Maritzburg College is the oldest high school in KwaZulu-Natal and one of the oldest schools in South Africa. In 2013 the school turns 150 years old. An Easter rugby festival featuring well recognised rugby schools has been arranged as part of the 150th celebrations. The big guns in attendance will be Affies (Pretoria), Monnas (Krugersdorp), Grey (Port Elizabeth) and Noord-Kaap (Kimberley). Along with the hosts, Dale (King Williams Town), Queens (Queenstown) and Rondebosch (Cape Town) are regular challengers for annual SA Top 20 places. Durban High School (DHS) and Jeppe (Johannesburg) are two schools that have struggled on the rugby field in recent seasons but with more emphasis being placed on their rugby of late, it might just be a question of time before the improvements are noticed in their 1st XV results.
Fixtures:
| Day 1 | Saturday 30 March | |
| 10h10 | Noord-Kaap | Jeppe |
| 11h30 | DHS | Rondebosch |
| 12h50 | Queens | Affies |
| 14h10 | Dale | Monument |
| 15h30 | Maritzburg College | Grey High |
| Day 2 | Monday 01 April | |
| 10h10 | Monument | Rondebosch |
| 11h30 | DHS | Dale |
| 12h50 | Queens | Jeppe |
| 14h10 | Maritzburg College | Noord-Kaap |
| 15h30 | Affies | Grey High |
| Day 3 | Wednesday 03 April | |
| 09h00 | Dale | Affies |
| 10h20 | Grey High | DHS |
| 11h40 | Rondebosch | Jeppe |
| 13h00 | Monument | Noord-Kaap |
| 14h20 | Maritzburg College | Queens |
Does anyone know if the Skonk Nicholson fixtures are available yet for the U14 and U16 teams? If follows on from the 150th festival from 4-6 April.
Google has not been very helpful on this – lots of reporting but no fixture list. Does anyone know where I can find it?
@Grasshopper:
Unfortunately in the world we live in comparing players is an inevitable process,no matter how different they are. Yes Fred could make it as a scrummie but he doesn’t play the Sharks type of game at flyhalf hence it being unlikely that he makes it at FH but yes,maybe at SH.
@Horsie, agreed there can be one brilliant individual in an average team that can make it, no doubt. I think you can’t really compare Cope and Zeilanga, completely different types of players. Also Zeilanga has proven himself at a higher level, Under 21 and I think if was not for an injury would have been the highest points scorer in the Under21 Currie Cup, or whatever they call it. Fred is in the mould of a Johnny Wilkinson whereas Cope maybe more of a Quade Cooper. Fred is far the better kicker but Cope may be the better runner. If Fred could get into the Sharks SR set-up he could prove himself, maybe even as a back-up scrummie to Reinach..
@Grasshopper:
Strauss isn’t too bad IMO but also not as good as he is made out to be. Don’t know about Fred at the Bulls though because they seem to already have Handre as the answer and with stories of Morne wanting to leave Pollard might be the no.10 sooner than expected because Louis Fouche isn’t really SuperRugby material. Freddyy wasn’t chosen because Dawie Theron made it clear that what he wanted was size which was proven by him saying ‘size’ everytime they asked him about Pollard.
With the recent rugby suuccess there should be a Glenwood bok but it doesn’t always go that way.
Eg, if you look at both DHS and Glenwood 1st sides of 2012 Glenwood was much better but DHS might be the one who gets a Bok from their 2012 side for example. The whole Bok thing works in its own way.
I am hoping that flyhalf Brendan Cope works his way up though.some of the people I’ve spoken to have told me that the main reason he hasn’t been starting is because he doesn’t have a contract. That should go away next year though…
Also, I do rate him as more of a NATURAL talent that Freddy though.
Hockey success …. how???
http://saschoolsports.co.za/hockey/kwazulu-natal/hockey-secrets-to-top-school-coachs-success.html
@Horsie, true because they playing for the wrong province. If they were all playing for the Bulls then maybe. Strauss is a joke as a bok hooker, not good enough in my opinion. Anyway, Zeilanga should have been called into the Under20 squad but didn’t. There will be a Glenwood Bok in the near future, they just need to go to the Bulls. Bresler is not too bad, he just needs a decent hair cut……or hare sny as my dad would say…
Very tough for any of those guys to make it . If you think of all the guys ahead of. Them in their positions its unlikely but not impossible.
RE Cooper:
Don’t forget the Sharks still have Bissie to come back so Cooper will still be in the back seat .
@Roger, we all know it does not work like that. Anyway, if you analyse the results between Westville vs Glenwood, College vs Glenwood and Affies vs Glenwood down the line and compare to KES results against each, the schools are evenly matched….
Glenwood’s Bok hopes lie with Kyle Cooper (if only Plum gave him an extended run, he is not as quick as Burden, but far better in the tight), Fran Kleyneins, Warren Whiteley (just capped for Bok 7’s), Sean Adendorff (maybe as a hooker as he is a little small for a flank) and Fred Zeilanga (if given a chance too, but will have to fight with Lambie, Jantjes, Goosen and Pollard. I would be happy if any of these guys made it.
