It may not have started out that way in 1964 but Glenwood and Westville are now the two most power rugby schools in Durban, making their derby on Saturday 15 March, the biggest match on the city’s school rugby calendar. Let’s just say: HUGE game ahead! If the rain stays away a massive crowd is expected to attend and if Westville’s Bowden’s field facility had been a little bigger, the occasion could well have challenged for best attended game of the KZN season.
In their quest to be number one in Durban annually, a healthy rivalry has built between the two school. The adults running the schools have allowed this rivalry to get the better of them in the past, resulting in the 2013 game being cancelled. Nevertheless the boys themselves always seem to show each other the utmost respect on the rugby field, a sign of truly great sportsmanship.
Thank you to Grasshopper for stats below.
Glenwood vs Westville decade by decade
| 1964-69 | 1970’s | 1980’s | 1990’s | 2000’s | 2010-2013 | TOTAL | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Played | 6 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 8 | 3 | 47 |
| Gwd Won | 6 | 6 | 7 | 4 | 6 | 2 | 31 |
| Wvl Won | 0 | 2 | 3 | 6 | 2 | 1 | 14 |
| Drawn | 0 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 |
| Gwd Win% | 100% | 60% | 70% | 40% | 75% | 67% | 66% |
| Wvl Win% | 0% | 20% | 30% | 60% | 25% | 33% | 30% |
| Gwd Points | 74 | 172 | 148 | 146 | 179 | 46 | 765 |
| Wvl Points | 27 | 94 | 132 | 170 | 89 | 35 | 547 |
| G-W Points Diff | 47 | 78 | 16 | -24 | 90 | 11 | 218 |
| G-W Avg Score | 12-5 | 17-9 | 15-13 | 15-17 | 22-11 | 15-12 | 16-12 |
| Gwd Best | 13-3 | 44-9 | 21-9 | 20-3 | 45-0 | 28-16 | 45-0 |
| Wvl Best | 12-16 | 30-22 | 13-3 | 21-5 | 17-3 | 13-9 | 21-5 |
| Gwd Streak | 6 of 9 | 3 of 9 | 4 | 3 of 6 | 3 of 6 | 2 | 9 |
| Wvl Streak | 0 games | 2 | 1 | 4 | 1 | 1 | 4 |
Glenwood vs Westville results over the years
| # | Year | Gwd | Wvl | Winner |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 1964 | 9 | 3 | Glenwood |
| 2 | 1965 | 11 | 3 | Glenwood |
| 3 | 1966 | 13 | 3 | Glenwood |
| 4 | 1967 | 16 | 12 | Glenwood |
| 5 | 1968 | 19 | 3 | Glenwood |
| 6 | 1969 | 6 | 3 | Glenwood |
| 7 | 1970 | 16 | 6 | Glenwood |
| 8 | 1971 | 16 | 0 | Glenwood |
| 9 | 1972 | 16 | 3 | Glenwood |
| 10 | 1973 | 6 | 6 | Draw |
| 11 | 1974 | 3 | 3 | Draw |
| 12 | 1975 | 17 | 9 | Glenwood |
| 13 | 1976 | 22 | 30 | Westville |
| 14 | 1977 | 10 | 15 | Westville |
| 15 | 1978 | 22 | 13 | Glenwood |
| 16 | 1979 | 44 | 9 | Glenwood |
| 17 | 1980 | 3 | 13 | Westville |
| 18 | 1981 | 21 | 9 | Glenwood |
| 19 | 1982 | 17 | 9 | Glenwood |
| 20 | 1983 | 3 | 10 | Westville |
| 21 | 1984 | 14 | 9 | Glenwood |
| 22 | 1985 | 9 | 22 | Westville |
| 23 | 1986 | 17 | 15 | Glenwood |
| 24 | 1987 | 25 | 18 | Glenwood |
| 25 | 1988 | 15 | 12 | Glenwood |
| 26 | 1989 | 24 | 15 | Glenwood |
| 27 | 1990 | 8 | 22 | Westville |
| 28 | 1991 | 14 | 21 | Westville |
| 29 | 1992 | 7 | 8 | Westville |
| 30 | 1993 | 5 | 21 | Westville |
| 31 | 1994 | 20 | 3 | Glenwood |
| 32 | 1995 | 17 | 24 | Westville |
| 33 | 1996 | 23 | 24 | Westville |
| 34 | 1997 | 28 | 27 | Glenwood |
| 35 | 1998 | 15 | 12 | Glenwood |
| 36 | 1999 | 9 | 8 | Glenwood |
| 37 | 2000 | 45 | 0 | Glenwood |
| 38 | 2001 | 17 | 13 | Glenwood |
| 39 | 2002 | 38 | 7 | Glenwood |
| 40 | 2003 | 7 | 17 | Westville |
| 2004 | Did not | Play | ||
| 41 | 2005 | 18 | 16 | Glenwood |
| 42 | 2006 | 3 | 17 | Westville |
| 2007 | Teachers | Strike | ||
| 43 | 2008 | 22 | 5 | Glenwood |
| 44 | 2009 | 29 | 14 | Glenwood |
| 45 | 2010 | 9 | 6 | Glenwood |
| 46 | 2011 | 28 | 16 | Glenwood |
| 47 | 2012 | 9 | 13 | Westville |
| 2013 | Did not | Play | ||
| 48 | 2014 |
@Beet
Yep thats what i was saying too.. its always been so…
