It felt like just yesterday when a schoolboy rugby pack of 760kg (95kg per player average) was considered big. That weight provided a good combination of size, strength and mobility once upon a time . These days 760kg is on the small side. The listed Outeniqua starting forwards for the Kearsney Easter Rugby Festival (KERF) have a combined mass of 863kg, which is huge! Another KERF school, Paarl Gymnasium are also big but at 815kg their pack is the old definition of massive. Other traditionally big units Selborne (798kg) and EG Jansen (797kg) are of respectable size this year. Grey College is a very modest 776kgs. This means that if both Outeniqua and Grey College start with their first choice packs for their must-watch match on Monday, 01 April 2013, Outeniqua will have a weight advantage of 87kgs or almost 11kg per player up front.
Sizes of 5 mentioned packs at the Kearsney Easter Rugby Festival:
OUTENIQUA | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|
# | NAME | SURNAME | WEIGHT | HEIGHT (cm) | BMI |
1 | Stefan | Grundlingh | 132 | 184 | 38.98 |
2 | Marne | Botha | 91 | 180 | 28.08 |
3 | Wynand | de Necker | 128 | 186 | 36.99 |
4 | Hendri | Storm | 104 | 195 | 27.35 |
5 | Euard | Zandberg | 115 | 200 | 28.75 |
6 | Geor | Malan | 85 | 178 | 26.82 |
7 | Lian | v Schalkwyk | 103 | 192 | 27.94 |
8 | Dian | Koen | 105 | 188 | 29.70 |
TOTAL/AVG | 863 | 187.88 | 30.58 | ||
PAARL GIM | |||||
# | NAME | SURNAME | WEIGHT | HEIGHT (cm) | BMI |
1 | Gavin | vd Berg | 116 | 185 | 33.89 |
2 | Regardt | Louw | 99 | 180 | 30.55 |
3 | DJ | v Niekerk | 92 | 173 | 30.73 |
4 | Johan | Momsen | 96 | 190 | 26.59 |
5 | JD | Schickerling | 107 | 203 | 25.96 |
6 | Luhandre | Luus | 101 | 185 | 29.51 |
7 | Jacques | Vermeulen | 103 | 195 | 27.08 |
8 | Rikus | Botha | 101 | 186 | 29.19 |
TOTAL/AVG | 815 | 187.13 | 29.19 | ||
GREY COLLEGE | |||||
# | NAME | SURNAME | WEIGHT | HEIGHT (cm) | BMI |
1 | Andrew | du Plessis | 98 | 177 | 31.28 |
2 | Martin | Wipplinger | 103 | 183 | 30.75 |
3 | Ruan | Kramer | 117 | 185 | 34.18 |
4 | Dylan | Harlen | 95 | 189 | 26.59 |
5 | Andries | Kriek | 96 | 185 | 28.04 |
6 | Johan | Venter | 89 | 185 | 26.00 |
7 | Marius | Louw | 88 | 181 | 26.86 |
8 | Reinardt | Arndt | 90 | 187 | 25.73 |
TOTAL/AVG | 776 | 184.00 | 28.68 | ||
SELBORNE | |||||
# | NAME | SURNAME | WEIGHT | HEIGHT (cm) | BMI |
1 | Thabani | Mtsi | 97 | 179 | 30.27 |
2 | Dyllon | Domoney | 85 | 174 | 28.07 |
3 | Matthew | Nelson | 129 | 180 | 39.81 |
4 | Robert | Stanford | 88 | 185 | 25.71 |
5 | Dominic | Bank | 124 | 204 | 29.79 |
6 | Damian | Wolvaard | 89 | 191 | 24.39 |
7 | Josh | Webber | 88 | 175 | 28.73 |
8 | Jedwyn | Harty | 98 | 182 | 29.58 |
TOTAL/AVG | 798 | 183.75 | 29.54 | ||
EG JANSEN | |||||
# | NAME | SURNAME | WEIGHT | HEIGHT (cm) | BMI |
1 | Marius | Greyvenstein | 108 | 178 | 34.08 |
2 | Pieter | Jansen | 102 | 180 | 31.48 |
3 | Michael | Kruger | 98 | 186 | 28.32 |
4 | Wihan | Landman | 106 | 196 | 27.59 |
5 | Estiaan | Enslin | 105 | 197 | 27.05 |
6 | Tiaan | deVos | 77 | 175 | 25.14 |
7 | Marco | Holmes | 95 | 185 | 27.75 |
8 | Morne | Swart | 106 | 187 | 30.31 |
TOTAL/AVG | 797 | 185.50 | 28.96 |
KZN schools
