If any of my four sons had been offered a bursary in grade 8 to any of the top KZN schools (academics and sport) I would have taken it with both hands, especially the private schools offering small class numbers. Unfortunately i had to pay full fees. Whether the bursary is for academics or sport, a motivating factor is for the school concerned to achieve marketable results. Top matric results attract fee-paying customers as much as sports results – especially rugby. KC offers bursaries for their choir and obviously uses their world-beating choir as a marketing tool. Cool. There are surely many boys around the country who would love to attend a top private or model-c school if their parents could afford the fees, so poaching or any other form of bursary must provide these boys, and their hard-pressed families, with a not-to-be-missed opportunity. And if they don’t make it to higher honours in rugby (or singing), who cares as long as they are getting a superior education?
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1 June, 2014 at 17:35
#115umbiloburger
@Vin: The U14 lad is a national swimmer and has joined Graham Hill in the GW Elite Academy. One of the Grade 10 boys is his brother who is not on a bursary at GW. The other boy too is not on any bursary and has joined GW’s Elite Academy. I believe that GW did follow normal protocol and informed KES before accepting the applications.
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1 June, 2014 at 05:46
#114Anti Green
@McCulleys Workshop: Shame must be hard getting round, rugby injury? Do you want me to sign the register for you? Which Year?
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1 June, 2014 at 01:46
#113Grasshopper
@Tang: I think 1250 boys, not all bursaries are 100% though. Westville are subsidized heavily by wealthy old boys and families…
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31 May, 2014 at 21:39
#112Tang
@Grasshopper – 45 bursaries means 225 boys per year are not paying fees (school and boarding).
How many boys are there at Glenwood?
If Westville offer 60 to 70 bursaries per year, then they have between 300 and 350 boys on bursary. That is about 1/3 of the school on bursary.
I’ve made this point on Post Matrics a few times. In the 70’s you generally finished school at 17. Post matric was conceived as a bridging year – initially I think with a view to doing A levels and going on to an offshore university. At that time I doubt that there were very many 17 year olds in the CW sides – the majority were 18. Even the great Danie Gerber who played 3 years SA Schools was 19 in his final year. in Natal so were the likes of Mike Barker who played SA Schools in ’78 at the age of 19. I don’t think that a few 18 year old post matrics gave the privates any significant advantage then and the results would bear this out. This may have changed in the ’80’s and 90’s when the matriculation age was 18 and post matrics 19 but again I suspect that the results were much the same.
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31 May, 2014 at 09:00
#110McCulleys Workshop
@Anti Green: Negative – my hip replacements playing up
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31 May, 2014 at 08:37
#109Anti Green
@McCulleys Workshop: Went to the same school as you, was in the 91 side. That was my point, boys were offered to do a Post Matric, almost like a bridging year. They weren’t poached to specifically come to MHS to play sport. It did seem to change at one stage. Generally there were an array of different people in Post Matric. Head Boy was generally Post Matric. Will at House next week end for Old Boys Day and you?
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31 May, 2014 at 07:40
#108Veg
Grasshopper.What you your @Grasshopper: Grasshopper what you actually highlight is the inadequacies of the system of selecting CW teams.It shouldn’t make a difference at all which school your mates went to if they were good enough they should have been spotted.However we know it doesn’t work like that as most selectors are attached to a school (not saying they are biased) and thus are occupied on a Saturday with their school.These guys then are more acquainted with the schools and players that their school plays against.In a ideal world you would have totally independent selectors who were able attend more out of the way games etc.This isn’t going to happen so we are stuck with the system that we have got.
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31 May, 2014 at 07:29
#107McCulleys Workshop
@tzavosky: Thank you for your enlightening story, Beet was on this topic last year, are the Sharks feeding certain Durban schools like Glenwood and Northwood and if they offer bursaries to GK players, is this a semi pink ticket into CW. All intriguing.
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31 May, 2014 at 06:33
#106McCulleys Workshop
@Anti Green: Not sure where you went to school, but MHS offered post matric sports bursarys from as early as the late 70’s (might have been earlier). In the 90’s an Old Boy funded 3/4 post matrics each year, and 2 were invariably from Grey, yes and Herkie was one of them. In 99 or 2000 they had 3 Grey players, and a Ladysmith lad. They gave Hilton 40 points and the return match was cancelled because they felt they were at risk playing against a front row of about 330 kg’s. Not a bad call. Funnily enough, the sponsors son was kept out the first side that year due to the post matrics. At the time I thought the process was fair, as we played against schools with 1200 boys who were notorious for having players whose best 3 years at school were matric. With hindsight, the system was flawed as it kept players out the side who had played A team at age group level only to be outed when they got to matric, by a pupil who was either a post matric recruit, or just a MHS scholar who was doing a post matric. Most of the post matrics were head boys etc so it removed the opportunity for many matric boys. I think it was a legit intention to bridge the gap between school and varsity, particularly for the younger matriculant and to provide a gap year of sorts. The wholesale import of sportsmen was wrong.
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31 May, 2014 at 06:22
#105fairplay
Can anybody tell me what team the 2 boys from Dale is playing at Glenwood
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31 May, 2014 at 05:22
#104Deon Pitzer
@tzavosky: Wrt the Upington boy. I am sure there will always be some cloak and dagger Old Boy, “bloody agent” around, for PRG as well. Don’t know wether this is the case here wrt PG, but one never knows.
@Grasshopper: It was wrong to single out a specific school. I apologise. In fact, for the purposes of this discussion we should all put on SBR jerseys. I am sure that none of our schools are completely blameless.
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30 May, 2014 at 23:04
#103Grasshopper
What makes me laugh is that people think Glenwood is a rich school with unlimited cash. We are in fact a middle class school with not that much cash to flash. We offer 45 bursaries at grade 8 level and maybe a few others. The way people speak on here it’s if Glenwood give our hundreds of bursaries. Some kids move genuinely with their parents paying fees….
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30 May, 2014 at 21:34
#102Djou
@Ploegskaar: Must say, I am really impressed with your English. I learned another English word, rather expression, from you “kleinpielie complex”. This is a beautiful development of appropriate language use.
In more way than one they do, Hopper. GW’s Bizsport tournament is one you could mention. Two of Ben Vorster’s u16 side, who beat GW at this year’s tourney, received bursaries, ostensibly from the Sharks, to attend GW next year. Quite neat!
@Deon Pitzer: “As I said, some schools do not have to go to that extent”
Not saying this is what happened, Deon, but the Rikus Bothma story intriques me. I’ve noticed that he played GK for Griquas Country Districts for two consecutive years whilst at Upington, then moved to Paarl Gym.
This could have been a genuine relocation, I don’t know. But it struck me that last year Upington withdrew from their fixture with PG with no reasons being put forward. Again, maybe a coincidence, I don’t know.
But I guess recruitment happens all over the place in one way or another and we should accept it and move on.
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30 May, 2014 at 21:25
#100Grasshopper
@Deon Pitzer: to be completely honest as an ex 2nd team player and old boy, I really don’t care if Glenwood can compete with the big league schools, all that really counts for us is beating Westville, College and DHS in that order. If we win all 3 it’s a great season for us. The recruitment stuff certainly isn’t coming from Glenwood Old Boys. It’s coaches brought in by the DHS old boy headmaster. I would prefer to go back to my day when we were average at everything except athletics….winning on the rugga field is not everything. I preferred throwing the discus further than any KES, College, PBHS or DHS boy….what a great feeling, especially being smaller than all my competitors…Rudi Dames the Glenwood coach is not even an old boy….
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30 May, 2014 at 21:21
#99Deon Pitzer
@Grasshopper: Not one approached by PRG proven this far. Some, not lots of hearsay, sometimes threats to “reveal” top secret documents, but no , no apptoaches, at least not by the school. Anyway, even if there were such approaches, believe me, they were not bizarre actions 1300 km’s away, or at the East Rand. Northern Suburb boys cannot wait to approach the various big WC rugby schools, most within 50 km from their homes. Nothing at all comparable to the facts we have all been provided with regarding GW. Nothing tangibly wrong with it Hopper. You are getting me wrong. Just damn akward the way you guys go about it. The extent of your efforts!
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30 May, 2014 at 21:14
#98Grasshopper
@Deon Pitzer: I would not be coming from from a whiter than white perspective, plenty of Northern suburb friends kids approached by Paul Roos with bursaries. I feel sorry for the likes of Tygerberg etc. Hard to compete with a full Paul Roos bursary….
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30 May, 2014 at 21:06
#97Deon Pitzer
@Grasshopper: 800 applications, 550 turned away. Some local homegrown KZN boys dreaming of attending a prestige school like GW, ignored because GW need the services of a better rugby player 1300 km away in order to maintain its rugby prominence in KZN. Shame on you Hopper. Good to hear the success stories though. Pity your able friends at 2nd tier schools never thought it necessary to apply at GW. Even stranger GW never approached them. Perhaps they were living too close by? As I said, some schools do not have to go to that extent, some have to. A win is a win, regardless of who you pay to play for you. This is a professional, or semi-professional era. Just do not expect to be honoured by those in the know for that win.
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30 May, 2014 at 20:37
#96Dixon’s
@meadows: it was 99 the imports all came from Grey College if I remember correctly. I have the upmost respect for House because of the way they quickly stopped the post matric imports…. it showed that they where more interested in upholding traditions and keeping a healthy relationship with their oldest rivals than winning!
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30 May, 2014 at 20:19
#95Grasshopper
@Deon Pitzer: ok, I’ll add to this discussion. Glenwood is 104 years old and considered a great South African school. They have played rugby for over 100 years and would be considered a traditional school. We were never consistently the best school in KZN, but I can certainly say we had some years to be very proud of. We are respected in KZN and certainly don’t need to beg or buy players in KZN to come there. I think we have 800 applications for grade 8 every year with only 250 places. Rugby boys are coming to us. Others schools maybe older but competitive rugby between schools only started properly in the 20’s so we have been there from the beginning. I have had numerous friends stuck in 2nd tier schools who would have made KZN schools if they had come to Glenwood. Jonas and MacMillan are great success stories and I’m sure if you asked them they are very happy they moved….
