Maritzburg College versus Glenwood games on Goldstones in Pietermaritzburg should carry a health warning. The closing stages of the last four matches between the KwaZulu-Natals intercity rivals on the famous ground have gone down to the wire. There is no ways this can be good for the hearts or nerves of the respective supporters but boy does it make for entertaining to watch rugby. In 2013, then wing Morne Joubert scored a last minute try to help clinch a memorable 44-40 win for Glenwood. In 2012, Glenwood wing Ruben Fouche scored in the right corner at the death to help Glenwood earn a 27-27 draw, this after Glenwood missed the conversion to win it. In 2012, College centre Matt Phillips missed a last play of the game conversion, resulting in College going down 31-30. This year very little changed. With the score at 21-20 in Glenwood’s favour after 70-minutes of non-stop action, the result hinged on the last penalty kick of the match awarded to College. Up stepped College centre Marcel Coetzee, who himself had been a hero on Glenwood’s Dixons field in 2012, when he slotted a long penalty kick to earn his team a 16-16 draw that day. The experienced campaigner with more than 50 caps for his school had enjoyed a good final match on Goldstones where he first represented the 1sts back in 2011. In this 2014 game, he lined up his kick in a very similar position to the right of the posts to Matt Phillips’ ill-fated 2012 conversion and was to suffer the same outcome. The hooked kick resulted in yet another nerve-wreckingly close final score of 21-20 in Glenwood’s favour.
The cliché has to be used though: school rugby was again the winner on the day.
The match started at a furious pace. Glenwood won a kickable penalty but flyhalf Curtis Jonas 40m shot struck the post and bounced back into the field of play. At the other end Marcel Coetzee made no mistake from the kicking tee, putting College ahead 3-0 in the 8th minute after their main ball-carrier flank Renard le Roux had successfully breached the defensive line as the key play in the build up to the penalty.
Glenwood then let opportunities slip by when two obvious overlaps went to waste. It’s also at this time that the College cover defence begins to earn high marks for their organization and ability to stifle initially promising Glenwood attacks.
A key area of the game was the lineouts which did not always go according to plan. In the 24-minute, a misdirected College throw provided Glenwood no.8 Jaco Coetzee with the chance to come up with one of his numerous strong carries that afternoon, this time producing the go-forward that would eventually result in the opening try for outside centre Sparks Ngcobo. Ngcobo was pressurised by College fullback Matt Kriel, who rushed off the defensive line to stop the centre, however once this attempted tackled had been beaten, it cleared the path to the line and the Glenwood player finished well. 5-3 to Glenwood.
Ngcobo so often praised over the years for his attacking ability was tested on defence by powerful runners during this match and more often than not, halted promising progress with textbook low tackles.
College struck back almost immediately. Hooker Mazwi breathed new life into a move with a useful run after the impetus appeared to have been lost due to a wrong decision. With the ball being spread wide to the left a deft stab ahead was chased hard and won back by left wing Byron Watson not far from the Glenwood try-line. A quick ruck involving a handful of players followed before Marcel Coetzee peeled of it with ball in hand and proved unstoppable from just a few metres out. He added the extras and the home team lead 10-5.
College did so many things right to deserve to win this match. If there was one criticism of their play, its that they did not exit well when they needed to most of all. Untidy play near the College 22m area in the 30-minute resulted in a turnover won by the defending team but a horrible pass to outstanding on the day flyhalf Mac van der Linde, was dropped when he was standing in the pocket and preparing to punt. Glenwood pounced, won the ball back at the ruck, attacked the blindside on the right and Ngcobo crossed for his second try which Jonas expertly converted from a difficult angle.
That score took the teams into the break at 12-10 to Glenwood.
The first bit of excitement of the second half was compliments of a Renard le Roux carry. College wing Xolisa Guma was also prominent. The College attack took them into the Glenwood redzone where they execute a set move that has the powerfully built Marcel Coetzee, another player who enjoyed many metres of ground gained with ball in hand, charging in at an angle towards the Glenwood line. Curtis Jonas, who like Sparks has undergone a transformation from weak tackler to creditable defender under first season in charge head coach Rudi Dames, pulled off a try-saving low tackle.
Next up, it was one of the stars of the 2014 SA school rugby season, Glenwood fullback Morné Joubert’s turn to come up with a last line of defence potential try-saving tackle. This happened shortly after Marcel Coetzee was again put into a space via outstanding passing and manipulation of the visitors defence. College was however rewarded this time around. Coetzee succeeded with a penalty that put them back in front at 13-12 after 45-minutes.
Straight from the next kickoff Marcel Coetzee was once again put into a hole and raced up field. Just like in the case of the first try Byron Watson came up with small but vital contribution. This time after he was fed the ball on the wing, his dink ahead bounced and was not controlled. Chasing College players included centre Jordan Koekemoer who played this match like there was no tomorrow, giving it his all and ever-present captain Daryn Goodson. They two players combined to outdo Glenwood and it was no.8 Goodson who got over for the try, which Coetzee converted from an acute angle. 20-12 to College.
In the 49th minute Morné Joubert displayed some of his footballing skills. With limited options available and with players closing in on him, he coolly slotted a drop-goal. It virtually came out of nothing and the 3-points would prove to be invaluable by the end of the match. Glenwood narrowed the deficit to 20-15.
It was College who then proceed to leave points on the field. During a passage when Koekemoer was at his best with a couple of telling runs, a couple of penalty kicks, one a long range effort, don’t find the target. Sandwiched in between the kicks at goal was a golden try-scoring opportunity. High quality rugby by the home team saw them advance into the Glenwood 22m area and win quickball with defenders sucked in. The ball needed to go wide in a hurry to capitalise but instead it a short pass ended up in the hands of a prop Tiaan Steyn who carried it up closer to the ruck and the numerical advantage out wide was lost soon after that.
On the other end Glenwood made no mistakes from their chance. Hands in the ruck and Jonas kicked the penalty to bring Glenwood to within 2-points at 20-18 in the 57th minute.
Around the hour mark, Morné Joubert’s two runs were the highlight but it was a day on which Glenwood seemingly just could not produce the linking needed to finish off promising plays with tries.
Glenwood flank James Venter came within a foot on the touchline chalk of scoring. He dived over but the touch judge was on the spot to award the lineout instead.
By this stage College just could not get out of their own half with their clearance attempts. Glenwood with territorial advantage went in search of a winner. It almost came compliments of Ngcobo. An excellent bit of individualism saw the little centre manipulate the defence and make a good offload to wing Ilunga Mukendi, that would have put the latter in the clear to score in the same left corner that where Ruben Fouche had got the 2012 equaliser. Mukendi for all the good things he’d done this season, just somehow did not hold onto the pass. The ball went into touch. The College lineout resulted in scrappy ball when they needed to consolidate and run down the clock. Glenwood somehow managed to win it back on the deck shortly thereafter. A couple of rucks ensued before the referee had his arm out signaling penalty to Glenwood for a side entry into the ruck. With 26 seconds left showing on the digital scoreboard, Jonas calmly sent his kick, the winning points, sailing over the crossbar.
The final score : Glenwood 21 Maritzburg College 20.
What a game to have had the pleasure of watching. A truly fantastic effort by both schools, played with passion but also in good spirit in a wonderful atmosphere on Goldstones.
@Green Hopper: ja we need to change our mind set in respect of our teams makeup.What i did realize is that the okes playing u21 are the leftovers of the u21 group that in all honesty are not going to make it in rugby as a career or the very good players in the u20 crop that are playing above themselves,point is very tricky age group to win the league in.
@RBugger: Watched Fisher at woodburn the other day and he was subed after 40 min,just nowhere sadly.u21’s are playing with only 2 dogs in the forwards and one has now moved up to the CC side this weekend and the rest pretty pedestrian at best. no fetcher and no enforcer all ball carriers but got no ball
@QC86: i couldn’t agree with you more , it’s a cultural thing in SA , but it gets us nowhere, look at the all blacks, and I think it has direct relevance on why we simply can’t consistently beat the All Blacks and the Wallabies
@QC86: Very interesting, we will have to see what happens. It is one hell of an adjustment having played backline your entire career, then moving to flank.
Look, I hope he goes well – unbelievably, it could be a make or break scenario for him – if my source is reliable, I have heard some find him to be a bit slow for centre – so what happens if it does not work at flank?
I also see Fisher has been benched – wow. I guess they had to try something, the Juniors have not been very good at all
@RBugger:sorry could not confirm earlier, all a bit on the QT, but official now on website, I think he will do well this weekend because all eyes will be on,but those backline okes don’t like the mincing that goes on in the tight.
hahahahah – so it is blady true then!!! I was told this would happen, but I thought it was just a joke!!! Wow, that is going to be interesting, not sure he has enough mongrel in him to play flank
@QC86: Yip, that is why balance is so important. I think a lot of the x factor is trained out of the exciting players. To much game plan, confuses the lighties – they start worrying about making mistakes.
