Western Province’s provisional Craven Week / Academy Week squad for is looking very strong. Looking ahead to Craven Week which kicks off on Monday 11 July 2016, Province faces Boland and then probably the winner of Eastern Province/KwaZulu-Natal on Day 3. If (when) they win those two matches, it’s likely that they will meet either the Blue Bulls or the Golden Lions in the final on the Saturday.
Combined squad listing
| # | NAME | SCHOOL |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Andre Booysen | Paarl Gim |
| 1 | Reece Bezuidenhout | HJS Paarl BH |
| 1 | Daniel Wessels | Paarl Gim |
| 1 | Lwando Zinto | Violets |
| 2 | Daniel Jooste | HJS Paarl BH |
| 2 | Liam Larkan | SACS |
| 2 | Sehan du Toit | Paarl Gim |
| 2 | Sisipho Zico | Plumstead |
| 3 | Adam Neethling | HJS Paarl BH |
| 3 | Tristan Leitch | Paul Roos |
| 3 | Stefan Alberts | Boland Landbou |
| 3 | Bulelani Salie | WCSS |
| 4 | Ben-Jason Dixon | Paul Roos |
| 4 | Jesse Johnson | Paul Roos |
| 4 | Matthew Grobler | Rondebosch |
| 4 | Alex Halvorsen | SACS |
| 5 | Salmaan Moerat | HJS Paarl BH |
| 5 | Raymond Nel | Paarl Gim |
| 6 | Charl Serdyn | HJS Paarl BH |
| 6 | Athi Magwala | Boland Landbou |
| 6 | Heinrich Brendel | Boland Landbou |
| 7 | Muller Uys | Paarl Gim |
| 7 | Keegan Adams | WCSS |
| 7 | Vian Fourie | HJS Paarl BH |
| 8 | Khanya Ncusane | HJS Paarl BH |
| 8 | Francke Horn | HJS Paarl BH |
| 9 | Zak Burger | Paarl Gim |
| 9 | Vusile Dlepu | SACS |
| 9 | Deon Carstens | Boland Landbou |
| 10 | Damian Willemse | Paul Roos |
| 10 | Theo Boshoff | Paarl Gim |
| 10 | Quan Eymann | Brackenfell |
| 11 | Mike Mavovana | Rondebosch |
| 11 | Jade Fortune | Kasselsvlei |
| 12 | Henlo Marais | Boland Landbou |
| 12 | Lyle Hendricks | Paul Roos |
| 13 | Manny Rass | HJS Paarl BH |
| 13 | Aydon Hopley | Paul Roos |
| 14 | Muller du Plessis | Paarl Gim |
| 14 | Urgene Johannes | HJS Paarl BH |
| 14 | Thaakir Abrahams | HJS Paarl BH |
| 15 | Gianni Lombard | HJS Paarl BH |
| 15 | Wian van Zyl | Paarl Gim |
| 15 | Duren Hoffman | Boland Landbou |
| UB | Lubelo Scott | Bishops |
| UB | Labib Kannenmeyer | Wynberg |
@BoishaaiPa: Sharks
@Prlgim: Weet iemand of hy dalk elders al by n Provinsie geteken het?
@PaarlBok: Jip Nog n karakterbou periode in rugbyspeler se lewe Volgens gerugte op spelpeil in al 4 proewe en liga beste maar profesionele arm neem besigheidsbeluit wat reg is maar net kommunikeer moes word Speler in die situasie kan maar net met volgehoue goeie spel sy langtermyn doelwitte bly najaag wat nie n Cravenweek posisie behoort te wees maar professionele rugby vir langtermyn
@Ploegskaar: Ek het lank op klubvlak as flank agter Christiaan se oupa LJ Swart se gat gesak. Hy was ook n loskop stut en alhoewel nie gebou soos n stut nie, wel so sterk soos n bees. Christiaan se pa Chris, was self, op klub vlak. nie te vrot nie. So die gene het mooi deurgekom.
Ja! Voel ook jammer vir Alberts. Ek het n roomer gehoor dat hy selfs n kandidaad was om Cravenspan toe op te skuif. Nou is hy nerens. Baie sad vir die seun en sy familie!
@Prlgim: Ek voel baie jammer vir Zakkie, kon nie glo hy het dit nie gemaak nie.
@Ploegskaar: hehehe – love that criteria.
So more involvement as seen with 2 brothers (Parktown to KES) can be expected. Bit unfair to performing players and those who may have more to offer in long run.
On the other side, I have also seen a strong tendency to select big heavy forwards, who will not be able to perform in future. These boys then get the exposure, but the real future talent sucks on the hind tit (for now). How do the real decision-makers look at these conundrums?
@BoishaaiPa: Nee, meer besorgd oor wat daar met die 2 Grant Khomo spanne aangegaan het. En natuurlik so paar jaar terug toe Tabak & Wyn septer geswaai het met keuses….
@Ploegskaar: Jy wys nou darem duidelik vinger reguit na Elmo toe…
@Kattes-Strofes: Nee hy is nie, baie ongelukkig om dit nie te maak nie, maar dalk ‘n slagoffer van die 13/10 split wat klaarblyklik prioriteit is. Dink steeds dat Christiaan Olivier so vroeg uitgeval het nog ‘n groter gatslag is, yster wat beide kante kan skrum, WP sou kon doen met hom in die toekoms
@BrotherBear: Nee jy lees die skrywe beslis verkeerd. Daar sal voortaan meer oorlegpleging en beter kommunikasie tussen jnr en snr strukture wees. Jnr manne sal nog steeds 90% van jeugspanne kan kies volgens hul huidige kriteria hieronder uiteengesit:
-kinders van oud-spelers en gewese/huidige baadjiedraers is outematiese keuses
-1 tot 2 kinders van skole wat kan help met herverkiesing is ‘n moet, mens gooi die net wyd en alle stemme dra ewe veel gewig, of ons al van die skool of speler gehoor het maak nie saak nie
-die afrigter van ‘n jeugspan kan tot 50% van die span wat hy afrig uit sy eie skool se spelers kies, want hy kan
-die afrigter van ‘n jeugspan kan 1-2 seuns by die skool waar sy tjommie afrig ook kies, want hy kan
Status quo sal dus nie verander nie, maar waar daar spesifieke spelers is wat die unie in die strukture wil hou, sal hulle dit mooi duidelik kommunikeer en sal daar maar plekkie gemaak moet word
@Ploegskaar: Ploegie! Weet jy miskien of Alberts , die stut beseer is?
@Ploegskaar: jou kommentaar klink skrikwekkend. Laat my dink aan George Orwell se “Animal Farm”.
Visioene van PW wat sy vinger swaai?
Stem saam dat sinergie nodig is, maar hoe kontrakte toegeken word is regtig nie optimaal. Sien dat burokrasie (jy mag dit, en mag nie dat) ook nou die septer gaan swaai. Se nie die skole keuring proses is optimaal (glad nie), maar om die “professionele era nou op skool seuns van toe passing te maak is vergesog en bitter gevaarlik. Ook heeltemal te veel baantjies vir boeties.
@Kattes-Strofes: Skole unies kan maar voetjies stamp en hakkies inkap, maar sinergie tussen jnr en snr strukture is nie onderhandelbaar in die professionele era nie. Te veel geld is al in die water gegooi en kwaliteit kontraktering is nou prioriteit. Of die jnr manne nou wil of nie, hulle sal in lyn gebring word, en die Snr manne het nou die meganisme in plek om hulle binne hul baan te hou
Net n laaste ietsie oor kontraktering van skoolseuns. Dit is vandag in hierdie profesionele era nie meer so eenvoudig om te besluit dat jy lojaal teenoor jou tuis unie moet bly nie. Dit is baie anders as in die amateur era. Al die unies doen ook orals werwing en dit is dus geen uitgemaakte saak dat jy al jou Craven en Akademie spelers gaan behou nie. Indien n seun so gelukkig is dat daar ander unies ook in jou dienste belangstel, is daar heelwat faktore wat jy in ag moet neem, en dit is nie net die kort termyn finansiele aspek alleenlik nie.
Ek glo dat n o/18 speler in matriek eers na twee jaar sal weet of hy n loopbaan in rugby kan he. Indien hy dan weer n kontrak aangebied word,en veral as ander unies ook in hom belangstel, is die kanse goed dat hy sukses kan behaal. Kwessies soos gekontrakteerde spelers se ouderdom en vermoens by n unie, wat tans voor hom in die tou staan(en selfs ook na hom gaan bykom) speel n groot rol. Speel geleenthede vir blootstelling is ook belangrik. Toegang tot studies by n goeie instansie, indien die grysstof genoeg is, speel ook n groot rol. Geleenthede om vinnig te vorder, indien die talent daar is, is nog n oorweging. Daarna behoort mens eers die finansiele ,en byvoordele, op die kort termyn , in oorweging te bring.
@CharlesZA: Skoliere kontrakte kan nie n seun na skool verbind tot n unie nie. . Die unies hoop en verwag egter dat hul belangstelling (dmv finalsiele bydraes) tog seuns sal oorreed om by hulle te teken na skool. Van die seuns (en ek sal nie name noem nie) het blykbaar ook skoliere kontrakte by ander unies gehad, waar hulle heelwat finansiele voordele geniet het, maar weer verander en by WP geteken vir na skool.
Ek stem egter saam dat die kies, en bekend making van die spanne meer profesioneel gedoen kon word. Die spanne vir die Suidelike toernooi het uitgelek by verskeie skole. Ek het taamlik pak gevat oor die bekendmaking van die spanne, alhoewel ek duidelik gese het dit is nog nie amptelik nie, en dit toe span A en span B genoem het. Daar is tog verwagtinge geskep, en ek voel ook jammer vir die seuns en hul ouers wat toe weer teleurgestel moes word.
Ek het egter ook agter gekom dat al die land se skole unies, baie daarop ingestel is is om hul onafhanklikheid te behou. Dit sluit natuurlik ook in die kies van die spanne. Wanneer die SA Skole span gekies word, is dit ook maar die skole keurders en Peter Jooste vanaf Sa Rugby se kant wat die kieswerk doen. So ek dink dit gaan nog n tydjie vat voordat die profesionele arm van unies heeltemal die kitaar sal slaan.
@BoishaaiPa: Jy is reg! Vian is gevra of hy bereid is om haker posisie n go te gee. Die ander oorspronklike 2de haker het blykbaar verskriklik gesukkel met sy ingooie in die lynstane. Ek persoonlik dink ook dit sal vir Vian vorentoe baat om as haker te speel. Ek vermoed egter dat hy meestal as flank in hierdie toernooi sal opdraf, en net noodgedwonge haker toe sal skuif.
Iets wat ons uit die oog verloor is dat alle kandidate vir die CW nog leerlinge is en aan opvoedkundige instansies verbonde is – dus wat aan hulle opgedis word moet opvoedkundig wees. Ek is van mening dat keurders die beste span moet kies wat die WP in 2016 moet verteenwoordig. As skoolseuns wat kontrakte met ander unies sluit uitgesluit gaan word uit ‘n CW span dan moet daardie seun toegelaat word om hom verkiesbaar te stel vir sy toekomstige provinsie. Absurd ne. As die WP nou bewus sou word dat Xolisi volgende jaar by die Sharks gaan speel, gaan hulle hom tot die einde van die jaar vir die Stormers gebruik of gaan hulle hom kies in die Vodacomspan ?
@BoishaaiPa: Ek dink jy is reg…ek het dit ook gesien. Ek wonder of hy nie meestal sal flank speel nie en slegs in n noodgeval haker nie. Akademieweek is tog nie ‘n plek om te eksperimenteer in die voorry nie?
@Ploegskaar: Ek glo die Unie moes vooraf aan die keurders opdrag gegee het dat sekere spelers in die span moes wees / reeds gekontrakteer is. Daar is beslis verwagtinge geskep en iemand moenie vertel dat ‘n speler binne ‘n paar weke van nr 1 tot 3 gedaal het nie…..tensy sy spelpeil dramaties gedaal het nie. Op die einde is dit steeds skoolseuns….
Dalk is dit tyd vir die professionele arm om duidelike riglyne deur te gee……vooraf en nie na die tyd nie.
@Prlgim: Uit watter deel van my skrywe maak jy die gevolgtrekking dat ek reken daar nie inmenging is nie? Ek het dit juis pertinent uitgelig, so lees weer versigtig. Ek voel steeds jy lê skuld voor die verkeerde deur, die professionele arm het opgetree (vir ‘n slag) soos dit hoort by ‘n groot Unie, die Jnr beamptes en betrokke partye het soos gewoonlik weer gemaak en breek soos hulle wou. Hierdie slag het die stert egter nie die hond geswaai nie en ek hoop dit skep ‘n president vir die pad vorentoe.
@Kattes-Strofes: Kyk ek reg?. Is Vian Fourie as reserwe haker in die Akademiespan? No 16?
@Prlgim: Is hulle nog kinders as hulle kontrakte geteken het? Voel asof hulle brood aan beide kante gebotter wil he.
@BoishaaiPa: Gaan self vandag n game op SSL van SACS gaan kyk om te sien hoe die mannetjie speel.
Ploegskaar ons mag mos maar verskil en as jy dink ouers en oupas en oumas meng nie in by spankeuses leef jy in droomwereld WP het knolle gewys maar as daar vooraf duudelike beleid was wat alle belangegroepe verstaan het was knolle wys onnodig is my punt Hierdie is nie n Deon vs Zak debat of Gim vs Landbou Dis beginsel debat en ons werk nog met kinders Groete
@Ploegskaar: Toe ek hoor hulle het DC opgeneem in die CW span was ek baie bly..ek het aangeneem hy en ZB sal die scrummies wees..nooit gedink hulle sal laasgenoemde AW span toe drop nie. Groot was my verbasing toe ek dit sien. Die SACS outjie moet regtig baie goed wees. Ek het nog nie veel van hom gesien nie.
@Prlgim: Stop gou die bus…Ek was nie by die proewe nie en het my ook nie uitgelaat die spelpeil daar nie…Ek het wel gese ek dink op spelpeil van wat ek gesien in normale wedstryde was Burger die beste scrummie op vorm.
@pilgrim, @charlesZA: ek stem saam met @pilgrim oor verwagtinge wat by seuns geskep word en die teleurstelling indien iemand wat ooglopend nie so goed as jy speel, bo jou gekies word. Die seuns se verwysings-raamwerk is goeie spel. Dit moet ook tog beloon word. Indien ander reels geld – maak dit bekend aan die spelers.
Alhoewel dit finansiele implikasies kan he, is dit tog redelik selfsugtig om spelers te penaliseer net omdat hulle moontlik na ‘n ander provinsies toe gaan. Na skool sprei baie ouens hulle vlerke om bv. na afrikaanse universiteite te gaan waar die kursus nog iets werd is (bv. Natal of Gauteng na Stellenbosch). Word hulle dan deur Leeus afgeskryf? Of ouens wat van Julle na Tukkies wil kom – word hulle nie gekies vir CW?
Soos @ploegskaar tereg opmerk (of insinueer), politiek in provinsiale skole rugby is redelik siek (meer so in sommige areas as ander). Agente het ongelooflike invloed – ouens wat nie weet se monde sal oophang.
@Prlgim: Die WPRU het vir eens juis professioneel opgetree en verdien in my opinie krediet vir die knolle wat gewys is. Vir te lank het die beamptes in die jeugstrukture jaarliks gemaak en breek soos wat hulle wou en moes die WPRU en WPRI met die gebakte pere sit, sans ‘n gros topspelers wat elders heen is. Keuses is histories gedryf deur skoleverteenwoordigers, skoleafrigters, jeugspanafrigters, ooms, pappas, agente en natuurlik verkiesing stemme en al wat nie op hierdie partye se agendas was nie, was die kies van die beste spelers, langtermyn doelwitte en implikasies vir die Unie se Snr strukture.