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30 May, 2014 at 20:08
#94meadows
@Dixon’s: I can’t remember if it was ’98 or ’99 – somewhere around there. The return Hilton fixture was cancelled and it caused a fair amount of friction. I can’t recall how many post matrics were in that side but the bulk were funded by one old boy. There was an outcry from old boys and the exercise was not allowed to be repeated. A few years later MHS abandoned post matric altogether.
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30 May, 2014 at 20:05
#93Deon Pitzer
@GreenBlooded: Apologies, perhaps I wanted to say a lot but tried to be too concise and came across as if I am jumping on you! Cannot really say that I am against or for all of this. But to me there are at least two clearly distinguishable types of schools here. Those that do not need to approach players, players approach them, and if approved, these schools by way of eg bursaries. Then you have a second kind of school. Those that have to scout and approach schools and beg and pay kids to play for them. They buy bragging rights, convincing and bribing parents and kids to “pleaaase make our first team get to the top 10” . This is not illegal, and cannot and will not stopped, why should it? But those schools, win or lose, will always be frowned upon and laughed at.
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30 May, 2014 at 19:56
#92Ploegskaar
Guys, if there is one thing that we need to clear up, and I have said this before, is that schools don’t recruit per se and they offer few if any rugby bursaries. Ambitious old boys, outside coaches and parents are responsible for both recruitment and funding via an OB trust or private capacity. Traditional bursaries are still available and the amount and size of those depend on the schools’ size and school fees, but are awarded across many sporting codes and for academics and culture.
What is true is that schools initially benefited from this, but turned a blind eye. Now many have been hijacked and become the vehicle to satisfy unfulfilled ambitions, misplaced pride, someone’s kleinpielie complex or inflated egos. Either way, they are not directly involved, but definitely not unaware and, if they were honest, uncomfortably joined at the hip.
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30 May, 2014 at 19:55
#91GreenBlooded
@Deon Pitzer: I’ll say again – I don’t like it at all. I much prefered the days when I was at school where playing for your school’s 1st XV was an honour earned through hard work through the age-groups. All that has changed now – and not for the better IMO. Maybe Jonas wasn’t a good example then – I’m not from WC so don’t know the pedigree of all the schools so no offense meant to Swellendam. My point is still that there is some merit for the individual in being indentified removed from an environment where he would perhaps otherwise go unnoticed and develop that player into something special, even though the motives of the school involved may or may not be savory.
I was just putting it up for discussion so don’t jump on me.
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30 May, 2014 at 19:36
#90Deon Pitzer
@GreenBlooded: Swellendam plays CW in a good province, and don’t flatter yourself on Curtis Jonas. Stefan Terblanché went to that very same school. I have little against buying players or poaching or whatever, but I don’t like schools boasting about their sbr power when in fact they are playing mercenaries. This situation gives the idea that the boy is bigger than the school, otherwise the boy would have approached the school. as a matter of playing for honour in the first place, bursary in the second place. If Jonas had approached schools around the corner like the Paarl schools, I am sure he would have been well looked after as well. But then again, schools with enough prestige, and honourable tradition, do not have to beg and bribe to attract good material. If you are good enough, they will come, and then provide them with what they need. I am saying this in no way meaning GW is not such a school, please, don’t get that wrong.
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30 May, 2014 at 19:16
#89Vin
@Zulu: No zulu, how many of the arguments on these blogs are about rankings and that filters through to the schools who when they are in the top use them as advertising. This has nothing to do with KES being in or out of the top 20. The rankings are placing pressure on the schools to perform and some are going to great lengths to get in or stay in the top 20 by turning a blind eye to steroids, overage etc. Gone are the days when it was about the boys now it’s about the schools, the old boys and the unions. Hope that is clear enough for you!
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30 May, 2014 at 18:46
#88GreenBlooded
Sorry if this has been posted before – but a really good article:
@Zulu: Agree 100%. Anyone leaving primary school is fair game. He is free to go to any high school in any province. No foul there.
Although I am at odds with the ethics of poaching players from rival schools, there was a blogger who made a very important point the other day which got me thinking. What about a boy who has abundant talent but is sitting in a school that is not in the main stream. Curtis Jonas is a classic example – had Glenwood not recognised his talent and brought him in from Swellendam High School – he would probably have played in their 1st XV this year and never heard of again. Now he is in a Craven week team and likely to further himself after leaving school. I that a good thing or a bad thing? Interesting debate.
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30 May, 2014 at 18:31
#86Zulu
Being a Hilton old Boy I think the ownership of the MHS is different (I think MHS is owned by the Anglican Church) Hilton is owned by the Hilton Trust which is the old boys. Hilton offer plenty of Scholarships and bursaries to the extent that I wonder who is actually paying!! As the Old Boys effectively own the school and it is run as a NFP they dont have to answer to shareholders for a financial return so they can plough the cash back into the school.
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30 May, 2014 at 18:13
#85Zulu
@Anti Green: No they get poached by Westville ala Chad Le Clos
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30 May, 2014 at 18:05
#84Zulu
@Vin: what you mean to say is “Ban ranking systems when KES are out of the top 20”
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30 May, 2014 at 17:59
#83Zulu
@MikeSt: Sorry what seems to be the problem here? Primary school pupils are entitled to go to any High School of their choosing. If Dr EG Jansen was prepaired to match or better the offer then they may have gone their but they chose not to. Live with it!!
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30 May, 2014 at 17:49
#82Grasshopper
@Predator: Agreed, headmasters with huge ego’s and chips on their shoulders are the worst of this kind. I particularly dislike those who keep quiet in a bad PR malaise and put their heads in the sand. Don’t get me the wrong the job is a hard one, especially at a boys only school of over 1000 boys, but ethics and morals need to be upheld. The funniest thing for me at Glenwood this last weekend, all the ‘VIP’ old boys got a special area to sit on the stands, these are most likely the biggest contributors to the bursary funds. Like Roman kings they watch their ‘assets’ perform. I chuckled a little as a ‘nobody’ Old Boy sitting in the plebs section, even though I run a multi-million rand business. Some of these headmasters think they something special and that have the right to do and say what they like. Old Boys will start to look elsewhere if these sorts of dodgy practices keep on happening……I know of a GOB blogger on here who sends his son to another school for these reasons….
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30 May, 2014 at 17:44
#81Dixon’s
Recently it has been overage players, steroids and poaching that has everyone up in arms… but in the mid to late 90s it was post matrics that got everyone crazy!
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30 May, 2014 at 17:41
#80Roger
@Predator: you got it spot on – I think the other thread re: Affies pulling the plug on Garsies will be a record blog for Beet and although I am not following it all I admire Dr Edward’s stance and guts. It takes a real tough head to stand up to all the various pressure groups and do the right thing.
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30 May, 2014 at 17:11
#79Anti Green
@Grasshopper: Why was that did you guys start school early? I’m sure Dennis Baronet was a little vintage in Matric. Big game you guys have tomorrow. Monument is a good this year was impressed with them at the KERF. Game of the day
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30 May, 2014 at 16:57
#78Predator
@Grasshopper: I think that the most powerful person in this chaos is the headmasters. Only they,….if they have any integrity,….can stop this rot. I lay a lot of the blame at their doors,..they have the final say what can or cannot happen at their schools. I have served on school boards for many years, the sport is part of the education system that is dictated by goverment and implimented by headmasters with the help and support of the governing bodies. There was a big debate elsewhere about Affies and Dr Edwards pulling the plug,…a good example where the buck stops at Affies and all the other schools in SA. To try and cover the rot with academic results has got absolutely nothing to do with whats wrong with SBR. I often attend games of schools that are nowhere near the superschool performance, hype and all the other things that are done for sponsor exposure. It really looks like the “not so prominent ” kids are enjoying and even laughing after a loss when they come of the field. They just enjoyed this wonderful game that is so part of our DNA it is scary at times. This to me is more important than all the other BS that is promoted all the time.
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30 May, 2014 at 16:54
#77Grasshopper
@Anti Green: Yep, I remember that well. We had 16 year olds playing 19 year olds…we got a nice hidings by House in the ‘post toastie’ years…..
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30 May, 2014 at 16:47
#76Grasshopper
Yeah, agreed this whole poaching, buying, kidnapping etc debate is old and boring now. Glenwood poach, Hilton poach, KES poach, Westville poach…..many schools do. The small privates don’t need to poach as much…..let’s move onto talking about tomorrow’s games now…I heard Monnas tried to poach Sean Erasmus too….
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30 May, 2014 at 16:46
#75Anti Green
@meadows: Meadows I thing around 93/94 can’t remember,MHS pulled in about 5 Grey Bloem players. Herkie Kruger was one of them. They did post Matric so it was according to the system MHS had at the time(they weren’t poached but I’m sure they were bought) I think that led the charge for change.
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30 May, 2014 at 16:39
#74Dixon’s
@meadows: I still remember that 99 team with Herkie Kruger at 10…. lucky it was before the internet/blogs really got going, not a great memory for House fans! I remember them coming to Glenwood and giving us a big hiding… the House captain ( the lock if i remember correctly) got a red card and Glenwood still got outscrummed with a man up!
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30 May, 2014 at 16:35
#73Speartackle
BIG BOOK SALE
942 James Hadley Chase novels for sale
18 Jackie Collins
42 Jeffrey Archer
8 Mario Puzo
16 Andre P Brink
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30 May, 2014 at 16:35
#72meadows
@Roger: I’m unaware of anyone ever having been “poached” by MHS. That said the school, or perhaps better put the odd old boy, did not cover itself in glory towards the end of the post matric era.
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30 May, 2014 at 16:29
#71Dixon’s
@Grasshopper: I would be guessing if I said the figure was 60% of the boys….
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30 May, 2014 at 16:27
#70Anti Green
@beet: Beet these articles on buying/poaching are getting tired now. Are there any articles about what the schools are going to do to stop it? Any articles on women’s rugby or how are they poached?
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30 May, 2014 at 16:25
#69Roger
not all school’s buy (‘scuse the pun) into this crap. How about schools in Noordvaal such as St Davids, St Benedicts and St Albans or St Charles in KZN or Woodridge in PE or St Andrews in Bloem – and I am sure there are very many more examples. Rugby is just one sport offered at the school adn yet (unless someone can prove me wrong) I am sure they don’t battle in attracting applications?
