| EAST (10h00) | WEST | ||
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | S. HLOPE (Glenwood) | 1 | L. SOSIBO (Greytown) |
| 1 | S. BUTHELEZI (Richards Bay) | 1 | L. MTHETHWA (Empangeni) |
| 2 | N. MTHEMBU (Northwood) | 2 | P. KEEVE (Vryheid) |
| 2 | J. DIEDERICKS (DHS) | 2 | L. MULLER (Grace) |
| 3 | W. GILBERT (Westville) | 3 | W. STEENKAMP (Pionier) |
| 4 | S. WESTMAN (Glenwood) | 4 | H. VAN EDEN (Sarel Cilliers) |
| 5 | R. DAFEL (DHS) | 4 | K. JOHNSON (Sarel Cilliers) |
| 6 | M. HAMILTON (DHS) | 5 | M. CHAMANE (Greytown) |
| 6 | A. NENE (Pinetown) | 5 | B. MALINGA ? |
| 7 | D. ATEMBE (Maritzburg College) | 6 | A. KHANYILE (Wartburg) |
| 7 | K. KRUGER (Port Natal) | 6 | M. FUHRI (Pionier) |
| 8 | J. MILLER (Kearsney) | 7 | M. GROENEWALD (Ferrum) |
| 9 | S. DUBAZANA (Glenwood) | 7 | B. ZITHUMANE (Port Shepstone) |
| 9 | T. KRASAUKAS (Voortrekker) | 8 | E. POTGIETER (Pionier) |
| 10 | D. GUTU (Michaelhouse) | 8 | A. MDUDI (Port Shepstone) |
| 11 | S. MHLAMVU (Westville) | 9 | C. SEVERS (Ashton) |
| 12 | K. BOTTRIELL (Hilton) | 9 | F. KOTZE (Weston) |
| 12 | A. DUMA (Maritzburg College) | 10 | T. DU PLOOY (Sarel Cilliers) |
| 13 | L. THOMLINSON (Michaelhouse) | 10 | M. NGCOBO (Sarel Cilliers) |
| 14 | S. BUTHELEZI (Westville) | 11 | L. SITHOLE (Ferrum) |
| 15 | N. KLEWINGHAUS (Hillcrest) | 11 | N. NZUZA (Weston) |
| 12 | T. JOUBERT (Suid-Natal) | ||
| 12 | D. PRICE (Weston) | ||
| 13 | N. VILJOEN (Pionier) | ||
| 13 | SPEARPOINT (Treverton) | ||
| 14 | M. NGUBANE (Ladysmith) | ||
| 14 | M. MKHIZE (Eshowe) | ||
| 15 | M. NGUBANE (Felixton) | ||
| 15 | L. NDOU (Wartburg) | ||
| NORTH DURBAN (11h00) | SOUTH | ||
| 1 | H. MPANZA (DHS) | 1 | A. SONGCA (Michaelhouse) |
| 2 | Q. JORDAAN (George Campbell) | 2 | S. SWANEPOEL (Maritzburg College) |
| 3 | T. DE JAGER (DHS) | 2 | J DU PLESSIS (Suid-Natal) |
| 4 | L. WHITFIELD (DHS) | 3 | L. CELE (Glenwood) |
| 5 | A. EVANS (Clifton) | 4 | K. BLOSE (Glenwood) |
| 6 | L. NDABANDABA (DHS) | 5 | J.L. BRYNARD (Glenwood) |
| 7 | R. VOSLOO (Clifton) | 6 | M. VIDIMA (Glenwood) |
| 8 | M. NTULI (DHS) | 7 | D. MULLER (Westville) |
| 9 | K. GOEDEKE (Clifton) | 7 | L. MHLANGU (Hillcrest) |
| 10 | A. ALASAUSKIS (George Campbell) | 8 | C. ERSKINE (Clifton) |
| 11 | D. PALMER (George Campbell) | 9 | G. SIMPSON (DHS) |
| 12 | G. COETZEE (DHS) | 9 | C. HUNT (Glenwood) |
| 13 | J. BOYD (Ashton) | 10 | J.C. VAN KAMPEN (Northwood) |
| 14 | T. KOCK (Crawford LL) | 11 | S. DUBAZANA (St Charles) |
| 15 | D. BRYAN (DHS) | 12 | B. BOULLE (Westville) |
| 12 | A. KHANYILE (Wartburg) | ||
| 13 | L. SHOZI (Comtech) | ||
| 14 | M. MAINGUARD (Michaelhouse) | ||
| 14 | K. MAQAM (SCS) | ||
| 15 | C. STEELE (Glenwood) | ||
| PIETERMARITZBURG (12h00) | NORTHERN REGION | ||
| 1 | Z. HARMSE (Voortrekker) | 1 | W. BOTHA (Ferrum) |
| 2 | S. MKHIZE (St Charles) | 2 | F. BOTHA (Pionier) |
| 3 | D. DU BUISSON (St Charles) | 3 | F. HENDRICKS (Ferrum) |
| 4 | B. OLIVIER (Maritzburg College) | 4 | C. JACOBS (Pionier) |
| 5 | D. IMMELMAN (Maritzburg College) | 5 | F. VAN GREUNENE (Empangeni) |
| 6 | K. THUNDER (Maritzburg College) | 6 | N. MLOTHSHWA (Sarel Cilliers) |
| 7 | B. MUIL (Maritzburg College) | 7 | S. THEMBE (Eshowe) |
| 8 | W. SQUIRES (St Charles) | 8 | C. SWANEPOEL (Pionier) |
| 9 | C. RATTRAY (Maritzburg College) | 9 | R. VAN DER WESTHUIZEN (Pionier) |
| 10 | R. VAN BLERK (Maritzburg College) | 10 | R. POTGIETER (Pionier) |
| 11 | H. TAMAHANE (Maritzburg College) | 11 | B. ZULU (Sarel Cilliers) |
| 12 | C. FRACKERS (Maritzburg College) | 12 | X. KRIEL (Sarel Cilliers) |
| 13 | S. SIBISI (St Charles) | 13 | R. FOURIE (Ferrum) |
| 14 | X. GUMA (Maritzburg College) | 14 | J. WARDEN (Pionier) |
| 15 | D. GRIFFITHS (Maritzburg College) | 15 | R.LE ROUX (Pionier) |
| HIGHWAYS (14h00) | NORTH | ||
| 1 | J. ELS (Westville) | 1 | A.J. PRETORIUS (Glenwood) |
| 2 | H. PRINSLOO (Westville) | 2 | D. LEE (Westville) |
| 3 | S. STOLTZ (Westville) | 3 | B. VAN ROOYEN (Glenwood) |
| 4 | L. HEFER (Gelofte) | 4 | S. QOMA (Westville) |
| 5 | J. MEYER (Kearsney) | 5 | J.L. BARNARD (Glenwood) |
| 6 | K. NICHOLSON (Westville) | 6 | C. GLOVER (Maritzburg College) |
| 7 | T. DIXON (Kearsney) | 7 | E. SPARKS (Northwood) |
| 8 | T. GUMEDE (KLOOF) | 8 | Z. HEYNEKE (Westville) |
| 9 | B. VORSTER (Kearsney) | 9 | M. DAHL (Hilton) |
| 10 | C. RITCHIE (Kearsney) | 10 | N. VAN ROOYEN (Westville) |
| 11 | U. PERUCATTI (Hillcrest) | 11 | T. MAHLANGU (Westville) |
| 12 | J. TEDDER (Kearsney) | 12 | M. HOLTZHAUSEN (Glenwood) |
| 13 | J. WHEELER (Westville) | 13 | K. MUNANGI (Maritzburg College) |
| 14 | S. PAU (Kearsney) | 14 | F. GOBLE (Michaelhouse) |
| 15 | M. NESBIT (Kearsney) | 15 | D. BROUGH (Glenwood) |
| SOUTH DURBAN (15h00) | MIDLANDS | ||
| 1 | C.KLOPPER (Glenwood) | 1 | A. PEVERELLE (Hilton) |
| 2 | Q. VORSTER (Glenwood) | 2 | M. WISEMAN (Michaelhouse) |
| 3 | K. MCHUNU (Glenwood) | 3 | L. MAZIBUKO (Michaelhouse) |
| 4 | R. VAN HEERDEN (Glenwood) | 4 | J. KLEYNHANS (Michaelhouse) |
| 5 | M. BAUER (Glenwood) | 5 | J. SESINK-CLEE (Michaelhouse) |
| 6 | A. BRUMMER (Glenwood) | 6 | M. NENE (Greytown) |
| 7 | K. XABA (Glenwood) | 7 | M. SADIKI (Michaelhouse) |
| 8 | M. PALVIE (Glenwood) | 8 | S. DE MARIGNY (Hilton) |
| 9 | J. DU PREEZ (Glenwood) | 9 | B. DEAN (Michaelhouse) |
| 10 | J. BOSSR (Glenwood) | 10 | B. PRETORIUS (Michaelhouse) |
| 11 | I. MUKENDI (Glenwood) | 11 | D. MCGHEE (Hilton) |
| 12 | S. MADUNA (Glenwood) | 12 | D. LOFTUS (Hilton) |
| 13 | D. DU RANDT (Glenwood) | 13 | L. FURNESS (Michaelhouse) |
| 14 | G. LUBBE (Glenwood) | 14 | C. BADENHORST (Hilton) |
| 15 | J. MORGAN (Glenwood) | 15 | V. FOSTER (Michaelhouse) |
| REPRESENTATIVES | |||
| Glenwood | 29 | ||
| Westville | 15 | ||
| Maritzburg College | 15 | ||
| Michaelhouse | 14 | ||
| DHS | 11 | ||
| Kearsney | 8 | ||
| Hilton | 7 | ||
| St Charles | 4 | ||
| Northwood | 3 |
How did Furniss do at trials?
