This topic has come up in conversation with the staff from two schools that had each lost a star player this season. It revolved around the repayment of bursary money. There were different views offered by the staff on what should happen.
Here is an example of where I’m going with this: A high school has had a good Grade 10 rugby player on a sports bursary ever since he arrived at the school in Grade 8. Suddenly and unexpectedly, the boy’s parents decide to transfer him to a local rival school. It’s believed that because of his rugby talent, the boy was intentionally recruited by his new school who approached his parents and convinced them to make the move. At his new school the boy is awarded a sports bursary equivalent to the one he had at the previous school.
At the first aggrieved school, the staff believed that the boy’s parents should repay the money because he did not complete his schooling at their institution. Whether we choose to accept this or not, most members of the general public only look at first team rugby results. Like it or not this is where a school gets most of its mileage from funding a player’s education and in many instances boarding as well. However a repayment condition of this nature is typically not build into the signed bursary contract. There was talk amongst the staff of including a clause in future bursary agreements though. If it came into being, it would basically state that the parents would be obliged to repay the full sum of the bursary money spend by the school in the event of the player moving to another school, without his first school being in agreement with such a move.
At the second feeling hard done by school, an official stated that perhaps the bursary should be structured as a loan agreement, which would accumulate over the period of time the boy spent at the school. It would then be written off at the end of the loan period in Grade 12. I’m not exactly sure how this would be structured but it was an idea put forward to make parents accountable for the money invested by the school in their child if he did not complete his schooling there. An alternative view offered by this staff member was that if the boy did not receive financial assistance at his new school and his parents were prepared to pay his way there, then there would be no hard feeling and a repayment to the first school would not be necessary. However knowing that there is no requirement to disclose many of the bursaries offered via Old Boys and outsiders, could make this suggestion a little tricky to enforce. It must also be pointed out that his gracious feelings towards the parents did not extend to the method used by the new school to acquire the player in question.
So I’d like to ask what your feelings are regarding terminated bursaries of this nature. Right now a school has to accept that the money they have forked out is gone when a boy leaves before the time. Others might add that this money has been repaid by the player during his time in their junior A-teams. Should there be an onus on the parents or maybe even the new school to repay this money to the old school as a type of transfer fees. I believe that an Old Boy who funded a player’s education and boarding a few years back eventually did get his money back after the schoolboy jumped ship to join another school.
@Queenian: Very interesting
@rugbyfan: The BTH we have put in place to try and reverse the demograpics of the kids at Queens have alook at the following table to see how it has changed.
1983 2010 2012
Queenstown 244 487 441
NEC Farming Area,s 135 73 98
Stut/King/EL Area 49 3 11
PE area 22 1 2
Cape Town Western Cape 18 0
Gauteng 158 1 6
Free State 13 0 1
Natal 24 1 2
Transkei 33 7 21
Zim/Zam 6
702 573 582
And for 2013 we have another 14 kids back from areas we had lost out on we do realise we will not get it back to were it was but our aim is to get the boarders up from 163 to 250.
In the last 3 years there have been 18 kids playing 1st rugby for other schools who,s fathers were Queens old boys 7 of those represented Craven Week at there provinces at thats what we want to reverse
@Queenian: Queenian agree with you on the BTH(Bring Them Home) system at Queens good idea.
I was at a golf day the other day in JHB were there were alot of Grey/Queens/MC old boys playing there and what stood out was that i could not find any Queens Old boys there younger than 35 when i ask the one Old Boy he explained that up until about 1994 there were nearly 150 boys at Queens from JHB who boardered there now there are only 4. Which shows how things have changed.
@Queenian: Well said
@Queenian: Agreed
Bursaries for rugby.
Pro,s
1. Lets schools keep there own talent
2. Allows kids that are at school that do not have a good sports program to at least go to one that has.
Con,s
1. Starts a lot of bad blood between schools when one just plunders the others talent.
2. And yes it means money talks which can be great evil.
Now imagine a school was left 500 million rand by some old boy they could go out there and cause complete meyham with schools rugby. Which i do not think is what we are looking for.
What would help the problem is if the Goverment got off there butt and actually gave all Model C fee paying schools what is due to them. I will give you an example if a school has 600 boys rightfully that school even being a model C fee paying school should receive around 1,5 million from the state but instead receive only about a 140 thousand.
And amazinly in the Eastern Cape last year of the 675 million given to Bisho for this budget only 86 million was paid to schools the rest was not spent although only 103 million was in the coffers at year end and nobody knows what happened to the rest.
@beet: thanx beet,ja sounds like he went for x rays last night,could be snapped
sorry i had it wrong,it was Greg that played hooker against them,which baywatch was looking forward to,they are competing for that 3rd and 4th spot in the hp squad for next year,how did cope and the other academy boys go?was there any talant that stood out for you?
There are two KZN schools in particular that take from the Eastern Cape and word is that they’ve BOTH gotten themselves a couple of players from one of the Prep schools, one is from Dale Junior. I know of an U14 kid at dhs from EC, he made the EC U13 craven week team last year and he is REALLY,REALLY good! The Eastern Cape has really lost out here…
As for Prep schools, in kzn its more of an open thing with everyone going everywhere…GWD Prep kids going to DHS,DPHS kidsgoing to Kearsney,Clifton kids to MHS etc,certainly not nearly as much loyalty
@QC86: Baywatch was in top form during the first chukka. Unfortunately seems like he picked up a painful thumb injury during that first period. Franco wasn’t in the Impis team. They also had these passive engage scrums in the 1st period
@QC86: Thats good to hear.Getting hungry just by the thought.
@Playa: knew you had class,prices alot better than last year,stock prices were mad in 2011
@QC86: That would be awesome!!!
I normally get my braai meat at your shop,the extra biltong will come in handy
@Playa: weather is good today,forecast abit mix looking forward,pull into the shop and i will sort you some biltong,on the house, to go with your beer.
@The Beast: Jeez it was the locusts again. Damn this is embarrassing. Spoke to my peeps at Glenwood about this. They say that this kid was fair game since he is outside of the province. He has the standard Glenwood starter-pack (Ipad, Ipod, Iphone and full scholarship) but cos this guy is so good they have thrown in leg-over twice a week from his Grade 10 year onwards with a Moore Rd (a.k.a. Che Guevara Rd) lady of his choice.
