For queries: BoishaaiPa@mweb.co.za
The official ranking using the old formula:
| Rank | Team | Avg |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Paul Roos | 4.60 |
| 2 | HJS Paarl | 4.48 |
| 3 | Paarl Gim | 3.96 |
| 4 | Monument | 3.83 |
| 5 | Grey College | 3.81 |
| 6 | Nelspruit | 3.78 |
| 7 | Michaelhouse | 3.70 |
| 8 | Bishops | 3.68 |
| 9 | Outeniqua | 3.57 |
| 10 | Rondebosch | 3.52 |
| 11 | Oakdale | 3.44 |
| 12 | HTS Drostdy | 3.43 |
| 13 | Cherries | 3.31 |
| 14 | SACS | 3.30 |
| 15 | Affies | 3.29 |
| 16 | Dale College | 3.17 |
| 17 | Noord-Kaap | 3.05 |
| 18 | Selborne | 3.00 |
| 19 | Eldoraigne | 2.92 |
| 20 | Worcester Gim | 2.87 |
| 21 | Grey PE | 2.83 |
| 22 | EG Jansen | 2.83 |
| 23 | Jeppe | 2.81 |
| 24 | KES | 2.81 |
| 25 | Durbanville | 2.80 |
| 26 | Middelburg | 2.80 |
| 27 | Boland Landbou | 2.78 |
| 28 | Marlow | 2.74 |
| 29 | Queens College | 2.73 |
| 30 | HTS Middelburg | 2.70 |
| 31 | Maritzburg College | 2.67 |
| 32 | Wynberg BHS | 2.67 |
| 33 | Stellenberg | 2.66 |
| 34 | Heidelberg Volkskool | 2.60 |
| 35 | Alberton | 2.60 |
| 36 | Bellville | 2.60 |
| 37 | AHS Kroonstad (Rooiskool) | 2.58 |
| 38 | Waterkloof | 2.55 |
| 39 | Potchefstroom Gimnasium | 2.53 |
| 40 | Diamantveld | 2.53 |
| 41 | Brackenfell | 2.48 |
| 42 | Oos-Moot | 2.41 |
| 43 | Glenwood | 2.36 |
| 44 | Kingswood | 2.30 |
| 45 | Brandwag Benoni | 2.27 |
| 46 | Rustenburg | 2.19 |
| 47 | Marais Viljoen | 2.15 |
| 48 | Westville BHS | 2.14 |
| 49 | Pionier | 2.13 |
| 50 | Lichtenburg | 2.11 |
Experimental formula with sliding scale for close games
(Please share your views)
| Rank | Team | Avg |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Paul Roos | 4.60 |
| 2 | Bishops | 4.48 |
| 3 | HJS Paarl | 4.48 |
| 4 | Monument | 4.39 |
| 5 | Paarl Gim | 4.38 |
| 6 | Grey College | 4.31 |
| 7 | Nelspruit | 4.09 |
| 8 | Boland Landbou | 3.90 |
| 9 | Outeniqua | 3.86 |
| 10 | EG Jansen | 3.83 |
| 11 | SACS | 3.81 |
| 12 | Selborne | 3.81 |
| 13 | Oakdale | 3.80 |
| 14 | HTS Drostdy | 3.80 |
| 15 | Michaelhouse | 3.70 |
| 16 | Dale College | 3.70 |
| 17 | Jeppe | 3.63 |
| 18 | Affies | 3.54 |
| 19 | Rondebosch | 3.52 |
| 20 | Noord-Kaap | 3.50 |
| 21 | Diamantveld | 3.44 |
| 22 | Marlow | 3.41 |
| 23 | Glenwood | 3.36 |
| 24 | Cherries | 3.31 |
| 25 | HTS Middelburg | 3.27 |
| 26 | Grey PE | 3.25 |
| 27 | Queens College | 3.24 |
| 28 | Waterkloof | 3.18 |
| 29 | Worcester Gim | 3.16 |
| 30 | KES | 3.13 |
| 31 | Bellville | 3.11 |
| 32 | DHS | 3.08 |
| 33 | Maritzburg College | 3.07 |
| 34 | Voortrekker (Bethlehem) | 2.95 |
| 35 | Eldoraigne | 2.92 |
| 36 | Rustenburg | 2.91 |
| 37 | St Andrews | 2.88 |
| 38 | Westville BHS | 2.87 |
| 39 | Middelburg | 2.80 |
| 40 | Durbanville | 2.80 |
| 41 | Kingswood | 2.70 |
| 42 | Potchefstroom Gimnasium | 2.69 |
| 43 | Sentraal | 2.67 |
| 44 | Wynberg BHS | 2.67 |
| 45 | Stellenberg | 2.66 |
| 46 | Heidelberg Volkskool | 2.60 |
| 47 | Alberton | 2.60 |
| 48 | AHS Kroonstad (Rooiskool) | 2.58 |
| 49 | Oos-Moot | 2.56 |
| 50 | Hilton | 2.55 |
Hulle sal eventually uitval want hulle speel nie teen genoeg 1ste spanne nie. Dis nog vroeg in die seisoen…hou julle rokpante vas…daar gaan nog baie skommelinge wees…dis soos n goeie brood deeg…jy moet hom eers knie en werk..dan rys hy later mooi en settle. Positiewe kritiek gee ek nie om voor nie…moangatte krap my om.
@Cappie: well said, het n gevoel hulle gaan volgende naweek weer verloor.
@Cappie: Jy is braaf….
@Cappie: hopelik sal hulle nou uit die rankings verdwyn want geen 2de span hoort daar nie. Skep dan n aparte 2des ranking
O jitte, daar verloor die nr 13 in die land teen ‘n tweede span.
@Andre T: Ek weet waar Keurhof is, ek het jou beskerm teen die swaarde van BOG. Ons het 20 jaar in Klerksdorp gewoon.
Hoe verlang ek nou terug skooldae toe.
@Speartackle: As ek wel Tuks toe ry sien ek julle daar met by botteltjie water.
Ek wik en weeg nog, want dis volgende naweek weer Tuks toe en 23 Mei is ons by Middelburg Tek, so dis baie tolhekke en brandstof die maand.
@Barry: Haha………Keurhof is die JJ Serfontein van Klerksdorp…………en is nader aan HTS en Milner High as aan KHS
@Barry: Ons sal so van 10 uur af daar by die kommentaarhokkie wees by LC . Ek dink die eerste wedstryd wat uigesaai word is 10h50……Kempton vs HTS Middelburg
@BOG: ha-ha-ha ek neem aan jy weet want Keurhof is amper reg langs KHS?
Andre T is nie verniet ontwykend nie. Hy was in KHS toe Mike Schutte die Dux leerling was- in graad 10.@Cappie: Speartackle was in Vrede in 1948, waar hulle die Fichardt skild teen GCB “gewen” het. Maar laat my weet as jy n verslag hieroor opspoor. Ek soek al baie lank
@Cappie: Piet Bergh was groot maat asook Heinie Reyneke wat later Transvaal 8ste man gespeel het. Mnr Pik Hern was die coach en sy broer Ed Hern een van die grootste aandeelmakelaars op JSE geword. Vra jou tjomme of hulle die afrikaanse joodjie, Avrim Nathan kon onthou, en vir Smiley wat later met Nonnie getroud is, Ek is hy.
@Speartackle: Is dit waar hy sy streek weg het?
