| TIME | DATE | SCHOOL | SCHOOL | EVENT | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Tue.26Apr | Daniel Pienaar | 29 | 11 | Otto du Plessis | ||
| Wed.27Apr | Hugenote | 22 | 17 | Montagu | Boland Trials | |
| Wed.27Apr | Worcester Gim | 49 | 3 | Gansbaai | Boland Trials | |
| Wed.27Apr | Drostdy | 36 | 30 | Hermanus | Boland Trials | |
| Wed.27Apr | Lichtenburg | 37 | 3 | Noordheuwel | PUK Prestige Reeks Final | |
| Wed.27Apr | Zwartkop | 24 | 10 | Potch Volkskool | PUK Prestige Reeks 3/4 p/off | |
| Wed.27Apr | Middelburg | 29 | 26 | Wonderboom | PUK Prestige Reeks 5/6 p/off | |
| Wed.27Apr | HTS Witbank | 24 | 17 | Potch Gim | ||
| Wed.27Apr | Driehoek | 50 | 28 | Die Anker | ||
| Thu.28Apr | Kingswood | 37 | 23 | St Stithians | ||
| Sat.30Apr | Japanese Team | 3 | 52 | Glenwood | SANIX tour | |
| Sat.30Apr | Japanese Team | 0 | 14 | Glenwood | SANIX tour | |
| Sat.30Apr | Kearsney | 64 | 22 | Michaelhouse | ||
| Sat.30Apr | St Charles | 0 | 32 | Hilton | ||
| Sat.30Apr | DHS | 60 | 0 | Ithembelihle | Grey PE Festival | |
| Sat.30Apr | Muir | 3 | 11 | Hudson Park | Grey PE Festival | |
| Sat.30Apr | Framesby | 20 | 20 | St Alban’s | Grey PE Festival | |
| Sat.30Apr | Dale | 74 | 0 | St David’s | Grey PE Festival | |
| Sat.30Apr | Stirling | 17 | 22 | Goudveld | Grey PE Festival | |
| Sat.30Apr | Daniel Pienaar | 28 | 6 | Graeme | Grey PE Festival | |
| Sat.30Apr | Queen’s | 40 | 18 | Pearson | Grey PE Festival | |
| Sat.30Apr | Grey HS | 27 | 8 | Parktown | Grey PE Festival | |
| Sat.30Apr | Worcester Gim | 29 | 3 | Schoonspruit | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Sat.30Apr | Nico Malan | 10 | 43 | Voortrekker (Beth) | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Sat.30Apr | Lagenhoven Gim | 10 | 22 | De Kuilen | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Sat.30Apr | Brackenfell | 22 | 25 | Ben Vorster | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Sat.30Apr | Oudtshoorn | 20 | 7 | Bonnievale | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Sat.30Apr | Drostdy | 32 | 18 | Jim Fouche | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Sat.30Apr | Marlow | 20 | 24 | Duineveld | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Sat.30Apr | Brandwag | 6 | 38 | Helpmekaar | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Sat.30Apr | EG Jansen | 19 | 17 | Louis Botha | Wildeklawer | |
| Sat.30Apr | Welkom Gim | 15 | 20 | Oakdale | Wildeklawer | |
| Sat.30Apr | Stellenberg | 27 | 19 | Noord-Kaap | Wildeklawer | |
| Sat.30Apr | Monument | 3 | 3 | Selborne | Wildeklawer | |
| Sat.30Apr | HTS Middelburg | 12 | 31 | Paul Roos | Wildeklawer | |
| Sat.30Apr | Menlopark | 11 | 45 | Paarl Gim | Wildeklawer | |
| Sat.30Apr | Waterkloof | 5 | 51 | HJS Paarl BH | Wildeklawer | |
| Sat.30Apr | Garsfontein | 13 | 31 | Grey College | Wildeklawer | |
| Sat.30Apr | Affies | 34 | 7 | Outeniqua | Wildeklawer | |
| Sat.30Apr | Diamantveld | 17 | 12 | Boland Landbou | Wildeklawer | |
| Sat.30Apr | St Andrew’s | 59 | 24 | St Stithians | ||
| Sat.30Apr | Tygerberg | 17 | 14 | Upington | Wynberg 175 | |
| Sat.30Apr | Parel Vallei | 23 | 22 | Durbanville | Wynberg 175 | |
| Sat.30Apr | Bellville | 21 | 17 | Walvis Bay | Wynberg 175 | |
| Sat.30Apr | Hugenote | 15 | 60 | Jeppe | Wynberg 175 | |
| Sat.30Apr | Rondebosch | 38 | 12 | KES | Wynberg 175 | |
| Sat.30Apr | Bishops | 14 | 17 | Windhoek HS | Wynberg 175 | |
| Sat.30Apr | Wynberg | 38 | 12 | St John’s | Wynberg 175 | |
| Sat.30Apr | SACS | 27 | 20 | Maritzburg College | Wynberg 175 | |
| Mon.02May | St Alban’s | 10 | 10 | Muir | Grey PE Festival | |
| Mon.02May | St David’s | 12 | 12 | Ithembelihle | Grey PE Festival | |
| Mon.02May | Graeme | 19 | 34 | Stirling | Grey PE Festival | |
| Mon.02May | Daniel Pienaar | 15 | 12 | Hudson Park | Grey PE Festival | |
| Mon.02May | Parktown | 36 | 10 | Pearson | Grey PE Festival | |
| Mon.02May | Dale | 64 | 7 | Goudveld | Grey PE Festival | |
| Mon.02May | Framesby | 12 | 20 | Queen’s | Grey PE Festival | |
| Mon.02May | Grey HS | 16 | 7 | DHS | Grey PE Festival | |
| Mon.02May | Ben Vorster | 19 | 5 | Voortrekker (Beth) | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Mon.02May | Schoonspruit | 7 | 22 | Langenhoven Gim | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Mon.02May | Drostdy | 26 | 24 | Helpmekaar | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Mon.02May | De Kuilen | 29 | 5 | Bonnievale | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Mon.02May | Worcester Gim | 32 | 28 | Brackenfell | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Mon.02May | Nico Malan | 17 | 26 | Jim Fouche | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Mon.02May | Duineveld | 29 | 27 | Brandwag | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Mon.02May | Oudtshoorn | 8 | 25 | Marlow | K2 Oudtshoorn | |
| Mon.02May | Noord-Kaap | 34 | 32 | Welkom Gim | Wildeklawer | |
| Mon.02May | Menlopark | 5 | 32 | Paul Roos | Wildeklawer | |
| Mon.02May | EG Jansen | 22 | 38 | Paarl Gim | Wildeklawer | |
| Mon.02May | Louis Botha | 10 | 60 | Selborne | Wildeklawer | |
| Mon.02May | Monument | 25 | 40 | Outeniqua | Wildeklawer | |
| Mon.02May | Garsfontein | 19 | 18 | Stellenberg | Wildeklawer | |
| Mon.02May | HTS Middelburg | 17 | 22 | Diamantveld | Wildeklawer | |
| Mon.02May | Grey College | 48 | 23 | Oakdale | Wildeklawer | |
| Mon.02May | Waterkloof | 20 | 30 | Boland Landbou | Wildeklawer | |
| Mon.02May | Affies | 25 | 29 | HJS Paarl BH | Wildeklawer | |
| Mon.02May | Tygerberg | 7 | 19 | KES | Wynberg 175 | |
| Mon.02May | Hugenote | 10 | 9 | Bellville | Wynberg 175 | |
| Mon.02May | Durbanville | 24 | 26 | St John’s | Wynberg 175 | |
| Mon.02May | Rondebosch | 20 | 18 | Windhoek HS | Wynberg 175 | |
| Mon.02May | Bishops | 24 | 40 | Jeppe | Wynberg 175 | |
| Mon.02May | SACS | 80 | 5 | DF Malan | Wynberg 175 | |
| Mon.02May | Wynberg | 28 | 29 | Maritzburg College | Wynberg 175 | |
| Mon.02May | Parel Vallei | 22 | 27 | Upington | Wynberg 175 |
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@Umtata: Believe me that was all SA Rugby fans. That decision by HM made no sense. Du Toit was a risk whereas Kolisi was in excellent form.