Indien ons die professionele arm van die Unie verantwoordelik wil hou vir die stand van die Unie, is dit dus hoogtyd dat die amateur/Jnr arm tot verantwoording geroep word. Onthou, die WPRU het nie daardie oorspronklike twee spanne uitgelek en verwagtinge geskep nie, daar was partye in die Jnr strukture en by skole wat die kar voor die perd gespan het sonder oorlegpleging en die sg. spanne aan hul spelers bekendgemaak het.
@Vleis: Correct!
Mafu and Hluma Zondani (BB CW 2016) were at Dale Junior, got BB ‘scholarships’ at Southdowns and made the trek up north. There’s a third boy whose name has escaped me. Mafu threw in the towel, and decided to go to Grey following his family’s move to PE.
Charles ek stem 100% met jou saam want ons in professionele ere Daarom moet WPRU ook professioneel optree en vir keurders se wie hul gekontrakteerde spelers is en hul gekies moet word CW is lankal afgewater en Unies teken spelers lank voor die week Ek vra weer hoekom dan seum hoop gee net sodat Unie keurders op einde overrule ? Ek vermoed dis hoekom CW en Akademie week die jaar op dieselfde plek is want almal besef gekontrakteerde spelers word gekies en nie noodwendig beste spelers Daar is manne soos Franke Horn wat ook hoort in CW span maar hy het nog jaar om te gaan So my voorstel is daar is beleid rondom proewe en WPRU maak hul gekontrakteerde spelers bekend en almal weet hul is eerste keuses by proewes en geen onnodige verwagtinge word by n speler gekweek en almal weet hoe dit werk
As die WP dink Deon is die beter prospect om pro rugby te speel en dit gaan hulle help om hom te hou as hulle hom vir CW kies dan het hulle mos die regte ding gedoen.
Dit verbaas my actually dat meer unies nie ouens uitlaat wat bt ander geteken het.
Net vir duidelikheid Ek het reageer op n stelling en het toe dieselfde voorbeeld gebruik Ek het niks teen Deon as speler maar voel as daar proewe gespeel word moet dit die nodige gewig dra en wat kan die redes wees dat WPRU kan verskil van keurders ? Dis n no-brainer
@McCulleys Workshop: I suspect that he went from Dale to Southdowns due to a Bulls rugby scholarship – I believe that a Bulls u18 selector (or coach) is at Southdowns. I don’t know why he left Southdowns, but maybe because they do not play against strong opposition – probably at the level of MHS 3rds or 4ths.
Naandse manne Spanne van WP amptelik uit nadat WPRU hul stempel daarop gegee het Deon met WP kontrak en swak proewe(Boishaai pa se woorde want ek was nie daar) bo Zak met goeie proewe (Bo hom gekies deur keurders voor WP span moes goedkeur) en geen WP kontrak Hoekom proewe hou as jou spel van vorige twee jaar jou deurdra of Unie kontrak ? Los dan proewe en moenie verwagtinge by seuns skep om net weer mat onder hul uit te ruk Wat dink jul kenners ?
Lions speel tans goeie rugby, maar is dit die oplossing. Het julle nie nou die dag pak gekry – wat was die telling ? – 50 something. Moet nou net nie vir my kom se dit is nogtans beter as die Stormers, Bulle en Sharks nie. Ons probleem is veel groter as dit.
@Vleis: Thanks Vleis. He smoked us at CW last year and it was a great contest against Palvie, who he certainly outplayed on the day. Why has he changed schools and provinces as much as he has?
@boerboel: Yes the bank gave him everything he wanted to avoid a case against them. Just shows how little you know. Clueless. Seems like it fits you well.
@Ploegskaar: haha lol
@BrotherBear: Huh?!?
@robbie: kyk jy nie LIONS rugby nie?
@robbie: come and watch the Lions CW and AW sides play. Both teams now have less Monnas and much more flair. (Still way too many Monnas though). They slipped a few boys through right at the end – Eish!
@Ploegskaar: Julle brag darrem verskriklik. Mens sou sweer julle is tweede op die rankings. Gelukkig is jy baie subtiel.
@McCulleys Workshop: If memory serves, he was in gr7 at Dale Prep in 2011. Then he went to Southdowns College in Pretoria for gr8, 9 and 10 and played for Bulls u16 GK team in 2014. Then he went to Grey High in 2015, where he made SA Schools as an u17. He’s been injured for most of this year.
@McCulleys Workshop: Mafu only u/18 this year. He made an impact when he came on. His first game time in about 2 months, coming back from an ankle injury. EP forced to make quite a number of changes for the tournament due to injuries
@Ploegskaar: Dis vir my effens rof dat Zak af is tot in akademiespan? Hy het ‘n uitstekende seisoen gehad. Het daar dan iets merkwaardigs teen SWD gebeur? Vat niks weg van Deon nie. Hy is ‘n topklas speler!
Nou is nie regte tyd om verskonings te soek vir die Bokke nie, maar daar is sekere realiteite wat oorweeg moet word :
Na verlede jaar se WB het al die lande spelers verloor wat uitgetree het ens. amper van voor begin. Die 6 nasies reeks het die noordelike lande die kans gegee om nuwe spanne te bou. Die suidelike lande het 14 dae en geen wedstryde kans gekry om spanne te bou nie. Verbaas die uitslae julle ?
Niks kan daaraan gedoen word nie, maar ‘n meer regverdige vergelyking sal na die toer aan die einde van die jaar getref kan word.
Ek is allermins ‘n rugbykenner, maar ek kyk baie rugby as gevolg van my werklose status. Se my net 1 ding : Waar is die tipe rugby te sien wat almal wil he die Bokke moet speel ? Is dit die rugby wat NZ vir 20 minute gespeel het of wat ? Is dit die stampkar rugby wat Engeland Saterdag en Saxons Vrydagaand gespeel het of was dit miskien die geploeter van Wallis en Australie ? Ek weet enigiets is beter as wat ons nou speel, maar bittermin spanne in die wereld speel die magiese, exciting rugby wat alm,al wil he ons moet speel. Help ‘n bietjie !
@McCulleys Workshop: He was under 17 last year.
@BoishaaiPa: Hy is dalk volgende jaar ‘n Oakdaler, mens weet nooit, maar ons sal hom nie kan claim nie.
@Kattes-Strofes: Awesome
@Ploegskaar: Maar net hier tussen ons…Lyk my julle raak nou die scrummie fabriek in die WP…omtrent die 4de of 5 de CW scrummie vanaf Boland die laaste 6 jaar!
@Oakdale supporter: Julle gaan maar sukkel om n o/13 CW kaptein te kry of hoe?..lol
@BoishaaiPa: Ek kan mos nooit krediet vir so iets vat nie, maar ek is trots op ons 3 CW spelers en 2 Akademie spelers, veral Wax wat kaptein ook is van laasgenoemde
@Ploegskaar: Vat die krediet!..Ek gee dit min genoeg!
Ses Boishaai spelers in die Grant Khomo span, insluitend die kaptein. Nog n verdere sewe in die Grant Khomo XV span. Paul Roos ook goed verteenwoordig met 5 spelers in die Grant Khomo span en nog 4 in die Grant Khomo XV span.
Baie geluk ook aan al die verkose seuns, en hul gesinne, wat opgeneem is in die 2 spanne!!
@Kattes-Strofes: Oakdale het vanjaar Cw, AW en GK kaptein in SWD spanne.
@odie15: Jip! Die spanne is amptelik uit.
@Frik: What the deal with Mafu, I thought he was u18 last year?
@BoishaaiPa: Jip! Jy is reg! Ek voel tog ook dat Deon sy plek verdien het. Sy proewe was nie wonderlik nie, maar hy het hom reeds die afgelope 2 jaar bewys as n klas speler.
Die ander goeie nuus vir ons Boishaaiers is die feit dat die WP se o/13 Craven kaptein, die Grant Khomo kaptein en die o/18 kaptein is almal vanaf Boishaai.
Ek wonder of so iets al ooit by enige skool gebeur het. Ek glo net Grey Bloem kan moontlik met so n prestasie spog. Weet egter nie verseker nie, en bespiegel net! Nietemin!! Baie trots op hierdie prestasie.
@BoishaaiPa: Waar sou my opinie nou ooit enige impak hê?
@Grasshopper: Not sure. But I still maintain that Kriel needs to get his chance at 15.
@Kattes-Strofes: is this finally official…
@Djou: Hart is a clueless tub of lard who deserved what he got
@Kattes-Strofes: Lyk my Ploegie se gemoan het nie op dowe ore geval nie!..
Baie geluk aan al die spelers, en hul ouers, wat gekies is vir die WP spanne. Die Cravenweek span toon net twee veranderinge van die groep wat oorspronklik gekies is vir die Suidelike toernooi.
Een hiervan was ook noodgedwonge, met die dat die veelsydige Wiaan van Zyl ongelukkig n ernstige arm besering opgedoen het. Quan Eymann, die onbekende loskakel van Brackenfell, wat ek so kwaai gepunt het op hierdie blog, is welverdiend opgeneem in die span, na n puik toernooi.
Die ander verandering is op scrummie, maar Deon Carstens nou gekies is in die span. Baie rugby mense, insluitend die uwe, het dit egter verwag!
Salmaan Moerat, Boishaai se kaptein, is dan ook gekies as kaptein. Die Blou Trein is goed verteenwoordig met 8 spelers in die Craven span en nog 4 in die Akademie span. Baie geluk aan julle almal! My ander span Brackenfell, het ook benewens Eymann, nog 2 spelers in die Akademie span. Well done ook aan julle en jul coach, Corne Kannemeyer!
@Playa: Gelant is the future at the back, when will he be fit again?
@Playa: I don’t know spoke to player after match said they were trying few things in match that wasn’t working.
@Grasshopper: @odie15: I am done with Willie. I cannot fathom why he maintains this running towards the touch line business. Commbrinck had to work hard for what should have been a basic try in that first try. Willie must thank his lucky stars for that missed tackle which led to him (finally) running straight and putting Combrinck away
On Whiteley – exactly what the doctor ordered. With the benefit of hindsight, maybe AC should have stuck to his guns, not pick overseas based players, and let Flo and Duane get some rest over this period. They look like they desperately need it.
On Strauss – I am a bit concerned at how he vanishes when the chips are down. It happened in the 1st test as well. An example of how he tends to drift away from the game was when he was tapped by Faf while he was at the back of a stagnant mall…he totally missed that communication and was still showing the ball when Faf had long gone waiting for the pop…it eventually came but by then the Irish had already seen what was going on and the move was halted. I saw Whitelely ‘whisper’ some advice to him on occasion. I’ll try not to read too much into that, but I am concerned about our captain’s ability to lead for a full 80. I’ll give him time though.
@BOG: Jirre…..Oom Danie must be turning in his grave….
@BOG: At the moment, I think we really around 6th of 7th. I think Wales, France & Argies will beat us. Your trinations with Nambia and Zimbabwe not too far off it seems..Go Impalas!!
@odie15: Agreed on all points. Sergeal Pietersen also had a good outing on Friday night. That Saxons side had some serious experience in it. Jaco Kriel has to start, maybe bring in Nizaam Carr for Kolisi. Kitshoff should maybe start too.
@Grasshopper: Im “out of circulation”, so to speak- enjoying summer. What is the state of SA rugby? Was my concern of 2 years ago, misplaced, given the fact that Ireland is in SA, virtually with their “B” team? Where would you put SA in the world ranking? I see that the IRB have them at 4th, but is that a true reflection of their abilities?
@Grasshopper: let’s just remember this was a test vs Ireland. I think we need to acknowledge after a RWC year players in UK and France have had no quality recovery period since Dec 2014. DV looks particularly fatigued. Having said that I wouldn’t mind JK in this weekend. My biggest hope is that AC realises Ackerman/Lions style of play is better than any other train of thought. Combrinck mindset changed the game his running lines and aggression/speed was fresh. I am not a Mvovu fan and think JP is slow as well. Would like Skosana an opportunity other side of the field. The injection of Combrinck gave Willie direction who was drifting across the field first 40 min. The tight 5 is a worry outscrummed a number of times. I see PSDT head sticking out. You can’t scrum like that no power surely his shoulders should be under props arise checks…
@odie15: I can only hope the boys will take that second half going into Craven Week
@Frik: apologies that the score was a bit inaccurate for your liking. Yes second half EP played better.
@McCulleys Workshop: The pulling of the rabbit out of the hat wasn’t down to anything Strauss did, it was the injection of speed, precision and passion of hungry Lions players. Strauss is under pressure as a player, he is not performing well, getting by with 5/10 performances. Marx or Bizzie need to start soon, which means Strauss will fall away as captain. Vermeulen and Flouw are not fully fit, they seem lethargic. Point is form needs to be rewarded and this weekend coming AC has a chance to do so..
@Grasshopper: If you read BHP’s post 300, he says Strauss was still captain at the end, therefore who are you comparing him to on the day as a captain, as there was no other? He was captain of the side that turned it around to win a game that we were trying to lose. I think time will tell whether he is a great national captain, and whether this squad can do the business. It just seems that we have been at too many cross roads too often in SA rugby. Either a coach that is loyal to a province or style (boom bash) or backing players who have lost their edge with so many players knocking on the door for international selection.
@BoishaaiPa: Yes, but who plays are Test level? Our best Super rugby players? Everyone bangs on about it being a different level, but someone has to play at that level….
@Grasshopper: This is test level rugby..next level. I know plenty of great Super rugby players who faded into nothing come test rugby…and this is as you say only a second string Irish side…The true test will be with the RC against AB’s and Wallabies.
@BoishaaiPa: Wait, haven’t these subs proved themselves many times over for the Lions? Are the Lions not our best franchise team?
@Grasshopper: Therefore I asked, because I am def not smoking something!…I tend to keep hallelujahs in check before someone is properly tested…Lets first see if these subs that might start on Sat will bring a big change to first half play.
@BoishaaiPa: I do read your posts properly. We have to start with the same intensity as we finished this week. I also think some of the A team youngsters put their hands up on Friday night, RG and Jason played well. Marx did too so should be on the bench at least. If we lose in PE, then we should definitely be renamed to the Impala’s or something more appropriate…
@Grasshopper: Do you even read the posts proper?…Exactly what I am saying….The only difference to last weeks lost was Combrink..The rest were all same subs…just a little longer playtime and more urgency… Lets see if a changed Bok side (as we all expect it to be changed) does much better in PE. You must look at all results before you start to sing praises. Next week there is no altitude to help us. I sure hope we turn it around and play from the start as we did in the last 20 on Saturday.
@BoishaaiPa: That boom down there must to good, Transkei Reds? This is a 2nd string Irish side who battled in the 6 Nations! Alarm bells should surely be ringing big time! The run on side is kak!
@Grasshopper: Vermeulen did not have a good test..Whiteley played well when he came on and was better, Strauss was still captain till the end, I did not see a change in captaincy. Boks had their backs to the wall and played out of their socks. Irish were out on their feet in the last 20 and missed 12 tackles.
I will reserve further comments until next week.
@McCulleys Workshop: No, Combrinck was an animal. Warren prefers to avoid contact and run for space. I thought Ruan was amazing and House have their latest Bok :-)
@Grasshopper: I assume you mean WW is an animal? Both DV and FLow seemed a yard off the pace, and one couldn’t blame the difference in play between Southern and Northern Hemisphere nor the end of a long NH season as Ireland falls into that category.
@McCulleys Workshop: Combrinck was standout though, what a difference he made. I was in the stadium and the scenes were ugly, booing and calling for the end of the Bok as a national symbol. He is an animal and should have at least 20 Bok caps by now…
@Grasshopper: I concede, WW out played him on Sat, no debate.
Now if bloggers still think Adriaan Strauss is our best captain & Vermeulen is better than Whiteley they smoking some awesome green stuff!