Dan was jy amper deel van die ou manne, Koos Bek, Piet Bergh, Gaffie Deale, Giel Saaiman ens…
@Speartackle: Ek sien jy is bang om vir my te sê presies waar ek môre my eiers oor die radio kan kom lê wat ons seuns se rugby betref…..ha-ha
Wat wou, Klerksdorp is my ‘grootword’ tuiste en dit was vir my glad nie goor nie. Miskien was jou ervaring van Klerksdorp anders, maar dit help jy’s kwaad vir die plek nie, dalk was die probleem by jou.
@Cappie: Kom ek stel dit so…………ek was in matriek toe Jurie Els in graad 1 was
@Barry: Nee hel Barry………ek dink naas Bloem is Klerksdorp seker die goorste plek noord van die Paarl
@Speartackle: Wanneer was jy in Vrede? Was jy daar toe Piet Steyn nog hoof was?
@Speartackle: KHS het dit nog altyd gehad soos die baie ander skole dit ook maar het. Super skole kan nie daardie kleim afsteek nie.
Sien ek dra twee vlae, Nellies vir my seuns (drie van hulle) en KHS myself. Ek’t ‘n tyd terug met ‘n onderwyser van KHS gepraat wat gesê het hulle sukkel met leerder getalle oor die ‘ontvolking’ van die platteland. Die kinders word jaarliks minder en minder, en dis jammer want dit is en was ‘n puik skool. As dit nie so ver van Nellies af was nie was my seuns daar. Hoewel ek moet by sê Nellies het ‘n ryke tradisie en is ‘n skool wat steeds baie hoë waardes en uitstekende onderwysers het.
Het KHS ook nou latynse slagspreuke?
Gedog dit is net die super skole
Vrede s’n is sommer net ……..Mik Hoog
@Andre T: Diligenter inderdaad …..ons aanhou tot ons slaag…
@Barry: Diligenter
@Andre T: Nee Johan was na my, maar ek was saam sy suster Elna in dieselfde groep.
@BOG: Die Wesrand is n tropiese paradys, dit word nie donker daar
@Barry: Nee bliksem Barry………toe ek in matriek was het Dingaan nog vir Vasco da Gama ge’bodyguard’
Was jy saam Johan de Vries?
@Andre T: Ek was in KHS toe die Voortrekkermonument nog ‘n tent was.
Ek was daar 1977-81. Klink my jy was ook daar?
Klink vir my of daar baie plek in daardie kommentaarhokkie is. Wat is nog daar?
@Andre T: Jy se dat Monnas nie bevoordeel was nie, maar ek hoor dat LOL in Krugersdorp staan vir “Lots of Loadshedding”. Hulle het seker in die donker voorberei?
@Barry: Wanneer was jy in KHS?
@Barry: Sal nice wees om n Nellies ook daar in die kommentaarhokkie te he
@Die Ken: Vertel my Ken?
@Barry: @Speartackle: Sterkte Barry, jy gaan baie drank nodig he!
@Speartackle: Baie dankie vir die uitnodiging en dan sal my vrou ook sommer weet waar ek is.
Ek gaan die hele dag daar wees. My seun speel 8h00 en bench weer later vir hulle A-span, plus ek wil bly vir die Nellies vs Monnas wedstryd. Tussen deur wil ek ook kyk na my ou almamater (KHS) se warm O/14 spannetjie.
Ek aanvaar die uitnodiging. Waar kry ek julle?
@Barry: Gaan jy ons kom join daar in die kommentaarhokkie vir n paar ‘indrukke’ voor die wedstryd?
@Rugbyman Ek’s nie bang vir ‘n debat nie, dus het my boodskap het dalk verkeerd deurgekom. Gesonde debat is uiters belangrik anders sal dinge nooit verander nie of verbeter nie. Daar is egter maniere om dinge te doen, maar soos ons almal weet as dinge warm raak, raak dit dikwels lelik.
Ja, ek is nuut op die blog, so ek sal maar sien hoe dinge hier gaan.
@Andre T = gekos is watter opsig? Hoor ek verskonings voor môre?
Daai Ierland toer het ons gekos teen HJS en PRG……………..
@Barry: Goeie dag… Is gesonde debat teen jou beginsels? Almal kan tog nie saamstem nie… Die blog is nie net daar om mekaar se ruggies te krap nie, dis ook daar om debat te voer en met mekaar te verskil… Ek dink werklik nie iemand was lelik met iemand anders nie… Jy is nuut op die blog en jy het nog nie gesien wanneer die manne mekaar rerig vat nie…
Ontspan gerus en geniet die blog…
Sterkte vir julle game teen Monnas!
Manne, manne, manne…..waarom so baklei oor ‘n stelsel en proses wat ons nie sal kan verander nie. Die ‘rankings’ is sekerlik tog net en soortvan ‘n aanduiding van spanne se vordering. It’s not cast in stone. Daar word te veel klem gelê op iets wat nie regtig belangrik is nie.
Die seuns moet hulle rugby geniet en dit speel vir die liefde van die spel en om hulle vaardighede en kennis te ontwikkel. Dis ons as ouers en onderwysers wat ten alle koste wil wen. Ek hoor hoe ouers praat op pawiljoene, soos ek die ander dag gesê het, ek sit graag tussen die ouers van ander skole en luister na hulle op- en aanmerkings. Ons seuns is steeds kinders.
Jare terug het ek in Cartonville gesien hoe twee ‘anties’ mekaar met die vuis slaan en hare trek omdat die een skool se seun die ander skool se seun te hard ‘getackle’ het. Ma 1 het gejuig oor die tackle en Ma 2 het oorgegaan tot aanval. Dinge het nie verander nie.
Wenne en ‘rankings’ sal bly, maar ons moet dit rustig vat, want ons bepaal hoe ons kinders daarop reageer. Hulle leer by ons en is dit regtig nodig dat ons baklei oor ‘trivial’ goedters? Ons moet ons seuns eerder leer om tot sy eie volle potensiaal te ontwikkel en te speel as om met mekaar te stry. Ek vra altyd: “is it worth dying for?” Antwoord is eenvouding, vir wenne en ‘rankings’ nee, beslis nie ……..vir my en jou kind se welstand, ja verseker ……..
Nee Manne kom ons praat mooi met mekaar en hanteer mekaar met respek, dis maklik,
Sterkte vir al ons kinders môre en die naweek aan verskillende sporte, ligas en toernooie deelneem. Ons is trots op ons kinders want hulle kon elders gewees het besig met goed wat nie noodwendig ons goedkeuring weg dra nie. Ek bid dat niemand erensitg sal seerkry nie, en dat almal hulle tyd saam mekaar sal geniet, hetsy wen of verloor.
@Tang: There is no denying that we owe our change in fortunes to Dale Jackson and his brother and couple of other people who saw it fit to intervene to rescue the school. I have no doubt Boys High is a great school. We at Jeppe have never been strong academics do get me wrong boys do okay… but we will never average two distinctions per boy we still trying to all the boys to pass matric and then the next step will be for then to get into university and that is a pursuit that staff are striving for……. However I may wrong but long held traditional games that were played against Potchefstroom Boys High School are no longer occurring… Sadly at least maybe not so much in pta but in Joburg the fear of turning out like Highlands North or even worse Athlone Boys is traumatising. I always envied Boys High but the truth is that the remaining top Milner schools are standing on the shoulders and ashes of an ever eroding and crumbling state school system. Which makes places at those schools that grab highlights and feature in rugby rankings more desirable.
