In early September, the Headmasters met once again to discuss various issues of concern.The following was discussed:
- Authentication of Identity Numbers (and dates of birth). The meeting decided that:
- An Ombudsman who would be the repository of all results of authentication of rugby players would be a member of the KZNRU Schools Executive.
- Each school represented at this forum would provide the approved authentication agent with their 2013 squads (of 22 players per squad) for the 1st, Under 16A, 15A, 14A rugby teams to meet the agreed deadline of authentication of 14 February 2013.
- Any other players added to the 1st and any “A” rugby teams must also be authenticated
- In addition two more lists should be provided (for dissemination to all the schools represented) by 14 February 2013. A list of names and birth dates of all players in the 1st and 2nd XV. A list of all under 19 boys in the school, their birth dates and the reason for them being that old in matric (or lower).
- Clarification of a bona fide student. The definition of bona fide school sportsmen was reworked and confirmed as:
- Must be a bona fide full-time student i.e. in Grade 12 (or lower) and from Grade 10, registered for at least 7 subjects for Matric
- Must not be a Grade 12 repeat.
- Must be in the Under 19 age-group or lower
- If Under 19, must have been a bona fide pupil of the school since Grade 10 (must have written the final Grade 10 exams). Exceptions to this would be if the family had relocated, thereby making his move to the school legitimate or if the player had come through the KZNRU Talent Identification Programme.
- Exchange Students. Exchange students may represent their host school at any sport and in any team. Should the Exchange Student be in a 1st team, the Director of Sport of his school should do the courtesy of informing his counterpart in the opposition school in the week leading up to the sports fixture.
- The transfer of boys from one school to another. This was being discussed by the State Boys Schools and would be taken to the ISASA schools conference.
- It was felt by the meeting that the over-emphasis on sport and sports results would have a damaging result on all our schools. It was felt by many that we “had lost the plot” and that principals needed to develop trust between each other and have the moral courage to stand up against unethical and questionable practices.
@Riaan…..the previous 5 years results must have stung too. I have nothing against Westville, in fact the majority of my mates are WOB’s and so too are my brother in laws, it’s called banter boet….don’t take it so seriously…
@Grasshopper: You really seem to have something against Westville. Yes their Website’s run by the schoolboys, and well, boys will react over-eagerly to things they are passionate about. As for ” Westville liking to blow smoke up their own arses” – a juvenile comment to say the least. I guess the13 – 9 scoreline against GW, stung worse than we thought. Cheers. Riaan de la Rey.
Ha ha. I can just hear the whiney voice.
@ Oldschool: Yes I have to agree woth you, some of the private school boys didn’t perfrom well, but the Doops, Wright, and moon performed well aswell as Moberly. Anderson was average compared to his season performances, while Mvelase was know where as deadly as he was from his highlights in the video. I think his best try was the one where he ran through virtually the whole Westville team who were defending on their 22 and still put in a grubber and still collected it. Talent from him and laziness from Westville.
I still prefer pedigree over mongrel.Really guys it was not all doom and gloom. We sorted out FS and lost in the dying minutes to EP who were playing at home and were probably the 2nd best team at the tournament.A non-mongrel scored 2 tries for KZN( and it was not a Doop). The Lions match was the big disappointment.There is a close comparison with the CC final where KZN lost most of their lineouts.The Lions were very one dimensional and that played straight into their hands.There were also injuries and management failed to work the ” rules” re game time. I know there is no comments column but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. MHS were 22-10 down against Westville with 7 minutes to go and won 24-22. That comeback shows character.
@oldschool: I would still have loved to see Reegan Smith (escpecially!) and Rhett Pieterse at that level. Reegan with the Doops supporting him, Rhett able to lift his game when in that sort of company (and has the “mongrel” you were talking about). Then Christie also has plenty of mongrel about him, just a pity that the team was so hard hit with injury – individuals sometimes suffer as a result.
@Griffon: ja they did have some really good players , however , if you look at the lads as individual when they represented KZN i thought they were lacking a bit at that level ….i believe that there were too many private school boys in the KZN side which resulted in a team full of local talent but not enough Grunt or Dog as we might call it !!
Come on Glenwood Westville and College please produce some big gnarly forwards whom praat die taal so that KZN schools can compete and win at next years Craven week !!
(no disrespect to the private schools but besides the Dupreez lads , we were found wanting at CW and need some more hard okes like Ardendorf if we are to cause some damage !!)
@Griffon: I think they have a very handy tight-5 returning including the KZN 7s player (lock) + Academy Week prop. Their Craven Week wing will be back too but I suspect that’s the 1 you are aware of.
@ Star: Yes this team played with heart everytime they ran out. Out of my own opinion they had the most mobile pack, Moberly and Moon leading from the front. The backline was pretty quick and Anderson showed lots of moments of brilliance as well as the Mvelase boy. MHS has a lot of rebuilding to do, only 1 out of the 15 man team is coming back next year. So we might see a lot of last years 16A plus a few from this year
@NW_Knight:
oh please do share..
@ Griffon-I especially liked the No8-Haha.What also struck me was that a lot of the team were in the 70s and low 80s and so what they lacked in size they made up for in heart and attitude.A lesson for a lot of the other teams.I cannot believe how many missed tackles there were from the so called big guns.
@Grasshopper: I think there is still a couple of surprise move and appointments to come before next years season.
Just someything iff topic, I was looking through rugby videos on youtube, and I came across the MHS 2012 highlights. The videos 20 $inutes, but it shows how talented the team really was. It includes the player stats, and has the most exciting trys, hard taclkes and bounces. Couldn’t put the link, but if you onto youtube and type: Michaelhouse 2012 rugby highlights, you’ll find it
@Green Hopper:
i juss think that all DHS needs right now is a good strong headmaster. what an event it would be if Kershaw left for his old school!
@NW_Knight: north wood are all for this , i see you have vouched for this previously and even noted you at Northwood have the , maybe you should apply for the position of Rugby Director, if its been advertsied yet , or go to DHS
I see that College will be playing Glenwood in the 150th celebratory match at the Skonk Rugby fest 25 May 2013 – — follow the schools rugby fest link above
This is truly an great honour for Glenwood and I’m sure all Gwd followers will be chuffed with this
KZN dominate the SA U21 hockey side that just qualified for the U21 World Cup. DHS, Westville, House and College. 9/17 in the travelling squad and another 1 in the 4 NT reserves. Good stuff there.
http://www.hssm.co.za/news/hockey/gauteng/randburg/2012/sa-u21-mens-hockey-qualify-junior-world-cup
@Griffon:
Yeah i saw him play vs DHS. His battle with DHS no.8 M.Hamilton was a real good one. Think Hamilton overshadowed him a little bit. But yeah hes quite good.
Just off topic, Who’s watched A.Brummer I think he played 14 A at Glenwood, he was very rated last year, think he was going to come to Westville, but Glenwood noght have put a better offer.
@Gungets Tuft: You are correct , my memories of those day have been locked away very deep due to the shellshock !!!!our scores were very close in my days , but the bone jarring the body took from red black and white jerseys is still felt today !!!
@HORSEFLY NO.1: I suppose for the very pssionate SBR Blog mad old boys whom go up and watch a full day of SBR at there old school they will take into account the whole days worth of results , my opinion is that most arm chair old boys will trade the age group results for the 1st XV win anyday , as the main game carriers a lot more weight than the age group results….i myself look at all the results and do not consider it a succesful day out when KC only win a few but the 1st XV win …it does however numb the pain a bit , expecially a win over College on Gold stones by 30 to 10 on founders and televised ….but still not a great day to witness the huge losses through out the day ….the only exception being the 14 A side whom had a great day out !!!
Festivals 2013; http://www.rugby365.com/article/50279-school-festivals-2013
@Griffon:
Yeah at DHS U14. And U15s are never put on gym programmes . Only from U16 upwards. I know at Glenwood there are already loads of morning gym sessions and afternoon fitness sessions going on.
Last year this time there was already talk of people leaving school eg Warren etc. Is there none of that this year? All a bit too quiet!
U14’s and u15’s I don’t think have started doing proper pre season due to exams, but have been put on gym programmes appropriate for them. I saw some opens boys training so I’m guessing they’ve started. I think most of the boys, be it at any school are gyming hard to get size and some fitness
@Griffon:
Yes it was the same at DHS. An example is the U16A game vs Glenwood where there was a huge crowd watching a very interesting and close game(glenwood won that one 15-12 on dixons). Was a good game that.
Yes our U14 and U15 sides have started while all the boys who will be playing 1st and 2nd side next year are doing more hectic things like huge saturday trainings and gym sessions. The U14s and U15s are doing things like skillwork really. And at westville?
@ Horsy : True about the crowds watching more than first team, I think most of the boys enjoyed and looked forward to watching the u16 A more than the first team game. Just wondering, have any of your teams started pre-season
@oldschool:
Dont agree with the whole thing of the 1st XV result being the only thing that matters! Crowds are really starting to gather up for U16A rugga games whilst there was a HUGE crowd at DHS when the U14s played Glenwood even if all the games were at Glenwood.
1st side USED to be all that matters but now thats changing fast. Ask Westville and their much vaunted U16 age group
Have to laugh. We worry about “poaching” .. hah!. Even the All Blacks are complaining.
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/All-Blacks-gripe-stunning-20121022
@beet: I will mention it to the heirarchy. Spectators can be dof though, you would think they will have worked it out after all these years, but we still get the okes who plonk their picnic chairs right between the stands where the teams run on. It is more of an issue with the 1sts as they come on through Nicholsons Arch, rather than just behind the stands. Perhaps they keep it like it is to practice their stepping as they run out :-)
@star: Out of touch with cricket. My lightie has dropped cricket and gone paddling full time in summer – going to hurt me because he now wants me to drive him down Dusi next year, but these old bones are finding the going tough. I think we will be good to strong. The firsts might not have had a stellar Michaelmas but the signs were there. U15’s have looked good, the U14’s are finding their feet at College and focussing on sport instead of just survival. Hey, we live in hope, but they will always put on a decent show.
@Gungets Tuft: I must say I wish College could sort the running onto Goldstones path thing out. Things go well most times but I’ve also seen the 1st team boys having to dodge spectators while trying to run onto the field enough times as well over the years. On a few occasions I have even had to warn unaware youngsters and even adults to stand aside. It wouldn’t hurt to have a few schoolboy ushers in the area between the changeroom and the bleachers.
@ Gungets- I will have to call on Pius to come to my rescue re the U16s. Just to change the subject how is your cricket looking as we play you this weekend. I am a bit concerned at the moment as our U14 and U15s seem to be battling to get out of 2nd gear, the U16s have disappeared into the open age group and the 1sts have lost 9 matrics including 2 SA HP players who won both the batsman and allrounder of the tournament at the recent Cape schools week.I am not sure how you balance the books after that but I suppose that is the cycle of life.Adapt or die. There is always the possibility of my rain dance coming off though especially as there is quite a good rugby game on at the Park.
@oldschool: Just seen the “almost walking onto Goldstones” part. Never. Never ever. The rugby guys have always sprinted onto the field – it was almost a code of honour. There were all sorts of eccentricities about College that amused us at the time but make us proud now, like the threat of a 1 match suspension if your socks fell down during a match.
@oldschool: And just before I go off and do some actual work, I completely disagree with the focus on 1sts only. Hell, the U15F have a near cult following.
Strangely satisfying that College get held to a different standard. I can live with that.
@oldschool: Perhaps becasue the KC match was a Classic Clash – dunno. I must say that I did not see anything too radical, certainly more subdued than any other Classic Clash I have seen. Remember that it was also Reunion Day, so the atmosphere is always going to multiplied by 10.
