Using BoishaaiPa’s 4-year (2009-2012) formula driven ranking system, here is a table indicating which festivals the Top 100 rugby schools in South Africa over the period will be attending over Easter.
The up and coming Wildeklawer Super Schools during May and the NWU-Puk Skouspel as well as the recently completed Graeme Rugby Day participants have also been included.
| RANK | SCHOOL | Easter Festival | Wildeklawer | Graeme RD/Pukke |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Grey College | Kearsney | Wildeklawer | |
| 2 | HJS Paarl | St Johns | Wildeklawer | |
| 3 | Affies | M.College 150th | Wildeklawer | |
| 4 | Paarl Gim | Kearsney | Wildeklawer | |
| 5 | Paul Roos | Kearsney | Wildeklawer | |
| 6 | Waterkloof | St Johns | Wildeklawer | |
| 7 | Monument | M.College 150th | Wildeklawer | |
| 8 | Noord-Kaap | M.College 150th | Wildeklawer | Pukke |
| 9 | Outeniqua | Kearsney | Wildeklawer | |
| 10 | Glenwood | Kearsney | Wildeklawer | Pukke |
| 11 | KES | KES | ||
| 12 | Grey HS | M.College 150th | Wildeklawer | Graeme RD |
| 13 | Bishops | St Stithians | ||
| 14 | Selborne | Kearsney | Graeme RD | |
| 15 | St Andrews | St Stithians | Graeme RD | |
| 16 | Boland Landbou | Kearsney | Wildeklawer | |
| 17 | Framesby | Kearsney | Wildeklawer | Pukke |
| 18 | EG Jansen | Kearsney | Wildeklawer | |
| 19 | HTS Drostdy | Wildeklawer | Pukke | |
| 20 | Dale College | M.College 150th | Graeme RD | |
| 21 | Westville | Kearsney | Graeme RD | |
| 22 | Garsfontein | KES | Pukke | |
| 23 | Maritzburg College | M.College 150th | Wildeklawer | |
| 24 | Oakdale | Oakdale | Wildeklawer | |
| 25 | Rondebosch | M.College 150th | ||
| 26 | Tygerberg | Bizsport | ||
| 27 | Florida | Pukke | ||
| 28 | Diamantveld | Oakdale | Wildeklawer | |
| 29 | Marlow | KES | Graeme RD | |
| 30 | Kearsney | Kearsney | ||
| 31 | Michaelhouse | – | ||
| 32 | Centurion | KES | ||
| 33 | Queens College | M.College 150th | Graeme RD | |
| 34 | Wynberg BHS | St Stithians | ||
| 35 | Kempton Park | Bizsport | ||
| 36 | Oudshoorn | Oakdale | ||
| 37 | Hilton | St Stithians | ||
| 38 | Daniel Pienaar | St Johns | ||
| 39 | HTS Middelburg | |||
| 40 | Die Brandwag | Bizsport | Graeme RD | |
| 41 | Sentraal | Oakdale | ||
| 42 | Landboudal | |||
| 43 | Middelburg | Bizsport | ||
| 44 | Punt | |||
| 45 | Ben Vorster | Bizsport | ||
| 46 | Menlopark | KES | ||
| 47 | Nelspruit | St Johns | ||
| 48 | Hentie Cilliers | |||
| 49 | SACS | St Stithians | ||
| 50 | Jim Fouche | Bizsport | ||
| 51 | Hugenote (Well) | Oakdale | ||
| 52 | Pretoria BH | St Stithians | ||
| 53 | Ermelo | |||
| 54 | Pionier | |||
| 55 | Nico Malan | Kearsney | Graeme RD | |
| 56 | Augsburg | Oakdale | ||
| 57 | St Stithians | St Stithians | ||
| 58 | Alberton | |||
| 59 | Voortrekker (Beth) | |||
| 60 | Klerksdorp | Pukke | ||
| 61 | Worcester Gim | Tony Stoops | ||
| 62 | Louis Botha | Oakdale | ||
| 63 | Marais Viljoen | St Johns | ||
| 64 | Potchefstoom Gim | Pukke | ||
| 65 | Rustenburg | Pukke | ||
| 66 | Welkom Gim | |||
| 67 | Transvalia | Pukke | ||
| 68 | Kingswood | KES | Graeme RD | |
| 69 | Kroonstad | |||
| 70 | Helpmekaar | St Stithians | ||
| 71 | De Kuilen | Tony Stoops | ||
| 72 | Stellenberg | Bizsport | ||
| 73 | Strand | Oakdale | ||
| 74 | DHS | M.College 150th | ||
| 75 | Swartland | Tony Stoops | ||
| 76 | Durbanville | |||
| 77 | Upington | |||
| 78 | Duineveld | |||
| 79 | Eldoraigne | KES | ||
| 80 | George Campbell | Bizsport | ||
| 81 | Jeppe | M.College 150th | ||
| 82 | Merensky | Bizsport | ||
| 83 | Northwood | |||
| 84 | Bellville | Oakdale | ||
| 85 | Charlie Hofmeyer | |||
| 86 | Pietersburg | |||
| 87 | Brackenfell | Oakdale | ||
| 88 | Langenhoven Gim | Oakdale | ||
| 89 | St Johns | St Johns | ||
| 90 | Graeme College | Graeme RD | ||
| 91 | Muir College | Graeme RD | ||
| 92 | Fichardpark | |||
| 93 | Parktown | KES | ||
| 94 | Brits | |||
| 95 | Despatch | Tony Stoops | ||
| 96 | St Albans | St Stithians | ||
| 97 | St Benedicts | St Stithians | ||
| 98 | DF Malan | |||
| 99 | Kroonstad (Blouskool) | |||
| 100 | HTS Bellville | |||
| – | Hudson Park | KES | Graeme RD | |
| – | Schoonspruit | St Stithians | ||
| – | Lichtenburg | KES | ||
| – | Itembilihle | Bizsport | ||
| – | Die Anker | Bizsport | ||
| – | Noordheuwel | St Johns | ||
| – | New Orleans | St Johns | ||
| – | Benoni | Bizsport | ||
| Not SA | Trinityhouse | KES | ||
| Not SA | Windhoek | St Stithians | ||
| Not SA | St Johns (Zim) | St Johns | ||
| Not SA | Windhoek Gim | St Johns | ||
| Not SA | Filton (Eng) | St Johns | ||
| Not Sch | Invitation XV | KES | Wildeklawer | |
| Not Sch | RU Invitation XV | St Johns | Wildeklawer |
Just read Tony Stoops site, lost respect for him now calling Glenwood somewhat over-hyped, not sure where he got that from. All Glenwood bloggers have stated we expect a mediocre season and probable 4th in KZN. I hope Glenwood go out and show him what they can do and put up good performances against Paul Roos and Paarl Gim….
