I asked Old Grey blogger “BOG” to help out with arguably the most difficult to select Craven Week team of the last ten years of them all – the Free State team. With so much quality being churned out by Grey College annually, to compare and then choose one player over another per position is subjective. Here is BOG’s personal choice with a few footnotes on the method he adopted:
| # | BOG’s Free State team | Close 2nd choice |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Ox Nche | |
| 2 | PW van Vuuren | |
| 3 | Coenie Oosthuizen | Ruan Kramer |
| 4 | Jean Cook | |
| 5 | Pieter Labuschagne | Waltie Vermeulen |
| 6 | Richardt Strauss | |
| 7 | Heinrich Brussouw | |
| 8 | Deon Stegmann | |
| 9 | Daniel Calitz | |
| 10 | Johan Goosen | Sias Ebersohn |
| 11 | Ruwellyn Isbell | |
| 12 | Robert Ebersohn | Jan Serf./Frans Venter/Paul Jordaan |
| 13 | Piet Lindeque | WWS/Dries Swanepoel/Lionel Mapoe |
| 14 | Henry Immelman | |
| 15 | Riaan Britz | EW Viljoen |
| 16 | Baksteen van Heerden | |
| 17 | Stephan Kotze | |
| 18 | Teboho Mohoje | |
| 19 | Boom Prinsloo | |
| 20 | KK Hlongwane | Kevin Luiters |
| 21 | JJ de Klerk | |
| 22 | Marius Louw |
1) I compared apples with apples- ie I compared the 1’s with the other 1’s, right to 22 on the team sheets, from 2004 – 2013.
2) I looked at them as school players in the positions they played then and not subsequent to leaving school. Eg. Labuschagne was nr 5 in 2007 at CW, but now plays 7 for the Cheetahs. Frans Steyn was 10 at CW. Robert Ebersohn was 15 in 2006 and Raymond Rhule also represented Free State at 15.
3) In a few positions like centre it is close to impossible to decide who was best.
THE FREE STATE CRAVEN WEEK TEAMS 2004 – 2013
| # | 2013 | # | 2012 | # | 2011 | # | 2010 | # | 2009 |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Ox Nche | 1 | Ox Nche | 1 | Kwena Moremi | 1 | Rudolf Fuls | 1 | Stephan Kotze |
| 2 | Andrew du Plessis | 2 | Cornelius Els | 2 | Ockert du Toit | 2 | Anrich Bitzi | 2 | Baksteen van Heerden |
| 3 | Ruan Kramer | 3 | Ruan Kramer | 3 | Neethling Fouche | 3 | Neethling Fouche | 3 | Stephan Pretorius |
| 4 | Victor Maruping | 4 | Awie Thompson | 4 | Thuso Chalatsi | 4 | Cobus Nel | 4 | Nkululeko Mthethwa |
| 5 | Casper Fourie | 5 | Dylan Harlen | 5 | Gerhard Olivier | 5 | Gerhard Olivier | 5 | Carl Wegner |
| 6 | Refiole Rampeta | 6 | Refuoe Rampeta | 6 | Henco Greyling | 6 | Henco Greyling | 6 | Oscar Limani |
| 7 | Marius Louw (c.) | 7 | Gareth de Bruin | 7 | Leneve Damens | 7 | Heinrich Douglas | 7 | Jean Cook |
| 8 | Andries Kriek | 8 | Edward Schmidt | 8 | Nicolaas Immelman | 8 | Niell Jordaan | 8 | Niell Jordaan |
| 9 | Heinrich Sander | 9 | Juandre van den Bergh | 9 | Kay-Kay Hlongwane | 9 | Kevin Luiters | 9 | Pieter Rademan (c.) |
| 10 | Julian Delicado | 10 | Barend Bornman | 10 | Pieter Jordaan | 10 | Johan Goosen | 10 | Johan Goosen |
| 11 | Sheldon Fortuin | 11 | Sheldon Fortuin | 11 | Ruwellyn Isbell | 11 | Inus Keyser | 11 | Chejana Mallane |
