Thank you to well-known blogger Grasshopper who done the time consuming research on the matric results of:
KZN: Glenwood, DHS, Northwood, Maritzburg College, Westville Boys’, Westville Girls
Gauteng: KES, Jeppe, Pretoria Boys High, Jeppe
Free State: Grey College
Eastern Cape: Grey High
Western Cape: Rondebosch, SACS, Paul Roos
and produced this detailed and very interesting table below:
Please note stats taken from EWN website data.
(Click on table to enlarge)
@Grasshopper: Well, if you read the article by Bertus De Villiers, which I recommended further up, it really confirms his prognosis. Here is the link for the English translation: why-we-are-white-refugees.blogspot.com/2010/01/anc-stole-my-dream-why-i-emigrated.html
In your case, GW being an English medium school, MAYBE one can somehow seek justification for those numbers, but those figures are representative of many Afrikaans medium schools as well. Far more people have left the country than they care to admit and if it were not for the depressed state of the world economy, even more would have done so.
@BOG: I’m helping arrange our 20 year Reunion and of the 220 in my year about 80 are in Aus, 40 in NZ, 40 in the UK, 4 deceased and 36 in SA, it’s shocking. Our table will only be 20…
@Gungets Tuft: I told or advised Hopper to read “Aussiekaners” as a source of information. I would suggest that you do so as well, not to persuade you you one way or the other, but to see how the SAs, despite the challenges and the problems, have adapted to Oz. And the real desperation of those, particularly with children, who cannot leave. And by the way, Im saying this as someone who is in SA and will probably remain here- with no exit plan. Too old, too poor, too unskilled, too ugly— But Im certainly encouraging the young people to seek opportunities elsewhere, especially the ones with children. And opinion polls indicate that they want to leave-67% white, 59% Indian, 47% Coloured,even 37% Black (goes back 2 yrs and % estimated) Oz is a very egalitarian society-almost classless, and its one of the things not liked by many SAs, especially Mrs Toffee nose, who attaches a lot of importance to her husbands occupation and the car they drive. There, it has no baring on who you are. Bottom line- most SAs who are now in Oz, are extremely happy there, notwithstanding a wide range of challenges
@Gungets Tuft: oh yes, I have not ‘effectively measuring’ things for about a year. Those were my gut feel opinions, not factual. I don’t believe any forecast is based on fact…
@Gungets Tuft: agree, having done 13 years in the UK and visited 50 plus countries I think I have an idea of what it’s like. SA is awesome BUT it has some very very serious issues, things one cannot ignore any longer. I too have a Jersey & Isle of Man accounts. Our little bubbles of safety here will burst, time will tell. Glad you have an exit plan
@BOG: Is your son not subject to that emigration syndrome you talk about??? Just a little.
Of course I don’t stash money under my mattress, I keep
It in a cardboard box in Jersey…
I had dinner with a mate from Australia last night, left here 5 years ago. He did nothing to encourage me that being in Aus would make me happy. He’s a sociable bugger, no Aussie mates. Socialists with fellow Saffers only. He’s seen 1st world and likes the efficiency of it all, but there’s no joy.
I’m not blind, I’ve got my plans, but right now, with all its problems, FOR ME, South Africa is where I want to be. If people don’t feel like that, I have no issues whatsoever if they decide to leave. But then they should travel eyes front, not looking over the shoulder pointing out how our mother dresses is funny. Eyes front. Access t your reasoning is fine and don’t try to convince me you’re right, I’m not important in that decision. Peace.
@Gungets Tuft: You have decided that you will remain in SA, come what may. And ito migration, it is common that people who have made a decision, either way, try to justify it by taking everyone else along with them, be it emigrating or remaining. Your comment, “fairly stable financially”, tells the story. Do you stash dollars and Pounds under your bed? Fact of the matter, is that we are being given teaspoonsfull of propaganda or conditioning daily and we do not always realise the constant decline. But as Hopper says, its there. I consider myself as being a close observer and sensitive to changes, but even I am reminded by the quite dramatic decline by my son who occasionally visits SA. He sees it because of his extended absences from the country.
@Grasshopper: Add the measure part please. You’ve left it so open that you can justify anything. Water …. “What” in 3 years. Same with power … what measure? NSC …. what …. “Not worth the paper….” doesn’t cut it.
As for the basket comparison ….. come now, you’re a statistics and effective measure kind of guy …. some real data please.
Broadband … human right ….. you’re worried about bandwidth and speed when some people didn’t eat today and are sleeping out in the Durban rain. Skewed priorities much??
@Gungets Tuft: Mate, food has gone through the roof in 10 years. 10 years ago a trolley in SA cost a third of what it would in the UK, now it actually costs more than in the UK. Locals don’t see the increases as they go up gradually. When you come back home from the UK you actually get quite shocked.
My timeline;
Sport – within 10 years, without international coaching or a drop of quotas.
Schools – 5 years, NSC won’t be worth the paper it’s written on
Exchange Rate – 25 to the dollar by 2019
Water – 3 years
Power – already happening
I’ll add another, broadband – it’s farcical currently. Really it should be a basic human right in these modern times. Telkom is pathetic..
@Grasshopper: Well, you’re never going to pay off the cars and house if you keep on shopping for chicken at Woolies. Just saying …
It’s not as if things were relatively cheaper, salary vs expenses, 10 years ago. Despite the apocalypse things are fairly stable financially.
@BOG: “General ignorance” .. .is it just because they don’t agree with you?
Why not write down your timeline now.
Sport collapse – 2 years and we’ll be pooled with Namibia and Zim in rugby
Schools collapse ..
Exchange rate USD and GBP vs Rand 2016, 2017, 2020
Collapse of water –
Collapse of power –
It will help us all plan our escape from hell …
@Grasshopper: And its not exactly if NZ and Oz are freezing. Go and read the comments on “Aussiekaners”-most comments are English and “South Africans migrating to Australia” Always good to hear the opinonions of those who have and still are, going through the process, including problems
@BOG: I’m astounded at the naivety of some people. They say Óh yes, heard about the collapse of SA many times, we will ride it out’. This time it’s not as easy at that. One cannot control the global economy and an idiot of a president doesn’t help. If I’m feeling the pinch already and I am paid very well, then what is the man in the street thinking. I mean there is remaining positive and then there is just plain stupid. Warmth and sun vs financial security….hmmm
@Grasshopper: A duck goes for R300. And even if you have paid everything, that does not help if everything around you, has collapsed. Housing estates and modern shopping malls gives a false sense of security and many are going to wake up too late.And just for your information, Im not an emigration agent for Oz or NZ. Im just stunned by the general ignorance about the truth of SA.
