The website Businesstech recently published its list of the most expensive private schools in SA. You can check it out with pictures of the different schools that made the list here: http://businesstech.co.za/news/general/70063/most-expensive-schools-in-south-africa/
SA’s most expensive private schools (Above R140,000)
| # | School | Annual Fee (Boarding) | Annual Fee (Day) | Entry Fee | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Hilton College | KwaZulu-Natal | R 209,000 | N/A | R 52,250 |
| 2 | MichaelHouse | KwaZulu-Natal | R 192,000 | N/A | R 24,000 |
| 3 | St Andrews | Eastern Cape | R 182,700 | R 81,600 | R 15,225 |
| 4 | Kearsney College | KwaZulu-Natal | R 181,350 | R 124,800 | R 17,400 |
| 5 | Roedean School for Girls | Gauteng | R 181,140 | R 99,234 | – |
| 6 | St Alban’s College | Gauteng | R 181,000 | R 102,900 | R 55,000 |
| 7 | St John’s | Gauteng | R 178,523 | R 105,760 | R61,348* |
| 8 | St Andrews School for Girls | Gauteng | R 174,860 | R 94,380 | – |
| 9 | Bishops | Western Cape | R 168,140 | R 96,360 | R 20,000 |
| 10 | Somerset College | Western Cape | R 167,736 | R 89,904 | R 22,000 |
| 11 | St Stithians | Gauteng | R 166,691 | R 96,119 | R 10,000 |
| 12 | St Mary’s School for Girls | Gauteng | R 166,155 | R 90,630 | – |
| 13 | Kingswood College | Eastern Cape | R 158,355 | R 82,920 | R 10,700 |
| 14 | Diocesan School for Girls | Eastern Cape | R 157,590 | R 82,320 | R 35,200 |
| 15 | Herschel Girls’ School | Western Cape | R 157,560 | R 78,960 | R 10,000 |
| 16 | The Wykeham Collegiate | KwaZulu-Natal | R 154,820 | R 83,500 | R 4,000 |
| 17 | St Cyprians | Western Cape | R 148,560 | R 76,560 | R 7,500 |
| 18 | St Anne’s School for Girls | KwaZulu-Natal | R 146,200 | R 80,000 | R 34,000 |
| 19 | Treverton College | KwaZulu-Natal | R 142,400 | R 69,600 | R 5,000 |
•Hilton College in die KwaZulu-Natalse middellande: R219 500
•St. Andrew’s College in Grahamstad, Oos-Kaap: R199 140
•Michael House in die KwaZulu-Natalse middellande: R199 000
•Kearsney College in Botha’s Hill, KwaZulu-Natal: R181 350
•Roedean School for Girls in Johannesburg: R181 140
•St. Alban’s College in Lynnwood, Pretoria: R181 000
•St. John’s in Johannesburg: R178 523
•St. Andrew’s School for Girls in Johannesburg: R174 860
•St. Mary’s School for Girls in Waverley, Johannesburg: R173 700
•Somerset College in Somerset-Wes in die Wes-Kaap: R167 736
Daarteenoor betaal ouers by die spog Afrikaanse of dubbelmedium privaat en openbare skole heelwat minder, en kan dikwels ook nog kwalifiseer vir ‘n korting:
•Afrikaanse Hoër Meisieskool in Pretoria: R26 950 per kind per jaar en R26 400 aan jaarlikes koshuisfooie.
•Afrikaanse Hoër Seunskool in Pretoria: R29 400 per kind per jaar en R28 620 aan jaarlikse koshuisfooie.
•Helpmekaar Kollege, ʼn privaatskool in Johannesburg, sal jou R57 200 per jaar aan skoolgelde kos en die koshuisfooi beloop tans R30 580 per jaar.
•Curro Hazeldean, nog ʼn privaatskool in Pretoria se Silver Lakes-omgewing se skoolgelde beloop tans R43 380 per jaar vir leerlinge in graad 8 en 9 en ouers van graad 10 tot 12-leerlinge sal R53 760 per jaar moet betaal.
•Hoërskool Paarl Gimnasium in die Paarl se skoolgelde kos tans R21 900 per kind per jaar.
•Paul Roos Gimnasium, ook in Stellenbosch vra ouers R25 750 aan skoolgelde per jaar en ongeveer R33 700 per jaar aan koshuisfooi, afhangende of jy wasgoed by die koshuis wil laat was.
•Hoër Meisieskool Paarl se skoolgelde is R20 770 per kind per jaar.
•Grey kollege, ʼn dubbelmedium seunskool in Bloemfontein, wat ook in 2013 as die beste hoërskool aangewys in The African Economist se lys van die honderd beste hoërskole in Afrika, se skoolgelde beloop tans is R19 300 per jaar vir ʼn graad 8-leerling en ouers van graad 9 tot 12-leerlinge sal R18 600 per kind betaal. Koshuisfooie beloop tans R24 810 per jaar.
http://maroelamedia.co.za/blog/nuus/suid-afrika/duurste-skole-in-suid-afrika/
@Rugger fan: Dis reg ja, Boishaai is gewoonlik so tussen Gim en PRG. RBHS se fooie is R 68700 pj. Dink WBHS en Sacs sal ook in daai omgewing wees.
@Cappie: @Cappie: Of as daar nie dringend ingegryp word nie, soos die Cheetahs. Die Woord se dat die lewe soos n wasem is. Vir n jong kind wie deur sy skoollewe stry en dit soos n ewigheid voel, maak dit absoluut geen sin nie. Maar jy bereik n punt in die lewe waar dit absoluut sin maak en besef jou tyd loop uit. Ek kan 40 jaar terug dink en ek onthou hoe ons om n tafel gesit het, met wie, en watter wyshede ons kwytgeraak het, wat ons gedrink het (Dit was Tassies, nie dat dit op Stellenbosch veel verbeelding of geheue verg nie) en watter oplossings ons vir die wereldse probleme gehad het. Dus, water onder die brug, is iets wat NOOIT herwin kan word nie. Benut elke oomblik wat jy gegun word, veral teenoor jou familie.
@BOG: Werk Oom Bog iewers nagskof, of kry Oom nie geslaap nie?
@BOG: dink Oom dat tyd besig is om eksponensieël vinniger verby te gaan? Dit voel nie vir my soos ‘n lynregte grafiek nie. Die tyd tussen 7h00 en 14h00 op skool het baie stadiger verbygegaan as die tyd tussen 7h00 en 14h00 op ‘n Saterdagoggend nou. Dit voel vir my asof tyd wat mens mors, nie gemorste tyd is nie. Ek wonder wat gaan met Oscar gebeur?
Ons rand is besig om dieselfde patroon te volg as die EP Kings.
@Cappie: Dit is wat ek probeer se het. Ook die tye wat ons wakker is en die tye wat ons slaap. Dit verander ook met ouderdom- soos jy kan sien.
@BOG: spot on Oom Bog, my Pa is nie 12 jaar ouer as ek nie, maar dalk so 12 ouer as Oom as ek so na die skaappryse kyk.
@Maroon: Dit was lank na daardie datum, waarna ek verwys- die vroee 80s.In die vroee 90s was die R/$ wisselkoers rondom $1= R2.50. Voor dit, was daar darem die “Finansiele Rand” waarmee jy kon bele in SA ( voordelige wisselkoers), maar as ek reg kan onthou, nie opbrengste kon repatrieer nie.
@BOG: Moet darem noem dat die wisselkoerse daardie tyd bepaal is deur die Bretton Woods stelsel en grootliks afhanklik was van hoe groot ‘n land se goudreserwes was. In ons (SA) se geval het dit ons baie bevoordeel. Was geldig tot 1972.
@Cappie: Net nog n waarneming- ek dink nie jou pa is 12 jaar ouer as jy nie. Nog een- jy het R1,69 betaal vir een STERK Britse pond en $1,40 gekry (weer n STERK ) vir 1 Rand (R was sterker) Vandag amper R18 vir n swak pond en R11 vir n swak $
In 1984 het ‘n skaap R80 gekos, terwyl dit nou R1800 is. Dit is ongeveer 22 keer duurder, Skoolgeld was toe R75 per jaar, terwyl dit nou ongeveer R20,000 per jaar is, dus 260 keer meer. Skoolgeld het dus 10 keer duurder geword as vleis die afgelope 30 jaar. My storie is dus, hou op leer en eet vleis.
