Free State u19 thumps the Sharks u19

July marks the start of the annual provincial under-19 (and under-21) season. Free State u19 sent out a strong signal that they are ready for the action by beating the Sharks u19 42-5.

This year’s under-19 competition promises to be extra special due to the oversupply of talent coming through from the matric class of 2013. Over the past few seasons it’s been the Bulls who have over-recruited as a result of a bigger budget but for this season there really does seem to be a more even spread of the best that school rugby produced in 2013, which should result in a very entertaining competition.

Free State had recently improved junior rugby facilities, making the rugby union a very attractive destination for school leavers who were serious about making it to the pros. The upgrade now puts the Cheetahs in a position to start reaping the rewards of having stronger squads to work hand in hand with the outstanding coaching staff of Andre Tredoux (attacking co-ordinator), Johnny Rourke (defence/conditioning), Daan Human (forwards), Skillie Bester (backs), Wynand Ellis (analyst) and Eric Collyn (physio).

The massive defeat at the hands of the Free State is a bit of a shock to the system of the Sharks as they too are meant to have a good team this season. However traditionally the Sharks are slow starters at this age group level. The reason is the KZN based players (mainly from the Sharks Academy) participate in a strong under-20 club competition during the first part of the year. There is nothing quite to match the Sharks club competition setup in SA junior rugby at the moment and along with offering youngsters game time at a high level, it also provides fringe players and undiscovered talent with the opportunity to play themselves into a place in provincial under-19 rugby – the track that just about every modern era Springbok once followed. So whereas other unions players have been practicing as a provincial team for a few months due to the absence of any meaningful strength versus strength regional competitions other than a handful of Varsity Young Guns games for some, the Sharks only really get together halfway through the year after they are released from club commitments.

Teams:

# POS FREE STATE u19 SCHOOL # POS SHARKS u19 SCHOOL
1 Prop Ox Nche Louis Botha 1 Prop Mzamo Majola Westville
2 Hooker Reinach Venter Waterkloof 2 Hooker Wesley White Bishops
3 Prop WP Eloff Affies 3 Prop Ruan Kramer Grey College
4 Lock Erik van Niekerk Ben Vorster 4 Lock/Flank Johan du Toit Swartland
5 Lock Hendri Storm Outeniqua 5 Lock Hyron Andrews Garsfontein
6 Flank Wilandre Kotzenberg HTS Middelburg 6 Flank Jedwyn Harty Selborne
7 Flank Junior Burger Duineveld 7 Flank Luandre Luus Paarl Gim
8 No.8 Jasper Wiese Upington 8 No.8 Ayron Schramm Kearsney
9 Scrumhalf TJ Goddard Tygerberg 9 Scrumhalf Reece McHardy Westville
10 Flyhalf Andre Swarts Grey College 10 Flyhalf Innocent Radebe St Stithians
11 Wing Lorenzo Gordon Oakdale 11 Wing Philip Marais Welkom Gim
12 Wing Johan Nel Grey College 12 Centre Brad Ellse Westville
13 Utility Back Gerrie Labuscaghne Die Anker 13 Centre Nkululeko Mcuma Glenwood
14 Wing Morne van Staden Affies 14 Wing Johan Heunes Richards Bay
15 Fullback Sechaba Matsoele Voortrekker (Beth) 15 Fullback Chris Lines Kearsney
16 Hooker Heinrich de Jongh Garsfontein 16 Prop George Young Merensky
17 Prop Conraad van Vuuren Nelspruit 17 Hooker Jordan Meaker Kearsney
18 Prop Gunther Janse van Vuuren Monument 18 Prop Mthunzi Moloi Kearsney
19 Lock Johan Grundlingh Transvalia 19 Lock Chris Thompson King’s Robin Hills
20 Flank Fifi Rampeta Louis Botha 20 Lock Petrus du Buson HTS Middelburg
21 Scrumhalf Christiaan Erasmus Nelspruit 21 Flank Andre de la Rey Westville
22 Utilty Darron Barron Paarl Gim 22 Flank Waelon Hippolite Glenwood
23 Fullback Corne Vermaak Glenwood 23 Lock Wiaan Vosloo Klerksdorp
24 Bjorn van Wyk Grey College 24 Scrumhalf Rowan Gouws Middelburg
25 No.8 Nardus Erasmus Waterkloof 25 Flyhalf Joshua Bragman Hartlepool, England
26 Ryno Nel Kalahari 26 Wing Malcolm Cele Greytown
Inj Centre Stephen Rautenbach Grey College 27 Jacque Nel Diamandveld
Inj Wing Arno van Staden Pietersburg 28 Flyhalf/Centre Merlyn Pieterse Port Natal
u21 Flyhalf Ruan Potgieter EG Jansen 29 Wing Rameez Nell Bergsig
u21 Centre Carel Jan Coetzee Jim Fouche 30 Utility Kelvin Elder Maritzburg College
u21 Flank Daniel Maartens Nelspruit DNP Prop Thomas Du Toit HJS Paarl BH
DNP Flank Jandre Slabbert Affies Inj Hooker Andrew du Plessis Grey College
DNP Lock SJ Roux Boland Landbou DNP Flank JL du Preez Kearsney
DNP Lock Wiehan Landman EG Jansen Inj Flank Dan du Preez Kearsney
DNP Hooker Morne de Beer Fichardtpark Inj Flank/Centre Marius Louw Grey College
DNP Wing Ethan Sias Garsfontein Scrumhalf Matt Reece-Edwards Kearsney
DNP Lock Casper Fourie Grey College Centre Justin Newman Windhoek Gim
DNP No.8 Andries Kriek Grey College Prop Cameron Holenstein Michaelhouse
DNP Hooker Ryno Gerber Sentraal Hooker Kyle Lewis Benoni

132 Comments

  1. The Sharks u21’s also lost but the sad part is that both the Free state sides lost to the Lions i heard,so things not looking so good for the Sharkies

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  2. That is a bit of a klap.

    I’ve thought that the other provinces sometimes don’t play enough rugby ahead of the Currie Cup at this level putting them at a disadvantage. Lions U19 and U21 sides both beat their OFS counterparts a week ago in Kroonstad so it could be a long season for the junior Sharkies.

    I’m not sure if they still do but the Lions juniors used to turn out for UJ’s U19 & U21 sides ahead of the CC but unless they played Tuks, OFS, or Pukke etc there wasn’t much competition in the local league.