@Rugbyman – I think you are quite right. Boys High will have to move to a more professional approach to rugby.
The other sports are strong and performing exceptionally well.
@MikeSt: @Rugbyman: Op papier en volgens die ranking is dit “one way traffic” vir EG net soos dit vir Eldo was in die quarters, maar ons weet mos die rankings vergelyk nie noodwendig sterkte nie.
Dink dit gaan baie taai wees vir beide. Ek gaan egter net terugsit op die pawiljoen en die “show” geniet. Albei spanne gaan so teen 15:00 se kant weet hulle was in ‘n game gewees.
@Ringo Here are my responses to a few of your points.
1) I don’t hate Jeppe at all. I am a big fan of the Jeppe revival and have nothing but admiration for the school.
2) I don’t believe I mentioned Boys High are in decline just because the rugby results are not on par with a few years back. I judge Boys High on academic results and I can tell you that very few of the large boys schools are on par with Boys High. Even though there are no sports bursaries or Theo Jackson type scholarships, the number of Boys applying for Boys High has not shown any decline over the last few years.
3) There is no similarity between the proximity of Boys High to the Pretoria CBD and Jeppe to the JHB CBD. Boys High have an excellent catchment area and there is no sign that this is in decline. As mentioned earlier, there is also no sign that numbers or academic standard are declining. Last year was not a good academic year by Boys High standards and yet there were still far more Maths and Science distinctions per boy than most large boys schools.
4) At no time, past or present have Boys High benefited from Bull’s recruits. Your statement about Boys High being beneficiaries of Bulls recruits in the 2000’s is not correct.
5) Boys High is not on the verge of collapse and does not require a massive intervention to change the fortunes of the school. The school is healthy, producing good academic results and good sporting results (rugby is the only exception). Again, I think you mistakenly believe rugby rankings are an indicator of a school’s health. I find this rather sad as I thought Jeppe Boys stood for a lot more than just a good rugby ranking. Boys High have no crisis of identity because there are a few bad rugby results.
6) How would you explain the turn around in Jeppe rugby? If you believe it is not linked to Theo Jackson bursaries or other old boy bursaries, I would be intrigued to get your point of view. That was the only point I made about Jeppe. The rugby turn around seems to be tightly linked to the level of activity of the Theo Jackson fund.
@Rugbyman: Kom ons se vir die een even dogs.
Sterkte daar by julle ook. Sien more
@MikeSt: uitgerus dalk… weet nie van uitgeslape nie… selfs nie eers jy kan julle in die underdogs in praat vir more nie mike!
Sterkte vir die game!
@kwartlyn: Dink die manne in beheer steur hulle nie veel aan stats voor n semi nie. Rugbyman is n uitgeslape man……
@Grasshopper: Oos-Moot is a school in Pretoria that used to be quite a force before the rise of all the Pretoria East school’s.
@Cappie: Very nice (gee hoendervleis)
@kwartlyn: Moet tog daardie kristalbal waarin jy kyk vir my ook leen………..
So van aktiewe pasiewe bemarking gepraat. Hier lok ons die kinders om kultuur te kom beoefen en nie noodwendig sport nie:
https://www.facebook.com/OudAffieBond
Kyk gerus die video”clip”
Go “Cherries”
@Roger: You probably right regarding the rise of the mentioned schools. There are a couple of others as well.
I think there is another reason for PBHS demise. PBHS regularly attracted kids from good Afrikaans primary schools. They generally made a strong contribution at the lower age levels and when they reached U/16/ open level the playing fields were equal. This is sadly no longer the case. I know of a few boys that wanted to go to Affies but ended up at PBHS due to the fact that they would not have made the Affies A team.
20 years ago John Vorster, Oos-Moot and a few others were giants in Pretoria. I think Djou last year explained the reasons for the shift in power in Pretoria due to the change in demographics and rise of Pta East.
I would love to see a strong rugby playing PBHS and think Rugbyman is right when he says that they might have to adapt to the changing world.
@Ringo: but I do agree with you on rugby at Boys High – their decline is due more to the rise of schools like Garsfontein, Menlo Park, Centurion, Eldoraigne etc than sports bursaries. KES lost 14 games in a row to Boys High from 1999-2008. Until that period the overall record between the two schools was 50-50. Since 2009 KES has had the better of the fixture so slowly we are clawing our way back!
@Rugbyman: makes a valid point and it seems Boys High are been left behind. Twenty years ago there were only three schools in Pta who could consistently churn out good teams – Affies, Boys High and Waterkloof – that’s all changed now and parents have a far wider choice
@Ringo: bit of a rant there old chap! I’m curious – why on earth would KES want to split the proceeds of their festival with anyone?
and by the way – Mjekevu was at Dale before Selborne – if you really want the low down on the Dale boys who followed Carl Spilhaus to KES in 2008/9 ask @Playa:
I’ve always thought the Red Jersey was magnificent but that’s just me
and I can tell you for free that Adidias and festival money or not – there will never be any vile sponsorship splashed across that jersey.
@Die Ken: Ag wat die tou staan om die blok met lang messe!
Boishaaipa en ek het so klein bietjie van ‘n love/hate relationship… Ek like hom eintlik baie! kwartlyn haat garsfontein uit beginsel uit en tandem back maar net sy boitjie… Each to his own…
@Rugbyman: Die Langmesse is uit vir jou! Eers @BoishaaiPa, toe @kwartly, toe @tandem… jy moet passop, hule gaan jou slag
@kwartlyn: Die skuld gee? Wie kan mens die skuld gee vir wat? Ons het niemand die skuld gegee vir enige iets wat gebeur nie… Ons het die jaar al baie verloor en niemand daarvoor beskuldig nie… ons vat dit op die ken en gaan werk aan ons foute… maar dankie vir jou waardevolle inset! Sterkte vir jou span die naweek ook!
@Tandem: I wasnt rude… and no I am not a teacher…
@Roger: @Tang: I have it on good authority that the strategy at KES was to aggressively recruit and buy players to win at all costs and hence their teams during the years 2005 – 2011 resembled something very close to sbr barbarians for instance Mjekevu 2008 KES 1st XV captain was a Selborne boy. The idea was to build a brand that would result in the soo called passive recruitment at the school. However the reality is that in the same they created a lot of hurt and resentment. Because for a school like Jeppe that was ridding the soo called natural circle of strength and weakness we often would groom boys through the ages to only see them turnout in hideous red jersey in the last years of high school and it is not just rugby. It happens in all sports that is just the KES way. So what I say is long may Glendwood plunder all the best sportsmen from KEPS and PTA east primary schools in a way they have levelled the playing fields and have beat KES at your own game. On saints there strength was always through the post matric all stars they used to be able to assemble. But now they have also the Glenwood model which throws a spanner in the mix. Let us not pretend that most schools have not adopted a win at all costs stance and cheque books are getting bigger and bigger in the pursuit of just one more win.
@Rugbyman: Totally not necessary to be this aggressive and rude . Are you not a teacher or coach there at Garsfontein ?