@BOG: Dan is jy amper so oud soos my Pa. Hy het R6 vir ‘n skaap betaal toe hy net begin werk het.
@Cappie: +- Een-en-n-half dekades voor jou.Tou my ouer suster vir haat kleinkind n LP plaat wys, was haar reaksie ” Wow, thats a big CD” @Rugger fan: We were raised on LM Radio on SW 49 or 55. The radio crackled like anything, but the atmosphere was great. You could sense LM as a holiday destination and the high light of the week, was the LM hit parade, Top 20 on Sunday evenings with David Davies. Other well known DJs were Evie Martin, Reg De Beer, Frank Saunders, Barry O Domhehue(?) Darryl Jooste— It was just great and a wonderful time to be young. Google ” LM Radio” you can either stream or catch it direct in some areas of SA. They play all the oldies- without the crackling sound. Getting too nostalgic and drawing a tear.
@BOG: Haha, ons het verlede naweek reunie gehou, en ek het gewonder wie is al die ou mense op die reunie. Watter jaar was jy matriek?
@BOG: Capital 604 begin ook volgende jaar blyklik?
En LM Radio- wat terloops weer op die lug is
@Cappie: Jy is nog n kind. As jy “Seasons in the Sun” van Terry Jacks, en “Johlene” van Dolly Parton en “The Troggs” onthou, dan is jy in my liga Dit het veral mooi geklink by daardie “Road House” in die Paarl, op die Stellenbosche pad. n Skaap het die aardse bedrag van R10 gekos en ek onthou van n familie wie van die kus die Kruger Wildtuin besoek het in n Kombi en vele draaie ook gery het, en nie minder as R68 aan brandstof bestee het nie. R4-50 om vol te maak. En jy moet veral nie vandag glo wat jy hoor nie, eintlik meer belangrik, nie dink dat wat jy wel hoor, al is wat plaasvind nie.
And Natal still had bumper stickers that said:
“Welcome to Durban ….. now go home” & “The Last Outpost”
Dankie – nostaligie soos Laurika gesing het….
Vir die wat in die tagtigs skool gegaan het – Hier is ‘n geredugeerde skrywe van my vriend Johan van Staden (hy is vandag ‘n predikant) waar ons in Lichtenburg in 1984 gematrikuleer het. Ek het sy storie bietjie veralgemeen, en die direkte goed wat van Lichtenburg van toepassing was uitgehaal. Menigte van julle op die blog mag dalk assosieer met dit wat hy hier noem.
“Wie onthou nog die sokkies in die stadsaal en garagepaarties op Kharma Chameleon, 99 Red Balloons, Der Kommisar, The Wild Boys, Jump, The Warrior, Love is a Stranger, footloose en I want to break free? Dit was die tyd van 7-singles, tape recorders en die morele paniek wat gesaai is deur sogenaamde “backward masking”. Terloops, my vriend het eenmaal Meat Loaf agteruit gespeel en was oortuig hy hoor “daar’s ’n stryd te stry daar’s werk”. Lichtenburg se leuse. Vandag vermoed hy dit was dalk net sy verbeelding…
Dalk onthou jy nog David Gresham se laatnag top-20, vroegoggend sportbusse, PacMan, Donkey Kong, VHS en Beta, Soncor, Timex, Fizz Pops, Wilson toffees en Grasshoppers. Transvaal, Stellaland, Radio 5, Republiekdag, Krugerdag, die Langrish Hotel, Volkskas, Trust Bank en inryteaters en elke dorp het ‘n padkamp gehad – armed response, VIGS, aardverwarming en Miley Cyrus nog nie. Riaan Cruywagen was toe-al ’n ou-bekende op TV! Die koöperasie se nuwe (verbeterde!) rekenaar se 2 megabyte hardeskyf het ’n hele vertrek volgestaan. Jou kitskoskeuses was beperk tot slaptjips, russians en meatpies en partykeer was daar prentjies aan die binnekant van koeldrankdoppies.
Dit was ’n tyd toe mense gedink het jy kan vinnig ryk word deur vrot melk uit te droog en vir ’n ou te stuur wat iewers in die Karoo of Namakwaland gebly het. Jy kon sowaar daai tyd nog tot by iemand se voordeur stap en die klokkie lui of klop! In huise het telefone hulle eie bankies gehad, nooit ver van die Tretchikoff-afdruk nie. Net ghrênd mense se telefone het knoppies (in plaas van so ’n ronde dial) gehad – maar hulle moes in elk geval ook by die huis bly as hulle gebel wou word! Tiekiebokse was darem oral en is nogal dikwels gebruik, soms selfs om te bel…
Dit was die tyd van Jêmblikke-visblikke-drie-by-drie, deurnag baanmarathons, gratis Coke-promosiedae, lentelope, fire drills, D-dae met jou beret voor by jou hemp ingesteek want blykbaar was daar ’n tekort aan die goed en jy moes joune nie verloor nie, kadetkampe by die Kommandosaal met korporaals wat hulle verbeel hulle is generaals, ’n overdressed maar underrated matriekafskeid en ’n matriekeksamen in die skoolsaal.
Dit was ’n tyd toe die skoolbanke gate in gehad het (vir vergange se inkpotte), maar nie die paaie nie. Jy’t ook dikwels “status updates” op daai einste banke gesien. Ons het ’n voorligtingsperiode gehad elke week (of elke 6-dag siklus) maar niemand het eintlik geweet wat ons veronderstel was om daar te leer nie. Die kolekamer was net so ’n misterieuse plek waarrondom legendes gebou is, maar die verwarmers in die klaskamers was subliem. En hoe tydelik was daai “tydelike klasse” nou eintlik?
In Februarie 1984 kry ons toe ’n reuse skok: Die petrolprys styg tot 63 sent per liter! Ons word gewaarsku oor swaarder tye wat voorlê. Ou ooms en jong soldate het belowe om die Rooi en Swart gevaar van ons weg te hou – maar dan moet ons heeltyds weerbaar bly, ons groente opeet, wegbly van tattoos, nie kopbene op ons tasse teken nie en niks van breyten breytenbach lees of na Pink Floyd luister nie. Agv internasionale boikotte moes ons TV-reekse uit Oos-Duitsland (ai, die ironie…) invoer en oorklank – onthou julle nog vir Derrick? Die goewerment wou nie hê ons moes weet dat ’n biskop van die Kaap die Nobelprys vir Vrede in 1984 gewen het nie. Ons is darem toegelaat om te weet dat Lorna Potgieter Mej SA was, dat Bruce Fordyce die Comrades gewen het en dat WP vir Natal geklop het om die Curriebeker te wen. Vir alternatiewe pret is mense buiteland toe – Bophuthatswana was net 50 km ver van ons skool.
Ons het intussen geleer om nie als te glo wat jy hoor of lees nie – wel, eintlik leer ons nog steeds. Hy sê hy het regtig tot onlangs nog vas geglo dat Tintin in Tibet die enigste boek is waarin Tintin ooit gehuil het (Gert het dan so gesê) maar helaas, dis toe nie heeltemal waar nie… So het die sekerhede gekom en gegaan. Idealisme het plek gemaak vir realisme, en dit was ook okay – “we had seasons in the sun”. Sommige superheroes het ongelukkig voete van klei gehad – en ander het ons weer verbaas en verras. Van party klasmaats moes ons veels te vroeg afskeid neem. Ons het geleer dat goeie tye kom en gaan – maar so ook slegte tye. Dalk lê die beste nie agter ons nie maar voor ons.
Maar die wêreld was jonk en mooi en groot en alles was veel eenvoudiger toe ons nog al die antwoorde gehad het en Stach nog Koning van Katoren was…”
O ja, en ons skoolfonds was R75 per jaar daai tyd!
@BOG: Boet, I have seen them, I kept looking for the hidden camera. And no, can’t see College ever subscribing, although they did wear them for the 2013 reenactment of the 1870 rugby match against Hermannsberg.
@Gungets Tuft: You mean to tell me that you have not seen those, either long shorts or short longs in Pretoria and in the WC? I naturally assumed that it was some form of punishment, but going by what Cappie said, this is not so. I can guarantee you, that you would not ever get a MC boy into those even with a 5 yrs Sharks contract, as reward.