@chief: All the teams played, from u/16, Academy teams, as well as Craven week. Sure WP won u/16 match as well, under correction as my interest was with u/18’s
@Boerboel: Chris Hart is a personal friend of mine. You know nothing about him. He is one of the most “unracist” people on earth. Rather ask why Standard Bank wanted to settle. And why the HRC is not taking it further. It was a classic case of someone attacking an innocent person to further a career. And he is running his own company – and inundated with work.
@Frik:
Is this only Craven Week or what happend with the U16’s?
@odie15: your info not correct, the real score was WP 52 EP 15.
Score a bit misleading as to what happened in the match. WP in front half-time 45-5. WP managed only one try in the second half with EP scoring two.
EP a bit in awe in the first half but played much better in the second.
For what it’s worth..
@Playa: got the scores in for Southern Cape tourney WP 50 EP 0. And WP 49 SWD 12…..believe that’s over now and players return today. Maybe Monday they announce team officially.
@McCulleys Workshop: The contrast- first the civilized and then the opposite. They did say that a private education, is often a waste of money. Racism? Sunshine, when you were but a sparkle in your daddys eye, I opposed racism in sport. My morals have not changed, so I shall continue doing it now.The problem with many, is that their opinions and morals change, along with their personal interests. And if you saw the composition of my family,who I raise as my own and with total disregard for ethnic origin, it would really put that misguided opinion to rest. Otherwise, your “opinion” has absolutely no relevance to me.
@Grasshopper: just spoke to stepson’s father….WP vs EP yesterday at Southern Cape tournament was nightmare revisited 50-0. Play against SWD @ 2pm today.
@BOG: Congratulations, you do have a way with words, but your summation for Robbie makes you sound like an alter boy and certainly to my mind your assessment of yourself and your contribution on the quota debate is inaccurate. You were absolutely racist and condescending without for a moment considering that any other contributor may have a partially relevant point, and to the contrary, bloggers like Playa acknowledged some of the merit of your debate. And when the heat came, you were abusive. I prefer you being abusive, then I know what I’m in for. And by the way, as you may not be aware, in English, a P**s and a Sour Puss are two entirely different things. A habitually gloomy or sullen person is certainly not abusive and sounds accurate.
@robbie: I at least respect the civilized manner of your approach. In essence, my gripe is with political interference in the selection of sporting teams. Unfortunately, there are several here, who cannot argue that point without deviating to issues on the fringe, hence my referral to migration matters. But if you were to trace back my comments, you will see what I mean (Not that I would recommend that you read all the trash that some have said.@pietretief: Jy neuk voort met “negatief”. Ek het mos vir jou mooi verduidelik dat daar geen ruimte is vir hierdie misleidende term nie. Laat ek dit aan jou verduidelik aan die hand van n paar praktiese voorbeelde. n Dokter is nie “negatief” as hy n terminale siekte dianoseer nie. Ook nie n weerman wie n koue front of droogte voorspel nie. So ook n ekonoom wie se dat n resessie voorle nie. Hulle se dit aan die hand van die inligting tot hulle beskikking- dws die AANWYSERS. Dieselfde geld vir die politiek (En hier praat ek van die “breer” politiek, inluitend hoe dit sport beinvloed) Inteendeel, ek is oortuig dat hierdie term, negatief, doelbewus gebruik word om monde te snoer.
Bog, thanks for all the information regarding our country’s future. We cannot gloss over it and we must face reality as well. However, what pisses me off about white South Africans (myself included) nowadays is that we love to stand on the river bank and piss into the water of confusion without at least once trying to do or suggest something positive. Come on man, we all come from some form of settler stock and we’re made of sterner stuff. We may be rebuffed, but at least let’s try to make a positive input in our country OR as you say move on somewhere else.
@BOG: Dis vir my net snaak dat die mees negatiefste mense oor ons land die is wat hier weg is en dan almal wil oortuig dat hulle dit ook moet doen.
Miskien het my voorouers ook weg gehol soos die huidige emigrante of dalk het hulle na ‘n donker afrika gekom, nie soos die huidige emigrante nie. Indien hulle nie gekom het nie was ek dalk in europa en het jy niks gehad om oor negatief te wees nie. Leef met jou besluit en hou op om negatief te wees oor ons besluite hier……..jy is dalk nie die enigste met ‘n paar sente nie.
@pietretief: Sover dit emigrasie aangaan, weer ter inligting. Dit lyk asof jy n armoede daarvan het. Dit verg baie moed en geld en vaardighede om te emigreer. Inteendeel, as jou voorouers soos jy gevoel het, dan het jy nou met jou gat in Europa gesit. Of was jou voorouers n uitsondering dat hulle wel weg gehardloop het?
@pietretief: Ek het vir Beet gevra, maar om een of ander rede, wil hy nie. Sover ek weet , lewr hulle mense op met die hele spektrum van opinies. Wat ek se is 100% my eie opinie. En as jy van die begin af gevolg het wat ek gese het en nie ter elfde ure n straaltjie kom pie het nie, sal jy weet dat ek lief is vir my land en rugby, en om daai rede,hou ek nie daarvan as kriminele wie hulle voorhou as politici, hulle vuil neuse daarin steek nie. Blykbaar is jy daarmee tevrede. Ek het dit veroordeel in die ou bedeling, en ook nou.My kop is bo die grond. Maar ek merk jy omseil my antwoord oor sg. “negatiwiteit”. Jy is n slagoffer van propaganda.
@BOG: As jy so gelukkig is hoekom is jy op ‘n Suid Afrikaanse blog, dalk verlang jy meer as wat jy dink, emigreer maar net ‘n groot woord vir weg hardloop. O ja terloops as jy hier iets se vra jy en gee jy jou opinie. Trek liewers daai Bloemfontein hempie uit en laat Beet vir jou een of ander skool daar naby jou aantrek. Daai skool in Bloem is TROTS, SUID AFRIKAANS.
@pietretief: Ek kan nie onthou dat ek jou opinie gevra het nie, maar terwyl jy jou ongevraagde opinie aanbied, laat my toe om jou net reg te help. Binne die diskoers van politiek/administrasie/sport, is daar nie ruimte vir n term soos “negatief” nie- slegs waarheid wat gebaseer is op realiteite en aanwysers. As daardie waarheid krap, haal eerstens jou kop uit jou agterent uit, en as dit steeds krap, kry hulp. Mense hardloop nie weg nie, hulle gebruik hulle koppe met die inligting voor hulle, en emigreer. Ek probeer jou hoegenaamd nie beinvloed nie. As jy gelukkig is, goed vir jou. Daar was ook n paar wie agter gebly het in Kenia, Tanzanie, Malawi, Zambie, Zim, Angola, Mosambiek—@boerboel: Ek sou verwag het dat met al die goeie advies wat ek vir jou gegee het, jy teen hierdie tyd jou kop sou kon gebruik. Daar is hulp vir jou- by Onderstepoort
@pietretief: stem piet-fit in or f-off boggie
vra jou vriend george soros of jy sy kantore kan skoonmaak
@BOG: ons wil rugby praat, skole rugby verkieslik, jy “like” nie ons landjie nie, dis ok dis jou keuse maar hou op om so negatief te wees man. Elke man maak sy keuses en almal kan of wil nie uit SA uit hardloop nie. Van ons bly eindlik baie lekker hier in die land.
@boerboel: Berading vir jou- by Onderstepoort.
SA nou n tweederangse rugbynasie- Dr Eugene Brink.
rugby.maroelamedia.co.za/2016/06/14/sa-nou-net-n-tweederangse-rugbynasie/
@BOG: boggie-om te erken dat jy n probleem is die eerste stap in die regte rigting-wd
hoop hulle het internet by die “instansie” dat jy vir ons kan laat weet hoe dit gaan
trots op jou
@Speartackle: Dis goed en wel om stront te praat in n ligte luim, maar wanneer jy dit ernstig begin doen, dan is dit n probleem en het mens berading nodig
@BOG: Moet geen twak vat
Go for a groom at the pet parlour. A well groomed animal generally performs better and both of you are in desperate need of that.
Bog- means nonsense in afr–poetic isnt it??
@boerboel: No, but its quite clear in English.
@boerboel: What dont you understand about “go and take a nap in your fools paradise”? Fool or paradise?
for our English speaking bloggers-do you guys know what bog means in afrikaans?
boggie-ask your buddy George Soros to short the Boks
@boerboel: Take a nap in your little fools paradise. You seem to think everyone else is naive. Reflection of your gross ignorance@Grasshopper: There is not a SINGLE reason why the same wont happen to the rugby in SA as what happened in Zim. First the currency collapse, then the outflow and the rest is history. But to be fair, it began before Coetzee, and he will soon discover that he is just a useful tool.
what bs boggie?-never denied Hart,s statement-just laughed at his/your naivity
do you know george soros?–further signs of “illusions of grandeur”
sad little man
@Grasshopper: The writer is correct on some of the facts.
I agree:
1. Coetzee needs a good attacking mind in his team. It was a concern I had when he got selected.
2. The current noise involving quotas will have an effect on the team
However, is it fair to blame Stick on the backline’s uninspiring performance? When last did the Boks have a backline that made one jump up and down with excitement? My recollection takes me to 2007 when Eddie Jones took charge of the backline. Anyone know who the guy before him was? Secondly, during Meyer’s tenure, I don’t recall Ricardo Laubscher getting criticism for the backline’s lack of vision and creativity. Stick, I agree is not the best man for the job, but backlines with no vision, no creativity is a South African problem. Look no further than our super rugby teams (baring the Lions maybe). Not fair to point the finger at stick.
Secondly, I wish he had provided a rugby reason for why he thinks Mvovo should not be in the team. He does it well with Kolisi and JP. I am sorry, the age thing just doesn’t work. Habana was at last year’s world cup at age 32, that never seemed to be a problem. Combrick in place of JP I fully support. Mvovo was probably our only performing backline player last Saturday, and to have him as an experienced campaigner alongside Combrick would be value well added in my view. Writer grasping at straws to make a point me thinks.
I get that his point was simply to outline the race issue – but our rugby problems are more than just that.
@boerboel: Every time you say something, you BS. You questioned the validity of Harts report and its here for all to see. And I believe he is doing nicely, “without a job” with the banksters. And I know very well what a hedge fund is and if I require advice on that, I shall ask Soros. I wont even ask you on how to mow the lawn. So, go and wash the porridge off your mouth and make yourself presentable for the cat
On rugby matters, this will be very hard for some to take but it’s the brutal and honest truth about SA rugby at the moment; http://www.thesportfreak.com/rugby/south-african-rugby-crossroad-end-near/
goggie-never denied that Hart made this ridicilous statement-no wonder he cant find a job-are yoo short of the Rand currently?
nice 395% return in 2 and 1/2 years-i suggest start a hedge fund-prop up GCB Player fund
i can explain a hedge fund if needs be
@boerboel: Surprised that you would show your face here. You first foolishly question the existence of the article, and when I present it to you, you attack Chris Hart.His opinion is shared by most credible commentators. He resigned from a racist bank , supposedly for making some remark, which was factually correct. Another employee, of another ethnic group, made a far worse comment, but was ignored. Your first challenge-of many, is to familiarise yourself with the term, racism. Clearly, you have absolutely no idea what it is. You have made many absurd remarks and each one, has been proven to be void of truth. Reality? You are a clown.@Grasshopper: You rightly refer to the flight of capital. It will be far greater than most expect. Fund managers are compelled to divest by law to protect their investors. Looking at the history in Africa, and the views of other, commentators, R60 is a possibility. When, not if, SA is downgraded to junk, its very likely that the IMF will become involved, with many stringent conditions attached. If they decline, we WILL have a repeat of Zim with hyperinflation in which case R100+ /USD is possible. Read RW Johnson s scenario on this. And he says less than 2 yrs.
@BOG: I arrived back in SA’s in Sept 2012 and got 13 rand per pound, it’s now 22. So the rand has almost halved in value in 4 years. Also those 4 years have been relatively stable except Nene-gate. Once there is a credit rating downgrade to junk in Dec, I would expect massive capital flight. The gov will try to protect the rand with more interest rate increases, I’m expecting a good 1% in the next 6 months, 2% in the next 12 months. By 2020 realistically the Rand could be 35 to 1 vs the pound, but probably closer to 40. All international imports & brands will be too expensive to buy so those brands will withdraw investment too. Cars will be exhorbitant! It’s a horrible picture with food & petrol prices too! Eish!
Boggie. I presume your next quote will be? Siener v Rensburg?
Chris Hart is an obese unemployed economist fired by hie previous employer for racist comments. R60 to the $. Stick to fabricating grey folklore. Leave the intelligent conversation to us who are in touch with reality
@McCulleys Workshop: In fact, what he may have suggested, was that we all remain, and join the inevitable revolution and have some fun. Just my “opinion”, but most, with common sense, will disagree with me.
@McCulleys Workshop: Draw your own “conclusions”- as they did elsewhere in Africa. Whatever I say, will be latched on as supposedly “racism”. You remind me of a very skinny person, having to jump around in a shower to get wet. Its called “ducking and diving” the reality.
@BOG: Gob, Do you think his relevance hinges on too many Blacks and we should leave?
@Grasshopper: After that, the ratio increases exponentially,ie 1:200 in another 12 yrs; 1:300 in a further 8 yrs ect.ect. Il leave it for each persons own conclusion. No matter how I respond to your question, here, someone will distort it to accuse me of “racism”. Clem Sunter used these figures to talk about a “ticking time bomb”. Im sure it has relavance to rugby as well and discussions around it.
@BOG: So whites in SA are an endangered species…
@Grasshopper: Not sure if he is an economist- rather a “futurist”, whatever that entails. But in a lecture in the last 6 months or so, he gave us a look into the demographics of the near future- he used someone elses study. About 18 months ago, it was announced that half of the SA population, is now under 25 yrs. In less than 2 yrs, 1/3 of the population, will be under 18 and in less than 15 yrs, every group of 100, between ages 0-24 yrs, will consist of 91 black, 7 “coloured”, 1 Indian and 1 white. Regarding economic predictions, Chris Harts is very much in line with that of RW Johnson, Cees Bruggemans, Magnus Heystek and international observers like Marc Faber and Jesse Columbo.
@BOG: What’s Clem Sunters view?
@McCulleys Workshop: And sure, the patient who was diagnosed with a terminal illness this morning, COULD be healed by tomorrow. The cold front or drought predicted by the weather man, COULD turn into a heat wave and a flood and the recession predicted by the economist, COULD end in a 15% growth of the GDP. But right now, the INDICATORS show otherwise. Any other absurd comparisons? And in case, you did not read, I responded to Bully, who has since gone into hiding. Chris Hart looked at the INDICATORS and made that prediction, and most of the credible commentators seem to agree with him, unless of course, they have their heads up their— Or if they see the writing on the wall, but hoping that they are reading it incorrectly. Where do you fit in?
@BOG: And LB could be competitive in KZN, and Elvis could be alive, and the stock markets everywhere could go up, oh and scumbag Soros could be manipulating the UK out of the Eu so he can short the pound, and the quota system in rugby could have been introduced to finally force Afrikaans families to leave SA. Any other coulds?
@McCulleys Workshop:
ja.
@boerboel: Well, that puts your level of ignorance into perspective and I thought that it might be confined to rugby matters. But alas, I was wrong- its widespread. Up your knowledge foxy. “The ZAR could hit R60 to $ by 2019. businesstech.co.za/news/business/123593/the-rand-could-hit-r60-to-the-dollar-by-2019-chris-hart/
Bog
calling the Rand 60 vs the dollar according to Chris Hart. Up the medication boggie. Puts his other statements into perspective????
Back to the heading of this thread. I was hugely critised by the WP top brass for naming the two teams that were chosen for the matches in the southerns tournament in Oudshoorn.
This happened, in spite of the fact that I mentoined that the teams are not yet officially named the Craven and Academy teams.
However,other web sites have now named the teams as official.
A letter from WP has been sent to all schools , notifing them that the teams will only be announced on Monday 21 June.
