@Tang (Comment #19)
Tang, I see where you’re coming from, but we must remember that the ultimate beneficiary is the boy. His affairs as a minor should be handled with due care and sensitivity. Although SBR is run like a professional sport by adults in charge, the players are just kids operating in (sometimes) very unforgiving environments. I fear that laying out the details for all to expose the adults in the room, could become a stick used to scold the children.
But yes, I hear you.
@Pamos (Comment #17)
Schools should be compelled to publish a register of acquisitions and losses. We should see school of origin, offer (value of the bursary) and school of destination. Festivals and publications should also be compelled to publish these details in team sheets. It should look like: Player 1 – School x (accepted full bursary in Grade 10) now at School y. If you could see this information, you can start to gauge how much influence acquisitions and losses have on results.
I understand Kingswood’s point and they are trying everything in their power to ensure that their first team is successful every year. Their lower age groups struggle year in and year out but their 1st XV can compete with the best of them.
But I can also tell you that Kingswood is not the only school approaching boys in grade 10, they are just approaching the teams they play against boys which is now a problem. Just like Durban schools raided EC, Kingswood has raided top Durban schools in the past few years. Garsfontein does it, Bishops have now started doing it too. I would love to see, like there was last year, a lie of the the big moves of students to other schools.
@Dion (Comment #14)
Frustrating cause I would really would love to see Kingswood play Queen’s at the Rec, can’t believe they don’t want to change this behavior, they will have to get used to some interhouse and internal fixtures I guess.
Surely the management of KC must now realise the problem is with them. ALL these other schools cant be ALL wrong. Do you think they will change their ways?
Couldn’t agree more they never play really tough opponents this year they play DHS /Northwood at festival time…they will be closely watched for sure…rest of there fixtures look so so 🏈🏈
@KES Oldboy (Comment #12)
sometimes moving from a JHB private, where you are a big fish in a small pond, to KES, where you may just crack the third team is too much for these fragile Gen Z egos
Oh – and just by the way, the said kid from the private school has not moved to KES and will not move. So I’ll have to go watch him playing in the “cake league”🤣.
@KES Oldboy (Comment #10)
Agree, it can be very difficult when trying to build a programme up. As many bloggers seem to agree – Grade 7 boys are fair game,but when your first team is struggling it can be hard to attract quality boys into that system. It means schools start going far and wide to find talent, and can then upset those schools in other. Also if they do find good players and develop them, and make a statement with a good u14A or u15A team, those star players then get targted by bigger schools and suddenly they lose them to the bigger schools. It is hard, but agree best to start at grassroots and build up. Takes time though and schools dont like to wait.
@Wyvern (Comment #6)
I am sympathetic to Kingswood to a degree. They are a small school with 280 boys. So they do need to bolster their rugby teams. But they should start in grade 8 and then maybe add a few at U16/7 level with boys that do not come from their “ecosystem”. I believe they recruited 2 Northcliff High School boys into grade 11 – no problem – different ecosystem……
@Skywalker (Comment #7)
You are 100% correct – it is a grey area. A friend of mine’s son is a good rugby player at a private school n Johannesburg which is frustrating him. I’ve “suggested” that he come to KES. And why wouldn’t I? He’s a great kid from a good family and is a good rugby player who is frustrated in his current environment. But then if he did then approach KES, they would be wrong to offer him any sort of “scholarship”. I have it on good authority that they would not. (And I’d be extremely disappointed if they did!)
Kingswood needs catch a wake up, what’s their plan? Only festivals will give them a good enough fixture list, local derbies besides K day look boring and small.
@KES Oldboy (Comment #2)
Agree with what you have said, but it does become blurry when you say “unless they approach you”. Unf. I believe that this can often be promoted by the school through sly conversations to parents on the sidelines or through other boys to inform targeted kids to apply. This way the schools can keep their hands clean and say “they approached us”, but in fact the trigger came from them to strongly hint that they would get a favourable response. Not saying its like this all the time at all. Sometimes it is initiated by the parents or boys themselves of course, but this does happen as well i believe.
