Where the 2017 schoolboy rugby players will be in 2018

Please help to complete or grow the list if you can.

1 1 Wiehan Bezuidenhout Affies Bulls
2 2 Johan van Zyl Affies Bulls
3 3 James Combrinck Affies Bulls
4 4 Michael de Waal Affies Bulls
5 5 Carl Els Affies Bulls
6 7 Jaco Labuschagne Affies Bulls
7 8 Philip Potgieter Affies Bulls
8 9 Johan Mulder Affies Bulls
9 13 Marnus Potgieter Affies Bulls
10 15 Charles Goedhals Affies Bulls
11 12 Zach Briel Affies Bulls
12 10 JP Viviers Augsburg Bulls
13 5 Xavier Haupt Bellville Bulls
14 12 Dan Aspeling Bellville WP-UWC
15 9 Ross Goodwin Bishops Worcester (Eng)
16 2 Tiaan Droskie Boland Landbou Lions
17 4 Marko van Niekerk Boland Landbou Bulls
18 5 Herman Le Roux Boland Landbou WP
19 13 Duran Nasson Boland Landbou WP
20 15 Duren Hoffman Boland Landbou WP
21 8 Jaen-Louis de Lange Brackenfell WP
22 8 Sean van Binsbergen Brackenfell
23 10 Quan Eymann Brackenfell WP
24 3 Le-Klue Stokes Brandwag WP
25 4 Thomas Westermeyer Clifton Bulls
26 11 Siphamandla Matsinya Dale
27 15 Aphelele Fassi Dale Sharks
28 9 Sachin Toring Daniel Pienaar
29 1 Sean Barnes DHS Sharks
30 8 Pepsi Buthelezi DHS Sharks
31 9 Sanele Nohamba DHS Sharks
32 15 Cham Zondeki DHS Sharks
33 1 WS Coetzer Diamantveld Free State
34 5 Hendrik Smit Diamantveld Lions
35 8 Renier van Zyl Diamantveld Free State
36 10 Charles Williams Diamantveld Free State
37 13 De-An Ackerman Diamantveld France via Pta
38 15 Ashwill Botha Diamantveld Free State – CUT
39 9 Romeo Eksteen Drostdy Bulls
40 11 Sebastian Jobb Duineveld Bulls
41 4 Dylan Mare Dundee Bulls
42 4 Domenique McArthur EG Jansen Bulls
43 5 Reinhardt Venter EG Jansen Bulls
44 6 Jonathan o’Neil EG Jansen Bulls
45 8 Carsten Koekemoer EG Jansen Bulls
46 10 Ruben Beytell EG Jansen Bulls
47 15 Franco van Eeden EG Jansen Bulls
48 8 Alfred Holder Ferrum Bulls
49 1 Breilen Brandt Garsfontein Bulls
50 2 Steven Billing Garsfontein Bulls
51 3 Keanu Prinsloo Garsfontein Bulls
52 3 CJ Steinhobel Garsfontein Bulls
53 6 Ruben Roodt Garsfontein
54 12 Wesley Thompson Garsfontein
55 3 Brandon Schwulst Glenwood Sharks – V.College
56 4 JJ vd Mescht Glenwood Sharks
57 6 Dylan Kruger Glenwood Bulls
58 7 Edward Laubscher Glenwood Bulls
59 13 Conan le Fleur Glenwood Back at Sch
60 14 Morne v Rensburg Glenwood
61 14 Lorenzo Cloete Goudveld Bulls
62 1 Naude Naude Grey College
63 2 Ruhann Greyling Grey College WP
64 7 Marcel Theunissen Grey College WP-Maties
65 8 Arno Nieuwoudt Grey College Leo-NWU
66 10 Christopher Schreuder Grey College WP
67 11 Janco van Heyningen Grey College Lions
68 12 Rikus Pretorius Grey College WP
69 14 Henk Cilliers Grey College Sharks
70 15 David Kriel Grey College WP
71 2 Ruan Jonker Grey HS
72 6 Bevan Prinsloo Grey HS WP
73 12 Waqar Solaan Grey HS
74 15 Sihle Njezula Grey HS
75 2 Dameon Venter Helpmekaar Lions
76 3 Ignis Meyer Helpmekaar Leo-NWU
77 6 Mark Snyman Helpmekaar Lions
78 7 Liam van den Berg Helpmekaar WP-Maties
79 8 Benjamin Clarke Helpmekaar WP-Maties
80 8 Lehan du Toit Helpmekaar Lions-Wits
81 9 Ruhan Viviers Helpmekaar Bulls
82 13 Jeremy Randall Helpmekaar Lions-Wits
83 14 David Cary Helpmekaar Lions
84 10 Lloyd April Hermanus Bulls
85 4 George Putter Hilton
86 9 Graham Curtis Hilton
87 1 MJ Strauss HJS Paarl BH WP
88 2 Wilhelm Barnard HJS Paarl BH Free State
89 3 Joshua Du Preez HJS Paarl BH WP
90 4 Armandt Conradie HJS Paarl BH USA
91 5 Pierre Pretorius HJS Paarl BH WP-Maties
92 6 Vian Fourie HJS Paarl BH Sharks
93 7 Cornel Kotze HJS Paarl BH WP-Maties
94 8 Franke Horn HJS Paarl BH WP
95 9 Eric Myburgh HJS Paarl BH Free State
96 10 Boeta Chamberlain HJS Paarl BH Sharks
97 12 Luka Ferreira HJS Paarl BH Free State
98 12 Le Roux Malan HJS Paarl BH Sharks
99 13 Divan Enslin HJS Paarl BH WP
100 14 Stuart Tait HJS Paarl BH
101 15 Thakir Abrahams HJS Paarl BH Sharks
102 15 Abner van Reenen HJS Paarl BH WP
103 14 Prince Nkabinde Hoogenhout
104 6 Henco van Heerden HTS Middelburg Bulls
105 15 Jarred du Plessis Hudson Park
106 6 Michael Goodall Hugenote Lions
107 5 Keagan Lichtfield Jeppe
108 11 Mangaliso Ntimba Jeppe Bulls
109 2 Dylan Richardson Kearsney Sharks
110 7 Ross Taylor Kearsney
111 2 Leander du Plessis Kempton Park
112 3 Keegan Glade KES Lions
113 7 Ziyanda Msipha KES
114 8 Travis Gordon KES Lions
115 11 Tyler Haywards KES
116 15 Kennedy Mpeku KES Lions
117 12 Yanga Hlalu KES Lions
118 3 Thembi Mangwana Kingswood
119 10 Tristan Oosthuizen Leopards
120 10 Lohann Jahns Lichtenburg Bulls
121 15 Bertru Jones Lichtenburg
122 2 Fez Mbatha Maritzburg College Sharks
123 3 Marno Beyl Marlow Bulls
124 12 Vivian Kapp Marlow
125 15 Navaldo Fleurs Marlow
126 Gerrit du Preez Marlow Bulls
127 1 Lukas Klopper Menlopark Bulls
128 3 Barry Viljoen Menlopark Bulls
129 5 Justin Sadie Menlopark Bulls
130 3 Rocky Knox Michaelhouse WP
131 5 Ollie Calvert-Evers Michaelhouse UK university
132 3 Eben Brand Monument
133 5 Christopher Havenga Monument Lions
134 6 Larko Lindes Monument
135 7 PJ Jacobs Monument Bulls
136 7 Cristen van Niekerk Monument Lions
137 9 Tinus Combrinck Monument Lions
138 10 Jonathan Viljoen Monument Lions
139 11 Brendon Buitendag Monument Lions-UJ
140 12 Luke Rossouw Monument Bulls
141 15 Dandre Prinsloo Monument Bulls
142 3 Kudzai Dube Muir Bulls
143 12 Sicelo Tole Muir
144 2 SP Muller Nelspruit
145 5 Marius Slabbert Nelspruit
146 7 Renier Troskie Nelspruit
147 10 Stephan vd Bank Nelspruit Bulls
148 2 Rory Leijdekkers Noord Kaap
149 1 Conrad van Aswegen Noord-Kaap
150 5 Gideon van Niekerk Noord-Kaap
151 8 Edrich Brand Noord-Kaap Back at sch
152 15 Cameron Hufke Noord-Kaap
153 1 Dian Bleuler Oakdale WP
154 5 Daniel vd Berg Oakdale
155 9 Lian du Toit Oakdale Bulls
156 11 Joaquin Taute Oakdale Back at sch
 157 12 Jay-Cee Nel Oakdale Bulls
158 12 Edmund Ludick Oos-Moot Lions
159 2 Stephan Leonard Outeniqua Bulls
160 5 Louis Meiring Outeniqua Bulls
161 8 Andreas Breytenbach Outeniqua
162 1 Hugo Pienaar Paarl Gim WP
163 1 Adriaan Staples Paarl Gim Sharks
164 2 Chris Rossouw Paarl Gim WP-Maties
165 3 Francois Staples Paarl Gim WPRA
166 4 Adriaan Ludick Paarl Gim Bulls
167 8 Henco Martins Paarl Gim WP
168 12 Ruben Scholtz Paarl Gim
169 15 Muller du Plessis Paarl Gim Sharks
170 4 Ian Kitwanga Parklands WP
171 1 Nkosi Masuku Parktown Lions
172 2 Darnell Osuagwu Parktown
173 1 Cameron Dawson Paul Roos
174 1 Alexander Mbete Paul Roos WP
175 3 Tristan Leitch Paul Roos WP
176 5 Breyten Maritz Paul Roos
177 7 Phillip van Dyk Paul Roos Sharks
178 9 Gerado Jaars Paul Roos WP
179 12 Rufus Dercksen Paul Roos WP-Maties
180 15 Colia Louis Paul Roos
181 10 Rodwell Baadjies Pearson EP
182 5 Sibusiso Madonsela Piet Retief
183 10 Hanru van Rooyen Potch Gim
184 13 Mitchelle vd Merwe Potch Gim
185 8 Chris du Toit Pretoria BH
186 5 Aaron Brody Queen’s
187 9 Robert Davis Rondebosch Scotland???
188 12 DJ Falconer Rondebosch Sharks???
189 6 Sujai Ikemefuna SACS WP
190 9 Vusile Dlepu SACS WP
191 13 Jordy Hop SACS
192 13 Oliver Schuurmans SACS
193 2 Mark Venter Selborne WPRA
194 5 Stephan Nieuwenhuizen Selborne
195 6 Adam Mountford Selborne Sharks
196 7 Andre Rust Selborne
197 9 Mitchell Connellan Selborne
198 10 David Coetzer Selborne WP
199 15 Jason Raubenheimer Selborne
200 3 Cameron Moodie Selborne WPRA
201 5 Orateng Koikanyang St Alban’s Bulls
202 10 Cornell Korff St Alban’s Bulls
203 2 Dean Jenkins St Andrew’s
204 3 Callum Dugmore St Andrew’s
205 9 Oscar Evans St Andrew’s
206 10 Murray Koster St Andrew’s Sharks
207 13 Matt More St Andrew’s
208 10 Kieran Houlston St John’s Sharks
209 13 Tshepo Chipu St John’s
210 3 Asenathi Ntlabakanye St Stithians Lions
211 8 Tawanda Mutuma St Stithians
212 3 Nicko Laubscher Stellenberg Bulls
213 4 Andre Hanekom Stellenberg Free State
214 5 Janko Swanepoel Stellenberg Bulls
215 9 Jacques van Biljon Stellenberg Free State
216 14 Angelo Davids Stellenberg WP
217 2 Andre Nel Stirling
218 9 Christian Humphries Trinity
219 9 Thandile Hoyi Tygerberg WP
220 1 Francois Klopper Voortrekker (Beth) Sharks
221 2 Ruben Veldsman Waterkloof
222 3 Gerrit Visser Waterkloof Lions
223 5 Wihan de Beer Waterkloof Lions
224 5 Ruben Kotze Waterkloof Lions
225 6 Gustav de Jager Waterkloof
226 8 Ewan Visser Waterkloof Lions
227 9 Giovanne Snyman Waterkloof Lions
228 10 Ulrich Maritz Waterkloof Lions
229 13 Jandre Pretorius Waterkloof
230 2 Dillon Minaar Welkom Gim
231 8 Ulrich Stander Welkom Gim
232 15 Andrew Kota Welkom Gim Back at sch
233 10 Denzo Bruwer Windhoek Gim Bulls
234 3 JW Meades Witteberg Lions