@Tang: The hatred you have for Jeppe although understood is unjustified…. my memories of rugby against boys high is Oscar the famous athlete from that school and his friends taunting us and signing “Wednesday fixture Wednesday fixture”. My little brother in his first ever rugby match playing u14a loosing 114 – 0 and the closest game being 68 -0 loss by our u16a’s…. there was nothing natural or traditional about the gap between the schools then. Just for your information during the early 2000’s the blue bulls used to split their recruits 3 and 2 between boys high and Affies. The other thing was that boys high were the beneficiary of perceived notion in pta that only boys from the boys high and affies were selected for craven week. The reality is that bursaries are not the reason why your rugby is no longer at the very top of schools rugby. The decline of boys high stems from the improvement of Menlo Park and other Pretoria East suburban schools. The truth is that pig headed administrators were slow to adapt to the changing socia economic circumstances in our country. The Pretoria cbd is where the joburg cbd was 15 years ago and the proximity of your school to the cbd means your school will take the path that Jeppe took in the early 2000’s. Sadly unless you take drastic measures it will only get worse before it gets better. The reality is that coca cola does not keep its success due to the fact that it was the drink that people traditionally drank…. it stays at the top by innovating and staying ahead of the competition and adopting and most importantly doing anything possible to survive. @Roger: of course the reds do not need a car dealership name spread across their Jersey they have Adidas and the proceeds of festival that was meant to be rotate among three schools that they decided to keep to themselves. Recruitment and poaching without remorse from your peers. Scara (eastern cape) and Matt Arnold (Jeppe) to name but a drop in a shameless pit of self indulgence. The pot can never call the kettle black and before any kzn blogger gets on their high horses DHS,Westville and more famously in recent times Glenwood do it too
Net verder petrol op die vuur die finale sal tussen Monnas en EG wees met Monnas met 20 op EG sorry Mike maar dit is hoe dit is, en Rugbyman vir wie gaan jy hierdie jaar die skuld gee ek wonder
Hi MikeST en Rugbyman–enige idee hoe laat Garsfontein/ EG Jansen en Monnas/Nelspruit games Vrydag is ..?? Dit behoort weer 2 rillers re wees..Hoop net Jansies en Monnas se lywe is nie te seer na Wildeklawer nie..
@MikeSt: @Rugbyman: Voorspoed aan albei julle spanne dit gaan n great game wees, Mike een tip vir julle span julle speel teen n span wat gelys word bo50 maar gelukkig onder 100 in SA en rugbyman in die lynstane laat jou springers net spring waar jul groot gevaar spring
@star:
Come on Star, you’re better than that
@Rugbyman:
@Rugbyman: stem saam
@beet: a pity the one semifinal is between a top 20 team vs a team not in the top 50 in the country! Should then be a walk in the park for the top 20 team…
@kosie: I tell you what Kosie, anyone from Pretoria who loves SBR and is not at or outside the Tukkies stadium on Friday is certifiable
What a day. On par with the best rugby festival day anywhere in SA.
@GreenBlooded: @Rugbyman: Arr, Pretoria tomorrow it is. It’s the last PBHS tour of my lighties school career, time I made the trip. Get to visit the Affies campus as well for some hockey, looking forward to a good day.
25 rugby teams, 18 hockey teams. For the cynics of travel, that’s why these school Derby days are so valued. Stories about the “strength” of these two schools are misplaced. Over 600 boys all playing competitive sport for their schools, that’s a winner.
@BoishaaiPa: ag hou jou broek asb tog aan en skoon!
Skeel my eintlik min oor waar jy ons rate… in praktyk is daar iets nie reg nie en jy hoef niks rondom dit verduidelik nie. Ek het ook nie gevra vir n verduideliking van jou nie, bloot gesê dat dit nie logies sin maak nie! Jy weet, ek weet en almal weet dat in konteks die spanne wat ek na verwys het beter resultate het, maar in praktyk nooit kan kers vashou by skole soos garsfontein en menlo of waterkloof nie! Ons kan ook teen heelwat swakker oposisie gaan speel en al ons games gemaklik wen, realiteit is dat ons teen die bestes wil speel om te verbeter. Daarom verloor ek eerder n game met 10 punte as wat ek n game met 90 wen… As dit dan beteken dat ons onder skole soos heidelberg en alberton gerate word en ook onder marais viljoen (wat ons terloops met 50 gewen het) then so be it… As jy nie kritiek kan hanteer nie, koop n boek en lees op oor hoe om dit te doen… As jy eerlikwaar dink in praktyk dat ons swakker as al die spanne op die top 50 is, sê dan so… jy weet dit is nie so nie…
Ek het ook in my post genoem dat ek dink jy probeer jou bes… magties maar jy haat kritiek…
@boishaaiPa: Dink jou woordkeuse was dalk verkeerd. Jy kan nie sê Garsies kompeteer nie met Heidelberg nie, maar dan steeds vir Heidelberg in dieselfde ranglys plaas as die een waar Garsies moontlik sy verskyning kan maak op nommer “83” – dit maak dit outomaties kompetsie. As die 2 skole in dieselfde ranglys is dan kompeteer hulle mos vir plekke.
Maar ons weet Heidelberg sal Garsies met minstens 50 punte klop, derhalwe dat hulle ver bo Garsies is.
@star: nobody cares about context, injuries, travel, tight schedules, close games, three interception tries, altitude, score at half time or the weather – it doesn’t reflect on the record books. Put your big girl panties on and move forward to the next match …
@GreenBlooded: Pretoria is the place to be on Friday for super SBR! PBHS host College and about 5 km down the road 16 schools play at Tuks in the Tuks reeks.
May all have a safe journey!
@Tang: I happen to know the director you refer to very well… he is the right guy for the job but will need the buy in from the school, old boys and parents… rightly or wrongly schoolboy rugby has moved on, on a number of fronts, recruitment being just one of them. If the school and old boys dont buy into change on these various fronts, pta boys high will not improve on the rugby field!
It is time for boys high to be realistic and to have a more open minded approach on just how much the game has moved on in the last 10 years or so! I think you guys should listen carefully at your director and his views and decide whether you want to be competitive against the top teams – which will mean some changes or to take the hammering on the field and stick to what you have been doing for the last 15 years… change is not always a bad thing! To have a director of rugby with the knowledge and credentials of ryno vd merwe is a good thing, not listening to him and not empowering him to make changes is a waste of money…
Use it or dont use it!
@Tang:
Starting the journey up tomorrow. Looking forward to a great day at PBHS on Friday. If you are around, Rugger Fan and I would like to make your aquaintance. It looks like ou GT is going to pass up on all the long weekend towing and make the trip as well – so perhaps a blogger eye-ball is in order!!
@Rugbyman: Wat wel logies sin maak is dat as jou span miskien meer gereeld wen sal sy posisie verbeter…as jy nie die logika van die rankings verstaan nie gaan ek nie weer probeer verduidelik nie…julle kompeteer nie met Heidelberg nie…In konteks doen hulle beter as julle. Vra vir Beet om die kategorie rankings te plaas..miskien maak dit meer sin vir jou.
@Vleis
Yes it does look like St Stithians are trying to put an emphasis on rugby and the age group teams are looking pretty strong.
Southdowns had Kwezi Mafu last year (he went to Grey PE this year). If he went to Boys High, I doubt he would have left Pretoria. He would have also been a serious addition to the Boys High team this and next year. He was a Bulls recruit.
I thought St Albans had benefited far more from the Bulls recruits. Sorry if I gave the impression that St Albans enjoy recruits every year from the Bulls. Only two is as bad as not having at all.
@Roger – hopefully this never changes.
@Roger: My point was actually very simple. EG KES has only played 7 games and therefore Westville has more than DOUBLE the exposure to the effects of attrition. Rightly or wrongly this will have an effect on performance and therefore the rankings. This was the context that I believe is missing in certain ranking models.
