The South African under-20 team moved one big step closer to a place in IRB Junior World Cup semi-finals with a vital 31-24 win against England in a Pool A match. This was mainly due to a very good start which saw the Baby Boks playing with good continuity and flair. They climbed to 21-0 lead after 30 minutes. England came back strongly though and asked a few questions of several backline defenders, amongst them highly rated Handre Pollard, who was once again playing out of position at inside centre. An exciting match become rather dull as the second half wore on, the direct result of pitch conditions which made the ball a lot more difficult to hold onto in contact than in the first half. No points were scored in the last 22-minutes. The win means that SA remain firmly in control of their destination. A win or even a draw against France in their final pool match, will be enough to see them automatically qualify for the semi-finals as pool winners.
Match breakdown:
|
MIN |
SCORE |
DETAILS |
|
2 |
7-0 |
Left wing Seabelo Senatla scores. It was the result of good build-up work. Quick recycling of the ball and cut-out passing to the wing who was in space. With still a bit of work to do Senatla mades easy work of getting past defenders. Robert du Preez Jnr converts. |
|
5 |
7-0 |
Du Preez misses a long range penalty |
|
7 |
10-0 |
Du Preez penalty. An England player was not supporting his body weight at the ruck. |
|
11 |
13-0 |
Du Preez penalty. SA has made a good start to the game. Their supporting of the tackled player at the ruck is bang on. England’s disciple at the ruck is poor at this stage. |
|
14 |
13-0 |
England’s poor disciple continues as they concede a kickable penalty this time for being in front of the kicker. Du Preez however misses the easy shot. |
|
16 |
16-0 |
Du Preez lands the penalty given at the ruck. This time the referee issues England with a formal warning. |
|
18 |
16-0 |
SA under pressure at scrum-time concedes a penalty for collapsing the scrum but Slade, the England kicker misses the shot quite badly. The SA pack was definitely on the backfoot at scrumtime throughout the game and conceded another penalty later on but their disadvantage in this department was not significant. |
|
25 |
16-0 |
Two really good breaks by England in quick succession. After applying good pressure onto a rushed SA attack, England retrieve a grounded ball near their own 22m and launch a counter-attack which forces Jacques du Toit to make a good cover tackle. However Irne Herbst misses a tackle on England scrumhalf Alex Day in the next phase. A knock on ends this very promising attack but it proves to be a turning point in the match. |
|
29 |
16-0 |
Handre Pollard misses an ambitious drop-goal. |
|
30 |
21-0 |
Senatla try. England have a blindside one-man overlap but instead of going through the hands, flank Matt Hankin flings a wildish long pass that is intercepted by Senatla. He runs in to score need the left corner. Du Preez misses the conversion. |
|
34 |
21-7 |
Outside centre Harry Sloane scores a try for England. The damage is done by Sam Hill who runs a good line from deep. He dissects the SA centres of Pollard and replacement Dries Swanepoel and feeds inside to Sloane. Sloane uses his momentum to help him get over after the tackle. Henry Slade converts. |
|
Halftime |
21-7 |
|
|
42 |
21-14 |
Try by England lock Elliot Stooke. A good break by no.8 Jack Clifford. He feeds to his wing Ben Howard who advances play before being stopped. The ball is recycled is spread wide where the try is scored in the left corner. Slade succeeds with the difficult kick. |
|
44 |
28-14 |
One of the stand-outs for the Baby Boks, Jacques du Plessis makes his try look easy. Fullback Cheslin Kolbe who also proved to be one of the best players on the pitch charged down a kick. SA regathered the ball and Pollard plus Swanepoel combined well to carry the ball over the advantage line. From a series of rucks and well recycled ball, SA varies their attack until they create a 2 on 2 on the blindside but a weak attempted tackle by lock Dominic Barrow sees du Plessis cross the line with relative comfort. Du Preez converts. |
|
47 |
28-17 |
Kolbe makes his second great last line tackle of the match. SA then turns over the ball near their own 22m and Kolbe sparks an attack which sees him beat a man before putting Senatla away on the inside. The try is however disallowed after a consultation with the assistant ref brings to the ref’s attention a high tackle by Irne Herbst, for which SA gets penalised and Slade kicks over. |
|
50 |
28-17 |
SA gets pinged for holding the ball on the ground and 10m gets added when they don’t retreat the necessary distance from the quick tap by England. Slade misses the long range kick at goal. |
|
53 |
28-17 |
After England flank Ross Moriarty leaves his feet at the ruck, SA don’t attempt the long shot at goal going for a lineout instead however a little later in this passage of attack, du Preez has a drop goal attempt charged down. |
|
55 |
31-17 |
SA concludes their scoring for the game with 25-minutes to go when Barrow gets penalised for not rolling away. Du Preez is again responsible for the points. |
|
58 |
31-24 |
England gets back into the game with yet another try in the left corner. This time it’s substitute Henry Purdy that scores. It all starts from a badly controlled ball which comes out the back of an SA ruck and gets pounced on by England. They then go through a few phases of bashing rugby near the SA tryline before looking for width and finding space out on the wing. Slade converts from a difficult angle. |
|
Conditions are not great and basic handling seems to deteriorate quite badly in the last quarter. Handling errors end the prospects of a flowing game and SA also appears to be fresh out of ideas on how to now breach the England defence. |
||
|
72 |
31-24 |
Both Herbst and replacement lock Tom Price get yellow carded after a scuffle in which neither of them manages to really do anything. Even the term “handbags” seems a little far-fetched to describe their actions. |
|
Fulltime |
31-24 |
The game ends without much continuity but had its memorable moments and going by the Baby Bokke reactions after the final whistle, it was certainly a very valuable win. England gets an all-important bonus point which may come in handy in their attempts to make the semi-finals. Once they beat the USA they will get to 10 points with a healthy try count and points difference. |
Dawie moet vir Percy Williams van die Lions kans gee saam met Pollard. Altwee is baie onvoorspelbaar en sal ‘n dodelike kombinasie wees. Ek dink hy het ook die beste pass van die skrumskakels en kry sy backline vinniger weg as die ander twee.Baie goeie verdediger ook
I see there have been changes for the next U20 game tomorrow. Well done to Sti. Hope he has a great game playing alongside Marne in the front row. Will also be interesting to see how Pollard goes at 10. I really rated this guy from the time I saw him at KERF last year.