@BOG: Luckily in Affies they are allowed to wear short shorts, and they do not have to have their jackets on at all times. Tie, however is not negotiable.
@Gungets Tuft: Haha, I think Bog means the entire school has to wear it.
@BOG: That’s unconstitutional, there was a case recently. Kids cannot be victimised for their parents lack of ability to pay, not at a government school anyway. Kids in the boarding establishment is different, there they can be asked to vacate immediately. That’s the theory anyway. And all money coming in gets allocated to school fees first, then BE, sports tours etc.
@Cappie: LOL!!
Verskil van plus minus $117000 (een miljoen plus randjies) tussen Affies en Le Rosey per jaar… En dan is Affies na alle waarskynlikheid nog n beter skool ook. Wonder wat kry hul by vir die ekstra miljoen per jaar? 
And in some schools, the kids whose fathers do not pay school fees, are forced to wear long bermuda type grey shorts with their school jackets and tie. I cannot imagine a worse punishment.
@Rugger fan: Herewith the 10 most expensive schools based on 2014 figures:
1. Institut Le Rosey $120.000
2. Collège Alpin Beau Soleil $115.000
3. Institut auf dem Rosenberg $94,200
4. Aiglon College $91,575
5. Lyceum Alpinum Zuoz $83,389
6. Leysin American School $80,789
7. St George’s School in Switzerland $80,526
8. The American School In Switzerland $76,277
9. Brillantmont International School $67,991
10. Afrikaanse Hoër Seunskool $2,395
The good thing about the KZN schools is that all fixtures (e.g. Grey Bloem; PBHS; Saints tournaments; Wildeklawer; KERF etc.) are all included.
@Rugger fan: Waterkloof might sound to be on the favourable bracket, however that is only the basic fee. For everything that you participate in you pay in addition, which brings them in line with the other schools of comparable appearances.
http://www.klofies.co.za/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=116&Itemid=103
@Cappie: Hear hear Ou Cappie!
Also 2013 vintage:
King Edward School R30 500
Camps Bay High R24 250 –
Hoërskool Waterkloof R19 810
Bryanston High R22 615
Fourways High R22 450
Westerford High R25 020
Wynberg Girls High R23 650
Pinelands High R20 223
Rustenburg High R27 000
Greenside High R23 800
Source:
http://www.moneyweb.co.za/moneyweb-south-africa/the-costly-choice-between-public-and-private-schoo
Another report (2013 vintage) but gives good insight too:
http://www.hsharties.co.za/pdf/fairlady_final.pdf
Affies – ZAR24,000
Greenside (GAU) – ZAR24,000
Hillcrest High (KZN) – ZAR21,640
Rondebosch (WC) – ZAR32,000
@tzavosky: Dankie tzavosky – baie interesant – maar dit lyk meer en meer dat daar 3 lae skoolfoeie is landswyd
ZAR50,000 – the private schools (with the likes of CURRO, Trinity, Crawford etc. hitting the lower edge of this too
these generally exclude boarding schools which are also bouncing around a lot.
@Rugger fan: An article that appeared in Rapport past Sunday should give you some idea:
http://www.netwerk24.com/nuus/2014-10-12-skoolgeld-ouers-trek-noustrop
Paarlbok mentioned these a while back:
Fooie hier in die Boland, Koshuis ingesluit
PRG R55,250
Landbou R37,860
Paarl Gim R47,600
@BoishaaiPa: My daughter is going to Menlo Park next year, and I was looking at what the school fees would be. I found an article where they said that the entire school fee income for Menlo Park in 1980 was R24k, which was much more than the R15k of 1979.
What we paid for the entire school of 1500 pupils 34 years ago, is one pupils present annual fee.
@Rugger fan: In 2011 I paid R35k per annum for school (R12k) and Hostel (R23k) at Paarl Boys…probably around R40k a year now…Also a bargain compared to some other fees!.
@Roger:
So Roger – that puts KES around the same as the KZN government schools regarding pricing. Hopefully there is a PBHS / Monnas / HTS Middelburg etc. type input too?
On the subject of private schools and their relative costs here is an article comparing what are considered to two most academically effective schooling systems in the world. Finland and South Korea, and their differences. Finland has no private schools and pre schools and College are free. They certainly do things very differently to South Korea, for eg, but one feature common to both is the high academic standards and social standing of their teachers
http://goldstocksforex.com/2014/10/13/finland-proves-the-education-lie/
On a lighter note OB’s of the second most expensive school in SA scored IMO the two outstanding individual tries of the weekend’s Currie Cup action.
Ruan Combrinck (’07-’08) for the Lions against the Cheetahs and Pat Howard (’08,’09,’10) for WP against the Sharks to say nothing of Pat Lambie’s (’07-’08) contributions against Oz and NZ in recent weeks. Should the Currie Cup final contestants go with the home seedings in the semis then there could be between 6 and 8 MHS OB’s involved in the final across both teams.
@Rugger fan: KES is R33,350 for tuition and an additional R39,500 for weekly boarding and R45,500 for termly boarding.
A termly boarder therefore pays R79k per annum. That is still R15-R20k per annum less than a day scholar at St Johns or St Stithians.
Good value for money
O ja, en Bloemfontein is vir die laaste 5 jaar, oop op Sondae
@Cappie: Dit is van te veel braai dat ons in die stront is. As much as I like the odd political discussion, this particular one began with a derogatory remark about Bloem- it was later denied. Ironically, I only went to school in Bloem, many years ago, maar pasop wat jy van die plek se
You can always send your kids to one of these schools:
1. Institut Le Rosey, Rolle, Switzerland – $99,566 per year
2. College Alpin International Beau Soleil, Villars-sur-Ollon, Switzerland – $93,158 per year
3. St. Albans School, Washington D.C. – $54,151 per year
4. Woodside Priory School, Portola Valley, California – $53,925 per year
5. Appleby College, Oakville, Ontario – $53,911 per year
6. Idyllwild Arts Academy, Idyllwild, California – $53,600 per year
7. Dana Hall School, Wellesley, Massachusetts – $53,211 per year
8. Salisbury School, Salisbury, Connecticut – $53,015 per year
9. Sandy Spring Friends School, Sandy Spring, Maryland – $52,850 per year
10. Purnell School, Pottersville, New Jersey – $52,800 per year
@Playa: @Bog: Both of you made some remarkable observations, and it was interesting to have two different perspectives of where we are and where we are possibly going. Thanks for your contributions, and I mean it. No way that I was bored by that, and if at all don’t stop. Maybe it does not have to be to try and convince the other, but keep on giving perspective of perceived pragmatisms that we are sitting with.
Nou gaan ons braai!
To go back a few posts here – it is very interesting to see the prices for the “Govt” schools vs the Private schools.
Could someone with the inclination please post those in a table – I see we have GWD; MCollege; PRG; Boland; GCB mentioned here (day boy and boarding).
WBHS is around ZAR33k for the year (day boy only).
So it seems that Bloem is the cheapest – followed by WC and then KZN.
what about the E cape and Gauteng (Mannas, PBHS, Waterkloof etc.) – anyone have those?
@Gungets Tuft: There most certainly is! For most of our variety it lasts pretty much 12 months of the year!
@Greenwood: The “Beeld finaal 2014” (Nellies en Garsies) on Youtube makes for interesting viewing. Also the build up to the finals etc.
@All Black: Hummpff. What a nice world it would be if there was an off season for politicans as well …
@Playa: Off season is depressing enough.
@BOG: I did thanks – he’s not the only one highlighting the risks of a Chinese property bubble – property is a big deal in China accounting for around 10% of GDP which grew at 7.7% in 2013 – but there are some key differences to other property markets in;
– the level of gearing (30-60% equity down on property in China for first and second properties) is lower than the western norm,
– household debt to disposable income is still only about a third of that of the US.
Importantly, mortgage lending in China is all done by domestic institutions so there would be little knock on international effect as there was in 2007 with the collapse of the collateralised mortgage market in the US.
The Chinese banks would undoubtedly suffer but the banks are all state controlled and with a debt to GDP ratio of only around 15% the Chinese government has plenty of capacity to recapitalise them if necessary.