@Gungets Tuft: for okes like you who have paid your bonds, cars & kids are through school and varsity it makes no sense to leave.
@Gungets Tuft: I will, but not decided yet. When you paying R200 for a chicken, please whatsapp a pic of the label. I saw a spatchcock chicken at Woolies for R140!
@Grasshopper: Send us a postcard. It looks like only upside for you.
Wild West! http://www.pharside.co.uk/videos/south-african-traffic-officer-shot-whilst-issuing-fine/
@BOG: I don’t need to be right. I’m planning for both scenarios. It’s why I said, way back, that the didn’t have the energy for this. My spurt of energy is gone. Peace.
@Gungets Tuft: Well Aus and NZ are renters markets, nothing wrong with that. You need a 20% deposit and anything decent starts around $700,000, so $140k which is a huge amount especially in rands. Schooling is free so if we say private schooling will be around R300k a year in 10 years for me that will be 2x 300k, so 600k per annum or 3bar over 5 years at high school plus the primary school fees. It’s actually a massive saving. If going to the beach, malls etc without dangerous taxi drivers, beggars at the traffic lights, car guards etc is not a great lifestyle then I don’t know what it. NZ is considered the most beautiful country in the world with plenty to do outdoors, including skiing in winter then I’m OK with that….knowing my wife is safe taking the kids out of the car at malls then again I’m happy…
@Gungets Tuft: I hear the word “lifestyle” quite often when the “advantages” of SA are mentioned. The first question you need to ask, is if that is sustainable? I dont think so. Often I hear about SAs abroad, who miss this or that in SA. Fact is, we who are IN SA, miss those things too. As far as housing in Oz is concerned, yes it is expensive, but I have just read a post on “Aussiekaners” of the wife, expressing her gratitude (and relief)of getting the opportunity to live in OZ. They went over, not with much money, and a year later, they have bought a house. Fact of the matter, is that emigration is not for the feint hearted. Apart from the rediculous costs involved- agents, visas, assessments, shipping ect, it can set you back about K250. In addition, it takes courage, not cowardice as they are often accused of. Just a few comments regarding Africa. Your reasons for SA not becoming another failed state, is not quite valid. Many African countries actually started off well, but after the African honeymoon, which lasts on average about 15 yrs, things went pear shaped. SA, having inherited a more sophisticated economy, was always going to take 8-10 years longer- and we are on course. Here are a few comments regarding Martin Merediths book.”What went wrong?How did Harold Mac Millans “winds of change”, turn into Tony Blairs “scar on the conscience of the world”?What happened to this vast continent, so rich in resources, culture and history, to bring it so close to destitution and despair in the space of two generations” Publishers Weekly: “Meredith paints a truly horrifying picture, where opportunities are invariably squandered, and ethnically motivated killings and predatory opportunism combine to create an infernal downward spiral of suffering and mayhem(which Western intervention only serves to aggravate)” As one SA liberal writer said” I can see the writing on the wall-its very clear, I just hope that Im reading it incorrectly” That was a few years ago- and he now lives in Oz.
@Grasshopper: I’ve got mates that have left, their standard of living is nothing like they had here, not even close. The Aussie guys can’t afford to buy houses, I know of only one who thinks he has a prospect of owning his own house. He’s in Brisbane, works for PWC and is 40. He styled here, serious home in Sunningdale, 2 new BMWs, 2 kids in private school, wife didn’t work. Missus now works, one car and public transport, might have saved enough for a house deposit in another 5 years.
There are advantages, but financial prosperity isn’t one, so the cars, bonds and food costs are going to be on the boat with you. If you can’t be content here, it’s not in your luggage either. Sorry
Also remember once you have obtained Kiwi citizenship you can live & work in Aus too
@Gungets Tuft: I hear you guys, but with 2 kids under 4, 24 years left on a bond & 5 years left on car payments any increase in interest rates would eat into my disposable income. The income isn’t increasing as much as the price hikes. Plain economics are going to drive young families like us away. I’ve been to Aus, impressed with Perth but not Sydney. NZ looks an amazing place to bring up a family to me, free excellent schooling, safe, secure & lots of outdoors to explore.
@BOG: I also came back from a year in the UK in December 1987. I can’t remember what rate I got at the BdC, I just know they were very happy to exchange pounds for rands, and that customs didn’t find the rather large sum of money I had under the inner soles of my scruffy shoes.
@Grasshopper: You don’t have to leave, make sure a decent proportion of your money does. I no longer contribute to a pension here, but I ship a decent some to an account in Jersey every month. It’s a geopolitical currency hedge.
@BOG: Is there a single good reason why it will go the way of Africa. I can think of :
1. Peaceful transition of power
2. The years of Nelson Mandela playing peacemaker
3. The TRC
4. BEE and AA crating a significant black middle class
5. Our constitution backed by what is still, surprisingly, an independent judiciary
Will it be enough. No idea. Does it help me to panic about it, no. Does it stop me mitigating the risk of TAB happening, well no, because I have and still do. That’s not pessimistic, it’s prudent. I would do that no matter where I lived.
I refuse to be paralyzed by it, or breed fear about it. I’ll hope for the best and plan for the worst, and live my African life to the hilt, along with my kids. My kids get back from Australia on Friday, their first solo international trip, I’ll encourage them to travel, and that will have consequences one way or another. I suspect my son will disappear and I’ll get sporadic updates from wherever. My daughter will come back to SA and settle in. Ironically my son will not leave because of an ounce of racism or Afro pessimism, just wanderlust. I’ll make sure I’ve taken care of business enough to find them wherever they go. And come back to my old boy reunions till they have to carry me in, because I’m certain they will continue till then.
@Gungets Tuft: I happen to have returned to SA from the UK in 1987- the date you mention. Seven years prior, I paid R1,69 for my few Pounds. In 1987, I cris crossed London, visiting all the Burauxs (?) de Changes to get the best rate for cash. I got ZARs at the fantastic rate of R3,20. And you say it coincided with a capital outflow? How things have changed?
@Grasshopper: In general, I found the country gloomy and boring. The adults were fixated on rules, while the kids were poorly behaved.
