Updated. SARU is conducting an under-18 training camp at Hugenote High School in Wellington from 17-21 March 2017. Players from around the country have been invited to attend.
| # | POS. | NAME | SCHOOL | REGION |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Flyhalf | Shaun Baxter | Drostdy | Boland |
| 2 | Flyhalf | Lloyd April | Hermanus | Boland |
| 3 | Flyhalf | David Coetzer | Selborne | Border |
| 4 | No 8 | Kwezi Dlamini | Stirling | Border |
| 5 | No 8 | Jaco Labuschagne | Affies | Bulls |
| 6 | Centre | Marnus Potgieter | Affies | Bulls |
| 7 | Centre | Diego Appollis | Garsfontein | Bulls |
| 8 | Flank | Marcelle Mombers | Menlopark | Bulls |
| 9 | Centre | Waqar Solaan | Grey HS | EP |
| 10 | Flyhalf | Christopher Schreuder | Grey College | Free State |
| 11 | Centre | Janco van Heyningen | Grey College | Free State |
| 12 | Centre | Rikus Pretorius | Grey College | Free State |
| 13 | Fullback | David Kriel | Grey College | Free State |
| 14 | Fullback | Andrew Kota | Welkom Gim | Griffons |
| 15 | Centre | Keith van Aswegen | Welkom Gim | Griffons |
| 16 | Prop | Jan Meades | Witteberg | Griffons |
| 17 | Wing | Sebastian Jobb | Duineveld | Griquas CD |
| 18 | Lock | JJ van De Mescht | Glenwood | KZN Sharks |
| 19 | Flank | Lunga Ncube | Glenwood | KZN Sharks |
| 20 | Scrumhalf | Jaden Hendrickse | Glenwood | KZN Sharks |
| 21 | Flank | Andries Fouche | Rustenburg | Leopards |
| 22 | Flank | Mark Snyman | Helpmekaar | Lions |
| 23 | Prop | Keagan Glade | KES | Lions |
| 24 | No.8 | Travis Gordon | KES | Lions |
| 25 | Wing | Yanga Hlalu | KES | Lions |
| 26 | Centre | Kennedy Mpeku | KES | Lions |
| 27 | Lock | Cristen van Niekerk | Monument | Lions |
| 28 | No.8 | PJ Jacobs | Monument | Lions |
| 29 | Scrumhalf | Tinus Combrinck | Monument | Lions |
| 30 | Hooker | Morne Brandon | Monument | Lions |
| 31 | Fullback | Dandre Prinsloo | Monument | Lions |
| 32 | Prop | Nkosikhona Masuku | Parktown | Lions |
| 33 | Lock | Jordan Mbuyamba | St Benedict’s | Lions |
| 34 | Lock | Sibusiso Madonsela | Piet Retief | Pumas |
| 35 | Prop | Mugnus Muller | Oakdale | SWD |
| 36 | Lock | Dawid Meiring | Outeniqua | SWD |
| 37 | Flyhalf | Ruben Beytell | EG Jansen | Valke |
| 38 | Flyhalf | Quan Eymann | Brackenfell | WP |
| 39 | Prop | Mathinus Strauss | Paarl BH | WP |
| 40 | Prop | Joshua Du Preez | Paarl BH | WP |
| 41 | Hooker | Wilhelm Barnard | Paarl BH | WP |
| 42 | Lock | Adrian Alberts | Paarl BH | WP |
| 43 | Flank | Francke Horn | Paarl BH | WP |
| 44 | Flank | Louwan Horn | Paarl BH | WP |
| 45 | Flank | Evan Roos | Paarl BH | WP |
| 46 | Fullback | Muller du Plessis | Paarl Gim | WP |
| 47 | Wing | Thaakir Abrahams | Paul Roos | WP |
| 48 | Hooker | JJ Kotze | Paul Roos | WP |
| 49 | Scrumhalf | Lucky Dlepu | SACS | WP |
| 50 | Wing | Angelo Davids | Stellenberg | WP |
| WITHDRAWN | ||||
| Prop | Andile Nondwangu | Cambridge | Border | |
| Flank | Pepsi Buthelezi | DHS | KZN Sharks | |
| Scrumhalf | Sanele Nohamba | DHS | KZN Sharks | |
| No.8 | Celimpilo Gumede | DHS | KZN Sharks | |
| Hooker | Dylan Richardson | Kearsney | KZN Sharks | |
| Prop | Nntlabakanye Asenati | St Stithians | Lions | |
| Fullback | Duren Hoffman | Boland Landbou | WP | |
| Centre | Durin Nasson | Boland Landbou | WP |
http://www.netwerk24.com/Sport/Skole/bestuurder-van-sa-skolespan-ken-van-kophou-20170314
@Quagga: Was only kept out of the CW team by another top fullback. Should have n good season. He seems very focused this year.
@Hooit: Prinsloo one of my favorite players this year. A hard working, big, fast fulla with a good anticipation of the game. Will be a pity if he does not get top provincial honours this year.
@Kattes-Strofes: Volledige program op beide Gim en Stellenberg se websites. Games begin so half 4 en 1 stes speel 8 uur. Geniet.
@HE: Bietjie van die debat af, maar wil miskien Vrydagaand vir Stellies teen Paarl Gim gaan kyk. Het jy dalk die tye van die program, asb ?
@Dok F: Neewat, goeie meningsverskille hou die blog aan die gang.
Congrats to 20 yr old Benhard Janse van Rensburg who attended Hoerskool Frikkie Meyer, Thabazimbi. He will be representing the Sharks coming weekend at flyhalf in the Super18 encounter against the Kings.
@Dok F: All well at Tygerberg High School? Nice fixtures lined up against some top tier 3 schools this year, going from strength to strength I see. Decommissioned any more rugby fields or converted them to soccer fields yet?
@ He Moet tog nie vir ou Ploegie kop toe vat nie. Oor al die jare dink hy hy is die Kaapse spreekbuis en kenner. Knippie sout soos die ou mense sê
@RnR: Ek glo ons kan die 5 seuns cover maar bench gaan n probleem wees.
En wat van sy Ma?
@Hooit: Aggenee Hooit! Moet ons nou Monnas se 3des speel op Ellispark?
Baie bly vir Dandre se part, oulike seun, sy pa moet baie trots wees!
Dandre Prinsloo from Monnas is also attending. He is a late inclusion.
@Die Ken: Mmmmm se die die ou wat probeer om n clown te wees.
@Riempies: Ag ou suurknol
@Laevelder: Laat jy my nou met heimwee terugdink. My jare op skool het ons klipharde wedstryde teen, onder meer, Fakkel, Die Burger, HTS Sasol, Vereeniging, Overvaal, Drie Riviere, AH Germiston, ens gehad. Dink nie een van die skole sal weer enige oplewing in ruggas he nie.
@Ploegskaar: I am definitely a bit bias, but watch out for Brackenfell again this year in the tier 2 competition. Some seriously good players.The next couple of years, they may struggle.
@Grasshopper: It seems that they are working hard with Thinus Pienaar driving the program, but I think they are realistic that they still have a long way to go.
@Ploegskaar: Thoughts on Parel Vallei? Heard quite a bit about them at the end of last season…
@HE: Ek is seker julle sien uit, geniet die game, ek moet nog besluit of ek Durbanville/SACS of Bellville/Swartland op daai dag gaan kyk
@Ploegskaar: @boerboel: You’ll find unpleasant and ignorant spectators at all school games. I have experienced them at Boland, HJS, Gim, Stellenberg and even more so up country. I guess we’ll simply have to keep on developing. The insinuation that the traditional school supporters are for some reason more knowledgeable and better behaved is absolute nonsense.