GW will soon announce their Big-Gun package which they say not even a Grey College boy will be able to refuse. Due to confidentiality I have been sworn to secrecy on this – all I can say is the ‘incentives’ offered to Le Roux van Zyl pale in comparison.
@QC86:
Is it still raining up there.Flying up next weekend,I hope I’ll be going home to some beer drinking weather
@Playa:
@QC86: At least you’re giving some sort of reason,though Im not sure of its validity.Maybe age-testing along with drug testing is something that will need to be standardised in schoolboy rugby in future.
@Playa: the two fat rolls on the back of no8’s neck,looks like the skin between the legs of an old elephant bull,and i say again i will pay for his age test.
@The Beast: I think we have learned that you are not the most gifted person where common sense is concerned.What you have is a suspicion.Which is fine, we’re entitled to our own opinions.The 2011 Selborne pack weighed more than the 2011 Stormers pack (which was the biggest pack in Super 15 last year).Is it fair to say those boys used steroids?Is it fair to say they are over-age (weighing as much as professional players in their late 20s and all)?All of this simply because “they dont look their age”?Its not enough.If you have a suspicion,then investigate and get the facts.Your common sense is NOT fact.
@The Beast: You are the one not making sense.You have given nothing concrete to back your claim.
@Playa: Well if No.1 and No.8 are 19, then I am 19 as well. Please mate, common sense tells me those are not the faces of boys.
@Playa: as long as you can see it is wrong then in my mind more than half the battle is won,early is the way to go@beet: keep an eye out for baywatch today,game is at 5pm,was told Franco was playing NO2 for KZN,that will keep baywatch busy
@The Beast: Don’t run away by throwing that at me.I asked the question…what makes them look old?Please answer that.
@beet: Indeed.In the EC,the junior schools and high schools are practically one entity.It becomes a shock to the system when boys are recruited at Under 13 by other schools.
@Playa: Dont start the race card theory, so over that bullsh*t. White, black, green, red, brown, I dont give a damn just make sure those boys are the correct age otherwise other kids get hurt. Your u/14 and u/15 seem very old and mature as well, maybe the governing body of your school should have a look at what is going on.
I must say the EC schools also do seem to have much stronger bonds between primary and high schools. Here in KZN it is a kind of a feeder school system that prevails. But if a boy goes to high school B from primary school A, it’s not that big a deal for high school A’s followers. The associations are not that strong, so it never gets termed as poaching here. So for me a Selborne u13 flyhalf seems fair game but obviously in the EC it’s called poaching.
We have had various discussions and debates about recruitment after Gr.8 (u14) amongst the KZN bloggers here. Everyone including myself had a different opinion on what constitutes acceptable recruitment. Amongst that variation was the notion that as long as KZN schools did not steal boys from each other, recruiting was acceptable. This case of a Queens player being hounded by a KZN school certainly makes the issue more real, particularly for those that don’t see the problem with a cross border raid.
@QC86: Well they are Dale representatives and part of the team.And like I said,the plan is to start bringing them earlier.Had to start somewhere.
@The Beast: I had this discussion with oldschool a few weeks back,and he accused me of playing the race card.So I will ask you the same question I asked him…what is it that makes them look old.Im 30 years old, married and with a 21 month old son.And when cleanshaven,I sometimes get asked to produce ID.Point is looks are not enough to make a deduction.I support that testing needs to be done…just as we have 130kg,2m tall 17 year olds that also need to be tested.
@QC86: They should be cos he is damn good, don’t be surprised if you see him in the Western Cape though.
@The Beast: locusts have thrown alot of money at selborne u13 flyhalves family too
@Playa: I see you very quiet re those mug shots?
@beet: Well seeing Queenian is so diplomatic. why dont I start the ball rolling. It can only be the Locusts!!!!!
@Queenian: Howzit Queenian.Good to have you here.This is much much better than 365.
@Queenian: By not revealing the name of that KZN school, you automatically put yourself in line for PeaceKeeper Blogger of the Year.
I can just imagine the war of words between various KZN bloggers if they came to find out who it is.
Also just to note that Queens will not go out and target kids that are at well estabished schools to move to Queens “Unless” these are Old Queenian sons but it will be done the correct way.
Our aim is to target kids who are not in a position to attend a school were they could further there skills.
@beet: Ye we are well aware of the Fortuin story which looks like it will cost Queens a packet to keep him but that is our aim. Just like the Under 13 player from this year that was offered 5 different offers were Old Boys had to match it to keep him. But that we will do.
I do know the Grey Bloem offer for Fortuin was with drawn on mutual grounds between Grey and Queens the problem is now a certain Durban school which i will not name is been a pain in the butt.
But i am sure we will prevail, Queens realised a few years back they had to block this type of things and we will do anything to stop it.
I suggest a visit to http://www.dalecollege.co.za/rugby.htm and look at the mug shot of each player who played First XV in 2012. Then tell me all those boys are u/19, we might be dumb but come on now.
@Queenian: I agree with that you must bring them in young otherwise the long term result is a disaster
Dale u/14 and u/15 sides have always seemed to do well enough without the importing of boys from Zimbabwe, so why is it required when the soul reason for them coming is not an education but to play rugby?
If money can be found for them, why can money not be found for other local boys even if they arrived in Grade 10 or 11?
Dale need a reality check in my mind, it wont be long before many schools refuse to play them cos more than half their team is made up of over aged boys. Where will that put Dale????
I already hear that a certain school in the EC is losing interest in playing Dale because of this.
The next worry for Border SBR is their own senior rugby Union which has already prevented boys from playing at Craven Week this year. I’ve heard of an attempt to poach the young Queens lock (I think he’s name is Fortuin). There is a situation in the region now that prevents player from actively securing his rugby future while still at school. It presents an opportunity for the bigger richer Unions to acquire Border players before they complete their schooling. It’s a worry. The next Jho or Dell could potentially end up finishing his schooling in the Province that he desires to represent after school for a number of reasons with the main one being the CW door being shut in his face by his own Border RU.
@Playa: I think the biggest thing that you must look at is that it will take Queens nearly 5 years to bear the fruit they are planting now so i think Dale must look at something as just bringing in boys in there last year or two will have a reverse effect because the boy in Grade 8 at Dale with have nothing to stay for if they know they might play through all the age groups in say the A team and then miss out at 1st team level just because a kids was brought in for a year, you will lose more kids to Selborne and even Queens that way.
