The Gauteng English-medium schools have won the inaugural Grogper Cup. They bounced back to beat their KwaZulu-Natal opponents 7-6 in a closely contested competition.
The Cup came down to a sudden death match on Goldstones, the home of Maritzburg College in KZN. Gauteng’s representatives Pretoria Boys High continued to produce good form this side of the July school holidays and recorded a decisive 30-16 win against the hosts. The rest is history. Well done Gauteng! KZN leaves you with these fortelling words: “NEXT YEAR!!!”
All that’s left now is this space below reserved for Roger’s winners acceptance speech followed by Grasshopper’s re/assessment of the health of the Gauteng English schools rugby.
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| DATE | SCHOOL | SCHOOL | GP | KN | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 16/03/13 | St Davids | 17 | 6 | St Charles | 1 | |
| 01/04/13 | St Albans | 26 | 25 | Hilton | 1 | |
| 13/04/13 | Pretoria BH | 25 | 23 | M. College | 1 | |
| 13/04/13 | Jeppe | 33 | 24 | Northwood | 1 | |
| 15/04/13 | Northwood | 15 | 11 | St Benedicts | 1 | |
| 20/04/13 | Westville | 22 | 17 | Pretoria BH | 1 | |
| 04/05/13 | KES | 16 | 22 | Westville | 1 | |
| 04/05/13 | Parktown | 33 | 5 | DHS | 1 | |
| 11/05/13 | St Charles | 16 | 37 | St Albans | 1 | |
| 18/05/13 | M. College | 30 | 8 | KES | 1 | |
| 18/05/13 | St Stithians | 0 | 62 | Kearsney | 1 | |
| 25/05/13 | St Johns | 19 | 55 | Michaelhouse | 1 | |
| 27/07/13 | M. College | 16 | 30 | Pretoria BH | 1 | |
| TOTAL | 7 | 6 |
FAQ: “Why is Glenwood not part of the Grogper Cup?”
Algemene wanopvatting (Common misconception): “Die Hoerskool Glenwood is nou ‘n suiwer Afrikaanse skool en die Grogperbeker is slegs vir Engelse skole!”
Correct Answer: Although Glenwood is still very much a 100% English-medium school, it did not play any matches against English schools from Gauteng in 2013.
@Grasshopper: Toppy now on the ballot!! Cummon Greenies – let’s get Toppy up there!!
http://www.saschoolsports.co.za/
@Grasshopper: great sentiment about his contribution to boys lives, not dissimilar to Skonk.
@GreenBlooded: Yep, I bet he will remember you too with a few clues. I just say my surname and he goes, oh yes you the lazy bugger lock/flank in the 90’s……you had great potential but never reached it…..hahah. His best coaching year must have been 1979, some Glenwood legends in that year…
@Grasshopper: I was in his English class for 2nd and 6th form. His class was always chaotic – yet we somehow got through the syllabus, had a lot of fun and learnt about life at the same time. Absolute Legend. Will make a point of going and saying hello on Saturday. Great man that.
@GreenBlooded: Toppy should be there having coached over 30 years of Glenwood teams, Varsity club teams and still coaching late into his 60s. Not just for the rugby skills coached but the life skills taught. He helped many a confused young teenage boy over the years and seems to remember every one too. A legend, the man who coined the term ‘green machine’ in the 70s. A Marist Old Boy but Glenwood man through and through, just second to Skonk in KZN….
@Redblack White: Well the tribe seems to be speaking – both College men way out in front – even well ahead of Jake White.
Very surprised not to see Glenwood’s Toppy Hortop on the list. Not saying he would win – but he should definitely be on the list.
@Gungets Tuft: you can bet your Valiant on that one.
Here’s a vote that will definitely test your loyalty. Best school coach ever, as if it’s a real competition .. really
http://www.saschoolsports.co.za/
@Vleis: Yes, that’s the one
@Redblack White: 8)
@Gungets Tuft: How about this one?
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10904666
@Vleis – “does all our legal work for us” – by this of course I did not mean MC , I meant the business I am involved in – don’t want to spread any “blasphemous rumours”
@McCulleys Workshop: Don’t think so – similar vein though.
@McCulleys Workshop: 1.Yes, if you think you are or want to be taken seriously as a prominent rugby school in the future, if you want to draw the cream and if you want to enhance your reputation.
2.Yes, there is enormous commercial and advertising value in being associated with a successful rugby brand.
Fortunately there is still enough unrecognized talent that annually floats in the flats between the Winelands schools and the Big Four from the South. The problem is that some schools apparently have a poor or non-existent talent identifying program in place, while one specific person at one specific school could/would not even recognize a great opportunity when presented with a gift wrapped package deal! The latter was due to arrogance though, arrogance that will cost him and his school dearly in the future, going on the current season’s dismal results.
@Redblack White: Eish!
@McCulleys Workshop: This quote by Nigel hurst sunk my heart:
“Having been involved in education for more than 30 years I wonder whether other people who are influential, such as principals, are putting the interests of themselves and the reputation of their school before the kids. The kids have to come first – they are the reason we have schools, to educate them and help them become better people.”
@Vleis – hahahahahaha – the “computer nerd” in the photo is an attorney and does all our legal work for us
Can’t wait to tell him he was ID’d as a computer nerd – bwahahhahahaha
@McCulleys Workshop: WOW!WOW!WOW!!!
@McCulleys Workshop: Is that how the scholarships work at MH – i.e. the fees are R180k, but the chaps get 50% of R200k? I assume that is to cover all the incidentals like tours, books, outings, stationary, medicine, clothes, etc, etc?
@Ploegskaar: Ploeg, 1. is it a gap worth bridging? 2. Is it sustainable?
@Gungets Tuft: you mean this article : http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10904307
@Gungets Tuft:
@Vleis: No, sorry. I was waiting in the background, ready to tow the okes car, cosYcos he left his lights on …
@Vleis: In the WC the reputation/tradition of schools such as Boishaai, Paarl Gym and Paul Roos certainly accounts for the bulk of their annual intake of talented players, and not “poaching” or “buying” which is the common misconception. Alarmingly, in addition to the mentioned widening gap between Tier 1 and Tier 2 schools, a gap has in my opinion also opened between these three powerhouses and the rest of the Tier 1 schools in the WC of late, which will hopefully serve as a timely wake-up call for those left in their wake.
@Gungets Tuft: Are you the compouter nerd in the photo GT?