I know that the 2015 loss was hard to swallow…but surely its time to get over it. Boland made up for that loss with a comprehensive victory last year and will have the chance to confirm their tier1 superior status later this year again.
On a positive note…Boland always one of the most anticipated games on the calender. Brilliant rugby whether we win or not.
@Ploegskaar: Yip -you me able to import a couple of good players and surprise in an odd game but the culture of the players and the spectators takes a long time to develop.Stellenberg spectators(pockets of them)
@Die Ken: Haha. Miskien moet jy by die sirkus aansoek doen.
Ou grapgat.
Daar is te min Monnas spelers in hierdie groep, en heeltemal te veel Helpies spelers
@AbsolutMenlo: Yes, from an outsider
@HE: Ah, Stellenberg man, good school, my oldest daughter matriculated there. Duppie is a great person and teacher, Divan one of the better young coaches around. Don’t know about prejudice, I support SBR first and then Landbou and I probably watch as many neutral games at neutral venues each year as I do Landbou games.
I don’t care where games are played, only care about watching a good and fair game, but if 2013 and 2015 floats your boat and you were happy with the performances of Engelbrecht and Salmaans, no worries, there’s no comments column.
Number of teams are very relevant, success is not only defined by results, it’s about putting the numbers out irrespective of results and what team you play for, but that’s where pride and tradition comes in, which went over your head in my previous post.
I am sure non-traditional schools will continue to do well on the field, question remains, will they do well off the field.
@HE: … from an outsider that is not perceived arrogance that is the real thing!!!
Well said!
@Ploegskaar: I agree absolutely with your comments regarding Durbanville, they will be seriously competitive at 1st team level from 2018 onwards. With regard to the other competitive non traditional school/s there is little doubt that personal prejudices (nothing wrong with it) might be clouding your judgment. To say that games against tier 2 games are unpleasant and a waste of a Saturday simply confirms the perceived arrogance of some of the traditional schools. Maybe the powers that be can arrange that these games only take place on the traditional schools homegrounds….at least then there can be no excuses when they lose. The number of teams a school can field is no indication of strenght or competitiveness, if thats the criteria very few of the southern suburb schools deserves the right to play 1st tier and Pretoria Boys High would be ranked in the top ten. History and tradition can only achieved by actually playing schools who are trying to advance their rugby prospects and there is simply no logic in arguing that it a waste of time playing these schools because there is no history and tradition, but in the same breath making it clear that there is no desire to establish such a relationship. Anyway..I guess time will tell what these non traditional schools are actually capable off.
@Riempies: Nee kyk Laevelder laat hom nie identifiseer nie, hy het maar seker sy redes en dis goed so. Ons het maar elkeen ons keuses en redes.
Ja hou daai biertjie koud……ek sal nog moet terug Nelspruit toe ry daardie dag want die volgende dag is weer werk en dies meer. Dalk moet ons die eerste biertjie vroeër die week geniet soos in ene + ene + nog ene …..man kan mos nie op een been staan nie.
Vir die Helpies game moet ek dalk my sussie wat rook saambring……
@Valkie: Die kalmeer pille in n koue bier is nog aan. Miskien gaan julle my moet kalm hou. Bring soomer vir @laevelder saam.
@Valkie: Ja verlede jaar was net so moeilik ..Affies & Boishaai. Dis goed.. hoe anderste.. puik blootstelling en hoogtepunte in die seuns se skoolloopbane..Eish kom ons gee die ander ouens ook kans om te chat ..tussen my en jou het ons die blog ge-hijack nou en 8 van die laaste 10 chats gedoen .. nag ou grote
@Valkie: Ja as dit nie vir die St.Johns features, Tuks en moontlike Virseker uitspelle was nie sou die seisoen maar nukkerig gewees het.. HTS X 3
@Laevelder: Jy praat so oor daardie game teen Helpies by St. Johns 17 April …….ek bewe al klaar. Dit gaan ‘n baie, baie taai game wees vir die Rhino-span. Riempies het onderneem om my kalm te hou….I want to see that!!!
Onthou dat Paul Roos ook gespeel moet word, en sommer eerste. Kyk, ons het verseker ‘n baie moeilike jaar by St. Johns, maar soos gewoonlik is ons seuns ons trots en elke oomblik op die veld tel vir 100% oorgawe.
@Valkie: Geniet die pretloop .. ek het n birthday party in die Spur vanaand
@Laevelder: Kan ook werk ….kom ons val Gerhard aan met die idee!!
Onthou die pretloop vanmiddag….
@Quagga: Ek sien jy het nog nie jou ‘superbru’ pics gemaak nie, onthou die Super Rugby begin môre dv 10H40……
@Quagga: Met alle respek net op grond van wat jy se moet julle op beweeg:
– Speel en wen teen Affies
– Vat houe … almal vat so nou en dan houe
– Belowende juniors
– Sukkel met diepte … almal sukkel met diepte behalwe Affies wat nie Virseker speel nie. Verder is Virseker uitspele net vir A-spanne.
@Valkie: Great plan ja.. of wat van n Mac boompie?
@Quagga:
Dankie vir die korreksie .. well done dan aan Liggies 0/14 dan (nog n ou grote van vroeer).. dink 1988 het hul seker een van hul beste spanne ooit gehad.Ek hoor jou maar ek stem nog steeds saam AbsoluteMenlo..Sterkte vir jou seuns!! (dis Valkie en nie ek wat die opmerking oor handpicking gedoen het nie..en hy het ook gese hy is nie seker nie)Sien uit na ons game teen die dreamteam op St.Johns.. ons wil ons graag meet teen die beste al kan dit swaaaar gaan! Geniet die seisoen!!
@Laevelder: Dit sal wonderlik wees as ons weer ‘derbies’ in ons onmiddelike omgewing kan kry. Nie al ons ouers kan dit bekostig om elke naweek op en af jhb/pta toe te jaag nie, en hulle wil ook hulle kinders sien deelneem.
Dalk moet ons die bal weer aan die rol sit en die vraag vra, hoekom nie? Ek is seker dat Rob nie sommer die geleentheid van die hand sal wys nie. Al die skole in ons omgewing speel teen mekaar behalwe om teen ons te speel. Daar is voordele vir beide skole.
Iewers in volgende week sou bv. ‘n goeie geleentheid gewees het vir so iets……net voor die Tuksreeks begin. Die trofee kan ‘n mangoboom wees….
@Laevelder: Nou maak jy my hart sommer warm klop. Onthou daai dae goed. Hoop Rob gaan van krag tot krag. Net ‘n korreksie. Hulle o14 spannetjie het Helpies in die Beeld semi verslaan en ek dink toe het hulle daar op Lichtenburg harde bene loop kou teen ‘n baie sterk span van Transvalia.
Wat Helpies aanbetref weet ek nie so lekker of ek saamstem met die huidige druk om op te beweeg nie. As mens @Ploegskaar se stuk lees oor die Kaapse skole Tier 1 ens. dan dink mens net weer dat alhoewel dinge verander en skole raak beter en swakker oor tyd, dit tog tyd vat om the bou aan ‘n kultuur. Helpies is ‘n baie ou jong skool. Daar was die spanne oor die dekades wat op Ellispark op ‘n Saterdag oggend goed gevaar het, maar die skool het in die 90’s as’t ware ‘n nuwe lewe van sy eie gekry toe hulle privaat gegaan het. Daai ‘nuwe’ skool is besig om te bou en te groei, maar ek self is versigtig optimisties oor hulle vooruitsigte. Daar is nou baie aandag op die klompie seuns wat die bruin trui moet dra, maar dalk moet hulle begin oefen en die praatwerk sal op die veld gebeur….of nie. Die gerug dat die seuns ge-handpick is, is snert, die skool werf maar net soos enige ander. Ek praat uit ondervinding met 2 seuns in daai senior groep. Nie een van hulle is gewerf nie. Hulle wou gaan en ons het deur die proses gegaan en hulle het ingekom en moes toe spook vir ‘n plekkie in die son. Die een spook nou nog na 3 jaar se probeer. Wat die juniors aanbetref is daar baie talent. Ek sou hulle as baie mededingend beskryf. Hulle is kompeterend maar domineer NIE die grootskole afdeling van die Virseker nie. Ek dink die o14 en o15 spanne het Affies geklop en die o16 het net-net verloor. Die res van die seisoen se resultate was goed maar ook nie altyd so lekker nie….. Die seniors het slae gevat teen Affies en dit gaan dalk weer die geval wees vanjaar. Daar is nie baie diepte nie, weens getalle, en dit gaan nie vanjaar of sommer gou verander nie. Ek dink die druk is onnodig, hulle moet net rugby speel en dit geniet en as hulle goed vaar hou hulle mooi herhinneringe oor van hulle skolerugby dae so enige ander span wat hulle bes probeer op die veld.
