Updated. Time is running out to determine the KZN Tier -1 no.1 team for 2013. Matters have not been helped by bad weather and disagreements which have seen Glenwood, Kearsney and Westville minus annual fixtures. With a serious outbreak of flu at Maritzburg College, another potential table topping decider might be called off. Officials at the Pietermaritzburg school have to carefully consider whether or not it’s in their boys best health interests to be playing rugby against Kearsney this Saturday.
The overall situation could spark a huge debate about who deserves to be crowned as the province’s numero uno for 2013, come the July holidays, when the season ends for all but 2 schools.
It’s not just a battle at the top end. Further down the likes of George Campbell, Northwood, Port Natal, Clifton and DHS also find themselves vying for ranking places.
So who do you think deserves to be the KZN no. 1 for 2013?
KZN results
| HOME | AWAY | HOME | AWAY | HOME | AWAY | ||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pionier | 6 | 23 | Kearsney | Hilton | 24 | 14 | Northwood | DHS | 14 | 46 | Glenwood |
| DHS | 67 | 8 | KZN Development | M. College | 38 | 11 | DHS | Northwood | 50 | 0 | Pinetown |
| George Campbell | 10 | 7 | St Charles | St Charles | 17 | 18 | Voortrekker (Pmb) | Port Natal | 14 | 45 | Westville |
| Northwood | 0 | 30 | Kearsney | Port Natal | 11 | 20 | George Campbell | M. College | 40 | 44 | Glenwood |
| Hilton | 81 | 0 | Voortrekker (Pmb) | DHS | 3 | 42 | Westville | Westville | 45 | 0 | Northwood |
| Pinetown | 10 | 67 | George Campbell | Hilton | 42 | 12 | Michaelhouse | Clifton | 11 | 28 | DHS |
| Michaelhouse | 38 | 11 | Northwood | Northwood | 13 | 26 | M. College | St Charles | 10 | 25 | DHS |
| M. College | 39 | 10 | George Campbell | St Charles | 0 | 55 | Kearsney | Hilton | 39 | 10 | George Campbell |
| Kearsney | 26 | 25 | Glenwood | Hilton | 34 | 0 | St Charles | Westville | 21 | 17 | Michaelhouse |
| DHS | 28 | 25 | Port Natal | Kearsney | 38 | 5 | Michaelhouse | Hilton | 38 | 22 | M. College |
| Westville | 20 | 10 | Hilton | M. College | 23 | 9 | Michaelhouse | Kearsney | 76 | 6 | DHS |
| Empangeni | 0 | 49 | Westville | Glenwood | 21 | 9 | Hilton | St Charles | 29 | 24 | Northwood |
| Pinetown | 0 | 82 | Glenwood | George Campbell | 18 | 3 | Voortrekker (Pmb) | ||||
| George Campbell | 48 | 7 | Hillcrest | George Campbell | 20 | 24 | Northwood | ||||
| Michaelhouse | 5 | 36 | Glenwood | Clifton | 17 | 10 | George Campbell |
BHP formula driven table
| # | Team | P | W | L | D | PF | PA | PD | CatP | BP | Subtt | Win % | Win Bonus | Lose Pt 2 | Total Pts | Avg |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Kearsney | 5 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 223 | 36 | 187 | 15 | 2 | 17 | 100.00% | 0.50 | 0 | 17.50 | 3.50 |
| 2 | Westville BHS | 7 | 7 | 0 | 0 | 246 | 63 | 183 | 17 | 2 | 19 | 100.00% | 0.70 | 0 | 19.70 | 2.81 |
| 3 | Glenwood | 6 | 5 | 1 | 0 | 254 | 94 | 160 | 14 | 2 | 16 | 83.33% | 0.50 | -0.5 | 16.00 | 2.67 |
| 4 | Hilton | 8 | 6 | 2 | 0 | 277 | 99 | 178 | 15 | 3 | 18 | 75.00% | 0.00 | 0 | 18.00 | 2.25 |
| 5 | Maritzburg College | 7 | 4 | 3 | 0 | 207 | 149 | 58 | 11 | 2 | 13 | 57.14% | 0.00 | -0.5 | 12.50 | 1.79 |
| 6 | DHS | 8 | 4 | 4 | 0 | 182 | 254 | -72 | 7 | 2.5 | 9.5 | 50.00% | 0.00 | 0 | 9.50 | 1.19 |
| 7 | George Campbell | 7 | 4 | 3 | 0 | 131 | 145 | -14 | 6 | 0.5 | 6.5 | 57.14% | 0.00 | -0.5 | 6.00 | 0.86 |
| 8 | Northwood | 8 | 2 | 6 | 0 | 136 | 212 | -76 | 4 | 2 | 6 | 25.00% | 0.00 | 0 | 6.00 | 0.75 |
| 9 | Michaelhouse | 6 | 1 | 5 | 0 | 86 | 171 | -85 | 2 | 2.5 | 4.5 | 16.67% | 0.00 | 0 | 4.50 | 0.75 |
| 10 | St Charles | 5 | 1 | 4 | 0 | 56 | 156 | -100 | 2 | 0.5 | 2.5 | 20.00% | 0.00 | -0.5 | 2.00 | 0.40 |
Yup
Glenwwod 2nds & 3rds to play GC & Porties Friday PM – someone suggested this may be evening games which means they might play at Porties who have lights
@CRC: Ok, yes, Hilton and House have a return. It cannot affect Hilton because the win will not earn them anything more but a loss would lose them one point. It’s the only way to balance that 4 teams have home/Away fixtures. College and House can only earn one point for the return match, or Glenwood and Hilton just keep their 2. KC, Westville, Glenwood all prejudiced because I guess they all believe they would have won the respective matches. The only other way of treating it is to take ém out altogether which is daft, and the linear approach doesn’t work, as shown by other examples.
@Westers: Sure, but 7th and 8ths seldom do play on Goldstones, except when some higher teams play against other opposition away and free up a slot, but as you can see, full from 8:30am
@Gungets Tuft: Thanks using a points system takes a bit of the guesswork out of it, although KC are prejudiced by the games they have not been able to play. A correction, Hilton have 2 games left, KC this weekend and House next weekend.
@Gungets Tuft: Thanks for the fixtures. Looking forward to it. Great place for most of the Westville matrics to play their last SBR game on Goldstones. Pity the 7ths and 8ths couldn’t get onto Goldstones.
@GREENMOM: You nearly turned into a pampoen last night.
Hockey against Westville on Saturday
TEAM OPPONENT VENUE TIME COACH
1st Westville Papes Astro 10h 45 Elliott
2nd Westville Papes Astro 12h00 Jelley
3rd Westville Barnes A 09h30 Larter
4th Westville Barnes A 08h30 J Orchard
U16A Westville Papes Astro 09h10 Oldnall
U16B Westville Papes Astro 13h00 Emerson
U16C Westville Barnes A 12h00 Ngcobo
U16D Westville Barnes A 13h00 Talke
U16E Westville Barnes B 12h00 Webley
U14A Westville Papes Astro 08h00 Swart
U14B Westville Papes Astro 14h00 Tullis
U14C Westville Barnes B 09h30 Bam
U14D Westville Barnes B 08h30 Rembold
U14E St Charles Barnes B 13H00 Mantle
Rugby
TEAM TIME FIELD OPPOSITION
1st 15:10 Goldstones Westville
2nd 13:55 Goldstones Westville
3rd 12:50 Goldstones Westville
4th 10:40 Goldstones Westville
5th 09:35 Goldstones Westville
6th 08:30 Goldstones Westville
7th 12:00 Nicholsons Westville
8th 10:50 Nicholsons Westville
9th 09:00 Away Michaelhouse 6th
16A11:45 Goldstones Westville
16B 10:30 Snows Westville
16C 09:40 Nicholsons Westville
16D 08:30 Nicholsons Westville
16E 13:30 Lamonds Westville
16F 09:00 Away Michaelhouse 16 D
15A 11:30 Snows Westville
15B 12:30 Snows Westville
15C09:30 Lamonds Westville
15D 08:30 Lamonds Westville
15E11:30Lamonds Westville
15F 10:30 Lamonds Westville
14A 09:30 Snows Westville
14B 08:30 Snows Westville
14C 11:30 Leaches Westville
14D 09:30 Leaches Westville
14E 10:30 Leaches Westville
14F 08:30 Leaches Westville
@Westers: Westers, is a very good barfly with a fitting lack of honesty! No sportsman or gentleman though…
@beet: Fleece jackets, goose down duvets and Old Brown Sherry …. except it is exam time, so hopefully not to much Obies.
She might as well get used to it, first 10 days of the holidays find us in the Central Kalahari, roughing it where the temps regularly get below zero with the nearest plug point 7 hour drive away.
@Gungets Tuft: Eish! I hope you taught her how to chop wood and make controlled indoor fires.
@beet: Haha, Tjaaas. Spare a thought for my surfer girl daughter in Grahamstown, -2 tonight and there is a power outage (again), Grahamstown is Fubar.
@Gungets Tuft: 7!!!!!!
That’s the equivalent of -20° on the Durbanitometer.
@Westers: We will give you as many teams of Red, Black and White as Alexander Flemming allows. At least this will not be one of the games that casts doubt on the rankings in KZN. Looking like a nice day, getting chilly in the mornings (around zero in the early hours tonight, 7 minimum on Saturday), Goldstones at its most inviting.
@ Gungets Tuft I will let you know exact fixtures as soon as I see them.
@ Grasshopper Old Boy Brian Shabangu selected for SA Presidents XV
@Tigger: Angaas, GreenMom is due any second now, perhaps she has heard something down at the local. Think Cyndi said something about Glenwood 2nds against Campbell??
@Gungets Tuft: Good news. Hope all boys are fully recovered and able to take part.
@Gungets Tuft I believe Glenwood play George Campbell/Port Natal this coming weekend, possibly Friday evening.
@Westers: College is committed to playing. There are some challenges, still 5 out but the BokSmart requirements look to be sorted out at 1st and 2nd team at least, the rest will hopefully follow. Word from the school is that the whole ambit is on. Only BokSmart and medical opinion will stop College and it looks like that is under control. Game on, no comments column, unless there is some sort of medical relapse which I doubt.
See you at College on Saturday.
@Ruggersake: ya, I don’t get the debate either. With the du P’s back, fit and playing full games, it’s a no brainer.
@Gungets Tuft: TH has put out a notice to say Westville has committed to a full schedule of rugby and hockey fixtures this weekend. Parents planning to go away for the long weekend must make other plans. I assume this means early indications are the games will be happening this weekend? Have you heard anything yet?
@Rugger fan: Don’t feed the trolls, any number of them, stumble in when the pub closes and stumble around slurping up the leftovers. I reckon ou Jordaan and our EeischMom are about matched for a knee-trembler in the alley, we should let them get on with it.
@Jordaan:
Do we know you from somewhere?
@WBHS Griffon: don’t paint all of us with the same brush!
@Speartackle: I wouldn’t say dull by any means if you had seen either of Colleges last two losses – they were crackers.
@GreenBlooded: So what should we do, base the rankings on science and statistics or just what you think every week?
And the “Village School” reference again, jeepers you Glenwood guys are unbelievable!
These current rankings are a complete farse, Glenwood are far and away the best team in KZN as evidenced by our number of KZN schools players. If we played Kearsney now, I reckon we’d give them 20 points!
As for Westville, they can stick to playing “Village Schools” and College can continue their donwhill slide!
Glenwood Old Boy Shaun Adendorff called up for Bok 7’s, http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/another-old-boy-called-7s-squad-training
@Roger: Same scenario here in KZN, of the 80 to 90 odd under14’s playing rugby only about 25 to 30 have played rugby before. Those good at under14 can’t determine their growth going forward but they usually do have a better reading and understanding of the game as us football blokes bunched around the ball. They also have better technique’s and ball skills…..just saying.
@GreenBlooded: We Coastals have a better class of dog … or at least fewer canine sinus issues …. and we allow our gardeners to sleep inside …
@GreenBlooded: On the log basis – with “no result” games counting for 1 point each, the standings are as follows.
Glenwood – 11 (remember one match to play against College but they cannot gain points, only lose one if College win the return, 1 point from no-contest against Ville)
Westville – 10 (one to play against College, 1 point each from GW and KC)
KC – 9 (2 to play, Hilton and College, 1 point from Ville)
Hilton – 8 (1 to play, KC)
College – 6 (3 to play, KC, Westville and the return against Glenwood, max 1 point possible from that)
House – 2
DHS – 1 (washout against NW)
NW – 1 (DHS washout)
Thats just my take – play with the numbers. {rings bell} “Seconds out, ROUND number 1!!”
@Gungets Tuft: @Roger: It’s like Grassy keeps saying – KES and Glenwood have so much in common…..
@Roger: My son had one of those last year at KES. The 2 asthmatic dogs (no gardener) shared the lounge, he got back to Durban shattered. He is a grumpy oke when tired so we fought the rest of the weekend. Lucky for your okes my mutt has perfect respiration. He smells like a 12 day old corpse, but at least he is quiet …
@Roger:
A good U14 team, if groomed well, can turn into a good 1st XV. The current Kearsney 1st side is testemant of this and next years College 1st side will also do the exact same.
@WBHS Griffon: “close call to decided no.1 in KZN between Kearsney and Westville.”
@GreenBlooded: hmmm – did you swim in ’88? LTP and Father’s Moustache – enter at your peril!!!
@Grasshopper: yup – as I thought – no depth. U14/15 results mean nothing to me – in JHB those English boys have been playing soccer until Grade 7 and physically they get monstered. By the time they get to Grade 11/12 size is no longer a factor, they have been playing the game for 3/4 years and have received good coaching as well. Level playing field. When I was U14/15 Monnas beat us by 60+ – our best move was to stand under the posts – only for us to beat them by 20 in matric. I fail to see how a good U14A translates to a good 1st XV five years later – maybe someone can explain that to me??
@Roger: Agreed, if Westville beat College it’s going to be a close call to decided no.1 in KZN between Kearsney and Westville.
Both Kearsney, Westville and Glenwood have performed roughly the same against non-KZN opposition and Kearsney have beaten Glenwood.
@Roger: London Town Pub. Eish – now I’m getting nostalgic. I matriculated in ’88. LTP was the Glenwood spot after Saturday matches. A mate of ours was always goaded to enter the Mr Wet Skants (curtain raiser to the more popular Miss Wet T Shirt) and was cheered to victory by all of our girlfreinds (only girls were allowed to cheer). The deal was we supported him so the prize money got put into the beer kitty. Wasn’t so lekker being congratulated by the Head Prefect in the after assembly announcements once the staff had left on Monday morning though. Good times…….
Does anyone who watched the NW vs Gwd game have an opinion to share on the NW props and their performance?
