By Grasshopper
Having worked in business for 15 years I have realised that the best kind of PR is that done by others not associated with your brand and advocate customers. In relation to schools this would be parents, kids and Old Boys of other schools and the schools own fraternity.
With the advent of Social Media schools have started to do quite a bit of their own PR via Twitter and Facebook, some even creating business Linkedin profiles. With the huge amount of professionalism in school sport and the large amounts of revenue being handled by schools, they have had to treat them as businesses. However, each school has decided either to embrace technology and social PR or to avoid it.
Glenwood as an example have Facebook and Twitter profiles but do not actively use them. I believe this was due to internet trolls and Old Boys of other schools posting some inappropriate comments. This is the policy taken by Trevor Kershaw and could be seen as protecting the school’s brand and getting involved with social media debates etc.
On the other hand schools like KES, Affies and Westville are extremely active, probably with a social media strategist working on their accounts full time and trying to get the school brands out there and building large amounts of followers.
There are other school communication systems like D6 Communicator, but this is more for internal usage. It seems there is almost an arms race between schools to get the most followers, tweets, likes and mentions. There are conflicting opinions in the digital brand sector, something that I am involved with in my job, as to whether tweeting non stop builds a brand or de-sensitisers users to the brand.
I follow KES as an example and they tweet absolutely every result, anything associated with KES and continually use differing ‘red’ hashtags to get the news out about how great KES is. They loop in their most famous old boys in Brian Habana and Graeme Smith, to then retweet this to all their follows.
Chad Le Clos for Westville is another. Some might say good on them, but as a neutral follower it can become extremely irritating when you have to sift through all the tweets to find the good stuff. Examples of KES tweets #redpower #redtilidie #redready #red….anything to do with red. Sometimes quality is better than quantity.
I personally feel Glenwood is missing a trick by avoiding social media completely. In the right hands and with school tweeting policies in place, maybe with a dedicated person responsible for tweeting and re-tweeting it can be an extremely good tool to communicate with your fans, parents and potential parents. It can build the brand and create groups within the school eg Old Boys groups, certain year groups etc. From there money from Old Boys etc can be built up.
That said, let’s look at the different schools in KZN and a few country-wide to see how active they are. Westville are well known for the prowess in writing very biased post match articles, but having said that these are probably written by very excited kids.
At 2pm on 12/08/2013 – Main school handle figures only
| # | School | No of Handles | No of Followers | No of tweets | Tweets per Follower |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | DHS | 2 | 1221 | 990 | 0.81 |
| 2 | Westville | 2 | 1962 | 1094 | 0.56 |
| 3 | Glenwood | 2 | 961 | 479 | 0.50 |
| 4 | Maritzburg College | 2 | 2921 | 2603 | 0.89 |
| 5 | Northwood | 2 | 559 | 224 | 0.40 |
| 6 | Kearsney | 3 | 1194 | 1622 | 1.36 |
| 7 | Michaelhouse | 1 | 1079 | 2162 | 2.00 |
| 8 | Hilton | 1 | 1363 | 791 | 0.58 |
| 9 | KES | 2 | 3243 | 11140 | 3.44 |
| 10 | Affies | 2 | 3060 | 2520 | 0.82 |
| 11 | Grey Bloem | 1 | 5497 | 2988 | 0.54 |
| 12 | Paarl Boys | 1 | 1901 | 1469 | 0.77 |
One can see from the above that KES is extremely active on Twitter, with 8,152 more tweets than the next highest school. Maybe KES are ahead of the game or are just plain irritating, personal opinion probably. OR KZN schools need to catch up. I did notice about a year ago a competition between Hilton and Michaelhouse to get to the 1000 followers mark, which I think Hilton won. However, since then they have not increased that much. Putting this into perspective, these are actually very small numbers when comparing to celebrities and big brands.
Food for thought! I must eat my hat though on this as I thought that Westville tweeted quite a bit but with a ratio of 0.55 they are pretty average Twitter users, apologies Westville OB’s.
@Gungets Tuft: yeah, but it will take time, something I don’t have that much of…,although I’m on here quite a bit. Seems I’m topping the bloggers log….eish!
@Grasshopper: Naaaa, WBHS is not the Beast. I think ou WBHS has a little split personality issue but it’s not Beast. There seriously are 2 people that cannae like Glenwood.
You specialise in dissecting information and stuff, it’s not THAT hard to work it out …. 8) id=Sherlock
@Gungets Tuft: Agreed on your analysis, would do that but we charge for that sort of thing. I did the obviously easy analysis just to start off some debate as us souties went into hibernation. I needed to bring the boys out, however all it did was poke a stick at the Beast……sorry WBHS Griffon
And one more thing about statistics … listen to what Ted (Talks) has to say
http://www.ted.com/talks/lies_damned_lies_and_statistics_about_tedtalks.html
I think that Benjamin Disraeli and Mark Twain had it right when it came to this sort of analysis. Disraeli said “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics.”
