We’re hearing this term more and more often but how many of you out there have actually decided whether or not you like the idea of a school rugby Super League or had a good think about which schools should be involved in an elite schools league and what the format should be.
There are obvious challenges : logistics and with it costs. However for the purpose of focusing on the league itself, let’s assume big sponsors buy into the idea and a TV rights deal gets thrown in as well, making travelling around the country every other weekend a possibility.
Here are a few main questions:
- Which schools should qualify for the Super League?
- What should the format be? This can be broken down further into several other questions.
- Should it be on a home and away basis?
- Should a playoff be incorporated into the league?
- Should there be a promotion / relegation playoff at the end of the season?
- Within a chosen school itself, which teams should participate – only the A-teams or specific age group teams eg. 20 maximum consisting of 4 x u14, 4 x u15, 4 x u16 and 8 x open or all the teams a school fields and can find opponents for?
- Only because this is so often a consideration in professional circles, how should the revenue generated by split between the schools? Equally or on some other basis.
- Do you support this Super League concept?
- Finally what will the impact of a super league which only caters for a handful of schools be on schoolboy rugby as we know it in general?
- Will we see a migration of all the best school players from around the country to the Super League, thereby concentrating rugby power at these SL schools and weakening all other schools?
- Or will other school be unaffected by a Super League?
If there are other valid questions to be considered, list them so they can be added above.
@GreenBlooded: Then he really needs to focus on his studies. No rugby for him.
@GreenBlooded: Then he is not allowed to play. I would go so far as to say that if you have repeated a high school year and are U19 in matric then you can’t play. But even saying that you sort of have to amend that to “repeat a year, full stop”. If safety is the concern, then it doesn’t matter when the kids “got too old”, if he’s dangerous due to maturity, then it doesn’t matter when it happened. There might be the odd innocent victim, but it’s not about fair, it’s about safe. Repeating matric, and U19, hello club rugby. In fact, perhaps it is a case of Sharks Academy if he is considered good enough, write his matric again via Varsity College or a finishing school somewhere. If he’s failed matric, fine, stay and concentrate on academics, just as he should have first time around. No time for sport…
@Gungets Tuft: Wright excuse…..
What happens if a kid elects to repeat a grade?
@Grasshopper: Some of those ” big headed jocks” are about 3 weeks older than the oldest of the U18’s in the squad. College had 2 this year, both December boys, so there’s a little middle ground here. The HMA covers this, if you are U19 and have repeated a year you may not play KZN derbies. You have to have the Wright excuse to get past that rule. But thinking about it, that might apply to kids changing schools in Grade 11 or later. Need to go about that in the Wr … Eeisch … correct way.
@Roger: Andre T’s neck of the woods……
@Roger: come on Roger, don’t exaggerate. They eliminated the odd person occasionally, but otherwise your regular West Rand boykie. I’m sure that a few here, will know them . If you look at the clubs around the country these days, they are about par. And no matter which team played wits, it was war. Who was the common denominator?
@Roger: Just read up on it.WOW!
Talk about a mafia
@Playa: they were very scary individuals – google David Webster / CCB / etc.
Roodepoort were the top club in the Lions region in those days – along with RAU – when WITS played them it was the Boer War all over again!
@Roger: “Slang van Zyl”….goodness me, the name alone is scary enough.
ah yes – good old Roodepoort rugby club. Remember the days when half the CCB played for them. Calla Botha, Calla Barnard, Slang van Zyl…….the opposition were too terrified to score more than them – even if they could
@Roger: Like I said – not unusual for News24 to publish misleading headlines. It was an U18 club match between Germiston and Roodepoort – not exactly the most refined areas of the big smoke – and had nothing to do with KES or any other school. Typical News24 reporting.
@GreenBlooded: also love the statement that “fights at schoolboy rugby matches are regular occurrences”. In all my years of watching school boy rugby I can count on one hand the amount of punch-ups I have seen. I will freely admit that I don’t venture to many out of town matches and my experience of school boy rugger is limited mainly to KES and their opposition and the odd festival but “a regular occurrence” – surely that is pulling the p#ss?
