4 KZN players likely to be in u16 HP Squad

After much delay, the SA High Performance under-16 Squad for 2012 is likely to be announced either today or tomorrow.

According to sources 4 KwaZulu-Natal Grant Khomo players, Kurt Webster (DHS, flank), Morne Joubert (Glenwood, centre), Kwazi Khanyile (Glenwood, scrumhalf) and Percy Mngadi (Glenwood, prop) are likely to appear on the list of names released.

121 Comments

  1. That would be a slight consolation for DHS who didn’t have any u18 players chosen for KZN . If its true well done to all but mostly to Webster! Go DHS!!!!!
    All these Glenwood players willve been. Surely offered pre-contracts by the Bullls by now.

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  2. @Horsey: Either you’re really excited or your “L” key is stuck or spelling at DHS is not a strong point… :mrgreen:

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  3. I think a few more KZN boys should have made it. Goodson from college sounds like he had a cracker CW, not to mention College u16 are unbeaten in SA this year…strange selections.

    Webster, what position does he actually play, heard it was hooker then flank, 8th man and fly half….surely he has to settle into a position at this stage of his career.

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  4. @kcob: Up to U15 level he played front row and then appeared at flyhalf /centre for DHS 1sts this year.

    He then got selected as a flank for GK and I recently saw him at centre in a club match – I agree, his coaches need to settle him into a position pretty soon – personally I think he would be best as a loosie.

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  5. @kcob: Does seem a little strange that not a single College boy gets a shout after 2 and a half years of top performance. Perhaps they should bring their HP team to College and give them a run against our U16A, see how they go …

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  6. @kcob
    Yah he’s played all those plus fullback but I do. Agree that they need to find him a proper position that he’ll play in. I do think that he’s best at flank but it will depend on where the school sees him at. I do think that they’ll put him at forwards though since van Zyl will be there at 10, Buthelezi at 12 and Ngubane at 13.

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  7. @Gungets Tuft:
    Wouldn’t be too pretty for College if that happened mate! I do find it strange though that Goodson is not in this squad. He seemed to. Impress at the GK Week. There must be some HUGE TALENTED no.8s out there!!

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  8. @HORSEFLY NO.1: Well, it appears that the selectors believe there is no individual talent in that side worth considering, yet they are unbeaten, and that includes Affies, PBHS, KES for a number of years now. Go figure. Either they are a talented team playing well together or the selectors have missed a trick. It has to be disappointing for the guys in the team.

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  9. @Gungets, agreed it does seem strange. Also strange that no Westville Under16’s made it. BUT the Affies Under16 side in the weakest in the school so most of the bigger schools win that fixture. KES Under16’s are not bad, probably similar strength to Glenwood and PBHS Under16’s are similar…….the benchmark is still Paul Roos, Paarl Gim, Paarl Boys and Grey Bloem at that level…

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  10. Since the official squad has not been announced we might find a few surprises. I’v talked to some of the boys who were at Grant Khomo, and apparently KZN had the smallest 8th men out of the bunch. I also heard Morne was the most consistent back line player, and Kurt was highly rated. I also heard Kwazi was highly praised by former Bok coach Peter De Villiers. I didn’t hear much of Percys performance but he did play 2 of the 3 games due to Steyns injury. I think the College 16 A’s performance this season was lower than last year. We can’t really say they’re the best in S.A. We have not seen them being tested out of the province beside 3 Gauteng schools. They need to play the likes of Grey, the Paarls to see their real strength.

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  11. @Grasshopper:

    just want to gloat and say that DHS U16s were the only KZN team to beat KES. we beat them at u14, didnt play u15 and beat them again this year!!
    Also, College did play Grey Bloem and drew with them 18 all if im not mistaken.@Griffon:
    the samllest yes but surely one of the most talented . He hasnt grown mch since u14 where he was HUGE compared to his mates. their performance wasnt the best yet they are still the only KZN side that went unbeaten this year and have been so for 2 and a hlaf years now. hope DHS u14A can do the same and go unbeaten for the next two years(this year they played 17 won 16 and lost1, would be great if they had just that loss for 3 years) :mrgreen:

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  12. @ Horsy : Yes I agree that the College 16 A’s are the best performing. The thing with most Westville teams is that they’re the smallest at u14 and u15. Then they come at 16 level and end up being the best performing and carry on that momentum. Westvilles 16 A’s next year should be a team to watch like previous years. They suffer the defeat to Glenwood at U14 and U15 then beat them at u16

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  13. @Griffon:
    i have to disagree with that. this years Westvile 16s were huge from u 14 onwards. their forwards were way bigger than everybody elses and that was their strength. their biggest problem then was the backline which was quite average but is obviously good now.

    i do agree with the last part though. Glenwood usually get the biggest boys at u14 who overpower most teams and it was the same this year. even though they did beat us this year i cant see it happening at u15 next year and also u16. the boys wont be overwhelmed by the size of the opposition ever again

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  14. @Griffon: This begs the question … how many of the original U14A’s train on to the U16A’s ? I know this year’s U16A has been strong since U14 .. but what about the 2011 and 2012 intake ?

    From what I saw this year .. the Westville U15A and B’s were equal strength illustrating the depth of talent at the school … maybe this is the key ?

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  15. @ Pedantic : I agree that depth is the key to a successful season, The u15 A and B from Westville is an example. Most of the B team were able to step up and perform at A team level wher the chance arose. The U16 team is also an example with some exceptions. @ Horsy : Ok I agree about the forwards being big since u14, the backline has grown from being average to being the most entertaining backline in Natal. This years u15’s were the smallest team in u14 but with good gym they’ll show more talent

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  16. @Griffon:
    yes your u15s seem to be growing in confidence slowly and will want to stop their 2 year losing streak to Northwood next year.
    just as a matter of interest how have your u14s been this year in terms of size, results, depth etc.