@rugbyfan: Hey idiot why would QC86 support Grey Bloem you have enough already but ye we have started doing the same thing i got the idea from you last year already.
So at Grey we now have 12 class bursaries going so maybe you should try that at Queens
@QC86: Hopefully we can count on your support what i did was get all the Old Boys who left in 83 together and thats how we got going.
@rugbyfan: saw a team photo on face book the other day
Grey College have used investments ie: like the shopping centre they built to keep themselves competive which then keeps Fees low which makes it alot easier to attract the right kids not saying some kids are not helped fincially.
@Queenian: if they did it in a manner that does not hurt boys that have been at Dale for years,QC way that you have just explained is perfect,no complaints from me
@QC86: Hey how did you know old Queenian was a 4th team player maybe a good guess
@beet: only a 4th team jersey want to keep this blog as real as possible
@QC86: You must admit you must give Dale a bit of credit for trying they have to do something otherwise they will just become a nobody.
@Playa: i know the truth about those boys,i work in this town,shop owner next door wife teachers at Dale, :mad: so if you wont lay claim to them whats the point?@beet: as always beet you are level headed about this,but i have to read every newspaper about how good Dale is\are/was,written by some old grey haired old boy,in a case like this the Queens motto comes to mind,TO BE, RATHER THAN TO SEEM TO BE,@Playa: you wont lay claim to them,but you are happy to lay claim to the results they bring :???:
@beet: Can you put a Queens rugby jersey on for me.
@Playa: Hey Playa how you doing
@beet: Agree with you there currently at Queens the busaries being given out are either 5 year which means from Grade 8 and 3 year which means from Grade 10.
It is important that you try and bring these kids in as early as possible so there is a sense of belonging otherwise the effect is only short term.
At Queens there are currently 8 Scholarships given which 6 are 5 years and 2 3 years.( The aim is to double this figure. )
Also Queens are running a “Bring Them Home Campaign” which has raised a good amount already which aims to bring back at least 5 Old Boys kids in grade 8 or 10. These may not be Scholarships although some will be, even part scholarships. The aim of this is to get the boarding back up to a decent level.
I am personelly involved in raising a 5 year scholarship at the moment for a kid to start in Grade 8 in 2014. ( We must just remember that a 5 year scholarship cost around R 280 000 )
Dale does as thorough checks as it is posible to ensure that the boys are within age.The 2 under 19 boys that came this year represented Zim at Under 19 in rugby and cricket this year.I can only think that proper checks are done at international level,and we can trust that they are within age.
@rugbyfan: Hey mate good to see you here flip this looks better than Rugby365
@QC86: Look, I do not entirely agree with getting boys at Under 19 level.But this is a work in progress.The aim is to get them at an earlier age.Dale historically campaigned to get boys from the Transvaal, and even further up to Zim, and Zambia.And for the record, only 2 boys came in this year, there other 2 had been at Dale since Grade 10,and one came in Grade 11.
Dale has never claimed Greg Somerville to be their product,so we wont claim these boys either.
And as beet points out,this is an untapped market.Watch this space,a lot of schools will be doing the exact same thing in years to come.
@QC86: I’m opposed to over-aged players. And I agree with points made that schools need to get or work hard at keeping their house in order because public perceptions and reputation counts for a lot.
But in SBR we are increasing seeing tradition coming up against professionalism. Tradition suggests your 1st team should be boys that grew up in the school with a desire to wear the jersey and run on for their first team one day. That passion and love they have for their school and take onto the rugby field is something built up over time. Professionalism suggest that the later you can identify a talent and back him financial, the better your shot at success. If a school had to hold back and give out 100% scholarships to recruits in the u17 – u19 player age-group, the risk to reward is far lower and less costly than trying to achieve the same objective with u14 gr. 8 players.
Add to this that schools like Dale, Queens and a few others seem to be shrinking in size rather than growing, it seems like more thinking outside the box is required. In Dale’s case this might be translating into an even more professional approach than most other schools are willing take???
So there are a few issues to be ironed out.
*Over-age players – a definite no-no
*Home-grown vs Recruits???
*Degree of professionalism in school rugby
*School credibility and image preservation
*Eastern Cape schools future plans to remain competitive as their numbers shrink
@The Beast: So i suppose you just want Dale to role over and die what they did with the Zim boys was to try and inject some go into there system, I will agree with QC86 i saw those boys and ye it 2 of them looked a bit old to me but i might be wrong.
We need to do proper checks on kids before doing this.
@QC86: What Dale are doing stinks. These boys are all supposedly u/19, I bet most of them have no knowledge of when they were born. Imagine those kind of stats being kept in Zimbabwe?
@Playa: so playa if Adongo spent one rugby season at Dale would you old boys lay claim to his development and success?? i would like to believe not,
@beet: yes,but they did not all go to the same school at the same time at u19,i say once again what is the point,those boys should be at nmmu or tec like the other couple of million of their peers,not playing against schoolboys to bolster Dale’s firsts
@Playa: When you think of the number of countries that DON’T play rugby, you quickly realise there are are many untapped markets out there. They might not produce 15 players in 15 different positions but just 1 good player is all it sometimes takes to change the fortunes of an entire team.
There are so many examples. For now George Gregan with his roots in Zambia and now Raymond Rhule born in Ghana come to mind.
@Playa: you never answer my question when it comes to those zim boys,my question is,what is the point of importing u19 players,like the 5 from this season??and snubbing your own home grown boys,i would also leave.
@QC86: The government should be commending Dale for embracing change.What they are doing is uncalled for.Dale is the most representative school in the country where community demogarphics are concerned.
And yes,we’re looking at Zimbabwe…only natural for a place where no South African wants to be.We were the first at looking at local black kids,and now that has been overdone and kids are being taken from us, we’re looking ahead.
Watch this space…that’s where the whole system is going.Where does Adongo come from?Which school did he go to?Many more where this is going.
@The Beast: Dale does not have any over aged players in any team mate.Believe you me.
sorry should be SPEND hours,must be the red mist clouding over my eyes@The Beast:
heard 6 were on their way for the firsts
@Playa: I just hope Dale remember to not play any over aged goats from Zimbabwe next year in their u/14 and u/15 sides.