@GreenBlooded: must have been a club game – KES season ended a month ago. They also mention the Lions will hold a disciplinary hearing. If true, hope the book is thrown at the father. I’m sure the full story will emerge – follow Theo Garrun on Twitter.
I remember an incident at KES long ago when an elder brother of a KES player smacked an opposition player for stamping on his brother. KES banned him from the school for five years……
@Roger: This is News24 we are talking about so I do have to wonder about a few things. Did the father beat the kid up or did he get beaten up during the fight which caused the game to be called? Either way – if the father even abused the kid verbally he needs to be taken to task. Adults cannot abuse schoolboys in any way – verbally or otherwise. A few years ago I heard a father threaten an opposition player on the sideline “Hey lighty – I’ll F… you up”. I stopped the game immediately and had him removed by the host school. It’s just not on.
@Playa: Craven Week is Under 18, surely the schools policy should be Under18 too. What are the 19 year olds doing there, just getting big heads smashing kids and getting the local girls school after them. Let them go play Under21 and be little fish in a big pond and not the big hero jock.
@Roger: Eish shocking! I know what this poor kid is going through, I myself was attacked in a Durban nightclub after a rugby match in 2000, both sides of my face had to be reconstructed. Le Fort 2 & 3 fractures with a broken jaw and orbital….it’s not fun. Let’s just say I lost 30kg in 3 months having my jaw wired shut. This dad needs to be locked up or beaten himself, although better to go the legal route……karma is a funny thing…
@GreenBlooded: check this out
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Dad-allegedly-attacks-boy-at-rugby-match-20140827
horrible
@Playa: What has happened to Oom Tom? Heard he is playing club rugby in the Eastern Cape? Must be a bit more difficult for him now that he’s playing with men his own age and not with kids.
We had a player banned for life here in KZN this season for head-butting a referee (not me :mrgreen:) in a moment of madness. Surely a subterfuge like that played out over many years should at least carry the same sanction as a player who reacted in the heat of the moment?
@Cappie:
@Grasshopper: I won’t go back to my point re I being unrealistic for small town schools. Just as an example (Paarl, Wellington, Stellenbosch – though one can argue that they can ply their trade at Maties, George, Grahamstown, Uitenhage, PE, Bloem, East London, KWT, QTN to name but a few).
The ultimate goal for the creation of Boksmart was to address just that. Remove 19 year olds, you’ll have to remove Boksmart I guess. It has been the norm now that parents send their kids bon later in the year to school in the year they turn 8 instead of 7. Who gets excluded when limiting the number to just 2? As for those who fail, what message do you send? Sure, if half the team is under 19, eyebrows must be raised, I agree.
@Cappie: Yep, all 63kg of hulking muscle…Meneer Tom.
@Playa: Haha, hy was omtrent 23 toe hy teen Affies gespeel het. Hulle het gesing: “Waar’s Oom Tom?” die jaar daarna.
In terms of age, I still stand by that the boys should be Under 18. I remember Noord Kaap 2 years ago having 8 or so Under19 boys, they were huge. Maybe allow a max of 2 Under19 boys to satisfy those very few who are kept back for valid reasons. Those who have failed should go play with the men in clubs…
@Cappie: Hy speel klub rugby vir Spring Rose in PE. Hy ‘n verskillend naam gebruik
@Grasshopper: Who’s to say that no one in the KZN Union knew about it? Well, let me not start that debate, I may just put myself on the spot.
As for recruitment by KZN schools in the EC being a product of the quota system, I beg to differ. Unless you’re telling me that the schools are mandated by the union to recruit players of colour, because as far as I know there is no school that has a quota policy.