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  17. @ Horsy ; In terms of results they lost to DHS, Kearsney, and College. They’re not the biggest but their work rate is high, I think their season was disrupted due to 6 or 7 injurys to key players, so that’s where depth was tested and the players who were moved up, steped up and did well. They’ve got a very good backline who sometime carry the team. I think the forwards are good but due to injurys other players got shifted from hooker to flank, 8th man to prop etc. I think with a good pre season they can challenge for the number 1 spot

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  18. Wat about college’s opensider hayden tharatt.I think he had a good tournament.

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  19. Tharret should definitely be in the frame for a High Performance Squad selection as he is definitely the standout player in KZN. As for Goodson well,he has definitely grown this season which coupled with his very good turn of speed is one definitely for the future. The two of them will be the platform for a very deadly loose-forward trio at College for the next 2 years unless the boys from the south of Durban come a calling with their chequebooks.

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  20. @Griffon:
    saw them when they played DHS and one of their wings has some enormous pace there! he did cause problems but the others were virtually innefective against a team that was determined on defense. if it were not for an injury at the wrong time and a silly mistake by the ref then the score would have been 19-0 instead of 12-5 which made it look close.
    as for challenging no.1 next year, well if we play like we did this year then i have to say we will be untouchable

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  21. @ Gungets: I heard Hayden played well in the first game, but was injured for the rest of the tournament. I don’t think he was the most dominant loosie in Natal. I think Goodson and Erasmus performed the whole season and I think Meilon from Westville had a good season and was unlucky not to have made it

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  22. @Griffon:
    at the last round of trials meilon was moved to lock so perhaps thats where the kzn selectors saw him.
    another flank who made kzN
    but as non travelling is Tshutsha from DHS. He had a good season.

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  23. Tharatt is the best U16 opensider KZN has. At the 1st round of GK trials he was injured and in the second round he came on for 4 minutes and made 4 steals. If he isn’t the best who is

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  24. An opensider who wasn’t noticed was Josh Murphey from Westville, not the biggest but is good at stealing ball, missed out on trials and most of the season due to his shoulder being dislocated, played against College got injured in the opening phases. I don’t know why the selectors moved Meilon to flank because I’m sure they know he’s never played there and might be to heavy to lift, he’s +100 kgs, explosive and powerful perfect flank

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  25. @ Ntando : I saw him play most saturdays but he had a knee injury where he didny play the College game and some other games. Very good player but I think lazyniss got the better of him a bit

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  26. Ya last year in U15 he was the best player in the team.I thought he was going to play in GK this year. Is Blewett better than him?

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  27. @ntandocollege:
    dont think he went to trials mate. was never in any list for any round . maybe if he works hard he can make u18 in matric

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  28. @ Griffon. Did you see that they have painted the gates of Westville gold. (I wonder why)? What is your connection with Westville as you seem to have a good feel for the age groups. I think we have had the conversation before about the strength of WSPS having an impact on the results at the high school. I am a firm believer in making sure that the link is strong and structures are improved between the schools. You mention Murphey and Meilon. If you add Yuric,Bailey and Warner that is the bulk of the pack and the core of Westville’s success. Add to that two more highway boys in Erasmus and Martin and what more can I say. Team dynamics are so important in achieving the desired results.

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  29. Philani was at Kersney and went to Northwood. He is a good player and a good centre but also lazy and has a suspect attitude to team sports. He will struggle unless taken under his wing by Swys de Bryn at Northwood this next year.

    Anyone heard who may be the fly half in this u16 squad…

    Have not watch too much u16 this year but am interested who played Grant Komo for KZN and how did he fair?

    Also, it sounds this HP Squad might very developmental in its composition.

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  30. @ Star: I’m just an innocent by stander who loves his rugby. I’v also heard that Curtis Jonas( Glenwood 16 A flyhalf) who was the starting flyhalf at GK, got offered to contracts at GK. I think it was Blue Bulls( as usual) and Western Province( where he came from) before moving to Glenwood. I’v heard much hype about his open style of play with excellent hands. I just hope The Sharks can hold onto him. In the u16 age group we’re lucky to have four gifted flyhalfs from Tedder,Jonas, Anderson, and Koekemoer. @ Star : Bailey suffered a bad knee injury last year which saw him miss his u15 and half the u16 season, but he played some B team games, and he’s struggled to find the form he had in u14. He’s in the stayers squad(which has the whole u16 squad as well). We’ll how he progresses next year. @ KCOb : I was informed by Horsy that Philani is at DHS, I also saw him play for the B team against DHS. @ Star : I agree about having a good primary school foundation, Westville must try hold onto to the talent. They’ve lost to players who could’ve been in the u14 next year to Hilton. I think they’re Viljoen brothers they could’ve been useful in both rugby and swimming where they are S.A.

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  31. @kcob:
    Philani. Moved from. Kearsney to Northwood but quickly moved to DHS. Plays very well when he’s not carryingg an attitude and pplayed both. A and B this year.
    @Griffon:
    All schools lose talent from their prep schools to other schools

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  32. With Kearsney having 3 boys in the SA schools team, SA schools representation for the last decade as follows:
    Westville 5
    Kearsney 4
    GW 1
    DHS 1
    MHS 1
    MC 1
    The Highway boys therefore dominate the local scene.
    I did not include Tom and was unable to place J. Straus(2004),K. Ockafor(2007),S. Mxoli(2003) and F. Schetler(2009)

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  33. Glenwood have 4 SA Schools players in the past decade; Petros Methula, Shaun Malton, Jayden Hill & Ricky Schnetler. Tom will be removed the schools records and awards boards…

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  34. College should have had 2 this year, Daniel and Jesse Kriel. Daniel would probably have been selected ahead of Khubeka if fit….