KES vs Monnas
1st HS Monument Drew 31 31
2nd HS Monument Lost 0 31
3rd HS Monument Won 27 19
4th HS Monument Won 24 12
16A HS Monument Lost 7 22
16B HS Monument Won 22 12
15A HS Monument Lost 0 78
15B HS Monument Lost 7 36
15C HS Monument Won 17 7
15D HS Monument 15C Lost 7 14
14A HS Monument Lost 10 43
14B HS Monument Won 12 7
14C HS Monument Won 17 15
14D HS Monument Won 33 12
Played: 14
KES won: 7
Monnas won: 6
Drawn: 1
Points for: 214
Points against: 339
Glenwood vs Monnas
1ST 20 MONUMENT 26 LOST
2ND 13 MONUMENT 14 LOST
3RD 42 MONUMENT 22 WON
4TH 75 MONUMENT 0 WON
16A 17 MONUMENT 16A 19 LOST
16B 25 MONUMENT 16B 5 WON
15A 15 MONUMENT 15A 20 LOST
15B 8 MONUMENT 15B 3 WON
15C 10 MONUMENT 15C 14 LOST
14A 20 MONUMENT 14A 19 WON
14B 10 MONUMENT 14B 12 LOST
14C 24 MONUMENT 14C 17 WON
Played: 12
Glenwood won: 6
Monnas won: 6
Points for: 279
Points against: 171
Seems the Glenwood 2nd’s, 3rd’s, 4th’s, under 15A and under 14A would probably beat KES. The 1st and Under16 A would be close.
@Westers: I think the game on the 20th is looking likely to go ahead.
And yes I will be wearing Red this weekend and hoping for a home winner on Goldstones But no Black and White. I don’t want Hilton to get the wrong ideas about who I want to win the game on Stott field. Westville can be the no.1 next year.
Jokes aside, it’s a pity the season has worked out like this. We have no Westville vs Kearsney or Glenwood. We even have a situation where St Charles have bailed on Northwood and DHS were also not keen to reschedule a Northwood match that got canned coz of rain. DHS don’t play George Campbell ever, which is a game I’m sure many would like to see. And GC lost out on an opportunity to play KC at home. So not a memorable season wrt games that should’ve, could’ve but just didn’t happen.
@Grasshopper:
,
Nice article by Northwoood. Had it been Westville I’m sure they wouldve added the U16A victory to that article
Well done to Northwood for what seems to have been a good game.
Seems quite a few of the kzn sides have young sides excluding Westville and Kearsney.
Kearsney, I think, only have 5 grade 11s in their 1st and 2nd sides overall
@Gungets Tuft: jesting aside – in ’88 we shared the lounge with the gardener and the dog – the dog snored
@GreenBlooded: Better than the poor buggers I hosted, they had to sleep under the outside stairs on the M4 facing side of the house. I am not sure if the dog agreed to share his blanket or not. He is a pavement special (the dog, not the kids I hosted) so I am pretty sure he would have been willing to scrum down for ownership!
I didn’t scrimp on breakfast though, they got Science Diet for Medium Breed Juveniles … only the best esor … 8)
@GreenBlooded: I was hosted by Glenwood parents in ’88 when we were down there for a swimming gala against College, Glenwood, DHS etc – we all went to the London Town Pub – ’twas luverley
Why can the game against College be played on a Thursday, but a game against Westville can’t take place??
Also, what happens to the CW players? App they have a warm up game on the weekend after the Thursday college game – will they be allowed to play in the KC College game?
@Grassy: It was a good match. Don’t think anyone left feeling like it was a walkover.
@Roger: No mate. I did.
Seriously – they were well looked after. More than 1 ‘leafy suburb’ in the greater Ethekwini region.
All this going back and forth – KC number 1 in KZN, no doubt about it…
Have a feeling one hell of a performance and finish to the season will come on Saturday against Hilton!
@Grasshopper: I’ve been telling you that for years when you asked why KES and Monnas didn’t play – only was reinstated last year again since 1999. Do yourself a favour and check the results on the KES website – notice how many teams played and the results at B, C, D level (if there was a D team game at all) and 3rds, 4ths etc
That,s how certain Kearsney are no. 1 in KZN
@GreenBlooded: aha – understood – very generous to host 5 – did they sleep on the patio
@Roger: Yep, Monnas is not a traditional fixture (only played them 4 times now) and only 13 games played on the day due to Monnas lack of teams. That is why it’s not a fixture that should be on TV, compare it to DHS vs Glenwood last year or a College vs Glenwood fixture, far better. Hence, my passion for setting up proper fixtures with 28 plus teams on a day with schools like KES and PBHS instead….Monnas seems an A team school only…
Did anyone doubt the Boks would beat Italy on Saturday?
@Roger: Not bad. Would change it slightly:
Kearsney
Glenwood
daylight
College/Westville (to be decided this weekend hopefully)
daylight
Hilton
House
other pond life
Having Monnas for old boys day. Eish. Hope they don’t do something like that again. Very poor turnout. It needs to be College, DHS or Westville. Last year it pumped.
Very balanced and accurate write ups from Northwood, very refreshing compared to some other schools in KZN;
http://www.northwoodschool.co.za/2013/06/10/northwood-rugby-future-looking-bright/
http://www.northwoodschool.co.za/2013/06/10/northwood-1st-hockey-claim-hard-fought-victory-over-glenwood/
@Roger: Rugger. Think bottom half of my avtaar.
@Grasshopper: watched that game on TV – literally three men and their dogs were there. Does Monnas not get the Durban folk juices flowing?
@beet: ok jesting aside, and as Star says – sound impartial wisdom – it has got to be as follows:
Kearsney
daylight
Westville, College, Glenwood tied
daylight
Hilton, Michaelhouse tied
daylight
the rest
@GreenBlooded: what sporting event was that? Cricket?
Question – did, or do, all of Kearsney, Ville, House, Hilton, Glenwood, DHS and Northwood play against George Campbell, or at least have a fixture (even if it was cancelled). I am doing a “round robin” log and need to make sure they are all in. Then we can put this d#ck measuriing contest to rest once the games have been completed. Sorry for Kearsney, DHS, Ville and Glenwood (and perhaps College if we cannae play the Kearsney match after all), if you don’t fulfill the fixture you share the points (2 for a win, 1 for a draw or no match, nada for a loss). PS – It’s a lot closer than you think.
Have left out St Charles as they do not play everybody, as well as the Pinetowns, Empangeni’s, etc. Taking candy from kids doesn’t count.
@beet: You need to hope that College beat Westville this weekend and that the game on the 20th goes ahead against College and Kearsney wins. That might clear the way.
@Grasshopper: You keep talking about missing players. With 18 or 19 in the KZN teams surely you guys have the depth to cover 3 guys out.
With 11 guys in your 1st squad back next year you should have at least 20 in the KZN teams next year.
@Grasshopper: Not sure who you are referring to when you say Westville got rid of their over-aged players. Must be someone I don’t know about.
@Roger: Love it, Glenwood got ‘drilled’ by Monnas 26-20 from an intercept pass and Glenwood had three of their best players missing, Coetzee at 8, Van der Heever at lock and Van Niekerk at prop, also Vermaak during the game. College drilled KES and Glenwood beat College at home in a very significant game, so Glenwood are definitely streaks ahead of KES
Glenwood have 11 guys in the squad of 22 in grade 11 so 2014 should be OK too….
@star: Hosted no less than 5 of them earlier this year. Nice boys – solid citizens in the making.
@Roger: It would be nice to be the one season wonders that everyone agreed should be no.1 though.
@star: Paul did take the Iron Man race, close sprint up the beach against Dias and Bouman. Great athletes all. I think Westville can claim all three – yes?
@ Roger- as always sound impartial wisdom from the Big Smoke.
Look forward already to hosting the Red Army next year.
@GreenBlooded: Kearsney – pffft – one season wonders
You need to fall off your bike every now and then to give you perspective – KES have 11 players in Grade 11 – they will be back next year – season is over now – thank goodness!
@ Gungets- he was a year ahead of me at school the same year as another real character Oscar Chalupski. Besides his surfski exploits I was told that Oscar is one of only 2 men worldwide to have won his countries Senior Ironman competition while being the Junior champ.I believe another Westville boy ( P van A) was attempting to join this elite group but I haven’t had any feedback. Would you know?( as you know the Fouche’s and their cousins the Hs and seem to be in that game)
@ Grassy- I agree that one off games can distort things but I have referred to 4 or 5 games where the better teams will pull clear. That is why points differential is taken into account in determining log outcomes. Yes it was good to see GW and Westville in the front row representing their country and I think with Cooper,Hadebe and Chadwick this trend will continue for the Sharks as well.
@Roger:
The Kearsney okes are gonna have a problem with that logic – hold on, I can hear them coming now………
Where doe that put KES? 18th in Gauteng?
allow me to add my humble opinion. Westville and College have both beaten KES – KES drew with Monnas and Monnas drilled Glenwood at home. Therefore the best in KZN should emerge from the winner of the Westville- College clash – QED
@Gungets: Hope those boys are going to be OK come Saturday. We cannot have those okes from the leafy suburb squirm out of another major fixture this year. Soon people are going to be asking who of significance they have played locally to justify their Top 20 spot? My suggestion: a cocktail of Vitamin B jova’s, African Potatoe, Garlic, Beetroot (Manto was right!) Damac for men (in the purple pack) and Med Lemon. That should do the trick.
@star: We all know you cannot compare the margins of victories between schools, far too many factors eg weather conditions, injuries, home vs away, time of season, derby or not…….the list goes on and on. By the time Framesby played Westville at KERF they had lost all their confidence and a few players. I watched the game their coach had his head in his hands the whole game…….just a very very off day for them. School teams have these sorts of days eg Glenwood vs Drostdy where they let a huge lead go to lose in the end. Anyway, if Westville had just used the agreed age auditor last year Glenwood would be playing them. Glenwood stood their ground as they got badly burnt by the Tom issue where Westville avoided this by using under handed tactics to get rid of their over aged players on the quiet, not kosher boet. Glad to see Marne Coetzee playing well for the SA Under 20’s and packing down with Sti Sithole so school issues out the window….
@Gungets Tuft: He might have been part of the swim team but back then we did not have the national coach and the fancy pool to train in. Sorry, aquatics centre.
@star: I chose not to rise to the bait from GREENMOM. He doesn’t deserve it.
Your stats are spot on and like you, I wouldn’t be so arrogant to say Westville are No 1 in KZN. As GT put it in an earlier blog, home ground could be the difference in many games between the top 4 or 5 sides in KZN.
With regard to the injuries, there were quite a few on Saturday. The most serious looked to be Pieters on the wing who had to be helped off. The others, including McHardy got off under their own steam so I hope they were taken off as a precaution with this weeks game in mind.
If all is well with College this week, Saturday will be the last game of SBR for many of the Westville boys.
@star: Do you mean the Westville boy who drank too much, fell overboard and then couldn’t swim to land, in which case you find them floating in mid-ocean and ask ém how the seagulls are???
Tsk, tsk, tsk – if he had been part of the Ville swimming squad he would have done a 4 x 10km Individual medley to land and still done 2000 sit-ups.
@ Westers- GW were the ones that pulled the plug on the fixture and yet we are being seen as lacking guts and ducking fixtures.We should not have to account for something we had no control over. I think KC did offer us a fixture before our OB day and Westville chose to honor them(OBs) which as Gungets says is a worthy investment. Westville has played who has been put in front of them and since the 2nd half against Outeniqua where it was 7 all have conceded on average single digit points against including several clean sheets and 3 points against DHS and Framesby. The worst local performance was the 17 points against House and so our defense has tightened up and we will need it to be strong on Goldstones. We also have handed the biggest losses this season to NW(45 points), George Cambell(57 points) and Framesby(46 points).To get some perspective KC beat Framesby by 17 points and NW by 30. GW beat Framesby by 2 and NW by 21. Westville also out preformed GW against DHS. I would be arrogant to say that we are therefore deserving of No1 ( especially with Goldstones looming) but we deserve a bit more respect than some bloggers have dished out. What does concern me is that our injuries seem to be mounting and I was told that 4 boys left the field on Saturday( including McHardy) to add to the ones already on the sidelines.And lastly how do you know a boy is from Westville.Just tune into Carte Blanche on a Sunday and there will be some inspirational story to be told about one of them and their positive exploits which are much needed in these grim times.
@Gungets Tuft: Agree 100%. Health first and academics 2nd. Hope for speedy recovery and long term health.
@Westers: Let’s see how it pans out this week, see how many make practice today. Last week Thursday we had 4 1st Fifteen players standing, no front rankers. I think there were something like 5 Open front rankers available. Doctors orders will stand, rugby third priority over their health and the exams which are in high gear this week. Then there are all the CW friendlies on Monday and on the first weekend of the holidays. Lots of obstacles, we will see how it pans out.
@Gungets Tuft:
.
Haha that game was a minor blip
@School
Both the cross country boys and the chess boys are unbeaten this year. Surfers are 2nd in kzn, 1st waterpolo. Had a good 1st term. Climbing won SA Schools champs 3 years ago, Badminton won SA Schools champs 2 years ago
@Westers: 2 minutes past eight I tell you!
@Gungets Tuft: Are your boys likely to be fit for this coming weekend?
@GREENMOM: Bar obviously closed early last night. You should change your Avatar. You are not doing it any justice.
@Jimbo: Not sure about alternative dates offered by Kearsney. I know the 20 June was suggested but Westville boys start exams tomorrow and only finish on Friday 21 June (break up day) so it was never going to be an option. Academics always take priority. It also needs to be noted that Westville never “avoided” playing Glenwood this year.
My suggestion has always been that Westville (and Kearsney) should have made a plan and continued rugby into term 3 and arranged a fixture. A game against Glenwood might also have then been a possibility. But as other sport fixtures for term 3 had already been set this was also never a real option – only wishful thinking from my side.
@WBHS Griffon: We all agree that the Westville vs Kearsney match is a must in determining the final log standings. That’s why its hard to understand why Westville appear to be ducking the chance to reschedule the rain-washed-out fixture. According to the grapevine Westville has declined a number of alternative dates proposed by Kearsney and appear to be happy to avoid playing Glenwood and Kearsney this year. The College vs Kearsney match has been rescheduled for the last day of this term. A date previously offered to Westville. Come on Westville old boys, kick some ass and insist that your school steps up to the plate! You can’t claim top spot if you don’t play the two teams most likely to beat you.
@School: You need to check those soccer results for last year again, Raw Cup. Just saying.
I see it’s that time of the day again – 2 minutes past 8. Met Eish Ja..
What is the over all best school in KZN based on. Not saying DHS is it but here’s my 2 cents worth
•athletics(1st in KZN)
•D&D(dominated most of the 2000’s last won last win actually O8 not 07
•basket ball(1st in SA)
•cross country(between1&2 in KZN)
•Academics.top33matrics have half full or honors(kashmeil beseru(1st in SA 2011)
•soccer(undefeated locally last year)
•cultral activities I know for a fact not many come close.
Just what I know we good at.
Please don’t right school off because their Rugby hasn’t done well for most of 5year short years.
#First in durban still in front
@WBHS Griffon: Didn’t know that, it has always been thrown at me, and it is not that far off the mark. I suppose it counts for many schools, I have never met a House or Hilton boy that didn’t pop out their school pretty quickly. Hell, Hilton boys will shake your paw and say, “How do you do, Bob Smith, Hilton, 1949!!”.
@GREENMOM: oh yeah, like we not going to take any comment you make with a pinch of salt! Have you even been to any of these schools? Actually, you will not find better mannered students than at Westville, Maritzburg College or Kearsney!
@Gungets Tuft: that’s not a Maritzburg College saying, that’s stolen from Grey College. Their saying is “how do you know someone is from Grey College, they tell you”. Don’t hijack an age old Grey Collge saying, come on!