@BoishaaiPa: Ja die vroee 80 was hul glory days..net bly daar is altyd hoop en nie soos die song gaan.. well they pass you by.. glory days.. looking into the young girls eyes glory days…
Sal dit nie great wees as ou TVL giants soos Ermelo ,Hugenote Springs en Heidelberg Volkies sulke comebacks kan maak nie.. dit klink onmoontlik maar glo my Rob was 10-12 jaar terug op n slegter plek as baie ander skole.. Hoop bly n wonderlike ding! Sonder drome waarvoor leef mens nog..
@BoishaaiPa: Ek dink jy sal korrek wees. In 2016 het Gim se meisies ook teen Bloemhof van Stellenbosch netbal gespeel dieselfde naweek wat PRG teen die Gim seuns rugby gespeel het.
@Laevelder: Pel van my ou PaulRoosPa is n oud Rob Ferreira skolier…Hy was in die 80’s daar op skool en was blykbaar n kranige krieketer..Die ou sit deesdae in Saudi…SBR blog is blykbaar daar geblok..Seker oor ou AndreT en Spear se manewales.
@AntonT: Daar is n Affies Meisieskool ook..Ek vermoed dat hulle soos met die Grey naweek waar hulle teen Oranje meeding, hulle saam met die Affie seuns sal afkom en met die Gim dogters sal meeding. Dis dieselfde met die Paarl Interskole waar HJS Paarl se susterskool, HMS Paarl ,teen die Gim meisies interskole hou…Ek is nie doodseker van my saak nie, maar ek dink dit is wat die voorstel was.
So gepraat van watch this space.. Daar is n skool in n klein dorpie 20km van Nelspruit.. Rob Ferreira in Witrivier (seker so net oor die duisend leerlinge as dit soveel is).Die skool het die rugby wereld van die Laeveld en Suid-Oos Tvl in die vroee 80’s oorheers ..hul het ook n hele paar SA spelers in die tydperk opgelewer en Suidoos was een van die spanne wat geklop moes word op Cravenweek veral in die tydperk (Ronnie Visagie en Fanus Engelbrecht wat ook SA Skole kaptein was).. ook Vleis Visagie en Danie Rossouw se skool gewees. Wel dinge is weer besig om te gebeur daar..en ja baie dinge gebeur agv n goeie hoof. Hul atletiek groei weer by die jaar..hul seuns het Nellies goed skrik gemaak en net 3 minder goues op verlede Saterdag se interhoer gewen.. met hul 0/14 & 0/19 aflos spanne wat ook haakskeen wys vir die ander.Danksy investering deur die sportliggame(regering en privaat)kry hul dalk n splinternuwe tartan baan van naby die 15 mijoen binnekort.Hul klem is ontwikkeling van talent in die townships.. so hul het ook n goeie koshuis tot hul beskikking. Wat rugby aanbetref gebeur dinge ook daar..hul 0/14 span het ek dink teen Helpies verloor in die finaal laasjaar..riemme en boetie sal seker weet. Jaarliks bied hul n uitstekende Danie Rossouw rugbyweek aan en hul rugby volgens my is besig om vinnig op te tel teen n stewige pas. In my skool jare was die NHS/Rob daarby GROOT gewees en al is hul getalle nog nie Makro nie .. as hul kan saam gesels op die telbord … bring it on!! die Laeveld kort weer n ordentlike skole rugby derby.. 25-30 jaar was n lang tyd om te wag. Al is HTS Middelburg ons huidige maatstaf in Pumaland .. kort die Laeveld weer n local derby.. go Rob!
@Ploegskaar: Hier in Outeniqua land gaan dit ‘n rowwe jaar wees vir ons eerste span. Die o/16 wat op beweeg, het hard probeer maar het dit moeilik gevind verlede jaar en groot pakslae gekry op tye. Met ons onder ouderdom spanne lyk baie goed ( die 0/14 van verlede jaar was onoorwonne en die o/15 in die toptien) . George gaan ‘n mooi maar moeilike plek wees om te besoek, soos gewoonlik.
Die punt wat ek eintlik wil maak is die volgende: Ons as skool kan dit nie meer bekostig om net teen ‘n seuns skool te speel nie. Oakdale verstaan ek, dis ons kompetisie in die streek. Die skool vra ons as ouers niks ekstra vir die bus vervoer deur die seisoen nie. Maar elke Saterdag moet daar Rugby, Hokkie en Netbal gespeel word wat beteken dis by die 70 verskillende wedstryde.
Ek sal graag wil weet hoe verduidelik ‘n skool soos Paarl Gim dit aan sy dogters se ouers dat daar skielik ‘n interskole met Affies gehou word. As dit Affies seuns en dogters is kan ek dalk verstaan. Maar om daai geld uittehaal net vir die seuns sal hierrond baie moeilik verduidelik word.
@AbsolutMenlo:
Stem saam jou! Hul kurwe bly op gaan,al kan daar hier en daar n dip wees. Dis soos om n jo-jo op en af te gooi op n roltrap wat boontoe gaan. Leerling getalle moet in Helpies se geval nooit die maatstaf wees nie (kyk maar hoe jol Boland Landbou en Oakley groter skole stukkend) maar gemiddelde prestasie.. om in twee ouderdoms groepe top 10 in die land te wees is genoeg bewys dat..ons almal kan se watch this space.. so Helpies.. just do it..move to Macro
From what I have heard it sounds like Helpies’ participation in the Large School playoff is going to come under fire after this season, and its no longer just Lions region schools that are up in arms either. Talk is that push will come to shove in the form of a petition signed by the other large schools.
It might be a chance for Helpies to move away from cup rugby and arrange a few interschools 3rd term matches instead. Not so easy if they don’t have the numbers like some of the other big boys schools. The alternative will be to move up to the Virseker macro league which would be a popular decision for all others – maybe not for Helpmekaar tho.
@Ploegskaar: Totally agree with you and I am assuming you talking from a Cape perspective when you mention Tier 1 schools. In KZN there are about 6 schools that could be considered Tier1, only three can put out 20 plus teams on the weekend, Westville, College and Glenwood. Hilton, Kearsney, Michaelhouse, Northwood and DHS are competitive at A team, 2nd and 1st team level but after that it can get ugly. Of those Kearsney has the best depth. Agreed ‘one-hit’ wonders are not that useful to building relationships and traditional fixtures.
@Queenian: Playing rugby. I think just over 200 maybe. Mostly only A and B team. Injuries always concern. No depth at all in certain positions.
@Valkie: I honestly think that they do have the rugby program to play Macro, furthermore that it should have happened 3 years ago. All their age group teams for the last three plus years performed well and the current senior group is special. The current group deserves to play for the highest honours.