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30 May, 2014 at 16:17
#68beet
I always think you learn a lot about a move by whether or not there was communication between the two schools beforehand.
This year in KZN a talented player moved from one high school to another. The school he wanted to move to was totally above board. They communicated with the boy’s current school and I think they even sent the parents back to current school to explain the situation and try to resolve their issues. This all happened before the transfer took place.
When a player disappears without a trace it’s usually a poach.
But I always say that if a responsible parent/guardian makes the decision, we can question the integrity of the poacher school but the decision has to be respected.
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30 May, 2014 at 16:17
#67upcountry
@beet: Spot on Beet. That is why there must be bursaries at glenwood. How else are we going to be able to school our kids
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30 May, 2014 at 16:15
#66Grasshopper
@Dixon’s: BUT, about 60% of the kids go to Glenwood though…
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30 May, 2014 at 16:15
#65Anti Green
@Dixon’s: Thanks, thought the opposite gives the public the wrong impression.
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30 May, 2014 at 16:14
#64Dixon’s
@Anti Green: Glenwood Prep is in no way connected to Glenwood High. The school used to known as Parkview Primary, but changed its colours and name a few years ago to give the impression that they where asscoiated with Glenwood!
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30 May, 2014 at 16:09
#63Grasshopper
@Anti Green: Many go to Westville I believe, also DHS…..the Glenwood Prep headmaster is a DHS Old Boy so probably pushing the boys to go elsewhere….I could be wrong…
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30 May, 2014 at 16:08
#62beet
You can really tell a lot of people’s financial position by how much value they attach to their statements – 2c, 5c, 10c. Upcountry down to using s cents. Spear probably issues IOU’s with what he has to say
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30 May, 2014 at 16:07
#61Grasshopper
@Roger: I agree, blame me and Glenwood for the poaching plight we have now with all the schools in SA. I should partner with Speartackle so we have a presence in the Cape too. I could be up in Paarl & Stellies every weekend offering bursaries to other schools….
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30 May, 2014 at 16:07
#60Anti Green
@MikeSt: Would be interesting to see how many kids from GW Prep are offered bursaries from and then go to other schools. If the % is high, then why have a feeder school. It would be less of a headache and cost you less. As you could use all the other schools as your feeder school. How many of the kids at GW Prep actually end up at GW?
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30 May, 2014 at 15:57
#59Roger
I blame Glenwood and Grasshopper – all their fault
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30 May, 2014 at 15:53
#58upcountry
@Grasshopper: If i may contribute my s cents worth. My son went to a small nortern natal primary school. During nortern natal u/12 and u/13 trials he was in the “wrong school”. A certain Mr erasmus then offered him a bursary at glenwood for grade 8 which was fine for the lad untill he realised he had to board. He respectfully declined. A lot of the local education fraternity was a bit miffed with his decision but he decided to attend the local highschool. In grade 10 he again declined the oppertunity to play with leroux van zyl at DHS(his u14and u/15 flyhalf.) He now plays for the NWU Puk u/19B team and is currently invoved with their rugby institute.
The point i am trying to make at last is that bursarys in lower grades is fine to my mind as long as it is done openly and above board as in our case. The school can not be attacked because it is trying to improve its various sporting codes. I personally have a problem with importing soldiers in grade 11 and 12. Your coaching structures should pick up problem areas before grade 10 and rectify it then
Ps even northern natal schools is “poaching” in durban now !!
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30 May, 2014 at 15:49
#57meadows
@Vleis: i think that the transition to professionalism in our rugby has been badly managed or perhaps not managed at all. We do not have a functioning intermediate level like College football in the US to channel progression to the NFL from the high school system where aspirant pros are able to develop further in a controlled environment while hopefully obtaining a useful College qualification.
Our youngsters are contracted straight into the pro set up from school with very little chance of completing a proper university degree to equip them for life as one of the 90+% that do not make it past the U21 stage. Varsity Cup is a wonderful afterthought, intended to play the College football role. albeit in parallel with the junior pro structures, but has evolved into pro 3rd team competition rather than a forum for genuine students to keep their rugby aspirations alive.
The proximity of pro rugby to high school rugby has resulted IMO in increased professionalism, with its good and bad characteristics, manifesting in the schoolboy game. The positives are things such as conditioning, analysis, facilities and coaching while the negatives are brought about by the increased pressure brought to bear on schools and kids, through greater exposure, resulting in increased poaching, steroid abuse, and educational compromises.
Sadly I think that the horse has bolted and it is only going to get worse because no-one has the will to do anything about it. In time, if they aren’t already, these issues will be seen at prep schools.
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30 May, 2014 at 15:47
#56Deon Pitzer
@Speartackle: As long as you conduct your operations according to GAPP!
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30 May, 2014 at 15:37
#55Ploegskaar
@Speartackle: Now that’s a novel idea, can’t imagine how no-one has thought about that and that there aren’t people like that already. Now just imagine someone was doing that for no money or recognition.
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30 May, 2014 at 15:35
#54kosie
@Speartackle: And you contact details, sorry not yours, RRPA are????
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30 May, 2014 at 15:19
#53Speartackle
I think I should start a Recognised Registered Poaching Agency (RRPA) I’ll become a freelance poacher for any school/client. For a small commission I’ll get whoever the school/client needs and nobody can trace it back to the school. If school A wants an u/16 scrumhalf I’ll find him and from the commission I will then pay all his fees, expenses and even negotiate the parents’ expenses as well depending on the package paid by my client. Nobody can then point fingers at a school rather at RRPA.
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30 May, 2014 at 15:12
#52Tang
@Vleis @ Sharkie
Vleis you are spot on.
PBHS had a very good side last year but in the previous three or four years the sides started the season slowly and then improved drastically in the second half of the season.
PBHS have had four first team coaches over the last 7/8 years and this is also a factor. Many teachers who were good rugby coaches have been lost to private schools and this has had the impact on the age group teams.
In terms of answering Sharkies questions – Demand for the school is still excellent. However, demand for boarding is not as strong as three/ four years back. I would put this down to the scholarships being offered by the likes of Jeppe, etc. I know of two boys who were about to board at Boys High but were lured to Jeppe on scholarships.
There is no doubt that the gap between schools who offer bursaries and those who don’t is getting wider and wider. PBHS will have to take drastic action to make sure rugby is put back on a par with some of the schools who are offering bursaries. Before Boys High rush out and give bursaries, they need to have a clear plan and I believe this is currently being put in place.
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30 May, 2014 at 15:09
#51Vleis
@meadows: I’m not sure, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they do not offer a significant number of bursaries. Bear in mind that they have world class rugby brands already, so they probably do not need to offer scholarships. Having said that, I definitely remember a furore a few years ago when GCB provided slips of paper to star performers at the GK u16 week, inviting them to attend GCB.
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30 May, 2014 at 14:42
#50Vin
@Dixon’s: I agree with you 100%, old boy pressure, ranking system, sponsors and the falling away of the club system main reason for why we are here today.
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30 May, 2014 at 14:38
#49Grasshopper
@Dixon’s: I agree with you, this blog and others do fuel the fire, but we can’t stop freedom of speech though. There are headmasters on here for sure, they may even be blogging under Avatars we all know well. What would be great on a blog like this is to require your actual name and surname to post, then suddenly the trolls will disappear. All that is said here should be things we willing to tell the coaches and headmasters to their face.
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30 May, 2014 at 14:38
#48Grasshopper
@Roger: I think we need to keep dreaming unfortunately. I actually don’t mind weaker years, it makes the stronger years more sweet! Ranking systems have not helped either…
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30 May, 2014 at 14:34
#47Dixon’s
i honestly think that all of us on this blog are part of the problem… hear me out… we are all passionate about SBR and the schools we support… we fuel the fire!!!! in the last 10 years interest has exploded in SBR and in particular the 1st XV results. if there wasnt such massive interest in sport would the schools honestly spend such massive amounts of money on it. I will give everyone here credit in saying that most of us are against poaching and all the negative things that come with rugby success, but seriously guys it is here to stay and there is very little that any of us can do about it unless by some miracle someone from this blog becomes a headmaster of a major rugby playing school.
to add my 10 cents about a possible solution…. what about a rule that schools can only spend the same amount of money on sports bursaries that they spend for academic bursaries?
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30 May, 2014 at 14:34
#46meadows
@Vleis: it would be interesting to know how many sports bursaries are awarded at other big rugby schools such as Grey College, Paul Roos and Paarl Boys for eg. I believe that it is very few if any but I may be wrong.
It seems to me that the bulk of the controversy is fueled by the actions of schools wanted to establish themselves as “rugby” schools.
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30 May, 2014 at 14:30
#45Grasshopper
@Predator: Totally agree with you. What for me has been the catalyst for all of this was the sudden big brand sponsorship of jersey’s etc about 10 years ago with Mr Price sponsoring a number of schools. Other big brands like Adidas, Puma etc joined the band wagon and now even telecoms for Boishaai. With this sponsorship comes probable winning clauses eg Puma, we will only supply X amount if the team wins 80% of it’s games, plays of TV 3 times and plays at 3 festivals. Sports brands only associate themselves with winners. Look how quickly the sports sponsors pulled the plug on Oscar and Tiger. So TV stations followed and now we have about 3 different franchises, Premier Schools, FNB Classic Clashes and others. It’s become a business where the pawns are the boys, who are not professional and still having to get an education. These kids are still kids and you see adult men treating them like heroes. Unfortunately certain festival contracts have been signed and sponsorship deals agreed so unless schools are prepared to default on agreements with the sponsors I don’t see it ending. Bishops claim no No’s on jersey’s and no sponsorship, but at the school all the signage is done by Vital Health, money there for sure. Spiraling from this is stupid schedules where schoolboys are playing 20 plus games in a season, more than some professional rugby players play and they getting well paid and their bodies are matured enough to. With this pressure comes in steroids, recruitment, promises, lies, deceit and everything against a schools ethos……it’s rotten at the core…
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30 May, 2014 at 14:29
#44Vleis
@sharkie: You already have a precedent in Pretoria Boys. I’m told that Boys High offer zero sport scholarships (there may be a single Jacques Kallis cricket scholarship). I think that their cricket, waterpolo, etc are still fine, but there is no doubt that their rugby has declined significantly in the past five years, especially the age group teams. In the five years from 2003 to 2008, Boys High 1st team beat Affies three times drew once and lost twice. In the five years since 2008, Boys high have lost seven times in a row to Affies and mostly by large score-lines.