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Support Housefly’s comment. The DHS boys do impress with their behaviour and actions.There is a positive vibe in the air which differs from the arrogance experienced at other schools- when they still had the guts to play the best schools!. Guts requires integrity and a positive outlook on life.
It is always a pleasure to visit DHS with the excellent facilities and well organised and clean grounds. The same can not be said of the snobbish participants in the “rich” areas. Money don’t teach manners, discipline or guarantee being good sportsmen. Unfortunately it seems its mostly the opposite patterns that seem to foster at some .DHS sets an example which is not equalled by W or K boys. Keep up the good work under difficult circumstances!
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Agree 100%. Dig enough and you can find fault at any school. Remember the primary purpose of a school is to educate, as in prepare them for tertiary education, or give them enough to make a life without a tertiary education. Turning them into gentlemen, solid citizens, remains a parents job. Abdicate that to the school and you are looking for trouble. All the government schools under discussion do a fine job of that. Northwood had 2 top 10 students last year, DHS had a good pass rate.
If my son had not gone to College then I consider Northwood a good school to get him educated. Next would be DHS, it’s the next closest, followed by Glenwood and Westville. None of them going to leave him short of a start in life. Sport follows all that. DHS will be back, sports wise, quicker than people think. Their main problems exist in perception, fix that at the same time as fixing the grounds and sport. Again, same as with Northwood, fix the Old Boys, they are your best marketing tool.
There is a saying that goes around, “how can you tell when a man is from College”. Answer, “you don’t, he will tell you”. I don’t think people say that in a complimentary way, but it illustrates my point about Old Boys, get them on-side and you are positively marketing your school daily, and it doesn’t cost sports bursaries or ad campaigns. JMHO, I am sure there are College boys who don’t feel like I do, but our Reunions show that there are enough.
Horse #1 – stay with it, I have seen improvements, just resist the temptation to do too much out of town shopping, that will undo the recovery very quickly
@Westers:
this all goes in cycles anyway.
I do not mind talk about sports and how School is doing in them no matter which other school its in relation to…what I do mind are comments made about the school in general.
Ugh man go ahead and trash the sport
And yes, I agree, hockey and swimming have gone down miserably in the past few years. And for these two sports, its not a case of DHS being unable to get boys but rather a lack of focus for these two sports which concerns me.
I know of at least 3 WBHS swimmers whom would have liked to swim for DHS had they been offered scholarships by the school.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: It’s not only rugby. Your hockey and swimming results have also been poorer over the last couple of years.
Like I have mentioned previously, I am not gloating. I don’t think it is good for KZN school sport to have only a few strong schools. We need schools like DHS and Northwood to become competitive.
But I take your point. Apologies for any offence caused and I will no longer make comments about DHS unless it relates directly to competition with Westville.
Its funny how DHS is being used as an example so many times for a ‘school that’s gone downhill’ all because of results in rugby. Fine, DHS was behind in the whole recruiting business and they’ve paid for that but that doesn’t warrant for all these comments about the school.
The school still thrives under the tough conditions including the area. It still produces a lot of proud gentleman and great leaders and some very good sportsmen including its fair share in academia.
But then again people only see what they want to see, that’s how its always been and that’s how it’ll continue to be which is quite a sad thing.
I will be the first to agree that the pervious leadership at the school wasn’t the greatest but I can’t concur with these comments on that the school is a shadow of its former self due to what happens on the rugby field and a few other incidents thhat mightve happened.
For those who were at Kearsney if you noticed you would have seen the obvious change in behaviour etc of the DHS boys, during the 1st and 2nd XV game, every parent that walked past the stands where DHS was seated was greeted with what almost looked like a mexican wave with every single boy standing up and greeting. I know because I got two of those mexican waves
. Walked past the Kearsney boys and the result wasn’t exactly the same…
This negativity by some bloggers is uncalled for and does leave things in bad taste so gentlemen let’s not.
I honestly don’t mind people saying all that in terms of rugby but let’s not target the whole school
@Gungets Tuft: You are right about the “rich areas”.
Schools have become more like businesses there days. Those that seek continuous improvement thrive while the rest begin to disintegrate. Even those with a long history must not rely on tradition alone to keep them going. DHS is an unfortunate example of this and I fear that if they do not get it back quickly they may never do so.
As elitist as some (one) of the posts seems to be, what is evident is the passion and patriotism of us old boys/parents. The lists of D&D gala performances, 90’s winning streaks of rugby sides, status of academic successes etc, one of the old traditional schools in our region remains constantly silent. sadly. Durban needs a Northwood that is back on track, from a school ethos, Old Boy commitment and involvement, to academics and sport. I rarely hear old boys talking passionately or supportively about Northwood, and although it came about via a forced marriage, the greater region needs it. They have fantastic facilities, they are very well position and have a solid history. It’s a must that just as DHS is trying to do a Houdini and counter the socio economic issues its faced and the leadership vacuum that has surrounded it, so must Northwood, but it needs the support of its Old Boys.
@Gungets Tuft: That is probably true nowdays – but the High School part of Clifton didn’t exist back in the day. But nowdays that would be an obvious match-up for a famly.
@Grasshopper: You mean a typical DHS boy would have his sister at a private school while he slums it at a government school? Surely not?
@Westers: DHS’s sister school is Durban Girls College only a few K away….
DGC ladies hang out with the Clifton boys. Don’t forget Maris Stella in the good girls schools stakes. In Durban North Northlands Girls and Danville have done really good things on the last 5 years.
@Westers: It’s called Ridge Park College nowdays – different uniform as well.
http://ridgeparkcollege.co.za/
@Westers: Alright then, perhaps my mates are exaggerating somewhat. Next time they try that I will tell them dinner is on them, clearly they have the wonga to afford it
Is it just me that wonders where this impression comes from that Westville is this “rich area”. There are parts of Durban a driver and a 7-iron from Glenwood (Ridge Road and Morningside) that command home prices of R10 bar plus, the average in Durban North around Northwood is in the R2.5 to R4 bar. Seems to me that the relative wealth around the school has very little little to do with performance. It is probably much more to do with the internal structures at the school. Glenwood do well at sport because their sports structures are good, Westville the same thing, probably backed up by academics as well. Time, methinks, for credit where it is due. In my work I do my utmost to copy from the best, or at least deconstruct their methods, so that I can see where “best practice” might be found. Daft not to. If you find success is based on something you would rather not be involved in, so be it, find your route, or use what you can and adapt. And through it all, remember the things you cannot buy, like reputation and honour, these are things earned over time, through generations of doing the right things right. Hard earned, lost quickly, tightrope stuff.
@Westers: Yeah – sorry about that mate. I have been working really hard at getting rid of my “anti-Westville sentiment” and then along comes Griffon with his snooty attitude and resets me back to square one.
Nope – DGHS is Glenwood’s recognised sister school. DHS? Not sure – I think it was Berea Girls High which was one block up the road. I say ‘was’ cos I don’t think it exists anymore. About 500m back towards Berea Road from Overport City on Ridge Road.
@GreenBlooded: No, your comment about WGHS – other than being the sister school of WBHS.
I would have thought DGHS would be the sister school of DHS.
@Westers: yep, Westville is pretty central so can see why parents in Highway choose it. The Glenwood area has gone down a bit, but within the grounds it’s still good. Unfortunately schools like DHS and Glenwood cannot stop what is happening around them just what is going on within. If I had a boy in Durban I would try send him to Kearsney or Clifton, but due to cost it would come down to Westville or Glenwood….
@GreenBlooded: DGHS, look at the area it’s in, make sense?
@GreenBlooded: That’s a ridiculous assumption and you know it.
@Westers: DGHS? A pity if that school has gone to the dogs. It was right up there when I was at school – our sister school actually.
@GreenBlooded: You left a smiley face off the second part of your last post.
@Grasshopper: DGC is a good school. Just so you know, I live in the Upper Highway area. If my son had not gone to Westville as a day boy next choice would have been Glenwood – not any of the Upper Highway schools. If he had wanted to board College would have topped the list.
When making our choice I must be honest and say there were two main criteria, academics top priority and sport second – not for results, but for giving the average boys sports opportunities. Westville academics and distance to travel made it a no brainer.
@Grasshopper: Still top notch I would imagine. I don’t really follow the girls schools but I think it’s fair to say that the good ones are congregated in Maritzburg – Wykham, St Annes, St Jonhs DSG, Epworth in the private sector and Girls High. Plenty of decent stock for the College Boys to prey on……..
In Durban, DGC and St Mary’s would be top of the heap of the privates. Westville Girl’s obviously top notch (other than being the sister school of Westville Boys) in the government schools and I think DGHS is still pretty good.
But hey – what do I know about Girls Schools?
@Gungets Tuft: They ask for annual payments of R1k to R3k – not per month. But is not compulsory and I know many who do not pay. I must be honest and say I have never felt pressured to pay.
@GreenBlooded: spot on! Always got on well with the College, DHS and Northwood guys, also Pretoria Boys High guys on tour, down to earth genuine guys who didn’t care if you came from a single parent family that was not wealthy. Wealth does not guarantee a good character, good manners, creativity etc. My brother in laws still think they better than me because they went to Westville and grew up on Jan Hofmeyer drive…
@GreenBlooded: if we move to Durban my girl will go to where her mom went, Durban Girls College. How is that these days?
@Grasshopper: Wouldn’t consider any of those schools – they are less than 10 years old most of them. Something about an old school with 100+ years of history and ethos behind it………….
@WBHS Griffon: If you really want to know where the anti-Westville sentiment from Glenwood people comes from, look no further than your own posting and the ‘typical Westville attitude’ contained therein. I’m better than you because of where I live, what car my daddy drives and where my mommy buys my cornflakes. You will never find that elitist attitude in a Glenwood boy. Could never understand in my 5 years there why we could get along and make mates with our opponents from College, DHS, Northlands etc but not the Westville okes. Even the Hilton, Michaelhouse and Kearsney okes – where you would expect an attitude – were down to earth and easy okes to talk to. Worked it out years later – Westville okes think they are from the upper crust, which they are not.
@WBHS Griffon: The reference to the trust was not a criticism, it was a compliment. That you can get a high percentage of parents to pay it is admirable, they obviously believe they are getting value. Academics is good at Westville (amongh other things, lest you think I am criticising again!!), most Govt schools wish they could emulate that. I think a boarding school with 400 kids is going to battle, it is one downside of the boarding life. I know, I am busy grinding through a weekend playing catch up with my son.
Extra funds from parents is going to be difficult for almost all Govt schools, there has the be a “value proposition”for them to buy into. Therein lies the rub, finding that proposition.
@WBHS Griffon: yeah, jukskei is the best in KZN ;-). The Highway area is going downhill quickly, my parents still live there and plenty more crime. Hillcrest, Gillets etc also not so hot, in fact most of Durban. Seems anyone with a brain is going north coast/Ballito, but not many school options up there barring Umhlanga college, Ashton and Trinityhouse….pity no traditional schools. Oh well will send my girl to Herschel down here in Cape Town…
@Grasshopper: ..maybe add table tennis and juksei to your list while you at it.
Settled, I’ll send my kid to school in the Westville, Kloof, Hillcrest highway area over lower umbilo / Queensborough that’s for sure – definitely don’t want my child being exposed to all of that too early on in life!
@WBHS Griffon: Westville have not been tops in KZN for a while, the girls have that crown. Westville didn’t get a 100% pass rate last year and voted tops in SA once back in 2009 based on two subjects, maths and science. There are actually many other subjects out there. Also, what is wrong with Glenwood academics, top 10 in KZN is not bad especially when many of the kids come from less affluent families and don’t have all the extra lessons etc. Glenwood are actually doing really well considering where some of the boys come from. As for sport Glenwood is not only good at rugby, been top in tennis for a while, hockey, athletics, surfing, squash, baseball, target shooting, waterpolo, swimming, paddling all top 4 in KZN. Tennis and baseball have been top for many years. Anyway, my point is Glenwood is different to Westville but not any better or worse than Westville, different strokes for different folks. If you want your kid to see all walks of life and keep grounded, send him to Glenwood.
@GreenBlooded: TH is certainly not going to back down to TK that’s for sure.
When you look at a headmasters all round impact at a school, TH has no peer. Academics is still top in KZN and a variety of other sports are now top in the province.
Glenwood have made great strides in focusing primarily on rugby over the last 10 years, but, academics and a few other sports leave a lot to be desired, therefore it’s hard to argue against what TH has achieved in both new initiatives and maintaining dominance in other areas in which we’ve always lead the way.
@Gungets Tuft: The WBHS trust has been going since way before TH took over as Headmaster. The Trust was definitely running in the ’80’s, probably not to the extent that it operates today, but, it was not designed by TH, lets make one thing clear. No matter what it was called, at the end of the day it’s still money being put back into the school.
31k / year is not a lot of money for the value you get by sending your son to Westville, that probably explains why is was rated top boys public school in SA a few times, right?
All respect to College though, they probably have the strongest Old Boys club and have lead the way with trust funds and contributing back to the school for decades.
A “Trust” is probably tough for most people in Queensborough or Umbilo to afford as school fees are so high these days, so they may not quite get the same financial Old Boy support as other schools.
@Westers: R31K is the fees, you have left out the Educational Trust which is “voluntary”but …
“While the day-to-day running costs of the School are covered by the School Fee, the development of the campus and technological facilities have to be provided by the Educational Trust. Although contribution is voluntary, all parents are expected to invest in the present and future success of the School by contributing an amount per pupil per annum to the Westville Boys’ Educational Trust.”
The school website does not specify how much the expected voluntary amount is, my mates tell me that a R1000 payment monthly is on the mark.
It’s a good way of doing it, designed by an accountant
, because it is a tax deductable amount due to it being an educational trust, so the actual cost to most will be only 60% of that, the rest funded by tax refunds.
College do something similar with the College Foundation but it comes without the moral suasion, not sure the uptake is going to R1,200,000 a month, or even R600,000 a month if only 50% of the families pony up.
@Gungets: Agree with you, except there’s more than one new kid on the block and some are making big impacts already.
@Westers: It also depends what you regard as a good leader. TH was one of the leaders who failed dismally to resolve a simple dispute – the end result of which was that nearly 900 boy did not get to play a rugby match this year. Leadership? Hmmmmm.
@Westers: yep, it’s a matter of opinion. TK and TH have very different styles of leadership. I reckon headmasters should have a max of 10 years at each school so things don’t get stale. Fresh ideas and styles every decade keeps a school moving and evolving, just my opinion…..TK has been there a while now…
@Grasshopper: WBHS Griffon said TH was top school leader in KZN – not Westville is top school.
IMHO he is right but it is not measurable so each to his own opinion.
@Gungets Tuft: Fees this year were R30k. Extras are not big unless you pay for a lot of sports tours – usually A team only.
Glenwood vs Northwood/Northlands/Beachwood (since 1955)
Played: 51
Won: 37
Lost: 11
Drawn: 4
% Win: 73%
Glenwood results; http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/sites/default/files/vs%20Northwood%208th%20June.pdf
@WBHS Griffon: yep, like we do most years ;-)
Did Glenwood end up beating Northwood this year?