@Grasshopper: At Westville I always see the opposition occupying the same part of the stand between the tryline and 22m line at the Wandsbeck Rd end. I assumed this was the official area for the visitors. Not?
@star: At DHS the opposition school sits on the end of the concrete stand towards the hall, area is usually closed off for the boys. DHS boys are on the temporary stands opposite
@ Greenwood- what happens at DHS ect. I am sure there is not a specific area designated there as well. What does happen is that as the GW teams finish up they congregate in one place which seems to have been consistent over the years( and the same for other schools)
@Greenwood
Surely they will will sit in the corner of the fixed stand near the pavillion. Thats where the opposing schools always sit so is this not the case?
nice that the professional players take some time to interact with the schoolboys…..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWvhFPHeJa0
Westers & Star
An observation – I hear there is no designated seating for the Glenwood boys at Westville they have to sit in and among parents and other supporters – come to Glenwood and all of visiting teams boy sit on benches reserved exclusively for them – I noticed this the last time I visited
Westvile – Not too sure if the Westville girls will be there ’cause of a dance at that school tonite –
Sun’s shining and the field looks great – hope the quality of the rugby follows suite . Their has been a lot of talk leading up to this fixture and only tomorrow afternoon will we know if it is conjecture or fact ! Enjoy the game everyone and may the best team win.
@beet: Just explain to him what the phrase mean before asking, oh and in Afrikaans.
@Westers: Unfortunately only one – The Union. In Pretoria why do you think Boys High is showing the Bulls the finger, also ask Affies and Waterkloof.
@Tjoppa: My point exactly. There is no winner.
Perhaps what is really bugging me the most is the boys in the lowest teams who are forced out of the game by the imports coming in higher up.
This Saturday Westville and Glenwood will each put out 8 Open age group teams. Westville have about 280 boys in Matric this year. If only 40% of these boys played rugby they would fill all 8 teams without any G11’s taken into account.
On many Saturdays in the season Westville cannot get opposition for all 8 teams.
On Saturday 31 May Westville cannot even get a rugby fixture for any of their teams.
There can be only one reason for importing players. To ensure the 1st team wins at any cost. They obviously have no faith in the players they have, despite the fact that through the age groups this years Matrics had strength in depth and last years U16’s were not too shabby either.
The clash will be refereed by “Mr Bean” – Zane Watson of the Midlands Referee’s Society. Zane is a College old boy, a very confident and competent ref who is on the national contenders panel.
@Tjoppa: This is starting to make sense. I just could not understand what the Bull’s motive was for moving any player from one school outside N/Gauteng to another school outside N/Gauteng. Surely they would want the kids under their noses.
I thought perhaps the N/Gauteng English schools apart from Southdowns did not want to take these kids in and that’s why the Bulls looked to schools that play rugby in more competitive arenas to take in their players. Southdowns is however in one the lowest leagues in the country so the theory had its flaws.
To help a player “development in language and ability” as you put it could be the reason. I wonder if Xander Janse Van Rensburg is willing to confirm if that is the case.
@Greenwood: That does seem true. There does feel as if there is a test match build up about this game.
