Maritzburg College scouts asked to leave Glenwood u13 festival

Friday, 27 March. Glenwood made a bold stand to protect their financial investment and related marketing benefits by asking two Maritzburg College staff members to leave the Glenwood premises where the under-13 festival is taking place. The two College officials, did not breach any rules or conduct themselves in an unacceptable manner during almost an hour at the ground before they were ejected. A Northwood rugby official was however allowed to stay.

It’s unusual for a high school to organise a primary school festival so the accepted under-13 scouting practices are unclear.

FROM GLENWOOD:

“In the past certain KZN High Schools have used the Glenwood High School Primary Festival to approach and recruit players. Last (year) a school used our tuck shop to set up shop and approach players and parents. Glenwood has decided that for the 2015, local high schools may not use the festival as a marketing exercise for their cause.

On day one of our festival we had four High Schools arrive with the intention of approaching players. One school was allegedly seen entering our boarding establishment. The situation above was explained to them and they all left the school. There was no animosity or tension and the staff involved understood and respected our decision.”

Prior to the festival starting the following was blogged:

KZN high school recruiters are expected to be out in numbers to view the talent taking part in the annual GLENWOOD HIGH SCHOOL PHOTONOTE TOSHIBA U13 RUGBY FESTIVAL 2015  on from 27 – 29 March 2015. The highly sort after players from Dale Primary in King William’s Town are expected to be amongst the high school target acquisitions for 2016. There are also a number of other top out of province primary schools in action.

PARTICIPATING SCHOOLS

DURBAN TEAMS
Amanzimtoti Primary
Durban Preparatory (DPHS) x2
Glenwood Preparatory
KZN Development
Penzance Primary

VISITING TEAMS
Dale College Boys’ Primary (Eastern Cape)
Egerton Primary (Ladysmith)
George Randall Primary (East Londen)
Laerskool Bergland (Nelspruit)
Laerskool Concordia (Boksburg)
Laerskool Dalview (Brakpan)
Laerskool Elarduspark (Pretoria)
Monument Primary (Ladysmith)
Pelham Primary (Pietermaritzburg)
Richards Bay Primary (Richards Bay)
Sisonke Schools (Greater Kokstad)
Scottburgh Primary (Scottburgh)
Stirling Primary (East London)
Umhlali Primary (Umhlali)

Format
Each team will play 5 matches (15 minutes per half):
27 March 2015, one game.
28 March 2015, two games.
29 March 2015, two games.
All fixtures will be completed by 13:00 on Sunday.

Friday, 27 March 2015:

TIME DIXONS BASSONS MADSENS
14:30 Dale vs Monument KZN Dev vs Bergland DPHS 2 vs Amanzimtoti
15:05 Umhlali vs Scottburgh Sisonke vs Penzance Richards Bay vs Egerton
15:40 Dalview vs DPHS 1 Pelham vs Elarduspark
16:15 Concordia vs Stirling Glenwood Prep vs George Randall

Saturday, 28 March 2015: Fixtures to be announced

  • Second round of fixtures (08:30 – 10:25)
  • Third round of fixtures (11:00 – 13:35)

Sunday, 29 March 2015: Fixtures to be announced

  • Fourth round of fixtures (08:00 – 09:55)
  • Fifth round of fixtures (10:30 – 12:25)

148 Comments

  1. Eish beet…the only time I accept a headache in the morning is when it is my own doing from the night before…you have just caused me one :(

    A word of advice for the ‘recruiters’…focus only on Dale at your own peril…a lot of talented boys from Stirling swop their green stripes for black ones in Grade 8…they are a force down in Frontier Country, just ask the college prep schools. I am not knowledgeable of the quality of most schools on there, but if Dale Junior do well, so should they. :wink:

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  2. Not very nice of them. I think the laaities from up north is safe from the GW wolves. A parent must be pretty desperate to send an Afrikaans speaking boy of 14 to an English school 600km’s from home when you can send the laaitie to a TOP academic institute(with top sporting facilities), in his home language, around the corner.

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  3. @Grasshopper: That’s the least of your problems as a Glenwood old boy.Your matric results speak for themselves.What is not clear is why staff members of what should be a ‘brother school’ are being escorted out of the school’s premises.

    As an outsider…first thing that sprang to mind is, maybe the ‘scheduling’ issue which led to the second leg of the College-Glenwood fixture being canned this year may well just be some PR exercise.

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  4. Shame, Glenwood seem so unfairly exposed when in fact they are supplying a tremendous service to all Rugbykind. Beet you don’t think your reporting may be biased?

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  5. What is it with some College Old Boys, harping on about Afrikaans kids at Glenwood, nearly all the schools have Afrikaans, Zulu & Xhosa kids, what difference does it make? Their parents obviously want them educated in English. As for escorting, it was probably more likely asked to leave. Why should College or any other school benefit from an event run and paid for by Glenwood? If they watching innocently without ‘clip boards’ then fine, but they were probably actively chatting to boys & parents. You don’t see Glenwood teachers at other schools ‘open days’, this is both a great place for boys to play against other schools from around the country but also for Glenwood to showcase their facilities etc…

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  6. @Grasshopper:

    I can confirm first hand – plenty of Afrikaans speakers at College. And nothing wrong with that – and neither is their anything wrong with it at Glenwood.

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  7. Nothing new here. A certain Westville recruiter has been kicked out of this festival for years. He even took to disguising himself as a Society Referee to gain an advantage over other recruiters. Nothing quite like saying “Penalty against 9 – offside. No 6 – Please come and see me afterwards. I’ve got a letter to give to your Dad”. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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  8. Here is a scenario, imagine Unilever taking some marketing graduates around their offices to have P&G bosses sitting at desks asking students to come and speak with them…..just not on….