@Gungets Tuft: yeah, he said 60 so maybe 75% funding. He owns his own successful business so pocket change for him. I hope to do the same in the next few years…
@Henkies:
1st lost 23-3
2nd lost 19-9
16A lost 12-3 to a good Hilton side
@Grasshopper: Westville fees are now R40K a year, about 30% more than the other govt schools. Paying for 2 kids is costing your BIL a lot more than R60K
@WBHS Griffon: Not debatable? ……. there’s a new kid on the block and time is going to tell 8)
@WBHS Griffon: no chance better than Hilton, MHS and Kearsney and slightly ahead against the gov schools due to academics, which is strengthened by a large Asian community….
Thanks Jordaan, glad you can see how obvious the little jeslosy thing is. Spoken like a true gentlemen sir.
When Hall sets his mind on any initiative, Westville almost always lead the way, a brilliant business and accounting mind. Head and shoulders the top school leader in KZN, that’s not even debatable!
Grassy right ok so there were some narrow losses for Glenwood in 91. Amazing how just a few points can turn what could be a great season into a fairly average one. Still to beat College in the 90’s was a huge prize which can make a season. I heard a lot about that 93 Dale side. Seemed to give everyone a klap that year. Jeepers. We drew 10-10 with Dale in 94 at the Kokstad festival and they were a tough bunch that year as well.
WBHS Griffon yes our 93 tight five was huge and we had big aggressive loosies as well. What I would do for a 20-3 win against Westville these days man. What year did you matriculate ?
Horsey how did we get on against Hilton today? Great results for the u14’s and 15’s but I’ hoping our firsts manage to to limit the damage today and not catch too huge a hiding.
@Gungets Tuft: yep about 18% of 220 boys, not sure they are all 100%. Also most are probably funded by old boy money. My brother in law pays for 2 kids fees at Westville a year, circa R50k and their sports trips and stationery, so R60k plus a year….
Grassy
Glenwood usually a distant 2nd.
And now DHS is winning the Athletics meets
As for swimming, it usually takes 1 great age-group to start something special. And that’s what happened at WBHS.
For DHS the last ‘special’ group they had was their 2007 swimming side.(U19) I remember them being the reason why DHS pipped westville in the D and D gala that year. A super-swim by DHS cappie Wes Gilchrist in the 5x50m free(last race of the day) after DHS had been behind the whole relay won DHS the d and d for the last time.
The Westville oke mustve been about 15m ahead when Gilchrist swam in…as far as I know Chad had the same effect at Westville.
They’ve had a good run but swimmers are very loyal to their clubs.
And with Action Swim academy so close to Glenwood now, I think we might see more and more top swimmers going to that green place…
@Grasshopper: 40 bursaries in each grade is 18% of the boys, 20%-25% for Westville. Eeisch. At last count it was just under 10% at College. I know at College at least 12 of the 22 were privately funded by the likes of Allan Grey. Is this the same at the other schools or do the fee payers subsidise the others?
@Jordaan: it’s the truth, my brother in law has ploughed 50k into the pot alone. But all schools stay afloat from old boys money, not sure how that can be a stab in the back. Glenwood’s new pavilion is old boy money, nothing wrong with that. Westville needs the money for 60 grade 8 bursaries so does Glenwood for their 40….
@Grasshopper: just couldn’t resist a final stab in the back about money, unbelievable, “Will the real Glenwood supporters please stand up”!
@Jordaan: also, if you read all my posts you would see I rate Westville as the best all round school in KZN, followed by College and Glenwood very close behind. For me Glenwood would obviously have my preference.
@Jordaan: boet, it’s all in jest. My 4 best mates are Westville Old Boys and my two brother in laws are Westville Old Boys. I played 2 years in the WOB under 20 side, I lived in Westville for 10 years and worked at the Westville hotel. I know it well and always have banter with my mates who outnumber me at braai’s, even they admit Westville’s recent success is bought from their money, they loving it…..
I think we should be giving Westville’s swimming programme a little more credit then this Grasshopper guy is making out. It’s a process to attract the top swimmers to your school, you don’t just get a good coach and start winning. We’ll end up following the lead from Westville and hopefully start winning in the near future.
You appear to have a little personal grudge against Westville that’s pretty clear on this blog. Get yourself together!
Looks like Kearsney and Westville are the top dogs in an otherwise dull looking Natal league.
Athletics D&D – Glenwood dominated from 1989 to 1994….6 in a row!
1991
1) Glenwood
2) DHS
3) Westville
4) Pinetown
5) Kearsney
6) Northwood
7) New Forest
1992
1) Glenwood
2) DHS
3) Westville
4) Pinetown
5) Kearsney
6) Northwood
7) New Forest
1993
1) Glenwood
1994
1) Glenwood (6 times Champions in a row)
2) Westville
3) Northwood
4) DHS
5) Pinetown
6) Kearsney
1995
1) Pinetown
2) Glenwood
3) Westville
4) DHS
5) Northwood
1996
No longer a D&D between schools just individual champs, sad days but the Octangular & Pentagular still happened.
Swimming D&D
1991
1) Northwood
2) Kearsney
3) DHS
4) Glenwood
5) Pinetown
6) Westville
7) Marist
8) Northwood B
9) DHS B
1992
1) Glenwood
2) DHS
3) Kearsney
4) Northwood
5) Westville
6) Pinetown
7) Northwood B
8) Marist
9) DHS B
1993
1) DHS
2) Glenwood
3) Northwood
4) Kearsney
5) Westville
6) Pinetown
7) Kloof
8) Northwood B
9) Marist
10) DHS B
1994
1) DHS
2) Northwood
3) Glenwood
4) Kearsney
5) Westville
6) Pinetown
7) Northwood B
8) Kloof
9) Hillcrest
10) Marist
1995
1) DHS
2) Northwood
3) Glenwood
4) Kearsney
5) Westville
6) Pinetown
7) Kloof
8) Northwood B
9) Hillcrest
10) Carmel College
1996
1) DHS
2) Northwood
3) Kearsney
4) Glenwood
5) Westville
6) Pinetown
One can see DHS, Northwood and Glenwood dominated the early 90’s in the pool, with Kearsney 4th and Westville 5th. Westville were never powerful in the pool, so this recent strength is all done to the coach attracting the best….
@Henkies: 20-3 at DHS in ’93, remember that game, you guys had a monster pack – I was surprised the score wasn’t higher.
Westville and Glenwood just never had the big forwards to compete with College and DHS in those days.
@Henkies: They did have a big pack with Leyton Pardey, John Botha, Dom Sunjka, Neil Carlisle and Ivor Wynne. They beat College 12-11, lost to Kearsney (7-12), Westville (14-21), Michaelhouse (9-15), Northwood (0-9), Hilton (10-13) & College (16-22). Also beat Pinetown (11-9), St Stithians (13-10) & Port Natal (12-6). Also losses to Dale (9-38), Queens (17-21), Grey PE (10-15) and Pretoria Boys High (3-6). Some close games there that could have gone either way, Dale were streaks ahead though….
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Great result boet, just hope the boys can now carry that through into the opens – be nice to have a winning DHS first XV again.
@Grasshopper: Sure, as long and you and GreenMom and the green gang tone down on the blatantly anti-Westville sentiment, all is good. Respect people!
@Gungets Tuft:
Wow that Northwood result is BIG! Unpredictability of the U16 season continues I guess!!
College U16A 12-10 against Kearsney
U15A College win 32-12
Northwood U16A beat Glenwood 20-15. Big, big result.
2nds making a game of it at 0-19 at half time
DHS U15A win 34-7 vs Hilton College
Correction:
14A won 38-0
15A leading 29-0 in 2nd half
DHS U14A just won 25-0
Grassy what sort of results did the 91 side have? I remember watching them play and they had a huge pack, beating DHS, and we had a pretty decent side that year. I would have thought the Glenwood 91 team would have beaten most other KZN teams.
Glenwood vs Westville (1991 to 1996)
1991: lost 14-21
1992: lost 7-8
1993: lost 5-21
1994: won 20-3
1995: lost 17-24
1996: lost 23-24 (my year where Ryan Pretorious converted a last minute penalty to win, contentious penalty too)
You see the 90’s were our worst year where Westville got most of their wins. In swimming and athletics it was a different story. The Westville okes mock Atilla Dudas, but he was the quickest in KZN at that point, beating Matthew Quinn in the 100m, running 10.69 on grass…..
@Grasshopper: And so did College, Darien Townshend, member of the epic 100m relay Gold team. Donovan Cech got a bronze that year in rowing
OK – eventually found the source of the commotion. One of our very own. Eish!!!
Some serious handbags flying here last night. What happened?
Just a note on Westville swimming. There is NO coaching at Westville. Most of the swimmers are bought and train at the various swimming clubs – most notably at Seagulls under Graham Hill. The only ‘coaching’ at Westville is that time trials are held once a week where the relay teams are picked and/or tweaked. I know this from the larynx of a current Westville swim team member so don’t shoot me down. Westville do not produce swimmers. They buy the best swimmers and win the galas with them which attract more swimmers. I don’t think Chad Le Clos ever swam a training length in the Westville pool.
@WBHS Griffon: you relatively new to this site unless you were under another disguise. People on this blog know my comments should be taken with a pinch of salt, I’m a Westville fan and probably actually know you. Anyway, Glenwood has produced an Olympic swimmer, Kenneth Cawood at Barcelona….
@Rhino howsit. In 93 DHS had one of their strongest sides and won 20-3 against Westville. We beat College home and away that year. Maybe you had a few too many beers at the Wimbledon Slug and Lettuce tonight
ha ha
Hey wbhs griffon
not Ryan S..
@Rhino: The Class of ’93 is a dead giveaway, I’ll ping you on Facebook boet – Lol!
@ Gungets
For sure – thanks for the info. Im sure there will be ripples as you said before but i still stand firm that WBHS will hold its firm grip for some time. and more so i hope we do.
cheers . hope u guys do well in the morning.
@wbhs griffon
correct i am – how u conclude so ? hilarious !
@Rhino: Don’t underestimate what a good coaching structure achieves. College didn’t get a lot of Durban boys in those days, they had a rugby culture and probably one of the best coaches SA has seen. If Skonk had been in his prime now he would have had a top franchise coaching job. College made rugby players, it was not the other war around.
My point about swimming is that I think Westville have had it their own way for some time. Not taking anything away from them, that did not happen by accident (just like Clifton’s water polo), but Glenwood started focussing on acquatics last year when La Marque arrived and are expanding on that by hiring a top coach. Not going to say who because I was told in confidence and will not lose a friend by spilling that, but rest assured the rather incestuous swimming community knows and it is already affecting decisions for schools next year. Swimming is very responsive to good training, unlike some other sports which require some basic talents like cricket and hockey, or size like rugby. Even the little guys can improve rapidly. The other thing that makes it hard to hold on to swimmers is that 4 good ones in an age group fills an A team. I imagine talented kids would rather swim in an A gala for a slightly weaker school that is just starting to flex its muscles. Just my opinion, perhaps I am wrong.
I carry no brief for GW or Westville, just yapping on.
Bed time, need to get to KC for the U16 matches tomorrow.
@Rhino: Are you Ryan?
@ wbhs griffon
when u finish? 96?
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Good for them, let”s talk when they start producing a few Olympic swimmers.
@ Horsy
For sure : Project “lets try copy Westville as we so jealous of them” – lol……….. im laughing out loud.. only messing ( ish )
Yip! I think swimming is now Glenwoods new project and they’ve made very big strides in the past year or two. Their U14 this year are very goood and if word is anything to go by, they’ll have another competetive bunch next year as well!
@ gungets
I am listening to you and all with wide ears i can assure you.. being in the UK i am unfortunately less active in wbhs activity and so its nice to hear whats going on………………. i am pretty sure the other top schools are out there to topple us and i fully understand this as its one sport we have totally dominated everyone countrywise and this is a given and known fact… and of course no one ( besides us ) wants to let this continue for too much longer……. what is the news then btw? if its open then pray tell me please ? I dount immediately success though as everything takes time ………… Westville , as you have said. were very astute in swimming success and good for WBHS….. why not..!!! Westville actually by tradition has always had good top notch swimmers even back in my year we were good but yes not to this last 10 years or so degree…..
GW seem to use as a pedestal in some ways and perhaps us them too in some ways and throw in College too in the mix…… ag.. we shall see .. i can assure you though WBHS will not lose the mantle easily.. never… those in the know who wanna swim at the best will go westville.. its like in the 90 and 80’s.. the best rugger players in natal would end up at college generally…….
@Rhino: Used the facilities, on his own program. Hey, I think Westville have done brilliantly with their swimming program. Like I said 199/200 will have the Westville swimming program turn them into very good swimmers, and result In the kind of success you have had. It’s no accident, nor luck, saying so would be rude and wrong. But, it can be emulated, and with the right program swimmers come on very quickly. Westville are going to have some very serious competition from Glenwood almost immediately. The news is out there, they will be getting top Durban U14’s straight away. 3 years and Westville could be losing galas
@wbhs griffon
No stress bro……… all fun even if we can all be annoying ;-)
have a good one..
@Rhino: Anyhow, I’m done with this Grassy guy, he’s just going to keep coming back over and over with his little Westville jealousy crack.
Have a great weekend everyone.
So what else boys ? Had a few vinos now and its been a cracking day here in the United island of Britain :-)
12-5 to us i think it was……….
@Rhino: Next he will try and draw you in to an argument that TK is better and has done more than TH – seen that one coming from this guy a mile away!
@ gungets
he trained there too. not sure of to what extent though……..
93 was at DHS and we won ! so was i and decently. i played i know.. unless my age is blurring my memory.lol
@WBHS Griffon: Also Glenwood in ’93 was away, I clearly remember Clyde flattening the big Glenwood showman Attila Doodas right in front of the Glenwood grandstand – the crowd got very hostile
@WBHS Griffon: I will bet Chad didn’t train at the school either. He alternated between sucking chlorine with Hill and salt at Durban Surf. Just ask, you will find out that I am right. Westville might attract them to the school, 199/200 will be very good school swimmers, and train at school and club, the Chad’s will compete for the school but not train there, their program is just too specialized to be accommodated. It’s the same with the golfers, surfers as Grassy pointed out. I would be tempted to say paddlers too but there is a team culture there with doubles every second year.
@grassy
what do you mean ” TH v TK and we all know who will win that one” – WELL NO WE DONT.. ure comment is meaning TK will…….. how can you say this.. sorry but pathetic statement.. who knows what goes on with them all anyhow. You yourself have dissed TK and other GW people have too and even heard words of time he moves on.. so ? explain? ag ..
@Rhino: Well of course these Glenwood guys just want to downplay Westville’s success in the pool.
Of course it’s more than the coach and school facilities do play a huge role.
Agreed, let’s move on, by the way DHS ’93 was at DHS and we lost, I’m 100% sure as I was at the game.
@WBHS Griffon: Westville had a bog standard 25m school when the Chads were there, it was the coach….simple as. Andrew Stewart has his work cut out next year…
@Grasshopper: Not the best analogy as swimming programs have a little more to do with the school than surfing, which is totally individual and largely dependent on how far you live from the beach, right?
No doubt both Chad’s were on bursaries, but, you need the facilities to attract them there in the first place, right?