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  35. Glenwood ‘Dream Team’ of current players;

    1. John Roy-Jenkinson (Leopards – SA U20)
    2. Kyle Cooper (Sharks)
    3. Robbie Harris (Leicester Tigers – Sharks)
    4. Brendon Groenewald (Sharks Vodacom Cup)
    5. Nic Strauss (Narbonne – France)
    6. Shaun Adendorff (Bulls U19 – SA U20)
    7. Francois Kleyneins (Sharks Vodacom Cup – SA U20)
    8. Warren Whiteley (Lions)
    9. Matthew Torrance (Scotland U20)
    10. Fred Zeilanga (Sharks Vodacom Cup)
    11. Corne Vermaak (KZN Schools 2012)
    12. Kobus Lourens (Leopards)
    13. Ian Adendorff (Blitzbokke)
    14. Dean Moolman (Bulls U19)
    15. Greg Manning (Manly Rugby Club – Sydney, Australia)

    Reserves
    16. Dexter Fahey (Sharks Academy – Shimlas Varsity Cup)
    17. Peter Zsitvai (Hungary)
    18. Alwyn Janse Van Rensburg (Sharks U19)
    19. Nanyak Dala (Canada)
    20. Meyrick Walker (Bulls U19)
    21. Shaun Malton (Sharks U21 – Saracens)
    22. Dean Muir (Sharks Vodacom Cup)
    23. Brian Shabangu (Blitzbokke)
    24. Deucullen van der Merwe (Sharks U19)
    25. Wade Elliot (Sharks U19)

    This side would give most a good run for their money……

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  36. @ Star : S. Mxoli was at DHS where he was a legend there. I know he’s coaching at Westville now, he coached the 16 B last year and 14 B this year. I’v heard from some of the boys that he pushes them hard on the field and in gym, but not to any extremes

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  37. @star: Kene Okafor and Johan Strauss were both at Kearsney. Kene was in the Sharks Academy for a while but moved to the Lions last year. I’m not sure if he still has a contract with them tho. Johan was a player with tremendous potential but sadly had to retire from rugby after contracting a brain disease if memory serves me correctly.

    Sangoli Mxoli was once a highly rated prop. He was at DHS. I think he’s with Border now.
    Schetler was a lock from Glenwood. His name surfaced in the Leopards junior teams up to last year. Not sure what’s happened to him in 2012?

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  38. @Grassy- I got the info from from the 365 blog. They do not list Methula or Hill. (but still Tom)
    For Westville

    1 Dale Chadwick -Sharks
    2 Monde Hadebe- Sharks
    3 N. Mkize-SA Schools-Natal U21
    4 G.Earle- Cheetahs
    5
    6.K. Majola- SA U20
    7.B. Stander- Natal U21
    8
    9 Van Zyl -Lions
    10 D. Campbell-KZN U21
    11.K. Boulle- Natal Academy
    12 K. Fisher -Natal U21
    13 W.Murray-Lions/Springbok
    14 T. Fisher -SA Schools/KZN U19
    15C-Micklewood- SA Schools
    This is a W-I-P. I need a lock and no 8. I think the Lions substitute 9 is a Westville boy. I think currently MHS would have the top team with Lambie,Cilliers, Richardson,the Cronje twins ect.

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  39. @ntandocollege: I’d like to agree with this to an extent. The Bulls are gonna hurt SA rugby very badly IMHO because they are hoarding talent and will stunt the development of many promising junior players. Already this year’s u19 Currie Cup compo has been robbed of quality because some very good players cannot make the Bulls starting lineup. There are just too many good players in their camp. A good example is at lock were teams like the Sharks and WP to make do with short players eg 1.93m (Hazelhurst and Fisher) and 1.86m (Odendaal). However before pointing the finger solely at the Bulls, consideration also has to be given to unions like the Sharks and WP, who are playing their part in the ruining by not upping their recruitment game sufficiently to at least match the efforts of the Bulls.

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  40. @star: What about old Dieter Kreuse. Digging holes to build more seating for rugby but not good enough for the Westville team :mrgreen:

    Errol Stewart???
    Roland de Marigny?

    Or is this just a last 10 years team?

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  41. The next question, which KZN school has had the most SA Under20 players, Glenwood have had three in the past 5 years, Shaun Adendorff, Francois Kleyneins and John-Roy Jenkinson. We also had a Scotland Under20 player at this years tourno, Matt Torrence. Overall SA Schools players for Glenwood;

    Derek La Marque (1979 – Captain – No8)
    Dennis Baronet (1985 -centre)
    Petros Methula (2001 – prop)
    Jaydon Hill (2002 – lock)
    Shaun Malton (2008 – hooker)
    Ricky Schnetler (2009 – lock)

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  42. @ntandocollege:
    Absolutely utter rubbish!!
    Bulls scouts on form other unions way behind we did not force any player to join us SBR players just want to wear the blue jersey :) .