| 12 | Aliqhayiya Mgijima | 12 | Stephan Jv Rensburg | 12 | Jan Serfontein | 12 | Paul Jordaan | 12 | Mzuvukile Duma |
| 13 | Stephen Rautenbach | 13 | Pieter Jordaan | 13 | Dries Swanepoel (c.) | 13 | William Small-Smith (c.) | 13 | Piet Lindeque |
| 14 | Henry Immelman | 14 | Olwethu Ndakisa | 14 | Franscois Pretorius | 14 | Sethu Tom | 14 | Siyasanga Mkunku |
| 15 | EW Viljoen | 15 | EW Viljoen | 15 | Wihan Lombard | 15 | Raymond Rhule | 15 | Riaan Britz |
| 16 | Martin Wipplinger | 16 | Kale Sebotsa | 16 | Frans Jordaan | 16 | Armandt Stoman | 16 | van Zyl Botha |
| 17 | Ruben Terblanche | 17 | Andrew du Plessis | 17 | Rudolf Botha | 17 | Rudolf Botha | 17 | Lerato Ramahlape |
| 18 | De Wet Bezuidenhout | 18 | Byran Matthews | 18 | Hendrik-Schalk Theron | 18 | Thuso Chalatsi | 18 | Heinrich Douglas |
| 19 | Whaseem Gallant | 19 | Luke Cyster | 19 | Mosoeu Vincent Maruping | 19 | Aphiwe Mahlati | 19 | Egbert Ras |
| 20 | Sharwin Cupido | 20 | Guillermo Minnie | 20 | Mualaba Mukendi | 20 | Kay-Kay Hlongwane | 20 | Frederick Ras |
| 21 | Masego Toolo | 21 | Stanley Ramoetsana | 21 | Arnoldus Vosloo | 21 | Jan De Klerk | 21 | Sethu Tom |
| 22 | Patrick Mbangi | 22 | Marius Louw | 22 | Jannie Strumpher | 22 | Dylan Douglas | 22 | Brian Malakeane |
| # | 2008 | # | 2007 | # | 2006 | # | 2005 | # | 2004 |
| 1 | John-Henry Harris | 1 | Richard Harris | 1 | Roché vd Westhuizen | 1 | Kevin Stevens | 1 | Frans Labuschagne |
| 2 | Johannes Swanepoel | 2 | Frank Herne | 2 | PW v Vuuren | 2 | Moekoa Bolofo | 2 | Hercu Liebenberg |
| 3 | Stephan Pretorius | 3 | Coenie Oosthuizen | 3 | Hendrik vd Merwe | 3 | Sewes Oosthuizen | 3 | Stephen Pitchers |
| 4 | Jean Cook | 4 | Tumelo Moholo | 4 | Sybrand Mostert | 4 | Sybrand Mostert | 4 | Antonie Pretorius |
| 5 | Tumelo Moholo | 5 | Pieter Labuschagne | 5 | Waltie Vermeulen | 5 | Marnus Briedenhann | 5 | Gerhard Human |
| 6 | Oscar Limani | 6 | Moekoa Bolofo | 6 | David Swart | 6 | Jaco Lotter | 6 | Richardt Strauss |
| 7 | Ryno Fourie | 7 | Roelof Pienaar | 7 | JP Roux | 7 | Freiderich Kamffer | 7 | Heinrich Brussow |
| 8 | Adriaan Theisinger (c.) | 8 | Adriaan Theisinger | 8 | Erik le Roux | 8 | Coenraad Pieterse | 8 | Deon Stegmann |
| 9 | Pieter Rademan | 9 | Izak Muller | 9 | Daniel Calitz (c.) | 9 | Donald Stevens | 9 | Donald Stevens |
| 10 | Franna du Toit | 10 | Sias Ebersohn | 10 | Sias Ebersohn | 10 | Bernd Theisinger | 10 | Francois Steyn |
| 11 | Jamba Ulengo | 11 | Hadley Smith | 11 | Mathys Landman | 11 | Aaron Tobias | 11 | Pieter Van Zyl |
| 12 | Francois Venter | 12 | Robert Ebersohn (c.) | 12 | Ruaan Jacobs | 12 | JW Jonker (c.) | 12 | JW Jonker |
| 13 | Piet Lindeque | 13 | Johan van Schalkwyk | 13 | Lionel Mapoe | 13 | Wayne Stevens | 13 | Herman Pretorius |
| 14 | Christoffer Boucher | 14 | Mayibuye Ndwandwa | 14 | Hadley Smith | 14 | Pieter-Roux Du Toit | 14 | Renaldo du Preez |
| 15 | Riaan Britz | 15 | Wilton Pietersen | 15 | Robert Ebersohn | 15 | Lefa Mosena | 15 | Philip Snyman |