I know well that Zulus aren’t as big on rugby as Xhosas, that’s a fact. But I have seen a number of KZN schools’ 1st XV team sheets this year, and from observation, there have been fewer Xhosa names than Zulu names. Maybe Beet can do the exercise to confirm if he finds the time. What helps in this case is that generally, rugby is a 2nd term sport while soccer is a 3rd term sport and there isn’t a clash as a result. In my view, those boys, plus the many from the Northern Transkei up who choose to go to KZN schools are enough numbers to choose from without having to recruit from further down to satisfy PDI conditions. Then again, they don’t make those as good as those from the Border down
@Playa: Wat het van Oom Tom geword?
@Playa: That seems a bit sinister to me, if the EC/Border Unions had any knowledge of this they should have informed the KZN Union about it. In terms of ‘shopping’ down there, it really should only be for township boys without a decent high school that can be helped out of poverty to get an education and the best opportunities possible. This is how it was when I was at Glenwood. Lucky Hadebe with surrogate mom Helen Lucre arrived at Glenwood’s BE and from there began the set the school athletics world alight with his amazing running. I think he still holds about 5 medium to long distance records at the school. I certainly would not support ‘poaching’ boys from Queens, Selborne, Dale, Grey PE etc. They are already in good hands. The issue up here with a PDI requirement is that rugby is not really a sport the Zulu’s play, unless they play it early in their schooling. So a few schools, including Glenwood take in Xhosa boys, so to give them a great chance of making the KXZN team…..take away PDI and poaching in the EC would stop…
@Grasshopper: Totally different reason then. Why? Because neither of those two cheats you mention, lied to be older than the grade they were actually in. Limiting age to 18 will not solve the age cheat problem, the cheats will just play within the age restriction.
P.S. While on Payi and Tom – ever wondered why the big EC rugby playing schools have never had these age scandals? They verify, that’s why. Payi and Tom were not invisible to the big EC schools, they knew something GW and DHS didn’t know, I can promise you that. That’s why we now find KZN schools’ motor cars parking our junior schools…lesson learnt, now grab them where they SURELY have been verified. Down my way, we know who to avoid, while the greed from up your way, will lead you into that trap again and again.
@Playa: get your point. However, down your way some or most of the kids don’t even have birth certificates so who knows what their ages really are. The two plus age cheats in KZN were from those rural areas…
@Grasshopper: I see the point of some people wanting school sports to be under 18, with under 19s playing club, but some areas do not have club structures at that level, this is especially the case in small town schools. The don’t have a lot of 19 year old out of school rugby players, and the number of those in school would not even make up a rugby team. It’s a good idea which comes from a good place, but in my view unrealistic in the broader scheme of things.
Sorry, one more thing. Age checks must be completed on enrollment at each school. They could even introduce a kitemark or seal where schools that abide by these rules are SARU accredited….we want trust and transparency not underhanded tactics and hearsay. Trust builds relationships…
Don’t like it at all, logistics and costs too high. Also, would scrap nearly all local derbies. We should be stepping back a little from professionalism and not towards it. We need to sort club rugby first and also just ensure recruitment after grade 8 is heavily monitored with strict rules that applies across the country. School rugby should be Under18 only and kids playing 1st team must have been at the school at least 3 years. Individual cases where the boy has been a shorter while must be agreed by the Headmasters Council in each province at least 3 months before rugby season, so in Jan. Random testing sponsored by a pharmaceutical company should be introduced at all schools for A team kids, that means off season too. We need to clean things up not make it worse…
I wouldn’t even look up the scores if the game went in this direction. I’d simply have a couple more after golf every Saturday!
@Cappie: Ahhahhhaaa .. have sent it on to College.
Playa
Funny you should say that – I too have had enough of the Super 15
only watch a few games
As far as the Schools Super league goes – I’m also against it
The reality is that most of the so called “super schools”” are the very ones who would oppose this suggestion the strongest.
Hierdie is ‘n “super league”
http://www.schoolsportsnews.co.za/other-sports/headmaster-ice-bucket-challenge/
Not even a chance of it happening. The expense would be prohibitive and it would destroy mass participation in rugby that all schools are trying to achieve.