@Pedantic: Thanks, that’s a great tight 5.
@Buffel: But what about the annual Glenwood bias, you maybe wrong there…
@Pedantic: I would love to see Bossr at fullback, that would be interesting….
@valke: Yeah, I heard that too. He is a centre turned into a lock and I don’t think it worked. From what I saw he lacked the forward grunt and instinct to hit rucks etc. Very good in the line-out, but at 1,99 he should be. He battled to even stay in the 2nd team so probably decided to go home…
@Buffel: You’re forgetting the elephant in the room. On equal footing the fullback would be a shoe in, but there is no equal footing in SA.
when are the final teams being released for Tuesday . Going to be very interesting the make up of the teams. I think the privates could hold sway when the bell finally tolls .
Westville/Hilton/MHS front rows to make up the CW and Academy sides. MHS/KC/GWD/Westville/Hilton the balance of the packs.
Hilton/KC scrumhalves, MHS/GWD flyhalves, KC/MHS centres , wings College/Glenwood and MHS full back.
@star: Mr T from NW was apparently playing loosehead yesterday also – I didn’t see it so can’t confirm.
If it comes down to plain ol’ scrummaging, Stoltz at tighthead has no peers in KZN – at the night series he was killing the GW scrum while he was on. I saw the same at trials yesterday, when he left at half time, the Highway scrum was under pressure. I’ve heard it said that some coaches start their selection at tighthead – Rudi, there’s your man!
I think with Els, Klopper and Peverelle we are very well covered at loose head. In fact looking at the front row talent KZN could put out 3 very competitive front rows. Final selection might come down to flexibility.
@Grasshopper: I see your lock from Stoffberg has returned to Stoffberg. Heard he played this weekend.
Any reason why he left Glenwood ?
@McCulleys Workshop: Klopper & Vorster ain’t little soft kids either….they would hold their own…so 3 vs 5, still a chance…
@Pedantic: Ah the ‘certainties’ list….
@Grasshopper: 1 vs 5, even William Wallace would concede
@McCulleys Workshop: Wait, I thought Hilton were worried about injuries to their players against the more ‘professional’ Glenwood players, now their kids are shoving the Glenwood kids around. I think the Glenwood vs Hilton game should be re-instated in 2016
@Grasshopper: Sorry, forgot to mention, Mchunu was on the “lame and lazy” list. I agree, he is a beast and will be a very likely CW candidate.
@McCulleys Workshop: I still find it hard that they would shunt Mchunu around, he is a beast!
@Pedantic: Peverelle is the loose head and has had a great season. He is U 18 this year but is back at Hilton next year when they should have a useful front row.
@McCulleys Workshop: I watched them against Kearsney 2 weeks ago and had the same opinion as you do. At trials however, the two I mentioned looked very good and got chances in multiple chukkas.
@Anti Green:
1 A. PEVERELLE (Hilton)
2 M. WISEMAN (Michaelhouse)
3 L. MAZIBUKO (Michaelhouse)
4 J. KLEYNHANS (Michaelhouse)
5 J. SESINK-CLEE (Michaelhouse)
@GreenBlooded: Not the player you’re thinking of, I think he had a bit of an injury setback this year but as you say should have a storming 2016 season with natural development.
@Anti Green:
Hmmm. If that loosehead is the same oke I’m thinking of – he still has another year to go there. Played tight-head for me in my club team for 2 years a few years back. Sent some time on exchange at a school in Scotland last year…..
@star: Sorry Star I got you into poo, thanks anyway for the info. @ Pedantic I rate that Tight 5 from Hilton, especially that loose head prop. He’s so strong and gets around the park. The Midlands tight five, which schools were they from. I don’t know the names.
@Pedantic: @Rugger fan: I am surprised the selectors didn’t mix the teams around – it doesn’t create a true reflection of potential. @Grasshopper: Peverelle is a great scrummager and Wiseman great at 2. @Pedantic: I watched DHS on saterday and was generally impressed with their forwards, but not their backs, other than I thought their 9 had a reasonable game and a decent pass.
@star: 2nd match up never counts, not in the rankins for KZN Top School anyway. It’s done, it was at Westville.
@Pedantic: I can believe the locks were not great, very average indeed. Glenwood have lacked decent locks since Ferdie Horn….hopefully van der Mescht will be the next one…
@star: I can’t wait. Words of single syllables please, if there was an English Lit I would have taken that too ..
@Rugger fan: I didn’t get to see any Under 16 – trial games all overlapped.
@star: Stoltz played 1 half and was immense in the scrums. Qoma didn’t play coz his pinkie was sore
Fringe players that looked good for me .. the DHS 10 and 15 (Coetzee, Bryan), Boulle at 12 and Ntuli at 8.
@Gungets Tuft: I have just realised that we play College on their Reunion day. I have done our boys no favours
@ Grassy- Would it not have been their Ist game? We can look at ” nuance” after we get the figures.
@Grasshopper: Considering you were 500 KM away from the action, maybe you should just consider it a possibility
It wasn’t just the front row, the South Durban locks were very light – we also not only talking scrums but tight loose also. Maybe someone else was there to verify.
@Gungets Tuft: Same with Glenwood, played Kearsney away in the 1st game of the season…..
@Grasshopper: The Hilton loosehead is very strong and then the Midlands locks would have been ” superior”.
Did Qoma or Stoltz take the field? Which fringe players impressed?
@ Pedantic- you are being very vague.
@ Gungets- the cricket was played away not on Reunion day. I will do a ” Lofty” factor.
@star: That’s the problem though, isn’t it. Westville played Kearsney at home on their Reunion day. College play away at Kearsney. Very different scenario, yes.
@Pedantic: Thanks Pedantic.
Hope Guma is fine.
Pity the selectors did not influence play more by swapping packs/backlines when there was a mismatch – or moving players around to display the talent available.
Did you see any U16 games? I only had feedback on a few 8’s (Barnes, Richardson, Little) that played well.
@Pedantic: I find it very hard to believe that Klopper, Vorster and Mchunu were being ‘dominated’ up front……very, very hard…
Waterpolo
College lost all mathces
Swimming – College did not match either (Aquatics really on the down at college – and no debate there!)
Basketball:
Played 14
College won 7
WV won 7
Cricket:
Played 23
College won 12
WV won 11
How is that response? Talk about insecurities.
Anti green asked a question ” would be interesting to see some stats on overall sports results from schools” I have responded in the interests of the ” reality” that Lammonds so wisely talks about which ” is not necessarily a bad thing” for school sport. Honestly I am tired of the many skewed perceptions there are out there and looking forward to retiring to my donkey farm.
@ GB- only 3 inches
@ Old school- the emphasis was on overall results and K is a constant for all 3 schools.
@ Rugger fan- as always a measured response( no donkey’s involved) . Do you have the overall basketball , water polo and cricket results from earlier this year when Westville was at College?
Where is the topic monitor when we need him ?
With regard to the main trials yesterday, it was very much like the KZN season has been – kind of topsy turvy with no real answers.