  1. Don’t think Liam vd Berg going to the Bulls.
    Lehan du Toit and Jerremy Randall going to Wits(Lions).
    Not on list but Triston Oosthiuzen Leopards. Dont know about Ben and Ignis. Perhaps BB know?

  2. @Grizzly: Bulls list just more complete. No union can only have 20 players for a season. Impossible! Or they Bullshit themselves.

  3. @Rainier: There is alot of confusion at/with the Bulls. They ‘only’ contract about 28 players but there are about 60 players currently at the Bulls training camp. Do not know what will happen after the camp?

  4. Andre Hanekom going to Cheetahs.

    Scrummy of Tygerberg also going to WP.

    Really wish WP got Chamberlain. Sharks got some nice signings.

  5. @Hooit: If true,I think its a huge gamble for the other 32 players.BB corect,when will the Bulls realise its about quality and not qantity.If true about WT,hats off to the Lions.

  6. Every union has a slightly different recruitment strategy.

    The Bulls take in a big group but offload a few even before the u19 CC starts.
    WPRI takes in about 40 and it seems like the Lions liked to do same.
    Free State and Leopards work closely with their local universities to share the financial commitment.
    In the old days the Sharks would carefully select 10-12 players for contracts and allow their Academy to provide the balance for u19 CC. Not sure they have got that quite right in recent times.

  7. @beet: Yes I do not know how you can only select 10-12 players and then hope to get good results. This can be seen in the last result Lions vs Sharks U/19. Lions gave them a proper hiding.
    Then the Lions for the last I think three matched had to use or used some boys that are still in school!!?? So are there way of doing things correct? This is before final exams?
    Again the question should then be asked if they did contracted enough players?
    @Kattes @Mike and those guys should be able to give a better answer.
    What is the correct amount of player?
    Two 23 man teams?? :?:

  8. @Grizzly: I do not believe that @Hooit is correct in his assumption. The period of contract might be different for each player.

  9. The junior structures in SA need to be improved to afford the better players a chance to perform at the top level and to ensure that each weekend the matches are true strength vs strength contests. Without the right sort of Unions budget it’s difficult maybe even impossible to achieve this and we are seeing it in the CC u19 results this year where there are 4 decent teams and 3 weak teams. There needs to be 7 decent strength teams and SA has enough players to achieve this, just not the mechanism or the finances.

    When Dawie Theron was the SA u20 coach he would rely on opinions of the u19 provincial coaches. U19 Coaches didn’t were not charged with sending him assessments on their own players but rather on their opponents players after each game. In that way Theron was able to get a sort of neutral assessment of players for the benefit of inviting them to the training camps.

    I’m not sure if Chean Roux makes use of this same concept but I suspect he would as it seems like a good idea.

    For players at unions where they are overstocked it also means that by far the most important thing an u19 player can be doing during the season is playing in matches. If a boy is good enough to play it’s pointless being a tackle bag carrier in the week and spectator on weekends. All that happens it that a player at EP, the Sharks or Leopards might not be in a winning team on most weekends, but has the potential to earn credit through performances and in that way get shot at playing for the SA u20s at the World Rugby Championships in June the following year.

  10. @Riempies: Correct amount of players depends on the end goal.

    A decade ago when the player drain from SA wasn’t so bad, the Sharks set their objective as a succession plan. So they looked at where they would have a need 5 years down the line and targeted players in those positions for contracts. It worked really well but again, with the help of a relatively strong Sharks Academy back then, a defeat of those proportions as the one to the Lions and other unions incl Leopards as they have experienced this year would have been avoided.

    A couple of years back EP won the u19 title with a decent bunch of players but what really set them apart was the fantastic coaching. I suspect part of the Sharks problem this year has been the coaching. This is a main worry. We have people in SA trying to blame lack of skills etc on SBR and not apportioning any responsibility to coaching once they become full time pros. You can imagine a pro golfer, tennis player or soccer player saying that because he was let down in his coaching as a teenager, he now has this weakness in his game as a seasoned pro – critics will turn around and stay to him well what is he doing now to correct the problem! Skills training etc doesn’t stop at school level.

    Anyway I’m sidetracking.

    For a number of years the Bulls have handed out many contracts. Hats off to them because they would look in every little corner for players and to build their network of feedback. I think in one of the start years, Xander spent nearly half the year away from home. The problem with the Bulls hasn’t been the junior contracting because they have acquired some of the best SBR players in SA for a number of years, it’s really boiled down to what they have done to develop those players from the time they joined. Based on the quantity in, the quality that the senior team is getting out has not been acceptable. The Bulls junior operation is run on a huge budget.

  11. @Playa: Who knows what EP is doing now. Had such a fantastic set up going with the Academy and standout coaching a few years back and now I don’t even think their u19 team would make the BHP Top 20 in 2017. It’s a real pity. Lots of kids with potential down there and of the team that won the CC u19 a few years back quite a few would not have gotten contracts at other unions.

  12. @beet: I have always maintained the loss of Paul Anthony and Nico Serfontein has a huge influence on the development of the Bulls youngsters.

  13. @Rainier: The Bulls tasted Super Rugby success. Not once or twice but thrice. Three more times than any other SA franchise. The style of play that paved the way for those successes, has maybe been an issue in player development in Pretoria ever since. In a sense Super Rugby success eventually the downfall at Loftus but imagine if personnel there had deviated from that blueprint and failed along the way, it would have always been held against them by every supporter. Anyway the junior budget is there to support a good foundation, its up to the Bulls coaching staff to produce the style of rugby and training techniques that puts them on top in the Southern Hemisphere once again.