Like Beet said, the quick hooker on the bench – I like a Bismarck, Moore, Hartley, but at the same time, would love a Brits on the bench!
@RBugger: Esterhuizen at 7 for the sharks u21 side,Tyler Fisher on the bench another example of big school boy center now to slow and no x factor.
@RBugger: and in all our beloved Sharks teams,s15 ,CC ,u21 and u19’s very little x factor,all big school boys and now we wonder why our junior sides have played 4 and lost 3.Team needs a mix and i feel hooker is not the place to be big and slow.
@QC86: 100% X Factor has been missing from the Boks for so so long, thank goodness they actually gave Wille a chance. Aplon could have been our x factor, but he just never got a real chance with the Boks.
I hope Kolby forces his way into the side, as he is as exciting as it gets.
@RBugger: yes i agree,sorry my comment was a bit broad,we were talking more about hookers and in my mind sharks u21’s.Some positions need to be kept for x factor and pace ie 2,4,6 and 8,converting of players does not work to often.
Oh and about the centre – I heard a rumour that Esterhuizen of the Sharks may be turned into a flank!!!
@QC86: I am going to have to disagree with you here. School Boy and Professional ranks are far different. Grey are by no means small, yes, not a monster pack, but not small.
The difference with Grey, is mentality, confidence, fitness and the will to win.
In the pro ranks, they are all fit, fast and full of confidence. When it comes down to the pack, size matters!!! There is no doubt about it in my mind, size is key in the forward battles.
With regards to backs, Kolby is brilliant, but you could not have a whole backline of Kolbys – it would not work. You can accomodate Kolby at fullback as he is just a brilliant rugby player, but somewhere in the backs, centre, wing etc you will also need the size.
If there were 2 Kolbys playing centre against a Nonu or Sonny Bill, eventually, they would start beating the tackle and running through.
But certainly, a player like Kolby can and should one day be a Bok, but balance is very important.
@QC86:
Eish!
@QC86: His alphabet only has the following in it “groot””en””dom”
@Playa: Do you think he can read.
@QC86: Do you wanna pop an e-mail through to Heyneke?
@beet: @RBugger: At school boy level everybody is mad on size,my argument is that Grey Bloem has never got the biggest pack,in fact at KERF this year one of the smallest and where are they in the rankings year in and year out.Cris de Beer has no choice but to move to prop,his mobility is a problem,as you go up the age groups the game gets faster and faster.I heard there is a center going to play 6 for the u21’s tomorrow,same problem, a team needs x factor and pace,that does not come in big heavy packages,Try Cheslin Colby
@Beet: Agreed with regards to Goodsen and a place on the bench as a explosive second half option – but he will have to put on quite a bit of weight first.
On your comments about Shaun, I agree, anyone who plays for the SA U20 side can be considered a success, even to play at that level is an amzing achievment.
Like you said, the competition thereafter (especially at loose forward) is just ridiculous – we must have the best loose forwards in the World, man on man.
@RBugger: I also prefer big hookers but I do like the idea of having a more mobile hooker on the bench.
Guys like Burden and Cooper use to have serious x-factor explosiveness one upon a time. Richardt Strauss he was a machine and might still have that crazy energy level.
But definitely the big boys at great for scrums and helping to dominate the big collisions.
Its not unrealistic for a player like Daryn to be 184m 105kgs in a few years time which would be sort of Craig Burden’s stats.
@Grasshopper: The last I heard Shaun A was with the Sevens.
He has done very well for himself. Not many players get to play at the u20 JWC and even fewer are shortlisted for player of the tournament.
At the same time he’s also testimony to how very difficult it is to make it to senior level rugby especially at a big union where the pay is good. He could probably get a contract at a smaller union now or exercise some patience and trust in his own ability to get somewhere at the Bulls, knowing that every year top class new juniors are coming through to challenge for loosefwd places. Guys like Wian Liebenberg, Arno Botha and Jonno Ross are more or less Shaun’s age, so is Grant Hattingh who can play in the backrow and Roelof Smit is probably the next youngster who will be expected to be given a chance soon. So not easy.
For me I think Shaun is caught between a rock and a hard place – he’s not a genuine ball runner – not all about size just look at Jaco Kriel of the Lions or Nizaam Carr of WP. Shaun is also not a genuine opensider/turnover specialist like Michael Hooper or closer to home like Marnus Schoeman and like Deon Fourie was when he played flank. IMO Shaun will have to dedicate his energy to become really good in one of those two areas if he wants to progress any further.
He might feel that he’s fallen short of the goals he’s set for himself but like I said I still think he has been a huge success story for what he has achieved. So many players who were considered ahead of him at school level didn’t come anywhere close doing what he’s done.
Ja Beet, it is one thing to be able to throw, but much like kicking for posts, it comes don to nerves and who can handle the pressure. Throwing in a game situation is the real test of a hookers throwing capabilities. I like the character that Goodsen shows, one of the most important elements in making it as a pro. Personally, I feel he should stay as a loose and see what happens, he may be a bit light for hooker? In terms of size, I must admit, I do like a big heavy hooker.
@GreenBlooded:
It’s a huge underestimated factor but you are right a player can be coached from scratch to throw a ball in well.
The problem is that each rugby union has a budget. No one gives out 5 contracts to 5 hookers. They will give out 2 majors at best and then 2 minors at best. Then they’ll back the majors for game time and if those guys succeed the minors don’t play and get cut. It’s not like school. There isn’t an infinite amount of time or opportunity in junior rugby in SA. In SBR you play against the top 100 or so schools. In u19 there have basically been 6 teams for umpteen years now. So basically 6 opportunities to start, 6 opportunities to be on the bench at u19 level in a season that’s 12 games (4 months long). Player on the bench statistically unlikely to make it but probably costing the RU bucks.
So honestly when if I’m a rugby union and I’m giving out that contract, I want to be as certain as possible that the boy who played no.8 all season long who I could not watch throwing a ball into the lineout at all, is the kind of player I want to spend money on contracting out of position.
This year the Sharks contracted Andrew du Plessis. Andrew spent just about all of his time playing loosehead prop for Grey College 1sts. The Sharks contracted him as a hooker but they had him down in Durban for testing prior to making the offer.
Last year Chris de Beer was one of my fav u19 players for the Sharks. He joined the Academy without a contract and went on to captain a team that exceeded expectations. I was very sad to learn earlier this year that Chris is now being converted into a loosehead prop at Sharks u21 level. His lineout work was given as the reason for the decision.
The SA Schools 2011 hooker who played Sharks u19 in 2012 has come and gone. He couldn’t find his jumpers.
One of the famous Bulls recruitment duo told me a couple of years back that he has seen plenty of big strong young hookers but his real issue was finding boys who could throw properly.
Malcolm Marx is a great example of a young player that oozes potential but in spite of being such a great multi-talented sportsman he already has a reputation based on performances of being a hooker that battles to throw a ball in accurately.
The Bulls had plans a few years back to convert SA Schools and SA u20 no.8 Stoney Steenkamp into a hooker. His poor throw-ins ended those plans.
Glenwood and College over the last few seasons have had issues in this department. It just surfaced again on Saturday.
@beet: I don’t think a switch to the backline would work. A loose forward’s natural instinct is to hit rucks, carry the ball close to rucks etc. I once played centre as a flank and was completely lost having to get back in the line all the time which was against my instinct. Hooker would be better. He reminds me a little of Shaun Adendorff, a little small for flank but his animal attitude makes up for it. I actually thought Shaun should have converted to hooker. On that point, where is Shaun now?
@beet: I may be totally mistaken – but I think that lineout throwing is a skill that can be coached / practiced / learned by just about anyone? Surely this is not a factor??
@umbiloburger:
If I was representing DG and he was serious about pursuing a career in rugby after school, I would recommend the switch to hooker. I do think that in this country we are a little to quick at times to bracket young players for rugby after school based on physical dimensions but certainly in terms of size and statistical chances of making it to pro rugby a move to hooker could vastly improve DG’s chances of do very well after school. As a union recruiter I would even be prepared to take a chance and offer DG a contract as a hooker for several reasons:
fantastic attitude and work ethic
great ball skills
speed
decent size
heart – fearless player
leadership quality
& I didn’t see that many great u18 hookers about this year.
However there are two areas of concern that I would want to test as best possible before contracting at hooker
– his existing ability or ability to be trained to throw a lineout ball in straight and accurately.
and in general play – the ability to make him into more of ball runner as opposed to a support player – coz for me too often his skills as an attacking player are underutilised
For centre I imagine it’s a lot more risky a decision for both player and recruiter because it will take more time to make the conversion stick & 13 is trickier defensive position to master that many assume.