Certainly hope I have not done anything to sully College reputation here. Said it before, say it again, if I am then I would rather drop out here. I think I try for balance, and get hot under the collar only when someone attacks College unfairly.
Oh yes, and also carry the can when College deliberately gets the results wrong …
@oldschool: Sad if you have College mates that feel that only the first team result is important. That is the most Un-College thing I have heard.
@Gungets Tuft: to be honest the only times i witness College old boys not acting in the traditional college manner is on this blog , as i am yet to meet a college old boy that makes a story about a college loss ….i just found it very uncollege the manner in which the boys entered the field against KC , understanding that it was a big game , maybe Gee’d the lads up …but my own experience was always a subdued scary bunch of lads almost walking on to goldstones then delivering bone crunches for 70 minutes with the same expression ….scary place to be if you are from a tiny village school !!! :shock:
@All Black: Sounds like a threat all black ??? geez , “carefull of your comments of other schools” ????this whole blog is rife with comments about other schools from opposing schools ….dont be so sensitive !!!!and we buy our 1st team , seriously is that what you believe ??? firstly , this years 1st team are mostly grade 11 as you know , so surely bought or not they should have been at a serious disadvantage due to age and secondly as mentioned before many times by many people on all the blogs , all the schools first teams are littered with scholarship kids , college no exception !!! You should probably read things more carefully ….i clearly state that College is my next best thing to KC ….and my initial comments were based on 1st team results (as surely thats the one that counts ) not taking anything away from the 14 15 and 16 age groups , but all are irrelevent if the 1st team loses ???any way thats how all my college mates feel , may be wrong though???
@oldschool: You buy your 1st team so having 600 boys means nothing. Careful of your comments about other schools. You seem to want to stir things up? Rather do that face to face than on a blog.
@Gungets Tuft: “How many boys at KC come from Hillcrest – 20%??”
A whole heap more than that I would say. At a guess I’d say about 70% of the Highbury class end up there as well as quite a few from Hillcrest Primary, Thomas More and HCA.
@oldschool: And then having said all that, I can imagine Skonk frowning a little at the big deal that is being made of schoolboy rugby, and a little at the on field geesing up. He moved with the times, but also preferred the “quiet smile” kind of approach. So there might be some truth in what you say. I will keep an eye on it a little more and see whether it is more OTT than it used to be.
@oldschool: If raising the tempo of the conversation was your sole aim, why not just the second posting rather that the “domination” posting???
I am sure a 1200 student private school would compete right down the line, but that was not the point of the discussion. You said that with your total domination of College you would think that would be the govt school focus – the answer is no, because there is nothing like a day of 28 rugby teams, 16 hockey teams (and all the other sports) competing. It is less fun when we have to play Greytown, Voortrekker and the Westville U16F team (hahhha!!) to make up the required number of teams.
Make no mistake, taking on KC, House and HC is right up there for our top teams, no less focus or passion, it just has slightly less overall gees.
Small “village school” .. hahhhaaa, yeah right. How many boys at KC come from Hillcrest – 20%??
And nothing has changed with the build up to matches – I think you are just watching more closely. Hopefully a little overt passion on the field doesn’t mean that the modesty has gone. I hope you don’t hear College boys making excuses for losing (or winning for that matter), or acting with bad grace, but never underestimate the passion with which they approach school life in all it’s forms. Other great schools are no different and I rate the Top 7(House, HC, KC, Westville, Glenwood, DHS and … yes .. Northwood, jury out on St Charles) up there.
@Gungets Tuft: I thought that statement of mine waould raise the tempo of this thread …..good , was getting a bit bored !!! anyway , lets picture for a minute that KC and MHS joined forces to form a 1200 boy private school ,to be as big as College and the Hood , (the ville is still bigger) and we then competed with you masssive schools with an equal number of boys , mmmm , i would say would be very close in all sports right down to the E and f sides !!! but that wont happen , so we as a tiny little village school dont do to bad considering …..I am mates with many College old boys , i have played rugby against and with many college old boys and i understand the old college mentality and modest way they aproach sport and winning and losing , which im afraid seems to be changing , i witnessed a huge amount of showboating pre kick off by your first team , all the chest slapping and facial expressions were not how the teams of old aproached the game , college used to drive the fear into there opposition by pitching up expresionless , showing little emotion win or lose (not often) hence the term College feaver , as it was frightening playing against these hardened machines !! ….now the boys seem to act like the Hurricanes !!!…i still love college and if i couldnt afford KC , college would be my next choice , as is with many KC old boys , however , maybe times are changing , but the boys shouldnt lose that great college ethos of modesty and toughness !!!
@Gungets Tuft:
No
@HORSEFLY NO.1: I will consider myself and the school crapped on. What could we possibly do to atone for this.
But then I suppose it does rather stick out like a sore thumb when one of your victories is not reported.
It appears there must be a much deeper reason for your fixation with the U14 side, much more than just the DHS New Dawn … yes?
@gungets
Yah they do make these mistakes hey like that U14A polo result where it says College beat DHS by 18-1 when it was infact the other way around.
Another is the U14E rugby result also vs DHS which DHS won 22-5. But then again that was along time ago and the polo side showed their quality by beating College 18-2 the 3rd time they played.
@star: Just dig out the Westville results for the day and all will be revealed. College have made mistakes in results before, you never know, but in the absence of anything to the contrary …..
@star: Ohhh, I see. Sheesh, I did not even look at that. No, cannae comment on that, who knows what happened. Not going to try and be logical about whether that result can be used to draw conclusions about what happened at Westville later. I can tell you that on the Derby day, not offsets. On the KC day clearly they could not field enough teams, College asked for a Fixture, Westville were playing opposition that could not field an F team, so College took the fixture. Circumstances are completely different, but read it any way you like. If I was to guess, I would say that the College boarders that would normally have played U16E all took optional weekends – as they do when they do not have compulsary sport, and the team was a “grab who is left”, possibly a hockey player or 3, a soccer player here and there. College do that with the “Nicotine Ninths” ..
@ Griffon- There is the possibility I suppose that Guy could coach the U16s.When you talk about lack of communication are you referring to the current U15s. Last yeat they were a very divided bunch and had to go on a few team building exercises.There is defintely progression in the right direction and hopefully it will continue into the U16 set-up.
@ Gungets- You gave the Kearsney results and included the other fixtures to show that Kearsney was not “able to provide dominant opposition” One of those fixtures was College U16 E losing to the Westville U16F 12 22.This was a College home game and so they surely would have requested the offset.(or did Westville force themselves on you)This is to put into perspective your statement that ” no way would College request an offset against Westville.” I am also saying that logic would indicate that the U16E result 41-5 is wrong.How can a lower team beat a team away that the higher team was thrashed by at home. Maybe College had a bit of finger trouble in recording the results.
@ Horsy- I will speak to the powers that be to tone things down. Bit difficult with current performances-Just pulling
@All, Westville are great at blowing wind up their own asses, all the headings are full of adjectives. Westville smash blah, Westville overwhelm blah, Westville trounce blah etc…..obviously kids writing the the stories with no editing. You should see the stuff on twitter. However, there is one worse culprit for this and that is KES, jeez they love to big themselves up. Another shocking decision was the disallowed try at Westville. Glenwood should have won that one even without Marne….
@Gungets-
@gungets
Those titles on WBHS site are seriously funny!!!
Just imagine if everybody did that!!!
@Gungets Tuft:
i see the score was 22-14. Yeah i guess it was kinda close. I dont really agree with your saying that the teams are pretty close though. This year they werent but maybe next year there will be a shift of power with changes of coaches and some boys gyming for a physical advantage.
Yes i guess so. Always hard to just simply gel with people you dont really know.i guess our U14s were helped by that 6 of the starting players were DPHS boys.but then again, everyone else was from different schools.
@star:
Yeah sorry
But this year performance wise i think my boys were just a step ahead. Dont let that 12-5 score fool you mate. It may well have been 21-0 or more.
Only loss was to Glenwood and ask anyone with. A pair of eyes and was there what happened. SHOCKING!!
Cant wait for next year though! Hear both DHS and Westville have gotten hold of some really good talent for U14 next year. Should be a good battle among the juniors.
Also, i see our U14Bs beat Westville and College this year with. A narrow loss to Kearsney and sound 17-0 loss to Glenwood. Good for depth! Guess it helps to try and make sure that the boys you get on aquatic and cricket scholarships are pretty handy at rugby
@star: Huh?? .. what??
” But it makes no sense that MC U16E would beat Westville 41-5 away( the only game they lost all year) and then request(must have been cold in Hell) to play Westville’s U16F who they lose to at home.”
.. Not sure what you are asking. I know this – No way would College request an offset against Westville. If Westville requested it then College would have printed that. I guess I will go with the only version of the truth that we have. No logic to dictate …
Why did Westville not put the results on their website – they could have put it under the heading “U16’S REIGN SUPREME AGAINST COLLEGE”
@ Star : I wonder who will coach the u14 side next year as the current coach has coached the side 4 the last 3 or 4 years. Guessing u15 will also have a change in coaching. Hope the u16’s next year will have a good coach as normal, but I think this years team weakness was communication, although they’ve been together for 2 seasons, I think there was still that small thing lacking.
@ Griffon- I agree 100% about all the potential but the translation still needs to come through from a few individuals.
@ Gungets- I have also looked and cannot find the results. But it makes no sense that MC U16E would beat Westville 41-5 away( the only game they lost all year) and then request(must have been cold in Hell) to play Westville’s U16F who they lose to at home.The only explaination is that the College official result is wrong( Unthinkable I know but logic dictates). I was also impressed with all the Westville headlines. HAHA
Horsy- College U14A did not beat Westville easily. In fact if memory serves me correct( and I watched the match)Westville were doing all the pressing in the last quarter as they were a few points behind. A penalty was awarded for a “double” movement on the tryline.College cleared their line and then another penalty for crossing was awarded.Westville took a few risks in their 22 which College capitalised on.Next year will be fascinating as all the teams I believe are very close and it is how they develop and mature that will determine the champion team. The Westville coach is I believe going up with team as his son will be coming to the school and I presume does not want a conflict of interest.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Yeah – I wonder if it is not pretty standard for College in Grade 8. There is no one solid feeder school to College, they get a couple of boys from a number of schools and then need to try and get them firing. Even U15 is still struggling a bit. Add to that the fact that the majority of those boys are boarders, and nobody is going to accuse College of being a soft BE, or it being easy for boys to find their feet. Whatever, you are correct – it was often like watching Jekyl and Hyde.
@Griffon, very clever understating things. I think deep down you know the Westville side are great on paper but want to avoid the Glenwood 2012 scenario….good on you for not putting too much pressure on the boys….Glenwood will be dark horses which is where I think we are at our best…being the underdog…
@ Grasshopper :Yes Glenwoods side should look good next year, I’m still uncertain of Westville being front runners with Kearsney, as a Westville supporter and rugby lover, I feel the Westville has a lot of potential but don’t know how much that will translate into results. The players I think this year let the foot off the pedal except a few who played hard week in and weekout. @ Gungets : I think we should let the result be, win or lose. I can’t find the results anyway, either way we should be looking forward to next years rugby season
@Gungets Tuft:
I think your U14a was quite inconsistent hence the result.
They also got beaten by a similar score(20 points or so ) to MHS who were beaten 26-0 by DHS who beat College narrowly 12-10. They then beat Westville nicely whom we also beat but by only 12-5.
Inconsistency was the reason they got beaten like that by what is a strong Kearsney side.