@Umtata: cool
@Playa: Nico Malan
@Umtata: Who did the under 14s and 15s play against?
@Queenian: Dale u15A won 25-10 and the 14A won 22-20. So I would like to know what your statement about them being poor is based on.
@Roger: Yep.That team was a special breed.Captained by Grant “Griffy” Griffiths.I’m sure even the Queens faithful admire that team more than their 1984 breed
@Playa: yup – if not the worst, its definitely up there – and 1993 were not a bad team – won more than 60% of their games – Dale must have been incredible
@QC86: Hahahaha!
@Roger: Won 48-0 in 1993. I think that’s KES’s worst ever loss if Im not mistaken.Nothing to be ashamed of as this is the team that recorded 833 points in 22 games.
@QC86: we would ask you to join but none of us played in the sixties
@Playa: I think you gave KES a carrot in 1992 or 1993 as well didn’t you. 1999 — that was Graham Smith’s year – obviously the cricket was better than the rugger ‘cos it was the 2nd worst year in the schools history – won only 2 games
1949 won zero games and 2004 won 3 – eish
@Playa: @Roger: sign of the times when Kes and Dale are talking about the good old days
@Roger: Hahahaha! Such is life.
Yeah, Dale had phenomenon teams from 1990 to 1995. Out of 123 matches played, Dale won 110. Two unbeaten sides (1990 and 1993). ’91 lost 1 game (Selborne), lost 3 in ’92 (Queens, Grey Bloem and Selborne), 3 in ’94 (2 to Selborne and 1 to Grey Bloem) and 2 in ’95 (Boland Landbou and Affies).
Things went sour in 1996 after Mr Deon Boschoff left for St Andrews, then had another great team in 1999 which lost only 1 game by 1 point to Pretoria Boys at St Johns Fest. We beat KES 35-0 that year
@Playa: don’t remind me – played in the pouring rain, Dale leading 7-3, KES are OVER, but no, the ref pings us for holding on, Dale taps and go and scores at the opposite end – game over – sob, sob
Pay back for ’87 I guess
Didn’t Dale have some phenomenal teams in 1992/3/4?
@Roger:
’87 – P18 W15 D1 L1 . The only loss was to KES 7-12
’89 – P17 W13 D1 L3 . Beat KES 11-3 at Saints Festival
@Playa: and ’89 – that’s when we played them at Saints festival.
@Playa: how good were Dale in ’87 – do you have their results?
@Queenian: Dont worry about Dale, this always happens. Dale was written off in 2001 when they won only 8 games out of 22 (all against co-ed schools).Carl Spilhaus was then called up from Dale Junior and got things back on track from 2002-2005.When he left at the end of that season, Dale only managed to win 15 games out of 43 in 2006 & 2007.Grant Griffiths was then called up from the junior school (and Darryl Mauer – Old Queenian and Dale 2nds coach in 1999) in 2008, and Dale improved again winning 62 out of 98 games between 2008 and 2012.
This trend dates back to the 1960’s, a time where Dale rugby was officially put on the map under the leadership of Russel Searle (headmaster and 1XV coach) from 1961 to 1964.The 70’s produced only 2 good sides (’71 and ’75), the 80’s only ’81, ’87 and ’89.
I foresee 2 more seasons of struggle, and we’ll be back again in 2016. But we need to retain our players to achieve that. Thats the worry.
@BOG: Thanks.
@beet: With aging, everything is in stages. Having just looked at the article again, I notice that it is being continued next week as well
@beet: Sorry, I have just seen it. Its editorial@rekord.co.za. Im sure that they will send it to you
@beet: Eish Beet, I was born BC and the mere fact that you are reading something which has been typed by me, is a miracle. Now you want me to “scan”. I thought that meant watching pretty girls, but my eyesight is failing me. Nevertheless, I shall try and get you the e-mail address of the paper later today. The article appeared on the back page under the heading: “Skolerugby kry wind van voor”
@BOG: I am keen to read that article. Is there any chance you can scan and email it to me please?
@Woltrui: Just to add, even though they generally have to be back in PMB by 8:30am, I never struggle to get them out of bed at 6am for a quick hour at the beach. I do struggle to get them off the beach, never failed to have one that was not willing to eat breakfast in the car just to get that hour. It’s small compensation for the extra drive. Just a pity they couldn’t arrive early enough for a lazy afternoon in the ocean.
@Woltrui: Well, we have learned our lesson. Next time wil just shisa nyama and be done with it. I thought for a second they were going to fight my dog for his chow, so badly did they regard the foliage the dinner.