Mark Twain added to that with ‘Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force:”
So, while I do not doubt Grassy’s numbers above, I think the summary masks the truth. There are different kinds of tweets. I am not sure how many categories to divide into, but how about
Results (pure, simple – “KES vs St Johns 1st Team – 53-22)
Information (#REDDramatics Evening (Tuesday 13 August)
Geesbou (#Comesupportplease! Atheletics Championships Day Three … (etc).
Cheerleading (“@BryanHaban: What a great feeling to find out you’ve been included …(etc) #Alwaysspecial #honour #springbokpride #RED)
That would give a bit more information on the motive/intent behind the tweets and make a bit more sense of it. Divide the tweet numbers into those sorts of categories and you get a better idea. Sometimes I think that it is aimed at an internal audience, so if you are evesdropping then you can hardly complain about what you hear …
It’s why I stopped following KES after all their lightning struck boys were safe and on the mend, I didn’t need to hear the rest, and could always search for tweets on their “handle” (as I did for the info above) if I wish.
Grassy – put one of your slaves onto it, it might fill out your article a little. You do that, I will do one on how to avoid being ripped off by towing operators ..
PS – College have 3 handles, @MaritzCollege, @MCFoundation1 and @MCOBA1897.
@Grasshopper: I am not sure that Westville have more starters back than Glenwood. From the 1st and 2nd teams I think there are about 10 in total so if you look at a squad of 22 more than half will have to come from this years 3rds/4ths and U16s. The big question is whether the team gels from early on. They have the talent but you never know. That’s what makes SBR so interesting.
@Rhino: well 11 yes but not all starters, Westville have more I think. Glenwood have s nice spine of players back but look to be weak at lock. 2014 will be very interesting….
@griffon, calm down boet. I work in digital media and especially the measurement of it. It was just an observation. My perception was that Westville tweeted a lot but I was proven wrong by the facts to which I apologized. But my perception of KES was correct, over 11k tweets is crazy. You need to take the emotion out of it. I never once defamed or bad mouthed Westville, read it again. Westville rightly use Chad for promotion, who wouldn’t. Same as KES with Smith and Habana. There are hundreds of other examples of this, those were just the two that came to mind. Just take a chill pill and write a post that doesn’t involve bashing Glenwood or praising Westville. What do you think of DHS’s improvement in the lower age groups? Or Northwoods recruitment drive?
@Beet
Apologies accepted…………lol…………….none needed actually. im laughing..
@WBHS Griffon:
What about the last sentence:
“Food for thought! I must eat my hat though on this as I thought that Westville tweeted quite a bit but with a ratio of 0.55 they are pretty average Twitter users, apologies Westville OB’s”.
To be honest I think it’s a very interesting and unique blog with KES if anyone being a bit hard done by it. But the stats don’t lie.
It would have been nice to see these stats above wrapped in time frame, like say the last 6 months, so we could see tweets per day.
@ WBHS Griffon
Hey guv.. where are you anyhow? i figured u still in durbs ? have u worked out who i am?
As indicated in my first blog related to this post , this type of subtle attack on the achievements of WBHS and Chad Le Clos by weaving in a few stats around social media are what will only further heighten the current animosity between the two schools and hence the hand bags flying thereafter. I recommend this post be removed.
The intention of this post by Grasshopper was not to facilitate banter / blogging and constructive argument, but, was rather a subtle, clever attempt to defame Westville and a cheap shot that should never have been allowed to have been posted on this site.
Again, well done Grasshopper, you’ve achieved your goal of agitating all the Westville supporters.
@Gungets
not sure now actually………..
@Rhino: Isn’t that what he said, or was it someone else?
@ Gungets …………. is WBHS in london? i thought back in the mother land actually ?
Defo can feel winter having a claw………… not in the day but the nights are drawing in again :-(
ah well. all good anyhow.
@ Grassy
hmmm.. i see…………. sounds like u must be in for a big shout if you have 11 back !!!!
I hope we do well , obviously. i will try make it back for a couple games next year so ill keep u posted..!
Ah, perhaps give ou Jordaan a break hey. Summer heat daarso is just making him homesick, so he is lashing out. Be cooling off soon, he will calm down. Probably the same for WBHS, hot daarso in the UK. Not like Durbs but still
@Rhino: I think Westville are set very well so probably front runners, Glenwood have 11 from the squad returning so should be up there, College will be powerful too. Kearsney might struggle in a rebuilding year. The others are a mystery, just depends on who they can bring in. The usual suspects really. Hilton are dark horses again….
@Grasshopper
I thought it was from Jordaan initially as said ill have ure mother and sister too but that post is gone now anyhow and yep defo uncalled for by anyone to say such kuk huh.
anyhow sticks and stones…lol
So anyhow – whats the word on the street back in Natal for next year …as in whom do you think will be front runners? I have no clue really other than what i see you guys post of the returners for next years 1sts etc so wondering how GW, us, college, house, hilton , kearsney etc are deemed to be next year..on paper anyhow ?