@Valkie: I think i have answered this question before so will not harp on it. You are so correct in your assumption. I myself have asked this to our head coach. They do not believe that the school have the capacity that now in number of scholars to be able to compete at macro level. There is just not enough classes available to accommodate more kids and still put academics first. I think current ratio is about 22 kids in a class. Don’t quote me it might be a little higher now.
She yes we all want them to compete at Macro level. But not sustainable.
The for other teams. The u/14 for this year apparently stacked with talented players. We are awaiting results.
The u/15 were ranked in top10. Very competitive side and believe they will grow with experience.
The u/16 did not do as well. But very talented players in the group that will compliment the current senior group very well.
So I do believe that the schools rugby culture is growing year on year. Due to the success of so-called dream team boys more kids now want to come to Helpies.
They were never before a rugby school but believe they are trying to change that. Will they become Macro? I CANNOT see how. They just do not have the space. Unless they get rid of the girls!!
How many boys does Helpies have?
@Riempies: @BrotherBear: @Hooit: @AbsolutMenlo: So this is my question to all of you having read all your comments.
What is going to happen to Helpies rugby after this year? I get the impression that everything went into the selection of this group of boys since Grade 8, with rumors circulating that they were hand picked. Maybe that is true maybe not…..actually it is somewhat irrelevant to me personally.
Let us assume for a minute Helpies would move to ‘macro schools’, is there a sufficient stream of players entering the college to warrant their to inclusion at this level and if so, why are they still hovering in the ‘big school’ competition? You certainly want to win against the ‘big boys’ don’t you?
….and by winning games at ‘rugby weeks’ and then afterwards say we beat the ‘macro schools’ as well so we are the ‘best’ should not be to relevant. It actually just means you have won the ‘big schools’ competition and nothing more, or am I wrong? By winning a ‘macro school’ at a ‘rugby week’ might have some significance but not all significance. Japan beating SA last year most certainly did not make them world cup winners or the best in the world.
Now please, I’m not criticizing Helpies, i’m asking if they really can afford to move up to ‘macro level’ status, as we all ‘demand’, and if so why are they not doing it?
@HE: The 1st Tier is not the domain of a select few, it’s currently occupied by 8 schools that have been able to deliver the minimum 16+ teams, every Saturday, guaranteed, over many decades and consistently delivered for this period on a national stage.
My biggest concern is, as much as the 2nd Tier dream teams, at open and age group levels, (and there have been many of these over the past 20 years) want to play their a-teams and 1st teams against these 8 schools, when they feel they are competitive, where does that leave the balance of 6 – 16 teams on these game days?
As history has proven, 2nd tier schools, despite sporadic success, are simply not able to sustain competitiveness and are not able to guarantee the minimum 16 teams over an extended period of seasons either. To be frank, for all the big fanfare and boasting, they are not even able to deliver minimum 16 teams every Saturday, within the space of a single season. It remains a fact that these sporadic successes at 2nd Tier schools are driven by short lived ambitions, either by parents, old boys or coaches/teachers, but always run out of steam when these main drivers move on. The consistent success of the 8 1st Tier schools, by contrast, is driven by the constants of tradition, history and pride. Those pillars cannot be bought, they are nurtured over decades and form part of the fabric of these schools.
Further more, 1st Tier schools honestly have nothing to gain by playing 2nd tier schools in any event, win and it was expected, lose and it was just one of those days (always away). Apart from that, these fixtures are mostly unpleasant outings, in fact an utter waste of a Saturday, as there are no history and tradition in these fixtures, and you more often than not leave with an unpleasant taste in your mouth, left by the overzealous home team parents, equally hyped (in some cases pre-arranged) hometown refs and AR’s that cannot wait to get involved.
In parting on this subject, and I have said this before, some 2nd Tier schools with higher ambitions are investing in players and rugby programs, instead of investing in making friends off the field. These 2nd tier schools need to have a long hard think about the ethos of SBR and if they are representing that in their actions and conduct on and off the field. Arrogance and gamesmanship will not achieve this. On a positive note, I do believe Durbanville HS has gone a long way towards achieving their goals. Not only have they implemented a strong rugby program and positive recruitment drive, but they have also created a competitive but pleasant environment for away and neutral visitors and have made many friends in the process. I really wish them well for the future.
With regards to selection for provincial teams, I am sure that some of those 2nd Tier players will feature in AW and CW selections, which is a wonderful marketing tool for the 2nd Tier schools involved, but, only if the teams that they represent perform well.
@Riempies: I also understand it that way. So if they broadcast some pool games Helpies will not get any TV time as they do not play pool games. That is why I say this may be incentive for Helpies to move into a league where they will play pool games.
@Hooit: The way I understand it is not that Helpies do not want to play all Verseker/Beeld matches but that other schools do not want to play against them.
@Boetie thank you for the names I forgot about the PUK U/19 player who was man of the match twice.
Player that moved down from CW for player that did not perform still makes me hot under the collar but these type of thing are bound to happen. I was reprimanded last year severely because I had a strong opinion about this.
But as @ Valkie say if you do not agree you should not just accept and keep quite.That now in past so lets move on.
@beet: Ja, it’s sad even if Helpies is the #1 ranked school 2017 they will not be the Virseker Macro A champs.
@BrotherBear: There were more than 1 example.
@beet: Another example from Helpies again. There hooker mentioned above only called up to the trial team vs the Bulls due to injuries on the A and B team hookers. He played himself past 2 other hookers to become the 1st choice hooker for the academy site and even benched for the CW final. He deserved this on merit and performance. So if not for the injuries he would not have played Lions at all. So if his exposure was better his path would have been easier. This year it is the Helpie and Monnas hooker’s against each other for CW 1st choice and it may cone down to who has the better exposure? As Helpies do not ‘play’ Beeld/Virseker before CW they will not get exposure for CW. Helpies may want to actively start playing all Beeld games for better exposure. Maybe this is good enough incentive to move up?
In recent years the likes of Bishops, St Andrew’s, Kearsney and Michaelhouse have finished in the Top 10 but Bishops is probably the only private that has ever ended as the no. 1 ranked team in SA at some stage in the past. I could easily be mistaken tho. Either way Helpies have an outside shot at achieving something extremely rare.
I can see a potential heated debate coming at the end of the season. Looking at their fixture list, it is not inconceivable that Helpies goes through the entire season unbeaten. However when they hit those Virseker Large Schools playoffs in the 3rd term, the way the BHP ranking works, Helpies are going to get discounted points for winning against lower category schools, meaning that a few schools playing in the higher leagues all the way through to the end of the season can afford to lose along the way and still outrank Helpies.
In the past I’ve seen a few top achieving private schools not finish as high up as they expected, because their fixture list wasn’t tough enough. Helpies shouldn’t have that issue for most of their campaign but they will have to make do with 3 pointers and maybe a 4-pointer while powerhouse rivals get to chase down 4.5 and 5 scores in the 3rd term.
Ranks are subjective though. A nice measure but not to be taken too seriously.
@Hooit: a case in point of a “non-performing school” player selected for CW last year was one where his coach was also a CW coach (now been sacked). The player NEVER performed in any of the provincial games, BUT STILL GOT SELECTED.
@Riempies: in the interest of our fellow SBR supporters and the wider rugby audience, I will use this opportunity to introduce the gr11 Helpie boys that at least got selected last year:
Craven week
6. Mark Snyman – SA schools A & green squad
11. David Cary – green squad
Academy week
2. Dameon Venter – pulled up to bench for CW final
7. Liam Van den Berg – Man of the Match in first game of the tournament
9. Ruhan Viviers – originally selected for CW but replaced at last moment
PUK week u/19
10 Tristan Oosthuizen – backline player of the tournament
Few other players should also have been in teams
I don’t underestimate the contribution of big schools to the quality of rugby in SA but I am also wary of how valuable small schools are and how important it is for their interests to be represented by ensuring that their is always an incentive for the small school player to work hard at his rugby.