But at the end of the day hindsight will, as usual, be 20/20 so let’s watch this space with interest ;-)
Yup ! me too – missing Sbr the wife says I get withdrawal symptoms at this time of the year
I’ve got stacks of local schoolboy rugby videos – I think I should upload some clips on to youtube – mostly of Gwd though
there are plenty of schoolboy rugby videos on youtube right now – have a look ——
And for every accounting and mathematical problem, there seems to be ten possibilities. Even political science seems to have changed. At least I now understand why only 2 out of 182 local councils got a “qualified audit” ( clear??)@meadows: Google Jesse Columbo and see what he says about Chinas economy- you may find it interesting.
@All Black: @All Black: What would rugby be without politics?
@GreenBlooded: Peaceful but boring.
@All Black: Don’t you just love the off-season?
@BOG: China is a fascinating economy which has some unique features not least of which is the key driver of it’s economic growth. Like all economies capital accumulation is an important component of growth. The difference in China is that private sector consumption is a relatively small contributor largely because capital remains mostly in the hands of the state. The single biggest contributor to economic growth in China, according to the IMF, is the sustained increases in productivity brought about by economic reforms. China’s massive population, capacity for further reform and ongoing productivity increases, with consequent increases in the relatively low private sector consumption are features that set it apart, especially within a centrally controlled framework, The one advantage economically of an undemocratic society is the ability to make unpopular decisions if necessary to support the economy.
I think we need some rugby to discuss.
@BOG: Once again, I beg to differ. With Political Science as one of my majors, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that it is NOT an accurate science, and one nowhere near that of medical science. We can take this offline if you want reasons, I cannot bore the bloggers any more than I have already with my long blogs.
As for “one settler, one bullet”, “kill the boer”, “stolen land”, those are chants that have done the rounds for decades, long before I was born, and while you were still doing battle against the “old foe”, Queens College on the rugby field. From that point of view, I’d say SA has been on stage 6 since the 1960s, would you agree? Further to that, back then it was the majority of blacks who were on that tune, nowadays, once again thanks to tv and some melodramatic journalists, a chant made by a handful of people is made to look like a cry shared by most. Believe me when I tell you most of us darkies, rich and poor do not feel like that at all.
Lastly on the farm attacks. Coming from a farming community myself, I can tell you with full confidence that farm attacks are not a problem of the white farmer only. It is a pity that this tends to be categorised as a colour crime to satisfy some people’s paranoia. Let’s take this one offline as well, and I will provide you with names and numbers of black farmers stretching from Stutterheim, Berlin, Cathcart, Tarkastad, neighbouring East London and Queenstown who have lost lives, some survivors who opted out of farming as a result. Farm attacks are a violent crime, and farmers are an easy target because they are isolated. Majority of farmers are white, so expect them to be the biggest number affected.Of course, there are those which are racially motivated, I will not deny that. But racially motivated violent crimes are a two way street. I can provide you with plenty recent incidents in my offline thesis to you as well.
Let’s agree to disagree Oom Boggie. Let the future decide if you or I got it wrong.
@GreenBlooded: Just show the pressure hose to the flees and they abandon ship, and the dog gives himself a deep colonic out of sheer terror.
@Playa: All Im saying is that political science is almost as accurate as medical science, if correctly applied. We need not speculate. I think that you need to close your eyes, not to see the presence or strong possibility of genocide. The points which you raised, are SOME of the signs. Demonising a group, takes place at level 5- “One settler, one bullet ” ” stole the land” ect Ask the almost 80000 victims – 53% of whom were barbarically tortured and in many cases, nothing stolen. And with this, I conclude my discussion. We all have a choice- to evaluate the verifiable facts before us for an objective assessment or look the other way. Sadly, most prefer to look the other way.
@Grasshopper: I have a pressure cleaner. Put it too close to my foot once when cleaning the roof – the jet actually cut me!! Using those things on dogs is going to land your mate in trouble with the SPCA I would think…….
@BOG: For those not in the know this is stage 6:
6. PREPARATION: Victims are identified and separated out because of their ethnic or religious identity. Death lists are drawn up. Members of victim groups are forced to wear identifying symbols. Their property is expropriated. They are often segregated into ghettoes, deported into concentration camps, or confined to a famine-struck region and starved. At this stage, a Genocide Emergency must be declared. If the political will of the great powers, regional alliances, or the U.N. Security Council can be mobilized, armed international intervention should be prepared, or heavy assistance provided to the victim group to prepare for its self-defense. Otherwise, at least humanitarian assistance should be organized by the U.N. and private relief groups for the inevitable tide of refugees to come.
In my view, this is either gross exaggeration or I am totally blind to what is going on in the country I live in.
To me, predicting a political future is like pre-empting the stock market. There are many possibilities, and when you make a decision, you are 99% speculating. This is unlike a doctor diagnosing a terminal disease, where symptoms are pretty constant. When an error in diagnosis occurs it is more often than not the exception.
I am not saying you are wrong, because your gloomy picture of what lies ahead, is certainly a possibility. But there are others not as gloomy, and some which are prosperous. I choose to use India as a yardstick, you choose Zimbabwe. My choice of India is simply because there are far more reaching similarities between us and them. Liberation party, multi presidents, education deteriorating, corruption and lack of service delivery, splinter parties, opposition parties joining forces…and to me what happens from here is either the ANC will pull up their socks (ANC Gauteng wanting etolls out is a small example – but that could be an electioneering strategy I admit – and oh and I hear they are now going to start ‘deploying’ qualified professionals to manage municipalities ), or the opposition will finally appeal to the ‘masses’ and the ANC will be voted DEMOCRATICALLY out of power. This will not be a smooth ride at all…but civil war?Genocide?Extreme much I’d say.
Hey, neither of us have a crystal ball. We are neither amagqwirha (witches) or izangoma (traditional healers).
@Grasshopper: @Playa: You blokes must stop running with a story.When I suggested that you look at the debt clock, I did not, by any stretch of the imagination,suggest that the rest are debt free. The US, with $17 Trillion debt, will in 5 yrs, require two thirds of its current budget just to service its debt. But that is no consolation for SA, with all its additional problems- trying hard to catch up. You are overestimating the importance of BRICS, probably the most corrupt “club” in human history. India, Russia, Brazil are all showing serious signs of trouble. Then, China?? In 2007, when the world took a nosedive, China embarked on a drive, investing in infrastructure and wait for it, by BORROWING. The result is that today, there is an estimated 65 million empty apartments. And remember, what got the US into trouble, in the first place. No, China is going to give new meaning to the term “bubble bursting”And on top of it, they depend on the American consumer for their growth- the very consumer now in trouble. As far as crime is concerned, yet again, I keep to the FACTS. The SAPS figures say 47 murders pd and a rape every 4 minutes. Dr Gregory Stanton, of Genocide Watch, places SA on level 6 (of 8) I put the murder stats a little higher- between 50-60 pd, What I have tried to do here, is encourage you to make your own assessment and prognosis. Guessing, like the weather, economy and a medical condition, is not required. Clearly, I have failed in this attempt and I shall leave you to continue to speculate. All the indicators are there to see for those who are able to. Player, was your father “negative” when he diagnosed a terminal illness? Or was he realistic? I rest my case.
All Black
read you comments on Staff at College beating the 1st Cricket team last year
I watched the Glenwood staff beat Varsity College at Dixons about a month ago – The best part was the cheers from the Gwd boys when a teacher tackled or or got nailed – would have been more interesting had TK and Pinhead played !!!!
@BOG: I guess the US, Eurozone, Japan are all hunky dory debt free Disneylands?
Yes, I agree that SA’s debt is escalating, and it is alarming, and I too am concerned. But jeepers, this is not exclusive to SA. No that I think this makes it right before you jump the gun.It irritates me how people pin point problems experienced by the whole world and turn them into SA specific problems.Gang shooting in the Cape Flats – oh SA is ridden with gangs – I guess the US ghettos are littered with church groups called the Bloods and the Crips), we have a dumb president, wait, George Bush was just a misunderstood genius;a child gets kidnapped in Midrand – Joburg is the most dangerous city in the world all of a sudden – but you Magdelene who disappeared in Greece, just got lost on her way home and fell on a rock.