I heard that another 5 players have been added to the original group who will go to Oudshoorn. Also confirmed with Wian van Zyl’s dad that he will be out for 4 months due to arm injury.
@vandieplaas: You up early milking the cows?
@Playa: You can not never corect a wrong with a wrong. You stop the wrong and giff EVERBODY a change. You develop the group that was wronged, but you don’t wrong another group because you were wronged.Young poeple how wasn’t even born in apartheid are now being wronged. If the ANC keep on this path, we will end up with the same sporting bands ext. as in apartheid, because all international sport bodies don’t allow this sort of race based thinking.
@Playa: No scores?
@Stier: I’m pretty sure Border and EP can manage a11/11 split.
@BOG: I apologise for insulting you if saying you have a funny way of respecting differing views.I must however point out that you fail to apologise when someone has told you that are offended by something you said.You have instead called them ignorant to say the least.
Hudson Park beat St Andrews today.Two weeks ago they beat Queens.I’m sure that has everything to do with college and QC rather than a good HP side hey?
WP have pulled their under 13 B side from the Sasol week that takes place during the July holiday. Only WP have managed a team with a 11/11 split non of the other provinces did. So now province decided that if the other unions don’t pick sides on the 11/11 split they will not send a team to Sasolburg. So these WP boys will not get their provincial colors. The kids are very unhappy and WP have dropped these boys badly. The boys what to play they don’t care who the other teams pick. Surely there must be a better way to deal with this?
@vandieplaas: I agree with you.That should be the starting point.My only argument here is on the guys that have made it through the ranks.I am whole heartedly against quotas at craven week level for example and I cannot even accept it as a necessary evil.Different story at professional
@Playa: That is the problem, qoutas like you admit yourself will not improve rugby or get rid of racism, it will probably do the exact opposite. If racism is as bad in rugby as you suggest then that should be shorted out.
One thing I have noticed in my sport is that when you make people aware of a benefit to them by helping black disadvantage community’s people tend to help. Once they see the talent and hard work believe me they will fight for their athlete no mater what his ccolou, and I have seen that two.
Unfortunately there will probably always be racist and racism not just in rugby or our country but the world. We must find ways to tackle the racism in our country and to be honest education seems like the only way you can deal with it.
Sometimes we see things and completely misread the situation. Therefor I don’t like talking about players that was dropped for so or so and therefore it’s proof this or that. Like I pointed out Wakefield and Watson at the WP and Kings aren’t the biggest racist and even they don’t have a first team that fit the 50% qouta.
Whatever our rugby does should get rid of the racism and not make our rugby weaker and then we still sit with the racism.
@Playa: You mean to tell me that you dont know what an insult is? You seem to understand when, according to you, I do it, but when your buddies do it , you have discretionary challenges. But lets leave it. Im out of the country at the moment- so no TV for me. You were pleased with the cricket performance , but how did the rugby go against the Saxons and the Irish? I know that Ireland were forced to send virtually their “B” side, but Im sure they must have at least been some test for the Boks? You have a score for me?
@Playa: This past week I had to try to explain to a 16 year old flanker who was just dropped from his province’s Grant Khomo side the reason why quotas are in place. The black lock was just not performing to expectations and the selectors had to replace him with a white lock, but to keep the numbers right, this boy had to make place for a black flanker. He is a well-mannered and respectful boy, and said that he understood. What goes on in his heart, I am not so sure about. Racism needs to be tackled at every level. I don’t have access to people in the upper echelons of our sport, but I can appreciate your stance that there are racially biased officials there. I cannot for one moment even imagine myself in your shoes and to experience what you have experienced in a once white dominant rugby world.
But is quotas, at every representative level, the answer?
@Playa: I do get your pionts in other posts. All i’am saing is that transform the local black school sport programs, build from the there, we allready have a cricket team with 8 coloured players winning Aus, a rugby team with lots of black talent on merit ext. Why do we what to labal these players as qoutas. It’s because of ANC ministers wanting 8-1-half half on all levels in country, without any regard. If we want to go and do lawnbowling, even if 95% of players are white, they must stop playing because they won’t go to olimpics under this goverment .
@Stier: @vandieplaas: Build from the bottom yes!I completely agree.But that’s not what I’m talking about here.I am talking about fairness in treatment at the top.It doesn’t exist in SA.It never did.Sits Polish is starting today.At the world cup last year he was announced on the bench.Alberta got injured and he was leap frogged by Porter Steph…a lock!!!!Leaving an inform Mapoe and taking a half dead Jean de Villiers is dispecable.This is where you tell me this happens in rugby and it happens to white players as well.
Why are Tera Mthembu and Sbura Sithole playing Currie Cup when Lambie waltzes straight into the Super rugby team straight from injuries?Those are the injustices quotas aim to address.Wrong as it may be,we have that problem regarding treatment.Grassroots development cannot address that.
So I think Marx is better than Mbonambi and Scares?Yes!Hell yes!I am man enough to admit such.Very rare for white film to see unfair treatment towards a black film for what it is.You rather find a more suitable excuse to your psyche.Empathy!I was a victim of racial abuse just this afternoon.I’ve lost count of those in my 34 years of life.You might tell me I’m overreacting….But have you been in my shoes?
@vandieplaas: I’ll have difficulty responding to you because you have completely misunderstood me.
@Playa: If a system don’t change things at Mmvovo’s old school then why do it? But thanks atleast now you admit that qoutas won’t improve or change any attitudes.
Like vannieLaeveld has understood, you need to built the sport from the bottom up not the other way around. You need to educate people and then you have to coach. Do those things well and the rest will follow. I have done it on a small scale with eight schools and within two years my schools won 50% of all the medals at junior age group in our provincial championship. Our previous best was 15% of all the medals. It takes hard work commitment and some passion and you can get anything done. If I and one good friend can do that I can promise you saru and government could do a million times more and better.
And that is the way I think you improve lives and transform rugby. You have to improve things at Mmvovos old school for all the kids and not just helping one Mmvovo with a qouta system. Everybody should have a chance to improve or maybe with a qouta system one Mmvovo is enough?
The problem is everybody wants to be the guy in the meetings talking like a big shot but nobody wants to go outside take the kids and teach them how to play the game properly. Like my Russian friend noted ” South African sport people are blinded by their ignorance”.
@Roger: Last week it was Glenwood were crap etc, now it’s KES lost because they young. How is this the one Glenwood lock last week is 16. Half our 1st team is back next year so also very young. JJ the 2,05cm and 120kg lock that didn’t play last week just turned 17 and in grade 11…
Well done Monnas – was 21-17 at half time I believe and the Reds got blown away in the 2nd half.
@Grasshopper: more than 20 players out injured in the Open squads – the 2nd team played in the Monnas festival at the start of the season and beat EG Jansen, Helpmekaar and Florida so they are not too shabby. As I said very young team this year. Sometimes you win and sometimes you learn.
Congrats Hooit – well done to the Wit Bulle!
@Playa:@BOG: @VanniLaeveld: Playa, as you are for the ANC model for transformatiom: out of 10 – 8 black, 1 white , half coloured , half indian. In all sectors of society. Doesnt matter what the demographics of a provinces, or of a sport is. By the way, what is the demographic of the people playing rugby? Isn’t that the reason way there isn’t more black player in the springboks, compared to soccer? The minister aren’t happy with the team as it is today, what will your team look like, as a rugby person for todays test? Keep in mind to stick to the demographics as used by anc.
@Playa: But they are the Red Army, have Red passion and blow sides away by 50. Wasn’t that the chant last week vs St Johns?
KES 17 – Monnas 55…
@Grasshopper: Or KES just have a weaker 2nd team than Monnas and Glenwood maybe?
@BOG: Insult???Really???Amen!I am speechless.
@VanniLaeveld: I was a member of the UCT Transformation Committee at the time.The data was presented at a WP meeting.I will check if I can access it and I’ll send to you.
@Grasshopper: Jeppe 2nd also beat them at their festival
@Roger: KES 2nds getting a right pasting! 7-45. Glenwood 2nds beat them 29-17…no depth….
Simple, without infrastructure and nutrition at the schools, the responsibility of (effective ) GOVERNMENT, by the way, no amount of transformation, or development, will succeed.@Playa: Thanks for the lecture and inconsistent advice. When I reciprocate an insult, you are quick to offer advice, but when your little buddies insult me, you respond with little “green men” and silly, smiley faces.
@playa Is those 2013 data available for public viewing? If it is true, it will surely have a profound impact on my views of the quota system.
@stier You argue the case against quotas very well. Your are basically saying that they are trying to solve the problem with a top-down approach, which will never work and are creating new racists. Rugby is being kept going in SA by thousands of teachers at ex Model C schools, primary and high school, who spend hours every week coaching with no or little financial reward. If you are appointed as a teacher in these schools, you are told by the headmaster that you will teach gr.8 to 10 maths, coach the 14B rugby side in winter and the 15A cricket side in summer. No point to argue. This culture does not exist in the majority of rural and township schools. Teachers there are used to leave with the final bell and Saturdays are private time. Only the government has the ability/power to deal with this, if they can tame Sadtu.
Without the foundation, no amount of quotas will solve the problem.
@BOG: You have a funny way of respecting differing views then.
@Stier: I’m sorry but you miss the point. Quotas wont improve Mvovo’s old school, and neither will they remove racism. If you read BOG’s posts you will realise why they are there. I cannot change your mentality, that is up to you. What’s your alternative? That is what I am interested in. We need to correct some wrongs.
@Scrum5: Ek sal sover gaan om te se dat selfs voorspelers die BB moet vermy.@Playa: I certainly encourage debate and respect different views, providing those views are in touch with reality. Speaking of Zuma, the poor soul is taking a lot of blame for things which began their slide 20 yrs ago. Zumas legacy still lies ahead and for what its worth, that is frightening. The secret lies in diplomacy- if you send someone to hell, and they look forward to the trip, then you have succeeded. However, a point is reached in a debate, when continuation is a waste of time. Then you resort to having fun.
@BOG: Funny you talk about debating. You talk at people, and are intolerant of differing views. Very much what today’s ANC is. I’d swear you are the pale version of Jacob Zuma.
@Roger: I wonder if Lincoln would have opted for war if there where a alternative option to solve the problem?
In this case there is alternative options to quotas but it will involve hard work and some effort, but let’s settle for “lesser evil” or “slapgat” option.
So quotas will get rid of racism? Didn’t realize it was that easy why didn’t we try quotas much sooner. Oh I remember we did and it didn’t work, but this time it will work? What is that thing about doing something twice and expecting a different outcome the second time round?
Only one question should be asked will quotas improve the rugby at Mmvovo’s old school or will they still take 100+. I can’t see how quotas will change that score so why wast the time, maybe growing a pare and improving the coaching in his old school will improve their rugby and give them more chances.
It is hard to believe Wakefield and Cheeky Watson are such racists that the don’t do anything against it in their unions and keep supporting only white players.
I am sorry but non of you have provided any explanation on how quotas will change the level of rugby at Mmvovo’s old school or in Springbok rugby. So therefor I have to except that the only motivation for quotas is based on race and is therefor racist and nothing else but a new kind of “apartheid system”. And that sir is how you plant the seeds for racism in the next generation.
@Grasshopper: Please comment on my WSS-Andile story. I have been waiting for your answer. I gave my view on your Johnny vs Vuyo case
@Bog My opmerking oor Ek wag op jou beledigings is tong in cheek omdat ek sien jyt al verskeie ander manne se bene lekker afgekap op die blog!!Ons verskil nie al wat ek voel is dat spelers soos WSS moet mooi besin oor waarnatoe hul na skool moet gaan want dit kan hul loopbaan maak of sink!
@chief: I did say it and for that reason I was called a p–s.
@Scrum5: Jy moet maar gaan kyk wanneer ek beledig, en dan, nie eers altyd nie. Dit is gewoonlik in reaksie op-wanneer ek resiprokeer. Eerstens, ek is nie n kenner van WSS nie. Ek het hierbo bloot verwys na sy vroee “loopbaan” waar hy eers in die Akademiespan was , maar dat hy nie daardeur van stryk gebring is nie. En voorts dat hy, met die realiteite voor hom, sekere besluite geneem het om sy loopbaan voort te sit. Hy het, maw, nie op n mishoop gaan sit en homself bejammer nie. Ek glo, as jy kyk na sy verlede, sal hy ook hierdie hindernis oorkom. Hoe verskil ons dan?@Roger: What they say about empty vessels, you illustrate so well.
@Bog WSS kon kies en keur na watter provinsie hy wou gaan na skool. In my opinie het die Grey 15 man rugby patroon waarin hy geskool definitief die teenoorgestelde gewees van die stampkarrugby wat die Bulle gespeel het. Tog het WSS die Bulle gekies en ek dink dit was ‘n dom besluit van hom. Tweedens het die Bulle so baie senters geteken na hom wat op die ou einde beter was as hy dat hulle WSS uitgespeel het en hy geforseer was om te skuif Cheetahs toe net om weer speelkans te kry.n Speler met baie meer beserings as WSS wat bly vasbyt het was. Jean de Villiers. As jy ‘n professionele speler wil wees moet jy weet dat beserings so deel van rugby is soos driee druk.
Ek wag op jou beledigings.
Shhhhh Bog – the adults are talking!
@McCulleys Workshop:
Message on 156 is spot on and no supporter may have said so.
@odie15: I beg to differ if he has my genes he will be a big boy and love rugga. Unfortunately he’ll end up playing flank or lock for the bloody Poms…
@Grasshopper: you’ll just have to have a laat lammetjie…..your oldest has no chance. Hehehe but if he’s a grasshopper zero chance!
@Grasshopper: Even the ANC should boycott themselves, because the rubbish they are dishing up now-political opportunism in the extreme, is totally contrary to the document which they themselves, through the communist, Minty, submitted to the UN in 1971
@Roger: You sound a little incoherent? Been using something or is it just your normal Roger Dodger self? Dont suppose you can tell the difference? No wonder that you “fire” your clients- you are delusional. In 10 yrs there wont be any rugby players left in SA, other than a few playing on dusty outcrops like Joburg. As Chris Hart said, if the Rand/USD is 60:1 by 2019, no player worth his salt will remain. And then tailed by your fellow fox terriers !!! What a pathetic exhibition of cowardice.@Grasshopper: No use debating with the blind. Rather play the fool with them as a cat plays with its prey- much more fun. Only the inevitable realities will wake them up, and even then, they would try to move on where they can continue with their destructive behaviour.
@Playa: Agreed, but I didn’t comment about WSS and Andile, that is an isolated story. I look at things from a birds eye view, is BBEEE & Quotas right? NO! My kids had nothing to do with Apartheid why should they be affected? How the rest of the world even allows quotas is a mystery to me. They should boycott us now too as it’s as bad as segregated sport…..
@Grasshopper: ‘Victim’ society you call it…hhhmmm…Mentality needs to change in my view. We need to establish empathy. A situation where when I bring up a William and Andile story, you don’t accuse me of saying William had it easy, but see where I am coming from with regards to why Andile needed to be afforded a fair opportunity. Where instead of me believing all whites are wealthy, I understand why there is what is termed as the ‘wrong side’ of Bellville. Understanding the other side will allow you to see the fault in the ‘clean sheet’ mentality. SA cannot be in a clean sheet. If you understand the other side, and feel AA, BEE, quotas are wrong…and understand that it doesn’t make sense to just say let’s forget the past and just be equal, you will understand the impossibility of that notion, and you will start searching for a middle ground instead.
As for your son. I wouldn’t worry. Whatever his attitude is, and how his generation handles things will depend on what daddy talks about in the house. I have a 5 year old. I too hope that the words quota and BEE and the like will be things he only sees in history books when he is older. (Un)fortunately that largely depends on what you teach our son and daughter.
@Playa: So how long should we have a ‘victim’ society? Just need to know how long this mentality will prevail, 50 years?
