KlofiePa drew my attention to this really good article from the Business Day written by Liz McGregor who visited Dale College in King Williams town. She writes about a possible reason why we produce so few black Springboks.
http://www.bdlive.co.za/sport/rugby/2013/10/10/we-should-take-a-close-look-at-rugby-factories
Incidentally in the big Border derby it was Queens who beat Dale 21-8 and not the other way around.
@BOG: Stigma and ignorance is a problem
Perhaps SARU need to be looking at the other codes in SA that are having some sucess?
In particular soccer and athletics? The same constraints exist in these sports at grass roots level (facilities, money, social issues in the home) – and yet we seem to produce some good sportsmen out of the system every now and then.
Did these kids go through some development phase (Pirates coaching clinics, Bakers/KFC mini cricket, school athletics meets etc.)? Or what was the formula? I see we even have a black wheel chair tennis champion – what was the secret to success there?
My opinion is that one needs to develop the sport in general at grass roots level to build a bigger player base. And then once talent is starting to develop – they will be spotted and be moved into the more traditional structures – whether it is an offer to move to the local high school in the platteland rather than a township – or a move to the bigger city schools where bursaries seem to be more lucrative and exposure higher.
What i believe is the real lack is initiative like the one Playa seems to be involved in – sustainable – long term and with no glitz, glamour and full of fanfare and false promises. Just pure grind and hopefully some of the guys will end up playing first or second division rugger after school – or even get a bursary or opportunity for one of the local schools that play rugby as a main sport.
We must also remember we live in a free world so parents can do what they want which is good would not want it any other way but the truth be known why the white elite type schools just keep getting stronger is because of either money or white just flock to these schools more and more because of there inherent fear of what happens at schools once they become say more than 50% mixed race. This fear in some cases is maybe justified but in most it is not.
Although parents have the right to do what they want what is not good is the example of two boys who were going to Queens next year white boys who after being offered full busaries at other schools still decided to go to Queens but two weeks ago this changed when a Old Boy of another school then paid the parents a large lump sum to change the status quo and I am speaking about big money here. (These parents are very poor and the father died 2 years ago.) So when factors like this creep in I am afraid that people are basically just signing the death warrant for schools like Queens and Dale. They just cannot win if they have good white talent they are fed crap about what happens at black schools and if they have black talent they just bought with money so they in a no win situation.
@Playa: Agree with you on your points I think what SARU should be doing is setting a few standard/rules for how the Unions and schools contract boys.
1. If the Union want to contract a boy they should not be allowed to move or help influence the movement of that boy from his school. (ie the Fortuin debacle between the Blue Bulls and Queens.)
2. SARU should set up a fund to help schools like Dale counter the poaching that is going on of all there talent.
3. Also SARU should enforce that all Union,s so called Quota players(Craven Week) were in Junior school in that province which will help sort out this mess of Union raping schools like Dale and Queens of there talent.
@Playa: Sure, because right now, they seem to be “labouring” more in the bedroom than in the boardroom. Its no secret that I do not have much regard for Saru, but very little can be done ito development among communities that do not control their unsatiable lust after —. And no, this is not a race matter
@BOG: There was a study done that linked population growth to unemployment levels. Add grants to the mix and voila!
Debate for another day. We need to sort out our labour policies in this country.
@Tjoppa: I totally agree
I don’t think Ive ever agreed with you so much
@boxkick: Unfortunately, politics in SA sports has been there from the beginning of time.
The matter here is not a political one, but simply one of “where do these youngsters go?” Trust me, I do not want politics involved in sport, all I want is a level playing ground.
I quote you: “time the poor previously disatvataged do the same and stop standing with their hands outstretched for hand outs…”
Who has asked for handouts? Having been involved in rugby development for the last 8 years I have never asked, nor do I know anyone who has asked for a single cent from SARU.All we ask for is endorsement.The fact of the matter is no programme in SA goes anywhere without SARU’s endorsement.No one is asking for a handout, just a level playing ground.Is it fair to say white people are asking for a handout when they complain about employment equity policies/quotas and BEE?Or are they just seeking a level playing ground?
To make it clear:
We do not want 15 incompetent black players wearing the green and gold. We want 15 competent black players who have the capability of wearing the green and gold.They may not make the team because there are better players, but they should be good enough to cover should the starting 15 get hit by a bus.
I did not have time to read all the comments above. Im simply to occupied with the care of abandoned children- and Im serious. In 2010, in KZN alone, there were 17000 school pregnancies. In SA as a whole, the children in need of care, are INCREASING by 25000 PER MONTH !!! Just maybe- could this have an impact? I think that we all know the answer to that and as a matter of fact, it includes ALL population groups. SAs are sitting on a time bomb and denial seems to be the preferred option to deal with this massive challenge
@Playa: Agree for example.