@Vleis: Force Beet to publish the story I just mailed him, send by a blog reader to me. Is about New Zealand, scholarships, and the pooling of talent in a few prominent schools
@Ploegskaar: True, and most schools do not even offer one rugby scholarship per annum let alone have a significant programme. Of course, there are some schools that do have significant rugby scholarship programmes…and there are others that have built up such a good name in rugby that pupils want to go there regardless of whether they are offered a scholarship or not. In the case of the latter schools, having a BE helps as it allows the school to access more talent.
I think that the gap between the top rugby schools and the rest is going to continue to widen in future.
@Vleis: This is how we spend our money …
http://www.collegefoundation.co.za/index.php/component/k2/item/148-foundation-kicks-off-it-upgrade
@Vleis: I think you have a point about how the BE is used. College use their primarily for out-of-town boys from the farming areas. Lots of boys from Underberg – Kokstad/Matat- Creighton – Ixopo etc. That has changed slightly in that, like my son, there are boys from Durban, Hillcrest, Ballito etc – but many of those are Old Boys sons where we just want them at College. It very, very seldom happens that a PMB boy is in the BE, three from my sons year were asked to leave when their folks moved to PMB.
I know that Northwood and Glenwood admit Durban boys to the BE – I know boys that lived a 7-iron from Northwood that lived inthe BE, at least 3 boys in the Glenwood BE that live in Durban North (sons of Old Boys). So, the College BE is not used as a house for sportsmen – that happens naturally when College recruit from out of town, or the many OBs sons. Otherwise, good old farming stock (that which doesn’t now go to House and Hilton). All that said, I high proportion of boarders form the 1st, 2nd and A teams. Obviously some scholarships in there, but I think no more than about 6 sports scholarships a year.
Don’t know the answer, just have the feeling that the more well off you are, the better opportunity your kid has to excel, in everything. Doesn’t mean a poor kid can’t break in, it is just harder. To break in at a private school, it has to be scholarship.
@Vleis: R200,000 pa x 5 = R1 mill plus R200,000 for inflation over the 5 years = R1.2 mill x 50%.
@Vleis: You have pointed out the crux of the matter in your last sentence, “but then said school will also need to have a significant rugby scholarship program as well.” Boland has 339 learners, who are all boarders, and offers no alternative winter sport to rugby.
Accordingly they put up to 285 boys (19 teams) out per weekend, but these playing numbers seldom translate to successive successful years, as it does not guarantee depth. Sure, they have a wonderful camaraderie, pride and guts aplenty and are mostly just a bit bigger and stronger than their peers due to the out-doors life and physical nature of schooling, but many a Boland season has been scuppered due to injuries and this can only be remedied by that elusive “significant rugby scholarship program”.
@McCulleys Workshop: How does 5 @ a cost of 50% equate to R600,000 each? The MH fees are R180k per annum, so that equates to R450k per student for five years….or am I missing something?
@meadows: @Gungets Tuft: I agree with both of your your points, which are articulate and interesting.
I think that Grassy is also confusing BE size with rugby strength because he is basing his views partly on how things work at his alma mater and their rivals down the road (DHS). These schools generally use their BEs to house top rugby players, whereas boarding schools like MH, etc use their BEs to house the general normal distribution of kids that attend the school.
Of course, a BE does enable a school to access top rugby players from out of town, but then said school will also need to have a significant rugby scholarship programme as well.
@Gungets Tuft: Ok, join the dots: PBHS – 300 boarders (and 1500 total, rated as the largest Model C in SA), Grey High – 144 boarders, KES – 285 boarders, Paarl BH – 320 boarders, Maritzburg College – 390 borders, Paul Roos – 246 borders, MHS – 550 borders, I can’t get the correlation, sorry.
MHS sports scholarships 2014 – 5 @ a cost of 50%, so R600,000 each – total spend R3 mill
MHS all rounders scholarships 2014 – 3 @ a cost of 30%, so R360,000 each – total spend R1 mill
Total sports orientated spend per annum – R4 mill for 8 scholars (I’m sure they only buy rugger players and aren’t really into the hockey stuff etc).
@Gungets Tuft: I agree that the “normal” distribution can be skewed by different socioeconomic demographics.
Relatively small schools like Boland Landbou, Marlow and even Paarl Gim prove this point regularly – I remember being amazed a few years back at the size of the pack that Boland Landbou were able to field with only 300 odd boys.
I’m not entirely sure that the skew is in favour of the privates though
@Greenblooded – LOL – yip , does roll off the tongue much better I agree.
Funny though, once they get through all the priveleges, when they go to varsity (and if they are at res), they are back at the bottom again. My guy who matriculated at College last year tells me the seniors refer to him as a “JAR”, as in short for Jaar, basically because he is a first year. So basically the same effect – JAR means fetch tea, bring food, get beer, drive me home etc. BUT , he’s loving it, cut his big boy teeth at College for sure!!!
@meadows: I lean more towards Meadow’s view about this, with one rider. I think that the socio-economic circumstances of the House/Hilton/Kearsney boys lends itself more to rugby, rather than the other sports like basketball, soccer etc. It means that the 2/10 really talented rugby player demographic becomes more like 3/10 (but nothing like 8/10 as Grassy seems to imply). I don’t believe that they offer that many more bursaries than Govt schools, and in the case of Westville and Glenwood, a whole LOT fewer.
However – they do compete a lot better for the high end players. I can tell you that the Doops, MRE and quite a few of that Dream Team era had applied at College and Westville (and probably Glenwood), but chose the Kearsney offer instead. While it might have had something to do with the vision portrayed of the continuation of Michael Dicks’ Dream Team, in general I don’t believe government schools can ever compete with private school bursaries – the perception that they are better can not be easily dispelled.
I do know one kid that received offers from Hilton last year still went to College, but it had a lot to do with the fact that his older boet is already at College and the parents have had a view of what College offers, and the life skills they get there. There are always those who could afford to send their kids anywhere, but choose their Alma Mater, so it does happen, I know of quite a few at College.
I would expect the privates to be stronger in the “high kit and facility cost” sports like squash, tennis, golf (swimming??) Almost 100% of them would have had access to those sports from very young, while 50% of Govt school kids would not have had that.
It is an interesting study for someone that has time on their hands, or does this sort of thing for a living. Nice thesis for a Masters in Sport Science … 8)
@Grasshopper: Your logic is flawed for the simple reason that any group of boys should generally have a normal distribution of characteristics. Playing rugby well requires certain fundamental physical and mental attributes. If we assume that in any normal group 10% of the boys have what it takes to play rugby well and another 10% to be decent players etc the talent pool in a school of 1200 will be double that of a school with half that number. The fact that about 300 odd boys at either school may play rugby is irrelevant – the bigger pool will have twice as many “better” players to choose from which equals depth and less susceptibility to injuries. At a bigger school the marginal and weaker players just don’t play.