I hope the selectors got something out of the trials because after watching 5 of the 6 games there were still many question marks for me.
What made it difficult was that most of the games were very one-sided. The Northern Region vs Pietermaritzburg a game in point – the Northern guys totally dominated the Maritzburg team upfront and as a result we really saw nothing from the Martizburg players. Edit … X.Guma showed a lot of class before succumbing to what looked like a hamstring injury.
The Midlands vs South Durban (AKA Glenwood) was another where the Midlands pack were very dominant which meant we saw nothing from the South backline – a team that has many of the CW / AW incumbents in it.
To make matters worse, the number of “injured” players must have been a record for a main trial – it would seem some of the guys have worked out that an injury is the easiest path to the final trials. As a result many high profile players didn’t even take the field.
On the positive side, I noticed several “fringe” players put their hands up – especially Under 17’s – hopefully they were noticed and will get a shot at final trials next week as they are far more deserving than the guys who sat on the sidelines with little niggles.
@oldschool: 2 Draws in 2012. Some damn narrow losses – 2011 lost 30-31, 40-44 in 2013, Lost 20-21 in 2014. That’s why when we win a last minute match like Saturday we are happy to take it – because we’ve lost them like that plenty.
It also puts the lie to the kind of {koff} measuring that Star is wont to do, because there’s always a nuance. It’s not unlike throwing your darts at a spot on the wall then putting the dart board in place to make sure you get the biggest score.
And I am barely maths lit capable, so karrent count high enough to make it count. Ou Star is a Lofty – that’s his game.
@star: Why don’t we just look directly at Westville vs College – at Westville?
Hockey
Played 14 (no U15 age groups)
College won 6
Drew 2
WV won 6
Rugby
Played 24
College won 11
Drew 1
WV won 12
So a very closely matched set of results across the board. College dominating the A teams- but most games close.
One of the best days so far from a competitive day for all teams – and impressive to have 24 rugger teams on the day too.
@star:
On behalf of the GW bloggers – I’ll simply concede and stipulate that yours is bigger by 3 inches. Happy?
@star: I don’t think KC should be used as the bench mark against the large state schools …. yes we compete at A team level but down the line we get crushed every year ….
against the Ville , we normally win a hand full of games at home , and very little away from home ….
Last year we won the 1sts and all the A team games at home … probably the best results in 20 years ….
College and Ville should use Glenwood as the bench mark ….
However , over the last 5 years we have a better win ratio at 1st team level against the 3 big schools than any other local school.
2011… Kc beat College , lost to GW and Ville
2012…Kc beat all 3
2013 …Kc beat college and GW , DNP ville due to weather
2014…kc beat ville , lost to GW and College
2015…Kc beat GW , lost to ville and college is coming ?
played 14 won 8 …with one to go on Saturday …
I don’t think that college or Ville have beaten GW in that entire period ? may be wrong though ?
but down the line we only ever win a handful of games ….
@star: I will send you the link to the results once we have played (Kearsney away, Hilton away), you can do the numbers. It’s way more important to you than it is to me. For many reasons I don’t suffer from those sorts of insecurities.
Be sure to print it on fluffy and soft 2-ply before sending me the copy … buy a donkey.
8)
@Anti Green: I think you would be surprized at the overall sports results from schools answer.
Here is a challenge to College( from an overall perspective) Westville played 40 rugby games against Hilton and Kearsney( who College are still to play) and lost one game. I will be watching very carefully to see how much better College will be.
I think Kearsney is a very good benchmark school which completes well across the line( even challenging in a few swimming races)
Westville’s results( against K) in the 3 major sports as follows
Played Won Lost Draw
Cricket 13 10 3 0
Rugby 19 19 0 0
Hockey 11 7 2 2
Total 43 36 5 2
Across the all the teams in these codes the win % is 84 . Maybe we can get GW and College’s comparisons.
@McCulleys Workshop: Sadly for every 1 softie at College there are 10 in the midlands!!
@Anti Green: Heard of some oke that tried to swallow one without water, got stuck in his throat. Had a stiff neck for a week.
@Anti Green:
@McCulleys Workshop: Haha your whole body goes stiff
@Anti Green: They say it has an amazing effect if you crush it and smoke it
@McCulleys Workshop: I think Speartackle uses the Blue Tablet now.
@McCulleys Workshop: You didn’t need artificial substances to do that job??
Bluestone …. Eeisch, showing your age
@Speartackle: @Gungets Tuft: @Anti Green: I know Blue Stone from the army, you guys use that at College? That makes you soft. @Thumper: Big Boy – they didn’t need to do that to us at Balgowan Tech – but hey it’s a free world.
@Gungets Tuft:My point is, I don’t believe your schools rugby has demised. If it takes schools to import a complete team to beat College then that should be an understanding of how good your school is.
@Anti Green: No worries. Just a few spots where I’m sensitive, Goldstones is one.
Known a few softies at College myself, nothing wrong with a little variety, and we can’t all be forwards, we need someone to drop the ball so we can reset.
@Gungets Tuft: Accept my apology about Greenstones.
@Anti Green: Inteesting that you say Glenwood came College at A and B level. Against them this year the 2nds won 13-8, U16B lost 0-3 and the C,D, E won. U15 was a loss down the line except for the E’s. U14A, against the top rated side in SA lost 7-38 but the other teams won handsomely. Things are seldom as they seem. Remember this U15A team took something like 95 last year, so a 10-62 is bad but an improvement. As I said, the demise of College rugby is greatly exaggerated.
A suggestion, leave the Greenstones comments, it’s just disrespectful and should be beneath you. If you like I can reinforce that by giving you the history of the name, going back 106 years.
@Rugger fan: I am also very keen to find out.
@Lammonds: I have to agree here, College never lie down and die. They may get caned by Glenwood at the A and B level. From C downwards it’s a different story. All round sport at College must be the best in the Province if not the country. Would be interesting to see some stats on overall sports results from schools, even if it’s rolling cheese downhill.
@Thumper: Eish that’s a bit harsh. Know a few softies from College (Greenstones)
Any news from Woodburn today?
@beet: Can’t agree more with you! Spot on
@Grasshopper: 8 cricket teams … .just saying.
Sure, things have changed at College but certainly not for the worse, its definately a more rounded place now than it ever has been. In terms of rugby results, yes, not as dominant as years gone by and the reality is that it probably wont reach those levels again, but thats not neccesarily a bad thing for kzn rugby.
Grassy, not sure what you mean by syaing its going to be hard for College to compete against Glenwood?Apart from this years result,and 1 or 2 others, most matches have been very close at 1st xv level. College will always compete with anyone they come up against, certainly in kzn at the very least…
@Gungets Tuft: My mole said it was just a small intake…..not sure if he is covering something up. Let’s see what happens vs Westville….
@Gungets Tuft: All means of transport….even ‘beamed up’ by Scotty…
@Grasshopper: Are they coming in by ship???
It may be facetious to ask (again), but the question STILL remains, why just 4 U14 teams if this net is being spread so wide. I am calling BS on the smaller intake in Grade 8, simply because Glenwood could still put together cricket teams down to U14H (8 teams) when you played Westville in January.
@Rugger fan: Yep, those are parents who do not believe in the Kershaw policy, there will always be some. Those boys places will be taken by boys from Pretoria, PE, Cape Town etc in the Glenwood BE…
@Grasshopper: They (College) had the 2016 intake sleep over this weekend – and a few GW Prep boys were there in their stripey PE kit for the night. Looked odd seeing GW colours walking around the College BE
@Thumper: Maybe, however their Under15A rugga side did beat Paarl Boys and Paul Roos recently, so they ain’t too mediocre. It’s far better than in the 90’s when our 1st team even lost to Voortrekker and Afrikaans Hoers Skool Durban Noord! Beating a majority under19 Noord Kaap recently is a big achievement. I think Glenwood’s scalps of Paul Roos, Monnas, Affies, Grey Bloem, Paarl Boys etc in the past 5 years cannot be matched by any other KZN school….
@Rugger fan: Yep, and the two Midlands schools being grossly overpriced. College have that attraction at R35k a year. Are the Midlands schools really 7 times better, no…..so parents wanting to have extra cash for life insurance, medical aid, holidays, sports tours etc will most likely send their boys to College. College is certainly on my list for the future. I know quite a few Glenwood Old Boys sending their boys to College……
@Grasshopper: Glenwood do well in spreading their net far and wide. People bitch and moan, but the truth of the matter GW do it better than most. Trust me rugby isn’t the end result as to why our kids are at school. Got to give it to GW they are great in KZN, but outside of that, they are mediocre.