Ploegie and others are right. Unfortunately in the majority of cases, the top leagues school players through exposure to tougher contests and the associated training programmes are usually better equipped to face the CW challenges etc than a small school/league player.
CW is a milestone. Many players reach the height of their rugby achievement by being selected to play at the tournament. In the longer run, some of those CW players quit rugby soon after school while many others fall by the wayside in their efforts to make it to the top level. Along the way a few big school players are overtaken by a handful of smaller school players.
When I see school names like Port Natal, Milnerton, Tygerberg, Hugenote (Springs), Hugenote (Wellington) attached to Bok players, I realise that small schools are not a source of talent development that any of us should want to see disappear as a senior rugby player breading grounds.
There is also often a complaint by Unions that the big schools play their boys into the ground by pressurising them to continue playing the tough congested fixture list while carrying injuries. These injuries get carried over into junior rugby after school. Short term benefits of playing vigorous fixtures have the potential to harm long term rugby career development. Again this is an exception rather than the norm.
@Riempies: 3 games last year on TV. With SA schools games some Monnas players had 8 games on TV last year. It will be interesting to see how the partnership with Kyknet is going to be. After the St Johns week games last year the main article in the Beeld was Monnas and Paul Roos in n riller. Was hardly any mention of the Helpie victory over Monnas. I am sure Helpies will get more coverage this year which will benefit the players.
@Hooit: I cannot agree with you more. Helpies had 5 players at CW/AW combined that is going to be part of this years group.I think they should have had 7 players at least but due to injury 2 could not make it. Yes so your point taken most on this block can only name 2.
The rest not known as Helpies never had any exposure. a Correct me if I am wrong but think Monnas had 3 or 4 games that was televised on TV?
Then also historicly more involved in Lions management so kids again have an advantage.
The only way you can get more exposure is to play games on the highest level against schools at the top level.
I see that the Verseker throphy going to be televised on TV. Now I just hope that this will not only be makro schools but all of them down to small school level.
@Ploegskaar: I agree with you 100%. It was also proven again at last year’s CW with the Lions team. The top league players perform better at CW than players who do not get top league exposure. Helpies in itself is a good example. Since they started showing good results against Macro schools the school and players started to achieve more.
If there are 50 schools in a region and each send 20 players to trials. How do you fairly select the best 20 out of 1000 kids in 3weeks. Not possible. For a player to be in the Kes, Jeppe, Monnas and Helpies 1st team must count for something when selecting teams. IMO the main purpose of trial games are to identify a player or players that are not in a mainstream rugby school with the potential to play at a higher more competitive level. For your child to succeed in rugby he must preferrably be in a rugby school. Same goes for cricket,swimming etc. I know it is not always possible. The most important thing to make it at High School rugby level is exposure. Exposure through, newspapers, social media, TV games etc. Once again I can use Helpies as an example. How many people on this blog knows more than 2 players in the Helpie team? Although it takes a squad of 25 to become a dreamteam. Exposure is key to make it in SBR. Of course you must have the talent and ability but without exposure it gets difficult. The above is my point of view.
@HE: under the circumstances Stellenberg has quite an impressive fixture list
@Ploegskaar: I don’t think these schools are pissing around in the lower leagues by choice and these games are simply a result of the absurdity of the western cape league system. There is simply no logic in playing a 1st tier school the one Saturday and a 3rd tier school the next. This situation will however continue as long as the 1st tier remains the domain of a select few. Would be interesting to see how many of those players will make the provincial teams at u/18 level.
Valkie…ek stem mens moet jou beswaar maak as jy nie saamstem nie.
@Ploegskaar: Ploegie-agree 100%.Exluding the odd exception the level of rugby at Tier 1 and Tier 2 differs hugely.On a Sat in the Western Cape the games between the tier one schools are all tough and competitive-the boys gets used to that
@Greenman: Sorry back to the first part. An isolated incident is just that. But when there is an accumulation of things, don’t stay unhappy, make it a goal to find some sort of comfort.
Even though CW can no longer claim to be a “best of the best” showcase and is probably the last place Unions now go looking for an u18 player to sign, it still has huge significance to the kids and the general public. So financially there is a lot riding on CW. Schools that benefit from it use as much as possible. As a result it’s vitally important that the selection of CW players is managed in a fair and professional a manner as possible within the obvious budget constraints.
@beet: My point is that, bar the odd exception, tier 1 schools produce better quality players period, be that Pd or non-PD.
@Greenman: Make sure the key rugby schools in your region each has one selection vote. Don’t allow situations where one school has 2 or 3 while othes have none. If you have 8 selectors seats and 6 key schools, then the other 2 places can be rotated amongst all the other non-key schools.
@Ploegskaar: WP is a unique case because talent far exceeds the availability of CW and AW spots.
Does your statement in a way justify PDI kids moving North to Gauteng to play in more competitive fixtures rather than accept that because they cannot get into a WPPL school, most won’t battle hardened enough to face the provincial youth week challenges? Or is it pointing more to a case of Prem B schools need to try harder to find more competitive fixtures?
@beet: There is always leaks where humans are involved. It is currently very evident in our politics. It like getting a star in your home work book. I knew it first. It happens and will always happen.
Just explain what is meant by “My goal would be give your core schools equal say and rotate whatever’s left amongst the others” Don’t want to quote you wrongly.
@Grasshopper: A lot of the school coaches who end up forming the selectors panels etc are watching matches from u14 to 1sts every Saturday. By the time kids are u17 they have a pretty good idea who many but not all of the better players are. So many already have decent background knowledge. Trials help ID form players and under the radar ones. I would not make away with them.
Male teachers especially those who are good coaches are becoming harder and harder to come by in SA. It’s important to find a balance where they can be rewarded for being part of the profession, without this causing school rugby advancements to fall behind. Where to draw the line between teachers and pro external coaches is also a great topic for discussion.
@Greenman: 100%! You can’t spread the love to all. My goal would be give your core schools equal say and rotate whatever’s left amongst the others.
Happy school / unhappy school was a bit of deviation of the topic BB brought up. It’s not necessarily to do with success but rather with how the selection process is run. I’ll give you an example of what leads to unhappy school – this played out a few years back (not involving KZN). At a live SBR broadcast, all the players from school A that made the CW are made known to the commentators who constantly refer to this achievement during the match, meanwhile as per set protocol the headmasters and HoR’s of school B,C,D,E etc in that same region have not even been informed yet of the make up of the final CW team.
@Grasshopper: Combinations is very important. Thereby critical mean hooker and locks, Scrummie, eightman and Flyhalf. These guys must know each other inside and out. Just pull the stats from last year line outs lost and won. Scrummie need to know what the flyhalf is going to do next. No words spoken. Just position. Now that you don’t get from practicing together 3 or 4 times and then you have it.
@Skopgraaf243: Hier is my probleem: ek bly nie stil nie en is glad nie bang om die boom te skud nie. Daarom het ek baie bitter min vriende en groot vyande, maar die een pel wat ek het sal ‘n koeël vir my vat en ek vir hom.
Ek moet sê, ek word gereeld verkeerd bewys omdat daar tyd is om regstellings te doen. Nee man, mens moet praat as dinge nie reg is nie.
@Ploegskaar: Agreed, picking from a school that is playing a Top20 school week in week out means their players are used to the pace and quality of play.
@BrotherBear: In my opinion, and just to add a different perspective, selectors more often than not get it right by selecting the good players from the traditional rugby schools, and I would back a good player from a traditional school any day before a star player from a non-traditional school.