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  3. Does anyone have teamsheets of the Lions u/19 & u/21 teams that beat the Cheetahs in Kroonstad ?

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  4. @meadows: The Sharks u19s are definitely a team that could do with another practice game or two judging by this result.

    On 12 July they play the Leopards at home. That is never an easy game. The Leopards have a habit of turning unknown schoolboys into a good team at u19 level, then somehow at u21 level things fall apart for them even though they retain most of their u19 players. I always found that bizarre.

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  5. @beet: I suspect that it may be the resources and experience gained by being at a Super Rugby/ Currie Cup franchise beginning to make a difference. The U21’s at the bigger unions often get experience at Vodacom Cup and/or Varsity Cup when the senior guys playing Super Rugby.

    The U21 Currie Cup has been dominated by WP and the Bulls with the Lions, Sharks and OFS usually battling it out for the other two semi final slots. Leopards can usually be relied on to upset one of the latter three in Potch.
    The gap between the “haves” and “have nots” is best illustrated by the revolving door at the bottom of the log where each year the newly promoted side gets whipped by all and returns to the B section the following year.

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  6. @Cappie: En hoeveel spelers in die Bulle se strukture kom van die VS, spesifiek GCB, af? Laas wat ek gehoor het, was dit 20 of 30?@beet: If I were Marius Louw or Andrew du Plessis, I would hasten back to the FS. Had it not been for injuries, Paul Jordaan would still be “finding his feet” somewhere. Marius Louw would walk in to the FS side- as a flank and not as a makeshift centre

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  7. @Bog: I want both players to stay in Durban :-D But I agree about Louw, keep the boy at flank! Andrew is coming back from an injury and will be in the starting lineup.

    Do not read too much into this result, it is a wake up call that was needed.

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  8. @BOG: Dit sal interessant wees om te sien. Miskien kan @Beet: vir ons die Bulle se oorsprong ook gee. Ek stem saam, dat die Bulle, maar hoofsaaklik die Sharks tradisioneel vrot is van GC seuns.

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  9. @Cappie: Bulls team of 27 that played Leopards recently :

    Wyatt Murphy Paarl Gim
    Thys van Wyk Affies
    Philip Orffer Affies
    Peet Schoeman Marlow
    Jixie Molapo Ben Vorster
    Kurt Webster DHS
    Remu Malan Outeniqua
    Hanro Liebenberg Drostdy
    Denzel Hill Jeppe
    Martin Groenewald Grey HS
    Burger van Niekerk HJS Paarl BH
    Calvonn Allison Affies
    Johan van Wyk Waterkloof
    Vuyo Khatide Maritzburg College
    Xander van Wyk Waterkloof
    Jan van der Merwe Affies
    Matthys Basson Boland Landbou
    Menzi Nhlabathi Nelspruit
    Jason Jenkins St Albans
    Matthew Alborough Grey HS
    Toko Maebane Ben Vorster
    Attie Louw Boland Landbou
    Stephan Ebersohn Grey HS
    Desmond Stramis Windhoek Gim
    Francois Steyn Affies
    Dimitrio Tieties Noord-Kaap
    Impi Visser Ermelo

    Quick count 10 / 27 from Affies, Klofies, St Albans and Ben Vorster (Lim Blue Bulls)

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  10. @QC86: Sorry to hear about Baywatch. I hope he makes a speedy recovery.

    Forwards
    Matt Jones
    Halalisani Buthelezi
    Brandon Langsberg
    Mees Erasmus
    Jacques Taylor
    Roan Dalzell
    David Fisher
    Johann Wagenaar
    Ferdie Horn
    Ray Williams
    Jean Pretorius
    Buzwe Mpotulo
    Johann Meyer
    Barend Potgieter
    Sias Koen

    Backs

    Stefan Ungerer
    Cameron Wright
    Hanco Venter
    Brendon Cope
    Alrin Eksteen
    Wion Roberttse
    Tyler Fisher
    Alcino Izaacs
    Michael Cloete
    Nkululeko Marawana
    Sipo Mkhize
    Max Freydell Austrian but lives in Chile
    Garath Meikle

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  11. Glad to see Groenewald playing again after his horrific injury – Bulls squad looks strong. This could be the toughest u19 Currie Cup in years

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  12. Leave the Sharks alone. They are setting the right things in motion and the results will start to appear in the near future.

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  13. @Cappie: Their star players joined the Sharks and WPRI. Free State still did well to hold onto Stephan Rautenbach and they have Henry Immelman once he recovers from his facial injuries.

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  14. @BOG: Lyk my jou inligtingsbronne is verouderd! Ek sien die Bulle ploeg nou met hulle eie kallers, en die Vrystaat ploeg ook met die Bulle se kallers.

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  15. @Beet: Yes, Kubeka and Maritz, where the hell are they – must be injured…

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  16. @Cappie: In seasons gone by the Bulls were the market leaders in the u19 contracting game but it seems like WP has taken that lead now and the other unions like the FS, Lions and Sharks look as if they have good squads as well (on paper), so maybe the Bulls will struggle a bit for a chance.

    The distribution of talent is good for SA rugby. Last year I believe the Bulls had to cut some promising young players in September, so those boys did not even last a year and never got to experience u19 Currie Cup rugby which would have been possibly had they joined a different union.

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  17. @Beet: Never heard of the guy before, will try find out.

    You are right, the Bulls would simply recruit too many good players, meaning a lot never got game time and a lot of them simply gave up trying in the end.

    Much better to distribute talent.

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  18. @beet: Some other schools have catch up, and all the stars are not travelling so far to end up in Bloemfontein any more. There are other schools closer to home that also offers great opportunities.

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  19. @beet: Maybe asking an unfair question but do you have any idea which of the current flock of U/18’s (matrics) will be joining which provinces next year or is it still too early to know?

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  20. @beet: The other problems with the Bulls were, they contracted a huge group of the prime talent, and like you said, they disappeared very soon there after. I am glad the talent is now more distributed. The competition would be stronger, and all the real good players will remain in the system.

    A second thought is how you guide and train your group. It is not only about having talent, it is also how you groom them. In principle I think it should be that the province with the best systems and training efforts should take honours. The playing field is more equal, and those officials that can best manage their athletes will reign.