I’m sure that there are still many boys applying to go to the great school, but I’m told that Boys High are finally going to start offering scholarships next year. If that isn’t an endorsement for offering scholarships then nothing is. Perhaps Tang could shed more light on the matter.
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30 May, 2014 at 14:05
#43Vin
@GreenBlooded: you obviously joined the conversation late…nothing bad been said here mate. Just thinking what would be best for school boy rugby. Take a deep breath scroll to the top and read careful instead of going on the defensive after reading 3 or 4 comments. Read/take in/breath/comment.
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30 May, 2014 at 14:04
#42Playa
@Grasshopper: I have absolutely no problem mate with it mate. It’s just sad to lose those boys.
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30 May, 2014 at 14:03
#41kosie
@sharkie: A well known school in the Noordvaal was very competitive in all sport. Bursaries/ schoraships were stopped with a new headmadter. They are nowhere in sport anymore.
So success breads success and leads to that perception of a successfull school. This evil is here to stay unfortunately
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30 May, 2014 at 14:02
#40GreenBlooded
@Vin: Strange how the reaction is totally different when one’s own school does it. Always a valid excuse or plausible explanation. Pot / Kettle stuff. Remember who the bad guys are in the main article in this thread.
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30 May, 2014 at 14:01
#39Vin
And ban ranking systems!!!
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30 May, 2014 at 13:54
#38sharkie
I would love a school to set the precedent and offer no bursary for say a 5 year period and see if the demand for the school diminishes…i dont believe it would as there is in our country going to be a greater demand placed on education. Sad that it has got to this level
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30 May, 2014 at 13:49
#37Roger
Or here’s a novel thought – cut it out altogether, develop your own talent and accept the good years and the bad – pipe dream?
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30 May, 2014 at 13:41
#36Predator
This article is only the tip of the ” Rugby Berg ” . I don’t even think that a law against it will work. It all boils down to prestige and money for the top performing schools in SA and the spin offs ( sponsors ) they get from it. The schools are always in need of money for facilities, tours, and paying the extra educational personnel they employ to reduce the class sizes. This puts extra pressure on the schools ,….and believe it or not but good rugby results provide an easier path to approach sponsors , and lure the financially sound parents / business to sponsor the school. The pressure on the kids to perform is immense and often the academic time is “offered ” just to perform better in the rugby. ONLY the schools benefit not the kids. The carrot is always the exposure they provide and the platforms they create for their players to be seen and contracted. BELIEVE ME THAT ONLY A FEW KIDS MAKE IT TO THE UNIONS, what happens to the hundreds maybe thousands that sacrificed there academic future for school rugby. It is not about the kids , it is about the schools. The evil of the MONEY MAMMON and don’t forget the PRESTIGE has hit the top schools with ” force majeure”. Lets not forget the media influence and the marketing frenzy that accompany this phenomenon. I honestly believe that the gain for the few is not worth the pain for the masses. I love this sport , but it is spiraling out of control at this level.
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30 May, 2014 at 13:39
#35sharkie
I understand that a portion of the monies come from old boys etc but my take on it as an old boy myself is that i would prefer those monies to be used to give someone the chance at an education rather than a chance to play A team sport and then perhaps not go on after school. What would be interesting to see is the percentage of boys at school that were on bursaries that go on to play provincial level after school.
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30 May, 2014 at 13:38
#34Grasshopper
@Vin: yep, the result of a purely capitalist environment. The strong survive and the weak die, it’s cut throat. A degree of socialism would help. Maybe ‘weaker’ schools get bigger gov grants…
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30 May, 2014 at 13:33
#33Vin
We run the risk of all our top rugby players landing up in the top 20 schools (some of them will land up playing 2nds and 3rds and won’t get the exposure) leaving everyone else to get thrashed by them. I say introduce a US American draft system letting the bottom schools get first choice at CW U13 and then work their way down from there. This would create an awesome and fair school boy rugby scenario. But we all know that this would never happen so let the strong get stronger and the mid to lower tier wither away.
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30 May, 2014 at 13:27
#32kosie
@sharkie: You are 100% correct. Somewhere somebody has to pay for all the bursaries/ scholarships. There is nothing for nothing in life and very little for something.
If I give you a bursary, you must play rugby for me, if you don’t want to, I up the money to the point where you do want to. Most of the money however does not come from the school fees directly.
Old boys and trusts play a big part
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30 May, 2014 at 13:25
#31Vleis
@sharkie: Re subsidising the scholarship kids, I’d say that:
– at large traditional govt schools, it is largely the old boys** who subsidise the scholarship kids; and
– at private schools, it is a mixture of other parents and old boys** that subsidise the other kids. The older the private school (e.g. Hilton, St Andrew’s) the larger the old boy funding and the newer the private school the larger the parent funding.
** “old boys” includes current old boys, bequeathed amounts, bequeathed annuity scholarships, foundations, etc, etc.
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30 May, 2014 at 13:23
#30sharkie
Sorry this is not a dig at any school as it is happening across the board so no one school i believe is better or worse than anyone else
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30 May, 2014 at 13:15
#29sharkie
the crazy part for me is that schools are digging a whole for themselves as the whole bursary/scholarship is getting out of hand. If nothing was given out the boys would still have to go to school and so would support there school in the community or if they had the means would go private. Are we not ending up like english football where lets face it the palyers are getting paid absolute fortunes to play as a result of the bidding that has got out of control. What must also be remembered is that for the other 95% of parents whose kids are not on some form of bursary are subsidising these kids. So the more that is given out means the more that needs to be subsidised.
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30 May, 2014 at 13:15
#28Vin
@Grasshopper: I didn’t have a go at GW at all just corrected Roger and filled him in where the boys were spotted and how many polo players have left KEPS/KES to go to GW.
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30 May, 2014 at 13:06
#27meadows
@Grasshopper: Sure, but again not that many. Being good at sport as well as being strong enough to get an academic scholarship would certainly enhance the applicants chances.
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30 May, 2014 at 13:01
#26Grasshopper
@meadows: Yes, but you do give out bursaries for academics who are good at sport. I was one of those in the mix in 1991, unfortunately I did not get one though….
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30 May, 2014 at 12:56
#25Grasshopper
@Roger: Not sure what it is with you KES folk, why do you dislike us so much? We are of similar age, traditions and ethos. It just boggles the mind how a school can make judgements about another school based on hearsay, grapevines, bloggers, rival schools etc….maybe actually play against Glenwood and you’ll find out it’s a great school with similar traditions etc. My grandfather, who is a KES Old Boy, loves Glenwood as it reminds him of his days at KES….weird….
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30 May, 2014 at 12:54
#24meadows
@Grasshopper: I don’t want to be pedantic but MHS award very few sports scholarships a year (it used to be two but this may have changed) and rugby has to compete with sports like cricket and hockey for these. There are of course partial support awards as well as the odd sponsor but the experience has shown that awarding scholarships to rugby players based on U13 CW performances is a lottery. Often these boys are simply early developers who are then outstripped by others through their teenage years.
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30 May, 2014 at 12:51
#23Vin
@Roger: I think KES view is they haven’t done anything wrong so why issue a statement when it’s a storm in a teacup. SACS have over reacted and once again are SACS not in the wrong trying to ambush this boy from leaving by phoning both headmasters and asking them not to accept him?
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30 May, 2014 at 12:50
#22Roger
@Vin: hmmm – KES given Glenwood the SACS treatment – take your invite to our tournament and shove it up your proverbial.
Amazing that they have their scouts up here for Polo and Rugby – KES better watch their top young cricketers and hockey players or they will soon be dissapearing too
And yes dog eats do as you said. Things like this just make life for a small school 450 boys of which less than 150 are active sportsman so difficult as the pool of available boys is very small especially if you don’t have a boarding school.
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30 May, 2014 at 12:46
#20Vin
@Grasshopper: Would be great if Glenwood took that money they spend on scholarships and pump it into their primary school using it to develop in house talent.
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30 May, 2014 at 12:46
#19Vin
@Roger: The U13 boy was the Gauteng Captain and played for the U14’s. He was spotted at the Jeppe U14 tournament. Glenwood do not attend the KES water polo tournament and don’t think they will attend it – these 3 boys weren’t the first to be shipped off to Glenwood we’ve lost a total of 5 polo players in the last 4yrs.
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30 May, 2014 at 12:42
#18Roger
@Vin: I wish KES would give their version of events on this – I was told they would?
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30 May, 2014 at 12:39
#17Grasshopper
@MikeSt: Well same can be said for boys going to UK private schools from SA, 6000 miles away. Distance is not the issue here, it’s so competitive between Westville, College, DHS, Northwood, Michaelhouse, Hilton & Kearsney at grade 8 level, that the privates get first pick and by then the cream has gone. To compete with the cream the Gov schools have to look far and wide. They first went to Northern Natal and now looking even further to the Eastern Cape, Western Cape and Pretoria. Life is hard and it’s a dog eat dog world out there. Rugby is a schools flagship sport and unfortunately many people judge how good a school is on their rugby results. Glenwood set this goal for themselves and have to try and bring in a great crop of grade 8’s every year…..I don’t agree with it but what else should they do….?
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30 May, 2014 at 12:39
#16Roger
@Vin: hmmmm – were Glenwood invited to the KES waterpolo festival or did they spot these boys at the SACS festival I wonder?
i thought they were all KEPS boys?
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30 May, 2014 at 12:39
#15MikeSt
@Grasshopper: The issue is not the bursaries at all as yes all schools do it including EG Jansen. But why oh why take boys from 600km away to your school.
Surely there is enough talent in KZN to recruit from?
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30 May, 2014 at 12:34
#14Grasshopper
And point is StMike has no leg to stand on here as these boys are primary school and are free to receive bursaries from any school they wish..
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30 May, 2014 at 12:33
#13Grasshopper
@Vin: Yes, but the 24 schools contract signed last year allows recruitment up to grade 10. I don’t like that but that is the ruling, so far as I am aware. I would prefer it to be grade 8 only…..