| 16 | Baksteen van Heerden | 16 | James Hellawell | 16 | Moekoa Bolofo | 16 | Barend Van Wyngaard | 16 | Tobias Alexander |
| 17 | Stephan Kotze | 17 | Johannes Mpande | 17 | Coenie Oosthuizen | 17 | Setlhake Malebo | 17 | Shane Coetzee |
| 18 | Teboho Mohoje | 18 | Johan Geldenhuys | 18 | Kemsley Wesso | 18 | Kemsley Wesso | 18 | Motseki Motsoeneng |
| 19 | Nkululeko Mthethwa | 19 | Boom Prinsloo | 19 | Thamsanqa Mcinga | 19 | David Chevu | 19 | Wesley Daniels |
| 20 | Mzuvukile Duma | 20 | Thamsanqa Mcinga | 20 | Blaine Thlapane | 20 | Wayne Smith | 20 | Anwar Beukes |
| 21 | Thuso Mokgwetsi | 21 | Egan Gysman | 21 | Egan Gysman | 21 | Wesley Daniels | 21 | Aaron Tobias |
| 22 | Tsholofelo Mojanaga | 22 | Blaine Thlapane | 22 | John Mothiba | 22 | John Mothiba | 22 | Ralston Jansen |
@McCulleys Workshop: I wonder what happened to Arlow and Pearton.
@Grasshopper: Ya I watched them play MHS at MHS. GW dominated much of the game, and were 22 – 14 up with about 5 minutes to go, and we came back to draw 22 all in the last 5. Good Glenwood side.
@McCulleys Workshop: If Michaelhouse had a great 2007 side, Glenwood had a pretty good one in 2008, these boys made KZN schools;
2008 A.P. Arlow
2008 K. Beeton
2008 F. Kleinhans
2008 S.J. Malton (SA Schools)
2008 S. Pearton
2008 S.D. Smith
2008 A.K. Zungu
Arlow and Pearton were a great half back pairing
@meadows: RE the 2007 side, if I remember correctly the MHS side pitched at Goldstones thinking they had wrapped up the season domestically and got taken out by a rampant College side. It cost me a case of the golden nectar.
@meadows: wow, quite a boxer Brian was, must have been related somehow. Sporting genes! I agree maybe the guys were 100kg plus, looking at pics again! Barker looked like a pitbull and La Marque more skillful and lean. I did hear Barker became a bouncer and bodybuilder, hard ass mother%#€><<! I do now remember another monster at Glenwood Dom Sjunka! He was a beast!
@Grasshopper: They were both big guys even by todays standards. I suspect they could have been around the 100kg mark but you could be right. Barker bulked up significantly after school and at some point must have been well over 120kg. He even played a bit in the front row at Collegians and became a Springbok powerlifter.
Here is a link to the “other” Baronet I was referring to;
http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles/2355-from-baronet-to-sanchez-who-s-to-blame
@meadows: http://durbanzone.co.za/mag/index.php/2013/10/23/legends-return-alma-mater-glenwood-prep-2/. Not sure if they related to any boxers…sorry
@Grasshopper: BC Smith in 84 & 85 was until 1992 the biggest player ever to play for Glenwood at 17 years old was 6foot4 and 109kg. These days he would be considered average. Since then we have had Leyton Pardey in 1992, played KZN Schools at about 125kg and then John-Roy Jenkinson at 128kg..
@meadows: Yep, so those guys were huge for the time but probably only 95kg max each, how times change…
@Grasshopper: My apologies – I defer to your records – I didn’t recall that La Marque played in ’77.