@Gungets Tuft: might we see Siyabonga Ntubeni been picked by HM soon? Although he may find himslef competing with Malcolm Marx in years to come at number 2?
@Gungets Tuft:
Hopefully HM can realize that and pick him next June.
Would be awesome for him, I think he would join the club of those who were never selected for craven week and made it to the Bok team
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Agree, Bresler is a grafter where I think (well at least until the English game – he was much more involved there). Etsebeth hangs around the fringes too much and does not graft enough at the breakdown. Like I said – better against England, but he needs to realise he is not a 6/7/8 and get to it. Perhaps Bresler is the Bakkies to the Matfield of Etsebeth???
@Gungets Tuft:
yes im being optimistic but not impossible.methinks that if he has the kind of SR season he had this year in 2013, he’ll be hard to say no to. hes 24,can only get better so i see no reason why not. also, i think that he and Etzebeth would make one heck of a partnership at lock. i also rate him much higher than J.Kruger whos IMO just another body on the field.
@Roger: Conundrum indeed. I will check the College records but don’t hink we had any playing in those years, which gives me a technical “out” :-))
De Kock – will be following with interest. His recent limited overs domestic knock was something else.
And when I said “Ungerer less so ..” I meant I don’t know him as well, not that I don’t regard him highly. He was not nicknamed Staffie for nothing.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Very very optimistic as long as HM is in charge – seems as if the Bulls players have the inside track :-)
Sure I am optimistic – why be any other way. I know enough about Reegan, Jesse and Daniel to not bet against higher honours for them. Ungerer less so but he has been picked for the SA U21 squad, so that’s a pretty good sign.
Robertson – must be decent, played the Olympics (I think – too lazy to check) and for SA – they don’t pick just anyone.
@Gungets Tuft: ah – were those Zim games not official then? Here’s what is known as a conundrum then? The ICC and the IRB do not recognise those “rebel” era tests – therefore, does KES count Lee Barnard, Ray Jennings, Hugh Page etc? Do Grey Bloem count Jaco Reinach? Interesting?
Not sure Quinton De Kock is a better keeper than Vilas. The Aussies are regretting going for a batsman who can keep rather than a keeper who can bat – Wade missed a regulation stumping and catch that in the context of the game were huge. I am pretty sure De Kock will make it as a batsman in time though – he is dynamic. Tsolekile is 33 – time up methinks
@HORSEFLY NO.1: yes – Fennel is a real catch for DHS – best of luck to him and them
@Gungets Tuft:
nice one. do you know anything about Grant Robertson? apparently hes pretty good-hockey.
i see you are quite optimistic about those twins and the others hey? i think like one of them will make it in rugby out of those four and we both know whom that is. im hoping HM picks Bresler so he can become our next Bok.!!
@Roger: We would not count Vilas as he played for the SA XI, not the Protea’s. You will not find those Zim games on the official lists of international games sanctioned by the ICC.
Not sure he is going to get a look in as Protea keeper, looks like Tsolokile has the inside track, then he would have to compete with Quintin de Kok who is red hot right now – but is still a KES Old Boy so a decent swap for you okes
@Roger:
He officially arrives in January but has already done so much ever since he was announced to be coming. Very hands-onn kind of guy.think KES has really lost out.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: We set our own standards. For rugby we like to ensure that our boks have won World Cups, we especially like fly-halves who win them for us
We have added 2 more Springboks in Matt Guise-Brown and Grant Gludz for hockey against Japan and Argentina this month, but I think for rugby we might need to wait a few years until Jesse and Daniel Kriel run on with Stefan Ungerer and Reegan Smith :smile:
@HORSEFLY NO.1: I couldn’t even hazard a guess but it must be up above 100 – I can think of 20+ in my era! Yes – real pity about the fixture – it must have been running for 40 odd years? When does Fennel arrive?
apologies – last post was for Gungets Tuft
@Andre T: yes, on the list Horsie posted it was only test players but excluded players who have been capped at ODI and T20 level such as, for KES, Vaughan Van Jaarsveld, Nick Pothas, Dane Vilas and for other countries such as Matt Prior and Ryan Watson. Incomplete in my opinion.
KP – great talent but a real pillock. Not sure how Eng put up with him
@star: College represented there as well but we don’t count baseball, even if it is played with a flat stick rather than a round one :-)
Rugby Sevens might be a different matter ..
@Gungets Tuft:
but if SA Rugby see Burden as a Bok now, so should College so the criteria might be too strict im afraid
@Grasshopper:
thats because 1st of all he didnt move ALL the way from Pretoria, we arent Glenwood(no buying rumours going around at DHS).
but yes it was many years ago and this is 2012 so let it go…
@Andre T:
what happened to Rory Sabbatini, a DPHS and DHS oldie…
@Roger:
how many do you think KES has had? i know DHS has had over 150 of them… sad about the rugby fixture but i do understand, im sure itll be reinstated in a couple of years time(or maybe KES will be too scared to play us then) :razz:
@Andre T: that’s what I read – with Blair Atholl a likely venue?
@Roger: I believe that tests is the criteria used for the link that Horsie posted.