@Playa: so true boet,my point is that the education dept can even begin to think it is enough,but they send hours everyday at those schools looking for fault,i kid you not.
@QC86: Agreed.Parents need to fit the bill,more so than old boys,as their kids are in the school already.But the power in a an active old boys union is invaluable as can be seen at Selborne and Queens.Attracting and retaining the best educators requires more than just school fees.
I think Dale gets around the same amount as well.Ridiculous,I tell you.And then the government wants to cap the fees charged.As understandable as it may be,but they need to up their grant because maintanance of such schools is a costly affair.
@Playa: queens will be better off,just because they are further away from a big town like EL,but Dale will battle to keep their cream,as for the old boys i dont agree,my hope lies in the parents,they need to stick their hands in their pockets and pay their fees, plus more,like is done at Selborne,do you know that the dept pays Selborne Primary only R20 000,00 a year for up keep and the school spends over 1.2 mil a year on that task,the rest comes from funds scratched together,lots of work behind the scene,very sad that our gov can allow that to happen :sad:
@QC86: I must say that is not surprising at all.It’s no race card,but it is unfortunate that there is a certain stigma attached to black teachers.
The unfortunate thing where Dale and Queens are concerned is that they are situated in small towns, with very little to offer outside of school property.This is the advantage that Selborne has over them.The only way to beat this is by having old boys interested in taking their boys to the schools,and them therefore having a vested interest in the school.By this, it will be much easier for them to dig out of their pockets to put proper offers to the best available teachers in the country.In my day, we had teachers coming from as far out as England, and the USA, and had a couple of teachers from Kearsney, St Andres, and St Stithians.But our current headmaster has pushed old boys further and further away from the school and hence there is little support for the school coming from outside of King.
We need and long and brave shot, which, as much as I hate to admit, will require co-operation from government as both King and Queenstown are towns on life support (to steal a phrase from Gungets Tuft).
@Playa: you know playa i am the last one to go down the race road,but i often talk to Dale parents in my shop and they often say straight out they want their kids to be taught by white teachers,no mincing of their words,and all our teachers are been brought by the private schools,how do we beat this??
@QC86: Agreed.If we are to go to reasons why our boys get “snatched”, you are right about the quality of teachers dropping.That is one of my biggest concerns.It has become so easy for boys to choose to leave Dale because of that very reason.Lots of work needs to be done.
Regarding the goat story…that is just embarassing
@Playa: its not a case of other schools snatching Dale talant,but more a case of Dale’s quality of teachers droping,a Dale teacher arrived at my farm neighbour the other day in a school bus to load a goat for his family function,it was reported to the headmaster,but still,difficult times ahead for our schools
@All Black: @All Black: Newspaper report this morning says he has a thick Kiwi accent – that will make assembly interesting!! He has very impressive credentials. Good luck to him – hope he takes College forward.
@rugbyfan: Head on the nail.And Queens have done very well to come up with a scheme that has helped them retain their players.
Dale has also never had a bursary scheme running.What has happened though is that when a talented player is spotted,there’s be an appeal made to old boys to fund the boy’s education at Dale.It was always on an individual basis.But we’re now looking at a model that is shaped along the lines of an academy.Our talent from Dale Junior has been for the last 15 years been snatched by other schools.The model is still a work in progress,but needs to be employed asap.
New Maritzburg College Headmaster announced today. Chris Luman, ex SA man now teaching in New Zealand. Matriculated from Wynberg Boys and taught at Queens.
Ye and dont worry i was not at Dale or Queens was at Grey Bloem
Why schools need bursaries?
Prime example i will mention is at Queens who this last year who had a centre playing in Under 13A who ye scored 57 tries is one season 8 of those being at Junior Craven Week and what happens four scholarship offers from 4 top schools in SA.
And what saved the day for this boy staying at Queens is there new busary scheme which has also stopped the departure of there Under 16A lock which is a big turn around for the school after 15 years of being plundered by school like St Andrews and co.
Just go and have alook at how many Ex Queens/Dale boys have worn the Selborne/Grey PE/St Andrews first team jersey,s in the last 10 years and you will see what i mean.
@Playa: Agree with you there the whole bursary/sponsership thing is good but must be handle in the correct way if a school gives a kid a busary it should be kept or paid back one of the two.
I am not sure what position Dale is in to give out busaries but i think it would help them if they came up with a scheme, maybe some thing like what Queens are doing which will reap rewards even if it takes time.
@Pedantic:
Dont think he will get a chance at flank whilst at DHS though, the team currently has 3 provincial players at loose forward and were the backbone of the team so its hard to put him there whilst theres also a settled hooker in the team.
Maybe at club level he can be played there…
@GreenBlooded:
Yes thats true which is why its so hard for some of the other schools to keep their Afrikaans boys.
Doesnt matter though, all the same to me…
@Pedantic: The reason I said 8 was that I’m not sure he has the speed for a flank – certainly not when I coached him but maybe that has changed. I agree that he ticks all the boxes for hooker – he’s another Bismark – but I wonder how that will change with the new scrum laws? As Horsey points out – if he has his old man’s genes I don’t think he will have a size problem. I reckon he could be great as an 8 with the new scrum laws.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Yaaaaawwwwwwnnnnnn.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: & GreenBlooded – At this stage there is no doubt his best position is hooker – he just ticks all the boxes for the position – nice and physical upfront, great lineout thrower and the extra loosie on the field with an incredible workrate.
At this stage he doesn’t look like he’ll grow into a #8 at the highest level – possibly a nice flanker though.
@Horsie, let’s just say if I was an Afrikaans kid in Durban or KZN, if I did not go to a co-ed Afrikaans school the next option would be Glenwood, with a large part of the BE being Afrikaans kids. Also Sean Erasmus and co are fluent. It’s only natural to go where you feel comfortable and your team mates can speak the language, probably a huge reason why Marne chose Glenwood. That said, I don’t like the fact that Glenwood has become more Afrikaans purely because it’s an English medium school. Lessons are in English so all the boys should be able to converse in English fluently. That said, DHS seems to like the Eastern Cape kids, even more than Glenwood…
@GreenBlooded:
Yes its early but from all the other props I’ve seen in U14 thus far he has been one of the very impressive ones…
Hopefully he just develops like how he should be. If he has his dads genes then he will be a very big guy by matric.