IMO this is why a school like MHS, where most of the boys do play sport, are consistently weaker in the lower teams – C,D,E etc. At a bigger school many of these boys would either not make a team or play for a lower one. At a boarding school they play rugby because that is what one does even if they are totally unsuited to the game. I wont labour the point here but don’t discount the impact of hockey at schools like MHS and Hilton on the available pool of sporting talent.
I do agree that the boarding school environment allows for more opportunity to hone skills which helps a smaller boarding school, when it has a year with sufficient talent, to be competitive and helps make the bigger boarding schools – Grey Bloem – so good. However in a year like the current one at MHS that simply doesn’t have sufficient talent all the after hours touch rugby and coaching in the world is not going to help much.
@RBugger: Cost probably. Bringing the entire school down from the Big Smoke can’t be cheap. Westville and College already every year is probably more than enough.
Why do PBHS(Pretoria) not play Kearsney anymore? In my day, this was an annual fixture and one where results were very even… Why play Saints?? With all due respect, they are just not good enough
@Redblack White: Yes – “2ND FORMER” rolls so much easier of the tongue than “STANDARD SIXER” or “GRADE 8’er” doesn’t it!! I believe in Nathan House it has been shortened to “FORMER” – the standard call for a slave to polish shoes/make bed/get water/…ad infinitum for the house prefects. Love it!!!
@Redblack White: Give your boy another year, then the ability to shout “3rd Former!!!” is going to make his day. Doesn’t mean he has to, just that he can
@Grasshopper – good info – thanks.
@Greenblooded – also wondered why they started high school in 2nd form as opposed to 1st – makes sense now
Either way, all I know is that one thing any 13/14 year old dreads is a booming voice shouting : “2nd former!!!!”
@HORSEFLY NO.1: History of ‘Forms’; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_form
Yep, DHS uses the form logic as well. Remember the excuse for anything a matric did or said to lower grade students being “form privelege”, a term which I too used once I got to 6th form :D
@Far Meadows: schools rugby strength is related to the number of boarders there. Grey College has many boarders hence their sporting strength. At schools like Glenwood and DHS the boarding houses always win the inter house sport. The boys have ample time to train, play touch and improve their skills. They also tend to be the boys on sports scholarships from around the country. MHS and Hilton being boarding only allows the boys to build friendships, understanding of each others playing styles etc, it helps to gel the teams. Also the % of boys playing rugby is far higher at all boarding schools. My point is Glenwood have 1250 boys but only 450 play rugby so the size of the schools means little, we probably have only 50 to 100 more boys playing rugby so not a huge depth difference… Make sense?
@Grasshopper: I’m not sure that I understand the logic of how MHS with 550 boarders should be as strong as a school like Glenwood who only have 250 rugby playing boarders. Please explain a bit more as just don’t get it.
Forms have been around for years and I think originates in the UK. Any KZN school over 100 years old used the term. 2 formers are the lowest of the low fags and 6th formers the kings.
@Vleis: On the subject of small Jhb prep schools the 2007 and 2008 MHS sides we were discussing above both had a good few Pridwin boys in their number. At that time Pridwin only had one class per standard.
@GreenBlooded: Thanks guys, makes sense now
@meadows: Thanks for that. Good thing they beat the Poms!!
@Roger: Yep, my son went to a little school in Jhb with just 31 boys in his grade, but five of those boys were on the field when St. Alban’s u15A played Hilton u15A this year.
In addition to scholarships awarded for excellence in sport, academics, etc, there are many closed scholarships offered to kids from specific Jhb prep schools to attend high schools outside Jhb – e.g. St Andrew’s College has two for kids from St Peter’s Prep, one for kids from the Ridge, etc.
@Playa: At my son’s school and a few others, form 1 is grade 8 – i.e. old std 6.
@Playa: I think it is because traditionally, Std 5 (Gr 7) was traditionally the first year of “high school” back in the day. So the high school years were from Form 1 to Form 6. The “old” government schools in KZN use it – Glenwood and College for sure and I’m sure DHS probably use it as well.
@Gungets Tuft: @Playa: ….instead of grade 8 being Form 1 that is?
@Gungets Tuft: Ahh! Thanks for that.
Why start on form 2, may I ask?
Sorry for the 3rd degree.
@Gungets Tuft: unless you’re at MHS who use “Blocks” A to E
@Vleis:
2008 results requested as i have them – apologies if any errors;
George Campbell – pre season at College – W 45-3
Grey PE festival
Middelburg W 38-7
Graeme College W 25-6
Grey PE L 11-18
Vryheid festival
Gen Hertzog W 71-0
Sarel Cilliers W 31-3
Harmony Academy W 30-12
DHS W 16-7
Hilton (A) W 21-18
Kearsney W 58-30
M College W 36-16
St Johns W 41-16
Northwood W 74-0
Glenwood D 24-24
St Charles W 21-6
George Campbell W 68-0
Wellington College W 24-21
Westville W 26-8
Hilton (H) W 31-16
@Playa: Grade 8 is 2nd Form, up to Matric (Grade 12) which is 6th Form. Might be a KZN thing, or even just a College thing. Think that Glenwood might also use the term?
@Gungets Tuft: I share your sentiments 100%.
@Redblack White: Could you guys please explain the term “form”…2nd former/3rd former, i.e. it’s equivalent in “standard” or “grade”.I remember it being used by everyone in my young days growing up in PMB, never heard elsewhere after we moved.
@Gungets Tuft – will do – thanks.
3rd former – dayboy – we live here in PMB.
@Redblack White: Mail me – Gungetstuft(at)gmail.com – need to invite you to the College Superbru comp for the Currie Cup.
What grade is your son in – boarder I assume?
@Roger: Not knocking House, Hilton, Kearsney etc. I have mates with their boys there, respect them all. I just don’t agree with the perception that they are so much better than the top government schools, or that they do a better job of preparing their boys for life after school. My daughter is in 1st year varsity, so she socialised with boys in matric from 2011 and 2012, from House (a few), Kearsney (lots!!) and Clifton (too many!!). I see them whenever she is home, and to be blunt, they manage no better or worse than their peers from Northwood, College and Glenwood – the other schools of her friends. My nephew matriculated at College last year, so I see the progress of all his boarder mates, and they are almost all absolutely styling. The government schools got them into varsity (Cape Town, Stellies, Rhodes, UFS, Potch, Tuks) and they are no different to their private school peers.