@Rhino: griffon did start it by saying he would have my mother, not sure a 63 year old is that attractive, but hey he stooped to that level which I won’t do…
@beet
Where is this post gone that this disgrace of man Jordaan put on about “having my mother and sister” ? eish…
@Jordaan… you know im not even gonna rise to your bait or stoop to your levels so seriously jog on boet.
Have some respect you twit.
@All Black Agreed. Just spotted now and removed. Thanks for the concern
@Jordaan: yes Jordaan, matriculated 1996 so that makes me a kid, not!
Is Jordaan even a Glenwood fan? Sounds like he’s out to damage their image terribly for those who read this.
Obviously he won’t succeed due to a great image which is portrayed by GWD but c’mon boys, get over it.
Hi Beet. Perhaps comments like ‘I will have your mother as well’ can be construed as derogatory and not in line with what you are trying to achieve on this site? It appears that there are a few less than friendly people who have decided to vent their obvious lack of morals in real life by resorting to defamation on via the internet. Brave men I am sure.
@Grasshopper: You are the one letting Glenwood, GreenMom aqnd the rest of the true Glenwood supporters down with kak like this. That’s the trouble with you younger Glenwood Old Boys is you behave like a bunch of kids!
@Grasshopper: Why not just be direct about what you are trying to imply here like a true no nonsense Glenwood supporter.
All us of us hate Westville, so stop sitting on the fence and pretending to respect WBHS when their is so much tension between the schools.
Long live the mighty Green Machine, Erasmus (proper non-soutie name) and how we dominate the Schools selections.
GO GLENWOOD!
@BOG: Eesch, we will make ou Beet miserable, it’s hard enough keeping a school rugby blog alive without us starting to pull a “John the Baptist” stunt. Already some regulars have gone quiet – telling it like it is, some don’t want to be confused with other bloggers who can’t keep it tidy esor …
Next year, not sure. Last time we played, 2008, it was in Bloem, so perhaps you need to travel to the Hollow. It all depends, naturally, on the cramped weekend structure available, or it will be third term when most of the locals have turned their balls round
@Gungets Tuft: Well, for good balance in the tank, perhaps I should sink down with you- after this weekend when GCB will be up against PRG- in the mud bath of Stellenbosch. A good time to re-emerge , would be just before the anticipated clash next year. Will it be in PMB or Bloem?
@Gungets Tuft: Burst out laughing when I read your comment, hilarious! So true, the internet has allowed everyone to have an opinion and be there own editors, it’s opened up a can or worms for sure. You will always get trolls like Beast, Griffon, Jordaan etc stirring up things, but sometimes that is the whole fun of it. As long as people can keep their identity private from those trolls it’s pretty safe…
@Djou: No, you just need to ensure the schools marketing person or headmaster is responsible for the account. Never have more than one person responsible for logging in and replying. A response policy needs to be adhered too and never re-tweet a story not read thoroughly as you can be held responsible for slander etc. Sticking to pure facts and not tweeting emotion is key. All this building hype that some schools too is where the danger lies when drunk old boys start to make crude comments and copy in the schools handle.
@BOG: Naaa, you don’t divorce after a knee-trembler, which is what ou WBHS and Jordaan seem to have reduced this discussion to. You just decide which way to run …
That’s the problem with the internet, very few ways to prevent the terminally stupid from voicing an opinion. Can’t see how Twitter could possibly harm a brand more than Jordaan and WBHS have with their last exchange.
I once heard the internet described as a large sewage tank, where the big chunks float to the top. Makes me very worried that my name features in the top-10 on this blog – I reckon a sabbatical is called for, sink a little lower esor.
Article just out on dangers of social media for institutions. Institutions need to police continuously due to hacking and ugly comments. It means more IT-personnel at schools, which in turn will increase school fees. No such thing as a free lunch.
@Grasshopper: Very informative article, the value of advertizing in general and social media as a marketing tool in particular, is often underestimated. For the record, Boland Landbou only went live this year (March), made 217 tweets (99% score updates, team sheets, results) and has 411 followers to date. Their Facebook account seems more active and informative though, while their web page is adequate, though a bit dated.
@PaarlBok: Yep, love that policy, Should be the policy at all schools
@Grasshopper: Thanks, its interesting stats, may sound a bit silly but its very important PR info. Myself find one of the best head masters qoutes on vleisboek from Wynberg. One every parents should frame in his head. https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1332_620768611286935_440218360_n.jpg
Interesting too is the Paarl Gim Old Boys handle has 480 followers with 285 tweets, so Old Boys definitely like to shout more about the achievements of their alma mater. I kind of think this will be the case for most schools as sometimes it’s old boys living out their lack of sporting success at school through either their kids at the school or just being associated with the great results of the school. I for one was a very average 1st and mostly 2nd team player, you’ll find guys who played 2nd’s and 3rd’s who didn’t quite get the 1st team glory are probably some of the most vocal old boys and those that did don’t really care as they have had their glory days already…..just an opinion, don’t shoot me Griffon…
@PaarlBok: I can add if you wish, just picked a couple from around SA to compare to the KZN schools. Interesting though Paarl Gim has 2 handles, the main school one has 1,172 followers and only tweeted 19 times, shows they do their talking on the field ;-)
@BOG: Hahahahaha!Its all fun and games until the adulterous affairs begin.