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  9. Imagine Unilever having a recruitment day under the guise of a free product sampling open to the public, only to evict certain members of the public that work for P&G.

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  10. Well if this isn’t the pot calling the kettle black then I don’t know what is. Who will be the next school to cancel their fixture against Purchasewood?

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  11. @Bonthuis: Bonty is back! US time again. Mate Westville give out about 80 bursaries a year, that is buying success. Glenwood give out around 50. The Westville B team swimmers are even on bursaries……pot/kettle…..remember it’s fair game at grade 8 level….

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  12. Why go to all this trouble if the plan is to enhance the teams during the age group progression. Surely a /16 festival makes more sense.

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  13. @akw:

    Heard a rumour that GW has decided to stop all recruitment after Gr8. It is only a rumour though. Time will tell……….

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  14. @GreenBlooded: That would be good news. Recruit well and appoint good coaches for all age group teams is the way to sustainable excellence. Recruitment after Gr 8 always felt like a short term gain, long term pain solution.

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  15. @Grasshopper: @McCulleys Workshop: That’s the issue then, isn’t it. Is it a festival, just like KERF, or is it a recruitment exercise. I have no issue either way, but then make it clear to all other schools that their staff are not allowed on the premises, and give the attendees a hint to the same. And then treat all scouts equally, or do the gents at Glenwood only see certain schools as needing to be barred, such as College not allowed but Northwood fine?

    Add the nuance to it, should schools ban scouts on their big derby days, so nobody from selected schools to the College vs KES match on Goldstones in case a school has their eye on a promising U15 or U16. It sounds silly but if the Glenwood festival isn’t a recruitment exercise then there’s not a lot of difference. To me it’s just an indication of how utterly out of hand this whole thing has got, that 100 year old relationships are strained by this. Shame, I wonder what gentlemen like Skonk and his contemporaries would have to say.

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  16. @Gungets Tuft: Agree, but unfortunately these days it’s become professional with alot of money at stake, so these guys are acting like a business to protect their interest. I can tell you Toppy at Glenwood shakes his head in shame….

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  17. @Gungets Tuft:

    The counter-arguement would be that if you are a recruiter and you are going to another schools festival with the intention of recruiting or talent scouting then you should at least do the hosts the courtesy of informing them of your presence and your intentions and asking if it is okay.

    My guess is that the College chaps were identifiable and the Northwood guys were more incognito……. :roll: No reason for there not to be consistency.

    But in the big picture – I agree with you. Things are getting more and more ridiculous by the day. I fear that this game we all love will one day consume itself by the tail. Would love to go back to the days where you went to school and played 1st team if you were good enough, had fun on the field with your mates, went to London Town Pub after match, drank beer and chased skirt, the scrum laws were simple, the breakdown wasn’t legislated into oblivion like it is today and there was no pre-match paperwork. Those were the days…….

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  18. @GreenBlooded: I wonder how the organizers at KERF will react to recruiters?

    In the “good old days” recruitment was common, high school coaches went to primary school games and spoke to parents, but it just seems that in those days it was in the interests of the kids. There was mutual respect between coaches and schools that seems to have been sacrificed in this drive for top school status. We’ve discussed it to death here, so not going there again. Every now and again I am reminded how far we haven’t come, and have a little twinge of nostalgia. Probably advancing age and selective memory, but I can’t shake the feeling that we’re not better off. It might be better for the few that go from school to a pro rugby career, perhaps the extras (lower teams – and no disrespect meant, just that they are unlikely to get a curtain call or an Oscar) actually don’t notice and don’t care, and just play. We probably don’t talk to them enough to know. I had about 20 at home last night but they were not slightly worried about the rugby. They certainly are not in showroom condition this morning, I will avoid anything that needs more than a grunt as an answer :roll: :mrgreen:

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  19. @Gungets Tuft:

    I think the difference with the KERF is that there will be no downside for the hosts as recruiters will be looking for school leavers – not potential stars arriving. Ditto for all the other festivals. Same applies for High School coaches going to primary school matches. The Glenwood situation is unique in that it is a festival for potential recruits at their school. Perhaps what should happen is that all the major schools co-host this festival – preferably at a neutral venue – and then let the scouts roam freely.

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  20. @Gungets Tuft: @GreenBlooded: I think scouting is part and parcel of any school rugby festival. You can go to any number of u13 festivals and you will see scouts watching, talking to parents/players, having meetings, exchanging details etc etc

    Based on these norms, scouts have every right to assume Glenwood festival is no different. The onus is on Glenwood to make scouts aware that they are not welcomed. Define the rules.

    Glenwood sent these festival details out to websites based around the country as part of their marketing when in fact everything about it suggests it should be a low key right of admission reserved for participating school staff and player family members only type affair.

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  21. I have obtained this from Glenwood which I will add to the post above.

    To a degree it explains why they have taken action and also importantly points out that there was no animosity.

    “In the past certain KZN High Schools have used the Glenwood High School Primary Festival to approach and recruit players. Last (year) a school used our tuck shop to set up shop and approach players and parents. Glenwood has decided that for the 2015, local high schools may not use the festival as a marketing exercise for their cause.

    On day one of our festival we had four High Schools arrive with the intention of approaching players. One school was allegedly seen entering our boarding establishment. The situation above was explained to them and they all left the school. There was no animosity or tension and the staff involved understood and respected our decision.”

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  22. @Gungets Tuft: the use of “allegedly” in this particular case takes a lot of weight away from the statement. Glenwood surely knows the facts and should have made that statement more definitive or stated that it was an error made. The result is a situation where another KZN school has been implicated as the culprits.