The problem is that the okes arrive in PMB after an 8 hour bus ride, then face another hour hanging on to the lifting rig on my truck all the way to Durban. I do take the dolly off so they have somewhere to stand, but I suppose hanging on with one hand, keeping their kit aboard with the other, can be a little tiring. Vegetarian dinner followed by a family game of scrabble, what’s not to like at Chateau Gungets ???
I do note, after 3 years of doing this, a certain reluctance to be hosted with us, but I put that down to the Afrikaans reserve at being in an Engels home. I am getting a ‘Kaans version of Monopoly, I am sure that will make all the difference.
Don’t say we don’t go out of our way!!
An article on the back page of a Pretoria newspaper, “Record”, writes about the threat to rugby in many of Pretorias schools- mostly primary, but also high schools. Its frightening to hear at how many primary schools, rugby has stopped altogether. The BBs say that they are taking measures to address the situation, but its nevertheless quite sad. I am sure other areas are experiencing the same thing. Not only changing demographics, but also decreasing male teachers at primary level for coaching
@Gungets Tuft: Eish Mr Gungets. There we thought our kids were well looked after in Maritzburg! You can’t feed those boertjie boytjies vegetables! Chuck and Pap boetie, chuck and pap.
@Grasshopper: College nornally “tour” twice a rugby season, we have had a home&away against PBHS every year for a while, the Affies either home or away, KES either home or away. Each tour costs me R400 – R420. The schools all have a good billeting program so most boys are accomodated in peoples homes. Normally the top teams will stay in the BE for a bit of spanbou, but I prefer the billeting, it teaches the kids to get along with “strangers”. Last year was the only time I have ever had a spot of bother. Hosted 3 Affies boys and two of them just would not eat vegetables, and the tjikkin dish Swambo served looked like vegetables to them, had to order pizza.
But anyway, costs, minimal. Experience – very nice, worth every cent.
@kobusdoep: Geen plek vir EG Jansen in jou groep?
Plattelandse skole soos Pietersburg en Ermelo was so 20 jaar terug hond sterk. Jammer om te sien dat veral Pietersburg en Ermelo se rugby so agteruitgegaan het. Verstaan Monnas het ‘n baie sterk O/14 groep?
@Grasshopper: As Roger points out, the cost of playing schools where travel is involved makes it prohibitive to have too many of these fixtures each year – given that you are trying to transport about 25 rugby teams plus the other sports. All the more reason for Glenwood and Westville to get over their issues and introduce home and away fixtures.
In my opinion each school should travel long distance once per year and host once per year. At first team level they can then play the festival games which would add at least 5 games against the far away schools. That is 7 games against out of province schools. More than enough.
@BoishaaiPa: It’s the best we can hope for, that what we have taught them, and the skills they learn at home and school keep them safe. I do know this – kids that have boarded at school are better able to look after themselves after they leave school, and are also much more at risk because they think they know it all. I saw it on the weekend I dropped my daughter off at University – the kids that went to College, Kearsney were styling from the first minute, no nerves and instantly getting on with the others. They were also the most p#ssed, earliest, at the braai and jazz evening on the Sunday. But I like to think, when push comes to shove, that home and school shines in the end.
@Woltrui: Sorry moes gou bietjie werk. Hier is hulle nie in volgorde. Eerste 5 is maklik daarna raak dit moeilik met Menlo, Garsies en Centurion wat nou gevoed word deur Blou Bulle.
Kloof
Affies
Monnas
Kes
HTS Middelburg
Hierna is dit ‘n mengelmoes van
Menlo
Garsies
Centurion
Nelspruit
Florida
PBHS
Probleem is dat baie skole sekere jare goeie spanne het (Hou bv Pietersburg se O/15 groep van hierdie jaar dop, alhoewel hulle ook gemelk gaan word deur Pta skole) maar nie standhoudend jaar na jaar kompeterend is nie. Let wel, ek se kompeterend want niemand wen aanhoudend nie.
@Grasshopper:
stay at home – the Westville and College fixtures are on a home and away basis every year 
Perhaps, perchance, maybe – as I said, this year the fixtures are all arse about face – lets see what next season brings! I am still very much looking forward to Kes vs Affies, Monnas, Westville, College, Marlow and PBHS – 4/6 would be a good return
@Westers: agreed so why keep on playing schools who can’t match your school down the line. Glenwood added Affies and Grey Bloem for this reason. I think both are too strong and we should have looked at KES, PBHS, Grey PE and maybe a big Cape Town school to add to this. We added Monnas this year but they only put out about 15 sides so only benefits the 1st, 2nds and A teams….
@roger, any excuse for KES to stay at home. KES might as well ask to play every game at home as most of your away fixtures are all within 20mins drive. Anyway, we all know KES’s fixtures are a little light (13 games) for the calibre of the school and Glenwood’s is too heavy (22 games), somewhere in between is best 18. Glenwood hosted a number of KES boys for the swimming so maybe a small fire has been lit for future tours or games….
@Grasshopper: Tradition is a good thing but at the end of the day most boys take what a school achieved in their 5 years at the school as being the most important. You are also talking of tradition at a 1st team level. What tradition is there for a boy in an E or F team at Glenwood when it comes to playing DHS. They don’t get a game because of the lack of depth. (It might be the C or D team if there are staggers). In my opinion only stick with tradition if it is not at the expense of all boys getting a game each week.
@Grasshopper: a 10 day tour woukld cost even more I am sure. Look – I don’t know the intricacies of why KES, College and Westville decided to play each other annually other than there is a great deal of respect amongst the schools and they provide each other with hard competitive and clean rugby and hockey fixtures. DHS, Northwood and Hilton have been scrapped but those two continue sosomething is working
@Woltrui: re: Waterkloof – do you then just discount the previous 20 years when they were rubbish? PBHS have been producing top rugby teams for way longer and more consistently than Klofsies and I would back them against any of Menlo Park, Eldoraigne, Centurion and Garsfontein. KES have played HTS Middleburg twice – won one and lost one so beyond that I can’t really comment
@Roger: The last 20 years. Klofies started producing mid 90’s. Roger Pta Boys High not rated as a top top rugby school in Pretoria.