Paarl Gym dont make the list?
@Jordaan: Boet, you letting us Glenwood bloggers down, idiotic responses like that are not really in the good spirit of this blog. Don’t go down to Griffon’s level…just a suggestion as it gives him more ammo to attack Glenwood…
I have to agree with Queenian- kiss and make up. This almost sounds like a dirty divorce hearing with all the dirty washing being hanged out for all to see. Only outstanding bit, is the “adulterous affairs” to come still. Klapping each other with a handbag occasionally is one thing, but attacking the in-laws(schools) is altogether another matter.
@Rhino: hahaha, forget about Jordaan and Greenmom, we all have our gems. Seems WBHS Griffon is yours. I do respect you, Westers, Star and Amelikte from Westville, would be good to meet up with guys on Bowdens and then Waxies when you play KES at home finally. I bet I already know a couple of you…
@WBHS Griffon: Boring, the same old stuff comes out of you…..it’s like a broken record. You love to mention George Campbell as it’s the only string in your bow. I believe we are 19th in most rankings, which are still very subjective by the way even if they say they are applying statistics. There is never a perfect system as you cannot predict sport or rank passion etc. A derby for example could produce an upset or a more hungry team vs a complacent one could win eg Glenwood vs George Campbell, KES vs Trinityhouse and Westville vs Pioneer. We have actually beaten Grey Bloem, Affies x2, Boland Landbou x2, Waterkloof, Monnas, Paarl Boys, Paul Roos x 2, Noord Kaap, Outeniqua x 2 in the past few years, something Westville cannot claim. When you have a proper hard schedule like Glenwood does playing 20 to 23 games in a season coping with injuries etc and playing 7 of the top 20 then you can speak, until then enjoy beating local sides like Port Natal etc. You only improve if you test yourselves, something Westville only did at Kearsneyw where they have found out what it’s like playing the big boys like Paarl Gim, Outeniqua and Grey Bloem. Looking forward to playing Westville next year as they have already written Glenwood off….
@Grasshopper: “Not nearly as daunting as playing Grey Bloem and Affies?” Where you ranked in the top 50 this year?? Last time I checked at least 10 places behind Kearasney and Westville – no wonder you declined to play Westville this year, you probably would have got given 50 like College got on Goldstones!
Talk about “blowing your own horn”, why don’t you focus on beating George Campbell first before you start mentioning the likes of Grey Bloem and Affies??
Oh and by the way, I’ll have your mother too!
@Rhino: haha, I’m sure Glenwood don’t mind playing at Westville, it’s not nearly as daunting as playing away at Affies or Grey Bloem. In fact it’s like playing at home Westville is so close to Glenwood. Bowdens does not have that closed in atmosphere that Dixons has with the main building.
Sure Grassy is just pull your peoples chain
Come boys stop the fighting its getting a bit old.
Maybe we should organize a bar brawl or something.
@Grasshopper
I would defo have a beer with you and im sure we would laugh and all..i know mike v and all quite well….
But prey tell………. what would your attack be on WBHS be if you really could unleash what you said you could and feel?
haha. its interesting as you kinda suggesting you do have other feelings or anti wbhs feelings which means you not being true. im just curious.
i dont… i see GW as a rival and thats it. i dont think twice after….
I find you guys( not all ) quite irritating at times but then again you do find us the same too. thats cool. but its just the continuous bleats or comments in which you somehow add us into thats so boring and annoying, of course. :-)
you do have some real gems too… aka the bad boy Jordaan and greenmom etc… i laugh though.
So……. where we playing you next year… heres a can of worms… u will say at Glenwood.. but i will say NO WAYS.. you forfeited playing us this year ( you chose to decline not us ) so it should be at Westville… haha.. what say you……
@Jordaan
Embarrassing…. you know you can use spellcheck if you are struggling with English ?!!!!
Or have u had 20 to many brandys? lol
@Jordaan
What a chop!!!!
@Grasshopper: Love you sticking it to these Westville guys on this post, very well written in a nice subtle way.
Bottom line is they don’t deserve to be blogging with the “old 5” elite group, I wish we didn’t have to have Westville bloggers on this site, they are nothing but a nuisance to us Glenwood supporters.
Goed gedoen, Go Green!
@Grasshopper: can you do a similar exercise for ” please call me’s”?