My point – if parents feel that they are giving their kids a better start by going private, they are wrong (unless the boy needs special tuition – then they are likely to be better off in classes of 18-20). If they are following tradition, brilliant. That’s what I did, my boy could be over the road at Northwood but for that, but the tradition makes him proud.
Still think, in many cases, that parents make scholarship decisions based on the “value” of the tuition fees. College – R80k vs Kearsney R145K, Kearsney must be better. This is a well worn subject, not going there again. 8)
@Vleis: I think that may have been 2009 – not a bad MHS side who I think finished ranked in the top 20. They won narrowly against Hilton at home and then surprised all with a large margin win at Hilton. They had a few CW reps including the captain Cameron Lindsay and Reef Nakin as well as WP and SA Schools and SA U20 centre Pat Howard.
2007 won both Hilton games by 40 odd pt margins and 2008 won by a big margin at home but, in the tradition of the derby, scraped in by a couple of points at Hilton.
@Vleis: its very sobering to see the amount of top prep school sportsmen in Jhb at the top private prep schools who end up at Hilton, House, Kearsney and St Andrews. I refer to schools like The Ridge, Pridwin, St Davids, St Peters and even St Johns and St Stithians battle to hold onto their stars. In some cases they are following the family traditon, in other cases its bursaries and in yet others its just that those schools are fantastic schools and attract the best. In my sons schools, mentioned above, 5+ grade 7’s are headed for House, Hilton and Kearsney – all of them on bursaries (and its not like the parents cant afford it) as well as at least another 5+ headed there as full fee paying students – all top sportsmen or scholars
@Redblack White: K R O’Connor – loose forward in that 1985 side, I think, with Ross and Slater. So says my copy of Jimeloyo-Ji!!
Described here as a “devastating marauder”. Made Natal Schools in 1985
@Playa: Yes, 1991 was the 9-13 result. Seem to have got my years all skew esor. It was 92 that they lost the 3 matches, including you guys, but unbeaten in KZN. 91 was an ordinary year, lost 7 that year.
@Gungets Tuft – Ja those old boys with kids at House – I actually know one of the dad’s and gave him a bit of kuk about it – but true – all perceptions.
Incidentally, I am not an old boy, but have been a College supporter for as long as I can remember. Two boys at College though, the eldest was with the Kriel’s last year. I desperately wanted to come to College in my high school year – but the old man insisted” Los die Engelse”.
Few years later Kenny O Connor goes to College – after being at Afrikaans junior school – saw how well he did – not sure of his matric year though.
Would be good to see a family tree – last year at my eldest’s OB induction, I heard some bloke was a 5th generation bloke – absolutely incredible.
@Redblack White: Yes, Reegans dad. The grade 8’s this year, in boarders, has 10 Old Boys sone. Last year was about the same. In 2011 there were about 8 boarders who have Old Boy dads, my son one of two 4th generation College Boys that I know of.
Sadly, there are quite a few from that era (and all the other years too I suppose) who have decided to go to House, Kearsney and Hilton. Three son’s of College men in the House 1st team this year. Perceptions of government schools I guess, despite College’s very good academic record and high acceptance rates at Universities.
Must get my act together and see if the school has the “family tree” links for the boys each year.
@Gungets Tuft – Kevin Smith – is that Reagan’s dad? Amazing how many old boys’ kids are now also playing at College – I know more from the 85 team – Taylor and Glover – boys playing 15b and 15a this year (although Taylor got a bad injury against KES I think)
@Redblack White: Yes, Stransky was 84 and 85. 85 and 86 was Jeremy Thompson. Also in 85 was Kevin Smith, currently 1st Team coach along with Strudders.
@GreenBlooded: 13-15. We also lost to GCB 20-24 and Hilton 4-6.
@Redblack White: What year was Jeremy Thompson’s? Always rated that guy.Just unfortunate he played in an era where SA was not short of talent in midfield.
@Gungets Tuft – ’85 – was that not Stransky’s year? Saw the full video of that year’s College/Grey Bloem match not so long ago. Awesome
@Gungets Tuft: One of us could be wrong, but I have that Dale beat College 13-9 in ’91 at Dale, and again in ’92, 12-10 at College.
@Gungets Tuft: Glory years indeed – co-inciding with my years at Glenwood. Still have night-sweats sometimes. There was that one marvellous occasion in ’86 where we beat you narrowly on Dixon’s in the last minute with a heart stopping drop-goal. I think the whole school were given the following Friday off as a celebration.
@meadows: I wonder if I watched one of those teams. I popped down to MH with the famdamily about about four to six years ago to stay with a mate who lives close to MH. It was the H v MH game at House and if I remember correctly MH were down for most of the game, but won fairly narrowly in the end. What year was that?
@Roger: 1985 would have done you no good anyway. College were unbeaten that year, including GCB, St Stithians, Rondebosch, Bishops, KES, PBHS. Probably the best team College has ever produced, along with 92 and 2002.
In 1991 they lost 3, 15-20 to GCB away, Paarls Boys 14-27 away and Dale 10-12 at home.
1992 was a spectacular year, unbeaten, even on a UK tour of 7 matches.
1981 – 1990 College played 166, won 152, drew 5 and lost 9. Losses were to GCB (86, 87), Glenwood (83, 86), DHS (89), Paarl Gym(90), Bishops(87), Queens(84), Hilton(86). Unbeaten in 81, 82, 85, 88 against teams including GCB, Grey High, Queens, Jeppe, KES, Bishops etc.
Glory years.
@Gungets Tuft: I wasn’t going to post this – but then I just couldn’t help myself.
Read earlier on that you were not so keen to venture to Chunnisberg to hand over the prize. In the spirit of the Grogper cup I think you should do exactly that – get up there and dish out the Grog per Cup !!!
ok – I’m killing myself now
@Vleis: I can probably get them. I know aside from the traditional KZN fixture list the 2008 side played 3 games at the Grey PE festival in PE losing only to Grey. One of the other games was Middelburg. The also played at the Vryheid festival and produced with their opposition one of the best games of running schoolboy rugby I’ve seen against the Harmony academy.
They also played and beat Wellington College who were out here after having won the daily Mail Cup in the UK – wellingtons only loss on that tour I believe
@Roger:
@Gungets Tuft: Quite right College on Goldstones was the 2007 sides only loss – against expectations (how often have MHS been able to say that over the years about a visit to Goldstones! – classic case of all the CW “stars” thinking they just had to pitch up. No excuses but they were missing Lambie and Ross Cronje to the SA Schools game and those two were very influential in that teams pattern.