You are quite correct – there was no age limit.
La Marque would have been 17 in ’77 so 19 when he played SA Schools in ’79.
Mike Barker was 18 in ’77 therefore also 19 when he played SA Schools.
Remember that in the 70’s most people finished school in the year that you turned 17
@meadows: Here is my list of Glenwood KZN Players in the late 70’s to late 80’s
1977 DR. La Marque
1977 P.J. Judkins
1978 D.R. La Marque
1979 D.R. La Marque (SA Capt)
1979 A.B. Hardie
1979 MR. Armitage
1979 C.R.Tyack
1980 CL. Kretzschmar
1980 C.F. Haden
1981 C.E. Muller
1983 D.B. Baronet
1984 F.H. Swanepoel (c)
1984 D.B. Baronet
1984 B.C. Smith
1985 D.B. Baronet (SA)
1985 B.C. Smith
1986 T.L. Labuschange
1987 T.L. Labuschange
1987 B.W. Aigner
1987 W.M. Williams
1988 W.P. Groupe
1988 T.I. Longden
1988 E.F. Maree
1988 D.J. Richards
1988 P. Senekal (vc)
1989 D.J. Richards
1989 P. Senekal
1989 B.M. Holmes
My uncle was at DHS in the late 70’s funnily enough with Trevor Kershaw, the Glenwood headmaster and he said Barker was frightening!! No age tests then though….
@rugbyfan: There were two Richters from GCB in the ’77 SA Schools side – Jan and Toppie.
@Roger: Joe van Niekerk was an outstanding schoolboy player.
@Grasshopper:
Don’t want to nitpick, and i agree that Dereck Lamarque was an outstanding schoolboy player, but I don’t recall him playing in ’77. Paul Judkins and a No 8 named Watkins both from Glenwood went to CW. There was a post CW game that year as a curtain raiser at Kings Park against Transvaal but I seem to recall Barker, judkins and watkins as the loose trio there as well. Barker played in CW ’77 and ’78 and La Marque in ’78 and ’79 if memory serves. Mike Barker was the SA Schools No 8 in ’78 and a very scary prospect on a schoolboy rugby field.
@BOG:
Indeed – sadly the way the feeder structure to the pro game works currently that is going to happen less and less. I’m pretty sure that Butch James also played seconds at College as did that DHS Ob who played lock for NZ a few years back – cant remember his name offhand.
@rugbyfan: Believe me if I say that I remember those sides VERY well. Either Badboys dad or uncle should as well. But 1971, with Pilot (3)as captain, was better. Thats the team which beat Affies in score as well as the “famous” fight. And of course the centre which I referred to above, played then too.@meadows: As i pointed out earlier, the Third team SH for 2007, Van Zyl, has become a Springbok, The second side (Cherries) SH, Cobus Reinach, is playing for the Sharks and Muller who played first team has stopped playing rugby. A nice story to tell his kids and a message for all young players who dont neccessarily make it big at school.
@Roger: I’ll add Derek La Marque to those schoolboy No8’s, played 4 years KZN schools I think and captained SA Schools rugby and SA Schools waterpolo in 1979. He played SA men’s waterpolo at school. An absolute machine I was told, him and Barker from DHS made up 2/3rds of arguably KZN’s best loose trio. I think Hugh Reece Edwards and Jamieson played in the same year. Hugh Reece Edwards also used to single handedly win games for Northlands!
to give this article some Northern flavour Joe Van Niekerk was one of the best schoolboy number eights around. He was the inter high 200m champion, made SA Schools and singlehandedly demolished Affies and Monnas 1998. Those who saw him play in his schoolboy days were unanimous in their awe.
Another unbelievable school player was Hennie Wiggett
@Grasshopper: What happened to Dennis Baronet – I remember him but cant recall him playing much post school. Was he related to Brian and Robbie? The late Brian was an outstanding boxer and good mate of mine.
@meadows: Typo – Ebersohn’s 2007 SA Schools centre partner was Earl Snyman
@BOG: I mentioned in an earlier post that it is difficult not to let subsequent development detract from recollections of performance at a schoolboy level.
