Included: letter from Parktown detailing their views as well as a letter issued by KES to their own community prior to the Parktown letter
Parktown has withdrawn (suspended) sporting fixtures against KES in the interim. The two schools are busy talking about this so there are chances that the Parktown issues will be resolved. Two ex-Parktown boys were amongst a group of 20 odd boys (some from state schools, some from independent both boys and co-ed schools) who enrolled from grade 9 -11 at KES this year and are the cause of Parktown’s decision.
Parktown Quote:
This is not about getting into a media and social network war with KES, but rather about honoring agreements and winning at all costs! These boys had excelled under our systems to the level of provincial U16 and members of the SARU Elite squad.
Here is the letter sent by Parktown to their parent body on 21 January 2016, containing facts of the events leading up to their decision:
PARKTOWN BOYS’ HIGH SCHOOL
Dear Parktown Parents and Old Boys
Below is a detailed breakdown of events that ultimately led to the decision to suspend all one on one sporting activities against King Edward VII School:
In September 2015 rumours began to surface that two boys from Parktown Boys’ High School had been approached by schools in Kwa-Zulu Natal and Gauteng, through an agent, ***.
These two young men have been on full sports scholarships at Parktown since the start of grade 8. They had been developed through the school’s structures to the point where both of them represented the Lions Provincial side, were members of the Lions U19 7’s team and were invited to Cape Town as part of the national elite squad.
On 15th September 2015, Mr Murabito (Director of Sports), emailed the Sports Directors of all Gauteng Boys’ Schools and filled them in on the background of the boys and the possible approaches to schools by their agent. Mr Murabito also reminded them of the agreement which stands between the schools (Boys’ Schools’ Charter – which prohibits the approach of boys at schools that have signed the charter). All the schools acknowledged this, including King Edward).
When the SHARKS union wanted to place them in a KZN school, Mr Murabito contacted the LIONS, and the boys were subsequently offered school boy contracts to remain in Johannesburg.
In November 2015, the school hosted a meeting with one of the boys, the father, Mr Bradley (Headmaster), Timmy Goodwin (GLRU), Bafana Nhleko (GLRU and Parktown Rugby Director), Mr van Zyl (1st XV Coach) and Mr Murabito. At this meeting, there was a verbal commitment to remain at Parktown and both the father and his son said they wanted to stay at Parktown and were 100% committed to the school.
Up until 10th December (last day of term) both boys were involved in pre-season rugby training at Parktown.
On 12th December, Mr Murabito confirmed via text message (which is available) that the boys were returning to Parktown.
On 12th January 2016 (day before start of new term) it became known that both boys were enrolled at King Edward and had moved into the boarding house. Parktown Boys’ High were not informed of this, neither were proper transfer procedures followed. Mr Bradley contacted the headmaster of King Edward, who insisted that there was nothing wrong with the boys being at his school.
As a result of the above impasse, on 15th January 2016, Mr Bradley, in consultation with the school’s executive, took the decision to suspend all sporting activities against King Edward until further notice.
This issue is bigger than the two schools involved. We, as a school, believe that the time has come to make a stand against the continued procurement of players between the boys’ schools, either by direct approaches from schools, or through the use of agents.
Yours sincerely
Mr D Bradley
HEADMASTER
KING EDWARD VII SCHOOL
RESENDING OF THE LETTER SENT ON MONDAY, 18 JANUARY FROM MR LOVATT. DUE TO A TECHNICAL PROBLEM, SOME OF OUR PARENTS DID NOT RECEIVE THIS CORRESPONDENCE. SINCERE APOLOGIES FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE CAUSED.
RE: The suspension of sporting activities between King Edward VII School and Parktown Boys’ High School: As per the instruction of the Headmaster of Parktown Boys.
THIS EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE IS FOR THE INTENDED RECIPIENT ONLY (KING EDWARD VII PARENTS, KING EDWARD VII OLD BOYS AND FRIENDS OF THE SCHOOL AND IS NOT TO BE DISTRIBUTED TO ANYONE ELSE WHETHER IN A HARD COPY, EMAIL OR ANY SOCIAL MEDIA).
FROM: The Headmaster King Edward VII School
RE: The suspension of sporting activities between King Edward VII School and Parktown Boys’ High School: As per the instruction of the Headmaster of Parktown Boys.
I write to inform you that late on Friday afternoon (15 January, 2016) I received email correspondence from Mr Derek Bradley (Headmaster of Parktown Boys) informing me that he was suspending all sports fixtures against King Edward VII School until further notice. This decision has been taken as a result of two former learners of Parktown being enrolled at King Edward VII School as of 13 January, 2016.
During the course of last week I had been in correspondence with the Headmaster of Parktown Boys’ High School with respect to the enrolment, which started in 2015. The application made in 2015 was communicated to Parktown as early as Sept / October 2015 in a telephone conversation between the Headmasters of these two schools.
We, King Edward VII School, remain firm in our stance that the move between the two schools was legitimate and was initiated by the parent of the two boys. We refute any claim that we poached the two boys in question. Neither the Tuition or Boarding fees are being paid for or discounted by King Edward VII School.
Despite requests from myself to meet and discuss the different views of the two schools, no such meeting has transpired. Parktown Boys’ High School’s decision is obviously very concerning and I will continue to attempt to engage with Mr Bradley in an effort to resolve this most unfortunate incident.
Our relationship with Parktown Boys’ High School has always been highly valued as are our shared traditions.
I will keep the community informed about any further development in this matter.
Yours faithfully
DCP Lovatt
Headmaster
This blog may be updated as more information is made available.
Glenwood vs Parktown – won 10-1
Glenwood vs St Benedicts – won 9-2
Saaw on Twitter Glenwood beat Grey PE 9-2.
@Roger: I think it’s too early but St Johns, Clifton & GLENWOOD are really strong.GW has the balance that the others marginally lack, giving them the edge. Hence my thought that they should replace Parktown at KES. The positive is that they only have 3 grade 12’s. Rondebosch have good players but somehow just lack finishing.
@Grasshopper:
I watched the Glenwood team in action last weekend. Even against very weak opposition, the skills on display were something to behold. I predict them stirring the proverbial pot this year.
I see the best captain in the country is at the helm of the Lions again :-)
@Vin: I think you have to have Clifton to consider it the top tourno. Glenwood will be up there this year and probably for another 2 years.
@Roger: They haven’t released the list but the likes of: SJC, Saints, SACS, Rondebosch, Bishops, Grey PE, etc
@Roger: our 1st team still all grade 11 so wouldn’t say we as strong as we were 2007,2010,2011 and 2012. But watch this space lots of plans to get polo back up where it should be.
@Vin: who else is in?
@umbiloburger: who – in your opinion – are the top teams? Do you judge that over the last five/ten years or do you mean the top rated teams for 2016? Because (and @Vin: ) can correct me I don’t think KES polo is at it’s strongest right now
@Roger: Parktown out – St Albans in.
@umbiloburger: ah – but we all know that test match cricket is the ultimate – the format all the players want to play and be measured against?
@umbiloburger: not sure the 2016 tournament teams have been finalised @Vin: might know. Maybe they are trying to kiss and make up with Parktown before releasing the details
@Roger: imo At KES you have test match cricket and at SACS you have limited overs. Both extremely good and both really enjoyed by all. There is place for both.
I think Glenwood are going to the PBHS tourno
@Vin: @Vin: @Vin: Sorry to state the obvious but the most prestigious should include your top teams. Perhaps with Parktown out KES could give GW a chance.?
@Roger: GW are invited to Clifton but not KES. The KES Tournament is fantastic but doesn’t include all the top teams.its such a pity.
@Grasshopper: yep GW should win it.
I believe the Grey Bloem tourno is on now as we speak…
@Vin: I remember in 1995 we had a young Hungarian kid, probably 16 at the time come to Glenwood on exchange. He was in a different league even compared to the matric boys. He played 1st team and scored most of the goals. Just him passing on tips improved the side. I think he ended up staying until the end of matric playing with now SA Mens player Donn Stewart & SA Schools goalie Nathan Venter.