WESTVILLE | |||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|
# | NAME | SURNAME | WEIGHT | HEIGHT (cm) | BMI |
1 | Mzamo | Majola | 101 | 182 | 30.49 |
2 | Alex | Voster | 85 | 181 | 25.95 |
3 | Matt | Jackson | 128 | 186 | 37.00 |
4 | Zane | Weir | 98 | 193 | 26.31 |
5 | Jordan | Martin | 100 | 194 | 26.57 |
6 | Andre | de la Rey | 85 | 181 | 25.95 |
7 | Wiehan | Prinsloo | 90 | 183 | 26.87 |
8 | Tyron | Jackson | 92 | 184 | 27.17 |
TOTAL/AVG | 779 | 185.5 | 28.29 | ||
KEARSNEY | |||||
# | NAME | SURNAME | WEIGHT | HEIGHT (cm) | BMI |
1 | Tijde | Visser | 95 | 175 | 31.02 |
2 | Jordan | Meaker | 80 | 170 | 27.68 |
3 | Mthunzi | Moloi | 102 | 183 | 30.46 |
4 | Mitch | du Toit | 88 | 190 | 24.38 |
5 | Bevan | Jackson | 82 | 188 | 23.20 |
6 | Daniel | du Preez | 108 | 196 | 28.11 |
7 | JL | du Preez | 110 | 194 | 29.23 |
8 | Ayron | Schramm | 101 | 191 | 27.69 |
TOTAL/AVG | 766 | 185.875 | 27.72 | ||
GLENWOOD | |||||
# | NAME | SURNAME | WEIGHT | HEIGHT (cm) | BMI |
1 | Koos | Tredoux | 110 | 180 | 33.95 |
2 | Kerron | van Vuuren | 98 | 185 | 28.63 |
3 | Joseph | Potgieter | 121 | 192 | 32.82 |
4 | Seth | vd Heever | 89 | 185 | 26.00 |
5 | Matthew | Harmsworth | 102 | 197 | 26.28 |
6 | Rupert | Kay | 96 | 185 | 28.05 |
7 | Wandi | Mazibuko | 89 | 184 | 26.29 |
8 | Jaco | Coetzee | 95 | 187 | 27.17 |
TOTAL/AVG | 800 | 186.875 | 28.65 |
@Grasshopper: Hoppertjie Monnas definitely Affies forget it old Sopbeen will not allow this. That you can accept as fact. Oupa said if you want to be a windgat your backside is going to get kicked sooner than later. Like you said nobody forced your program on you. Or maybe it is just the other schools looking for an easy win. Do what Affies and these days Waterkloof do refuse players from the Unions and support your own. Invest in them and they will repay you with great performances.
There is a tighthead prop to look out for at Kernsey ,Janu Botha,nr 23 for Grey.
Still in grade 11.
Not the tallest but a strong scrummer.100kg of uncomfortable scrumming power!
Runs good with ball.
Hou hom bietjie dop, lekker hardegat vaskop.
@Tjoppa: so Monnas and Affies don’t buy players? You have to be joking, all schools do just at different stages. Our boys are perfectly adequate its the coach who wants back up, wouldn’t you want that with Glenwood’s schedule. I don’t agree with players coming in late but again they are not being made to go there. These foreign kids are obviously wanting Sharks academy positions after school so are using the school as a stepping stone to get noticed. Unfortunately the concept of loyalty is going out the window in the modern world….
@Green Hopper: Hoppertjie just remember some boys develop earlier than others. The key for these big boys is to practice hard and stay on top. I also think that is why the percentage u/12 & u/13 provincial players do not make it to the u/18 sides. You make a remark that Affies & Monument prefer the big boys. Would you not use them if they were at your school, who is known for purchasing players where your own children is inadequate??? A well trained big pack with average backs will beat a small pack with blistering backs on every game.