My Son in one of the lower open teams is having his first game at Westville – he’s really pumped up – usually when he plays he goes through the motion and breaks into a walk every now and then but for this occasion
he is genuinely excited and I would say this applies to the whole of Glenwood including the Old Boys – there is a real buzz and to both schools and supporters it is beginning to feel like there is a test match coming on
@Westers: How this normally happens. Union ask school to accept child in order to help development in language and ability. The language issue is due to some children not fluent in English and therefore not able to adjust to Gauteng “life”. The Union support school & child financially. Win win situation for boy, school and union. Really?? No because:
1) Boy does not live up to expectations and all support dropped immediately.
2) School gets known for imports and local players starts to avoid school and a big decline in boys playing rugby as everybody accepts he may/will be replaced by imports.
You decide who will be the only winner at the end of the day.
@Rhino: Will keep you posted on this blog.
@Amalekite: I have considered taking the matter up but have been advised by many, that based on their experiences, the answers I will get are not supported by what is actually being done.
Go Westville!!! Please keep us ex pats in the loop with updates…
@Westers: Selected on merit means that they are deemed to be amongst the 15 best players at WBHS, according to their playing abilities etc. In other words, they have not been selected for any other reason.
If you feel so strongly about this issue, I suggest that you take it up with the powers that be,as you seem to have more questions than answers. You may be surprised with the answers that you get.
@Amalekite: How do you define “selected on merit”?
There is no animosity towards the two boys that I have heard of. But there is towards the coaches and the school hierarchy. The question being asked is what warranted the school importing players? Do they see a lack of strength and/or depth? Was it a case of doing it to stop any other KZN schools getting in first? No matter which way the answer goes it is totally unjustified, IMO.
I can confirm that Mike Vowles will be standing behind the posts for this game.
@CyndiAtRugby: agreed, good luck to all 27 or so teams playing. Play hard and fair. Be humble both in victory and defeat. GO GREEN! Still looking forward to seeing the team lists…
I am hoping for moderate weather, exciting rugby, great sportsmanship on the field and exemplary behaviour off the field. I think there will be good rugby across the all teams and all age groups.
I especially hope all works well in the U14 rugby teams – some of those boys will be playing their first rugby game EVER and most will be playing their first high school rugby game.
I would not like the job of 1st XV coach in any school, especially 1st tier schools. It is a high pressured job that is made even more difficult with parents that interfere etc.
Most of these coaches have to start almost from scratch every year with new boys coming through from grade 11 and grade 10.
Knowing Grant Bell, I find it hard to believe that he would agree to guarantee any player a position in his team. I sincerely believe, that like all the other 1st team coaches out there, he selects the team of players that he believes are the best. Of course, being human, he will make mistakes and rectify them as the season progresses. It is only once you play against a team like Glenwood, that you can really see whether a player has got what it takes to play at this level.
Players out of position? In principal, I disagree with it, but we are dealing with youngsters that are still learning and growing. when it works, then we tend to keep quiet. Just a few successful examples:
1. The way that McHardy and Braithwaite swopped between 9 and 10 during games in last year’s team was a great success.
2. A player like John Smit could play 1, 2 or 3 in his school years.
3. Gary Teichmann was a centre until the Hilton open coaches decided to play him at 8. The rest is history.
4. Marx from KES and the Lions played Grant Khomo (Grade 10) at lock, flank in grade 11(Academy week), hooker in Grade 12 ( Craven week). He is now doing very well at hooker.
5. Mark Andrews playing at 8 in the world Cup semis and the final.
There are too many more to mention…
I have spoken to some of the boys and it appears that there is no ill feeling towards the 2 boys from Hudson who arrived in Grade 10. They believe that they have been selected on merit, and that those who are not in the 1st team need to work harder if they want to make it. Don’t forget that it is a long season.
Finally, I say, let Grant Bell do his job, and let’s get behind the boys. Go Westville!
@star: Hahahaha! Waaaaaaay before my time…but I am a cultured man so I am aware of the song
@Playa- I am reminded of the Frankie goes to Hollywood song that starts with ” when two tribes go to war”. Or is that before your time
Although the warfare better be hard but clean.
@RugbyDad: BRILLIANT!