@Gungets and Star, yep the Westville Under16 group were pretty strong and will probably make up most of the 1st to 5th’s sides in 2013. Glenwood had a powerful Under16 group in 2011 who will be open next year, so one would hope they all have learnt alot playing opens this year and will provide a backbone to the Glenwood open teams for 2013. 2013 is going to be interesting with lots of new names popping up…..I still have Westville and Kearsney as the favourites to top KZN, with College and Glenwood in hot pursuit…
Well done to Callan Pearce for being appointed Head Boy for 2013! http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/head-prefect-2013
@Griffon: If Westville want to play a weaker team against College then they are sticking their chins out and asking to be clubbed. College did not ask for it, so Westville can’t claim any credit for it.
Send a link to the Westville results that day – it will immediately be obvious who played against whom.
No arguing the strength of the Westville U16 age group – they did very well. Interesting to see how they go in the open age group.
@ Gungets : I watched most of the games that day, and if the u16 E’s did infact not play their College counter parts then they played against Grosvner Boys. I think the u16 E’s played Grosvner Boys 16 A at least 3 or 4 times due to them not getting fixtures or being staggered. Either way Westville had the strongest u16 age group as a whole
@star: And I really should cut back on my lunch time Guiness because I just misread your comment. Anyway – the result that I have is U16E as above. If Westville trotted out an U16F against our E team, where did theur E team play that day, because it will be a cold day in hell before College ask for an offset against ANY school. If we do not do it against KES and Affies then .. sorry .. but Westville are not going to get the request.
@star: I don’t think I said the U16 had lost – they drew at Westville. I knew that.
One of us is wrong about the U16 results. My official results are as follows for U16 (we have not had an U16F team all year).
U16A Westville 13 13
U16B Westville 15 17
U16C Westville 5 36
U16D Westville 7 18
U16E Westville 41 5
I have tried to find the rugby results vs College on your website but can only see where Westville have a “SUPERB PERFORMANCE BY 1ST RUGBY XV AGAINST GLENWOOD, or “WESTVILLE 1ST XV OUTCLASS DHS BY 43 TO 7” or “WESTVILLE HAMMER GLENWOOD AT BASKETBALL”. Perhaps you can post a link to the College Rugby results and I can see how Westville reported the results.
@GreenBlooded: The U14A result was an abnormal one as well, the team was nowhere that day. This was the same team that lost narrowly to DHS away (to a last minute try by DHS), yet DHS walloped KC 20-0.
Been a while since College were so dominated, losing 5 rugby matches out of 18, with only 2 of those losses without offsets.
@ Gungets- Just a small bone to pick with you.When I stated that the Westville U16 as a group were undefeated locally and that it was some sort of record you pointed out that the U16E had lost to College and that perhaps I did not look low enough. I note that the Westville U16F beat the College U16E( a stagger in the opposite direction) as proof that I can go low and that I stand by my original statement. Also do College not have an U16F team as they did not play on the official match day.
@Gungets Tuft: Good wins for the U16A and U15A there – Eish but that U16A team were a special bunch – unbeaten since the earlier part of their U14 season by Glenwood and Westville. Almost seems a pity to split them up. Which of them do you reckon will be 1st team next year? Goodson and Koekemoer for starters I would say?? All Black??
@oldschool: Just to clarify. I haven’t taken out the fixtures that we had to play against other schools due to KC not being able to provide dominant opposition.
1st Kearsney 10 – 30
2nd Kearsney 8 – 8
3rd Kearsney 40 – 24
4th Kearsney 59 – 21
5th Kearsney 41 – 7
6th St Patricks 1st 41 – 41
7th Kearsney 6th 34 – 5
8th Kearsney 7th 31 – 26
U16A Kearsney 37 – 0
U16B Kearsney 49 – 15
U16C St Charles 16B 12 – 8
U16D Kearsney 16C 31 – 33
U16E Westville 16F 12 – 22
U15A Kearsney 43 – 12
U15B Kearsney 41 – 7
U15C St Charles 16C 12 – 17
U15D Kearsney 15C 29 – 5
U15E St Charles 15C 34 – 5
U15F Kearsney 15D 7 – 22
U14A Kearsney 10 – 33
U14B Kearsney 33 – 0
U14C Kearsney 65 – 0
U14D Midlands Dev 27 – 27
U14E St Charles 14C 50 – 5
U14F Kearsney 14D 0 – 49
Hockey
1st College – 1 1st Kearsney -2
2nd College -9 2nd Kearsney -0
3rd College -2 1st St Patricks-4
4th College -1 3rd Hilton -1
5th College -1 3rd Kearsney -2
16A College -6 16A Kearsney -0
16B College -7 16B Kearsney -1
16C College -6 2nd St Patricks-0
16D College -2 16C Kearsney-1
16E College -2 16D Hilton -1
16F College – 3 16D Kearsney -0
16G College -6 16E Hilton -0
14A College -2 14A Kearsney -0
14B College-12 14B Kearsney -0
14D College – 5 14C Kearsney -0
@oldschool: Hahhhhaaaa .. “absolute domination” .. house winning at home by a penalty in the last 2 minutes. What would define “close”. Hilton got clubbed like a baby seal. So, Kearnsney wins = private domination. I hope Kearsney will then accept the challenge of playing at least the top 4 teams in each age group, team for team with no stagger. Our B hockey teams always have to look for other fixtures.
@Greenblooded, I agree, the biggest fixtures are those where 28 teams play and the results are almost 50/50. With Michaelhouse, Hilton and Kearsney normally 80 to 90% of the games are won and only really A team games are close. The privates only have enough depth for 1 or 2 competitive sides.
@oldschool: They are the only schools who come close to matching each other down the line and without staggers. 28 or so matches in a day – that’s something special.
@GreenBlooded: Funny that !!As i was under the impression that KC and MHS would be the big draw cards for the Ville , Gwood and College next year !!!as there seem to be some Govt school vs prvt school scores to be settled to be settled due to the absolute domination of the privates over there govt opposition from this year coupled with the fact that both schools have strong squads for 2013…….my bet , the boys will all be out to catch MHS and KC …will make for some great entertainment …..love the revenge matches !!!!
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Indeed it is!! Trevor and Trevor need to sort out their quarrels and schedule this match. The 4 biggest KZN school rugby days are Glenwood vs Westville, Glenwood vs College (x2) and Westville vs College. Loosing one of these is to deprive about 900 boys of a game. I’m sure if you asked all the Westville and Glenwood boys if they’d like a crack at each other next year the answer would be overwhelming. Really sad if this day doesn’t happen.
@Griffon:
Yah it should be. The. GW vs WBHS fixture wont happen so very sad to see this. Many good games to be missed. Truly sad indeed.
@ Horsy : Next year rugby season should be an exciting, the u14 boys being new to high school have a point to prove. While the u16’s all competing for Grant Khomo. Feel sorry for the Westville/Glenwood boys if the fixture doesn’t happen.
@Griffon:
Yah DHS also usually get those Zululand boys . Ithink the reason that DHS U14 were first this year was the coaching. You have to make use of what you have and they certainly did with their loose trio which is all provincial rugga players. I dont think kearsney did that.
I dont really know how DHS is looking but from what ive got its going to be a good side with some BIG forwards with the biggest probably being Sean Barnes as he was the biggest player in the kzn U13 side. Hoping for the best though!
If mext years 14 A’s are coached well, like most of the other 14 A’s they can compete for top honours, plus Westville normally manage to get boys from Zululand district who just missed out on KZN. It was shame that the KZN team this year didn’t play a friendly game against our 14 B side
How are DHS u14’s for next year looking
@Griffon:
Yah WBHS was helped by that 6 WSPS boys made KZN and from what i know only one isnt going to WBHS and that is the Viljoen twin. Another i know of is J.Phipson from DPHS.
So positions are:
LH. Prop
TH prop
Flank
Wing
Centre
Scrumhalf.
This years Westville U14A had about 4 KZN players.
Westville also wanted DPHS and KZN flanker S.Kuhlane but luckily DHS managed to get him.
@ Horsefly : I don’t really follow the goings of boys into high school, I follow once they’ve got there, so I don’t know many. 6 sounds like a good amount, this years u16 A’s had more or less the same number or KZN u13 reps. But we’ll have to see next year. Iv heard the u14 A coach this year G.Coombe might move up with current u14’s
@Grasshopper:
Seriously? Too many stars dont make at team! I thought you would have realized that by now because of your 1st side.
Also,having KZN players makes the world of difference at U14 level but starts fading later on. An example is Westville U14A of 2009 , they had beaten DHS by about 40 points that year but the next year DHS won the very same fixture 5-3 at Westville.
@griffon
About 6 on my count. Could be one or two more. How many do you have that you know of?
@ Horsy : Which or how many KZN players are heading to Westville ?
Why could it be disastrous? You have said on numerous occasions that having KZN players means nothing, so Glenwood and Westville should not have any advantage by having these players. Plenty happens between Under14 and open so this does not guarantee success, only hard work, good coaching and natural ability/growth can deliver success…
@Grasshopper:
That list is for next years U14 side. Glenwood will have the most and i think Westville the second most.
This could be disastrous. And yes, Kearsney had the most for this year and were 2nd in KZN(kzn u13 talent isnt everything)
@Horsie, I thought Kearsney had the most KZN reps in their Under14 side, well that is what you said previously…
@NW_Knight:
Yah it also could be that. DHS far more modest with 2 that i know of (not sure where J.truter is going).
But an example of what you are saying is this years u14 age group where Glenwood had the most kzn players but were beaten vy Westville and had should-have-lost victories vs DHS and Kearsney.
Also, do you know where J.Smit andd T.Shandu (both dphs) are going next year?
@Horsey: Could be a team of disaSTARS! The problem with KZN U13 selections is that often they aren’t the best players, but the ones most favored by the selectors. Your father and your primary school often count for more than the talent on the field. Proof is the dismal record of the U13 teams at CW in the past few years.
More emphasis is put on size than on skill – which is exactly why most of these boys fail to make U16 GK (everyone else has caught up size wise and now they have no skill).
The fact that GW has so many KZN players is more of a psychological advantage than a physical one. Some of the most talented players were left at home during CW. I’m sure that other schools have just as much talent at their disposal.
@NW_Knight:
Well then the family mustve changed itd mind!
What a team of stars glenwood is assembling for u14 though!
KZN players:
Prop
Lock
Flyhalf
Another flyhalf
Wing
Another wing
Inside centre
Outside centre/flyhalf
All these from kzn u13A squad!
@star:
It is highly unlikely – my brothers all went to Port Shepstone High School. Don’t thing MHS even knows where that is
I also get annoyed when the obviously wealthy kids get the bursaries, but I do know of one family where the parents have accepted the bursary but then sponsor a less fortunate kid at the same school.
@ Cyndi- My brother did a postmatric at MHS in 1979 and so maybe our brothers would have played against each other.Yes it is strange how times have changed. A bursary now is prestigious and competition amongst the boys whereas previously it was considered a hand out.Likewise to board is now the in thing whereas in my day it was a threat.I cannot tell you how many times I heard” if you do not behave you will be sent to boarding school”. Another point that has been raised is whether the children of wealthier parents should actually accept bursaries. I remember this argument being raised when one of my cousins won the academic scholarship at Hilton when his father was the Chairman of the Board of Governors and extremely wealthy.It was agreed that why should his efforts be diminished by the position of his father.He won it fair and square after all and should be rewarded for it.A fine balance indeed.