I am not sure I agree fully with you that there is no issue at school level. I see two poles in the rugby transformation debate. There are schools that have and schools that haven’t.
@Playa: Made some excellent points about numbers and the overall rugby pool available. This has obviously made the issue more challenging for some schools.
@BrotherBear: Great question about how the pie is divided in Lions Schools rugby. A few schools such as Jeppe, Helpies have forcefully taken pie away from Monnas. I think this is a good thing and increases the competition for places.
@Umtata: Yeslike! I’d actually blocked that debacle from memory
Rugby in schools is not the issue here. A lot of people on this thread are selectively reading Playa, Roger & Tzavosky’s post to suite their arguments.
When Alberts(Flank) got injured before the Japs game in the WC, HM replaced him with Du Toit(lock) ahead of Kolisi(flank) who was already in the match day 23. Du Toit was not even going to play. Decisions like these are the biggest reason the general public(mostly black) will complain and it will always go back to PA vs PD.
Tsakovsky, I don’t regard SARU as innocent in this whole deal. SARU has a role to play along with government, both local and national. SARU cannot be held responsible for building sportsfields at schools, SARU cannot be held responsible if sport does not form part the school curriculum, SARU cannot be held responsible if teachers are not willing to coach sport, SARU cannot be held responsible if schools show no interest in rugby, but prefer football. The list is endless. There is no point in the parties involved trying to score brownie points off each other. We need an urgent sport indaba to plot our way forward.
@tzavosky: Well said!
@robbie: Yes, firing them is probably a bit over the top, I’ll admit, but I still think they’re co-responsible for this mess. See this article and decide for yourselves (I’ve made a comment on my dealings with them): http://www.rugby365.com/sa-schools/72537-khayelitsha-rugby-programme-beams
SARU has an oversight role to play as the custodians of SA Rugby. As far as I’m aware, every Bok team has to be approved by the SARU president, been like that for years.
Last year Meyer selected Jesse Kriel at centre, whilst he played FB throughout Superugby, but it seemed a masterstroke at the time. Lionel Mapoe got two minutes on the wing to prove what? Next game Mapoe was not even on the bench, but Kriel were moved to the wing against Argentina. What sort of sense does this make, en where was SARU’s president in his oversight role?
Same thing with the RWC squad – Morné Steyn and Zane Kirchner in whilst he could have gone with Jantjies and Mapoe (Lambie and Kriel could both have covered as FB backup) – in my view these are the opportunities you speak of (and definately not quotas).
I’m old enough to have lived through a large part of the Danie Craven era. In 1982 he fired the Bok coach, Nelie Smith (RIP), for the simple reason that he selected the incumbent Bok captain Wynand Claassen for the trials B team. He publicly stated, “You don’t treat a Springbok captain like that.” He also vetoed the Bok selection of Burger Geldenhuys for striking and fracturing the jaw of 1986 NZ Cavaliers captain, Andy Dalton.
That’s the type of incisive leadership that SARU is in desperate need of, in my view.
I cannot for the life of me comprehend what the sacking of the top echelon of SARU will achieve. Is somebody at SARU preventing highly talented black players from playing ? I have no special love for SARU, but we need to really think about the root causes of a lack of representitivity before we mouth off about matters. Neither will get anywhere by the pot calling the kettle back.
We need opportunities, not quotas. A quota, by definition, implies a lack of ability that needs to be addressed on another basis other that merit. Our disadvantaged players do not lack ability, but opportunities. You cannot address the lack of opportunities by force feeding sport with quotas.
@Ludz: His decree only really affects the possibility of hosting the 2023 WC from what I can gather. It would be really sad that a more representative team, of which I’m more optimistic of achieving than others, could be denied of playing in front of home crowds.
That’s punishing the wrong people. He should rather have fired the top echelon of SARU for their ineptness!
@BOG: I think GCB are a progressive school.They manage what’s in their control and are a great South African school.I think your emotions for the better of my point
It is unfortunate that Mbalula’s decision has seen us deviate from the real issue, I think it was a rash decision by Mbalula, but to say our rugby is transformed is very incorrect. We are still a little far off from that point.
@Grasshopper: I have a 5 year old son.Do you think I like the idea that even if he plays better than Schalks son at WP some day he might be overlooked because he’s 2kg short of optimal weight and can’t speak Afrikaans?
@BOG: My point was there are far less of them then white.Regardless of how many I think there are.If for example I think there are 30% black boys….there probably aren’t more than 40%.And of those…probably 98% play another sport in winter besides rugby.Making a very small population available for rugby.Take it to even 50% bkack which isnt the case and my point is still valid
@Roger: In the backs it hs some valid grounds, although F Venter will never play above Jessie at 13 and I rate him much higher than Mapoe. JP is over the hill just like Schalk. Im a big provnce fan and it is so sad to see Schalk being a shadow of himself. This is his good bye year and it cant come to an end fast enough. Having watched to many Stormers games I can tell you that you cant put Carr,Kolisi and Notshe in same class as Kriel and Whiteley. Tight forwards is where your side will struggle a bit
Beast plays loosehead btw.