This does not mean that I am denying other schools have to deal with injuries or making excuses. As regards the ability to close out games. Westville had 2 great victories at KERF and if memory serves me correctly they involved great close outs. So maybe just maybe …..
@star: cry me a river – every school has to deal with injuries. You KZN types love to blame scheduling and altitude and travel and and and if the results don’t go your way – if my aunty had balls she’d be my uncle!
Maybe – just maybe Westville can’t close a game out?
and why put such a ludicrous schedule together if it is detrimental to the boys?
I think House have it spot on – good on them.
@Tang: heh – there is no Mr Price or the local motor dealer or paint store on our jersey either – long may it last!
@Tang: I’ve followed St Alban’s rugby for about five years and know of only two players that attended the school as Bulls recruits – one went on to make SA schools. I don’t know of any Bulls recruits that attended PBHS during such time, as the english-speaking recruits go to Southdowns.
Going forward, it’ll be very difficult for both schools to compete without some form of recruitment – especially St Alban’s with only 11 rugby teams. I’ve noticed that St Stithian’s are slowly pulling themselves towards the top table. Their head of rugby, who joined a few years ago, has ensured strong recruits at grade 8 level each year, so their junior teams are performing pretty well, as evidenced below:
– u16A have won 11 out of 12 including beating Jeppe;
– u15A have won 10 out of 11, including wins over SAC (Ght) and Hilton; and
– u14A are not quite as good yet (may take a year or two for some to learn rugby), but have beaten both Jeppe and KES (38 to 0!).
Of course, with 800 boys, Saints is not small either…so watch that space.
@LAEVELDER: Ek hou ook van jou trui.
@Cappie: I agree with you on the travelling issue, however parents would also love to see their boys play and can’t travel to most of the games. It’s way to expensive. It’s a situation we have come to accept. We want to play the best.
Boys will be boys and they will play with hand tied behind their back if they have to, we as parents and teachers need to manfnage the situation.
@Barry:Recruitment is definitely is a reality, and I will try to link up to what Tang said.
You get your actively active ones that walks around openly with contracts all over the country to make flourishing acquisitions. Then you get your passively active ones, who has the money, but do not spend them wisely. Followed by that you will have your actively passive one’s, who makes use of historical ethnicities to convince someone to go their school by offering them some sort of lifestyle, without paying money. Your forth group is your passively passive ones that hopes for the best and leaves it to the rest. It is open for debate who belongs where.
With respect to Nelspruit, unfortunately you are far from other schools that are in the same league than you with respect to rugby quality, therefor have to travel. However be grateful about that, because once the quality goes down, down would go the available talent. Pupils that believe that they have quality, wants to play against the best in the country. I think Grey College drives double the distances per year than Nellies do.
Concerning the over playing of the kids, a balance for first team players should be in the order of between 15 and 20 matches per year, which need to include the matches they would play in provincial colours. For what I have realize over the past month, is that the games should be spread evenly over the season, so that you don’t play a huge chunk in a short period. For the lower rank teams they normally want to play as many as possible, but unfortunately do not always get the opportunities. I wish they can get more opportunities.
Baie waar woorde wat Laevelder daar sê, om die sweet spot te kry!
@star: this statement is 100% spot on:
“Let us not kid ourselves. Rankings ( and there are several for a reason) are observed by the boys and parents and therefore schools would be lying if they said they did not keep an eye on them.”
In terms of hits, the BHP rankings on this site have always been very popular. There isn’t that much to attract the interest of school players on this website as its mainly aimed at the adults but if there is one thing the kids share an interest in, it’s measuring themselves against others particularly when they are doing well. It’s all part and parcel of a very competitive sport. That level of competitiveness extends to the coaching and managing staff as well. The last thing anyone wants is to be undervalued.
The rankings are definitely not everyone’s cup of tea but some don’t really have a choice but to take them seriously so it’s worth the effort to try and make them as accurate as possible
So daar is n fyn lyn tussen meer games is beter teenoor minder games. Meer games vergroot die kanse op beserings en ooreising maar die blootstelling wat n skool kry om in n Prestige Paastoernooi of Wildeklawer te speel tel ook gewig! Deesdae n wetenskap op sy eie om die sweetspot te kry vir games per jaar
@Barry:
Hi Barry.. nice trui! Nelspruit het 8 al gespeel nog 2 vir Tuks reeks, 3 vir Beeld groep games, dan as hul verder gaan nog 3 tot finale.. so dalk 16/17 games vir skool sonder proewe, opwarmings games vir Cravenweek en dan party seuns sal dalk 2/3 games start op CW. So in totaal kan n seun dalk 25 games speel as hy nie beseer of roteer word nie.. Dink skole soos Monnas se seuns kan draai oor die 30 .. tuff op die lywe ja.. Monnas en ander stad rugbyskole (EG ook)hul se seuns speel al van onder 14 af meer games per jaar so wanneer hul matriek is het hul al goeie muscle memory
So we are on the recruitment issue again. Did someone the other day not say that recruitment of players are not happening? That was a lie, it happens.
That is why I keep saying that certain schools want to win at all cost and they will keep recruiting without shame but with favour.
I do not really understand how the different rankings for schools work, but I can imagine it’s difficult. Some schools play 30/25/15 games a season and others only 10.
The bigger the school the more games they get to play, am I correct? Being in Nelspruit our 1st team will only play (I think) 13 games for the season should thay progess to the finals of the three different compititions they play in. Thing is, we have to travel for almost every game and have very few home games.
I am asking a simple question, are we not over playing our boys at school level, afterall they are still children?
@Tang: Your explaination about the active and passive recruitment is absolutely valid. I have no idea how Boys High recruites, but what I know, is that they are entering a stage where quit a number of surrounding schools and Glenwood are very active, who takes the cream, leaving the crumbs behind.
Boys High will be left with a choice, adapt to remain a rugby force to be recognisable, or leave it and end up like John Vorster who use to give the top schools a hammering, but who is now playing against Affies third team. They could just win Oos Moot the other day with one point.
@Cappie – Still many Afrikaans speaking boys who attend PBHS. I would still put the number at 30%.
Your points can not be disputed. If Boys High want to play rugby and place a high value on rankings, they will almost certainly have to succumb to the inevitable and begin to offer sports bursaries. Just look what it has done for Jeppe rugby. Boys High will also have to look at a more professional approach at all age group levels.
I must say I am very conflicted about the right or wrong approach. Whilst I love the fact that only Boys High Boys with no sponsors logos are playing solely for the badge, I also understand how hard it is to lose by 50 points.
Maybe Boys High can find a balance and perform better without being too professional.
@Rugbyfan – Affies, Paarl Boys, Paarl Gim, Paul Roos are all major beneficiaries of passive recruitment.
How do the teams on the outside compete? If the answer was just numbers, they would build more class rooms. However, you don’t see this happening. What you see is active recruitment to combat the power of passive recruitment.
The more schools who covet top rankings, the more money will be thrown at sports bursaries to try to get into the top 10.
I call this problem the law of diminishing recruit returns. There is not a linear correlation between the number of recruits and where you will be ranked. Imagine if the formula was simple – buy 5 players and you make the top 20. Buy 10 players and you make the top 10. Buy 15 players and you make the top 5. unfortunately, it is difficult to predict how recruits will perform. Adjust the formula – start to buy when the players are older and have made a Grant Khomo team (a lot more predictable) but also a lot more certain to cause drama (just ask Glenwood).
