Following KZN’s 46-22 defeat at the hands of the Bulls, blogger Tarpeys planted the seed with his comment suggesting that a change was due This give rise to several other comments being made on the topic:
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While I am definitely not a fan of SE and his connections to the sharks the solution to our less than acceptable prgression over the years is simple . Select the team without a specific school bias and select that team early ! Choose the best players regardless of from where they come as the current sytem is bound to create bias – the coach will push for the players he knows and know his game plan . CW coach should not come from any of the tier one schools end of story ! Give the coach a good balanced squad and enough time to work with that squad and then hold him accountable ! I also like the idea of slowing down at the end of the second term and then playing into the third term
@beet: Last night I spoke to a few of the kids from GK, there appears to have been none of that at their tournament. The kids are all mates from primary school and that carried right on through. It would be a pity if it was cliquey at CW.
@Rugbyforlife: Hey Rugbyforlife. Some things with regards to team dynamics that were mentioned here have bugged me over the last few days. I remember a famous example of a provincial u19 Currie Cup team from that did not play to their true potential because of cliques that had formed within the squad. These things do happen. And they do affect the performances of players and the results. It does not make it right tho. Just as we read a few weeks back about selectors possibly excluding a player from Craven Week on the basis of his poor behaviour to presumably ensure that the team was disciplined and focused, so too should they have continued with this theme during Craven Week and guarded against things that could potentially have disrupted the team. Player management. If some of the things mentioned happened to be true, it’s very sad indeed. My email address is on the top right if there is anything you’d like to disclose.
@Griffon: we need to aske what agender the coaches had because i do not no why webster was moved to full back when he was doing ok there
@Grasshopper: i think before we comment about players i think u guys should interview them to find out how things were at craven week for them .
@GREENMOM: ok Greenmom ;-). I’m just the MD of a digital advertising firm, but OK….
@Grasshopper: Which schack do you and your sort come from? Bursary got u in there. Only way.
No class…no academic genius. Enjoy the TIK TIK BRU!
It clearly affects ….
Well done to the KZN showing mental strength to come out and whack Border! It’s a case of lost opportunities. Both Doops for SA Schools. Heard Nela had a great game too!
@GREENMOM: was that alcohol or weed induced? There is absolutely no animosity amongst the boys, mainly just old boys who want to claim being the best rugga school.
Well done to the KZN boys for thei big win against Border, I must say I was expecting a closer game than that. @ RBugger I’m sure the boys played really welll to beat quite a formidable Border side
@GREENMOM: I think you sell the boys short. While time might be short to get patterns of play sorted out, their attitude is probably more mature than the average blogger here and those internal rivalries are non-existant.
@Grasshopper: So if I have this correct the English translation for Bog is Grashopper. Luckily you did not ask a Afrikaner to directly translate. We would have called you Sh!t.
With all the tears and moaning about the CW team, all seem to overlook the fact that the KZN Academy team did well! THey won 2 of the 3 games with a close 3rd! Many of those players should have been in the CW team which would have prevented some of the dismal CW losses KZN took. Its not the players or the coaches, its the envy between schools and “supporters” that poisons the minds of the players ! They are so full of hate and envy t\that they dont slot into the CW teams. They forget the DO NOT represent GW, WV or KC but KZN at that point. The coaches do not have enough time to detox the minds at CW or Academy to mould them into a single unit with a vision. Try to realise your negative impact on our boys and the reason for the pathetic results at CW become obvious to those who are serious about rugby, not about the ELITE schools the stem from Sad day foR rugby. Some comments are regrettably biased.
@WBHS Griffon: Read Gungetstuft’s last post, that will put some perspective on it for you. All hearsay, Glenwood and Westville never played so we will never know. All I do know is this,
Glenwood vs Westville (since 1964)
Played: 48
Won: 31
Lost: 15
Drawn: 2
% Win: 65%
That is good enough for me to go to bed now content…
It’s going to take Westville a mighty long time to catch up on wins there….
@McCulleys Workshop: Awesome response to Greenwood, love the homour, that’s hilarious!
@Grasshopper: Unfortunately we have to be objective and go on the facts and results this season, regardless of where allegiances lie or how many players were injured on the day or not feeling well or had a headache etc.
Unfortunately your loss to Campbell and a narrow win over College on Goldstones does push you out of the top 2, regardless of what you think!
You and I both know you would have lost to Westville this season, it’s a real shame about the Westville / Kearsney game to properly decided no. 1 and no.2.
@RBugger: not sure if the 12 is playing, he was injured.
@Greenwood: ya, led to believe there were lots of issues, guys bunking out the hostel, one or two expelled from the hostel, the captain Kay dropped, lots of bumbling and big partying, it happens and it has an effect on performance. They are now tired and over school rugby.
@Tjoppa: Hahahahaha!
@Amalekite: Thanks!
Just heard they’re only televising the final game…what a pity
Bulls-SWD;FS-Pumas;WP-Lions…should be bone crushing contests.
@Tjoppa: hahahhaha
@RBugger: Think just think if the Pumas beat the Greystaat team Bog will disappear for six months. Go Pumas!
No man – Free State to hammer the Pumas!
Border, Bulls, Pumas and Province.