Case in point is the relatively poor performances of the WP Grant Khomo team the past two years, which I want to state categorically, is in no way a reflection on the abilities of the coaches involved. Some ambitious non-traditional rugby schools have invested heavily in players of late, in some cases large numbers of PD players, and gained much bigger representation in the WP Grant Khomo team as a result. Unfortunately pissing around in the lower leagues and scoring 5 tries against Primrose just does not prep the players sufficiently to keep up with the tempo, accuracy and physical demands required at top tier level. So for me, in this instance, the proof was indeed in the pudding.
@Greenman: One can question the need for trials altogether, because it doesn’t show the players form over time. Also school derbies bring the best out of some players. You really need about 3 independent selectors who watch the schools throughout the season and then those three get together to select a team. One can deal with Tier 2 schools, one for Tier 1 and the 3rd one for Country & District. I mean Beet probably watches more games than the selectors do. Another input could be the referees, they see many games and could pinpoint good players. Basically you need a few sources thrown into the hat and then a discussion around it. The discussion needs to be between neutral/independent selectors. It’s not hard really. A legend like Toppy who must be close to retirement, I’m sure would love a job like that. Or Ian Mac/Wynand Claasen, guys with deep knowledge of the game. I find many boys choke at trials and really a few minutes playing with unfamiliar players doesn’t exactly show your skills off…
Valkie…meer n slang nes. Die ongeskrewe wette wat die geskrewe wette feto, wat almal aanvaar!!!…want durf iemand iets sê kry jou skool nie enekele verteenwoordiger nie
@beet: I feel your frustration with the happy schools (take it refer to the top rugby schools) and unhappy schools (not so successful rugby schools). Unfortunately you cant spread the selection so that everybody is happy. It will be representative but a disaster. Not sure that is what you meant by unhappy schools should get together and “I really don’t understand why the unhappy ones don’t get together and as a collective force the changes to produce a something more satisfying to all”. Shouldn’t there be more “CW” teams which would represent. Say KZN A and B for big schools, KZN smaller city school team and the Districts. I cant find the trials teams for last year but the quantity of players invited and then cut to 6 teams in the end must have been a nightmare for the selectors. I am sure some good players fell through the cracks. One bad game and you out. Some players were even played out of position. Detrimental to who? Then players were picked out of position for CW. detrimental to who? End result was a rushed job and no time to gel into a team. I do not believe that the new format achieved anything but frustration to all. I really feel for the selectors then because beside the schools pressure, parents pressure (they always there) and performance pressure it must be horrific. I don’t know the answer but you have to send in the best team and start identifying early so you can start working. Otherwise all smiles and no performance. Blame game afterwards. Should have and shouldn’t have.
Brotherbear…the question that jumps up is why have trials then?
It is astonishing how the players/selectors can be manipulated in trials.
Lions biggest selectors drawback is the two aspects of having mojority players from stronger or strongest side/school, purely making life easy for the coaches in such short period of time before CW as well as numbers representing schools.
Everybody knows that the guys from Helpies and Monnas are armwrestling this representation of schools in numbers when it comes to the Lions.
Helpies has just proven that you could still win with second (by selectors) string players just take last years contest between the two schools.
As I have mentioned in another conversation that you could still achieve grateness bringing that potential out as some would say.
My suggestion is why can the idea of getting selectors from another area not work. If it is trials. Why can’t Valke selectors not come and attend trials.
Like KZN getting guys from Lions etc.
It is maybe better and healthier having an independent selector.
Crazy stuff….ken julle vir Jannie, hy is so sterk en so vinnig maar vang nie bal raak op die dag nie, of Piet wat eers proewe join by groep van laaste sestig. Oh wag ons moet plek maak vir Gawie want hy’t laasjaar slot gekry maar hy moet die jaar flank speel, want Andre het hom uit slot uit gelig
@Skopgraaf243: Once again I completely agree with you.
I have seen this tendency of playing players out of position just to make a team, and it’s unfortunate, crazy and unnecessary. As a player you most certainly want to compete against a player in the same position as you are playing and come out tops. If you don’t ….simply you are not the best.
Some of the best examples are at prop and hooker……if you don’t make the one they move you to the other because of your contribution come scrum time…..
There are often other forces at play to make a team…..but that is a can of worms on it’s own.
@Greenman: Greenie I do support Glenwood, but last year the losses to better teams were big, it’s like the boys won SANIX then that was the season. I mean we battled to beat DHS and were lucky in a few games. Granted losing Marco was huge for us, he was our gainline player our ‘hard-man’. When he wasn’t around JJ had to take that on and he was a marked man. I also feel Rudi played Vorster out of position, he really struggled at loosehead, lacking some bulk. He was always a hooker. This year, the team looks good, maybe lacking some experience in the frontrow with only Schwultz playing 1st team last year. I like our lock combination and the backs look like an awesome unit. Time will tell, but I think we have about 5 certainties for KZN, barring injury.
@BrotherBear: When there are more unhappy schools in a system than those happy schools with how things are being run, I really don’t understand why the unhappy ones don’t get together and as a collective force the changes to produce a something more satisfying to all.
By mentioning that the Lions have the same selection process in place, you have touched on something that has bugged me about KZN for a long time. We never seem to be the leaders in anything (except maybe the stats for most consecutive losses on a Saturday at Craven Week
). We are always a few steps behind those we consider to be our main rivals. IMO the KZN core leadership is largely to blame for this. Wherever/whenever possible our setup needs to become the innovators/market leaders in order to improve our chances of continued success.
@beet: As. You correctly state; “If managed correctly”!!!! Invariably the management of those good structures normally prove to be contentious. Lions have the same system in place. Players perform exceptionally well in first round, but then are selected in teams or combinations where they are severely disadvantaged. Wings and outside centres suffer the most here as the ball can be withheld from them and defensive patterns with unknown players at your side can be very tricky.
Selectors also tend to focus on the “top” 2 or three trial teams after the first round. The amount of disinterest through Body language, is quite disturbing. It is as if teams and players are selected pre-season and that other talented players only get an opportunity when a “golden boy” gets injured. How many times have I seen a coach or selector being pleasantly surprised when they get to know a player better and obtain a balanced picture. Some players are purely Show ponies, out to impress as an individual. Others play for the team and are normally much more resilient in the team setup and when the proverbial shit hits the fan. my request to coaches and selectors – get to really know all the players, you will really be surprised what gems are out there. And, yes, the proof remains in the pudding BUT the eye of the beholder is sometimes much more influential.
A number of players have been deprived of provincial colour’s because of abovementioned reason.
Beet…this new format is exciting and would work great then for KZN. Its up to the talent then for the taking.
Valkie…I still believe there is too many players being played out of position at school or CW level just to make the team.
People often wonder what happened to a team from competitive age group, eg. that suddenly with open sides things change because of more guys competing for same position but 2 years apart.
@Skopgraaf243: Yes agree with you. Potential is always there and everywhere, the secret is to unlock the potential.
@Skopgraaf243: The KZN trials format was changed last year. It was an overdue and positive change. If managed correctly it will serve the province well. The kids from KZN tier 1 schools generally don’t have problems making it into initial and main trials teams. Kids from smaller schools have their work cut out – the often have to be extra good to make the same impression. The new format gives the talented ones from smaller schools a better chance IMO. There is the often referred to case of Springbok Marcell Coetzee of Port Natal who didn’t make the CW team. I think he would have benefited a lot if the new trials format had been in place back in 2009. In a nutshell what happens now is that a player doesn’t have to be the best in his zone to get into one of the stronger zonal main trials games as was the case before 2016. He’s just got to get a good rating at initial trials to qualify for main trials. Main trials no longer consists of zonal teams, which allows selectors to pick more balanced teams. This in turn basically means that even the kid who might have only scored the second highest rating in his position in his first trial, can still be selected to play one of the stronger main trial teams because his rating was high enough to justify this decision.