@BOG: There is a tendency of people with a negative outlook to call their view “realistic”. It boggles the mind. If we were to believe that, SA would have gone into civil war mode post 1994, there’d be no infrastructure, the rand would be worth half a Zim Dollar – this was the picture painted by the “realists” who opposed democracy, some of whom fled the country just after those elections.
To be brief, not that I support TRADITIONAL HEALERS (not witchdoctors – that is not what they are) getting honorary doctrines, but what if I may ask is a criteria for getting one? As far as I know it is merely a way of honouring a person’s contributions in a certain field or to society in general. It’s not an academic qualification. Do you know enough about TRADITIONAL HEALERS to hold an informed opinion of their contribution (or lack thereof) to medicine or botanical sciences?
My reason for not supporting that move is based on something that I know for sure. Being a TRADITIONAL HEALER is a calling which one should never get ‘rewarded’ for. Do I think they have contributed much in the field of medicine and science in general? Hell YEAH!
But I think you have confirmed that your thinking is typical of the overseas journalist in your view of SA and Africa in general. Just last year, The Economist carried a cover story “SOUTH AFRICA IS A BLOODBATH”, that issue was sold out before it even hit the stores. but I was left confused….where in SA is this blood bath exactly? I asked myself.
Hold your view Oom Boggie…but don’t try and elevate it to being ‘reality’.
@BOG: look at the US & UK debt clocks, in the trillions! SA has tons of investment from China, Brazil & Russia these are the future economic giants. The credit rating bureau’s are western-centric. Anyway, let’s agree to disagree. The political cronies need to find their lifestyles so won’t let the country go economically. I returned to see SA for myself rather than rely on other peoples opinions, been back 2 years and been pleasantly surprised! Crime is there, but there are so many opportunities if you use your brain a little. A mate of mine washes dogs in wealthy suburbs at R150 a dog. He has 5 vans with pressure hoses etc. he us turning over close to R100k a month, not bad for a novel idea where there is a need.
@BOG: I don’t think the advice has changed, my kids learned early on that a single basket for all the eggs is a bad idea. That’s what it is I think, on a slightly grander scale. The good thing about a wired world is I can have some of my eggs in a basket in Jersey and still have omelette in Durban, know what I mean. It’s not good for the country though, for my money to be invested elsewhere, but that’s the cost that the politicians have to count when they line up deals for arms, nuclear power stations, toll road management and fire pools.
@Gungets Tuft: Indeed, as I pointed out, Im here to the end, revolution or no revolution- unless one of my kids add a granny flat, for grandpa to their house. My only concern is giving the correct advice to the young because they have a choice- I dont.
@BOG: Our views of the future are not that far apart, my sole reason for bringing up and challenging specific examples is to combat false statements because I am opposed to alarmism, whether that be geopolitical danger, global warning, GMO foods, the dangers of nuclear power, fracking, whatever. People mean well but believe anything, and say anything, to support their stance. That’s not an accusation either, I don’t consider you an alarmist of the sweating trembling kind, but my OCD responds to anything I can’t verify.
To bastardise James Dean and Mahatma Ghandi, plan to live forever, live as if you will die tomorrow. I am way past the age that I can relocate and aim above cat food for dinner, but I am not sure my kids will live their lives out in South Africa, so what investments I have are structured to take that into account. If Playa is right, and I hope he is, then I will foreign currency in my dotage (well, I will anyway), if he’s wrong then my kids are going to have granny and grandpa staying over 6 months of the year, hopefully south of the thaw line in Canada.
Happy to drop the discussion here, I think we both understand each other.
@Gungets Tuft: Lets not argue about the entry requirements to a country like Canada. I worked in an environment where I dealt with those people regularly, but that was a while ago. Ironically, SA only admitted doctors from the UK, Ireland and strangely, Belgium, without restriction. The rest,(including the US) were all given restricted registration, meaning that they had to work under supervision for a period, before sitting an exam. Granted, in many cases it had to do with ethics , rather than standards.@Grasshopper: I know that the winters in Canada, are not too enticing for SAs, but if climate/weather was the only consideration, no one would ever leave SA. In fact, may I suggest Somalia as a cheaper alternative. Their whole coastline is undeveloped still and plots are free. But the people in Canada are so geared up for those conditions that it hardly effects them. And the summers are shorter but beautiful.And in conclusion, a person who gives an honest, well thought out opinion on the future of SA (or any other country), is not a” doomsdayer”- he is a realist. You speak of economic cycles.Come on- you studied economics. Im sure that by now, you have realized that what we are experiencing, is a lot more that just a “cycle”. Past sins- credit/debt- has caught up with us and we are yet to see the consequences. On that, Google ” South African debt clock” Its frightening.
@Grasshopper: Depends on what you are looking for. I have friends in Orillia and Uxbridge, Ontario, they would live nowhere else.
Canada is amazing for a ski holiday or summer break at Banff, but try and live there. It’s got so many rules and regulations it will drive you insane. Then you have to deal with minus 30 or more in winter. They can keep their utopia. Been to Calgary, Vancouver, Kamloops and Toronto. Lovely for holiday but not to live….
@BOG: Ok, just did some quick research (and cutting into my capacity to earm money, cosYcos it’s raining and slippery out there!), Canada is incredibly restrictive when it comes to medical grads. Everyone who does not stufy there needs to write the exams, and even then you have a slim chance of getting residency there. Not going to spell it out here, but let’s just say that you cannot use that as a reason to knock SA education.
http://www.rxpgonline.com/article1471.html
I am no hopeless optimist, just have a nasty habit of querying assumptions.
@BOG: But since Canada started asking for SA medicical grads to write exams what other countries have the same requirement, just to make sure it’s not a rule that applies to many places, that’s all. Agree with the passport issue, I travelled a lot in the 80’s and didn’t need visas for 1/2 of Europe, now there is not a spot I can go without one, and that was in the dark days. Strange. Saw the link below in the papers tonight, talks a out the issue.
http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/strict-screening-for-late-birth-ids-1.1761866#.VDV4Oz0ayc1
@BOG: boet for 10 years I stood in queues to get Schengen visas, went to mainland Europe over 50 times in 10 years, it’s kak! What’s worse now is Saffa’s even need a visa for the UK now. I will always hold hope for SA, hence our return. We have a 2 year old daughter and want her to grow up in a great country. Doomdayers said in 94 SA would be ruined in 5 years, still here. The BRICS are all struggling for growth, it will come again…..cycles, cycles!
@Gungets Tuft: I dont fully agree with you.Im my comment to Roger, I mention my nephew who graduated from med school and is required to sit exams for Canada. And he did not do medcine at Fort Hare. That was not always the case. SA medical graduates were given registration without restriction. As far as schools are concerned,seen “globally” in SA, we were spoilt and no person would deny that the standards have declined and continue to decline. This in contrast to very high standards in many individual schools. And the same applies to schools abroad. There seems to be a dual system. In the US, they speak of illiterate school graduates.So, many contradictions@Grasshopper: Try standing in lines when you travel in Europe, that of course, after you have applied for visas and gone for interviews. You will pull out that purple book very quickly and see what the world REALLY think of SAs. Can you blame them if every second Nigerian drug lord is using a fake SA passport, or one obtained by bribery and corruption. And dont look at SA now. Make a realistic assessment and determine where it will be in 5, 10 and 15 yrs from now. SA is not going to remain as it is- and that is my point.Its not difficult- just be objective, discard emotion and honest. Its more accurate than weather and economic forecasts.
Boggy boggy bog, firstly Ballito is 50km from Durban so not Durban. I have been to Australia, lived in Ireland, England, Israel and Denmark so seen the best. I have also been to Dubai, India, Pakistan & Kenya, SA is pretty good considering. Also, I got my purple book because of time not because I really wanted it. I have not used it yet and been back in SA two years…
@meadows: Indeed, it is difficult to get an idea of parity, even if we ignore the differences in quality of education. I must say that I think we make too much of the quality of the university education from the Big 7 (UCT, Stellies, Rhodes, UFS, Potch, Tuks, Wits), their quality is still well regarded overseas. Our Universities might not make it onto the ratings radar but that’s because fo the method used to rate them. Universities are generally rated on the number of published research papers, and we struggle in that area. Bog can tell you that South Africans are still sought after with their SA Degrees. We might have to write recertifications, but generally those are because of country specific requirements (legislation, standards etc). Or so I am lead to believe, I am open to correction. I believe a doctor from Australia arriving in Canada would also be required to write the local exam.