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  43. @ntandocollege: Total list for College

    1974 MK Thompson, BV White
    1976 PJ Lindsay
    1977 PJ Lindsay (c) (The list says 1975 as well but I am not so sure about that)
    1978 DJ Mills
    1979 CM Jamieson
    1984 JT Stransky
    1985 SR Glover
    1986 JRD Thomson
    1987 BW Catterall (c), UH Goedeke, DAG Reed, WG Wilson
    1989 CD Mayer
    1994 WGA Munn
    1995 PJ Dixon (c)
    1996 RC Kelly (c)
    1997 RF Linde
    2002 PJ Grant, EA Penzhorn, B Squires
    2012 J Kriel (Honourable mention for Dan Kriel… surely :wink: )

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  44. @Muzi u guys buy way too many players and then u get rid of them when they’re 22. E.g you jst bought handre pollard yet u already have 2 young flyhalf tony jantjies, louis fouche, lionel cronje (might play fullback). You have 4 young centre’s jan serfontein, francois venter , daniel kriel, william small-smith,

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  45. @ Ntando : I agree with you fully, with regards to flyhalfs you also missed out the talented Josh Stander. Bulls have signed the last 3 yeard of S.A schools centres. How are these boys supposed to make it if there guys who have made the same things they did, but have 3 years more experience. Where are these guys going to go, to many signing that you don’t make use of, here’s another examp
    le, D. Adongo big, powerfull and strong. This guy should’ve have definantly made his super rugby debut, when the Bulls had a lock problem early in the season

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  46. @ Grassy- You gave the link for the SA Schools list. Did you find Hill and Methula? In any event I was referring to the last decade which I believe starts in 2003.
    College therefore has one player in Kriel and GW 2(Malton and Schnetler). The list is now headed by Kearsney on 6 and Westville on 5.
    @ Beet My team is for current players to take on Grassy’s Green Machine. I am still looking for a lock and no 8.

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  47. @star: Dates work out perfectly then. Why not exclude this year, because it is not finished, then College have none and Kearsney only 3. Of course it would boost Glenwood because Tom would still be there … :roll:

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  48. @Gungets- The rugby year is over I believe and a decade is a defined period. If I exclude this year then Westville tops the list. Now that would be perfect

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  49. @star: Aggg, thats OK. College still have the most SA Schools reps whose initials are P.J. so we are fine. Imagine how much money College is going to have to spend buying good players with the right initials. We might have to start at the maternity wards, chatting to the moms who have really long labour with monster boys. Pay them to name them correctly – perhaps we can sponsor Red, Black and White baby-grows ….

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  50. @ Star: I think you should include Jackson Buthelezi at 6, move Stander to 8 and put Majola at 7. I think D. Kelly who was 1st captain in 2010 should be in the team very talented player he’s playing 7’s for sharks. As for lock I think M. Van Aswegen should be your other he played 1st in 2009 and is currently at Sharks academy and is playing for Varsity Old Boys

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  51. @Griffon: Talking about scrumhalves, I think the Lions guy star had isn’t van Zyl, it’s meant to be Tian Meyer.

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  52. @ Griffon/Beet- I was not sure about the Lions SH- Thanks guys. We can have Kelly on the bench and I believe Sithole is playing for WP U21 and so can also warm the bench as front row cover. I think that team would give Grassy and his GW team a good run.

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  53. @star: Yes Sthe Sithole is going very well for himself. He has replaced Glenwood and KZN Schools captain Niel Oelofse in the WP u19 starting lineup in recent weeks.

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  54. @Star, yep both Petros and Jaydon are listed, just names are spelt wrong there. They list them as Jaydon Hull and Petros Mthula.

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  55. I just checked the list again and only 63 KZN players have been picked since 1974! That is an average of 1.66 players per year, NOT great really. Here is the full list with schools