Also opportunities in SA junior rugby are so few and far between that if you don’t hit the ground running, another player in the camp is either leaving you behind or catching up to you very fast. If that rival in the position gets selected ahead that could turn out to be the lucky break that sees him start every game thereafter and propels his career to the next level while you watch games from the stands and eventually find yourself surplus to requirements. It harsh but that’s the reality of a sport in which very few who start the journey actually make it to become pros earning a decent wage.
But on the point of centres as I see it there is shortage of decent no.13’s at all levels in SA rugby. A junior player who can be turned into a good no.13 has a far greater chance of making his dreams come true than a player who can be converted into a good hooker. The latter being a position where we do have many quality players to pick from in SA.
@beet: Just a different question….what are your thoughts on Goodson moving to hooker? Size wise he may not make it at 6/7/8 but as a hooker, he would be brilliant. I’ve even heard he may move to 13.
@RBugger: agree on Carr, great player. In my eyes overshadowed Schalk big time. For me Schalk should retire and become a coach, same with Bakkies & Victor. We have plenty of young lock talent, Etzebeth, PSTD, Lood, Lewies etc. By all means take Victor & Bakkies as coaches/mentors but give the youngsters a chance, they have had their time in the spotlight. Whiteley would give Heyneke something very different to crash smash Vermeulen & Alberts….alas he is in the wrong province. Same with the little Lions scrummie…forget his name. The Lions props are good too..
@beet: To be honest, I don’t think he even bothers to watch Lions games. I suspect he only started watching Cheetahs games when he realised he doesn’t have an available fullback. He is missing out on many options as a result of his bias. Eish
@beet: Whiteley will not become a Bok as Heyneke started the size drive at the Bulls. He must bulk by at least 20kg’s and crush into all in front of him. Otherwise he will not be picked.
@Grasshopper: I think both Whiteley and Cilliers are bad examples for the simple reason that both were in the Sharks junior programme after school, they were not overlooked and only left KZN years after they finished school. Whiteley left Durban prematurely but the career move has worked out well for him. I don’t think Plum respected the way Cilliers conducted himself as a pro and he more or less got shown the door, altho he might argue that he chose to take up an offer with the Lions.
@Grasshopper: @Playa: I feel that Whiteley is a victim because of the Union he plays for. Clearly the national coach does not like picking Lions players for the Boks. He would have had to show half the form he’s had over the last year to earn an international cap had he been with the Bulls and would have just needed to be on par with what his producing to merit inclusion from another big union as long as its not the Lions. He is very unlucky.
@Roger: Not at all, my attitude is be held accountable by a higher authority, whether that be a headmasters agreement or the Governing Body or the education department.
I am unsure in what context you refer to about the standards Thomas More and SCC are upholding. Without being condescending neither of those schools feature prominently in the KZN sports fixtures. They are both good private schools and serve their communities well.
@umbiloburger: ok – so reading between the lines your attitude is if you can’t beat them join them – and bugger the consequences?
Tell me – what is so important about rugby? How do St Charles and Thomas More maintain standards without a massive rugby program? Similarly in JHB – schools such as St Albans, Benedict’s and David’s are massively over subscribed – and none of them claim preeminent rugby status? In my opinion – you guys are the ABIL of schools. Bubble will burst some day ……
@Grasshopper: @RBugger: I rate Whitely, and I think he has a future…unfortunately there’s that hurdle called Heyneke Meyer who will not pick him unless he puts on another 10 kg and starts bashing into people. Carr suffers the same fate. What a pity.
@Grassy: He certainly has a good chance. I also like Carr from Province, another player who has come on in leapes and boundes.
Whiteley and Carr would be my front runners, at this point, for the end of year tour – I would leave Duane at home to rest, big year next year!
What did you make of Tera on the weekend? Not his best game, but early days….
@umbiloburger: Good to hear! Count me in….. 8)
@RBugger: agree on Pat. Warren for me is pushing for the No2 eighthman in the country, hopefully goes on the end of year tour if that is happening this year.
@Grassy: Pat Cilliers? Not that great, no loss actually, he would not even make the Sharks bench.
Whiteley, developing into a nice player – always felt he was a bit weak in the tackle, but certainly improving game on game and exciting to watch – my oponion, far better than Kanko who has developed the Spies Syndrome, ie – never touching the ball in attack and certainly not making any tackles!
@umbiloburger: if you are not a coach or teacher then you are a parent. You know too much and specifics not to be. I know teachers there and I don’t have your sort of detail. I agree with your last post, ban rankings! I hate them as they used as a marketing tool to attract kids. How about a ranking of sport, academics and cultural performances combined, that would then show overall all round education. Also, not just 1st and A team results. I’m sure Glenwood would actually rank highly as they are performing in all fields….
@beet: Warren Whiteley, Pat Cilliers..
@GreenBlooded: Lol great comment…..I see the high schools refs association back on track. Meeting at KP on Friday to dot i’s and cross t’s. Hope it works out.
@GreenBlooded: Yes but in the case of Hillcrest to Durban, the logistics very much says that as a quality of life decision for your kid, he should board if finances permit it. The traffic on that route is hectic.
I was a boarder. I enjoyed the experience as rigid as it was at times and with all the duties to perform. I can truly never remember having an chance to even think of being bored so I can relate to anyone’s son missing school. With regards to upbringing tho, I know of plenty of parents still managing to turn their boys into proper men without help from a housemaster and gr.12 seniors. It would be unfair of anyone to suggest that these parents are denying their kids any future life lesson benefits by opting not to enroll them in the BE.
@Roger: Sorry, badly worded!!! most Boarders are from out of town.
I was fortunate to attend a dinner for Toppie some years back and I agree with a sentiment he shared at the time.
He highlighted the fact that School boy sport has lost the essence of fun.
In my years at GW a rugby match against MC was a highlight, more because you were meeting up with mates that you couldn’t chat to as we never had cell phones or computers etc etc. win or lose, not that important. Did you ruck your mate or not, somewhat important. Chat about our next jol…most important.
However with the advent of the professional era, uninformed and inexperienced leadership has reshaped education into the debacle we see unfolding today. And when there is no accountability from the higher authority, chaos will reign. Who that higher authority is, begs questioning. Is it the governing body or is it the Education Dept?
It has become a do or die situation. Parents have allowed their kids to be commodities, to be sold to the highest bidder. Another reality IMO is that this commodity (top sportsman) is become somewhat diminished in numbers, hence the reality to recruit beyond normal boundaries and feeder schools.
So my view point:
1. Most Top schools are involved in poaching/ recruiting/ call it what you want, and please let us accept that they are. Until the higher authority stops it, schools must operate within the framework of the HM agreement. Those with good leadership will win this race.
2. Players caught using PED must be subject to disciplinary procedure by the codes governing body (NOT THE SCHOOL) for consistent sanctioning.
3. All age irregularities must be investigated and the responsible person(s) must be disciplined by the code governing body (NOT THE SCHOOL).
4. Ban the publication of rankings.
Hope I have covered your questions.
@GreenBlooded: your comments are on the mark , well said , thats is exactly why they board , and they love it
@GreenBlooded: Agree 100% as you know, but the statement that the BE is only for out-of-province boys (at Glenwood and College) is not true. There is a Glenwood bus that departs Durban North every morning (at the same time as the Clifton and Westville buses) and goes to Glenwood, yet Durban North boys stay in the Glenwood BE. For the record, I have no issues with it whatsoever, but let’s pursue facts here, not convenient notion.
The Glenwood HP sports guys start their conditioning program very early in the morning, too early for any self-preserving dayboy to get across town, so they stay in the BE. I am on record as being impressed by the program and the conditiing results shown, so this is not a dig, but it is why the people mentioned, and the ones I know, stay in the BE. No harm, no foul.
But, ou GB, if there is a nurturing crustless cucumber sarmie going, bring and come bru, I am digesting myself from hunger esor …
@Grasshopper: so glad you said thsi before i did, what a failed experiment and still on going ,
@umbiloburger: I don’t think my son was 1st Team material, that was never the issue, what he was 2nd team material and quality, of this there is no doubt, he played 2nd team, Until I started questioning and verbalising the issue of Marne and Warren and another imports in general and the intent behind it and the damage, I perceived it was doing, based on the feedback form parents and the boys, to whom they spoke. I never once spoke out that he should have been 1st team, never, he played to enjoy was semi dedicated about it, but he did have potential , as three ex springbok Fly halves later comments to him at a game, and a subsequent offer from the one to go down to WP and join the academy , I think that pretty much spoke for its self , but at school there is no doubt he wasn’t committed enough
@beet: It’s not only a question of geographics and logistics. Boarding teaches responsibility and builds character – they are the heart and soul of the school. If my son lived a chip and a putt from school – he would still board. In an age where there is no more national service to turn mommy’s boys into men – then boarding school is the next best thing. I highly recommend it – it is the best thing I have ever done for my boy and I wouldn’t change it for the world. He actually get’s impatient at the end of the holidays to get back to his mates and his routine.