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  21. @Cappie: Onthou, ek het verwys na al die spanne vd Bulle en nie net die O19s nie. Ek dink daar is deesdae meer by die Bulle as by die Sharks. In SLEGS die S15 groep, net vinnig: Marcel vd Merwe (Eat your heart out HJS ) Deon Stegmann, Flip vd Merwe, Piet V Zyl, Jan Serfontein, W Small-Smith— Amper meer as die Cheetahs ! Dan nog boonop die dokter en afrigtingspersoneel. Gepraat van kallers ploeg en “star” playerts? Jy moet onthou dat GCB verlede jaar n baie swak jaar beleef het. Ja, “3e gerank”, teen hulle standaarde, is n baie swak jaar. Waar le julle nou weer? Julle ou storietjies van “cought up” raak ook al afgesaag. Al wanneer dit gebeur is wanneer GCB nou en dan n af jaar beleef. Inhaal, beteken noodwendig dat GCB sal moet stagneer, en ek twyfel of dit sommer sal gebeur. Vir 160 jaar trek hulle van oral, insluitend Pretoria, na Bloemfontein. Dit sal nie sommer stop nie.

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  22. @BOG: Jy is reg. Niemand sal werklik GCB se rekord van onder die top 5 kan inhaal nie. As ek Eldoraigne maar as voorbeeld neem. Eldo sal moet vir die volgende 120 jaar (Eldo is vanjaar 40) elke jaar onder die top 5 moet wees en GCB sal nie daar moet verskyn vir die volgende 120 jaar net om gelyk te breek.

    Ou Boggie jou rekord is redelik veilig by al die manne wat hier blog! Dalk ons kleinkinders se bekommernis maar jy kan maar salig slaap!!!!

    Ons moet egter maar jaar vir jaar neem dan mag ander skole darem ‘n kans hê om die odd jaar bo te wees. Dis maar al waarvoor die res van ons kan hoop.

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  23. @BOG: Julle rekord spreek definitief van self, en daarmee stry niemand nie. Wat ek wel sê, ander skole het die gaping kleiner gemaak, en kan nou kompeterend deelneem. Weg is die dae dat Grey net kan opdaag en wen. Hulle moet harder werk om te wen as in die verlede.

    Ek stem ook saam dat daar ‘n groot aantal Grey verteenwoordigers in die Blou Bulle struktuur is, maar dit lyk of dit ook besig is om te verander, behalwe as dit nou net hierdie jaar was, wat verlede jaar se “af” Grey span nie insluit nie.

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  24. @kosie: Die dinge wat ek hier gese het, sal jy merk, het ek gerig op Cappie en sy filiaal. En in reaksie wat hy gese het. Ek het werklik groot bewondering vir spanne soos julle, Garsies, Menlo en Centurion, wat deurgaans teen die stroom moet swem, maar desnieteenstaande, presteer.Laat daar by jou geen twyfel daaroor wees nie.@Cappie: En nou? Ewe skielik so nederig? GCB het nog nooit, soos jy dit stel,”net opgedaag met die verwagting om te wen nie”. Hulle respekteer alle opposisie en dit is sekerlik n bydraende faktor tot hulle sukses.En onthou, spanne wat teen hulle te staan kom, berei hulleself voor vir die kragmeting maande voor die tyd en benader die wedstryd soos n oorlog. Dit is iets wat dikwels uit die oog verloor word. As Grey n swakker jaar beleef, natuurlik sal dit reflekteer die daaropvolgende jaar met spelers wie gekontrakteer is. T.s.v die “af” jaar in 2013, wil dit tog voorkom asof meer as net die eerste span spelers iewers gekontrakteer is.

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  25. and the wooden spoon winner is Border.Border u19 lost to the CW side this morning :oops: Grens 3rd team prop playing for the u19 side,nice i am so proud.

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  26. @BOG: Altyd nederig. Ek is steeds verbaas dat daar so baie spelers uit die Noordvaal by die Cheetahs geteken het, en niks van Grey by die Bulle nie. Dit is nie die norm nie, en wys of op verandering, of op slegs een unieke jaar. Tyd sal leer, en nou sien ek Adriaan Strauss het ook by die Bulle geteken, en my koffie is koud!

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  27. @Cappie: Ja, as dit so aangaan, is hulle binnekort die Grey Bulle, die Grey Sharks en die Vader behoed ons, die Blou Cheetahs. O ja,dan is julle nommer 1 ondersteuner, Steve Hofmeyer nog boonop ook n OG.@QC86: If the BRU is paying, that platter cannot be more than a pilchard

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  28. @BOG: @Cappie: Hehehehe. I “hate” Grey Bloem as much as I “hate” the Mountain goats from WP. But pukkit do I LOVE the Grey Bloem players at the Bulls! If I can put a monument up for Stegies at Loftus I would have done it yesterday. Just love Stegies, Flip etc. So glad about the rumours surrounding A Strauss, a beast of a no 2!! Coming to a champion team at last!! 8)

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  29. @all – I took the time to drive out to see the game at Harrismith…gosh was it dry and horrible playing conditions, aside from the weather…both teams played on the B field which was like a tennis court with the difference that you could probably walk of a tennis court with less grass burns…LOL – THE UNDER 19 Cheetah side is pretty good and for once they have a bit of size with the usual mobility to go with it…Ox is an absolute machine and the cheetahs deserved to win this game hands down…as far as the under 21s are concerned I was not impressed with the flyhalves that started for either teams, the cheetahs had an overweight, slow 10 that couldn’t kick a ball further than 20metres, missed two sitter conversions and looked out of his depth with reference to the pace of the game, he walked so much on the field that he ran out of space. As for the Sharks 10, when Cope came on with the other big names – Cameron Wright, Stefan Ungerer etc it looked much better and the free state boys had to defend like animals. Here I must commend the 10 that came on for the cheetahs as he kept them(the sharks) guessing as to what he was going to do, kick or run and even managed to set up a final try late in the second half. The one coach from the Cheetahs need to learn to calm down somewhat, it was noticeable how he went off at the match official a couple of times during the under 21 match, or, he should take his Cheetah team kit off and parade the side of the field under the cover of a spectator…Well done to all the teams for the spirit in which the games were played…

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  30. @boxkick: How did TJ Goddard the FS u19 scrummie go? Thought he was unlucky to miss out on WP CW selection last year.