@WBHS Griffon: please state exactly where in this piece I ‘attack’ Westville. If you want a proper attack I can write one but that is against Beet and this blogs ethos. Beet would never have posted it if he thought it was a low blow, crass or an attack. Oh yes, I did live in Westville for 12 years and my parents live in Village Green in Dunbar Rd, can’t get closer than that. I know Mike Vowles, Andrew Stewart and a few other past and present teachers very well. Anyway, no point in arguing with a kid with blinkers on. Please do write your article on the decline of Glenwood, would love to read it…
@Grasshopper: As per Rhino’s blog “Why”, we are all so sick and tired of your direct attacks and blatant jealousy towards Westville and your pathetic attempts to mask them by stating the you lived in Westville, have mates from Westville, respect the school, your Dad went to DHS etc – nobody cares boet and we don’t believe you for one second.
We all realize that your school has made great advances in the last 10 years and you should be commended for that, but, unfortunately you’ve been eclipsed by Westville’s advancement over the last 10 years in becoming a better all round school – you don’t have to say it cause we all know it boils your blood.
We realize you are up to speed with your stats and history etc, but, all respect has been lost with a post like this. Could you imagine if I wrote a blog about the deteriorating area around Glenwood High School, the fact that you poach all your players from Port Natal and other Afrikaans schools, called the school “Scumbilo” and the fact that Kelvin has been known to copy a lot of what Hall does instead of innovating, there would be an outrage!
Disappointing, you’ve sunk to an all time low and probably lost a lot of respect from bloggers with a low blow like this, but, you’ve no doubt achieved what you set out to do by annoying the Westville bloggers. You guys rally around your mates and carry on on this one, these comments are not worth the key strokes.
Sorry should have read; “liked” and “now has”
Geez. When I met my wife, she got an instant family of men. She linked her pink wall colour in her flat and know has, three boys and a dog named Eddie. No wonder she goes shopping on her own! Just boys my side. Three brothers too…must be in the genes!
@Grasshopper: Friend mine’s daughter is at Stella, moved gtom DGC. Is about to be the head hockey coach there, played over 30 tests for SA herself, and she thinks Stella is the best. My SIL is on staff at Umhlali – will ask her about the North Coast schools.
@Gungets Tuft: Yep, been told by my mother who is the headmistress at another private co-ed school that Marist Stella is doing some good things. Does anyone know much about Umhlanga College, Ashton and Trinityhouse. Seems the only options up the north coast…
@Grasshopper: Eeisch. A lovely young girl, my daughters best friend, left Danville for DGC and had a miserable 2 years. Developed eating disorders and other issues that only cleared up after she matriculated. Other girls do fantastically well. DGC is for extrovert high achievers. Choose carefully, Durban has some great girls schools.
@Gungets Tuft: I know the feeling, the wife says it’s either Durban Girls College if we live in Durbs or Herschel if we live in Cape Town, both 7k per month schools, may the saving begin now! Unit trusts are my friend…
@Redblack White: On football, Glenwood produced two decent players in recent history, Dylan Sheppard and Ryan Botha, both great players who should have made it bigger in Europe…Dylan played 2nd team rugby flyhalf at school and Ryan too…
@star: I can only assume that the mommies see how badly their husbands have turned out and see the need to change. There is no foolproof system …
And, sometimes, it is just a case of wanting to show how well they are doing. I know of at least a couple of DPHS folk from my son’s year that were quite transparently on that horse. That at least one poor bugger is being forced to delay his retirement by 10 years on the “fly now, pay later” scheme is by-the-way, his mommy was not going to concede an inch, the neighbours are definitely watching ….
@Star – good comment – I think particularly in Westville you guys are nicely parked between the two best IMO – Highbury and DPHS – i.e if you can convince the Highbury kids to go public. But true, often see these youngsters at the High school games, would be just as awesome to see the senior teams reciprocate.
Here in PMB I know that Merchiston have an annual tag rugby festival and that Colllege normally have a representitive team of Merchie old boys, so it does have major impact.
On the subject of your “village” school – how come you guys don’t make more noise about some of your soccer playing old boys – yes I know that this is a rugby blog – how about a shout out for Rheece Evans, playing right here in sleepy hollow for Maritzburg United – great guy too!
@Gungets Tuft: Digital is not measured by SAARF though, it’s by Effective Measure, a global digital web analytics and audience measurement product.
@star: Agreed, breeding loyalty to the high school from young is key. DHS are doing that now with DPHS so your conveyor belt of sport talent from there might dry up soon. Obviously you still have the Westville, Pinetown and Highway schools to draw on. I like the idea of the whole 1st team rugby at high school watching the feeder schools 1st teams and maybe even handing out the jersey’s, chatting with the lighties and telling them how they made it through the ranks. Very good policy….breeds trust and affiliation….like it!
@HORSEFLY NO.1: I hope we cross paths in the near future so we can swat the fly
@Playa and co
Well we are very happy to get some of those boys…especially since the Dale Junior team is so good this year.
@ Gungets- you have got me all confused.
But surely any marketing strategy must be focused on the key decision maker( the wife) rather than the perceived primary stakeholder( the old boy). If those 18 College old boys were really honest they would have admitted it was the wife who was pushing the issue of ” lower government school standards” And how many of us want to go toe to toe with the ” boss”. Surely though in the end there is only one matric certificate and no comments column.
