The provisional final trial teams are out. 3 trial matches will be played at Pietermaritzburg’s Woodburn Stadium on Tuesday 21 May 2013. From the trials, 3 teams of 22 players each will be chosen: a Craven Week team, an Academy Week team and the Country Districts (CD) team. There is talk that 44 players will be chosen but that the announcement of the final Craven Week and Academy Week teams will be delayed The Country Districts team will play at the Academy Week. A CD player who impresses at trials can still be included in the the Craven Week team and it’s possibly that any Academy Week player can be called up to replace an injured player at Craven Week.
The 66 Tier-1 representatives are as follows: Glenwood (22), Kearsney (13), Maritzburg College (13), Westville (5), Michaelhouse (4) , George Campbell (3), Hilton (3), Northwood (1) and DHS (1). St Charles (1) and Clifton (1) also have one apiece.
The programme is:
13h00: Kyle vs Mtshali
14h00: Prinsloo vs Blose
15h00: Erasmus vs Moodley
16h00: Possibles vs Probables
| KYLE | MTSHALI | PRINSLOO | BLOSE | ERASMUS | MOODLEY | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | T. MKHIZE (EMP) | 1 | T. PICKERING (TREV) | 1 | D. VAN TONDER (Glenwood) | 1 | P. MNGADI (Glenwood) | 1 | T. ZUMA (M.College) | 1 | T. VISSER (Kearsney) |
| 2 | A. OLIVIER (ASH) | 2 | N. NCANANA (PS) | 1 | C. HOLENSTEIN (Michaelhouse) | 1 | S. SITHOLE (M.College) | 2 | K. VAN VUUREN (Glenwood) | 2 | M. MAZWI (M.College) |
| 3 | L. MDAKANE (TREV) | M. MTHETHWA (SC) | 2 | J. MEAKER (Kearsney) | 2 | V. KHATIDE (M.College) | 3 | K. TREDOUX (Glenwood) | 3 | J. GUMEDE (M.College) | |
| 4 | E. BOTES (PIO) | 3 | E. MARX (PIO) | 2 | B. GREAVES (St Charles) | 3 | F. MUDARIKI (Michaelhouse) | 4 | N. VIDIMA (Glenwood) | 4 | J. GOUWS (Hilton) |
| 5 | R. DU TOIT (EMP) | 4 | B. MHLONZI (JRC) | 3 | M. MOLOI (Kearsney) | 3 | M. MAJOLA (Westville) | 5 | D. DU PREEZ (Kearsney) | 5 | C. KRUGER (Glenwood) |
| 6 | C. FOORD (PIO) | 5 | H. GELDART (WEST) | 4 | S. BUTHELEZI (M.College) | 4 | C. SCHOEMAN (Michaelhouse) | 6 | W. MAZIBUKO (Glenwood) | 6 | J. CONRADIE (M.College) |
| 7 | J. SWANEPOEL (VRY) | 6 | B. RADEMEYER (SN) | 4 | M. DU TOIT (Kearsney) | 4 | J. MARTIN (Westville) | 7 | J.L. DU PREEZ (Kearsney) | 7 | M. MULLER (Glenwood) |
| 8 | N. BUTHELEZI (FEL) | S. KARLSON (HOW) | 5 | S. VD HEEVER (Glenwood) | 5 | N. PHEWA (G.Campbell) | 8 | A. SCHRAMM (Kearsney) | 8 | J. COETZEE (Glenwood) | |
| 9 | C. RODRIQUES (RBHS) | 7 | T. NDLELA (SC) | 6 | W. HIPPOLITE (Glenwood) | 6 | R. KAY (Glenwood) | 9 | M. REECE-EDWARDS (Kearsney) | 9 | K. KHANYILE (Glenwood) |
| 10 | M. CELE (GREY) | 8 | A. MDUDI (PS) | 7 | G. COETZEE (Glenwood) | 7 | K. NELL (Clifton) | 10 | T. TEDDER (Kearsney) | 10 | K. WEBSTER (DHS) |
| 11 | A. BOOYSE (FER) | 9 | J. MAJOLO (GREY) | 8 | N. MASEKO (Hilton) | 8 | G. MURRAN (Northwood) | 11 | S. NGCOBO (Glenwood) | 11 | M. JOUBERT (Glenwood) |
| 12 | J. PRETORIUS (RBHS) | 10 | S. POTGIETER (JRC) | 9 | R. McHARDY (Westville) | 9 | N. SIBIYA (G.Campbell) | 12 | A. NELA (Glenwood) | 12 | T. BLEWETT (Hilton) |
| 13 | A. NDLOVU (SC) | 10 | R. ELLIOTT (PS) | 10 | C. JONAS (Glenwood) | 9 | L. BOOYSEN (M.College) | 13 | B. ELLSE (Westville) | 13 | N. NCUMA (Glenwood) |
| 14 | R. MPONTSHANA (DUN) | 11 | A. GWALA (GREY) | 11 | B. NGWENYA (M.College) | 10 | J. KOEKEMOER (M.College) | 14 | L. NGCOBO (M.College) | 14 | B. ARNOTT (Michaelhouse) |
| 15 | J. HEUNIS (RBHS) | 12 | L. MBANDA (WART) | 12 | T. SMITH (Kearsney) | 11 | T. TOBEJANE (Glenwood) | 15 | C. VERMAAK (Glenwood) | 15 | K. ELDER (M.College) |
| 13 | C. BOTHA (PIO) | 13 | B. CREMER (Kearsney) | 12 | L. NDIMANDE (G.Campbell) | ||||||
| 14 | S. MNIKATHI (HOW) | 13 | M. COETZEE (M.College) | 13 | M. PETER (DHS) | ||||||
| 15 | K. NGEMA (GRE) | 14 | S. MATHIWANE (Glenwood) | 14 | T. NDLOVU (Kearsney) | ||||||
| 15 | C. LINES (Kearsney) | 15 | L. SNYMAN (Westville) |
Schramm was a centre until last year when moved to lock then no 8.