Everyone is trying to take from each other right now but there’s one specific school that absolutely loves taking the Afrikaans boys from other schools…
@HORSEFLY NO.1: A bit early to start punting an U14 for and U18 craven week berth. We all know that things change radically between U14 and open.
So there is more than 1 school looking to poach DHS boys then?
@GreenBlooded:
Understandable. Maybe he will become a bit of a Webster where he will play prop then make KZN Schools in another and play for his school in another position.
Maybe he can play no.8 for club but certainly not at school.the kid who plays 8th man is very good and my bet for KZN Schools…
I do know that he’s a wanted lad though but I’m sure you’d never believe me even if I told you which school/s wanted him…
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Eish – difficult question. He played hooker for me and he was certainly very effective there – like I said his whole game reminds me of Bismark, but I do wonder if his massive contribution in general play and at the breakdown would not be better served by putting him at 8 where he can get away from the set piece quicker. I’ve also seen him play at 10 and 12 but for me he definately belongs up front.
Would be interested in Pedantic’s opinion on this – he has also coached him.
@GreenBlooded:
What do you think is his best position though? I see he has been played everywhere
@HORSEFLY NO.1: He reminds me a lot of Bismark.
@star:
Yip.whatever issues they are will needed to be sorted out very quickly!
@greenblooded
I watched him play for DHS this year,he is very hard to put down.Great prospect and I’m hoping DHS will be able to hold on to him as he was part of the very good U14A side this year!
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Unbeleiveable player – hard as nails. I coached him last season. Watch out for his little brother who is currently U8. If his team scores 10 tries in a match you can quite safely assume that he scored 8 of them. Also going to be an incredible talent one day.
@ Horsefly-I have spoken to two people with serious connections at DHS and neither denied the story.This does not mean that it will come to pass but does suggest there is a lot of unhappiness with the current issues which need to be sorted out.
@GreenBlooded:
Yes well Glenwood is our favourite villian.some do take it too far but you will find that half of the stuff we say about GWD is true, just not much evidence to defend it. Some of the bloggers phone the coaches/inside men and believe all they say but I do believe that an inside guy does do all he can to protect his school!!
RE the fixture
I only said what I said because of what I read on twitter. A couple of other sources from DHS have said its true citing “a lot of things” as the reason. I would imagine that the two schools would want to find peace in the situation which is why not much has been said
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Nah – not really. There are a few bloggers who have a clear agenda to discredit Glenwood at every opportunity. If you go back and read all their posts you will see this sentiment. Hell – some guys you never hear from unless there is some juicy Glenwood story doing the rounds. Hi Beast.
Speaking of which – still no big announcement about DHS boycotting the Glenwood fixtures. Is it happening or were you just causing kak?
@NW_Knight:
Look @rugbynewssa.co.za and you will see that the NW boys interviewed are quite confident with one stating that they’ve achieved more in pee-season than they have in the past couple of years.
Also well done to this DHS U14 player for his club achievement!
http://www.rugbynewssa.co.za/home-page/under-14-player-of-the-year.html
@oldschool
Yes there’s way more to it but I doubt anyone would realistically deny what I said. Give me anything to make my statement false,don’t just leave your bitterness hanging…
@NW Knight
Don’t worry about GreenBlooded, if you aren’t for Glenwood you are basically an enemy of the state!
some of us are just too vainglorious
Like the blind leading the blind – and it’s all one person
@Green Hopper: again i got it wrong it was for NW night and NOT you greenblooded
@GreenBlooded: sorry was meant for . NW knight not u
@Green Hopper: Back from the docks? Don’t get loaded there, hey.
@Green Hopper: Huh?? I think I probably have the record for comments on that thread.
@GreenBlooded: tell me something , why have you refrained from commenting on the NW blog??? something amiss?? where there is smoke there is normally fire?????
@NW_Knight: “arguably the top rugby school” for a Northwood support you sure know a lot about the GW sides , you been shopping there lately
And not arguably the best , They are the best side
Again you said it , look at Gr10 to find the next NW team
@GreenBlooded: never a truer word spoken lol lol
beet by the way my counter isnt working on comments made???
@beet: I agree , but what you need to see , is by definition this is a contract and contracted on behalf of the kid as he legally cant enter into the agreement , BUT he certainly has it discussed with him by his parents before either commit,
If he breaches this expectation we then have the consequences of such breach and this is where we talk about repayment , is not the intent of the scholarship is an offer and an acceptance,
We give you certain benefits with the conclusion that the recipient being 1st team in a few years, simply and at the core is a contract , no being added is the liquidated damages if a breach occurs , at this stage is just repayments , but later it will be more
@Grasshopper: i agree, since i have been having coffee in the wee hours of the morning reading the secret minutes of the I have been given of the NW selection list to be poached from other schools and the budgets available, I saw the organ gram, and saw how parent can be involved in parents committee , now rugby and part of the selection, it pay better and helps with promoting of a family, funny how deep this rot runs
@Andre T: ya i am on a 21.7 shift
@Green Hopper: Believe me, I do not like what is going on.My view is that a kid on a bursary in a school should be off limits to other schools.It’s the “gentlemanly” thing to do.Otherwise we are turning the most innocent format of the game into the dog-eat-dog world that is professional sport.Allowing the “buying” of sponsored boys should come with professional consequences.It is not ideal,but it is only fair.
@Andre T: I think you mis-understood things. The freindship only kicks in if and when you organise the DHS replacement match on 18th May. Otherwise it’s over between us.
You mentioned Helpmekaar can take up the slack with the other matches – does this mean our A teams will play Monnas or Helpmekaar??
@NW_Knight: Not singling Glenwood out. Phuuuuuuleeeeez!!! Your anti-Glenwood stance is the stuff of legend on this blog (and elsewhere). In fact I would say that if the anti-Glenwood society held an AGM you would be elected chairman by a landslide.
@NW_Knight, maybe the match day programme should feature facts like primary school attended, years at the school, bursary on and the usual age, weight, height facts…..that way it’s all transparent. In my day the Glenwood 1st team was pretty much the bunch who started Under13A four years prior…..
@Gungets Tuft: All of them…..20th,21st right through till mid thirties
@Andre T: Aced the 19th then??
@Gungets Tuft: There should be stricter Parental Guidance on here.
I have a headache today. I’m in no good mood and will not disturb the peace today.