The blond twins were the Cronje boys, Ross the scrummie and Guy who played flyhalf and captained the CW side that years – both went on to the Sharks and are now at the Lions. (Guy in fact played 9 in last fridays game in PE against the Kings) The centres were that years CW centre pairing of Murray de Bruyn, who went on to the Lions before injury cut short his career in U21’s, and Xillan van Rooyen who chose academics over rugby post school. Back three were Lambie, Ruan Combrinck (Lions) and Mark Richards (Sharks and Bok 7’s) – best schoolboy back three I’ve seen at that level.
@Roger: I think over the long run, the Natal schools should come out tops against the English speaking Gauteng schools as:
a) they have access to all the top players in Natal (souties, dutchies, etc), whereas most of the top Gauteng players land up at Affies, Monnas, Klofies, etc.
b) they poach many of our top players – e.g. GW raiding the Pretoria larders, or the likes of MH, Hilton, Kearsney, etc raiding the top gr 7 sportsmen in Gauteng. Hell, they are now even raiding the E Cape cupboards!
c) they play rugby in primary school, which is not the case with 90% of the English speaking prep schools in Gauteng…but this is slowly changing.
That said, while they should win more Grogper Cups than they lose, I’m sure that they won’t underestimate the Gauties…like CapeMan seems to do (with his foot in his mouth) ad nauseam!
@meadows: Interesting. Any chance you could list the full season’s results for 2007 and 2008?
@star: dont count your chickens just yet Sterretjie – Jeppe will be very good next year and KES and PBHS are always competitive. You just never know how a 1st XV will turn out though – lot of luck needed
@meadows: hell – no springboks for 100+ years and then two within three years of each other – embarrasment of riches at House
@ Grassy- I have already prepared our acceptance speech for next year.
Unfortunately our top 3 teams ( Kearsney/Westville and GW) only played in 3 matches. In contrast the Gauties( KES/PBHS and Jeppe) played in 6. If they hadn’t won from there they never will. Also College will be right back to the top of their game next year and surely DHS /House can only improve. KZN’s star will shine bright next year 
Before I cope it from Greenblooded for being a bad sport “well done Gauteng”.
@ meadows- you will find that House has had good teams throughout its history. I remember my uncle who played for House and Natal in 1953 telling me that in that year they only lost one game( to one of the Cape schools I think). House will bounce right back, I reckon their seconds and thirds this year were more than competitive. I stand to correction but I think the 3rds beat GW who in turn beat Affies. I was there this last weekend watching soccer and House definitely has picked up their game in that regard. I was a little concerned though about the jig they do when they score a goal. Too much influence from McCulley.
@Gungets Tuft: hmmmm – I am getting the 2009 result confused. I thought the annual derby started in 2008. 1983, 85 and 92 were my era and were all played at Saints week when that was the only school boy festival going. College were lucky
to catch KES in 85 and 92 with very mediocre teams. In 83 College must have been bladdy good ‘cos I think KES lost only one or two games that year. Any idea where 96 and 01 were played – both very close games?
@meadows: 2008 was a dire year for College. Played 20, won just 7, lost 17 (DHS, Dan Pienaar, St Johns, Paul Roos, Harmony, PBHS x2, GCB, Affies, Glenwood x2.). Hell, even drew with Westville
… but beat Kearsney … 
College beat the 2007 side, but much against the odds if I remember, might even have been College Reunion day??. Seem to remember a set of twins playing for House (centres?) – was a huge bonus to beat them on Goldstones
@Roger: 2004 side had Pat Cilliers and Mike Rhodes. I asume that its Pat Cilliers you are referring to – also a Springbok. They were both there in 2005 as well when Cilliers captained the CW side.
@Grasshopper: Are you referring to the 2007 side or 2004?
2007 was possibly the strongest side in recent times – MHS were quite strong in the 1920’s and 30’s.
I’m not sure which of the 2007 or 2008 sides were better. Their results were identical – both suffered one loss – as was their contributions to the CW, SA Schools side and ultimately the pro ranks. Three players – Pat Lambie, Ruan Combrinck and CW tighthead Louis Albertse played in both years. Both sides ended up ranked in the top 5 or 6 in SA.
I think that the 2008 side was better balanced with a much bigger pack. That said their fixture list was kinder to them with most of their tougher domestic games at home which they took advantage of by recording big wins over College and Kearsney for eg. Their only loss was a narrow one away to a very good Grey PE side (ended up 3rd nationally).
The 2004 side beat Glenwood as did the 2005 side. 2006 was called off as was 2007 due to teachers strikes and flu epidemics. Next time they played was in 2008 which ended up in a draw at Balgowan – 25 all if memory serves – and both teams were without their captains and SA Schools reps Lambie and Malton.
@Gungets Tuft: Occupational hazard of playing the okes from Maydon Wharf – sorry about that. We should have been more forceful in the land-grab back in the 1920’s when the school settled down by the docks. Then we wouldn’t have to shunt the College okes down to Lower Umbilo to play that funny game with the bent sticks.
BTW – the 15:00 hockey match is at the “3 Schools” venue just down the road. A 5 minute run if the okes are fit…….
@GreenBlooded: Well, you need to speak to your Direcor (sic) of Sport and fix that last hockey game. What kaaind man, keeping a 14 player squad from the main rugby game?. By the time I clear Queensmead, find parking somewhere down on Gale Street and fight my way in, the main match will be over. Sies!!
@Roger: I don’t have that 2008 result, my records say we did not play that year. I have :
1959 – 22-3 (H)
1983 – 21-9 (A)
1985 – 25-7 (A)
1992 – 31-21 (A)
1996 – 10-13 (A)
2001 – 14-12 (A)
2009 – 14-52 (H)
2010 – 26-14 (A)
2011 – 20-28 (H)
2012 – 25-42 (A)
2013 – 30-8 (H)
Was 2008 not perhaps a festival or something not included on the normal calendar. Mr “Records” Wiblin is seldom wrong …
Glenwood vs College fixtures for this weekend.
http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/sites/default/files/Sport%20vs%20College%20Aug2013.pdf
Some games at Glenwood Prep – the downside of being a big school in a cramped area.