    Barker, Michael (Natal), 1978 – DHS
    Baronet, Dennis (Natal), 1985 – Glenwood
    Barritt, Bradley (KwaZulu Natal), 2004 – Kearsney
    Beukes, Chris (Natal), 1990 – DHS
    Breedt, Nico (KwaZulu Natal), 1998 – Kearsney
    Cattrell, Brenton (Natal), 1987 – College
    Chadwick, Dale (KwaZulu Natal), 2007 – Westville
    Dixon, Pieter (Natal), 1995 – College
    Du Plessis, Pierre (Natal), 1987 – Port Natal
    du Preez, Daniel (KwaZulu Natal), 2012 – Kearsney
    du Preez, Jean-Luc (KwaZulu Natal), 2012 – Kearsney
    Edgar, David (KwaZulu Natal), 2001 – Michaelhouse
    Fisher, Tyler (KwaZulu Natal), 2011 – Westville
    Flanagan, Sean (KwaZulu Natal), 1999 – Westville
    Fourie, Kenneth (Natal), 1994 – Port Shepstone
    Fynn, Etienne (Natal), 1990 – St Charles
    Gage, Shaun (Natal), 1984 – DHS
    Glover, Shaun (Natal), 1985 – College
    Goedeke, Frank (Natal), 1990 – College
    Goedeke, Udo (Natal), 1987 – College
    Goosen, Gregory (KwaZulu Natal), 2001 – Kearsney
    Grant, Peter (KwaZulu Natal), 2002 – College
    Hankinson, Rob (Natal), 1974-75 – Michaelhouse
    Hargreaves, Alistair (KwaZulu Natal), 2004 – DHS
    Hopkins, Clifford (Natal), 1979 – Kearsney
    HIll, Jaydon (KwaZulu Natal), 2002 – Glenwood
    Jamieson, Craig (Natal), 1979 – College
    Jankowitz, Anton (Natal), 1989 – Hilton
    Kelly, Richard (Natal), 1996 – College
    Khubeka, Sandile (KwaZulu Natal), 2012 – Kearsney
    Kriel, Jesse (KwaZulu Natal), 2012 – College
    Lambie, Patrick (KwaZulu Natal), 2007-08 – Michaelhouse
    Le Marque, Derek (Natal), 1979 – Glenwood
    Linde, Rob (Natal), 1997 – College
    Lindsay, Paul (Natal), 1975-77 – College
    Majola, Khaya (KwaZulu Natal), 2010 – Westville
    Malton, Shaun (KwaZulu Natal), 2008 – Glenwood
    Martyn, Angus (Natal), 1998 – Michaelhouse
    Meyer, Clinton (Natal), 1989 – College
    Micklewood, Christopher (KwaZulu Natal), 2005 – Westville
    Mills, David (Natal), 1978 – College
    Mkize, Njabulo (Kwa Zulu Natal), 2008 – Westville
    Mthula, Petros (KwaZulu Natal), 2001 – Glenwood
    Munn, Wayne (Natal), 1994 – College
    Mxoli, Sangoni (KwaZulu Natal), 2003 – DHS
    Ockafor, Keven (KwaZulu Natal), 2007 – Kearsney
    Penzhorn, Adrian (KwaZulu Natal), 2002 – College
    Rathbone, Clyde (KwaZulu Natal), 1999 – Kingsway
    Reid, Grant (Natal), 1987 – College
    Rich, Rockey (Natal), 1975 – Kearsney
    Schnetler, Fredrick (KwaZulu Natal), 2009 – Glenwood
    Skinstad, Bob (Natal), 1994 – Hilton
    Squires, Brandon (KwaZulu Natal), 2002 – College
    Stewart, Errol (Natal), 1987 – Westville
    Stransky, Joel (Natal), 1984 – College
    Strauss, Johan (KwaZulu Natal), 2004 – Kearsney
    Thompson, Malcolm (Natal), 1974-75 – College
    Thomson, Jeremy (Natal), 1986 – College
    Tom, Siyabonga (KwaZulu Natal), 2011 – Glenwood
    Van Rooyen, Leon (Natal), 1987 – Estcourt
    White, Bruce (Natal), 1974-75 – College
    Wilson, Warren (Natal), 1987 – College
    Zaltsman, Neil (Natal), 1985 – Northlands

    DHS – 5
    Glenwood – 7 (6 is better because Tom should be stripped)
    College – 22
    Kearsney – 10
    Westville – 7
    Hilton – 2
    Michaelhouse – 4
    Port Shepstone – 1
    Port Natal – 1
    Estcourt – 1
    Kingsway – 1
    St Charles – 1
    Northlands – 1
    Total: 63

    This clearly indicates that College are the greatest rugby school in KZN!

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  56. @ Grassy- I am not for one minute saying that College are not historically the greatest rugby school. Still today they play with a pride and determination that a lot of schools could learn from and is invariably the difference between the sides.I am just looking at current trends to determine whether the playing field has become more even than we think.In the last 10 years MC have had one player which represents 5 % of their total reps. Westville on the otherhand have had 5 which translates to 71 %. I think GW will also be weighted positively to current developments. It just means that the big schools are getting closer which should make SBR more competitive. We just need DHS and Northwood to come to the party and it seems they are making the correct strategic moves at this stage.

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  57. @star: Oi star, what does hat equate to for Kearsney, I mean, how have their % representations in recent years…shot

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  58. @kcob: Since 1995 there have been ±404 SA Schools Reps. 32 were from KZN = 8%, of those 8 were from Kearsney.

    But there are so many factors that go into SA Schools selection + many of the players that make the grade would have made it irrespective of the school they attended IMHO.

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  59. @ kcob- There have been 6 Kearsney SA reps in the last decade which if Grassy’s no is correct equates to 60 %. Defintely the highway area has produced more than its fair share in recent years.
    @ beet- I still think the school can add some weight to SA schools selection. The structures and culture defintely have a bearing on performance. Look at the Westville swimmers and what has been achieved at school level. It defintely can carry over to higher honors.

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  60. @star: Star, I’ll rephase: I honestly believe that Jesse Kriel, Sandile Khubeka and the DuP twins would have made SA Schools irrespective of whether they attended Kearsney, Westville, Glenwood, College, Hilton or Michaelhouse since Gr.8.

    I fully agree with you on the school playing an important role in a sportman’s development, however I tend to believe that there is so little to choose between the rugby programmes run by the leading 6 rugby schools in the province at the moment, that when it comes to judging the success (or shortcomings) of each school, one need to focus more on how the school goes about extracting max benefit for average players rather than basing it on the gifted few that are destined for higher honours anyway.

    IMO Westville have done fantastic work for swimming. They have worked hard, set the bar very high and are now reaping some of the rewards. However when Westville are able to turn Joe Bloggs into an Olympic medalist then that would be an extra special day in the school’s history . But for now if a Crawford College boy from Pretoria can also win a gold medal, it tells me that with elite sportsmen, there’s a lot more to success than what the school has to offer.

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  61. @Beet, totally agree. The Doops are super talented and would have made SA Schools attending any of the top 10 schools. In fact they were heading to Westville so Westville could have had 2 more SA Schools players this year. Kearsney have done very well with regards to SA Schools players considering it’s small numbers, but that would indicate brilliant individuals rather than brilliant teams. These talented kids have been brought in/attracted by bursaries. This can be shown by Kearsney’s results against the 5 traditional schools (DHS, Glenwood, College, Hilton and Michaelhouse), not great in the past 25 years. Kearsney, not by it’s own fault, is a great A team school because they can attract an elite few. It’s when Kearsney’s B, C and D sides start doing well will it reflect on superior structures and coaching. But due to small numbers this may never materialise. But looking ate Glenwood, they have improved at all levels in the past decade, the results at Affies show this. 10 years ago most Glenwood sides would have been beaten by an average of 60 points, not so these days. Westville and College are the same, improving at grass roots level. If my son was an average rugga player I would prefer him playing at either of these 3 schools than at Kearsney…..just my honest opinion..