    Hopefully I can get an official statement from the school “alleged” to have been seen entering the Glenwood BE.

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  23. @GreenBlooded: I spent the day at the U13 tournament and there was some pretty good rugby. There were several players that stood out yesterday. The 8 from Richards Bay was outstanding. From a team perspective the Arboretum team, coached by Marius Jonker, were brilliant. They lack a little depth but played a lovely brand. Almost every other team had a big 8 and 12. Not Arboretum. Their guys were small and fast. They lost 7-0 to DPHS.

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  24. @umbiloburger: I am so happy to hear that.Being a u13 coach myself there is far to much emphasis on winning.At u13 level you can win most games if you have got a big number 8 and flyhalf/centre.Our rugby suffers from it.Instead of the most skillful players being picked we pick guys who can run over others.
    Beet you being the font of all knowledge do you have any stats as to how many players who go to U13 craven week make it to U18 craven week.My guess very few.

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  25. @umbiloburger:

    With a guy like Marius Jonker coaching them they woudl have to be good. Does that mean he has another lighty coming through the ranks?

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  26. @Grasshopper: Everybody knows Purchasewood have taken it to a whole new level, bringing players in for specific games etc. Funny, haven’t heard of too many schools wanting to withdraw their fixtures against Westville! Who will be the next to stop playing you guys??

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  27. @GreenBlooded: No, just a daughter. But there are several of his team going to GW in 2016. They have a very talented 2&3 and a small 7 that is incredible. But the Richards Bay 8 is something else. I realized something this morning that these outlying kids are the cream of our talent. Yes DPHS and Glenwood Prep have some good players, but they still rely on the big 8&12 to win games. IMO these outlying lightness could dominate the U13 Craven week selections…..but let’s see!!!

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  28. @umbiloburger:

    Well good on him for continuing to coach the lighties up that way even without a son involved. Always enjoy seeing him at the U13 festival – reffing the odd match barefoot. Alongside Craig Joubert – he is one of the very few top referees who has kept his feet on planet earth and is happy to have a chat to lesser mortals. Top bloke.

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  29. Does anybody remember a prominent Grant Khomo Under 16 lad from College being picked up from the Clark House Boarding Establishment at College a few years back…….by a Glenwood staff member in a Glenwood mini bus? The same boy threw a punch at an ex team mate on live TV two years after having been literally kidnapped! Now that is recruiting at its very best! I just hope that the College boarder masters who do the sign outs after the 1st team game on a Saturday are not thrown out of Glenwood because they arrive with clipboards?!!!!!!!

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  30. @Grasshopper: Because then we would be lower than you, Greenblooded, Umbilo and the rest of the gang who love to take jabs at Westville at every opportunity.

    You should move the school up to Hillcrest, you’d be better off in the long run!

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  31. @Bonthuis: boet, I lived in Westville for 15 years, have 2 brother in-laws, 10 or more friends & a cousin who went to Westville, it’s a great school. It’s all banter….you take it one step further than banter…

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  32. @Grasshopper: Boet, we don’t care where you lived and who your cousins are and that your Dad went to DHS and you finished in ’96 etc. You the one who gets so easily offended, it’s give and take, don’t make waves if you can’t surf!

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  33. @chopper:

    I saw him playing in a Premier Div match in 2013 for Collegians. I have to say that his front row team mate who’s name escapes me now earned the red card on that outing. He’s still a great player. As I recall he scrummed like a demon and finished off a nice try.

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  34. @Grasshopper: Bored of you too, wish you didn’t have to comment on every single post, it’s the same underlying message over and over again…

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  35. @beet: @Gungets Tuft: @GreenBlooded: I still don’t get it, a rugby festival is a rugby festival and open to the public and for that matter scouts from other schools, this is not the prohibition era. Put your best foot forward in marketing your school, and let others play a role in identifying talent. It is what it is, and it is a public affair. The thought that interested parties are not allowed to attend is fascinating. I understand that it seems a little cavalier for a school to set up a marketing stand without consent, outside of that I don’t get it. This sense of ownership is trivial at best. Poach players from MHS, or entice them from their feeders if you will, the institutions, parent and old boys bodies are bigger than that.

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  36. @McCulleys Workshop:

    It’s not a public affair. It is on school premises where right of admission is reserved. Glenwood spend money to host the tournament. In return they expect to get some marketing mileage out of the exercise and to have and exclusive first bite at the proverbial cherry without having to fight against other schools having a free ride. I know it sounds ruthless – but any businessman worth his salt will understand this. Having said this – I think the whole recruitment business is disgusting and the sooner it ends at all levels the better for us all.

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  37. The only other option is to convert this into rugby trials for Grade 8 bursaries to Glenwood, and as such it is a private affair, just market the event as such.

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  38. @McCulleys Workshop: i attended days 1 and 3 of this festival and there were plenty talented youngsters. I did not carry a clipboard and was not dressed in any school attire…..hence i was allowed to stay :wink: My concern is that there were more than enough quality players on show who would benefit from getting a scolarship at any of the kzn schools. The ones that were not approached by Glenwood would have benefited from the excluded scouts approaching them….. some boys were lucky to get the “green man of the match envelope” others who played well walked away empty handed….. at the end of the day it makes sense if a Pelham boy (hypothetical example) approached by Glenwood decides to go to College due to obvious reasons but are now blocked from that opertunity by the Glenwood sanctions….. but then again the master in charge of each school rugby is reflected in the program with a contact number for parents to phone…. pitty college could not watch any of the boys play :mrgreen:

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  39. @GreenBlooded: Be bold enough to market this as an exclusive recruitment and rugby bursary drive by Glenwood and don’t call this a festival, if it’s not. Surely you should have the balls to back the credentials of your 100 + year old school with good tradition and facilities and not stoop to these levels of insecurity.