That’s why he has pace, great hands. Stand to be corrected, anyone.
I have watch Goody play from u9. Great player and even better kid. Just think he is just being edged by a classy, tall strong Schramm. He should make up the loose trio for the Academy XV at min.
He too has got skills and heard talk he might even move to 12.
I think that Plumtree should watch a few school boy games to get fresh ideas. I am amazed at some of the moves that different schools at various age group levels pull off. It is refreshing compared to Sharks and Springbok rugby.
It wasn’t always that way. I remember players like Reece-Edwards, Wayne Fyvie and Bobby Skinstad scoring cheeky tries from tap penalties that caught the opposition napping.
The lines that the back 3 of Joubert, Kabous and Small would run was always something to behold. They kept the opposition guessing. That is what is ultimately wrong with our pros, they are predictable. When they finally get tired of bashing it up into a brick wall, they kick the ball away and hope for the best.
@GreenBlooded: At the end of the day it is a team game and if the team performs the individual will stand out, in my opinion the game is about combinations and players complimenting each other and ultimately the team. It was good to see how Kearsney minus the Dupreez twins achieved an unbeaten status to the Paarl Gym game, It is even better to see the team with the twins, now playing a team focussed approach!
will be there ,10th year of club rugby this year I think . Will have to double check with our coach , for the 10 year in a row.
@Black and white: We will start registering Colts players next week so stay in touch with your club chairman for more details!! It’s going to be a bumper Colts Season this year – looking forward to it.
@Black and White: Exactly, who are our x-factor players. U r right, Hougaart has become boring, as has a player like Francios Steyn – to be fair, he looks more like a prop than a centre these days…
I loved watching Human of Outenique, jeez, very refreshing… Perhaps he will be a lil small after school, but my word, at this level he is dynamite – and he only weighs 65kg
It is strange watching Super 15 rugby live, sometimes, there will be a 3 or even 4 man overlap in the 22 and the flyhalf simply kicks and the other guys chase. It seems so drilled into the guys that there almost appears to be no thought. Then, on the odd occasion that they do run, they seem nervous of making mistakes – the phrase goes, High Risk, High Reward
@Amalekite: I agree wholeheartedly, club rugby is absolutely fantastic and have seen boys bloom with confidence when given the opportunity . We are sooooo stereotyped at school level unless you are 1,9 m and weighing 95 kg you just have noon chance at certain positions . Club is a wonderful leveling place allowing players to develope and grow without the pressures of big school corridor critics.
@RBugger: it is truly a reflection of the state of our rugby style . Where are the true playmakers today ? Hougaart has become boring and uninspiring , when a few seasons ago he made you hold your breath and seat !! You have to ask the question what happened ? …… Well the answer would be that he was put on a collar and chain . The unfortunate part is that X factor players are often harder to handle than your YES boys . The Coopers , Beales of the world are wonderful and gifted playmakers and have the ability to change the course of any game . But I get the sense that the coaching and selectors would prefer to do without them in the team as they bring a sense of instability or an element of the unknown . Let our young boys express themselves on the green fields without fear of possibly making a mistake and ruining the coaches reputation .
I have found that junior club rugby after the school season is over is an excellent system that allows the boys to play more freely. If the boys are able to fit it in, I would recommend it. I have seen many boys flourish at club level versus playing for their schools. The other bonus is that they get to see the bigger picture and make new friends from other schools. It would actually be interesting to get one of the top club sides to play a game against a good school like Glenwood in the same age group and see how they fare. It is possible as Glenwood have a longer season that overlaps with the start of the junior club season. A midweek game perhaps ?
@Ruggersake: Agreed – great player from what I’ve seen (3 matches at KERF and the Glenwood match). I look forward to the showdown between him and Darren Goodson though – although I fear the Kearsney forwards as a unit will detract from the individual head-to-head.
@beet: If that is true, it is very very sad! If you cannot express yourself in school boy rugby, then what hope do we have to ever find an expansive game!
Just look at the Stormers and Sharks – there attacking play is shocking!
@Ruggersake: It seems we like the same kind of player mould. Let’s hope he makes it into the KZN team and has a good CW as I really do rate him and the way in which he plays.
Having said all that, CW will be the tester – in order to be considered an excellant player, he will need to perform against the best at CW
@Black and white: @GreenBlooded: I’ve come to hear about the same thing about a certain E/Cape school this year as well. A player in the team mentioned that he was too scared to do anything outside the rehearsed game plan out of fear that if he did, he might get dropped.
@Amalekite: Good on you. I think someone mentioned it that too many here respond with school caps on. If people disagree with the selection process it should be across the board and not just pertain to the age-group that impacts on them. The same applies to those who appreciate the system as it is.
A couple of years back I read a comment from from a supporter probably a parent criticising the u16 selection process because he/she believed the players from the school he/she supported had been hard done by. Two years later – now what. One can’t afford to love the u18 process and hate the u16s or vice versa. They essentially are the same process just different personnel.