@WBHS Griffon: boet, my family live across the road and seen the faculties, they nice but not mind blowing, not even indoor. I would have done an Olympic size pool. Very cramped spectator stands etc. Glenwood could use other pools in the area no problem…anyway good luck to Westville…..DHS and Northwood are also upping their aquatics game….
@ WHHS griffon
Negative i was 93 with clyde and boys and we beat dhs @ dhs……….!
92 was played at westville and dhs won the game by an intercept pass which sealed the game basically via a harding intercepted pass…we on same page here?
i was 93…………..
all good memories and i remember being on the upper v GW… but alas we must be boring a lot of other bloggers by now lol
Re swimming……….. time will tell but i do agree it will take more than just a coach .. we have always been strong at swimming and also chad did train at westville BH and also at Westville swimming pool ( who in the mix doesnt ) – go there at 6am and u will see…
@Grasshopper: Money always helps, you guys need to have another serious sit down with Ivan Clarke if you want facilities like Westville.
@Gungets Tuft: totally agree! Same can be said for surfing at Jordy, it was not Glenwood that made him a great surfer it was his talent and hours of practice, but we will claim him :-)
@Gungets Tuft: Agreed to a certain extend, but, there have just been so many World Class swimmers in recent years, Chad Ho, Calvyn Justus etc, with the ratio of world class swimmers we are producing, it’s hard to believe the school has zero to do with it, surely then they would be more scattered around the province from various schools?
@WBHS Griffon: nope, not Village at all, but with 60 plus bursaries a year in grade 8 you would hope they have good sports….
@WBHS Griffon: for 3 more years, that is it. Enjoy it whilst it lasts, TH has a big battle with TK coming up and we all know who will win that, lambs to slaughter. Accountant vs shrewd operator…..
@Grasshopper: Oh, and are Westville a “Village School” now? Lol! Just now you going to start backing up GreenMom.
@WBHS Griffon: Good team perhaps, but gold medalists are not made in school pools, sorry to burst that. They are made in private coaching sessions and hours (and hours) in the pool. It helps to be around that culture, but if Chad had relied on school facilities and coaching he would have been playing water polo by Grade 11. Trust me, I know this. I am willing to bet that Chad did not even attend swimming training at Westville school.
Talk about the school team, tops, but Olympic medals, naaa, not swimming, too individual.
@WBHS Griffon: need to check 92 results, that was a seriously huge Glenwood pack with KZN prop Leyton Pardey, John Botha and KZN schools captain David Terblanche, they just lost to Corne Krige’s Paarl Boys….
@Grasshopper: Good luck in trying to play catch up to Westville’s swimming program, might take you a good few years! It’s not as simple as you make it out to be. Trevor Hall ain’t gonna let that one slip to Glenwood, that I can promise you! We will continue to stay on top of swimming that’s for sure.
@WBHS Griffon: nope they weren’t rugby only started in the 1860’s. Proper rugby fixtures started early 1900’s. Anyway, only guys who have gone to a traditional school will understand. 4 generations at Glenwood, something special….
@WBHS Griffon: Gave Glenwood a klap in ’92 and ’93 too, with Clyde Kemp giving the Glenwood wing a good smack in the ’93 game – good old days man!
@WBHS Griffon: nope all we need to do is buy the Olympic success like Westville has. Best coach attracts best swimmers, Westville didn’t have the aquatics centre during their successful years, just a bog standard pool. These elite swimmers don’t even swim at the school they swim at their clubs pools with their coaches. Terence Parkin used to train in the Westville Virgin pool…
@Rhino: I remember DHS in your year, De Bruin, Manson-Bishop, seriously good DHS team – think they gave us 20 points that year and we were 5 points down against College on Goldstones with 5 minutes to go and ended up losing by 20 with 2 charge downs from Roland De Marigny restarts.
@ horsy
Its crazy man – when we played dhs we knew we in for a big game.. now its becoming like playing pinetown and no disrespect but that sucks………… I drive past there a few years ago and looked about and though eish.. not looking good.
I remember once in std 9…….. i met an old mate of mine who was playing 2nds for dhs and we bumped into each other before match.. he says .. “ah but ure at a 2nd rate school compared to us (dhs) – i laughed and said NEGATIVE.. but in the day we were seen as beatable more than not.. but i can assure you we won and i looked at him and he nervously looked away.. i smiled!
@Grasshopper: …and there were some shools playing rugby in South Africa 50 years before Glenwood, and others 50 years before them, who cares! To us older guys age is just a number, right!
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Lol, maybe they need to go on the Glenwood “programme” – We all know what that means don’t we!
@Rhino: never in awe, we have something very special, over 100 years of history and some of the best grounds and facilities in KZN. Super 15 sides love training on the Glenwood fields. Glenwood was playing rugga and swimming for 50 years before Westville sprouted its young roots….
@WBHS Griffon:
Yeah the DHS boys haven’t really bulked up. Think the school needs to put its A team players into a programme!
They are a talented bunch though
@Grasshopper: Best you guys go and ask Ivan Clarke for some more money, because believe me, if you want to produce Olympic Gold medalists and probably the best swimming team in SA, you going to need the facilities to do it and more than just a “Graham Hill” type coach with a good eye for talent.
@ grassy @ wbhs griffon
HAHA – i was in matric when u boys in std6/7 – i was 93 !
@Grassy
lol cramped area – u right though.. we have run out of space.. and its annoying as in my year we had the option of the bottom area by the highway and we should have taken that land .. instead duplexes were built.. westville has no more space unless we knock down houses lol..but alas we have TH.. he will keep us on the upper path…………….its nice to see you grovelling though in awe at us..lmao.. only kidding.
@WBHS Griffon: yes Mumford and sons, our arch enemies. Bizzel, Bircher and Mumford huge at junior levels, by matric they were small….we lost at under 13 about 40-0, by matric by a point due to a dodgy decision….
@Rhino:
But then again, that Hilton side only has about 3 or so grade 11s. DHS has 11/15. You know what, I too think tomorrow will be bad but not as any other weekend of the season due to the special occasion for School!
Yeah it needs to be sorted, but then again, DHS haven’t recruited a single player after U14 in about 1 and a hallf to 2 years
@ gungets @ grassy
Gungets u on form..lol ” a ripple in the pool” – good one.. look im sure every top school will be trying to catch up to us… and rightly so as we have dominated to an extent almost unheard of ( kinda like GC at rugby ) – but for sure.. people will chase and eventually catch but as wbhs griffon says it is the whole experience wbhs has to offer as a swimmer that may still give us the edge for some time…………… go check the facilities out.. mind blowing…!!
@WBHS Griffon: boet, a poorer area does not mean it does not produce successful people, our new pavilion was paid for by one of the richest dudes in SA, we just need to tap him again and your world class cramped facilities will be topped….Glenwood too have ambitious expansion plans. College to be honest has the most space to though….
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Problem is that kids generally mature and bulk up big time between u16 and opens, I know Westville have experienced that a lot against the true boarding schools (College, Hilton, Michaelhouse etc) over the years even though we may never have lost in the lower age groups.
I remember the Westville class of ’96 boys having beaten College every year and then lost comprehensively in the open age group.
Hang in there, your time will come, you’re a great school and deserve to be back at the top sometime soon.
@ Gungets
Yep indeed… some good pedigree there in the whole family if you look at the mom and dads side both sides been very good at sports.. i am good mates with his younger bro and also his bro in law and were very good sportsman in there day and the moms side too.. i see anyhow as the boys are in the A sides now at college… good going.. no mean feat !
@Grasshopper: Tjaaas, heard the same thing. Going to cause more than a little ripple in the pool.
@ horsy
serious huh ? so all through age groups growing up they had won………. eish.. that is sad as hate to say it again but they gonna lose and probably not nicely either.. fkuk sakes. needs be sorted. i know things are trying to be sorted but its needs sorting quick else it become a snow ball effect even more so.. well good luck for tomorrow anyhow..!! i hope they play well !!
@Grasshopper: Other than the coach you will need need the Aquatic Center / World Class facilities to go with it, if you want to produce and attract World Class athletes, sorry dude, that’s where money does make a difference!
Can’t just have the coaching staff in your back pocket like you do with KZN Schools rugby!
@Rhino: Arrr, that would be them. Used to live over the road from me, had an idea that he might post here from time to time. Other half of the family has a very talented daughter, was at school a year behind my daughter.
@Rhino:
A bit sad on the 1st side because most of them have NEVER lost to Hilton before
@Grasshopper: Agreed, just don’t go backing “GreenMom”, please!
I heard via the grapevine Glenwood had acquired the services of a great swimming coach….hmmmm…..
@ Grassyhopper
Yep im sure – i wasnt exactly clever clogs at school and it is defo hard core in that sense and i struggled as all i wanted was sport and later on to jol..lol.. trevor hall didnt much like..;-)
@ Gungets
Hey that made my chuckle out loud… hilarious.. i will have a look at that just now..
Hey remember we spoke of a mate of mines bro whos kids he sent to college instead of wbhs… well without giving names on this.. the last 2 letters of surname ends with ARD am i right ? must be..
very passionate sports family they are. nice people too. am well connected with the whole family and extended family actually. small world.
Well done to Westville for attracting the best swimmers with the countries coach, very clever. Le Clos was at Penzance and destined to go to DHS or Glenwood. Anyway, good on Westville for milking that, any school would. Hopefully Glenwood gets a Bok soon and can milk that too. Jordy Smith just needs to win the World title and we can claim a world champ. Westville are a good school but to be honest it’s not for everyone. My cousin hated there as he said was far too academic, he wanted a balance. But again it’s personal opinion and preference, also relative. For me growing up on the Bluff Glenwood was like a 5 star institution……when I was at Michaelhouse I was awestruck! Anyway, it’s all banter at the end of day. This is not life and death guys, just kids sport…we need to get some perspective here….
@Rhino
DHS vs Hilton- DHS Founders Day
@WBHS Griffon
Well they and the U15A team are certainly on the right track! Only 3 losses between them this season so far and I expect them both to beat Hilton tomorrow.
@Horsy
Lower levels aka u14 and and U15 you win a fair few for sure… strong group that ( need to coax a few over to the leafy suburbs lol .. just kidding..
!st team will get pumped again unfortunately and 2nds and 3rds……….
@Rhino: Yep, on a phone esor so can’t cut and paste our tjikkins last tirade, look under the story of Hilton beating College. Basically I think College boys are compared to attack animals or something. Greenblooded thinks it is the effect of Klippies and Diet Pepsi, I think It is irritation from the position of the broom handle while flying in from Toti
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Hope your under 14’s light it up, would love to see you guys back to former glory! DHS were as feared on the rugby field as College back in the day!
DOMINATE!
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Jealousy, really, who would have thought!
Let’s ask GreenMom, she’ll probably recommend closing the blog to all Westville supporters, so only those that belong in the “Old 5” are on, then we don’t have to worry about Westville – So ridiculous, Lol!
Who v Whom ?
Anyway any predictions for tomorrow?? U14A-1st XV
@wbhs griffon
i think ure statement there though will be what ticks them off too :-)
Anyhow sitting in the Uk this banter gives me some form of “being home” lol
@Grasshopper: You sound like a sensible, fact based guy, so I would be disappointed if you started to back GreenMom’s comments just because she is Glenwood, that would be seriously disappointing.
It’s not about money at all, but, you can’t make a statement like Westville don’t belong. Well I tell you what, the old 5 are changing very rapidly due to a number of factors (just look at DHS) and Westville are very much at the top of the pile and going to go from strength to strength producing Olympic Gold medalists etc, whether GW like it or not, Kearsney and Westville are probably leading the group, not simply wanting to be in it!
Enough said on this, but, those are the kind of statements that can really tick people off!
@ horsy
Lol – i disagree of course but GW at dixons is tough as the record shows with us there! :-(
NO ways 15 points..! no ways!
Ok the Villians must relax now. Clearly some of the green lads have something against Westville. Its jealousy I tell you!
I have to be honest though, think Glenwood would have given you guys this year. A 15 point victory is what wouldve probably happened.
@ grassy
But i dont look down at GW – mostly those comments are said in jest ( just like other schools comment on too ) and/or when said in retaliation to something annoying …
And you having lived in Westville will know that not all Westvillians are wealthy etc per say.. not at all..Its kuk that that is what u guys think we think.. the only time i do is when its in banter or to have a “go” back… thats it. I know what life is like.. going to Hilton or MHS doesnt mean squat when u leave school and enter the big wide world.. trust me i know.. you start from the beginning and on your own 2 feet ( well most of us .. some lucky ones of course get given stuff )
@ Grassy
Yes i know.. u lived next to a very good mate of mine in roland…
Jeez Westville okes, calm to a panic! Green mom does not represent all Glenwood supporters. I am a GOB who lived in Westville and played at WOB, with family and friends who are WOBs, this is all friendly banter. Westville are a new kid on the block doing good things and yes maybe the best all around school in KZN but they cannot buy tradition and history like the old 5 in KZN. Westville like Glenwood have ploughed a lot into sport so naturally are very competitive. I think it’s Westvilles aloofness that annoys Glenwood supporters the most, why should being more wealthy make you better people. By degrading the Glenwood area makes you come across as aloof. Now I’m lucky enough to have benefitted from a great Glenwood education and doing well so not coming from a poorer persons perspective. Glenwood just wants to be treated as equals…
@ wbhs griffon
Dunno bru – i try keep it calm but sometimes..sometimes you just cant…lol
I like having a jostle/banter/argument with the GW dudes but within reason too. Mostly its cool and i do have respect for GW , for sure. But i am WBHS and thats what matters to me. :-)
My/your opinion will of course be the opposite to most GW people and i understand that.. but even Grassy has admitted on a thread not so long ago that he believes WBHS is currently the top all round school in Natal and arguably in SA.. but thats a bold statement but there are some truths to it…….. look there loads of great schools.. GW, College are tops indeed.. and all around but only know KZN schools to properly comment on.. MHS, Kearsney( my dad is old boy ), Hilton, DHS are all good schools too – amazing schools in their own right and with more history too..
@Rhino: I’m still laughing in regards to the “Village School” comments from her, it’s hilarious!
@Gungets Tuft: I agree with you, it’s ridiculous analogy, don’t know who brought it up first, think it could have been Greenblooded.
@ Gungets
lol – u mean uve had this from her to ?
@Rhino: Agreed, as far as rugby goes Glenwood is probably very marginally better, but, as an all round school there is simply no comparison!
Wow, some of these people really like to try and get under Westville’s skin, where is the respect that we get and receive from the other schools??
@WBHS Griffon: Ahahhaaaahhhaa, you “leafy suburbs” okes need to go back a night or two and see that Westville are not the only recipients of our Klippies Lady’s attention. It’s the full moon I tell ya, shhhrrrriiiiieeeekk 8)
@GREENMOM: Agree with Rhino, that’s an outrageous statement to make! Sounds to me like you don’t know much about the game or teams, but, just make blind statements based on passion.
Some of these Glenwood people never cease to amaze me, they like sheep with the animosity thing towards Westville. As I said in an earlier post, we don’t experience this from any other school, there is complete respect between Westville and the likes of College, Kearsney, Hilton, Michaelhouse etc.
Glad you enjoy living in the fast deteriorating Lower Umbilo area, I’d rather take the leafy suburbs thank you very much!