@Grasshopper: Yip, SACS beat Boland for the first time since 2001 (Paul Delport’s year). Results against Boland this year says more about the Boland team than the opposition though, will gladly play any of your KXN teams next year and the years thereafter, this years’ results are in the book with no comments column, but I do look forward to future opportunities to play you guys and the others.
@meadows: Lions prop – now moved to Stormers – name escapes me – Pat someone – wasn’t he in that team as well as Michael Rhodes (I think is his name)
@meadows: that was probably MHS strongest side in history, did you beat Glenwood that year? 550 boarders equals things out a bit against a gov school with 250 rugby playing boarders and 200 day dog players…
@Woltrui: No worries – nothing wrong with a bit of banter. I’m pretty sure that Affies would beat MHS in most years with MHS being competitive in the odd good year that comes around. By the way it was 2004 not 2005 that MHS beat Affies at St Johns – ’04 was a pretty decent MHS side followed by a weak 2005. 2006 was average and then 2007 and 2008 were strong again as was last year 2012.
@CapeMan: I highly doubt it mate, Glenwood beat Boland Landbou and Paarl Boys, losing 43-12 to a very good Gim side. Methinks Kearsney, Glenwood, Westville and College would have beaten most of the southern suburbs teams…..sorry, they just not up there. Wynberg and Rondebosch looked ok when I watched them. Has any Southern suburb side beaten a winelands team this year?
@Roger: It was a special team – but I guess that those are the ups and downs you get with a smallish school. That team produced 8 Craven Week players and 8 players who went on to play at least U21 provincial rugby after school including three who played SA U20 (Lambie, Ross Cronje and Ruan Combrinck), a Springbok in Lambie and a 7’s Bok in Sharks Currie Cup player Mark Richards.
@meadows: Meadows I humbly apologise for the remark about Michaehouse. I felt like a dog after I made the remark. Just wanted tomake a point regarding McCulleys attack on the Affies coaches.
@Roger: Good to hear. Keep us informed from time to time on his progress.
@CapeMan: KES have a positive win-loss ration against all Cape and Winelands schools except Bishops – there is a caveat though – they have never played Paul Roos
@GreenBlooded: still slow but steady I believe. He is back in the hostel and receives ongoing physdion etc etc but it is a long process. They had a massive golf day a few weeks back at Royal Jhb to raise money for the lightning fund which has now way exceeded its original mandate just to care for those affected by the strike. Plenty, plenty money donated and raised!
@meadows: Yes they did – at the KES festival with Lambie in fine form. That was a very special Michaelhouse team
@Roger: On a completely separate topic – how is the youngster who suffered the lightning strike going with his rehab? Bidili I think his name is. I hosted some of your boys a few weeks back and ‘slow but steady’ seemed to be the general consensus.
@Gungets Tuft: I have KES-College at played 12 College won 7 Kes won 5 – Kes won in 96, 08,09,11,12, lost 13,10,92,85 – and the first matches sometime before the rinderpest
@Gungets Tuft: Wa ha ha
@McCulleys Workshop: I will pass, thanks. I don’t play nicely with the other boys, so I will just watch. I just don’t know why we restrict it to only government schools, or just English schools. Open it up, that way it is immaterial whether Glenwood have a high proportion of Afrikaans speakers (as does College and Northwood), or that Affies might admit the odd (as in a few, not as in slightly abnormal) Soutie. If Fishies venture north, or … er … {koff} .. Gautengers venture South, then they are in the comp. Glenwood can consider sending their rejects (y’know, the ones that only make Academy week …
) to Northwood or Clifton, then we can even it all up a bit and sneak that much needed point.
My beer and wine charity mood only extends so far.
And no, not going to Chunnisbeg to hand over the prize – I am very superstitious of venturing past Van Reenen’s unless I am heading for Botswana or suffink. You want to phuza, come and get it esor …
@Vleis: I’m not sure, there were some injuries, some player movement (not poached by Hilton) or change in combinations and an over-rated start to the season at the U15 ISRF. The U14 were dismal.
@McCulleys Workshop: People have short memories! I also think people fail to recognise that a school with some 500 boys is not going to consistently produce top teams and is hit hard by injuries.
By the way, what happened to your u15 team? They started the season off really well, then fizzled away with losses to Hilton, St John’s and some big losses to a few Natal schools? Injuries?
@meadows: Funny thing is, after possibly the poorest season in history, coming off last season when we were ranked No1 in KZN and a strong and competitive last 25 years, there are comments about 2nd teams beating us, 4th teams beating us, and even being relegated to Tier 2 status!
@CapeMan: Good grief! I think you need to take a few deep breaths into a brown paper bag dear boy. Surely, you can’t still be smarting from the loss to my little co-ed Jhb school back in the ’80’s?
On a related note, allow me to provide you with a piece of advice: In future, before making any rash statements, do a little research. This year a Gauteng english school (not KES) beat both SACS and Bishops.
@Roger: If you go back a year or two more I know that MHS beat KES at KES in 2007.
@Vleis: Come now, the Gauteng English schools with the exception of KES are no match for the Cape English schools. Bishops, Bosch, SACS and Bishops have beeeen slaughtering the Gauteng schools over the past 10 years. @Grasshopper: ourselves and bishops arent particularly good this year but they would beat most KZN schools this year
@Woltrui: I have no doubt that this years outstanding Affies side would give the weakest MHS side that I can recall a hiding of note but before we start talking about 4ths vs 1sts etc. perhaps you should cast your mind back to the last time that the mighty Affies did actually play little MHS – I’ll give you a clue – it was at the St John’s Easter tournament in 2005
@Grasshopper: Sorry if I was arrogant sir. I love your passion for Glenwood sir. Sorry if I offended you.
@McCulleys Workshop: So you do know the coaches of Affies and what they stand for dear Sir? Of course it is your right to comment. The rules of the house do warn us not to make unfounded personal attacks though. That would be venturing in Diesel Mech territory, won’t it.
@McCulleys Workshop: happy to adjudicate! Now called the Rogstar Cup until Glenwood are included, then it could be called the Grogstar Cup, ill sponsor the trophy and we can have a bloggers get together in either Jozi or Durbs at the end of the season to hand over to the winning provinces bloggers.
@McCulleys Workshop: Affies 2nd and 3rds could not beat Glenwood, I doubt there 4th’s would beat MHS’s 2nds….let alone your 1sts….arrogance personified….
@Woltrui: I’m sure this is a sad reality for you, Corporaal, but my right to comment, spectate or venture an opinion, many of which are correct, is not limited to whether the teams I support win or lose, or are at the top of the ranking, Corporaal, neither will it change.