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  62. @Grasshopper: There are a lot of what if’s in all sports. Yes this guy could have gone to that school or this ref could have spotted that forward pass etc etc. All the schools including Grey College are offering bursaries whether its directly or indirectly, its still amounts to a financial package to get a talent sportsman to go to a school. Its no longer a private school thing. No KZN high school public or private can claim rights to a primary school youngster for any reason whatsoever.

    Anyway my point above wasn’t really about B,C or D teams in general but rather A-team players and/or developing players to succeed at A-team level. Within our A-teams there are perhaps one or two star players that will achieve higher honours and do well in the sport after school. Then there are those that hold there own and finally fringe players. I’m saying that the measure of success is what you achieve with the the guys in the middle and the fringe players. These two groups usually make up the majority of most teams in KZN. For example Sthe Sithole, the current WP u19 prop is a huge Westville success story IMO. I don’t think there would have been that much money riding on him being a junior Currie Cup starter this year round about March 2011. Mzizi Zondi is another success. So is Michael Downer. Guys who have lifted their games to new heights with the help of the coaching programme in place at Westville. Kearsney has a few similar egs, the best one that comes to mind is the hooker Jordan Meaker who was the u16C hooker last year and first team hooker for the 2nd half of 2012. This is a far better measure of success than SA Schools representatives.

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  63. @Beet, agreed. Kyle Cooper is a good example of this at Glenwood, a fringe player ending up ahead of those chosen for SA schools eg Shaun Malton. Shaun Adendorff is another……for me success should be guaged by how many 1st/2nd team players end up playing professionally. John Allan is another, he only played 2nd team at school. Glenwood, Westville, Michaelhouse, Kearsney and College are producing many provincial level players so they all must be doing something right..

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  64. @beet: Msizi Zondi is a perfect example of what is being discussed on another thread – he has benefited hugely from hard work in the gym!

    I first saw him at U15 trials a few years ago as a wing – not very big – had the right attitude and I urged him to go looking for work in the next chukka – he was ultimately selected as a wing that year. The next year I saw him at U16 trials and he was almost unrecognisable, bulked up hugely and was selected as a loosie … now he’s a mobile front row – all from really hard work in the gym (and on his skills of course). Great kid!

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  65. @ Pedantic- I have just been told that Msizi won the open 100m at Westville(the next Bolt). Not bad for a front row player. Agreed he is a great kid and I wish him all the best for his future.
    @ beet- I see that Kearsney won some gold medals for their singing attributes. If one of the boys goes on to win Idols and becomes a pop star I think that Kearsney must claim some credit. Nothing in isolation.

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  66. @star: Matt Stevens came 2nd in xFactor Battle Of The Stars – winning over 1,5 million for the Nelson Mandela children’s fund.

    Kearsney 1st XV captain Jono Deighton was part of the choir that won 2 golds in Cincinnati along with a few other 1st XV players and both U15A and U16A captains – macho muzos at Kearsney :)

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  67. @star: Hey I never said achievements by outstanding to begin with scholars should ever stop a school from claiming some credit. :)

    The other extreme is when a former student goes off the rails and does something really bad, then you don’t ever hear of schools accepting part responsibility. :-|

    e.g. Just imagine College saying “Kevin we should have tried harder to make you into a player that’s less of a distraction to a team and wiser with his public comments, we’re sorry” :mrgreen:

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  68. Come on guys, you need to be impartial here. There is a definite A team scenario at most of the private schools in KZN. Get in the most talented 15 players possible to ensure the marketing of the school can use positive results at 1st team level. 2011 and 2012 saw Kearsney lose almost every game on the day against the bigger schools and then win at 1st team level. You always get the idiotic comment “We only have 500 boys to your 1000”. Well you can only put 15 boys on the park and if a school has managed to beat the other schools to top players then they will win. Just by the nature of the level of fees at private schools, the amount these boys are ‘getting’ is far more than at a govt school. es, everyone seems to have some sort of recruitment system but the PVT schools are hitting it hard. Hilton are now doing it for Grade 11’s which is wrong in my book. The Du Preez twins looked at quite a few schools and decided to go with their brother. They have a huge influence on the ability of the Kearsney team. When the pvt schools are winning at least 30% of their games throughout a day then the chirp regarding no of boys etc can be used. At the moment it is about who is attracting what and how. Nothing more nothing less.

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  69. @All Black: I hear what you’re saying and agree to a point, but also remember that the larger schools (in terms of numbers) can also offer a lot more than 15 scholarships.

    A case in point … Westville 2011 intake reportedly had over 70 boys on scholarships (granted, these would be across the board and not only rugby related, but generally above average sportsmen are multi talented) – Kearsney’s full intake was 90 odd in the same year with less than 60 of those participating in rugby – interestingly enough, I think there was only 1 rugby scholarship and that boy has since moved.

    The example above illustrates the depth that Westville would have access to and can’t possibly be compared to the Kearsney intake.

    It’s not 500 boys vs 1400 – it’s 70 above average sportsmen vs maybe 10 – hence the lack of depth.

    This is only one comparison … I’m sure there could be many arguments for and against, but this is food for thought and puts the gvt vs private argument into perspective.