How many recruits is enough? Ask some of the schools in Pretoria who covet a top 10 ranking more than anything else. How many players do they need to acquire, what level must the player be at? The more schools get into this game, the more difficult it will become to get the good recruits. This is all about supply and demand. If supply is limited, prices will rise. It is an economic issue for the schools on the outside to try and sit at the table of the schools who are already enjoying the three course meal.
@rugbyfan: I think the focus at Boys High has shifted a little bit more than expected away from rugby. Try to beat them in other sports like hockey, athletics, swimming, table tennis (lots of Chinese here), and the like and you would struggle. Seeing that it is one of the few traditional, or “the one” traditional English school in Pretoria, they are attracting a large number of so called “forreigners” who’s main sport is not rugby. Between Affie en Boys high, there were always 28+ rugby matches against each other. This figure has also drop. They are struggling to fill the lower teams, and then they get hammered against the other schools.
To get this back on track again would entail an entire conscious mindshift again, with a vision and focus to bring it back, should they wish to do so, otherwise (and I wish I could be wrong) it is downhill for Boys High in rugby for the future.
Also in the past lots of Afrikaans speaking parents send there kids to Boys High, so that they do not have to struggle like we did to learn the language. This has also change. Every kid can now speak English and parents do not see the reason for them to go there to learn English any more. Nowedays they belief to be educated in your home language is the best for the kids future.
@star: At last, someone who has said what I’ve been thinking all along
@Rugbyfan – On the surface I would agree with you but let me explain a little further.
There is active and passive recruitment. Grey are probably the best advert for passive recruitment as there is an implied benefit of attending Grey. The implied benefit is – I am more likely to be selected for Craven Week, SA Schools, Springbok if I attend Grey than I would be if I attended Sentraal.
When last did Boys High have an A team Craven Week player? When last (if ever) did Boys High benefit from the Bulls recruitment of players. Southdowns college and St Albans had more benefit from the Bulls recruitment that Boys High. Many of the recruits have made Craven Week and the school gets a boost from this.
Boys High therefore don’t actively or passively recruit. Number of students at a school is a convenient but not a relevant metric for rugby rankings (It is relevant for Hockey, Cricket and Polo where numbers play a role). The lesser sports where recruitment is not as active are true indicators and there is a correlation between them and rankings. Sadly in rugby, there is no such correlation.
@Star – you point out some of the variables which no ranking system can accomodate as we don’t understand the impact of the variables.
As I have pointed out over and over – schools have to be classified as “premier league” or “top rugby school” and then ranked in accordance with the league they are in.
As a matter of interest, Boys High play there first home fixture on Friday against Maritzburg College. When Boys High travel to Westville later in May they would have played two home fixtures against teams in the top 35.
@Tang: A school with so many boys should be a Top 20 school even in a bad year.
I suppose the same could be said about KES I think they also have over a 1000 boys.
@Tang: What would be of interest is how many boys are there at boys high the last I heard was around the 1200/1300 mark if that is the case Boys High should question even without recruiting and throwing money at bursaries how do they not manage with the number of boys they have to push out a above average team every year?
Maybe coaching or leadership.
@beet – I fear the schools that don’t recruit are also the ones who will do the least to point out the inequalities between schools who recruit and schools who don’t. Obviously I have a Boys High bias but there is no doubt in my mind that there is a valid correlation between schools who actively recruit and how high up they rank.
Recruitment and sports bursaries are variables that I believe have the biggest impact on results. How else can you explain some schools seemingly meteoric rise up the rankings tables.
What I find so ironic is how these very schools down play the impact of recruiting and bursaries.
As good an idea as the scorecard seemed, I think it will perish as it will expose what is truly behind results and rankings.
@Cappie – Very embarrassing to say the least. I think a number of factors are now catching up with Boys High (none of these are excuses for the losses).
1) This side seems to give up if they don’t believe they are going to win a game (Grey PE and Bishops). Against Bishops, the defense was just poor and the side let themselves down. Maybe 5 in the team were giving 100%.
2) Very poor individual skills – kicking out of hand is particularly bad. Against Grey PE and Bishops, they kicked the ball to very dangerous back lines and got punished.
3) Years of not having proper coaching structures from u14 to open level. Boys High only appointed the director of rugby late last year. He has a massive challenge to get Boys High rugby sorted out.
4) No sports bursaries. I think Boys High is not attracting top rugby talent as there are more attractive options outside of Boys High. One would expect the boarding houses to provide more top sports people but only those on Alan Gray scholarships don’t pay boarding fees. Alan Gray is not based on sporting prowess.
5) I may be wrong but I think the level of participation in winter sports is low given the number of boys at the school. I reckon that only half of the school is active in winter sports.
6) A lack of understanding how professional school boy rugby has become. I don’t think the teachers and team coaches understand how difficult it is for a team to play against schools who have more than one third of the team recruited or on sports bursaries. I have watched all age levels this year and it is evident that Boys High lack the basic rugby skills that top level players would bring. I can’t remember when last Boys High had a certainty for a Craven Week spot.
7) Feeder schools who play soccer as a main sport. If you watch the Boys High u14 teams, you can see how few of them have played rugby at primary school. It takes them a season to two to adjust to understanding the game.
The last time I can say I watched a really good Boys High team was in 2007/ 2008. 2013 wasn’t bad but still couldn’t cope with the top 10 teams.
I know there is a belief that sport and results run in cycles but Boys High are taking too few steps to mitigate against the cycles. I feel desperately for the new director as I think he did not realize the extent of the problem and the limited resources he had to deal with.
@MikeSt: Oakdale gaan verseker ook sy kant bring tussen die groot skole
Let us not kid ourselves. Rankings ( and there are several for a reason) are observed by the boys and parents and therefore schools would be lying if they said they did not keep an eye on them. Whether it dictates playing schedules is a whole different ball game though. The problem I have got is that in most instances context is lost. Let us use Westville(48) and House(7) as an example. According to the Saschoolsports website Westville have played 15 games( the most with DHS). House have played 5 ( 33.33%). Westville have played 13% of games at home. House 40%. The highest ranked opponent for House is GW at 43. Westville have played SACS( 14) and won, Affies(15), Dale(16), KES(24) and College(31). They are honestly not on the same page from a context perspective. The issue with number of games played is what I call attrition. Westville in last 10 days has played Affies , Parktown and KES. In all games Westville was either significantly( 30 points v Parktown) or level (Affies and KES 2 points up) at halftime only to fall away in the later part of the game. 23 points to Parktown, 12 points to KES and 19 points in the last quarter to Affies. Altitude might have had something to do with it but certainly attrition was a factor. In the game against KES with 3 front line locks down, the 2nd team 8th man carrying some niggles had to fill in and when he went off injured Westville had a hooker playing flank. Imagine if House lost 3 locks how competitive they would be. Attrition is not a well used word on Meadows.
This context is lost in translation in formula driven rankings. To me it is all about balance. The priority given to rankings and the schedules the boys are exposed to in a season.
@Rugbyman: Ek praat van Menlopark.
@Cappie: Klein korreksie… Garsfontein het 4 uit 9 gewen en NIE 1 uit 9 nie…
@Tang: Yeah Tang, I was kind of hoping the school’s opposed to it would take the lead in that regard.
I’m quite sure that if a workable framework was introduced, all schools would comply.
Surprisingly things have not worked out that well for the schools that are known to be particularly aggressive in the post Grade 8 recruitment market.