@Umtata: there is a lesson in this, for far too long the theory has been, that get a big pack, these boys are working hard to get bigger, and what they don’t realise is that by 25 they are pretty much useless as they will have become over weight and too slow, the body hasn’t fully matured and continues to grow and whilst being big now later it will impact both their ability to play as well as their lives in general, and will have a life long battle keeping weight under control
But what it also shows is that like the Grey Pack, its technique at this age and level combined with a proportional size /weight combination, you can still compete
Any guess as to who will be the fitter pack in the last quarter when it really matters , Grey have the right approach, for years they haven’t been the biggest , Monument and Affies trying to be bigger , but Grey still dominating , lesson here people, and no favours being done to these big lads
You could pick a pack of schoolboys from this group that would be within 5kg’s of what was probably one of the heaviest Springbok packs ever. The pack that started against the All Blacks in JHb last year weighed in at 931kgs. the front row of Beast, Adriaan Strauss and Jannie Dup contributed 351kg. A front row of the two Garsfontein props (both of whom outweigh there Bok counterparts by 8-12kgs) along with the Grey Hooker would weigh in at 363kgs!!
The schoolboy locks would also be heavier than Bekker and Etsebeth by 4kg and only a bit shorter (2.0 and 2.04) because of Bekker at 2.10.
The only area where the Boks would be heavier is in the loose trio – probably the heaviest we have ever picked (Alberts, Flo & Vermeulen) – although if the 120kg alberts was replaced by the 101kg Marcel Coetzee the schoolboys would be heavier.
@Tjoppa: Dankie Tjoppa. Iets waarvan ek net mooi pokkol weet maar wat my oneindig fasineer.
@Woltrui: Die rede hiervoor is die vaskop stoot teen 5 spelers naamlik loskop, haker, slot, flank en agsteman en die loskop slegs 4 spelers. Dus is die natuurlike “wheel” van die skrum om die vasskop. ‘n Langer vaskop beteken dus dat hy eerste “hit” en so die “wheel” neutraliseer. Kan egter wegkom deur vaskop voor die loskop posisie inneem voor “inpunch”. Dus vaskop groot, sterk en langer as die loskop. Loskop kort, ongemaklik om teen te skrum “Besters”, sterk en “mobile”.
@BOG: So true. But the game is changing. Old Doc Craven once remarked first I pick my Tighthead, then Captain and then the rest. The modern thinking is costing especially the Springboks and RSA its major strenghts. Domination in the scrums. Coenie Oosthuizen is an example. This playing tighthead is rubbish. He struggles in the scrum – too short, not involved so much in the loose. A pity as I regarded Coenie as an exciting player for the future. But ??????????????????
@Queenian: Umtata asked the question, but I hear you loud and clear.
730kg is more than what I thought.
@Playa: For interest sake i did hear the Queens pack weighed around the 740 kg mark and Dale 730 kg so small compared to the giants mentioned above.
Barndwag i hear have a pack of 832 kg so thats quite big and Grey PE around the 825 kg mark
@Playa: What i was saying about the Dale Under14/15 was they were not great i do know they won at the Graeme day but just to put things in persective Nico Malan Under 14A lost to Despatch High the other day by 20 points and also lost there other game at the same festival also there Under15 have lost all 3 games they have played so far including a 32-0 loss to Brandwag. So i know it is early days i think we will only see were they stand once they have played Hudson/Selborne/Queens.
What i can tell you is there under16A should be quite good this year watched them 3 times last year 1 were they just lost to Grey PE and saw them slaughter Queens.
My point was more about the bad effects the loss of kids to other schools is. For example at the Graeme day i realized the effect of the loss of the Fortuin boys is to Queens what a difference a 115 kg 2,04 lock would have done for them this year.
Also seen the Dale boy playing for Grey PE makes you want to Cr—-p in your pants and to make it worse he was the only one who got things going in there backline.
@BOG: LOL – I remember the Bester brothers well! One played hooker but one that I remember better was the prop (Piet if I recall correctly). He was a tiny guy relatively but was always the first one to start something on the field.
@jakes: Jakes EG Jansen is die vlagdraer vir Noordvaal by KERF. Alhoewel EG ‘n harde program het en beslis ‘n “underdog” is hoop ek hulle doen baie goed. GO EG JANSEN!!!