@Grasshopper: KES play all three tournaments and they rave about the Clifton tournament. If they had to choose I think they would drop sacs but that is my view not the schools.
@Vin: I get your jist, it’s T20 vs Test cricket, one is ‘real’cricket the other just a crowd pleaser. Trninic, yes that was the bloke. I think Clifton would come a very close 2nd then…
@Grasshopper: http://www.stjohnscollege.co.za/news/news2010/overviewNews2010_apr19_03.php
@Grasshopper: Vladimir Trninic – Croatian – probably the best polo coach in SA and St Johns arguably the best polo school in SA over the last 10 years
@Grasshopper: I’ve been to both on more than one occasion and the KES tournament attendance is larger please don’t get me wrong the sacs tournament is great but it isn’t real polo.
@Roger: I heard St Johns had a world class coach from Serbia, Italy or Croatia, now that is what is needed….
@Vin: Yep, but sometimes good marketing makes the average man in the street think one is the best. SACS is very well marketed and attended.
@Grasshopper: don’t take our word for it – ask La Marque
@Grasshopper: yes it is one of those names above. Well then your Hungarian mate will laugh at a 2 chukkas game.
@Vin: If Craig Roy, Guy Mottram, Nathan Venter or Donn Stewart say so then I’ll believe you. Trust me, I also know my polo, my best mate is Hungarian, it’s like rugby in SA. Their under13 side would beat our Under18’s..
SACS – Previous Winners
1984 SACS
1985 DHS/RBHS
1986 SACS
1987 DHS
1989 SACS
1990 WESTVILLE/SACS
1991 NORTHWOOD
1992 SELBORNE
1993 SELBORNE
1994 SELBORNE
1995 DHS
1996 DHS
1997 ST STITHIANS
1998 KEARSNEY
1999 KES
2000 DHS
2001 MARITZBURG
2002 MARITZBURG
2003 ST JOHNS
2004 ST JOHNS
2005 ST JOHNS
2006 RONDEBOSCH
2007 WESTVILLE
2008 ST JOHNS
2009 ST JOHNS
2010 ST ANDREWS
2011 PRETORIA BOYS
2012 GREY PE
2013 SACS
2014 ?
2015 SELBORNE
@Vin: and even a former GW springbok agrees with me. The thing they have against the SaCS tournament is anything can happen in 2 chukkas, fitness and conditioning does come into play.
@Grasshopper: google the Edwardian Cup to understand the history. SACS tournament is mickey mouse to the players – KES tourno (Edwardian Cup) is played to international standards
@Grasshopper: after speaking to parents from most of the schools they enjoy the SACS tournament but the one they want to win is KES. Sorry mate on this one I will argue all day as I know a bit about polo and the tournaments. I attend most of the tournaments and interact with parents and coaches all the time – take my word on this one.
@Vin: Sorry boet the most well known and the one every school wants to win is SACS. Glenwood hasn’t won it yet, but DHS have a few wins.
Oh yes, this is for my Brakpan blog mates; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxqhE_gy9RI
@Vleis: The only reason the saints tournament is the largest is because it includes primary school girls and boys and open girls and boys. The oldest and most prestigious is the KES tournament. The saints tournament for the open age group is 4 chukkas of 5 mins while KES and Clifton are proper games(4 chukkas of 10mins and from QF onwards 4 chukkas of 12 mins) SACS is 2 chukkas of 10mins.
@GreenBlooded: Great idea! Will certainly stop grade 10 & 11 moves…
Easy to solve this problem. If you move schools, you can’t play A team or 1st team for a full season.
@Vin: You mentioned the KES and Clifton water-polo tournaments as being the biggest, but what about the Saints one in October/Nov. I thought that was the largest water polo festival in the country? That said, I’m not an expert as my son plays cricket.
@Vin: Weird that, considering Glenwood hosted KES for the big Alan Burt gala last year. We have played KES in cricket twice in the past two years. Just seems weird that they don’t have a better relationship, the schools are so similar…
@Roger: Don’t know about the Clifton relationship but I Know La Marque has met with KES and don’t think it was positive. Both tournaments aren’t full they work on a rotation basis and GW just not in the rotation as far as I understand it.
@Roger: Hello from the other side! Those tourno’s are full. The Head at Clifton is an ex Glenwood teacher and College Old Boy. He coached the Glenwood 1st team for 3 years but was replaced by Toppy after those years being unsuccessful, he might hold a grudge….who knows….
@Vin: why won’t they get invited to Clifton and KES? Bad blood (with apologies to Taylor Swift
)
@Vin: The under16’s won the DHS tourno last year
@Grasshopper: Agree but unfortunetly they are not attending any real tournaments. The SACS tournament although festive and well attended is still only 2 chukkas, the tournaments to win are the KES and the Clifton tournament which GW don’t get invited to.
@Vin: http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/water-polo-news
I think Glenwood will have a very good chance at SACS this year.
@Grasshopper: never moaned Hopper – just loved winding you Greenies up – easy target
@Grasshopper: Just to clear things up – the 2 grdae 8’s were always talented(hence their scholarships), the one grade 12 doesn’t play any sport anymore(polo player) whilst the other one didn’t all of a sudden develop – he represented gauteng at every age group before his move. Saying that GW polo has come along in leaps and bounds and I don’t want to get into a GW bashing session it’s getting a bit old now.
I honestly think the biggest concerns for schools now is losing kids to parents emigrating, that will be huge in the coming year. I know of over 20 families in our complex looking to go. Glenwood lost that Staples kid to the UK, huge prospect. SARU might need to identify the kids early and pay them to stay in SA…
@Roger: You were the first to moan about the two kids going. Glenwood is wrongly hated by most. Funny when they were just average at sport, no-one gave two hoots. Now they are under the microscope every week. The horse has bolted on rankings, blogs etc…..it’s not 1984…
@Vin: and the Gauteng U16 cricketer who went to Saints and and and….. – the more I think on this the more I reckon Parktown needs to grow a pair and move on. I would also be filthy if I were them – especially (apparently) as the boys father verbally promised the headmaster his kids were staying. KES may have shot themselves in the foot by dealing with such a capricious character – these boys may up and move in a years time again – if so, deal with it and move on.
I remember the same argument with Glenwood Selborne and the Bossr kid
@Bush: The one way of doing away with all the cr@p is closing down blogs like this and scrapping all school ranking systems. School are under pressure to perform from us ‘old boys’ and parents.
@Grasshopper: didn’t mention Glenwood at all – sensitive much
That was just one incident involving two brothers (one in grade 8 and the other in grade 10) – both moved to Glenwood – KES didn’t gnash their teeth, whine and wail – life goes on.
@Bush: No, but I landed up loving KES.
The problem with “under the table” antics. Is people start to hate the schools involved.
The current St John’s 1st team polo captain left KES end of grade 10 on a scholarship to SJC. Last year St Stithians offered a SA u16 polo player at KES a scholarship to saints…he started grade 11 at St Sthithians this year. Nothing in the press – life goes on you can’t force kids and parents to stay at a school.
@Roger: Nice dig at Glenwood there, I believe the two polo players you talking about were at grade 8 level so free game. I for one would want to have my boy in the Glenwood polo programme, some awesome coaches. Their 1st team beat College this weekend 24-2! The same was said about Glenwood accepting Marne Coetzee from Waterkloof……pots and kettles going on big time….
@Vin: Ja thats also a problem. From your post its wasn’t your dream. The school you ended up at was that your choice?
@Bush: Yup, but then we will end up with Sports Academies, so Glenwood, Westville, DHS and Northwood in KZN. Privates won’t want to try and keep up so their fixtures will be amongst other privates with the same idea. So House will play St Johns, St Stithians, St Charles, Bishops, Kingswood etc. How is this for frightening, my sister started teaching at Westlake Boys in NZ last week, 2,500 boys! Over 40 rugby teams and over 20 SA teachers, mostly with rugby credentials. Now that will be one serious sports academy, especially with the huge Maori kids.