@dirk: Dis soos Mike sê, klein skole soos Marlow, wil ook kompeteer vir die top spot, en hulle kan op ‘n goeie jaar, en met die stelsel wat jy voorstel sal hulle nie in berekening kan kom nie.
Om die ideale formule te kry gaan nog so tydjie vat, maar ek dink BooishaaiPa is op koers om dit te ontwikkel. Die beste rankingsisteem in die land, is die een waarmee meeste mense kan saamstem en assosieer. Verdermeer is dit nou eers helfte in die seisoen in, en hoe meer data daar is hoe beter sal dit regkom.
Almal weet Garsfontein en Menlopark (alhoewel hulle net 1uit 8 of 9 gewen het) behoort in die top 50. Daar is nog ‘n hele klompie wedstryde om dit reg te stel, veral vir Garsfontein. Oor Menlo is ek bietjie bekommerd, want ek dink daai manne se gemoedere lê in hulle sokkies, want hulle word elke keer huis toe gestuur met die kous oor die kop, en met menigte loesing met minder as 10 punte.
@Tang: You should start focussing on you schools performances. What is going on there? When last did PBH loose 59-0? I hope they will come right soon, because Pretoria needs a strong Pretoria Boys High.
@dirk: Dont think nrs should play a role. You get a lot of schools punching above their weight and playing against massive schools.
EGJ would love to be rated among Groot skole
@dirk: Dont think nrs should play a role. You get a lot of schools punching above their weight and playing against massive schools.
EGJ would love to be rated amongst Groot skole
@beet I notice rankings running full steam ahead but no more progress on the scorecard related to recruiting, etc.
@dirk: Jy bedoel seker Boland Landbou sal benadeel word ?
ek dink daar moet gekyk word na hoe groot die skole is .(seuns)bv
superskole 800+seuns(5)
makroskole500+seuns(4.5)
grootskole400+seuns(4)
mediumskole300+seuns(3)
kleinskole200+seun(2)
skole soos Boland Landbou en Helpmekaar sal ongelukkig bevoordeel word en dan is dit ook moeilik om die regte getalle te bekom.
@Grasshopper: Really immaterial if they play or not.
Its just not justifiable and / or fair to other big schools like Affies, PBH, Paul Roos etc.
@beet: Not to expand on the schools gradings to much, however I would like to know what was the grading used for Louis Botha vs SARU, seeing that SARU beat the firts mentioned quit comfartably.
@Grasshopper: Lots of second, third and downwards teams are playing 1st teams. Last week Affies 9th team played against Joost’s old schools first team. The 10th’s played against FH Odendaal’s second. Affies 3rd team played against Oos Moot’s 1st, and the 5th against Tuine’s 1st. The 3rd and 4th teams played against the likes of Kroonstad 1st during a holiday festival. It is no big deal.
@MikeSt: I think it’s because the Cherries play quite a few 1st teams so they are considered…
@Rugbyman: Stem 100% saam met jou. Jy kan nie skole in verskillende ligas veral die kleiner ligas op dieselfde log as n Makro / Tradisionele skool hou nie.
Garsfontein would beat most possibly 40 of the teams above them on the ranking as non of those teams has played the opposition they have win or lose. Then they would rather be nr 20 in a apple vs apple log.
Its just not comparing apples with apples.
I would rather be nr 20 in a split ranking system against schools that’s on the same level than Nr 10 on a overall system.
The schools should be measured against the opponents they play and then ranked accordingly.
Then I think its rubbish that the Cherries is included in the ranking system. They are a 2nd team and should be treated as a 2nd team like all of the rest. Or is the exception made because its GCB.
@beet: and i dont doubt that boishaaipa has the best of intentions, but it is just not that accurate once you move into the 20s to 50s category…
@beet: Still… logically it is flawed in a way…
@Rugbyman: I suppose you haven’t invested in the stock market analysis software that will make you millions overnight. I’m always intrigued by the salesman in his Datsun 140y who arrives, white socks, trousers half-mast, short sleeve shirt, skinny tie, waxing lyrical about the mysteries and omnipotent successes of his software that will change your life overnight (not sure why he’s selling software and not trading billions for his own account), moving averages, stochastics, momentum, butter boom butter bing abracadabra en sien daar – or whatever. You know it’s a good attempt but all a crock of shit.
@Pinotage: perhaps the BHP rankings should take into account the results achieved by teams that play the Cherries but just don’t rank the Cherries???
@Rugbyman: I hear what you are saying. This is the same rating system that made Garsies a Top 3 team last year.
One of the proposals discussed was should there be rankings leagues.
So a school like Garsies would be in the premier league rankings while Volkskool Heidelberg and Alberton etc would be in a lower league?
It basically means that you get measured against teams of similar strength who generally play annual fixtures against schools that fall into the same strength category
@Cappie: @Cappie:
Too good.
It’s BHP that does all the hard work. I just help give him the headaches via a we have to please all of the people all of the time approach.
But I must say it’s nice to run these ideas by BHP because he is open to suggestions and his work is transparent.
@BoishaaiPa: Die stelsel kan in teorie tot gevolg he dat Grey Cherries wat nou 13de plek beklee, bo Grey 1, nou 5de ,eindig. Dit sal n k..spul afgee. Amper soos laasjaar met die T20 krieket toe Grey 1 teen Grey2 moes speel om die Vrystaat se wenners te bepaal. Daar was so n effense benoudheid.
Say what you like about the ratings, logically a few things just dont make sense… for instance, garsies are not even in the top 50, beat marais viljoen by 50 who is in the top 50… I would bet my house that glennwood, garsfontein or waterkloof will will beat heidelberg volkskool or alberton by 70 or even 80 points who are rated in the mid 30s…
But hey, thats just logic… who would ever apply that…?
@BoishaaiPa: en meneer kan nou maar sê wat jy wil… iets maak nie logies sin nie…
@Cappie: Die skole is juis gekatgoriseer volgens hulle prestasies en rankings die laaste 3 jaar…Die top 20 is almal kategorie 5….Dan volg n groep van Kat 4.5 dan 4 dan 3.5 ens….Ek sal dit verskaf maar ek is wragtig nie weer lus om n ellelange gesprek oor die kategorisering uit te lok nie. Hierdie is die een stelsel wat die werking verduidelik. Ons kan nie almal die heeltyd tevrde stel nie maar probeer om n logiese uiteensetting van hoe ons te werk gaan te verklaar. Daar is altyd manne met beter idees en kritiek…al wat ek se is bring die beter idees en formules en verskaf die resultate. Dan kan ons mos vergelyk watter stelsel maak meer sin Ons almal wat SBR volg het min of meer n redelike goeie gevoel van waar spanne moet wees. Die sisteem wat almal min of meer laat saamstem is waarskynlik die mees akkurate een.Solank alle uitslae met presies dieslfde kriteria en formules bereken word sal jy n konstante resultaat kry en alle spanne word op dieslfde manier beoordeel.
@Cappie: Om myself in die rede te val, hiermee ‘n artikel wat die IRB stelsel afskiet!
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/IRB-rankings-make-little-sense-20141008
Sal mens ooit weet wat die beste stelsel is? Beet ek dink jy en Boishaaipa doen goed. Julle stelsel sal nog verbeter met tyd, dis verseker. Julle is al klaar besig met nuwe idees. Great!