It reminds me of Germiston…but minus the action.
Oh…and the women are exceptionally plain (as my mum would say) – at least five std deviations from the mean.
@Cappie: I hope that with the “positive”, you dont mean that notwithstanding the writing on the wall, and the facts before you, you remain optimistic. Thats not being positive- its political blindness
@Grasshopper: If you can live through a Cape Town winter, you can live in NZ as well. And if you go to FB pages like “Aussiekaners”, going by the hundreds of comments, 98% of those SAs living there, are happy and determined to stay, even through difficulties. You can also google “Bertus De Villiers” and read his article of 2010. There are translations available. Emotions left aside, he is very objective. I have a very simple question. Is there a single reason why things would end up differently to that elsewhere -Kenia, Tanzania, Malawi, Zambia, Zim, Angola, Mozambique? Not a single one. Read the book by Martin Meredith, “The State of Africa-A History of 50 years of Independence” Brilliant, accurate and something to keep as a reference. He is a liberal, but surprizingly objective too.Economist are tied up in spent old economic models and frustrated and unable to explain the phenomena around us. Throw them out of the window. I thought that I was a bit pessimistic with my prognosis of a 5-6 yrs collapse, but then I saw the scenarios of several(more) respected commentators- all around 2 yrs.
@Vleis: why is that? My sister is absolutely loving it. She lived in the UK for 13 years before moving there
@Grasshopper: I’ve only visited NZ twice for ten days each time, so am not an expert on that country. However, based on my limited experience, it would be near the bottom of the list of english speaking emigration destinations.
@BrotherBear: I kind of agree with that, 20 year cycles. 70 to 1 or a move to the dollar as a currency will happen by 2030. We will definitely see fewer Land Rovers, Porsche Cayenne’s and like on our street in 5 years from now. I think it’s time I used my ‘get out’ card, pack by bags and head off to either Mud Island or the land of the long white cloud asap
@GrasshopperAnything from 5 to 20 years, dependent on the source and extent of pain. In terms of economics; Some views have commodity corrections by 2017. Mike Schussler has the R:$ rate at 70 by 2030 with continuous pressure on our economy during that period. For the average man in the street in RSA, at least the next 25 years will be TOUGH. And that is dependent on political and economic upside changes in the next 10 years.
But – what do the experts say?
@BrotherBear: How long is a cycle in your opinion?
Agree with @Cappie, but also believe that to effect change you sometimes need a bit of pain and the right environment. Whilst there are no quick fixes, we will have to get used to tighter belts, being smarter and making the right decisions (read: voting for success) in the short term. The country will however need at least two more cycles of pain before things change meaningfully.
https://blog.fnb.co.za/2015/10/dont-let-the-rand-rattle-you/
I am stunt by the views of the bloggers. Interesting views indeed. I am pleased with the positive thoughts, especially from our KZN contemporaries. On the contrary Bog may be a bit more realistic about things, however, and hopefully he is over-exaggerated to some extent.
The question to ask is; who is running the Country? Is it Zuma, Parlement, the Institutes that want to downgrade us or the media? Or, is it a combination of all? Bog is for sure right in saying the blame cannot be solely put on Zuma, but I think by replacing him, may have an influence on perceptions, which may turn things around. This may have a positive effect on all the others. In the meanwhile Malema is making name for himself, which emits danger…
My biggest concern at the moment is the draught, which will have its effect from the middle of the year until the middle of next year. We are definitely in for some tough times.
As South Africans we have overcome many challenges and wars in the past. It is time to stand together in what will most probably be our biggest challenge ever. We need a plan…
@BOG: Not going to argue with the financial predictions, I think Junk is upon us and will start the second biggest exodus of investment after the international disinvestment of 1987-1988 when the disinvestment campaign was at it’s peak, followed shortly by the realization by the Nats that their days were at an end. Capital flight is one thing, rising interest rates the other. That’s not a good thing as you point out, and only a lunatic would have all his investments in South Africa. I’m still hopeful with the current younger generation, but I understand your historical view.
However – your outlook for SA sport is overly pessimistic.
” I still maintain though that SA should do well in the 3 Nations, in about 3-4 years from now, along with Zimbabwe an Namibia.”
I think you’re wrong there, and the RWC in 2019 will prove that.
@Grasshopper: Precisely. He spoke to the Rand Lords and was well received. Scum of course- they would sell their mothers for a penny. As much as some try to be politically correct, with 119 race based laws and sections, one cannot ignore the demographic realities. If they have 119 laws when the white population is 9%, how many will they have if it dwindles down to 1 or .5%?.And here it is. Recently, it was announced that half of SAs population, is now under age of 25 yrs. In less than 2 yrs, 1/3 rd will be under 18. In 15 (short) yrs from now, every group of 100, between ages 0-24 yrs, will consist of 91 black, 7 “coloured”, 1 Indian and 1 white (according to Clem Sunter) From there onwards, that ratio, will become greater , ie 1:200, 1:300 after a further 12, 10 yrs— And I say all of this, with my favourite girl, 30 month old baby, orphan from 2 Zim aids victims, who I raise with as much love as my own. But you cannot ignore realities or the history of Africa
@BOG: Boggie, you spot on mate. We can no longer live with our heads in the sand and think it will all just go away. Julius Malama is gaining power. I heard he spoke to a group of businessmen in London, coming across cool, calm, collected and educated. The uneducated will turn to him and the EFF if they are left penniless and hungry. His promises of land re-distribution etc will be popular amongst the majority. What we really need is privatisation of parastatals asap, but I just don’t see that happening. The future looks bleak currently..
@Grasshopper: @Grasshopper: Just one lesson, if I may. For yourself- not for me, define “positive” (or negative for that matter) In politics, there is NO room for those terms- only reality. And that reality you get from the truth, the indicators around you, leading to a realistic prognosis of 5yrs, 10 yrs and 15 yrs from now— Almost as simple as the weather report. If the weatherman predicts a cold front, he is not being “negative”-just realistic.