1. Cost.
2. Exclusivity. What happens to the traditional schools (St Charles scine 1882, House 1901, Hilton 1902, DHS 1910).
3. An even more exclusive “club” for the First 15 at the school. By the nature of things they already enjoy elevated status (but so do the first hocket – at College at least, cricket and other sports). A lot more matches played away where the rest of the school do NOT take part. It’s going to divide the school – can’t like that.
4. An even more cut-throat approach to professionalism that will just drip down to the 2nd team level – other schools will eye the best of the 2nd teams for their attempts to get into the Super League
The publishing of rankings (some OK’ish, some downright twaddle) have lead to this. The concept of now getting into a Super League derived from the need to compete against schools that have never been on the fixture list, at the cost of traditional rivals – won’t have my support.
Bring back the clubs – drop Term 3 fixtures – keep the tradition in Term 2, and let the Franchise scouts go and find their players in the clubs. The 2% of schoolboys that might one day make a career of this will be able to make their mark there. The added bonus is that a revitalised club system will provide a way for the Marcel Coetsee’s (the Bok Marcel) to get exposure outside of their small school and reduce the incentive to move, as well as the incentive to poach/recruit/”attract”.
Rugby is only one sport when the schools play each other.
Stem glad nie saam met so ‘n stelsel nie!!!
I’m worried that certain schools will ‘withdraw’ after the fixtures have been arranged
It’s heading that way but on an informal basis. Remember that not so long ago Martizburg College used to play Linpark, Alex, Carter, Howick and Escourt and so on and then had to drop these schools as they became too strong for them. These schools still play rugby but in a different tier. The same is happening now and will be the norm of SA schoolboy rugby. I just think we mustn’t fear these changes and loss of historic encounters it happened before and it is inevitable.
Can’t help but to agree hole heartedly with the gents above. An exclusive Super leaugue will take the base of rugby supporters, who won’t be able to play in such a leaugue since it would be reserved for 1 st or A team players, away from rugby. Rugby is in competition with a lot of other sporting codes. The kids not playing in the “super leaugue” will find a home at other sporting codes.
I wholeheartedly disagree with this concept. Never mind just the onerous logistics as outlined by Cappie, but these same logistics would jeopardise traditional fixtures and festivals. My old school hat aside, but I am already sick of the Super 15. This would just be a schoolboy version o it. Same teams, week-in week out, variety would be out the door, and the slave trade of schoolboys will make a FIFA transfer window look like a spaza shop located on the N2 between Grahamstown and King William’s Town.
The idea to involve as many teams as possible (30) is thought-provoking to the boy schools. In the Noordvaal there are four (Affies, PBH, KES and Jeppe), in KZN there are two (Maritzburg and Glenwood), you have Grey College in the central, Grey in PE and in the Cape (Paul Roos and Paarl Boys High) and overall a few others, who does not come to mind immediately.
Many of these schools are already in derbies against each other. Travelling between Cape Town and Bloemfontein is already a big treaty. To have second and third outings between Cape Town and Johannesburg and/or Pretoria would be imaginary.
All of the above mentioned schools have one common focus, and that is to involve as many learners in as many categories as possible in a sporting weekend.
@PRondersteuner: Agree, the professionalism in our schoolboy rugby is a bit too much as it is. This Super League would be a very bad idea
Another question would be: What are the objectives of such a Super League that cannot be met within existing structures (competitions, friendlies, tournaments, Craven Week, etc.). Revenue could be one, but will money not merely make the big stronger and the small weaker. Objectives achieved within current structures include; healthy children (parents?), sportsmanship, values, esprit de corps, development of skills and talent, identification of talent for further growth, friendships,etc. What does it really matter if Grey College does not play against Garsfontein in a particular year? The Noordvaal Beeld tournament system of classifying school strength on the basis of school size is under pressure because smaller schools are attracting talent and producing good results (Helpmekaar). This means they would develop more when competing against larger, stronger schools. We must understand and trade all benefits and negatives when considering such a change.
I don’t think this is a good idea. It will take schoolrugby to a whole new very dangerous professional level. There are enough festivals to compare the schools.