@Black and White: Very, very true! It happens in SA Rugby so often. All is well when you are at school and weigh 10-15kgs more per player – ie, the Afrikaans schools can adopt this kind of play, as they simply run over the smaller, generally English players.
However, after school, amoungst the big boys who all pretty much weigh the same and are of equal strength, this style becomes boring and does not work – just look at the All Blacks, let us be honest, they are the best team in the world year in year out. They combine power play with thinking on their feet.
In my oponion, the reason the Bulls have done so well this year again, is that they have Jan Serfontein at inside centre who is a real distributor of the ball. He is strong as all hell, but he also has skill and knows when it is on – he has made Steyn look like a good distributing flyhalf, simply because he communicates to his flyhalf when there are opportunities out wide.
Schoolboy Rugby should never be too structured, it should be fast flowing and exciting! Hence my liking of a player such as Schramm, to me, I like a kid who has the physical attributes, but can think on his feet – he knows when to pass and when to run. As an examply, when Kearsney beat Glenwood, it was Schramm who drew in the opposing wing and sent a perfect pass wide. I know of many forward players who would have passed to early or simply tried to bash his way over.
Anyway, provided your tight 5 play a tight structured game, I see no reason why the loosies and backs should not be allowed to run when and where the opportunity arises.
@Black and white: VERY VERY GOOD POINT!! I have seen this happen so often – even at primary school level, where a coach insists on a rigid structure and ends up knocking the individual flair out of the boys. It’s quite a balancing act – getting just enough structure in place so that the boys do not run amock but at the same time allowing the boys to play the game in front of them when the situation presents itself and to use their individual talents for the greater good. I think it is one of the marks of an excellent coach to get this balance right.
@Amalekite: Agree 100%. Needs to be balance across the board.
@star: Star , is pretty much as i saw it . Some good play on the day but two player really stood out for me . Fullback who normally is a wing had a great game , he added some variety and u bit of unpredicatabilty to our regular fullback . no 12 , who as mentioned before has not made next round of trials , turned a close game on its head and ended up winning comfortabily . BUT my real gripe here is how coaching structures are hampering our players with flare and who at times need to back their instinct . I wonder if coaches and selectors dislike these players as they dont always conform to their rigid structures . Who now, are being moulded into this years particular coaches style , whos overiding fear of his win/ratio stats for the season supercedes the developement of these talented players . As we go through the age groups , the pressure of conforming erodes these boys ability to think on their feet and adapt to a change of gameplan . The fear of being the scapegoat of selection processes or lost games is making our boys , who play for the love of the game , into these BORING , BALLCARRYING OAFS !! That we seem to be watching each week in SUPER 15 . Does anybody else have any comments or thoughts on the the structures and gameplans our boys are playing at schoolboy levels and how , and if todays SB coaches are embracing the conservative gameplans of yesteryear . Or are they adopting the wider , faster structures of the Kiwis ??
@Gungets Tuft: I was not just speaking about the U18 selection process. I am saying that all 3 age groups selection process is flawed and needs to be overhauled. There needs to be more neutrality and transparency.
@ Pedantic- I am not sure where you get 6 loosies as I count only 5 of which 2 are the Westville locks. You implied that 3 loosies were B team which is incorrect. The reason that the locks are playing as loosies is the very same reason I believe that the key DHS and Kearsney loosies are playing at lock. Height and balance might be the issue. I am sure if KZN had other options at lock the two key players would knock out the Westville A team players. And I think the issue of balance might be the reason Westville have the odd bad game. So you have players good enough to go trials as all rounders but because they are not specialists the team could suffer on occasion. My gut feel is that the final team will unjumble the confusing info above and do us proud at GK. ( and then GT can stop being so emotional
)
@Gungets Tuft: The same applies to the U16 and U13.
@GreenBlooded: Having watched numerous College and Kearsney fixtures this year, I think Rbugger is spot on this Scramm is a breath off fresh air and brings a different dimention to the no. 8 game, speed, distrabution physicality and size
@star: & @ Gungets Tuft …
Yes, I’ve seen Westville play – they’re a good team but I must say the U16 teams all look very close this year. Kearsney have lost 1 game this season – to Glenwood, however they then went on to beat MHS who beat Glenwood – all very close.
There is no doubt that Westville deserve a lot of representation at final trials, but if you look at the make up of the numbers – with 6 loosies from Westville – this would suggest that both DHS’s key player (DHS beat Westville) and one of Kearsney’s key players would only make the U16C team at Westville (no place for them in final trials in loosie positions).
I, like Gungets am struggling to join the dots, but from all the jumbled info above it would seem that in terms of team ethic and good coaching, Kearsney would have the upper hand as on form they are better than both Hilton(7) and MHS(7), yet only have 4 players at final trials and only 2 in their preferred positions.
It’s all very wierd – but I think at the end of the day a decent team will emerge from this whole process, I just hope that players are selected for the right reasons.
@star: Nope – havent seen Westville play – my statement is pretty straight forward about results that I know. Don’t have to see them play to try and join the dots.
Skonk – seriously – Westville outperformed College?? College beat Hudson 21-5, you guys beat them 31-12. Is there a real difference?. I can tell you for certain, that if you had played Hudson first, your claim would have been that Westville “softened them up” for College. And we will leave the KZN Development side out of the reckoning, they just got thumped (College 67-7 and Westville 51-0, but only after Westville softened them up for us)
Clumsy writing again, tow-truck driver stuff, I mean College unbeaten, not Glenwood.