@Cappie: Dagse Cappie, en n mooi jaar vir jou ook. But for the benefit of the comrades and colonials in the Zulu kingdom, let me respond to your question in the English vernacular.With all the challenges facing this country, let me just concentrate on one-for the moment. Only a miracle can prevent SA from being downgraded to junk status( ROMMEL-en ek praat nie hier vd Duitse genl. nie) When that happens, fund managers are compelled to divest from SA to protect their investors. This will lead to the greatest flight of capital this country has ever seen. If you think the ZAR is weak now, wait until then—. Internationally, the US with $18 Trillion debt and China showing serious cracks, things look serious and in my opinion, can only get worse. I have irritated some, probably most, with my “prognosis” for rugby in SA.Truth is that it, along with cricket, is in a shambles. And its to be expected, given the political interference and rubbish status of our currency. I still maintain though that SA should do well in the 3 Nations, in about 3-4 years from now, along with Zimbabwe an Namibia. And of course, eventually, it will impact on school rugby. And lets stop blaming Zuma for all the problems. Much of what we now see, began its decline 20 years ago. The scary thing is that most of Zumas legacy, still lies ahead Is this Speartackle in the Garsfontein jumper,the original one from Vrede, or an impostor? Lastly, the conditions in most schools,given the plans of the regime to group city and township schools together, will continue to decline. Only a select few, will survive as “centres of excellence”- so the options for parents will become less. And here I feel for the “late developers”who were always well catered for in the “platteland”. Only the exceptions (schools) among them will survive. Heartsore ! All this, in my very humble opinion, of course. Mooi loop- mag julle n goeie seisoen beleef- nie heeltemal so goed soos Grey sn nie, maar goed !
@GreenBlooded: I know you didn’t, I probably did, can’t be bothered to browse back and see who did, in case it was me
@Gungets Tuft:
Ok. I didn’t start it though……
@GreenBlooded: Over a beer. Ou Speartackle is going to hunt me down and beat me if I don’t stop this now.
Certain subjects are not suited to discussion on blogs – this is one.
@Playa: Yep and my gran is currently 95, so there are some long life genes in there…
@Grasshopper: On the bright side, your grandfather made it to his 90s, right? All not lost.
@Gungets Tuft:
I think the #FeesMustFall protest was refreshingly different to to those that have gone before – perhaps exactly because it had a valid point to make – unlike the other arbitrary nonsense that serves as the spark. Still, there were sporadic acts of violence and intimidation which cannot be condoned.
You can normally set your watch by the onset of student protests. I’ll bet you a beer and a bunny-chow at the bowling club that come mid-Feb, there will be nationwide VIOLENT student protest over an issue still to be decided. There will be burning, smashing, intimidation, assault, looting and (in a disturbing new trend) – throwing of human excrement. It’s like the waxing and waning of the moon, an annual campus tradition if you will. Really not the learning environment I want to send my kids into and not the product that I’d like to employ one day.
@Gungets Tuft: My ballie only lived to 62 so for me I am feeling old. My goal is to live way past that age..
@Gungets Tuft: Too true
@Grasshopper: Boet, you’re just out of nappies …. I will be 40 years next year. I haven’t aged a day … some of the other bar-stewards in my year are bloody ancient ..
@Gungets Tuft: Actually feeling quite old, it’s our 20 year Reunion in April, playing Kearsney at home on the Sat…..eish time flies!
@Playa: Which is why the ZumaMustFall campaign is fatally flawed. Yes, it will be good for South Africa if he goes, because he was the architect of the structures that we see now, put in place to make sure he is protected and enriched, but mostly to ensure that he is not prosecuted once he is no longer protected.
But – what happens if Zuma goes and the corrupt structures remain in place, with another figurehead taking over where he left off. We will be worse off.
So, forget about Zuma – and focus on the problems. Cronyism, corruption, (unqualified)cadre deployment, rampant civil-service growth in both numbers and cost, malfunctioning para-statals (mostly due to the above). Bring those down, dig away at the dung heap that has been built for Zuma (and others) to stand on, and they will fall as a result. It will also never be able to be dressed up as racism – which is the lifeblood of the Zuma supporters right now. Don’t give them oxygen by making it about a person – make it about a problem.
I’m done. Too busy in what is going to be a tough year (my primary client has taken a 30% knock in their share price in 12 months, so best I be looking after their interests [selfishly])
@Playa: There is a breaking point with tolerance levels, I think I have finally reached that point. SA is amazing and I do like the continuous change, but really Nenegate was the final straw for me. I lost a huge amount of cash in that move. It’s all well and good living in our secure estates and bubbles, but with a 16% increase in electricity, interest rates inevitably increasing, food & petrol increases etc it’s just not going to be doable any longer. The poor will get poorer and with hunger will come more crime. It’s hugely disappointing for me as I came back with lots of hope…
@Grasshopper: Remember that dumb asses like Zuma don’t last forever. If the grapevine is to be believed, he will be out before the end of this year. Yeah, him (and others) have inflicted a lot of damage, and the repair work may take some time to be completed. But what we need is a citizenry that would rather be part of the solution rather than sit back and wait for the politicians to ‘get it right’. I think what GT went through to get his moment of awakening
is something more South Africans need to go through. A lack of understanding is what leads to these perceptions that the poor are just exaggerating their circumstances to get a hand out. I can imagine how the middle-upper class population felt when Zuma said that the market reaction to Nenegate was an exaggeration – they must have been livid. That is the danger of ignorance.
Thanks Kosie and GT, good to hear some positive people. However, I just can’t take the risk of waiting and then the rand ends up 50 to 1 to the dollar and we cannot afford to put bread on the table. Realistically it’s going to take another decade for real change at gov level. There is the EFF & Julius hovering high to swoop in and take over, especially when half the country is starving. Private schooling is going to cost 500k a year within 10 years. The negatives are starting to outweigh the positives, and remember I returned from the UK 3 years ago when the rand to pound was 13 to 1. I have travelled to over 50 countries and SA is still tops, but unfortunately dumb asses like Zuma seek to destroy it…
@Grasshopper: Despite the challenges here you will find it hard to match your standard of living anywhere else. As you say, it’s not everything though.
I can’t answer your questions for you. My kids are currently in Australia. My daughter enjoys the order and general obedience. My son misses the chaos and vibrancy of South Africa. My daughter went to a girls only private school, day student. My son was a boarder in a government school and has adapted to Africa better.
I’m positive about SA, but I’m not blind to the challenges, so I hedge my bets. I have offshore investments to hedge against currency decline and geopolitical risks, because there are no long term guarantees anywhere. Americans thought that before the financial crisis, look where that got them. The point of my message was more about current pessimism, about student protests primarily, about Zuma must fall second. We’ve just got to be careful what message we take as reality as well as how we react. You’re a lightie, relax, you’ve got time.