Odd how some people believe they know exactly what NW’s strategy is and where players are recruited from. And this while they purport to be from another school
But, on a serious note, one has to wonder how schools would fare if they only offered bursaries to GR8’s. At my last count, there were 2 boys in the GW 1st team this year that started in GR8 (and before the Hoppers go off the deep end, I’m not singling GW out – only that they are arguably the top rugby school – I could also be wrong about exactly how many GR8’s made it to 1st team) I have no doubt that a few others have a number of boys that joined after GR8. Food for thought
@Andre T: Jeeez boet, for a moment there you were so close I thought you might try to slip him the lizzard … this is a family show.
@Grasshopper: It is like any signed agreement. Both parties (school and parent)are only bound by the terms of the written and signed agreement.
I also feel that if the agreement gives the school leeway to retract a bursary should a boy not meet the required standard then on the other end of the scale, the parents should have the same right to bail out if they feel that there is a better offer elsewhere – IOW school not living up to their expectations.
@All, surely there is some labour law stating Under18 children cannot be contracted? If there is a contract with the school then it’s between the kids parents/legal guardian and the school. if that is the case then the parent is liable for any payments etc if leaving.
@Gungets Tuft: What did I do wrong again this time? HotBlooded and I are big buddies now.
@Green Hopper: What you’re doing up so early, mate? You work on the docks?
@Playa: again, we are looking at these kids as professionals, the next thing is the tax man will be looking at this as fringe benefits and like an additional income, if we have all these loans and contracts , as in essences this is what they are they are forms of income to the parents
these days they aren’t being used in the intent that they where originally set up , now kids have CV’s and performance and clinics etc , all added, its like job hunting
@ beet, I think that there is lots to consider here,
If we look at the business strategy that Northwood have now adopted , I would be wary if I was any school with a grade 10 that is on bursary /scholarship as they have the ability to now take the pick of the players
Schools offer these at grade 7 , they have no idea what the boy will be like in grade 10 , so any clever think school would look at grade 10 players , just before the “cut off’ of grade 11 , and sufficient time to legally play g1st team, they have wasted money of bad choices and are reasonably ensured that the players are capable. Makes good business sense, doesn’t it , as you have stated , 1st team results are what counts , and if you let the other schools spend the money in investing , wait till grade 10 , take the player as if he moves after that he doesn’t meet the criteria of the Headmaster agreement and thus cant play 1st team , so it’s a win win
@CyndiAtRugby: agreed
However when we really look at this it is about contracts and professionalism, much has been written here about its school boys, I have stated that these boys if in these type of contract s, or whatever they are named, are open to criticisms, like any professional player
@HORSEFLY NO.1: horsey, mezuzah, all you do is go ooooooooooon about your representatives. It’s more than that bud, way more than that. Scraping here, it’s the same old tune, every day!
Schools with most SA Schools cricketers here:
http://www.schoolsportsnews.co.za/cricket/schools-with-the-most-sa-schools-caps/
SA’s best ever cricketing school in 4th place,3 cricketers from 1st place. Hopefully with 4 boys in KZN U19 squad we can have at least 1 SA Schools cricketer this year like last year!!!
the point of a scholarship (from Kearsneys perspective) is to offer boys the chance to recieve a world class education from arguably the greatest school in the world ….in return we ask the boy to ahieve in the class room , on the rugby field , on the cricket pitch , in the pool , on the hockey astro , in the school play and choir ….also his parents must operate the food tables at all the events , he must be well mannered and good humoured , he most give up his free time to assist the elderly and the needy and must encourage his peers in all aspects of school life ….is this to much to ask ?????
The whole bursary thing will come to a crash one day as all it does it push up the cost to the parents whose kids arent on bursaries. Think about it logically where would tehse kids go to school if bursaries werent on offer. Do you think the likes of westville, college, kearsney, hilton etc not be attended if they didnt offer burasaries?
Hahahahaha
this blog is only short of Speartackle!
I have dozens of children representative of every cultural, colour and language group in SA. I have an old Jetta, 4 Tshirts, 5 underpants,3 shorts. I also have one pair of longs for church. All “our” kids are needy, most orphans. I did have a fancy 4×4 and an overseas house but gave it away. I now await offers of bursaries. They, the children, would be quite happy to travel and none are averse to the wind/cold/rain in the Cape, wind in the EC or the heat and stench in Durban.
@Andre T: Man, you say I’m volatile, but sometimes you can really be a rude fuck. Read my post again, I tried to explain what the criteria for a bursary should be and that you should not set much store by appearances. Certainly not referring to myself, so poor I can’t even play the cashmere sport of golf as a hobby.
@Andre T: Get a room you two. How many times do we have to tell you that the kids visit this blog.
@GreenBlooded: Tjaa, well said. My only addition is that I think it is also unfair to put the kid under that much pressure. Think of a 100% to Clifton (86K a year) or Kearsney (R140K a year), that is a lot of money for a 15 year old kid to be “paid” to perform at rugby. It would be a rare parent indeed who does not mentin it from time to time. Hell, I have done if with my lightie – told him that to stay at College he has to get certain academic results (well out of the Malema School of woodwork) or I will bring him home to the local school, save R36K a year in boarding and hire a full time tutor from 2:30 – 5pm every day. It worked – his year end results are between 15% and 25% higher than 1/2 year (Sorry Northwood – I used you okes as the threat
)
@Andre T: Now your invitation to stay at your place makes sense.
I’m outta here now. The golf course(will pay my own green fees) is calling. Will play with my own Callaway irons and driver, my own Footjoy shoes and my own Srixon Z Star Tour Yellow balls and on my Yamaha Golf Cart I inherited from my dad.
@GreenBlooded: I love you
@Andre T: You mean you didn’t like me before? :sad:
@Andre T: You should probably know because it all started up there in teh Wes-Rand years ago. Fortunatly boys in Paarl is there because they want to go there and applied to go there.
@GreenBlooded: It sounds too good to be true Blooded. All of a sudden I suddenly like you and Glenwood. May the Beast be with you.
I don’t think Monnas can field more than 18-20 teams but we can get Helpmekaar to Help out.