@Cyndi – I do believe the rumours have some partial fact in that the school scouts were out in force during the U12/13 rugby trials and season. And many boys probably take a conversation with one of the scouts as an “offer” of a bursary (as you say – a status symbol). So the “rumour mill” probably does end up with many more bursaies in circulation than those that would actually be offered. But then that is also marketing – cast the net wide and then seperate your catch once you have something (especially for some of the KZN reps in various codes that have more than one school chasing them).
That said – we were in the fortunate position to have a number of real offers come to us from all the major Durban/PMB schools (Hilton & MHS being the exception), some schools far more hard sell than others – and not always (as a parent) having the feeling that the school had the childs best interest in mind – but rather the school and potential results were more important.
Yes – I was at school in the mid 80’s and a number of bursaries were offered (normally as a “reduction in fees”) for many activities – “A” aggregate, subject prizes, Midlands or KZN sports representation (and I’m sure there were a few others too). I also knew of a few Old Boys bursaries for the BE. So nothing new – but agree with Cyndi – generally seen as a “bonus” for achievers already at school – or a help for deserving boys from parents who were struggling – no real middle ground.
@HORSEFLY NO.1:
His brother is at Glenwood so is natural he would too.
I am amused at all the ‘rumours’ mentioned in this blog. I’m putting this in the context of overhearing two boys saying they were going to rattle their coaches cage by saying they were offered bursaries at another school. If any school offered the number of bursaries it was rumoured to, that school would be bankrupt.
In terms of the discussion about bursaries being a new thing – my brother was offered a full bursary at a number of KZN schools (he matriculated in 1979). He turned these down as accepting a bursary meant you were “poor” and my parents are very proud people. Through blogs like these, bursaries have become status symbols to many of the boys … sad but true.
@Horsey: He’s going to GW
@NW_Knight:
)
.
Read again , i think youll find it says IF on it, thats not starting a rumour but stating a scenario mate.
Hopefully your rugby management does have it under control and keeps on improving(not as much as to overtake us though
@Rugger fan:
My sisters kid goes there and Deons kid is actually going to Kearsney mate, most of those Virginia kids are actually going to Crawford and Clifton with a couple going to Kearsney ,Michaelhouse and one to College, then the remainder generally to Northwood .DHS usually grab one or two also
Also, do you know where Penzance kid M. V Rensburg is going next year(fingers crossed its not Glenwood!!!)
Deon Kaysers son should be coming up from Virginia?
@Horsey: There you go again – starting rumors. No-one said anything about expelled players. they’re certainly not wanted at NW.
I think the current rugby management structure is on top of everything and there will be a difference next year. NW recruit from the local schools (Chelsea, Virginia, Northlands etc). Last season is last season – now let’s look forward.
@GreenBlooded:
Im saying its not as bad as taking from your next door neighbours! And also, the boys that we take from schools out of kzn are usually from disadvantaged areas mate! Thus we are actually doing them a favour for a bit in return
@NW_Knight:
I think its great for NW if these kids are going there but then again if they are kids whove been expelled then it wouldnt do much good for the Northwood reputation. Rather start building from the bottom i.e U14. I think your u14 this year scored like 20 points whilst conceding 250 in 7 tier 1 games. This then means that your u15 success in opens will be sort of a once off as they wont have the players to back them up. Then the whole build from the bottom becomes a sort of a stop start process which is not good.
Also, where do northwood recruit grade 7 rugga players from??
@Grasshopper: Whatever bru … what you said and what you now say you meant was kinda different. Suggest we let it rest.
@Gungets, what I meant was Glenwood was average at sport back in my day and the 90 years prior, with a sprinkling of very good sides and individuals. College was always the pace setter and benchmark for sport in KZN. My point is these days College is no longer the benchmark in all sport with Glenwood & Westville especially upping their game. I mean take athletics for example, prior to 2000 no KZN school could come anywhere near to College, now DHS and Glenwood are above them. College were invincible in cricket, now Westville and Glenwood have beaten them a few times of late. Same with rugby. My point was that previously if you were a sportsman the pinnacle was College, it’s now spread amongst the schools. A swimmer goes to Westville, a tennis player to Glenwood, a canoeist or hockey player goes to College, a waterpolo player to Clifton. Kids are now looking to other schools to take their sporting careers further….
@Gungets Tuft: Glad we agree on that because I think he has copped a lot of mis-directed flak – and he is a decent man alround.
We will agree to disagree on the other issue – I have asked as well.
@GreenBlooded: I did ask (no car park gossip) .. hence my “hmmmm”. Personally, I regard the “certain acquatics coach” as a huge and preventable loss but there you go. He was a good man at College, good man at Glenwood and his approach to the fixtures following his departure was decent as well. Moving swiftly on ….
@Grasshopper: Some aquatics coaches as well……
Just joking Gungets/All Black!! Don’t kill me.
Seriously – if you need to know why a teacher/coach/boy moves from one school to another – just ask them. Dangerous to jump to conclusions without knowing the facts – car park gossip can be a terrible thing.
@Grasshopper: “some College kids are seeing it the other way around” … hmmm. Ok .. let’s just leave it there then.
@Grasshopper: Lets not get into the usual argument regarding your last sentence. I will agree to disagree on the Rudi issue. Also know him.
@Greenblooded: Couldn’t agree with you more. When I went to school,there were no scholarships and boys went to their local high school. Unfortunately, the scholarship “feeding frenzy” has created a vicious circle.
@Grassy: “10 or more” is a rumor and nothing more. Fact is, more potential 1st team boys have applied to come to NW than those that have been “recruited”. 10 U15A, U16A and 1st team boys from other schools have already been turned away in the last 3 months.
@Gungets Tuft: I’m aware that you can apply for fee-remission in cases of dire financial need – and that is a good thing provided there are methods to weed out those that take the piss which I can assure you are many.
Doesn’t change the fact that there are many cases of wealthy families getting a free ride on the backs of other less fortunate ‘2 parents at work’ families strugging to make ends meet courtesy of the school sports bursary system. I am fortunate that I have the means to send my son to the school he chose on my own account despite him receiveing an offer from another school.
@Greenblooded (edited): I like a lot of what you say – but an outright ban is probably not feasible – otherwise the rugger buggers will just be winning “academic” scholarships – or would suddenly be “economically disadvantaged” or “deserving sons of old boys” – or someone whose aunt lived near the school, in the 1960’s.
But the emphasis on sporting codes places a lot of pressure on kids. Not just to perform – but also to perform in the given set of sports. Cricket and Rugby – great – Hockey, swimming, athletics – OK – all the rest – probably not so prestigeous and only likely to draw a smaller percentage bursary.
I remember the days at Varsity when each bursary had a clear set of criteria to be met – e.g. “academic”; “subject choice – e.g. Mech Eng”; “sporting code specific”; “ethnicity”; etc. so it is fine to have a number of bursaries for each school for each code – but a world class basketball or tennis player is probably more likely to make more money in the long run from his sport (playing professionally in the US) than a cricket or rugby player – but will probably not acheieve the credit or kudos while in the SA schooling system.
SA SBR seems to be heading downj the US college sport route with a degree of celebrity status – but only a small percentage going on to club, provincial & national level. Perhaps this is where the emphasis should be in converting these players into the club scene rather?
@All Black and Gungets, Rudi de Vry is a personal friend of mine. He went to Brighton Beach with me on the Bluff growing up. Anyway, if memory serves me correctly he was the College strike bowler in 1996 taking the most wickets in the season. He too played 1st and 2nd team lock and was the best discus thrower in the province. He was also a very powerful swimmer and waterpolo player. Basically he was a very good athlete. He did want to stay at Glenwood, but I feel he knew the 1996 matric group (mine) was very weak and he sort glory. He has admitted this himself. College did offer him a very lucrative deal so it was an easy decision. Play is a young struggling side or join a talented bunch and thrive. I can tell you he felt really bad the day we played College as he felt a bit like a traitor. He never said this openly but did feel this. Anyway, my point is Glenwood have lost quite a few very talented sportsman to College because they wanted to be in winning sides amongst better players to probably help their own games. Thank goodness this is no longer the case and some College kids are seeing it the other way around….:-)
@GreenBlooded: Great post. Perhaps it should be the parents who finally put their foot down and sign a petition t all headmasters. Stop the rot now.
@GreenBlooded: A few things about fees.
1. There is a way to apply for assistance for fees, whether you are a top sportsman or not. You just need to prove that you are not able to pay fees. I know single moms that have had this from Grade 1 – daughter and son in one case (son is now on full sports scholarship at one of the tier 1 schools).
2. College offer at least 5 full scholarships for needy kids, fees and BE, from an outside sponsor – Allan Gray I think. Then there are “closed” scholarships offered by companies. I am not sure how many are paid by the school themselves
3. There is “under the counter” stuff that goes on, never noted in the school documents. My son was “offered” between 25% and 50% off fees at 2 Durban schools. College did not offer anything and he decided to go there. It is costing me R60K a year more than if he had decided to go to Northwood. And anyone who thinks I save on expenses with him living in BE does not have a 15 year old son :-)
Never going to stop it, but the school needs to be mindful of their reputation – perhaps by being transparent about the scholarships, and make sure that they can never exceed 100% of fees and BE – if they do then effectively the kid (or parents) are being paid for sport and I am pretty sure school sport is an amateur code. College publish about 30 in their Year Book – no idea whether that is the whole lot. Amounts are not mentioned.
@NW_Knight, if the rumours are true and Northwood do get 10 or more new 1st team players then sorry to say that is a Barbarian side. Glenwood had 3 relative newbies this year, Coetzee, Potgieter and Van Aardt, with Van Aardt probably being the biggest success with regards to integrating into the team. That is a 5th of the starting 15, not 2/3rds! Anyway, Glenwood proved this year that bringing in players does not work, causes more disruption than anything considering this age group beat everything in the paths going up the years and now had a mediocre matric year.
@Pedantic: @NW_Knight: Perhaps suggesting that Northwood don’t have an existing program in place is a bit harsh on my part. They have caused upsets over the years, most notably MHS,DHS,Glenwood and Campbell w/in the last 3 seasons.
Aside from the successful u15A team that played 7 won 5 against Tier 1 teams, the u16A: P:7 W:0 L:7, u14A P:7 W:0 L:7, 2nd XV: P:6 W:2 L:4. This is an overall record of P:27 W:7 L:20 and without the u15A: P:20 W:2 L:18. The u15A results have been the exception to the Northwood trend. The injection of new players could see a few fixtures that were lost this year being turned into victories 2013.
@NW_Knight: Yes – all the moral/ethic opinions doing the rounds make for interesting reading. Amazingly and without exception these moral and ethical standards seem to be in perfect sync with the activities at the proponents respective school of choice. As has also been seen, they are also prone to be tweaked or radically adjusted on the same basis as circumstances at the proponent’s school change – lamenting certain practices at a rival school only to start employing the self same practices when a cash pile is stumbled upon – then it’s all OK!!
Who get’s to set these moral/ethical guidelines? Who gets to decide that it’s “OK to recruit Gr7’s but not after that”? In my opinion, if schools are offering financial incentives to boys at any age-group and for any reason to attend their school then they have no right to wave the finger. How many schools can make that claim?
In my most humble opinion – I’d like to see national legislation in place to place and OUTRIGHT BAN on sports bursaries at schools – other than for deserving cases where there is a genuine financial need. I’d like to go back to the 80’s where we played College / DHS or whoever and we won or lost depending on how hard we trained or how good our players were – not who had the biggest cheque book. If things continue on the current track – that is what it will boil down to. The most successful schools will be those with the biggest bankroll. The have-nots will cry foul – until their ship comes in then it will all be OK.