@McCulleys Workshop: Sshhh…those things are just perceptions…they aren’t real remember.
@Roger: The issue isn’t only sport but BEEE etc, I just cannot agree with reverse racism, it’s wrong…
@Grasshopper: hopper – with the greatest respect to you and your lightie – perhaps wait a few years to a) see if the little fella is keen on sports and b) if so wait a few more years to see whether he is talented enough to warrant your current stress over quotas. My guess is he will be just fine.
The old man on the other hand ……..
@Stier: Hhahaha!Only half way through the first one.
Hard work favours those in a system that rewards just that.If I’m a flyhalf…let me fight for my place at flyhalf don’t stick me at wing. Funny you mention Hougard.This is the same guy who out of principle refused to be picked at wing because he felt Mvovo was the man for that place and he was a scrummie.
@Roger: lol
I think for me the question is how long does the quota system run? It cannot be indefinite. Until the ‘racist’ administrators leave office. In the past 20 years since I left school I honestly haven’t seen coaches picking on colour but that is only at school level. Changing positions happens all the time, I had to play bloody lock a few times because no-one else wanted too. I did it for the team. Until quotas are removed I just cannot have opportunities taken away from my son…
@McCulleys Workshop: spot on – quotas / previously disadvantaged / advantaged etc is a necessary evil and in ten years we won’t be having these conversations. I’m reminded of Abraham Lincolns comments in the years before the civil war when all and sundry were warning him of the coming disaster of secession and he said the greater evil of slavery must be destroyed and if that means war with the South then let that be the last battle of the American war of independence.
Bit dramatic I know but you get my gist
@Playa: I am white, I had a privileged upbringing, I can’t comment from experience about being disadvantaged nor subjected to racial prejudice. So as much as I disagree with the quota system, I have never stood on the other side of the fence. However my daughter dated a black CW player who recieved a rugby bursary in 2014 to university, his experience of racism and prejudice on campus and in the change room was horrendous. It was a fight for rugby survival and personal dignity (they of the born free generation) Will the quota system solve this, I’m not sure, however, hopefully we won’t be taking about this in 10 years time, hopefully the pendulum swings and in time finds its balance.
@Playa:Sorry let me just put my class down?
One person made it. As I understand Andre Pretorius statistically also should not have made it to the top. He started playing rugby at a late stage or some nonsense like that. They are the exceptions and not the norm.
Still, fact is the system should be geared to treat everybody the same and not judge them by the colour of their skin. Racism should be dealt with but not by punishing the players.
Enjoy that beer.
@Roger:
@Playa: 100+ before halftime? That against Grey, Boishaai or Affies to name a view…it seems to me you already had that beer after the bottle of whiskey?
@Playa: That happens but not only to black players I have seen many boys moved into positions they have not played before, just think about Hougaard. It happened to him once he made it to the top but others were not that fortunate. Fact is sport is hard and like you say nothing garentees success. However without the basic hard work you are garenteed that you will not make it. Only one person can win the Olympic gold but many train just as hard as the winner.
Hard work only gives you a chance to be successful but you need “luck” to make it. Take Warne the Ozzy’s had some good spinners in his time and they will all be big if they played today unfortunately for them they played with Warne so they didn’t achieve half of what they could have.
@Roger:
@Stier:
“The fact that there is more black or white participants in a sport does not mean that it will be reflected in national or any other level team.”
I agree. My point was not to say that this should happen, but rather to point out that there is a large group that has been excluded from participating in rugby, that needs to be now given a fair chance. Swimming does not have that.
“As for the black rugby schools, I can only comment on the schools we play in our region and they don’t stand a chance against most white schools, once again the coaching from what I have seen.”
Once again, I agree. Most black schools will get a beating from the former model c schools. But have you ever heard of a school called Mariah Louw? It’s a school in Mlungisi Township, in Queenstown. It’s where Lwazi Mvovo learned his rugby and matriculated. That school would get 100+ at half time against any of the top 75 schools in the country.
As for coaches – you’d be surprised. I’ve seen okes being excluded because of language (mostly because they cant speak Afrikaans), another guy was once excluded from a Super Rugby squad because the coach wanted his flanks to weigh 100kg minimum. He weighed 98kg at the time. Yet, mid-season, a pale flank walked into the starting line-up at the whopping weight of 95kg. I could go on, but it’s Friday and I am due a beer.
On quotas, I am not a fan. There are some think heads in our rugby system. If you take Grassy’s scenario of Vuyo and Johnny….add a group of coaches and administrators who never experienced apartheid…then we’d be in a good place. But we are not there. And this necessary evil called quotas will unfortunately be something we have to live with for some time.
@Playa: he can’t – it’s above his pay grade.
@BOG: Don’t be so defensive. I was not implying that he had it easy at all. My only point is that it is easy to scream hard work will get you there, but the finer detail of it is that I cannot study law, get employed by ENS and be given a job as an accountant when the spec was that of a para-legal. I am merely pin-pointing the difference in treatment, and a lack of opportunity. Like I said there are many such cases. I know a guy who went there as a flank, got there and was shoved at wing. Another guy from Hudson Park, made SA Schools at flyhalf, got to the union, you guessed it, was placed at wing. Don’t read what you want to read out of this, just see the point I am making and argue that.
@Grasshopper: I don’t care who plays as long as it’s the best in each position. We are fortunate at Boishaai that it isn’t the issue, currently 50% of colour just happens to be our best in those positions. I think as fans spectators we need to send a msg to SARU and Government. Stop going to matches boycott Tests, superrugby and curriecup, this will let them play in empty stadia and know why. And if they continue they will lose sponsorship due to no interest. If they know the money is not coming it will change. And if government pays for it so be it but I doubt they will. But until we stop going to matches it will continue.
@VanniLaeveld: Statement based on data I viewed in 2013. The Western Cape alone has more rugby players than Gauteng, FS and KZN combined. The most startling stat on the WC – which is irrelevant to this discussion – is that there are more players of colour in Stellenbosch (and surrounds) than there are rugby players in Australia. The Eastern Cape has more than KZN & FS combined. There are more Black clubs (by that clubs with 100% black players) in the WC &EC combined than there are clubs in the other 7 provinces combined. Over and above that, the average previously whites only clubs in the WC have on average 65% black membership. This number is 90% in the EC.
It is understandable for a Gautenger/KZNer/Free Stater/Mpumalanger to believe whites are the dominant players because soccer is the preferred choice in those provinces. It is no wonder that the Varsity Shield has UWC and Fort Hare, but no VUT. In fact VUT doesn’t even offer rugby. In the EC, soccer,though played everwhere, is more popular in the rural parts that used to be part of the Transkei and Ciskei. Even then, soccer is played on Saturdays, and rugby on Sundays. A culture that has been there for decades. In the townships, rugby trumps soccer fivefold.
dammit – I fed the troll AGAIN!
@BOG: shhhaaaddddupppp Bog – go back to your enclave and lets the grown ups talk
@Playa: The question is not about transformation but qoutas. Qutas in my view is the wrong way to “transform” or as I prefer create equality on the sport field. The fact that there is more black or white participants in a sport does not mean that it will be reflected in national or any other level team. The French starting soccer team, I think it was the 2006 WC consisted of seven non white players if I recall correctly that didn’t reflect the French nations ethnic make up unless some white Frencies still have to come out the closet.
The Western Cape probably produce more white professional rugby players than any other province yet they are not the province with the most white people. I moved from Pretoria to the Cape and I can promise you that the level of primary school rugby in the Cape are way ahead of Gauteng. The coaching in my opinion is the diference .
Most people I know don’t like the idea behind transformation because they see it as a threat to them and their family’s. They don’t however complain if they know they will get the same opportunity to compete as any other South African. The word qouta does not allow for that and looks purely at numbers and nobody likes that except maybe the people that benefit from it. Is it right to judge on the colour of a persons skin when deciding whether to give that person a chance?
As for people in administration, most of them in my experience are clueless and what you said don’t surprise me. However I don’t think coaches will act that way, if they do I will be very surprised. Let’s be honest most teams that contract any player will not do so without the coach team having a say or am I wrong? Still the problem must then be solved by dealing with the racist administraters in the sport and not the players.
As for the black rugby schools, I can only comment on the schools we play in our region and they don’t stand a chance against most white schools, once again the coaching from what I have seen.
My point is just that no qouta system will make people less racist or bias, in fact it will do the opposite. Even if we make the team totally one colour it will not solve anything. The only way to do it is to make sure kids have access to sport. I think it is the only way to achieve acceptable transformation. I coached with a Olympic coach from Russia and he told me that schools was the way they build their sport in Russia during the gold war. That must have been a nice war haha. Cold war. He proved it to me, we started a school program and within a couple of years we dominated our sport to the extend that our club won more SA medals in one year than any province in the country did that year.
If the government and sport federations can’t find a way to make all community’s feel part of a fair system they might as well leave it because they won’t succeed. I believe they can but qoutas are defenitly not the way to do it. Racism will always be around white, black but the rugby system can not compensate for that, the system must treat all participants as equal. Rasicm must be dealt with through the justice system and other means.
@Playa: You need to go and read up on the long and very hard road WSS had to take to get where he is today,before he got SA schools- one of courage and determination- via the Academy road. And eventually, he had to return to his old province, only to be plagued by injury. Thats what players/employees have to do to advance their careers- worldwide.There was no easy road for him and to suggest that he had an easy passage, is misrepresenting the facts.
@Playa: I agree with you on many points, but would like to know if there are data available from a reliable source to back your statement that there are more non-white rugby players in SA than white ones. I ask because in the areas I have been involved in with rugby over the past 20 years, ie KZN and Mpumalanga, it seems highly unlikely. Searching for black players or black educators wanting to be involved in rugby has mostly proven fruitless. We always lose out to King Soccer. Friends in the Freestate, Limpopo, Gauteng and Northwest have the same stories to tell.
@McCulleys Workshop: He did…eventually. It didn’t end well for him. Let us also be mindful of culture. A black boy will really have to grow serious bold to stand up to someone older (and white), especially when their bread and butter depends on a good relationship between him and his boss. The average white boy grows up being encouraged to speak their mind and stand up for themselves. All of these things fall into that complex box Toffee mentioned earlier.
@Playa: Why didn’t he just tell them he was a centre?
@Grasshopper: Let me first address your misunderstanding of the terms ‘previously advantaged’ and ‘previously disadvantaged’. It has nothing to do with financial muscle or which school a boy comes from or whether or not a person was born in 1996 or 1986 – it all has to do with ‘a group of people who were previously excluded from fair treatment/previously favoured above the other’. Do I think this scenario is unfair on Johnny? HELL YES!
But you conveniently choose a side of an argument that suits you. Let me have your thoughts on this one:
William and Andile go to two different schools. In their matric year, both make SA Schools – both on merit, with no dispute about them being the best 2 centres in the country. The following year, both get contracted by the same union. Andile is moved to wing ON ARRIVAL, William remains a centre. Andile has never played wing before (he is a powerful rugby player, buthis pace is nowhere near the minimum required for a wing at that level). As a result he ends up playing Varsity Shield rugby fro the local tech (again placed at wing), and on occasion gets his chance at centre. A few injuries later in the union, he gets a Vodacom Cup chance – again at wing. William climbs the ranks in the meantime all the way to Super Rugby. Frustrated, Andile switches unions, and is now playing Currie Cup rugby in his new union, with a foot into Super Rugby.
This is not a made-up scenario, this is a true story based on the experiences and progress of William Small-Smith (Grey College center and captain 2010) and Andile ‘Ace’ Jho (Dale College center and captain 2010). This is sadly one of many such stories.
@Playa: OK, take this scenario Johnny aged 12 is white the best prop in his school and Vuyo aged 12 is black and the best prop at his school. Johnny outscrummed Vuyo in the interschools game and was an overall better player. Vuyo gets selected for the province due to quotas and Johnny doesn’t. Remember both kids have grown up in the new South Africa with supposed equal opportunities. Say Vuyo’s family is more well off than Johnny’s and is in fact not disadvantaged or previously disadvantaged at all. Do you think that scenario is right?
@Stier: Participation! That is why a sport like swimming cannot have ‘quotas’ per se. It’s only in King Williams Town that you’ll find black swimmers and water-polo players
. That though should not stop swimming programs being launched in townships etc. – story for another day.
In SA, believe it or not, there are more players of colour that play the game of rugby (high school, tertiary & club levels) than white. Cricket is the same. Then how come we see more pale faces than brown ones at provincial/national level? That is the question that needs to be answered. That hence spoke to the need to transform the sports. Not to say that we have to have teams that consist of a black majority, but rather to say that an opportunity to participate at higher levels needs to be created for players of colour.
@Playa @stier so nice to read thoughtful views expressed without any snide comments !
@Stier: My views on the quota system are well documented. I will avoid repeating myself, but will need to point a few things out as I don’t think I have ever enganged you on this topic.
Do I support the quota system? NO
Do I think it is a necessary evil? YES – correctly implemented it could even the playing field out. Most importantly because of the many complex reasons as per Toffee’s post above.
There is an enclave (I am loving this word, thanks BOG) out there of people who think that biases in rugby do not exist. I have been involved, at a point I spent more time at SARU and WP Rugby offices than I did in the UCT lecture theatres pushing development with a view to achieve transformation. I could write a book about my experiences, things that to this day make me sick to the stomach. I really wish I could mention names, but I am not that kind of person. Maybe one day I’ll write a book.There are good people too, no doubt, and maybe you’re one of them. It is not a perception, but fact that a lot of selectors in the echelons of SA Rugby would on any day rather have a pool of white players to select from than a mixed bag of races.
Is the government doing even a quarter of what they should be? NO…and neither is SARU.
It amazes me when there is denial of the racial biases that exist in rugby. I guess you’ve never been told to go watch Ajax in Athlone by some random person when you go to watch rugby at Newlands, or worse having a well known rugby official tell you to your face in a meeting: “I don’t know what you people want with rugby. Haven’t you taken enough from us already?” – only to sheepishly ‘retract’ his statement by telling us how many black people he’s had sleep over at his house, and how many he has funded over the years, so he is not racist. Argh please! One day when I am famous, I will write that book. The little I have to lose right now is all I have to my name.
With that I will agree to disagree with you.
@ToffeeAs far as I know there is no qoutas at any school in our country, yet Boishaai and many other schools (like gresshoper pointed out) produce great mixed teams without any qouta pressure.
These schools are the proof that given the right structure and opportunity all kids are equal. It is all about having the kids exposed to good coaching and hard work from a young age, the younger the better.
A child that started playing rugby at five with exposure to good coaching will always stay ahead of another child with the same talent and work ethic if the second child starts five years later or gets proper coaching five years after the first kid did. I hope that makes sense. Only government has the infrastructure and money through the schools to bring that about. No sporting code in our country has the infrastructure or money to give equal opportunity’s to all the kids in this country. Our government is like usual only using rugby to score political points and steel some money. Did you here the excuse from the government why our Olympic swimming team don’t have qoutas? What was it, “swimming is different, you can’t just produce swimmers”? You got to be kidding me.
Those black people that feel marginalised should stand up and hold the right people accountable. They should stop blaming racism and start blaming the government. Remember apartheid lasted so long because a lot of good people did nothing to stop it.
@Grasshopper: No matter where in the world, coaches are held accountable for the performance of the team-any sport. But in SA, where the coaches do not have carte blanche in the teams selection, that cannot be done. That is the irony, given the criticism the Springbok coaches have had to endure over the years.
@Toffee: Perception is the key word, reality is not. I cannot believe that the majority of coaches are racist. They just want to win…
@Stier: Exactly! Coaches are under huge pressure to win and they will pick the best they have no matter what colour. That is how it should be in the professional teams, otherwise they are actually not very professional. At Glenwood we had our first black player play 1st team in 1994, 22 years ago. All this quota rubbish just seems so out of date. Over the years schools like Glenwood, DHS, College, Jeppe, KES etc have all had many black players in the 1st team and make provincial teams. I remember a year when the Glenwood 1st team had about 10 black players in it, the entire backline & front-row.