Often at the u16 tournaments when boys are not with their schools but now mixed with the best in their age groups, and coaches from rival schools are coaching them now. I am sure a few conversations happen.
Either way, its impossible to tell a child where they can and cant go, so the reality is it does and will happen.
@Ystervark (Comment #4)
To be fair KC did also post their loss to Port Rex last year even though it was a 2nd/3rd team that played due to EP commitments. It was still considered as a 1st XV result and fixture.
Wow at this rate it’s going to be interhouse rugby and Kday on the annual fixture list!
I don’t know if this is true or not, but I was once told that of the applications KC gets for their scholarships etc., the school that had the highest number of applicants was Dale.
I don’t think it will be too long before schools who don’t have a dog in this fight pull out of their fixtures out of solidarity with others over these unethical practices.
What people also don’t know is that Kingswood emailed 2 rivals of relatively decent strength late in the week before the games to let them know that if a junior score gets to 50 points the game stops, yet they are very happy to give weak schools 70+ at 1st XV level and publish those scores.
@KES Oldboy (Comment #2)
2nd time Dale cancels this fixture.First in 2018 for the exact same reason.The issue was then resolved and the fixture resumed in 2023…now this again.KC is running out of friends fast.Tragic!
Now the Dalians are gonna miss out on that legendary derby day KC lunch
I’m not sure why it’s taken so long for schools to protest. I suppose when they had the post matric or bridging year, there was nothing anybody could do- the scholarship boys had matriculated & left their schools. But when that stopped 2 or 3 years ago, they had to start recruiting from other schools. There is nothing wrong with recruiting BUT it should e done in grade 7 for boys coming into grade 8. Those boys are fair game. But once boys are at a school they should be left alone unless they approach you & even then, there should be a discussion between headmasters as to why the child is leaving.
KC had this coming
@Wyvern (Comment #18)
Yes I can confirm that the rumour is factual. That is fantastic 👏
@KES Old Boy
But KES recruit at U15, U16 and U17 level don’t they?
@Tang (Comment #19)
Tang, I see where you’re coming from, but we must remember that the ultimate beneficiary is the boy. His affairs as a minor should be handled with due care and sensitivity. Although SBR is run like a professional sport by adults in charge, the players are just kids operating in (sometimes) very unforgiving environments. I fear that laying out the details for all to expose the adults in the room, could become a stick used to scold the children.
But yes, I hear you.
THERE SHOULD BE A PUBLIC REGISTER
Schools should be compelled to publish a register of acquisitions and losses. We should see school of origin, offer (value of the bursary) and school of destination. Festivals and publications should also be compelled to publish these details in team sheets. It should look like: Player 1 – School x (accepted full bursary in Grade 10) now at School y. If you could see this information, you can start to gauge how much influence acquisitions and losses have on results.
@RuggaFreak (Comment #16)
I heard a rumour that KC is playing a practice match against Queens at the Rec next wknd? Can you confirm?
I understand Kingswood’s point and they are trying everything in their power to ensure that their first team is successful every year. Their lower age groups struggle year in and year out but their 1st XV can compete with the best of them.
But I can also tell you that Kingswood is not the only school approaching boys in grade 10, they are just approaching the teams they play against boys which is now a problem. Just like Durban schools raided EC, Kingswood has raided top Durban schools in the past few years. Garsfontein does it, Bishops have now started doing it too. I would love to see, like there was last year, a lie of the the big moves of students to other schools.
@Dion (Comment #14)
Frustrating cause I would really would love to see Kingswood play Queen’s at the Rec, can’t believe they don’t want to change this behavior, they will have to get used to some interhouse and internal fixtures I guess.
LOTS OF INTERHOUSE RUGBY AT KINGSWOOD
RUGGAFREAK
@KES Oldboy (Comment #12)
sometimes moving from a JHB private, where you are a big fish in a small pond, to KES, where you may just crack the third team is too much for these fragile Gen Z egos
but pray tell – what is a cake league?