One aspect of this that doesn’t sit well in my gut is that these scholarships are dished out without any regard to financial need. Kid’s from wealthy families get a free ride on the back of other kids who’s parents struggle to afford the fees – now THAT is a moral question that needs answering!
@Grasshopper: Grass. Bad example of Rudi De Vry. He went to College for post matric when that was the accepted thing. He wanted to go to College and that was the way to do it. If he hadnt gone to College he would have gone somewhere else. Not stayed at Glenwood.
@Pedantic: Couldn’t agree more.
@beet: While most of what you say is true, we musn’t forget that the NW U15’s of 2012 are probably the 2nd strongest team among the traditional rivalries (2nd only to GW).
I see many comments about NW’s new aggressive recruiting, IMO they have been quietly building for a couple of years and the current U15 crop will go a long way in showing they’re on the up which ultimately can only be a good thing for SBR.
I don’t believe Northwood and Glenwood are in the same bracket with regards to the impact recruits could have on the team/school dynamic. Glenwood have successful rugby teams in all age-groups and stand to lose more than they gain if they bring in the wrong kind of player no matter now talented he is. Northwood have some room to improve on their results and possibly are in a situation where some boys who are actually B-team quality players find themselves in the A-team at the moment. The chances of recruited talented boys adding value to NW teams is far greater than at Glenwood. IOW the pros heavily outweigh the cons.
I also feel that in order to kickstart a successful rugby programme, results speak loudest. It’s far easier to get prospective Gr 8 parents to commit if they believe things are on the up. Recruiting above Gr8 might not be a good thing in the long run once the program is delivering results but there are benefits to using it in the short term to get the ball rolling.
@NW_Knight: The rumour mill North of the Umgeni isn’t the only one working at the moment. The ones in central Durban, up the Highway, below and above Town Hill all going strong. :grin:
@Gungets: Couldn’t agree with you more. Fact is, there’s a lot more rumor than fact at the moment. NW will have a very good U14 team next year (with not many CW players – often they make CW because of the schools they attend). Very, very few have rugby scholarships.
Other sides will remain the same. One prop has joined in Gr10 this term. A few others were scouted at GK and other festivals – certainly not enough to warrant “NW Barbarians” – which is rich coming from Glenwood.
The most important thing is that there have been a lot of applications from boys of all age groups. In fact, NW has turned away a total of 8 boys who played U16A or 1st team for their schools this year based on them not meeting the admission criteria.
@NW_Knight: Wrong. Don’t get confused between marketing the school to Grade 7’s for the start of their High School career, and recruiting from traditional rivals in higher grades. I am not climbing too high onto that gravity prone “moral high ground” – College were for many years the best recruiters in the business. Skonk Nicholson used to go to every primary school game in PMB, pick out the promising kids, and then have conversations with the parents. He had a unique ability to spot talent and that shows in the results of College from the 1sts down to the U14H over many years. There was no financial incentive in those days, just the reputation of the school and the possibility of being under the guidance of one of the best rugby coaches South Africa has ever seen. Things have changed a lot and the only constant is the drive by schools to attract the best. Methods, incentives, the possibility of making a career from sport – all these bear no resemblance to the 70’s and 80’s. How schools respond to the changes is what makes and breaks reputations. I hope those schools that have a mind to the honourable think carefully about the way they do what is necessary – including my old school.
Boys (parents!?!?) will have reasons to move as well, it is not as if talented kids are at the mercy of schools to decide their futures. Two prominent examples that spring to mind are Henry Honniball and Marcel Coetsee, arriving on the scene very late. My beef is with the methods of recruitment, promises and money, often using inside knowledge to sharpen the blade – I just think it lacks ethics and will leave a stain long after the kid has left the school. I hope temporary gain has not displaced honour and tradition.
I have tried to stay out of this debate, other than a little lapse in the 2nd term, but I do respond when “all schools” are lumped into the same sentence. I will now climb down from this high ground … just in case …
Odd – all these ethics and morals floating around now? From what I’ve read, everybody is poaching/buying/attracting/securing players from every other school – so there should be no problem
@HORSEFLY NO.1: So you are saying that it’s morally OK to recruit/attract/buy/poach players from outside KZN but not from inside? Please tell me which moral compass you used to come up with that one?
@Grasshopper:
Theres a difference between shopping at your fellow kzn schools or going out into another provinceto shop.
Guess which you do and which we do???
@Grasshopper: Ok – so firstly he was a cricketer first, not the athlete first. Are you saying he was a post-matric – and went to College because they were the best cricket team around at the time. 1996 were an incredible team, played 22, won 20, drew 2 – beat St Andrews, Affies, Grey Coll, KES, dominated local opposition. College would certainly not have had to oversell any of their 90’s teams. Not sure College would have had to shell out pencils or anything to attract him.
Best you look for another example – that one leaks.
@Horsie, I can guarantee DHS will have new faces too. So what makes DHS more innocent then?
@Gungets, agreed bad mouthing is not the right way to go. Rudi got attracted to College as he knew playing in the 1996 1st team at College would almost guarantee him provincial recognition for cricket. He joined as part of the College post matric efforts to counter Michaelhouse and Hilton’s previous post matric levels. My point is that it did happen, not saying it happens now though. NO school is completely innocent….
@Grasshopper:
More clever? Half your 1st team this year is from the eastern cape so i dont know what you on about. Also, theres a very long list of DHS boys(again, i could even provide if you want) that glenwood has either already got or still wants! And you dont want to know what kind of ‘deals’ are being offered mate.
5 of our U14A players had already been offered by Glenwood before the two schools even played each other! The boys refused but Glenwood will keep searching till they find what theywant. I can say now there will be at least 2 new boys in glenwood 2013 u15as!! Could be more!
@Grasshopper: My view of poaching is when you trash talk a school and then tell the recipient how much better the facilities, systems, opportunities will be at the new school (such as throw away a comment or two about influence etc). Dig again with your mate Rudi and find out the real truth. I have no knowledge of that instance but find it incredibly difficult to believe an athlete would move from Glenwood to Pietermaritzburg (the town) – there is something else to it.
just saying ;-)
@Gungets, College poached a few Glenwood athletes in the 90’s, Rudi de Vry being one…
@GreenBlooded: Not all of them poach. Just saying.
@Horsie, DHS buys from the Eastern Cape just like Glenwood (Tom and Payi), I know DHS branded cars were seen in and around Dale and Queens recently. Glenwood are even more clever and recruiting from the Vaal and Western Cape. DHS must just keep their dirty paws off Glenwood talent. My nephew is at Glenwood and he had some silly offers from DHS, alot more than any fancy pencils. I told my Dad and he said as long it was not with his money he contributed to DHS….desperate times cal for desperate measures. Losing to Glenwood for 10 years in a row is not an option for DHS Old Boys…
@GreenBlooded:
mate, i have the proof to back it up! DHS doesnt buy from its fellow kzn schools, not even tier2 schools
@Grasshopper: All schools recruit/attract/poach/buy or whatever semantic you care to mention. It really amuses me how other schools point fingers at Glenwood but forget about the 4 pointing back.
It is going to get really interesting when the medical aid schemes start up (if they haven’t already) – then you we will see who practices what they preach – it’s going to be difficult to spend a reported R4bar a year for 5 years without it popping above the radar at some point and then the hypocrits will be exposed. Maybe some of the medical aid will be used on a good spin doctor. As one blogger (Gingets?) said “The hardest fall is from moral high-ground”. We will see. Interesting times ahead.
@Horsie, it’s my opinion that the kid who left was a better fit at Glenwood because he was a Glenwood boy. He obviously got fed up and left knowing his 1st team spot had been guaranteed to a player who was new at the school. Maybe he should have stayed and proved he was better…..that’s history now. I agree that schools should not approach any kids from rival local schools and that should apply to ALL local schools as I do know DHS has sniffed around some Glenwood sportsman as they did with my mate Travis Logie back in the 90’s. He went to DHS because they gave him a surfing bursary and guaranteed him surfing colours. Glenwood at the time did not offer surfing colours…
@Grasshopper:
Interesting how after this year everyone saw MHS as this school with really good sides but their 2nds were very dismal this year showing their focus on just A teams.
Also dont think its right to say’lost a better prop than Marne’ the kid is much likely to be reading this.
I also think that the whole thing of buying from your neighbour schools is not good at all!!! Leave these schools be!
An example, DHS grade 8 group, best the schools had overall in years, obviously to ensure a good matric group for when the schools 150. What if Glenwood,Kearsney,Westville all decide they need to have some of our boys for themselves?
What if they are offered scholarships they simply cant refuse? Is DHS now not robbed of their very good intake?
Rather schools ‘battle’ it out for grade 7 boys and leave boys where they are after that unless of course its the boy and his family’s desire to leave the place!
No wonder DHS hasnt improved like how it shouldve!
@All, agreed. Glenwood learnt from Marne and Warren this year. Bringing in newbies disrupts the team more than anything. It breeds mistrust amongst the current boys and they get fed up. Glenwood actually lost a better prop than Marne due to this. I feel schools should recruit between grade 8 and 10, then let the teams settle into a pattern and get to know each other. The Northwood Barbarians may look amazing on paper but might not gel. Glenwood in 2011 were a prime example of this, good enough to beat a few sides when it clicked but not top 3 material. Michaelhouse proved loyalty and teamwork pay off…
@nwood and nw knight
I dont really think those new ‘recruits’ will do that much for your 1st side and i dont know whether its really good for the team to have all these new rugga players. I know it may seem all jolly good now but watch out for it blowing up in your face mate!
I think next year will see the usual boys fighting it out but i also forsee hilton dropping from the form they were in this year, and College will be very good, the DHS forwards will be very small but the backline will be very good!
@NW_Knight: To be honest I have no problem how and what schools do if it is not targeting existing boys at other schools in the province. I also actually do not mind if boys are brought in for their matric year etc as I know this eventually works against the school and they go backwards with the fall out from existing pupils and parents. Not saying that any of these boys fall into that category as I am totally in the dark. Good for NW if they have manged to secure some top talent. It all comes down to making them into a team.
@All Black: The truth is simple. None of the new recruits to date are courtesy of the Sharks or Sharks Academy. All were recruited the good old fashioned way (GK etc).
NW has a very limited number of BE scholarships (much less than 10), so you can work it out for yourself. Trust me when I say Swys has had very little to do with recruitment – I think everyone is so fixated on him, we forget the MIC etc.
@GreenBlooded: Love it. Took me sometime to work out it was English. BBM language.
@Rugger fan: This process is at a more advanced stage in Pretoria. But things are a little different there. For 1 thing there are 2 major Unions operating in 1 province + over and above this competition there seems to follow a tier system across the whole of the old Transvaal.
I was told that the Bulls have placed kids from other regions in at least 5 of their major schools in the past but that 2 of these schools are now no longer in favour of recruits joining in Gr11-12 because it causes disruptions.
This relocation strategy will evolve. Chances are we will start seeing recruited big props and tall locks in KZN schools in the next few years.
@Grasshopper
“Schools are non-profit -well that is changing. The private schools are trusts – that are run for sustainability – and their budgeting is really commercially driven (so bursaries etc. are all really part of building their brand). The larger government schools (GW, DHS, College, WV etc.) really are driven by results too – I am sure that even some of the platteland schools (like Pioneer or Newcastle) offer bursaries to try keep some local talent at home.
But with the advent of school models sych as Crawford, CURRO and some of the others – these are purely commercial ventures and some are even listed on the JSE. So I wonder if in 10 or 20 years time we’ll be having the debate about the commercial schools “buying” players and “professional schools” vs “government schools” tournament occuring? A bit like Kerry Packer started with cricket? Perhaps just some ramble – or perhaps a view of the future?