Sure, most of the schools have people that have played tests for other countries, both rugby and cricket, but they will not be part of the SA Internationals list. College maintain a list of Old Boys that represent other countries. They also have very strict criteria for listing Internationals – they may not be part of a “friendly” and just going on tour does not count – for instance Craig Burden travelled with the Boks for the Rugby Champs but didn’t get a cap, he is not on the list.
KP – mixed feelings for me at least.
The World Golf Champs will take place in SA from next year but not too sure if its replacing the Million Dollar.
@Andre T: apologies, misread there – no KES boys at the Nedbank Challenge. Agree on Allan Versveld though – he was also a SA Schools hockey player I believe. What’s this I hear about this been the last Nedbank Challenge / Million Dollar to be replaced by a world series tourno?
@Roger: No Rog, they are good, especially Allan, but not good enough yet for Nedbank Challenge. I think Allan can go a long way in golf.
hmmm, so Westville beat Glenwood last time out, Kes beat Westville therefore Kes would have beaten Glenwood – QED
@ Horsie – yes, would like to see the list of cricketers by school who have played first class cricket as well – would be very interesting
@ Andre T – Allan or Mathew Versveld perhaps?
@HORSEFLY NO.1: I know of Garth Mulroy, DHS old boy, playing in the Nedbank Challenge at Sun City. Any Westville, Glenwood or KES old boys playing here this week?
@Horsie, funny there was no stink put up back then when BJ appeared in the DHS 1st team having been there less than a year. It seems these days it’s not allowed or frowned upon where headmasters ask other headmasters to remove these boys from their teams…
@Roger, 3 of those games against Glenwood were in the 30’s and 40’s when half the school was in the war. I know KES was too, so well done there. Therefore, taking into consideration the last generation, so 50 years it’s 1 a piece, with Glenwood having the last win, a large one too. You are only as good as your last game…..
KES vs Garstfontein would be the pick of the week.
@Roger:
if including everything else DHS has around 38 if im not mistaken. and im pretty sure that the numbers will increase in a couple of years time.
it would be interesting to know how many KES old boys have played first class provicial or county cricket in the UK and SA.
@Grasshopper:
i think he did matric at DHS,not post-matric.
@ Beet Hi Beet – think they only finalise them next year. Participating schools are:
King Edward VII School
Date: Thursday 28 March to Monday 1 April 2013
Participating schools: Centurion, Eldoraigne, Garsfontein, Hudson Park, Invitation XV, KES, Kingswood, Lichtenburg, Marlow, Menlo Park, Parktown, Trinityhouse
@Roger: Hi Roger. Can’t you pse try get us the KES Fes fixtures. I have thus far lucked out with HoR after going via the head coach
@ Grasshopper – can only play who’s in front of you – not KES’s fault DHS, College, Westville, Hilton, Michaelhouse and Northwood are not consistent enough
vs Kearsney – played 4 won 4
vs Glenwood – played 5 won 4
KES are pretty good on Goldstones – won there in 2011 and put 50 past College in 2009!
Have not lost to Westville away for a loooong time either – was a draw in 2009. I see the long standing KES DHS fixture is off as well?
@ Gungets- How about the HK 6s?(Sanctioned by the Int. controlling body).Westville had 30% of the team
@Gungets – Vilas played for SA in the series against Zim prior to the England tour this year and by all accounts is a hot favourite to take over as ‘keeper. Not sure I agree with your reasoning there? Are you saying a T20 or ODI cap for SA does not constitute an international? How about been capped for another country ala Kevin Pietersen (how proud College must be of him??)
@Roger: Which international team did Dane Vilas play for?
The criteria is that players are capped in international test matches (rugby) and Protea caps for test cricket – to me implies the 5 day game. Dane Vilas played for the SA XI, was not considered a SA cap.
@Roger, well we will only ever know if the schools play. You see Monnas are happy to play Glenwood on an annual basis now. Glenwood will have an inexperienced side in 2013, but these kids could surprise a few. I see KES has avoided the best KZN side every year, Kearsney and Michaelhouse this year and Glenwood the 4 or 5 years prior to that but then make claims of dominating KZN……Westville and College at home will be tough games for KES…
@ Grasshopper – I am not sure how strong KES 2013 will be. Off the top of my head they have 4 forwards and 3 backs returning including Marco Engelbrecht, the flyhalf – this will be his third year at 1st XV level. It is always difficult to judge the U16 results as the 1ST XV coaches always take a few of their stars into the enlarged squad to give them exposure. As always – I am sure they would be strong enough to put one over Glenwood :grin: Westville will be looking for their first win since 2006 and College since 2010 :grin:
@ Horsie re: test cricketers – I saw that article. KES lists 26 international cricketers, although that would include ODI’s, T20’s and other countries. What would DHS be on? The latest KES international is Dane Vilas. I would love to see a list of total provincial cricketers by school?
if posties didn’t count then a few schools would lose their Boks etc. I think BJ Botha did post matric at DHS, he was a year below me but not sure….he was at Kloof for most of high school.
@Grasshopper:
Not too sure but I think he spent about 4 years at DHS and half a year at Hilton before moving to England.