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30 May, 2014 at 12:32
#12Vin
@Grasshopper: The SACS conversation has been exhausted but for the record I will state the following:
1. He was not approached by KES rather a Wits member who has nothing to
do with KES.
2. He was told to either apply to St Johns or KES
3. He is not on a scholarship, his school fees are paid out of his late
father’s trust.
4. His mother works in Gauteng.
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30 May, 2014 at 12:28
#11Vleis
@Vin: @Grasshopper: Also, the KES/SACS was a Union poach, not a school poach. The SACS boy could have chosen to go to KES or St John’s.
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30 May, 2014 at 12:26
#10Vin
@Grasshopper: Very defensive, I’m not having a go I’m just stating that they weren’t all primary school boys.
@Grasshopper: Last year was 1 grade 7 and 2 Grade 10’s from KEPS and KES. All water polo players.
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30 May, 2014 at 12:19
#7Grasshopper
@Roger: Again, what is the issue with recruitment at grade 8 level, all schools do it. Glenwood have been clever enough to look further afield than just KZN……
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30 May, 2014 at 12:16
#6Roger
@MikeSt: three KEPS (King Edward Preparatory School) boys were taken from KEPS to Glenwood on full bursaries last year – all great sportsmen. Talk about common boundaries – the schools are on the same campus!! The Green Masjien obviously have their scouts at the KES festival every year too!
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30 May, 2014 at 12:15
#5Grasshopper
@Playa: Guys, what is the problem with offering bursaries at grade 8 level? Sorry, this is normal practice. Kids don’t belong to a province or school, their parents are obviously looking for the best for their kids. If I had been offered a Michaelhouse bursary in grade 8 I would have gone there instead of Glenwood no doubt, what is the difference now…
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30 May, 2014 at 12:07
#4Playa
@MikeSt: Eish! More Dale Junior boys to end up at Glenwood
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30 May, 2014 at 12:04
#3Grasshopper
@MikeSt: At Primary school level it’s a known practice to ‘recruit’ boys and give out bursaries for high school. It’s being going on for over 50 years, what is different here? Westville give out 60 to 70 bursaries a year. It becomes a problem when the recruitment is done later on at high school. Boet, get with the times it’s tough and competitive out there between the schools, especially at grade 8 level….
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30 May, 2014 at 12:02
#2MikeSt
HERE IS ONE FOR THE GLENWOOD BOYS.
We have just learnt from Concordia Primary School who for those that don’t know is the feeding school for Dr EG Jansen we actually share a boundary wall (thats how close they are) have had 6 1ST XV BOYS THAT HAVE BEEN SIGNED UP BY GLENWOOD IN DURBAN WITH FULL BURSARY PLUS FLIGHT TICKETS HOME etc etc.
And then people wanna talk about poaching, stealing or whatever.
THE WORST IS THE THE UNDER 13 CRAVEN WEEK IS HOSTED AT GLENWOOD JUST IMAGINE WHAT WILL BE HAPPENING THERE.
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30 May, 2014 at 11:34
#1Playa
Soon…schools will stop attending festivals, then schools will refuse their boys from being considered for provincial representation…and and and!
If any of my four sons had been offered a bursary in grade 8 to any of the top KZN schools (academics and sport) I would have taken it with both hands, especially the private schools offering small class numbers. Unfortunately i had to pay full fees. Whether the bursary is for academics or sport, a motivating factor is for the school concerned to achieve marketable results. Top matric results attract fee-paying customers as much as sports results – especially rugby. KC offers bursaries for their choir and obviously uses their world-beating choir as a marketing tool. Cool. There are surely many boys around the country who would love to attend a top private or model-c school if their parents could afford the fees, so poaching or any other form of bursary must provide these boys, and their hard-pressed families, with a not-to-be-missed opportunity. And if they don’t make it to higher honours in rugby (or singing), who cares as long as they are getting a superior education?
@Vin: The U14 lad is a national swimmer and has joined Graham Hill in the GW Elite Academy. One of the Grade 10 boys is his brother who is not on a bursary at GW. The other boy too is not on any bursary and has joined GW’s Elite Academy. I believe that GW did follow normal protocol and informed KES before accepting the applications.
@McCulleys Workshop: Shame must be hard getting round, rugby injury? Do you want me to sign the register for you? Which Year?
@Tang: I think 1250 boys, not all bursaries are 100% though. Westville are subsidized heavily by wealthy old boys and families…
@Grasshopper – 45 bursaries means 225 boys per year are not paying fees (school and boarding).
How many boys are there at Glenwood?
If Westville offer 60 to 70 bursaries per year, then they have between 300 and 350 boys on bursary. That is about 1/3 of the school on bursary.
Are these numbers correct?
@Anti Green: @McCulleys Workshop:
I’ve made this point on Post Matrics a few times. In the 70’s you generally finished school at 17. Post matric was conceived as a bridging year – initially I think with a view to doing A levels and going on to an offshore university. At that time I doubt that there were very many 17 year olds in the CW sides – the majority were 18. Even the great Danie Gerber who played 3 years SA Schools was 19 in his final year. in Natal so were the likes of Mike Barker who played SA Schools in ’78 at the age of 19. I don’t think that a few 18 year old post matrics gave the privates any significant advantage then and the results would bear this out. This may have changed in the ’80’s and 90’s when the matriculation age was 18 and post matrics 19 but again I suspect that the results were much the same.
@Anti Green: Negative – my hip replacements playing up
@McCulleys Workshop: Went to the same school as you, was in the 91 side. That was my point, boys were offered to do a Post Matric, almost like a bridging year. They weren’t poached to specifically come to MHS to play sport. It did seem to change at one stage. Generally there were an array of different people in Post Matric. Head Boy was generally Post Matric. Will at House next week end for Old Boys Day and you?
Grasshopper.What you your @Grasshopper: Grasshopper what you actually highlight is the inadequacies of the system of selecting CW teams.It shouldn’t make a difference at all which school your mates went to if they were good enough they should have been spotted.However we know it doesn’t work like that as most selectors are attached to a school (not saying they are biased) and thus are occupied on a Saturday with their school.These guys then are more acquainted with the schools and players that their school plays against.In a ideal world you would have totally independent selectors who were able attend more out of the way games etc.This isn’t going to happen so we are stuck with the system that we have got.
@tzavosky: Thank you for your enlightening story, Beet was on this topic last year, are the Sharks feeding certain Durban schools like Glenwood and Northwood and if they offer bursaries to GK players, is this a semi pink ticket into CW. All intriguing.
@Anti Green: Not sure where you went to school, but MHS offered post matric sports bursarys from as early as the late 70’s (might have been earlier). In the 90’s an Old Boy funded 3/4 post matrics each year, and 2 were invariably from Grey, yes and Herkie was one of them. In 99 or 2000 they had 3 Grey players, and a Ladysmith lad. They gave Hilton 40 points and the return match was cancelled because they felt they were at risk playing against a front row of about 330 kg’s. Not a bad call. Funnily enough, the sponsors son was kept out the first side that year due to the post matrics. At the time I thought the process was fair, as we played against schools with 1200 boys who were notorious for having players whose best 3 years at school were matric. With hindsight, the system was flawed as it kept players out the side who had played A team at age group level only to be outed when they got to matric, by a pupil who was either a post matric recruit, or just a MHS scholar who was doing a post matric. Most of the post matrics were head boys etc so it removed the opportunity for many matric boys. I think it was a legit intention to bridge the gap between school and varsity, particularly for the younger matriculant and to provide a gap year of sorts. The wholesale import of sportsmen was wrong.
Can anybody tell me what team the 2 boys from Dale is playing at Glenwood
@tzavosky: Wrt the Upington boy. I am sure there will always be some cloak and dagger Old Boy, “bloody agent” around, for PRG as well. Don’t know wether this is the case here wrt PG, but one never knows.
@Grasshopper: It was wrong to single out a specific school. I apologise. In fact, for the purposes of this discussion we should all put on SBR jerseys. I am sure that none of our schools are completely blameless.
What makes me laugh is that people think Glenwood is a rich school with unlimited cash. We are in fact a middle class school with not that much cash to flash. We offer 45 bursaries at grade 8 level and maybe a few others. The way people speak on here it’s if Glenwood give our hundreds of bursaries. Some kids move genuinely with their parents paying fees….
@Ploegskaar: Must say, I am really impressed with your English. I learned another English word, rather expression, from you “kleinpielie complex”. This is a beautiful development of appropriate language use.
@Grasshopper: “Rugby boys are coming to us.”
In more way than one they do, Hopper. GW’s Bizsport tournament is one you could mention. Two of Ben Vorster’s u16 side, who beat GW at this year’s tourney, received bursaries, ostensibly from the Sharks, to attend GW next year. Quite neat!
@Deon Pitzer: “As I said, some schools do not have to go to that extent”
Not saying this is what happened, Deon, but the Rikus Bothma story intriques me. I’ve noticed that he played GK for Griquas Country Districts for two consecutive years whilst at Upington, then moved to Paarl Gym.
This could have been a genuine relocation, I don’t know. But it struck me that last year Upington withdrew from their fixture with PG with no reasons being put forward. Again, maybe a coincidence, I don’t know.
But I guess recruitment happens all over the place in one way or another and we should accept it and move on.
@Deon Pitzer: to be completely honest as an ex 2nd team player and old boy, I really don’t care if Glenwood can compete with the big league schools, all that really counts for us is beating Westville, College and DHS in that order. If we win all 3 it’s a great season for us. The recruitment stuff certainly isn’t coming from Glenwood Old Boys. It’s coaches brought in by the DHS old boy headmaster. I would prefer to go back to my day when we were average at everything except athletics….winning on the rugga field is not everything. I preferred throwing the discus further than any KES, College, PBHS or DHS boy….what a great feeling, especially being smaller than all my competitors…Rudi Dames the Glenwood coach is not even an old boy….
@Grasshopper: Not one approached by PRG proven this far. Some, not lots of hearsay, sometimes threats to “reveal” top secret documents, but no , no apptoaches, at least not by the school. Anyway, even if there were such approaches, believe me, they were not bizarre actions 1300 km’s away, or at the East Rand. Northern Suburb boys cannot wait to approach the various big WC rugby schools, most within 50 km from their homes. Nothing at all comparable to the facts we have all been provided with regarding GW. Nothing tangibly wrong with it Hopper. You are getting me wrong. Just damn akward the way you guys go about it. The extent of your efforts!