@Playa: Point im trying to make, there will be damage to a team if you pick an inferior player. Even 5% or whatever means of measure you want will have an impact on a teams performance.
I have a 1 year old son, do you think I like the idea that one day he might not make a team because he is white. No, hence why quotas are just wrong. I’m actually thinking of moving back to the UK so my kids have equal opportunity vs black, yellow, brown etc. Merit is the only way one can choose in sport. I actually reckon countries should boycott playing SA until teams are picked on merit only. My Bok side now.
15) Kolbe
14) Combrinck/Zas
13) Mapoe
12) De Allende
11) Mvovo/Senatla
10) Jantjes
9) de Klerk/Paige
8) Whiteley (Captain)
7) Kriel/Notshe
6) Carr/Kolisi
5) PSDT
4) Etzebeth
3) T Du Toit
2) Marx/Scarra
1) Malherbe/Nyakane
I rate Notshe, he has some serious skills. This would be on merit pick…
@Playa: That was because Heyneke was an idiot. All of those players should have played more. Mahoje too.
@Playa: No, the only thing that I was trying to point out, was that GCB may have more kids of “colour” than what you think- and extremely diverse, by all accounts- Xhosa, Zulu, Pedi, Sotho, Chinese, Indian, Tswana, “Coloured”—- Even from Lesotho itself.
@BOG: Maybe you need to read Tang’s question to get context of my answer. I do not understand what your problem is with my comment, as you seem to be saying exactly what I had said. Let me quote a sentence from that post:
” It wouldn’t make sense to force a Grey Bloem/Affies, where not only does the school have a small percentage of black boys, but those who are there prefer to partake in other sports”
In short, I am saying it is a combination of having small numbers of black boys, AND those who are at the schools choosing other sports, eg soccer – something you corroborate. GCB HAS NO OBLIGATION TO INCREASE THEIR BLACK RUGBY PLAYING POPULATION…in fact NO SCHOOL DOES.No school should ever be forced to.
P.S. I have a hereditary high blood pressure condition, don’t insult me b diagnosing me with that low blood ailment
@Playa: No, I have not missed your point. My comments were in response to your remarks about GCB and Affies, further up. I cant speak for Affies, or for GCB for that matter, but I assume that GCB, being dual medium, has more “black” kids than Affies. I said earlier that the rugby teams at Grey- and Im guessing, are probably 98 % white, while the soccer teams are 98% black. Its their natural democratic choice. If they were compelled to “transform” both codes, they would have to import black rugby playing kids from CT or KWT (for you low blood pressure problem) and white soccer playing kids from St Davids. Now, would that not be social engineering in the extreme?
@BOG: I suspect you totally missed my point Oom. Breathe then read again, you might find that we actually agree on something.
On Desai’s point – I agree with him, especially when talking about government’s hypocrisy. I will speak on rugby grounds as it is what I am familiar with and having been involved in all things ‘development’ for the last 16 years. Equalling the playing fields at school/junior level is a government duty first and for most, as people who have the biggest interest. They have failed…dismally. They offer zero support, where there is no benefit to them. Watch the department’s flags float at every sporting event in the townships in the months leading up to elections.
Less so has SARU (and unions) with their fronting – but I wont go there. It is a bit unfair, I’ll admit to have quotas at schoolboy level.
The trouble for me is these boys straight out of high school, who are brilliant schoolboy centers, flyhalves, scrumhalves, and arrive at a union, get TOLD that they are wings, and need to start learning Afrikaans if they want to graduate from holding tackle bags – see for me that is where transformation at senior level needs to start. There is no level playing ground when instructions and tips are given in a language I do not understand, and I have to start my professional career in a position I have never played, in hope that Kleinjan will get injured, and maybe, just maybe I’ll get an opportunity at the flyhalf position I played at Craven Week.
As sensical as Desai’s words are – he missed this.
@Playa: Take out W le Roux and put in P Lambie
@Playa: How many “black” kids do you think, are at GCB? Obviously more than what you think. Have you seen the composition of the soccer sides? Do you think that soccer as a sport should be dropped, hoping that they would then take up rugby? Soccer has been with the school since I can remember (and hockey)
@BrotherBear: thinking player and springbok player are mutually exclusive…so on that account, Kolisi fits the bill
On a serious note, take the side below, (some names courtesy of Roger), as a hypothetical team:
Starting-
J Kriel
R Combrinck
L Mapoe
D De Allende
L Mvovo
E Jantjies
F de Klerk
W Whitley
J Kriel
S Kolisi
PS Du Toit
E Etzebeth
T Matariwa
S Ntubeni
T Nyakane
(7 POC start, excluding De Allende;8 if you choose to include him)
Bench-
W le Roux
C Oosthuizen
J Redelynhuys
R Paige
L de Jaager
A Strauss
J De Jongh
N Carr
(3 POC on Bench)
@Umtata: Sure, transformation, along with destruction, will happen. Why would sport and SA be an exception? Ashwin Desai makes the point in the RDM that “transformation” without nutrition and infrastructure at the schools, it would be meaningless, and in both of these areas, which is the responsibility of a government, the ANC has failed and done so dismally. So, they are trying to cover up two of their many failures and sport must pay the price. Fools paradise advance !! Soon you can look forward to competing in the 3 Nations, with Zim and Namibia.
@BrotherBear: we can argue all day over the merits of Schalk Burger versus (for eg) Jean Deysel but do you agree that on the whole team A and B are very closely matched?
BTW – I used local players only as I think so will AC against Ireland
Schalk Burger should have retired.
@tzavosky: and Schalk Britz over Ntubeni??
@Playa: spot on – The WC selections and the way Kolisi and Paige were played left a very bitter taste ……. and unfortunately when the chips are down, most coaches revert to type which is exactly what HM did.
@CharlesZA:
W Le Roux / C Kolbe
R Combrinck / JP Pietersen
F Venter / L Mapoe
P Jordaan / D De Allende
J Kriel / L Mvovo
P Lambie / E Jantjies
F De Klerk / R Paige
W Whitley / N Carr
J Kriel / S Kolisi
S Burger / O Mohoje
PS Du Toit / PS Du Toit
E Etzebeth / E Etzebeth
C Oosthuizen / T Matariwa
A Strauss / S Ntubeni
J Redelynhuys / T Nyakane
Tighthead prop is an issue for the POC (but is true for SA in general) as is outside centre for the whiteys.
@Playa: that call will depend on which players he selects, and for that matter it does not really matter what colour they are – criteria must be the same.