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Pollard-shifts-back-to-flyhalf-20130612
@Koos Roos: Julle Kapenaars is darem fyngevoelig en dan nog boonop selektief ook. Ek het niks teen J de V nie- hy speel mos vir WP en hoe swakker, hoe beter. Wat ek gese het was in reaksie op Ploeg se kommentaar oor Meyer Bosman.
@Koos Roos: Eksteen het geteken lank uitsluitsel oor Pollard verkry is.
@Ludz: Nee Lutz, sover ek dit het, het Eksteen eers ter sprake gekom met die Pollard storie oor waneer Pollard geteken sou gewees het deur die Bulle.
@BOG: Bog, stadig met die voggies as jy rugby kyk. Die enigste kieries wat ek nog ooit op ‘n SA rugbyveld gesien het was daai toordokter/reendanser/gelukbringer, afkomstig van ‘n Vrystaat myn vermoedelik, so ‘n paar jaar terug. Kortom los vir Jean uit!
@beet: I agree with some of your points. However ,If the other youngsters are good enough, they will make it at the other franchises, that has been proven over the years. The other option is for Saru to run the show with contracts.
@beet: The best flyhalf currently at the Bulls is a guy called Willie du Plessis. But no contract so he is only deemed good enough to play TUKS 1. No need to look further than him to replace Morne.
@BOG: If you look at the Pimps in charge today it is easy to see that no rugby knowledge is necessary only attitude.
@Muzi: Maybe Chilli must accept with Bismark and that other one of the States there is no place for him in Springbok rugby. He never was one of the best in the country. And before everybody jump up and down he is a wonderful person but according to me just not good enough.
@Woltrui: You guys are broke boet accept it!
Jy gaan weer op loop met n ding- net soos n fox terrier wat blaf en tekere gaan en wanneer die ander hond terugbyt, staan hy agter sy baas se bene. Ek het nie die saak ge-opper nie. Ek het bloot by ploeg- n WP ondersteuner- aangesluit met sy kommentaar en n bietjie uitgebrei daarop sodat die wie nie vertroud is met die gesukkel vd WP, dit ook kan verstaan. Dan het WP n nuwe kabinet gekry? Seker n baie kleiner een om plek te bespaar. En ontspan, ek ken die trauma as WP ondersteuner en dit nog boonop in n era toe hulle darem nou en dan n bekertjie gewen het. In n tydperk toe 43 spelers uit 60 ( Senior en O 20) OGs was, insluitend al 4 kapteins
@BOG: Asof die Vrystaat nogal so oorvloed van bekers het!..bwahahaha…wat is dit nou weer?..4 CC bekers in meer as 100 jaar se rugby?…Shame man! ..en julle kan nie eers die prof era daarvoor blameer nie want toe die mense nog vir die liefde van die game gespeel het was niemand lief genoeg om in die OVS te speel nie dit is hoekom hulle net EEN ou bekertjie in 1976 kon wen!…..Sover ek weet staan daar nog steeds n Currie Beker en n 0/19 Currie beker in ons kas hier op Nuweland…Wat staan daar in Bloem?…Pokkol!…
@BoishaaiPa: would also love to hear the story, I honestly don’t think Orrie has the physical presence to make it at senior level in rugby
@Ploegskaar: Moenie so fyngevoelig wees oor die gebrek aan bekers in die Kaap nie. Ek het bloot verder motiveer op wat jy reeds gese het. Daardie ongebruikte eike trofeekabinet op Nuweland wat ek gekoop het en opgeskaaf het, was darem in sy doodsnikke bruikbaar vir n paar snoeke wat ek gerook het.@Muzi: You paid him an arm and a leg to stay? The way he is playing, one would think that you TOOK an arm and a leg from him !
@Muzi: @Ploegskaar: They did not miss him or Orrie…email me at BoishaaiPa@mweb.co.za if you want to hear the real story!
@beet: I hear former Paul Roos flyhalf/fullback Jason Worral will probably run at 10 for WP u19 this year.
It would be interesting to know whether Eksteen and Meiring were given offers as u16s like most of the group or only after eye catching performances in 2012
The flyhalf pecking order looks set to be something like this, Fouche as 1st choice 10 and Pollard as back up, 3rd in line Jantjies for the senior Currie Cup side.
U21s, 1st choice will be Tony Jantjies and 2nd choice Franna Tredoux and 3rd in line they have Burger Odendaal.
U19s, 1st choice will be Kobus Marais, with JP Smith and Duncan Matthews as options while Josh Stander is still injured. Depending on how he performs after his injury, Josh should be 1st choice on return
@Muzi: In a way I’m not disappointed that Warner left WP. I feel this is the way the system should work. WP have a brill scrummy in Jean Nel. It’s pointless for Warner to be on the bench if he is good enough to start at another Union. A few years ago Duncan Campbell of Westville fame did the exact same thing. He saw the door closing on him at the WPRI and moved to the Lions where he helped them capture the u19 trophy a couple of years back. I would like to see more players from the Bulls do likewise. From day 1 we have talked about the overcrowded lock position in Pretoria. Having Dennis Visser, Irne Herbst, Phillip du Preez and Jannes Kirsten there was just too much + it turned out that Marvin Orie was in the same age-group and Jacques du Plessis can easily slot in at lock as well. Stupid and not good for SA rugby. These players should be playing for opposite sides and bringing the best out of each other on the competitive field of play
@Woltrui: From what I understand Eksteen was made an offer by the Bulls along with the Affies no.8 Meiring but both preferred to go to WP. It was a good call under the circumstances and even better for SA rugby at junior level is that once Pieter Jordaan also at the WPRI for a while realised that he was going to be second fiddle to Eksteen, he upped and left. So we have a nice even spread of talented flyhalves now, considering that Jaco vd Walt technically also moved RU. Well we would have had ane even better spread. The day after Jordaan left, Eksteen was ruled out for the season. So as it stands it’s Jordaan (FS), vd Walt (Lions), JL du Plessis (Sharks) and Josh Stander or Kobus Marais (Bulls). Stander is injured for now I think. Pollard will probably play at a higher level due to fast-tracking. If he does not, it is evidence of the overstocking at the Bulls.