@Stier: What you are saying, is of course, absolutely correct. But you will have difficulty in conveying that truth here.If you have ever tried to stick a pin into a brick, you will understand what I mean@boerboel: Jammer dat ek net na Fox Terriers verwys het. Ten spyte van jou naam, gedra jy jouself soos n foxterrier. So, moenie uitgesluit voel nie.n Boerboel sonder tande en n bek vol mieliepap, is minder skadelik as n foxy. Werklik, ek dink die Kaapse skole moet sommer CC speel, of elke skool daar, aan CW deelneem. Watter skool het nou weer die meeste Springbokke sedert die 40s opgelewer? Waar sou Grey Peaches (Derdes), met hulle 4 gestaan het?
@Toffee: Then we will have to agree to disagree. I believe it is that simple, at our school we have one player of colour and he is the captain, not because of his skin colour but because he is the best.
I coach and I will never select anybody based on the colour of their skin because as a coach I want my boys to win and the best boys have the best chance to win. Yes there will be people that will be racist in their selection but I find it very difficult to believe that that will be the norm. Any coach wants to give himself the best chance to win and that is why they will always select what they believe their best team is. Call it ego or pride but no coach want to lose even if it means selecting somebody that you don’t really like.
@ Stier. Unfortunately I dont think it is that simple. My personal belief is that if there had not been the threat of quotas that some sectors of the rugby community would have dragged their heels with the whole transformation issue.
There is still the perception in a lot of the Black rugby playing communities that there is still a bias against them, and they have every reason to be distrustful. I dont want to get into a big debate as it would go on for hours but I do believe the issue to be very complex and not as simple as being against one skin colour.
@Stier: Hear, hear! :-)
@Playa: Any system using the colour of a persons skin as a factor for partisipation is racist, didn’t we learn anything from apartheid? Nobody that love this country or sport gives a shit if the bok team is white or black as long as the best players are playing and they were selected on merit. Who is the qouta players in the bok team? There must be because if there aren’t any then why do we need a qouta? Do you believe PdV and Alister are racist what about Watson and his staff at the Kings? Not even these guys can full the qouta. So please Alister must tell us who the qouta players are so we know and we don’t have to label players selected on merit as quota players anymore. Until he does what others way is there for us to know who they are?
Fact is our government is doing nothing to transform anything, all they do is give stick and steel money. My son was involved in two provincial sports this year and it was shocking to see what a joke transformation is. The system is rediculous. In the one sport the qouta was 9 “black” players but only three came to our regionals? The selectors had to go and ask schools to send players no mater their level. Still nobody came. I asked the one selector why don’t they go to the schools and coach the kids so they won’t have this problem, he replied that he tried it but nobody was willing to pay the coach’s or pay to train coach’s at the schools. When he wants money to build a pitch then there is more than enough money? I had the same experience in my sport I went to the ANC in Gauteng to ask for money to pay coach’s to coach in a township. They told me they would rather build a hall for us but we must remember that 30% of the amount needed for the hall must be “salliries”? What is the point a hall to practice in but nobody to coach?
Transformation can only happen through training and hard work not through qoutas and handouts. Selection should never be about colour but merit because quotas will never lead to sustainable success. You wil alienate a section of the population and they will go and apply their trade somewhere abroad or this leave the sport and any talent lost is a shame and something we can not afford.
Here is the thing I remember when we won the rugby WC and the African Soccer Cup everybody was proud nobody cared what the team looked like.
If government will start investing in people we can all change this country. If they will stop dividing people and create the opportunity for us to help each other this will be a awesome country that everybody will feel apart of. I know a white guy he has a adopted black son and through hard work that boy won 23 SA titles and 2 African titles he is going to the World Champs in July. He got there through hard work not shortcuts. He also helped a “coloured” boy four years ago, the boy did athletics and that was it , he then started to train two hours a day five days a week and now four years later he made the WP under 12 and 13 rugby team, he came fourth at SA athletics and he came third at the SA under 13 wrestling championships. He did this, not through a qouta system but through hard work. People don’t need qoutas to make it they need the opportunity and then they must work hard. And that is the same for everybody every colour.
Government must stop their politics and start to do their jobs by giving our school kids a good education, good coachs and teachers. You don’t need buildings to make athletes you need good coaching, I know a guy who have coached many SA champions under a tree.
‘arf, ‘arf, ‘arf, ‘arf ……….
oh never mind …………..
@BOG: Yes..Fox Terriers and Jack Russel’s are good at sniffing out the rats and vermin!..
Warren Whitley is good cc. S18 player. At international level. Don’t think so. Some players cannot make stepup
School in bloem plus cherries will have to play I b league in western cape
A mixture of truth, conjecture , speculation and under cover campaigners for justice, equality and fairness. It actually reminds me of a gathering of the SA Kennel Club- Fox terrier division. The old Paul Mc Cartney “Frog” song, comes to mind: Yap, Yap, Yap—
Yappety, Yappety, Yappety, Yap—
Lets all yap together.
A “cacoon of self importance”? What a joke? Pride, among several things,is something that I have been delivered from totally. Have a blessed weekend! But the one thing is clear. The schools in Bloem, besides GCB, will be competitive in most regions of SA.
@BOG: Really?!?!?! WOW! Just WOW!
@BoishaaiPa: I think he was waiting for me to do something, I am everyone I think!
Bog, you didn’t relegate me to one of your Petshop Boys maneuvers? Anyway I think you are right, the ref in the HJS game was on the cusp of dishonesty and allowed them to get away with murder at ruck time, consistently playing the ball on the ground, he should have gone for a card and you should have won.
@BOG: What silence?..We responded to your comment. You are living in such a cocoon of your own self importance that you even confirm your own statements based on nothing! . Instead of trying to tell everyone about the doom and gloom in SA, we are actually the people at the coalface of the issues, trying to do something about it, but that you would not know.
For people who seem to be so well informed, Im surprized at the silence, which just confirms my comment about the enclaves people have created for themselves. “Dont say or do anything that may disturb my artificial tranquility” But the article at least, is informative for those lesser beings- the remaining 99.9% .
@BOG: Quite a known story as BoishaaiPa has said.
As for the enclave and what not you talk about…I’m not too sure.But I’ll leave it at that.You have your views and you don’t like being challenged. The enclave you have created for yourself is where you and everuone who agrees with you are right….everyone else is delusional.
@Bush: My recovery is almost complete.I’m not as young as I used to be.
Groggy had a year’s stunt coaching the Hamilton’s under 20 side here in Cape Town on 2013.He did quite well with them.He hated city life though so he packed up and went back to King.A man with a big heart and a winning mentality.He knows how yo get the best out of his players.I think he’d do well in any school as long as its in a small town….King in particular
@BOG: Maybe you will be surprised to hear that we are not all as naive as you might think we are…I dont know why you would think it would rattle any cage…its common knowledge if you have been in any sports at grassroot level development.
@Grasshopper: Exactly, but as I said, the article is sure to shake a few cages among the heads-in-the-sand group here and will certainly irritate them. Excellent !!
@BOG: Joffe is spot on!
@Playa: No, Ishall not “unleash myself” on the poor fellow. I can see that he struggles with rugby matters, and I do not wish to aggrevate his situation. Many SAs have created for themselves a little enclave of comfort and they hate it if anything disturbs their peace, no matter how true, in fact, especially if its true. Mc culleys is one of many. Here is another thought provoking, Im sure irritating too for most here, article by Greame Joffe, when he opens up another can of worms. Transformation Achilles heel. Where did the FIFA millions go??? http://www.biznews.com/transformation/2016/06/09/corruption-transformations-achilles-heel-fifa-millions-go/
@McCulleys Workshop: Vermeulen isn’t even fully fit. Anyway, Warren will get a chance, let’s hope at least 20 mins when the game opens up. Jaco Kriel must be bleak! Fred was unlucky with injury as 18 months ago he was playing well for the Sharks.
@Playa: There haven’t been any red cards or Cooling off time this year. Boerboel was going quite well but lost his bite.
Have you fully recovered from your weekend yet. Griffy is a machine, he knows how to operate and he’s not a Doctor. I think he has to be the best schoolboy coach in SA. He has passion for his Old School and the Boys. How do you think he would do coaching a team at a different school?
@McCulleys Workshop: Hahahahaha! Don’t be a sad panda. It’s only a matter of time before someone p$$’s someone off in KZN and the handbags start flying again. I actually miss it
@PaarlBok: Ek moet iewers a program og hê van dit. Sal moet kyk. Ek weet Fiela was ook daar. Ek en sy ouers het nog lekker gesels. Fiela se neef was laasjaaar in Oakdale, Boeta Hamman, wat nou by ander Bulle is.
@Grasshopper: I’m with BooishaaiPa in this, the bench is a good place for him, no problem with that. He’s a journeyman and wouldn’t let any side down, but Vermeulen a better man! So we got Pat in, what happened to Rene Zellwegger the next Bok fly half?
@BuiteBreek: Wel as ek so vining dink van die WP CW span wat ook daar was, is Zak, Wiaan en Muller.
@McCulleys Workshop: at least Pat made the Boks & Ruan should have. Warren got a kick in the teeth being picked on the bench!
@McCulleys Workshop: I see a bit of Bubbles every now and again in and around Scottburgh. Only see the other guys when we get together for our Reunion Days. Stu Butcher solid chap.
That year at House was the best time of my life.
@Playa: Personally, I would be more worried about Petshop Boys, my other comment is quite endearing!
At least you can blog about Dale, WP schools rugby, the lack of need for quota (sounds like a fishing trawler) in the WP, we’ve got nothing going for us at the moment. Us House supporters are like Tang, hang dawg, think they should do a Monnas to the Chaplian because he’s not praying hard enough as well as the head of recruitment, his twitch fast muscle test isn’t working beyond grade 10.5! And then our China’s down the road brought back their million dollar man, and he’s still with Freddie Mercury, the Ville are also looking to do a Monnas and Tang combo, fire the lot, and there are no Old Boys playing for Glenwood anymore. Flipping boring, oh and our season by and large ends in about 2 minutes. But … We do have CW to look forward to!!
@PaarlBok: Ja, en seuns eet pap en longe mos
@Calamari: Verseker nie, en dis hoekom Landbou se conversion rate op tersiêre vlak so goed is, of hoe?
@PaarlBok: Dis beslis so. Elmo is/was egter nie die enigste wat sy gesig by die toernooie gewys het nie. Grey PE, Selborne, Gim, Drostdy, Worcester Gim, Strand, Landbou, Oakdale, Outeniqua ens was almal altyd daar om te kyk.
@BuiteBreek: Wel dis hoe ver Elmo al daai tyd gedink het.
@Ploegskaar: Ploegie ek het nog altyd gedink by Landbou is spoeg en plak en plant die voor vereiste?
@McCulleys Workshop: None of the above.
For saying this:”Bog, your best contributions definitely pertain to your knowledge of Grey. Full stop.”
Bog is going to unleash himself on you!
@Bush: Bush, you ever catch up with Bubbles and company? I watched quite a few of those 91 games, the one on Goldstones was a cracker! I see Ekstrand round and about and Butchers brother is an old mate of mine.
@Playa: Which one – saying Petshop Boys in public – or saying Amen in public!
@Ploegskaar: Sportmanne gaan nie Suid Afrika se ekonomie deur die drif trek nie
@Calamari: Solank die seun se belange (akademie en sport) op die hart gedra word, het ek nie ‘n probleem met die nader van die seun nie. Ek skryf akademie eerste, want op die ou end is dit wat die belangrikste is. Min mense (% gewys) het die voorreg om ‘n lewe te maak slegs van sport.
@Calamari: Jy het geen idee, tot my innige frustrasie, hoeveel keer dit al die geval by Landbou was nie
@BuiteBreek: Akademie bly altyd eerste prioriteit wanneer n seun genader word. Dit sal altyd so wees. HJS het al baie seuns (uitstekende sportmanne) weggewys agv hiervan…
@Calamari: @PaarlBok: Die o/12 toernooi word steeds aangebied. Die jaar is dit op Oudtshoorn. Vir die laaste paar jaar was dit op Oakdale aangebied.
Athi het in 2010 ooggevang, toe die toernooi by Gim aangebied was. Hy was een van baie seuns wat daardie jaar uitgestaan het. Hy het toe vir Boland gespeel. Was die volgende jaar Klein Boishaai toe, en in Graad 8 na Landbou.
Baie hoërskole gebruik die o12 toernooi om spelers te nader. Ek het elke toernooi die manne daar sien rondloop. En in die meeste gevalle was die seuns op ‘n ordentlike manier (gespreke met die ouers ook en nie net die seuns nie) genader.
@PaarlBok: Ek dink hy is op een of ander landbou beurs, menende…..departement landbou/agri sa of so iets…
@Ploegskaar: Ek dink Athi wou ook graag in Boishaai wees, maar dit het toe nie uitgewerk vir hom nie.
@Calamari: Weet nou nie lekker wat dit met my post uit te waai het nie, maar jy is ook reg
@Ploegskaar: n Seun se rugby talent is ontwikkel, en hy wil in Boishaai wees, op die ou end van die dag is dit al wat saak maak.
@PaarlBok: Was in Parow-Wes, soos gesê is, maar glo die Witwolf van die Paarl eerder as Elmo het hom gespot
@McCulleys Workshop: Oh no you didn’t!
@Calamari: Ek praat sommer Bog.
@PaarlBok: Hoekom se jy so?
@Calamari: Julle telling sou so 60 meer wees teen Grey Kollege indien hulle 7 spelers van kleur moes hê.
@PaarlBok: Ek dink net baie skole doen nie genoeg om te transformeer nie..
@PaarlBok: Na elke wedstyd word daar baie lof gegee aan die afrigtingspan
@Calamari: Presies. Hoop julle gee genoeg krediet aan julle afrigters.
Ek sien dis nie Attie nie, maar Athi is ook in die Craven Week span. @Calamari: Dis verseker maar krediet aan Elmo wat in 2011 so HJS se strukture begin sterk maak het. Skole soos Grey Kollege, Paarl Gim en Affies het ook n bydrae om te lewer. Om n skole wedstryd tussen PRG en HJS te kyk doen wragtag nie regverdiging om die kwota aanmerkings verskonings hierbo te aanskou nie. Hoekom moan die minister as Grey teen Affies speel maar nie n word word gerep as PRG speel teen Grey High of HJS.
@PaarlBok: HJS het 7 spelers van kleur die jaar in hulle eerste span, n merkwaardige prestasie.
@PaarlBok: …en ek stem saam met jou, Skole moet eintlik vergoed word omdat hulle spelers van kleur deur die ‘ranks’ bring. Ongelooflik.
@PaarlBok: Geen idee nie. Ek is net bly en verlig dat hierdie seuns ongelooflike geleenthede gegee is om hulle talente te ontwikkel.
@Calamari: Maak nie saak watter skool dit is nie, as ek reg onthou is Khanya en Attie (laaste was hy by Boland Landbou) raakgesien by die u12 suidelike provinsie toernooi, en is in hul graad 7 jaar na Klein Boishaai. So terloops, doen hulle nog daai toernooi?
@BuffelsCM: HJS se engelse onderrig is baie goed en ek glo die skool gee hom uitstekende geleenthede. Harde werk word nogsteeds benodig, maar hiervoor moet ek my hoed vir die skool afhaal. Die seuns moet nogsteeds binne n goeie struktuur ontwikkel word. Dit kos bloed sweet – kom beslis nie vanself nie.
@PaarlBok: Hy was in Laerskool Parow-Wes op skool. Dit is natuurlik makliker om seuns wat verkies om in Engels skool te gaan, te trek na ‘n dubbelmedium skool.
@PaarlBok: Ek is nie seker waar hy of enige van die ander spelers in die eerstespan vandaan kom nie. Ek weet wel hulle wil almal in Boishaai wees, en dit is n ongelooflike gevoel.