Of course – there is always the option of some of the new age “nurturing” schools, where daddy carries the lightie’s bag to the classroom in the morning and mommy shows up at break with some sarmies with the crusts cut off.
@QC86: Agree with you there.
@Thumper: My 5c worth. Round trip Hillcrest to Durban = 80km per day x 6 days per week = 480 km at 100km/hr if lucky based on all the traffic jams on that route is just under 5 hours in a car per week. Makes sense to board if especially if its financed.
@umbiloburger: Why was Staples boarding, he is a Durban boy (Hillcrest)!!
@Roger: well said boet,we as school boy rugby lovers must not bow down to this.Selborne will not play GW again,i can a sure you of that,How hollow must a schools victory be,how weak must the kids be in GW be for them to be forced to buy all those u16 players.
@umbiloburger: old boy my ass – you are obviously close to Glenwood and an educator with strong views. Please let me have your view on the creeping professionalism in school boy rugby and all the associated ills it brings – steroid abuse, age cheating, rankings, learners being bought and sold like commodities, win at all costs, sideline abuse etc etc. As an educator surely you cannot condone this behavior or is this really what schooling is all about now? Honest view please?
@umbiloburger: Just clarify for me – if the BE is only for boys from outside the province – did Marne stay at home with his parents (who also very publically moved to Durban, hence the HMA not being applicable), or did he stay in the BE. I can name 4 boys – 1 still in the BE and 3 that have left last year and 2 years ago – that live(d) in Durban and stay in the BE.
Compliments on being one of the best informed Old Boys (not on staff). Your knowledge of the inner workings at Glenwood is brilliant. Not too many Old Boys know the team details of U15 and U16 players.
There’s no hard and fast rule – rules are just a cover for loopholes, but we know that and mostly it doesn’t matter (like when Durban boys stay in the BE – there are generally good reasons for it). You want names – mail me – not going to put them on the blog.
@Grasshopper: I take that as a compliment that you think I am the U16A coach…..I am just a genuine GW Old Boy who feels that being of value is more important than being successful.
GW has a BE, which is there for people not from KZN or DBN. 11 of the U16A played U14A with one new recruit in 2013 and 3 in 2014. But what people like yourself don’t realize is that GW too have enrolled several other boys from outside of KZN who are not sportsman, but who have attended the GW marketing endeavors and have opted to send their sons there.
Recruiting is a reality…..the topic has been beaten to death…..and as for MHS!!! Well not so long ago they were RED, WHITE and GREY. Ask the GW head boy of 1982 where he son is now!!! After being at Northwood for 2 years.
@Beet: Jaco certainly a big loss to the Sharks – but sometimes, it is due to the said player wanting to move Provinces, then the Union has no chance – aka Thomas Du Toit, no matter what WP offered him, he was always going to come to the Sharks.
I would be interested to see the Sharks recruitment plan for next year. This year they signed some star forwards, but it is evident the team plays with no cohesion – very one dimensional type play. Big guys running it up as one off runners, only works in the beginning of the game, then the other side simply works it out.
I would like to see them aquire a few quick backs to balance the side out for next year, let us see what happens. This years crop have a lot of hard work to do if they are to reach the play offs
@umbiloburger: It might be too soon to comment on the new leadership at the Sharks but I actually think they have done well to retain the best talent in the past.
The Sharks only give out a few big contracts each year and generally if there has been a KZN player worth keeping they’ve managed to hang onto him while managing to sign schoolboys from other provinces who go no to become Boks.
I’d say that the big one lost this year is Jaco Coetzee but that’s down to the new management.
Jesse Kriel and Bobby Skinstad are probably the two biggest losses by the former recruitment core of the Sharks and that’s probably a lot better than what the opposition Unions have lost.
Then again only about 54 KZN school boys have gone on to earn Bok colours which is about 6% of the total, so KZN hasn’t as much talent as we like to believe to work with to begin with.
@Slam: The scary reality is that IMHO the Sharks are the worst when it comes to retaining local talent. Think of Peter Grant, the Kriel twins, Marcel Coetsee, Darren Goodson and even Sparks from GW and the list could go on and on……all are set to leave KZN. Makes no sense to me.
@Slam: I meant loyalty to his players, not his loyalty…..he stuck by John Smit through thick and thin…
@Slam: The Lions offer the best contracts on average at U/19 level. Other provinces have a couple of A grade contracts that are good and the rest less favourable, but the Lions offer better average contracts. Money doesn’t make the world go round it just lubricates it!
@Grasshopper: Jake White would be the last person I’d have lecture about loyalty. If any better job would present itself he’d be out of Durban on the first flight.
Re Glenwood it would be interesting to find out why 6 of the 1st XV have signed with the Lions for 2015 instead of sticking around in KZN.
@umbiloburger: These other schools had to jump on the bandwagon or get left behind, it does not mean it’s right boet. You are obviously a teacher or coach at Glenwood indicated by the way you reply, I wouldn’t surprised if you are not *** the Under16A coach. Also, these other schools are certainly not recruiting to the same extent as Glenwood at grade 10 level. Yes, Westville recruits at grade 8 level offering many bursaries but this is OK and what has been the case since the start of schooling. Glenwood teams at Under16 and above are like Barbarian professional teams. I wouldn’t be surprised if all the boys are on 100% bursaries and about only 20% are from KZN. Glenwood is better than 10 years ago for sure, but once they started recruiting later on it ruined this good work. It’s quite simple, get the best at grade 8, train them, nuture them, support them and build a great team environment where the boys know and trust each other like best mates, this builds belief and trust. Michaelhouse is the epitome of this, written off every year, just beaten by a point by the All stars Barbarian side for the past 2 years. By bringing in new players later on the incumbent boys have no self believe and trust in the coaches. Surely the failed Marne Coetzee, Warren Potgieter debacle proved this…..the team didn’t play as a team. Great individuals. Seems Jake White needs to do a lecture at Glenwood in the advantages of being loyal.
@Green Hopper: Better to have a vision and fail than to have no vision at all.
It astounds me that, despite your involvement in rugby, you could not realize that your son, who could have played 1st, was actually not 1st team quality.
@Grasshopper: Then don’t send your son to GW. Send him to MC….oh wait they do the same thing!!! Send him to WESTVILLE…..oh wait they do the same thing!!! DHS…..NORTHWOOD…..KC……Hilton…….MHS……. Oh dear, looks like your son may find himself doing homeschooling. Not to bad because you can write his testimonial…..he will be head boy and dux!!!!!
Please gents, be honest and agree that GW is in a much better place than a decade ago. Yes some decision are controversial but at no stage do I believe that management decisions were made to spite any individual or institution.
I hope College’s U14A team next year is awesome cause that will end up being my 20yr reunion team
Wow time fly’s.
@Grasshopper: again I agree, and to be the N01 School, it cant be based on just the 1st team results, Look at Grey its across the board , that’s where it matters , brotherhood, motivation friendship, tradition etc all the things one would expect
@Green Hopper: yep, so I’m on your side boet. I don’t like the shenanigans either. Seems there is something rotten there that needs to be removed to lift the cloud. A bit of a clique or ‘inner circle’ which is no good. I have even heard of remits like, ‘we must be the No1 rugby school in SA by 2017’ etc. Why can’t we just have the likes of Toppy and Hutch running the rugby….far better….
@Grasshopper: history is only written by the victor,
@Grasshopper: oh, but firstly I put my money where my mouth was when they looked for sponsorships for the new Pav, still paying actually
as regards to steps , I had emails, meetings and where did it get me, they blatantly side lined my son, as retribution for my comments and interaction with them, because it wasn’t going the way they wanted ,
it went beyond them and almost ended in court action, mate when I tell you that there is a trio involved, it includes a women there as well,
when your son is sidelined because of his association with a friend , whom he started with , it get beyond ridiculous,
but as I have said , we can change it , but its up to who wants to ?? and when you look at sponsorship , they will refrain from it , as it opens the doors to you having a say , and this they wont want ,
@Green Hopper: to add, what have you done to get through to the 3 ***? Nothing. I have at least emailed, called and met with some of them, they are just too stubborn. I met with SE last year and he just denied everything. The same terms are used by them all, ‘tallest trees catch the wind’ is a favourite. It seems they have all been brainwashed to believe this is all OK. BUT the school and it’s history is bigger than these individuals, they will leave one day and hopefully a better and more moral type takes over.