@Ploegskaar: That tygerberg side was a mean machine in 2011…Sass,Geduld,Warner and Jody were brilliant
may teams feared playing them especially at sevens.
@BOG:
Hougaard will always be WP boytjie at heart we paid an arm and a leg just to keep him from leaving last year…..damn we should have poached Van Zyl 
@BOG: Jy sal begrip hê, daardie dekades van ’76 tot ’05 moes seker darem julle Blikore se geduld getoets het.
@Muzi: Is Hougaard spearheading recruitment? Rugby? I would have thought that some kind of knowledge about rugby would be necessary to do that?
@Muzi: Same way they missed Orie, bud. Unfortunately guys at the “smaller” schools in the WP and Boland still struggle for recognition. An absolute gold mine in the northern suburbs on any given Saturday, if you have the time and the will. At least they hung on to Jodie Reynecke, tough as nails and was an absolute monster with ball in hand at school.
At least I can agree with something that Ploegskaar has said.If they were to carry a rugby trophy through the streets of Cape Town, the youngsters (under 40) would think its a dead alien.@Woltrui: You simply dont have the people to put a stop to the rot. Dit sit nie in hulle broeke nie. For years they have been fervently looking for No 1 Shit Street and they have now hit the jackpot- at Loftus. Maar laat ons maar saam gesels. Hoe onsinnig ookal, dit dien as goeie afleiding, en dikwels vermaak, al se ons gesonde verstand vir ons dat dit nooit sal realiseer nie.
@Woltrui:
…….Chilliboy was gatvol with Meyer he wasn’t offered a bok contract….Juandre is part of the mercenary clan spearheaded by the one and only Francois Hougaard.
Kirchner leaving is a blessing in disguise
Steggies,Pierre and Flip the only loyal servants at loftus…Venter is out of sorts…. :roll:…….i hope those two kloffies fatties have signed for the Bulls.
Greyling and Werner are walking penalties ……enough said.
@Muzi: barring injury, I think he should make that squad
@Ludz:
Perhaps he’s a sure bet to make the 2014 SA Under 20 squad.
@Muzi: Muzi U are spot on, as usual. Where is our current crop of senior players that must take us forward and must form the backbone of the team?? Spies, Steggies, Flip, Potgieter. That’s about it. How long does it take to gel a number 2 with his locks to be world class? We don’t have money to keep Chilliboy in Pretoria! Don’t know if we must cry or laugh. Hopefully a guy like Victor will put his foot down and stop the rot.
@Ploegskaar: Ploeg if the Bulls don’t win this years Super Cup a generation of Pretoria boys is also not going to experience the thrill of winning a trophy. We are going to be building a new team for the next ten years. Ons gaan die bouers van die toring van babel na vulletjies laat lyk
@Muzi: JP Smith, am keen to see how he goes, expecting big things from that young lad
@Ploegskaar:
….Poerie van Rooyen not far behind..Lohan is fat :mrgreen:…..that JP Smith is not bad at all.
Hmmm talking about scrumhalves how on earth did WP let Andre Warner go??
That lad from tygeberg was one of the the best schoolboy 9’s in 2011 damn he’s brilliant at sevens…… I think he’s the best under 20 junior scrumhalf at loftus
@Woltrui:
Lions Jaco van der Walt asked to be released from his Bulls contract after finding out about the Bulls signing Pollard….Bulls signed Kloffies Kobus Marais as the third flyhalf….they’ve been after young Ernst Stapelberg since grant khomo week,
@Woltrui: Ryno Eksteen was evidence that Xander and Werner can miss it at times, I really like Eksteen and think he has massive potential, my 2nd favourite schoolboy flyhalf after Josh Stander last year. I don’t understand how they could’ve missed him though 8-O. I hear he’s highly rated in the Cape though, pity he’s out for the rest of the season with an injury.
@Woltrui:
These days the Bulls offer contracts to players like Francois Hougaard who are on high salaries even though they’ve been underperforming for the past couple of years.
Vermaak has been playing superb rugby yet we can only offer him peanuts talk about a lack of respect.
Some of our home grown and loyal players were discarded by Meyer at the end of 2010…remember the likes of Corne Fourie, JC Roos Marnus Schoeman,Francois Brummer,Stefan Watermeyer,Van Velze memebers of that large group of the Bulls 2008 and 2007 craven week teams identified by Ian Schwartz.
Without a doubt many of them struggled to make it at loftus but the manner in which they were shown the door leaves a lot to be desired….others were not even given extended game time in senior rugby.
The past senior crop of Bulls players like Danie Rossouw, Matfield, Du Preez, Bakkies were very instrumental in the long term success achieved by the Bulls.
We managed to keep them at loftus for several years that’s why we were able to build quality in depth and provide continuity.
That’s my issue with the new generation of Bulls elite players a lot of them are bunch of mercenaries all they want is more money.
@Woltrui: Net ‘n regstelling, en dis pynlik om te erken, maar hier is ‘n hele generasie jong latte in die Kaap wat nooit die WP ‘n beker sien wen het nie en met die sukses van die Bulle en Chaarks eerder die spanne ondersteun. As ‘n laatie was dit ‘n gegewe dat jy die WP ondersteun het as jy hier grootgeword het, basies die helde van die ’60’s en 70’s saam met jou moedersmelk ingekry, maar helaas is daar selfs deesdae Nivara’s met bulknolle in die verkeer en dis Kapenaars, ek sal weet, hulle oë sit nie langs die kop nie!