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  31. @ploegskaar – I think he was pretty good, distributed well and he looks like a player who could develop, provided he is allowed to do so…

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  32. @boxkick: And what about the two Upington boys, Junior Burger and Jasper Wiese? I’ve watched them at CW and they were pretty good.

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  33. @BOG: “Eat your heart out”?…Marcel is nou wel n Grey Bok, maar almal weet waar hy sy rugby geleer speel het en wie van hom n Khomo en CW speler gemaak het…Ploeg ook maar self lekker ne!

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  34. @tzavosky: Yeah Junior Burger was very impressive at Craven Week. Hopefully he can standout as much at this and the next few levels up.

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  35. @boxkick: I don’t have teamsheets but I’m guessing the two Free State u21 flyhalves must be Pieter Jordaan and Ruan Potgieter who has been fast-tracked?

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  36. @beet – Pieter Jordaan played at 12 from the bench, I think it was clear for all to see last year that he is not a 10. The starting 10 was a blond guy and the other one had darker hair and was slightly taller…if I am not mistaken I think they are both Potgieters, but I could be wrong…I can tell you the guy that came on in the second half has a massive boot – he had a 22m drop out and dropped the ball from his 22m well into the 22m of the sharks…

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  37. @boxkick: Thanks. Yeah very interesting about Pieter Jordaan. He has been hoping around between those two positions (10-12) for a while now. It’s interesting that Paul Jordaan was a 12 for Grey in his matric year and as part of his fast-tracking at the Sharks he played 10 for the Sharks u21 in his first year out of school but now seems to have settled at centre for the seniors.

    Based on what you say I have to now assume that the 2 FS flyhalves must be Ruan POTGIETER (blonde) starting and Warren POTGIETER (darker hair). Interesting that both youngsters were originally at EG Jansen and I often wonder what would have happened in terms of 1st XV first choice had the latter stayed at the school. Warren Potgieter is a flyhalf in the mold of Louis Fouche, so there will always be opportunity for him at altitude due to his big boot. I’m surprised that Ruan Potgieter was not finding range with his boot because he seemed to have a big punt at school. Of the two Ruan seems to be a more natural ballplayer which is handy when tactics need to change during a game.

    EG Jansen flyhalves really have a tough time impressing you :mrgreen:

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  38. @BoishaaiPa: Ek het mos erkenning gegee. Soos dit maar oral en altyd gaan, bly dit mos die reel- waar hy klaar gemaak het en al die afrondingswerk gedoen is, die “finished product” ast ware. Ek dink ook nie GCB sal “OG-skap” op hom afdwing nie- di hoe beskou hy homself.@beet: It was either at U14 or U15 where Paul Jordaan was at 10 and Johan Goosen at 12

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  39. @beet – in your post lies the contradiction wrt EG Jansen flyhalves, if both originated from EG Jansen…There have been some good ones and some who spring to mind would be Dewalt Nel, Michael Holtshauzen. If the blond guy is Ruan, I would prefer to see him at 12, he simply doesn’t have the foot to play at 10, and with all and sundry believing that 10s should be able to clear well, its simply a skill he doesn’t have – not based on what I saw at Harrismith. I believe he wasn’t the kicker at school either. Where did the other guy go if he didn’t stay at EG Jansen? I seem to remember him playing Craven Week in 2011 for the Falcons

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  40. @boxkick: Junior played for Veldties (HS Duineveld). Saw him in action when they played Sentraal in Bloem last year and he really impressed. Most impressive on the day were the 2 kickers of Sentraal and Duineveld though, 10 & 12 if I remember correctly, taking shots from their own 10m lines and having no problems with distance.

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  41. @boxkick: Has a top notch skill-set, having been coached by Beresford and playing SA Schools 7’s. Certainly had the best break/kick/pass combo in WP last year IMO, hats off to Andre for picking him up.

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  42. @boxkick: Griquas CD CW 2013, Griquas CD Academy 2012 and Griquas 7’s. Once again, a great spot by Andre.

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  43. @ploegskaar – if memory serves me they were both good…like I said originally, the team looks well balanced and for once they have size…something they have been struggeling with at under19 level, specially last year. If these boys are managed correctly and professionally they will do well in the Currie Cup…the operative word is professionally though.

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  44. @boxkick: Unfortunately his time at EG and playing Valke CW as an u17 was the pinnacle of his SBR career. He moved to KZN and played in a system that did not suit his natural game, so was unable to make any impression. In fact he at times was maligned for his new team’s lack of success in a season in which they failed to live up to the preseason hype created due to the high number of returning players and a couple of new faces. Free State seemed to have thrown him a lifeline, so I’m happy for him that he’s still in the mix and has another year of u21 left after this one. But the compo at flyhalf in SA has heated up in recent seasons, so it will not be an easy ride by any means for any youngster in that possie.

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  45. @beet – I seem to remember some activity around “imports” at a certain school in KZN in 2011/12, was he part of that debacle…if he was, I can understand that that team didn’t perform…too much sh1t off the field results in poor performance as we all know. If Andre Tredoux is such a good scout, and he picked the lad up then there must be something good about him. As far as the compo on the position of 10 goes, it certainly has picked up quite well, if you look at 2012 under 18s, you will find among them Pollard, JL DuPlessis, Jaco vd Walt, Josh Stander, Kobus Marais, the guy from Affies that went to WP and Warren Potgieter, luckily for them the landscape in terms of playing overseas has opened up really well…I cant remember there ever being so many good 10s in one season…I just had a quick check, this Warren kid was incidentally the top point scorer in the Varsity Cup Young Guns for 2014, and I can only assume it was with the boot, and if so, there is one of the key assets a 10 should have – the ability to convert 5 pointers into 7 or 8 as is in the varsity cup compo and 0 into 3s or 2s as is in the varsity cup compo.
    He reminds me much more of a Marnits Boshoff type player than a Louis Fouche though.