Greenman…I dont think Glenwood need to stand back for any reason just because of the numbers they represent.
However couple of points that comes to mind.
The larger numbers as representation of a stronger side does make the life of any coach easier going forward perhaps looking at regional and or CW sides.
The one dimentional mentality of good players can only come from strong sides is also a large contributing factor of poor selection and risk of overlooking real talent.
Why has the KZN sides all three last year, u13, u16, u18 disappoint.
Selection problem?
…perhaps again wrong gameplans?
There is a great deal of talent going around KZN, to the detriment of the outstanding individual’s player don’t or seldom get chance eg. Being a good playerA, getting oppertunity playing next to another good playerB making him a brilliant playerA.
A large contributing factor is a lack of time in preparation, I agree with you.
This also impacts on the proper selection and thoroughly checking all sides.
There is alot of potential in KZN.
The problem really is that the schools in KZN need to start, by reflecting first on what thier own player potential is.
If a school side is weak and you have 1 good candidate, let him go to trials with a DHS or GW.
The schools must take responsibility to give each kid that oppertunity to prove/measure himself, against other talent.
@Grasshopper: and as far as our year last year losing heavily against Affies and Monnas. Lets just say wrong game plan and approach. Its a new year and I hope that KZN schools will let the sun shine over their opponents too. The kids do, why not you! “Lets make KZN great again” Sounds familiar!
@Grasshopper: Hi Grasshopper. Agree that the players don’t pick themselves. Then again, cant agree with your argument that some schools should feel agrieved because they don’t have the representation they “deserve”. There is no such thing. There is no sense in “spreading” the selection. That would be worse than quotas. The stronger school will always provide the nucleas of the representative team. Affies in BB land, Grey in FS, PBHS in the Cape etc. I therefor disagree that Glenwood should now stand back and say “sorry we alive” We alive so you others better get up there. The best must be there and I know we have them. Just give them half a chance to become a team. And please get a motivator. Get them to believe that they can! Then support the team!
@Greenman: Always always don’t blame the kids, they don’t pick themselves. But for a team to perform well, picking the right players is an important ingredient. You and I won’t differ in stance as far as preparation is concerned. Cohesion is key to success. I believe our problems in KZN start right at the top. The wrong people run the process and there isn’t enough rotation. That said there are a lot of side-tracking issues that the High School exec members have to deal with. I think if we had a steering committee totally focussed on improving KZN’s performances, it would be a good start. Get the forward thinkers and those with experience at the high level of school rugby competitiveness to manage it and I’m certain we’ll see structural changes and even little tweaks for the better.
As far as the numbers are concerned the actual results make for unpleasant reading. KZN has a 33.3% win record at CW in recent times. There have been a few performances to be really proud of but a lack of consistency means there is generally a major let down game that overshadows all that came before it where the overall feeling was the lads could have and should have played better. Altho one might argue that KZN has never looked like championship material, there have been a few promising teams that have fallen into the underachievers bracket. We never seem to win on the final day Saturday at CW.
@beet: Hi Beet your comment 22.32. Where are the numbers? Anyway, I have spoken about performance last year and hopefully those in power took notice. Don’t blame the players. Start early with your CW or identified and you stand a change to be competitive. We cant expect players to get to know each other in “3 weeks” and play like a band of brothers. What does the other provinces do?
@beet: Also, expectations maybe need to be reduced. KZN only have two or three sides in the Top20, most in the latter half of that. Glenwood were the strongest side in KZN last year but lost heavily to Monnas and Affies. So maybe we need to accept reality, we not that great. Although saying that 2017 should be better than 2016 with some genuinely talented players coming through. I actually think the coaching staff & selectors shouldn’t be from a school, but independent. I also like the idea of each school coach picking a side of players not theirs and then putting them together for the selectors.
As long as the selectirs are from a specific school those players would be favoured in any 50/50 decision.
We even see this at Springbok/Protea level. Where the majority players from province eg.Heyneke Meyer there was 8/9 bulls, Allister Coetzee also had number of province players as preference not so.
With regards to KZN schoolboy rugby.
Its almost like players are being selected on reputation or just pushing school representation. When will they start looking at in-form players & injury free players.
There is enough talent in KZN. They just need to find right combinations.
Time they maybe need to scoute less and also develop some more players.
Player development is like the sardine run, happens every 3rd 4th yr
Also well being of these youngsters.
How often do we see young players heavily strapped especially early in the season.
@Grasshopper: Also overall the KZN CW performances have not been good at all and I talking specifically about performances and not necessarily final results.
@beet: agreed, but let’s read between the lines here, people don’t like the big numbers of Glenwood players making the sides in the past few years including 2nd team players. As you said, many 2nd team players should be higher up. I watched all the games at Monnas in 2016, the Glenwood 2nd team looked far better than the 1st team, about 5 players should have been higher. I think there were 3 Glenwood players lucky to be in the CW side, not good enough. Prinsloo from Westville was robbed. He should have been the starting hooker with Richardson on the side. The thing is Glenwood haven’t had a majority in the selection panel. For me last year Van Rooyen, Van der Mescht & Holtzhausen were definites for them, best in the province in their positions no doubt.
@Grasshopper: I’ve always been of the opinion that in any situation you have your definites and you have your fringe players. A definite is star player without a rival close to his ability in his position. He’s a no brainer choice. Very seldom does one see a definite get overlooked. To me Westville’s standout prop Nqobi Mxoli was easy pick a few years ago, yet he somehow got excluded altogether for both u18 KZN teams. However generally there are no complaints about the core players getting in to the CW side. In any rugby system anywhere in the world the fringe players or players who have major competition for their places are subject to individual opinion. Even within one school on its own, you’ll always come across a 2nd XV parent who’s convinced his boy should be starting in the 1sts ahead of the incumbent and sometimes the evidence on the field of play supports this suggestion. Coaches are human. They have their favourites and they sometimes also have good reasons for omitting better players – like attitude etc. You can test this theory by go right the way to the very top level and ask selection questions like why on earth was Hansen still starting Aaron Smith ahead of TJ Perenara in 2016? And especially after the former’s off the field incident.
So getting back to youth week school selections and fringe players. There are two things to bear in mind. 1: the thing I’ve mentioned above about personal choices, this time made by the selectors and not just one coach and two the pressure on all selectors from their own schools who pay their salaries to favour their own players wherever possible which leads to the bias you questioned me on. There is no doubt it naturally exists there and it is not unique to one province, its all over SA in every region. So how do you overcome this. Well you don’t but when you have a selection panel that fairly represents all the major schools in a region, you at least bring about some sort of parity. And ja no one is expected to be spot on with the right selections each year, just like no one should reasonable expect people to not question choices made – its all part and parcel of the process. But when the selection system at least has the appearance of fairness it’s as good as it gets.
Why Westville and College haven’t kicked up a bigger fuss in the past, I don’t know. If I was working for one of those schools I would have been outspoken on the topic.
@beet: I agree College & Ville might have been hard done by, BUT if they didn’t like the composition of the selection panel why didn’t they complain and take it to the highest decision maker. Those sorts of comments indirectly say those chosen should not have been. It also indicates there was a bias, which is the case in all selections. Who will be on the selection committee this year & who are the head coaches. There were years that many other strong players were not picked due to bias, swings & roundabouts. I for one would like no Glenwood selectors do when Glenwood players get picked there cannot be the usual uproar…
@GreenBlooded: yep, I was just confirming the non DHS & Glenwood players from the 2015 KZN GK team. They maybe withdrawn but it certainly is front of mind & they will be training for it.