Out Matric – even IEB is poorly regarded. This I know because I have investigated it – but it’s also a bit of a red herring because my god-kids arrived in Aus from Clifton (one matriculated with all A’s, the other in Grade 11 – was immediately put into a “gifted” class whereas he was middle grade here). I hate to cry racism, but I genuinely believe it is a form of national racism with the Western world belief that everything in Africa is broken. Happy to receive argument about that too but I have experienced it myself.
Where is ou Ploegie aka Topic Monitor – he must be having a thrombosis …
@Roger: Im really not trying to present myself as a philanthropist in any way. Im here fore the duration, for various reasons, financial being one. Goodness, transferring money, even to Oz, sees a huge reduction in value ( not that I have much) But as far as my children are concerned, one (he holds a foreign passport) is already abroad, and my daughter who will graduate next year, will leave as well- with my encouragement and blessing. Im simp;y being realistic. And the authorities in the more popular emigration destinations, are aware of declining standards. My nephew and godson, finished medical school and is about to complete his community service. He is moving to Canada but must sit an exam- essentially a repeat of his finals. They are aware that marks are adjusted. What do you expect if the “university” of Limpopo gives honourary degrees to a 100 witch doctors
@BOG: well done Bog – big up to you then. I just battle to reconcile your cynical comments on this blog to your “philanthropic” work (for want of a better word). Will you encourage your children to pack up and leave as soon as they are able or to stay and try and make a difference? I too have lived abroad for eight years and traveled most of the world. We have massive challenges in SA but I would say I am more in Playa’s camp than yours?
BTW – wrt “putting my money where my mouth is” – and to murder another idiom – “charity begins at home” – I am rather busy with my own kids and their (private) education right now but perhaps sometime in the future, if I am still in sunny SA and haven’t yet joined you in Perth, San Francisco, London or Mauritius
@BOG: HAHAHAHAHAHA
# dead on the floor!!!
@Playa: You bet, but at least we are where we were before someone , from Durbs nogal, had the audacity to criticise Bloem. Now we are discussing Big Macs. I have eaten BMs in a few locations and the quality seems to be determined by the strength of the currency of the country. After all, the holding company in the States, must maintain margins. The quality of a BM in the UK was far superior to the BM in SA and please, this is not a political (or economic) statement. So, I dont think that the “BM test” is a realistic one
@BOG: Well I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one, and wait for the future to unfold.
@Gungets Tuft: A “big mac” type tests flaw (as a comparative index of purchasing power parity) in this example is the presumption that you are getting the same education (big Mac) for more or less in the different economies and currencies meaning that one currency or the other is over or undervalued. That said there may be a better way of comparing the relative costs.
Personally I don’t give a toss either which is why I questioned the relevance of the article. That said, where the costs of offshore private schools will become relevant is when our domestic standards (including tertiary) deteriorate to the point that it becomes impossible to gain acceptance to a credible offshore tertiary institution out of the SA schooling system.
@meadows: Conversions to Rands at the exchange rate is a false indicator of costs. Salaries are commensurate, so it still costs a percentage of annual salary. I don’t like the Big Mac test, but it might be more accurate if tuition costs were done in Big Macs per year rather. I couldn’t give a toss, not enough broken down cars for me to afford private schools, so I am not going to do that analysis.
I’m not sure why cost of schooling is relevant. Independent and state schools all have a role to play in our society and I am a great admirer of many of the state schools that have maintained academic and sporting standards in the face of the general “dumbing down” of education standards that seems to be part of government policy.
If costs are relevant I can assure the independent school detractors that we are still getting pretty good value for money in SA compared to international standards. A year at Eton, for example, will set you back over R600 000 for board and tuition at current exchange rates. I’m not sure that Eton even makes it into the top 10 internationally though. That seems to be the preserve of the Swiss who, when I last saw an article on the subject, occupied all of those places with fees of well over R700 000 pa.
In New York non boarding private schools like the Browning school on the Upper east side, whose alumni include John D Rockefeller and JP Morgan, charge over R450 000 pa just for tuition.
@Roger: Roger, let me begin with you. You asked me what I am doing here? Im caring for children,as my own, mostly black and they call me Dad. The children in need of care in SA, are increasing by 25000 PER MONTH. Why not join me and put your money where your mouth is and open your home for 6 or so. Every bit helps. What about the others?@Grasshopper: I too, have travelled extensively and Im very familiar with the colour of the grass on the other side of the fence. But you did wait to qualify for the “little purple book” before returning? That tells me how you REALLY feel. But its not the colour of the grass on the other side, that concerns me- Im more concerned about what is happening to the grass where I am. Migration, accepted widely, always seems to be a very sensitive issue in SA, driven by frustration. Essentially, there are two factors which drive or cause migration, Firstly, PULL FACTORS, where a person is lured away by better prospects, career advancement or other benefits. Such a move is normally without bitterness or hatred and the move is made, often with the intention of returning. However, the second, the PUSH FACTORS, is where you are virtually forced away from your country by circumstances beyond your control- war, discrimination, corruption, AA, BEE, collapsing standards—. That goes with bitterness, even hatred.The house is sold, the dogs and mother-in-law is packed and the bridges burned. Soon after 1994, many were attracted elsewhere- “pulled”. Many returned, hopeful, but are now being “pushed” away- not by the attraction of “the other side”, but by the deteriorating circumstances on “this side of the fence”. For a very objective article, read “The ANC stole my dream. Why I emigrated” by Bertus De Villiers why-we-are-white-refugees.blogspot.com/2010/01/anc-stole-my-dream-why-i-emigrated.html @Playa: You have the social challenges to which I referred above. Add to that a corrupt and incompetent government, totally unable to deliver and a band of rabble rousers (EFF) , sitting back, just concentrating on the failures of the regime. All the EFF needs to do, is play the populist tunes-music in the ears of the unemployed masses and in 5 yrs from now, will be close to being the government. Disasterous for the country, but would they care? So, in 11 yrs from now, you will see one of two possibilities. Either the ANC will be in power by force, via fraud , ala Zimbabwe, or the EFF will be in power. Neither scenarios are encouraging. These are more or less the views of the credit rating companies and explains to an extent, their downward grading of SA.
@GreenBlooded: For me, I think that the defining factor is that we have had 4 different state presidents, albeit from the same party in 20 years of democracy. This to me says that we are likely to see a repeat of the Indian process than a Zimbabwean process – one party, one president for over 40 years.
The Indian National Congress (INC) which was the liberation party ruled for 30 years since independence and was ousted in elections by opposition parties which amalgamated. There have been changes in guard since then. Point is, no one person ruled for a prolonged period, and therefore no loyalty to one person.
These are my views of course, maybe I’m in denial
@Playa: I’m not so optimistic – I completely agree with you that the correction needs to take place – but I don’t see the ANC stepping aside and magnanimously handing over power to a victorious opposition.
@Gungets Tuft:
@BOG: congratulations Bog – you have just got me and Hopper to agree on something. What’s keeping you here? Are you awaiting the proclamation of the Republic of Oranje – off to Perth with you!
@Grasshopper: Income, Safety, Security – used to be the foundation of Mazlow’s hierarchy. The foundation has now been replaced by “Free WiFi” and “Battery life” … more important than Safety and security ..
@BOG: I would say that there is a bigger chance of a revolution against the ANC than one by the ANC (and it’s supporters) against everyone else. Neither scenario is desirable of course. But if history really does repeat itself…how’s this:
The 1980s mess you talk about was a by product of the 1976 protests (started by school kids). We know mostly of the Soweto uprising, but less of the fact that there were similar uprisings in the EC and WC townships.
Fast forward to 2014 – ANC has long lost its hold on the WC, we saw that they’ve lost ground in Gauteng, and most alarming is that ground has been lost in the EC, namely the Nelson Mandela Metropolitan (PE) – which is ironically where the hub of activity was in 1976 and the years that followed.
Unlike you, I do not think that the inevitable revolution will be one of blood and flames, but rather one of a democratic process. I am no fan of the EFF, and they will never get my vote, but they have been good for our democracy because for the first time in 20 years, people actually are listening to the opposition (the DA has also been a beneficiary of this). And when people start listening to the opposition, they start to see the fault in the party that they have been loyal to all along, and can then begin to criticise the party constructively, then make better choices with their votes.