I suspect that in Robert Ebersohn’s case his perceived lack of size has hindered his progression to the highest level. IMO lack of progress, or failure to fulfill perceived potential, after school should not detract from how well an individual or team did at that level.
By way of example and , Ebersohn’s 2007 SA Schools centre partner from Outeniqua, who also played SA U19 that year, was an outstanding schoolboy. A similar size to Ebersohn, he hasn’t progressed much past the U19 & 21 ranks.
Regarding the Grey 2007 backline, they were an outstanding unit, and it would be interesting to know what has become of them. I saw the bulk of them in that 2007 OFS CW side and they were on a different level.
The 2007 MHS backline produced some outstanding rugby that year as well although as a side they lacked the forward pack to have the balance that a side like Grey had. They still ended up ranked 4 or 5 that year living off scraps of possession. The back three was the best I have seen at a schoolboy level. Backline was;
15 – Pat Lambie – SA Schools 07-08, SA U20 now a Bok
14 – Mark Richards – AWeek – Sharks & Bok 7’s
13 – Xillan van Rooyen – Craven Week – focused on studies
12 – Murray de Bruyn – Craven Week – Lions U19 & 21
11 – Ruan Combrinck – CW 08 -SA U20 – now Lions
10 – Guy Cronje – CW captain 07 – Sharks & now Lions
9 – Ross Cronje – SA Schools B 07 – SA U20 – Sharks & now Lions
@rugbyfan: Glenwood’s best back ever played with Loest then for SA Schools, Dennis Baronet! What a player!
@BOG: Ye forgot that FH Cullinan ye still the best FH I have seen at schoolboy level.
Agree with you 2007 was a complete team.
Richter played wing for GCB I think in 76/77 was a tall boy was actually a SA Juinor hurdler of note was a real Jono Lomu for his time became a doctor as far as I can remember was a very intelligent kid at school.
Still think the most competitive SBR games I have seen were way back in 69 and 70 the two games between GCB and Queens if I remember QC won 69 9-5 and GB 70 9-6 these were two sides of the best SBR teams who slogged it out over two years and were easly SA best then.
@BOG: As far as I know Sakkie Muller did not carry on playing rugby after school, yes Cobus was seconds that year.
@badboy: Oh of course, one of the Peaches of 2007, Piet Van Zyl, has become a Springbok. Did Cobus Reinach not play seconds too, that year? Wonder what has hapenened to Sakkie Muller, the first team SH ?
@rugbyfan: I heard about Gary Loest and of course that little FH, called Cullinan. Thankfully I was abroad then and there was no internet. My brother-in-law, an old Queenian made sure that I got the news though, but only about 6 weeks later. I think that the Loest case has often been used where the Queens OBs have discussed examples where Queens have lost “offspring” to other schools.@badboy: What made the 2007 side so special, was that there were no weaknesses. You mention the backline. They were good, but the forwards as well and they could move the ball like wings. I actually thought that that team would produce several Springboks. Yet, its only Coenie O so far. Conversely, the 1981 and 87 (Hansie was nr 8 and captain) sides were good, but in my opinion, not in the same league as 2007. Yet, both those sides, produced 5 Springboks each. Goes to show.I cannot recall Richter, but then again I was out of circulation then( not prison though)
@BOG: Speaking to my dad the other day he mentioned a Richter who played for GCB I think 77/78 who was wing who was in a class of his own I don’t remember him maybe you do.
He also says that the GCB backline of 2007 must be if not one of best they have ever produced he went on to say that maybe they the best schoolboy backline there has been he believed the only backline at schoolboy level he had seen that might have been better was the Queens 84 one.
@BOG: The Ebershon twins I agree were some of the most taletant SBR players i have seen and have not forefilled that talent in senior rugby and in Roberts case no fault of his own.
Another person who must as a SBR player be one of the best I have ever seen is Gary Loest who played wing and centre and as far as I remember played SA schools for 3 years in 83/84/85 he,s presence on a rugby field was awesome. I think he,s son was Captain of Grey PE in 2012. I still remember those years were Grey Bloem had no answer to this Queens boy.