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  70. @Pedantic: Where is a govt school going to get the money for 15 scholarships? Certainly not the case at College. Next years Kearsney Grade 12’s have at least 7 rugby scholarship boys and they are just the boys I know. They may call them other things but it all comes down to the same thing. Cant comment on other schools but College have limited bursaries available and a very strict criterea re academics, support base from family etc. Just because you are a good rugby player does not mean you will get in to College.

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  71. @All Black: I think College is an anomaly in this whole school circus – they market themselves as “private school facilities at govt school prices” which is pretty accurate IMHO. Can’t really compare College to Glenwood, DHS, Westville etc. – it’s in a different category for many reasons.

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  72. @ Beet. You mentioned young Meaker. His father played 1st team hooker and 2 of his uncles played 1st team with me and one was a hooker. You know my position on good genes(just kidding). There is no one reason why he has improved so much. It is a puzzle that confounds and inspires. And with regard to schools taking responsibility, is there not a school that has the record for the most headboys who have been convicted of white collar crimes. All good fun.

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  73. @beet: Beet, that is a low blow.

    KP was relegated to 2nd team at College. He even went public on his dislike for certain coaches who didn’t take his ‘outspokeness’.
    Wish he would just learn to keep quiet and play the game.

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  74. @All Black: I apologise to College. But it wasn’t meant in bad taste. Just the first player who came to mind coz he’s in the news right now. Guess I could have mentioned an English rugby player with a drug addiction come to think of it.

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  75. @beet: Relax. Just joking. Dont start on the drugs, you may have to mention a lot more than you think.

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  76. This is actually very strange that the prop of KZN is mentioned. He played against my son who is also a prop, he made a lot of mistakes and it was blown for by the referee. My son on the other hand did not make any mistakes. In that same game he played on both sides 1 and 3. This is excellent and I hope that somebody had seen this!!! WP was seen as the winners of the tournament, but EP was also winners. They were 1 of the 2 teams that was unbeaten!!!!! Good luck to each and every boy.

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  77. I think the issue is more disguised then you think, Hilton ensure that old boys pay for the sponsored player, this isn’t then reflected as a scholarship , this practice happens at most private schools, and doesn’t at the government schools

    Also to consider is the value of a scholarship, the cost of one Kearsney scholarship is 3 full time boarder and school fees at Glenwood, so if they have 6 – 7 just in the 1st team this would potentially buy a team and a half at Glenwood

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  78. Bursaries and Scholarships – I believe Glenwood give out 35 of these annually. Remember a bursary is usually for sport and scholarship for academics. I get the debate about 10 great sportsman vs 70, but those 10 at private schools are usually the cream (eg Doops). The Gov schools then have to fight it out for the rest, so those 70 at each Gov school are usually the group just below the cream. Kearsney, Hilton and Michaelhouse can select the cream, offer them partial or full bursaries and then have a decent A team in most sports. Glenwood results vs the private KZN Schools;

    vs Kearsney at home (games staggered after B team)
    Played: 19
    Won: 17
    Lost: 2 – 1st team and Under16B

    vs Michaelhouse at home ( games staggered after B team)
    Played: 19
    Won: 19

    vs Hilton away (games staggered after C team)
    Played: 21
    Won: 13
    Lost: 6
    Drew: 2

    So in total that is played 59, won 49, lost 8, drew 2 or 83% win rate. It seems to indicate of the 3 big private schools Hilton are the strongest but that could be down to the games being played away. Again if my kid was just an average player he would be going to a good gov school like Glenwood, College or Westville as it seems the private schools concentrate on the elite only..

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  79. @Grasshopper: well if you look at What Hilton started doing a year or so ago in purchasing Players and Coaches and recent aquisition of the GW player , we can see thsi in the results

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  80. 70 boys on scholarship in a single grade!! now thats desperate to get to the top!! would love to know how many DHS offer, probably close to the 30’s.

    @ grasshopper
    yah Glenwood have improved loads in the last few years in their lower sides. this though can be done by first improving the A sides and getting consistently good results. boys will soon want to move to the school with the good A teams which is what happened at Glenwood. DHS are currently trying to do the same thing except that instead of focusing on one sport first they are taking the all rounded approach straight away.

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  81. @Grasshopper: hopper, your comments about sending your son to a good gvt school if he was an average rugby player. Surely this would be if you only wanted him to play sport or rugby in particular. Something must be said for the private schools and the ability for them to afford a more personalized education all-round. My son for instance was a hard worker and went from something like 88 in the grade to 28th (his highest achieved).

    For sure, I think the gvt schools are doing a great job all round, and of course they have huge numbers which make up their depth, but the pvt schools in all likely attract a very small % of top achievers across both the sports fields and the classrooms, primarily because it costs damn much!

    I think the private schools have always had a more topsey turvy performance from year to year has the bursary funds become available, where as I always believe the gvt schools have always been strong. What I think is happening is that the private schools are probably improving their coaching over the last 20 or so years, and as a consequence, the A string teams have benefited and are generally now competitive.

    Also, what may be happening, is that financial, demographic and educational pressures are influencing parents who would ordinarily sent their kids to their old schools, now are looking to the private schools…just a thought.

    Having bantered on; I don’t think the private schools should ever be measured against a massive government school by comparing the number of matches versus the win/loss ratio as they simply have about 25% of the kids to choose from.

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  82. @Horsie, incorrect on the one sport. Glenwood are more than competitive at hockey, cricket, baseball, softball, squash, swimming, waterpolo, cross country, athletics and so on. Good rugby players usually make good athletes. Glenwood offer 30 odd bursaries/scholarships and the natural attraction of successful teams does the rest…..