@Rugger fan: to use digital media, the future. I learnt the basics by reading Tolkien etc but now I’m working in digital media and have no use for newspapers as I get my news via Twitter…
@Grasshopper: Agree Grassie – that strong Boarder base may not provide the cream – but the depth through the 5 age group teams is generally fed by that boarder base – along with the day boys from good feeders like Merchiston, Pelham, Scottsville, Clarendon etc. providing more depth.
I’m sure being the top govt school in a city like PMB helps a lot – compared to Durbs where there is a bigger number of govt schools to choose from.
@Rugger fan: They needed an extra cannon fodder side to hold the tackle bags etc and play against the Midlands side, so they sent an invite to the Glenwood 1st side. The merit Glenwood invites are the other 14 players from their 2nds.
@Thumper: What is concerning for College is the hidings Glenwood have given them at Under14 level for the past 2 years. I know the whole College boarders take a while to adjust waadaa waadaa, but even with awesome training and the boys balancing out physically over the years I think it’s going to be hard for them to compete. What College still have is the depth due to large boarder numbers which is College’s saving grace. They might not be getting the cream but they getting the milk so to speak…
@Grasshopper: Grassie – they still teach some schools in KZN to read
– what did they teach you down in Umbilo 
@Rugger fan: Do people still read papers?
@Tarpeys: Spent Force, my son is in Grade 12 and has played A team through the age groups, played 4 won 4 against the softies from the Midlands!!
Good luck to all boys in the trials today – play your best – and sorry for those guys who are missing due to illness or injury.
BTW: I see the back page of the ?Mercury today are also having a go at the “numbers” that do not add up with 29 GW players at trials.
@McCulleys Workshop: Cool – staffing on the farms, not staffing at the school. All good.
Bursaries – ja well, discussed to death. College has bursaries, they are published in the year book each year, plus there might be some that are off book where a kid gets private scholarships – generally those provided by employers to staff. But I agree, we do not have the tin to compose teams that are 99% out of the province, kids that don’t arrive without some of their bills being paid. Such is life, but there are many more ways to skin that cat and to quote Mark Twain, rumours of the demise of College have been greatly exaggerated. Winds of change and all that.
@McCulleys Workshop: I think it’s a reality for all schools based in CBD’s, they were once affluent areas but now the wealthy have fled to secure estates far and wide. The likes of Glenwood, College, DHS, KES, Jeppe etc cannot change the surrounding areas so are fighting a huge battle, hence the offering of BE bursaries to bring in the quality. Leafy suburb schools are a little more protected for now, but the ‘creep’ is happening. These schools are having to create ‘oasis’s’ within their walls…..crazy but true. Glenwood were just ahead of the game a little…..College have caught on more recently. These schools have survived two world wars and other issues so I’m sure they will all keep on going through thick and thin….
@Gungets Tuft: Staffing Demographics – When a farm is purchased by a corporate, a happy MC supporting family is now replaced …. Should I continue?
Financially Beneficial, wow GT, Westville and Glenwood now offer 94.7 sports bursaries each, per year … And 93% of those are for rugby.
@McCulleys Workshop: “staffing demographics have changed” , “some financially very beneficial”
More explanation please?
@Gungets Tuft: @Lammonds: I think the reality is that things have changed for MC, not necessarily due to any doing of their own. GT as you have mentioned previously, the City has changed, farms in the out lying areas have been bought by corporates and staffing demographics have changed, Competion as an incredible school is way way more intense, especially on the sports front and in particular in Rugby. So where MC was a no brainer for a top sports kid, there are now more options – some financially very beneficial. Simple.
Okay, may “spent force” is a little harsh but I do think that College are a much easier opposition than they used to be and teams fancy themselves to turn them over even on Goldstones. Ultimately, the Piermaritzburg region will not provide many CW players. Even though College is still stable the schools around them are struggling to produce decent teams and provincial quality players.
Tarpeys,your comments are way off the mark,College is and always has been the dominant force in kzn schoolboy rugby…if any other school can match us down the line and turn us over,has been done once or twice in the last 8 years and certainly not by House,maybe if that happens regularly then we can talk about a spent force…as for losing its aura,that will never happen,part of the reason why it’s a 152 years old and will be there for the next 150…
@Tarpeys: “Spent force” these days. How far are you going back. History has College the latest winner in the House derby, 3 of last 5 years and 6 out of the last 10 years. Not many people would claim that a losing average points to the opposition being a spent force. Perhaps I’m looking at it all wrong, you can educate me.
Only one KZN opponent has a better average in the last 10 years – Glenwood. Kearsney is 5/5, Westville 4/3 with 3 draws and Hilton 9/1.
In the last 5 Glenwood are 10, 1, 2, 13 (Played, won, drawn, lost.)
Hilton 5, 4, 10, 1
Westville 5, 2, 2, 1
KC 5, 2, 0, 3
And in that time (since 2005) we’ve beaten Grey College, Affies twice, Bishops, Framesby, Paul Roos. I’ll live with that.
@Rugger fan: I remember the 95 & 96 drubbings by College like they were yesterday….eish! College beat Westville, a good skin to have…
@Tarpeys: I agree that history counts for little on current form. But a few local schools have slipped on the College banana skin this year already. So I wouldn’t say “College are a spent force” – the DHS/GW teams of the 80’s got regular drubbings from College – but kept on – and see where they are now. All schools go through ups and downs – even MHS has had many lean years. And this season is certainly not looking like a spent force year for College. They have pulled off a good few wins against better fancied teams. And had one or two narrow losses. Really only GW that blew them away on the day.
@Thumper: I’m talking about the current situation. College are a spent force – average a best these days. They have lost their aura. Voories – please – and St Charles are mediocre at best. Let’s see how many CW and AW players emerge from this region. At this stage, history mean nothing. Good luck against Kearsney.
@Gungets Tuft: hahah! I’ll be 71 by then….unlikely to have a run like that!
@Grasshopper: Keep up your current form and it’s 35 years, if we get back to 2 matches a year. I have hopes – the oldest College Old Boy at this years Reunion finished in 1935 – and he drives himself down from Johannesburg ….
@Gungets Tuft: Let’s just say it’s close enough, Glenwood are still 70 odd wins to get parity which won’t happen whilst either us or our kids are alive…
@Grasshopper: Ja, I’m not sure. My records show 165 played, Won 108, lost 40, drawn 17. I think we’ve tried to reconcile before and failed. I don’t think it’s that significant actually … but if you have yours in a spreadsheet send ’em on down and I will try to match it up. I cannae do PDF or Word or suffink, I tilt like a badly loaded tow truck ..
Stukkend busy at the moment .. I have a moment between 2am and 5am on the 7th of November, please send your meeting request to the King of Denmark, c/o Gungetstuft@gmail.com …
@Speartackle: Ongelukkig is hulle verplig om dundee te nooi want Andre Snyman was daar op skool.
@Gungets Tuft: This is my set of results for Glenwood vs College;
Since: 1921
Played: 164
Won: 43
Lost: 106
Drawn: 15
Biggest win: 57-12 (2015)
Biggest Loss: 13-61 (1995)
@Thumper: I think Glenwood have 40 now with that little victory at Kings Park…
@Gungets Tuft: In terms of best results since time began, it’s College, DHS, Michaelhouse, Hilton, Glenwood, Kearsney, Northwood and Westville in that order…
@Thumper: From fewer games too.
@Anti Green: House has more wins against College than Glenwood 39 vs 42!
@Gungets Tuft: Thanks
@Gungets Tuft: MHS aren’t lloking bad this season either!
@Anti Green: Don’t be too downhearted – House has about the best results of any opposition in KZN, and there was a period in their history when they were dominant in KZN.
@Andre T: Give that dating site it maybe better than those results
@Anti Green: Hilton – First played in 1902 – Played 154, College won 104, Drawn 9, Hilton won 41
House – First played in 1901 – Played 151, College won 93, Drawn 16, House won 42
@Anti Green: On some dating site
@Thumper: Where can one find that?
@Tarpeys: Weak, check the MHS and Hilton win/loss ratio against College over the past 80 years.
@vlei: Is Pollard planning to retire soon?