I also wonder if the other provinces have similar debates (perhaps SACS and Rondebosch get the WP talent to the detriment of other schools – Affies, Waterkloof, PBHS in Pretoria)?
@nwood: What language is that?
Nwood have bin in da shadows of kzn rugby 4 sumtym with only Justin Downey of Griquas da only recognised player nd I thnk selectors are biased.If u luk at this season yes it was a bad season but their captain Wade Worthington was outstandin and put most centres he played wit in their place yet he neva made a single kzn team I do question da selection nd hope this cud change with so many recruits on da way can’t w8 4 da new season..
@Beet, I like the idea of schools cutting ties with the Sharks. The Sharks are a commercial entity just wanting to make a profit. Schools are non profit distributing educational organisations and should not be linked. The top 10 schools not wanting to be involved with the Sharks should create their own league, as has happened for the past 100 years plus. The KZN schools side can then be picked by an independent panel with one rep from each school. The Sharks Under18 side can be picked from the Sharks Academy and players they have brought in from other provinces. This Sharks Under18 side can then play at Craven Week and hopefully come up against the KZN Schools side and get a klap. Any coaches associated with the Sharks should then either decide to sever ties with the Sharks or join them coaching at the Academy. This way the headmasters can run their league and there will be no fingers pointed at coaches supposed to be linked with the Sharks. I would prefer that as that will alleviate all the fingers pointed at the Glenwood coach and why so many Glenwood players made the KZN Schools side when the head coach is from Kearsney…
@beet: Hahahahahha!!! You crack me up.
@GreenBlooded:
I believe extensions may be granted in unusual cases where the taxpayers have not been able to accurately determine their number of dependants and/or whether or not they qualified for the disability/handicap deductions as well in the tax year.
@beet: mmmmm – I guess the significance of the date (01/02/2013) is the end of the tax year where these things would need to be declared? You can run but you can’t hide!!
@GreenBlooded:
There are only ±135 days between now and 01/03/2013. By then we will all have a good idea about which school has been on which medical aid scheme these past few months.
@All Black: True! I know there are some officials that are disappointed by comments made suggesting that KZN Schools selectors are biased. I was one of those that hoped the selection process could be reassigned to an independent of schools scout/selector with more dedication to the process than Garth Giles the current Sharks man has. But this was always under the assumption that the new person would be employed by the Sharks. It won’t work if the Sharks have their own agenda about who should be selected.
Perhaps the solution or inevitable outcome down the line is that the Sharks Academy opens it’s doors to Gr 11s and 12s who want to make a career out of rugby and SBR is left with students who play rugby with passion but also with the appropriate amount time and energy that an extramural activity should be allocated. The Sharks Academy students can then play club and Provincial u18 rugby while the normal school students focus on traditional inter-schools rugby without the opportunity of July provincial selection attached to it.
What is the lastest with the school’s medical aid schemes? Has Uncle Stephen cracked the nod yet? Which school gets which medical aid? These details would be good to know and would probably expkain a few things.
@beet: Beet you are right on the button here. If a school has a tie with the union and this is used to recruit then we are heading down a very murky road. There will always be the provincial selection problem. We were wanting the KZNRU to become more involved in arms length selection but this would make even that a no no. Going to get messy I am afraid.
Like I’ve said before, I’m not opposed to recruiting. I’ve noticed that most tier 1 KZN schools recruit to varying degrees. My concern comes about when the Sharks have a hand in the matter. The Sharks are best placed to manipulate the system to ensure this their youngster gets preferential selection treatment because he is their investment. I’m not saying this is or will happen but it is a realistic fear that an organisation which essential should not have much say in the running of KZN School rugby, should have this kind of power.
I believe that the Sharks must either be transparent, giving all big rugby schools equal opportunity to acquire one of their candidates or they must reliquish power to have a say in the selecting of KZN representative teams, then they can feel free to work with their 1 or 2 choice schools.
Off hand I can’t think of 1 school that has pledged loyalty to the Sharks in terms of where their players go after school (not that they necessarily can). Instead all schools seem dedicated to creating the best opportunities for players to go to the tertiary institutions of their choice after school. But I worry that in the not to distant future that when the squeeze comes, kids that decide to pursue careers that are not Sharks Academy related, may come off second best at KZN rep team trials, irrespective of how good they are.
I really would like to be proven wrong in this line of thinking.
@NW_Knight: Lots of talk going around. Would be nice to know the truth.
@All Black: I think it’s time you get a new source for rumors
Some comments here are right on the button but some a little naive. The reality of the current situation is that schools are now ultra competitive and pro sport has found its way into the system. It was only a matter of time so we cannot blame a school for starting it or another school for taking it to the next level. The USA is a prime example of where we are headed. They have had to put in place strict conditions regarding recruitment etc for their football teams. Rugby is a national pastime and schools combine this with a host of other facets of a school to promote their school. Whatever anyone says, sport, rugby in particular, is the main marketing tool. What is different between SA and USA football is that we just do not have the numbers to make every team competitive. Hence the ‘buying’ war. A mediocre sportsman can now be offered a 100% bursary. Something that was unheard of 10 years ago. The private schools are offering top sportsman the opportunity of private schooling for free. Something which was totally out of reach to the boy as far as finances are concerned. The debate can go on for eternity if private schooling is better than govt schooling and we can argue till the cows come home who ‘buys’ more. Some people say it is not buying but recruiting? If you pay out to get something you are buying it. Some schools, concentrate on their A Teams and are not too concerned about the results of the lower teams. This is where the problems creep in. It becomes all about one result in the day. Parents of boys in the lower teams are justifiably anti the buying as it is taking away opportunities from their kids. This becomes even more of a problem when a fee paying student at a private school is kept out of a team by a kid on a free ride. I know, I have a mate who is acid with his particular school for this reason. What the headmasters are trying to do is admirable but unfortunately will just be a delaying the obvious for awhile. I have heard that a Dbn North school has ‘recruited’ up to 10 new top players for their 1st team next year. What rules are there to stop this? I look at all the suggestions from the headmasters and wonder how, if this is true, could this happen? I do wonder what the 10 boys who would have played 1st team next year are saying? Bottom line is that each school should be able to look themselves in the mirror and say we have done the best we can for ‘THE BOYS’ not for the old boys or marketing departments. As fee paying parents we just want what is best for our kids and we expect, no demand, that our school and the headmaster does what is best for our kids. If you are happy that this is the case at your kids school then great. If you are not paying for their education can you demand anything?
@nwood:
Is the prop already there? Also, what other schools are getting players?
Eventually all the schools will have Barbarians sides where most of the boys have never played together and non of the pupils actually know their names until match day. Let’s hope not!!
i have heard bwt da rumour og skuls recruiting u16HP players nd one of them is at nwood from valke a big prop
@ old school- The obvious question you raised is why the emphasis on rugby when the chances of future success are mimimal as opposed to a having a solid academic foundation. There is no headmaster or enlightened parent that does not understand this.I gave the example of DHS who adopted a relatively passive rugby recruitment program only to have to play catch up and incur the wrath of their OBs.Several bloggers have questioned whether they will ever catch up.This has created a real fear amongst school management and old boys who have responded more aggressively in recruitment( for both boys and coaches). I think the Hilton rugby coach might be one of the most expensive people on the schools books.Boundaries have been pushed (taxis/pocket money) and hence the need for an agreement to ensure this does not escalate beyond redemption and get away from the basic principles as described in the Wynberg article.Parents realise that free schooling is a possibility if your son is competitive hence the agressive support and over age issues.Again you are 100% correct in theory only for it to be let down by the harsh reality at play.
@oldschool:
Thanks for that article – I think I should move my son to Wynberg!!
Most of the time when at rugby I am up and down the side line taking photos. I tend to be “invisible” so a lot gets said in my presence and I have to confess there are very few coaches and supporter groups that make me think “Wow a rugby fan”. I am saddened by the abuse of the ref, the opposing players, the touch judge, and even the ball ‘boys’. I am amused by coaches who reprimand their players for abusing the ref but are worse than the boys and I feel very sorry for the wings who have to listen to this constantly. Yes, sometimes the officials do the wrong thing but then deal with it appropriately.
I used to chose the side of the field based on the sun’s position in the sky, after the past 2 weeks, I will chose it based on the lack of abuse to the players.
@star: How have i missed the point ?? the article is about KZN school heads coming together and formulating procedures to stop age group cheats and recruiting protocols….we are in this position due to the fact that schools , old boys and parents are placing to much emphasis on the sport resulting in a scenario where boys cheat their ages and schools go beyond normal ethical behaviour to recruit players to their schools , making it attractive to the boy to move as their is financial reward to the families ….hence my case that many 1st teams are infact barbarian type teams with players whom have done their base developement at other schools ……i am saying what is the upside , as yes the school may win a few more games but the chances of that individual making a meaningful carreer out of rugby is almost impossible ….so that begs the question , why all the emphasis placed on a sport that does not offer many oppurtunities of employment !!!!please see this article , makes for some interesting reading http://www.supersport.com/rugby/juniors/news/120720/Schoolboy_rugby_deserves_better
KZN Coastals: http://www.saschoolsports.co.za/cricket/kwazulu-natal/cricket-kzn-u19-u17-teams.html
@Pedantic, I agree with you. I just get annoyed when some bloggers seem to claim the school they support is whiter than white and completely innocent when it comes to recruitment. They all do it…you comment about Tom was below the belt. Glenwood would not have allowed to him to play or study if they knew his true age, it could have happened to any other school. He even pulled the wool over the eyes of KZN Schools, SA Schools and Sharks Under 19 administrators….makes you think….
@Grasshopper: You seriously missed the point of my comment – it’s got nothing to do with “my school is better/fairer than yours” – the point is, regardless of which school one supports, we are still entitled to an independent opinion and just because we support a certain school doesn’t mean we necessarily agree with all their policies. Go read it again
If you’re arguing which school is better than which, then I cannot answer … IMO there is no single school that is the best fit for every kid – children are all vastly different and the various schools have strengths and weaknesses, it all depends on the individual.
Copy the full URL including the .pdf and past into browser, that will work…
To those interested, see here for ALL of Glenwood’s Durban, KZN and SA reps for 2012; http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/sites/default/files/Glenwood%20KZN%20and%20SA%20Representitives%202012(2).pdf
@Grasshopper: You are not completely right there, Kearsney might filter but not to the extent that they eliminate possible “fails”. I know 2 kids at Kearsney that are not top sportsmen and are in a remedial class where they would struggle at any school. In fact, if my son was struggling academically, Kearsney or Clifton would be my choices simply due to their remedial work. If you want to see manipulation of matric candidates, look at Crawford. They do not hesitate to get rid of any kids who will not get a 70% average.
@kcob:
Do share on the U16 HP players and the schools they could be going to mate!
@kcob: That would be IEB – Independent Examinations Board – most private schools write that, excluding Crawford who write the National Senior Certificate as do government schools.
@Pendantic, Kearsney gave every decent sportsman at my primary school an bursary or scholarship and that was in 1991. Kearsney have been doing it for years. Boys from average backgrounds just can’t say no to full bursaries and scholarships to Kearsney. It’s a no brainer! Kearsney have just done it more on the quiet. Kearsney just buys in a good A side and then claims to be great, no depth at all. Glenwood give out about 30 bursaries a year, so about 150 boys across the school…..so no where near to Kearsney’s 600 odd boys. Kearsney is elitist whereas Westville, Glenwood, DHS, College and Northwood cater for all boys, including the average ones in both academics and sport. Any school can claim 100% pass rate when every boy has to pass an entrance exam to get in. A filter that excludes those kids who struggle…
Sorry, my grammar was a little poor! I promise it is not my education or schools fault, just Friday night, couch, iPad, beer, sharks in the background, and the thought I am playing daddy daycare the whole weekend while the missus is on a girls weekend! Classic though; she posts on FB: “Girls weekend….bliss”. My only reply was, “feet on couch, rugby, fart, burb, pizza, glass on the table….bliss!”…..Bwah ha ha ha!