@Green Hopper: boet, I don’t care if I have influence at Glenwood or not, I don’t need them they should need me. I am the Old Boy who could sponsor a kid, their loss really. With the current antics I certainly won’t be sending any son of mine there. I agree with your last few points. The answer then is to leave the blog and not comment….
i might have reformed somewhat over the last two years , but I don’t think completely , but here is a try at least,
Grasshopper , you are wrong , your arguments have and are the same as they have been for years , some of the other bloggers here make good comment , for all the time you have purported to take a stand on and issue doesn’t seem to have materialised much and you certainly don’t have the influence within GW you seem to assume you do. That being aside, I wont hold Kershaw in such high esteem nor his right hand man, I have had personal dealing with both of them and as is recorded on this and other blogs , I don’t think they do things for the school , but more their personal reputations, I cant comment on College as I don’t know them , but when you Head Coach states after the 14 A game when the scores where 12 all, and GW scored a converted try , that the score was 17 -12 , it is no wonder that College didn’t know the score half the time on the field .
but aside from that side show, why don’t you all look at yourselves, I was there and am possibly to blame as well, but you are arguing and squabbling like a bunch of 6 year old girls at a team party with wet panties,
The boys in these teams have probably been together at some party Fun in the Sun over the weekend and with your money had a few beers and partied together, so what the hell. On top of it here you bunch of adults are running down the two best sides in Natal, and what is this achieving
I openly admit , and I can only really comment on GW, they are doing themselves no favours , who I ask you wants to send their boys to a school, that cant win a game, But the 1st teams , don’t we want our boys to grow up in a culture of respect and learning to both win and loose and be honoured and treated as well as the 1st team players.
Man its common knowledge that Sparks started playing 1st team in 2011 , I know because I was there, he makes the rules yes, he is talented yes, but without the other responsibilities the school has where will he be in 10 years , be honest with ourselves .
The outside centre of the 2008 team , where is he today? was he responsibly equipped by the school when he left ??
The duty of the school is , as promised by these two figure heads , at the first parent meeting every year both BE and day dogs , we will know your boy better than you do , we will equip him by the time he leaves school, with brother hood and manners etc etc . Is this what most of us got when our sons left , And what did the school do and does to these boys in grade 11 and 12 etc, they go an poach others , ultimately showing the boys the expect to be the rock of the school, that these two individuals and others mind you , just don’t give a damn
I think the more you bicker amongst ourselves , we should really be concentrating our efforts in highlighting these short coming and trying to make real change , rather than show anger and hate towards each other, because believe me, I and my son have been affected by this poaching scenario and 2nd it will continue to happen to others ,
This animosity towards each side is cultivated in the boys , we are their teachers , and the read this blog believe me, more than we realise and they assume from here what is expected from them
change must come form with , one great person said once, and it must be brought about by pressure from blogs such as this ,
let us change our blogs and our attitudes
@GREENMASJIEN: Ah ok, so mostly backs though…no front row….bar Klopper
@RBugger:
Glenwood have a good group of players with 1st XV experience coming through
PALVIE
MORGAN
NGCUMA
a few more names to add from current 1st XV caps
KLOPPER
DU RANDT – Academy
MUKENDI – CW
XABA – GK Capt. 2 years ago and Academy
plus 6 from current second team
plus 10 x possibles from U16’s who made a GK side.
@rbw1863: I’m not condoning the chanting at all, but it’s a bit like the rivalry between Man U and Liverpool, always something controversial. Gary Neville giving it to the Kop and then Luis Suarez not shaking hands…..always some spice. You should hear the chanting at English football games, insane! I know it’s not the same and should be stopped by the headmaster. We do sing ‘swat the fly’ etc vs DHS. Please could a College supporter help me, has that ghastly pylon always been there on Goldstones, I certainly don’t remember it…
Does the accolades from the Sharks go to the no 1 ranked first team or no 1 ranked rugby school in KZN. Glenwood has got a top first team but in my opinion the no 1 ranked rugby school is MC. If you look at the results over the 2 derby’s between these schools MC is the better rugby school, with out a doubt. Hopefully the KZN Rugby Union give credit to the schools who develop the talent in the region and not those with a “quick fix” mentality.
@GreenBlooded: A fair response and I understand your grievances with those names. However, in my years at college (late 90s) I cannot recall a single time I or any of my mates used one of those words. I may be wrong but I don’t think anything like that goes on at the school now either. And definitely never on a public stage and certainly not chanted.
@umbiloburger: Check with your headmaster. 1/2 stories are not helpful. Feel free to mail me, gungetstuft(at)gmail(dot)com. This public domain throwing of stones is not helpful and definitely doesn’t lend itself to the kind of mutual respect that most of us wish existed between the schools.
@rbw1863: My R0.05 worth on the Green-Stones taunt: it is normally used on Goldstones after a win which doesn’t exactly display humility in victory and it is a little disrespectful to this hallowed ground. Having said that however – I also don’t enjoy the many derogatory names for Glenwood which seem ingrained in the College psyche. Umbilo Tech, Scumbilo High, Dockside High, Umbilo Pavement Layers – the list goes on and on……..
I’d prefer to see respect shown from both sides – for one certainly cannot expect respect if one does not show it. As I’ve said before – I haven’t heard a derogatory name for College from Glenwood people or anyone else for that matter. I’ve only ever heard College or Maritzburg College. So for me at this stage – it’s a case of glass houses. Hope to see it change. Would love to see the College / Glenwood huddle and war cries again sometime soon.
@Gungets Tuft: Frackers one of the hardest running centres around. Expect big things from him next year. Chikwezvero also back if I’m not mistaken?
href=”#comment-64217″>umbiloburger: I never said that at any stage, but if you’re in the know then why make it seem as if you aren’t? Must be quite observant then to pick up on something like that.
I’d be interested to hear your point of view on the green stones chant.
@rbw1863: Sorry….College did play 16 man squads. Are you saying that they didn’t play a squad?
@GreenBlooded: Guma is fine with the HMA, came in at the beginning of Grade 10. I don’t think he is U19 next year, I think he is still U18.
Couple of candidates for captaincy, if you look at the U16 last year. Talking without my book but Colenbrander, Frackers, Thunder, de Wet, Rattray, Kriel, Getkate, Commons (strong candidate), all in the mix. I actually like the look of the crop coming in, good skills, great attitude and lots of mongrel, and all fiercely loyal College men. The Good Ship College is in fine hands.
But – I may well have missed some fine candidates so please don’t quote me
@Gungets Tuft: What is the status with Guma? Is he U19 next year and how does he sit with respect to the HMA?
Yup – Swanepoel will be the pick of them – nice physical bugger. Who will skipper next year? Matt Kriel seems the obvious choice – but there is always a chance for a young leader coming through I guess?
@GreenBlooded: Swanepoel, De Wet have had 1st team runs, it’s not all bad, there is good talent coming through if you look at the results of the 2nds, 3rds and 4ths this year. The U16A has not been too shabby either. Remember that this team has played together since U14, improving steadily. Have no fear.
@Grasshopper: It is a good thing, it means the KZN league should be far more tight in 2015 – no more 80 point hidings!!!
It seems all KZN schools will be rebuilding, meaning the likes of DHS may be able to cause one or two upsets.
This is where recruitment can be very irritating – ie, we should all be relatively level playing next year, but all of a sudden, one team has 6 or 7 players never before seen in KZN.
It would be nice if 3/4 teams have a chance to be crowned KZN number 1
@GreenBlooded: Jeez, Glenwood will be worse off, just Palvie, Morgan & Ngcuma….I think. Huge rebuilding year ahead..
@beejman: In the regular 1st XV – I think only Matt Kriel and Guma? Thunder will be back – had a few runs for the 1st off the bench and I’m sure there are others in the 2nds.
Any college supports know how many players will be back next year?
Let the arms race begin :-(
@Beet: True story Beet – I feel it is too late to stop the trend, have even heard rumours that my dear PBHS will be recruiting going forward.
Once something like this gains ground (as it has) there is no stopping it.
Seems like Slade Stuart will miss the match against Grey College – out with concussion. The team will miss his super-human work rate and kamikaze courage in contact.
@Playa: I agree with you…..
@beet:
“I still feel that residency rules are the way to go. It would allow for choice with consequences. Any player can join any school and benefit from the education, coaching, facilities but has to serve a waiting period before playing A-team and if they join too late, may have to forfeit CW, AW or GK selection. ”
100% in agreement with this! Absolutely 100% in agreement!
If I may add 2 cents.