@badboy: He is still a very loyal supporter. I believe he has just enrolled his son as well. By the way, either your dad or your uncle, will remember the player I referred to above, Naas. Ask them their opinion of his qualities as a centre.@Grasshopper: Only around 24, so they still have time. I just dont know if Robert is featuring in HMs plans. I blame him to a certain extent for the way they are using Jan Serfontein. Honestly, if I were a young centre, I would not go near Pretoria, or Durban for that matter, under Plumtree.
@BOG: yeah, what I meant was they have not quite got to the same heights since. How old are they? They may still have time to come through.
@BOG: I think Queenian was most likely a JJS old boy.
@Grasshopper: Both Ebersohns being human beings, one can accept the dips in life. Many in SA, at this moment, believe that Robert Ebersohn, should be first choice at 12, and Im inclined to agree. Sias must overcome the mental side of things and I remain confident that he will. He certainly (and Robert) has not “lost” their talent.Jan Serfontein, given a full run and not used as a battering ram, will come through- no doubt.@Tjoppa: The Grey side of 2007 went unbeaten. In fact, the score against PRG, was 46-15 (I think)Strangely, their closest match was against DHS ,21-6, I think@beet: To me Beet, this is what has been missing in the Grey sides of the last 2-3 years- that support play which was so part of their pattern. But watch “Ebersohn twins” on Youtube and you will see it, especially the clips vs MC, Selborne and Affies. They were actually so good, that they played with the opposition- passing the ball to each other with an open try line. Yet, as a team and individuals, they were known for their absolute humility, a scarce human quality these days.After watching one of their matches, I remember saying to my wife- “Today, I watched the best schoolboy rugby side that I have ever seen”
@Grasshopper: Must confess maybe my eye for talent was not that good. My wife’s performance also dropped off after school. She also never reached the promises she display’d during school years. And she too was hot.
@beet: Unfortunately the memory is disappearing fast and I think will be very biased. But fact is never ever witness talent like the Ebersohns. That day they took a Affies team apart which was not bad at all. If my memory serves me right the only other game they lost was against Paul Roos that year.
@Tjoppa: I would love to know who your greatest ever SBR 15 is based on players you have watched during your lifetime. I think it would make for an interesting read.
I remember watching Michael Erhantraut playing for WP CW many years back. The Doc labelled him the best school rugby player he had ever seen, something which hasn’t immortalised ME but certainly ensured that his name is recorded in SA Rugby history books.
For me the best individual SBR performance I can ever remember witnessing was by Werner Swanepoel when he played out of position at flyhalf for the Grey Bloem ’91 team. He played at a very high tempo and ran circles around Kearsney on the Stott Field that day. The most fascinating aspect of the GCB play was the support runners. Ball carriers that got tackled confidently popped the ball over their shoulders and there were always 2-3 teammates to catch it and carry on the continuity.
@Tjoppa: Pity they ain’t so hot outside of school, Jan Serfontein getting ahead of them….
@meadows: At school boy level I will not be that fortunate to see such talent again. The Ebersohn brothers is and will be for years to come, be the best talent on display @ school boy level.
@meadows: Dennis Baronet in 1985 would be up there as one of the most devastating centres seen in KZN, made SA Schools…
@BOG: I thought Ebersohn (in fact both of them) was outstanding at CW 2007. The only better performance by a schoolboy centre I have seen was Danie Gerber who played SA Schools for three years (1975-77).
One difference for me was that Danie Gerber stood out even when playing in an average side. I do think that Robert Ebersohn and others benefited at CW from playing in a very good OFS (Grey) side that was a well drilled unit compared to most CW teams that have had a couple of warm up games and a training camp if they are lucky.
@Queenian: Only pre-school, but were then recruited for higher honours. But from what I hear it took some hard negotiations to draw them away from that metropolis.@CharlesZA: I could have made it easy for myself and simply put the whole 2007 down. I can almost guarantee you that there was not a school side in the world which would have beaten them. As far as Ebersohn is concerned, I merely expressed an opinion, but I have seen many school centres, including Danie Gerber, who was my bencmark- a pretty high one, if I may say so.