@Deon Pitzer: I would not be coming from from a whiter than white perspective, plenty of Northern suburb friends kids approached by Paul Roos with bursaries. I feel sorry for the likes of Tygerberg etc. Hard to compete with a full Paul Roos bursary….
@Grasshopper: 800 applications, 550 turned away. Some local homegrown KZN boys dreaming of attending a prestige school like GW, ignored because GW need the services of a better rugby player 1300 km away in order to maintain its rugby prominence in KZN. Shame on you Hopper. Good to hear the success stories though. Pity your able friends at 2nd tier schools never thought it necessary to apply at GW. Even stranger GW never approached them. Perhaps they were living too close by? As I said, some schools do not have to go to that extent, some have to. A win is a win, regardless of who you pay to play for you. This is a professional, or semi-professional era. Just do not expect to be honoured by those in the know for that win.
@meadows: it was 99 the imports all came from Grey College if I remember correctly. I have the upmost respect for House because of the way they quickly stopped the post matric imports…. it showed that they where more interested in upholding traditions and keeping a healthy relationship with their oldest rivals than winning!
@Deon Pitzer: ok, I’ll add to this discussion. Glenwood is 104 years old and considered a great South African school. They have played rugby for over 100 years and would be considered a traditional school. We were never consistently the best school in KZN, but I can certainly say we had some years to be very proud of. We are respected in KZN and certainly don’t need to beg or buy players in KZN to come there. I think we have 800 applications for grade 8 every year with only 250 places. Rugby boys are coming to us. Others schools maybe older but competitive rugby between schools only started properly in the 20’s so we have been there from the beginning. I have had numerous friends stuck in 2nd tier schools who would have made KZN schools if they had come to Glenwood. Jonas and MacMillan are great success stories and I’m sure if you asked them they are very happy they moved….
@Dixon’s: I can’t remember if it was ’98 or ’99 – somewhere around there. The return Hilton fixture was cancelled and it caused a fair amount of friction. I can’t recall how many post matrics were in that side but the bulk were funded by one old boy. There was an outcry from old boys and the exercise was not allowed to be repeated. A few years later MHS abandoned post matric altogether.
@GreenBlooded: Apologies, perhaps I wanted to say a lot but tried to be too concise and came across as if I am jumping on you! Cannot really say that I am against or for all of this. But to me there are at least two clearly distinguishable types of schools here. Those that do not need to approach players, players approach them, and if approved, these schools by way of eg bursaries. Then you have a second kind of school. Those that have to scout and approach schools and beg and pay kids to play for them. They buy bragging rights, convincing and bribing parents and kids to “pleaaase make our first team get to the top 10” . This is not illegal, and cannot and will not stopped, why should it? But those schools, win or lose, will always be frowned upon and laughed at.
Guys, if there is one thing that we need to clear up, and I have said this before, is that schools don’t recruit per se and they offer few if any rugby bursaries. Ambitious old boys, outside coaches and parents are responsible for both recruitment and funding via an OB trust or private capacity. Traditional bursaries are still available and the amount and size of those depend on the schools’ size and school fees, but are awarded across many sporting codes and for academics and culture.
What is true is that schools initially benefited from this, but turned a blind eye. Now many have been hijacked and become the vehicle to satisfy unfulfilled ambitions, misplaced pride, someone’s kleinpielie complex or inflated egos. Either way, they are not directly involved, but definitely not unaware and, if they were honest, uncomfortably joined at the hip.
@Deon Pitzer: I’ll say again – I don’t like it at all. I much prefered the days when I was at school where playing for your school’s 1st XV was an honour earned through hard work through the age-groups. All that has changed now – and not for the better IMO. Maybe Jonas wasn’t a good example then – I’m not from WC so don’t know the pedigree of all the schools so no offense meant to Swellendam. My point is still that there is some merit for the individual in being indentified removed from an environment where he would perhaps otherwise go unnoticed and develop that player into something special, even though the motives of the school involved may or may not be savory.
I was just putting it up for discussion so don’t jump on me.
@GreenBlooded: Swellendam plays CW in a good province, and don’t flatter yourself on Curtis Jonas. Stefan Terblanché went to that very same school. I have little against buying players or poaching or whatever, but I don’t like schools boasting about their sbr power when in fact they are playing mercenaries. This situation gives the idea that the boy is bigger than the school, otherwise the boy would have approached the school. as a matter of playing for honour in the first place, bursary in the second place. If Jonas had approached schools around the corner like the Paarl schools, I am sure he would have been well looked after as well. But then again, schools with enough prestige, and honourable tradition, do not have to beg and bribe to attract good material. If you are good enough, they will come, and then provide them with what they need. I am saying this in no way meaning GW is not such a school, please, don’t get that wrong.
@Zulu: No zulu, how many of the arguments on these blogs are about rankings and that filters through to the schools who when they are in the top use them as advertising. This has nothing to do with KES being in or out of the top 20. The rankings are placing pressure on the schools to perform and some are going to great lengths to get in or stay in the top 20 by turning a blind eye to steroids, overage etc. Gone are the days when it was about the boys now it’s about the schools, the old boys and the unions. Hope that is clear enough for you!
Sorry if this has been posted before – but a really good article:
http://m.iol.co.za/article/view/s/11/a/584160
@Zulu: Agree 100%. Anyone leaving primary school is fair game. He is free to go to any high school in any province. No foul there.
Although I am at odds with the ethics of poaching players from rival schools, there was a blogger who made a very important point the other day which got me thinking. What about a boy who has abundant talent but is sitting in a school that is not in the main stream. Curtis Jonas is a classic example – had Glenwood not recognised his talent and brought him in from Swellendam High School – he would probably have played in their 1st XV this year and never heard of again. Now he is in a Craven week team and likely to further himself after leaving school. I that a good thing or a bad thing? Interesting debate.
Being a Hilton old Boy I think the ownership of the MHS is different (I think MHS is owned by the Anglican Church) Hilton is owned by the Hilton Trust which is the old boys. Hilton offer plenty of Scholarships and bursaries to the extent that I wonder who is actually paying!! As the Old Boys effectively own the school and it is run as a NFP they dont have to answer to shareholders for a financial return so they can plough the cash back into the school.
@Anti Green: No they get poached by Westville ala Chad Le Clos
@Vin: what you mean to say is “Ban ranking systems when KES are out of the top 20”
@MikeSt: Sorry what seems to be the problem here? Primary school pupils are entitled to go to any High School of their choosing. If Dr EG Jansen was prepaired to match or better the offer then they may have gone their but they chose not to. Live with it!!
@Predator: Agreed, headmasters with huge ego’s and chips on their shoulders are the worst of this kind. I particularly dislike those who keep quiet in a bad PR malaise and put their heads in the sand. Don’t get me the wrong the job is a hard one, especially at a boys only school of over 1000 boys, but ethics and morals need to be upheld. The funniest thing for me at Glenwood this last weekend, all the ‘VIP’ old boys got a special area to sit on the stands, these are most likely the biggest contributors to the bursary funds. Like Roman kings they watch their ‘assets’ perform. I chuckled a little as a ‘nobody’ Old Boy sitting in the plebs section, even though I run a multi-million rand business. Some of these headmasters think they something special and that have the right to do and say what they like. Old Boys will start to look elsewhere if these sorts of dodgy practices keep on happening……I know of a GOB blogger on here who sends his son to another school for these reasons….
Recently it has been overage players, steroids and poaching that has everyone up in arms… but in the mid to late 90s it was post matrics that got everyone crazy!
@Predator: you got it spot on – I think the other thread re: Affies pulling the plug on Garsies will be a record blog for Beet and although I am not following it all I admire Dr Edward’s stance and guts. It takes a real tough head to stand up to all the various pressure groups and do the right thing.
@Grasshopper: Why was that did you guys start school early? I’m sure Dennis Baronet was a little vintage in Matric. Big game you guys have tomorrow. Monument is a good this year was impressed with them at the KERF. Game of the day
@Grasshopper: I think that the most powerful person in this chaos is the headmasters. Only they,….if they have any integrity,….can stop this rot. I lay a lot of the blame at their doors,..they have the final say what can or cannot happen at their schools. I have served on school boards for many years, the sport is part of the education system that is dictated by goverment and implimented by headmasters with the help and support of the governing bodies. There was a big debate elsewhere about Affies and Dr Edwards pulling the plug,…a good example where the buck stops at Affies and all the other schools in SA. To try and cover the rot with academic results has got absolutely nothing to do with whats wrong with SBR. I often attend games of schools that are nowhere near the superschool performance, hype and all the other things that are done for sponsor exposure. It really looks like the “not so prominent ” kids are enjoying and even laughing after a loss when they come of the field. They just enjoyed this wonderful game that is so part of our DNA it is scary at times. This to me is more important than all the other BS that is promoted all the time.
@Anti Green: Yep, I remember that well. We had 16 year olds playing 19 year olds…we got a nice hidings by House in the ‘post toastie’ years…..
Yeah, agreed this whole poaching, buying, kidnapping etc debate is old and boring now. Glenwood poach, Hilton poach, KES poach, Westville poach…..many schools do. The small privates don’t need to poach as much…..let’s move onto talking about tomorrow’s games now…I heard Monnas tried to poach Sean Erasmus too….
@meadows: Meadows I thing around 93/94 can’t remember,MHS pulled in about 5 Grey Bloem players. Herkie Kruger was one of them. They did post Matric so it was according to the system MHS had at the time(they weren’t poached but I’m sure they were bought) I think that led the charge for change.
@meadows: I still remember that 99 team with Herkie Kruger at 10…. lucky it was before the internet/blogs really got going, not a great memory for House fans! I remember them coming to Glenwood and giving us a big hiding… the House captain ( the lock if i remember correctly) got a red card and Glenwood still got outscrummed with a man up!
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@Roger: I’m unaware of anyone ever having been “poached” by MHS. That said the school, or perhaps better put the odd old boy, did not cover itself in glory towards the end of the post matric era.
@Grasshopper: I would be guessing if I said the figure was 60% of the boys….