@Andre T: I agree with you mate. When you pay the fees yourself, nobody can tell you what sports you will and will not play, what you may and may not do after hours and what you must and must not do to maintain your bursary. When you pay your own fees, the school cannot hold you over a barrel and you do not end up selling your kid into slavery and end up fretting for the next 5 years that you may need to mortgage the wife and car to pay the fees if the lighty doesn’t perform. Screw that.
Now how about setting up that return fixture? We apparently have 18 May free. Can Monna’s offer a full set of fixtures without staggers? We will travel to the Wes Rand (taking all neccessary security measures) play you on your home turf and then we host you 2 weeks later? How about it?
@Ploegskaar: I don’t care who you sponsor or where your flat is, 80% of these Super School imports come from wealthy/school fee affordable households. These parents sell their children. Hang hulle op in eensame tronkselle……aan hul bra strappe of New Freedom toutjies.
@Andre T: You will be suprized how few learners are actually helped…Pride still has its place.
@Andre T: No man T, any poephol can afford a spiffy car if either purchased on residual or through a company, so what you drive is definitely not the mark of a man. I know many a man wearing a 2 tone Cape Union Mart outfit and driving a Hilux that owns more land than the government and has a flat in the south of Spain.
I think that some of the kids see the bursaries as their rights and not a privelege which is what it is. If you are offered a bursary by 4 different schools and choose one,you can’t just leave like that just because you feel like it.
I do think that a lot of the schools have now put in repayment policies though, not mentioning any names but I do know this.
@BoishaaiPa: We are mostly on the same page, although your PB Academy sounds suspisiously similar to the old Transvaal Players Trust pre-95. Everybody was an amateur, but some just more so than others…
Maybe I am from the old school, but personally I prefer that bursaries should be earned, as was the case when I was at school and we could only receive bursaries in the old standard 9 and 10. At the moment I offer a bursary along these lines for a grade 12 learner that excelled academically in their grade 11 year at my Alma Mater and the decision is always clear-cut as the relevant pupil had earned it.
When poaching/recruiting/bursaries come to mind at 1st team level schools DO NOT care a flying F what the social status of the player’s parents is. Its about getting the boy enrolled and into the team. When it comes to the borderline potentially talented kid then this crap of evaluating the parents’ income comes into play.
Prove me wrong!!!
@BoishaaiPa: How many of the less than 100% bursaries come from wealthy backgrounds? Being a stats freak, perhaps at the 2 Paarl festivals in April, you should do a quick survey and establish the total value of the vehicles in and around the schools. You’ll be able to feed Sumatra for a few decades.
@Andre T: Shows you what you know my friend…NONE of the recepients of 100% old boys bursaries is from wealthy backgrounds. If a kid from a wealthy family makes provincial colours is he not allowed to apply for aid like any other?..It is up to the Academy to decide who is worthy of receiving such aid.
@GreenBlooded: Of course that is not due to lack of performance, that is the risk the Academy accepts and will still fullfill its commitment. It happend 3 years ago where a promising u/13 WP captain that was helped with his accomodation fees injured his back so badly at u/16 level that he could no longer continue playing rugby. His fees was still paid for and he ended up a prefect and contributed in other ways to the school.
I dont know how it works in other schools.
@BoishaaiPa: Bollocks man, 80% of the ‘bursary/poached/recruited’ players at the Super Schools come from wealthy backgrounds. Look at the parents’cars the boys get into at the festivals like Kearsney/WK and Craven Week.
That’s why they’re so rich…….too stingy to pay their children’s school fees. Shame on them.
@BoishaaiPa: How does it work if a kid get’s seriously injured playing sport for the school? Does he forfeit his assistance if he is not able to play? If so this would be grossly unfair to the kid. How does it work at other schools?
Just as there should be repercussions for a bursary sponsor pulling out while the recipient is meeting their side of the bargain, the same should apply for a boy not meeting the full term of their bursary.
With the way things are being professionalised in schoolboy rugby,this move should be treated like any other club/province/franchise move in the professional game.If a school wants a sponsored kid that badly,they should ‘buy’ him out of their bursary.The boy was sponsored with a long term view of him representing the 1st XV,with the hope of representing the school at provincial level one day as well.This,in the case in point,has not been met.
My view is that schools who approach a boy on a bursary,must buy him out.Either that,or the parents who have benefited at no cost,must foot the bill for that benefit.
@Andre T: Good for you if you can do it..that gives another oppertunity for 4 other kids…..some parents also want the best for their kids but cannot always afford it, so do not bash them for accepting either a bursary or financial help..That way society in general benefits.
@Andre T: It’s easy when you are loaded.
@Ploegskaar: PBH as school doesnt have bursaries or offers bursaries. The Paarl Boys Academy run by the Old Boys union offer certain financial help to learners who first have to apply to the school for acceptance. Once you have been accepted via normal school procedures ie on academic and other grounds, you may apply for assistance. There is no gaurentee that you will be succesfull though. They do award certain small (10%-20%) contributions to accomodation fees etc for Academic and/or Provincial sport achievements. There is however certainly a perfomance clause and should you not produce, you will forfeit the financial assistance. There is some old boys who offer 100% bursaries via the Academy to under privilaged and PDI’s..one such is the Corne Krige bursary. None of these recipiants have ever failed matric of did not contribute in one way or another to the school…So, to answer your question…if someone thus do not live up to expectation as agreed upon, they will forfeit any financial assistance yes.
Loyalty is most definatly not a commodity that can be bought, but if a school shows faith in helping out with bursary or financial aid, that faith should be returned….
Shame on all of you who sell your children to the highest bidder.
@star: N-O-B-O-D-Y
@ AT- I will OWN you on the golf course
None of my 4 children( all of them play(ed) more than one sport at provincial level will ever be on a scholarship/bursary whatever you want to call it. I pay my school fees every month. NOBODY OWNS ME OR MY CHILDREN. We go where we want to. We do what we want to.
@BoishaaiPa: Agreed. All for paying back. There has to be accountability.
@Gungets Tuft: Agreed. Selfish act that has deprived a more deserving kid.
@Ploegskaar: My nickname was Bata at school.
@BOG: If those were indeed his subjects, growing up as a sensitive laaitie in Vrede must have been very though for him….
@BOG: Clearly most of the guys in the Grey 1st team this year could not count…..
@ Gungets But is that not exactly why it is so sensitive and needs to properly handled in a transparent manner.I think KC make you pay 50% of your bursary back on the basis that you have taken an opportunity away from another kid and there has to be accountability.That is why the matter must not be trivalised and boundaries respected.The famous old saying “where there is smoke there is fire” could not be more apt in the current circumstances.