@Vin: I heard about the Grey approach at GK last year – “those in glass houses…..”.
KES however don’t make a song and dance about it if they lose talented sportsman – us old boys might get into a froth and jump up and down but the school doesn’t. KES has lost star waterpolo and hockey players to a few KZN schools and cricketers to some JHB privates – life goes on and if the boys / parents want to move on to “greener pastures” so be it. You are correct though – how can you keep a learner at a school if he clearly is unhappy and wants to leave. It happens all the time and the only time we hear of it is when it is a talented sportsmen and someone runs to the press. The Parktown situation is further complicated because the Lions union got involved to retain the boys – otherwise we could just have swapped KES’s name in this saga for Hilton’s.
I know many people on this blog will say KES should not have accepted the boys, even though they had applied in June last year and that KES had told them to see out the academic year at Parktown and given Parktown the heads up 6 months ago. Maybe so ………
@Grasshopper: If its equal for all schools. You won’t have that scenario. The Olympic Games, countries want to dominate the medals table, they will do anything to achieve that. Schools are doing that with rugby, under the table.
@Bush: His dream or his parents dream? I went to a top sporting school because of pressure from my father but left at the end of grade 10 because i was unhappy.
@Vin: A talent sportsmen will grow up wanting to be at a specific school i.e. Grey Bloem(Just an example). It’s his dream to play sport at that school. Kids that want to change schools all the time are generally kids that have had the good life at home and not really sports orientated.
@Bush: Yes, but then you’ll get things like Hilton pulling out of fixtures with Glenwood, which started in 1915. Hilton are Glenwood’s oldest opponents and no matter what OB’s say I would really like the tradition kept. All it would take in Gary Teichmann and John Allan to meet with both heads and sort it out over a beer. At the end of the day it’s 15 boys vs 15 boys, you play what is in front of you…
Looks like the following Glenwood kids are with them;
JJ Van der Mescht – Lock – grade 11
Morne Van Rensburg – flyhalf – ?
Brendan Schwulst – hooker – ?
Dylan Pretorius – flyhalf – ?
Jonathan O’Neill – flank – ?
Sean Maduna – centre – grade 12
Maarten Holtzhausen – centre – grade 12
Austin Brummer – flank – grade 12
There are others from Michaelhouse, Bishops etc also a few Glenwood Old Boys. There must be other agencies like this operating all over the country. Half of the Glenwood boys above I have never heard of…
@Grasshopper: If that treaty/agreement is developed. It will never be honoured. Open the field. Chuck away all the rules, let the schools buy whoever and whatever they want. If there is a player in Matric and he has an awesome Easter Tournament buy him. Put him in your school. It’s professional already, they just pretending its not.
@Grasshopper: I disagree, what if the boy is seriously not happy at the school he is at? Forcing him to stay is just as bad, if not worse. Kids change schools all the time because they are unhappy the only time we hear about it is if they are talented at a sport.
To be fair, no school is immune to this now especially with the provinces and agents getting involved. This crowd is growing as we speak; http://www.prosportinternational.com/
A few Glenwood boys have been signed by them. The only way this can be stopped is if ALL Headmasters sign a treaty/agreement where they will not accept any applications from rugby boys of other schools…
@rugbyfan: Nobody has said they are fine with it. As, I think it was Gungets Tuft who said above – all us old boys are one stupid mistake away from having egg on our faces. This could have been Grey after they approached 2 KES boys at GK last year.
How KES can stand back and say this was all above board is shocking that’s like acting like our great leader JZ. Lovatt I would not trust with my dog let alone a school.
If KES or any of there supporters think this is cool then you all need your heads read.
Play this loud now; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx6YN-Phvng
@Gungets Tuft:
@Gungets Tuft: And the kids have agents and kuk like that. The only agent I knew at school was James Bond.
Splash out with cheque book. Let the dust settle and then take stock.
@BrotherBear: “but we need to look after our kids and their best interests”
For some parents that means monitoring their steroid program so that they don’t miss a day. A mate is a sports doctor and relates to me how many parents he gets dragging their kids into the consulting room asking for “something to help him grow”. When my mate points out that he is already taller than both his parents and that genetics are not easily bypassed, refusing to prescribe HGH or something, they disappear to just surface at another doctor …
Vicarious living … to be found next to school sports fields around the nation. Hell, some folks even accompany their boys into the change rooms before matches, claiming that only they know how to strap up their boy.
And then lining up really good lawyers when they test positive and get off on a technicality.
Agree with Dok F that there is a lot of exploitation of young talent and their families. Lots of promises and the glitter of short term incentives can trap a person quite easily. A longer term perspective is always required with various possible outcomes. You need someone wise to guide you on that path. Schools generally have short term objectives. Some actually care and focus on more. Families in financial need normally don’t have the luxury of declining a “more rosy future” and don’t readily see or believe the pitfalls and traps posed by Mammon. I don’t believe strong regulation is the answer, but we need to look after our kids and their best interests.
@Rugger fan:
…….or a ‘smoke’ break behind the shop at Montrose on the way down to Pmb……
8)
“I think this should serve as a warning to all those who think they are holier than thou in this poaching thing. I think ou GT put it very well many moons ago – the hardest fall is the one from moral high ground.”
Yep – a fair warning to all of us to self-moderate.
I’m pretty sure of of the schools in SA that are represented here on the blog are only one incident away from some sort of negative exposure – whether from a case such as this – or from n off field moment of madness by a few of their boys (as seen by a top KZN school and their matric class shenanigans last year).
Ja die gekopery van spelers word altyd deur die verkeerde party afgelag as standaard praktyk wat niks verkeerds is nie. Kopery is ‘n geld issue.
Niemand wil dit erken nie. Talentvolle kinders wie se ouers skoolgelde kan betaal plaas hulle kind waar hulle dink die beste is vir die kind en deur lojaliteit bly die kind daar. Ongelukkig word die talentvolle arm kind die speelbal vir talentsoekers, oud skoliere en skole om hulle ego’s graag wil streel. Van al die kinders wat beurse gekry het / gekoop is wat ek ken was ongelukkig arm. So die tendens gaan net aan en aan. Jammer om die stelling te maak.
Ja die gekopery van spelers word altyd deur die verkeerde party afgelag as standaard praktyk wat niks verkeerds is nie. Kopery is ‘n geld issue.
Niemand wil dit erken nie. Talentvolle kinders wie se ouers skoolgelde kan betaal plaas hulle kind waar hulle dink die beste is vir die kind en deur lojaliteit bly die kind daar. Ongelukkig word die talentvolle arm kind die speelbal vir talentsoekers, oud skoliere en skole om hulle ego’s graag wil streel. Van al die kinders wat beurse gekry het / gekoop is wat ek ken was ongelukkig arm. So die tendens gaan net aan en aan. Jammer om die stelling te maak
@Grasshopper: Yip you right. It’s going to move into Primary School and then finally Pre-School
From this drama all a spectator can say is every school is doing this. Not just one school, all of them. Why not just open the door permanently to poaching and buying of kids. Let it be a bun fight, CASH is KING
@Bush: Agreed, the fun needs to return but I feel the horse has bolted on that one…
@Grasshopper: Looked at the %. 9/15 not to bad on ave number of A’s per pupil for GW. KES 12/15. It’s sad that professionalism has moved into schools. Kids need to be kids and have fun at school. After school is time for professionalism
@Bush: If you consider 303 A’s vs 267 as ‘pipped’….
@Grasshopper: Thanks, you just pip KES
@Bush: Bushy bushy bushy, see here; http://schoolboyrugby.co.za/?p=13171
Glenwood isn’t near the top but it’s not near the bottom. This includes all subjects. KES & Jeppe are not that hot on the academic front..