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  46. @valke:

    Lions U/19 vs Free State

    1. Arnout Malherbe
    2. Pieter Jansen
    3. Clinton Theron
    4. Estiaan Enslin
    5. Mathew Le roux
    6. Dwayne Pienaar
    7. Dylan Vlok
    8. Vernon Petersen
    9. Johan Esterhuizen
    10. Shaun Reynolds
    11. Johan Mitchel
    12. Gerdus Van der walt
    13. Sampie Hearn
    14. Godfrey Ramaboe
    15. Abrie Reynols

    16. CJ Conradie
    17. Marius Greyvenstein
    18. Roelof Diederiks
    19. Marnus Erasmus
    20. Divan Jonck
    21. Derik Bezuidenhout
    22. Marco Holmes
    23. Arne Van Rendsburg
    25. George Lee Erasmus
    26. Erwin Harris
    27. Xander Cronje
    28. Jade Solomons

    Lions U/21 team vs Free State

    1st Half / 2nd Half

    1. Devon Martinus
    2. Rynand Snyman
    3. Pieter Scholtz
    4. Lourens Erasmus
    5. Jannie Stander
    6. Kwagga Smith
    7. Steph Vermeulen
    8. Jano Venter
    9. Ruan van Rensburg
    10. Jaco van der Walt
    11. PJ Walters
    12. Jaco Roodt
    13. Kock Marx
    14. Chad Mackay
    15. Ashlon Davids

    2nd Half

    1. Quintin Terblanche
    2. Siphatho Qinisile
    3. Nico du Plessis
    4. Bobby de Wee
    5. Jannie Stander
    6. Ramone Samuels
    7. Steph Vermeulen
    8. Kwagga Smith
    9. Christiaan Meyer/Steven du Plessis
    10. Brandon Hewitt
    11. Salom Gavor/Damian Engledoe
    12. Harold Vorster
    13. Jacques Nel
    14. Caswell Khoza
    15. Hanco Deale

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  47. @beet: I know you’ve reported on Varsity Cup on this site but I’m not sure if you have been following the annual USSA inter varsity competition being played down at Rhodes this week. As I understand it the competition is only open to genuine students (strictly applied) so it would be interesting to compare the make up of the teams to the respective universities Varsity Cup sides.

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  48. It was only warm up games gents….counts for nothing.
    just a thought…budgets also play a roll in scouting…Its easy to spot the top players but difficult to get them if you dont have budget.

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  49. @tredoux@fsrugby.co.za: So hats off to the guy (and his wife) that spotted Lood and all the others that started at FS and now play at the Bulls, Sharks, Stormers and Lions. Maybe the other Unions should sign him, will save them plenty of money…

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  50. @tredoux@fsrugby.co.za: Lots of good players in Pretoria who will jump at the chance of playing – because they will not get a chance at Bulls. And will do so without money!
    And yes congrats on your scouting.
    What players will be leaving FS at the end of this season? Hope you still have a team next year. :lol:

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  51. @meadows: It is very interesting and Tuks is not as impressive as during the Varsity Cup. Exciting rugby being played by the smaller universities BUT professionalism and boring rugby definately still very visible at the bigger Varsities.

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  52. @tredoux@fsrugby.co.za: And I know you guys had problems again this year with enough budget. Mr Keyter from Affies was high on your shopping list but funds not available to make it happen? Such a pity I think that Cheetahs and Keyter is a match made in heaven.

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  53. @Tjoppa: I’m actually surprised Mr Tredoux himself has not been lured away by a bigger union or a top school for that matter.

    In the ideal world with no influence of the Euro or GBP, the Super Rugby unions would each have an equal budget which would make teams sharper a looking for succession plan type recruiting and would also see talent being spread more evenly around.

    The Free State even without a big budget is a land of opportunity. If a player is willing to sacrifice short term rewards, he can go all the way to the top very rapidly while his peers struggle for game time at their big unions that have contracted numerous good players every year in the same position.

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  54. @beet: Not just game time , Beet- many other contributing factors. Speaking of the exchange rate. Even though you see and read about it every day, my son sent me a picture of a few coins in his hand- small change, which is R100. Then the reality of what has become of the Rand, really hits you and then you are reminded, yet again, why there is a flow of players from SA. And its going to get a lot worse with a profound impact on SA rugby. We must get use to it. Soon, I see that they will start leaving immediately after school.

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  55. @Tjoppa: I would think that Tuks would be one of the sides that looks most different to their Varsity Cup team given their history of flaunting the rules on eligibility in that competition. Notwithstanding that I see that they beat Maties yesterday to go through to the final against UJ, the defending champions, on Friday. NMMU are another team that I suspect looks very different and they are in the playoff for 7th and 8th place against Wits.

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  56. @beet: Beet more and more parents are realising that a “smaller” union is maybe better for the development and game time of his child. Mr Tredoux has also shown over the past years that he indeed cares for the boys he is involved with. A gentleman not like some other houjou’s we have to endure from some other big unions who see the boys as meat on a conveyor belt. Hats of to mr Tredoux and pray he does not fall for money and false gold.

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  57. @BOG: Ask him what he can buy with his hand full of coins. I promise you as much as we can with R 100. Stop please bugger off to your land of milk and honey. You do not belong on a blog like this. I want you to look at www://http:Thefinaldaydoomprophets.co.za you will definately be welcomed there.

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  58. @meadows: All of them not close to the standard set in Varsity cup. But as said before the big teams play a very boring professional game.

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  59. @Tjoppa: I cannot recall rattling your cage? Why so sensitive about the truth? Then you should rather stay away from “truthaboutsouthafrica”, because that will really get you going. Or http://www.imapoeppolwithmyheadupmyarse.co.za. Why do you think the players are going to the NH ? To endure unpleasant weather conditions and suffer? I dont have to ask my son what can be done with those few coins- Im very familiar with it. You are a denialist, but that is your ignorant right, but dont expect others to join you under the sand. I discussed the value of the Rand only insofar it has an impact on rugby players decision in leaving. So, get stuffed and believe me, its only a good education and upbringing which is preventing me from expressing myself more strongly.

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  60. @beet: Thx for the team lists Beet. Some bragging right for EGJ with 7 guys from last year in the squad.

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  61. @tjoppa – don’t fool yourself wrt scouts and or coaches…they are all the same…its like sending lambs to the slaughter house

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  62. @boxkick: Not true I can name a few scouts that I can vouch for. And mr Tredoux is one of them, another gentleman is Flippie, he may be a mountain goat but a lot of respect for him too. Just ask around

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  63. @BOG: Unfortunately I am a uneducated person with poor upbringing so will not be able to impress you Bog.
    Al I know is our financial problems is being felt all over the world. We do have some challenges yes but the positives by far outweigh the negatives.
    Wonder what you would have done if the goverment cut all state pensions by a big margin as well as make pensioners who enjoyed free medical to start paying for that to. Ask the Portugese.
    What about politicians accepting bribes. If you can read please look into the old French president.
    Can I carry on?? Poepol.