@Grasshopper: To stay or not to stay, if I may paraphrase.
I understand your feelings and emotions. I too have a “get out card” as you put it. Having been born in the UK and having the passport and all that, I made up my mind some time ago to stay here. We truely have a remarkable country. Nowhere in the world will you find what you are looking for, so make the best of what you have.
Visit the world and keep reminding yourself why you stay in this beautiful country. You will find peace with your emotions once you have made that transition
@Gungets Tuft: I agree with you, SA will come out of the end of the tunnel, but for someone like me with a 3 year old and an 8 month old do we hang in there through the storm and hope it comes right or do we take our ‘get out card’ and move to the UK or NZ away from the issues. I honestly change my mind every hour on it, it really is a tough one….lifestyle vs safety/security/1st world…..
@Cappie: Same to you Cappie, I hope 2016 doesn’t turn out as badly as the popular press would have it, for it the thought, how would they sell paper. To insulate myself I’m going to confine my Twitter feed to real informed commentators, cut Facebook down in the same way.
Following the FeesMustFall protest as closely as I did was a real watershed for me. I started out getting pictures from my daughter of barricades at Rhodes, tyres burning. My reaction was typical “establishment”, with all
That goes along with that. It took my 21 year old daughter and her friend to get me to take a breath. I started reading the Rhodes SRC Facebook site, subscribed to a few Twitter feeds, ActivateOnline, Redi Tladi, others who were right in the middle. Then I just listened, shut up with comments and suspended a little preconception and tried to understand the students gripes. It took the case of one girl from Limpopo to jolt me awake to the issues facing many students. This girl had excellent marks, easily qualified for Rhodes, but was financially stuffed. NSFAS is a mess and takes too long to pay out. The Rhodes mandatory initial payment is 50% of fees and residence. I can’t remember the amount but it’s in the order of R40,000. To pay fees her parents and extended community all clubbed together but we’re still forced to go to micro lenders for that, then pay it back at punitive rates. Cutting the story short, the pictures that were posted when the MIP was done away with made me cry. This protest was about real stuff, not an entitlement culture. It was the difference between studying and not. About phoning their parents and telling them that they could relax a little, that they would not suffer as they had been. But I had to shut up moaning and watch, and listen, and understand that it’s a privilege to be able to tap a home loan to pay fees, to go to a regulated bank and get a student loan. It’s a privilege to have my daughter home 4 times a year. Some of these kids don’t go home at all, and are kicked out of res during holidays. Some are lucky enough to be able to find a bed in a digs, like my daughters, during holidays or they sleep in shelters in the township in Grahamstown. I’m not stating it too strongly to say that I’m permanently affected.
When I say that I don’t have the energy for this, it’s because I’m just tired of people like me, preconceived ideas, unwilling to be still for a time and learn. I can imagine 1/2 the bloggers reading this and thinking its a load of twaddle, so be it, but it might explain my thoughts that follow.
I think we give too much time, effort and oxygen to noisy attention seekers. The press is full of them, politicians mostly, but through all walks of life who don’t scratch beneath the surface. We’re not generous enough when considering others opinions and always attribute the worst motives. These students, the massive majority of them, are much much better than they’re being given credit for. If SA can hang on till they’re in decision making positions, we are going to be in a good spot.
2016. It’s going to be tough economically, this we know.
Schools – I think there’ll be little change. The bad ones will stay bad. The good ones will stay good. I think that the good ones need to increase their social responsibility programs. Offer facilities and skills to help out the kids that are not fortunate to get spots at our great schools. There’ll be those who think it’s a government responsibility, rightly, but in the absence of that … we risk government stepping in to make themselves look good. But in general, we will hear the normal noise as we head into elections in 2017, no different to the crap we hear from the USA, I am going to ignore it and bliksem forth. Zuma will fall, posters, Facebook campaigns and marches or not, but the best thing we can all do is STFU about it and stop giving the oke ammunition to polarise society. All the noise is normal, comes around every 5 years.
So, it’s been an essay, sorry. I’m sure most will disagree with me, that’s fine, I’m sure they’ll remind me of this at every turn. No problem there either, as long as criticism is knowledgeable and factual, happy to listen. It’s not as if me being right or wrong is going to tip the scales either way.
@Cappie: Tough days next 18 months on the economic front. However, light in the tunnel. World economy should be in better position mid 2017, US interest rates should be close to peak cycle and so also ours, should have more electricity by then, municipal elections will be something of the past, student protests should have passed, labour strikes should be less than in 2016 – so we can start working towards improving our credit rating.
@Speartackle: You are definitely right, but seems like there is no schools rugby to talk about right now, so we chit-chat a bit, I presume. Maybe just to keep thing alive?
@BOG: Talking about schoolboyrugby then, Oom Bog do you think Grey can stop Affies this year in making it four wins out of five over the last five years?
I thought this was a schoolboy rugby site
@BOG: I don’t recall the author’s name, and the copy I read was in hardcopy, hence I am having difficulty locating it on the www.
Having read the rest of your post…well…
#NotGoingToDiscuss
#IDontHaveTheEnergy
@BOG: @Gungets Tuft: Dagsê Oom Bog en GT. Voorspoedige nuwe jaar vir julle, wat ek dink is dalk ‘n maak of breek jaar vir SA. Ons was laas in 1994 voor sulke onsekere uitdagings gewees. Ek is baie onseker oor wat die toekoms vir ons inhou. Soos in die verlede in ander lande bewys is, as jou student in oproer begin raak, is jy in vir groot uitdagings. Ek sou graag bietjie die opinies van lede van Beet se blog wil hoor oor hoe julle SA in die volgende paar jaar sien en dan oor so 15 jaar.
Ek dink die goeie skole presteer juis beter omdat ouers hulle kinders oor langer afstande sal aanry om daar skool te gaan, aangesien die naaste skole nie meer die antwoorde bied nie. Maar dit daar gelaat, wat gaan van ons word?
Maybe we should ask Beet to create a topic for discussion about how we see the future, and what we need to do to make SA a better and sustainable opportune for ourselves and our children’s sake.
Off topic but does anyone know if the KES Fest fixtures are out?
@BOG: If you’d like to stay on subject, I might summon up the energy to discuss the FeesMustFall protests.