  14. @beet: when Saru pulled the funding the EP acadamy was done for,with their cc and pro 14 comitments it would seem the two unions to make a name for youself would now be free state and ep…i think they will bring youngsters through at a much faster rate than te other unions

  15. @beet: agree with you on impact of quality coaching. In any team sport that is a critical and major success factor.
    W.r.t. contracting junior players, I understand that with the quality and success of the varsity cup system, many provincial coaches are tapping into varsity players, rather than expensive contracts. Varsity players have study as priority and that drives behaviour and decisions for where they go, obviously with rugby setup as secondary consideration. So except for Bulls (lots of contracts), the Sharks, Kings, WP, Leopards and Lions should have good “other” options. It also free’s the provincial guys up to not play “out of form” contracted players before other “in form” talent.
    Let them work for their honours!!

  16. @Smallies: het net na post so hol gevoel op maag gehad en besef ek het been van die belangrikste bakens uitgelaat. Soos WP, Sharks en Lions het hulle ook voordeel van getalle met verskeie ander leer-instellings in onmiddelike omgewing.

  17. I looked at the “Top 6” schools to see how mant times a year they play each other. I checked the last 3 years. The max is 15 games over the past 3 years.
    Paul Roos 14
    Boishaai 12
    Grey College 11
    Affies 10
    Paarl Gim 9
    Monnas 4(only 1 in past 2 years)

    I am not sure why a top rugby school like Monument shy away from playing big games. maybe Hooit can help with this. Even in next years Noord Suid, they are not playing Gim. I gained more respect for Paul Roos with probably the toughest schedule of all SA schools.

  18. @beet: Thanks Beet.

    Out of interest, how many boys are accepted to the various provincial academies? I ask, as it seems to be a huge number. I know one kid, who’s been accepted to the Bulls, Sharks and WP academies, but he attended a school whose 1st team would lose to Affies 10th team and he didn’t even play rugby this year. If they’re accepting him, they must surely be accepting hundreds of players?

  19. @Vleis: he can apply,i dont know if he will be accepted though,i have a fried whose son wnt to the sharks academy while not on contract,his dad had to pay his way…

  20. @Smallies: When my son was in grade 11 (2015), he was invited to the Sharks Academy. They said that they’d provide discounted studies, but we declined. The invitation was fairly general in nature and as kids get in despite not even playing rugby, it makes me think that there must be a massive amount of kids at the academies…which means that it is probably 99.9% a waste of time.

    My kid is playing in Ireland now anyway, so my question is just out of interest.

  21. @Vleis: The Sharks academy have been notorious for doing this.It seems to me that they play the parents by convincing them that their son is the real deal.The reality to me at least is that these chaps are being used to fund the guys who have bursaries.Heard from a number of guys who have been there that they the fee paying individuals don’t feel that get a fair crack.

  22. @Vleis: the academies can play a positive role in the system, by providing talented and trained feedstock. But they can only be sustainable if the boys do get opportunities in the provincial setups. Unfortunately this does create expectations from parents and the Academy management, on provincial administrators and coaches. If “non-deserving” decisions are made then it creates more politics. Seems that some academies have had good talent coming through.

  23. @David: Lets open a can of worms here. Monnas do not shy away from the big games. They play what they get at festivals. Last time they played Affies they gave them a hiding. Affies does not want to play Monnas anymore since then. Good news is I heard an Affies vs Monnas game is in the pipeline for 2018/19. Monnas played Grey Bloem at Wildeklawer a few times untill the last time in 2015 when Monnas beat GB. The juniors still play each other but not the seniors. Why? There are many rumours. Monnas play Paul Roos, Paarl Gim and Boishaai juniors regularly but not at 1st team level. I have heard that Monnas is still not regarded a ‘traditional’ rugby school in SA and being co-ed it is not good to loose to Monnas. The good news is that the new structure at Monnas is working hard to fix this. You will see Monnas playing more festivals from next year. Getting more derby’s and I believe they will leave the Tuks Reeks soon 2019/2020 in order to play other teams.

  24. Unfortunately the assumed ‘top 5’ schools can pick who they want to play. Helpies can confirm who they wanted to play at St Johns but the other team did not want to. Garsies is experiencing the same problems now being a non traditional rugby school. There has been more examples of big schools wanting thing theire way this year.

  25. @David: @Hooit: Hooit is correct. Monnas would not shy away, you can’t (always) choose who you want to play. It helps that the other 5 have regular derbies against each other.

  26. @Die Ken: I just feel that Monnas produce good teams most of the years, why they dont play the “top” schools more often is puzzling. Hope it changes in the coming years.

  27. Hi Beet , I believe that Oliver Calvert-Evers is going to university in the UK next year.

  28. @Hooit: You know how boxing works..Must the champion give a fight to every new contender who is suddenly in shape that wants to prove a point?. You first have to earn respect before you can dictate terms. Schools cannot play every team that wants to play against them just to satisfy the others hunger for glory. Unfortunately it takes time and results to establish one self. This new millennium age tendency of instant gratification is all to evident in our current schools set-up as well!

  29. @CharlesZA: Monnas is al lank in die tand en word oral respekteer. Ek dink die probleem kom meer dat daar eintlik net WK beskikbaar is waar hulle die top 5 kan speel aangesien hulle paasnaweek toernooie by Kearsney is en nie een van die ander is daar nie. Die WK bepalings kan net soveel kombinasies hanteer.

  30. Mind blowing this traditional school thing … last time Monnas played Affies Monnas beat Affies but the “traditional schools” will rather play Affies than Monnas. Problem is when schools have to start protect their “traditional” status … especially in the Noordvaal!

  31. @BoishaaiPa: Ek het al n geruime tyd gedink die feeste in JHB kry nie altyd die matchups reg nie. No offence maar julle het 2 oefen games en 1 teen Affies gehad die jaar. Buite WK is daar so min kans om buite streek teen groot spanne te speel, vir wie help dit as julle speel teen n span wat nie eers julle 3des kan klop nie.

  32. @AbsolutMenlo: Where do you get the term “tradional” from?..I don’t know of one of these schools that calls themselves that or that they have a specific status. It is rather a fraternity of Boys Schools that share the same ethos and value systems. Their derbies consists mostly of schools of similar ilk where all boys can compete at all levels. Grey incidentally played Monnas every year since 2010 up to 2015 with Monnas winning one, Boishaai have played them 3 times (2009, 2012 and 2015) winning all three and Paul Roos played them 4 times (2009, 2012, 2015 and 2016) winning all 4. The opportunities to play however is scarce as most teams already have their fixed fixtures and the only opportunities available is at tournaments. It doesn’t help either that they are not all at the same tournaments. So I don’t see how your statement that these schools try to protect their “traditional status” has any relevance at all!

  33. @CharlesZA: Dink jy dit is regverdig om vir seuns 3 klipharde games in 5 dae te gee?..Aan die een kant praat julle altyd daarvan dat die kinders die spel eers moet geniet. Aan die ander kant kan die sterk spanne of top spanne geen ruskans of “makliker” games geniet nie, want almal wil teen hulle been pis!..Baie van hierdie ander spanne het n hele paar easy games deur n seisoen..gun die topspanne dit ook asb.

  34. @BoishaaiPa: The term “traditional” rugby school has been used all over the blog.
    My argument that if such a “traditional” school over the years played and dominated the OTHER schools in a certain region stop playing them after losing a few games then in my book they wanted to protect their status.
    Trek maar die skoen aan as hy jou pas … :mrgreen:

  35. @BoishaaiPa: As die kampioen moet jy boks wat voor jou gesit word.Don king gaan net die beste kies,anders stel die tv netwerke nie belang nie.Julle verdedig die titel baie suksesvol so hats off vir dit.Jy weet ons respekteer dit,almal rugbymanne hier.Dan weet jy wat @AbsolutMenlo bedoel,Larry Holmes wat vir Gerrie in die 80’s gedotch het.Hoekoem?Larry was daai tyd as byna onoorwinbaar gereken deur die kenners.Sy kamp het van beter geweet,2 redes.Sy reguit regter in die vroee rondtes en belangriker,Gerrie was n simbool van apartheid.Dit sou nie slegs n oorwinning vir Gerrie en SA gewees het nie maar vir apartdheid ook.Hulle het onthou wat het gebeur en hul les geleer met die geveg tussen Schmeling en Joe louis wat n oorwinnig meer vir Hitler en sy idologie was as vir hom.So die maklike en beste uitweg was as ons nie boks nie kan ons nie verloor nie.Nie teen julle gemik nie,verstaan my mooi,julle sal in een week teen al die top skole in Noordvaal speel.Ons almal weet van wie AM praat.Maar al soos baie gese as jy nou eers begin boks,wys respek vir die champ en werk jouself op tot jy n contender is,eendag is eendag….

  36. This chat was started after the question was asked as to why Monnas do not play the top schools. I responded and it seems that all are agreeing. Valid points from all. Monnas is not in the position to make requests. We play what we get given. Even against Garsies😈😇😂. Monnas would like to play more top schools and I know Tjaart share this desire to play the top schools. 2018 fixtures and schedules mostly done so lets see what happens in 2019.