@bhkgpa: BHKGPa I doubt if this strategy of the Bulls brought us success. It is open to debate. Our success came on the back of a good coach(Meyer) with a strong foundation of senior players(Matfield/Bakkies Botha/Gary Botha/Fourie Du Preez/Rayno Gerber/Wynand Claasen/Pierre Spies). One or two exceptional talented youngsters(Derrik Hougaard/Morne Steyn). When last did the Bulls win the Currie Cup? 4 or 5 years ago? Province and the Sharks were the up and coming franchises last year.@beet: Beet it will do the Bulls good to cut that budget of 15mil in half. Use the 7 and half left to insure players like Chilliboy, Wynand, Juandre etc stay at the Bulls. Identify top notch youngsters like Pollard and bring those kids in. Not every Tom Dick and Harry. Last year the Bulls contracted Pollard, Van der Walt and and Stander as flyhalfs. When Craven Week came about Pollard was carrying a injury. The best flyhalf was Eksteen. Playing Rugby from grade 8 at Affies, not 500m from the Blue Bulls Offices. The idiots were to busy recruiting in WP and Eastern Cape to notice the exceptional talent in their own back yard. This is kids growing up loving the Bulls. Pierre Spies ought to go and talk to some of those recruiters about character and loyalty. Suppose next year we would again not “have the money” to keep the stars. Build again from scratch.
Tjoppa sometimes surprises me with unexpected wisdom, and that at the ungodly hour of 21:21. I have been saying for the last few years that we are looking into an economic abyss and that rugby will certainly not escape it. That is realty, not “doomsday propheteering” And we are now seeing the consequences of decades of reckless spending. The masses, internationally, have been duped into believing that the availability of credit (debt) is equal to prosperity, and now we have mountains of it (debt) In the past, the “solution” was simply to create more debt, but now, we have reached saturation. In 2018, the USA will require two-thirds of its current budget, JUST TO SERVICE ITS DEBT. And we, in SA will not escape the consequences. We are rapidly following the trend and if our currency collapses, as I believe it will, our international debt burden will escalate exponentially .It is said that if they sneeze in the US, the rest of the world has the flu. God help us if they, the US gets the flu. And please, dont expect too much from China. The only way they are going to avoid their bubble from popping, is war, and that certainly wont help. Am I talking politics or economics or about the social challenges facing us? Yes, but only insofar as it will impact sport, in our case, professional rugby. And what we are seeing, are just the first signs. We need to square up to the challenges, however unpleasant they may be. In a country where the unemployment queue is getting longer by the day and just the children in need of care, are increasing by 25000 PER MONTH, paying men to kick and chase an oval ball, known to us as rugby, is not going to be a priority
@Woltrui: That is the only player you will be able to afford if the trend continue at BB’s.
@beet: That millions is dwindling very fast. Tuks paid BB this year 7.8million rand for winning Varsity Cup. Next year if my info is correct only R2 million available and Tuks is cutting back on own bursaries. Maybe they realized they are an educational institution. Tuks 1 players planning mass exodus as other clubs are paying up to R 2000 per game. Game fees from 2011 still outstanding at Tuks and if players enquire they are told they get free clothes and gym sessions they must shut up or leave. Saw several TUKS1 players from the past popping up at other clubs. Maybe this is the reason for the sudden improvement in the Carlton Cup of clubs. No longer just Tuks and Police.
@bhkgpa: Look it’s a great position to be in if you have the dough to support it. I heard the Bulls have a R15m per annum junior rugby budget. That is far in excess of what rivals have. This accumulation of talent is not entirely the fault of the Bulls, it’s up to the other RU’s to match their offers to juniors now and wrestle some of the talent depth away from them.
For now the 2 concern surrounding the Bulls getting the cream of the crop and then the rest of the crop as well remains:
1) what happens to the overall quality of SA rugby when the 2nd best players are not playing for the opposition and promoting a strength vs strength on-field contest but rather watching the game from the stands coz they can’t make the Bulls junior team starting line-up
2) what happens to these same juniors who are/were good enough to start every junior rugby game at a different RU but were not 1st choice players at the Bulls and so have ended up on the garbage heap once they are no longer required in Pretoria. Not many of them have the opportunity to just walk into a contract at another Union. They either have to start from scratch or quit. I fully realise that senior rugby is designed for the best of the best with the rest dropping out after u21. But we are yet to find out what happens in the seniors when some of the best juniors get cut off at u21 level. The overall quality of the senior rugby system goes down and very soon SA rugby will not be as strong as it is now.
@Muzi: sorry it is the way to go if you want to be the best franchise in SA. They are getting the cream of youngsters and after 2 years of trials at the blue bulls, the bulls keep the best. There are no other way to do it if you wants to be the best. Heineke started it years ago and how many titles did the bulls won? Much more than any other region. I can promise you that the bulls financial bottom line also look much better than the other regions.
@pongola: Almost like J de Villiers? I saw that a few of his team mates tripped over his walking stick on Saturday.
@Muzi: Muzi what does it help if we(Bulls) are sucsesfull at U/21 level and win f#k@l else. The senior team might be sucsesfull this year. Next year. Rebuilt again because we can’t keep the senior players. It is bullshit. I would love to know how much money is spend on juniors who never make it to the seniors. I agree one hundred persent with you.
Other thing that really upset me about the Bb recruiters. Except for 2012 they shunted the Pretoria home grown talent. We are not fools or idiots. I saw a lot of Pretoria kids which were just as good or better than players from other provinces. They would then recruit the player from the other province. Maybe Xander, as an old Klofie, is just bias against Affies kids.
I watched Pierre Spies talk on TV regarding players that is leaving the franchise. He made the remark that everything should not be about money. That is the type of player we need at the Bulls. Home grown and loyal to the point of their toes to the Bulls cause.
@pongola: Bosman, the lovechild of Strauli and Plum, still has many seasons left in the tank
That’s why!
why would the sharks let a young centre go not much depth there.
@Muzi: Amen to that, only guy that could spot TJ Goddard’s talent for instance, best scrummy IMO in the WP. The days of scouts will be numbered soon anyway, there are many like myself that will spot and promote players gratis and verniet, guys that watch many teams and many players every season, guys that want the real talent to be recognized and to get an opportunity. Most of the bloggers on here would be a good reference on players and talent, suggest they contact Beet for details.