@Playa: No rain forecast until Sunday. Temperatures in the high 20’s and light wind – game will happen!
What’s the weather like in the Banana Republic of Natal? I really hope it clears up…this game needs to take place.
@Westers: I heard the story about certain players being given guaranteed starts in the first team but chose to dismiss it as sour grapes but with some of the more recent selections it could well be true . What really annoys me is when one player gets injured he is not replaced by the 2nd team player who is a specialist in that position – another chosen player is selected out of position !!
@Westers: Yep, agreed. I have even heard rumours around KZN that some prominent headmasters have told their coaches they want to be top in SA at any cost…shocking. I played in the 90’s when we were not that hot and loved that we played together as a team with all our weaknesses and managed to win some great games like DHS in 96, Kearsney in 94 and very close to beating a post matric laden Michaelhouse in 94 too. Those wins really meant something to us as a close knot group of guys who became friends from standard 6 onwards…..these days it’s just the result that counts…..soul destroying…
@Grasshopper: I have no problem with offering bursaries at U14 level to attract players. Thereafter, if you have to go out and recruit to support your expectations it says one of two things, either you have recruited badly at U14 level or your coaching structures to get the boys to the required level have failed.
Fire the PRO’s/talent scouts or the coaches, or both.
Whether kids win or lose playing for the first team, they will always look back with pride on having represented the school at that level. Don’t deprive them of the opportunity because of coaching or recruiting failures by importing talent.
Like your experience at Glenwood, I think this will fall on deaf ears at Westville.
@Westers: Not great, welcome to my endless battle with the Glenwood leadership team. I question things and they fall on deaf ears. Glenwood have a couple of recruits in grade 10 or 11 too….it’s just not right. Westville certainly can’t stand on a perch now considering they too are bringing in players even if it’s within the Headmasters agreement. I’ll be watching out for the Under14A result as that is where the big competition comes at an ethical level with recruitment…
@star: It’s a difficult one. If the boys do well the hierarchy will say it is justified and continue with the same policy. And the rot sets in further as the underlying foundation is destroyed.
I heard early in the year that certain boys had been assured of their place in the first team. I defended the school by saying I doubted that this would ever happen, that the boys would have to prove themselves and that the boys who had played in those positions last year in the higher teams would get preference. How wrong was I?
I have been making a few enquiries with regard to training ethics and fitness measurements to see if that could help justify the selections. The more I hear, the more I believe that those comments have a ring of truth to them – a very loud ring.
Teams anyone?
Being a Glenwood old boy but now with major ties to Westville this weekend is something that i have been looking forward to since last years cancellation, as it has just added more fuel to the already burning fire. The rivalry between the two Trevor’s is just as epic as what we will see on the field. In my opinion it has been long over due but still is too professionalized. Bringing boys in that haven’t been at the school for five minutes is wrong and must just shoot the confidence of the players losing out. In a derby like this and with the going on’s in recent years i feel that local boys who have been apart of it would excel in the situation of being able to get one over on the other team.
Mike is a great coach and has prepared his boys well enough so there is no chance of being under cooked. Just because it isn’t heard doesn’t mean that it hasn’t happened. Alot of behind the scenes work has gone in and this could prove vital. As for Westville i am concerned when it comes to ruck time, clean ball needs to be provided, as in previous games against weaker opposition its been a mess. I believe they have a flyhalf that can control the game along with dangerous players out wide. I do see Glenwood edging this one by a few points due to the superior forward pack and structure but i do feel it could come down to boot and making sure the goals are kicked.
Looking forward to a great afternoon of school boy rugby followed by the Sharks staying top of the log
@ Scrum Doctor@ Westers- While you guys make some very valid points, I think at this stage it is important to back the boys( who do not select themselves) and support all the teams that will represent Westville on Saturday. The results and future accountability will take care of itself in due course. GW will be pumped for this game and we need to be positive and unified to stare down the green monster.
@Westers: For anyone who has attended a great ALL BOYS SCHOOL, they will understand that your comments are spot on…
The growth and the bond formed between the Boys during Standard 6 can’t be replaced by another boy coming in at a later stage. All the beatings we go through together, the heros we all worship at the age of 14, these are memories and experiences that need to be formed when joining the school as a Standard 6 pupil – no disrespect to the co-ed schools, but I know the traditions are just not the same.