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  64. @TJOPPA – Mate, they are init for themselves…they leave behind much more scars than trophies…and I can think of a whole bunch of youngsters that can vouch for that…they are very quick to take recognition for those they were involved with that has made it, even if for just for luring them to a new union, but you never hear of the ones they didn’t like. Do yourself a favour and go ask the players that played under say Andre Tredoux – a good scout he may be, but a coach….I have my doubts…There is a reason why big unions don’t want “small” guys….its cause they are “small”

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  65. @Tjoppa: Andre, yes. Flippie, as in the one that spent 10 minutes at WP CW trials looking at Pieterse and said he didn’t know what the fuss was about. Ja right.

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  66. @boxkick: There are people that scout for free, without being known or asking for recognition, gratis en verniet and never laying claim to anyone.

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  67. @Tjoppa: Look, before you start eating humble pie for sympathy, I responded to a comment by Beet regarding the lure of the Euro and the GBP and as you so often do, went completely overboard in your response. So, go and wash your face in the Moreletta spruit, one mtr below the broken sewage pipe. But now that you are comparing- SA is indeed experiencing what the rest of the world is ++++. The cutting of pensions are coming- govt and other. And you cannot even begin to compare corruption in the NH with the wanton plunder in SA. Its 98% certain that the stock market will collapse- its a lottery now- and the Rand is in a dive. There are MANY other factors which i can add to the SA boiling pot, but for now, let me leave it there.But coming back to the point I originally made, before you lost control of your schoolboy temper, the exodus of players from SA will continue and even escalate. I said that 3 yrs ago, and you probably gave the same response – so nothing new.

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  68. @PLOEGSKAAR – my point exactly…the ones that do it for free and without seeking recognition do it for the player and not for themselves…the ones that are the first to tell the world – oh I saw him, brought him here and now he is a…. – those are the ones I don’t trust at all

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  69. The Cheetahs beat the Bulls at the Noordvaal. U/19 today. Score 66 – 33. Bulls were a bit lethargic

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  70. @Ploegskaar: Ploegie, any scout / agent that can’t see the value of Pieterse, the fullback of Bishops and WP, can’t be too clued up !!

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  71. @BuffelsCM: I put it to you, exactly. Maybe these guys should attend actual season fixtures. Maybe bring the CW selectors with them, then they can all actually watch a real game for a change?

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  72. @Tjoppa: Met jou tjoppa tredoux is n goeie scout met n oog vir rowwe talent en met sy budget tot sy beskiking moet hy seker maak hy vat raak, die teenoorgestelde kan gese word vir die manne daarbo in die noorde ene mnr werner hy kontrakteer tot6 in n posisie met sy budget so elke keer kom hy reg met die outjies wat hy het maar in die proses speel daar van hulle en die ander word weerhou want onthoudaar is baie so wanneer kry die ander speel kans , ek ken van die spelers persoonlik en na n jaar se beloftes sit so n speler met niks en moet sy eie heenkome vind. dit is waar die manne ophou rugby speel en talent gaan so verlore. Ek sal eerder gereken word n scout met n goeie oog as om n scout te wees wat talent weggooi

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  73. @boxkick: Exactly why I rate Andre, apart from the fact that the FS actually offers the contracted players playing opportunities as they are not overstocked in positions. Like the set-up at the Sharks as well, great strike rate at the moment. Think they have a keeper in AB Zondagh there, we had the same stand-outs at Tony Stoops when we compared notes, so he must know something :mrgreen: He seems to talk, eat, sleep rugby, that passion for the game gets a big thumbs up from me. Also think Bart has the same passion and drive at the Lions, another union that does not overstock and offers playing opportunities.

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  74. @Ploegskaar: I never said that Flippie is a know all for rugby talent. I mean he is a Stormers/WP supporter. I think after he had to climb ten steps up the pavillion he might loose some concentration for an hour or two. But as a person I can vouch for a man that is honest in his dealings. Only shortcoming maybe is after placing a boy at a union he loses “control” of the boy’s future.
    In Barts case also a true gentleman that did not fit in the Bulls way of thinking. Was before moving to the Lions in charge of Tuks rugby. But yes you are right a great person.
    The Sharks rugby is going a different way. They only contract a few boys and then lure a lot of talent to their Rugby Academy. Where the parents have to pay for their “education”. So low budget good results. BUT if they are good they will get opportunities. One thing to mention here is that size, to my amazement, is not the criteria they use to measure talent.
    The Bulls is the reason why the “TUKS” Academy is not working as they contract a 60+ junior players themselves and then expect TUKS to be succesfull in recruiting players for their academy even though everybody knows these boys have no chance in hell to represent TUKS at Varsity cup level or the Bulls.
    And Asblik regarding Werner my view on him is well known. He is an A%^@H()#. And even that is giving him to much credit.

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  75. @ploegskaar – in my view Andre should stick to scouting cause he aint no coach…he learnt his trade from Rudi Joubert (and we all know that story), followed him around for a while and now sits at the cheetahs in charge of young rugby talent…recipe for disaster…

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  76. @boxkick: Why do I have a feeling you are a parent of a Free State player who was overlooked for selection and now it’s payback time. :mrgreen:

    One could quite easily look at the scouts / coaches at many of the other unions and draw the same conclusions as you have. For a few years now, Paul Anthony has had the best squad at his disposal but only managed to secure his first u19 title in yonks last year. At every union there are junior players who feel they should be starters and/or be offered contracts etc, so yes there is disappointment and yes not everyone thinks every coach is good.

    Now in 2014 Tredoux has a good squad and his team carves up the Sharks 40-5. Yes it’s a preseason game but he is no stranger to beating the Sharks and a couple of the other big guns as well. He did it at the Leopards. That’s how he got the Free State gig – by being so good at the Leopards.

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  77. Mr Tredoux can not be that bad, his side HAMMERED THE SHARKS 40 -5. From what I heard from a Sharks u19 player, the Cheetahs young guns were very well drilled and did all the basics right!

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  78. @beet – quite off the mark with your initial feeling Beet…sorry to disappoint. Notwithstanding that, I get the feeling you might be a future parent paving the way…

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  79. @boxkick: Eish no lightie or relative or friend’s child or business associate to pave the way for unfortunately :) so I’m not guilty of any of those motives but I do follow u19 rugby as best I can and do remember a bunch of unknown Leopards boys beating a few big guns as well as beating FS while Andre was in charge which was what eventually made them realise they needed him.