@Grasshopper: Its a little unfair to argue this on kids academic results. It’s not right. I don’t think your mighty school does well in that department. From the schedule Beet posted KES 24th, Parktown 34th and Glenwood 49th. Thats out of 70 schools.
@GreenBlooded: you need to get that detector seen to – it’s obviously faulty
There seems to be quite a lot of smoke around KES, even going back to Scarra days…….what’s that saying again, where there is smoke there is usually fire….
@Tang: Yep, that applies to the colleges (i.e. what we call universities) but I’m not sure re schools. I’m pretty sure that kids are allowed to transfer “up” to schools that play at a higher standard, or in higher leagues. That said, our pro rugby teams recruit from schools, whereas NFL teams recruit from universities, which is why we probably need some rules for schools.
@Vleis In US School sport, if this had happened the two boys would have to wait a year before being able to play for the new school.
US School sport has strict laws about poaching kids. If a school violates the policy, they can be banned from state competition for up to two years.
Each state does have slightly different application of the law but most states are pretty strict.
Parents would have to show the need to move a child. Normally the parents would have relocated. If the schools were in the same school district and competed against each other, there is no grounds for moving the child. US is clear about the move for need and the move for greed,
@Roger:
“All above board”. My bullshit detector just started beeping……..
Somebody is lying through their teeth here, and I think it’s the Hillbrow contingent. Cummon Rog – you gotta admit, it’s dodgy as hell. Replace GW for KES and College for Parktown in this story and your comments would be totally different (as well as totally insufferable).
I think this should serve as a warning to all those who think they are holier than thou in this poaching thing. I think ou GT put it very well many moons ago – the hardest fall is the one from moral high ground. I guess you would know now hey Rog?
Not specifically a comment on the KES – Parktown issue, but consider the following:
1. Why should a kid who’s desperately unhappy at a school have to move provinces in order to leave said school? That’s clearly completely ridiculous.
2. However, schools are using the explanation per 1 above as a smokescreen for genuine poaching.
If memory serves, in US college football, a kid who transfers from one college to another must serve a one year ban from playing. I wonder if this poaching issue will ever be resolved?
@Gungets Tuft: I told you – I’m biased – the straight answer is KES did turn them down 8 months ago and told them to sort their sh#t out with Parktown, and told Parktown too. All above board. When they applied again I guess the feeling was that Parktown had done all they could and it wasn’t enough to convince the boys not to move schools – QED (I do remember some Latin from school
)
@Roger: Not to worry … I don’t think anyone really expected a straight answer.
And no, no emigration for me, nobody will have me. Aus is too flat anyway, no high ground there, how would I manage?
@Roger: Not yet but considering my options. UK is easy, I just walk in but eish living in that weather is kak. Looking at NZ too as my sister is now there teaching at Westlake Boys High. I’ll get some good info on what’s happening there in their rugby set-up.
@Grasshopper: bloody good results Hopper – better than in my day
by the way has Bog convinced you and Gungets to emigrate yet
@Gungets Tuft: I didn’t do Latin at school – I was in the 1st team
@Vin: all true – as I said they had one foot out the door and Parktown could not convince them to stay – and they had plenty of time, opportunity and forewarning.
and those pesky Sharks almost got them
@Vin: I have a feeling Mr Straueli was involved. I think he might have been the one causing the issues at Glenwood too when his son was there…
@Roger: Ahhh .. deflection AND ad hominem in one sentence. Good one. It was always going to be a bit of a stretch I suppose …
@Roger: Cooky did well, finally got his deserved chance. Unfortunately for him it’s only a decade too late. I can only see him providing a stopgap until we can find a good youngster in that opening position. Check out the KES stats here; http://schoolboyrugby.co.za/?p=13171, not the strongest academic performance.
Haven’t read the whole blog yet but seems they were being chased by 2 Kzn schools on behalf of the Sharks (Hilton was one) and then the lions rugby union stepped in. In my opinion these boys had already made up their minds to leave Parktown the challenge was to keep them in the province.
So as a lions supporter I would just like to take this opportunity to thank KES ?
@Gungets Tuft: if my aunty had balls she would be my uncle
How’s the air up there on that pedestal Gungets?
@Roger: Would they have left Parktown if KES had told them they would simply not offer them a spot, due to the long standing relationship between the schools. That is what the Durban boy was told, and he stayed put and was part of a good DHS unit last year. Introduce shades of grey, someone is going to get whipped. Just saying, it is possible for a school to simply say “no”.
@Gungets Tuft: easier said than done, these issues unfortunately contain many shades of grey. KES will tell you hand over heart that they have done no wrong. Parktown will tell you hand over heart that they have been hard done by. I am biased and will tell you that these kids have had one foot out the door for the better part of a year and were told 8 months ago to stay put and resolve their differences. All parties were well aware of their intentions so to feign innocence now is a touch disingenuous.
@Grasshopper: the 1st team was the only team that won- but it was such a massive win for them it didn’t matter, it was actually great witnessing it, the entire school went ballistic.
Quinny banged his head at the same time he banged his knee – wasn’t at his best
But what about Cooky? Has a law degree and century on debut – plenty of grey matter!
@Roger: It’s been done before. A certain Durban school had a boy sending CVs around 2 years ago, was advised by at least one KZN school to go back to his coach and headmaster and resolve his differences. It would have been perfectly legitimate to take the kid on – the approach was not even through an agent – but the better thing was to observe a 100+ year school relationship.
@Roger: Results down the line? Westville used to play them and it got so one-sided the fixture was scrapped..
@Roger: hahahah, I love being wound up. Well done to Quinny on his 100, but jeez that dude’s wires upstairs don’t quite connect. It seems KES might be known for it’s cricket but not really it’s academics. Chatted to a friend who has lived in Jozi her whole life and that seems to be the perception or joke that goes around, KES jocks without any grey matter…
@Grasshopper: um – Parktown actually beat KES last year Hopper – and I’m sure they are thrilled you support them on this matter, but the reality is there is no right or wrong- just different perceptions of the “truth”.
@GreenBlooded: not too concerned whether you take my comments seriously or not. Most of my ragging Glenwood was to wind up old Hopper anyway so apologies if you perceived any different.
@Roger: Ho does it feel when your school is caught with their pants down? I actually support Parktown in this matter, they seem to be holding the moral higher ground. The poor buggers get smacked by KES every year, they have two great talents who could help reduce the embarrassment and then KES go and take them….tut tut.
@Tang: this on the St Stithians Rugby Festival thread:
“PretoriaBoysHigh on 15 January, 2016 @ 12:54
@Tang: Thank you very much for your comments. We take the opinion of our supporters very seriously. Please will you email me at pr@boyshigh.com so we can set up a meeting with our Deputy Headmaster and discuss your concerns. “
@Roger:
You have the most severe case of doublestandarditis in history. You were on fee of the worst commentators when GW were doing the same thing but you double over to make excuses for KES. Hard to take your comments seriously.
@Roger Not intentionally being vocal just curious about the bigger issue.
Agree fully with you about the truth being stranger than fiction. All of this could be totally above board. The Boys could have felt so strongly about leaving Parktown and decided to forego scholarships in favour of paying school fees.
Roger was it Boys High that called me out specifically?
Many meetings have been had at Boys High about different approaches to rugby. Right now, the approach remains the same. No scholarships and coaching led approach. Until this changes, I support the school 100%.
Roger, I can’s answer your last question. I think it is at the heart of the matter. Should School A accept boys from School B?
@Tang: you are quite vocal on this blog aren’t you? I see you still haven’t answered my question further up as to whether you took up Boys High’s offer to meet when you were called out by them on another thread?
The truth is often stranger than fiction.
When a learner does not want to stay at school A, no matter how hard School A try to convince him too – should school B, having observed ALL protocols, (including advising school A of an approach 8 months previously) still decline the application?
@beet What do you think the end game is in this whole debacle?