OK calm now – sorry but I found those comments from greenmom purposely annoying and stirring and for what need? I dont think all GW are totally anti WBHS but there defo a pattern. I know we have huge rivalry and thats good.. and i wouldnt change a thing and in IMO we are superior as a school all round but thats my opinion. You have had the better of thr rugby over the years i know this.. and thats fine and gives us something to change ideally.
@ Gungets
I concur !
@ Grennmom
Yeah ok here is the fixture list so far this season ( all villages clearly ) lol
WESTVILLE BOYS’ HIGH – RUGBY 1ST TEAM
DATE OPPONENT SCORE RESULT
15 June Maritzburg College
08 June George Campbell
01 June Michaelhouse 21 – 17 WON
25 May Northwood 45 – 0 WON
18 May Port Natal 45 – 14 WON
11 May Kearsney Postponed
04 May KES 22 – 17 WON
27 April DHS 42 – 3 WON
20 April Pretoria Boys 22 – 17 WON
13 April Empangeni 49 – 0 WON
01 April Framesby 47 – 3 WON
30 March Outeniqua 7 – 33 LOST
28 March Paarl Gim 7 – 46 LOST
23 March Stirling 25 – 7 WON
21 March Grey PE 10 – 16 LOST
16 March Hilton 20 – 10 WON
What weak school huh ? Well the rest of you should all have a say now being called village schools.. lol
Funny how even playing what u deem as a small village school seems to put up more of a fight than your big local durban schools aka dhs and this no attack on dhs but its the truth.. beating dhs 45 to 3 or whatever it was does that justify rankings too ? No.. cause dhs is weak this year and of last few years.. so anyhow…
@Greenmom
Dont talk absolute kuk – what a stupid and pathetic comment to make – Unbelievable.
Westville plays numerous games throughout the season and would usually be GW if it wasnt for last years debacle… to which we all have opinions on so i wont go there. But to say we play small viallages etc is just trying to be annoying. It kinda makes me wonder where you get this all from… DOH ! Westville play all schools and playing Empangeni/Port Natal isnt my choice either but it is what is it is at the moment.. but to say thats all we play is just pathetic. Westville started off the season by playing the KERF and against the aruguably 2 top schools in Outeniqua and Parrk Gym.. and then framesby.. and then there was Hilton, HMS, Northwood, DHS etc etc… so clearly realise what a stupid statment that is to make. So get facts right.
It always the same tune with GW people and Westville… i dont understand the animosity as such… yes being loyal is great but to make such rash comments is just blinkered and pathetic.
College may well beat us next weekend and i am under no illusions that this may happen but to say with ease…. blah blah.. yeah ok then. We shall see. Worry about GW than Westville!!
Iagree with you Grassy to a point on the good but not great and i concur its both ways…
@WBHS Griffon: Westville should try and play a very passionate College on their 150th Reunion on Goldstones and see what happens, that win was huge for Glenwood having lost in the dying minutes to Kearsney 2 years in a row. I watched Westville at KERF and they are a good team but not great. Glenwood too are good but not great overall, BUT they have a backline that if clicks will beat any side in KZN. Sparks is so quick he can single handedly kill off sides. Westville don’t have the X factor to beat Glenwood at home. Yes, Northwood were a banana skin that other schools like to use annually to remind Glenwood, it’s great fuel for the sides each year to motivate them…,
@WBHS Griffon: You do realise that you could just as easily said “you beat College and lost narrowly to Kearsney”, but that wouldn’t suit the theme
I think that by the end of this season all but one of Kearsney, GW, Ville, Hilton and College will be feeling that it is a year that “might have been”. I can speak only for College, but for a red card (disregard the merits or not, not debating that at all), or a illness decimated team, who knows what might have happened. The teams are that close this year, despite what you feel about KC. On their day they might beat the best in SA, but might also lose locally. Best in KZN, probably, unbeatable in KZN, {shrug}
@WBHS Griffon: Westville don’t deserve to be in the group. They concentrate on small village schools of which some has not even got 300 boys in the school vs 12000 plus at Westville. It will never be a contest of equals. GUARANTEED wins are used to bolster the image of these type. THey no longer play the real rugby school in Durban/ KZN Glenwood . If the schools all play the same schools they can be compared . This is not possible the way some schools manipulate the rankings by playing Pionier, Empangeni etc rather than Glenwood.. College will beat Westville with ease.
@Grasshopper: Not so sure about that, guess we will never know.
You lost to Kearsney and narrowly scraped past College, so you certainly not the yardstick and all conquering in KZN this season this season, that’s Kearsney.
Good luck against Northwood this weekend, they’ve been know to burst your big green bubble before
@WBHS Griffon: Not much between Glenwood and Kearsney this year. Either team could win on any given Saturday. Both streaks ahead of Westville going by tournament results.
The feud is sorted as I understand – but just no room on the bus for a fixture this year.
@WBHS Griffon: Unbeaten in KZN, but not having played the other top 3 yet, interesting……
Glenwood vs Westville (since 1964);
Played: 47
Won: 31
Lost: 14
Drawn: 2
% Win: 66%
Pretty comprehensive overall. The 90’s was Glenwood’s worst decade of rugby and I played in our worst year, 1996……heheh
vs Westville (1990 to 1999)
Played: 10
Won: 4
Lost: 6
Just shows how weak we were in the 90’s….
Against Glenwood this year, the game should have been played at Glenwood and Glenwood would have won it with room to spare. Our backs are just far too good…
@GreenBlooded: Pity, would love to play you guys now, I reckon we’ed take it, Kearsney would be a different story though.
Hopefully the two headmasters can sort out there little feud so we can play again, used to beat you guys pretty regularly in the 90’s though.
@RBugger: We can only live and hope mate. Would be like 1990 all over again……
@WBHS Griffon: If you are going to claim ‘unbeaten’ status without having played Glenwood – go for it.
@RBugger: Would like to see that too of course, but, KZN haven’t made the final game on too many occasions over the last 30 years though. Time to step up!
On a seperate note – having read a few posts, I really blady hope that KZN combines nicely this year.
Would be fantastic to have a bit of a dig at some other bloggers on this site, namely in the Cape and Blue Bull country. They are all so chirpy and it is clear that the Bulls feel they have already won the first game against KZN!!!!
Would be great if we pull together and actually pull off the surprise result of CW!!!!
@Grasshopper: I’ll live with beating Glenwood last year and being undefeated in KZN this year
@GreenBlooded: I’ll live with 73% win ratio over Westville in the past 13 years too :-)
@GreenBlooded: Pinetown and the Burra are pretty ‘equidistant’ to Westville too ;-)
@GreenBlooded: Good luck with that!
@WBHS Griffon: “Westville are about equidistant from Kearsney”. Huh? The only 2 places Westville is equidistant from is Chesterville and Clermont.
Us Greenies will stick with Umbilo – no worries.
@Rhino: I won’t, it’s commical with some of these Glenwood guys though – so predictable – most of them a good bunch though.
Westville are about equidistant from Kearsney and we’ve always had a very healthy and respectful rivalry with them over the years, with no little cheap shots here and there. Must be the leafy suburbs thing – lol!
@WBHS Griffon
haha its always like that dont let it bother you too much… it used to me but now i just laugh at it all… its cause they wish GW was in the nice leafy suburbs where we are and not umbilo. lol… only kidding chaps just having a little stir and laugh.
@Grasshopper: Michaelhouse, but Glenwood did beat them early season and Kearsney beat Glenwood, so it was very close again…House overall strongest! Glenwood was the 3 years prior to that…
@Queenian: House
@Grasshopper: Who was the No 1 school last year
Agreed Kearsney is no1, but reality only about 5 to 10 points separate Kearsney, Glenwood, College and Westville on any given day, it comes down to home or away really. This is great for KZN rugby in general, the Craven Week team should reflect this ratio too, 5 from each school plus 2 from others…
Kearsney must be the KZN No 1
Well having had 3 days of flu – if this is what the MC boys have got – I fully understand
I feel absolutely terrible and have trouble walking around the house – let alone playing a game of any sport (chess included).
Speedy recovery to all and look forward to the KC/MC outcome. Will unfortunately miss a 20th – as the national CURRO 7s tournament is on in Brits that weekend.
Glenwood vs KZN Opposition since 2000…
Vs College – Played (25) – Won (12) – Lost (11) – Drawn (2) – 48% win rate
Vs DHS – Played (18) – Won (12) – Lost (5) – Drawn (1) – 67% win rate
Vs Westville – Played (11) – Won (8) – Lost (3) – 73% win rate
Vs Michaelhouse – Played (10) – Won (6) – Lost (3) – Drawn (1) – 60% win rate
Vs Kearsney – Played (13) – Won (7) – Lost (5) – Drawn (1) – 54% win rate
Vs Hilton – Played (9) – Won (6) – Lost (3) – 67% win rate
Vs Northwood – Played (7) – Won (6) – Lost (1) – 86% win rate
Total: Played (93) – Won (57) – Lost (31) – Drawn (5) – 61% win rate
Not bad at all, shows College & Kearsney have been our toughest opposition in the past 13 years….with Michaelhouse being a tough opponent too in their strong years….
@Buffel: The main issue , it seems, is warm up matches for the CW teams. I hear there is one on Monday 17th and then on the weekend following. Unless the CW guys get charitable both teams could be without their CW reps, KC their 6, College their 4. Not sure if it includes Academy because College would then lose another 6, not sure about KC. Could just about = 2nds vs 2nds after all
@Buffel: It’s in the hands of the respective Directors of Sport. Pretty sure there are hoards of College boys who would rather play rugby and hockey than run Cross Country which was supposed to be a compulsory that afternoon. CC has failed, for about …. er …. 150 years, to capture the imagination of most boys. I reckon the out and back has been seen as pretty pointless…… they figure just standing still has the same end result …
@Gungets Tuft: I hope they try and make this one up. The 20th would be great as they break up the next day and it would be eagerly awaited. Let see what the Numzaans say.
@RBugger: it’s not just Potgieter it would be Van Vuuren, Coetzee and Van Niekerk if fit. Van Vuuren is a beast, does not get enough recognition. Seriously I would be scared to see what he could push in the gym.
@kcob: Just back from the Old Boys phuza session???
Got a call from a College man, seems to have gone off well, if you were there, slightly underattended which is a pity. Perhaps the general uncertainlty. Rumours going on about Thursday 20th, perhaps try again on the Wednesday?
@beet: I must say this is a great site with a great bunch of blokes blogging, all very respectful, except for the odd jab, which is good to see. Well Done!
I reckon the bhp formula is a pretty accurate reflection, Kearsney definitely no.1, then the rest. Can’t really blame anyone for the weather or for games being cancelled, it is what it is and both schools have 100% records in KZN whereas the other schools don’t – right?
@Grasshopper: Whoah, Jeez, some of you Glenwood guys love to always have a go at Westville, not sure what it is, maybe it can be put down to local rivalry. Certainly not like that between Westville and any other school.
If you look at the last 10 years of Westville vs Glenwood results they are all very close and pretty much could have gone either way, let’s be honest.
I wish we were playing Glenwood this year, reckon we would take you guys two years in a row, even with all your Natal Schools players.
Phew. I would love to “claim” bragging rights this year for my school, but it would be a tiresome argument to try, as is evident. Unless we concluded the major matches no-one should bother trying. There are good teams and players in our schools!
As for the fly-half debate, we are lucky to have really talented no 10’s. Webster, what great kid and what talent. Tedder, super skilled. Koekemoer, another. Jonas, silky!
FYI Tedder played represented the Dolphins u19 at the SA Cubs U19 national Week in January. Too soon to choose, so enjoy both until varsity son!
My advise, study hard, play to enjoy it, makes tons if friends.
Boring I know but the debate was hectic!
@star: Sorry star, it was me in an earlier post. My apologies to MHS (and supporters as well). I listed Kearsney opposition since KERF and said I didn’t consider them as Tier 1.
I do think MHS are Tier 1 but the rest not. MHS proved credible opposition through all ages last Saturday, fielded a good quantity of teams and won a good few games.
@RBugger: Tedder is a great cricketer – I think he gave Grant Khomo the flick last year to play representative cricket.
@ Buffel- what did I do now. MHS 2nd tier? Do not get me into trouble with the family( mafia)
@Westers: Strictly in terms of SBR, this season I would have loved to have seen MRE play at 13 for KC. I think he could have had the same effect as Khubeka there. He has great upperbody strength and when he played fullback last year, he really injected live into the backline. I think he could have made KZN as a 13.
RMcH would be my first choice at 9 for KZN. He’s consistent, his pass is more often than not strong and on target, he’s assertive, alert so he makes good decisions, is well organised and organises the players around him well on attack and in defence. But under the circumstances there was the possibility that he would not even have made KZN so I’m happy for him that he just got in. But deserved to make the team based on 2 years of being one of the best players at Westville.
: @Pedantic: I would have said that players like Kurt Webster and Chris Lines have excellent opportunities at the Sharks Academy if they decided to stay. 2 years in u19 would do them the world of good and the Sharks is a good place in 2014 because they haven’t contracted much by way of backs, so there is every possiblity to get Provincial game time if they do well at u20 Club rugby. Then in year 2 they could well get full contracts.
@Rhino: no- i think it was star .
@Westers: The junior teams would be able to get a team or two on the park, probably comply with the BokSmart rulings about front-rankers. The schools are discussing alternative dates. College has proposed something, lets see how it goes. I am pretty sure that both schools will do what they can to get teams on the park.
College has only 48 fit Open players, it’s just a non-starter, from BokSmart and just plain smart, point of view. And very unsatisfactory from the point of view of strength vs strength.
@RBugger: With Tedder and Webster there that will not happen. Best he can hope for is a start in game 2 at scrum half.
@beet: @HORSEFLY NO.1: Absolutely agree … I was privileged enough to work with Webster – in fact I think a couple years ago I mentioned to beet that Kurt was the most naturally talented rugger player I had ever worked with – he is seriously top drawer in every department, skills, defence, kicking, leadership – he has it all! One wonders how he would have developed in a top drawer 1st XV team.
He is really just getting to grips with flyhalf play and can only get better – a talent to keep an eye on.
I doubt Potgeiter would nullify the Doops. Their workrate is too high for him. The #7 you’ll find at almost every single ruck !
@Westers: I see, Wonder if they will give him a run at 10 at CW?
Terrible news! Hope it gets re-scheduled
@RBugger: McHardy switched to flyhalf in the game against Framesby at KERF and since then Westville have not lost.
@beet: Is that all games?
NEWS: COLLEGE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO COMPLY WITH BOKSMART
KEARSNEY GAME WILL BE POSTPONED OR CANCELLED
@Horsefly: Do not know enough about Webster – he made the CW side and will have a chance to play at the week.
Will watch him there
@Beet: Spot on assessment of school boy chances after school
@Westers: Have not seen McHardy at flyhalf – saw him playing scrummie at KERF.
@Grasshopper: Potgieter counter the Doops, just no way! The Doops are not just about power and size, their work rate is also massive! Besides, Moloi and Visser will take care of Potgieter
Just do yourself a favour and try watch KC vs Hilton – the Doops and Schramm combine brilliantly and are a joy to watch. I am not surprised the Sharks Academy signed the 3 of them, keeping them together is a smart move
@Pedantic: Seems like we share 2 common opinions here
I maintain that if the KC 2nd team #9 was at Glenwood, he would have been their first 1st choice and probably featured in one of the KZN u18 teams in July. His big disadvantage is his size but in terms of pass and base kick, only 2nd to Cameron Wright in KZN IMHO.