Example how opinions can differ: I also think Kolisi is a very tough and hard player, but he has limited application as he is not a thinking player. Not good enough for Springboks. Schalk should also have retired from international rugby 2 years ago – many players with better qualities recently and presently.
@RugbyDad: I agree with you.
Let me ask you a question. If Allister Coetzee’s starting line-up in June has 7 players of colour; would the consensus (among he general white, and some black rugby fanatics) be that he is picking quotas (and trying to appease politicians), or that he is picking players who fit his game plan? Would our discussions here be purely about bad picks, or a colour thing?
Bear in mind he used to pick 6/7/8 players of colour in his Stormers sides when he was in charge there.
@RugbyDad: The classic example for me was Zane Kirchner last year. Meyer had ample FB backup for Willie le Roux in Lambie and Jesse Kriel, so why take him?
Had he left out Morné Steyn and Kirchner for Jantjies and Mapoe, it would have made a lot more rugby sense to me.
@Playa: Your point sounds valid with the comparisons you make, but I would contend that I would rather have Faf than Ruan Pienaar. Maybe I would also not have put Scarra or Schalk Brits. What I am saying is that when bad selections are made, sometimes colour has nothing to do with it. Selectors and coaches prefer certain players because they fit into the game plan etc. Doesn’t always have to be colour.
@Grasshopper: We would all be in agreement on this discussion if Jean de Villiers had been left home during last year’s RWC and Lionel Mapoe had at least made the squad, or if Siya Kolisi had been given more than just 5 minutes at the RWC, when Schalk featured more as a flyhalf than anything, or if instead of bringing in Schalk Britz from the Wilderness, Scarra had gotten a chance instead, how about Rudi Page instead of a Ruan Pienaar who has consistently failed in green and gold for almost 10 years!
Simple point is, when there has been an opportunity to play deserving black players, the coaches and selectors have opted to look the other way. Transfomation is not saying because Scarra was a standout hooker 3 seasons ago, he must remain there now – with younger hookers like Marx knocking on the door. It is merely saying play the guys, give them the opportunity when they put their hands up so that they like Matfield, Burger, de Villiers, who well beyond their prime were still being picked infront of (black and white) younger players who are light years better than them – the day we criticise them for being over the hill and stop saying their quotas. This opportunity tends to stand for white players, but unless you’re JP Pietersen or Brian Habana (who happen to play the ‘position traditionally reserved for PD players’), as a player of colour, you can forget.
@CharlesZA: No I don’t think that’s what he meant. Though, I may be debatable when you start factoring time, as we have only seen a few months of Marx at this level. Anyway, to stick to what I understood of Roger’s post – if my interpretation is right, he meant that there would not be any damage in a team if you replaced Scarra with Marx, and neither would the team be materially better (if at all) if the situation was to be reversed. We can argue till kingdom come about that.
@CharlesZA: Have been waiting for some technical comments on the comparison teams. This may become a long thread if we really start diving into it.
@Roger: You saying Scarra as good as Marx?
Would love to see your full side bit think we will disagree on plenty of the players that can be interchanged.
@Roger: Agree that obsession with size is a real issue and limits teams. I also believe that selecting talented “bright” (thinking) players pay dividends. Being able to read opponents and situations crucial to being competitive. Both in planning strategies and calling game plans as well as being able to react to changes in the game.
@Quagga: You are correct w.r.t. team/s make-up last year. Will have to wait and see if sanity prevails this year.
@Playa: Nope, pick on merit…simple! So Gianni from Boishaai is best fullback, pick him. Cabous Eloff at loosehead, pick him. Bugger colour etc, just pick the best…
@Grasshopper: You have got to be joking!
@BrotherBear: My 2 cents re Lions high school teams. In 2016 the Lions sent teams to the youth weeks that were well represented as well as better balanced in terms of individual schools’ performances. Monnas did not dominate those teams, as a number of schools each had a fair number of players. The mix was basically to a large extent between Helpies, KES, Jeppe and then Monnas. Both the u16 Grant Khomo team as well as the Academy side were the unofficial winners of their respective weeks. Obviously there were some players in the Academy side that could have easily been at the GK like Dandré of Monnas and that brilliant Liam vd Bergh of Helpmekaar, but that is sort of part of the landscape we know at the moment and those players were rewarded to a certain extent with selection into the Noordvaal team and even here and there even into the SARU U16 group. I had the privilege of attending both weeks so these are my personal perceptions. I thought the Lions had gone a long way to seek out the best players whilst achieving success in their transformation objectives as well. Some of the so-called ‘quota players’ were actually in my view some of the best performers on the field and all respect to them. The team environments also seemed extremely positive. This same group are now U17 and bar a few exceptions are performing well in their respective schools 1XV teams. Recent results have shown that Helpmekaar and Jeppe are arguably the strongest two teams in JHB in 2016 with Monnas always being a force and KES showing moments of great potential. The expectation would thus be that the 2016 U18 youth week sides would be well represented both in terms of demographics as well as balanced in terms of performing schools. If that is not the case and the teams are dominated by a Monnas stranglehold of sorts and perhaps Jeppe or KES to make up the ‘numbers’ only, it would come as a surprise to me. I personally think the tide has turned in Jo’burg and the Lions u18 challenge at the youth weeks will be all the better for it. Let’s wait and see. Trials were held yesterday to give even more players a stab at selection and further trial dates have been set for the next weeks.
@BrotherBear: comparison is valid though – but you are right maybe I should have used Glenwood vs Grey Bloem as a comparison
Andre Markgraaf?? You joking right! He was worse than Harry and Rudolph! I agree that the talent has always been there – and just imagine if they had got the structures and mentality right 20 years ago how much wider that talent pool would be? I watched Affies v Paarl Boys on TV and saw the little Paarl fullback rip Affies apart (think Damian Mckenzie, Aaron Cruden, Beuden Barret, Cory Jane etc) – Affies have a monster pack and still got beat- Big is not beautiful. Sometimes I think SA would be better at rugby league than union given our obsession with size!
Re: KES, Jeppe etc at the Lions – that’s where all you players of colour are coming from – not Monnas, Helpmekaar or Florida. Problem
@Grasshopper: no they can’t Hopper because you still have the SA coach mentality that the white player is better – look no further than Meyer’s selections for the WC highlighted above. Look at Gary Gold and the Sharks…….
@Roger, @Playa, @Vleis: Allister starting from a poor base (left to him) and will need to work hard on game plans and mind shifts for (hopefully) the right players. I will support him – as long as 50% of the team are Lions – hehehe. I think he will do well.
@Grasshopper: I agree.