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  40. I personally think it cuts both ways. I agree that as a Glenwood HIGH festival – they have the right to call the shots on recruiters.

    If another school is going to be looking to recruit – it is probably best to be open up front – and also circumspect about how it is done – BE entry does not sound acceptable. That said – I’m sure the College (or any other school) could probably get tapes or reports from other parental or OB scouts if needed – and then target bthose boys elsewhere. I’m sure the parents of the best guys are going to be having a few of these offers in the next 4 or 5 months.

    Stopping spectators merely because they are staff from another school – probably not on – because equally a staff member from a E Cape or Gauteng school may well be there – but an “unknown” entity.

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  41. @chopper: Why does it concern you what language is spoken? Seems to me there is an issue that GW have Afrikaans, Xhosas and Zulus there. The days of Lilly white schools in the last outpost is long gone my mate. GW is proud of their demographics.

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  42. @Bonthuis: How did the new GW recruits do for the “ville” on Saturday. Both bursary boys poached last year and you harp on about GW. Now that’s the pot & kettle story!!! :oops:

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  43. @chopper</@chopper: I remember that player….but I can’t remember if that was before or after Claud Dryer and Coffee Apiah were recruited from GW by the same school. I Think before!!

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  44. @McCulleys Workshop:

    Ideally this should be a tournament hosted by the union where all the talent scouts can come along and ply their trade. That would require some additional effort from the union officials which is about as realistic as commercial space travel or Julius joining the DA.

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  45. @GreenBlooded: Be carefull what you say about realistic things. Julius actually formed da EEF.

    If I were an ethics judge, and I am not, I would rule in favour of Glenwood on this matter. If you organise a tournament, common decency would exclude any other schools from organising a recruitment party to hijack the festivities. If the recruiting party is there to watch rugby, make mental notes and then approach the individuals later, that would be a different matter.

    This just shows how murky the recruitment under world has become!

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  46. @kosie: I just wish these ‘scouts’, teachers, headmasters and coaches could step back a bit and remember these are just children. It’s actually quite pathetic how it’s become almost ‘life or death’ to get a particular player, just to fill a gap of perceived ‘weakness’. I loved the days of natural peaks and troughs (more troughs in my case) for schools, because when you did have a good year it made even more exciting to win a game vs College etc. Victory was truly savoured. These days it’s like OK we bought the best team so expect to win. Weirdly I quite enjoyed the Glenwood loss to Kearsney, an almost coming down to earth episode. You see you can’t buy ‘spirit’, ‘brotherhood’, playing for your mates, playing for the badge etc. Glenwood by no means was a ‘powerhouse’ for 90 years, but they had some great individuals in those years and a handful of great years. Those teams and players are the ones we all remember. To be honest in the past ten years I can’t even remember which of the sides were ‘great’, but I certainly know about 1965, 1979 & 2000. Those 3 years were awesome! Also, memories of derby fixtures were we won when the serious underdog. I know it’s too late to go back to this and the ‘big wigs’ will say things have changed, but I don’t buy it.

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  47. @GreenBlooded: Ummmm .. http://www.spacex.com/ … a PBHS kid might prove you wrong on one point, but it does have a much bigger chance of becoming reality than the Union adding real value to school sport.

    The whole thing is a storm in a teacup. Whether Glenwood feel they have an exclusive right to kids at the tournament they host or not, we have to be pretty naive to think that parents of talented kids think this is the only show in town. By the end of Grade 6 the parents of talented kids have already prepared a CV and are looking for promising schools, applying at many of them – and that’s been happening for a while – at least as far back as 2005, from personal experience.

    For the rest, the 11/15 in each squad, they are sending their kids to play rugby without a thought to scouts and recruitment, pocket money and free flights. If they haven’t made theor regional teams they are going to have to pay their own tuck shop account. :roll:

    And as you pointed out in our discussion, it’s not as if the College pair blend in easily to their surroundings :mrgreen: :lol: :mrgreen:

    More seriously though – if Glenwood are going to ban all other schools from sending representatives, to be fair on the 4/15, say it on the programme, make sure that the parents know that it’s a closed tournament and a Glenwood High open day for prospective pupils, the parents might want to arrange hostage negotiators 8-O 8) :mrgreen:

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  48. @Rugger fan: I tend to agree on your first point

    @kosie: I agree

    I just think its clear that this festival has a motive and it comes at a cost to Glenwood. It isn’t drawing in the crowds and selling hamburgers and buddy cokes for the school kitty so Glenwood must dump the marketing they tried to generate out of it and rather style it a private event by invitation only.

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  49. @Gungets Tuft:

    In a related story – some breaking news just in on the wires:

    Police were called to a block of flats in McDonald Rd Glenwood on Sunday morning where residents reported seeing a tall well built man with a beard on the roof of the block. How he got onto the roof is still sketchy – but he was reported to be wearing a Westville Boys High golf shirt. He was arrested on suspicion of being a ‘peeping Tom’ but subsequent investigations revealed that he was simply watching rugby at Glenwood High School. A telescope, clipboard, referee’s whistle, cellphone and 2 way radio were returned to the man and he was released without charge.

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  50. @GreenBlooded: If you are that hardup to get to see that action, it would be much easier to get permission from the town council to erect a temporary advertising tower with a platform on the middelmannetjie of Alan Paton Road. You would actually have an advantage and the school could do nothing about it.

    It would however be wrong to do that.

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  51. @GreenBlooded: Apparently the GeeJays reported a very successful free performance to the boys in the BE on Saturday evening … they are returning today to pick up all their kit, apparently the van was too full to fit it in on Saturday evening .. :roll:

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  52. @umbiloburger: Who will be the next school to withdraw their fixtures against Glenwood?? I haven’t heard of any Westville fixtures being withdrawn??