  37. @Hooit: Nothing wrong wanting to play all the top schools … but I believe you still have a responsibility to your own region in order to assist progress and ultimately more top schools within your region.
    That is why I’m so excited re Virseker 2018!!

  38. @Hooit: Enigste moontlike geleentheid is by WK en daar is net 2 wedstryde beskikbaar, so dit gaan altyd moeilik wees om gereeld games teen BH, Paul Roos, Grey en Paarl Gim en diesmeer te kry. Noord/Suid kan dit nou in n mate oplos. maar dit sal ook nie op gereelde basis kan plaasvind nie.

  39. @AbsolutMenlo: Agree but Tuks and Virseker IMO is a waste of games and time. Glad the Helpies game will now happen anually. Kes already on program. Jeppe in trials. So Lions region covered. Bulls region covered with Virseker and derby against Waterkloof. Just Affies left but hopefully it happens in 2019.

  40. @Hooit: Agree!
    Virseker should be a must!
    No … Kloof and Affies IMO should play Virseker and we should play them there. If they opt out (their decision) then sorry.
    Will therefore wait and see if our derby with Kloof will continue.

  41. @Hooit: As ek so na die Wildklawer spanne kyk dan se logika vir my dat HJS bv net 2 van 8 spanne sal kan speel…Dit sal nie sin maak om hulle teen spanne van hulle eie streek te laat speel nie..Dus is die logiese spanne wat hulle kan speel Affies, EGJ, GlenW, Helpies, Menlo, Monnas, Selborne en Waterkloof. julle het effektief 25% kans om HJS te speel :mrgreen:

  42. @Riempies: like the Bulls who got closer to 50 and still bulshitting themself.You got to have absolute no confidence to contract so many players..hope and miss system.I guarantee a lot of unhappy parents and kids next December

  43. @Hooit: Ek oortuig hulle self weet nie wat hulle doen nie.En dan is hulle besig om van die afrigters ens te “retrench”Iets ruik nie lekker

  44. @beet: Beet dont be mistaken.The Bulls and Tuks work together.Tuks contribute a large amount,and from that comes a lot of unhappyness.In change the Bulls run the young guns and Varsity Cup.Basicaly you cannot play the above without a contract.Yes there is a 5% chance

  45. @knowthegame: Hopelik verander dinge. Tyd sal leer. Maak seker nie saak waar jy speel nie. As jy die beste wil wees moet jy seker die beste klop. Of hoe?

  46. @Riempies: dit is hoe dit in teorie werk,maar rugby is ongelukkig nie so maklik nie,dit totaal subjektief.Maar sterkte.Ek dink bv DdE moet nie eers in Bok oefengroep weees nie,maar hy in matchday 23,so….

  47. @knowthegame: Daaroor stem ons dan saam.Oor DdE. Miskien is ek net so ontwaardig volgende jaar of miskien nie. Op die stadium moet ek positief wees.

  48. I know that the Lions in the past contracted plus-minus 35 junior players. I also heard that this number is being reduced to around 26-28. The Lions also have a good relationship with UJ and Wits, and normally draws from them, when gaps appear.

    WP contracts around 40 juniors.l They now also have the Maties on board, to provde bursaries.

    Maybe Beet can confirm, but the Sharks’ academy is no longer such a huge supplier of talent, as was the case in the past. The academy provides the players with accomodation and then link those of them that don,t make the provincial sides, up with local clubs, to give the youngsters some game time. The club then helps the players with a bit of funding, and somtime also meals. Only a few of these players eventually ends up with a proper contract.

    As I have previously mentioned. Most top unions only contract the vast majority of juniors for one year. The really outstanding talents will get 2 years (and in exeptional cases even longer). Players, that were offered contracts by their home union, but decides to accept an offer from another union, far from home, will normally also have a strong case for a longer contract period.

  49. Soek nog steeds n antwoord op die kategoriee? Sal nice wees om te weet wie kontrakte het en wie is academy etc by die Bulls? My seun natuurlik ook daar. Dis baie spelers! Ek reken dat die beste maatsatf sal wees hoevell vandag op die boeke is wat laasjaar aangemeld het?

  50. @Riempies: Wish I could join you to come and support the boys but have a UJ thing tonight. Keep an eye on Joe Van Zyl, Laubsher, Billing and CJ for me please – great players. Have fun.

  51. @Rainier: Ag nee man mens eet nie groente so vroeg nie.
    Daai burgers met n kaas sous. Regte vleis nie die poef wat ander plekke maak nie. :mrgreen:

  52. @BoishaaiPa: die hoenders hier is gewoond aan geweld en kan ‘n taxi toe oe “dodge”. Rede Hoekom Hulle so in aanvraag is: hulle word as kuikens in die “flats” gesource en dan oor paar weke opgejaag na Gauteng. As hulle hier Kom is daai dye extra groot en hulle KAN step. Probleem kom wanneer die Bulle hulle kry. Hulle is so verveeld van niks doen dat hulle sommer self slagpale toe stap.

  53. @Hooit: Ek sal julle nooi vir ‘n braai met tjops en wors wat van ons Karoo plaas af kom, nie by die Spar gekoop word nie.

    @Riempies: Probeer die hoender, jy sal jou deuntjie verander.

    @BoishaaiPa: Natuurlik, dis hoe hulle so plat kom.

  54. @Rainier: Gaan myself eers versadig aan die burgerjie eet net ingeval dan sal ek so stukkie groente probeer net omdat jy dit aanbeveel. :mrgreen:

  55. @Rainier: nee wat ek kuier gereeld met baie lekker RSA burgers – die Van Zyls, Odendaals, Botha’s en Van der Merwes. Glo daai 2 Burgers by Loftus vandag is Ook nie te bad nie.

  56. @beet: So sad!!! Having been on the up and up or the last few seasons, and to have it all come to nought is just a tragedy. Being booted out of SR would not have helped either. Back we go to that old situation of some unions ‘contracting’ heaps of youngsters they do not plan on using. Sjoe!

  57. @Playa: At least these unions keep some boys dreams alive and keep them busy … if only for a year … should count for something. The Bulls/Tuks academy is also more than just playing rugby … life skills and open possible doors for other opportunities in rugby. I see it as something positive!

    Kings situation indeed sad!

  58. I heard yesterday that of all the boys that were at the Blue Bulls camp only 32 have contracts with the Blue Bull company. The rest that was involve was part of the academy. I for one cannot confirm this but it is what was said by a player at the camp.

  59. @Riempies: Makes more sense. I just hope the right 32 got the contracts as a few players did not impress at all. I have my doubts about some players as self discipline in order to stay in shape is clearly absent with some players. Think the saying goes ‘Shape up or ship out’

  60. @Riempies: as some of the other unions may have less than 20 contracted players next year, the question is; Why have so many contracts?
    Surely the BB have a huge pool outside off the contracted players. Only draw in the 10 or 15 that are not committed to studies and have exceptional talent. Those that study will stay around in any case. With all the other benefits in place ( as mentioned by others) some players can also be part of the institution without being paid. Or does that also count as a contract?
    I am a strong believer that these contracts lure the boys into a false sense of security as many have a very short vision. The passion and work ethic then suffers. Rather keep them hungry and reward hard work.

  61. Riempies is right. There are about 32 – 40 contracted players. Not all have the “full” contract that includes residence, meals, study bursaries etc. There are also talented players that were identified and invited to the camp and will practice with the group and will only receive match fees if they make the team. There were also a few injured players that did not play yesterday and are either busy with rehab or were sick, to mention a few that I know from Affies: Johan van Zyl (Hooker), Johan Mulder (Scrumhalve) Carl Els (Lock/flank), Michael de Waal (Lock/prop). They all would be raedy Jan 2018 when the season starts.

  62. Die beserings wat in n jaar van rugby op U19 vlak gebeur is skrikwekkend.

    Die manne se lywe is nie gewoond aan 5 dae se hard werk van oggend tot aand nie en saam met dit kom allerande niggles en beserings.

    Wat ek probeer se is geen unie kan klaarkom sonder ten minste 30 gekontrakteerde spelers nie veral nie met n dubbel rondte Curriebeker nie. Verkieslik as jy posisies 1,2,3.9,10 in ag neem 35.

  63. @BrotherBear: If you dont have a Contract you have 2-3% chance to warm the bench.If you 1,3,4,5 you still have a small chance,anders studeer maar hard.Speel jy 15.14,11 is jou kans omtrent nul

  64. @knowthegame: that is if you have 30 or more contracted players. The odds are much higher if there are only 20 contracted players. Also only valid for first year (u\19). Players that only have sport need incredible commitment as the routine is mind numbing. Non- contracted players also have less risk of injury early on.

  65. @MikeSt: studies se die beserings gebeur tot Groot mate met spelers wat nie fiks en gekondisioneer is en ook met die wat juice.