Haha maybe he should,seriously not understanding my point!
@Gungets Tuft:
Wish I could find out more.
@Grasshopper: Provided he did not do the Hilton as a post-matric. I reckon it is where he last did school in SA – because if a kif leaves DHS in Gr 11 to emmigrate, I reckon he is a DHS boy. Post Matric doesn’t count.
@Horsie, I see you have a new whipper snapper giving you grief on another thread, maybe he should learn about respect for elders etc….
Hmmm, not sure to be honest. It’s like Glenwood claiming Jade Dernbach for being there 18 months, not sure if they can. Was Compton at DHS longer than Hilton. Where did he end up last as that is where they usually associate the school…..do you know?
@Grasshopper:
as for international cricketers, i wonder where nic compton would be put as both dhs and hilton claim him. any thoughts?
@Horsie, well done to DHS, a great achievement!
@Grasshopper:
take a look at this:
http://www.schoolsportsnews.co.za/cricket/most-test-cricketers-by-school-2/
DHS in front by a bit hey… also, the info is wrong. DHS has had 27
@Horsie, I’m sure they would have beaten the Glenwood side away, not sure about at home, who knows.
As for Westville posting negative things, it’s not negative it’s the truth. If they lose a game the results should be posted and the opposition given credit, they only post their wins…..highly skewed…
@Grasshopper:
their U16s beat Westville, drew to College and lost to DHS. i think they wouldve beaten Glenwood though
but i have heard of some ‘recruitments’ to KES so they shouldnt be too bad.
RE westville
its their choice not to post the negative things but i do think that IMO it doesnt give them the greatest of names
Hmmm, I believe they have a few back from the 1st team, no Marx though. Also, heard their Under16’s beat Westville so are pretty good. Maybe we should ask Roger?
@Grasshopper: Are KES going to be as tough as they were this year?
Oooh, KES the week prior, not a good run into Reunion Day, but Glenwood could have a tough one too. I need to get our fixtures
@Grasshopper: 2013 Fixtures – no easy periods.
9 March – Wartburg Rugby Festival
16 March – George Campbell, Treverton, Carter
19 March – Voortrekker vs 2nds and other staggers
30 March – 3 April – 150th Rugby Festival
4 – 6 April – Skonk Festival
13 April – Pretoria Boys (Away)
20 April – DHS, Port Natal
27 April – Northwood
2 – 4 May – Wildeklawer at College
11 May – Michaelhouse
18 May – K.E.S
25 May – Reunion Day – Glenwood
1 June – Hilton
8 June – Kearsney
15 June – Westville
20 July – Affies
27 July – Pretoria Boys (Home)
3 August – Glenwood (Away)
College play KES the week before. Michaelhouse once again get the benefit of facing College immediately after Wildeklawer. Dont think it will be as bad as last year though. Michaelhouse played College after Wildeklawer and the trip up to KES which resulted in 8 players being out of the team. No travelling next year.
@All Black, agreed it is immense for the boys. Do you know what games are scheduled for the lead up to the day? Because if you have Affies the week prior that would be suicide. Also, I am hoping College & Glenwood don’t have the debacle of this year, trekking from Wildeklawer into further big games. Hoping College can put one over KES at Goldstones in 2013….
The reunion day pressure on the College boys is immense. I doubt it helps our boys at all. They seem to be exhausted by the time the actual day arrives after so many functions etc. The adrenalin for these boys kicks in for the entire week and we all know that this is not conducive to playing sport. Wouldnt change it for anything though.
From a very reliable source. Westville have been asked a few times to play on Reunion Day and were not keen. Not sure of the reasons but there it is. Glenwood is obviously a great choice due to their ability to give every team a game on the day. Glenwood also do not have a problem with the added pressure of the day and it looks like they really enjoy sharing the occasion with College. This will be a special occasion next year and hosting Glenwood, who really want to be there, will be great.
@Horsie, agreed boet. I never see the results on the Westville site when they lose, they are swept under the carpet just like a few other things there eg a kid with a twisted ankle last year and some ‘independent’ auditors….
@Griffon: As I ended my post – IF THAT IS THE CASE. They may have refused the fixture for other reasons (clash with a previous arrangement, tour etc). Let’s not jump to conclusions here. BUT – if they did opt out because the occassion would prejudice the result for them then they ar in it for the wrong reasons. Like you say, the Westville boys would no doubt love to be there regardless of the result. Also they probably don’t know their history – College haven’t had a good reunion day record recently
Also – I’d be pretty upset that Glenwood didn’t get first option 
@ Horsy : True, but no school can be ‘perfect’ or try be ‘perfect’. They forget its not about them, they don’t run onto the field, or might not know what running onto the field feels like, but the boys live for that. Playing College on their reunion day would be a day most of the boys would’nt forget even if they lose or win.
@Griffon:
Yes that’s true and if there’s one thing I’ve noticed about Westville its that they generally don’t really post the negative results on their site. When they win its usually ‘Westville smashes…’Or ‘Highway giants can’t be beat!!’