Let us assume an impasse remains between KES and Parktown. What is the real impact other than the fact that traditional rivals now have a soured relationship.
Do you think this issue could grow? Say Parktown ask other schools to take a stance with them.
Read this paragraph closely:
“This issue is bigger than the two schools involved. We, as a school, believe that the time has come to make a stand against the continued procurement of players between the boys’ schools, either by direct approaches from schools, or through the use of agents.
Bradley is clearly calling for a wider action or sanction in this whole matter. Bradley also seems to anticipate the Lovatt response would be, “KES did not approach the boys directly”. The agent in this case would be the boys father.
People as far away as Cape Town have heard about this matter. If Bradley asks other boys schools to take a stronger stance, I wonder what the potential sanction or further action could be.
Would it be unreasonable for other Boys schools to only play a KES team with Boys who have not been added in such dubious means?
Very clever wording by Lovatt in his letter.
“Neither the Tuition or Boarding fees are being paid for or discounted by King Edward VII School.”
That doesn’t mean another party isn’t paying for the fees. Notice how Lovatt never states the parent is paying the school fees.
A few salient points:
1) If the boys had notified Parktown they were leaving the school, why were they included in first fifteen pre-season training at the end of last year?
2) The fact that KES are not paying the scholarships doesn’t mean they aren’t on scholarships.
3) The fact that KES are not paying the school fees does not make them any less culpable in the whole matter.
4) If KES value the traditional relationship between the schools, why accept the boys? Surely the school has a right to say no. KES must have known the matter would cause a stir and yet they still enrolled the boys.
I think KES have taken the view that it is better to beg for forgiveness and plead ignorance in the matter.
How would Lovatt’s letter read if the shoe were on the other foot?
I say again – There is no honor among thieves. Don’t expect your bedfellows in such matters to behave with an ounce of morality.
Is the real factor behind the saga a more deep rooted desire for the REDS to be ranked among the top 10 in school boy rugby.
What is excluded from the Lovatt letter is more damning than what is included.
Lovatt flat out calls the Parktown headmaster a liar. He claims the schools agreed the boys could leave Parktown and move to KES.
@Gungets Tuft: Bossr has undergone surgery on a shoulder injury.
GLENWOODs junior polo is in a good place right now. College were sharper yesterday having already played a match….BUT full credit to them they deserved the wins. As for the first team…well GLENWOOD were really good.
It was mentioned that the 2 boys are brothers and were selected for the “green squad” last year, thus they probably in grade 11 this year. Being in the GS makes you a highly prized commodity and believe me, there are lots of dealers out there. They were probably convinced that their rugby careers will be better served at a more “traditional” rugby school. If an agent is involved, and I cannot think that there is no agent, money as well as a rugby union is involved. Once money is involved in a move, you can be classified as a mercenary. We all know what loyalty can be expected from a mercenary or those that contract them. All of this is pure speculation without the facts. The move could actually be just for a better opportunity. As @Beet mentioned, at least one of the letters from the 2 schools contain misinformation, maybe both.
Another interesting topic would be the influence that agents have in, not only facilitating but, initiating these moves.
@beet: No scholarship at KES, yet they were on full scholarships at Parktown. At least 2 KZN schools that I know of, apparently at the request of the Sharks, chasing them, and KES are claiming the parents initiated the move. Either the parents were selling, an agent was buying, KES shopping. Otherwise it doesn’t compute. One thing is certain, that there’ll be a lot of huffing and puffing, but nobodies house will get blown down.
@Gungets Tuft: @Grasshopper: He had a recent shoulder op so out of action for the time being.
@Grasshopper: It was mentioned to me but I can’t remember for sure. I think they were in gr.9 and gr.10 at Parktown.
Parktown’s letter suggests they communicated with Gauteng boys’ schools belonging to the charter and got positive replies then got assurances from the parent that the boys would stay at Parktown all the way up to 12 December 2015.
KES’s letter (if authentic) indicated they informed the Parktown headmaster of the enrolment process back in Sep 2015.
The two letters therefore appear to be in conflict with each other.
KES has communicated with their community and will in all likelihood not communicate with anyone else as they do not wish to fuel the fire. They should however consider providing an explanation of how their actions do not contravene the signed charter, since Parktown pointed this out.
@beet: What grade have the two gone into?
I was able to find out that Parktown sent an original letter before the one published in the blog above. KES responded to the original with a letter to their own community. I believe this is the KES letter below but need to confirm it:
RESENDING OF THE LETTER SENT ON MONDAY, 18 JANUARY FROM MR LOVATT. DUE TO A TECHNICAL PROBLEM, SOME OF OUR PARENTS DID NOT RECEIVE THIS CORRESPONDENCE. SINCERE APOLOGIES FOR ANY INCONVENIENCE CAUSED.
RE: The suspension of sporting activities between King Edward VII School and Parktown Boys’ High School: As per the instruction of the Headmaster of Parktown Boys.
THIS EMAIL CORRESPONDENCE IS FOR THE INTENDED RECIPIENT ONLY (KING EDWARD VII PARENTS, KING EDWARD VII OLD BOYS AND FRIENDS OF THE SCHOOL AND IS NOT TO BE DISTRIBUTED TO ANYONE ELSE WHETHER IN A HARD COPY, EMAIL OR ANY SOCIAL MEDIA).
FROM: The Headmaster King Edward VII School
RE: The suspension of sporting activities between King Edward VII School and Parktown Boys’ High School: As per the instruction of the Headmaster of Parktown Boys.
I write to inform you that late on Friday afternoon (15 January, 2016) I received email correspondence from Mr Derek Bradley (Headmaster of Parktown Boys) informing me that he was suspending all sports fixtures against King Edward VII School until further notice. This decision has been taken as a result of two former learners of Parktown being enrolled at King Edward VII School as of 13 January, 2016.
During the course of last week I had been in correspondence with the Headmaster of Parktown Boys’ High School with respect to the enrolment, which started in 2015. The application made in 2015 was communicated to Parktown as early as Sept / October 2015 in a telephone conversation between the Headmasters of these two schools.
We, King Edward VII School, remain firm in our stance that the move between the two schools was legitimate and was initiated by the parent of the two boys. We refute any claim that we poached the two boys in question. Neither the Tuition or Boarding fees are being paid for or discounted by King Edward VII School.
Despite requests from myself to meet and discuss the different views of the two schools, no such meeting has transpired. Parktown Boys’ High School’s decision is obviously very concerning and I will continue to attempt to engage with Mr Bradley in an effort to resolve this most unfortunate incident.
Our relationship with Parktown Boys’ High School has always been highly valued as are our shared traditions.
I will keep the community informed about any further development in this matter.
Yours faithfully
DCP Lovatt
Headmaster
Glenwood 184 all out, College 167 all out, Glenwood win by 17 runs. Order restored
@Gungets Tuft: Very relaxed, just was an fyi. A double was unheard of 20 years ago. Not sure about Bossr, maybe gone back to the Cape? Who knows…
@Grasshopper: Relax big boy, it wasn’t a challenge. I’m sure superiority will be restored forthwith.
What’s happened to Bossr, I see he’s not in the team playing today. Last year ou Umbiloburger told us he was probably going to give up rugby to concentrate of cricket, but he’s not there. He gave up the Kallis scholarship to go to Glenwood, it quite a surprise?
@GreenBlooded: Wait a couple of years for La Marque coaching to kick in, under14’s is usually the first time they playing.
@Grasshopper:
As expected, the Waterpolo was a bloodbath at snr level with Glenwood taking the 1st team match 24-2. What was totally unexpected was the U14A and U15A going to College.