When a school with 28 rugby teams (not aimed at Glenwood-others as well) has to recruit to ‘build depth’ the message sent to the B,C,D,E & F team players is “You are f*****g useless and will never make it regardless of how hard you work”. A very wrong message to send if you consider yourself to be an educational institution before all else.
@umbiloburger: You make it very clear in your 3rd point that it was hearsay that started the “rumour” of 3 boys on the plane? This whilst using the word “apparently” in your accusation of college defying the HM agreement in the same breath? Strange?
Something I noticed on Saturday, surely a team containing 12 craven week players should give a team with one on the wing a hiding? Maybe shows you what developing your players from grade 8 and creating a team culture is all about. Those college boys would have died for each other on the field on Saturday. Now THAT is what schoolboy rugby is about in my eyes, not rankings systems and professionalism.
@RBugger: Its a downward spiral from here on out. Local schools will try to match Glenwood by recruiting as many, if not more players. The gap between those that have the funds to recruit and those that don’t will grow. Paying players salaries like professionals will probably creep in somewhere along the line. It will get to a point where we’ll all look back and say we wish something had been done about it right in the beginning.
I still feel that residency rules are the way to go. It would allow for choice with consequences. Any player can join any school and benefit from the education, coaching, facilities but has to serve a waiting period before playing A-team and if they join too late, may have to forfeit CW, AW or GK selection.
@Thumper: I think someone hacked your PC 24 minutes before this post.
So much emotion and sledging between all parties concerned. Facts are, GW deserve their number 1 ranking in KZN this year. College, as they did against KC last year, gave them a fight to the death, a credit to what College stand for and who they are – they never give up and never give in. They should be proud of the fact that in both 2013 and 2014, they pushed the number 1 ranked side in KZN right to the death and almost pulled off what would be described as an upset.
With regards to GW and recruits, As much as I hate it, G Hopper is correct, if it is not against the rules, then GW are well within their rights to keep recruiting.
I feel it is against what School Boy Rugby is all about and is making the game professional from the age of 15, but what can you do…
@umbiloburger: I would be interested to know what the sanction is for a team that uses the squad system in KZN and whether or not the College headmaster approves of this method.
I’ve always been of the opinion that both schools should agree to the use of a fresh bench beforehand. In the absence of such an agreement it should be disallowed.
Having fresh subs as opposed to 2nd team players is definitely an advantage and therefore an unfair advantage if only one team employs the method without the other team’s consent.
@Gungets Tuft: To answer your questions:
1. It is unacceptable for them to run on, both schools…..however look at the facts first. College ran on as they all assumed that the Coetsee penalty was over. Glenwood ran on after the kick was declared not over. The change of mixed emotions from having won and then three seconds later having lost was too much to handle from some College boys. To then have a group chanting Greenstones exacerbated the situation. Thereafter mob psychology took over.
2. Yes MC does have a new U 16 player. MC also apparently defied the HM agreement and ran a squad of 16 in both the 1st and 2nd team matches.
3. Not being one to keep record, the recruits from Selborne and Mpumulanga were discussed at length prior to GK. The 3 recruits from the EC was a rumor started by a MC boy returning from the EC who allegedly sat next to the boys on the plane on their way to an interview at GW. Well the boys never arrived at GW and after several questions, I am convinced that the 3 boys probably weren’t ever on the plane.
Nice smoke screen……
IMHO school boy rugby has got out of control. At the end of the day it is only a game played by kids. Glenwood is a great school, emotions tend to get in the way and people think with their hearts and not their heads. May the rivalry continue and be played in the true spirit of the game. Most of the time the parents are the problem not the boys who give 110% week in and week out. Respect is what it’s all about. Glenwood beat us twice this year, no arguments.
@Thumper: Sadly we have a small group of bloggers and people who are intent on destroying the good name of Glenwood without all the facts. I too don’t have all the facts. But to do so publicly and ridicule on blogs is very poor as this is what starts the rumours and grapevine stories. It’s really sad that these people have to stoop to this level. Maybe they should try and meet with the Glenwood headmaster or have a call with him to get the truth. If all these rumours are true then I too am disappointed.
Sadly Glenwood have become the ” Jerry Springer Show ” of school boy rugby!!
@John Single Malt: jsm i am with you on this one ,sadly Glenwood stands for everything i hate in school boy rugby.
@umbiloburger: Just a couple of questions.
Are you content with the Glenwood boys intruding on the College circle, nothwithstanding the once off occasion that was taking place.
Are you OK with the Glenwood boys, after intruding, starting a “Greenstones” chant. After all, you are casting some doubt on a College master, lets get your input on the provocation.
Does College have a new U16A player. I don’t pretend to be on top of everything but nobody seems to know anything about a new player.
If the two new boys were recruited before GK, how does that reconcile with your previous assertions that Glenwood had no new recruits, all mentioned when the rumour circled about 3 boys on the plane?
@umbiloburger: Just ignore the trolls….waste of time and energy…
@Grasshopper: You are bragging so much it is a miricle you dont call yourself a oilpiel. Meen one foot in England the other in South Africa and the third drilling for oil. I mean dangling surely not good enough for you.
Why is it always GW who are in the news for ALL the wrong reasons?
Poaching
Roids found in the BE
Playing players who were, in some cases, as much as 4 years older than their age group?! This one is the worst of all because of the potential for serious injury to opposition.
All swept under the rug like it never happened while the masters and coaches are perfectly happy in their blissful ignorance.
Disgraceful.
And, you heard it here first, but in the coming years if GW don’t clean up their act they are going to battle to find opposition to play against in KZN. There is a huge upwelling of support for non participation against GW from a few schools in the province now.
@John Single Malt: I am reminded of a saying that I heard from a great movie with Martin Lawrence ” do you actually hear the cramp that comes out of your own mouth?”.
GW U16A have 2 new players. MC also had a new signing. Both GW players were signed before GK. and the U15A struggled this season…… Played 18 and lost 4…..that’s not struggling in my books when one considers a 4 point loss to Affies and Grey with 2 legitimate tries being disallowed in the last 3 minutes against Affies at Affies and finished in the top 10 rankings. Certainly not the sign of a struggling team.
I witnessed at first hand what transpired after the game and believe me, if the powers decide to take this issue further, one staff member could be in
trouble. But the schools must decide how to deal with this.
@Green Hopper: sing?
@John Single Malt: lets not get confused here, ,never did College look like 10 points teh winner, GW , like College, left plenty tries abegging , but the better team, won, the season shows this
@Grasshopper: disagree , they have been sing that for 8 odd years now, long may they keep it up
@Gungets Tuft: Agreed, talent scouting at aged 13 is very tough, don’t always go for the biggest or strongest, go the the kids with the best skills and look at their parents for an indication on size. I would definitely go for the kids with the rugby ‘brain’, skills and attitude rather than the one that just runs over everybody. I think Glenwood have done the latter up to now so need to be a little more clever in their analysis whilst scouting. Look at Warren Whiteley, once a flyhalf and now a very skilled No8….
@Grasshopper: The home grown goes back to the point you have just made, U14’s change massively, some grow, some don’t. So does the school then recruit once that first growth spurt is over by the end of Grade 9, or do they just adapt.
It was not a pointed remark, no defense necessary. I had a very interesting discussion with Beet on Saturday about talent identification and recruitment, and how some people do have a talent for spotting a 12 year old and knowing that they will progress. These are then “recruited” at grade 8 and eventually come through. How does House do it, is not even necessary if you look at the House performance this year with a team that many ha written off last year.
@Gungets Tuft: yep, but too many factors to track…teenage growth being the main one. Some of these kids are huge now but won’t grow much more. However, the rugby ‘brain’ and skills cannot be taken away. I reckon most will play in matric between 1sts and 3rds unless they decide on another sport. What was your point about being home grown? Three of Glenwood’s 4 SA schools trialists were there since grade 8…..purely home grown or did their primary school training count more?
@Grasshopper: If you can afford to sponsor the Ritallin for me, that’s a great exercise. Take the U14 sides from the KZN Tier 1 schools, as they stand now, and track progress.
Other than the fact that I would feel a bit like a stalker, it will be a decent exercise to see how the U14 age group from now progress through the ranks. My problem is naming kids, which I don’t like, so the U14’s we see now might not even be playing in 4 years time. Comes down to the “home grown” again. How many of the First 15 started in Grade 8….
Points difference in both cases is between 600 & 700. PBHS at home is over 900. All the teams scored 79 points of which their 1st scored a third of them. It’s not a criticism of PBHS it’s just an example of what happens if you don’t recruit at all. PBHS is also a huge school with huge numbers, they should be better than that, just my opinion. I’m sure John Smit isn’t very happy as an old boy. Anyway, Glenwood are doing some great stuff, I just want it to filter down more and the buying after grade 8 to stop, then I’ll be happy. Take the Under14a side now, mould them into a great 1st team in 4 years, leave the team as is….