You obviously dont no HTS Middelburg. from 1990 to 2006 Affies played 10 times in the Admin (Beeld trofee) cup finals. HTS middelburg were our opposition 4 times. Waterkloof were the opposition 3 times.
@Roger: playing Westville for 13 years is not exactly traditional. Playing a school for 50 years plus maybe considered traditional. Glenwood have played College, DHS, Michaelhouse and Hilton for over 90 years now that is traditional. Glenwood actually played KES in the 30’s I believe on tour, lost the game. You say costs of traveling are high, yes so why don’t KES do a 10 day KZN tour every other year playing Westville, Glenwood and College along the way. It could be reversed the year after saving travel costs in the next year.
@Woltrui: over what period do you judge that to be the top three? Klofsies were nowhere in the 80’s and early 90’s? As I said, KES has beaten Monnas more times than they have lost and how can you leave out PBHS? In my opinion:
Affies
PBHS
KES
Monnas
Klofsies – with Affies at 1 and Klofsies at 5 and very little between 2, 3 and 4
@Vleis: 99-04 Vleisie – c’mon get it right
with 99 and 04 paticularly bad!
@kobusdoep: Hi Kobusdoep. In die laaste tien jaar het Affies baie teen die genoemde spanne gespeel. Die afgelope 3 jaar baie minder. Vermoed die beleid is om van kompetisies, waar die wen motief oorheersend raak, weg te beweeg.
. Spesifiek vir Noordvaal die afgelope 4 jaar, hoe sal dit daar uitsien.
Spanne speel egter teen dieselfde opponente en aflydings kan gemaak word. Laasjaar het Affies teen Klofies verloor. Affies het egter daarna vir Grey Bloem, Paarl Bois en Paarl Gim gewen. Al 3 die skole het Klofies gewen. Monnas het nie ‘n goeie jaar gehad laasjaar. Verloor teen KES, Paarl Bois en Grey Bloem. Affies het al 3 die skole geklop. My afleiding is dus dat Affies laasjaar die top rugby skool in Noordvaal was.
Ek beskou Monnas, Klofies en Affies as die 3 top rugby skole. Nie noodwendig in spesifieke orde. Enige van die 3 kan ‘n ander op ‘n goeie dag troef.
As jy ‘n top 10 moet kies, in ag geneem dit is ‘n “spurious”(volk#k) debat
Over a long period, like 40 years, then KES must be in the top few of Northvaal. If you take only the past five years, then they are probably still in the top five. It is the period from ’99 to ’08 where they went off the rails that makes assessing them tricky.
On the other hand, I’m not too sure how good Affies were back when I was at school. I remember one year (I think ’87) when my school beat Rondebosch at Rondebosch and then Rondebosch beat Affies at Affies…so there were clearly periods when they were not even as good as a little co-ed English school!!
@Queenian: No idea on the Eastern Cape Schools – never ventured down there unfortunately.
@kobusdoep: agreed – providing a full fixture list is difficult for KES, PBHS, Affies – hence the reason for fixtures like Westville and College.
Also looking forward to KES-Monnas this year – big game
@Gungets Tuft: I am not implying than I have a bad view of Jeppe…I was actually just jolting Woltrui a bit, but the actions of a few can leave the wrong impression. Fortunatly the long and proud history of certain institutions tend to help them overcome any short term embarresment over an incident. It is how you handle those situations that makes the difference.
@GreenBlooded: really like the new Ivan Clarke pavilion, great view down the field and refreshments on hand
@Woltrui: spurious = nonsensical with no winner – in Afrikaans – jy is vol k#k
@Roger: whoops – fat fingers – I mean the Greenies throw that in Westvilles face all the time
@Woltrui: I repeat , this time directly to @woltrui, how often did Affies play these teams favoured by yourself in the past ten years?
@Woltrui: not doubting that at all – at 1st and A team level – and over the last 10-15 years. Would you agree that you need to have been around a bit longer than that to claim any king of track record? You Greenies throw that in Westville’s face all the time
@Roger: if Kes played HTS Middelburg, Centurion, EG Jansen, Nelspruit and KemptonPark you would have known they are quality opposision. Most probably better than the opposition you normally play against. 8)
@Roger: Beeld Trophy (admin cup) is the North Vaal competition but as you stated previously, English schools traditionally, and still don’t, participate and neither do Affies. If I understand it correctly the problem is the number of teams fielded by other schools. Both KES and Affies have many teams and there are only a few schools that can provide a sufficient number of teams to accommodate them.
The debate will rage on forever but it is a real pity that we in North Vaal can not find a way to have the top teams compete against each other on a regular basis.
Looking forward to the KES/Monnas clash this year. Will be a great contest.
@GreenBlooded: And also at the Parry Davis fields at Queens which is basically the B field it has a stand which seats 1200 so not to bad a setup
@GreenBlooded: Try Queens the Rec main stand seats 4850 under roof and another 700 on the old brick stands and that does not count the bleachers if put up on the open side.
@GreenBlooded: Forgot:
Northwood – same as Kearsney – the only covered seating is ereserved for the Northwood boys……..
@Roger: What the @$!&* is a spurious debate? You swearing at us now Rog
@Tjoppa: Seating is a problem at many schools.
Glenwood – ample seating under the school building but obscured by the pillars. Schoolboys across on the bleachers where they should be. Ample seating behind the poles on the one end, Ivan Clark Pavillion on the other.