@vlei: The Sharks are terrible anyway
@Anti Green: Go and sleep now……you’re putting a jinx on Rory
@Speartackle: when he has played currie cup you can clearly notice he doesn’t belong there, it’s a bit of a coincidence that the Sharks have played terribly with him injured….
@vlei: He’s just pissed that Pat has worked out his special at the Four Seasons Hotel and he walks Speartackle’s niece over to the Wheel to catch a flick.
@vlei: I don’t hate him, I just don’t rate him. Currie Cup is his ceiling. He should have switched to scrumhalf at school already.
@Speartackle: why are you hating on pat? He is a top class 10 with great leadership/temperament as well. Future springbok captain imho.
@Anti Green: Cheers mate………don’t send my regards to Pat
@Speartackle: Whahahahaha. Enjoy the golf.
@Anti Green: Yes and it’s walking distance to The Wheel
@Pedantic: the rankings are so flawed anyway. And let’s not forget most of the team plays first team for another sport and they don’t just play rugby!
@Speartackle: Four Season is a Lekker plek for an oke from the Freestate. You can really relax and unwind there. Almost like been back in your barn at home
@Anti Green: I always stay in the 4 Seasons………lekker there
@Anti Green: So is Gary Player’s son, Wayne
@Speartackle: Have you tried that special? Was it Lekker? Must have been, as I don’t think you get out much.
@Speartackle: He probably kissed your niece that why you don’t like him. He’s an old boy so we must support him all the way.
@Anti Green: You can have Pat’s back………..you and Pedantic……..nice threesome…………..there’s a special on at The Elangeni
@Speartackle: Jis, lekker turncoat. Glad you don’t have my back……
Why is Porcelain Pat such a cult hero in KZN?
Are all of you after his looks or what?
He looks like my niece
@Anti Green: And then he missed…….Sergio is my man now
@Pedantic: Interesting, thanks
@Anti Green: I can’t answer for other parents – I sent my kid to Kearsney to provide more balance in terms of education, sport and culture. If he was going to be the next Lambie, I would have sent him to GW from day 1 – no doubt in my mind.
Different strokes …
@Pedantic: I’m not sure anyone really cares except Bog and a few school kids. Maybe Spud does?
@Speartackle: Aren’t you meant to be watching golf, McIlroy just stuck it about 2 foot from the flag on the 13th.
@vlei: I agree with you – I’ve said in the past, I like the way MHS manage their season. Realistic opposition, not too many games and the boys enjoy their rugby.
Only thing is, then you can’t expect to be realistically ranked in the top 10 with school like GCB and Affies. But then again … do rankings really matter to MHS ?
@Anti Green: The next Pat Lambie? Why aim so low?
@Pedantic: Is that what parents want out of their kids and school? Surely there has to be more to it than pushing your kid to be the next Pat Lambie. Won’t these kids burn out, drop by the way side? As the world after school is a ugly place.
@Pedantic: why would they want to get more competitive? This is schoolboy rugby we are talking about, they are not professional and I think Hilton ( besides not playing Glenwood) and MHS have the right idea. You want your first team to be competitive I get that but think about the u 14 front row from Glenwood for instance. They are in a different league compared to the standard u14 front row- having kids scrum against kids 45 kgs + heavier than you it is dangerous. And also schools in this promise don’t have the depth to make competitive games in the lower teams against schools like Grey or Affies so if they had to cancel fixtures against St Charles (traditional) it would literally be walking into huge injuries because they are in a different league. Bottom line its schoolboys we are talking about and they don’t need to become more professional, I am sure you create more memories playing hard equal games compared to being slaughtered week in week out. MHS and Hilton have it right.
@Anti Green: Yes exactly, at Tier 1 1st XV level that’s about it at the moment – at least half of the players are on bursaries / scholarships. Off season starts the year before with pre season in Jan and many of the top players will have dropped their secondary sports.
Semi Pro – the only difference is they’re not salaried. (well lets hope not)
@Pedantic: Then aren’t you making it too professional for the kids. If they are to play better opposition outside of their province, then you have to breed a rugby kid. There is no way he can play multiple sports. Rugby season starts in April and ends in August. Recovery in September then training for next year starts in October/November. Professional School Boy Rugby Player.
After 12 (or more?) GW players were selected for the 2014 CW team there was a lot of hot air around this blog … I invited anyone to name any player that would be a better selection than the one selected – all we got was the sound of crickets.
@umbiloburger: Of 12 games, Kearsney have played 5 of the top 20 in the rankings plus Glenwood at rank 22. So that’s half their matches against top 22 opposition. Of the top 20, they only really got close to MHS, so I reckon their ranking is elevated.
From the results you can see it hasn’t worked out as there simply isn’t enough depth to take on that type of opposition on a regular basis.
I agree with your point though – that’s what KZN need to do to get more competitive.
@kosie: Proppie once dated his clean mother and after paying for her false teeth she dumped him
@Anti Green: Yes, ok, I concede, it’s all Golden.
@McCulleys Workshop: The other point Umbiloburger is making is that Glenwood are professional because they play so much rugby and against so many great teams. Other schools must follow in GW footsteps
@Speartackle: Where does Proppie fit in in the family?
@Speartackle: Haha – I hope you meant cleaning …
@GreenBlooded: That’s Andre T and his clean mother is 7 years older than him but he does her
@umbiloburger: Ok, it’s taken me awhile, but I think I might have what you are saying, Craven Week is in the July holidays, and a full rugby season means there are certain schools in KZN that play after the July holidays… This means we will be more competitive at Craven Week if more KZN schools played a full season and played a few games extra after Craven Week – OK I get it, makes sense…
And our schools need to play more competitive schools, like Grey etc. I’ve noticed a huge improvement in Glenwood over the last few years since they have been playing Grey and Affies, and participating at the KERF (I submit to Hoppers greater advice on this topic) … And KC have also improved, doing well against NK esv… What it does make me realize is this … That if MHS played more rugby and against better teams this year (and possibly the last few years) we would have given you 50 points this year and we would have given KC at least 70 (the ref was on our side). It is all clear to me now.
@Speartackle:
Speaking of Mother’s Day – do you still have a skoon-ma that’s younger than you? Or am I confusing you with Andre T?
@umbiloburger: Kuk, you just have to be in GW.
@Speartackle: You been outside the Free State? Did you get your passport stamped?
@umbiloburger: It’s a point worth noting. Becoming competitive against strong opposition does have benefits. But being like the Durban Development team vs another school at the PN Night Series, is of no benefit. You can’t learn anything if you don’t have ball and don’t a hope of getting it. Under those circumstances rather back up and go for level playing fields.
Within an average school team who plays tier-2 or lower opponents, you can still have get a match winner against the best big union. There are also plenty of examples of top pros today that did not come from tier-1 rugby schools. Last year SA schools had the likes of Heino Bezuidenhout, Cobus Wiese, Aston Fortuin and Edmund Rheeder – all boys from non-mainstream rugby schools.
There is also are a lot of top rugby people that say Wildeklawer is tougher than Craven Week, suggesting you may not need Top 20 exposure to perform well at CW.
I say the important ingredients are have good players and have team cohesion. So often the downfall of teams at CW is their inability to connect well as a unit due to limited playing time together.
@GreenBlooded: There were plenty of them in 1 Mil
@Speartackle:
It’s what you do in hospital if you are lucky enough to get a hot nurse.
@umbiloburger: What the hell is wardkiss?
Sounds like some fore play course
@umbiloburger: Pot is ok
@Speartackle: flippennhell hell…went to wardkiss with my wife and they gave her a pot plant. what the hell will they give us on Father’s Day? A hammer!!!!
@McCulleys Workshop: Lol
@Speartackle: Haha is that close to St Paddys Day?
@umbiloburger: What and take 50 week after week, and blame the ref, u19 opposition and injuries? That could help, I’ll have to think about it.
@umbiloburger: Gosh Umbilo………..it’s Mother’s Day……….for Paul’s sake………….forget about rugby……..talk crap man
@Anti Green: No some other schools are also doing it. But these players have to be really special to make it all the way through.
@McCulleys Workshop: IMO The problem doesn’t lie in the trials. It lies in our season. We only have 2 teams in KZN that play a full season and again another 1 that plays any suitable opposition, and by that I mean Top 20 tier schools. For KZN teams to only play each other and anticipate to be competitive at a provincial level just won’t cut it. Our players need to be exposed to pressure rugby on a regular basis. We need the likes of Northwood, DHS and perhaps even Michaelhouse and Kearsney to expose themselves regularly to the the Top 20 schools. This will make a huge difference to our CW team.