I take it that 13 players from Westville U16 is fine for you then, the loss to DHS just an abberation. Cool then, if you think it is OK then the rest of us just have to then.
Breaking my word esor, getting sucked into this. Work to do, accidents all over the place, gorra saddle up and earn some bucks.
@ Gungets- Have you watched Westville play? Just tick the yes or no box. Westville beat Hilton who beat MHS who beat GW.( they are not unbeaten in KZN) . GW beat Hilton by one point( last minute penalty) whereas Westville beat them by 11.Also Westville outperformed MC at Skonk on Goldstones.( against Hudson Park and KZN Dev).Please refer previous threads on Skonk with headlines” Westville Shines” The results against KES and PBHS also show that Westville and College are pretty close. Therefore please see the DHS result for what it was. A once off very poor performance which hopefully the boys will have learnt a great deal from. Please see that there is a big picture here and using one poor result can create unnecessary distortions. I agree that College have had some overwhelming results against NW and DHS , and so maybe their team work ethic needs to be applauded.
@Gungets Tuft: Ding-Dong…….
@Gungets Tuft: Pretty simple answer to that question – but I fear it would get tippexed…..
@Amalekite: And since you are saying it as it is, can I just pose a question then, about the U16’s (and this really is my last say on the subject, but it has just hit me between the eyes – my Matric Maths teacher was right – I am much slower than the other boys!!)
In the U16’s – if Glenwood beat DHS who in turn beat Westville, and College beat DHS 66-6, how does the entire Westville team, bar 2 (13 in all – the biggest number from any school) make it through to the final trials. There can be a rationale that Glenwood have a big number, by virtue of their unbeated status so far in KZN, so can College’s numbers be justified. But Westville … 13 players?
Is this a bunch of extremely talented individuals and really bad teamwork, or poor coaching, that so much potential is seen in an underperforming team?
Westville (13), Glenwood (12), Maritzburg College (9), Hilton (7), Michaelhouse (7), DHS (4), Kearsney (4), Northwood (4)
@Ruggersake: Ya, Schramm is a star in the making! I heard he scored 2 against Saints? Agree on Goodsen, you can see he is a hard, commited player, but he does not seem to get his hands on the ball much, put in a good hit or two – but to be fair, KES are very average!
Remember though, he is still in grade 11, so next year could be his year
@ Black and White- to be honest no one really stood out in the first half ( except for the odd run by the loosies and the lock) The backs were far too lateral for my liking and the PN defence just lined them up on the sidelines. The resultant half time score was nil nil. The backline player you are refering to then had one on those moments of brilliance that you cannot coach. He chipped ahead ,gathered the ball and after a one two with the full back( who also had a blinder) scored the try that changed the game. He together with the team just grew from there. I think Cyndi and Pedantic know of him through the DRSU structures and can relate to those “X” factor moments. My only advise would be for him to improve on his consistency.
@Amalekite: All would be equal if it was not the union who caused these inequalities. They are the ones picking CW teams. The teachers/selectors just doing what the big master instruct.
@Grasshopper: Grassy, this is not about which Westville players should or should not be there. I am talking about the whole process.
After speaking to many coaches and experienced parents and players, the selection process appears to work in this manner:
1. Selectors pre-select the PD players that they are obliged to.
2. They then pre-select the other “super-players” that are not to be excluded for various reasons unknown to us.
3. They then pre-select the balance of the squad.
4. At the ” trials “, they stick with their pre-determined squad, which makes trials a waste of time for 99% of boys.
5. The only time that they do not select one of these pre-selected players is through serious injury or really bad form. In such a case, they then choose the next best player at the trials, depending on whether they need to replace a PD player or not.
You may not agree with the above, but I am willing to put this theory to a vote amongst the bloggers on this site. I am calling a spade a spade. I believe that I am putting in writing what everyone discusses quietly when they socialise.
The other big issue with the selectors is their affiliations to certain schools. This needs to be eradicated. Selectors should be totally neutral. The only thing that I can think of, is to have guys from the union, who are not biased. Players should be prohibited from displaying any school colours. Their names should be omitted from team sheets – Each could be given a number only.
I am not saying that Westville boys are being hard done by. I am saying that it is not fair for boys to travel from all over the province to Woodburn and play their hearts out for no reason. Rather just tell them that the selectors have attended many games and that they have chosen their squads already. Now, this may appear a bit radical, but is it ? How do they select international football squads ? There are no trials. I am not advocating this, but simply saying that we need to be honest if we are to have trials. All the players need to be on equal footing in such a process.
@star: 11 out of 22. In that process there is collateral damage, it is left to coaches and parents to try and put humpty back together again. Luckily the boys that get to this level generally have the drive to take non-selection as a motivating factor , rather than just capitulating. Luckily (I can’t believe I am saying this) there is a decent scouting system in place so talented kids that get overlooked for GK and CW can still make it. Marcel Coetsee is a case in point, long may that last, because the sun is not going to set on the problem for some time.
Don’t get me wrong here, this is not an accusation against selectors, far from it, in the event that is where you are going with the leading question. I would not have their jobs for all the hops and barley in Ireland. My recent insights make me feel ill, this is definitely my last post on the matter and there will be no comment from me on the CW and GK selections. It can only be seen as sour grapes, gloating, or excuses. All the lighties deserve better, they don’t pick themselves, I am sure they all give 100%.