The RU recruiters see the same style of flyhalves year after year. Brilliant at school but lack the attributes to make it in rugby after school simple because they don’t tick enough boxes. If a boy can’t bring relief via a kick from next to his dead ball or struggles to tackle or is too small, he can get away with it at SBR but not after school. He’ll get shifted out to wing if he’s got speed and is lucky. Obviously I don’t believe future potential should count at school level but well worth considering when assessing flyhalves. And then it becomes apparent that Tedder stands a far greater chance of succeeding in rugby than most of his rivals this year. But next year we will see Bader Pretorius in this open age group and things might no longer be that clear cut.
@RBugger:
It seems to me you’ve put in reasons why Tedder is such a good player instead of comparing.
I have to strongly disagree with reason #2 and #3.
Number 1 I will agree with and that’s only because Webster is still learning his trade at #10. We are talking about a boy who had been playing his trade in the front row all his life till last year.
@Buffel: Westville also have a scrum half (Braithwaite) who has made huge strides this year. He has come from U16B last year to 1sts and has had a fantastic season. If the improvement continues at this rate he will be in the mix next year.
@Grasshopper: It is no surprise that both players mentioned, Paulse and Aplon, play on the wing!
You will not find a Super 15 flyhalf under 85kg – the hits will just become to hard.
Aplon is a great great player, you can’t compare Jonas to him – Jonas is good and has good feet, but not like Aplon.
All I am saying, is that it is very rare that a player at that kind of size will play at a high level after school – guys like Aplon are the exception, and at present, he is the only player of that kind of size I can think of.
Did not realise Tedder wsa a good cricket player – hope he does not choose that boring sport
@RBugger: You obviously have not seen Westville play this year. As an all round fly half I would agree that Tedder is probably the best. Only probably because it would be nice to see Webster behind a winning pack.
But when it comes to defence I think most fly halves in KZN would find it difficult to match McHardy.
@RBugger: not sure about that, it took Kearsney a very long time to win again on Dixons last year and it was very tight. If they played at Glenwood now I think Glenwood could take it, we missed Van der Heever and Coetzee immensely vs Monnas and I think they just need to bring in Potgieter to counter the Doops….
@Westers:
I think he’s talking about the same side that’s dominated since U14 and drew in U16 against Westville wiithout their cappie and with a former teammate playing for Westville on the day.
@Westers: Let me add my 2c worth. Reece and reece-edwards are both fantastic scrum halves with hall playing second fiddle to Mat at Kearsney. This has been the case for 6 years and rightly so but the strides made by Hall this year are huge. Next year will be interesting as they both (kwazi and Hall) play a similar game with the added bonus of Hall as a place kicker. I think that the Kearsney XV for 2014 are going to be very competitive in all departments with the influx of u16 boys, Dixon,Pau and Luyt. There could be more knocking on the door and hope they do . That we will leave for next year.
@Grasshopper: Most certainly, but do we all agree with our 1st XV selections ?
@RBugger: if he does not choose cricket. Too say Jonas won’t play after school is a little premature. I wonder what Gio Aplon and Breyton Paulse would say about that….
@Pedantic: You obviously didn’t read my earlier post. DHS have 5 teams (sometimes 6) playing this year in the Open and U16 age group that they will need to draw from next year. Unless they recruit they will struggle again next year. A school will never be considered Tier 1 without depth. The question I posed earlier – have Kearsney ever had to arrange fillers when playing DHS previously?
@GreenBlooded: If we’re going to go back to predicting 1st team success against age group results then we’re going to sit with very red faces
Have we not done this too often in the past? GW 1st XV 2012 being a prime example.
There is more to it than that … MC will be strong, but you can forget them having the dominance they enjoyed at age group level – we will talk again this time next year
@Horsefly: Reasons why Tedder is better: Number 1, decision making – always seems to do the right thing at the right time. In fact, I feel he will be even better if he has loud speaking centres who communicate and run off him a bit better.
Number 2, defence – best defencive flyhalf I have seen, this includes all school teams I have watched this year.
Number 3, excellant passing off both hands – great place kicker and general kicker – bravery, heart of a lion…
Not going to go on and on, do not even know the guy, but he is a great player and will only get better!
Now that the twins are back and firing, it has also taken pressure off certain players and given them licence to thrill.
With the Doops and Schramm playing as they are, actually including Meaker and Tedder etc I reckon we would comfortably beat Glenwood or any other school in KZN
@Pedantic:
You just interpreted the provincial selections like that. I put them there as something to also think about .
I don’t know, I think Jonas has more of an X-Factor than Tedder who’s more of a player that does the basics riight.
As for Hall, I think he’s really good. But better than Reece-Edwards?? Not too sure…
@Pedantic: Barend the Kearsney coach obviously thinks differently ;-)
@Westers:You mean the U16A side that went unbeated for 2 and a half seasons? Yes – that same one.
@Westers: As a scrumhalf yes – then add his place kicking to the equation and he is 6 points / game ahead.
@Pedantic: I meant against GW 1st not GW 2nds.
@GreenBlooded: Are you talking about the U16 side that got a lucky draw against Westville last year?
@Rhino: DHS being regarded as Tier 2 is absolute nonsense – their younger teams are very, very strong while their 1st XV is made up of many G11s – they will be back, don’t write off DHS yet – a REAL pity Webster won’t be there next season as he could offer them the edge they need to redeem themselves.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Don’t forget Anderson from Westville.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Agree mate. College will rule next year when that U16A side gets back together. I wonder how many of the current U16A players will get a look-in next season?
@Grasshopper: Tedder certainly has x-factor… When he came off the bench against Boland, he pretty much changed the shape of the game.
Tedder has it all, like I said, he is a player that has the attributes to play rugga at a high level after school, I do not think Jonas will.
To me, Tedder is a modern day Honnible – I am looking forward to watching him in his matric year – SA Schools written all over him
@Pedantic: Do you really think Hall is better than McHardy?
@GreenBlooded: A rematch would see GW losing by 10 – 20 IMO – the KC team are at an all time high and with the twins onboard would be too much for GW to handle.
1. KC ( based on form only and “star”players )
2. Westville or GW
3. Hilton or MC
then the rest……….
I would think KC should theoretically be no.1 and on paper too. But as the debate goes on you cannot properly say this year as our match v KC was rained out and yes chaps you may have beat us in a friendly at the beginning of season but it was a friendly and Westville at home has a VERY good record over you guys and in general over the years…, hasnt it. but who knows as its cancelled and what a pity. I think we could have won that game personally. And also not playing GW also was frustrating…. so throws everything off balance so to speak
@buffel – are you saying MHS is a tier2 school ? no ways..!
DHS arent tier 2 but could be judging the state of the rugby debacle ( some good lower A results though ) but if WBHS started getting thumped as school has been and not fielding a decent amount of teams LIKE they used too then i would be the first to say that we dont deserve to be Tier 1…. but its not us its DHS. and yes what a pity.
anyhows..
@Pedantic:
I don’t think its fair to bring colour into it because both of these boys are very good players in their own right. They made provincials on merit IMO. But we will see 1st hand which is actually the better combo.
@RBugger:
Well, you know how I feel about that claim of him being the best. I have asked for reasons of why and how he is better than Webster and STILLL haven’t got any answers
@Grassy
Webster in matric this year so I’m afraid you’ll have to find another 12. But I think Tristan Blewett will gladly fill that position .
Don’t forget aboout Jordan Koekemoer from College ey. Quite good at #10 too and so is Bader Pistorius from MHS
@Pedantic: I think we need to look at KC and GW season as a whole and not simply down to a 1 point defeat in the head-to-head at the beginning of the season if we want to compare the 2 teams. I have not done that (Hopper – you like that sort of thing – how about it?) yet so KC could well come out on top after such a comparison. A re-match would be nice!!!
@Grasshopper: Are you kidding me? Tedder has more X-factor than I have seen in a long while – the fact that he carries all the other attributes of a great player just make him that much better than the rest.
My concern with Jonas is that he seems to be injured a lot of the time – maybe not quite up to it physically?
WRT race – I agree they are both great players, but Horsey throws out the provincial selections like they are the benchmark for judging players – nonsense! IMO Hall is as good or better than this year’s CW # 9!
@ Pedantic- Westville are” pretenders” Well they did take on 2 of the top schools in the country and are currently unbeaten in KZN. You raise the slap and tickle at KP( which is laughable) but then conveniently ignore the fact that Westville has beaten College twice already in your assessment of whom is 3rd.( or did you not know that). Also College has 2 local losses and their margin of victory against DHS and NW was substantially less than that of Westville. Unfortunately Westville does seem to have a mental block about Goldstones but that is something the “pretenders ” will have to learn to deal with.
. Surely you must also agree that No 1 must earn his stripes on the field of play.Strongest English school to play no others.
@ RBugger- I am glad you agree with ” one” thing
@Pedantic: seem both Tedder and Jonas, very different players. Jonas is like the Outeniqua flyhalf Human, not as good obviously but very quick, jinxing, slippy player who can find holes and get the backs going, weak on defense though. Tedder is more all round, kicks well, distributes well, runs well but for me lacks the spark or X factor that Jonas provides. Both should make it next year with the DHS flyhalf maybe playing centre…it’s unfair to bring race into it. Jonas and Khanyile are there on merit, great little players…
Tedder best flyhalf in KZN this year – should be streaks ahead next year!
Flyhalf is not just about attack, but also reading the game and defence! Teddar has all this and more – he will also fill out, has the heart of a lion, a guy who will make it after school if he wishes
@WBHS Griffon: boet Glenwood have a positive win ratio against all KZN schools over the past 5 to 10 years. Westville’s win last year was the 1st time in 6 years, Kearsney prior to that had not won in 4 years….I’ll get the stats later to show you. 2012 & 2013 have been average compared to the previous 5 years. Glenwood won the best in KZN trophy 3 years in a row, MHS last year and Kearsney this year. I know it’s frustrating for Westville especially after having spent so much on bursaries but the Westville vs Glenwood game would have been at Glenwood this year and I think Glenwood would have taken that….
@HORSEFLY NO.1</a@HORSEFLY NO.1: GW would disagree, but IMO Hall is better than Khanyile and Tedder better than Jonas – not rocket science mate. You can;t throw out all these provincial selections when you have players of colour in question – the stats are skewed, we all know that.
@WBHS Griffon:
Agreed. But the reason why I have Glenwood at second is purely based on their recent form which has been quite good.
As for the ‘NO.1’, its to beat out the pretenders
@PEDANTIC
Who’s the #15 for next year? Also, interesting on the halfback combo because I’m sure Glenwood will disagree here. They have Khanyile(SA U16,Academe A,Grant Khomo) and Jonas(Academy,Grant Khomo).
I know Hall and Tedder have been playing together since primary school and are a very good combo, but just thought I should point that out.
Next year is still quite far. But, I think that we will have a new number 1 whoever it may be although my money is on College
@HORSEFLY NO.1: I would have to agree with Kearsney probably being top this year. Difficult to definitively say Glenwood are no.2, we must be careful of making this assumption based on the number of Natal Schools players they are getting every year, which is always way too many in my opinion for a side that still loses local games to the likes of Westville, College, Kearsney etc on a regular basis – they are not that dominant in KZN, lets be honest. The difference between Glenwood, Westville and College, as indicated earlier, could be as little as Home or Away advantage. Not sure about College though as they got pumped by Hilton who Westville beat pretty easily.
What’s the significance of the “No.1” behind Horsefly by the way??
@Star: One thing I will agree with, I wish KC did play a few more schools.
I would love to see them playing the likes of Grey Pe or Paarl Boys or PBHS. In my honest oponion, KC are the strongest English school in SA this year
@Buffel @ Pedantic: Ok then, stuff it – KC will be number 1 next year as well
Make Teddar the captain and play that u16 12 off him, will be a good combination.
I would love it if KC can have a strong season next year
I am leaning towards BHP’s KZN ranking judging from the results that I have seen thus far this year.Kearsney are a head above Westville and Glenwood, though it would be great if WBHS-KC match did take place.It is also a pity the MC game looks set to not take place.
@Buffel- I am being deadly serious. Yes you played Paarl Gym but so did Westville and GW. Who else did you play? GW played PaarlBoys,Monument ect.Westville played Outeniqua, Grey High Pretoria Boys ect I ask a simple question. Why did you not play Outeniqua at your own festival? The opportunity was surely there and as you are” the top side” surely you would have been more competitive than Westville. This is not about which side is top( I personally think it is KC) but the process at hand and what has happened on the ground. Surely that must dictate. I will say it again. If you beat Hilton and Westville lose to MC( on Goldstones) KC will be the only undefeated side in KZN and will therefore be top because it is between the white lines( and not because they were the top U14 side or have more KZN reps- which would put GW 2nds ahead of Westville
)
@RBugger: I wouldn’t be too sure of that statement – KC could well be the best in KZN next year.
They will have the best halfback combination, very strong fullback, a tough front row and several strong loosies – don’t write them off yet!
@RBugger: Next year will look after itself. Kearsney wont be a push over and will go as far as saying that they will again be pressing for the number 1 spot.
But this is our year. We are number one.
@GreenBlooded: Ok … Kearsney beat Glenwood without their two SA School stars, Glenwood then go on to record a pretty solid season – this simply strengthens Kearsney’s case for # 1 spot with Glenwood 2nd and the rest of them pretty distant in 3rd, 4th etc.
People have been going on and on about the twins for years now – don’t try and tell me they don’t make a difference.
Seriously, Westville are simply pretenders this year, they have zero claim after KC drilled them in a practise match without star players – Kearsney easily 1st, Glenwood a strong 2nd and College coming through nicely with a young team in 3rd.
@Star: We also feel that KC need to be challenged more and would love to see them playing the likes of Paarl Boys or PBHS etc
KC will not be the best in KZN next year, but they are number 1 at the moment! I really hope they show their worth against Hilton next weekend!
@Grasshopper: the one missing is the Westville result- they need to patch up their differences and get it on,otherwise one will never know who the true number 1 will be
@beet: I agree Beet. I think you will find that Kearsney at home might be a bridge too far for Hilton and we owe them one after the Mafia robbed us last year. I will be watching with interest how things unfold at Goldstones. Hopefully the College boys are fit and rearing to go- that will seal it for good.
@star: we played Paarl Gym- undisputed no1 in the country. That is not hiding from the best. So you say we should have played Outeniqua, Paarl Gym and who else. Come now , let us be serious. Next year might be different, but this year,in our eyes we are the top side. Sorry, but that is my opinion and I think you will find a lot of people concur.
So it looks as if College vs Westville might decide a few things if MC wins and who knows, perhaps a Hilton surprise on the Stott could do likewise.
@TJ: Thanks. That really really sucks.
@GreenBlooded: The various ranking systems take care of that overall analysis though. There is easy enough to pick out where the schools are ranked overall and list them in descending order.
This here should be strictly about about what happens inside the boundaries of KZN between local schools.