@Calamari: Elmo het vroeg vroeg die belangrikheid van dit besef. Waar dink jy kom Khanya vandaan?
@PaarlBok: Ek moet bieg sekere skole transformeer baie beter as ander skole…
@Calamari: Hulle is elke jaar sterk. Ek wil graag terug gaan met n baie belangrike punt wat Beet gemaak het. Dis ongelooflik belangrik vir die voortbestaan vir ons rugby dat skole regtig n effort insit om spelers van kleur te ontwikkel en deur te bring. Daai kwota storie is afgesaag en uitgedien. Ons min van sport moet die skole op n manier vergoed wat dit doen. PRG, HJS en Grey PE doen uitstekende werk in die verband en wys dat hul afrigters regtig uit die boks dink en doen.
@PaarlBok: Ek het n voeltjie hoor fluit dat volgende jaar se Affies span nog beter as vanjaar sin gaan wees….
Boggie. ai bly by jou opgemaakte grey stories wat jou n semi gee. Los die aandeelmarkte en wat dit beweeg via die wat weet
@Naastrolia: Naas miskien kan jy my vertel of Affies spelers van kleur in hul 1st team het?
@Naastrolia: Net hy daai!
@ calamari -ek dink hyt by st john as reserve gespeel? baie goed gelyk met man trek en bal wegkry in tackle
@BOG: Bog, your best contributions definitely pertain to your knowledge of Grey. Full stop.
@Naastrolia: Graad 11, goeie ‘voetballer’, laat my baie aan Stephan Larkham dink. Uitstekende skakel tussen voorspelers en agterspelers, lees en som die spel goed op, baie baie goeie krieketspeler ook.
@Playa: Amen
@Playa: This whole thread, got out of hand, when I made a valid point about the schools in Bloem, other than GCB, not being as useless as some bloggers here seem to suggest. I tried to support my opinion by giving the scores over the years between GCB and the other Bloem schools, and those between GCB and schools in KZN. And what these scores showed, was that there was consistency, excluding perhaps the matches against the so called “top 5” or so. But Im glad to hear that you dont regard me as a racist, because I can assure you that I have, for a long time overcome that challenge, and not just artificially, which is so common- on both sides.@boerboel: Dankie vir jou normale bydrae van “wysheid” Jy wil dus te kenne gee dat wanneer n maatskappy sleg vaar en die ekonomie in resessie is, kan ons verwag dat die aandeleprys sal styg? Slim kind ! Ek was, in my domgeid, altyd onder die indruk dat dit andersom was. Terloops, het jy al gehoor van die “Bul” en die “Beer” mark en hoe dit deur groot beleggers gebruik word? Skuim soos George Soros, het al deur manipulasie, die waarde van die Britse Pond op internasionale markte, beinvloed- bloot omdat hy n weddenskap aangegaan is.
@Naastrolia: Hy is ‘n baie goeie krieketspeler maar was ook verlede jaar die WP se Grant Khomo losskakel: dus ‘n baie goeie balspeler!!
Hoeveel PoC het Affies in hul 1st team?
@BOG: “stock market manipulated”-wie doen dit ou boggie?-illuminati,swart gevaar,rooi gevaar?
jy moet jou medikasie verhoog
@calamari
Vertel my nog so bietjie meer van die Boeta loskakel
@BOG: You misunderstand me. I do not think that you are a racist. Though I do think that some (a lot) of your comments/views are racist in their nature. From day 1 of conversing with you on this blog (and before that on 365), I have always accepted your dislike for the quota system, just as I have with anyone else who has an opposing view. What I cannot accept from you or anyone else is this new version of ‘swart gevaar’ – i.e. things are getting black so they are now falling apart. That is the tone that comes screaming out of your comments. I’m all for disagreement, but disagree with a solution in mind – the solutions to the ills in this country will come from the many who read this blog. Ok, out of my soap box I go.
As for the second comment. I admitted that I had no idea what you were on about, I was not involved in that conversation, and so was surprised that you addressed me on this on 74. I agree with you (I cant believe it!), the likes of Sentraal and Louis Botha can be competitive in the Border and KZN leagues. Now that I get your point, I think you would have proven your point better by providing ‘random’ scores against Border/KZN schools, rather than their scores vs Grey.
@Roger: Thanks for your advice. That is why I shall avoid you.
@Playa: @BoishaaiPa: “never wrestle with pigs…….”
Let the deluded old fool be
@Playa: Wow, Im surprized at your rant. You accuse someone who is totally opposed to government intervention in sport of “racism”? During the old political dispensation, it were those who were in favour of government intervention, who were deemed “racist”. And you speak of consistency? I detect a moral shift here or is it moral inconsistency? Regarding your second comment, I think that the key word is “necessarily”. You, along with the others here, are missing the point. And that is quite simple. The schools in Bloem, other than GCB, will be competitive in KZN, and Border, mind you. So too, in most other regions. By that Im certainly not suggesting that they will win every match or that they wont have their off seasons too, but they will be competitive. But to suggest that they are perpetually useless, is a complete disregard of the reality.
@BOG: As an investment manager, one of our key disclaimers is that “Past performance is not necessarily an indication of future performance”. I really take that line to heart. Sport is one of those things that this applies to 100%. Last year, Michaelhouse wen unbeaten, this year they buy whatever win they can get. Dale is currently flying high, but who knows where they’ll be next year or the year after. Boishaai have gone 34 games unbeaten, while Boys’ High can’t buy a win, though historically they couldn’t be bribed to lose a game against top performing schools. When the Candies are back on top in a few years’ time, will these unsuccessful seasons matter?
Past scores are nice to look at, and at best they serve as reference and give us old boys bragging rights for our respective years. They are not an indication of current or future strength. To be honest, I really have no idea of what your point was when bringing those ‘randomly’ selected scores.
@BOG: Well it was you wo said that for as long as there is a quota system, every player of colour is a quota as far as you’re concerned. A team with 8 quotas beating an Aussie team picked on merit must be a huge achievement worthy of being shouted from roof tops all over the country, wouldn’t you say?
As for this comment: “Zimbabwe has won a few against Australia. Bangladesh too. Consistency is required before a noise is made.”
Well, where was this thought when you were predicting doom after the under19s lost to Zim? Where’s your consistency Oom? From now on, I will not make any noise about any of your degrading/insulting/doomsday/racist comments simply because you fail at meeting the consistency requirement.
@pietretief: Wil net byvoeg. Om te wil se dat VS nie meer kompiterend is nie, is darem nie korrek nie. Dit is so dat wanneer GCB n minder sterk span het, wys dit in VS se rugby, maar hulle bly nog steeds kompiterend.Alle spanne beleef maar “afseisoene”, maar wanneer dit met Grey gebeur, word daar allerlei gevolgtrekkings gemaak. Maar min ander spanne sal steeds in die “Top 5” eindig in een van hulle baie slegte seisoene.
@McCulleys Workshop: Not sure how and why you have brought in the stock market here. The stock market should reflect the state of the economy generally, and the performance of the company in particular. But that is no longer the case.There is no difference between the stock market and the casino. Its obviously being manipulated and my common sense tells me that its not sustainable. And the cracks are getting wider.@pietretief: Ons kan nou maar n vergrootglas plaas oor individuele skole vir spesifieke seisoene, en daarvolgens afleidings en gevolgtrekkings probeer maak, maar die punt wat ek probeer maak het, was dat die Bloem skole, buiten GCB, KOMPITEREND sou gewees het in KZN (en in ander streke) Nie dat hulle altyd sou wen nie, maar sou kon deelneem, soms wen, soos ander, dws nie uit hulle diepte wees nie. En die mate van sukses, aan beide kante, sal maar wissel van seisoen tot seisoen. Waarmee ek n probleem het, is hierdie algemene aanvaarding dat hierdie skole in Bloem noodwendig sleg is. Hierdie is groot skole, goed gevestig, en n hele paar Springbokke vanuit hulle geledere opgelewer
@BOG: @BoishaaiPa: Bog jy mis die punt, vandat LB ‘n groot deel van greystaat bydrae is julle nie meer kompeterend by CW nie, maak nie saak hoe jy daar na kyk nie.
Indien ons die 4 top skole van kzn vat en die 4 top skole van vrystaat, sal grey #1 wees en 2-5 sal kzn skole wees. skole soos kearsney,westville en dhs het baie meer verbeter in die laaste paar jaar as die ander skole van bloem.
@McCulleys Workshop: I’m been serious about that fixture. My son plays in the 4th team. Now we must trek to Weston to watch him play.
Goes to show how talent the side was last year, due to such a short season and a late start.
Have a good day, weekend and take care.
@BOG: And generally, on average, stocks go up more than they go down, especially stocks in Souf Afrika and some other regions also. It’s a fact.
@Bush: You pulling the piss right? I’m not sure who asked for the stagger, I can’t see why House would at open level. I’m also not sure of the depth of DHS rugby but am under the impression that they are competitive at A/B team level only, could be wrong!
Is the season too short – They seem to have made a point of not cutting the cricket season short and only play one game before the Easter tournaments, and generally they look under done early on in the season. I also preferred the season when it continued into the 3rd term, but purely because I enjoy having more games to watch. But the wheel has turned and soccer also now plays a role, and has to be accommodated. I don’t think House is a rugby school, it’s just one of the things they also try and do well.
@McCulleys Workshop: Morning, don’t you think House’s rugby season is to short. They have 2 games left and the season is over. Strange thing this weekend is the 4th Team is playing Weston 2nd team. Why is that? Has rugby at House become so weak they can’t match team for team anymore?
@BoishaaiPa: Nee wat, jy het dit nie gegee nie. Een ding moet ek jou toegee. Jy het die vermoe om gerieflikheidshalwe, dit wat jy nie van hou nie, te ignoreer.En dit het jy gedoen. En “bottom line” is dit- die oorspronklike punt. Die skole in Bloemfontein, behalwe vir GCB, sal oor die algemeen, kompiterend wees in KZN en sekerlik ook in ander streke.
@BOG: Ag ou Bog..ek reageer ook maar net op beledigings…direk of indirek. Gerieflikheidshalwe het ek ook net een artikel gebruik…ek het nie die tyd of die lus om hieroor te argumenteer nie…jy het vir bewyse gevra..ek het dit gegee. Bou n brug.
@Playa: Personally Im not worried if all 11 were black, pink or blue- if they are there on merit and not interms of the law. If you dont realise that by now, you never will. And I guess you have heard the saying, “One swallow does not make a summer” ? Zimbabwe has won a few against Australia. Bangladesh too. Consistency is required before a noise is made. Something like a 89% win record over a century.
@BoishaaiPa: Ek is absoluut verstom oor die selektiewe gebruik van kommentaar. Daar is n verskil om vir iemand te se wat hy moet gaan doen, en wat hy is. Dit verg werklik nie veel wysheid om dit te weet nie. In meeste gevalle wat jy my aanhaal,was dit in reaksie op beledigings. Dit het jy soos gewoonlik, gerieflikheidshalwe weggelaat. @BuiteBreek: Ek neem aan dat jy daardie wysheid vanoggend ontdek het toe jy in die spieel gekyk het?@Playa: I think that quoting rugby scores over several years is “very” irrefutable. Unless you are aware of objections lodged later and the outcomes of those matches, changed. Pass it on to me and I shall amend those scores.@Speartackle: Jy het seker al gehoor van n Foxterrier mentaliteit ? Of is dit eerder Yorkies? Dit word hier goed geillustreer.
@BoishaaiPa: There is a definite Petshop Boys theme …
@BuiteBreek: Aha..Ek dink jy het nou agter die kap van die byl gekom!..Ek was net beskrywend ja!…
@Playa: Yip..us plebs dont know nuffink!!
@BoishaaiPa: Daar is ‘n fyn lyn tussen ‘n belediging en ‘n beskrywing.
@BoishaaiPa: I don’t think he shares the same definition of ‘irrefutable facts’ as us common people who are not well learned or travelled.
@Speartackle: shamsi looked good….trapped finch plumb about 4 times ump had no clue either. Cricket team very brittle. We rely too much on a couple of players performing.
@Speartackle: Ek het nog te min van hom gesien…Hy het redelik gevaar in plaaslike reeks, maar ek het my bedenkinge oor die kwaliteit batsmen in sommige gevalle..Hy het verlede jaar in Wes Indie in hulle plaaslike reeks gespeel en blykbaar heel goed gedoen..so toestande ken hy dus…Ek sal dophou met hoop!
@Speartackle: Ou Herc wou maar net so bietjie kom stook vir gees…Ons het mekaar redelik gas gegee daai week…hy het tot einde saam gebly en gekuier in die klubhuis..het tot selfs my Boishaai keps gedra vir n halfuur na die game tussen sy Grey maters!…
@Speartackle: Daar skort niks met my sin vir humor nie…ek kan n grap vat en hom uitdeel….verskuilde beledigings en swak sportmanskap sit nie goed by my nie!
@BoishaaiPa: Hoe rate jy Shamsi?
@BoishaaiPa: loss of Wian is big he’s a great player.
@BoishaaiPa: Was vir my skreeusnaaks toe Matthew Wade kliphard by stump mic gesê het…..we are almost into their tail…..toe de Kock uit is
@Speartackle: O Ja..en dan na die “prinsipaal” toe hardloop as ek hom n lelike naam noem nie!…Hy het ander mense baie erger beledig volgens my!…
@BoishaaiPa: Eintlik is ou Bog n moerse nice ou in die regte lewe. Jy moet onthou jy gaan ook nog sy ouderdom bereik en ook so grumpy wees. Jy sal steeds nog net aan daai sin vir humor moet werk.
Ek sien ou Hercules het alweer verdwyn na daai Grey nederlaag….ai wat is dit met die Grey ouens en verloor?
@Speartackle: Kan jy dit glo?..Ek self het nie gedink ons sal daai telling kan verdedig nie. My gevoel is net dat die balans van daai span nie reg is nie..maak nie saak watter kleur die manne is nie…Balans tussen bat, ball en allrounders nie….So tyd terug was daar die kaliber van n Klusener, Pollock of Philander wat op 8 kom bat het…genuine allrounders..Nou is dit Phangiso?..Die man is n spinner wat hoogstens 10 moet bat..beslis nie 8 nie!
@Speartackle: Ek gee nie om wat ou Bog praat nie en hy kan my maar beledig nes hy wil..Hy moet net nie onskuld pleit die dag as ek hom uitvreet nie en dan die “Moral High Ground” wil claim nie!….Elkeen het maar sy eie manier op iemand sleg te se…ek is miskien net meer direk!
Ek en jy het al in elk geval baie erger as dit tekere gegaan…
@BoishaaiPa: Is jy ernstig? Het ons die krieket gewen gisteraand? Ek kyk nie meer kak nie
@BOG: As ek reg onthou het daai Booishaaiers my verskriklik beledig so paar jaar terug. Ek neem dit vreeslik persoonlik op…….maar jy ou Bog…..jy kan my maar slegsê…….ek waardeer dit…….jy het tog after all aan my al n huldeblyk gedoen.
Hierdie blog is vervelig sonder jou……..hierdie ander jafels kan dit nie handle dat jy kan rugby en stront praat………….en so bietjie politiek ook nog.
Jy is SBR se super all rounder
@Playa: He will find a reason why it was not a proper win.
@Playa: The silence is deafening..Providing “irrefutable” facts is obviously not good enough either. I rest my case Your Honour…
@BoishaaiPa: didn’t realise OFS was downgraded. Maybe time for Greyt to invest in future and get a few BEEE pupils from the start.
@BOG: Did you watch the cricket last night, Oom? 8 players of colour in that ODI team that beat the Aussies. Not too shabby for a country on the downward spiral following an Under 19 loss to Zim not so long ago
@Oakdale supporter: n Man moet maar eerder sy mond hou lyk dit my!..