College – Grass banks on the one side, bleachers on the other side, Kent Pavillion is OK but too far from the field and not big enough.
Westville – ample seating on the one side of Bowdens but not covered.
DHS – ample seating on the one side but not covered
Kearsney – the covered seating on the side of Stott is great but too small particularly when half is taken by the Kearsney Boys who should be across on the bleachers.
Hilton – haven’t been there in years – forgotten.
House – likewise.
There is an interesting topic – which school has the best seating?
@kobusdoep: a spurious debate then – no tournament exists in the Northvaal to decide a clear cut winner every year. All I am saying is that there are schools with a long and proud rugby heritage who have produced many craven week, provincial and international rugby players – this is without doubt – and their rugby heritage goes back waaaay longer than 20 years
As a new blogger I want to add my five cents worth to the Noordvaal debate.
Firstly everybody puts Affies at No. 1. Based on what? How often have they played any of the other schools on the Noordvaal list in the past ten years? They played Waterkloof last year for the first time in a couple of years and I think they lost, they also played KES and narrowly won. When was the last game played against Monnas and when was the last game they won against Monnas? I am not saying they’re not good or do not deserve a spot on the list, but what is it based on?
Secondly I agree KES deserves a (high) spot on the list but same argument there. They do not consistently play teams in this region and makes it difficult to judge. You can not rate them against each other based on performances against Grey and the Cape schools. Derbys are a different kettle of fish altogether.
@Woltrui: Middleburg, EG Jansen, Kempton Park, Menlo Park, Nelspruit – are you serious?? Lets just agree to disagree shall we
@Grasshopper: whoops – the cost of transporting 24 rugby teams and 16 hockey teams and staff plus billeting them etc is too much
@Grasshopper: this season’s fixtures for KES are a f### up – and I have that from the horses mouth. It will be rectified next season as will the Festival fixtures/participating schools – I have that from the horses mouth too.
I think KES started playing annually against Westville in 99/2000.
KES used to play Grey PE annually but only at first team level – if you look at all schools that KES has played twenty or more games against – only two schools have a better win/loss ratio – Grey High and PBHS
Wityh annual tours to KZN I think to extend that to the EC would just be too much to expect of parents w.r.t cost etc
The cost of transporitng
@Roger: Roger if you look at the last 20 years I suspect the list would look something like this?
Affies
Waterkloof
HTS Middelburg
Monnas (4 Traditional strong Noordvaal schools)
EG Jansen, Nelspruit, KES, KemptonPark, Pret BH, MenloPark
@Roger: Westville, traditional? The school is only 50 plus years old and only started playing College on the late 80’s, when did KES start playing Westville down the line? I would guess since 2000. KES only play 13 games this season. If they are looking for down the line fixtures then Grey PE and Glenwood fit the bill….
@Tjoppa: @Woltrui: why limit it to 5 years – surely a schools rugby pedigree goes way beyond that? Half the schools you guys have mentioned hardly go back 30 years? In my opinion, traditonally the strongest rugby schools with a long, outstanding rugby pedigree in the Noordvaal are:
Affies
PBHS
KES
Monnas
Waterkloof (just sneak in – think they were established in the seventies)
@Woltrui: this old debate – KES and Monnas have played 23 time with Kes winning 14 and Monnas 9. The fixture was reinstated last year for the first time since 1999 – gues what – KES won again
Don’t forget that most of the Afrikaans schools in Gauteng are co-ed (besides Affies) and cannot provide a full fixture of 25 plus games. Perhaps Waterkloof is the exception here but then again – they do have over 2000 pupils. Not even Monnas go down to a 5th or E team.
KES has never played in the old administrators cup (NuPower series) and neither has any traditional English school such as Jeppe, PBHS etc. The KES fixture list is based on traditional rivals, out of country teams at the KES festival and the traditonal KZN teams such as College and Westville. The only trans-jukskei teams they play are Affies, St Albans and PBHS (I assume that is what you mean by Noordvaal)
@Woltrui:
1) Affies
2) Waterkloof
3) Monnas
4) Centurion
5) Nelspruit
6) Kempton Park
7) HTS Middelburg
8) Garsfontein
9) KES
10) EG Jansen
@Tjoppa: Tjoppa what is your Noordvaal top 10 list for the past 4 or 5 years?
@Gungets Tuft: Sorry did not leave you out on purpose. Only thing with MC is seating. I hope more stands are available for Wildeklawer. The two will simply not do. I think that we can as a thumb suck rule accept that boy schools is generally well mannered. Never experienced any bad behaviuor from any of them.
@BoishaaiPa: The actions of a few that leave impressions – for sure, but I hope that a long history of gentlemen will overshadow a single act of stupidity. Every school has some, even College. In any school of 1100 boys with high octane testostofuel you are going to get some that explode. It only takes one really, then a few more that can’t resist, and there goes your schools name. College expelled a boy last year for misbehaving on tour, 5 others were caught in the fallout due to the “honour code” of putting your hand up when involved (one kid got completely rat-faced, the others had a sip
). The impact was fairly profoundly though.
College had an incident with a touring school last year (no names, no pack drill) where Clark House (the oldest building on campus – built in 1887) was damaged, honours boards pulled off the walls and the foyer generally defaced. To College it was an isolated incident, not a reflection on the school in general, and very good relations will be maintained.
Now that you are all rushing off to see who toured at College last year, don’t bother, it’s not as obvious as that ..
I have long since learned that boys between 14 and 19 are not to be judged collectively, certainly not under a school banner. But, come to College for Wildeklaver, or on Reunion day, I am sure that our young men will do us proud, as will the visitors from Glenwood.
@BoishaaiPa: So does their parents.