Oh – and just by the way, the said kid from the private school has not moved to KES and will not move. So I’ll have to go watch him playing in the “cake league”🤣.
@KES Oldboy (Comment #10)
Agree, it can be very difficult when trying to build a programme up. As many bloggers seem to agree – Grade 7 boys are fair game,but when your first team is struggling it can be hard to attract quality boys into that system. It means schools start going far and wide to find talent, and can then upset those schools in other. Also if they do find good players and develop them, and make a statement with a good u14A or u15A team, those star players then get targted by bigger schools and suddenly they lose them to the bigger schools. It is hard, but agree best to start at grassroots and build up. Takes time though and schools dont like to wait.
@Wyvern (Comment #6)
I am sympathetic to Kingswood to a degree. They are a small school with 280 boys. So they do need to bolster their rugby teams. But they should start in grade 8 and then maybe add a few at U16/7 level with boys that do not come from their “ecosystem”. I believe they recruited 2 Northcliff High School boys into grade 11 – no problem – different ecosystem……
@Skywalker (Comment #7)
You are 100% correct – it is a grey area. A friend of mine’s son is a good rugby player at a private school n Johannesburg which is frustrating him. I’ve “suggested” that he come to KES. And why wouldn’t I? He’s a great kid from a good family and is a good rugby player who is frustrated in his current environment. But then if he did then approach KES, they would be wrong to offer him any sort of “scholarship”. I have it on good authority that they would not. (And I’d be extremely disappointed if they did!)
Kingswood needs catch a wake up, what’s their plan? Only festivals will give them a good enough fixture list, local derbies besides K day look boring and small.
@KES Oldboy (Comment #2)
Agree with what you have said, but it does become blurry when you say “unless they approach you”. Unf. I believe that this can often be promoted by the school through sly conversations to parents on the sidelines or through other boys to inform targeted kids to apply. This way the schools can keep their hands clean and say “they approached us”, but in fact the trigger came from them to strongly hint that they would get a favourable response. Not saying its like this all the time at all. Sometimes it is initiated by the parents or boys themselves of course, but this does happen as well i believe.
Often at the u16 tournaments when boys are not with their schools but now mixed with the best in their age groups, and coaches from rival schools are coaching them now. I am sure a few conversations happen.
Either way, its impossible to tell a child where they can and cant go, so the reality is it does and will happen.
@Ystervark (Comment #4)
To be fair KC did also post their loss to Port Rex last year even though it was a 2nd/3rd team that played due to EP commitments. It was still considered as a 1st XV result and fixture.
Wow at this rate it’s going to be interhouse rugby and Kday on the annual fixture list!
I don’t know if this is true or not, but I was once told that of the applications KC gets for their scholarships etc., the school that had the highest number of applicants was Dale.
Chickens coming home to roost!!!
I don’t think it will be too long before schools who don’t have a dog in this fight pull out of their fixtures out of solidarity with others over these unethical practices.
What people also don’t know is that Kingswood emailed 2 rivals of relatively decent strength late in the week before the games to let them know that if a junior score gets to 50 points the game stops, yet they are very happy to give weak schools 70+ at 1st XV level and publish those scores.
@KES Oldboy (Comment #2)
2nd time Dale cancels this fixture.First in 2018 for the exact same reason.The issue was then resolved and the fixture resumed in 2023…now this again.KC is running out of friends fast.Tragic!
Now the Dalians are gonna miss out on that legendary derby day KC lunch
I’m not sure why it’s taken so long for schools to protest. I suppose when they had the post matric or bridging year, there was nothing anybody could do- the scholarship boys had matriculated & left their schools. But when that stopped 2 or 3 years ago, they had to start recruiting from other schools. There is nothing wrong with recruiting BUT it should e done in grade 7 for boys coming into grade 8. Those boys are fair game. But once boys are at a school they should be left alone unless they approach you & even then, there should be a discussion between headmasters as to why the child is leaving.
POWER OF MONEY
Money dont always buys friends.