When results haven’t gone like how they hoped they usually tend to not show up.they couldve felt that playing at College on their special day would be too much for them and bring negative publicity
If Westville did turn it down, I’m sure the boys might have not been told about the offer. The Heads sometime forget about what the fixture would mean to the boys. I’m sure the boys would be pretty keen to play College on their reunion day if they were asked.
@beet: No – first game in 1986, unofficial, for the Gert Maritz Festival, during the preseason. Westville won, against a composite College IV who had a full round of cricket and polo that day, and have been trying to make it official ever since.
@Gungets Tuft: No I seem to remember someone mentioning that Westville did play College way back and that the fixture was halted for a few years before resuming in 1987
@beet: Are you trying to cause k#k here :-) :-)
@Grasshopper: Did Westville ever play College before 1987?
@Greenblooded, spot on mate. Westville have only been playing College since like 1987. Glenwood have played College since 1921……DHS should have been the pick but they just can’t compete past A team currently…another option for College could have been KES or PBHS but you would think local opposition is better for a great day like this. Hoping I can be there..
@Greenwood: Not sure – All Black would know more. Certainly Glenwood and Westville are the only 2 KZN schools capable of offering College (and each other) down the line fixtures with no staggers which is what you would want on an occasion like reunion day where all the teams get to play the same opposition. I would like to think that Glenwood got ‘right of first refusal’ here – being a much older rival than Westville who have only become a rugby power in more recent times. If it is true that Westville were offered the fixture and turned it down then it’s a poor show on their part IMHO. Any school should jump at the opportunity to take part in such an auspicious occassion and would suggest that results are more important to them than pride – IF that is the case of course.
All Black & Greenblooded – College Reunion Day —
what is meant by Westville wern’t keen to play
College on Reunion Day ? were they by any chance
offered this fixture ?
If I were Westville and taking into account the clap they got at Westville from MC this year I would say a polite no thank to a game at Goldstone especially on this great occasion
@GreenBlooded: Will be great to host Glenwood and their supporters.
@beet: PaarlBok will be able to confirm that, but I do know they will have a very impressive set of loosies again. As I said before, there is very little to choose between the top 5 or 6 schools and Gim will certainly be up there and challenging for the top spot next year.
@Ploegskaar: I heard Gimmies will have a huge pack next year.
@Andre T: Boys have to go farm, no time for idle games! They have 2 players from this year’s squad that were purchased by the Bulls, so will keep an eye on them. I Hope BL can maintain their 2012 form next year, but the lineup at KERF and Wildeklawer will be tough with no easy games. Teams to watch next year will be Paul Roos and Outeniqua in my opinion, and coming from me that says alot!
@All Black: OK – there were a lot of posts on this blog that is was going to be DHS due to them being your oldest rival.
Glenwood or Westville would make more sense for a reunion day as you mentioned. Nice to see only 2 sets of jerseys in the school and not having to play staggers below A team level for a special occassion. What an honour for Glenwood to be part of this auspicious occasion!!
@Ploegskaar: Jammer weereens……bg vir jou aandag…..nie myne…..gevolge van n nimmereindigende sessie…..raak warm hier in die Wes Transvaal.
@Andre T: Deon Carstens……sorry…..Nico mos trekklavier ekspert…….bied hulle musiek aan by BL?
@Ploegskaar: Wat word van die klipkakhuise na skool? Word hulle boere of konstruksiewerkers? Ek weet net van een oud-KKH voorspeler wat provinsiaal of beter is, Nico Carstens. Volgens die Monnamanne is dit altyd die oulikste en taaiste span om teen te speel. Dink jy die KKH’e gaan daai singende, handvashouende Polesterien Hoed Draers laat skyt op Kearsney?
@BOG: Well, in the case of the Landbou boys, unkind rumour over the years has been that its because of a steady diet of porridge and ox lungs. From what I have learned from friends with laaities there, its probably down to big healthy meals and physical excercise doing farm work, combined with the modern fitness regimes a rugby player is subject to. Note they are not always that tall, but most are built like brick shithouses, and boy do they like running at the opposition.
@GreenBlooded: It was always going to be Glenwood. Unfortunately none of the other schools have enough teams all the way down and Westville were not keen on playing College on reunion day.
2.10! There was a kid in my year at 2.15 but he played volleyball. We tried to get him to play rugby but he rightfully declined as he went on to play college volleyball in the USA. He would have been great though, 2.15 and 110kg, perfect for school level…although how do you partner a lock that tall…
@Ploegskaar: The question is- are they muscles from the gym or from the Spur? The muscles from the latter, only function at the first scrum.
@beet: What is the problem then? GCB can take on Klofies at 10 and Monnas at 12 o clock.
@Grasshopper: The EG Jansen lock from this year – JP du Preez 2.10m :shock:
@Beet, two words, Paul Willemse…..
@Ploegskaar: We’ve seen the Affies, Monnas and EG packs at KERF. I can’t imagine they come any bigger than that :smile:
I hope there’s going to be some refreshments served at this festival. And a braai or two?
@Rugger fan: Agreed, good genes, the correct diet from a young age and exercise are all factors that can contribute to healthy development. Can’t wait to hear some of the comments about the size of some of the Landbou forwards after KERF and Wildeklawer next year, they breed them big down there!