Algemeen: Vasskop. Uli Schmidt het gese hy verkies ‘n groot vasskop. Uli natuurlik gespeel saam manne soos groot Flip van der Merwe en Jan Lock. Een speler wat groot moet wees(kry natuurlik uitsonderings op reel).
British Lions and Scotland prop Tom Smith was tiny at 5foot10 and 103kg and he scrummed the Boks in 1997…..another example of technique over size…
@BoishaaiPa: @meadows: @Tjoppa: Apart from BJ Botha, other well known examples of small but strong props, were the (in)famous Bester brothers who played FS and Griquas- head, neck and shoulders all one size/width.
@Umtata: In the 60’s – 80’s where scrums was still a major phase in rugby yes but now the art of scrumming is beginning to fade quickly.
@BoishaaiPa: Agreed – there have been many lighter tightheads with good technique who add so much more around the field. BJ Botha is not the heaviest guy around. I also don’t think that Pat Cilliers was much over 100kg at school (probably only 110-115kg today) but I can’t recall him ever being outscrummed at that level.
@BoishaaiPa: agreed, one of the best tight heads I have ever seen was a College player called Richard Kelly, made SA schools in 1996 I think and scrummed with Pieter Dixon the year before that. He must have been 95kg and 1.75 of solid muscle! His body fat was under 5%, an absolute machine. He scrummed low and powerfully, buckling many props 20kgs heavier with jelly bellies….he ended up being too small for senior rugby though or might have got injured, not sure…
@jakes:
@Umtata</Affies forwards traditionally competitive. Doubt if they are the same size as some of the macro packs mentioned above. 8)
Weight means stuff all if you dont have the skill to go with it…give me a lighter pack with skill and I will take on the 120kg’s plus monsters any day…I have seen a 90kg odd tighthead outscrum a 115kg’s loosehead all over the park the whole day long…more than once..Size and mass isnt everything!..specially at schoolboy level.
@Greenblooded, perfectly put. That is exactly what happened to my mate. Thank goodness he is down to 150kg now and dieting still….nice bloke to have around in a bar if things get a little testy….
@Grasshopper: Before I lost a heap of weight, I also had shin-splints, aches and pains in my ankles, tendonitis in my heels as well as planar fasciitis during rugby season from reffing. My brother put it very nicely – said it was like trying to run a 12 ton truck on a set of 155 tyres! Nice way to put it – all the body weight rests on the feet via the ankle joints which take the most strain when you are overweight.
@Umtata: Yup – Stu Berry is also reffing a game. Not sure which.
Craig Joubert will be reffing the GW vs PGim game
@Gungets Tuft: my best mate is 170kg and 6foot6 and he was a great player at 110kg max. He said when he hit 130kg his body got to heavy for his joints when running and his rugby went down hill. Eventually at 140kg he had to stop rugby as he was too slow and injury prone. 120kg is probably the max weight for an athlete….
Seen on twitter:
“@SchoolRugby: “@Zak020: Hs Alberton has the same front row as last year 1-Joe Buitendagh(145kg)2-Benjamin Lotter(130kg)3-Quinton Terblanche(128kg)””
Nowthats huge. Must be more fat then muscle
@Grasshopper: unless you stand 2.5m tall then 140kg is surely way too heavy. Can any team afford to play all but a single phase of a rugby match with just 14 players who can contribute.
@BOG: Even worse if it was aquired in the pub!!
Just read on twitter Boishaai have a 141kg player in the squad for this weekend at St Johns! Jeez!
Weight gained in the gym is fine, but if it was acquired at the Spur, he will become a passenger after 10 minutes.
@Amalekite:
Good way to see is if he is as tall as the shorter Doop, if so then 1.94m is about right.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Yeah, I think that they got the height and weight of Jordan Martin wrong. Maybe they got him confused with another player ? I would guess him to be about 190cm and 90kg.
j@Umtata: Rg and WP alone is about 230kg and thats without Kelvin!!!
Skould rake up the kg’s to about 890’tish if not more!!
@Woltrui: can you please give us some info on Affies , haven’t heard much aboit them this year.