Not going to discuss Obama vs your chosen GOP candidate. No energy for a cut&paste war. If you think the USA is in a worse place now than when Shrubby left office …
Not going to discuss fees must fall for tow-truck drivers – are you bloody mad. That’s my bread and butter daarso. Get a grip.
Not going to discuss the antideluvians and the tech they left on the other side of the moon, it’s dark daarso and I’m a bed wetter as it is, without going where the sun doesn’t shine.
Not going to discuss “emigrants who must do supplementary exams” without citation. It sounds like ou Grassy who makes grads write some sort of test before they get employed.
@Playa: That “analysis”, by who? Marshall, his Marxist mentor from Chicago? All fees, including towing truck fees, must fall. Lets create a land of milk and honey, where everything is for mahala. Support the students, but ignore or avoid the farmers ! And we are about to pay a very dear price. Mind you, we are about to become trash anyway- we may as well do it exceedingly well. And to deny that the standards of our universities have declined, is denial. Ask the emigrants who must do supplementary exams, about that.
@kosie: @Gungets Tuft: AMEN Brothers!!!
@BOG: Rated by who? Donald Trump?
I recently read an analysis piece comparing GW Bush and Obama’s presidencies, stat by stat, and section by section – if, from reading that, you conclude that Obama was worse…then we have different definitions of what is ‘bad’. I’ll try and find it and post the link.
@BOG:
Rated by whom? Surely can’t be worse than Dubya.
@Gungets Tuft: Sure, if I recall correctly, you also praised Obama, who has just been rated the worst US president in history. Everything for mahala !! Im sure you are also an admirer of Bernie Saunders then?
@GreenBlooded: As you know my daughter was at Rhodes during the FeesMustFall protest. I followed them very very closely and I was massively impressed with the students in almost all places. This was a well presented and executed protest.
We can discuss my experience when we wash one down at the Bowls Club, but the FeesMustFall protest is a reason for hope, not the other way around.
Check out @Activateonline for how good they were the whole time. Browse back a bit and see the reaction to the Zuma speech saying fees had been frozen. I don’t have the energy to put it all down here, I know one-on-one I’ll be able to make sense of it for you, just no energy on the blog.
Experience always trumps qualification, every time!
@Gungets Tuft:
“And SA universities are still very well regarded overseas, SA grad have no issues whatsoever finding work that locals don’t also have.”
Whilst I have no reason to disagree with this – one has to wonder how long this is going to last?
It seems that the students are in charge of institutions nowadays, they make demands which if not acceded to result in violent protest, intimidation of non-participating students, destruction, burning and looting of facilities and general behaviour hardly worthy of our ‘future leaders’. How soon before they start to ‘demand’ the issue of degrees regardless of non-performance with the resulting carnage when they are told “no!”? At some point, someone is going to take note. We all know that student protest is a way of life – every year without fail, the reason infinitely variable – but the amplitude and methodology have become completely out of hand.
@Gungets Tuft: Agreed on all points..
@beet: Quite a few of my daughters friends have studied at UKZN. The distractions have been covered in the press, but the good stuff doesn’t sell paper. Heard a quote the other day by Mark Twain – “Thise that don’t read newspapers are uninformed. Those that read newspapers are misinformed”.
Here’s to some more success from UKZN, it might just take some rugby success to change the headlines.
@Grasshopper: All good then. As long as you understand that the foreign degree carries little extra weight in SA corporates and none if they decide to work for themselves. I doubt we’ll be talking about this in 17 years time when you get to where I am, but having a little work experience in some respected corporates I’ll tell you that the varsity you go to has very little correlation to how successful you’re going to be. Find one that teaches flexibility and forethought, because the jobs my kids will be doing in 25 years time hasn’t been invented yet, unless they’re going to a profession like medicine, law, accounting or the like.
In short, take it or leave it, your matric marks, and whether you did IEB or NSC, count for precious little once you’ve done your degree. Once you’ve finished your degree and used it to get a job your degree counts for little as well because the academics of the degree is not what counts. What counts is everything that surrounds the distraction of academics. Learning to influence those around you, learn to solve problems, and use the degree to get a foot in the door …. success. Getting IEB or NSC in SA makes no difference for acceptance to UK universities. Do your degree here, then a Masters there, better. Nor do SA universities distinguish between IEB and NSC for acceptance. Choose a school where you child will be happy and your job is well done. My view anyway.
Jeppe academics ain’t too hot…
@Gungets Tuft: Luckily we do all have UK passports and you get a student loan which the kids have their whole life to pay back once they earn more than 20k a year and at about 1% interest…
@Gungets Tuft: For the sake of the Sharks, a few hundred more of these UKZN success stories would be good for the cause along with the Impis earning promotion to the Varsity Cup at the end of this season.
@Grasshopper: Goo dluck getting into a UK university, even with IEB, if you do not have UK passports. And then there’s the small matter of GBP9000 – R200K to you. That’s just tuition – then stay there ..
And SA universities are still very well regarded overseas, SA grad have no issues whatsoever finding work that locals don’t also have.
And if you’re writing your own internal exams finding grads then you’re doing something that Unilever, SAB, Anglo, PWC and almost every top SA employer does not find necessary. So, good luck with that – you’re taking their leftovers and considering them incompetent.
Perhaps you should take my mates daughter – she just graduated with a Maths degree from UKZN and has a fully funded invite from Oxford (not independent bursary – Oxford invite) to do a Masters there. Not bad for a Uni not considered in the top 8 in South Africa.
To me it sounds as if these kids are doing Grade 10 instead of a “Real Matric” like back in our day.
NSC is a joke exam.
@Grasshopper: What kind of graduates do you employ? I admit not all varsities are at the same standard but the same could be said for any country.
@kosie: I don’t agree our varsities are still good. I know of many companies who don’t recognise our degrees and actually have tests for graduates to write, most don’t pass them. My company is one of those, we battle to find decent graduates..
@Grasshopper: The main aim of any country’s education system is to prepare graduates for a tertiary system oF that country. In SA the NSC as well as IEB prepare their students primarily for studies in SA. 99.9% of graduates of both NSC and IEB that go on to study, go to a SA varsity. If your aim is to attend a varsity in another country, my suggestion would be to follow that countries educational system.
Is IEB better than NSC, I don’t know. From experience I can testify that there is no major difference in terms of pass rate at varsity. My son is doing his 2 nd year at varsity and the pass rate for NSC and IEB is pretty much the same. What I can say is that the adjustment for IEB graduates is far greater than NSC graduates. Generally IEB graduates come from smaller classes and the attention at school is lost at varsity.