@BoishaaiPa: Boishaai??? So all you Capies hit your wives, drink only from a papsak and burn the vineyards to show a point. Furthermore all is gangster’s with tattoos and have spent at least five years in jail. Every school surely has it fair bit of vrot apples but to generalize like this is not acceptable.
Must agree BH Pta, then Jeppe, KES definitely well mannered schools.
@Kes Dutchie: The problem is KES dont play the top Noordvaal schools on a consistant basis. It is dificult to rate them. Compare that to a HTS Middelburg who played Affies three times in a row for admin cup glorie, who is consistant top 4 Nu power and Beeld troffee team
. To tell you the truth most off the Affies supporters(and some of the players, i think) thought Affies were going to beat KES by 50+ points last year(big mistake). You were just not rated because you dont play the top rugby schools. I would loved to be proof wrong. How many times have you played Monnas the last 5 years and what were the scores?
@Gungets Tuft: My son’s roomate in res at Maties since last year is a PBHS old boy and they get on very well..they have same values and same ethos…dont get me wrong..they are definatly no angels, but the inherent goodness sometimes shines through!…god knows it is very difficult to see some good in a second year student, but sometimes the good old discipline of school kicks in and they prevail!….The Jeppe incident was isolated one , but it still shows that any action of boys can leave an impression of a school!
@Woltrui: @Woltrui: Kes has to be higher up on that list of yours, absolutely no doubt
Not sure about the actual stats but Kes has beaten Monnas on more occassions than Monnas has beaten Kes. From the 70’s up until present date must be definite top 10 in the Noordvaal.
@BoishaaiPa: Ouch!! Praat van naam deur die modder sleep
Elke huis het sy kruis. Oor die algemeen is die Jeppe outjies baie goed gemanierd. Meer as een keer gebeur dat ek van die skoliere vra waar is ‘n badkamer of snoepie. Die outjies sal jou nie net verduidelik, hulle sal jou fisies gaan wys. Buiten die boksers langs die velde is die ander Noordvaal skole nie te vrot. Maar oppas vir die boksers(vermom as pappas met boepies en sagte mammas).
@Gungets Tuft: Pretoria Boys High a great school. School with great spirit. One big pleasure to compete with them.
Does anybody have the squad lists for the teams going to the Kearsney festival .
@BoishaaiPa: I find the PBHS kids the best to host, and my son finds them the best folk to be billeted with as well. Hosting PBHS always has my boy in the front of the line and he always hosts at least the one guy that we have known since Gr8, and he stays with them in Pretoria.
@Woltrui: If trashing a hostel and pissing on the matresses is disciplined boys then I dont want to know what bad behaviour is in the Noordvaal!…ask the Jeppe guys who got send home from Paarl in 2011….
@Kes Dutchie: No doubt KES was one of the big 3 in Noordvaal last year. Last four years for top 10…., maybe no 10
I must say I ‘ve got a soft spot for KES though. Children extremely well manered. With Pretoria BH and Jeppe the best disciplined boys in Noordvaal.
(With cricket and hockey a differant story Duthcie)
@Woltrui: Jis ou Woltrui, toe besluit jy sommer om KES heeltemal uit die top 10 uit te haal
@Queenian: Was quite impressed with the Queens Under14 and Under15 ,s the other day quite alot of talent there the Under14 centre Delano Smith is a very good prospect he is really good.
But i hear the Under16A are shocking this year.
I was quite impressed with Westville last week not to sure were they stand in the KZN pecking order this year but they seem to be a well balanced side.
@Queenian: Even this year i think Queens will do okay they might have made to many errors last Thursday against Brandwag but they should have won that game with ease. There pack is not big but very quick and competitive an excellent 9/10 combo again and a backline which when it clicks will tear anybody apart.
Next game up for them is Affies which again they will give away a big weight advantage but if the backline sort out there errors things could be interesting. I hope Affies have not targeted this game as there easy game at MC150 as they will regret that if they have.
@BOG: My year there were actually 5 which included me that were souties so i think if people think that souties play know part in GCB rugby they are mistaken.
@Hustle: I think Queens as a whole will stay competitive and will have there good and bad years they are just far enough from PE/EL/Bloem to still have a core of boys to keep themselves up there.
Dale i am not sure were to from here only time will tell, hope they can replicate last years team a few more times.
@Hustle: You spot on there since 1998 , 48 Old Queenians kids have played for other big schools first teams and of these 14 have played Craven week.
Just look at this year who is Captain of GCB 1st a Old Queenian son.
@BOG:
@ Grasshopper – would agree, with you I think I would like Glenwood Grey / PE Fixture – disagree with the English Afrikaans debate.
Going back to what Queenian said, Dale had a super year last year, it says to me it is possible that it can be done, and have top 10 years. My feeling is some of the rugby structures have turned there backs on some of these fine institutions instead of developing them within Dale have basically “raped” the schools of talent. When reading through the blogs appears many kids from Queens and Dale have ended up and other schools.
@BOG: I think you misunderstood my post. I wasn’t marginalizing the contribution of the “souties” at GCB at all. Indeed, my son’s cricket coach is English speaking (as is my son and me), so he was relating the story from an English speakers perspective. His coach played 1st team cricket for GCB in Grade 7.
@Clean Rugby: Unfortunately the Bulls are. Apart from winning let us have a look at what was achieved by the Bulls region.
a) Unconfirmed school investigated for supplying steriods to students.
b) TUKS captain admit using steriods to regain Bulls contract.
c) Schools having serious disciplinary problems with imports.
d) Affies and recently Waterkloof refuse to accept imports
e) TUKS guilty of playing illegal players in Varsity Cup
f) Misuse of steriods rife in schools.
g) To the detriment of players contracting everything that shows potential, how did Werner say if I have them nobody else can use them, and kids leaving after u/20 having played maybe a match or two and have to take steriods to be big and fast enough.