Someone is pissed off because the gave Vrede a miss during the Trek
@Anti Green: I also prefer Tiltleist………don’t know why he plays with Nike ones……….lol
@beet: Fortunately there will be no ” I told you so” this year……LOL
@Speartackle: I know a little about Jukskei. You think McIlroy has the balls to make a charge?
@Speartackle: I see we are playing the Golden Monnas in the first game at Craven Week and we are overdue for a big union win.
@beet: In what? …………Giant slalom?
@McCulleys Workshop: So true about the sum of the parts. KZN has opportunity to do well this season.
@Anti Green: Nope……I’m watching the Aussies thrashing the Chennai Super Kings and then McIlroy making a charge at TPC Sawgrass.
I’m sure you Last Outposters know zero about other sports
@Speartackle: For sure. It becomes too long winded and the same kuk all the time. Have a Lekker evening, enjoy Carte Blanche tonight. You do have a TV and get signal that side hey?
@Anti Green: You okes are too serious about the feeble standard of your teams…….you must talk a little crap in between as well
@Grasshopper: It seems we are haphazardly competitive. I also think we over rate ourselves. Let’s be honest, this isn’t an exceptional KZN year. The sum of the parts may produce good results, as long as we aren’t subjected to 8 players from one school and 3 from their second side!
@Speartackle: Whahahahaha stop it, you killing me.
@Anti Green: No sir…….it was all fiction. There were no witnesses……..telling you stories made up to charge up the nation.
@Speartackle: Haha, I’ve been to the Monument in Pretoria, I’ve seen the facts.
@Anti Green: The Groot Trek never happened………..it’s just a cinderella story to psyche up the dutchies
@Speartackle: Which selection process of a representative team in SA, is NOT a farce?
@Speartackle: Wasn’t it 3 years ago KZN beat WP? 5 years ago they ran Greystaat close. They certainly are no push overs. Considering KZN only have about 2 sides in the Top 20 they do pretty well. There are problems with selection, but then again ask the guys from Wynberg, SACS, Rondebosh and Bishops what they think of the WP system…
@Speartackle: The Groot Trek happened
KZN Rugby isn’t. What about all the boys from down South (Port Shepstone, Kuswag, Toti and Kingsway?) Please don’t say their rugby is weak, Toti Club beat Rovers on Saturday. Mainly with boys that went to those schools down South
Who are they kidding? Inviting players from Dundee, Eshowe, Tongaat, Munzieville? They’re wasting the children’s time.
At the bottom not even Beet bothers to count those representatives,
It’s the biggest farce since the Groot Trek
@Speartackle: Yip, and it’s not only rugby.
@Anti Green: Your whole system is a farce
@McCulleys Workshop: That’s maybe why KZN get hammered, as the wrong side is selected. The selection process is flawed.
@Speartackle: Haha – like put all the keys in a hat and see who jumps out, all reffed up
Keaton Bottriell ( Hilton and ex KZN junior golfer) was the stand out 12 at St John’s. No need for him to play trials, he should walk into the team. Rather practise his putting.
@McCulleys Workshop: I know, every year the whole KXN play trials for weeks and weeks with all these weird names like Southern Highwayers, North and East and Mitchell Park hobos and all the daddies and bored referees get so hyped up and they worry about the size of the jumpers and how many Glenwood imports make the teams and then they get thumped by some Combined Retired Teazers team. Stuff the trials and pick most of the team from the best current school and fill in a few PA’s from Glenwood
@Speartackle: Hahaha – you are right. Every year we have this “we think this could be our year” thesis… And we can’t get past Northern Cape Country Districts… And we make the most noise on this blog, we are bored in KZN
Don’t understand why KZN even have trials…….they’ll be nowhere this year
I think it’s absolute rubbish that Van Vuuren isnt in highway team for one, the fact he isn’t in a selectors team is ridiculous. How can a player of his form not be going to KZN trials? Why is Dahl not in midlands as well????
@umbiloburger: thanks, the Sevens were fantastic..South Stand is the place to be! Were you at the trials? So you feel it is fair that GW is allowed to have their U15’s go to the U16 trials? And then still make the Grant Khumalo side? Is GW the only school doing this?
In the CW + AW set up there are 44 places on offer.
18 for PD and 26 for PA.
Some regions like Border, EP, SWD, WP, Boland have no problem filling the 18 berths with top players from their regions.
KZN is fortunate in the sense that we are not too stretched to find 18 PD players – some regions have had to look at 2nd and even 3rd team quality players in the past.
For the 26 PA players no region has an issue.
A reasonable split of this 14-12 (some might say 15-11) forwards:backs
In KZN we ahve quality concerns at scrumhalf so at least 3 PA players stand to be selected in this possie, meaning 9 PA player spots available for positions #10-#15.
Only 9. KZN cannot afford to select anyone except the most deserving 9 PA backline players for these spots.
@Anti Green: Hey welcome back…trust you enjoyed the sevens. No U16C team players but I see that 4 of their U15A side have made the South DBN side…deservedly I might add.
@Rugger fan: Sorry and WP has just restructured their system. 44 places with so many good schools to choose from means virtually no chance for 2nd XV players at trials down there. A couple of years back the PBH lock Burger got dropped to the 2nd XV but I think by then he had already made the CW team and even had a Bulls contract plus he had started out as PBH captain if I was not mistaken. So an unusual case rather than a norm.
@Rugger fan: There is politics in all the unions. KZN must set the bar and show others how to run a good system. In addition to that we need a fresh approach to CW preparation in order to do well at the event. The latter I can’t see happening under Ingle’s watch.
In Free State going by what I saw last year. 13 Grey Bloem players got picked, 9 Louis Botha players made up the quota and the other Bloem schools were the main contributors to the AW team. There was not much opportunity for the Cherries players. Under different circumstances more Cherries probably deserved to get picked. However the Bloem City League places pressure on Grey to play local games and I guess they have a big say in selections as well, seeing that they have the power to exclude Grey players from selection if Grey does not play Bloem City league games.
In Pretoria, the Bulls seem to have big hands on approach. At one stage the selection process was dominated by Affies and Klofies players but the rise to prominence of Centurion for a while and Garsies with Menlo of late coupled with the imported players at Southdowns also sees virtually no place for 2nd XV players in their set up. They also run a Noordvaal u19 team, but even here you see the smaller rugby schools getting a player or two in.
By the way Happy Mothers Day to all the rugby moms out there
@Stripes: GW send their u16c team to the Grant Khumalo trials. It’s a joke
Does anyone know how the Grey Cherries – or PRG/PBH 2nd XV get an edge at the trials?
Perhaps that could give a good indication?
Alternatively perhaps the “catchment areas” need to be revised for Durban?
I think it is completely ridiculous that the Glenwood 2nd side goes to trials! Glenwood 1st team can’t beat KC or House, I can understand if a player is identified in any schools 2nd team then maybe the selectors believe he deserves a chance, but the whole team. I am not close to this process at all but it seems to me that it needs a major change process. Nothing I hate more than personal bias causing unfair treatment of passionate young men. Wonder if this is linked in any way to the problems that seem to be coming to the surface in the Sharks system. The whole KZN rugby area may need looking at. Such a pity when we have such good schools, players and potential!
@umbiloburger: With regards to Van Vuuren being selected, I merely used the Glenwood player as an example to illustrate a downfall of the system in that the selectors missed the opportunity to invite an in-form player, who based on current form is better than a player who will be at trials. Hooker is one of the most hotly contested positions this year.
I’m not sure why you have confused that with me blaming Glenwood.
But the fact remains that virtually the whole Glenwood 2nd XV got advanced to main trials from a weaker zone as far as compo is concerned, while a quality 1st XV player like van Vuuren who played in of a very competitive zone containing two other good hookers missed out.
@umbiloburger: You can stereotype me if you like, this blog offers you that platform. I continue to find plenty of opportunity to praise worthy Glenwood players for their achievements, to the extent that the school’s marketing dept sometimes copies and pastes match reports off this site to circulate to other media.
For me the drive is a selection process that doesn’t create doubt in anyone’s mind. You have to decide if you share that motive or if you are more interested in creating a smokescreen.
The process should make every effort to reward the better players with opportunity through selection.
All players should view trials as an acknowledgement and it should be an honour to get an invitation to Woodburn.