Guys, III don’t think Kearsney (I think there are others), cannot be compared to most schools because they don’t write the same academic exams. I think write something called the IED, independent Education “something”.
So perhaps they should not be compared as this may be comparing an archer to a chess player!
Guys, we should not be slating each others schools, seriously.
Anyone heard a rumor that certain u16 HP Players may be joining certain Durban school/s next year to bolster them / Sharks Academey? Hope not with our great home grown talent right here!
@GreenBlooded:
Showing how 2 faced the schools they came from are!
When the Siyabonga Tom story broke, I seem to remember saying that Glenwood supporters would need to man up and endure cheap shots for at least 3-4 seasons. Glad to see I’m still on the money.
DHS and Glenwood remain to this day the only 2 schools who have gone on record, stated their cases and taken stern action against their offenders. The other boys – 5 at the very least – just vannished into the ether.
Just out of opinion , what school can say that not more than half their ‘A’ rugby is on scholarship. I’m sure in the 15 boys that run on atleast 8 are on full scholarship, maybe not for rugby only, maybe for two sports or academics.
@GreenBlooded:
Yeah hes quite old but still who he was many years ago.
Interestingly, DHS have won this tournament 13 times( most by any schools in kzn) with Clifton winning the last S tournaments though, aslo, the clifton coach is a former DHS coach.
DHS1st side is a WOP. Though,
Just in: DHS 0- Hilton 4(not bad considering DHS lost. 17-6 earlier in the season)
@Grasshopper: Grassy, so you’re saying that as a school supporter, one cannot put your own independent opinions out in public?
Oldschool put his views out there and it’s a laugh because he supports a school that recruits for grade 8?
I guess that means you cannot post anything against playing 23 year olds in school rugby or poaching players from other schools to strengthen your own ranks. (to the point of bringing them to Glenwood on the school bus while returning from tour!)
Having said that .. I would think that Westville / Glenwood have more kids on scholarships / bursaries than Kearsney has students in total.
@ Greenblooded- You guys are like trout to my wooley bugger.Maybe green does become you.Seriously though if you read my post carefully I referred to TH as a link to the article in the paper.You could replace his name with any other headmaster as they all understand what old school was saying.Rugby recruitment is a tool to improve a schools rating.(more so than any sport-although the fact that Westville is unofficially( for All Blacks patience) ranked No 1 in cricket is mooi).I then made some general statements and the example I gave does not imply that Westville is an innocent at all.
@ Grassy- I hate talking race but as follows:
Westvilles top 3 in 2011 were white. In 2010 when Westville had 3 in the top 10 and all the other KZN boys schools put together had nil, there was one Indian and and 2 white. In 2009 when Westville had the 1 and 2 in KZN both were white.Not really the picture you have painted but thanks for the opportunity to lay Westville’s academic marker.
@GreenBlooded: I used to play against Alan Burt when I was at school playing for Seals in PMB. He wouldn’t remember me – I was the lightie the ballies used to feed steroids to and make play “fetch and Carry” all night.
Graham – played 1sts with him at College. He was much older than me, I think I played 2 years with him. He played SA Schools keeper, SA U19 as well. Not sure about at Open level but will ask. College will improve, but remember they had Steve L-M before this who was a great acquatics coach so perhaps it is about hte raw material as well. Silk Purses etc.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Alan Burt taught at Glenwood while I was there but let us know in no uncertain terms that DHS was where is heart was. Great maths teacher and very astute polo and swimming coach. Nice to hear he is still invovled. But hell – he must be old now??
Clifton and DHS are the dominant forces – but watch College who recently aquired the services of Graham Waters who has a special interest in aquatics and played/coached at representative level – I’m sure Gungets or All Black can give specifics. Glenwood should also be improving courtesy of Steve La Marque.
Geez College just lost to Thomas More. Didnt know they even played. No disrespect to TM.
@all
Good luck to all schools participating at the kzn top10 waterpolo tournament starting today. I know DHS will be looking for good performances in the U14 and U15 age groups with U14 being our best chance( they, along side clifton dominate the KZN side)
Hopefully legendary teacher-coach Alan Burt does something special with those boys.
GO SCHOOL!!
@star
Are you serious? Its quite sad what Westville did to make themselves look good by not releasing the truth to the public!
DHS and GW were basically played by students,sorry men who were given a chance to showcase their skills at more high profile schools! It wasnt the schools who did this for just their own purposes . Obviously there are benefits for the school but the learners benefits are much bigger from being in schools like this!
As for schools and academics, all schools advertise themselves via their sporting achievements but that never means that sport goes before academics in those schools. Its just that its the best marketing tool any school can have thus the massive focus or obsession on it.
Oh my word. Green and Grass, you guys have got more patience than me. Funny that the College boys who went to Westville in U16 begged to come back to College. They certainly were not made the offers they were for academics.
@Grasshopper: The only school to do an ‘in-house’ investigation of over aged players and the longest case of ‘rolled ankle’ in recorded medical history is just the tip of it.
Westville are far and away the biggest disher-outers of sports bursaries in KZN. Hell I could name 15 kids without even blinking that are in my circle of influence alone. At Glenwood I know 2 – tops.
Then there was the devious way that the Marne issue was handled 2 days before the match.
So when I read a post about the virtuous upstanding Trevor Hall, offenders being properly dealt with, transparency and denial of an active recruitment policy in the same paragraph I have to assume that the is a degree of piss-taking on the go.
@Star, are you joking boet. Westville swept an over aged kid under the carpet so to avoid the same public burning/scrutiny Glenwood got. Westville are no more innocent than the others. Westville’s demographic also helps with the academic results. Asian families focus on academics and a large % of Westville students are Asian from Resevoir Hills and Westville North. Looking at the Glenwood Top 10 kids per form, nearly all are Asian from Chatsworth etc. ALL schools fundamental purpose is academics and headmasters will not let that decline for sport. Sport just helps the promotion and public profile of the school. Look at Westville milking Chad Le Clos’s medals….
@star – Jeez that is hilarious mate. You can’t be serious????
There was an article about Westville in the Mercury with the heading” Focused on academic performance”. Do you honestly think that Trevor Hall will compromise that process or believes that professional sports opportunities are in abundance. The reality is we have an example of DHS(previously passive) and GW(agressive in rugby recruitment) and we have all seen the results.In order to achieve across the board success/results the status of the school has to be maintained and rugby plays an important part in that process.It is also about balance.When one school pushes boundaries other schools follow and the situation escalates out of control( as experienced this year with overage players and the Marne issue).It is there where transparancy is so important and any offenders must be dealt with properly.
To add, College and Westville are the best performing boys schools in the matric exams and Glenwood is improving every year, I think they had 17 boys in 2011 with more than 5 A’s, not too bad. That also included the 1st team lock….
What a laugh coming from a Kearsney supporter. ALL schools including Kearsney recruit sportsman, in fact Kearsney, Hilton, Michaelhouse, DHS and Northwood realised they were behind the curve in sport after Westville, College and Glenwood took things more seriously and more professional a decade ago. In the past 2 to 3 years those schools have been playing catch up with College, Westville and Glenwood and focussing more on sport. Look at Hilton hiring Mcleod Henderson and paying him a massive salary. Horsy mentioned Kearsney purchased virtually the whole KZN Under 13 rugga side for 2012….just saying…..
@ Oldschool- I actually think while your sentiment is correct,you have missed the point.
@oldschool: Probably the best comment since this blog’s inception – thank you for that!
@Gungets Tuft: Good point with regards the importance of the ‘school’ part in eduacating these kids….would be interesting to see the actual stats of how many provincial school players go on to make a meaningful carreer out of rugby…my geuss is under 10% , which begs the question why so much importance placed on rugby and not enough on a balanced education …..the reality is we only have 6 premiurship provincial unions with not much space for new young stock coming in ….so the conversion of juniour contracts to seniour contracts cant be more than 6/7 a year per a union taking in to account existing seniour players ….so you have a scenario of hundreds of players being left out in the cold …..great sport but a kak profesion if you are borderline on the ability list !!!so to conclude….to much emphasis at school level is placed on the sport but with very little upside for the majority of players afterschool besides some great memories and possibly a girlfriend or 2 !! with all the recruiting and scholarships being offered amongst all these schools we are getting to a point where some schools are fielding barbarian type sides so gone on the days of school A taking on school B with their natural stock, its almost school ABC taking on school BDC and the winner is the one with the bigger cheque book and more agressive recruitment process …..and for what ??? bragging rights??? mine is better than yours ?? does a winning rugby team make you a better educator ?? just seems to be getting out of control a bit in my view …..rugby is in our blood and is the only sport that really is a great life lesson , with many attributes mimicking life which teaches boys values , tradition , respect , commitment , team work etc etc ….but to place so much on winning and recruiting and all the side shows , not to healthy im afraid !!!
@beet: Can you just imagine the uproar if the inland schools throw their lot in with the Free State union ….. traditional rivalries swap to Grey Bloem etc.
@Gungets Tuft: Thats if one looks at the process in isolation. But what if it was just part of a knock-on effect and every major union was doing it. For example the next Kriek twins would not stay at College, they would relocate to a school in Pretoria etc.
The Bulls are actively involved in this recruitment/relocation process at the moment. They are not influencing CW selections but a school like Centurion went from being a weak u16 group 2 years back to one of the strongest 1st teams in SA in 2012 not because of late developers. The Bulls placed good players from other regions in the school. And who knows, if push comes to shove and they really want a player, perhaps the assurance of a Craven Week spot will be part of the agreement in future.
Here in KZN we are already seeing the same recruitment thing starting to take shape. Marne. Gideon Koegelenberg, the SA Schools player from Hugenote in Boland was temporarily based in Durban to help the Sharks u19 team for 4 weeks. He has returned home but will now fly to Durban every Thursday if required. The Sharks tried to place a player believed to be the next Frans Steyn in Glenwood earlier this year. He was unsettled and went back home. He is set to return and join the Academy in Jan 2013. If it had worked out this year, who knows Jesse Kriel might not have even made the KZN CW team?
I understand what you and Greenblooded were stating earlier. It makes sense and is acceptable if you wear your Sharks cap, that the Union should attempt to put themselves in the strongest possible position to succeed at senior level. Here’s the problem tho. They oversee all KZN school rugby not just some of it. If they want to hold onto that position, there should be an onus on them to act in the best interests of ALL the schools and should go out of their way to avoid favourtism. Otherwise relinquish the position and let the schools run their own rugby affairs. I can’t see that happening easily. They would lose too much power. Anyway this Sharks vs Schools relationship is interesting. :smile:
@beet: If that happens then all kinds of hell will break in SA Rugby, because the unions will be ignoring the possibility that there are late developers, or that a strength vs strength competition is worth anything. Not going to meet that problem 1/2 way. Can you imagine the uproar if the Sharks academy try to dictate selections at CW. The other unions would schnarf up every player in the province that was not aligned to the Academy. Naaa .. cannae see it happening, but it is a scary prospect. Of course we will also be relying on the other unions letting the Sharks take these 10 hypothetical players.