@beet: Beet these articles on buying/poaching are getting tired now. Are there any articles about what the schools are going to do to stop it? Any articles on women’s rugby or how are they poached?
not all school’s buy (‘scuse the pun) into this crap. How about schools in Noordvaal such as St Davids, St Benedicts and St Albans or St Charles in KZN or Woodridge in PE or St Andrews in Bloem – and I am sure there are very many more examples. Rugby is just one sport offered at the school adn yet (unless someone can prove me wrong) I am sure they don’t battle in attracting applications?
I always think you learn a lot about a move by whether or not there was communication between the two schools beforehand.
This year in KZN a talented player moved from one high school to another. The school he wanted to move to was totally above board. They communicated with the boy’s current school and I think they even sent the parents back to current school to explain the situation and try to resolve their issues. This all happened before the transfer took place.
When a player disappears without a trace it’s usually a poach.
But I always say that if a responsible parent/guardian makes the decision, we can question the integrity of the poacher school but the decision has to be respected.
@beet: Spot on Beet. That is why there must be bursaries at glenwood. How else are we going to be able to school our kids
@Dixon’s: BUT, about 60% of the kids go to Glenwood though…
@Dixon’s: Thanks, thought the opposite gives the public the wrong impression.
@Anti Green: Glenwood Prep is in no way connected to Glenwood High. The school used to known as Parkview Primary, but changed its colours and name a few years ago to give the impression that they where asscoiated with Glenwood!
@Anti Green: Many go to Westville I believe, also DHS…..the Glenwood Prep headmaster is a DHS Old Boy so probably pushing the boys to go elsewhere….I could be wrong…
You can really tell a lot of people’s financial position by how much value they attach to their statements – 2c, 5c, 10c. Upcountry down to using s cents. Spear probably issues IOU’s with what he has to say
@Roger: I agree, blame me and Glenwood for the poaching plight we have now with all the schools in SA. I should partner with Speartackle so we have a presence in the Cape too. I could be up in Paarl & Stellies every weekend offering bursaries to other schools….
@MikeSt: Would be interesting to see how many kids from GW Prep are offered bursaries from and then go to other schools. If the % is high, then why have a feeder school. It would be less of a headache and cost you less. As you could use all the other schools as your feeder school. How many of the kids at GW Prep actually end up at GW?
I blame Glenwood and Grasshopper – all their fault
@Grasshopper: If i may contribute my s cents worth. My son went to a small nortern natal primary school. During nortern natal u/12 and u/13 trials he was in the “wrong school”. A certain Mr erasmus then offered him a bursary at glenwood for grade 8 which was fine for the lad untill he realised he had to board. He respectfully declined. A lot of the local education fraternity was a bit miffed with his decision but he decided to attend the local highschool. In grade 10 he again declined the oppertunity to play with leroux van zyl at DHS(his u14and u/15 flyhalf.) He now plays for the NWU Puk u/19B team and is currently invoved with their rugby institute.
The point i am trying to make at last is that bursarys in lower grades is fine to my mind as long as it is done openly and above board as in our case. The school can not be attacked because it is trying to improve its various sporting codes. I personally have a problem with importing soldiers in grade 11 and 12. Your coaching structures should pick up problem areas before grade 10 and rectify it then
Ps even northern natal schools is “poaching” in durban now !!
@Vleis: i think that the transition to professionalism in our rugby has been badly managed or perhaps not managed at all. We do not have a functioning intermediate level like College football in the US to channel progression to the NFL from the high school system where aspirant pros are able to develop further in a controlled environment while hopefully obtaining a useful College qualification.
Our youngsters are contracted straight into the pro set up from school with very little chance of completing a proper university degree to equip them for life as one of the 90+% that do not make it past the U21 stage. Varsity Cup is a wonderful afterthought, intended to play the College football role. albeit in parallel with the junior pro structures, but has evolved into pro 3rd team competition rather than a forum for genuine students to keep their rugby aspirations alive.
The proximity of pro rugby to high school rugby has resulted IMO in increased professionalism, with its good and bad characteristics, manifesting in the schoolboy game. The positives are things such as conditioning, analysis, facilities and coaching while the negatives are brought about by the increased pressure brought to bear on schools and kids, through greater exposure, resulting in increased poaching, steroid abuse, and educational compromises.
Sadly I think that the horse has bolted and it is only going to get worse because no-one has the will to do anything about it. In time, if they aren’t already, these issues will be seen at prep schools.
@Speartackle: As long as you conduct your operations according to GAPP!
@Speartackle: Now that’s a novel idea, can’t imagine how no-one has thought about that and that there aren’t people like that already. Now just imagine someone was doing that for no money or recognition.
@Speartackle: And you contact details, sorry not yours, RRPA are????
I think I should start a Recognised Registered Poaching Agency (RRPA) I’ll become a freelance poacher for any school/client. For a small commission I’ll get whoever the school/client needs and nobody can trace it back to the school. If school A wants an u/16 scrumhalf I’ll find him and from the commission I will then pay all his fees, expenses and even negotiate the parents’ expenses as well depending on the package paid by my client. Nobody can then point fingers at a school rather at RRPA.
@Vleis @ Sharkie
Vleis you are spot on.
PBHS had a very good side last year but in the previous three or four years the sides started the season slowly and then improved drastically in the second half of the season.
PBHS have had four first team coaches over the last 7/8 years and this is also a factor. Many teachers who were good rugby coaches have been lost to private schools and this has had the impact on the age group teams.
In terms of answering Sharkies questions – Demand for the school is still excellent. However, demand for boarding is not as strong as three/ four years back. I would put this down to the scholarships being offered by the likes of Jeppe, etc. I know of two boys who were about to board at Boys High but were lured to Jeppe on scholarships.
There is no doubt that the gap between schools who offer bursaries and those who don’t is getting wider and wider. PBHS will have to take drastic action to make sure rugby is put back on a par with some of the schools who are offering bursaries. Before Boys High rush out and give bursaries, they need to have a clear plan and I believe this is currently being put in place.
@meadows: I’m not sure, but it wouldn’t surprise me if they do not offer a significant number of bursaries. Bear in mind that they have world class rugby brands already, so they probably do not need to offer scholarships. Having said that, I definitely remember a furore a few years ago when GCB provided slips of paper to star performers at the GK u16 week, inviting them to attend GCB.
@Dixon’s: I agree with you 100%, old boy pressure, ranking system, sponsors and the falling away of the club system main reason for why we are here today.
@Dixon’s: I agree with you, this blog and others do fuel the fire, but we can’t stop freedom of speech though. There are headmasters on here for sure, they may even be blogging under Avatars we all know well. What would be great on a blog like this is to require your actual name and surname to post, then suddenly the trolls will disappear. All that is said here should be things we willing to tell the coaches and headmasters to their face.
@Roger: I think we need to keep dreaming unfortunately. I actually don’t mind weaker years, it makes the stronger years more sweet! Ranking systems have not helped either…
i honestly think that all of us on this blog are part of the problem… hear me out… we are all passionate about SBR and the schools we support… we fuel the fire!!!! in the last 10 years interest has exploded in SBR and in particular the 1st XV results. if there wasnt such massive interest in sport would the schools honestly spend such massive amounts of money on it. I will give everyone here credit in saying that most of us are against poaching and all the negative things that come with rugby success, but seriously guys it is here to stay and there is very little that any of us can do about it unless by some miracle someone from this blog becomes a headmaster of a major rugby playing school.
to add my 10 cents about a possible solution…. what about a rule that schools can only spend the same amount of money on sports bursaries that they spend for academic bursaries?
@Vleis: it would be interesting to know how many sports bursaries are awarded at other big rugby schools such as Grey College, Paul Roos and Paarl Boys for eg. I believe that it is very few if any but I may be wrong.
It seems to me that the bulk of the controversy is fueled by the actions of schools wanted to establish themselves as “rugby” schools.
@Predator: Totally agree with you. What for me has been the catalyst for all of this was the sudden big brand sponsorship of jersey’s etc about 10 years ago with Mr Price sponsoring a number of schools. Other big brands like Adidas, Puma etc joined the band wagon and now even telecoms for Boishaai. With this sponsorship comes probable winning clauses eg Puma, we will only supply X amount if the team wins 80% of it’s games, plays of TV 3 times and plays at 3 festivals. Sports brands only associate themselves with winners. Look how quickly the sports sponsors pulled the plug on Oscar and Tiger. So TV stations followed and now we have about 3 different franchises, Premier Schools, FNB Classic Clashes and others. It’s become a business where the pawns are the boys, who are not professional and still having to get an education. These kids are still kids and you see adult men treating them like heroes. Unfortunately certain festival contracts have been signed and sponsorship deals agreed so unless schools are prepared to default on agreements with the sponsors I don’t see it ending. Bishops claim no No’s on jersey’s and no sponsorship, but at the school all the signage is done by Vital Health, money there for sure. Spiraling from this is stupid schedules where schoolboys are playing 20 plus games in a season, more than some professional rugby players play and they getting well paid and their bodies are matured enough to. With this pressure comes in steroids, recruitment, promises, lies, deceit and everything against a schools ethos……it’s rotten at the core…
@sharkie: You already have a precedent in Pretoria Boys. I’m told that Boys High offer zero sport scholarships (there may be a single Jacques Kallis cricket scholarship). I think that their cricket, waterpolo, etc are still fine, but there is no doubt that their rugby has declined significantly in the past five years, especially the age group teams. In the five years from 2003 to 2008, Boys High 1st team beat Affies three times drew once and lost twice. In the five years since 2008, Boys high have lost seven times in a row to Affies and mostly by large score-lines.
I’m sure that there are still many boys applying to go to the great school, but I’m told that Boys High are finally going to start offering scholarships next year. If that isn’t an endorsement for offering scholarships then nothing is. Perhaps Tang could shed more light on the matter.
@GreenBlooded: you obviously joined the conversation late…nothing bad been said here mate. Just thinking what would be best for school boy rugby. Take a deep breath scroll to the top and read careful instead of going on the defensive after reading 3 or 4 comments. Read/take in/breath/comment.
@Grasshopper: I have absolutely no problem mate with it mate. It’s just sad to lose those boys.
@sharkie: A well known school in the Noordvaal was very competitive in all sport. Bursaries/ schoraships were stopped with a new headmadter. They are nowhere in sport anymore.