A school like Glenwood should feel comfortable knowing that even if their representation was reduced to having the same say as all the others, their best players would still be picked, because they trust the system to reward quality. Until they feel that way work still has to be done. This should be the common objective of all the KZN schools.
Glenwood are main benefits from the trial process in it’s current form to the extent that they have almost double the number of players in a year when their results do not back this up.
The AGM vote of no confidence is a must this year. The other schools must unite on this decision. Noel Ingle has had his time in the leadership role. He needs to step aside. KZN needs to offer someone else the opportunity to see if a better job can be done. We will never know unless we try.
@umbiloburger: it’s a blog, not a newspaper. If we enforced neutrality then blogs would not exist.
@Grasshopper: There was a difference back then, College were generally completely dominant, many reasons. I can tell you that College never had 2nd and 3rd team players at trials, and the numbers of players selected would generally be representative of school strength in the province. I get that coaches pick players they know well, but when selector representation is skewed then it’s bound to have an effect. In the past College was denied a spot because Strudders was not a teacher, but this year that’s suddenly not required. It’s transparent bull.
@h2o: Sorry h2o but I can’t explain it, I am not a selector. If I was, I certainly wouldn’t have selected some of those players. But that isn’t GW’s fault.@Gungets Tuft: I am not convinced about the neutrality matter. But that’s my opinion.
@Gungets Tuft: I think there has always been bias over the years and there always will be as it involves people. Heyneke Meyer will always pick a player he knows over another he doesn’t. He does have a Bulls bias. For me the selectors need to be neutral or the committee fully balanced. Pinheiro should not be there as an example. As an example during the Skonk years as Natal Schools coach, no matter how neutral and upstanding he was he definitely picked College players ahead of those he didn’t know as well. I can tell you many great Glenwood players never made Natal Schools but shone later. I think College and Westville need to take a stand and insist on more representation….simple as that really…
@umbiloburger: Well that’s the point, isn’t it. Even the players themselves approach trials with cynicism, believing the teams are preselected. In the same way as the selection committee horse trade positions, so do they horse trade positions in the teams. Only the extremely naive would believe that the trials and selections are on a rugby basis only (forget about quotas, school rugby is way past the point where black players don’t select themselves on merit), the backroom negotiating holds sway. Rankings and the marketing that goes along with it is the big stick.
Your comments on Beet staying neutral are disingenuous, he has a right to an opinion, and with his in depth knowledge of the game in KZN (and elsewhere) he is uniquely qualified to comment. It is instructive though, how you regard his commentary as “anti Glenwood”. Basically you’re taking the “for us or against us” stance. It’s not a binary argument, reducing it to that is just trying to stifle discussion.
@h2o: I think the key issue I have is the Glenwood 2nd side is not smashing other schools 2nd teams like they did in previous years, in fact they have lost a few to College and Kearsney to name 2. Therefore, none of the Glenwood 2nd team players should have been sent to trials. The whole 1st team I have no issue with. Maybe they should pick the Academy side from the big schools 2nd teams and allow all the big school 2nd teams to attend a separate trial. An example for me was the Kearsney 2nd team wing and scrummie vs Glenwood were better than their 1st team players on the day. By sending the 2nd team players to an Academy trial we won’t have good players slip the net so to speak. I think it’s only fair all get the same opportunity….
@umbiloburger: you are missing the whole point of this discussion. …. no need to get defensive once again this is not a attack on gw. What myself and beet is saying is that there are kids left out that are better than kids in other regions and that unfortunately includes undeserving Glenwood players…. so please explain so we can undesrtand how those players get a chance to go to trials in not their regular zone teams and others more deserving dont get a chance??????? And before you get defensive this is by no means a attack on Glenwood as i fully agree with most of the Glenwood boys selected. ….
@beet: Firstly I thought that you would maintain a neutral stance in the matter being the owner of this blog. However I see you have joined the anti GW crew.
Secondly, I never attended the trials but can you imagine if GW only sent their 1stXV to trials and between them and the sprinkle of players that attend from the balance of the schools, they can’t make 2 teams of 15 players. Then what? Glenwood do have a strong contingent of players some of whom are black and some white. It is not Glenwood that sets out the black player requirements. It is SARU.
Thirdly, Noel Ingle I believe is heavily involved in the SA Schools side of things. His admin and leadership can’t be that bad. I am also certain that the trials logistics are determined by Quinton Reynolds and not Noel Ingle. At the KZN AGM I am sure all schools have an equal vote. If there is a weighting system to advantage bigger schools please let us know.
What happens in South DBN trials has no bearing whatsoever on what happens in Highways or Northdurban trials. it is absurd that GW be blamed because van Vuuren hasn’t been selected. Also I am absolutely 100% convinced that no player from any school that has a real opportunity of making a regional or provincial team just doesnt go to trials as they are a waste of time. There must be an underlying factor here. One can speculate but that wouldn’t be fair.
I suggest that we let the selections happen and then see what cream comes to the surface……then comment.
@beet: Totally agree with you, there needs to be a fair structure. As a passionate GOB I can tell you I’m not happy when there is a perception Glenwood get’s their reps just because of the selectors etc. I only want Glenwood players there if they deserve to be there and on merit. There isn’t much that can be done on the PD rules so maybe Glenwood benefit from that as they have quite a few PD’s, however many of those PD’s would be there anyway on merit. Realistically these boys should be in either the CW or Academy side, Klopper (CW), Botha (Ac), Mchunu (CW), Palvie (CW), Brummer (Ac), Dubizane (Ac), Bossr (CW – utility back), Du Randt (CW), Maduna (Ac), Blose (Ac), Mukendi (CW) and Morgan (Ac)…..that would be very fair…..but I fear there will be more unfortunately. Some in the trials teams I have never even heard of…
It turns out Ryan Anderson chose not to go to trials, but he is a brilliant player and should be put in a team regardless. He was fantastic today vs DHS.
@h2o: Van Vuuren played a single chukka at Highway trials – no idea why – other players played at least 3.
@h2o: I also feel bad for the kids who either don’t get the opportunity or who now feel its a waste of time to attend trials.
I watched the Northwood 15 Stevens play against Parktown. I thought he had a good game and his timing to be in form was perfect as trials were 2 days later. Sadly he didn’t think it was worth the effort to attend. So even at the zonal North Durban trials level there is a perception of “waste of time”. If I was chairman I would work hard on my structure to change this perception, particularly if its the region where my home school participates.
Then I think of what Vlei was saying. A player like Ryan Anderson of MHS – a first choice player in that dynamic line of theirs, who probably would relish the opportunity and is better than a number of players who are going to play.My own feeling is that both Ryan and his twin would make better 10’s than the GC player who is part of the HP.
For me Van Vuuren is unfortunate. He has been one of Kearsney’s good players. He was a loose forward last year, a wing the year before that and hasn’t mastered the practice/art of lineout throwing to the back, which places him at a disadvantage. But even so I believe he is a better candidate than the Glenwood 2nd team hooker who has really struggled to find his jumpers even in the front and is not as prominent as Van Vuuren in loose play. The Glenwood player is gr11 and has time to improve but with the 1st choice being gr11 as well, he will probably play 2nds next year too. If I was a selector, observing this condition, I would insist on having a second look at Van Vuuren and have put him in one of the selectors teams. On the surface it seems like the entire Glenwood 2nd team players were chosen ahead of 1st XV players from other schools.
I feel for Van vuuren …if you go on form then he should be in the top 4 no 2’s at this stage. Surely a season or even a go at higher honours should not be hinged on a single or 2 chuckas. I feel there are hookers in the various teams who a) cannot throw into a lineout and b) cannot finish a game due to ongoing injuries….. i suppose it is the same for some other positions as mentioned in above comments. It is a waste sending boys to trials just to boast x amount from a school made main trials….. we are depriving more deserving players a chance which means you are jeopardising kzn chances of sending a stronger side to the various weeks.
@umbiloburger: I don’t get it though. Some of the main trials selectors attend the various zonal trials, then all of them attend the South Durban trial. Then they presumably pick selectors team/s and determine that the whole of the Glenwood 2nd XV has performed better in one of the weaker zonal trials regions (as a result of Glenwood being so dominant in their region), than most of the other schools 1st XV players who played in more competitive zonal trials (more 1st XV players involved).
Something does not appear to fit. Maybe a signed off independent audit would make people like myself feel more comfy with the process.