I should take my own advice and not post when I am still emotional about it. Hopefully HF1 will remind me next time I do it 8)
@Tjoppa:
Just in time for the 150th celebrations in 2016. Maybe less boys will be doing things like squash,badminton etc and play real sport in Rugby.
But of course, keep the ones who are keeping the school at the top academically
@HORSEFLY NO.1: And in two years time the true number one in KZN. Of course rugby ne.
@Tjoppa:
Then the starting XV will sound more like Glenwoods with names like ‘Coetzee’,’Steyn’ etc…
Classes soon taught in Afrikaans, parents soon greeted by ‘Goeie More Meneer’ instead of ‘Morning Sir’
@star: heard it was a tough game . also a particular backline player who didnt make the final round of trilas , has a stormer ?? did u see the whole game and if so can you comment as it seems interesting that selectors , dont seem to always recognise players with x factor !! as mentioned before by Cindy and pedantic !
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Do not worry with a surname like that he will fix all wrong in a jiffy.
Good Luck to Leon Erasmus who’s officially starting at DHS tomorrow! Huge task ahead for the man !!
@star:
Please man…GK teams are at least 50% pre-determined evey year. That was discussed at length when last years team was selected and will probably be discussed again in a week or so when the 2013 team is picked. Its been shown time and time again that the school you are from is more important than skill here.
@ Gungets- ” as many as 11 positions in the GK team are picked before trials even start”. Please as you are in the know please give me 70 % of the team as you obviously have the inside track.
@Ruggersake: I was looking for CW, SA Schools, Currie Cup etc. on pure size, I am still a supporter of the theory that it is not the size of the dog in the fight that matters. It the size of the fight in the dog. The proof is the “winningness” of the teams he has played in and the part he has played in the teams. I am off the subject now, in case I am mistaken for a lobbyist which I am not. Let it just be said that the flaws in the process are mind boggling. That as many as 11 positions in the GK team are picked before trials even start is evidence of that. We can discuss that until well after milking time, nothing going to change it. All that changes is that I will pay much, much less attention to those representative teams in future. And if I get asked by the kids themselves, and I will, I will give them exactly that advice. All I will be able to do is hopefully turn it into a mentorship opportunity. Amazing how often there is more to learn from not being picked, or from losing.
@Gungets Tuft: The political level…… which advocates size and various other pre-requisites an unfortunate draw back of our system…..
@Ruggersake: What higher level do you mean?
@RBugger: watched the college no.8 against KES, he is tough and committed but will not compete at the higher level of the game, size does matter
@RBugger: I have just posted a comment in the general section relative the performance vs Saints of the no. 8 Scramm, realy is a find for the future and I did not realise he was in the final cw side….
If you think the current situation is poor, wait till the final selections have been made.
Bog is going to be nodding sagely and saying “ek sè maar niks”
With all the inevitable fallout from CW selections it is sometimes good to take a step back and enjoy SBR for what it really is all about. I had such a moment on Saturday when a C team prop suddenly found himself playing for the U16A in a highly charged game. He lifted his game and scummed like a machine and when given the ball 5 m from the line smashed his way over only to be held up by the defender whom he had landed on. I am sure that imprint will be there for a while. This larger than life character was suitably supported by his fellow school mates who chanted his name from the stands.And finally when he got leg cramps and was to be substituted he declined and had to be dragged from the field of play. And that is why the boys play the game of rugby.
@Amalekite: OK, so who from Westville should of made it but didn’t? I can think of one, Jackson but he does not even play 1st for Westville. Not sure it’s a sham when the team is about 90% right..
@Grasshopper: Not a problem anyway as selectors seem to have made up their minds ages ago….Only 3 players that were in the dominant Highway pack made it into the A team for the final trials – The Doops and Schramm.
I’m starting to believe what everyone says about the trials being a sham and a waste of time.
@Scrum Doctor: And I think looking at the selection panels for u16 and u18, there is from my perspective as a complete outside what looks like an obvious adjustment to be made.
1 u16 selector each from Westville and Maritzburg College moves up to the u18 panel and is replaced by 2 selectors who are on the u18 panel.
Westville appears to be doing something right when it comes to coaching props. We only really get to see these guys coming through in u19 + u21 junior rugby because they don’t get selected for the KZN u18 teams. So possibly a bit of hope for the future and annoyance with the present situation for WBHS supporters
Just remembered Westville and Kearnsey did not play last weekend so were far fresher at the trials, no wonder the highway side played well. The Glenwood and Hilton lads played a bruiser in the mud just a couple of days before..,
@All Black: Westvile have a fixation of giving preference to matric boys in their 1st team . I honestly believe some of the boys who were not selected by the school to go to trials would have had a much better chance of making representative sides . They have also played a few boys out of position which has not done them any favours when selection time comes around . However we cannot really argue that they are having a decent season though . The fact that so many GW boys are in seems to be at the detriment of Westville . One school under represented and one very over represented – makes you wonder who calls the shots
4 pionier players great stuff!
erasmus team looks like the final team?
Only 5 Westville players in 6 teams? Are the selectors saying they are just well coached as a team?
@Slam: 15. Elder 14. Ngobo 13. Koekemoer 12. Culverwell 11. Coetzee 10. Alexander 9. Booysen 8. Goodson 7. Conradie 6. Tharrat 5. Buthelezi 4. Jacobs 3. Gumede 2. Mazwi 1. Steyn 16. Le Roux
Pity that so many comments are made with school caps on.