    Okay if you are not a parent of a player then my next guess is either the agent of FS player that did not make the FS u19 team or maybe but less likely a FS coach of sorts. There has to have been a good reason for you to have gone to Harrismith and for expressing an adverse opinion about Tredoux, who many rate highly as a coach.

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  80. @beet: Also with no disrespect to all 2nd team parents because many are not this way but from my SBR sideline experience I have come across my fair share of what I call Matric 2nd Team Parent Syndrome. :mrgreen: This is when the 2nd team parent of a matric player invariable believes that his son should be starting for the 1st XV and as a result of it not being the case, the parent believes that the 1st XV coach is totally hopeless.

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  81. Hi Gents seeing as I’m being discussed just a response:
    As scout or coach:
    I give players a oppertunity, some players will make it others wont
    I always treat players fairly
    I try and mentor players that there is more to life then rugby
    Im a keen student of the game
    @boxkick I’m passionate so at times I can give the officials stick
    sorry…
    I dont opperate under a internet name
    as coach I have been successfull with lesser sides…
    I actually enjoy all your comments, and would love to meet up with boxkick and exchange ideas…
    enjoy your weekend.

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  82. @beet: Beet, my guess is that he has a son still in school, who has probably played in the shadow of these EG boys, eighter at Jansen or at Glenwood.

    Probably tried to “organise” a Cheetahs contract with Andre at some stage. Now that this has not worked, well, the comments speak for themselves.

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  83. Ek dink dit is afsydig en venynig om persone aanteval op n publieke forum veral as hulle onder skuilname uit hulle gate kruip.

    Hoekom as jy wil iets sleg se oor wie ookal dit sommer dan ook jou naam bekend maak nie. (seker te slapgat om dit te doen)

    Net n laaste punt het vir Andre Tredoux n klomp jate terug ontmoet met my oudste seun en moet eerlik wees hy is n baie proffesionele man en nie een van daardie irriterende in your face tipe werwer nie.

    Die Cheetah jnr spanne presteer heel skaflik dink ek persoonlik vir die gebroting wat hulle beskikbaar het.

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  84. @tredoux@fsrugby.co.za – me???? nothing at all…I am not an expert by any stretch of the imagination. I am an irrigation salesman

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  85. @Boxkick: Rather go and practise your boxkicks – better than typing things nobody else but yourself believe.
    Can you remember who won the u.20 Young Guns competition this year – with 14 men for almost 40 minutes. And who was the coaching team of the winning team?

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  86. @djou – mmmmmm…..no you know I really cant. How many games has the cheetah under 19s won in the past two years (2012/2013)???

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  87. @Boxkick: Young Guns = Varsity cup u.20. Not Cheetahs. UFS won, and they won with 14 players? Now tell me who was the “stupid” coaches who know nothing about coaching. And remember, they coached a team nobody gave a chance.

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  88. @djou – how could no one give any UFS team no chance? Its one of the top rugby playing university clubs in SA. Their young guns played in the semis since young guns started, I am not convinced you quite know what you talking about, and don’t say they had no chance against tukkies as they came within a point or two last year at Shimla park and narrowly lost this year at tuks in the round robin games…Jaco Swanepoel was the coach…do you have any idea how many games the cheetah under 19s have won the last two years?

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  89. @boxkick: not to many….my first year in charge we had 15 contracted players contracted by various players. 35 players at university trials
    We improved in second year my first contract group. And now with my two contracted groups we won yguns. I was involved as assistant coach.
    There were certain problems in our systems like accommodation that I sorted out, hence being able to recruit better players.
    There are still some slight things we can improve on and thats getting attention.
    If you want I can send you a detailed list of results when coaching Leopard u19 and schoolboy level…

    Just take my results against free State u19 for Leopards:
    Lpd 33- 22 Fs 2010 fs had 7 SA schools players
    LPD 56-23 Fs 2010
    Lpd 27 -6 Fs 2011
    Lpd 25 – 26 FS

    So then with Fs there are certain system problems we sorted out.

    But if you send me a mail address I can send you some facts that I cant discuss here….

    its always easy shooting in the dark if you dont have all the facts.
    Im certainly not proud of last two years, but im working my backside off… to straigthen things out.

    Would love 2 meet a u19 Head coach who attended 200 school games in a year.

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  90. @boxkick: Mnr Tredoux n mens kan sien boxkick kom van bfn af, ek is seker jy het sy pos gevat of hy wil graag jou pos he watook al sy gaan voort met die goeie werk, en hoe se hulle jy sal nie altyd almal tevrede kan stel nie en duidelik nie die ou nie

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  91. @ALL – After a long time simply just reading what people say on this blog, I finally decided to join. I have had dealings with Andre Tredoux and can vouch for the man. He approached us and gave us a no bullshit story as to what he can offer our son at the cheetahs and based on his honesty we decided to opt for the cheetahs. He certainly hasn’t had it easy at the cheetahs with regards to budgets etc but I believe this year he could make some waves.
    @beet – although I dont entirely agree with your comment with regard to our son reaching the pinnacle of his schoolboy career at EG Jansen, I understand that his team at Glenwood didn’t perform as expected, but you, as well as I know all the off the field stuff that went on that year and the terribly negative effect it had on the team, one day when we bump into each other next to a field we can have a lemonade and I will give you the full story as it happened, why it happened and when it happened – that way we can eliminate speculation for once and for all, maybe you can invite grasshopper too. If all and sundry could just understand what it takes and what some of these boys have to go through to try and make it in rugby in this country, we would talk less shit about them on blog like this and start debating issues that could improve rugby as a whole, too often have I seen derogative remarks made about players and schoolboys by people that more times than not have no idea of the sacrifices and commitment it takes to play rugby even at schoolboy level. Please lets keep things positive.

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  92. This is a general post for the benefit of all who are a bit worked up but don’t blog:

    I’d spoken to a few people over the last couple of days and found myself having to explain to them that the blog offers everyone including myself an opportunity to express an opinion and that no matter how strong as long as it’s within reason, it was up to other readers to decide whether they agreed or disagreed with this. I also have to say that when dealing with out of school players and officials there has to be a relaxation of the rules – a sort of transition to the big times of pro rugby where as one sees players and coaches often come in for stick (and praise) depending on results :mrgreen:

    Anyway there is a lot of support for Andre Tredoux which only seemed natural because he is such a well-liked coach. However I was disappointed that readers honed in on the negatives expressed by ONE blogger and simply overlooked the many favourable comments about the coach made by many others.