  66. @Quagga: Jou gemis! Baie talent daar by die BB. Outjies het lekker gespeel jammer vir die mete skete en siektes. Hoop hulle is gou terug op die been. Paar outjies ook nie gespeel omdat hulle nie medies het nie. My laaitie het dit baie geniet en sien uit na volgende jaar. Nou eers matriek eind eksamen.
    Ps. Die grootste aanpassing vir die “soutie” gaan wees om pelle te maak post skool. Die Affie ouers is nou maar Affies en Monnas nou maar Monnas! Hope we can move on !

  67. @Greenman: Nee wat die ou sal fine wees. Klomp moerse nice seuns daar onder daai manne (van die veld af )(Op die veld is ouens soos Pot Jacobs nie so nice as jy TEEN hom speel nie :evil: ). Hulle sal hom sommer gou laat welkom voel. :lol: Ek het nou weer gehoor dinge het nie so goed gelyk nie, soos @Hooit opgemerk het, maar die groot manne reken dis elke jaar so tot die WERK begin.

  68. @BrotherBear: Beg to differ… maar nou ja as jy enigsins dink dat die jongmanne toegelaat word om so op te tree dink weer. Geen unie speel onfikse / ongekondisioneerde manne nie. En vir die sous part baie risky want hulle word gereel getoets

  69. Aan my mede affies en monnas ouers na die blou bul kamp. Dankie vir die lekker kuier. Sien uit na volgende jaar. Julle kuier net baie hard en hoop ek kan by bly :mrgreen:

  70. As my oorspronklike post verkeerd oor gekom het vra ek om verskoning. Sal moet nuwe lewer bestel. Hoop J nooi my weer! :!:

  71. @Beet: Very surprised to hear that the Helpies #8 Ben Clarke, who will be going to Maties, does not have a formal rugby opportunity lined up yet. He is probably the schoolboy player this year that most closely resembles the playing style of Warren Whiteley. Tough though to play in the same province as the SA Schools cappie, although their games are quite similar. Not the big physical brute, but a rugby brain of note. He was instrumental in so many instances when Helpies turned a defensive high ball into attack with Cary flying into space. His lineout work at the back was breathtaking at times. Very disappointing to say the least :evil: .

  72. @Quagga: quite ironic that you start speaking about the Helpie players after season, whilst literally brown nosing yourself on KES and Monnas during the season. I understand that Ben Clark has an arrangement with Maties and WP.
    If I were you, I would rather worry on getting a persistent performance on the park in an arena that is already challenging. %)

  73. @BrotherBear: Please elaborate on the so-called arrangement as it does not exist. Its this type of drivel that cost players opportunities. After making your frantic calls perhaps be woman enough and admit you are not as tapped in as you think. On any other issue I could not give a continental what you think.

  74. @Quagga: ooh, where does that nerve end sit? Ben going to Stellenbosch and I do not think any other piss-oil deal will change his mind
    If you so concerned about his opportunities, why don’t you call Greg or Andri or Christoff?
    It is not really what I think that should concern you. More the facts that are quite clear and visible outside the smokescreens you and your cronies create &-)

  75. @BrotherBear:I read this after your post and I though I should share this with you. Use it don’t use it!
    “Being rude is easy. it does not take any effort and is a sign of weakness and insecurity. Kindness shows great self-discipline and strong self-esteem. Being kind is not always easy when dealing with rude people. Kindness is a sign of a person who has done a lot of personal work and has come to a great self-understanding and wisdom.
    Choose to be kind over being right and you’ll be right every time because kindness is a sign of STRENGTH.”

  76. @Riempies: thank you for sharing such wisdom. It is actually very true.
    Seems I am not very strong when calling out the ruze-masters.
    Unfortunately coating a piece of horse-poop with candy does NOT improve the taste. One does however “think” it looks delicious. ANON

  77. @Riempies: @Quagga: Kom ons praat bietjie rugby,julle weet hierdie loop altyd op niks uit nie.Ek het al genoem dat ek nie so oortuig is van julle span volgende jaar nie,met wat ek gesien het by laasjaar se 0/16’s.Ja ek ken die debat by die tyd oor die 0/16.Maar ek verstaan dat daar 9 gr11 betrokke was by daai masjien span van hierdie jaar.Is dit waar?Dis baie as dit so is.Ek rate nr 7 van laasjaar 0/16.Great dat julle nou in die regte groep is by Virseker.Ons skuld julle een!Hoop nie ons skuld hoop op nie!

  78. @Grizzly: Nege ja. Vier in vanjaar se starting line-up en nog vyf in die groep. Ses voorspelers en drie agterspelers. Die gr 11 groep het nie werklik goed presteer in hulle o-16 jaar nie en ek dink nie Helpies koester enige onrealistiese verwagtinge van volgende jaar se eerstespan nie, maar gisteraand by ‘n skool funksie was die manne (ouens wat betrokke is, hetsy direk of indirek, wie se opinies ek respekteer) nogals positief gewees dat dit ‘n opwindende oorgangsjaar gaan wees met strawwe uitdagings, maar dat daar wel suksesse op die pad kan wees. Die diepte deur die bank is verseker jaar op jaar meer. Vir my was die groei in daai gr 11 spelers vanjaar iets mooi om te sien dus is ek optimisties, meer so omdat die afrigtingspan hard gewerk het om ‘n kultuur te skep wat lyk of dit volhoubaar kan wees en dieselfde afrigtingspan is behoue gebly. Persoonlik is dit vir my belangriker dat al die spanne deur die ouderdomme die trappie opwaarts met durf aanpak as wat dit is om byvoorbeeld top 10 te eindig. Wat Garsies aanbetref weet ons mos hoe sterk daai groep is, maar gaan julle nog vir Appollis hê is die vraag waaroor ek wonder?

  79. @Quagga: Ja kroonwild,@Djou sal daai een beter kan antwoord.Sover my kennis strek bly hy.Dis n uitdaging om deur al die ouderdomme sterk te bly.So het Garsies baie werk by die jaar se 0/14’s.Sien uit na ons game,sal dan ontmoet.Ek weet hoe Rieme lyk so sal dan kom groet.

  80. @Quagga: @Grizzly: Op die stadium bly hy en ‘n paar ander nog – desondanks pogings van ‘n skool met ‘n wit trui in die Wes-Rand – en nog ‘n paar ander – se pogings om hom te lok.
    Wees maar bedag, maar as daardie skool enige Garsie gaan weglok in sy matriekjaar, dan sal daardie skool maar moet oppas vir wat gaan volg.
    Die vorige keer toe ‘n skool in die omgewing dit gedoen het, het hulle 6 spelers aan Garsies afgestaan.

  81. @Riempies: can you not see how @Quagga blatantly misuses his relationship with Carl at Ruggas to promote his son? This is NOT the ethos that Helpmekaar associates itself with!!

  82. @BrotherBear: What I do see is that @Quagga is promoting the school and all of its players. If this was the case then why was his son chosen for the Golden Lions Crawen week side. In the final he was also the starting player. Now I do not believe that Carl at Ruggas and or Quagga chose these teams. Or did they in your opinion? As far as promoting kids go I think he did the same for many a Helpmekaar boy and not only his own son!!
    I believe that both of them did more for Helpmekaar than any person. The amount of media marketing they are giving the school is far more than you or myself can do.
    As far as the Ethos of Helpmekaar goes I also do not believe that it is the way of one Helpmekaar parents attacking one another on a public blog. If you have a problem with him please phone him or email him. I know you have his number. If not ask me off the block and I shall give it to you.

  83. @Djou: Ai tog,mens sal dink dat sekere persone beter sal weet as om horings te wil haak met Garsies.My advies is rol moue op en laat hulle mooi verstaan..Ek gelukkig vroeg in my lewe geleer om nie brue te brand nie…

  84. @Djou: Ek het nie besef dat Noordheuwel met hul wit strepe in hul truie so hard probeer on jul spelers te kry nie. Sal bietjie hul aanspreek daaroor.

  85. @Hooit: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: Ja, seblief!
    Dit sal nie die eerste keer wees dat Garsies spelers verloor nie. Verskil is net dat ons nie altyd sulke groot bohaaie daaroor maak nie. ‘n Ruk terug was Garsies die teiken van Waterkloof, Menlo en Affies – maar meer onlangs Glenwood en die skool met wie jy wil praat :wink: ! En PaarlBois die jaar.
    Maar dis hoe dit gaan – en beweeg aan!

  86. :mrgreen: Ek kan maar net lag. Dinge gaan baie interssant wees volgende jaar. Met al die veranderinge wat reeds plaasgevind het en dit wat dalk nog gaan plaasvind, kan ek net anders as om te wonder wie die span van die jaar volgende jaar gaan wees nie…..daar is mos elke jaar so iets of verbeel ek my? :mrgreen:

  87. @Hooit: Dit is so! … maar om ‘n ander skool se seuns te approach sal vir my persoonlik nooit aan wees nie … dit bly maar net ‘n skole sport. Indien die seun self voelers uitsteek is dit ‘n ander storie.
    Ek is van mening dat daar wel seuns in die blou bul streek is/was wat voelers uit gesteek het aangesien dinge die jaar nie altyd pluis was by die bulle nie.