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  53. @kosie: In that case – I’m very worried about Glenwood. They had plastered the road leadin up to St Mary’s School for Girls recently advertising their open day :lol: :evil:

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  54. @Bonthuis: I’m not sure. I don’t really care either. Hilton withdrew because of the men vs boys thing….Selborne withdrew because of another boy that they thought had gone to GW (not Bossr as that was resolved) but it has since surfaced that the boy is actually at Wesville playing 1stXI. Probably joined all the Hudson Park boys. Anyway I am all over this thing. How did the junior tea,s do against College? GW are up against them first up next term.

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  55. This is a bit shocking. Affies has an u.15 tournament, named after the late Francois Swart. Lots of scouts around, but to my knowledge Affies never asked anybody to leave.

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  56. @Djou: The question is not if scouts, recruiters, agents or facilitators may attend or not, the question should be what is acceptable behaviour at a tournament by said people. As mentioned before, common decency should prevail at any tournament and do any marketing after the event.

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  57. @Djou: remember, these kids are not at Glenwood yet, Glenwood are hosting the tournament. Doesn’t seem ‘shocking’ to me, seems clever. Host the tourno and expose the school to the next breed of grade 8’s.

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  58. @Grasshopper: So what will happen if all schools start hosting u.13 tournaments and ask opposition schools’ officials to leave. Seems a bit like “apartheid” rules. You are not free to attend rugby matches at opposition schools.

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  59. @kosie: Glenwood management and common decency are not synonymous, try another approach, that one isn’t working.

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  60. @Djou: It seems like an inferiority complex to me, the drum roll of GW’s success in all fields of life rattles across these pages regularly and it is a fair reflection. Be brave enough to believe your own marketing, if you are the best, boys will want to attend the esteemed school, and the others will only pick at the scraps! Affies are bold enough to believe in their own pedigree and don’t need to evict scouts.

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  61. @McCulleys Workshop: I was thinking the same thing. However, to take the absurdity of this further – notwithstanding Gelnwood’s explanation – when for instance the Free State hosted the Craven week for u.13’s – all the high schools all over the country who attended for purposes of recruitment were allowed. They did not limit attendance to Grey and other Bloem high schools.

    So, if all the logistics Glenwood mentioned were a problem, they could have laid down some ground rules that would have eliminated the “not-so-orderly” conduct, but still allowing the other schools to attend, thereby making it a true festival rather than a recruitment monopoly.

    I might be wrong in my reasoning, but it is just an opinion.

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  62. @umbiloburger: To be honest not great results for Westville this year vs College, watched a few of the games and a dramatic turnaround from last year when Westville lost 2 or 3 games in the entire fixture list. Appears as though it’s going to be a challenging year for Westville!

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  63. @Djou: not being funny, but if it’s Glenwood’s festival hosted on Glenwood’s field I think they have the right to do what they want. I think schools scouts or recruiters should respect that and not actively recruit boys there. If they want to watch then come in civilian clothes and just watch. Those scouts could easily contact their targets later and wow them when they attend their school for an open day….

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  64. @McCulleys Workshop: not every school has a book and a few movies with John Cleese to promote the school :wink:
    MHS sells itself on the facilities alone, but not everyone is in the R210k a year league!

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  65. GCB has an u13 festival on at the moment, apparently parents, supporters and anyone else interested in rugby, whatever their reasons, are welcome. Note to all interested parties, there are many schools that host various rugby days and festivals down here in the WC at the moment as well, and here too anyone is welcome, at least it ensures a crowd.

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  66. @Djou: Would it not be decent to announce your intentions before arriving. In that manner GW could have asked for them not to attend. But to just arrive, as the schools did, and to just start approaching kids is unacceptable.

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  67. @Grasshopper: Are we sure the College men were all “branded up”, and were the guys that stormed the Bastille in uniform.

    Teacup stuff, recruitment for College comes almost exclusively from our traditional feeders, but increasingly from the Highway area where old boys have settled and their boys are attracting their mates to College. Not too many from the attending schools. DPHS, Pelham are traditional feeders, Umhlali is also a source of boys. It’s not hard to get to see those boys play, so I can’t imagine the College men left with much regret. They might actually have been scouting for tips on running a tuck shop, or the supplier for the boerie rolls on match days … :mrgreen:

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  68. @Rugger fan: i still have not fully digested the only zarm i ever ate, and that was on the 150th Reunion Day!!! The orange tile adhesive/cheese mixture will haunt me till my dying day

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  69. @Dixon’s: DO.NOT.DIS.OUR.ZARM…

    And never mention it in the same sentence as a miserable toasted cheese blob. Phooey man… 8-O :twisted:

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  70. @Gungets Tuft: but… if you are the kind of oke that actually likes eating Zarms… you are one hard tough slightly mental SOB…. probably why i never came within 40 points of any College team i played against. come to think of it, i actually got more stitches than points across the road on those pieces of rock with lines painted on them. i think my one toenail is still on Barns field having come off on the long walk back to changerooms. but now the truth has come out.. you college okes have been colluding with the refs for years!!!! in PMB and in Durban!!!!

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  71. @Dixon’s: Collusion is such a … um … criminal word. We didn’t collude, we “influenced”. We just told them that if we were disappointed in any way that their lunch was an assortment of Zarms ..

    As for the toenail on Barns … phooey man, we used to find spleens lying there from the Voories okes .. they just always tried that much harder .. :mrgreen: :roll: :twisted:

    Edit – I think you’ve got your fields mixed up. Barns is one up from Papes Astro. The fields across the road are Lamonds, Leaches and Nicholsons. We advertise that Leaches was named after a former master, but it’s actually from the beasties that slither up from the Dusi ..