@beet: I see that Piet Lindeque is returning to Bloem for an overhall or refurbishment. Along with Pieter Jordaan. Lets now see what happens to them in the FS
2012- u/19 lost final 19-22 u/21 won final 22-13
2011- u/19 lost final 20-19 u/21 won final 43-30
not too bad. all can’t be blamed on the recruitment, a lot of schoolboys don’t step up to the tougher rugby. countless that got every chance imaginable because they were sa schools and don’t make it.
@Muzi: I’ve said this to Xander as well. He might be very good at his job but he might also be the biggest enemy of SA rugby the way he goes about trying to horde all the best talent for just one union.
Anyway these things have a way of straightening themselves out. I never imagined financial problems but so be it.
To be honest I’d like to see the talent spread around and more opportunities for school leavers to play at a high level. This might mean more u19 teams in Gauteng and W/Cape but still think it’s better than losing potentially great players that are late developers or get gatvol cos of the lack of opportunities.
Guys like the Killian bros are not well liked but they have proved it in 2 different regions now. We have untapped resources that would otherwise be lost to rugby if it wasn’t for their efforts.
@Muzi: Corn Flakes? If they are lucky, more likely a vegetarian breakfast with distilled water. And the Cheetah scout does not have to travel much, does he? Just occasionally looking for replacements, enticed awayEconomic realities will soon start to impact severely, including the BBs.@BoishaaiPa: Get a good nights rest and try again tomorrow. Coenie went backwards for the first two scrums and from then, he was firm. There were a few more than just two scrums. And that was against one of the best scrummagers in the world. In fact, they were the only players in the side who were really tested. The rest, are in a bit of a fools paradise.
It’s the reason why I have so much respect for Cheetahs scout Andre Tredoux he knows how to identify talent with a limited budget.
@Tjoppa: @Slam:
Who knows many more like Jacques du Plessis could follow CJ Stander?!?
The Bulls strategy to offer contracts to most of the top SA schools players in the past couple of seasons in key positions has back fired big time……..Xander is inexperienced when it comes to sorting out contractual disputes.
IMHO we really miss our old High-performance manager Ian Schwartz that bloke knew how to sort out this mess.
I think started with Meyer when he did some recruitment work with Xander it looks like some of players are fed up with player management perhaps because of broken promises?!?!
These days competition is very tough young players need game time one can’t simply offer contracts to a lot of quality players who could be playing at other unions so that they can fight for one position.
This is my issue with the Bulls why offer top 30+ players junior contracts if some of them will not even run out at loftus A field.
It hurts when one has to admit this but sadly we’re killing the some players rugby careers….i wonder what really happened with Monnas star flank JP Le Granje??
To make matters worse i have watched players like Jacques Taylor, Ruwellyn Isbell,Dean Moolman,Phillip du Preez e.tc at school level identifying the talent they possess then 1 year later most of them are surplus to requirements?!?!
Even for the past 3 years the Bulls under 19’s have failed to win the currie cup comp with so much depth in quality.
Sorry Bulls but aggressive player recruitment is not the way to go…..
@Slam: They do not know the meaning of a budget. Wait till end of August when the younger guys start asking for hefty increases. The last of the big ones leaving is not published yet. Loftus might be on sale also.
@Muzi: then you can’t afford the flight to the WC Muzi and may have to cut back on relocating the 30 players for the Garsies and Centurion 1st team in 2014!
@Tjoppa:
That’s how we roll……don’t forget about the that slick puma kit no wonder senior players are getting pay cuts……baby bulletjies are having the time of their lives….talk about overspending with our budget in the junior teams. 
@Muzi: And he will get the Tata, black with chrome mags.
@Slam: Hanro is a damn good player…..forget about petrol costs we will just book him a flight to loftus..have lunch with him at trademarx…..offer him a sweet deal he can’t refuse remember we’re sponsored by samnsung
so the lad will return home with the new galaxy S4 phone.. 
@Slam:
@BoishaaiPa: No worries sir…that Maties full back will be offered Zane Kirchner’s salary.
@Slam: Good young player, and quite a bit of gas as well. With a bit of height and weight perhaps still to come, he would make a good 5 lock IMO.
@BOG:
with the vleis. 
Perhaps that’s the problem with rugby players from english medium schools in Johannesburg parents feed them Corn Flakes and Rice Krispies that’s why they all look so tiny these days.
Mabuza could add the famous traditional Southern African non-alcoholic drink called Mageu
@Ploegskaar: We’re being picked up by the Bulls on their way down to the Boland since they were going anyway to fetch Wiaan Liebenberg’s boet, Hanro. Petrol costs can be shared
@Slam: No honour amongst thieves, as they say
You guys coming to fetch his jong boet down here as well?
@Muzi:
@BOG: Is that the same Coenie who went backwards most of the time he was on the Park Saturday?…
@Muzi: I know a placekicker in Maties Koshuis rugby that only missed one kick so far the whole season!…a Fullback! He regularly slots 3 to 4 kicks per game…He is a definate 90%’ter as pressure in that rugby is very high with the opposition supporters actually standing right next to you and screaming in your ears while you attempt the shot at goal!..But he will never play for the Bulls!…
@Muzi: keep your dirty smurf like hands off Pieter Steph du Toit! you bully boys don’t need him.
You guys are like the spoilt kid at Christmas who gets more presents than anyone else but when he sees the kid next to him with something he doesn’t have he immediately wants that!
@Muzi: Call me a lier for ten metres. As I said, I agree with him moving to hooker, but even the hookers now seem to be increasing in size- width if not height. So, if he wants to advance, he will have to get stuck into the pap and vleis. Tell him to ask Coenie for his diet.
@Ploegskaar: Jan Enslin was deadly with the boot at Grey High PE…….he’s another useful place kicker at the Bulls…we’re spoilt for choice at loftus.