So success breads success and leads to that perception of a successfull school. This evil is here to stay unfortunately
@Vin: Strange how the reaction is totally different when one’s own school does it. Always a valid excuse or plausible explanation. Pot / Kettle stuff. Remember who the bad guys are in the main article in this thread.
And ban ranking systems!!!
I would love a school to set the precedent and offer no bursary for say a 5 year period and see if the demand for the school diminishes…i dont believe it would as there is in our country going to be a greater demand placed on education. Sad that it has got to this level
Or here’s a novel thought – cut it out altogether, develop your own talent and accept the good years and the bad – pipe dream?
This article is only the tip of the ” Rugby Berg ” . I don’t even think that a law against it will work. It all boils down to prestige and money for the top performing schools in SA and the spin offs ( sponsors ) they get from it. The schools are always in need of money for facilities, tours, and paying the extra educational personnel they employ to reduce the class sizes. This puts extra pressure on the schools ,….and believe it or not but good rugby results provide an easier path to approach sponsors , and lure the financially sound parents / business to sponsor the school. The pressure on the kids to perform is immense and often the academic time is “offered ” just to perform better in the rugby. ONLY the schools benefit not the kids. The carrot is always the exposure they provide and the platforms they create for their players to be seen and contracted. BELIEVE ME THAT ONLY A FEW KIDS MAKE IT TO THE UNIONS, what happens to the hundreds maybe thousands that sacrificed there academic future for school rugby. It is not about the kids , it is about the schools. The evil of the MONEY MAMMON and don’t forget the PRESTIGE has hit the top schools with ” force majeure”. Lets not forget the media influence and the marketing frenzy that accompany this phenomenon. I honestly believe that the gain for the few is not worth the pain for the masses. I love this sport , but it is spiraling out of control at this level.
I understand that a portion of the monies come from old boys etc but my take on it as an old boy myself is that i would prefer those monies to be used to give someone the chance at an education rather than a chance to play A team sport and then perhaps not go on after school. What would be interesting to see is the percentage of boys at school that were on bursaries that go on to play provincial level after school.
@Vin: yep, the result of a purely capitalist environment. The strong survive and the weak die, it’s cut throat. A degree of socialism would help. Maybe ‘weaker’ schools get bigger gov grants…
We run the risk of all our top rugby players landing up in the top 20 schools (some of them will land up playing 2nds and 3rds and won’t get the exposure) leaving everyone else to get thrashed by them. I say introduce a US American draft system letting the bottom schools get first choice at CW U13 and then work their way down from there. This would create an awesome and fair school boy rugby scenario. But we all know that this would never happen so let the strong get stronger and the mid to lower tier wither away.
@sharkie: You are 100% correct. Somewhere somebody has to pay for all the bursaries/ scholarships. There is nothing for nothing in life and very little for something.
If I give you a bursary, you must play rugby for me, if you don’t want to, I up the money to the point where you do want to. Most of the money however does not come from the school fees directly.
Old boys and trusts play a big part
@sharkie: Re subsidising the scholarship kids, I’d say that:
– at large traditional govt schools, it is largely the old boys** who subsidise the scholarship kids; and
– at private schools, it is a mixture of other parents and old boys** that subsidise the other kids. The older the private school (e.g. Hilton, St Andrew’s) the larger the old boy funding and the newer the private school the larger the parent funding.
** “old boys” includes current old boys, bequeathed amounts, bequeathed annuity scholarships, foundations, etc, etc.
Sorry this is not a dig at any school as it is happening across the board so no one school i believe is better or worse than anyone else
the crazy part for me is that schools are digging a whole for themselves as the whole bursary/scholarship is getting out of hand. If nothing was given out the boys would still have to go to school and so would support there school in the community or if they had the means would go private. Are we not ending up like english football where lets face it the palyers are getting paid absolute fortunes to play as a result of the bidding that has got out of control. What must also be remembered is that for the other 95% of parents whose kids are not on some form of bursary are subsidising these kids. So the more that is given out means the more that needs to be subsidised.
@Grasshopper: I didn’t have a go at GW at all just corrected Roger and filled him in where the boys were spotted and how many polo players have left KEPS/KES to go to GW.
@Grasshopper: Sure, but again not that many. Being good at sport as well as being strong enough to get an academic scholarship would certainly enhance the applicants chances.
@meadows: Yes, but you do give out bursaries for academics who are good at sport. I was one of those in the mix in 1991, unfortunately I did not get one though….
@Roger: Not sure what it is with you KES folk, why do you dislike us so much? We are of similar age, traditions and ethos. It just boggles the mind how a school can make judgements about another school based on hearsay, grapevines, bloggers, rival schools etc….maybe actually play against Glenwood and you’ll find out it’s a great school with similar traditions etc. My grandfather, who is a KES Old Boy, loves Glenwood as it reminds him of his days at KES….weird….
@Grasshopper: I don’t want to be pedantic but MHS award very few sports scholarships a year (it used to be two but this may have changed) and rugby has to compete with sports like cricket and hockey for these. There are of course partial support awards as well as the odd sponsor but the experience has shown that awarding scholarships to rugby players based on U13 CW performances is a lottery. Often these boys are simply early developers who are then outstripped by others through their teenage years.
@Roger: I think KES view is they haven’t done anything wrong so why issue a statement when it’s a storm in a teacup. SACS have over reacted and once again are SACS not in the wrong trying to ambush this boy from leaving by phoning both headmasters and asking them not to accept him?
@Vin: hmmm – KES given Glenwood the SACS treatment – take your invite to our tournament and shove it up your proverbial.
Amazing that they have their scouts up here for Polo and Rugby – KES better watch their top young cricketers and hockey players or they will soon be dissapearing too
@Grasshopper: I don’t disagree at all with you.
And yes dog eats do as you said. Things like this just make life for a small school 450 boys of which less than 150 are active sportsman so difficult as the pool of available boys is very small especially if you don’t have a boarding school.
@Grasshopper: Would be great if Glenwood took that money they spend on scholarships and pump it into their primary school using it to develop in house talent.
@Roger: The U13 boy was the Gauteng Captain and played for the U14’s. He was spotted at the Jeppe U14 tournament. Glenwood do not attend the KES water polo tournament and don’t think they will attend it – these 3 boys weren’t the first to be shipped off to Glenwood we’ve lost a total of 5 polo players in the last 4yrs.
@Vin: I wish KES would give their version of events on this – I was told they would?
@MikeSt: Well same can be said for boys going to UK private schools from SA, 6000 miles away. Distance is not the issue here, it’s so competitive between Westville, College, DHS, Northwood, Michaelhouse, Hilton & Kearsney at grade 8 level, that the privates get first pick and by then the cream has gone. To compete with the cream the Gov schools have to look far and wide. They first went to Northern Natal and now looking even further to the Eastern Cape, Western Cape and Pretoria. Life is hard and it’s a dog eat dog world out there. Rugby is a schools flagship sport and unfortunately many people judge how good a school is on their rugby results. Glenwood set this goal for themselves and have to try and bring in a great crop of grade 8’s every year…..I don’t agree with it but what else should they do….?
@Vin: hmmmm – were Glenwood invited to the KES waterpolo festival or did they spot these boys at the SACS festival I wonder?
i thought they were all KEPS boys?
@Grasshopper: The issue is not the bursaries at all as yes all schools do it including EG Jansen. But why oh why take boys from 600km away to your school.
Surely there is enough talent in KZN to recruit from?
And point is StMike has no leg to stand on here as these boys are primary school and are free to receive bursaries from any school they wish..
@Vin: Yes, but the 24 schools contract signed last year allows recruitment up to grade 10. I don’t like that but that is the ruling, so far as I am aware. I would prefer it to be grade 8 only…..
@Grasshopper: The SACS conversation has been exhausted but for the record I will state the following:
1. He was not approached by KES rather a Wits member who has nothing to
do with KES.
2. He was told to either apply to St Johns or KES
3. He is not on a scholarship, his school fees are paid out of his late
father’s trust.
4. His mother works in Gauteng.
@Vin: @Grasshopper: Also, the KES/SACS was a Union poach, not a school poach. The SACS boy could have chosen to go to KES or St John’s.
@Grasshopper: Very defensive, I’m not having a go I’m just stating that they weren’t all primary school boys.
@Vin: And your boy from SACS?
@Grasshopper: Last year was 1 grade 7 and 2 Grade 10’s from KEPS and KES. All water polo players.
@Roger: Again, what is the issue with recruitment at grade 8 level, all schools do it. Glenwood have been clever enough to look further afield than just KZN……
@MikeSt: three KEPS (King Edward Preparatory School) boys were taken from KEPS to Glenwood on full bursaries last year – all great sportsmen. Talk about common boundaries – the schools are on the same campus!! The Green Masjien obviously have their scouts at the KES festival every year too!
@Playa: Guys, what is the problem with offering bursaries at grade 8 level? Sorry, this is normal practice. Kids don’t belong to a province or school, their parents are obviously looking for the best for their kids. If I had been offered a Michaelhouse bursary in grade 8 I would have gone there instead of Glenwood no doubt, what is the difference now…
@MikeSt: Eish! More Dale Junior boys to end up at Glenwood
@MikeSt: At Primary school level it’s a known practice to ‘recruit’ boys and give out bursaries for high school. It’s being going on for over 50 years, what is different here? Westville give out 60 to 70 bursaries a year. It becomes a problem when the recruitment is done later on at high school. Boet, get with the times it’s tough and competitive out there between the schools, especially at grade 8 level….
HERE IS ONE FOR THE GLENWOOD BOYS.
We have just learnt from Concordia Primary School who for those that don’t know is the feeding school for Dr EG Jansen we actually share a boundary wall (thats how close they are) have had 6 1ST XV BOYS THAT HAVE BEEN SIGNED UP BY GLENWOOD IN DURBAN WITH FULL BURSARY PLUS FLIGHT TICKETS HOME etc etc.
And then people wanna talk about poaching, stealing or whatever.
THE WORST IS THE THE UNDER 13 CRAVEN WEEK IS HOSTED AT GLENWOOD JUST IMAGINE WHAT WILL BE HAPPENING THERE.
Soon…schools will stop attending festivals, then schools will refuse their boys from being considered for provincial representation…and and and!