@BoishaaiPa: For interest sake, what happens at PBH if an academic or sports bursary holder loses form or becomes a tikkop that sells his parents’ furniture and contributes nothing to the school? Would he lose the bursary?
With regards to your comment on loyalty, you make it sound like a commodity that can be bought (much like Andre T’s virginity), although I am sure that is not your intention.
This issue has 2 basic parts – firstly the legality and secondly, the ethics.
From a legal point of view, I am rather surprised that schools will offer bursaries without any standard/requirements. Most academic scholarships have performance standards and so should sports bursaries. This is standard practice in business and is usually carefully explained by the issuing/offering school.
From an ethics point of view – I will still refer you to the parents and the lessons they are teaching their kids. Call me old fashioned but school pride, loyalty, etc cannot be bought.
The solution is simple.Only academic bursaries- as at Grey. If he cannot count he cannot play rugby.
@Ploegskaar: @BoishaaiPa: He did his matric in Vrede with Home Economics, Typing and Shorthand as his favourite subjects
I think there is something that is even more important to consider.
A school offers a bursary to a youngster in the hope that they will see 5 years of schooling and also sport from the young man. Then in the middle of that, in some cases in mid year, kids decide to leave. Assuming that all is kosher, obviously they must be allowed to do what they like. Financial considerations apart – the school the kid is leaving is left with an open “scholarship” but also a hole in a grade where it is not that easy to fill with a deserving candidate. Apply this to the case from this year. beginning of the 3rd term a kid just does not pitch up – no terms notice (no financial penalty as they were on scholarship anyway), but nobody to come in and take his place at short notice. The chances of finding a 1.9m promising lock in Grade 9 – next to nothing unless we also go on the hunt and convince a kid to come in. Assuming that we do not poach from local schools, this means a kid from out of town. It has also denied a promising kid the opportunity of being at a the school from day 1 in grade 8, and getting that new kid experience.
It’s bigger than the money, it can be seen as plain selfish as well.
@Ploegskaar:Of Course the school is not gaurenteed a success at Gr11/12, but at the least they can expect loyalty and participation….”Shaking hands and moving on” means no loyalty or backbone in my book..you finish what you started…The oppertunity was granted and certain payback is expected, of which loyalty is but one. If you are looking for greener pastures, sure, by all means move on, but dont expect a freebie then.
@BoishaaiPa: I see your point, but even then there is no guarenteed return on a bursary/investment in any event, as you are effectively taking a punt on primary school sports and academic potential, which often does not translate into anything in high school anyway. Maybe we are just looking at this from different angles, where you feel that it should be a privilage for a learner to hypothetically attend PBH, whereas I used to feel it was a privilage for my school to have me as a learner! You pay your dues while there, both parties benefit, and if either wants to end the contract you shake hands and move on. I think the crux of the matter is that bursaries should maybe only be awarded based on what a pupil has achieved, as opposed to what they may achieve?
@Andre T: Just joking, those marks are not bad for the pre-94 era, probably worth a full house and T10 in the country today when I look at what my kids do at school. All the best for the golf, weather not looking too bad, but the wind has blown all my container vessels past Marion Island, with much the same on the cards for the weekend, so leave your toupet at home.
@Ploegskaar: I fail to see how a school can benefit unless the boy delivers at 1st team level, academics level or leadership level. Most of this is only achieved in Gr11 and Gr12 when the positives learned in the formative years is then “re-payed” in either of the three disciplines or all three. The parents received the benefit of not having to pay any school or boarding fees PLUS the benefit of good education and coaching and if they decide to move school after Gr10, what actual benefit did the school receive back?…
@BoishaaiPa: Jy het altyd storietjies, van daai dag in die biertent by die 0/16 week in Paarl. Ek byt nie…..net flippen kommin.
@Ploegskaar: Freakish my friend if you know how many days I actually spent in school compared to on the sports grounds.
@BoishaaiPa: Unless a specific time-frame is stipulated as part of a bursary agreement, which I doubt it is at the moment, said bursary should be viewed as a short term or fixed term annual contract for services rendered during the pupil’s stay at the school. Both parties did after all benefit from the bursary recipient’s period of stay and if the latter decides to job-hop at the end of the school-year/contract period, there is certainly no payback obligation in my opinion.
@Andre T: Think I will phone my friend at Devonvale and get your tee-times cancelled!..or better..get you shoved in behind the slowest old lady 4-ball!…lol
@Ploegskaar: I think he is confusing Business Economics with Home Economics…
@Andre T: Well, if it isnt for academics they will find a reason to exclude you anyway!….Who is ou Dikkes?…I think you are confusing me with someone else!…Might take the player’s mom through on Sunday, but still not sure as it is also my wife’s birthday…
@Andre T: Business Economics was only offered as a standard grade subject pre-94 ou trilkop, and pretty sure you would have had English second language HG. Good marks, but certainly not freakish.
@BoishaaiPa: Full university exemption china.
Afr – B
Eng – B
Maths – D
Accountancy – A
Business Economics – A
Economics – C
All higher grade……an absolute freak.
Flying in Kulula on Friday morning. Arriving at 08h10. Staying at Devonvale Golf and Wine Estate. Teeing off at Devonvale: Friday 13h22 and Saturday 12h15. Will be at Paarl GC from 09h00 on Sunday joining the boys for official practise round and then from Monday 07h00 daily.
Hoping to see you there ou dikkes.
@Andre T: The problem is that any decent school will first focus on academics and make sure you adhere to certain standards…that will thus immediatly exclude you from some schools and you will have to search for other schools to go and play Rugby, Cricket and Tennis!
When I was at school I was such a gifted sportsman with provincial colours in 5 sports. I think I would have had 5 bursaries in my matric year from separate schools. I would have spent my matric in the following manner.
Athletics season – Monnas
Cricket season – Paarl Boishaai
Rugby season – Grey College
Tennis season – Affies
Golf season – Strand High School
What a jol I would have had. Some of the seasons overvleuel so I would have been in up to 3 different schools per week. No rest for the wicked.
I believe that for every decision there is a consequence. If someone decided to accept a bursary at a particular school they should be held responsible to see that the conditions of the bursary is met.