@Ploegskaar:
wow he’s an asset the Bulls can’t lose then 
very suprised Beerwinkel didn’t take over the kicking duties from Pollard and Du Preez 
these days Xander and Werner will sign just about any player from any position than kick. 
@Muzi: He was one of the top point scorers in the WC in 2011 if I remember correctly, which included conversions and penalties
Maybe that’s why the Bulls signed him in the first place 
@BOG: Lol….in fact it was more like a 60 metre dash
unfortunately it wasn’t enough to impress the Bulls scouts:mrgreen: due to his lack of height Mabuza was advised to move to hooker.
the lad is a lions player now.
I think he was a bit gatvol
@Ploegskaar: What do you mean Beerwinkel for place kicking?!?!…..he’s like Brock Harris
……i actually thought he did well at centre against england. 
@Muzi: What has happened to Mabuza. The 50 meter dash not enough to take him further?
@Slam:Bulls only have two good junior locks in Orie and Willemse Juandre Kruger is a massive loss….that’s why the Bulls are after Pieter-Steph du Toit hell we can even add hooker Kyle Cooper to our shopping list.
@beet: No……i only said he was not bad as a ball carrier :mrgreen:….can you blame me for waxing lyrical about Beerwinkel huh?
Bulls junior props can’t scrum at all…. have you seen our Super Rugby fatties…vodacom cup level at best. 
@oxry: Klink my almal behalwe die beseerde 2 was daar, baie goeie uitslag en gaan my kuier op Riversdal in Augustus pynlik maak! Verras julle o/16’s het verloor, maar julle gaan steeds ‘n lekker groep vir die volgende 2 jaar hê.
Wat gaan met die Engelse skole aan? Hoor daar was ‘n rooikaart tussen Rondeb en Bishopps.
Ploegskaar, wat ‘n jammerte, die eerste keer dat ek nie ‘n game bywoon nie agv motor probleme, gaffel die bulle amper vir PGim. Ek wil dit uit die perd se bek hoor, het al PGim se CW spelers gespeel?
@Tjoppa: Die meerderheid BH ouers wat ek ontmoet het tot op hede is darem altyd ordentlik en beskeie, het self gedink BH is 15+ punte beter as BL hierdie jaar, maar bly steeds ‘n verloor en die voortduur van die maer jare. Hoop maar ons kan volgende jaar iets op die Plaas uitrig. Jy sal maar met Tian vroeër eerder as later moet praat, weet nie of hy al enige besluite oor sy toekoms geneem het nie, maar nou-nou trek hy Australië toe om by sy held Quade te gaan kersopsteek.
@BoishaaiPa: Nee jong, as ek daar was sou ek kom hallo sê het, maar in die Bellville vasgesit, dalk ook maar beter…. Vier drieë teen een is vir my baie oortuigend en Boland se drie laat in die 2de helfte, as ek twitter reg verstaan het. Hopelik eindig die manne sterk met Kaapse skole week en ‘n paar games na die vakansie. Moet sê hierdie is dalk nie Boland se sterkste groep die afgelope paar jaar nie, maar hulle het meet guts as baie van hulle voorgangers!
@beet: Agreed, up north there is no place to carry a slow kortgat in the loosies, I think Davis a must on the side with Du Plessis at 8, as the line-outs also seem iffy, but maybe that’s down to the throwers. With regards to the props, if you want to pick Beerwinkel, at least use him for his placekicking, definitely not for scrumming and lifting. In my opinion there were better, albeit younger, guys available for this squad, apart from boys like Marx and Kirsten that were not picked.
The Problem? In a nutshell, Skill, skill and skill!! Playing rugby, is very much like piloting an aircraft. In perfect conditions, even a monkey (or a pig) can fly. But lets cut out an engine or two, add a few thunder clowds, rain, hail and ligtning, up- and down draughts, and a “little” more is required of the pilot. Occasional flashyness is very often confused with skill and in adverse conditions, the lack of it, will always be exposed. The higher we go in the hierarchy of the game, the more obvious the shortcomings will be. A few players, particularly among the tight five, were “overlooked” for reasons other than rugby, and yesterday, it showed for all to see. Their only hope is that Theron makes an urgent call to SA for a prop or two .Just maybe, they can save the day.
Pollard must be moved to No 10 they going to kill a great talent by playing him out of position, No 8 is also a big problem always believed that the Sharks boy Meyer was the best for this position.
@Ploegskaar: Was jy dan nie daar nie?..Ek het nogal gedink jy sal na die tyd n kouetjie daar in die klubhuis kom nuttig….Ek het die hele game daar uit die hoek van “my losie” dopgehou saam met vorige Landbou coach Jonty Carstens en sy broer Deon. Ek sal nie se die telling vlei Boland nie. Hulle het laaste 10 minute van 1ste helfte en 1ste 15 van 2de helfte oorhand gehad, maar kon dit nie regtig omskep in punte nie. HJS se verdediging op die dag was baie goed….ek dink Boland het verkeerde gameplan teen HJS gespeel. Buhr was glad nie in die game nie en daai groot 12 senter is omtrent nooit effektief gebruik nie. Nel het die bal heeltyd lug gegee en in Dante se keelgat afgeskop…wat mens nie eintlik moet doen nie..daai klein maergat het vir Boland baie kopsere besorg toe hy aan die hol gaan!
@Ploegskaar: Het Saterdag met van die manne gepraat en noem die seun se waar daar ook al oor 10’s gepraat het. Hopelik sal ek met hom kan gesels so oor 3 weke as ek kom kuier. Rate hom baie.
Wat die telling aanbetref wel hoor weer die manne van Boishaai meen dit was miskien ‘n ware beeld van game gewees. Maar ja ek dink ek kuier by die ordentelikes van daardie skool.
@beet: what,tuned in late,did not see the subs but took it for granted,against the USA he was all over the place
@Ploegskaar: He is currently in die WP Vodacom squad. He was injured at the start of the year, was still part of the squad, but did not play in the 3 warm up games, but was picked to go to Argentina..he started in 1st game and played in all the others. Somehow Dawie dropped him and Marx on return for the final sqaud and picked Willemse out of the blue…Dont know what happend there!