I see that the College Reunion Day fixture is to be against Glenwood – not DHS as previously thought? This is according to the latest College newsletter. Why the change of heart?
@Chart: I have asked. They are not yet finalised.
I have been told that Grey College vs Gimmies is on the cards which means that either Monnas or Klofies will miss out on the chance to play Grey in 2013.
@beet, do you know when the wildeklawer fixtures are to be released?
@Rugger fan: WOW!Thats a big boy
@Playa: True – my lightie is 13 – and is bigger than most of our firends writing Matric (a good 5 years his senior) – but his age is genuine. And he is starting with some light facial hair, is 6ft tall, has developed muscle structure and could easily pass for 16, and he is by no means the biggest in a few of the teams he played in.. So yes – there is merit in what you say, looks can decieve.
@beet: It definitely isn’t a case of over-supply.The EC rugby fraternity,to use an oxymoron (hope I got that right),as big as it is,it is actually a very small place.A kid going through the development ranks is known by all.There have been cases for example where a boy in Grade 9 would be 17 years old.Dale would know about it,take them in to play rugby for 3 years,and allow him to complete their matric and arrange for them to get into the Border under 21 set-up.
In Payi/Tom cases, this would have been a case where everyone knows about their age,and as a result remain in a township/rural school…then someone who KNOWS as Gungets Tuft has pointed out,would then arrange an opportunity for them in a school outside the province.That has been happening for years.
@oldschool: The more you talk,the more you prove that your thesis is based upon race.And please refer to my post to beet @14:11.
Now that we’ve figured that out,let’s move on.
Firstly, accusing a school of using over-age players “because they look old” is a sensitive issue.Contraru to your belief,debate is more often than not around a sensitive issue.This is a very serious allegation,one,I’m afraid that requires evidence,concrete or not,to be substantiated.”Looking old” just does not cut it.What is it that makes them look old,I ask again?Bone structure,facial hair,eyes,nose,what is it exactly?People have to see my wedding band on my finger to believe Im older than 16…the 2011 Selborne pack looked like a Vodacom Cup pack, the current SA Schools side weighs as much as the 1992 Bok side…I maybe digressing here,and maybe falling off the point,but what I’m getting to here is that “looking old” is not sufficient,and neither do 2 boys coming from the EC who happen to have been publicised,when this is a national problem mostly kept hush.Accusing a school like that may be your view…it is a serious allegation nonetheless.It needs to be tested, for the sake of schoolboy rugby,but people need to substantiate their views more thoroughly.
@Playa: That is an interesting point about the players not attending EC Schools. It’s something I’ve wondered about before. Were these players not considered by the local schools or is there just an oversupply of talent in a region with many little settlements and a fairly rich culture of playing rugby, that local EC Schools can’t track or accommodate all the talent.
With regards to the leak on the boys coming from the EC, quite possible but the more light that gets shed on the Mbembe issue, the more puzzling it becomes as to why he wasn’t found out in 2010.
@oldschool: Don’t underestimate the role played by the scouts as well. Don’t tell me that the oke who found Mssrs Tom and Payi did not know about the age problem – Tom in particular was 5 years older than his peers. Hard to miss that i the shower after the game. Someone knew. As for cultural influences – non-rural kids will find it harder to hide age because the moment our kids are born we rush off the paper and announce the child, then off to Home Affairs to register them, then the medical aid to make sure that Discovery pays for the nappy rash. It’s a nice big shining (and in the case of the nappy … er .. ) trail.
In the rural areas there is no big deal, or certainly wasn’t until the advent of social grants. Now that the parents can pick up some wonga to help support the child we will have a trail to follow and it will help stem the tide, if there is the will to do it.
As for race – well, I can imagine the situation arising if we start getting polo players on scholarship from Central Europe – who is to say that the talented exchange student from Hungary is the right age. It’s about traceability.
The buck must stop with the school. They must make the big effort to ensure that the child is at the right age because it is the school that will have the damaged reputation.
@beet: I agree with you.And I do not believe that people like old school for example are racists for lining their views along race lines.I just think that in SA,we are so sensitive about race that people “hide” views behind colourful words in fear of being labelled racists or being told they’re playing the race card.
That said, I know of 2 cases in the Western Cape where white players have been found to be over-age.This is where I was coming from.
I think the increasing numbers of exports into schools makes schools vulnerable.I am by no means dismissing possibilities that Dale may have been caught in this,but what I wanted to get to was the basis of these accusations.EC schools do the same screening that they have always done.2 boys who happen to be from the EC being bust in KZN schools for being old is not sufficient to accuse EC schools of using over-age boys.The question should be “why are these kids not being picked up by the top EC schools and crossing the border to KZN?”To which my answer would be, because they know something that those KZN schools don’t.I wouldn’t be surprise if the leak on Payi and Tom came directly from the EC.