  88. @BrotherBear: I strongly refute your slanderous accusations towards me on this Blog and especially resent any reference to my minor son. Your degrading, untruthful comments have been hugely upsetting, especially in the light of the current matric examination taking place. As indicated to the webmaster of this website in writing already, we will seek formal restitution through legal channels as well as demanding that the rules of the site are enforced. I am not prepared to engage with you on any topic on this Blog in future and respectfully request that you do the same. I reserve all legal rights in this regard.

  89. @Hooit: Dit was nog nooit anders nie! Hoe speel jy met iets wat jy nie het nie teen iemand wat nie teen jou opdraf nie? :lol:
    Ek weet wat jy bedoel!

  90. @AbsolutMenlo: Jy sal verbaas wees – daar is baie seuns wat voelers uitsteek na skole in Pretoria (niks met Bulle te doen nie). Hulle soek ‘n geleentheid om op topvlak hul talente te toon!

  91. @Djou: Daarmee stem ek ook saam. My opmerking is tov seuns wat alreeds in Pretoria is en nie ‘n goeie ervaring by bulle gehad het nie.
    … maar dat daar skole is wat seuns trek … geen twyfel by my!! Wie sal nou nie in ‘n absolutfantastiese skool wil wees nie.

  92. @AbsolutMenlo: @Djou: Dit is nou net hier waar die probleem lê. Skool A en hul ondersteuners sal altyd voorgee, met bewyse, dat skool B hul seuns nader. Skool B sal altyd voorgee, met bewyse, dit was die kind of n 3de party. So wie waarheen gaan pla my nie. Wie vir wie nader pla my nie. Op makro skole vlak wil jy teen die beste speel. Maak nie saak van waar hul kom nie en of hul nog saam met jou in die skool was n jaar terug nie. Jy sal sien ek het nog nooit die ‘kopery’ praatjies ernstig opgevat nie.

  93. Pity that people must revert to the legal routes due to derogative comments. I personally think this whole nickname / of skuilnaam is a evil thing to do. 90% of people wont say what they are saying if there real name is tied to it. But then again that’s the spineless world we live in.

    Beet maybe time to get the real names published / changed.

  94. @AbsolutMenlo: Almal maak goeie punte,ek dink net dit moet frustreerend wees vir n werwer/skool om iemand te verloor na jy hom 4 tot 5 jaar fin support het,afgerig het en..en.Julle jnrs wat nou deurkom na oop spanne gaan kroonwild wees.Dit bly n moeilike een …,ek dink nie SARU gaan beleid neerle gou in die toekoms nie.

  95. Grizzly…net vanoggend weer gesien Menlo werk klip hard om hulle kallers te hou, so wees versekerd hulle gaan nie oppi skinkbord wees nie!

  96. @MikeSt: Hi Mike, anecdotally I disagree with you. I think it’s down to certain individuals and by and large it is limited. We had a well known blogger who moved between his blog alias and his actual name, neither of which harnessed his outspoken nature. Add to that a late night bottle of Olof and anything is possible, it just seemed Brother Bear imbibed on his a little early in the day. To be honest to me his comments were at best jumbled and nonsensical unless you know what Cofeveve means!

  97. @MikeSt: I dont think so. You find kind people here who also use an alias. Problem is squarely an individual thing. I, personally have no issue using my real name, a lot of people here know it anyway. It’s people and their characters that is the problem.

    Howzit guys! It’s been a while :mrgreen:

  98. @Quagga: I strongly refute your slanderous accusation of accusing me of slander. In no way were your son’s actions mentioned. Rather your actions to promote your son was mentioned. You did the same by promoting a Helpmekaar coach as a first team coach, whilst he had never even been involved at first team level. Obviously @Riempies and @Hooit also believes that promoting their own kids is in order. Mentioning your own kid once may be OK, but doing it continuously through a position of power (one of @Ruggas main writers) is just not right. But if you want to live that life – feel free. I believe your son has lots of talent and has the presence if mind not to let these issues get to him.
    PS: have you been able to negotiate a contract for this year’s 8th man? @Riempies has lots of trust in your influence and gravitas.

  99. @MikeSt: yes well ‘skuilnaam’ or not; at least you have stopped badmouthing Helpmekaar after our online sharing of ideas. And so I have left you alone in reciprocity.

  100. @BrotherBear: Enige ou wat aanhou om hierdie idiotiese comments te post is nog nie hard in sy lewe gebliks@m nie.Ek sidder om te dink daai kind het jou snert gelees,weet dat dit op hom van toepassing is.Wat ookal die regte feite is hy sal altyd twyfel of dit wat hy behaal het die jaar nie deur sy pa se invloed was nie.Sy pelle in die oe kyk en wonder of hulle ook so dink nie…Ek het 1 vraag,wie en wat gee jou die reg..?!

  101. @Playa: I totally agree – it is about the individual!
    And we all know who this particular individual is.
    Interesting way of reasoning he has, though.
    It is fine for him to spread lies about other schools (which is slanderous), but you may not use the truth to defend the school against the slander.
    And it is not fine for a father to support his son (who undoubtedly has talent), because then the father “unfairly” promotes his son.

  102. @Grizzly: @Djou: It is the same as the Garsie/Waterkloof issue. By commenting you only adding hype. Just ignore and move on. I am loud and proud about my son just like a father should be.

  103. @BrotherBear: Jy het ongelukkig ‘n morsige manier om dinge te sê, MAAR, raak wel ‘n paar pertinente sake aan. Wat Ruggas betref, ek glo (en hoop innig) dat dit nie die barometer vir SA skolerugby is nie. Ouens wat skolerugby ken vat darem die spanne, toekennings ens. met ‘n knip sout, want die goedbedoelde maar duidelike vooroordeel is ooglopend en min is gebaseer op konkrete statistieke.

    Wat ouers betref, hulle doen wat hul kan om hul seuns te promofeer, dis normaal, almal se laaitie is ‘n Springbok. But if you live by the sword you die by the sword, as ‘n man nie op standaard is nie sal die stelsel hom uitspoeg. So laat die natuurlike verloop van dinge uitspeel.

    Wat ek wel gister met ‘n rugbykennis bespreek het en na hierdie jaar meer oortuig is van as ooit, is dat daar GEEN onderskeid is tussen die arme Bulle se HP manager en die by die WP, Leeus en Cheetahs nie (het die Sharks een???). Dat daardie manne wat heul met die slet agente die poorte van ons junior rugby beman, is die grootste enkele rede vir die gemors in ons rugby

  104. @Ploegskaar: Statistiek op skole vlak is maar moeilik tot onmoontlik op individuele spelers. Meeste is maar op opinie gebaseer. Ek was die jaar vir die 1ste keer betrokke by die ‘draft’ spanne en daardeur geleer dat ons almal se ‘kennis’ op skolevlak buite die prominente spelers baie beperk is tot ons streke waarin ons beweeg. Speler vertoning op CW en SAS is ook nie altyd n akkurate maatstaf nie net soos die CW spanne nie altyd n maatstaf van n unie se beste spelers is nie. Soos hul sê ‘Enige publisiteit is goeie publisiteit’ Skool kinders raak nog gewoond hieraan so ek glo in goeie publisiteit.
    Ek glo ook die sisteem gaan 80% van die kinders uitspoeg, so ons probeer daarteen waak maar net tyd sal leer.

  105. @Grizzly: het ek reg gelees; dreig jy om my fisies aan the rand? Of bepleit jy dat iemand anders dit moet doen? Het jy regtig nie @Quagga of my laaste post gelees voor jy hier geskryf het? Ek het duidelik die konteks van my skrywe verduidelik. Ek het ook nooit die speler se prestasies genoem of betwyfel. Hopelik is jy nie te ernstig beseer toe jy uit die bus val.

  106. @Hooit: Let wel ek knock nie Ruggas, spelers, skole, opinies of spelers nie, dis alles relatief. Natuurlik moet jy jou seun punt, as iemand anders dit doen nog beter. Ek sê net daar is geloofwaardigeid op die spel, so mens staan of val by wie jy staan.

    Stem nie oor stats, ek het toegang tot die meeste games se stats wat ek wil hê. Die wat nie het nie, werk ek self deur. Hier is bv ‘n interessante stat vir jou wat veelseggend is: Boland vs Gim in die nat het Boland 35 passes hele game gemaak…waarvan 9 28 en flly 2 gemaak het. Perfekte nat game komponent, voor die tyd beplan en 100% op die dag uitgevoer. Stats, span of individueel en die aanwending daarvan is die fondament van moderne rugby sukses

  107. @Ploegskaar: Ek verstaan jou punt. Glo al die groot skole het stats en video analiese. Ons gewone manne het maar net ons opinie. Glo ook jou stats baie beperk tot Boland Landbou. Meeste van ons vorm maar ons opinies van wat ons sien en onthou. Met die draft proses het ek persoonlik die 1ste keer van Duran Nasson gehoor. Hy was/is so hoogs aanbeveel deur die mense van die Kaap dat ek hom teen n baie hoë prys moes ‘afkoop’ by n mede drafter. Glo daar is slegs n handjie vol mense wat skole rugby op jou vlak kyk en so in diepte kyk. Ek self het dit net op CW gedoen die jaar, slegs op n spesifieke posisie. Dit laat jou heeltemal anders na rugby en spelers kyk.