@Gungets Tuft: That must be right, they wouldn’t make it up. It must have been College’s first win in a while,
SPORT vs COLLEGE – 23RD – 24TH JANUARY 2015
CRICKET:
1ST XI
Glenwood: 212 for 8 (Kirkham: 52; Wagener: 51; Veeran: 50)
College: 114 all out (Henry: 3 for 18; Kirkham: 3 for 20)
Result: Glenwood won by 98 runs
8th November 2014
1st XI
Glenwood: 290 all out (Phehlukwayo: 76; Bossr: 66; Kirkham: 48)
College: 256 for 7
Result: Glenwood won by 35 runs
1st March 2014 – won but can’t find the details.
CRICKET vs COLLEGE: 26/10/2013
1ST XI
College: 205 for 8 (Madwe: 3 for 47)
Glenwood: 208 for 6 (Nhlebela: 53; Wissing: 32)
Result: Glenwood won by 4 wickets
CRICKET vs COLLEGE: (Sat 2 Feb 2013)
1st
College: 132 all out (Madwe: 3 for 32)
Glenwood: 133 for 7 (Wissing: 35)
Result: Glenwood won by 3 wickets
@Grasshopper: Apparently since 24th October. Looks like a fairly full day, except for the U14’s only going down to U14G and U15F, had to fill up with Westville.
http://www.maritzburgcollege.org.za/sport/sport-fix-results/results/323-sports-results-vs-glenwood-week-ending-25-october
Can’t find the result on the Glenwood site, hope it’s not a College glitch.
@Gungets Tuft: October? Since when is cricket played in Oct? There have been at least 3 doubles over College in the past 5 years and when I say double I mean cricket and rugby..
@Grasshopper: Just checked. 24th October on Dixons …. my mates boy got a 1/2 century.
@Grasshopper: If I’m not mistaken College beat Glenwood last term??
Not sure what match, where, what form of the game, just remember seeing it?
@Gungets Tuft: enjoy, I believe the Glenwood side is pretty good. Hope we can do the double over College again, become quite a regular occurrence. Waterpolo will be fun too. College will take the basketball
@Grasshopper: Durban city center is no different, nor Johannesburg. I was traveling there and got sucked into town, it was mayhem, but nobody is accusing Johannesburg of dying. It depends where you go and what you’re looking for. What you need to do is zoom out a bit …
Let’s face it, none of our cities are what they were 35 years ago, but inner city deterioration is not a South African thing, not even African, it’s a global phenomenon. We need to be a little more curious when it comes to reasons for things, and a little more energetic. Most often our knee jerk opinion is due to preconception and confirmation bias.
I’m going to try and squeeze some time to head on down to Dixons and watch some cricket, a good mates son is the VC, I’m sure to be able to cadge a cold one …
Most of the bigger KZN schools have boys from all over the province and further, not just from their suburb. Westville, DHS, College, Glenwood, Northwood attract boys from all over province and beyond. Boys who live in Glenwood go to Westville and vice versa. Westville have less than 100 boys in the BE. Strangely boys who come from a Westille home stay in the Westville BE. It all depends on the boy and whether they want to say in a BE or not.
@Gungets Tuft: Surprising because the last time I drove through Maritzburra it was the pits, a real Lagos looking town. It’s like College is in a bubble there behind the walls. Honestly if I lived in KZN my boy would go there or Glenwood BE.
@Grasshopper: No, local residents are not leaving, the population is pretty stable and the school is never less than 250% oversubscribed. The BE is in demand by at least 250% over subscription, hence the decision to increase numbers. Maybe it’s better, all those “mommies” you talk about wont be pitching up with cucumber sarmies and cleanex tissues. They’ll have to stick with Zarms and cement instead.
@Gungets Tuft: Actually my theory does work, Westville have 90% of their kids living in Westville so it’s easy to attend practices etc. Glenwood have kids from as far as the Bluff, Toti, Queensburgh, Margate etc who are not boarders. Anyway, each school has it’s challenges. I remember catching a bus to the Bluff was over an hr so I had to miss some practices. College had to increase boarding, PMB is on the slide so local residents are leaving. I foresee it becoming all boarders within 20 years. Westville have just added Boarding capacity, they had about 20 so now it’s about 100. Need to check with my mate.
@Grasshopper: Its got nothing to do with smaller classes boet, you’ve 9 U14 cricket sides, that’s 100 boys playing cricket, same as College and Westville, but the okes are AWOL at rugby.
You keep on about the size of the BE, but Westville have no BE to speak of, so that’s another theory that doesn’t really work. It’s a challenge, I’m sure Glenwood are equal to it.
And in other news, I believe College are adding another 100 to the BE starting this year with an extra 20 in 2nd Form this year, so each form adding 20 a year for the next 5. Naturally it doesn’t mean a school size increase, just a bigger boarder percentage. I think it’s a good idea, time will tell.
@Gungets Tuft: It does help having double the number of boarders at College & Grey Bloem. But I think 2015 was a once off unless mommies are stopping their little boys from playing. OR Hockey & Basketball are attracting the kids more. I can’t explain it. Glenwood had 214 matrics vs Westville’s 252 and College’s 233, so maybe Glenwood have decided they don’t want such big classes, although the grade 8 intake this year was a healthy 260. I believe they have some awesome athletes in there too.
@Grasshopper: Excellent, so, as on the Glenwood website, “At Glenwood we encourage full participation respective of ability; hence the U14M Team is just as important as the 1st XV”, we can expects to see an U14 rugby side past U14D??
Best you get the Glenwood rugby hierarchy to phone College and give them a heads up, they’re probably working on a co-host fixture list, as we do with DHS, Northwood, to make sure all the lighties get a game
Don’t take it as given, last year the cricket sides went that deep, alas, not the rugby as we know.
Last year only PBHS and Affies gave us matches down the line. Even Westville and GCB weren’t quite up there, but Grey did travel in Term 3, and Westville normally do, so probably once off.
@Bush: thanks Bush – I’m glad they have made some sort of statement! When KES were hauled over the coals for the SACS boy debacle it turned out that the real story was rather different to what was making the rounds.
@Tang: I see on another thread you were invited by Boys High to come in and debate your views – did you take them up on the offer?
@Gungets Tuft: FYI – Under14I cricket team is scheduled to play vs College today
@Tang: Just remember that sponsors logo’s are not necessarily to fund bursaries but costs around the travels and accommodation of the teams in a much more expensive season. A school might go to 3 festivals now and even bussing it is not cheap. Parents don’t always have the tin to fund it. There’s training apparatus to buy, modern scrumming machines cost a bomb, gyms need to be maintained. It’s all very well taking the ultra traditional approach (remember the deep ties and respect between PBHS and College), but there will always be certain minimums that will need to be maintained if you’re going to safely compete. A logo on a jersey to pay for the sponsor is a compromise but hardly the worst of the evils, and it’s disclosed. Much less evident is the back office stuff, the drug and supplement suppliers who has access to lab rats without disclosure, that sort of stuff.
Schools are between a rock and a hard place maintaining balance.
@Tang: unfortunately it’s a true story, Purchasewood has a better ring for Glenwood, but I think they have learnt their lesson. Buy in grade 8 and then let it be, well I hope so. I actually think that has been the case for decades now so no issue with that.
Boys High have just informed parents of potential new fixtures. The new fixtures will be part of the Fantasia trophy. There will be extra points for schools who can make the best pretense of being traditional and having high moral standards.
Boys High will now play KESTOWN and then have another fixture against PARKES.
The fixtures against KES and Parktown will be replaced by the above fixtures.
There is also a rumour circulating about a new school near Malvern. It is called JEPPE***. Apparently there are so many boys on sports scholarships at JEPPE*** that the old school called JEPPE lost its identity and had to find a new more suitable name.
Boys High are weighing up whether to play JEPPE*** because the new school wears the same colours as Jeppe but masquerades as the old school. It is all very confusing but I am sure we will get used to the new fixtures.
Boys High stopped rugby against ***GREY because there was so much advertising on the ***GREY first and second team shirts making it virtually impossible to tackle the players.
Boys High are thankful they don’t have to play GLEN*** and ***PAARLSBOY.