@Grasshopper: No research necessary. Those are the Glenwood and College results against Affies, the same teams that produced the results against PBHS.
I am not having a go, but you always massively simplify, or take some linear argument to justify a point without testing the evidence. One could just as easily argue that the bursary programs at Glenwood and College are a colossal waste of money. I don’t think it is the case, but if I was an investor I would look at that ROI and run for the hills. Construct a case for recruitment, but I am not sure there is value to dragging other schools into the argument.
Personally – I would point to the good work being done by the Glenwood rugby program rather than recruitment. Just my view, there is a scientific case that can be made for that theory.
Sorry, Glenwood vs College results? Best to just say who is who and save me the research
@Gungets Tuft: so you comparing Glenwood to PBHS I presume, huge difference is Glenwood played in Pretoria after a long trek up. PBHS is at home in Pretoria, just a thought….
@Grasshopper: Expanding on your example, would it be considered successful if a school played someone like Affies and had results of Played 23, Won 2, Lost 21, Points for 205, Points against 978. Matches with points over 50 = 5
Or Played 24, Won 4, Drawn 1, Lost 19. Points for 195, Points against 872. Matches with point over 50 = 6
Would that be considered successful enough to attract the interest you spoke about?
@John Single Malt: with regards to new players… both schools had new players that have started school in the 3rd term (across a few teams). both schools where fully aware of all players that where playing as per an email exchange between the 2 schools. if the schools themselves had no problem with it… why are you making an issue of it?
@Grasshopper: And you know why all the Coetzee Dutchies in Durbs and Marritzburrow is called Rockspiders or rocks?
@Woltrui: fyi results vs College at Glenwood; http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/sites/default/files/SPORT%20RESULTS%20vs%20COLLEGE%20May%202014.pdf
Biggest turnaround being the Under15A….
@Woltrui: It’s about home and away, at home Glenwood reversed many of those results…I don’t mind being called a soutpiel at all, one leg in the UK and one in SA with my piel dangling in the middle..
@Gungets Tuft: Nope the replacements are valid 1st team players, in fact probably 25 boys represented the 1st team this year. We played Grey Bloem without 4 stars but they too had about 6 out. The difference is their depth is immense, they don’t feel the loss as much. Glenwood didn’t have the open depth this year, you can see from the open results compared to the previous 3 or 4 years. In the past the 2nd,3rd’s and 4th’s have been unbeaten in KZN, this year not. Anyway, you get my point. Losing two influential players is huge. It’s like SA losing Bissie and Willie Le Roux
Love the match report. a Pleasure to read. Compliments Beet. From a neutrals perspective. I am surprised that MC dominated the Interschools against Glenwood, across the board, as much as they did. Is it possible that Glenwood could not win one hockey game? Glenwood could only win 8 of the 22 rugby games? a Bit of surprise to me. I thought the 2 schools would be much closer matched?
@Ploegskaar: HUH?@Grasshopper: You take being called a “soutie” as a slap in the face? I call my English friends Souties. They call me “rockspider” or a “rock”(to name two of many). No problemosh
@John Single Malt: I’ve also heard the story about the College parent who saved the ref from a beating. I heard it from the College parent himself. I also know the ref – very well in fact. Strange – he has no idea about this. A fertile imagination and an agenda are a dangerous combination boet. Lot’s of that going on here……
@Grasshopper, my so-called grapevine are eyewitness accounts. Why would I make this up?
@Grasshopper: So the replacement for Coetsee and Joubert weren’t allowed to wear 1st team jersies? … eeisch.
All our guys were our first choices – finish and klaar.
Please College people – keep it tidy. If you didn’t witness it, then it didn’t happen. Sidelines have a way of building up stories, we certainly don’t need to make it worse here. Incidents such as parents fighting with refs ALWAYS end up in written reports, then they are presented at the Society meetings on Monday night. It will out if it happened. As for an umpire slapping a kid – please guys, that will end up in the newspapers and a teacher will lose their job. Let it go. Out of here … this is turning into a pecking party. Google it – there’s no happy ending. (And no, not that sort of happy ending
)
@Gungets Tuft: For years I used to fart odiously and profusely and blamed it on any of our dogs. The last one passed on 3 years ago, so no-one believes me anymore
@Gungets Tuft: Yes, I do apply it to Glenwood too. Any school side losing two SA Schools players is significantly weaker. Take Schramm and a Doop out of last years Kearsney side and it was not the same. Our 2nd team is far weaker this year so any replacement was not up at the same level. The same can be said for your halfbacks, I know the 3rd team scrumhalf was playing. Anyway, it’s history now. Glenwood won the game and should have by a greater margin, but all if’s, but’s and maybe’s.
Yes, I am well aware of the post matric issues, remember Rudi de Vry was a mate of mine at school, I have the inside story. He was at the Glenwood Old Boys dinner at my table.
Not sure, I hear there is a new kid from King Williams Town, did he play? It’s in the rules and headmasters agreement isn’t it?
@Grasshopper: Bored of WHAT. Just apply the rules to yourself. If College don’t claim margins due to “missing players” then apply the same rules to yourself. Is that so unreasonable? Every time someone mentions that game you remind us that your guys were missing. I think it’s disrespectful to the guys that did play, and did a great job.
Check the history of post-matrics … you will find College resisted PM for a long time after it was accepted by almost all schools. If we ever meet up I will share with you the little tragedies that went along with Post Matric …
My question about the U16 fullback – I wanted to be able to see if he turned out for your B side this week.
Take PBHS as an example of a former rugby power who has not recruited at all, even at grade 8. Played Affies, 24 games, 22 games lost, 2 games drawn and zero won. Points for 79, points against 1100. Very sad indeed. So hold your moral high ground and lose interest from parents in the schools sports or recruit intelligently and keep the school going with tons of interest. It’s a tough balancing act for the headmasters, it’s do or die out there with limited gov funds. The schools have to attract outside money somehow to survive and rugby is the best way to do it…sad but true…
@Bwana: Here we go, the grapevine from College working well. All their boys were totally innocent as usual.
I hear there was an incident on the hockey field too. A lad from The Tech supposedly took offence to the beating they were receiving on the Turf and decided to take his frustrations out on a College boy. My sources inform me that the Glenwood umpire pulled the player off from the College boy and slapped him. Classy behaviour
@John Single Malt: Mr Malt, I agree on the gees debate, but don’t on the epitome of all things bad or wrong in schoolboy rugby. Many schools are recruiting now, it’s part and parcel of modern schools rugby. It’s as bad as post matrics, which if you remember College was involved in too. It will sort itself once the dust has settled, but at the moment parents are allowing this and schools are just saying yes, why not. It’s not good at all as it’s pooling talent in one place. Anyway, you will find anything bad to say about Glenwood, it’s like farting against thunder…better to just ignore it…
@Gungets Tuft: Here we go again, so bored of these that I might just come back next season…..I don’t know that sort of detail of Under16, if they are operating within the rules there is not much as an Old boy I can do. However, if they are doing dodgy things then I will make a stand. Now Irish Malt is branding Glenwood the example of all things wrong, jeez he doesn’t know much about the 99% good things Glenwood are doing…
@Grasshopper: Correct – just be sure to apply those “rules” to yourself. So the talk of Coetsee and Joubert not being there, and 20 points plus – speculation. Taking the foot off the gas … ??? .. hahaha, top teams don’t know how to do that, or they would never have put 80 on Kearsney.
Who was your U16A fullback when College played at Glenwood?
@Grasshopper:
Ok so its fine that you make excuse after excuse… oh the altitude, oh these players were missing, oh we had a hectic schedule…jeez we’ve heard them all from you.
Its no surprise that teams have refused to play GW in years gone by.
They are the epitome of everything that is wrong with school boy rugby these days.
If a kid arrives in grade10, how much loyalty and gees does he really have for the school? They have no identity with the school. I reckon its for this reason that we see such disrespect from a few of them..Greenstones etc etc.
There were 2 red cards on the day – both GW. Also a College parent had to run onto the field to separate a GW parent who had run onto the field to attack the ref. Coincidence? I think not.
@John Single Malt: Oh here we go again, another Glenwood hater on this blog, how different…..NOT. College were well beaten at Glenwood, they took their foot off the gas. Yes, your halfbacks were injured, but as Gungets always says whoever is in the College 1st team jersey is 1st team, no excuses. If Joubert and Coetzee were playing at the Glenwood game I reckon it would have been 20 points plus. Ask Kearsney how good this side was when they clicked. Anyway, bored of defending Glenwood against the likes of you. As I have said ad nauseum is I am against recruitment after grade 8, but it’s allowed currently up to grade 10…..so Glenwood are within the rules…it’s called being clever with the rules…
Also, I see the GW U16A side had 10 new recruits that arrived this year at Glenwood. 10! All poached from other schools at Grant Komo week.