I also think it is really important to look after your feeder school structures. Get the 1st team boys to watch some of the primary school matches. It is amazing what impression that makes on the lighties. I was happy to note that of the Westville golf team that won the KZN champs at least half are from WSPS. If I look at the 2 CW players , McHardy is from WSPS and Majola from Pitlochry. The Academy player Martin has been brought up in Westville. We have been accused of being a “village” school but maybe that will end up being Westville’s core strength.
@Djou: Haha, ja, not “you guys”, I took a short sprint to freedom from Cubicle World about 10 years ago. Got me a tow-truck and the rest is history. Back then they were talking LSM. I see there is a new way of measruing (Saarf) .. which I will have to get a smattering of knowledge about or I will never stun and amaze my mates again. Thanks for the info, or as they say down at my local, “Saarf my mate” {snigger} 8)
@Djou: yep, we don’t use LSM but AMPS does for offline, SE we try and match our demographics to AMPS. We prefer actual figures vs weighted figures…digital is far easier to measure actual usage…
@Gungets Tuft: Hope you guys know how to clean the LSM numbers in order to make them usable. Nowadays there is a strong move away from LSM groups – because eg. a low income family may have lots of assets (TV, car, RDP house etc.) skewing the groups by classifying the low income into higher LSM groups. Nowadays the move is away from LSM’s into other groups.
@Gungets Tuft: Yep, what we do is track online usage and then integrate our demographic data into Telmar, which is the tool that media agencies use to decide on where to place ads. It’s based on SAARF AMPS data, will need a few hours to chat about that. Agreed on the 50% sportsman thing hence why I feel the disadvantage in numbers is less significant between govs and privates than one thinks. At Glenwood 600 sporting boys vs 400 sporting boys at Kearsney is far closer than 1250 boys in total vs 550. Also, the privates get the cream of the crop whilst the gov’s have to work with what they get once the top kids have taken the private’s bursaries…..hence, especially at A team level the schools are pretty even..
@Grasshopper: Not only that, but the Govt dropping the “in area” rule for schools which means kids can be bused in from anywhere. Ignoring al lthe other implications of that, the biggest is that they become ghost kids. The arrive at 7.25am and leave at 2:45pm. They usually have a 1 hour bus ride home so haven’t the opportunity to take part in sport for the school or support other extra-curricular activities. In my experience it is pulling on the sports jersey of your school that builds pride and loyalty. 7 academic lessons a day doesn’t do that. It then follows that you have a school of 1200 pupils of which 400-600 take part in sport (if you are lucky!) and 600-800 that have a dubious loyalt, and little incentive to be a proud
And for those who were never wage slaves in a FMCG (Fast Moving Consumer Goods) company, explanation of LSM can be found here. It is how the marketeers decide what to sell to you (Skip vs Omo), how (TV, Magazines – and which ones, or on the name board of the local spaza), and when (Saturday sport, Idols, Soap time, or during the dodgy late night movies on ETV
).
http://www.tvsa.co.za/default.asp?blogname=news&articleID=4931
@Queenian: Glenwood 103 years old and Westville 58 years old…
@Gungets Tuft: Yep, totally got what you are and were saying. Keep the high LSM parents happy and you sorted. The issue for Glenwood, College and DHS is that the surrounding area demographic is changing and mostly lower LSM, hence they are needing to look further afield and increase the size of the BE’s to accomodate kids from higher LSM families. Westville, Kearsney and Northwood are lucky to be in more affluent area’s but those are changing too. The future lies in the Ballito/north coast area’s so any school thinking about the future would look to open up a sister or brother school up that way to cater for the yuppy families moving in there and needing to find a school closer than Umhlanga. Agreed, on the intake thing too, let is slip just once and it’s a big repair job.
@Grasshopper: If Unilever are a client then my example will resonate. About 15 years ago Unilever decided that their green Sunlight laundry bar was so pervasive (even the opposition product like Lifeboy was called “sunlight” by users) that they could reduce advertising support. They did so for 2 months – it look them 2 years to get their market share back.
In exactly the same way, schools beware. Let your standards slip, even on just one intake, and you live with those consequences for 5 years. Slip for 2 or 3 years in a row and you risk your reputation for many years, because you compromise the intake for following years.
Northwood did it – I was “involved” there when they decided to throw open the gates to all comers when faced with the threat of subsidy cuts from Govt if they had empty seats. They then spent 5 torturous years getting the trust back from the Durban North people, 5 years of in-area intakes, starting to look really solid again, then screwed the pooch this year. Ask your Durban schools about the sudden flood of applications from Northlands, Chelsea, Virginia.
Read the sorry story of Sisyphus and his big round stone …. and pity those involved with government school marketing …
.. no rest for the wicked …
Interesting article. Let’s not knock those schools who like to keep their communities informed or those who chose to live in the dark ages and not use social media to spread their good news. I do concur with the comments that good schools thinking they don’t need to advertise or market will do so at their own peril. it is when you are at your best that you need to be more aware and further enhance your strategies around marketing.
