buys success…..that is life….
@kantako (Comment #17)
Reality is none of these great athletes are getting through to the world stage, something is broken. That is the government’s financial support for these sports or lack of sponsorship from corporates. The SA athletics programme post school is like non existent, in other countries this is where they triple down. Athletes in the Uk are paid by the national lottery & get sponsorship from big sports brands. SA should be dominant in shotput, discus & javelin, nothing….
PERCEPTION VS REALITY
– do our school Athletes not have a higher strike rate to Professional Track and field
– is there no money/sponsorship for these athletes
Other school sport that also have fantastic structures and offer kids bursaries to schools with free education and boarding etc that can rank among the best school structures in the world are
– netball
– hockey
– water polo
– rowing
We have won 4/8 RWC there is no other country in the world that has a higher than 50% winning rate in ANY world Cup sport code. We should invest MORE into our school rugby programs and make our rugby even stronger and give more kids the opportunity to earn money in rugby. Its like saying to Spain they should stop scouting footballers at the age of 12 and rather spread some talent accross mpre sporting codes.
Tang, please now explain how schoolboy rugby affected our female athletes’ performance.
I mean they should win many medals because they are not affected by the single mindedness of schoolboy rugby, right? Or do we have single mindedness in schoolgirl netball too?
Rather ask why we are able to produce so many junior world champions in athletics, but they fail to take the step up!
Disagree quite strongly actually. Firstly, many schools perform in a variety of sports, not just rugby. PRG, for example, is among the top schools in rugby, soccer, hockey, cricket and water polo, not to mention triathlon, modern pentathlon and swimming. Secondly, the schools “obsessed” with rugby represent a very portion of the schools in SA – millions of kids attend schools with no sports programme at all. Instead of laying the blame at the feet of rugby obsessed kids and parents, I think the bigger problem is a chronic lack of investment at school and after school. The SA Men’s Hockey Team, for example, had to crowdfund in order to fund their pre-Olympics training camp themselves. They also don’t play professionally like in other countries, and hold down other jobs while trying their best to be competitive on the international stage.
I should add for context, GB Olympic success has really only come about since 2000 Sydney Olympics. In Atlanta in 1996 SA won more golds than GB. GB invested massively in their Olympic program (across all sports) with most of the funds coming from the Lottery, and with the London Olympics in 2012 the goal. They were 2nd on the medals table in London and have kept the momentum. With funds, a clear objective and good administration it can be done. Australia also invested heavily for Sydney in 2000 and were dominant at Athens in 2004 too. In London and Rio the Aussie Olympic team were heavily criticised for underperformance and they went back to the drawing board – again, huge success in Paris. It requires huge moola, good planning and administration – SA don’t have any of that. We have the talent – but so does every other country.
@Smallies (Comment #12)
I agree with you there, Wildeklawer is better than Craven Week, that says something. Noord/Suid too. There isn’t enough money to fund other sports properly. Even the swimmers are mostly self funded or sponsored. The best ones go to the US to compete in proper College galas. The athletic talent is in SA, just not nurtured across multiple codes. I honestly reckon the Paul Roos or Grey Bloem would do better at U20 cups than the baby Boks. Better coached, drilled & prepared, with a winning mindset. If SA did a sort of pop idol for waterpolo or rowing and created a side with proper coaches, they would excel. Get the Head of Hungary, Spain or Croatia waterpolo to coach. The Hungarian u13 side would beat the SA u18 side at waterpolo…
@Grasshopper (Comment #7)
@Roger (Comment #6) dont compare SA schoolsport excellence over most sporting codes with post school sport where everything is politically motivated ….there is almost nothing wrong with schoolsport in South Africa and almost everything with post school sport in South Africa …. especially with administration of sport….
but I also agree with @Kaya 85 (Comment #4) school rugby is so successful in SA because it is 100% privatised with minimal govt interference and plenty money. If you could replicate some of that success in other sports like athletics, hockey, waterpolo, swimming, rowing etc – we would be more competitive at the Olympics. Waterpolo is massive at schools now (both girls and boys) and yet when SA representative teams tour Europe the go down 30-0 to club teams!