The fixture against ***WESTVILLE is still on but this is a most confusing fixture. ***WESTVILLE have way too much advertising on their kit, have more acquisitions than JEPPE*** but are pretending they offer no scholarships and only have advertising on their kit for the benefit of a local charity.
Boys High have been informed of a so called agreement floating around among the boys schools. Apparently schools are not meant to poach players from their respective opponents. Jeppe, KES, Parktown and Westville are all part of the agreement. Thankfully for these schools, their alter egos are not party to this agreement and they can poach and acquire with impunity.
Long live the fantasia trophy. A world where you can pretend to be something you really aren’t.
There is no honor among thieves.
Those who give bursaries and are into buying players can expect this to happen. Giving sports scholarships is like being pregnant – you either are or aren’t.
Are Parktown right to take a stand? I like the way KES always claim they never approached the boys or are innocent in the matter. KES are quite right about there being two sides to this story – there is the buyers side and the sellers side. This is generally referred to as the law of contract. Without any laws governing school boy acquisitions, there can be no right and wrong. There can only be those that feel aggrieved and those that feel pleased.
Clearly KES don’t feel they can compete with the talent they have and are willing to accept boys with dubious backgrounds. No matter how you look at this, there can be no reason for a boy to leave Parktown and go to KES. You can’t use the, “my parents relocated” nonsense.
Now you know why Boys High is the best boys school in South Africa. academic results and sports results are all down to the boys. No acquisitions, no scholarships to try and improve the sporting image or the academic image.
Morality and ethics are ageless. Once you sell a little piece of your ethical code, the rest will unravel.
@GreenBlooded: I see that you refer to Speartackles “maturity”. He is long past that stage- he is vrotting already.He has changed allegiance since discovering that his fairy tale of 1948, is no more than a fable. Yet again, I see no Free Staters being involved in this human trafficking ! Greyt !
@Bush: not in 93 & 94, we even sent on our then massive under15 prop Barrett Pardey to scrum vs those men, he actually did pretty well. We were very weak in 93,94,95 & 96 maybe winning 10 games only in those 4 seasons….it was hell!
@Grasshopper: You not going down that road again. Flip, the Post Matric’s didn’t make up the entire Rugby Team. It was a mixture of all talents. Be honest back in those days GW had guys that were very well matured in the baard region. I think a few guys use to comb their backs as well.
Any way its History. All schools tried the Post Matric thing, including GW and it saw it’s A$$(Post Matric that is)
@beet: Hi Beet, you 100% correct. He only started in Std8. U15 was his first year at House, got my facts right this time.
Sean Dywer was another that started at Westville but ended up at Hilton, after a few weeks in std 6…
@Grasshopper: I actually remember the Hilton front row names, Lord, Youens and Collins….eish!
Richard Snell repeated matric and matriculated in 1987. He was a member of the KZN Schools cricket team in 1987 that included Rhodes, Beckenstein, Crooks, Stewart, Jack, Goedeke, Nel, Edwards and Snell.
Jeez those post toastie Hilton and MHS sides of the early 90’s were insane, men vs boys. 19 vs 16 in some cases. We actually really didn’t have a chance. The Hilton props had a blue beard from shaving in the morning, it was ridiculous. I’m actually surprised we didn’t lose by more and in fact lost to House in the last secs in 93 or 94…
@beet: Hi Beet. I’m sure he joined MHS in his Standard 7 year. As in Std 8 Giles was their U15 coach. That U14 never won a game. U15 they were unbeaten I think.
@Roger: Here from ENCA News: We refute any claim that we poached these two boys. The two schools remain in communication with our wish to resolve the present impasse,” said KES Headmaster David Lovatt.
Lovatt declined to provide clarity on how the boys moved to KES.
“I have nothing further to add. Please be aware that we are talking about two boys who are minors,” said Lovatt.
@Bush: Hi Bush. I don’t know if the MHS 91 side is the best example there. For example if Benks was referring to his u14 rugby team (called u13 back then) never losing a game, he must have been referring to DHS. He only joined MHS in gr10.
The MHS 2015 team an excellent example tho. Most started at House in Gr 8.
Richard Snell was at DHS in their prime
@Grasshopper: Yes Chris van Noordwyk was at Kearsney. He had serious gas. We matriculated the same year. That was more or less the same time Andrew Hudson, the Logans and Pierce’s started to make a name for themselves.
@Andre T: If i’m not mistaken Snell went to DHS.
@Gungets Tuft: It’s close enough ;-). Interesting fact, prior to the modern era of gym, supplements etc the biggest boy to play at Glenwood was B.G ‘Big Red’ Smith in 1984 at 108kg and 195cm, he would be considered normal or even small these days…
@Andre T: Richard Snell and Steven Jack (Glenwood OB) opened the bowling for KZN Schools one year I believe, could be wrong. Chris Van Noordwyk was also around at a similar time, I think Kearsney. Gosh he was quick. Glenwood had another quick called Duncan Turner…eish. Ex 5FM DJ and cricket pundit Sias Du Plessis was the quickest I saw in the late 90’s with another fella called Rudi de Vry in 1995, both Glenwood Old Boys
@meadows: Hilton crying foul for nothing, they were fielding post-matrics themselves. Speak to one of the 80’s College boys, I think he ran around one of the Hilton post-matrics 3 times in the Goldstones match.
The post-matric era probably cost a College headmaster his job when he held out against the practice. Ironically he then went to a school who had gone for post-matric’s like cane rats on crack.
Bullo Lindsay was in my year and the year after me. Certainly not 21, might have turned 20 in matric but not even sure about that. I think in general we were all a year younger than the current kids – I turned 18 in the November of my matric year. Bullo would have been dwarfed by the current rugby boys.
@Grasshopper: Best you spell his name right then or he will block you on Twitter ..
@Andre T:
DHS
@Roger: Where did Richard Snell go to school?
@meadows: In the 90’s MHS picked up a wonderful player that was released from Kearsney and he ended up playing for SA Schools and I think he captained the SA Schools Side.
@Grasshopper: Glenwood were way ahead of the game so the indignation at the time was universal – now I think everyone is resigned to these stories hitting the press and realize that there is always more to them.
No school has produced more test or international cricketers since readmission than KES (10). DHS still leads the overall list of test cricketers produced though.
Last bowler to play for SA produced by KES was Hugh Page – but you are right, besides Hugh, it is all batsmen and wicketkeepers (De Kock, Vilas, Pothas, Jennings etc)
@Grasshopper: I don’t know too much about the 90’s and I am aware that the post matric system, which was not conceived as a means to bolster sports teams, was ultimately abused at MHS largely through the efforts of an individual who funded an unacceptably large number of Grey CW players in a particular year. As most know this resulted in the cancellation of the return fixture with Hilton and an outcry from OB’s and parents resulting in steps being taken to ensure that there would be no repeat.
Insofar as earlier decades are concerned, I very much doubt that a few post matrics in a ’70’s MHS side (ie 18 year olds at a time when you finished matric at 17 if you had progressed normally) gave MHS any advantage against the big government schools like DHS and College. Craven week sides at that time were dominated by boys who were at least 18 or 19. At that time guys like Mike Barker (DHS), Paul Lindsay (College) and Paul Judkins (Glenwood), or his twin David who was at DHS, were a frightening sight on a rugby field to a 17 year old private schoolboy. This was borne out by the results with only rare victories by any private school against College and DHS who were dominant in that era.
Even the great Danie Gerber, who had the rare distinction of representing SA Schools for three years, was 19 years old when he captained the side in 1977 in his final year at school. Barker was 19 when he played SA Schools in ’78 as was Glenwood Dereck la Marque when he was selected in 1979. I don’t know how old Maritzburg College’s Paul Lindsay, another who played SA Schools for three years, was when he finished in 1977 but he was thought, by us laatjies, to have celebrated his 21st at school
@Roger: Yes, well done to him, deserved the call up. He was unfortunate to be in contention when Alviro Pietesen was the 1st choice. I think DHS might argue being the ‘Grey College’ of cricket too. It seems KES produces batsman but not too many bowlers. I put my money on Andile Phekhulwayo being Glenwood’s next Protea. He has allrounder written all over him.