Super 15 – Reduce teams to only 4 teams. Maintain total salary spent and pay the chosen 120 players better salaries. Therefore players earn more and play less games. Less players leaving and prolonging their careers. Franchises being Cape, KZN, FState and Old Transvaal. No promotion and relegation with a drafting system at the end of each season to promote players from CC. Unions hosted at new World Cup Soccer stadiums.
Currie Cup – 12 teams divided in two sections, playing quarter, semis and finals. No Super 15 players involved. Full Time professionals. In dividing two regional sections travel costs etc will be reduced and better salaries to be paid. No regulated transfer between unions but all unions should be on a similar footing as finances will be evenly spread therefore the difference between the fat cats and other unions will be marginal. Each team allowed 30 players for the season.
Club Rugby – All 12 unions to support own club structures. Clubs will be semi professional with no limitations on movement of players. Club champions brought back in all its glory.
u/21 Currie Cup – Unions limited to 30 players Played in the same format as senior Currie Cup.
u/19 Currie Cup- Unions limited to 30 players. BUT players allocated via a draft system to ensure an even spread amongst the 12 unions. Played in the same format as senior Currie Cup. All drafted players must attend a higher education institution. If he does not comply to minimum standards he is replaced.
No BEE imposing rules except at club level where every white club must adapt a black club and ensure proper development at club levels.
@ all – don’t know about you guys, but I am sick to death of all this bullshit politics in sport…grey bloem, affies, paarl gym, boys high and all the other “rugby schools make it their business to have facilities etc, etc…old boys or no old boys…time the poor previously disatvataged do the same and stop standing with their hands outstretched for hand outs…one should look at bok results pre transformation and compare it to post transformation…and in that lies the answer…
@Tjoppa: I agree. SARU’s role is no to parent. But just when you send your child to boarding school, it does not take away your responsibility as a parent, even later on when they go to university.My point here is that, not all kids contracted in rugby will make it, whether provincially or internationally.
SARU have themselves put it on their mission statement that they are the custodians of rugby and the development thereof.They HAVE to abide by that.
As for requesting and drafting proposals to SARU…believe me we have tried and still are.I am known by name in those offices.Requesting anything, even a face to attend a tournament or discussion forum from SARU is like asking the department of education to deliver textbooks.
@QC86: This has nothing to do with money, in fact, money is where the problem begins. Big pay cheques at an early age, and no management.
Nurture – This has all to do with the player’s playing ability. Unions can contract in the region of 50 under 19 players a year. Only 30, maybe 35 due to injuries will see a currie cup game. The other 15, carry tackle bags and spend their nights praying for more injuries. SARU must cap the number of contracts given to school leaving boys by a single union. As ‘young proffessionals’ under 19 boys should receive the same quality of coaching and attention (if not more) as they did in high school.This includes nutrition, gym etc.
This would be the equivalent of tutorials and assignments in varsity.Constantly monitored, and feedback is given to you by your tutors and lecturers in order for you to improve and learn.
Development – Over and above rugby, these are young men. You need to develop the overall person. Create an environment that balances rugby, life and learning. I am a believer that every 19 year old rugby player should be studying some sort of course.Maybe that’s a pipe dream.
This is simply the equivalent of a time-table in varsity.You know when your lectures, tests and exams are. You know when your assignments are due.And most importantly, you know who to contact when you need assistance etc.
Instead of paying a 19 year old R8000 per month and him pi$$ing it up, you could easily pay them half of that and use the other R4k to cover the costs of these proper structures.
There was a method to the madness of conscription.To build structure.A similar approach is needed here…not as militant of course
@Playa:
Agree 100%.
But remember God gave children to parents as gifts. It is the responsibility of the parents to ensure what you are insisting from SARU.
Maybe we as the community must stop insisting that third parties are responsible for our shortcomings as parents. Maybe the community must take SARU’s hand in developing talent and stop insisting what is not yours to insist.
Yes I do agree that SARU is big time at fault here. But it is not our right to insist on anything. I promise you if you as the black community go to SARU and request a change in approach they will assist.
But then you as community must also accept the outcome whatever it is and do not fall back to quotas and other inhumane measures to ensure black boys reaching the top.
@QC86: Very flawed perception indeed. You are right.
).Me being a vegeterian or anorexic has no bearing on my ability to buy meat.If I have the means to buy meat, you should be able to provide it and at the quality you claim to provide it at.