  108. @BrotherBear: Gaan kyk na die elemente teenwoordig vir dreigement tot aanranding dan vra jy weer jou slim vrae.Jy kan jou comment egter sugar coat soos jy wil,dis wat ons noem by impliseering,meer n siviele woord as jou srafretelike een hier bo.Ek is nog op die bus dankie,soos @Quagga het ek egter niks verder op hierdie forum vir jou te se nie.Ek sal by volgende jaar se game wees by @Riempies as jy wil kom ontmoet dan praat ons in persoon.In my ondervinding altyd die beste om n kriewel uit te sort.

  109. @Hooit: Ja,ek hoop so,Menlo en kie sal daai rooster wil verander…Die Bulle is nog steeds eerste in lyn vir n final sal een van hulle spanne haal of is daar n nuwe rooster met die nuwe formaat?

  110. @Ploegskaar: en@ALL: Ek is jammer ek het ongelukkig die paar pertinente sake gemis. So kan nie kommentaar daarop lewer nie. Hoor wel my naam was genoem.
    Ek hoor jou punt oor statistieke. Statistieke se vir my ongelukkig ook nie veel nie. Word spanne slegs op statistieke gekies. Glo nie so nie. As die manne die jaar met die beste statistieke die Sa Skole span gemaak het en so vertoon het dan le daar baie swaar jare voor. Ja statistiek is slegs n nommer.
    Dan Ruggas: Ja ek dink daar baie gate en bias en en en. Persoonlik weet ek nie van enige ander skole rugby follower wat meer skole rugby bywoon as Carl nie. Ja hy ken nie al die stats van byvoorbeeld n Boland soos jy nie of van Helpmekaar soos Quagga ens ens nie. Tog dink ek sy konsep was/is iets vars en gee dit vir baie n kind bloodstelling wat hy miskien nie andersins sou kry nie.
    As mens kyk wie gaan waarheen stem sy lys tog baie ooreen met wat die unies gekontrakteer het. So dan is hy seker nie ver weg van die korrekte spelers nie?

    Dan as n ouer waar ek glo genoem is en dit nou tweederhandse inligting vir my. Ek ondersteen my kind deur dik en dun. As hy goed doen of genoem word share ek die k.k daaruit. Want sien ek is moer trots op hom. Soos dit n ouer behoort te behaag. Dit beteken nie as hy k.k speel ek doekies met hom omdraai nie. Nee hy kry dit reguit van sy grootste ondersteuner. As enige iemand dit nie vir sy kind doen nie is hy n swaap. Moet nie dan hier kom kak en kerm as jy dit nie doen nie. As jy suurgat oor iets is omdat jou lat nie genoem word nie dan is dit jou verantwoordelikheid om hom meer te noem. Ek ook onder geen elusie dat my kind dit miskien nie gaan maak nie. Dit nie n probleem nie. 99% doen nie. So die kans is goed dat hy een van die 99% gaan wees.

    Ek regtig gatvol vir een persoon wat duidelik voel hy is iewers TE NA GEKOM en voel nou dat hy hier onder n skuilnaam sy mond kan spoel.Ek hom al vele male gevra om my direk te kontak. Ek wag nog.

    @Grizzly: Ek weet baie van die seuns lees hierdie blog: My kind en @Quagga se kind val onder hulle. So ja as iets oor n kind/jongman nou gese word lees hulle dit wel.

  111. So, let’s put the facts on the table w.r.t. the Ruggas ranking of players:
    1. It is opinion based
    2. There is some correlation between the top ranking players and SA schools team selected.
    3. There are some clear misalugnments when compared to SAS.
    My question would be what purpose it serves? The game where different teams (10) were drafted had a purpose to entertain the people that drafted the teams and provide exposure to talented kids that have not been in limelight.
    My problem with the individualranking system is that it always benefits those that lies high on the list, but what about those guys low on the list and those that did not even make the list? Some of those kids may be quite sensitive and not have the support systems many other kids have. Others may not be affected at all, regardless of where they placed.
    I was asked previously how I could have the right to question a first team coach selection. Well then I can also ask who give the authors the right to question SA school team selectors. But guess what, I don’t mind if people question. Look carefully at the individual rankings and I challenge you to think critically in what the value would be. Is it not best not to have such “lists”?

  112. @BrotherBear: You know what, one could take all what you have said and substitute “Individual” with “School” – and you have made some valid points. Rankings are a exactly that – open to scrutiny, and ARE NOT A FAIR/TRUE INDICATION OF REALITY. I personally think there are bigger things to worry about than burst a vein over a ranking, in whatever form. More often than not, rankings are to spark debate. Debate them if you must, but to point out the flaws serves no purpose because I think everyone will agree that they are flawed.

  113. @Riempies: jy verwys moontlik na my in jou kommentaar oor iemand wat “te na gekom voel”. Ek kan jou verseker dat ek geen issues het in daardie verband. Ook geen issues as ouer hulle kind ondersteun nie – wie sal dit nou wragtag nie wil doen nie. Daar is egter maniere EN maniere. Keep playing field equal! Gaan lees maar weer die stellings, ek gaan dit nie weer herhaal en probeer asb. konteks verstaan. Ons moet lighties los om hulle ding te doen en natuurlik in privaat ondersteun. Om ‘n kind te hard te druk en hoe verwagtinge in openbaar te skep kan uiters gevaarlik wees. Sommige gedy, ander ervaar dit egter nie so positief. Hierdie gaan nie oor een of ‘n ander persoon, maar eerder die norme waarmee die rugby gemeenskap lewe.

  114. @Playa: I agree w.r.t. school rankings, but there the benefit is that DATA and equations are used to determine relative positions. There is a basis for each set of rankings, however relative it is.

  115. Wie gee regtig om oor rankings van skole individue spanne ens ens. Niemand kyk eers daarna nie en verseker niemand in die proffesionele arenas nie. Dit is volgens my bloot in onderwerp vir interresantheid gebaseer op opinies.

    So as n kind Nr 1 of 1000 is maak nie saak nie want dit gaan nie daaroor nie. Party ontwikkel op 9 ander op 15 ander op 25. Elkeen het maar sy eie gene van ontwikkeling.

    Wat ek wel moet byse is dat ouers direk betrokke by kom ons se publikasies moet wel nooit kommentaar lewer oor hulle kinders se performance nie. Dis gevaarlike water om te trap.

    Interresante artikel wat ek wyle terug gelees het

    One of your most essential goals in your children’s lives as athletes is to have them gain ownership of their participation. They need to feel that their sport is their thing. But ownership isn’t just something that they can gain on their own. Rather, it is a gift you give them that offers so many wonderful benefits to their development as young athletes and, more importantly, as young people. It is also something that you can take away from them with ease.

    Perhaps the greatest obstacle to your children gaining that ownership of their sport occurs when you commandeer that ownership to meet your own needs. There are a variety of red flags that you should look for in yourself and your spouse to judge whether either of you is putting your own needs ahead of those of your children, whether you are stealing your children’s athletic life.

    Red Flag #1: Merging with Your Child

    In your zealousness to see your children find athletic success, you are in danger of becoming so involved in your children’s efforts that you may not distinguish between your own needs and those of your children. The University of Washington researcher Frank Smoll calls this the “reverse dependency trap” in which parents overidentify with their child’s experience and define their own self-worth based on the success of their children.

    Sports may actually become more important to you than to your children. This excessive interest on your part, rather than promoting your children’s participation, undermines their interest by taking away their ownership of their sport. Your children may develop the perception that the sport is no longer theirs because you seem to be doing more than they are. In essence, you merge with your children in their athletic efforts.

    If you merge with your children, you will assume roles that are outside of your purview as a parent, such as doing all scheduling without your child’s input, talking too much about their sport, attending all practices and competitions, and coaching your children (even if you don’t really know much about the sport). An early sign that you might be merging with your children is that you take responsibility away from them, such as constantly asking them whether they have maintained their equipment properly or are adequately prepared for an upcoming competition.

    The clearest and scariest signs that you might be merging with your child is if you enter the “we” zone, meaning you begin talking about your children’s sports participation in terms of how “we” did, for example, “We had a great game today” or “We qualified for Junior Nationals.”

    Red Flag #2: Living Vicariously Through Your Children

    One of the great joys of being a parent is sharing in your children’s achievements. Your excitement for their successes and your disappointment for their failures are a normal and healthy part of parenting. But sharing your children’s sports participation doesn’t mean living through them.

    Sharing their experiences places the focus on them. The emphasis is on what the experience means to your children, the emotions they are feeling, the lessons they learn, and the benefits they gain from their sport. When your children perform well, you are thrilled for them. When they perform poorly, you feel their sadness. With sharing, it is all about your children.