@McCulleys Workshop: Dear Mr McCulley. Beautiful name Sir. I saw after the weekends game between Affies and Glenwood you again made a couple of comments about the Affies coaches dear sir. I take it you know them personally sir? Any new insight what these coaches plan of action is for the coming weekend?
What school do you represent dear sir? Sorry for the my ignorance but in rugby terms who, if I might ask, is this school with the red and white hoops? Ahhh, I see. The rugby powerhouse which is Michaelhouse. We should get together and maybe arrange a game between Affies 4th team and your 1st team dear sir. I’m sure it would be entertaining
@Star: @Gungets Tuft: @Grasshopper: @Roger: @Vleis:RE GROGPER CUP: Can I democratically suggest that Star and GT, representing KZN and Dodger and Vleis representing Gauteng, clearly define the rules of the GROGPER CUP, with all the entrappings of ceremonial handovers, bragging rites etc, and I personally think Grasshopper is well positioned, as unbiased as he is, to mediate any disputes, with a casting vote – other than the inclusion of Glenwood! Kind Regards Jonny come Lately
@Vleis: mmmm I see that, and St Jonnies pulled off their win of the season, beating the up and coming Clifton by 40 points, Ok so we are down and out. Seems like Roger and his merry Tailban will have to accept Victory from G Tuft – as Grasshopper isn’t talking to us anymore after his sides banishment from the Cup. WBHS Griffon must be doing himself at that thought.
@Gungets Tuft: only reason I know it is my CEO visited SA, asked to be taken for dinner, he chose Balthazars at the Waterfront and picked the wine, only R600 bottle of that stuff! Jeez, it’s not that good and it came off my P&L…..cheeky bugger!
@Grasshopper: Cool 8)
Maybe I’ll see you at the HJS v Gimmies game on Sat, although I doubt it as it looks like the crowd that I am with have booked a long lunch at a fancy restaurant in CT. Eish
@Grasshopper: Can you send me an empty of one of those. Never going to drop that sort of wonga on a bottle of wine, nor is my neighbour – the person I stole the other two empties from. Was just going to decant some tassies into those, now you have blown my cover. Bloody Glenwood people
@Gungets Tuft: try a Yonderhill Nicola 2008 red, awesome stuff!
@Vleis: in the 80’s and a bit of the 90’s last 20 years unfortunately belongs to the Winelands. Watched a SACS vs Bishops game recently and disappointed with the standard. Anyway, enough said. Well done Gauteng on winning the Grogper, hopefully Glenwood get to be involved somehow going forward, maybe attending a JHB festival….who knows. We will watch the Grogper next year with great interest…..
@Grasshopper: For a man that has such a passion for history, you seem to choose your stats very carefully…some would say disingenuously even!
The CT schools beat the Winelands schools as much as they lost back in the day. Indeed, in the year that my old school beat Rondebosh (at Rondebosch by the way), Rondebosch beat Affies in Pretoria! Bang goes your theory chum!
@McCulleys Workshop: No worries. As I say, most schools that I am aware of (excluding MH of course) treat the festival as a development tour and take a bunch of gr10s along, etc. Last year St Albans gave Kearsney a big hiding, so clearly the latter did not take it too seriously either.
Anyway, this year St Alban’s beat two Natal schools, so I’ll trade you those victories for your two wins over Gauteng schools!
@McCulleys Workshop: I will buy the beers, and add a fine bottle of red for Woltrui. The beers because College could have brought it home but slipped on the banana peel, and the wine because I can, and ou Wollie has proved himself worthy with the Collegians in Pretoria. The rest of you okes have some work to do to get on my wine list … 8)
The catch, you have to come to the Burru and collect ’em. I like to look a man in the eye when I concede, it’s the gentlemanly thing to do. If Wollie pulls in he can share a bottle of Rudera Syrah, or Villiera Monro.
@Vleis: OK boet, I’m talking strong Cape schools like Paarl Gim, Paarl Boys High, Paul Roos, Boland Landou, Drostdy, Outeniqua etc….anyway no point in arguing with you. Point is if Glenwood is not in the Grogper Cup (Grasshopper & Roger) then it needs to be renamed the Gold Banana Cup instead…..without Glenwood involved it’s not all inclusive hence a false representation of KZN English schools strength, it would be like leaving out PBHS or KES…
@Vleis: and Vleis, MHS’s rugby history of first team results shows the results of the ISRF. In 2008 we lost two of the three games, with 7 of our players missing due to CW. But the losses were in the 1st team column, the boys were in the red and white and not allocated to the miscellaneous column.
@Vleis: Grasshopper, FFS buy the men a case of our finest – Black Label Quarts, and lets get on with it. PS and stop marginalizing St Charles and others – Parktown were pathetic and the Gautrainers aren’t trying to exclude them – No GT science needed here – lets stick to the same sides for next year. Happy?
@Grasshopper: Invite them in to what dear boy? Not the Grogper Cup surely – they’ve just won the blasted thing?
…and what are you blathering on about Jhb schools v Cape schools? Nice bit of obfuscation there old bean. Focus young man, focus…this is the Natal schools v the Jhb schools! But since you raise the topic…and since you have a love of history, I can confirm that even my little co-ed Jhb school beat a few Cape schools as far back as the mid-eighties. If I remember correctly, it was SACS and Rondebosch or Wynberg.
Toodle pip!
@Vleis: yeah thanks mate, very nice of you ;-). Maybe when a JHB school beats a top Cape side we can invite them in too….
@Grasshopper:
…you okes are taking this loss very badly. Lot’s of whining and scrambling for old, irrelevant stats.
Tell you what mate, I’ll toss you a bone: as soon as Glenwood beats George Campbell, we’ll invite you back to the top table to play in the Grogper Cup – we’ll even overlook your dual medium status.
@Roger: Westville also used to play Parktown down the line and it too was stopped due to one sided results….
@Roger: Glenwood played St Stitians for about 5 years down the line, the results were too one sided so it was stopped…..
@Roger: College totals against all Gauteng schools for ever
Played 115
Won 80
Drawn 3
Lost 32
@Roger: College (A little license, they are confirmwed till 2011, tried to remember the 2012 results and 2013)
PBHS (1950) Played 35, Won 25, Drawn 1, Lost 9
KES (1959) Played 11, Won 7, Drawn 0, Lost 4
Jeppe (1945) Played 6, Won 6
Waterkloof (1998) Played 2, Won 1, Lost 1
St Stithians (1983) Played 3, Won 3
Monnas (1989), PLayed 3, Won 2, Lost 1
As far as I can see Affies it the only Gauteng school where we have not a favourable win/loss ratio. Of course we do not play all of them, nor have we played them all recently.