@TheGoose: the first team and second team games look very unlikley. The first side has only 2 players left from the side that ran out agianst Hilton on Saturday. The open age group has been decimated by this flu. The junior age groups are fine with the most likely scenario being that the opens will be cancelled but from u16 down being still on.
@ Buffel- By referring to Boland Landbou to support your quality wins is just shooting yourself in the foot. Even ou Ploegie will agree they are very average this year. BHP has them at 31 compared to PBHS at 10. Sachoolsports ranking has them at 41 against PBHS at 8. The fact remains that KC only has one notable scalp. I feel your frustration as it is like a prize race horse sitting in the stall. But comments about Westville’s performance against MHS( you obviously were not there as you would know that Westville did not ” struggle” to win) or that Westville played Port Natal does not change that fact. To be honest the question could be asked why did Kearsney and not Westville play Outeniqua at KERF.( IF it was a no brainer that KC was No 1(at home)and in the interests of a more competitive game.) It is a great team and I am just sad that it was not challenged more.
Besides Outeniqua and Paarl Gym Westville took on the current No 1 side in the EC in their own backyard and but for disallowed try at the death narrowly lost.
I don’t think that Kearsney’s 1 point win over Glenwood at the start of the season should be the only consideration between the 2 schools. Glenwood has gone on to beat some heavyweights since then – some analysis between the Glenwood and Kearsney results from the festivals and against what strength opposition should also be considered.
Is there any update on whether the KC and College game will go ahead? I’ve already booked flights etc to come down to watch…..
Short answer – there is no PROVEN”top dog” . Various circumstances have conspired to mess the season up in this regard . How about this for a solution next year – ‘House , Westville,Glenwood,Hilton and KC play each other on a home and away basis . Fillers can then be played for the other week ends . With this amount of rugby to be played though they would all have to play into the third term and forget that game best played aspirant actors and ballet dancers ( socccer). At least then we would have a true answer and stop all of this posturing . Before anyone gets upset I was only joking about the ballet dancers!!
@Buffel: In my opinion DHS are now a Tier 2 school when it comes to rugby. As I have stated in many posts on this site it is not that I think this is a good thing. Quite the opposite.
But reality is they have too few sides in each age category and apart from good A teams from U14 to U16 they are weak.
You say they will be back where they belong next year. Are they planning to import a whole lot of G11 & G12 players next year. If so, great. If not they are in for a bleak time again as they currently only have 3 (sometimes 4) open age group teams and 2 U16 teams.
In my opinion to be classified as Tier 1 a school should be able to put out a minimum of 4 teams in every age group and 6 in the Open (U18/19) age group.
A question, have Kearsney ever had to arrange fillers before when playing DHS?
If you base it on results, what you have seen and gut feel, the ranking in KZN would have Kearsney at No1 no doubt, with Glenwood a close 2nd and College and Westville fighting for 3rd. When Glenwood ‘click’ not many schools can stay with their backs, unbelievable talent there. Ask Selborne, they caught Glenwood on a good day. The results of Kearsney and Glenwood against similar opposition are very close eg Boland Landbou. Really and truelly there cannot be an official No1 school this year due to many fixtures not been played. Glenwood have half their squad in grade 11 so 2014 could be a good year, but so do College.
Glenwood results to date;
No Team Home or Away Date Points For Points Against W/L/D
1 Kearsney A 2013/03/16 25 26 L
2 Garsfontein Pukke 2013/03/21 26 48 L
3 HTS Drostdy Pukke 2013/03/23 31 34 L
4 Framesby Pukke 2013/03/25 26 24 W
5 Paul Roos Kearsney 2013/03/28 10 15 L
6 Selborne College Kearsney 2013/03/30 41 5 W
7 Paarl Gim Kearsney 2013/04/01 12 40 L
8 Pinetown A 2013/04/13 82 0 W
9 Michaelhouse A 2013/04/20 36 5 W
10 Boland Landbou Wildeklawer 2013/05/02 36 13 W
11 Paarl Boys Wildeklawer 2013/05/04 17 15 W
12 Hilton H 2013/05/11 21 9 W
13 DHS A 2013/05/18 46 14 W
14 College (150th) A 2013/05/25 44 40 W
15 Monument (Old Boys) H 2013/06/01 20 26 L
Played: 15
Won: 9
Lost: 6
Points for: 473
Points against: 314
The losses were all to very strong schools, except Drostdy which they threw away, a game they should have won easily, lack of experience.
off the topic but what happened to the @lantic schools sevens?
pionier beat northwood 17-10
@RBugger: What I am saying is exactly what you are pointing out – who played who, when and where, and what the results were, count for nothing when trying to decide who is better than who. Until the schools play each other you cannot make a direct comparison and say one is better than another.
Your saying Kearsney are No 1 in KZN is an opinion only at this stage.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: You are bang on. Every school goes through this and I know those boys personally and come next year they will be back where they belong. Just a bit miffed at the fact that Westers believes that they are a tier2 school.
Their age group teams are up to scratch and you will see that next year they will come back with a vengeance.
I don’t think DHS is a tier-2 school
I just think they had a tier-2 team this year that’s all. 11/15 starters in grade 11 I think. They should be stronger next year.
@Westers: Boland Landbou? Glenwood? and to think that MHS is a tier 2 school who you managed to thump 21-17. George Campbell rained out and watch out next year for the tier 2 school DHS. I think they will give you a run for your money. Damn, I wish we had a crack at your guys this year then we wouldn’t be having this conversation. It would be cut and dry that we are No.1
@Westers: Surely if you have played the game, you will understand that you can’t make a statement saying that Kes drew with Monument, Westville beat Kes, Monument beat Glenwood, therefore Westville are better than Glenwood – it does not work that way!
At PBHS – we lost to St Johns who were awfull, however we ran Affies close only just losing by 2 points – we actually scored a try against the post which was not given
Anyway, my point being – certain schools lift their games against certain opposition – at PBHS it was Affies. I am sure KES lifted their game against Monument.
Your saying who we choose to play is ridiculous! Whether you like it or not, KC are currently number 1 in KZN…
@Buffel: You say Empangeni and Port Natal are Tier 2 teams, and I agree. But you are basing your comments on Kearsneys form on fixtures against George Campbell, St Charles, MHS, St Stithians and DHS, none of whom I would consider to be Tier 1 opposition. Apart from Glenwood, Kearsney has not beaten anyone of note this year.
Herewith the BHP logs for KZN (Played only against other KZN teams and including the 40 minute games at the start of the season)…OK when I paste it it looks weird. Will give the total stats to Beet so he can publish, but the bottomline is as follows….
Rank Team Avg
1 Kearsney 3.50
2 Westville BHS 2.81
3 Glenwood 2.67
4 Hilton 2.25
5 Maritzburg College 1.79
6 DHS 1.19
7 George Campbell 0.86
8 Northwood 0.75
9 Michaelhouse 0.75
10 St Charles 0.40
@RBugger: Everybody put in front of you, or everybody you chose to put in front of yourselves? At KERF you guys chose to only play Gim plus two easier games.
With respect to KES and Pretoria BHS, we all know that number of players chosen is not always a true reflection. If it was then Glenwood would be No 1 in KZN with 18 players in the two teams – Kearsney a very distant 3rd with “only 8” players. You might acknowledge this does not reflect strength.
KES managed a draw with Monument 2 weeks ago and they apparently have 8 CW players. Monument travelled down to Glenwood last week and won. Westville beat KES on the highveld. So how do you explain that?
Bottom line is, until the teams have played each other you cannot say for sure who is better.
Pity is we will never know.
@star: Just looking at the sides Westville have played locally-talking about sides of any consequence- Empangeni and port natal are 2nd tier teams and Northwood have struggled so too have Michaelhouse. It does come down to the College and Westville encounters but on form, I think that Kearsney are the number 1 team, followed by Glenwood, then Westville and College in 4th position but that could change after the game in Pmb.
I have to agree with RBugger. Kearsney do seem to be the strongest side in KZN this year. They are a very complete team and above that have some match deciding individuals AND 2 SA Schools players. Fact is, the Doops do have a very big influence on that side and yes they can win without them. But, with them they are something else. In my opinion had they played GWD with them there, the winning margin would have been 10+ points!
Kearsney do deserve number 1 in kzn with Glenwood 2nd. College,WBHS and Hilton fighting it out for the other 3 positions.
@Star: You ask who we have beaten, well, the answer is everybody put in front of us ( bar Gim )
Westville have also not beaten any of the top sides – I am afraid to say Kes and PBHS (MY OLD SCHOOL) are not that strong this year – no CW players coming from either side.
I am a fan of Westville and supported you guys at KERF, but the reality is, KC have a stronger team and have more of an x-factor about them.
I am not saying this in an arrogant manner, but KC are from what I have seen, the best team in KZN.
The boys have hit their straps and I would have loved to see them play Westville. Just think KC do not get the respect they deserve – last year, with a very young team, they could have been the top side in KZN – they slipped up against Hilton and then lost to a strong MHS team at MHS – this game was very close too.
Really hope this weekends game goes ahead
@Woltrui – if only it was as simple as that ;) and that everyone would agree with your call.
@star: KES are not the team they were and that goes for PBHS. You struggled to a win over MHS at home . This is my opinion but should Westville have played against Glenwood then I think the GM would have come out tops(speculation). I can say that only one local team gave us any trouble and that was the close win against Glenwood.
6 Boys in CW 22 and 2 in the Acadamy side . It is a pity that we didn’t play you at bowdens .That would have put it beyond doubt but you still need to play College and I hope they are over the illness that has plagued them. I think they are a hard nut to crack at home and Glenwood bare testimomy to this. I was there and the passion showed was unbelievable. Good luck against George Campbell.
@Woltrui: Consider yourself kicked off the panel that decides
As neutral I can give you Charkies the sought after answer(it is in fact very easy):
No 1 first team in Charkieland:
-Glenwood
No 1 rugby school in Charkieland
-Maritzburrow
weather aside i honestly believe that kearsney must be the top side this year if they beat college and hilton in the next two weeks. Westville i believe we would have beaten as we have beaten them consistently through the age group from under 14.
@ RBugger- Why is it a no brainer? Who have you beaten of any consequence. GW at home by a point or two and that is it.Westville have beaten PBHS, KES in the red den and the tricky Hilton.We both beat Framesby but Westville did so by a substantially bigger margin.And you must remember you were at home. You cannot really take the 20 minute a side practice session at KP seriously. And if so then Westville will have to claim 2 victories against MC and the one at Wartberg was the proper duration.I have said that this is KCs time but for all the paper and selections it has to be done between the white lines.It is amazing how this season has unfolded with the rain, the politics and now illness. If the game on Saturday gets cancelled and MC beats Westville and KC beats Hilton( do not take this for granted) then KC will be the only undefeated team and will rightfully deserve the No 1 status. Still some rugby to be played.
@Westers: KC are the strongest team in KZN this year and to me, it is certainly a no brainer. I hope that does not come across as arrogant.
Certain key players have stepped up their games nicely and I do not think anyone in KZN will be able to beat them.
It is a massive shame that the Westville game will not be played, but I have to point out, KC dominated them at Kings Park – I know you can’t really read into this but still, a win is a win.
KC deserve the award for best team in KZN – provided they win their remaining games – College hopefully and then Hilton next week
@Westers: Someone around here {waves hands around kop in all directions} is working on a regional “points for/against” table as we speak. You will be amazed at what it will turn up. The only slight flaws in that are the Home/Away scenarion but there is no way we can fit in return matches against each other – only College and Glenwood do that I think (?? .. House/Hilton??), but it is clean and neat. I think it would be a shame if circumstances conspire against KC this year, the core of that team has been about 10 years in the making, so lets see what comes out. Lets listen for the noon-day gun …… but it is almost certain that if the KC-College match does not get played this weekend then it will not be played at all.
@Buffel: You need to forget about the rankings system, the BHP one might be the best of a poor lot but it is still fatally flawed, as is any system where there are not games among all teams. Agree that KC seem the team to beat, but Hilton did it last year against the odds. The KZN title is normally settled on a log basis, 2 points for a win, 1 for a draw. Perhaps the allocation of a point each in the case of a no-result will still do it. Do the scenario, might still point to KC. No axe to grind here, with 2 losses College look out of it anyway.
@Gungets Tuft: I really think both Kearsney and Westville need to continue rugby into term 3. I cannot see why both these schools place such emphasis on football when they dedicate so many/much resources to rugby. Without a longer season I don’t see how either can lay claim to the top spot in KZN. The same applies to any other schools in the province who don’t play into the 3rd term.
@Buffel: Gut tells me Kearsney are stronger, based purely on representative players. Not sure how you think it is a no brainer. You need to read GT’s comments above which are very relevant – ” Teams are that close this year that the difference can be taken care of by playing at home rather than away”.
With so many “unplayed” games it will be unfair to call it between Glenwood, College, Westville and Kearsney. Either no award this year or a joint award.
I have read how we need to play Westville to see who the number 1 team is . No brainer here. On the rankings system we are the top KZN side and having lost just once, having beaten Glenwood, there can only be one outcome. Sorry guys, this year it is Kearsney’s turn,like Michaelhouse had the bragging rights last year. Yes, we need to play College because it is the game that all the boys want to play because of the history of College rugby and the success they have achieved in the past. It was the case when I was at school and nothing has changed.
We will find out at 12 today if the fixture will go ahead this weekend and if not ,can they make it up in the last week of term.
@beet: Someone is going to have to completely dominate, or the points difference is going to have to be that large that a negative result would have made no difference, or there will be no universally satisfactory outcome. Look at last year, Hilton beat KC, but were close to the bottom of the table. If that match had been settled on formula, result would have been wrong, I believe KC might have taken the title from House by a point?
@WBHS Griffon: Eeisch, will leave that to the GW and Ville okes to explain. It’s like a neighbours feud, not sure where, what and why any more. Nearly happened with DHS and GW as well.
The KC game against Westville has been cancelled and will not be played this year. They did play each other however in the game at kings park but that was 40 minutes only. Those were pretty much both 1st teams but KC not having the doops. KC won that game 17-5 and were looking strong.
@Gungets Tuft: Is there any particular reason why Westville and Glenwood did not play this year? I was under the impression that they had a fixture early on in the season at Westville?
I like the idea of an award going to the top school in the province, pity about key fixtures being rained out, going tobe a tough job deciding on who’s top!
@WBHS Griffon: I get a feeling they might need BHP’s ranking formula to figure out no.1 in KZN if KC vs MC gets cancelled as well.
There is actually a luncheon later in the year to had over an award to the top 1st team.
@WBHS Griffon: The difficulty is in finding a date, Kearsney are big on soccer in term 3 and there are apparently a bundle of CW warm-up matches coming up that will strip the sides of all their CW and Academy players. If the KC vs College fixtures do not go ahead this weekend it is going to be difficult to reschedule.
With no WBHS vs Glenwood fixture I don’t see how any accurate ranking will be possible. Teams are that close this year that the difference can be taken care of by playing at home rather than away. No WBHS vs KC and KC vs College makes nonsense of it. Its a shame for the KC “dream team”, this was going to be their pinnacle year, perhaps that will convince them to play a little 3rd Term rugby.
Does anyone know if the Westville vs Kearsney fixture, which was rained out a few weeks ago, is going to be replayed or has been replayed? If Westville beat College, this could be an important fixture on deciding positions 1 and 2 in the province.