How I see SARU’s failure is if I walked into your shop with the intention of buying chops and biltong, but only found lettuce and cabbages, then you have failed in your mandate as a custodian of meat (great meat I might add
SARU has beautifuly visions and mission statements all over their building in Newlands, but how they have carried it out on the ground is shameful at best.
I ‘m involved in some development programmes (through a rugby team we started in 2002) in the Cape Town townships. We dont expect to produce any Springboks, out of the 500+ kids that have come to our sessions in the last 8 years, it would be a miracles if we produce even one.But SARU sends ‘agents’ once a year who bring rugby balls, and take a picture. They then go on a huge marketing thing with that picture, placing it on the ir website, newspapers and give themselves a pat on the back for a ‘job well done’.
@Playa: please explain to me what nurtured,developed and handed proper support systems is in practicality.
like nurtured is put under someones wing??and developed mean he is taken to the gym??and support is he can go talk to the coach and given some money?? tell me
@QC86: SARU’s responsibility is to nurture talent and not to run households, I agree.The average black home can barely put food on the table, so funds directed at rugby is not even on a wish list. Let’s be realistic about that.
I think the two thirds is a bit of an exaggeration, but yes, there is a large number of kids coming from single parented homes.But that is neither here nor there, our parents grew up in single parented homes, and so did a lot of my mates.Communal support was not an issue then, but is now, as communities have become more individualistic.
Before I digress, SARU runs rugby and needs to develop rugby.Where talent is spotted, the boy(s) need(s) to be nurtured, developed and handed proper support systems – just as kids are in varsity.
My point here is unions need to be stopped from buying and picking for the sake of making up numbers.SARU needs to step in to ensure that each kid on a union’s buy list is provided with all the necessary support structure required to have a chance.
SARU may not have the capability of fixing kids’ backgrounds, but they sure as hell have the mandate to ensure that they pave a reasonable path for them.That is their duty.
P.S. – Tjoppa: And that is for black, white, poor and rich kids
@Tjoppa: sorry boet it was said with tongue in cheek,but the biggest mistake a nation can make is to think that there will be no poor people and that everybody will be successful,and again that is our job as parents to give our own kids the hand up and start they need.
@QC86: Race or age group. Common you are better than this. Bet you were involved in a few of those.
@Playa: I think alot of families should look at themselves and stop waiting for help.They need to focus all their funds and time into their own kids,this all starts with strong and tight family groups.the above article states that two thirds of the kids are brought up by single parents
WTF,so pomp and leave,how can any race be successful with those stats.Saru can’t fix that.
@Playa: I agree 100% BUT I feel that the talented black players are in such demand that the average player is also, mostly to his disadvantage, forced through the system. The only way forward is the establishment of rugby as the preferred sport in the black communities. This to my humble opinion. All quick fixes eventually lead to failure.
But that said I also understand the need for black players but do not agree with the current methods used.
@Tjoppa: I agree with you.No child should be left behind where development is concerned.
That said…SARU has been failing where development of black rugby is concerned.That is a fact.
@Playa: No that is my opinion. Poor and underdeveloped children irrespective of colour needs our help. That is all I am asking.
@Tjoppa: The last line of my post reads “Especially the disadvantaged”. In fact, re-read my whole post and let me know where I suggest the exclusion of anyone.
@Playa: In other words children black or white in top schools excluded?
@Tjoppa: Currently AND previously
@Playa: Currentl or previously?
@QC86: SARU has spent 700mil on rugby balls, t-shirts, one day coaching clinics and meaningless little tournaments.
Sure there are other factors, some to do with individuals’ own demons – which are no fault of SARU.
Rugby is continuous progress, and involves a lot of mental preparation, life skilling, player management and balance, nutrition etc. SARU could regulate unions to do away with the exorbitant salaries they pay under 19 players, and re-direct those resources to the well-being and development of a young sportsman.Especially the disadvantaged.
According to my humble opinion a lot of racist crap. Not only black schools are poor and not only black children need proper nutrition to develop. So the question why do we not produce more black Springboks?
Because the majority of black people prefer soccer. The same reason why Bafana Bafana is BLACK.
The solution?
Develop rugby as a sport at grass root levels in the black communities. This is why the Eastern and Western Cape area producing most of the “black players”. Rugby is part of their culture.
@Playa: Saru has spent over 700 mil on support and development in the last 10 years and have only had 2 players of colour play for the Boks.They are Chillie and Zane,so there must be other factors.
This, in my view is just part of the problem.
The major part is the obsession of unions to fulfill ‘quota’ obligations and put time and resources into mass recruitment instead of support and development.