@Tjoppa: Tjoppa stem 100% persent saam daai inset. Niks meer en niks minder
@Grasshopper: yeah GW was leading 24-0 at HT, 2nd half was all Dale. I think most teams tend to relax when they have ahuge lead. Almost beat PRG but ther equalised in the last minute
@Umtata: Eish!I’m a youngster mate.Finished in 2000…
@Umtata: Yep! Unfortunately we are fixated by size. I have noticed what Dale and Queens lack in size they make up for is speed, guile and skills. Glenwood vs Dale last year was our big pack knocking Dale into the earth, then Glenwood stupidly did not hang onto possession, kick the ball and that played into Dale’s strength ending up in a draw when they were like 22 points ahead at half time. My weight in matric was wrong, I just checked and I was 90kg, still tiny for a forward….
After being told by the Dr, I am a “vetkoek” – did some research, I am in the State’s. It may not directly translate to SA, but would tie into some of the chnages.
There were two things that stood out. Since 1970 Adults in North America are a full 10 kilograms on average, in addition they are a full half an inch taller.
So watching from far away, I see that some of these guys look like “Pit Bulls”. I am thinking that many things have driven this. Competition is fierce (just check out all the Easter competitions, and for bursaries), Humans are getting bigger, their are natural supplements to bolster ones body, gym has progressed with targeted muscle gain, the lure of a professional career….and then I would say there has been steroid use, but as a guess think this is just a small part of the sport, the other factors are probably more dominant.
In my day Gym, was a place you through balls at each other, or the teacher whipped your ass with his whistle.
@Grasshopper: with kids this big SA will play 10 man rugby for sometime to come
@Playa: unfortnately I never went to Dale , I lived in KWT for. A few years, follwed Dale rugby from my days there. Also hve a lot of mates from Dale. Doubt you’d know them though , they all where threr after your time
@Umtata: Creatine and Glutamine are like sweets to them now, natural growth hormone and deca are the culprits. Agreed, in my day I was a flank/lock at 1.90 and 85kg, which was quite big. I would be tiny now…
@Grasshopper: I’m really starting to wonder what these schools give these kids. 10 years ago you would have never heard of packs like this in SBR. Protein shake only goes so far
Will some of the action be live on TV?
@Umtata: What year did you finish at Dale?
Was Jordan Martin not a modest 1.87m tall last year?? Must have grown a lot!
@Tjoppa: Maties have a 138kg prop he’s useful but not as mobile. That’s an ideal paack you have there, wish Dale at a pack like that for the next 3 years
@Umtata: Agreed, BMI is a very simplistic ratio not taking into account muscle mass, fat % etc. Some of these 120kg plus boys must have a bit of a jelly belly. Some very tall boys there too, 204cm Dominic Bank, 203cm JD Schinkerling and 200cm Euard Zandberg, all three are taller than the current Bok locks, except for Bekker of course at 210cm…
Umtata – you are correct, that makes perfect sense.
QC 86 where is your butchery?
I remember my first year at QC, I thought I was quite the thing – and then – ended up playing Grey College U14 F perhaps, was like a try fest – the u14 seemed to be twice as big… I remember walking past the great Ruben Kruger and admiring the chest hair! But really wondered why just a short distance – would make such a change in physique….
@QC86: Hahaaha!Thats an idea.