That is where I see this country going, and it wont be long now before that correction takes place.
Now where is the topic administrator?
@Playa: Think I have said it before, Mbali and Vosloorus .. eeisch, you knew how to look for hot spots. Vosloorus is the only place I ever had to drive for my life after nearly running out or petrol close by and driving in there to get a fill up. about 1979 .. I took R10 and drove … fast.
@BOG: Not sure what you on about in the last two sentences. Mate, I have visited over 50 countries, SA is not that bad. You are obviously a dooms dayer, why don’t you go live in Perth with the Aussies and flies….
@Grasshopper: If poverty was linked to crime, we would have seen the biggest crime wave during the depression. But we did not. Why? Because they had strong morals. They did not resort to plunder, theft and murder, despite extreme hardship and hunger. In the 1980s the ANC promised that they would make SA ungovernable. It would seem, that after 20 yrs as the government, they have at last, succeeded in that goal. If those disparities which you refer to, did impact on crime, then the future looks even bleaker. In fact, a revolution seems unavoidable. Only recently, it was announced that half of the population is under 25 and that by 2015, one third will be under 18- the majority unemployed. It does not require much speculation to draw conclusions from that. As with the weather, economy and indeed a medical prognosis , one is not “negative” when expressing oneself, providing one looks at verifiable indicators and not rely on emotion and speculative trash.
@BOG: boet, I was not derogatory about Bloem, just said it was like living in the 80’s, that is a good thing. A bit like Pleasantville. I lived in the UK for 11 years, it certainly ain’t greener on the other side.
@Gungets Tuft: I can certainly attest to that having spent the 80s in Mbali (PMB) and later Vosloorus (JHB) before being shipped off to board in the ‘safer’ Ciskei (Alice) in 1990.The ‘safer’ tag disappeared when Oupa Gqozo started shooting people for kicks. If there is a crime that is relatively new in SA, it is rape. Even then, my view is that it just was not reported back in those days.
@Gungets Tuft: @Roger: The two of you certainly have a way to turn things around and point the finger in another direction. Let me repeat myself for the third time. I responded to a derogatory remark of Bloem by Grasshopper. Go and read it. You may also notice that the heading of the post is about the cost of schools and that is what I focussed on until Hopper felt compelled to express himself on Bloem. And by the way- I only attended school there, But Roger, Im glad that I contributed to your and Hoppers agreement on something- for the first time. And the provincial stats which I referred to, was that from the SAPS- it could, if anything, be higher.But that is for another forum.@Grasshopper: The young are not just moving up and down the coast- most are moving abroad. And I hear that since the Mark Shuttleworth ruling, the flood gates are opening.
Interesting that Glenwood’s top academics all come from traditional feeder schools like Manor Gardens & Penzance, good to see! http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/sites/default/files/Student-Top%2010%20-Term%203%202014.pdf
@Gungets Tuft: Yep, I grew up with ‘net blankes’ signs, catching blue & green buses, dark skinned friends getting chucked off beaches etc, I remember it well. I also remember the first black kid in my std4 class. I’m not that young and wet behind the ears. We live in a country of extremes, extreme wealth and poverty, with such extremes naturally violence and theft will occur. If only we could give more budget to policing and security, that would be my big election manifesto if I were a politician. Education and safety breed prosperity. I certainly can’t afford to live in Zimbali, I’m in an affordable family estate north of Ballito…
@Grasshopper: SA has always had high crime levels. If you think it’s a new thing then it’s your age showing. Speak to people who lived in the “non white” area’s about the levels of crime and the presense of police and you will find (sadly) that little has changed.
In 1994 the ANC election slogan was “Making it happen where you live”. Let’s never accuse them of not living up to their election promises …
And if you can afford to live in Zimbali you are a fortunate man indeed.
@Gungets Tuft: Freudian slip perhaps?
Nowhere in SA is perfectly safe, part and parcel of a corrupt government. But if you live in fear then SA is not for you. My point is the inner city is not great anymore and it’s moved up the ridge and Glenwood. Hopefully they can do what Cape Town did and revitalise the Vic Embankment and CBD, that would be great. The World cup helped sort the beach boulevard which is great now. Just needs some property investors to buy the old wrecked out flats, redo them and tenants will follow with business. I believe Hillbrow is getting better now too. Reality is though that young Durban families are leaving the leafy suburbs to go up or down the coast or inland to Hillcrest upwards. Estates like Cotswold Downs, Simbithi, Zimbali, Brettenwood, Palm Lakes etc are booming…oh yes, another crazy vaalie haven in St Francis Bay, what a mess in December. Crazy kids on jetski’s drunk and dangerous. Usually a big accident or a death each year….
@Roger: The taxi shooting was a couple of months ago, at the shopping centre rank just off the N2. It was a once of thing, me being childish to mention it
.I hear about the Ballito stuff because I have a boet and couple of mates that live there. It was no more noteworthy than the known scam artist knocking on doors in Durban North and getting jaaged by the Neighbourhood Watch. We all know the realities of living in South Africa, and most of us are lucky to be isolated from the “high statistic” areas.
@BOG: curious Bog – where do you live – cos I wanna go there? Sounds like Utopia. You strike me as the kind of fella who is only happy when bitching and moaning – you know the type – glass is always half empty. If it’s so bad here you are welcome to move on – surely!
@Gungets Tuft: I was in Balito on the w/end – heard nothing about a shooting. Was probably the last Amstel that made me deaf. Hope they complete the roadworks at the off ramp before my next visit though – eisch!
@Gungets Tuft: Shew, talk about an autocorrect that could invite comment …. ANC = and
@BOG: Well, since I believe in lies, damned lies and statistics, as well as the burden of proof belonging to the person making the claim, I suppose you can link those stats to Durban. I suspect that they didn’t all happen in Point Road, any more than all Free State family murders happen in Jock Meiring Street. Grassy has slapped your hobby horse on the arse ANC given you a post to hitch it to in Durban. I won’t try to dispute your point until you make one, if that’s ok.
@Gungets Tuft: As I pointed out earlier,discussing crime in Durban, was merely a response to Grasshopper.Although, statistically, KZN has the most murders of all provinces, followed by EC, WC and then Gauteng, (most recent figures) the purpose was to discuss cost of schools.And with a daughter living in Durban, I do have a direct interest in the place- whether I like it or not.
@BOG: Bru, the hijacking attempt was about 3 years ago, a good mate of mine watched it happen, his boys dived over a garden wall. You’re not seriously going to go the crime route here are you, because you would do well to check Bloem car theft stats before you do. Dislike Durbs if you like but to look for crime incidents to support it is a little desperate isn’t it, you don’t need something like that to make yourself feel validated … ??
@Gungets Tuft: The purpose of my comment was not really to discuss the pros and cons of Durban- I merely responded to a remark by Hopper. But since my last comment, I read about an attempted hi-jacking in Glenwood and shooting while the boys on their way home, looked on. Another, an ATM blown up in Florida Rd. You could rightfully speak of the “Wild East”. But as you say, horses for courses and if that keeps you on your toes–. Apart from having the most murders, KZN can proudly claim 17000 school pregnancies in 2010. Truly an exciting area.
@BOG: Yep, Enforce have a surfing division that accompanies us into the water to protect us. You could try and convince me that all the vaalies are going to Mozambique but I live here and its like an avalanche in holiday season, but you wouldn’t know because you are up in Moz with the jetski brigade. I’ve done Punto in holiday season, eeisch, never again. The okes that decide the KZN coast is not for them are right …
I could give a rats who decides not to come to Durbs, I didn’t settle here for the holiday makers. And the beaches are fine … I swim in the water 4 or 5 days a week, still alive and kicking
@PaarlBok: Waaroor sal ek nou windgat wees? Ek was daar in n era toe ons koolstowe in die klaskamers gehad en die dak gedreig het om in te tuimel. As ek van bloot feite afgedwaal het, skiet maar. O ja, en die skoolfonds was onder R100 pj.@LAEVELDER: My son was at Uplands when it was still only a primary school and the boarding and school fees combined, under 30K ( And the school and hostels did not come close to what I knew)@Grasshopper: Most of the South Coast and to a lesser extent, the North Coast, can thank the closure of Mozambique, for its development. Now that Mozambique has re-opened, the wise, are all going back there. Probably only people from Welkom , Krugersdorp and Brakpan@Gungets Tuft: I believe Durban s beaches are now all green flagged- indicating the colour of the sewage flowing into the sea. Do you move around in public without an armed escort?