@BOG: How many of these kids started there schooling at JJS
Ok Jannie was a bad example but I know Flip and Andries x2 were great players at school. Never mentioned Reinach and van Zyl and we all know they didnt shine at school.
All I tried to say this side doesnt look as strong as I thought it would and it is your opinion that they are the best side out of these picked based on their play at school. It cant be fact as we will never know that for sure.
Also reckon saying Ebersohn was the best school bot centre ever is probably a stretch.
@CharlesZA: You are missing the point. You are judging the players who you mention AFTER they left school. Jannie, as far as I know, did not even play CW. He received his colours from GCB after he became a Bok. Players like Cobus Reinach, Piet Van Zyl never played CW and a player like Frans Steyn, a key player in the RWC, “did not make the side” He played at 10 in 2004 and was weighed up against Sias Ebersohn and Johan Goosen.
@meadows: I have to defend Bog here. On the original list he actually had Sias as the first choice with Johan Goosen second and Frans Steyn not making the cut. He gave me final discretion and it was the only player switch I made. I remember Sias from the 2007 CW tournament. He was excellent. I just felt and shared with Bog that Johan Goosen was one of those players that just about all who watched him play at school in 2010 tipped to wear Green and Gold one day. At the end of CW he was the easy first choice for SAS.
Agree with some here, expected a much stronger side. Very deep at some positions but in tight 5 not very strong. Maybe if this went back 15 years it would change alot as players in 28-33 are in their prime now. For this side it would then include Bissie, Jannie, Andries and Flip.
@meadows: As far as I can recall, the following made SA schools: 1,2,3,5,6,7,8,10,11,12,13,15,16,17,20
@Grasshopper: I think that you are loosing me. Not only in the same position, but the same number on the team sheet at CW. Eg, I selected Calits at 9 and Hlongwane at 20, the reserve . But, both Rademan and Luiters were first choice SHs at CW and both were better than Hlongwane.@Woltrui: Dries Swanepoel was 13 and JS 12. I can only recall one better school centre than Ebersohn and that was Naas Ferreira, probably unknown to most, who played for GCB a very log time ago
Just checked at Matt Stephens finished in 2001, my list is for 2004 to 2013 decade.
@kcob: Matt Stephens for sure, he was a beast at school, also Nico Breedt but they were late 90’s if my memory serves me correctly…
Nope sorry, my facts are wrong. Seems like he played 1st XV four years, captaining two years, KZN Academy one year, Craven week another but not SA Schools.
@Grasshopper: would you not have considered Mat Stevens at Prop; I think having played CW like 2003,2004,2005,2006? I think he played four times and SASchools twice aswell?
Loose forwards at 4 and 5? Old Grey Bloem tradition. Very good loose trio. IMHO Jan Serfontein should be at inside centre (although I think he played outside centre with Dries Swanepoel inside him in his matric year?). Not a lot of teams would compete with this Greystaat team.
@Grasshopper:
Based on CW performances I would have picked Shaun Malton the 2008 SA Schools hooker ahead of Dean Muir on performance at this level. I watched both of them at CW in 2007 and 2008 respectively and Malton made far more of an impression IMO.
Similarly Ross Cronje had an outstanding CW in 2007 missing out to Rudi Paige as SA Schools scrummie.
1 Dale Chadwick Westville 2007
2 Dean Muir Glenwood 2006,2007
3 Pat Cilliers Michaelhouse 2005
4 Daniel Du Preez Kearsney 2011,2012,2013
5 Michael Rhodes Michaelhouse 2005
6 Francois Kleinhans Glenwood 2008,2009
7 Brynand Stander Westville 2007,2008
8 Warren Whiteley (c.) Glenwood 2005
9 Cameron Wright Hilton 2012
10 Fred Zeilanga Glenwood 2009,2010
11 Emil Schwarz Hilton 2009,2010
12 Bradley Barritt Kearsney 2005
13 Tyler Fisher Westville 2011
14 Ruan Combrinck Michaelhouse 2008
15 Patrick Lambie Michaelhouse 2007,2008
16 Neil Oelofse Glenwood 2010,2011
17 Monde Hadebe Westville 2007,2008
18 Nick Schonert Maritzburg College 2008,2009
19 Jean-Luc Du Preez Kearsney 2011,2012,2013
20 Chris Micklewood Westville 2004,2005
21 Ross Cronje Michaelhouse 2007
22 Patrick Howard Michaelhouse 2009,2010
@BOG: I have done this exercise already a few weeks back and the team is on this site and they are in the positions the players played at school, I’ll dig it up…
@BOG: It is difficult not to let subsequent progress (or lack thereof) influence choices like this.