@Roger: if only you held that same attitude towards the Glenwood ‘poaching’ stories.
@Vin: That long?
I hear it might be 3 musketeers fairly soon ..
but on a brighter note – Go Cooky! He should have been in the team a long time ago. So chuffed for the family – Jimmy puts a massive amount of work into his cricket academy at KES and if you look at the amount of SA Schools, provincial and Proteas players KES are producing it is no wonder they have been described as the Grey Bloem of cricket!
I saw an interesting stat this morning – Stephen Cook and Graeme Smith opened the batting for KES 1st team together – and now Cook makes his debut after Smith has retired
@Grasshopper: @GreenBlooded: There are two sides to every story and somewhere in between lies the truth – so I would like to hear KES’s side of the story first before jumping to conclusions.
I do hope they release a statement because it is not a good read right now. Often these schools maintain an “injured” silence which I don’t believe is the right approach.
@Grasshopper: I think it was just one year they brought in 5 players from OFS. It should be like Old School, prepare what you have in front of you. The next 3/4 years at MHS will be interesting. I was chatting to Benks, their U14 side never won a game. That same side in 1991 lost one game that season. Last years unbeaten side, I understand it was the same story, u14 got smashed by everyone. Therefore developing what you have in your school can be done. I’m not a coach, never been one. It must be the most satisfying thing for a school boy coach, to develop something that was never there.
@Bush: to be fair though House and Kearsney have done well recently due to getting a good intake and then grooming them up to 1st team level. I like that approach as it shows trust and loyalty in the boys who have done the hard work from the beginning.
@Bush: I agree. I wonder why Michaelhouse didn’t think of that in the 90’s, Grey Bloem OB’s sides for a number of years. Also Hilton poaching 2 Glenwood under16 captains in about 4 years. So weird…
What I don’t understand with all this poaching/purchasing call it what you want. Why can’t schools developed what already have? I don’t get.
Where is old whiter than white Roger Dodger?
@Rugger fan: hahaha so then fees would only have been till next transfer season.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qx6YN-Phvng. Friday morning fun…
@Vin: Vin – your fees would have been getting it in the neck from all of us for the next 10 years
– or until GW hits the headlines again and we can bash them 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpIcwctC7nQ
2.20 into the clip!
@Grasshopper:
Bloody Agent!
@beet: If that boy moved to KES
1. Would I have been seen as an agent and
2. What fees could I have claimed????
@Rugger fan: it’s a deleted name. It appears on the original letter.
Just a clarification – the **** in the post above – is that a deleted name – or is there a footnote missing?
@Vin: Maybe time to pull out the old recruitment scorecard again http://schoolboyrugby.co.za/?p=10248
I think the ‘agent’ played a big part in this. Maybe agreements must be reached with agents and schools.
Just a quick note last year I was approached by an active Parktown old boy and parent, to help try persuade his son (grade 9) to move from Parktown to KES because he was hating Parktown and in the old boys words ‘he and his son are not happy with the state of Parktown’. The boy wanted to move to boarding school in KZN and he didn’t want him to leave home so hence trying to get him to come to KES. The boy landed up at DHS. How would that move had read?
@GreenBlooded: @Gungets Tuft: yes very interesting comment. It would be great if all could be revealed about the extent of the Sharks or any other union’s involvement in recruiting players for schools.
The only KZN school name that I could link the boys too so far is Hilton but that came via Greg Miller’s name being mentioned and he is not a Sharks official. Since the Lions won the GK Week 2015 and that event is a trade fair for recruiters, it’s not hard to believe that many schools officials showed interested and identified Parktown as an easy target. I was told there was apparently a lot of interest from various schools outside Gauteng. The GLRU wanted to keep the boys so put in a big effort. Both Parktown and KES have coaches on their books who are linked to the Lions coaching structures so hard to read anything into this.
@Wyvern: Also had a larger than normal private school intake at grade 8 from The Ridge,Pridwin,St Stithians,StPeters,St Davids,Trinity,Reddam and Crawford.
@Wyvern: St Peters(grade 11), St John’s(grade 9) and St Stithians(grade 10) not sure about the others.
@Vin: Do you know which private schools they came from?
One of these brothers has huge potential. From what I’ve heard he is tall and runs a 100m in 10.5s. A few in the know believe he is in the same SBR player category as Wandile Mjekevu was at the same age, so the rugby unions will be chasing him hard for a signature once he turns 18.
Don’t know enough about it to comment but what I do know is the boys are brothers so to say they approached 2 boys sounds a bit more dramatic. Also had a few private school boys move to KES and this unfortunately is more ‘a sign of the times’.
Where is out resident KES blogger’s input on this nonsense?
I’m interested to hear is opinion in light of his constant vilification of a certain KZN school allegedly involved in similar practices.
Roger – are you out there son?
@GreenBlooded: And how the Sharks plan on that much heralded initiative to rebuild relationships with KZN school. When it was announced this is not quite the plan that I expected. I had “loyalty” in mind. I am a silly billy
The message – if you’re a talented player in KZN, hedge your bets, because the union is going to go shopping and bully the schools (or fund them, or promise them CW slots????) if they take the kids in.
“When the SHARKS union wanted to place them in a KZN school………”
I’d love to hear the full story of how this works. It could be very instructive to understand how many other high-profile cross border moves took place where the high school they were placed in took the brunt of the fall-out.
I don’t want to bump into Andrew van Zyl wearing KES attire
Disappointing that a school the size of KES and with the facilities they have, feel the need to go about things like this.
Surely, even if it was a third party that offered to get the two boys in, there must have been a better way to handle this than for the headmaster of KES to play innocent?
Surely the history and tradition between the two schools weigh more than a few good rugby results (assuming these boys add value to the 1st XV)?
After incidences like this i actually can’t wait for the likes of Affies to visit KES and do a repeat of 2015….
@Grasshopper: We are
@Die Ken: eh eh, Paul Roos ain’t Angels either, I promise you that…
@Grasshopper: @Speartackle: Not as bad as when GW “loaned” a player from Cape Town for the Easter period.
@Speartackle:
That puts you in line for the Siyabonga Tom mature student bursary.
@GreenBlooded: I’m doing my matric here
Every 5-6 years you have to gallop with the mustangs on the wide open prairies
My son played cricket at Parktown on Sat and this story was doing the rounds then. Apparently, the two boys did not turn up at leadership camp, so Parktown sent a letter to many local schools (including KES) asking if they could shed any light on the matter…but received no reply. Then, when school started they popped up at KES.
@Speartackle:
How is skoonma? And why have you got a Gaarsies jersey?
@Speartackle: You obviously are not a loyal person then, some like Bill Clinton just can’t help themselves…..I can look but no touchies!!
@Grasshopper: I’ve said that 4 times already……..
@Speartackle: Nope, until death do us part. I am not part of the ‘throw away’ generation. I will be loyal to my wife to the end…
@Grasshopper: It is sad but it is happening all over. The quest to be the best and to win at all costs know no loyalty…….even husbands trade in their formal loyal wives for new and better talent………you’ll also get to that stage…lol
@Speartackle: That is the attitude of schools buying & poaching players. Is there no loyalty to those boys who have worked hard for 4 years prior. I hate this sort of horse trading…..
Train harder…….run faster…….
@Playa: I only half heard it as i was rushing out but from what i could gather a KES first XV player wrote in and said that two Parktown boys had arrived and there was some displeasure amongst the other players with their inclusion into the squad….
@Speartackle: Eish
hopefully none
I wonder how many from Dale ‘enrolled’ ?
@Wyvern: Nope! What did he say in the letter?
Listening to 702 Radio yesterday morning a current KES XV player wrote a letter to the station about this. Did anyone else hear this?