@Grasshopper: Don’t say I not willing to lend a hand to fellow bloggers ..
http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/doomsday-preppers/
Me … eeisch .. I am just going to have to take my chances in the criminal wasteland outside the walls ..makes me feel like Max Rockatansky driving to work in the morning …
@Gungets Tuft: Yep, I am aware of that. Hence, I live in an estate in Tinley Manor 13 km away :-)
@Roger: Where did that come from?
He’s still a College boy, not to worry, if personality was the only way I gave credit I could save a lot of time …
@Grasshopper: You’ll find it if you look. I drove into Ballito on Saturday night, right past the mall where there were taxi shooting two nights in a row not long ago. Didn’t occur to me to label the place.
Did you find what you were looking for on Point Road??
@Roger: KP is just a pillock, always has been….
@Gungets Tuft: About 3 days ago, from uShaka to Suncoast ain’t bad, go about 50m back into Point Rd outwards and the outlook is less exciting…
heh @Gungets Tuft: surely old KP must now be regarded as an ex rather than a former College boytjie
@Grasshopper: When last were you in “Durban” for the not so great part. Been down on a Sunday morning for a run, cycle or stroll down the promenade, coffee or breakfast. Don’t take Bogs word for it … I brave the hellhole almost daily to swim, surf, paddle … Bog is upset that there is this much water and it’s too salty for the maize or cattle …
@BOG: Jeez boet, half of Gauteng are in Ballito as we speak. I can’t even get my bread and milk wihout having to dodge a GP plate or queue somewhere. Yes, Durban ain’t great, but the north and south coasts are packed with binnelanders…
You guys might be surprised to see Uplands College close to White River/Nelspruit’s fees even topping most of the schools on this list
@Beet SACS, WBHS, RBHS ?
@BOG: To put it in perspective, the shrink was largely because of the less and less number of boarders. The ratio between boarders and dayboys was about 50/50 back then when the school had large numbers. Numbers have gone up to about 500 now. With boarders from afar seeming to ‘not be interested’, focus was placed on local kids instead…
…and oh…as for technology in the classroom, that’s covered…a certain old boy who is the former CEO of Dimension Data took care of that
@BOG: PRG se koshuise is baie klein in vergelyking met Gim en Boishaai. Skoliere kry nie maklik plek in die koshuise nie. PRG het meer busdienste van Strand Somerset Wes en Noordelike voorstede at self baie duur is.
en Bog jy hoef nie te spog nie. GC doen goed genoeg sonder n windgat in sy geledere.
@oldschool: Just off the hip- academics, sporting achievements and perhaps a schools contribution to cultural development of region/country. But most importantly, the centrality of the school in relation to the country.
Im sure that there could be other criteria as well.
@Gungets Tuft: I took no offence. Why I asked about the hostels, is just to confirm that they are in mint condition, even though national monuments. I gather that the income from the business properties, helps a lot. Perhaps MC can build a Makro on the premises.(or a casino and night club)@Playa: Goodness, I did not realize that Dale has shrunk that much. The classes have got smaller, but for the wrong reasons, it would seem. Despite the sizable classes, GCB have embraced all the latest technology- from interactive white boards to maths centre- a far cry from my days with coal stoves for heating and classrooms falling apart. But even then, there was heart and soul and that remains@PaarlBok: Het julle n goeie keuse van wyne saam met julle etes of net plaaslik ?
@BOG: Moet sê ek was baie verbaas om te sien Grey se fooie is so laag.
@BOG: what is the proven criteria when judging school success ?
Fooie hier in die Boland, Koshuis ingesluit
PRG R55,250
Landbou R37,860
Paarl Gim R47,600
@BOG: From my experience, being in a high school class of 35-40 is great preparation for a varsity lecture theatre of 120+ later on in life
This was early on however, as by matric we were a school of 25-30 per class. Numbers at Dale had gone from 600 (my Std 6 class had 150 boys) when I was in Std 6 to 350 (my matric class had 82 boys) when I was in matric.
@BOG: Sorry man, that wasn’t meant to sound like an accusation, the fees are so low that it invites (envious) questions. I didn’t see the hostels and Hamilton hall, was running myself stukkend trying to keep up with rugby and hockey and didn’t feel right driving from spot to spot. The campus is brilliant, all very well kept, so clearly lot’s being done right there.
@Grasshopper: If you have seen the condition of the campus, you will know that you are talking through your nose. And I would hardly rate Durbs as my favourite holiday destination. But, that is beyond the point. And Im not in or from Bloem.@Gungets Tuft: I cannot speak with first hand knowledge, but they have always been in a unique situation. The UOFS is on ground donated by GCB- in fact when it began in 1904, it was known as the Grey University College. So, you can imagine the original size- it was a farm. They now have 61 hectares left and its not government owned, but owned and managed by the Jock Meiring Trust. The business properties came after I left but you are right. There are on average 240 learners per grade, which gives you a teacher/ class ratio of 35-40 per class. It may sound high, but the results(academic) are excellent. But however you look at it, its clear that they are doing a very good job at keeping down the costs. And you must have seen the condition of the hostels and Hamilton hall (the mess) ? And from what I hear, they dont only live on PVM- Pap, vleis en Melk
@BOG: I am told that GCB own a lot of the rental property around the school, including business properties, which subsidises the school. You also have very low teacher numbers, I can’t remember what I was told but it was significantly lower than College. Does that translate to larger classes or are you okes just very mobile?
@Playa: Glenwood use the R35k profit to buy in new rugga players
@BOG: But you have to live in the middle of nowhere. Although to be fair Bloem seems quite a nice spot, when I was there a few months back it felt like I was taken back to the early 1980’s….
@Playa: This is true Value for money. School fees @ R16500 pa and Hostel @ R23625. And all of that on 61 hectares of pristine school grounds. And they have the academic, cultural and sporting achievements to show. You better get the name of that kwedien of yours, in the hat
@All Black: In your defence, that is still “around R80K”…
Interestingly, GCB is around R40k including boarding…makes a man think, doesn’t it…
Obviously, there is no correlation between “most expensive” and “best” schools in SA- based on proven criteria. Several examples of no value for money
Apologies. Been told College is R77k per annum.
Glenwood High School’s Fees for 2014 have been set at R31 200 for Grades 9 – 12. In addition to the fees all pupils will pay a Capital Development Levy of R1 000 pa. The New Pupil Fee is R32 800 which includes the Capital Development Levy. The Annual Gibson Fee has been set at R42 900.00. These figures were approved by a General Meeting of parents held on 30 October 2013.
So only R74,100 to board, no wonder so many out of town parents send them to Glenwood….bargain :-)
Maritzburg College parents must be shouting from the roof tops at around R80k all in for boarding and tuition. Boys eat like kings, small classes and have some of the best facilities in the country. The staff cricket side beat the 1st team last year which also shows the youthfulness of the staff. Very positive. I must add that schools are a very personal choice so not having a go at private schools or other government schools. Just about College and nothing more.
Durban Girls College, day scholar R76,300 per annum and boarders add R60k so R136k per annum for boarders, up there!
@seabass: Clifton now, R102 grand a year for a day-boy, plus a non-refundable R10 grand acceptance. Puts them at number 3 for day scholars. It’s a good thing you okes are still close to St Augustines – okes can sell a kidney to a Israeli patient and still make it back in time to watch the lightie play waterpolo …
@oldschool: hahah, true always been a co-ed school Hilton..
@seabass: hahah, only at grade 8 from DPHS…
@Grasshopper: you could send your girls to Hilton ……
@Grasshopper: you could send your girls to Hilton ?
@Grasshopper: and we don’t recruit rugga players after grade 8
@seabass: I have a little girl, so girls schools for me now but might have a boy one day. Old Gerry was my Geography teacher at Glenwood so would certainly consider it :-)
@Grasshopper: if private schooling is your thing, then Clifton is a very attractive option!
Where is Durban Girls College? Hilton & MHS just crazy!!