@Roger: I agree that it’s unfair to expect Allister Coetzee to suddenly start beating the AB’s regularly; however, that should definitely be our medium-to-long term objective. Our schools are easily the equal of the NZ schools, but the kak coaching at adult level causes us to fail to properly utilise the talent coming through every year. Once we’ve fixed that, we will be home and dry!
@Roger: I thought he was there for his defence as he has absolutely nothing else to offer…until that Chiefs game.
@Roger: Do you feel Lions school rugby has transformed sufficiently to KES and Jeppe, or do you feel Monnas still have too much control? Pie is unfortunately not growing any larger. I understand the player bartering is insane!
@Roger: Poor Springbok performance rather attributable to poor coaching and unimaginative game plans than not having talented players. Of the coaches mentioned, only Ian, Kitch, Andre, Nick and Jake worth mentioning. Last 2 coaches very poor, even though Pieter’s record is not too bad. He unfortunately/fortunately had good structures left to him, to sustain his team’s performance.
@Roger: Springboks = KES: quite a stretch for a rather one sided argument, old chap – hehehe.
@Roger: agree that is the case now but certainly not 10 years ago, so for me transformation has happened & quotas can be scraped..
FYI Glenwood just beat Rotorua 29-12 and in the SANIX final tomorrow ?
@Playa: and what has happened to Sithole – the Sharks persevere with Andre Esterhuizen who, IMO, is the most over-rated player in SA. He typifies everything that is wrong with our rugby – bash, crash and no skills or vision. Did you watch him against the Chiefs, missed tackles, can’t catch a cold and passes terribly.
@Grasshopper: read my post above – I could select a non white and white XV, put them alongside and (bar lock forward) players could be interchanged without losing anything. How much better (or worse) is Combrinck than JP or Seargal Peterson, or Travis Ismael etc and how much do you lose (or gain) by replacing Marx and Brink with Kolisi and Ntubeni? Do the exercise Hopper and lets compare notes
Bok coaches record against NZ since readmission:
)
John Williams – played 1 won 0
Ian McIntosh – played 3 drew 1
Kitch Christie played 1 won 1 (100%
Andre Markgraaf – played 5 won 1
Carel Du Plessis – played 2 won 0
Nick Mallett – played 7 won 4
Harry Viljoen / Rudolph Straeuli – played 7 won 0
Jake White – played 9 won 3
Pieter De Villiers – played 11 won 5
HM – played 9 won 1
15 wins and a draw from 55 games – and yet we expect AC to beat them regularly – if he is better than a 30% win average against NZ then well done to him
@Roger: and what about someone like Ruan Combrinck, easily the best wing in SA but will never play for the Boks because that is a traditional PD position. Same with Marx, Kriel etc.
@Roger: ‘Nuff said! Now watch how a promising Garth April will soon disappear as a result of Pat Lambie’s return from injury.
@Matty: The problem is not transformation itself, but rather how people charged with the duty have implemented it. Transformation is necessary, and will happen – but a lot of what Roger has mentioned in his post need to change. And rightfully, as you mentioned, kids playing 3rds for the schools should not be just shoved into teams just to add colour.
and anyone disputing that we should be up there against NZ – just look at our record against them since readmission – we have beaten them just 13 times – a win ratio of less than 30% – why on earth would we expect AC to beat them more than they beat us. The coach with the best record against NZ funnily enough was P Div and once again, if we are brutally honest, he had the last SA dream team which peaked in 2009 when they beat NZ three times on the trot – since then, we are back to our historical 30% win ratio against them and even worse under HM
no one can tell me this hasn’t been a long time coming. When Heynecke Meyer selected Schalk Brits over Scarra Ntubeni and Morne Steyn over Elton Jantjies the writing was on the wall. Then he only gives Siya Kolisi and Rudi Paige 5 minutes of game time at the WC – PUHLEEEESE! SA Rugby deserve it. I could select a non white 15 and white 15 – put them alongside each other and most positions would be interchangeable (besides lock forward). I challenge you all to prove me wrong. Alastair Coetzee will be a breathe of fresh air and will select the likes of Kolbe, De Jongh, Mapoe, Skosan, Jantjies, Mvovo, Marutulle, Kolisi, Carr, Notshe, Ntubeni etc and actually back them and give them game time. Problem is – we keep comparing ourselves to the All Blacks and if we are brutally honest – it’s like comparing KES to Grey Bloem (at rugby that is) – KES may have the odd one off victory but Grey Bloem are just better – simple as that. If AC maintains a 50-50 record against Aus, beats Eng, Wales, Ireland, France and Argentina more times than he loses and occasionally beat NZ – I will be happy. And by the way – that is a far better record than HM.
As someone who has matriculated less than 10 years ago, and who has seen “transformation” practices with my own eyes, this is my opinion on the matter.
Transformation is a joke, no matter how much the agenda is bent and twisted. Anyone with a bit of grey matter can see it for what it is, discrimination.
I’ve seen boys from Jeppe making Lions teams when they themselves were barely scrapping into the 1st XV. I’ve witnessed boys wanting to give up rugby because they didn’t have enough pigmentation to make the team, and this was at U16 level!
What type of values does this instill into young men? There is currently a culture of a victim hood mentality running through my generation. It’s always someone else’s fault if you’re not good enough, or rich enough or smart enough.
I’ve been told that transformation is required in order to better represent the demographics of the country. Why? Is a white South African not the same as a black South African? To me they are.
@Tang: I didn’t see Wildeklawer, as I was watching the Grey PE fest. Wildeklawer will have less POC for the reasons stated by Playa. The schools that attended the Grey PE fest are not as strong as the schools at Wildeklawer, but the percentages of POC per school (based on my memory) were as follows:
– Grey 33% to 50%
– Dale 100%
– Queens 70% to 80%
– Framesby 20% to 30%
– St Alban’s 20% to 30%
– Muir 100%
– Parktown 60% to 80%
– Pearson 33% to 50%
– DHS 70% to 80%
@Tang: The problem with enforced quotas at SB level is that public schools are governed by the SA Schools Law. If they select to be an Article 21 (of the Law) school, which most former model C schools do, they basically become autonomous in how they run the school, what the language policy is and thereby whom they admit.
The Law was a social pact to free up government money to be used in previously disadvantaged schools in exchange for autonomy. Also, according to the Law extra curricular activities is a function of the Parents’ Control Body in these schools and government has no say over it. The principle of autonomy was tested several times in court, and the PCB’s won almost every case (the exception being when a school is not occupied to capacity).
So, “qoutas” in schools’ rugby will have to come from schools themselves, but can’t be enforced by government, unless there’s a change in the Law.