If I were representing my school at A Team level from 6-9 and then get pushed aside for a player who in effect has been bought, I would have had a very sour taste in my mouth. Luckily this ‘Professionalism’ was not around in my day, it is just wrong on all accounts to ‘Pay’ a school boy in order to join your school. Standard 6 Bursaries are fine and I understand that, but from then on, it must stop.
@Scrum Doctor: I hope for all the boys sake they get it right on Saturday. If it goes wrong it has the potential to screw up the whole season for not just the first team, but 2nds, 3rds and below as well.
Grapevine tells me we have an injury prone, currently very unfit prop, starting as a hooker. Two good hookers playing in the front row of the second team with an U17 prop. Hopefully I am proven wrong on Saturday.
The one thing I know I am not wrong about is the gross injustice that has been dealt out by bringing two imports (both U17) straight into the 1st team. This will be their first official game for the school and they haven’t even been at the school for six months. The Westville hierarchy have got this one very wrong – no matter how good they are.
The Westville motto is Incepto Ne Desistam – May I not shrink from my purpose. From a rugby and sports perspective, what the school has just told a bunch of boys that have served them loyally over the last 4 years is that they must shrink from their purpose because they are not good enough. Next year these boys become old boys and going forward the school will appeal to them for support – especially financially. I would imagine quite a few of them will show the school a toffee.
This is not how you maintain “a dam fine institution” and nurture all round excellence.
@Westers: Both imports are in and a good few more playing out of position – this is not a game for playing boys who do not have a skill set specific to the position they have been selected in !!
@beet: ah ok, a relative biggie up in Durban North as Northwood want to prove a point. I predict Kearsney by 10 and DHS by 15…
@beet: I hope it remains civil and doesn’t boil over as that could get ugly. It’s just a game and leave it at that. Mike won’t probably run the lines and will stay away from the old boys stand during the game but mix afterwards….
@Grasshopper: Kearsney vs Northwood and DHS vs Port Natal
@Grasshopper: Mike will get the most verbal from the recent WOBs that love him most and just want to give him a hard time for the sake of it
This will be the friendly fire. I somehow doubt older adult home supporters will just stand by and allow him to run up and down the sideline shouting instructions to his players or trying to influence reffing decisions without having anything to say about it.
But who knows. Everyone might be on their best behaviour
Are any of the other big KZN sides playing this weekend…
If I had to call it I would say Westville at home. The home ground advantage at both venue’s is huge. Not a good hunting ground for KC in the past and I think things won’t be different for GW too. Now see what you guys have done. I am no longer on the fence!!!!!
@beet: It would be sad if this happened. He didn’t leave on bad terms and was good for Westville. If I had a choice between the current coach and Vowles it would be a no brainer.
@beet: I hope not he did plenty for Westville & Westville Old Boys, he should be cheered back. He made the move probably for money reasons…
I wonder if Mike Vowles is planning on putting on a pair of shorts and running up and down the touchline on Sat. If he does, 70mins is gonna feel like 70 eons with all the verbal abuse (both friendly and unfriendly) being hurled at him
@star: No chance they are the underdogs at home, remember they won last at home. Glenwood are the underdogs away from home, that is how they will see it considering the last game…..
@Westers
Really huh is the morale that bad with all that shenanigans going on.. pity!! Fully understood though as its propostorous. I am gutted to miss the match as was out in SA the past 2 weeks and couldnt stay longer but at least i have brought the sunshine back here with me :-)
@Rhino: If the imports are in the 1st team come Saturday I am not sure that the team will be properly up for it.
@Star
The boys will be up for it thats for sure… we’ll see saturday !!!
So Westville carries the underdog tag at home which is fine. I will say the loss of Martin will be felt from both a leadership and lineout ability perspective.
@Grasshopper:
if you look at the make up of the GW team, the likes of Spam, Vidima, Tredoux, Coetzee, Jonas, Joubert – these are all big name players with a years worth of not only 1st xv rugby, but CW rugby to boot, they have faced the best of the best and should be rearing to go for Sat.