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  72. @umbiloburger: No, why would the Blue Bulls scouts let the Sharks academy know that they are attending a Westville – Glenwood game or the KERF, which is part and parcel of the Sharks Academy recruitment drive. Contrary to popular belief Glenwood doesn’t own people nor the sport of Schoolboy Rugby. If any of this was defendable at all, it would be because of the etiquette shown by Glenwood staff over the last 8 years, it doesn’t really exist in the arena that we are talking about, and we all know it so don’t defend a moral code that doesn’t exist.

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  73. @Grasshopper: you have a point, although Hilton, Kearsney, Clifton, St Johns, St Stithians, St Andrews and Bishops could all afford to send marauding scouts our way, and we are chasing a limited pool of users due to the costs. So what, let them. Why don’t Affies or Grey have insomnia over this issue, because boys want to be there, klaar. It’s all about the brand…

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  74. @Gungets Tuft: I was playing tighthead for the mighty 7th XV, loosehead for College was a chinese guy who had a good 20 to 30kgs over me and apparently played under 16a the year before. During one scrum he crushed my foot. I didnt really feel it afterwards because we where getting klapped properly Standing behind the poles didnt make the pain seem that bad. But after the game you had to cross the road to get to the changerooms next to Barns field. By the time I got there my toe was killing me and while hobbling along my toenail came off on Barns. Still aches a bit everytime I come to College

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  75. @Dixon’s: Hahaha, we will have to have a pot one day and see if we can find the Chinese okes name, the year should do it. I have records of all the school starters up till 1988.

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  76. Problem with all of this is that it just seems so ironic having Glenwood complaining about College recruiting after all that Purchasewood have been up to the last few years and schools refusing to play them etc. you only have to speak to the College coaches to realize how ridiculous this whole debacle is.

    Hopefully Trevor Kevin or whatever his name is will soon be on his way and this should promote better relations between Glenwood and other schools.

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  77. @Gungets Tuft: a cold beverage is definitely needed. But your records may be too old. I scrummed against this guy in 2000 my matric year. I think his name was Chen if I remember correctly….. sounds like the start of a bad joke, a charou and a chinese man scrum againsr each other…..

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  78. @Dixon’s: For your information, Chen is now a qualified Doctor! Maybe get his contact details from the MCOBA and ask for a free consultation on your ever painful toe!!!!

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  79. @McCulleys Workshop: The Bulls scouts wouldn’t need to inform the Sharks, but what they will probably do is inform Kearsney. Now that would be true etiquette. And you also correct in that Glenwood don’t own school boy rugby….but what they do own is the right to admit whom they feel onto their premises. But because we don’t like their decision, we crucify them and have a go at the headmaster in a public forum. Now that is an ethical issue…..

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  80. @Dixon’s: I had the privilege of coaching Chen. HE WAS BRILLIANT….not the most mobile but the cause many a painful rib…and toe!!!!

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  81. @umbiloburger: Seeing as Sharks Academy Bursaries are the ones up for grabs at the KERF, it seems to me the Sharks would need to be ok with Bulls scouts being at ‘their’ hunting ground – they do pay for the airtime in one way or another, I think.It may not be their property as is the case with the GW festival, but in principle it is no different, or is it?

    Lastly, certain schools, including Glenwood have been doing some shopping at the ‘smaller’ school festivals in the Cape over the years – have they been practicing the same etiquette that they expect in their backyard?

    Please don’t take this as a jab, I ask because I seriously don’t have the HONEST answers to these questions. I am just an amused bystander.

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  82. @Playa: Good questions but no real answer. I gies if the Sharks had a tournament at KP then they would have the right to reserve entry.

    The solution IMO is for the schools to request permission to attend if it is their intention to scout/recruit. If not then their intentions will probably always be deemed unethical.

    Beaten to death now.

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  83. @Playa: difference is recruiting at KERF is for boys at current schools, recruiting at Glenwood under 13 fest is for next year, very very different….fair game at grade 7 as boys & parents decide on high schools. The Glenwood fest is open to all….

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  84. @Grasshopper: My point is the following: A festival such as this is supposed to be for the u.13 boys to play and showcase their talents – or is it for Glenwood to recruit, and Glenwood alone.
    Read Ploegskaar’s comment – it shows the difference.
    I may add – each year Garsies hosts the Garsfontein Primary vs Constantia Park Primary games – two rival schools 4 km’s apart and one of the top primary school rivalries each year. They then participate in rugby, netball, hockey, etc. And everybody is welcome. And the schools from all over Pretoria is there – Affies, Menlopark, Waterkloof, even so far as from JHB.

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  85. @Grasshopper: I think you missed the point … at KERF unions are looking for players – at U13, schools are looking for players.

    So why should The Sharks allow any other union scouts in at KERF – after all, they are funding the bursaries / sponsorship etc.

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  86. @Djou:

    It is for Glenwood to market themselves and to recruit the boys that they want for the coming year. They pay for the tourney. It is on their premises. Hoppers comment here @Grasshopper: is a perfect summary of the situation. It is not the same as KERF. It is not the same as Craven Week. It is not the same as any festival hosted at High Schools for High Schools. This is a tourney hosted at a High School by a High School for potential recruits for the following year. I’m really battling with the reactionary element. Just pretend it wasn’t Glenwood and it will become very clear…… :roll:

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  87. @GreenBlooded: The problem is, if Glenwood are not recruiting every single player that takes the field, then they’re potentially denying players opportunities with other schools that could have recruited them.