@Playa: if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck …ITS A FRIKKEN DUCK !!!
mature debate is one without sensitivity and one where both parties can air their views based on iether fact or opinion ….so the race card used in any form be it in a question or an accusation is a feeble attempt to hide the facts …
The facts my friend are that up untill now 99% of age group rugby cheats come from rural or poor areas and are identified at rugby developement weeks where they get recruited to ply there trades at schools all over SA ….however , in 2012 the curtain came down on some of these recruits as cheats whom have exposed possible syndicates whom faulsify documentation so that the cheats can get a free ride for a few years …..and yes this happens down south in the EC and Border regoins whom just happen to be on your door step so surely you can appreciate that when you have a team where many of the players look way older than the “general ” rugby playing 18/19 year old school boy ….ones eye brows are raised ….then throw in a handfull of Zimbo recruits into the mix ……and suspicions are raised ….and then aired on forums such as this ….and im afraid old chap that where there is smoke there is fire !!!!
@All Black: I know for a fact that the No.8 was 19 years old.He even represented Zimbabwe at the U19 world champs this year.
@Playa: I agree with you 100%. This over-age issue is one that moves along racial lines. It therefore has the potential to be a sensitive topic. It doesn’t mean that the people who are talking about it are necessarily racists. BUT right or wrong the perception is there that the perpetrators belong to a particular race group. The audit in KZN leans towards this view. The frustration some of us here in KZN have is that the corruption in our school rugby has been exposed and is being addressed. A few of the students caught were from the E/Cape. We are now asking the logical question. Why isn’t the E/Cape and for that matter the rest of SA conducting similar audits? As for some EC schools, I think this suspicion about age thing is going to follow them around for a while at least. They might become victims of their own success. A proper audit might eventually end up being the only/best way to shut people up or prove that they were right all along.
@beet: So we know who the one insane blogger is………there are 2 more……..this is so scary. I’m still goosebumps after that story. Got shitscared in Queenspark’s dressing cubicles just now when I saw a shoe under the curtains. I’m telling……one out of every 6 normal modern day South Africans have criminal intent.
@Gungets Tuft: Howzit my china.
@Andre T: Tell me about it. We had this blogger on R365 with multiple personalities. Think his name was Festus or Nonnie or something
Scary stuff!
@Andre T: And we all know where you live!!
Apparently, 1 in 5 people in the world are Chinese. And there are 5 people in my family, so it must be one of them.
It’s either my mum or my dad. Or my older brother Colin. Or my younger brother HoChaChu. But I think it’s Colin.
I read an article about the horrible things that modern day South Africans have done like this Modimolle Monster, The Sunday Rapist, the school kid that slaughtered his family, those 2 in Welkom that butchered the guy etc. These acts were all done by normal people, like a neighbour kind of person. Stats show that 1 in every six people around you have these wharped ideas and might be criminally infatuated. How many participants are we here?…….20?…30?….40? On this site we might have a serial killer or mass murderer or even both. This scares the hell out of me.
@Andre T: Sjoe, third place in a Charles Bronson compo? That IS bad. And on top it, you are a fan of Mc Cully Workshop- a true Buccaneer!
@All Black: Thanks. Was not aware of hockey. Lets hope for really good weather for the MC150 because I’m sure the school is going to have some good entertainment lined up for families. This year there was some heavy rain down in PE at the Grey PE Festival and I recall how Goldstones took a beating in that thrilling MC vs Pretoria BH game in 2011. Do you think College should get a field specialist ahead of time to make sure the field is in tip-top condition and doesn’t get cut up in the wet?
Funny how you put a face to a name……Every time I see Bog’s name I think of that guy Dougal, from the Give that man a Bell’s ad…….when I see BoishaaiPa’s name I get a picture of an overweight Riaan Cruywagen. I actually thought I was a handsome oke till I won 3rd prize in a Charles Bronson look-a-like pagaent.
Andrew Hore looks like he’s 61.
Kurtley Beale touching 44
Etsebeth…….17
Looks can be deceiving……..Habana’s wife an example. (she must be the only girl that’s aware of his good looks)
Beet, not sure i you are aware that the 150th festival is on at the same time as the Nomad schools hockey festival at College? This is followed up immediately by the Skonk Festival. Have a feeling that Goldstones will be back to it’s traditional concrete style surface by the time normal school fixtures come around. Beautiful. Nothing better than a good tackle on the pitch. Maybe names of hockey teams participating would be of interest? Lots of action.
@All Black: Horsefly once mentioned you have a baby face?
@Playa: Their NO 8 looked older than me.
@oldschool: Please dont cal me names.If you cant be mature in debate,rather dont do it.
Deny it all you want,this ultimately is a race issue.You talk of “players from development weeks”, then talk of “rural boys”…then look at the make up of the Dale team that you are accusing of being over-age, and come and tell me again with a straight face that this has nothing to do with race.Besides,mine was a question not an accusation.
Now please answer my initial question:”What is it about the Dale players made you believe that they are over-age?”
@Playa:you play The race card ??? dont be a fool man ….its socio/econmoic…which effects many things in this country !!!! Frikken race card …idiot !!!!
@oldschool: They do what every other school does to ensure that boys are of good age.
So, I gather from your stance that this is a racial view?