@Beet: My answer is no on both fronts, Our front row will not be as powerful and our backs will most certainly not have the pace of the likes of SWD, BULLS and WP.
Having said that, if the guys are chosen on merit, our locks and loosies will be more than fine, in fact, I have a feeling they can even dominate.
Our backs lack pace, the only geniune out and out pace I have seen is the Glenwood left wing, think they call him Sparks.
If Teddar starts, he has a capable rugby brain on him, it is about choosing when to run and when to kick for territory. We do not have a Human for Outenique or a Gallant or a Van Der Merve all SWD players – these are very special backline players, they have massive pace and make a real impact.
The CW side will need to play as a team and they will need to be clever in their approach.
Our tight five will more than likely compete, but not dominate – therefore, play a structure whereby we play in the opposition half – do not try to much in our half as we may get a hiding at ruck time.
But again, CW has not even started yet, let’s give the boys a chance to prove themselves – it will be tough, we do not have as many stars, but we can play as a team and hopefully give a good account of ourselves at CW
@beet: Agreed on all fronts, so who is the best defensive centre in KZN presently? Dean Moolman was this when Fisher player, Fisher broke the line and Dean shored it up….
@RBugger: I guess it depends how we define fairing well. If KZN wins on CW Day 1, they automatically line themselves up for more difficult opponents for the next 2 match days. So I think the criteria should be that the boys maxed out on their potential rather than just look at the win-loss record.
However for many the success will be measured by the win-loss record and KZN over the last few years has only won 1 game and lost 2 generally.
The feeling on the ground is that the Bulls (who seem to gain an unfair advantage through bypassing the whole development aspect by importing PDIs without SARU doing anything about it) and WP who have always thrived under the quota system, may be stronger than the cohesive unit that is SWD. So the Bulls and WP should be the favourites going in.
With the SWD team being finalised the bar is sort of set in terms of what a province has to achieve to be a contender. We have more or less seen their team in the form of Outeniqua at KERF, at WildeK, on TV, so there is a good idea of what they are capable of.
So can we put a pack of forwards on the park that can complete with SWD? – I think we stand a chance of coming out on top in the loose but whether we are able to dominate in scrums and lineouts will depend on selections.
Can we put together a backline that can a) contain their backline b) make inroads of our own? – right now I’m not so confident here. I think what we have seen this season is that our flashy players are not the best defenders and our best defenders don’t excite on attack. We also don’t have a big strong go-to back like in the last few years when we had the likes of Fisher, Kriel and Howard.
So for me the 2 big KZN CW challenges are going to extra lengths to find players that will give us the strongest setpieces possible. Good scrums, accurate lineouts. And then back off on the flash and pick solid backs that are defensively switched on. The Bulls, WP and SWD all have x-factor backs. I don’t think we can beat any of these teams in a high tempo high scoring shootout style game but I think if we keep the scores low by keeping 50% possession and bring good defence, we improve our chances considerably.
@Sharkie: That is pretty spot on, even the best – ie Dan Carter, struggle behind a losing pack.
Interestingly enough, for the Highway trials they did just that, they played the Du Preezs and Schramm on opposite teams, all 3 players excelled.
Look the KZN team has not yet been chosen, let’s just see what happens, I am sure the KZN side will fair well at CW this year
I havent watched the college number 8 and i think Schramm is a quality player but what must be remembered is who each player is playing with. Playing behind the kearsney pack must be a dream for any loose forward, scrumhalf, flyhalf etc as the pack has dominated all teams this year even paarl gim. The challenge comes for the selectors to see how players play behind losing packs. Often think they should mix up the teams strength wise so to see how players play under different pressure levels. To give you an idea seperate du preez and schramm for the trials just an example.
@Gungets Tuft: I must admit, I have only watched 2 of their games, one of those against PBHS – I am actually a Pretoria Boys High Old Boy, I now support Kearsney as I live close by and have watched them for a couple of years.
I must say, I did not notice the College number 8, PBHS have 2 very good flanks, perhaps they nullified Goodsen a bit.
I do not want to come across as bias, but I really rate Schramm, I was a huge fan of Skinstad in his hay day and Schramm reminds me of him somewhat. He has top ball skills, passes and runs at the right time, fantastic in the lineout and he is a natural athlete, big, strong and fast.
I like this kind of number 8, especially if you have a Du Preez at flank doing the dirty work, they play off each other really well.
I must be honest, I do not know enough about this Goodsen to comment, that is why I said it will be interesting to see College play Kearsney, to see how they match up.
But i can guarentee you, if Schramm does end up being the KZN 8, just watch him – I feel he is a special player who brings something different to the 8th man role
@RBugger: I guess we will have to see on the day. Schramm is more physical I think but Goodson offers more in terms of reading the game and work-rate. It will be a great head-to-head. As an overall contest I think the Kearsney forwards will dominate – with or without the Doops. I have the advantage of having watched both Kearsney and College 4 times each and Goodson would be my pick. Koekemoer / Tedder will also be a contest to watch. Interestingly, all the top 10’s this year are all U17 / Gr 11, Koekemoer, Tedder, Jonas, Anderson. Not sure about Webster – I think he’s in Matric.