Jonas should be great at Flyhalf this year and I am also expecting big things from Joubert, who did not quite live up to his massive reputation last year, but a year can make all the difference in the world
@RBugger: I hope you are right or we will never hear the end of it…
If dry, GW by 10-12, wet – GW BY 3-9 points, they will be too strong for Westville
@Dixon’s: Well, our forwards look a little light at lock so maybe battle up front. Although the front row seems solid. I wonder if they going to release the teamsheets before Sat…
@Buffel: thats exactly what worries me…. Glenwoods kicking out of hand last year was terrible (thats what got them into trouble on Goldstones, luckily they pulled that one out of the fire) hopefully it has improved since then. But the age old story about the game of rugby will be true if it is wet…. the game is won or lost up front! I cannot wait
This weekend could be the same around the province so the forwards will have to be on their game. A good kicking game should prevail.
@Buffel: having never lost to Glenwood in my 5 years of schooling ( 1st XV ’90/’91 ) I have always enjoyed reminding the Wood lads, of that era, as many played club rugga with me at Collegians. For what it’s worth, I believe the Wood will shade this one with their superior backline and big ball carrying locks and loosies… weather, if bad, will bring the sides closer together
@Grasshopper: I think you guys have had a nice break and will be ready come Saturday. Just hope the weather plays its part. Bowdens can become a lake if it rains too much.
I think this is going to be massive. Both sides have an equal chance of coming out on top , just depends on the bounce of the ball. Good luck to both. Have friends kids on both sides so will sit on the fence for this one.
Roll out the handbags
I would really love to see this game. Hopper, I’d appreciate the updates on here. I still haven gotten around using twitter…haven’t even got a facebook account. These things are too advanced even for my young and tender self.
@kcob: gosh Leyton and John were the 1st team props in 92 when I was in 2nd form, they were massive! Leyton played KZN schools that year. Paul de Bruyn from DHS was the other, must have been the biggest front row KZN has ever had. Also Dom Sunjka in 91 was massive. I was in awe of these guys as a little 2nd former. They were bigger than any teacher. Yeah Glenwood will be looking to put down a marker, hope they not undercooked with only Port Natal Night series as warm up weeks ago…
@kcob: I thought you beat Pinetown in that 1st game
@Grasshopper: ha ha ha Grasshopper; my year was the worst too! Captaining that was hard work. We did beat GW in the first game in 91 then it was downhill from there. I played against Layton Pardy; John Botha; Harry Davidson etc. good blokes. I played 90 and 92 was very good; I think we lost two. Good luck vs the Ville; soften them up for the Kearsney game next week please.
@Grasshopper: Thanks Hopper. What is your twitter address?
@Roger: Cool, let me check with my grandad first if he is up for it. He does battle to get around but might find this very exciting…who knows.
@Woltrui: I’ll tweet updates or post updates on here…
Interesting stats Hopper. This is a SBR game I would have loved to see. Pity there is no TV coverage. Can’t somebody organise radio commentary or something? Will somebody be tweeting the scores of the game(preferably not somebody hanging around the local beer garden ala KERF 2013 8) )?
@Grasshopper: get hold of Eugene Marx or Carl Spilhaus – I’m sure they would consider it
@Roger: Not sure hey, he is 87 now and got some great pics and memories of back then, He went straight to war after school, Italy to be precise. He also played for the Transvaal army. Now to get him to come and speak at KES would be great…maybe even hand out KES jersey’s….you playing in Durban against Westville, I could arrange it…
@Grasshopper: is the photo in the school hall? Where you having a secret tour Hopper
as a loyal old boy i would love Glenwood to start this season with a bang and put up a polished performance ….. but i know lots of the Westville boys from club rugby, quality bunch of boys, so i will always want them to do well…. just not too well on Saturday
@Roger: The 90’s were our worst decade and I played in our worst year, 1996….we won only 4 games out of 20, DHS being one and a key one for us. Oh yes, check out your 1943 1st team when you next at the school, my grandfather played in that KES side..
heh Hopper – in 1990 KES put 50 past Westville at the Sainst festival – imagine what they would have done to Umbilo Tech
44-9 in 1979 stands out for me, gosh that must have been mayhem as in those days tries were 3 points I think…
It took Westville 12 years to win their 1st game, typical sort of results for a new school vs an old one. Glenwood’s stats vs Hilton, Michaelhouse, College and DHS are distorted by the early year losses…probably about 2 decades of struggling before becoming competitive..