We still have excellent varsities in SA. My son’s faculty is rated amoungst the top 1% of engineering faculties in the world. Not bad for a faculty that is only 60 years old and in SA.
@Playa:
For a minute there I thought you were taking about Herschel Gibbs. Did he even write matric? Did he pass?
8)
@Playa: Yep, I believe Bishops offer A & O Levels and Cambridge too, it’s optional though
@Grasshopper: I know a couple of Bishops boys studying at Oxford. But well, to each their own.
@Playa: NSC is worthless for UK universities, some recognise IEB..
@Grasshopper: Why?
@Playa: My daughter is on the Hershel, Bresica House, Kingsmead, St Andrews, Durban Girls College, St Stithians & St Peters waiting lists. Now that I know Hershel write NSC I might remove her from that one..
@Grasshopper: in my humble opinion Herschel’s results would not be too different from this even if they were writing IEB. They are tops. I know a girl that went there as a B student in Grade 9 at a township school.Went to Herschel in Grade 10 on a bursary and got 6 distinctions in matric, and is now cruising through med school. The teachers there know what they’re doing – and the girls are great puppets to their teachers’ tune.
@Djou: excluding our President and half of the cabinet…
Wow, just did analysis for Herschel in Cape Town, just insane! They blow every other school out of the water by miles!! Avg of 5A’s per pupil, they really should be writing IEB.
NSC Results Herschel
No Pupils who wrote 104
Bachelors Pass 103
% Bachelors Pass 99.04%
Diploma Pass 0
% Diploma Pass 0.00%
Higher Certificate 0
% Higher Certificate 0.00%
Failed or didn’t write 1
% Failed or didn’t write 0.96%
Distinctions (excluding Life Orientation & Maths Lit) 452
Average No of Distinctions per pupil (excl LO & Maths Lit) 4.35
Total Distinctions 539
Average No of Distinctions per pupil 5.18
5 Distinctions 19
6 Distinctions 16
7 Distinctions 32
8 Distinctions 7
No of Pupils with 5 or more distinctions 74
% pupils with 5 or more distinctions 71.15%
Subject Distinctions
Accounting 21
Afrikaans (1st additional Lang) 60
Afrikaans Home Language 5
Business Studies 25
Civil Technology 0
Consumer Studies 10
Design 0
Dramatic Arts 18
Engineering Graphics 0
English Home Language 81
English (1st additional Lang) 0
French (2nd additional Lang) 19
Geography 19
German (2nd additional Lang) 0
History 35
isiXhosa (1st additional Lang) 3
isiZulu (1st additional Lang) 0
Life Orientation 81
Life Sciences 55
Mathematics 46
Maths Literacy 6
Mechanical Technology 0
Music 5
Physical Science 37
Sepedi (1st Additional Lang) 0
Visual Arts 12
IT 1
Economics 0
Computer Applications 0
Total 539
@Grasshopper: Agree, very basic – but hey, only 42% of SA adults passed a very basic financial literacy test vs norm of 60%.
@Djou: I agree, but I think it could do a bit more to equip kids. One of the kids in our lift club did it, got mercilessly attacked every time they were in the car, but if you’re not going to be a Lofty, or an academic, you wonder why not do Maths Lit.
The Corporate’s drive the Universities for graduates in certain disciplines (by giving scholarships and endowing chairs in certain subjects). The Universities in turn drive the schools to encourage Maths, double Science, accounting etc, because that’s what they are being asked to deliver to business. Not going to rehash it (again) here – but video’s by Sir Ken Robinson are quite instructive. Check YouTube …
So Paul Roos jump into 2nd spot now, excellent results. 53 pupils got 5 A’s or more, that is insane! In my day that would never have happened. Almost 2 classes. SACS still way ahead…
NSC Results Paul Roos
No Pupils who wrote 246
Bachelors Pass 222
% Bachelors Pass 90.24%
Diploma Pass 16
% Diploma Pass 6.50%
Higher Certificate 6
% Higher Certificate 2.44%
Failed or didn’t write 2
% Failed or didn’t write 0.81%
Distinctions (excluding Life Orientation & Maths Lit) 455
Average No of Distinctions per pupil (excl LO & Maths Lit) 1.85
Total Distinctions 521
Average No of Distinctions per pupil 2.12
5 Distinctions 9
6 Distinctions 18
7 Distinctions 24
8 Distinctions 2
No of Pupils with 5 or more distinctions 53
% pupils with 5 or more distinctions 21.54%
Subject Distinctions
Accounting 53
Afrikaans (1st additional Lang) 19
Afrikaans Home Language 17
Business Studies 9
Civil Technology 0
Design 3
Dramatic Arts 0
Engineering Graphics 50
English Home Language 35
English (1st additional Lang) 39
French (2nd additional Lang) 2
Geography 8
German (2nd additional Lang) 6
History 13
isiXhosa (1st additional Lang) 0
isiZulu (1st additional Lang) 0
Life Orientation 59
Life Sciences 31
Mathematics 68
Maths Literacy 7
Mechanical Technology 2
Music 3
Physical Science 61
Sepedi (1st Additional Lang)
Visual Arts 3
IT 7
Economics 25
Computer Applications 1
Total 521
@Grasshopper: 40% of the pupils at Paul Roos are english speaking.
@Djou: Yes very basic stuff, but useful…
So everyone is going on about Maths Lit meaning little. I took the effort to find out what they are taught in this subject and was very surprised. It teaches personal financial skills, some stats, and a host of other stuff that people use in their daily life. So, it does empower them. And given the miserable state of consumer finances, I think these type of skills are very appropriate. Stuff such as the time value of money, calculating instalments, future value of investments, how inflation erodes wealth, how many tiles needed to tile a patio or bathroom/house and costing thereof, costing building of a house, where to complain in cases of financial abuse, etc. etc.