Not going to bother with the “last 5 years” thing, would hate anyone to accuse me of cherry-picking years to our favour
@Roger: We are awaiting for your winner’s acceptance speech. And be modest, but not too modest!
@GreenBlooded: You may have the natural beach, but we build artificial ones. AND WE HAVE THE GAUTRAIN TOO!
@Grasshopper: on what do you base that?
If you go back 5 years (incl 2013) – and I can only speak for KES, then it stands at:
Kes vs Westville – KES 4 Westville 1
Kes vs College – Kes 3 College 2
Kes vs DHS, Hilton, Michaelhouse, Northwood etc – KES 10 KZN 0
and KES has not played Glenwood or Kearsney
Does someone have PBHS and Jeppe results – these are the other two that play KZN schools annually. The other annual fixture is the Methodist meander between Kearsney and Saints and I am pretty sure Saints have not won in 5 years – Beet can confirm.
@Grasshopper – This is starting to sound seriously viable. So you have a 2 tier league table (you can decide who belongs in which league) and just to make it relevant, you weight it, so your premier league games earn slightly more points than the second league.
On your comment about Glenwood opposition – perhaps a bit harsh – they are probably also only trying to honor fixtures which have been established over time – would be a bit disrespectful to suddenly drop them. Also, my feeling is that they do need these tough games – they would not be the quality team they are without being stretched from time to time – just saying.
@GreenBlooded: Exactly, the Grogper Cup loss had nothing to do with Glenwood unfortunately, we prefer to play the big Afrikaans schools for some reason. Change in fixtures, coach, and headmaster is needed to turn this trend around…
@Vleis: Yep, Kearsney, Glenwood, Westville and Glenwood would be very close to PBHS, KES, Jeppe and St Stithians/St Johns/Parktown, in fact if it was between those 4 from each province I would put my money on KZN every time. Including tier 2 results in this just gives Gauteng a chance. Grogper Premier League and Grogper Soutie League required…
@Roger: Us Greenies can proudly hold our hands to our hearts and say “We had nothing to do with this terrible loss”.
Well done to the Gauties! 8)
@Grasshopper: I think that the top four English schools in Gauteng are a match for the top four in Natal. I don’t see much difference between KES, Jeppe, PBHS plus one other to WBHS, MC, GW plus one other. Perhaps Beet should start the Super Grogper Cup for said schools?
@Playa: St David’s is tier 2, but Bennies (like St John’s, Saints, St Alban’s) is probably on the borderline of tier 1 and 2. Bennies is about 60 years old, but only played football until about 15 years ago, when the school started rugby for the first time. They have improved remarkably since then on the back of: a) the school growing from less than 400 boys to over 600 now; b) getting in good, passionate coaches; c) the Bennies prep school now plays rugby from u9; and d) the ‘buying’ of some over age players (in my opinion anyway). Apart from point d), well done to Bennies – I’m sure that we will hear more from them in future. The Bok u20 wing that recently played in the u20 RWC was from Bennies.
To be honest, I think that St Charles is close the borderline of tier 1 and 2 – they may have had a kak 1st team this year, but their younger age groups are quite competitive and the school is growing. I’m pretty sure that they will be a tier 1 school within the next five years.
@Redblack White: Alright cool. Didnt know that.
Well done Gauteng, well tried KZN-next year, please try again – and Glenwood – grow a ding-a-ling – and play with the real men
@Playa – Not sure about the others, but Voortrekker is dual medium nowadays.
@Redblack White: Not that far off the mark actually – for the KZN Top School competition only the first game counts. If College had won then the home-away score would naturally have been better
I reckon we should formalise it a bit more, and include all matches between a fixed set of schools, whether English or Afrikaans. We could call it the “Salt and Vinegar” Challenge (in honour of the rather dubious distinction of us being Souties ….
)
Northwood, DHS, Glenwood, Westville, St Charles and College vs the Vaalie schools we play.
@Grasshopper:
you’re clutching at straws mate. Aren’t Port Natal, Voortrekker and Pioneer Afrikanns schools?Where do you think the likes of St Davids, Benedicts, Stithians and Johns would rank in GP if the Afrikaans schools were included?
No doubt that the top 4 English schools in KZN would have the upper hand on their GP counterparts in 2013.But as far as the Grogper Cup is concerned…I still think it was an evenly matched contests as far as teams are concerned, the 7-6 score reflects so.
Well done Gauteng!
Didn’t help that MC lost twice to PBHS – perhaps only 1 result should count = so now I declare it a draw – @ Greenblooded – how’s that for going one better on the sore loser front
@Playa: Yep, but upper Tier 2, St Charles is lower tier 2 behind the likes of Clifton, Port Natal, Voortrekker, Pioneer etc….it should be tier 1 schools only, top 8 or top 10…
@Grasshopper: Wouldn’t you say St Davids and St Benedicts are tier 2 schools as well?
@Grasshopper: But Hoppertjie the Gropher Cup is for 1st teams only sir? and , I do not want to be rude, Waterkloof is indeed a top Afrikaans school in Pretoria.
@Tjoppa: correction, the Afrikaans speaking kids are mostly in the A and 1st teams, the majority of the 500 players are English and Zulu. The difference in KZN to Gauteng is the Afrikaans schools in KZN are very small hence good Afrikaans speaking boys choose one of the big English schools, not just for rugby but because their parents realize that to succeed in business they need to be fluent in English….
Well done Gauteng and Roger, however I think including St Charles in this is not a fair reflection, they are a tier 2 school and probably only about 14th in KZN. Also, look at the difference in the actual number of players in KZN vs Gauteng, far fewer in KZN. Therefore we are doing relatively well. Also, Glenwood should be included if they play a Gauteng English school, which they should. I still think the top 4 English schools in KZN are stronger than the top 4 Gauteng English schools both at 1st team and down the line….
Beet maybe you got this wrong. I quote “Die Hoerskool Glenwood is nou ‘n suiwer Afrikaanse skool en die Grogperbeker is slegs vir Engelse skole!” it must read that Glenwood’s majority rugby players is Afrikaans speaking therefore disqualifying them from the Grogper cup, which is for English Speaking rugby teams at school in either Gauteng or KZN
Bwahahahahaha Good humour!!
Greenblooded’s ‘bad loser’ comment: “Well at least we still have the beach”
Well done Gauteng-a-leng. Next year okes……..