I am sure we can all think of outstanding Craven Week and SA schools players who have not made the step up either through lack of dedication, injury, size, or just having their weaknesses that they were able to carry at U18 exposed at the higher levels.
Your centre choices are tricky – I would probably have gone for William Small-Smith at 13 and Rademan at 9 but that is just based on hazy recollection.
It would be interesting to note how many of this side made the SA Schools side. Sias Ebersohn for example missed out to Marnitz Boshoff in 2007.
On the subject of Wilton Pietersen I have just seen that he will be playing for Wits in the varsity Cup next year.
@Grasshopper: I think you are fantasising. Keep in mind that their performance at school level only was taken into account. The loosies of 2004, was the best combination that I have ever seen at school level, anywhere in decades of watching SBR. If you select that KZN side, just remember that you have to select a player in the same position he was at CW. Why do you think that a player like Frans Steyn was omitted? This was the challenge. If I could “select” out of position, the side would look differently.
That is a very strong Free State side, but not as strong as I was expecting. I reckon my KZN Craven Week side for the same years would give them a very good run for their money…
@BOG: I remember being surprised (and I am understandably a big admirer of Pat Lambie) that Pietersen was not in the SA Schools side in 2007 after his Craven Week performance but learnt that although he was still U18 he had already left school (Outeniqua) and was at the UOFS and therefore ineligible for SA Schools.
He was the SA Craven Week Player of the Year at the 2007 SA rugby awards.
That was the last year U18 players who had left school were allowed to play CW. I looked up his record on the SARFU site;
He played Craven Week for SWD in 2005-2006 ie he was 16 in 2005.
Played SA Schools B in 2006
Played OFS Craven Week, Cheetahs U19 in the CC and SA U19 at WC in 2007.
SA U20 and OFS Currie Cup in 2008 at 19 yrs old.
Cheetahs Super rugby in 2009 at 20 yrs old
A sad loss of talent although I see that (according to Sarfu) he is playing club rugby in PE.
@meadows: I personally reckon, the best school side ever. You must remember that it was a “weakened” Grey side, but I do think that George Whitehead, who has since played for the Kings at 10, wing and 15, deserved selection for the 2007 FS side. I believe that Pietersens career was also ended by injury. Oh yes, for the record and the benefit of BHP, the score was 53-3 in the “final” of CW.
@BOG: The 2007 OFS CW side was one of the best I’ve seen. Both Ebersohns were outstanding. IMO Sias was more impressive than Goosen at that level.
The way that they ran riot against Nick Koster’s WP side that included Sadie and Poolman in midfield in the final game was something to see.
I would have included the 15 in that OFS side, Wilton Pietersen, as well (even though he is not an OG).
This was certainly a very subjective “selection”. And can emotion really be eliminated? As a unit, its not the strongest team.The wings would certainly have been different by bringing in one or two of the “discarded” centres and a place would have been found for Frans Steyn. It was a toss-up between Pieter Rademan and Danie Calitz at 9 , yet I was “forced” to “select” Hlongwane as reserve, because Rademan and Luiters were first choice SHs at CW. Also not easy to judge them purely as SCHOOL players and not what they achieved subsequently. Eg, Calitz (9) had a career ending injury after CW and never played rugby again. Even though I rate Johan Goosen extremely highly, after watching the video, “Ebersohn twins” I was again reminded what a talent Sias was at school. Even Robert said in an interview, that Sias was the one with a more natural flair. Robert had to work that much harder. Perhaps Sias may just have pipped JG at 10. As a critic of HM, Im pleased that I dont have to select a national squad, because I can imagine the response if I have 12 or more OG players in the squad.