@BoishaaiPa: Jy mors jou tyd. Ek het nog nooit iemand gesien wat so in die rondte redeneer en alles weet en altyd reg is nie.
Dit laat my dink aan die volgende storie.
As ‘n man altyd verkeerd is en ‘n vrou altyd reg is en die man sê vir die vrou sy is reg. Is hy reg of verkeerd
@BOG: I would personally say that the following one is probably a worse insult to someone than me calling you and Old Suur P….
” You are just blatantly stupid… You are pathetic and as in the past in Africa, the realities will soon dawn upon you. Ask those in Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia, Angola, Mozambique, Malawi. Crawl into your sewer and remain there until you smell the Doom.”
You dont need swearwords to be insulting!
@BOG: Yes, I thought you would side-step that matter because of your indirect methods of insulting people…Calling someone stupid or calling someone a P.. is still an insult…The method of delivery is just different. Only you would be able to justify calling someone stupid and to FO is not an insult…You asked for evidence..I delivered it…Asked the Bloggers themselves if they felt insulted.
@BOG: Wat jy nie kan insien of verstaan nie is dat OVS voor en na 1995 ongeveer presies dieslfde rekord op CW het tov finale bereik…Inteendeel..hulle het beter begin doen sedert 1995 en meer gewen as voor dit. Wie is die “hulle” waarvan jy so praat?…Hier is baie skole in Paarl en Stellenbosch wat sokker speel. Die Kaap het meer sokker klubs in Athlone alleen as wat die hele Vrystaat het!..
@BoishaaiPa: Are you really suggesting that those are insults? When I said those things to Roger in particular, I thought that I was paying him a compliment. If I wanted to insult him, I would have used much stronger language. And did you read their comments which preceded my comments? I dont think so.FO an insult? Or just your imagination? On the other hand, calling a person a p–s, is very clear
@BoishaaiPa: I did not say that if A beats B by X margin, then B, when playing C, will be beaten by that margin. There are too many external variables present to say that. And Im not stupid not to realize that. But taken over several years, it does confirm one thing- and that is the point Im trying to make, they would generally be competitive, playing against the schools of Durban. Furthermore, it is something which can be visibly confirmed too.@Speartackle: Ek moet maar versigtig wees wat ek vir jou se. Netnou word dit gebruik as bewys van my belediging(s), maar ek moet met jou saamstem. Sal dit nie snaaks wees as hulle in groot getalle begin sokker speel daar in die Paarl en op Stellenbosch nie? Dan sal hulle verstaan. After all, ons is in Afrika, waar iets eers verstaan word wanneer dit visueel waargeneem kan word.
@BOG: You wanted the evidence..and I will provide it for you..Calling someone Stupid, crawling back into your sewer..and telling someone to FO is perhaps not insulting someone from where you come from, but it sure as hell is from my point of view!..I called you straight and simple n old Suur P…Insulting someone takes on many forms and below are some examples!..Implying something is just as much an insult as saying something direct!…..
BOG on 10 May, 2016 @ 14:43
@boerboel: No, it goes far beyond pupils from my alma mater. It merely confirms that you do have your head up your arse .Signs of a smelly, dark and lonely life—
BOG on 10 May, 2016 @ 18:42
@Playa: Are you really suggesting that there was no political interference in the selection of the Springbok side over the last few years? You are probably the only one and perhaps old Roger@Roger: And your misguided intellectual opinion, spewed from the dark chalmbers of your inner being, accessible only via your arsehole? Pull out your head, give it a scrub and clout yourself. ….
BOG on 11 May, 2016 @ 08:33
@Roger: If you do not have the moral courage to speak out against an injustice, do not expect others to follow your pathetic and cowardly example. Your surname is not Bacher by any chance? Get your head out of your arsehole, go for counselling and try and use it- if anything is recoverable.Otherwise, crawl back under your rock.
BOG on 12 May, 2016 @ 16:32
@Ringo: I was going to suggest that you are politically naive. Clearly, Im wrong. You are just blatantly stupid… You are pathetic and as in the past in Africa, the realities will soon dawn upon you. Ask those in Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia, Angola, Mozambique, Malawi. Crawl into your sewer and remain there until you smell the Doom.
BOG on 12 May, 2016 @ 16:44
@Ringo: And given the absolute absence of substance in that what you are trying to say, Im reminded of what a labour lawyer told a trade union after long and meaningless exchanges- much like yours. He said to them: If this continues, you will leave me no option but to respond with two brief words, the first having a sexual connotation. Knowing that you are rather dof, let me provide you with an abbreviation as well: FO !!
If CW was picked on merit only then OFS will be right up there. They are the team that is most effected , Lions to a lesser degree and then teams like Leopards. Far North and Pumas very severely effected.
@BOG: That is just the point I am trying to make…comparing scores is NOT a good indicator of strength.
@beet: Valid point. I like the IPT hockey tournament where you have two sections with two pools each and a relegation/promotion system going. Its a very tough competition where there is not much between nr1 and 5.
Craven Week should do the same.
@BoishaaiPa: You are quite formidable- in twisting things. I said that the scores which I provided, were irrefutable facts. I also said that the schools in Bloemfontein, would be very competitive had they been in Durban- irrefutable fact. That does not suggest that they would win all their matches. But by comparing scores during a season, over several years, it does give you an indication of strength. And you really dont need to be Einstein to understand that. You persist in saying that I insulted other bloggers, but as yet, you have been unable to provide a single shred of evidence- irrefutable fact. Not petty?
@Speartackle:
No Bog is always very diplomatic and has more general knowledge than the average National Encyclopaedia on here.
Bog is the only man that I know of……that started at the bottom….and just went further down
By the same nature of clinical analysis I can also provide irrefutable fact that Bog insulted plenty of other bloggers, but I am not a petty man. I will let it slide into oblivion…
@BOG: Let me give you some real data, not thumbsuck data that you deem to be irrefutable fact. Since 2009 only HTS Louis Botha played any of the KZN schools..Sentraal and Jim Fouche did not play any of them..and here is the correct results..actual fact and not derived from some assumptions.
Date Team Opp For Against
2010/03/27 HTS Louis Botha Hilton 12 18
2011/04/02 HTS Louis Botha Michaelhouse 34 36
2012/03/26 HTS Louis Botha Westville BHS 13 20
2014/04/02 HTS Louis Botha Westville BHS 8 22
LB played 4 times against KZN opponents and lost all 4 !..Irrefutable fact!
Using your assumption and the data you provided..in 2012 Grey beat Westville 43-8 and LB 26-14..thus implying that by beating Westville by a greater margin than they did LB, LB should win comfortably against Westville!..Well..that did not happen and in 2014 the same thing!…
You assume to much!
@BoishaaiPa: Agreed, if that was the case Grey Bloem would beat KES by over 110 points! Although they might thinking about it…
@BOG: Comparing scores means absolutely sweet nothing…Remember the same Grey team that put 50 past Affies lost at Brug street to a team that just scraped home to Affies by 4 points…It is not even a decent indicator as there are way to many variables that influence outcomes.
@boerboel: With you I can understand that you are rather sensitive to the truth. You cant deny the facts, can you? How many Springboks did you count?@CharlesZA: I think that these comparisons is quite a revelation to some. If you want even more information, you will have to go and look for it.@Tarpeys: Where are you hiding? Come out and face the undeniable and irrefutable facts.
@BOG: the dribble streaming from boggie’s chin as he types these scores
@BOG: I am with you all the way on everything you state here…..You go Boggie
Any results over the years of them actually playing against those KZN teams?
@CharlesZA: Just a few random scores, and random selection of years, comparing GCB s results, between Bloem opponents and KZN oponents: 2002: Jim Fouche 40-6 ; Sentraal 36-3; Glenwood 31-9; Maritzburg Coll. 32-17. 2003: JF 34-13; MC 25-10; Sent. 47-0. 2004: JF 27-16; MC 32-10 2007: JF 50-6 Sent. 64-9, DHS 21-6, MC 86-3 2010: JF 59-8; LB 52-9, Kearsney 45-7; GW 16-9 2011: LB 54-14, 49-21, Kearsney 24-3, GW 28-6 2012: JF 17-7; LB 26-14; Kearsney 58-10, Westville 43-8 2013: JF 62-10 LB 43-0; GW 68-7. 2014: LB 44-27, Sent. 34-0, Westville 32-8, MC 46-20
@Tarpeys: Not that Im concerned about your opinion, but to begin with, may I suggest to you, that you rinse your mouth- with Jik. Secondly, if you offer an opinion,however misplaced, at least try and support it with something, preferably by some facts. But in order to do that, you need to take your head out of the sand. @CharlesZA: Im looking over a period of time, not necessarily this year only. The points difference between GCB and the Bloem schools, is not all that different from the matches between GCB and the schools in Durban. And again, Im looking over a period of time, rather than just this year.
Just attended the Lions vs Leopards trial game. The Leopards got slaughtered in all 4 the senior games. Best result for Leopards was in the A team where they lost 35 – 7. Lions A played poorly and should have won by at least 50. B team Lions won 50 – 0 and could easily have beaten the Leopard’s A team with 30 points. C and D teams also won easily. Leopards team will not be competitive at Cravenweek. Lions missed their injured players. The Helpies 15 who played 10 was brilliant and made sure the Lions A score looks respectable.
@BOG: Can you give an example of a good result of one of those teams this year that would show they can compete in KZN?
@BOG: Jee you talk a lot of kak!! My gosh!!
@Grasshopper: The point Im trying to make, is this.Even if the crowds were on average 10000, it still does not mean that there is not an overall decline in numbers, despite it being popular at certain schools, in certain areas. It is however frightening to see how many schools, where rugby only was played, particularly primary schools, now play soccer only. Otherwise I agree that school rugby as opposed to CW, is more popular now, for the reasons you have mentioned.
@BOG: Crowds of 5,000 in KZN derbies are the norm, if not getting bigger as School rugby increases in popularity. I would think it’s because quotas do not apply at school, yet. So teams are the best in each school…
@beet: You talk about strengthening the Bloemfontein league, but I would suggest that several of the Bloemfontein schools, such as Sentraal, Jim Fouche , LB, even St Andrews and Fichardtpark, would be very competitive, had they been in Durban. Perhaps things will start leveling out as more and more young people in the WC, EC, KZN, Boland, SWD start playing soccer rather than rugby. And if the trend in some regions is anything to go by, this is not impossible. I heard a commentator on TV- in the studio- saying, “We are losing numbers”. I agree. Look at the number of spectators at CW- hardly a crowd. If we allow ourselves to believe that the comments and enthusiasm here is an indication of a big following, we are fooling ourselves.Even crowds of 5000 and the occasional 10-20 000, should not unduly excite us. And the more political interference we have with selection criteria, the quicker this trend will be.
@BoishaaiPa: very unofficial is I have heard Wian van Zyl has serious elbow injury. Is this correct?
@Speartackle: very brave statements made here…..Last year’s CW people talked up EP so much then culled!
Look I’ve said before that the format of the CW needs to be looked at. There are a number of warm up games in regions that should be used to rate/rank the teams and set up Day 1 and Day 2 CW matches that offer those that show promise a better chance of advancing to the “semis” and “final” at CW.
In recent seasons Free State has been downgraded. They no longer play in one of the two last games on Day 1 or Day 2, making it extra difficult for them to play in an unofficial semifinal now, particularly if the two winning teams that play after them on either Day 1 or Day 2 play decent rugby.
With CW quota now 10 out of 23, we are edging closer to calling the FS team Louistaat not Greystaat and with that their chances of success at CW based on the strength and over-dependence on Louis Botha is diminishing, especially when Louis Botha don’t produce competitive 1st XVs yet are called on to supply 10 CW players – more players than many top performing teams from other regions. No doubting the strength of Grey College tho. FS needs to start looking at how they can improve the strength of the Bloemfontein league with more PD players involved. KZN also has it tough finding PD players but at least we have about 10 schools to select such players from and these schools give players exposure by competing actively both inside and outside the province against decent opponents. Look at the WP list above. Schools like Gimmies, Paul Roos, SACS and BL are all top outfits but won’t provide as many players to WP as LB does to FS.
I think we’ve seen good progress in the SA Schools selection process. Top players are being identified ahead of the CW however there is opportunity for those that shine at CW to play themselves into contention as well and it certainly helps to be on a winning team as its often attacking attributes rather than solid defense that catches a selector’s eye. The Bulls have recognised this and their efforts to address quota may not be everybody’s cup of team and might even be viewed as sidestepping the intention of quota but it does at least offer their players a chance to shine in a highly competitive team. Something FSRU might have to pay closer attention to???
@OudUppie:
Vrystaat speel Griekwas as voorwedstryd en eers dan die 17de Griffons in Kimberley.
@BOG: Tikfoutjie inderdaad
@OudUppie: Ek neem aan dat dit n tikfoutjie is, maar met van die bloggers hier in gedagte,neem ek aan jy verwys na die Saxons en nie die SEXons nie.
@Speartackle:
I don’t think the OFS team will be all that bad, warmups will tell what the team is made of.
@boerboel: Die “Grey/OVS spannetjie” soos jy neerhalend en minagtend na hulle verwys, het nogal nie te sleg gevaar in die laaste paar dekades nie, veral nie toe CW spanne uitsluitlik op meriete gekies is nie. Jy kan maar die rekords gaan naslaan, en terwyl jy daarmee besig is, kyk sommer hoeveel Springbokke is oor die jare- dws sedert die 60s, deur hulle opgelewer.Maar te oordeel aan jou kommentaar, sal jy miskien hulp benodig met die tellery.
Reken die WP gaan moeilik geklop word, maar moenie die Greystaat te vroeg afskryf nie. Hulle speel Vrydag ‘n voorwedstryd teen Griffons vir SA A vs Sexons. Sal dan ‘n beter idee kry van hul sterkte.
@BOG: @Speartackle: The question mark rules it out as a statement, and turns it into a ponder gentlemen
Beet – To avoid further backlash from Tranvaalers, Borderers, and KZners, please edit to “WP – 2016 COULD THIS BE THE Craven Week champions elect?”
@Speartackle: This write up was done by Beet…ask him!
@Speartackle: Greystaat!!!
arme BOG-sy ou GREY/OVS spannetjie sal seker maar weer die dewseeper rol speel die laaste saterdag
Is OFS not participating this year as I see according to the write up they are not considered to feature anywhere?
Why would WP play Boland on day 1of CW if they already play a practice trial match against them as well as the Coastal Tournament?.. Makes no sense!
Very presumptuous comment as heading. Remember, they are playing in KZN, and that there are a few other teams present as well.
@beet: Yes, dit is baie ongelukkig. Soos ek verstaan sou Wian gister ‘n elmboogoperasie ondergaan.
@TheGoose: @Naastrolia: As far as I’m aware that is the provisional team and not the final team.
Also heard that Wian van Zyl might be out injured. Good player so very unfortunate.
This should be a very strong team as it is combined out of 4 from the top 10 rugby schools in the country.I hope they keep up with the achievements of 2015
@TheGoose: Sjoe Goose…..daai is een etter wetter span…..dink hulle sal die Bokkies a go gee
Thats correct.
http://www.rugby15.co.za/2016/06/western-province-u18-craven-week-team/
The first of each position look like the CW Team:
1 Andre Booysen Paarl Gim
2 Daniel Jooste HJS Paarl BH
3 Adam Neethling HJS Paarl BH
4 Ben-Jason Dickson Paul Roos
5 Salmaan Moerat HJS Paarl BH
6 Charl Serdyn HJS Paarl BH
7 Muller Uys Paarl Gim
8 Khanya Ncusane HJS Paarl BH
9 Zak Burger Paarl Gim
10 Damian Willemse Paul Roos
11 Mike Mavovana Rondebosch
12 Henco Marais Boland Landbou
13 Manny Rass HJS Paarl BH
14 Muller du Plessis Paarl Gim
15 Gianni Lombard HJS Paarl BH