    When you are living vicariously through your children, the focus is on you: your emotions, what the experience means to you, what you gain from it. When your children have good competitions, you feel that you have succeeded. When your children have bad competitions, you feel that you have failed. With living vicariously through your children, it is all about you.

    Red Flag #3: Placing Your Happiness on Your Children’s Shoulders

    It’s tough being a kid these days. Your children have so many responsibilities including school, family, social life, and their sports participation. These challenges alone are sufficient to burden your children. Yet when you become overly invested in your children’s sport, you may also place on them the additional responsibility of making you happy. If you do not gain sufficient meaning and satisfaction from your own life and look to their sport involvement as the primary source of ego-gratification, your self-esteem becomes dependent on how your children perform in their sport.

    Imagine the burden. Every time your children compete, your happiness is squarely on their shoulders. If they succeed, you will be happy. If they do poorly, you will be unhappy. Imagine the pressure your children will feel when they walk onto the field, course, or court. Your happiness is on the line and it is entirely on their shoulders!

    The first red flag that might signal that you are placing your happiness on your children’s shoulders relates to the strength of your emotions compared to theirs. Are you more nervous before competitions than your children are, more excited when they succeed, and more disappointed when they don’t perform up to expectations?

    Another red flag is if you’re more concerned with results, points, and rankings than the developmental benefits of your children’s sports participation. What is the first thing you ask your children after a competition-“How did you do?” If the results of your children’s competitions take precedence over the fun and life lessons learned, then you may be placing your happiness on your child’s shoulders.

    Red Flag #4: Losing Perspective

    Sports are seductive. Fame and fortune resulting from athletic success appear to be waiting for your children if only they have the talent and determination to reach that level. They could be the next Olympic champion or multi-million dollar “bonus baby.” This dream can cause them to lose perspective on sports’ intrinsic value of fun, life lessons, and life-long health.

    If you also buy into this unrealistic perspective and direct your energy based on this illusion, you may be setting your children up for failure and you for disappointment. If you are seduced by the same naive perspective and encourage this view in your children to the exclusion of anything else, you are inflicting potentially long-term and irreparable harm to your children’s personal development.

    The odds of your children becoming great athletes are also infinitesimally small. How many Nadals, Wies, and Bradys emerge in any generation? I’m not saying that your children’s shouldn’t dream big (if they don’t aim for the sky, they won’t even get to the top of the mountain), but that shouldn’t be your focus as sports parents. And you definitely shouldn’t expect a financial return on your investment from your children’s athletic lives.

    Red Flag #5: Overmatching Your Child

    In your zealousness to encourage your children’s athletic development, you are in danger of pushing them harder and harder, even when they may not be prepared for the increased demands. For example, you might commit your children to training camps all summer when they would benefit more from a few weeks of camps along with fun and activities unrelated to the sport. Dr. T. Berry Brazelton, the author of What Every Baby Knows, observes that “parents today seem to be anxiously concerned with early learning. With a [child] who has a slow start, parents’ anxiety to prove she’s OK may lead them to push her to do things before she’s ready…An environment full of pressure is likely to become a strained, joyless one…Eventually they have trouble coping with the demands of our complicated society.” By placing your children in practice and competitive situations in which they are overmatched, you may be inadvertently inhibiting, rather than facilitating, their interest, achievement, and enjoyment in their sport.

    The essential question: Why would you put your children in situations in which they are overmatched? One reason may be that you might overstate your children’s capabilities. You may not have a realistic understanding of their athletic abilities. You may use peer comparisons in your judgments. You may think, “My Stephanie is a better athlete than her friend Jenny, so she’s ready move up to the next level of training.” Your own ego and achievement needs can cause you to overmatch your children. Because of your emotional investment in their sport, you may have difficulty admitting that they are anything but the most talented athlete out there.

    Wanting to “fast-forward” their development is another reason for overmatching your children. In our society where achievement is so highly revered and rewarded, you may feel pressure to give your children every advantage by putting them on what you believe is the fast track to success. This urgency shows itself in the need to get your children involved with personal trainers, private coaches, and too much competition at too early an age. You may also feel the need to “keep up with the Joneses.” Unfortunately, you may not realize that development can’t be rushed; the necessary time and effort has to be put in and your children have to be allowed to develop at their own pace.

    Dr. Benjamin Bloom, the author of Developing Talent in Young People, believes that pushing children too quickly up the development ladder will actually slow their progress. He describes the initial romance stage of development as emphasizing play, fun, and exploration. During this stage, children learn fundamental skills and develop a love for the achievement activity. Dr. Bloom found that rushing children through their development interfered with the emergence of these areas and left them with inadequate motivation and skills to be successful later in their development in their sport.

  116. @MikeSt: ons ouers se grootste werk is om die laaitys se voete op die grond te hou en om te keer dat hulle koppies te groot raak,die oomblik wat dit gebeur neig hulle om te dink dat hulle groter as die spel is ,dit is opvallend om te sien dat die groot name in rugby gewoonlik die nederigste is…

  117. @Hooit: Dankie Mnr waardeer.

    @Smallies: Dis baie baie moelik maar niks wat n klappie of 2 nie kan regmaak nie. Rugby is soos baie ander sporte maar net eenvoudig n cruel game. Vandag hero more zero.

  118. @MikeSt: JA, die leesstuk maak mens eintlik wakker want ek lees baie van myself in daardie artikel. Ons wil maar net die beste vir ons kinders hê, en dit gaan so op alle gebiede en vlakke nie net in sport nie.

    Hier is van die manne hier wat my ken en weet dat ek dalk te hard op seuns was om te presteer soos ek dit wou hê, maar dit het verander want ek het besef dit moes gebeur. Nou vind hulle, hulle eie voete en dinge gaan in alle opsigte baie beter.

    Ek volg jou seun se loopbaan al van skooldae af, en ek kan sien tot op hede doen hy baie goed. Ek dink ook nie dit gaan sommer verander nie.

  119. @Grizzly: Dankie vir die wense. Was op EG ja en naam is Hendre.

    @Hooit: ja dit is n harde leerskool vir enige ouer. Ek het gelukking n leerskool deur gegaan met my oudste en redelik aangepas van wat ek maar ook opgelees het oor die moets en moenies. Mens se grootse vrees is dat jou kind erens van die wa afval nie agv talent nie maar dat die wereld hulle insluk. Die prof era daar buite is n cruel world en dis niks ander as n wors masjien nie.

  120. @Grizzly: En ongelukkig is dit maar moelik vir sommiges om die son te skyn vir ander wat dit nog baie moeiliker maak.
    @MikeSt: Jammer jy kon nie by Vrydag aand se funksie wees nie.

  121. @MikeSt: Ok,nou is ek op hoogte,nee van hom weet ek,yster.@Hooit: Dit gaan ons nooit verander nie,never.Aan daai persone,en hulle weet presies wie hulle is,se ek sterkte.Dit moet n baie swaar kruis wees om te dra elke dag van jou lewe…

  122. Ek sien dit as ouers se plig om kinders sovele geleenthede as moontlik te kan gee binne jou vermoe en dan te ondersteun. Elkeen het sy eie verwysings raamwerk waarbinne hulle daardie ondersteuning uitvoer. Die riglyne van die skrywe is n goeie verwysings raamwerk in hierdie geval. Die realiteite van die lewe is egter dat nie elke kind dit altyd in die professionele sport arena gaan of kan maak nie en daar moet vroeg genoeg n daadwerlike besluit gemaak word wat die loopbaan beplanning is. Die meeste kinders op 16/17 is nog nie volwasse en wys genoeg om daardie besluite op hulle eie te maak nie en dit is hier waar die ouers se leiding van kardinale belang is. Dis egter net hier waar baie van ons kan klei trap…Lei jy hom in n rigting wat JY graag wil he hy moet gaan of laat jy jou lei deur wat die beste vir jou kind is en hoe weet jy regtig wat dit is?..Die n regte catch 22 situasie en n moeilike een vir elke ouer waar daardie keuse tussen sport of akademiese loopbaan gemaak moet word. Dis hier waar oop kaarte gespeel moet word en na alle opsies en moontlike scenarios gekyk moet word. Regtig nie altyd n maklike besluit nie, maar een wat elke ouer op n stadium saam met sy kind moet neem. Die belangrikste is dat ouers en kind op dieselfde golflengte is en dat daar 100% ondersteuning is wat ookal die besluit is, anders kan dit net tot verwyte in latere lewe lei.

  123. @Hooit: So uitgesien daarna maar nou ja toe besluit die duikpak manne met n go slow om my aand heeltemal omver te gooi. Hopelik volgende keer.

  124. @BoishaaiPa: Stem (vir ‘n verandering!) met alles saam wat jy sê. Maar vir my, as ‘n kind die verstandelike vermoeëns het om ‘n suksesvolle akademiese loopbaan te volg, is daar nie eintlik ‘n keuse nie. Dis eintlik so jammer dat die era waar ‘n kind albei kon doen verby is.


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