@beet: We are pretty much on our way to develop something in line with the IRB ranks ng system. I understand that you want to start all over each year, but it would not influence the end result of a team to much at the end of the year. It would evolved to sort itself out. A team like Garsfontein would then not simply dissapear from the system due to a series of losses in the beginning of the year, but they will gradually fall down, until such time that they can pick up again should they start winning again. Attached is an explaination of the IRB ranking system. The superrugby teams are also ranked according to this, and the results are not necessary the same as their position on the log.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Rugby_Rankings
@Oakdale supporter: Verlede jaar was daar so gestry oor die katergorieë dat ek dink hulle hou dit aspris geheim hierdie jaar.
Ek het al ‘n paar keer gevra, maar sonder sukses. Waar kan ons sien watter ratings tans vir watter skole gebruik word.
@beet: I completely agree that the classifications need constant attention, but in my humble opinion gaining more points for beating better sides is what makes this ranking system the most accurate one around.
I also agree that teams like EG Jansen should be rewarded for coming close to beating Grey. However, at the end of the day the teams that win are the ones that deserve to be rewarded. I don’t think we can allow the system to get to a stage where losing to PRG give the losing side more reward than beating a school like SACS, who are sitting on a classification of 3 and have already beaten Affies, Dale and Boland Landbou this year.
I hope that makes a little sense?
@beet: This is exactly the reason why I suggest the IRB system. Historical performance dictates the categories and not beforehand gut feel of an individual or a group of gut feelers for that matter.
Further more, you would be constantly ranked in accordance to your present perfomances against all others based on present performances.
@Cappie: Cappie the problem with that is that in SBR every season involves different player personnel.
Affies were not a cat. 5 team last year but how unfair would it be to downgrade this year’s team based on last year’s achievements.
The same with Garsies. Last year they were very much a cat.5 team. This year a good debate would be to decide if they are a cat.4.5 or a cat.4 team
@beet: Sorry just to conclude what I am saying, I really think the new system is better.
The one area that needs constant monitoring though are the school classifications which are referred to as category points.
The inconsistent results achieved by the schools in the middle of the ranks are what contribute to some of them appearing to underachieve while others look like overachievers. For example Menlo losing badly to Diamantveld (with depth circumstances attached) and then almost beating Boland Landbou. How does one equate those 2 results relative to all the other schools. The same can be said of Glenwood. Losing to 2 schools outside the Top 50 and then recording a win against Noord-Kaap
@beet: Why don’t we use the formula used by the IRB. It would mean that you carry your rating of the previous year over to the next, and no one has to guess (and in a certain way, somehow be able to manupilate) the ratings and therefor positions? You would then be as good as your last games, and only gets points you play against stronger teams. A game like Affies played on saturday would then not have a negative influence on their rankings, even if they win by 50 points, but it would be of nil value.
@beet: We can only hope that he helps you out.
@Stripes: the second ranking more or less takes those factors into account.
I believe the formula challenges lie in 3 area:
1. Most crucially – the subjective classifications of schools as this more than anything else seems to determine where a school is ranked
eg Grey College, HJS, PRG, Gim, Affies, Monnas most definitely = 5 but are schools like Michaelhouse, Menlopark, Garsfontein = 4 or 4.5???
2. When a high classification school plays a weaker school eg MHS vs St Stithians, what points should the strong school obtain? In this case MHS received 2.50 for winning 51-3. You’ll see that 2.50 is well below the current avg of 3.70 achieved by MHS. For achieving the desired scoreline, they deserve more. The same goes for Affies who are adversely affected by essentially thumping Wildeklawer SARU by 50 points.
3. When a school loses to an opponent by a small margin.
Taking EG Jansen as the example here. They lost 2 games they could quite easily have won – HJS 14-19 and Grey College 17-19 (scoring more tries than their opponents in both as well). Given how close those results were, how many points should EG get out of the matches? On the old system EG would have received 2 points per loss, yet those defeats should be worth more than say MHS beating Helpmekaar, for which MHS received 4.50 which is more that double what EG got in 2 down to the wire top matches.
Whilst I am happy with the current rankings also for obvious reasons I think a system that takes into consideration points difference and who the opposition is or who a team plays would be a far fairer reflection of the real rankings!
I like both!
The 2nd one looks better and more accurate :-)
I think I like the second one for obvious reasons!
@BoishaaiPa: I have been a big fan of the old rankings and therefore only take interest in this ranking when looking at a true reflection of strength in schools rugby.
I’m interested to see if the new system improves, or moves further away from an ideal ranking. Can you please describe how the new rankings differs from the old one, with an example so that the rest of us can get a feel of the reward a team might get from loosing narrowly or by a big margin in both the new and old systems?
Thank you in advance
Good to see Glenwood out of the 30’s & now in the low 20’s
Some local games coming up so hopefully they will be back in the top 20
@Cappie: Net games teen 1ste spanne tel…So vroeg in die seisoen tel 4 games of meer vir n ranking..later sal die minimum aantal games 10 wees…Dan kwalifiseer hulle dalk nie meer nie.
We will be running the two different rankings concurrently over the next few weeks to get a better feel of how it is developing and with input from all the bloggers we will be able to judge which one is a more accurate representation. No one formula is perfect and will provide the ultimate solution, but one might satisfy the majority if used consistently throughout. I have a gut feel that the new one with sliding scale for close losses is perhaps a better reflection at this stage. One must also remember that rankings is not a reflection of who is the strongest, but who is consistently doing the best “against the opposition they are playing”…and thus ranked in such a manner.
@Cappie: @beet: ek dog dis ‘n ranglys vir eerste spanne?
@beet: Ek sien julle het Grey se Cherries daar op die ranglys. Hoe gaan julle hulle evalueer teen die ander tradisionele skole se 2de spanne?
@jakes: I must say I also like the idea that level of competitiveness in matches plays a bigger role for the losing team. It’s one thing to play say Grey College but if a school loses to them by a small margin it should count for a lot more than getting whipped by them.
So a school like EG gets a far greater reward for results like 17-15 vs GCB and 19-14 vs HJS.
Dink darem ook die scoring sisteem is baie naby aan die waarheid. Daar sal mos nou maar nog ‘n hele paar veranderinge wees sodra die manne hulle tradisionele (nie toernooie) wedstryde teen die ander spanne speel
Must say the new formula is much more spot on..the following schools are so close anyone can win on the day and should be in top 10 according to results up to now – No particular order but Alphabetical.. Affies, EG Jansen, Grey College, Monument, Outeniqua, Paarl Boys, Paarl Gym, and Paul Roos. Nelspruit against Monument and EG Jansen against Garsfontein this weekend should give an idea where Nellies and Garsies stand. I do not know too much about Oakdale and Bishops results but seems like they also up there with the top 10 contention.
@CharlesZA: Hi Charles. I definitely plan to do that later today.
There will however be a number of teams that won’t have links as I don’t track their results, so perhaps as part of the exercise I can persuade BHP to help me out with these results.
Beet can you perhaps link up the teams with their results as on previous rankings.
Also have to question Worcester Gim 13 spots ahead of Stellenberg. Seems playing against good teams means more than winning. So will probably have to wait and see once we have played against Outeniqua, SACS and the rest.
Who has Durbanville played against this year so far?
Maybe add the number of games played and wins and losses might help to spot something odd.
I find it difficult to fathom that the formula puts Glenwood down at 43 after beating Noord Kaap (17th) and College (33rd). Maybe it starts to balance out as more games are played. Never even heard of Oos-Moot. Good fun rankings though..