    The tournament is not marketed as a recruitment tournament for Glenwood – if it was, there would be far fewer teams taking part.

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  88. @Pedantic:

    Are The Sharks funding and hosting the tournament? No.
    Do The Sharks have right of admission on the Kearsney Campus. No.

    It’s not the same thing. Hell – I think they need a road map to find their way to a venue so far away. Probably need to acclimatise to the altitude.

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  89. @Pedantic:

    The other players can be watched and recruited by anyone on any weekend playing rugby for their primary school. It would take a lot of effort and cost a bit of money in terms of travel and sometime accomodation. Far easier to just go to a tournament hosted and paid for by a rival school. A little unfair IMHO.

    Imagine the scenario if Glenwood were very keen on a certain player and they were bought by another school with a bigger cheque-book (lets say Kearsney for arguement sake :mrgreen: ) at their own tournament.

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  90. @Pedantic: don’t agree, the tourno attracts so many schools because the schools coaches are hoping Glenwood will give their boys a bursary. This might seem strange to non Glenwood supporters but primary school kids actually want to go to Glenwood and get good coaching and joining good teams…..shock horror!

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  91. @GreenBlooded: happens every year, young Pardey being one. Should have attended Glenwood or Westville, now at Kearsney…..even in my day Glenwood lost many sportsman from the Bluff to Kearsney. What Bluff parent will say no to Kearsney…..we talking tennis, cricket & hockey….

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  92. @Grasshopper: No arguing that any young rugby player would relish an opportunity at Glenwood – but are the coaches bringing the teams there for “only” Glenwood to recruit or in the hopes that their fringe players might get an opportunity at Westville / College / Northwood / Kearsney etc. ?

    Why not just call the thing 2016 Glenwood U14 trials ?

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  93. @Grasshopper: Why are they choosing Kearsney over Glenwood or Westville? A 100% scholarship is effectively the same, regardless what school they go to.

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  94. @Pedantic: well it’s a no brainer isn’t it? IEB education, smaller classes, access to great facilities, hot chicks at St Mary’s and fancy pants wealthy friends….

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  95. @Pedantic: but it’s held at Glenwood not Kings Park 2, Collegians or Rovers. It’s a Glenwood event. Imagine what would be said if a Highbury boy went to Glenwood….ooh god forbid it!

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  96. @Pedantic: Not quite accurate in the assumption that they are not trying to recruit every player. Yes they are. They ran several tours for all the boys and several parents also had tours. Not everything is about the top players. The average player at the festival will add huge depth to any schools B and C team

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  97. @Pedantic: also to be fair a 100% scholarship at Glenwood is the equivalent to a 33% scholarship at Kearsney…price wise.

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  98. @Pedantic: I’m not sure the coaches have that much ambition for their boys, even at that level I think they are just looking for victory and a good time for them. The parents ….. Hmmm … I reckon the days off are not wasted. I wonder if the banning of foreign recruiters is not just going to be inconvenient and make some wonga for the local coffee shops.

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  99. @Grasshopper: No it’s not. There are many other reasons for going to a school. Such as the boy himself choosing, which invalidates all your points.

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  100. @umbiloburger: And that “average player” is quite ambitious, generally a good school citizen (actively supports the school, plays 4 terms of sport, rigorously pays their school and BE fees). Not as common a person as you might think, very valuable commodity (in the nicest possible meaning of the word).

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  101. @McCulleys Workshop: Eeisch, you’re reading too much into that. The top recruit is going to be on scholarship, so is not a fee payer. The next tier down, good player, parents willing to pay to tour and look for a school that supports their kids ambitions, they pay their bills. Note “average player” in inverted commas, it terms of this conversation they are average, generally they are above average, ambitious, have ambitious folks in all senses of the word, generally people who fulfil their obligations. In times when 10% non payment of fees means a school is doing well, these are kids you welcome with open arms.

    In the generous sense though, yes, it’s not only the top sportsmen that are good citizens. The kids on the stands screaming their heads off for the 1st Fifteen are to be valued.

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  102. @GreenBlooded: Then name it GLENWOOD HIGH SCHOOL PHOTONOTE TOSHIBA U14 RUGBY TRIALS FOR 2016

    Once again, I am not taking a jab. But I think these things work both ways. If you don’t misrepresent something, people won’t assume it is what it is not. If you read Beet’s write up prior to the ‘festival’ you will note that he, as a rugby writer and common citizen expected that.

    Nothing wrong with GW going about recruiting this way – I actually think it is pretty smart.I just feel that they should have been upfront about their intentions instead of expecting people to read their minds.Those of us men who are married will know how much of a nuisance that is :mrgreen:

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  103. @Playa: Haha, I think your mind is read!

    I still think that recruitment at another institution should be respected; pitch up, watch, make notes, get a feel for the potential recruitees but refrain from making direct contact at the organising venue. After the event you can thank the organising institution for the display of talent and make contact.

    This I see as being respectful towards the organising institution.

    As for the mind of a woman………..Was it a woman who organised this tournament?

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  104. @kosie: :lol: :lol: :lol: Cindy has been very quiet of late.

    I totally agree. If any of those gentlemen who got escorted out had been approaching boys, then good on Glenwood, and shame on them.

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  105. @Playa:

    If Cyndi was smart and far less ethical than she is – she would have picked up on a business opportunity. Switched to video mode, recorded all the games and sold the tapes to the evicted talent scouts!! No one would ever suspect her!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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  106. @GreenBlooded: Thanks – guess I am a bit slow and should have spotted the opportunity especially considering the other schools are my best customers :mrgreen:
    @Playa: Yes I am still here and reading but can only log in via my phone so don’t comment much. I think Beet has met his quota of Glenwood comments :lol:
    Hope to see you all at KERF

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  107. @Gungets Tuft: At no stage did I refer to them as common. The average players at these festival become the heart of their school. And solid fee payers.