SACS results still stronger than a traditionally strong academic girls school in Westville Girls High;
NSC Results Westville Girls High
No Pupils who wrote 225
Bachelors Pass 215
% Bachelors Pass 95.56%
Diploma Pass 10
% Diploma Pass 4.44%
Higher Certificate 0
% Higher Certificate 0.00%
Failed or didn’t write 0
% Failed or didn’t write 0.00%
Distinctions (excluding Life Orientation & Maths Lit) 423
Average No of Distinctions per pupil (excl LO & Maths Lit) 1.88
Total Distinctions 540
Average No of Distinctions per pupil 2.40
5 Distinctions 11
6 Distinctions 10
7 Distinctions 17
8 Distinctions 2
No of Pupils with 5 or more distinctions 40
% pupils with 5 or more distinctions 17.78%
Subject Distinctions
Accounting 33
Afrikaans (1st additional Lang) 41
Afrikaans Home Language 0
Business Studies 8
Civil Technology 0
Dramatic Arts 34
Engineering Graphics 0
English Home Language 62
English (1st additional Lang) 0
French (2nd additional Lang) 0
Geography 23
German (2nd additional Lang) 0
History 45
isiXhosa (1st additional Lang) 0
isiZulu (1st additional Lang) 34
Life Orientation 94
Life Sciences 34
Mathematics 26
Maths Literacy 23
Music 0
Physical Science 34
Sepedi (1st Additional Lang) 0
Visual Arts 46
IT 2
Economics 1
Computer Applications 0
Total 540
@Die Ken: Thanks, I’ll do my analysis of PRG too, like the above so it’s comparable.
@Maroon: @Grasshopper: A summary of PRG’s results (extract from PRG press release):
MATRIEKS 2015
244 van 245 kandidate slaag
MV vir Graadstudie: 90,6%
59 x A-gemiddeldes
65 x B-gemiddeldes
44 kandidate behaal 6 of meer A’s
Totale vak-A’s: 544 waarvan 68 in Wiskunde en 61 in Fisiese Wetenskap
Appreciate your effort,thanks grassy.
@Couchmavin: yes I am aware of that. Bog always says how great Grey’s academics are so included it.
Grey College is a dual medium school e.a afrikaans and english.
It’s going to be quite difficult for any of those 3 to top SACS, a quarter of their pupils got 5A’s or more!
I’ll do AFFIES, Paul Roos & Boishaai later today. Not a short task as you have to check each result so about 500 plus…
@Maroon: I know that, it’s English speaking Gov Schools, Bishops is private and really should be writing IEB
@Grasshopper: certainly not a top 10 list. Bishops and Paul Roos would comfortably make top 5, if not top 3.
Here are the Top10 based upon the Avg No of Distinctions excl Maths Lit and Life Orientation;
1) SACS – 2.3
2) Rondebosch – 1.85
3) Westville – 1.49
4) PBHS – 1.26
5) College – 1.16
6) Glenwood – 0.97
7) Grey PE – 0.92
8 ) Northwood – 0.88
9) KES – 0.80
10) Grey Bloem – 0.72
@Tang: Tang, I did the analysis checking every entry so it’s based on EWN. I have sent Beet an updated version including 4 additional schools and a ranking. Remarks will make a difference but to get an overall feel for a schools academic prowess it doesn’t have to be 100% correct.
@beet – Boys High have published the fact they have a 100% pass rate.
They are also showing 460 distinctions as opposed to the 448 in your results.
9 Distinctions = 1
8 Distinctions = 3
7 Distinctions = 14
6 Distinctions = 8
5 Distinctions = 9
Boys with five or more 35 as opposed to your 33.
Expect these numbers to jump up significantly after remarks.
GDE are wrong with their numbers – Boys are right
@Bwana: Apologies, you are right, 12 distinctions for Geography left off the list but still included in the overall figure. I’ll update and send to Beet later with results for SACS, Rondebosch and a girls school to compare the sexes…
@Bwana: Yes, it’s a joke buddy….people need to learn to laugh at themselves. Like I am so white I reflect the sun!
@Grasshopper: That is a stereotype if I have ever seen one. College’s Geography distinctions are missing
@star: every kid from *** is instructed to do Accounting & get an A or there will be consequences, poor buggers!
@Djou: Well done Djou, Garsies is certainly doing something right and should be commended for what they are doing. An up and coming school :-)
@Grasshopper: Thanks for the info Grassy.
Just some “useless” info for a time you don’t have anything else to do. Of the 350 learners who wrote matric in Garsies, 100% passed. The average of the matric class of 2015 was just below 70% (69. something % – don’t know the decimal). Of the learners who had subjects for graduation studies (somewhere around 280), everyone one qualified. And lastly, the average of each subject was above 60% (bear in mind that they also teach a number of technical subjects not recognised for graduation studies). Not too bad for such a massive group, I would say! And Garsies was the top academic school in 2013 and 2014 in Gauteng and finished 2nd in 2015! So, they were Beeld trophy champs, runners up in the cricket and also performed academically. Surely they are doing something right.
And may I add they beat SACS, Paarl Boys High and Paul Roos last week in the Cape Cricket Week, while the match against Paarl Gym was drawn (Garsies needed 1 wicket and Paarl Gym 10 runs when time was up)!
@kosie: There are 3 accounting classes so roughly 80 boys. That means that 60% of the boys got distinctions. It really is an exceptional program. It also has not escaped my eye that Westville had more Mathematic distinctions(61) than NW,GW and College combined (52)
@Grasshopper: You clearly have more time than I do to collate the figures. Thanks for the time and effort.
I wonder what the distinction rate per school per subject is? How many Westville boys took Accounting etc
I need to do SACS & Rondebosch too, that will give us further clarity. KES ain’t looking to hot across the board Rog
@Grasshopper: These stats make for very interesting reading!
Life Orientation is a compulsory subject across the board. Along with English, an Additional Language (Afrikaans/Xhosa/Zulu/Sotho etc.) and Mathematics/Maths Literacy. It’s just not a pre-requisite for any tertiary course and the ‘smart’ kids don’t bother sweating about getting high marks for it.
Extrapolating Northwood’s 176 matriculants yields a school total of nearly 900 boys. When one adds the effort that that they put into rugby (coaching set-up, scholarships, foreign players, etc), it’s surprising that they are not a mid-table tier one school?
Thanks Beet, it shows Westville just pips PBHS when Life Orientation and Maths Lit are removed. Good to see 11 distinctions in both Music and French at PBHS, showing they offer a broad range of subjects. Seems PBHS also don’t push the easy options like Life Orientation. Even more interesting is the 55 distinctions in Afrikaans 1st additional Lang, maybe PBHS needs to leave the Grogper Cup too :wink:. An assumption on this is either Afrikaans families are choosing to send their boys to an English School or PBHS Afrikaans department is really strong….only 18 A’s for English 1st Language…