@GreenBlooded: I would be the first to acknowledge that there have and always will be issues and differences regarding the selection process of any sport. But to deny that there are issues involved regarding the selection of representative sport in SA, in this case rugby, in ADDITION to the normal differences,is being extremely naive. And then to proceed and pretend that those issues do not exist and then to top it all, to express surprise when obvious deserving players are omitted, goes beyond being naive. I could continue—
@RBugger: Have you watched College play much.
@Greenblooded: I have got to disagree on your 8th man pick! Schramm has been the standout No8 in KZN this year, without a doubt!
Will be interesting to see their matchup when College play Kearsney
@GreenBlooded: Goodsen included in the starting XV vs KES
Maritzburg College XV vs. King Edward VII (18 May): 15 Kelvin Elder, 14 Lindo Ngcobo, 13 Marcell Coetzee, 12 Simon Culverwell, 11 Banele Ngwenya, 10 Jordan Koekemoer, 9 Lucas Booysen, 8 Darren Goodsen, 7 Renard le Roux, 6 Hayden Tharratt, 5 Seko Buthelezi, 4 Jacques Conradie, 3 Njubulo Gumede, 2 Masikani Mazwi, 1 Tiaan Steyn.
@star: Goodsen’s time was this year. No doubt about it. I can only imagine that his injury has kept him out. Best No 8 I’ve seen in KZN this year out of Westville (4 games), Kearsney (4 games), Glenwood (4 games), College (4 games).
@Grasshopper: kay is starting at 6 for the 2nd team.
@ Ruggaman- I think you will find that Goodsen’s time will be next year where as Beet says he might have to re-invent himself as an open side flanker. You must also remember that Smith was a converted lock who should have gone to CW to offer something different at the back of the lineout.( especially against the Lions where we lost 8 lineouts in a row)
GLENWOOD 1ST XV VS DHS on 18 May 2013
1. Percy Mngadi
2. Kerron van Vuuren
3. Koos Tredoux
4. Seth van den Heever
5. Ntokozo Vidima
6. Waylon Hippolite
7. Mzwandile Mazibuko (c)
8. Jaco Coetzee
9. Kyle Gerhard
10. Curtis Jonas
11. Sphamandla Ngcobo
12. Akhona Nela
13. Nkululeko Mcuma
14. Miguel Martins
15. Morné Joubert
Not sure who Miguel Martins is and where Rupert Kay is, am aware of Vermaak’s injury :-(
@beet: Yup – heard from a reliable source that he is still carrying the shoulder injury that he got at Wildeklawer, played half a match (not at his best obviously) and had to go off to the physio at halftime taking no further part in the trials. Perhaps the injury is serious and that’s why he wasn’t selected. Will be sorely missed on Goldstones this weekend with KES coming down if that is the case.
[EDITED]
@Grasshopper: Goodsen is grade 11. Seems college 8th men have had a tough time over the last few years. Mullis, Smith and now Goodsen.
Really thought Mare had a big chance this year, disappointed not to see him and Le Roux in the reckoning. That Erasmus vs Moodley game doesn’t look too far off probables vs possibles in itself?
@beet: Yep, such is life. He is a motivated and driven lightie and will just go out and show what he has in the remaining inter-school fixtures. He is U17 and Gr11 so has another shot next year. There will be a few people that will, by the end of the year, be asking how he was left out.
Get the point about the kids from “unfancied schools”, I guess you do need to balance everything. The omission of Simpson in the GK teams just adds to the unease about trials though.
@beet: BUT last year Carel Swart was injured during trials and still made it, but maybe in his grade 11 year he was so good they just could not leave him out and he was the incumbent……is Goodsen grade 11?
@GreenBlooded: Goodson/Goodsen (not sure if the English or Danish spelling is correct
) was at trials this week but just back from an injury so far from his best.
One of those cases when one hoped that selectors watch a player during the season – unfortunately as the current selection setup stands this would also be prejudicial towards all small school contenders, so trials have to rule supreme to make it equal opportunity.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: For 50 years DHS and College were preferred for Natal Schools because they were the two powerhouse schools and I’m sure many a great individual player from Glenwood and other schools were never picked, this is life. Over the past 10 years Glenwood and Kearsney have probably been the strongest on average followed by Westville and College and Michaelhouse having a couple of spectacular years. Gericke (ex DHS) is a selector and I’m sure would have a slight bias towards his old players. Also, the whole Le Roux Van Zyl thing looks really silly now, if he had gone to Glenwood he probably would have played 1st and got more exposure…….anyway hen you side loses more than it wins it is harder to get noticed because the players around you don’t help you get noticed…….playing with and against the best improves your game and get’s you in front of the selectors.
@Buffel: He is only 16 though, so give him time……next year will be his year…
@TheGoose: not in the same league.
How does GW #9 Khanyile compare to Reece McHardy?
The final trial teams seem to be right bar a few glaring ommissions. Yes, goodsen should have been included and would have been in my acadamy side with a view of next year but the Craven week xv is going to be a complete side and should represent our province with pride. I disagree with Zncoach that the front row is a problem area. Kearsney played a full strength NW side and totally dominated in the wet. Visser,Meaker and Maloi held their own and by the games end were all over the NW boys with Maloi scoring a try in the dying moments. The right boys have been included and the proof will be at Craven week .
@ZnCoach: I agree with you re Chidoma. Being left out not the issue, but there a a few that were selected ahead of him that are way behind him in terms of skill and mobility – no1 U16 prop is SA last year.