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  108. @umbiloburger: That’s not what I meant at all. I agree about the core of the school, what I meant was that they are not easy to find.

    My next comment to McCulley is more like what I meant

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  109. @umbiloburger: Bossr was indeed an issue Burger! The Selborne thing has never been resolved and never will be- another relationship bites the dust and deservedly so. A little introspection might be the answer at your workplace.

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  110. @Playa: I witnessed, first hand, Glenwood staff trying to recruit a boy beside the main rugbybfield at Affies last year, during the down the line sports exchange! They were asked very politely to stop and a verbal scuffle ensued. Sadly this is what happens when ones value system is non existent- and the arrogance of the “recruiters” involved was a sight to behold. The friendship base WILL diminish unless attitudes to this type of behaviour change radically…..introspection might get a good start for the Durban institution!

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  111. @chopper: I truly hope you are wrong….in the nicest way. :oops: I’ve chatted to some very influential Selborne staff and Old boys and they have all indicated that there is no issue with Bossr anymore. Selborne and GW are very similar schools. I am sure that from 2016 things will normalize.

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  112. @chopper: Shock, horror! Actually it is not surprising anymore. this sort of behaviour is no longer the exception but the norm for our friends from Glenwood. I wonder what Doc Edwards’ reaction to that was.

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  113. @umbiloburger: I am astounded that you seem amazed by this news. The problem you are facing is selective morality (or amnesia) or differing stances taken by different GW stakeholders. So while you have a particular view or ethos, this certainly hasn’t been the calling card used by all management at GW. Let’s face it and move on. It just makes it tricky when all of a sudden there are comments by you towards some moral high ground, the bulk of us arent drinking your cool aid, yet!

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  114. @McCulleys Workshop: I am what I am and I am proud of that. Have you read the posts on the Paarl U15 festival by Maroon. Paul Roos have new players. Where did they come from. Not their B team. Yet no-one takes them on. You are besotted at taking on GW and that’s fine. We as parents and old boys in the majority are over this and we have faith in TK and his team. You cannot believe everything you read.

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  115. @umbiloburger: I think the point here is more that Glenwood, by excluding the scouts from their tournament, are happy with the “do as I say, not as I do” approach.

    Playa asked an excellent question here —> @Playa: … and your answer was pretty underwhelming … here —> @umbiloburger: . The key question is “Lastly, certain schools, including Glenwood have been doing some shopping at the ‘smaller’ school festivals in the Cape over the years – have they been practicing the same etiquette that they expect in their backyard? “.

    Standing up all proud and at peace, supportive of TK is lovely, but the question remains … are you imposing rules of recruitment that you don’t follow yourselves?

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  116. @Gungets Tuft: I would expect any Glenwood staff member that attends any primary schools festival for the purposes of recruiting to request permission first.

    What does Glenwood do from a recruiting perspective at a primary schools festival that other schools don’t do? By virtue of the fact that these 4 schools arrived unannounced in this instance, by your standards makes them as bad as what GW is meant to be. All GW have done is asked these 4 other schools politely not to recruit at their festival, which is their right. Should they (GW) arrive unannounced at a festival….send them home.

    But still no comments about the new recruits for PRG that have stabilized their u15A team.

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  117. @umbiloburger: No, it doesn’t make anyone anything, because this rule is all new. As the statement from Glenwood said, last year someone arrived and set up shop in the tuckshop, hence the new rules to not allow representatives from other schools. Was this communicated to anyone – that there wuold be no reps from other schools allowed in? Even this year it’s interesting that it was only “alleged” that there was recruiting going on.

    There is no precedent – recruiting has been going on for years, reps have been attending for years – Glenwood changed the rules this year for the first time if I am not mistaken (correct me if I’m wrong), and now the other 4 schools get painted as evil.

    The “what does Glenwood do that other schools do not do” .. well .. nothing different on the recruiting side except exclude others from their tournaments – that’s a first. And I think you should read back – I have not been one of those that flay Glenwood for their recruiting, just when they defy the HMA, then we have a clear case to deal with. Not my standards – agreed standards ….

    No matter, you’ve answered the question, and clearly you expect these to be the new groundrules – good. It’s all clear and there should be no future problems in this regard. All we need now is for all scouts to wear one of those badges, so everyone knows who they are. As we know, they are not all on staff at schools.

    I don’t care about other schools – the title of this thread is “Maritzburg College scouts asked to leave Glenwood u13 festival”, with all the implications of that.

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  118. Well I was told today, that the highest authorities at Glenwood (not sure who they are) have put their foot down, there is to be no more recruitment after grade 8. Hopefully this is the case and Glenwood will start to regain their once very noble and high reputation, even if that means a few more losses. I honestly don’t care, as long as they get as best as they can in grade 8 and stick with those boys through to matric, one might start to see better results actually…..

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  119. @Grasshopper: :roll: Maybe that’s why they have become so protective of their 2016 U14 trials? Makes sense, and then place a moral crusader on the blog. Great if it’s true.

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  120. @McCulleys Workshop: Give me on good rason why you and some of the others have chosen to ignore the other recruiting going on. I have heard that the western cape is 100 times worse than anything GW Hilton or Westville have done. For the record, I have heard the new PRG boys all came from Paarl!!! Yet you pick on GW. Your condescending manner towards GW is so indicative of the sand pit childlike bully who when things don’t go his way he becomes insulting.

    For the record the MHS U16 team had a close win at Paarl Gim today. Can’t recall who they played but they are up against Belville on Saturday, which will be tougher encounter.

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