I’m hoping that for all the other major KZN schools taking part in this process, they treat this selection of 29 as the final straw and finally start to work together to bring about changes.
Step 1 I believe is to see that the current chairman Noel Ingle is replaced. I think this is now a vital first step. Tony Pineiro must not be the chairman waiting in the wings either
Step 2 is to see who the Exec can be reformed. The major schools in KZN must all have an equal say. Smaller schools like George Campbell who I have tremendous respect for, for the effort they put in to keeping rugby alive and healthy on a small budget, must have a say proportionate to their overall contribution – here perhaps one candidate to represent the smaller rugby schools but voted in by all those schools. That might mean Ingle would lose out to a guy Jeremy McLaren but at least it would be by a fair voting process.
There must be more rotation in the leadership – set terms in office
Step 3 No school must have more than one selector. Currently Glenwood and Kearsney have 2 each, while College has NIL, ZERO, NONE! Neither does DHS, Northwood, Clifton, St Charles for that matter.
Attempts to introduce performance related measures for selectors, so that deadwood can quickly be replaced.
At trials we need to implement more of the ideas of the ideas of Youth Club Rugby.
The trial teams themselves must be mixed to avoid unfair cohesion advantages. Players from greater Durban into mixed teams. Players from PMB Midlands into mixed teams. They can still hold pre-trials practice as Balgowan-PMB 40km and Botha’s Hill-Durban 40km. CD teams no changes in setup required.
Finally I firmly believe that even with changes Glenwood would still have a large number of 1st XV representatives because they have some bloody good players. But the days of their 2nd XV players all getting in will be over.
The trials process won’t live happily ever after. It will still have challenges. But it will be in a better place.
@McCulleys Workshop: I understand why he’s there though. The selectors need to see all the quality PD options available to them. I would have picked him ahead of the George Campbell flyhalf anyway. The MHS player has better skills in all departments, just not as big as the GC player. The GC player, who is not PD seems to have amazing luck on his side. Last year he was challenged to make basic passes and even now still has problems reading the game or knowing when to pass, yet he advanced all the way to final trials in 2014 and this year he is in the KZN HP squad. I think I could name about 20 – 30 players who would make better flyhalves than him starting with Matthew Noot of DHS, who lost out in North Durban trials.
Anyway good luck to the GC player. He doesn’t pick the team, he just goes out and tries his best. Being a George Campbell staff member I’m sure Noel Ingle the KZN chairman is very proud of his student’s overachievements and wishes him continued luck in his quest to make either the Academy week or Craven Week team.
@Grasshopper: Good question – I see a No 10 from MHS also at trials who must be in the 2nd side. I don’t get that. Spose they need someone to kick pass and tackle to make full sides for trials.
@umbiloburger: I am aware of that, but still only 15 plus a couple should attend trials. Why are Glenwood sending 30 plus to trials?
@Grasshopper: I hear your debate, but with only Glenwood, Port Natal and a few small schools to choose from one shouldn’t be surprised. If van Vuuren was good enough should he not be included in the selectors teams? If not then both groups of selectors are consistent in the viewing of him.
For me Klopper, Mchunu, Botha, Palvie, Brummer, Bossr, Du Randt, Morgan, Holtzhausen & Mukendi are deserving of selection, the rest no….
@Grasshopper: exactly. I don’t think it’s fair that so many of them get to play but guys like Van Vuuren are excluded. Especially considering they have lost domestically this season
29 is just ridiculous! Especially considering the Glenwood 2nd side has lost quite a few local games. At best the starting 15 plus Blose, Dubizane and Maduna should be there, making 18. How is this allowed every year?
@Vlei
Connor Botha is injured
Connor Botha??
@Pedantic: Eish – what a team.
I wonder if any other Province has a similar club structure apart from the Bulls? Lots of depth there.
Just noticed Kitching from Westville is missing also, a real pity he didn’t stay at KC – the boy has talent and his coach doesn’t give him the support required. Named as HVJR U18 captain last year and withdrew due to his school coach’s insistence.
@Rugger fan: How’s this for a Club trials team …. all players in the lists above:
1.A. PEVERELLE (PMB Collegians)
2.H. PRINSLOO (Hillcrest / Collegians) D. LEE (Collegians)
3.S. STOLTZ (Collegians)
4.L. HEFER (Collegians)
5.M. NTULI (Varsity College)
6.K. NICHOLSON (Hillcrest)/ K. THUNDER (Hillcrest)
7.D. MULLER (Collegians) / R. VOSLOO (Collegians)
8.T. DIXON (Hillcrest)/ Z. HEYNEKE (Varsity College)
9.G. SIMPSON (Crusaders / Varsity College)
10.G. COETZEE (Collegians)
11.D. MCGHEE (Hillcrest)
12.L. NDABANDABA(Varsity College) / B. BOULLE (Hillcrest)
13.J. WHEELER (Hillcrest)
14.T. KOCK (Hillcrest)
15.D. BRYAN (Varsity College)/ A. ALASAUSKIS (Hillcrest)
And some school coaches diss the club system ? Some of these boys have been playing at their clubs for 12 years!
@Pedantic:
Very true! It looks like it’s going to be one or the other – very unfortunate since they are both very good players.
@vlei: Because in all honesty, Foster could just be the best 15 in the province!
@GreenBlooded: Hahahaha! I wasn’t thinking there’s anything sinister. You’ve answered my question with the geographical breakdown. I was just concerned about fairness, considering that the Glenwood 1st XV gets to play trials as a team, while others still need to know each other. I guess it’s just tough luck then
Hilton/MHS vs Glenwood. Should be interesting, curios as to why Furniss is at 13.
@Pedantic:
“The benefits far outweigh the negatives. I’m going to take a look through and see how many have been in the club structures.”
Agreed – just look at one Dixon at Kearsney!
@GreenBlooded: If that was their reasoning then maybe, but that’s not their reasoning. For some of them it’s an ego thing … for others it because they coach at opposition clubs.
The benefits far outweigh the negatives. I’m going to take a look through and see how many have been in the club structures.
@GreenBlooded:
Perhaps gives some support to the school coaches who don’t want their top players playing club in the off season……
@Buffel:
Must be almost a year now. I was there when it happened – eish, not lekker.
@Tarpeys:
Yes of course….
I stand corrected.
@GreenBlooded: Feel for him but not quiet ready for full contact. That kind of injury needs real time to heal. If he comes back too soon and injures it again, he won’t get back onto a rugger field.
@GreenBlooded: Wrong. Midlands is Michaelhouse and Hilton with Treverton and Weston. College and St Charles are in the weak Pietermaritzburg region.
@Pedantic:
Very small consolation…..
This was his year to shine. Poor oke must be bleak.
@GreenBlooded: I don’t think he’s quite ready yet … pretty sure he will make a big comeback in the VC U18 Club side during Colts season.
@Playa:
It’s the way the regions are structured – sort of like ward demarcations in the elections.
In South Durban – it’s only really Glenwood and Port Natal.
North Durban – DHS, Clifton, Campbell, Northwood
Highways – Kearsney and Westville
Midlands – College, Hilton, House, St Charles.
Glenwood will always get 95-100% of the South Durban berths. A function of Geography – nothing sinister unless you are a conspiracy theorist. Perhaps they need to restructure the format. Clearly it is harder for a boy at Hilton to make it being up against 3 other top schools.
@Pedantic:
What is the latest news on Rudi Havenga? Is he playing again? Sad not to see his name on the lists if he is.
@Pedantic: Just seen that-a very poor call . I feel for him
Well done on the Westville front row- good call Pedantic. KC have a fair sprinkling as expected in the highway side and MHS an almost full compliment. If the selectors get the PDA’s right we could be again in with a shout if we win on day 1.
@Playa: They were obviously the best players at the South Durban trials – nothing untoward there, but it makes it tough for the team playing against them at main trials.
@Rugger fan: I posted the u16 trials now now
@Rugger fan: Big one missing from Kearsney is van Vuuren who has been one of our standouts all season albeit out of position- I feel he should have been given a shot at 6 – we see some 2nd team players at 6 in other teams.
Somehow I think sense will prevail and he will be called in – travesty of justice if not.
Nice to see Glenwood getting 2 sides to final trials again. DHS 11 and they are borderline 2nd tier. And the circus begins.
@Rugger fan: How does that happen though? Surely those boys have an advantage over others
South Durban has 15 GW boys in it
Can’t see anyone missing?
Any news on the GK U16s yet? I know the teams were announced already too.