    Also with regards to the comments about agent Flippie DT, again everyone is entitled to have a say. On this thread we had a couple of bloggers who’d watched the Bishops fullback Gerard Pieterse, rating the youngster because he is a quality player with potential.

    At the same time in separate discussions, I agreed with two parents who’d had dealing with Flippie who felt strongly opposed to him being described as clueless (possibly indirectly done) simple because he did not see what fuss was about when others with rugby knowledge saw great potential in this particular Bishops player. What we have here is a classic case of a difference in opinion on the ability to ID talent – not fact end of story stuff.

    For the benefit of Flippie I would like to say if anyone has a proven track record of identifying and representing amongst the best youngsters in SA, it’s the USG under Flippie’s guidance. This year alone they have one Eduan Keyter and one Morne Joubert on their books and I stand to be corrected but the u17 Kwaggas fullback Corne de Klerk might also be represented by the agency. To hand pick players of this calibre along suggests Flippie is a man in the know.

    The Bishop’s fullback is an opportunity for another agent in an industry in which you can just as easily miss with what looks like a sure bet coming out of school, as you can hit with a player that is overlooked.

    I would love to read a list of those who had overlooked the opportunity to represent Willie le Roux along the way. I first watched Willie as a flyhalf for Boland and from there he joined the Griquas and even played on the wing for the Cheetahs when Hennie Deniller (a SBR star player) of all players was first choice fullback- so it’s been a journey to the top via some small unions and positional adjustments for one of the players considered to be the best in his possie in the world today.

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  93. @JohanP: Hi Johan. No ill intended. I stick by my opinion which is based on WP playing at Valke CW as an u17 and then not being picked for KZN CW as an u18. Well done to him for showing the self belief and getting somewhere. As you said it’s definitely not an easy road. Unlike other occupations its a short career opportunity offered only to the best of the best.

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  94. @Beet: the reason I honed in on Boxkick is simple. When lies and unfounded rumours are told often enough, it becomes the truth for the ill informed. We have seen this happen over and over agin on this blog. But I have to agree with you, we should rather focus on the positive.
    @Boxkick: I was writing about the final, not the tournament – and will refrain from getting personal with you.

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  95. Bad loss for the Sharks this evening! Lack of intensity, especially at the breakdown. On a positive note, Thomas is going to be a GREAT!!!!

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  96. @RBugger: Great great great to hear that!!!! Not about the Sharks of course – but about Thomas. Would you care to elaborate?

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  97. @Djou: “When lies and unfounded rumours are told often enough, it becomes the truth for the ill informed.” Wow – don’t we know that!!!!!

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  98. @beet: One misunderstood comment taken out of context can make one assume somethings. I think this is a classic case of such circumstance.

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  99. @JohanP: I agree with your comment wholeheartedly Mr P. If some of the sideliners would actually realize what is going on the modern rugby arena and the sacrifices they go through they would not post half of their comments.

    Unfortunately and i have stated this earlier is getting pretty out of hand when people start making personalized statements on certain individuals players, couches etc etc.

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  100. And then my last comment on or directed at this person Boxkick… Its apparent that whenever anything about EG Jansen or any EG Jansen player features where ever he has a negative comment to make.

    What ever your reason agenda are f%*^%*^ off and back off…………..

    Get the facts and the figures and then make INFORMED COMMENT or refrain from commenting.

    Its uncalled for and created emotional reactions that not required.

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  101. Not going to go back and read everything that was said regarding Ruan Potgieter…

    But I’d imagine the Cheetahs would be the best place for him?

    Unfortunately it does sometimes come down to small things like whether a coach likes you or the bounce of the ball on a couple of occasions that could mean the difference between being cast aside or continuing on as a professional.

    Game time is key, so go (to a Super Rugby franchise) where you are going to get plenty and establish yourself with a franchise who will promote your career. He seems to be the only flyhalf of note at the Cheetahs (U19) so I’d imagine he’ll get plenty of opportunities. Only others I can think of that would have ensured him the proper opportunities would be the Lions and the EP Kings, but why go to franchises which are in constant disarray?

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  102. Bit of research for you beet:

    George Young – Merensky High School (Tzaneen, Limpopo)
    Chris Thompson – The King’s School Robin Hills (Jo’burg)
    Joshua Bragman – Yep England, Hartlepool to be exact, but comes from Amanzimtoti (Durban).
    Jacques Nel – Diamantveld is correct – previously went to Hartswater.

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  103. @tredoux@fsrugby.co.za: Andretjie…….jys n great ou maar jyt my ore van my kop af gepraat daar by Wildeklawer…..die Maandag…….ek het probeer konsentreer op die Oakdale pa wat so tekere gegaan het maar jyt my te besig gehou.

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  104. @vatikaki: Thanks Vati. Love your work.

    Apart from White joining the Sharks from the WPRI, Reece-Edwards is also back.

    Also I thought Kelvin Elder was heading to the Lions so surprised to see him back in Durban.

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  105. @vatikaki: Next week’s WP u19 team announcement will be an interesting one.

    One of the places up for grabs is no.10. Last year Ernst Stapelberg of EP started the season as the hot favourite to play SA Schools. In the end the Ermelo and Pumas 10 surprised many by gaining SAS selection. However based on Theron’s u20 squad training sessions Stapelberg seems to be the favoured 10 once again.

    Just a few days and counting…

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  106. @beet:

    Regarding Kelder, he was playing for some Maties team earlier in the year and also has a twitter post up about “Training with the Stormers”.

    So what he’s up to is a complete mystery to me.

    What’s the story with Reece-Edwards returning?

    @beet:

    Interesting indeed.

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  107. @vatikaki: Reece-Edwards actually played in the warm-up for the Sharks against the FS u19. It’s easy for those who don’t know the 2 to well to mistake R-E for McHardy, so at first I thought it was a case of mistaken identity but turns out its true, R-E back in KZN.

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  108. @Greenblooded: good work rate, always went forward with ball in hand, in fact, he was a handful going forward, taking at least 2 men to bring him down. Scramming was excellent, when he came on, he made a big difference in the scrum. I predict the next Os here, very exciting prospect

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