@Grasshopper (Comment #9)
cycling, rowing, equestrian, sailing, diving, gymnastics, boxing – and their hockey, rugby, cricket and football (sports where traditionally SA are stronger) are not too shabby either. I agree with you (for the first time ever) the perception (from SA) that UK sport is poor is absolute crap.
@Roger (Comment #6)
Yep, focus on diversity of sport. I can tell you first hand, the UK sports programme is insane, especially for swimming, netball & athletics. My daughter plays county netball, 1,000 under12 girls at trials! Tournaments are a different scale, around 100 teams playing in venues with 20 courts. It’s just not done at schools it’s done more at clubs. Phoebe Gill from my daughter’s school is 17 & at the Olympics in the 800m. Millfield School is a sports private, I think they have 5x medals from old students. It’s a wrong perception UK sport is poor…
and I know the UK GDP is ten times the size of SA and yada yada yada – but you have to admire their success. Compare them to Germany, France, Italy and Japan. France are having a wonderful Olympics and have pumped plenty money into their home Olympics – but historically not as good.
@Kaya 85 (Comment #4)
The problem is the schools success is local only, by u20 SA is average at best. Other countries don’t pool talent at an elite 10 schools, it’s in the club scene with many more clubs. Grey Bloem, Paul Roos, Affies, Paarl Gim & Boishaai are like club teams. But agree, more money & focus needed in other sports rather than taking away from another. My view is too much money & focus is on schools in SA & not enough on university & club level for depth…
UK population similar to SA (67 million vs 60 million) and their performance in the Olympics is brilliant – despite a much maligned climate and school sporting culture. They excel across the board – I think they are third on the overall medal table and are never out the top five. But to my mind, Australia are numero uno. 26 million population! They know how to identify and nurture talent – especially in the pool – and rugby union is a distant fourth in their winter footie codes (and they are still competitive). New Zealand also win plenty medals for such a tiny country
@Kaya 85 (Comment #4)
Spot on 👍👍
Would like to congratulate Botswana Athletics program for outstanding Olympics performance and representation.
SA’s Athletics would be twice as good if the political sports bodies emulated and extended our schools’ Track & Field programs instead of its ineptitude, mismanagement and posturing…
Rugby’s success must be studied closely…but Tang’s proposal seems to want to diminish a shining success…
…like jealousy of ruby’s success?
Well said Tang, spot on! Specialising happens too early in SA. My boy aged 9 is playing rugby, football/soccer, swimming, tennis & golf. Tennis is probably his thing as he prefers individual sports but he’s still learning & hixx so body is changing so rugby could become his thing. I attended Glenwood from 92-96 when we were the best school in Durban in athletics & swimming, winning the double theee times in a row. The Pentagular with College, KES, PBHS & DHS was the best event I went to whilst at school, hosted by PBHS parents, what fun! A night out in Hatfield Square after the athletics will never be forgotten. The 3rd term was always just athletics, it should be that still. Re Olympics, I always compare SA to New Zealand, fairer comparison of tax paying working volumes. Most of SA is just trying to survive. The Dutch are a wealthy 1st world nation, can’t compare really. Whatever happens to the Affies 4x100m relay teams & big discus & shotputters, lost. Glenwood have had some amazing sprinters, one at the Olympics now in the 400m, Zekhe Nene I think his name is. Rowing, horse jumping, paddling etc should all be sports we excel in. Diversification is key. Also different sports help rugby players, eg waterpolo
I fail to see the correlation between rugby strenght and others sports’ poor performance. Is there any specific data that supports this?
Good article, I do however think that insread of trying to dilute schools focus on rugby other sports should rather ask themselfs how can we achieve the same standards as schoolboy rugby…I do believe that if other adult sporting bodies actually look at and impliment practices that schoolboy rugby implement they might actually become more successful….specifically hockey ,schoolboy hockey is almost as strong as schoolboy rugby and schools pours massive amounts into hockey development especially astros and coaching…