@Gungets Tuft: It’s hard to be too critical of the Sharks because our u19 and u21 teams are performing reasonably well and young players are being turned into provincial and even international players. At the same time there has to be concerns that the Sharks have lost the lead in the recruitment game because of outdated practices and this will come back to hurt them in a few years time.
From what I understand, the Sharks only give out a handful of contracts to school leavers every year (less than 10), then they make numerous bursaries available to other players. These players receive elite type training with the contracted players just about guaranteed junior CC game time to justify the money spent on them. The other 80-100 yearly Academy intakes are there to help pay the bills and will find it incredibly hard to get selected for a Sharks junior team. The Sharks Academy is a business. Profit is a motive but producing a good product/service goes hand in hand with it.
An interesting viewpoint that I heard regarding the Varsity Cup, is that the Sharks Academy was opposed to Varsity College gaining admission or the University becoming a force as this would create a rival destination for players in KZN and have an effect on their turnover at the end of the day.
@beet: In fact, there is ample evidence that the Sharks are fast asleep. Lots of talented kids leaving this year which the Sharks will buy back once they have made their names. Not saying that there are not lots of talented kids going to the Academy but I wonder how many locals are slipping through the net. I have even heard it said that many of the kids accepted to the academy are making up the numbers (paying the bills) for the chosen few. I know jack about the academy so feel free to tell me that what I have heard is tosh.
Beet – how many of the KZN CW team are staying in KZN??
@Gungets Tuft: I understand your point but lets say hypothetically in 3-4 years time, the Sharks are importing say 10 kids and placing them in Dbn schools. These kids are actively involved in Sharks HP training when not playing rugby for their schools. Come Craven Week trials, all 10 are picked as per guarantees given to them when first recruited and relocated. With the incentive of being able to play Craven Week removed or drastically reduced because you are in school outside the Sharks epicentre, what effect will this have on the mindset of gr.7 students that excel at rugby when it comes to choicing a high school to attend? And what impact will it have on a player that improves his rugby while in a high school outside of Durban.
@GreenBlooded: Personally I think there is enough evidence to suggest that Glenwood is far from a business partner of the Sharks.
Glenwood is an unusual case as far as recruitment game goes because yes it may be the favourite destination for the Sharks and even their placements if given a choice of schools for a few reasons other than logistics – good coaching, play best schools in SA, on avg best chance to finish in SA Top 10 of all KZN schools, nice environment for Afrikaans speaking kids. However it seems like Glenwood has become the furthest thing from a loyal Sharks feeder school these past couple of years. Very few GM talented boys are joining the Sharks Academy after school.
Of the top players this year Carel ,Zee Mkhabela, Michael v Aardt, Nqabi and even Potgieter leaving KZN.
It’s good that the kids and parents are being encouraged to exercise their choices by the school but it also food for thought for the Sharks that there are no guarantees. I’m sure they know this. The Bulls seem to enjoy a better harmonious relationship with their feeders.
@beet: Correct on the age at which the unions recruit – The Kriels were recruited by the Bulls in U16 (the first approach made I think).
I think there is enough depth in player skills for all schools to be happy with what is available and also that kids would rather play 1st team than not, so will move for that opportunity, so all is not lost to the inland teams. There are also a lot of players that realise tha academics is as important – they need to be able to read those contracts – yes?? .. so lets not eliminate the “school” part of school completely. The Sharks can only take on so many kids, the rest need to find homes.
Then there are the late developers – those that suddenly grow in Grade 9 and 10, have already made homes at schools and will not move. Both Dan and Jesse Kriel were approached in their latter years and declined to move. So school loyalty needs to be factored in.
The upshot of all this is that the schools that receive these players – through no sinister practices of their own – are always going to bear the brunt of the understandable frustration of those that don’t. Even though those that don’t would have no problem with the situation if they were benefitting.
Glenwood did not go out and actively recruit Marne. He was brought into KZN by the Sharks and needed to go to school somewhere. Glenwood was an obvious choice due to locality and the close eye of a Sharks Academy coach. Unfortuneatly Glenwood took a lot of bat for this from schools that would have welcomed Marne with open arms. All of the schools – not just the obvious one.
@Gungets Tuft: This is a fairly new process so we will have to see how it pans out.
Understandably the Sharks import a lot more post-school talent than they recruit locally. So they have not in the past been able to monitor many imported kids as closely as is being mentioned above, while still at school.
But we can all accept that times are rapidly changing. Things have moved to towards securing kids services while still at school, sometimes as young as Gr.10. If these kids from out of province schools attend schools that are not up to scratch, the Sharks might presumably consider reallocating them to a Dbn school. If this professional process goes one step further than that and the Sharks insist on all their signed school recruits being right under their noses in Durban, then I guess that would be tickets for the likes of College, Hilton and MHS in terms of holding onto talented kids who want a future at the Sharks.
The club rugby scene in Durban is enough to show the Sharks that looking after all creates a far healthier and more stable environment, than caring for just 1 or 2.
@beet: Agree with Greenblooded on this. Unless the Sharks do a “Bulls” and recruit 5 kids in a single position, then they will look to have them close to Kings Park, and under the coaching of someone connected to the Academy so they can get regular feedback. If a kid is on the fringes then it is highly likely they would choose a school with a coach close to the Academy as well, it catches their eye on a weekly basis rather than the occasions that their home schools play against … let’s just say it .. Glenwood and (now) Northwood.
Unless – and you referred to it – there are independent scouts out there who are getting the info back to Kings Park. I would like to be wrong, but ….
@GreenBlooded: I see. Sorry I thought you were talking about development players.
This then goes back to my original poser that KZNRU TIP will be the vehicle used to overcome another potential Marne issue.
Professionalism in school sport brings with it many new challenges but I don’t think the Sharks should excluded themselves from adapting to change. I think its in their best interests to keep everyone under their “umbrella” happy rather than using logistics as a reason to exclude some.
@beet: I’m talking about boys who are brought in from other provinces by the Sharks – like Marne was. The Sharks Academy is based at Kings Park Stadium and it would make sense to have their boys nearby for meetings, training, video sessions, lectures etc etc.
@GreenBlooded: This Durban only school based allocation has to be under the assumption that the boys come from places close to Durban surely otherwise it’s just as feasible to sent them to College as boarders as any other school. Essentially the powers that be just want these kids to receive good coaching and play in the kind of competitive environment that will see their skills improve.
@GreenBlooded: That was just a statement of fact, not a complaint – it was just that the statement from ZNCoach made it sound as if the boys will be “farmed out” but that is simply not practical. The other schools just need to be that much better to avoid losing kids who (either themselves or their parents) perceive that their chances of representation are better if they are at a target school. The College target market has been eroded for years now. The traditional farming community has shrunk drastically, the areas of Ixopo, Creighton, Underberg, Bergville have a smaller farming community now. Those farmers that remain are wealthier and look to the private schools. Maritzburg is a shadow of the town it used to be as well. Not complaints, just a statement of fact. To keep the quality College has to work very hard, something that a superb staff complement do very well.
There is nothing to be done about the TIP deployment in Durban, it makes sense until PMB has a Currie Cup and S15 franchise .. :-))
House were the top school in KZN last year so it is not impossible.
@Gungets Tuft: I think you’ve nailed it – the Durban based schools with links to the Sharks academy will benefit – Glenwood and Northwood in particular but don’t discount DHS, Westville and possibly George Campbell for the technically oriented boys. There is nothing sinister here – it is a function of Geography and economics. Maritzburg College is simply too far away – and I doubt they would say a polite “no thanks” to potential stars if they weren’t. The privates are no viable due to cost.
So what do we do here?
1. Stop the KZNRU TIP. Can’t do that.
2. Tell the boys they can’t play school rugby. Can’t really do that either.
3. Dish the players out one by one to the major schools listed above? Probably gonna have freedom of choice issues with that one.
Understandable the situation is not fair and some schools will benefit – these boys that come into the system need to go to school somewhere. Lots of people poking holes in the agreement but I don’t see anyone offering a solution.
A step in the right direction but still with a few loop holes. How does one monitor this?
Exceptions to this would be if the family had relocated, thereby making his move to the school legitimate or if the player had come through the KZNRU Talent Identification Programme.
Will the Ombudsman/Auditor ask the family for utility bills at the new address? There are issues of freedom of choice and right to privacy etc here.
I would like to see other provinces do the same and this becomes the standard across the country. With regards to Easter Tournaments, then KZN schools will either have to ask the out of KZN schools to comply or to just accept it. Dale College kids ages on the brochure means nothing, so was Siyabonga Tom’s. Tom was from the EC area, so maybe these standards are required there even more to clean up things..
@beet: Hiltons player is only able to play because he repeated Gr10 (as far as I know). He left Durban after finishing Gr10 but has repeated. Far be it from me to be cynical about it ……
From my side, I think if they arrive in Gr11 (obviously at the start of the year or once again – it will be seen as manipulating the agreement) that is fine – just like Marne did (except for his age, and I suppose he did arrive quite close to the end of the year). The school needs to deal with the issues of how that will demotivate the kids that have been there since Gr8.
I think the Talent Identification clause is going to screw the pooch. Watch that little escape clause being trotted out.
@ZnCoach: Thanks. I learn something everyday.
I wonder if the KZNRU TIP often places u19 players in new schools? And will such players only come from previously disadvantaged backgrounds?
@ZnCoach: My view is that the list of schools that will benefit from the Talent Identification is very short, probably just 3 – Glenwood, with DHS and Northwood a distant second. Northwood probably rushing up the list with De bruin on the coaching staff there now. Private schools benefit – I doubt it. The Union will not have the money, nor would they want to transport boys from 45 – 130kms away once they hit the older age groups.
@beet,i do have my doubts about the factual truth of the ages,but my problem lies with them coming in at that late stage of their schooling,for no other reason than to bolster the first team,and worst of all at the expense of a kid that has been at that school from grade 1,i feel your more classy schools need to apply more pressure to the less ethical schools to clean up,or they refuse to play them,Eastern Cape schools have big honesty problems when it comes to over age kids playing, especially in junior schools
@Beet, the KZNRU Talent Identification program is the program that is used for previously disadvantaged players to showcase themselves against the other sub unions within KZN,this program has provided many a good player to the formerModel C schools as well as private schools.
I don’t think it is a processes whereby the Sharkscan just place players where they feel like.
The KZNRU use the local school coaches as there selectors during the talent ID tournament
I could be wrong but that’s my taking on this
To me by far the most interesting point is the one that makes an exception for an u19 player who is presumably brought into the province via the “KZNRU Talent Identification Programme”.
What is the KZNRU Talent Indentification Programme?
Who are the talent scouts?
What school/s are they affiliated to?
Which headmasters pushed for this amendment?
This amendment obviously means that Hilton’s player is clear to play in 2013. This is a relief. He is both talented and a 100% homegrown player. So I assume this amendment if I’m reading it correctly works out well for Hilton but it does not necessarily mean that Hilton were the ones who pushed for the change. The Sharks were unhappy with what happened to poor Marne. Are there perhaps plans to recruit more u19 players from other provinces in future? Did the Sharks use certain schools’ heads to influence this change?
@QC86: Maritzburg College has invited Dale to attend their 150th birthday Easter Rugby Festival. College are one of the schools that want the system to be clean but I don’t know what they can to other than ask a non-KZN visitor to comply with Boksmart???
In 2 years at KERF Dale’s player ages were displayed in the official brochure.
will KZN schools honour a fixture against a school like Dale, at Kearsney, for instance, that have signed 6 u19 Zim boys for 2013,under the bona fide student agreement?
The final paragraph is by far the most important admission to come out of the meeting.