@Gungets: Goodsen did trial and I watched the game he played in. To be honest, I didn’t even notice him on the field. So I’m guessing that if I didn’t, neither did the selectors.
@TheGoose: @beet. Sorry – I see Pretorius at centre
Wow looks like a few guys who should have been in are not, clearly the selectors know what they are doing, I still think KZN Achilles heel is the front row and in my opinion one of the best scrummagers has not been included and that is Chadoma( not sure of spelling) from NW , big strong mobile and is only 16, so maybe next year. Another omission seems to be Le Roux van Zyl, I rate this kid, he has skill, power and BMT in my opinion.
Congrats to GW on the strength of there depth to have 22 guys out of 66 throught to the next round, must be doing something right,
@beet isn’t the 15 from Richards Bay meant to be Jaco Pretorius and not J. Gouws?
@Grasshopper:
Of all the things mentioned there, Vidima being a PD is the only thing that he has over Mare and maybe speed.
But, with no selectors there the DHS boys will always be on the backfoot and have to do much more than anyone else to get noticed. Their results don’t help their cause either.
Its no secret that boys from certain schools gget more game time and attention than others!
As for Goodson, I’m speechless. He has been very good for all of the last 4 years and this year is no different. I rate him better than Jaco from Glenwood but sometimes the color of your blazer is the 1st thing seen there…
@Grasshopper:
Of all the things mentioned there, Vidima being a PD is the only thing that he has over Mare and maybe speed.
But, with no selectors there the DHS boys will always be on the backfoot and have to do much more than anyone else to get noticed. Their results don’t help their cause either.
Its no secret that boys from certain schools gget more game time and attention than others!
As for Goodson, I’m speechless. He has been very good for all of the last 4 years and this year is no different. I rate him better than Jaco from Glenwood
@GreenBlooded: I am not angry at Glenwood, my observation is that the selectors seem to think that Goodson would not be in the top 5 there, since I count 5 Glenwood loosies in there. To not be in the top 6 in KZN, right!
Perhaps he is injured, I will find out.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: horsie, how many times must we say it, height is not everything. Guts, determination, skills, speed, strength, awareness, rugby brain etc are key no matter how big or small you are. Dewald Human the Outeniqua flyhalf weighs 65kg but has been running rings around most of the best in SA. Vidima is a utility forward and is PD so probably why he is there. He is keeping out Teichmann and Harmsworth who are much taller than him too…..he obviously has something. Look at Mazibuko, not the biggest but against Paarl Gim he played like a machine, behind Bothma for man of the match…..
Seems the majority of the favorites are there with plenty PD candidates. Maybe College, House and Hilton should form the country and districts team to spread the talent and ensure all talent gets a chance, same case here in the Cape where the Southern suburbs don’t get picked at all…
@BOG: Ou Boggie – I think there will always be an issue with selections. It starts with the Springboks and goes all the way down to my U10 club team. I wouldn’t go so far as to call it immoral – it just goes with the territory.
Another player who seems to have slipped through the cracks is Westville’s Anderson? What happened to him? As an U16 I always rated him up there with Koekemoer, Tedder and Jonas. He played 1st for Westville at Kearsney and I think in other matches during the season.
Sorry, overslept. Should read- “Are we not giving this immoral process CREDIBILITY by—“
I dont know Goodson or what kind of player he is, but there seems a general consensus that he should have been in a team. And Im sure that there are more. And when you get to the U16 side, it gets even worse. I rest my case, but the question is this. Are we not giving this immoral process by discussing it as if we expected anything else. We are talking about the pictures on the walls while the foundations of those walls are crumbling.
The omission of Goodson is a traversty – are we sure he is not injured? He was injured in the last Wildeklawer match and didn’t play against Michaelhouse. Also, I think the anger at Glenwood about this is misdirected – Glenwood only have one No 8 in the 6 teams. I have followed Goodie’s team more closely than any other team since they were U14’s and I don’t recall him ever playing anywhere other than No 8.
Also, think it’d be impressive if Webster made it!!! A DHS boy who started out his HS career at prop, was moved to flyhalf after moving weight in his U16 year where he was drafted to the 1st side. That same year he made the KZN U16A and SA U16 side as a flank and now he’s in a good position to make the KZN U18A side as a flyhalf!!! What talent!!! Special mention deserved!!
Surprised that Mare hasn’t made it here. [edited] Vidima of Glenwood not to mention being about 10cm taller!!!!!
Have a feeling that most of the side will come from that Erasmus vs Moodley game.
Either way…well done to Webster and Peter
@beet: The list above is trying to say that Goodson would only likely make 3rds at Glenwood. Really. It makes you wonder why Glenwood wanted him to move there pre-season in 2012.
@Gungets Tuft: Just like Maseko, I don’t view Goodsen purely as a no.8. I honestly think that looking at DG’s physique, his balance, his speed and his determination – he is ideally suited to the fetcher role. A couple of years back the coaches took Campbell’s no.8 Sibulele Nanto and made him into a good openside flank. I’ll never forget his steals against WP at CW that helped us win that game. 2013 might not have been DG’s year to make the team but he deserves to be at final trials.
@beet: In fact the ommission is so blatantly wrong that I need to look at the names of those U18 selectors and management team again.
What is the link to that again, can’t seem to find it.
@beet: But how many number 8’s are there that cannot even crack their own teams first sides.
That Goodson is not there is a joke, they cannot excuse it.
Somehow, someone forgot to write down the name Darren Goodsen