I can carry on and on and on.
The evil of money and winning at all cost is reigning up North. What a pity.
@Vleis: The “souties”, consisting of “conventional” English speaking SAs, Jews, Portuguese, Greeks, “Black” SAs, Chinese SAs, Indian SAs and least but not last, Afrikaans speakers, who took English as home language/ first language, make their contribution to rugby at Grey. This year, if Im not mistaken, there are 2 or 3 in the first team.@Queenian: You right, I did not spell it out as clearly as you have. Im sensitve to your feelings
Baie waardeering vir die manne wat die Top 100 lys optrek. Volgens die bg lys is die top 10 skole in die Noordvaal vir die tydperk 2009 tot 2012 as volg:
1. Affies
2. Klofies
3. Monnas
4. KES
5. EG Jansen
6. Garsfontein
7. Florida
8. Centurion
9. Kempton Park
10. HTS Middelburg.
Nie ‘n manier nie. Enige persoon wat Rugby in Noordvaal volg sal besef die lys kan nie korrek wees nie. Garsies het 2, 3 jaar terug met 100 punte teen Klofies verloor en hulle word 6 gesit op die Noordvaal ranglys? Kes het laasjaar ‘n goeie span gehad maar beter as HTS Middelburg? HTS Middelburg is die 1 span wat Affies jaar na jaar probleme gee. HTS het Affies in 2009 in Pretoria gewen.
Die Noordvaal lys behoort soos volg daar uit te sien.
1. Affies
2. Klofies
3. Monnas (Volgorde van 1st 3 plekke debateerbaar)
4. HTS Middelburg
5. EG Jansen
6. Nelspruit
7. Centurion
8. KemptonPark
9. Florida
10. Helpmekaar of Jeugland van KemptonPark
@Clean Rugby: Hi Clean Rugby. I am missing your point. What has Nelspruit’s win over a “high profile school”, to do with buying and placing of children. A reflection on Nelspruit or on the”high profile” school?
(Nelspruit has been winning High profile schools {away from home, mr Editor} on a regular basis for 50 years)
Could not agree more on what is said above. Some schools up north should listen to this. Is this the reason why Nelspruit has beaten a high profile school, or are the union’s behind all of this buying and placing of players? Something seriously wrong if a boy is in the 3rd Highscool since Gr8.
@Tjoppa, agreed on all fronts. Glenwood have the first two sorted, we now just need to stop bringing in players after grade 10…
If I may I would just like to give some advice. If you really want to be a top 20 school consistently try this. Firstly establish a love for rugby. Secondly employ top coaches, the value of a good coach is mostly forgotten or ignored. Thirdly stop this buying of students after grade 8. Show believe in your students and they will repay you with performance. And as history shows your rugby whether English, Afrikaans, Zulu or Xhosa will blossom. If you are at an Indian school then well let say forget about it. Jokes aside the top 10 schools year after year will all admit to adhering to the three rules.
@BOG: @rugbyfan: Ye must be at least 60/40 now days or could you say 60% GCB Boys 40% Queens Boys
@BOG: Ye you are right what i was speaking about sorry was the English class had 29 in each my year so about 34% of the grade the year before me was abnormal i thing only 11 English boys but agree could be 60/40 or 65/35
@Vleis: might well do if I get sports pass – the KES fest on Sat is a no-no – cant even breathe it gets so full and have to wait ages at the beer tent
@Roger: Yes, I will probably be at the Saints festival on all three days. Let me know if you are going, so we can share a beer.
@BOG: My son’s cricket coach attended GCB and he said that one of the highlights of the rugby season (purely from a fun perspective) at Grey was when the two soutie classes played each other. The Afrikaans classes chose which soutie class to cheer for, so there was a great festival atmosphere. He said it was a lot of fun.
@Grasshopper: Yes, I was not just thinking about Afrikaans speakers, but also Zulu and Xhosa speakers. Im guessing, but I would say that more than half of Glenwoods boys, have a home language other than English.@rugbyfan: I think that the years you are using, were exceptions. Any standard at Grey have 4 classes Afrikaans- Gr 12 A1, 2, 3, and 4 and 12 E 1 and 2 and then the English classes generally slightly fuller than the Afrikaans classes. Therefore about a 60-40% split. But both languages gets a 50/50% time at assembly
@Queenian, re MC, I think they have a really good front row, pretty much the KZN front row from last year but lack some height in the locks and No 8. Gungets will know more. Agreed on all your other points. Glenwood have decent sides in all the age groups, maybe not top in KZN in each but top 3 at least…..the future is still pretty bright. I see us hovering around 20th in SA if we can give ourselves a chance and reduce the fixtures to 18, with 3 top 10….
@Queenian: The split at Paul Roos is about 70/30. Certainly not 90/10.
@Grasshopper: Were the hard thing to stomach is the other day at the Graeme day looking at Dale there 1st team really seemed out of there depth at times and the Under14 and 15 looked pretty poor so were does a great institution like this land up, really not good for SA rugby as a whole.
Any idea what MC forwards are like this year.
@Grasshopper: Ye Queens the last 5 years are maybe about around no 25 only last 20 years maybe no 15 and last 100 years year maybe a top 5 or at least till about 1985.
Glenwood i think with the correct planning should be able to maintain a Top 15 finish going forward they must just make sure the grassroots stuff Under14/15 and b/c/d/e/3/4/5/6 is looked after correctly and the rest will fall into place.