@Ploegskaar: As a student I went to watch the Springbok trials at Loftus in the late 70’s and all the names you’ve mentioned were there, but you forgot about Timothy Nkonki and Morgan Cushe!
@Tang: Not an issue to be honest. Firstly, because schools at Wildeklawer (barring Selborne) are Afrikaans medium schools. Louis Botha usually has black faces – that’s where the FS picks players of colour from. The Cape schools, which I am more familiar with were as expected – Selborne, Paarl Boys, Outeniqua, Oakdale, and Boland Landbou – dynamics in the Cape translate to more players of colour playing rugby.
On the other hand…I stand corrected…Dale and Ithembelihle aside, numbers were pretty much in favour of black boys down at the Grey Festival when I went to watch on Saturday.
@Playa: Thank you. I agree fully with you. The big rugby schools have a huge role to play in transformation. There is more than enough talent and if it found its way to the right platform, there would be a surplus of talent.
@Playa: Did you watch any of the Wildeklawer matches on TV? If yes, what is your view on the level of transformation at Wildeklawer?
@Tang: No, and rightfully so. At school is where kids choose which sports they want to play. It wouldn’t make sense to force a Grey Bloem/Affies, where not only does the school have a small percentage of black boys, but those who are there prefer to partake in other sports. BUT…I would be very concerned if the WP Craven Week team fielded, for arguments sake, only 2 players of colour…especially when one saw the make-up of the Boishaai team that beat Affies. This, I think is where Ringo and I are going with this.
@Ploegskaar: Ok cool…I wasn’t aware of Cupido’s provincial credentials. Richard Croy was the fourth one invited, right?
@Playa: Do you see the minister imposing quotas at school level to try and advance transformation?
@Ringo: That is exactly where the point is missed. This perception that transformation is shoving black faces amongst white faces. And 9 times out of 10 it is because the selectors themselves choose to either ignore folk with potential, or choose the wrong face in front of a deserving one. Tsimba, a great case in point. And this was at a time when the headlines were going on about a Flyhalf Crisis in SA. Transformation should not be about looking for places to fill with black faces, but rather looking for black faces to provide an opportunity to. I can understand some provinces may struggle with numbers, but most of us a smart enough to know that this is a challenge, and one that may not be fixed anytime soon, if ever. It definitely isn’t a problem on a broader, national level. Kick the can as much as you want, but at some point you’ll need to pick it up.
@BrotherBear: In all honesty, I think both the government and SARU could have done better, a long time ago to address transformation. We are still in this mess because both of them as custodians have continued to fail in turning lip service into action.
@BrotherBear: I support a system that picks the best player for best position but understands that you need to widen the base. The separate but equal philosophy does not work. I have been told by many players that when they arrive at craven week training sessions it often like scene out off the old SA where people are separated by colour information not made available to all and there is no uniform and transparent communication channels. How do you want boys compete equally when there is no equity between them. Just a question that is all
@Playa: Sure Cupido played 1st center for WP, alongside Faffa Knoetze I think? Not sure about this, but think he was also one of four POC that were invited to Bok trials early 80’s as well. Interestingly, saw guys like Cabous vd Westhuizen and Riaan Gouws play for the old WP Liga teams many Saturdays. Another name from that era that comes to mind is Solly Geduld
@Ringo: agree that nepotism is very unhealthy and often hurts both ways (those who benefit set up for failure). No one contests past wrongs. Do you support the kind of transformation that perpetuates such wrongs into the future? What is the ideology behind all your elloquent phrases?
@Valkie: They were Pretoria City when MNet purchased the team and named it SuperSport United. It’s quite possible Pretoria City were Arcadia Sheppards at some point. There was quite a lot of buying and selling o clubs in the 80s
@Playa: I am honestly often very impressed with well thought through and coherent your arguments are on this blog… you strike me a very self aware person and long may such authentic comments be heard on the blog ….I on the other hand prefer to call a spade a spade and I am tired of certain bloggers who like to use this platform to advance narrow minded and often ill-conceived agendas….. I do not think the guys and when I say guys I am generalising when people say transform rugby we not are saying pick Rudi Paige and Siya Xolosi and make them glorified ball boys which was Heinicke’s approach… we are saying see how for many years Kennedy Tshimba who is Zimbabwean but had made himself eligable for SA and was by far the best flyhalf in SA and not picked how when Sepaka was the best loosehead in SA he was not picked and do not get me started on Bobo and tyibilika “may his soul rest in peace” was by far the better player yet never picked becaused blonde haired blue eyed counterparts are preferred over them and when blondie makes a mistakes its youthful inexperience and when a black player makes mistakes its because he is incompetent…. the transformation of the sport is not about changing the colour of the teams but changing system that crushes black people and perpetuates that only one culture can play the game of rugby. A diversified approach to rugby where resources and expertise are shared would unearth talent from all corners of this country instead of the same boring pick and drive one dimensional approach that a certain group only want and can play cause they think rugby is about size and not the use of space…. just saying they wonder why we struggle in the professional ranks and yet the know that nepotism is killing rugby as slowly as it did our soccer…. nepotism kills the game faster than any politician will ever do
@Ploegskaar: You are slightly older than me, but I’ll accept
Correct me if I’m wrong, though Avril Williams and Errol Tobias were the only ones to represent the Boks…only Christie Noble and Jerome Paarwater played Currie Cup rugby? The rest (including the 2 Boks) only played Federation rugby?
@Vleis:
you had me scratching my head there.
@Playa: I can remember, as a young boy, Arcadia Sheppards in the middle of Pretoria next to Sterland. They were all white boys, and this was in the 70s/80s. We lived right next to the stadium and I played on the pitch while they were exercising.
Is it true to say they became ‘super sport united?
@Playa: Avril Williams, Wilfred Cupido, Hennie Schields, Pompies Williams, Jerome Paarwater, Richard Croy, Aubrey Noble, Christie Noble
@Playa: I confess that I did/do not follow the local scene overly closely, but a few non-white football names that I can immediately recall are:
– Ace Khuse
– Ace Ntsolengoe
– ‘Teenage’ Dladla
– Doc Khumalo
– Helman Kallele
– Phil (substitute) Masinga
– Mark Williams
– Shaun Bartlett
– Naughty Mokoena (I played against him in Vets football a few times when he was 35 and I was 42 – I struggled to keep up)
– John ‘Shoes’ Moshoe
– Quinton Fortune
– Bennie McCarthy
– Steve Pienaar
– Last but not least, Lucas Radebe
[EDIT: just seen that you wanted rugby players]
@Grasshopper: Yet in another thread you site ‘Quotas’ as the reason KZN has to pick 2nd team players for Youth Week teams – meaning you agree with Umtata that the problem lies in provincial level.Yes, No?