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  83. Ok, putting it out there, were there any stand out no 10’s in the u16’s this year?
    No-one has been talking out the Grant Komo no 10 or who may have made the HP squad At no 10.

    As a matter of interest, did any u16’s play 1st XV this year. I notice none out of the schools whom attended the Kearsney Festival.

    any Grade 11’s gonna be wearing their 1st XV no 10 this coming year?

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  84. @kcob: I wouldn’t rule out Koekamoer of College, Jonas of Glenwood or even Anderson of Westville playing first team at 10 in 2013.

    I know Tedder of Kearsney, Webster + Peter of DHS and Joubert of Glenwood were u16s in 1st team this year

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  85. I heard the Glenwood Under16 flyhalf played against College 1st this year as Warren Potgieter could not pass a late fitness test. Not sure what the kids name is…

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  86. @grassy
    I mean it in a sense of that’s how they started before trying to become all rounded. Glenwood started out with a focus in rugga but in the last couple of years have started being good in things like hockey and even swimming more recently.

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  87. @beet: Plenty of good 10’s coming through the system. Koekemoer is my bet if he remains injury free. Quite frankly, the best 10 (potential) I have seen from the lower age groups is Kriel in U15. He is starting to grow like his brothers and has an educated boot not seen at age group level for many a year. Against Glenwood he had them pinned in the corners with kicks of 50m plus. I like Anderson of Westville and the Glenwood U16 fellow who played against College seemed to have a lot of time. Have to judge 10’s when they do not have a dominant pack.

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  88. @All Black: Koekemoer is an excellent all round #10 with great distribution, an eye for a gap and solid boot, powerful in defence too.

    I haven’t seen enough of the younger Kriel to comment.

    I still think they all have to pass the acid test at 1st team level – something that Tedder has already done impressively in 2012, so at this stage he must be the front-runner.

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  89. @Brum, great article that. I wonder in NZ check the age of their kids playing, because they could have the same issue as KZN schools had this year. I’m not implying that this side was over aged, but they must have been something to smash everyone like they did. College were very strong in the early to mid 90’s with players like Pieter Dixon, Wayne Munn, Geoff Appleford, Rob Linde, Matt Frank, Trevor Boynton, Richard Kelly etc…

    I think Gisborne played at Kearsney Fest in 1996 and came unstuck against a brilliant Affies side. I stand to be corrected. I played at that Kearsney tourno and so did John Smit for Pretoria Boys High….great memories..

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  90. http://www.kearsney.com/joomla/files/KEARSNEY%20COLLEGE%20RUGBY%20UPDATE.pdf

    The team in 1996 will probably be best remembered for its 27 – 12 win against Bishops at the
    Independent Schools’ Festival in Cape Town. This was the School’s first victory in a 10 game series that goes back to 1956. The other event of real note was the International Rugby Festival held at the end of July when Gisborne High School from New Zealand, Campbell College from Northern Ireland, Tonbridge School from England, Pretoria Boys High School, Afrikaanse Hoërskool ( Pretoria) joined Maritzburg College, Glenwood High School and Kearsney, who were the hosts, in certainly one of the best organised sports events ever held at the College. The immense amount of preparation for festival week was more than rewarded by the spectacular rugby played by the teams. The spectators had a surfeit of rugby with six games being played on each day culminating in four of the strongest sides being matched against each other on the last day. “Affies” managed a close win over Tonbridge who
    had played wonderful rugby particularly considering they had not yet started their rugby season. Maritzburg College playing some of the most disciplined and attractive rugby over the week, beat a very powerful Gisborne side and in doing so avenged a defeat they had sustained three years earlier in the Schools’ World Cup in Australia.

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  91. College beat Gisborne at Kearsney in 1996.

    Pedantic; No arguments re Tedder. Going to be interesting year next year. Would like to see the Kearsney side without the Du Preez brothers. There is also apparently a 10 at one of the Durban South schools that is outstanding.

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  92. @Brum: What I found interesting about the Gisbourne page was that despite their huge success, only 1 player really made it in senior rugby (James Kerr). So I’m guessing that there school success was probably built around good teamwork coupled with size.

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  93. @beet: Or the New Zealand High School system does not match the SA one in age limits? – Somebody mentioned it earlier.

    Glenwood found that when they toured Argentina earlier this year if I remember correctly?

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  94. In regards the success of that Gisborne side I would imagine that most of the players were possibly around 19 or so and in some cases ie the captain in their 4 th year of 1st xv rugby , however I would say that they had a lot of Polynesian boys in the side which generally size wise probably made a difference , another factor is that NZ schools rugby was probably more ‘ professional ‘ than ours at the time , I think this is something which has now changed with SA schools rugby and I don’t think this would happen now as I think we have definitely caught up with NZ in this respect.

    Another top NZ schoolboy side I remember watching was Kelston Boys High where Graham Henry was headmaster, they won the World Schools tournament in Harare in 1998 and absolutely demolished a decent Monument side with 7 or 8 Craven week players 36-0 in the final , they were certainly superior to any schools side I had ever seen before in South Africa and more professional in their attitude and the way they played.

    Mils Muliana was the fullback in that side and was awesome, I think something like 5 or 6 of those players ended up playing test rugby for NZ and some of the other islands.

    The funny thing is they lost 1 game that season in the semi final of the NZ schools championships a game on paper they should have won hands down to Otago Boys High who had a certain Richie MCcaw in the side which shows the quality of NZ rugby at the time .

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