I see the GW U15A side struggled a bit this year, what the bet we see an entirely different team next year after the u16 provincial champs. Mostly talking with a distinctly Afrikaans accent.
@Grasshopper:
Ya so 2 were really good and chosen independently. Awesome. And the other 10?
College should have won that game by 10 points. They left a few tries on the table as well as a few missed kicks. That tells me that there is very little between the sides.
And don’t tell me College were well beaten at GW boet. The score was 20-14 until the final second of the game. That’s not even a try in it. GW only scored in the dying seconds to make sure. Well beaten my arse. You think college were at full strength for that game? I suggest you look again.
@John Single Malt: Best to ask the Kearsney coach and selectors. Also, the SA schools selectors who picked 2 Glenwood players, they might see something you don’t. It’s called individual talent. College were well beaten at Glenwood without these 2 players and Glenwood went to sleep to let them have a sniff at home, they were 20 points ahead in like 15 mins. Also, remember derbies bring the best out of the underdogs especially on Goldstones. I remember beating a Natal laden DHS side in 1996 and we didn’t have even one KZN rep and had lost to Voortrekker and Afrikaans Hoer Durban Noord, rugby is a funny game and anything can happen on the day in a derby……
I know we’ll never know the real answer but how is it that 2 teams who are so closely matched had such different representation at Craven Week?
By all accounts College were the better side and should have won but lost at Glenwood.
So how did one school get 12 in and the other just 1 in what turned into a slightly disastrous CW for KZN?
@Gungets Tuft: Well let’s hope that a parallel speech happened in the Glenwood Hall this morning too….. Not lekker. Leaves a bad taste after what was a thrilling display of sport.
I would never get into a fight with a scaly oke from Umbilo High.
They kill people in fights. Roid bunnys.
@All Black: I see that work is progressing fast on the tartan on Princess Margaret drive. Maybe that will be the catalyst. Need a staff champion ….
@All Black: Yep, great event that Pentagular with PBHS, KES, College, DHS and Glenwood. A great day out with plenty of great competion. Glenwood and DHS are the strongest schools in KZN in athletics so they would still be very competitive…
@Grasshopper: I didn’t see SLM’s team finish, but I know that last year at Glenwood both his and the College team huddled after the match. It’s time .. but I do know there is a lot of emnity right now. In the lift club this morning the boys were quite certain what the reaction was going to be in assembly this morning – any part that the College boys played will not be tolerated, action or reaction. Takes 1 to start, but 2 to carry on.
@Grasshopper: Athletics at KES. that is something that both schools need to bring back.
@Gungets Tuft: The scoresheets on the board on Monday were a sorry sight, L’s down the column, 50 plus scores and sometimes even 1000 points for College, shocking stuff! It was humiliating, maybe that is why the boys get so stoked now….no more humilation and it needs to stay like that. Also, the number of cripples in crutches and casts on Monday after College was immense, we could have started our own hospital..
@Gungets Tuft: In my 10 or more games I played against College there was never a fight or altercation, in fact we got on well with the College boys especially on our athletics trip up to KES. We seemed to have quite a bit in common. I think for us it was always a case of we need to keep the score down boys, we want to be the only team not to lose by 50. I think we lost by a couple in matric, but I was playing 3rd’s coming back from injury…….Greenstones should be left to the young idiotic/pissed Old Boys who everyone ignores…
@OudAffie: The Under14A score must have been a backlash after a poor performance against Grey Bloem, never heard of 95-0 at this level at A team..
@Grasshopper: I can only answer for myself, and the answer was a definite no. I know what the official reaction would have been at College if there had been. In my day we got suspended for a match if we were seen on the field with our socks down. I witnessed a College coach, at Westville, the MIGHTY 8ths team, reminding a player to pull up his socks, so the culture still exists. The odd “come on you woos” in the dark depths of the front row might still come out, but a general chant on the field, I would be dismayed if it happened now, we learned from gentlemen how to behave back then, I trust the same happens now.
The little scrum down on the field will cost me R160 this week – my sons basher was ripped from him and stamped into the turf – I am not particularly impressed.
@OudAffie: Yep, http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/sites/default/files/SPORT%20RESULTS%20vs%20COLLEGE.pdf
Het iemand die volle tellings vir die rugby dag tussen die 2 skole?
@Gungets Tuft: Yep agreed, the headmasters should start this again. I’m sure Steve La Marque could even initiate it with his team….seeing he has respect in both camps..
@GreenBlooded: hahah, well you are. I’ve heard of Gaywood, Harbour High, Scumbilo, Souties….many others. I too only called College, College. A win on Goldstones is rare, these sorts of public displays of excitement and stupidity just show the College boys how much this means to the Glenwood boys. What would be scarier is if they just shook hands and walked off, no emotion at all. Then that would indicate Goldstones has lost it’s aura….silence is sometimes better…
@GreenBlooded: And I agree 100% with the concept of a joint circle of player. I was next to the tunnel when both team came off. There was serious emotion in the College team after the handover (grown men do cry
) and the Glenwood players themselves were brilliant about it, much more so than I have seen before. An example set by both teams would defuse the agro after the match from supporters.
The comments about Glenwood are not helpful in the slightest, it’s the ultimate drawback of social media that everyone has a say, and in many cases there is no opportunity to block it or censor it.
@GreenBlooded: I don’t like this new Glenwood ‘Oh boys of Glenwood’ copy of the ‘flower of Scotland’ song, it’s embarrassing. Just stick to the old tried and tested warcries….
@Grasshopper: Maybe not taunts after a win – but there are certainly a lot of derogatory terms used for Glenwood. The latest one I’ve heard used by a College parent is “Umbilo Pavement Layers” and a parent made a comment on the College FB page on the Friday before the match about “Scumbilo High”.
I only recall ever referring to Maritzburg College as Maritzburg College or College.
I think some renewal of respect between the 2 camps is neccessary before there is a nasty incident – would hate to see that.
Very difficult for me between a rock and a hard place……
@GreenBlooded: Agree, the Glenwood boys probably had no idea, they were just overwhelmed by excitement in winning such a tight game…
@Gungets Tuft:
I had no idea – and I’m sure neither did the Glenwood boys.
But I agree- the Greenstones taunt shows a lack of humility and respect. I don’t like it either.
@Gungets Tuft: Just a genuine question, did College ever taunt Glenwood in those first 90 years they klapped them every year? I’m not condoning any ‘Greenstones’ chants or similar, that should be kept in the school as motivation on the Friday before the game…I certainly remember some taunts in the scrums in the 90’s…
@GreenBlooded: What made the situation worse was the on field presentation of a tribute to the parents of a contemporary of the matrics of this team, a kid that died suddenly in his Grade 8 year at College. Daryn had the boys name written on his headband (that’s how much it means to this team), the circle of the College team and the supporters was for this purpose. It was an extremely emotional time for all involved, I know there was not a dry eye in the group that I drove back to Durban.
If there was ever a worst time for a little “Greenstones” taunt – this was it. The only result necessary in my mind – just drop the Greenstones thing – OFFICIALLY. There is no value to be had.
I’ve seen plenty of handbags in my years of watching schoolboy rugby, it’s part and parcel of the passion and testosterone out there, especially in big derbies. I never heard a thing about mass on-field altercations’, but hey I wasn’t there. I remember a 2nd team game at DHS in about 94 going pear-shaped and needed to be stopped, it happens and the boys are dealt with on the Monday….
@Trueblue:
“mass on-field physical altercation between teams and supporters”. I think your imagination is running a little wild there mate. The Glenwood boys charged onto the field to honor their hero’s – they perhaps overstayed their welcome in the College circle a little and were a little insensitive and lacking in humility with their “Greenstones” chant. The situation quickly resolved itself – nothing to see.
Like I said in another post – I’d like to see this clash go back to the days where both schools join together after the match and chant both war cries. The headmasters could very easily facilitate this….
Not every week-end’s schoolboy rugger is marked by a mass on-field physical altercation between teams and supporters – as unfolded after the final whistle on Goldstones on Saturday! Do we understand correctly that one of the coaches played a meaningful role in aforesaid clash? Will be watching with keen interest for suitable sanctions to be brought!!
Very exciting game to watch.
Morne Joubert and Jaco Coetzee, once again stood out and proved that they are worthy of their SA Schools selection.
Glenwood were clinical as usual. College showed huge gees and played at great pace until they reached 20-12. After that they defended heroically. My heart goes out to them.
Thanks for the spectacle! As a neutral, my nerves were finished – lol!
Great write up once again, love neutral perspective….
@Beet: Congratulations on another excellent match report!!