@Playa: Steve Tovey should have read Mark Tovey. I was thinking of Steve Crowley when I typed that.
@Pietie Passion: I would like to disagree. Your statements show a lack of understanding of the history of soccer. Soccer, contrary to your statements, used to be the main sport in most of the now ‘traditional rugby schools’ (English medium ones that is). Rugby, in those schools, came later as more of a rebel sport. It wasn’t a government decision to scrap soccer, but rather a demand and supply issue. Interestingly, there was a call at Dale for soccer to be re-introduced, and the powers that be were honest enough to reject the proposal sighting that they may lose black boys to soccer.
But more relevantly to the topic of transformation in soccer – I would actually be very upset if we had an all white Bafana team and Mbalula cried fowl re transformation. Reason being, soccer in SA has been integrated since the 1940s. Growing up in the 80s, the NPSL as it was known was (I sh*t you not) about 70-30 to blacks. Whereas our rugby & cricket teams got banned because the federations themselves refused to have mixed sport – SA soccer got the ban because they were already mixed (a mixed side played and beat Argentina in 1976) – but John Vorster just plain refused to allow it. Keith Broad joined Orlando Pirates as the first white player in 1976.
With big money flowing into soccer, previously white teams were bought by black businessmen/soccer players, starting with Highlands Park which was bought by Jomo Sono, and turned into what is now Jomo Cosmos. Wits University and Hellenic FC were actually predominantly white during the days of the NSL in the 80s.
In short, I grew up with the likes of Shane McGregor, Gary Bailey, Steve Tovey, Neil Tovey, Roger de Sa, Keith Broad to name a few – can any of my white counterparts who grew up in my era even name a black ‘professional’ rugby player from that time – barring maybe Errol Tobias?
@CapeMan: Thanks. I blame the websport app for those last conversion exclusions
SACS 80 – DF Malan 5
Jeppe 40 – Bishops 24
These are the proper scores Beet
Daar is nie meer so iets soos ‘n MODEL C skool nie. Almal is of “PUBLIC SCHOOLS” of “INDEPENDENT SCHOOLS”.
@Umtata: Go and have a look at the DHSSport handle on Twitter, a pic of the team after beating Ithembelihle 60-0
https://twitter.com/DHS_Sport
Is that transformation? You see you don’t need political intervention to get transformation…
Transformation is going to happen whether we like it or not. Unions must just start addressing it.
College lost 20-27 to SACS.not the greatest game to be fair,College had a lot of ball first 20mins,SACS lived off the scraps and did well to hang in there.SACS defensive structures were pretty good but College kicked out of hand at least twice when the overlap was on,otherwise apart from Guma,who lived off scraps,and Muller I thought the backline didn’t offer much,forwards were good as usual and almost had a push over try right at the end.It seems as though a ‘small’ College 1st XV is the norm nowadays,don’t know what can be done to change that?Credit to the boys for never laying down.Great to have the red black n’white down in the Western Cape,a significant number of OB’s at the game today…
@Tang: Well. lets go over to the appointment of a political commissar on campus. Im sure the clown would be happe with this. Henceforth, every second white kid WILL play soccer and every second black kid, WILL play rugby. See, the solution is easy. And you are right. I believe overseas agents are recruiting at the schools.
@PietePassion: Agree fully. I think we all feel like victims of the system. There are countless stories of selections which are not based on merit and there are two sides to the story. The child who should have been selected but was overlooked and the child who wasn’t selected on merit. Both are actually victims of a flawed system. To impose an unrealistic timeline on when transformation should be completed is unrealistic. It could take 50 years for rugby to be fully transformed. Just the demographic composition of the country will tell you that having more and more players of colour at all levels is inevitable.
I also think Bog is saying that in 5 years, many players who are excluded from the system will leave South Africa and seek opportunities elsewhere. Indeed this is already happening.
If the minister were to try and implement quotas at school level, this process would just be expedited. In addition, there would be chaos because skillful players of colour will be in much greater demand.
The sad reality and the thing the ANC want us all to ignore is the fact that there has been no proper development at non model C schools. Having coaching clinics every 6 months is hardly a recipe for creating budding young rugby stars.
@Bog: To answer your question, I think Grey are helping transform society. It is just a pity we don’t have many more Grey Bloems.
@Bog: It is a sad but true point you make. Only wish it wasn’t the case.
I think GCB has transformed many lives. I have seen a number of Grey Boys who would never have had the opportunities they did if they weren’t at Grey.
It is a real pity this country does not have double the number of model C schools. I reckon the current ruling party would have been out of power if we had more model C schools.
@Vyfster: Congrats. brilliant win!!!!
Ben Vorster 25-22 Brackenfell FT.
Vossies comfortably ahead 25-8…good late fightback by Brackies
Well done Vossies, I am happy for them, I was concerned, knowing that no true Vossie can play well in temps of below 15 degrees….anything below 30 is cold for us…lol
@Valkie: @Hanswors: Do agree with you. @Tang: Also agree with you, we need to do something, not FORCE just because of skin colour. And can we please also include soccer. Sorry for the example, but I se many white kids in poorer suburbs playing soccer with their non-white counterparts. But they are never developed or given an opportunity to participate in soccer.
Just for some funny fact, some years ago I worked at a mine, and most of the lower wage earners were non-white, with no white face amongst them. The union was complaining about transformation and quota, referring more to middle and top management, So the company agreed to start addressing the issue, and on the next recruitment drive, the post for Rock Drill Operator (RDA) and other low-income positions were advertised and it was specifically mentioned that they were looking for young white kids to fill this positions. At the time there were about 150+ RDA`s, which mean that to balance the colour thing, most of the appointments for the recruitment drive was going to be white. The union and workers went ballistic and just wanted to strike, asking how can they appoint white workers for the positions, as it must be reserved for black workers, Those of you who might know the mining industry will also know that the change rooms is almost a “holy” place. And the non-whites complaint about sharing their bathrooms with white kids, and be seen naked by white people. The management explained to them that by addressing the lower levels first, the next step would be addressing middle management. The union was not up to this and refused the white appointments. The issue was later resolved, but my point is, one can complain, but if it influence you, then suddenly it is not right. Transformation is a selective discrimination based on race. It only goes one side, but not the other side #soccermusttranform !!!
@Tang: And by practical question, I meant that you should present me with a plan to transform at GCB, using the scenario which I presented to you.