From my experience,and view, well off (black and white) kids (and parents) are just as desperate to get into well established schools to open up future rugby prospects for them.Get scholarships, busaries etc.They are just as able (if not more able) to cheat given their access to resources.
I presume that,like all schools, the EC and Border schools only have birth certificates to work from.
All schools are vulnerable to cheats,and race or economic circustances are a small part of it.School’s eagerness for success and kids’/parents’ misguided ambitions are the huge factor.
Your assumptions/views are misguided and flawed,I’m afraid.
@Playa: Im going to answer this one with another question , what have dale done to ensure that the boys are of legal age ??
My view is that the age group cheats were exposed in KZN …whom only have a handfull of players each year from the developement rugby weeks ….whereas Dale is on the door step of the rural boy rugby player whom , as has been proven , will just about do anything to get into a boarding establishment for a few years and have the oppurtunity to play rugby and possibly get exposed to oppurtunities …..again ,as this a blog , i am expressing my personal views , but i believe many social economic circumstances combined with the schools appetite for rugby success exposes oppurtunity for boys /men to cheat there ages …..thats why i ask , what are dale or any of the other EC or Border schools doing to prevent this from happening ????
@BOG: Yes, I presume.I dont know how the top 20 was determined back then, but they were there.
@Playa: Monnas was in the Top 20?
@Andre T: Hahahaha!Monnas owe us.We played you guys in 2000 in my year at Loftus in the top 20 challenge.You guys got lucky and beat us 25-20.We’re going for the kill this time.Monnas owe Dale!!!
So what with the age thing……we’ll play anything thrown at us. I have no problem with the Dale boys. I’m looking forward to that clash. At last I can go toe-to-toe with Playa. Would have preferred Queens though…….would have been a lot easier.
I think it is pretty evident to all that on visual appearance man boys appear “over age” we all know the inherent problems with the even the “legal” document for ID, we know that boys are registered late and it will boil down to eventually having to test , or the demise of the school boy sport we love so much
@GreenBlooded: As it turned out, there is a boy who’s date of birth was printed out on the sheets at KERF last year, and happened to be over-age.
I understand what you mean,and how it can raise eyebrows not having DOBs printed when everyone else has,but my point is that printing them does not mean that what is on paper is true either.
@oldschool: This has kind of gotten old now.
What, if I may ask about these boys makes them look ‘old’ in your eyes?
@Umtata: Tough draw for the red and black…jeez!I was kind of hoping for a Dale-Maritzburg College clash.Just to finally decide who has the bragging rights to the redn and black colours.
P.S. Monument and Affies owe us a win…AMADODA!!!
@Greenwood: Yes – you would think someone would have co-ordinated things a little better. Perhaps they had the divorce rate in mind?
hang on ! is MC 150th fest same days as Kerf? what about Joe public SBR fans ?
already licking the lips -2013 sounds like a very busy SBR year already – can’t wait
@GreenBlooded: One just has to apply common sense and a visual anilysis of the boys faces ….not saying that all mature looking lads are over age , however , the majority of legal age boys have softer features ….the dale side of 2012 at the KERF looked like a u21 side …..again only my opinion …..
@GreenBlooded: It was the same in 2011. Names, photos but nothing else
@oldschool: Eish – I think after the debacle this season schools are going to be VERY cautious in this respect. 2 schools had their reputations damaged this season due to this (a few more would have if they had the balls to come clean).
One thing I did notice at last year’s KERF was that Dale were the only school not to print their players date of birth in the programme – not suggesting anything sinister but it prevent a few raised eyebrows if they published this info in 2013.
@Umtata: They havent been found guilty because no one has tested them , you have a lot of okes that just dont look 18/19 more like 21 / 22 ……the Zimb contingent of players at dale are very suspicious …..however , only my views , lets hope that the okes are of legal age ….
Man. I really wish they could switch days 2 and 3 around as on Day 3 there isn’t a clash with KERF. One never knows what to expect at school level. There are bound to be overachievers and underachievers, form teams and teams in a dip; but that said DAY 2 of MC150 looks like the best matchups to me.
Maritzburg College twins Jesse and Daniel Kriel included in the wider group for the super ruggby 2013 season.
Not surprised Xander is already influential as high performance manager.
@oldschool: I don’t know why you are saying this, as Dale College have never been found guilty of having overage players. This year they had a few u19s but no over age players.
@Umtata: I hope Dale arrive with players of legal age !!!
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Dont be so sure about that..Rondebosch is cultivating a very decent bunch of 2011 u/16’s into their first team next year. Their 2011 and 2012 u/16’s were very competitive against the Paarl and Stellenbosch schools. I think R’Bosch might have one of there better years of late in 2013.
eish. these are going to be tough games for DHS. i think Dale beat us 27-15 last year while Grey whacked us by 35 points, think Rondebosch will be a more realistic target for the win
I hope Dale can show the fighting spirit and exuberance they showed this year. Its really going to be tough for them considering the size of the Monnas and Affies packs. DHS pack wasn’t really big this year, except for that huge bog who weighed about 130kg.
I just wish Selbourne could share their secret, on how they get those boys big, with the other border colleges.