@Queenian: Grey Bloem split differs year to year my year at Grey Bloem there were 29 English boys the year behind us only 8 and i do know of some years that there were nearly 40 Engish kids but most years only between 10 and 20 in a Grade
@Queenian, totally agree with you. Glenwood over the past 5 years are probably just top 10 but that is because of 2009 and 2010 results. 2011 and 2012 have been OK and probably would have put us Top 30. Over a hundred or so I would say top 40 is realistic, although we are ranked about 17th for Springboks produced. Anyway, I agree on your theory. Glenwood are not giving themselves their best chance of winning games by playing in 3 almost consecutive top tournaments in Pukke, Kearsney and Wildeklawer, one or two of those must go. Stick with one and concentrate on doing well at that one. Just my opinion…Queens are probably Top 10 or even top 5 over 100 years…
@Roger: Not Dual meduim as such Bishaai maybe 90/10 split Paarl Gym is not dual Meduim and Paul Roos also 90/10 split.
are Boishaai, Paark Gim and Paul Roos dual medium?
@Grasshopper: I agree Glenwood do play against very good teams which will show there true strength although i believe playing against 10 teams all in the top 10 might also have its draw backs for a school which is considered say a top 15/20 school losses week in and week out will not do the kids in the 1st team any good.
Say Glenwood are the naturally a Top 15 to 20 school (Which is about right open to your thoughts on that take the same formula as used above for the last 5 years and you in post no 16) That means if Glenwood play 20 games a year they should play 5 Top 10 teams / 10 Top 11 to 20 Teams / and 5 teams 21+
A school can over do this and this can actually lead to the school going backwards and not forwards
the Saints festival line up looks pretty good this year – all evenly matched schools – might mosey along.
Vleis – will you be sinking the amber brew at Saints?
I think the issue of whether a school is Afrikaans or English is imetarial if they are good at rugby although some might say that if you look at the Top10 rugby schools at least 7 are Afrikaans which is true but just remember that this was influenced alot by what happened after about 1992.
Also remember that 6 out of 10 white boys going to school are Afrikaans and if the post 1992 thing had not happened i would suspect that only 5 or 6 of the top 10 would have been Afrikaans schools which is about what the split is between Afrikaans and English kids.
So i beleive that any body whether English or Afrikaans trying to justify they are better than the other at rugby is a joke to be honest some of the better kids i have seen playing at schoolboy level the last few years were black or coloured so put the theory of any one group being better than the other to bed i think.
@Gungets Tuft: spot on – jesting aside – I think they are mad as well. Perhaps the Greenies close to it can explain why?
@Grasshopper: College tried a fraction of that last year, travelling to Grey PE and then Wildeklaver, straight on to KES. We had 9 first line injuries, including Dan Kriel out for the season. I know it is a team game but can you imagine the difference he would have made in the close games (House by a few, Glenwood drawn twice), and the complexion the year would have had then.
I think Glenwood are completely mad and if I was a parent I would be screaming it from the rooftops, unless I was vicariously silent. There is an agenda that is not centred on the boys. The boys might be up for it – they are in a testosterone froth and will go for anything, but an experienced adult should be intervening. Just my opinion, from a hockey-dad nogal, so use/lose it as you wish.
@Mike, agreed but in Glenwood’s case we over testing ourselves. Playing 10 top 20 sides in a season is just crazy. There needs to be a balance. Glenwood are playing Monnas, Affies, Grey Bloem, Garsfontein, Drostdy, Paarl Gim, Paul Roos, Framesby, Selborne, Paarl Boys and Boland Landbou outside of KZN alone…..madness. 5 of those are in 10 days!
@Grasshopper: I hear what you saying and agree with some of your points, but how are schools meant to improve their rugby if they don’t test their strength against the best every year ?
@BOG: Afrikaans Medium schools parents normally act like a bunch of spanners?
@Gungets, maybe a few. Let’s just say the boys are educated in English and write exams in English unless they writing Afrikaans for obvious reasons. I don’t really care what they speak at home, Glenwood is an English medium school. Our rugby has probably improved with the introduction of Afrikaans speaking kids. Anyway, digging a hole here, my point is we need to be playing schools are similar strength down the line and those happen to be other English speaking schools. Teams losing by 80 plus points to Affies, Grey Bloem etc does no good to them……hence College ending the Grey Bloem fixture after some heavy losses. Glenwood need to rethink their whole fixture list……that is my point probably not expressed properly…
@Grasshopper: Not a single Afrikaans day-boy??? .. And then the number of Zulu/Xhosa home language speakers???
If you have 75% English home speakers I reckon you are doing well. Not that it matters, I would rather have a loyal Afrikaans or Zulu speaker than an English ghost (gone by 3pm).
@Bog, I knew that was coming……difference is 90% of the school are from English families so it’s just a language thing. It’s a fallacy that Glenwood is half Afrikaans, half of the 250 boarders are, so 125 of 1250 kids are Afrikaans first language or home speakers. It also seems that traditionally Afrikaans schools are just stronger at rugby, look at the top 10. Affies, Paarl Gim, Paul Roos, Monnas, Noord Kaap, Grey Bloem, Waterkloof, Outeniqua etc are all either 50% Afrikaans are 100% Afrikaans. If we want competitive and equally matched games then English medium schools should probably play English medium schools as is with traditions and then play the big Afrikaans schools at Wildeklawer or on an ad hoc basis. It’s hard to define these days as schools are mixed. Maybe it should be done based on strength/ranking from the previous year……
@Grasshopper: And how does an “all English medium school”(with half the school from other language backgrounds) differ in tradition and ethos from a “dual medium school” or even from an “all Afrikaans medium school”?
This ranking confirms why I have been punting a KES vs Glenwood and Grey PE vs Glenwood fixture, firstly because they are of similar strength consistently, secondly because they both can put out 25 plus teams on any given Saturday and thirdly they are all English medium schools with similar ethos and traditions.
Tough games for School!