@Tang: Given the state of Africa, I can fully understand the suspicion about “transformation”. In reality, it has been very closely associated with decline and destruction. And I can provide you with countless examples- And I have lived there and witnessed it personally. And Im not talking about Zim and Namibia or the BLS countries for that matter.Fact is that transformation is nothing but a fantasy and an instrument to interfere politically. And this will be confirmed within 5 yrs
@Grasshopper: we should make a distinction between quotas and transformation. Glenwood has helped many youngsters transform without having a quota system imposed on them.
@Bog: My definition of transformation would differ totally from the ruling parties definition. Unfortunately my definition will not be acted upon and potentially promulgated as law.
I am not an advocate of quota systems but I do believe many of the model C schools in this country have a huge role to play in transforming this country. Schools such as Grey Bloem, KES, Jeppe, Pretoria Boys, etc play a huge role to play in creating a more representative middle class. There can be no argument that a child who attends one of the above schools has a far greater chance of becoming a success in the future.
My main point is that many schools put rankings ahead of transformation. If the minister imposes quotas on schools, how will these schools cope? Can you imagine the demand for skilled players of colour? There could quite literally be a bidding war to get quality players.
Bog, I don’t see quotas as helping transformation. I see quotas as a punitive, unssuccessful attempt by the ruling party to win votes. I want to go on record and say I don’t believe in quotas but I do believe in transforming society and having a more inclusive and mixed middle class. As mentioned earlier, Model C schools can play a huge role in this process. Isn’t it better for schools to lead this process rather than have quotas imposed by a ruling party with dubious motives?
You can not force children to like a sport. All the facilities in the world may be available but if you dont like a sport that is it.
That is the problem, in the under age groups there might be enough players of colour because they were forced into a system with all the support. The moment they get older and need to stand on their own feet most of them disappear because the system do not make them a certainty for selection in terms of numbers. Rugby is a tough sport and they do not like the physicallity the same way they do not like to swim. You get the odd one out but the white players tend to work harder from younger ages to get picked and the worh ethics is in place therefor the heeps of good players.
@Pietie Passion: @Grasshopper: Just a thought, in the last 20 years many artificial cricket pitches were built in rural areas and townships. So were other sport facilities made available. Shall we go back to these places and see what happened at these sites. Why should transformation then be made my, and my children’s, problem and penalty if the opportunities made available but never used or managed?
We all raise our kids to fulfill their dreams and live to their full potential.
I completely understand the destitute and desperate needs of rural children as I often see them in these rural areas, however there are people taking care of them, and most of them do get opportunities to excel.
Tranformation!!! since 2009 my kid was disadvantage several times due to his skin colour.The first time in 2009, he went for cricket trials, in Limpopo. Two teams were chosen, and they had to be 6 white and 6 non-white I each team. On the last day of the trials, the names were called, and it was easy to choose 12 white boys, but not so easy to choose 12 non-white boys, as there was only 7 non-white boys at the trials. Of those 7, 3 were brilliant, and the other 4, well at least they were there. When asked what about the other 5, we were told they will go and get them from schools in the province. We were amazed. At the end my child was chosen for the Limpopo B team. So yes, I do have my doubts on transformation. Why only concentrate on rugby, cricket, athletics and netball? What about soccer? My child never got the opportunity to play soccer, because the government never made an effort to promote it in white schools. Soccer was reserved for non-white kids. The provincial soccer teams is 100% non-white. The government should promote soccer in so called “white” schools, and any provincial or national team should include at least 2 white player in the starting line-up. Or is transformation only for a specific group?? Wonder what is the word they call it when one group discriminate against another group???
@BOG: Transformation is a pile of kak, that is what it is. It’s reverse racism or reverse apartheid. It’s flippin worse than BEE. We 20 plus years past having these quotas etc, how long does it have to go on now. There are plenty of non white players good enough on merit. Scrap this whole thing or get international teams to boycott us if we don’t pick on merit. I honestly don’t care if our best fullback is Japanese, if he is the best pick him. I hate the idea that my son one day might not make a team because he is white. What was sickening the other day was talking to an Indian lady with a white husband and she said she is relieved her son has some colour in him, just wrong!
@Tang: I have a very practical question for you. What, in your opinion, is transformation? Im guessing the numbers, but Im sure that I cant be too far off the mark, but at GCB,you have rugby teams, 98% white and soccer teams, 98% black. That is their choice and a reflection of the cultural preferences in that region. To “transform”as the garden knome, masquerading as a sports minister, requires, do they appoint a political commissar or social engineer, to impose “choices” or do you allow the kids to do that themselves, as indeed, they are now doing? Otherwise, they could stop either rugby or soccer, leaving them no choice at all.
@Wyvern: In fact, it was on 8 April, so Saints u15A have played more recently than a month ago. It was at the ISRF at Clifton in KZN.
Thanks and same to Kingswood for the rest of their season. Send my regards to Sid!
@Vleis: I believe in their current first team 11 are still in grade 11 so you’re right it will be tough!
Where did our u15’s meet against saints?
Good luck at Grey!!!
@Wyvern: If you play at Saints next year, you may struggle to win a game. Saints started recruiting heavily from the current grade 11 crop and onwards, so next year will be their first ‘dream team’. Even the Saints u15A smashed the Kingswood u15A by 35 to nil a month ago on neutral ground but lost by about ten yesterday to the same team at Kingswood.
I’m getting ready to travel down to your neck of the woods later today to watch St Alban’s at the Grey fest.
@OG: I think there is talk between kc and saints to make it an annual fixture, seeing that they are our brother school. This year is however only a rugby tour for saints.
@Wyvern: Is this a new fixture between the schools ? and also with SAC ?
@beet: I have a few questions for you.
Based on the announcement from the minister of sport, do you think there is a chance quotas could be forced down to school level? I know there are quotas at the provincial weeks but not at actual individual school level.
Many schools are not transformed and show no intention to transform.
If a quota was imposed at school level, can you imagine the impact on schools that recruit and use sports bursaries to drive results.
What would happen if each school first team had to start with a specified number of players of colour?
@Vleis: I was very surprised at the level all the Saints teams played at, good structure, skills etc. The first team match was a close affair on the score board but it never really looked as if we would lose. We had a reshuffled backline and just never really “clicked” except for a few instances. I just hope we can get it right when we play the likes of Dale, SAC etc. Just as we did against Queens.
Out of the five fixtures, the firsts, seconds and u15a’s won, u16a’s lost by 10 odd points and u14a’s got hammered.
@Wyvern: I believe that it was a very tight game until the last 10 to 15 minutes. That’s a pretty good performance from Saints against the Kingswood dream team away from home after not having played rugby for nearly a month. I suspect that the game v SAC will be even closer.
Kingswood 37 Saints 23