@Tjoppa: Jou 10 het weer Saterdag ‘n mooi droppie deur die pale gesit en Dante het ‘n goeie game gehad, maar hoor die telling vlei Boland ‘n bietjie. Miskien kan BoishaaiPa vir ons so bietjie terugvoer gee?
@Ploegskaar: Du Plessis was actually a no.8 at Ermelo. Not sure why he has not been used there. His style is ideally suited to conditions.
@QC86: Kwagga wasn’t even on the bench tho
. Aidon Davis was the loosie reserve
@Tjoppa: He was u19 last year at Wynberg. This is Notshe’s last season of u20 eligibility. He was also ignored at WP u19 level as well. Selectors preferred Seb Ferreira (also still at school then), partly because of the latter’s versatility.
@BoishaaiPa: Agreed, would play Davis at 7 and move du Plessis to 8, suppose Theron will have to work with what he has now. BTW, where’s that Kirsten boy that you always punt, was not impressed with either hookers thus far to be honest.
@BoishaaiPa: spot on,i was shouting at the TV in the second half to get Kwagga on the field.
@Ploegskaar: Only 19 this year.
@Ploegskaar: He was available but was never really in Dawie’s plans…I will rather play Du Plessis at 8 and bring in a more versatile player like Kwagga Smit or Aidan Davis to play 7…They are ball players and can actually link with the backs as well.
@Slam: True about the u18s. Unfortunately we did not get to see that game to assess what happened up front.
WRT Ruan Botha, to suggest he is in the power output range of Paul Willemse is stretching it. Ruan might go further in rugby than Paul but at u20 level the latter definitely brought the physical element that makes opponents remember they were in a game against a Bok team.
@Ploegskaar: according to the blogger Vatikaki, Notshe was injured along with the Bishops prop from a few years back.
@beet: Was Notshe (Wynberg last year) not available for selection? See he played for the WP Vodacom Cup team this year, didn’t look too bad.
4 England players from the side that played against SA U18 are in this years England U20 squad – Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi (Moulton College) (Northampton Saints) , Callum Braley (Hartpury College) (Bristol Rugby) , Ross Moriarty (Hartpury College) (Gloucester) and Tom Stephenson (Moulton College) (Northampton Saints) . Anthony Watson played for England U18 in 2012 but did not tour SA
@beet: If your scrum is under pressure you are in trouble. My personal choice is the bigger boys, with the right coaching/game plan, will provide space for the backs. But poor scrums always result in bad ball for backs.
@beet: Ruan Botha not the smallest either. I count 3 wins Beet if you include our SAU18 win!
@beet: And we must also remember a short 8 also put pressure on locks line out time. Maybe a case of certain coaches prefer certain players. Stoney definitely one of the better captains in his age group but the modern game requires, unfortunately, certain features from certain positions especially at 8, being the link between front and back. But who are we to question. Am sure Dawie will give 10 reasons why he picked Stoney. But unfortunately his shortcomings is on display and that will result in fewer career options later on.
@Tjoppa: I think our scrumming at all levels is a bit behind the NH. We place less emphasis there but whether it hurts us overall or not I’m not sure. We now have 2 wins in a row vs England u20 who are good at scrumming. In last year’s final we actually outscrummed NZ. But we did have big Paul Willemse helping out from the 2nd row.
@Tjoppa: What is interesting that in a position I have always regarded as a strength of SA rugby – No.8, Dawie has had huge difficulty finding the right player. Certainly at school level we never have a shortage of quality players in that position. Theron has tried and failed there with the likes of Roelof Smit, L Damens even Johan Meyer. I think Benn even had the oppotunity to try out during trials. So a bit of a surprise to see the lack of options in this position. Stoney almost seems to have earned the possie by default.
@Slam: If he is too slow as 8 then too slow for modern 3 also. Maybe retread him as a “Brussouw like” player. His only hope?
@beet: This is what will happen if we pick “loosie like” props. The scrum especially in the Northern Hemisphere is an important part of rugby. Only in South Africa that we think we know better. Dr Craven always said first he pick his tight head then captain then the rest of the team. But what did he know??
@beet: Beet at least Musi can see that Steenkamp is too short to progress any further as an 8. Johan Meyer will have a more successful career at the back of the scrum
@beet: I remember 2011 for 2 things – Jean Cook being played at lock because we had no decent depth and Jaco Taute’s piss poor attempted tackle on Christian Wade which gifted England a try.
@Slam: Last year we had our fair share of lineout woes to begin with as well if I remember correctly. The year before that we were forgettable at lineout time. Just remember Jean Cook being clueless and out of his depth. The hookers struggled to find their targets. This year we did well with du Toit. I guess we could not afford to fail in this department after Theron left Freddie Kirsten out of the squad altogether.
@Umtata: Ja overall I think we gave away just 2 scrum penalties. This scrumming performance was a huge improvement on the scary scenes of last year when Muzi’s favourite prop Oliver Kebble went backwards and even upwards off his feet in one scrum.
@Muzi: My hypocrite, a few days back you were saying Beerwinkel would stand up to the scrumming test.
Marne Coetzee kept on popping up in every scrum, we were only penalised once though.
Rohan should start at 12, Pollard at 10, Du Preez bench, Sithole at 1
What’s up with the locks? Worried
I just hope Cheslin and Justin are okay
@beet: i think we will meet again if we top the group and England get the best 2nd place finish.
Dawie was lucky last year with the size of the locks he had – Pieter Steph du Toit, Ruan Botha and Paul Willemse all big guys
Lock is a headache this year. Sounds like Herbst and Visser are not up to it so he has to give Kirsten a run out against France
Agree with all of the above, Beerwinkel and the front row buckled! Sithole and Coetzee were far better in the scrums. The locks were shocking! Ungerer looked a little slow and agreed Du Preez should not be ahead of Pollard, maybe try him at centre. Just imagine if we had Serfontein and Sergeal there.