@Grasshopper:
Richardson is in matric at Kearsney.
Mbatha and Mjara are definites for the College 1st XV – both in matric this year. College have cut all 1st team summer sport players (i.e. 1st team cricket, 1st team waterpolo etc) from the rugby squad until the summer sport season commitments are over.
@Skopgraaf243: @Skopgraaf243: I think there is merit to what you are saying particularly with regards to Maritzburg College and Westville who I feel haven’t had the equal footing say that their overall rugby contributions to KZN merits. Hilton has generally been nearer the tail of KZN tier-1 for the last few years now and have tended to operate within a comfort zone wrt fixtures but that said their current team has the potential to do well this year and certainly there are a few players who will put up their hands for provincial selection when trials come around in May and who knows if they hit form at the right time one or two could knock on the door for national honours as well.
I see a player like Sam Swanepoel who is making good progress at the Sharks, is probably good enough to challenge for an SA u20 place this season, who did very well for the Sharks u19s last year but who one year prior to that a blind eye turned to his claim for KZN u18 provincial representation as a past tense example/victim of an unbalanced school selection panel
I do respect SARU for a) making the talent identification effort like this u18 camp in March – long term success stories will come via some of the boys selected and b) for doing their level best to keep the camo under wraps for various reasons, one of them being that it’s not the final chapter in their SA Schools selection process and another being that they are acutely aware of what it takes to really make it in rugby and they want these boys to keep pushing themselves to be the best they can be, without falling into a trap of believing they’ve made it.
In most cases kids are on different develop paths so at this age group as well as the junior age-groups after school there is no saying who will overtake who or when in their bids to make it to the top.
So choosing players for the camp cannot be a straightforward process and certainly those that they network with to help determine these choices need to be officials who are motivated by end goals and not the school socks kids wear.
Grasshopper…thx
@Skopgraaf243: there was only a few non DHS or Glenwood players in that side, Maboi (Hilton), Richardson (Kearsney above), Ilunga (Westville), Mbhata & Mjara (College) & Holder (Ferrum). The last three were bench players. Not sure where they are in their respective schools now…
@beet: I heard the group is/was reduced to about 45 players. So just a few short
…for that matter even College who produced alot of players through the 90’s
@Grasshopper…Do you know what happened to the Westville and Hilton boys from grant komo 2015/16. I just get feeling selectors dont look any further than Kearsney DHS or Glenwood for inclusion provincial or other wise.
@Grasshopper: Sorry you might know him as Nkube
@beet: never heard of Sthembiso, what position? An acquisition?
@Grasshopper: There are 7 from KZN but my attention is on other things so the updating of the table will have to wait a bit longer:
D. Richardson (Kearsney)
L. Sthembiso (Glenwood)
J. Van der Mescht (Glenwood)
J. Hendrikse (Glenwood)
P. Buthelezi (DHS)
C. Gumede (DHS)
S. Nohamba (DHS)
It’s obvious there are many excluded, there should be at least 6 from KZN…
@Hooit: fish out of water at KES I believe. Think the KES Monnas U14 game this season will be a good one
@Roger: You figured that one out. I do not think it is the fairytale that was expexted. Very good athlete. Think things will fall in place once trials are played. Bug fish small pond. Big fish big pond situation.
@Valkie: Yes ! You are so right! Parents of talented players ( who is considered talented by numerous other outside people, and not only mom and dad) , and who has, for one reason or the other, not made any of these squads/teams, must do some proper homework, and get a credible agent to further his career. There are unfortunately many agents that is only interested in the commision they get for players, but there is also some quality agents, who will go the extra mile for your youngster. A good agent will do proper investigation of your son’s ability, and if he makes the grade, will try and ensure him a contract with one of the unions.
Having said this ! Yes! Life is not always fair and one can only hope that a real talent is not wasted unnecessary !
@Kattes-Strofes: I agree with you.
I would hate to loose a talented player because the system has let him down. I know that life is not fair but I do believe in fairness and equality for ALL.
@Hooit: how is young Kurt doing?
@BrotherBear: Players do not select themselves. I am very happy for the players that made that list, it should be a great learning experience for them. Very surprized that the brilliant Muzi Manyike of Jeppe Boys is not on that list. Extremely talented player.
@Valkie: Valkie ! You must not be too concerned about players that is not included in the squads. This is obviously a nice to have on one’s cv, and the chosen ones, as well as their parents, can certainly feel proud!
However, history has shown, that very few of these youngsters become professional players. This is of cource due to various reasons, which includes, wrong identification by selectors, poor work ethics, no further development etc.
I have noticed over the years that, having been included in Elite Squads , Craven week , SA Schools, do not secure a player anything, when making the step up to the pro ranks. Yes! It may help you to get your foot in the door, but that is about it.
As I mentioned on another thread, hard work and commitment, together with self discipline, can bring a youngster, who were not in these squads/teams huge rewards. The latest example of this , is JeanLuc Cilliers, the 2015 Boishaai fullback. He was never in any of these squads/ teams. However, he became the top scorer in the 2016 u/19 Currie Cup competition, and was on Wednesday named as the best backline player of the Lions winning u/19 team. This team included a number of SA Schools and Craven week players, which makes his award even more rewarding.
I believe the injury monster is showing himself early again this season.
Just read a news 24 writeup about fetchers. The list of injured players this early in the season is quite worrying.
No.6 Roelof Smit, Keegan Daniel, Steph de Wit and CJ Velleman. will make delayed starts to Super Rugby through injury.
How are your schools looking w.r.t. first choice players availability due to injury. This particular no.6 position also seems to be milking the injury list, which I have to ask if preparation for this position is questionable?
@Valkie: Sorry and for the benefit of others I thought that by publishing what I had, it would lead to other schools providing me with info on their players attending. EG KZN will probably have at least 2 boys at the camp if the 2 who are with the SA 7s squad are excluded.
@BrotherBear: Nope you in or out. Same old same old.
It would be interesting to she who makes it in the long run. Some kids have to work their buds off while other don’t even have to attend high performance training sessions but still chosen above those that do!!
@Skopgraaf243:
Probably because we are always developing players for others to steal…..
@Riempies: sorry, my bad. Thought he would still be on the list. Good to hear he is still in the 7’s mix. Seems like some u16 green squad boys carried forward then. I think Quagga “die Wolf’s” son may want to prove point or 2 w.r.t. lions hooker and higher cudos.
@Valkie: Stadig. The list is not complete. These names is what Beet got from his different sources. Can u maybe get the list of Puma player/s invited. Specific players are invited. Your’e choice if you want to attend or not, but I cant see any schoolboy declining the invite.
Valkie…you guys would probably be included in development weeks
Players from around the country have been invited to attend.
So what does that mean? The players can decide if they want / need to go?
Not a single player from the Pumas, Griekwas, Valke, EP or KZN are included……is this a joke?
@Riempies: They did inform the players at the previous camp that the group will be made smaller.
@Hooit: Mmmm. Wonder why?
@Riempies: He is not on the official communication from SARU to the Lions. I know he is in the 7’s squad. From the players that attended the Saru camps last year 3 Monnas boys not invited this year.
@BrotherBear: David not on the list that I saw. Unless they added him now. Hooit as your son is on the list can you confirm this from the Lions group?
From my observation it seems like this is a reduced squad from last year consisting of u17 and u16 players who attended the Saru training camps in 2016.
Oh boy, Helpmekaar playing Affies in that period. I believe David Cary from Helpies also involved. So 2 from Affies and 2 from Helpies – but word is that without these 2, Helpies is but at “3rd team level”. So we probably in for a severe hiding.
See a hooker (u16 in 2016) from Monnas suddenly on the scene as well as new loosies from Boishaai and scrummy from SACS. How do they select these boys over other incumbents?