Nice to have big boys but imagine how slow they must be. At Tuks II prop of 140kg. But worth not much in the modern day rugby. I say ideal weigh for pack as follows :
1) 1,75m – 105kg
2) 1,88m – 100kg
3) 1,85m – 115kg
4) 2,00m – 115kg
5) 2,05m – 105kg
6) 1,85m – 100kg
7) 1,90m – 110kg
8) 1,90m – 110kg
thus total 870kg
@Hustle: The BMI does not take into account people that might have alot of muscle v. fat. So its not always correct
Okay I have added the KZN teams to the article above
@Playa: if the Dale hostel gave Mabovula their meat contract and not EV Krull we could fatten those boys of yours
1 Tredoux Koos 23/02/1996 110 1.80 1 Glenwood 1XV
2 Van Vuuren Kerron 23/05/1995 98 1.85 1 Glenwood 1XV
3 Potgieter Josef 08/10/1994 121 1.92 1 Glenwood 1XV
4 vd Heever Seth 09/03/1995 89 1.85 1 KZN Grant Khomo u16
5 Harmsworth Matthew 07/11/1994 102 1.97 1 Glenwood 1XV
6 Kay Rupert 03/01/1995 96 1.85 2 KZN Academy Week u18
7 Mazibuko Mzwandile 06/03/1995 89 1.84 2 Glenwood 1XV
8 Coetzee Jaco 10/06/1996 95 1.87 1 Glenwood 1XV
9 Gerhard Kyle 15/04/1995 69 1.67 1 Glenwood 1XV
10 Dumas Jaques 21/02/1995 72 1.79 1 Glenwood 1XV
11 Ngcobo Sphamandla 28/07/1995 70 1.56 2 KZN Academy Week u18
12 Nela Akhona 03/04/1995 88 1.79 2 KZN Academy Week u18
13 Mcuma Nkululeko 16/01/1995 78 1.76 2 Glenwood 1XV
14 Vermaak Corne 18/02/1995 87 1.81 2 KZN Craven Week u18
15 Joubert Morné 19/01/1996 76 1.79 1 KZN Grant Khomo u16 & SA u16 Squad
16 Mngadi Percy 19/01/1996 92 1.71 1 KZN Grant Khomo u16 & SA u16 Squad
17 Van Niekerk Kenny 29/01/1996 104 1.83 1 Glenwood 1XV
18 Vidima Ntokozo 13/05/1995 93 1.89 1 KZN Development u18
19 Du Randt Kevin 15/02/1996 90 1.89 1 KZN Grant Khomo u16
20 Jonas Curtis 27/08/1996 67 1.67 1 KZN Grant Khomo u16
21 Fouché Ruben 06/03/1996 82 1.83 1 KZN Grant Khomo u16
22 Stopforth Derwent 29/05/1995 80 1.78 2 Glenwood 1XV
23 Van Tonder Dewaldt 20/05/1995 95 1.76 1 Glenwood 1XV
24 Teichmann Michael 09/05/1995 96 1.98 1 Glenwood 1XV
25 Khanyile Kwazikwenkosi 22/12/1996 70 1.64 1 Glenwood 1XV
Glenwood and Garsies weights and heights here; http://schoolboyrugby.co.za/blog/?p=2975
Outeniqua nr 1 @ 132 kg.Is this possible?? EG Jansen nr 1 is 108 kg. Outeniqua nr 2 is 91 KG, EG Jansen nr 2 @ 102 KG. Outeniqua nr 3 @ 128kg EG Jansen @ 98Kg. Front row Outeniqua is 351 kg against EG jansen 308 kg. Going to be tough up front
Also who is the – Kaptien of Grey College this year?
@Umtata: Indeed! The only “big” Dale pack I have ever seen was in 1995.And they were still smaller than their Selborne and Queens counterparts.
@ Umtata – I dont get to see schools games anymore, but really – are these guys nimble enough to move around the park? I was just at a Dr – and sat in a “bod pod” – and he told me BMI over 31 is a concern, perhaps it was my age (41) or pehpahs I missed something – a few of these guys have a BMI above 31
EG Jansen vs Outeniqua going to be a massive game tomorrow at Kearsney. Two of the biggest pack of forwards this year. . Good luck to both teams. Hope there will be updates from this match. What time are they playing??
also heard that Grey PE Pack is massive – any ideas on those men.
@Hustle: Kearsney had him at 130kg last year so he must have lost a few. This boy is the same size as Eben(stormers) when he was in matric.
Only 2 boys below 100kg in the Kwagga team, the two props are heavier than most S15 props. Huge boys I must say, just hope they can keep up with the pace of the game.
5 Dominic Bank 124 204 29.79 -that is a suprise almost 6 foot seven, and a very lean body mass – I dont know this fellow anyone have the “skinny” on this guy.
@Playa: Dale have been literally punching above their weight for years now.
Grey College is surprisingly short
@Grasshopper: Dale’s pack must be 600kg.
Glenwood are spot on 800kg, small by comparison. Garsies was 810kg. Anything over 850kg is as big as a Super15 pack, crazy! How big is Grey PE as everyone was saying how big they were. 120kg props are the norm these days…
NO WAYS!!!!!!!!!!!
Wow! What else to say!
catch em boys
Waterkloof.. 891kg’s!!
Think Paarl Gim might just reach 950kg.
Beet, Is info on all the teams available? What are the pack weights of all the other schools and in particular the three KZN schools?