@Woltrui:
Our Baby Boks front row was in turbo reverse Beerwinkel is ordinary, fatties like Etienne Swanepoel,Neethling Fouche and hooker Frederick Kirsten could have made a massive difference.
Geez how lazy is that Irne Herbst??other than throwing punches he has seriously done nothing for the past two games the lad needs to pull up his socks.
Very disappointed with Visser we really miss Orie in the line outs even the athletic Jean Kleyn from WP could have been a better option.
Robert Du Preez hasn’t impressed me at all without a doubt he’s solid player but he needs to work on his tactical game.
Pollard is an outstanding player let him let him run the show at flyhalf. Sadly he had an off day with the boot against the USA but Handre will bounce back I hate it when coaches move players out of position I blame Dawie Theron,Brenden Venter,Nollis Marais hell even the Bulls management.
Our midfield needs a player like Rohan Janse Van Rensburg he’s a tank at inside centre with his size, acceleration and skills he could add an extra dimension to our attack.
I agree with most comments above.
I thought that we looked good with ball in hand, and then the old SA disease set in, and we started to kick the ball away and our defence was found wanting. In the end, the BB were relieved when the final whistle blew.
Front row were poor. The replacements did a better job. We are lacking a good tight head.
What shocked me was that we did not contest a single lineout. What is the use of having all that tall timber? Even if you do not manage to steal ball, you need to put the opposition under pressure, and hope that they make mistakes.
@Woltrui: I agree with you concerning Stoney Steenkamp it looks like the Bulls want him to move to hooker due to his lack of height and size…remember he played hooker for coach Paul Anthony in the Tukkies young guns side.
I really liked the way the BBs started the match. Their carrying had penetration and their decisiveness at the ruck was great. The support play and particularly clearing at the rucks allowed for A+ ball.
SA have to come to grips with the conditions tho. The ball was difficult to handle but they need to hold those balls in contact. All the structure went out the window coz of lack of continuity due to poor holding on and we could not hurt England out wide where they clearly looked weak.
I was happy with the scrumming in the end. In my mind England is the toughest test of all and it should be downhill all the way from here, provided we don’t meet them again. Lineouts went well to.
Du Plessis, Smit, Du Toit, Kolbe, Senatla and Obi all good for me.
Also thought England 11 – Noel, 2 Cowan-Dickie, 8-Clifford very good and 12 had his moments.
No.5-Barrow cost them 8 points via a pen and poor attempted tackle on Du Plessis near the line.
In the end a very good win.
Agree with most of the comments;
Pollard is not a 12 – midfield defense was poor,
Ungerer’s service was slow – although the pack was under pressure which made things difficult,
du Plessis was impressive
the tight five for all their bulk were outmuscled,
the back three were deadly on attack but defensively disorganised on the right. Du Preez does not have the kicking game based on this performance.
That said England at this level are tough and a gutsy win in the end.
@BoishaaiPa: Heard rumours that the Bulls is busy trying to make Stoney Steenkamp a number 2? Maybe Musi got some info in this regard.
Agree that our tight five needs to be changed. I dont seen any of those 5 guys making the step up. Also agree with bhkgpa that Pollard needs to move to 10, his future is not at 12. The 2 players that really worry me is the locks, do we have more cover there?
@Woltrui: Our Captain was a bit absent when the game was played at pace. Agree with you that 2 will most probably suit him better in the long run. Did you notice how he packed down at blindside flank with every defensive scrum and Du Plessis went at 8?..he doesnt have the speed from 8th man to do cover work for tackling or chase down the ball. Du Plessis again had a huge game.
We need to get our scrums sorted out, it went much better when the reserves game on. Also we need to get Pollard at 10 as Du Preez doesn’t control the game enough. We must get our defense sorted out in the midfield. We still did well to beat a very good England team.
stem saam engeland se dissipline het hulle gekos. 8 lyk biq stadig.
Bokkies lucky to win. IMHO England were the better team. A couple of penalties in “grey” areas in the first twenty minutes won us the match. The Engeland pack was awesome. The no 8 and 5(playing like Martin Johnson) was outstanding.
Against this strong and physical England team we needed a bigger 8. Stoney will have to move to 2 in order to play the modern game. Pollard needed to play at 10. His kicking out of hand much better than Du Preez,s. He could have released a lot of pressure on the team.
Agree with Musi. We need the big Klofie inside centre.
Looking at the other teams in the competition – Engeland by far the biggest and most physical. After this “lucky” win we might just go all the way. Hopefully for the Bokkies Engeland don’t make the playoffs.
hierdie agterlyn lyk verskriklik gevaarlik, weet nie leka wat die stutte aan vang nie daar was nie een steady scrum nie. geel kaart was belaglik en senatla se derde drie moes een gewees het. pongola seun het weer ‘n goeie game gehad amper soos die enigste loosie gelyk.( jaques du plessis)
@BOG: ai Bog waar kom jy aan al die twak wat jy so rook. WP het ‘n Eksteen laaitie en jou Jordaan hou nie van kompetisie nie. Hou nou op om te treur oor EW, hy is nou ons s’n. Julle het klaar vir Daniller en Viljoen wat jul hier kom vat het.
Sedert hulle n protea in die Bok se agterent opgedruk het, het hy soms gesukkel, Miskien sal die skeiding help. Nooit gedink ek sal, behalwe vir die Britse Leeus van 1974, sien dat n Engelse span vir n SA span laat sweet in die skrums nie. Op n ander (en positiewe) noot- ek merk dat Pieter Jordaan (WP) en Piet Lindeque (Sharks) terugkeer na Bloemfontein om die skade aan hulle spelpyl te herstel. Miskien moes EW Viljoen eers met hulle gepraat het voordat hy pen op papier gesit het vir die Wee Pee. Soos n OG elders se- EW se spel is van so n hoe standaard, dat dit slegs die WP is wat dit sal kan opdonner. Ek hoop hy gee daai advies aan sy seun en stuur hom uit die Kaap, Bloem toe.
@Tjoppa: Die Bok het darem op die broek gepronk!
Did anyone notice the absence of the Springbok on the jersey? Canterbury more important?