Credit to the schools who use social media to keep their communities up to date with all they do.
and yes i subscribe to the RED ARMY!!!
@Grasshopper: Who is the older school out of Glenwood and Westville
@Rhino: Simple really, I have an association with Westville via many of my mates being WOB’s and a few family members being WOB’s. My dad and uncle are DHS Old boys, so by association, having lived across the road from Westville, parents living there now and plenty of braai’s with WOB’s it’s top of mind. Genuinely it’s all said in fun, if you don’t get that then you don’t get the point of this blog. Seriously, Westville is a great school but alot of the success is down to money, bursaries etc which is bought success. Like Chelsea and Man City the big older clubs don’t see it as genuine success via years of hard work. Anyway, hopefully see you at Waxies when Glenwood play Westville again and we can have a laugh over it…..
@Playa: And we hope its there last win
@BOG: Hahahaha! I was out in the EC for the weekend.I usually keep away from all technology when there…especially when Dale goes down to a co-ed.
Yeah Hudson rugby has been on the rise in the last couple of years.They drew with Selborne a few weeks back and gave QC a run for their money 2 weeks ago.All credit to them on their win agains the Dalians, but I think their win was a long time coming, especially against a weak Dale side who were probably still recovering from a bruising encounter against Selborne the week before.Hope that they put this behind them cause they have some Kudu to slaughter this weekend.
@Queenian: Correct. This was their forst victory at The Graveyard ever.
The last time Hudson beat Dale was in the 70s.
@Grasshopper
Bru – you are relentless in your weird obsession with Westville and trying to make some form criticizm when you can. Why? We have had many a banter but i still cannot understand you and why? you’ve even admitted to it…
During my average day the last thing on my mind is Glenwood…you are like a broken record and its pretty embarrassing.
You do have a right to have your opinion but its just always anti westville in some form or other and im thinking you can go see a shrink or something if its that bad?
I find it embarrassing because i wonder what the other country wide bloggers must think of us and it all as it always starts a “war” of words with GW and WBHS bloggers and is pretty tiresome.
I just see double standards as you will sometimes say ” its all banter etc” but reality is in the words spoken…you just cant help yourself… and you generally start it… honestly!
@greenwood – “scumbilo high” is a name associated to glenwood since many many years ago and i doubt it came from a Westville person… its the same as what grasshopper called us yesterday in his post “Queersville” — i just laugh as who gives a Sh*t its just a bit of fun really.
I soooo wished we had played you this year…!!!!!!
Grassy – do you even know how to write something without mentioning your “beloved” westville in it ? me thinks not.
i found some of your article interesting as didnt know the stats of it all but then you went on your boring jibes.
bore off. i didnt even wanna reply but i felt i had too…
As much as wbhs griffon posts can annoy you and be overdone at times they are generally based on replies to your annoying pre posts. he was in no means threatening!
Eish!
Don’t think Hudson have ever beaten Dale at the Grave Yard before.
Source- typo error and not spelling
@Playa: A sorce of mine tells me that the rugby at Hudson Park has picked up nicely. True or just a rumour? Any reason why you have been so quite since the weekend?
@Queenian: Haahahaha!
I guess “Durban” sounds much better than “King Williams Town”…hehehehe.
We couldnt prevent this exodus, counter offers were rejected.But from 2014, there is a lot that has been put in place to start holding on to our own.The wake-up call is long overdue,but definitely not too late.
@Playa: How on earth could Dale let so many of them go to DHS surely the Old Boys can step in and do something.
@QC86: @Playa: Yes those two boys went to Under 17 trials hear its there 4 year in Grade 7.
Hahaha
@QC86: Hehehehe…these accusations come out every year.Lungelo Gosa, Lubabalo Mthembu, and one kid who went to KES (played center – forgot his name) were also once rumoured to be over-age.I think rumours should be investigated then either confirmed or quashed.
Did these 2 players go to trials?
DHS better do their homework,i have heard that at least 2 of those boys are over age.Two of the better players did not go to u13 craven week,why??
@Grasshopper: Shareholders are just a financial stakeholder, parents and Old Boys are stakeholders, they are not that far apart. The battleground is set to attract fee paying clients and schools are not exempt. You do that by making your product attractive to a higher LSM client. Whether profit oriented or not the goal is the same, stable predictable “customers” who can be relied on for, firstly cash, secondly contributes to school affairs and ethos, thirdly for endowments.
If you look at schools like Alexandra High in PMB you will see ther decline linked to the lack of marketing. Suddenly they started losing high LSM clients, now they are seen as a budget brand. Every government school stands that risk, given the private schools market themselves by using the supposed lowered standards at government schools as a hook. Ask the 18 College dads with their boys at Kearsney, that will be their explanation. You get past that by marketing in an informative sort of way. Schools are using academic and sports results to advertise – that is their “gondola end” ….
@Grasshopper: Havent heard of any going to Glenwood.Rumour I heard is that DHS are trying to build a team for their 150th in 2016.But these boys will be 16 then, so I am not sure how true that is.Maybe they are just tryin to get their house in order period.
@Grasshopper – for what its worth, I got what you were trying to say in the article – pure observations and food for thought.
On another level, I also saw what you did you sneaky bugger – good fishing – one cast one catch – great stats!
@Playa: Any going to Glenwood? Not sure why they would go to DHS, their BE is not in great order yet…
@Gungets Tuft: agreed but schools are very different to a multi-national brand trying to sell products. Schools are trying to sell and experience. Agreed marketing is key for schools now that are run like businesses, but in the end they are actual supposed to be non-profit distributing organisations not reporting to shareholders, so any extra money made/profit must be put back into the school to improve it. Unilever etc are my clients and they have a completely different mindset. For me the schools website is key and currently some are not very good. Glenwood’s needs a lick of paint, College’s is ok, same with Westville but Northwood is taking the lead in usability and look and feel. Also, they need to start measuring the traffic properly (which is what I do) and potentially start to run proper banner ads, splash ads etc to make some extra money to fund all those bursaries, scrum machines etc..
@Queenian: It is true. Those 8 have been snapped up by DHS.Another 2 I know are going to Grey PE and Grey Bloem.Havent heard of the ones going to Kingswood and Selborne, but wouldnt be surprised if it is true.
@Grasshopper: I spent 15 years with one of the worlds leading FMCG companies, and believe me, if you think you can stop advertising because you have a strong brand you are signing your death warrant. Perhaps schools are different because there is no really strong competition, by which I mean that the Model C schools are always oversubscribed due to the pure government schools being so diabolical. As for schools not advertising, who is kidding who. Look at the front page of any of the schools websites and tell me that is true. They almost ALL have their achievers prominently displayed, they all ensure that their sports results are in the Sunday paper, the back pages of the local communiyt newspapers are full of pupils achievments. House and Kearsney take 1/2 page adverts in the papers come the 2nd half of the year. Not advertising?? (or are they considered weak brands?)
Interesting to see that 8 of Dale’s Under 13A boys have not applied for Dale senior which is a shame for a school who is trying everything to survive.
I do know that 1 boy is going to Kingswood/ 1 boy to Selborne and 1 to Grey PE were the others are going I am not sure maybe Playa can shed some light.
There was a story of 8 boys going to DHS but I am not sure how true this is.
Grasshopper
who came up with Scumbilo High ?- could it be emanating from a blogger from a school in the highway area ?
Can you imagine how many boys have applied for Grey College for next year. I do know that Grey PE have had 298 applicants for grade 8 next year and I think they can only take 170.
I do know that for 2013 Grade 8 there were 32 Under13 Craven week players who applied at Grey Bloem which is mind blowing. Although they did not take them all they still give Old Boys kids the right to first choice which is good.
@Grasshopper: Would be interesting to know how many re-tweets they got.
@Queenian: exactly, they rely on years of proven performance in producing great South African men. Glenwood does not need to advertise and are oversubscribed with applications threefold. Books like Spud has helped promote Michaelhouse though. I think it’s a fine balance, a little bit of promotion with facts only does help. What would be interesting is how many re-tweets these handles got..
@Grasshopper: Good schools don’t have to advertise they draw quality kids anyway.
@BOG: exactly, if you provide the service or product paid for no need to advertise, your advocates will do it for you. Schools like Grey, College etc deliver their core service, educating kids, with aplomb.
Just confirms that a strong “brand” requires less advertising
An analysis of the types of tweets might be interesting. College have quite a few followers and also tweet quite a bit, but I believe they are more informative than cheerleading. They always tweet results (win or lose), up coming events, reminders, etc. every now and again we might give a little applause for the likes of Deadly Dave Miller when he makes a good score (quite a few of those recently) or even KP when he sticks one to the common enemy (the Shackle Draggers).
Must confess I had to stop following KES, they are pretty relentless.
Agree that for Twitter to succeed you need either a quiet or a mature base of tweeters or you can do much more harm than good. A couple of snorts before tweeting is even more dangerous than drinking and blogging.
@WBHS Griffon: I’m shivering in my boots, it’s called freedom of speech and I don’t see any attack on Westville, just a personal opinion of the over zealous articles and tweeters. Mate, chill out, it’s called opinion, we are all allowed to have one. Write a story on how great Westville is and how crap Scumbilo High is and ask Beet to post it, sure he will. He promotes a democratic blog with freedom of opinion and speech in a civil manner, this is a civil observation based on fact…childish to try and threaten me on here….
A very poor attempt to mask a direct attack on Westville by trying to loop in KES and a few other schools and some social media stats.
Although I’m sure you feel pretty chuffed at getting your article up here, this is indeed very disappointing. You need to swallow your jealousy pill – this is a very poor and underhanded attempt at a generalized attack on Westville. TH and others will be made aware of this pathetic attempt at using social media figures for a direct attack on the school, shame on you.