How do they work out who plays on what field?? Could it be an indication of who the selectors want to see playing? I wonder…
@Playa: Final Day’s Programme
Stadium
09.15: Zimbabwe vs Namibia
10.45: Border vs KwaZulu Natal
12.15: Blue Bulls vs South Western Districts
13.45: Free State vs Pumas
15.15: Western Province vs Golden Lions
B Field
09.15: Limpopo vs Eastern Province Country Districts
10.45: Griffons vs Boland
12.15: Eastern Province vs Valke,
C Field
09.15: Border Country Districts vs Griquas
10.45: Griquas Country Districts vs Leopards
Border went unbeaten in the first CW back in 1964.This being the 50th edition, how wonderful would it be to repeat that feat!!!
Come on boys, do it for the aloe. You have already done us proud, go out there and do it for yourselves.
Should be a cracker of a game.
Anyone got the kick off times yet?
@RBugger: Ye should be good agree I think it is the KZN forwards vs the Border backs.
@Queenian: It will be a good game, sort of the KZN pack against the Border backline!
The loosies will have their hands full looking after your 10 – vert good player. Funnily enough, the KZN 12 went to Selborne and knows all the players quite well
@RBugger: Should be a good game I think these two teams are quite evenly matched although on paper I would say KZN might have the advantage but you never know.
I suppose instead of calling this a position 7 place you can call it the all “Soutie Final” I know other unions have some Soutie reps but know more than KZN and Border.
Griffon
I did not see anyone posting this and without making excuses – GWD were short 9 1st team players at Campbell – add a dash of complacency and home ground advantage – wallah ! a win for Campbell – some useless info here – Campbell is a sibling of Glenwood – they split from Glenwood when GWD were more of a technical school many years back – this scenario reminds me of my days as an athlete at GWD when my coach -himself quite a good athlete ran in the same race in a senior league meeting – I was still at school then and I beat him and as I passed him I said very respectfully –“Go Sir !!” – so here we have Campbell passing GWD and hats off to them
PLaying Border on Saturday – my word, that is going to be one hell of a hard game for the team. Border are unbeaten and have looked very very good – so KZN will have to dig deep.
Have heard that Schramm will be playing – not sure f this is out of desperation or if he is actually fit to play, we will see
@Gungets Tuft: Spot on! Well said….for me it’s Kearsney at 1, then tie for 2nd due to no match between Westville and Glenwood, followed by Hilton, College, Michaelhouse, Northwood, DHS, George Campbell, Clifton and Port Natal. What is for certain is the top 5 teams are all pretty close and on any given day could beat one another. Home and away status plays a huge role….
@WBHS Griffon: Did you watch either of the College vs Glenwood or the College vs Westville matches?
If you did, you would not be using these are a deduction tool. There is no comparison at all, starting from the way it was reffed (Joubert – a magnificent running match, few stops, absolute focus by the boys on the match and the atmosphere – best schoolboy match I have ever watched, vs (unnamed ref) – stop start, penalty-fest, no atmosphere, loads of niggle and bad-tempered players, etc, etc).
College and their supporters didn’t and won’t make excuses, but unless you witnessed the Glenwood match you will not realise that it was a unique match and can be taken out of your linear equation for settling the d#@k-measuring contest. Don’t believe me, ask other independents like Buffel who saw the match.
On results, Glenwood are above College, as are Hilton. So are Westville. Those are real facts, not deduction or if-then conjecture. Westville better than Glenwood this year – nobody will ever know. That too is a fact. That the Trevor’s haven’t sorted out the boardroom issues, and Westville-Kearsney didn’t see fit to reschedule, means Westville has lost probably it’s best opportunity to end top in KZN. Make sense?
Horsie
…Players made to look good by their team mates – Spot on there – Good point
KZN 10:45 A field ( phew) vs Border on Saturday, playing for 7th. Wonder if the flown in players will start or those that were originally selected.
@McCulleys Workshop: sorry McCulleys that was meant for Griffon…
@McCulleys Workshop: for Griffon my mate, I have stated a few times I think Ellse, Martin and Jackson should have been at CW. Also your captain if not injured. Luckily attending CW does not guarantee success after school so those boys can still make it. Kyle Cooper only played a few 1st games at Glenwood, Shaun Adendorff only played Academy…..John Allan played 2nd team. Chill boet….
@WBHS Griffon: you know you can’t make assumptions on victory margins, completely different conditions on each occasion. Glenwood played College on the biggest day in their history, 150th celebrations. They have played Glenwood for 92 years, they were amped for the occasion. Against Westville they had a few still recovering for flu and it was not even a compulsory. Very very different atmospheres and circumstances. Again you bring up Campbell they played for their lives to make up for the loss to Westville, as that must have been an off day for them. This is the beauty of sport, every game is different with different conditions. Look at derby days the stronger side on paper does not always win. Lets just say Westville would not have won on Dixons, only 1 KZN side has beaten Glenwood there in the past 5 years or more, Kesrsney last year in the last minute. When Westville were seriously tested at Kearsney they came short, remember Grey Bloem last year. Welcome to the big boys league….
@WBHS Griffon: You cooking again? No-one is suggesting that you aren’t No 1 right now and that your entire 1st team shouldn’t have been the Craven Week team, least of all Grasshopper, he has graciously conceded that the CW side was over stated by green machine by at least 3 players – give it a break, or pick on that Green College chameleon.
@Grasshopper: You not better that Kearsney or Westville this year, that’s for sure and that’s the reason why you 3rd in the province!
I get the fact that you beat Paarl Boys etc, but, the bottom line is you lost to Campbell and Kearsney and Westville gave them 50 points, also Westville gave College 50 on Goldstones and you narrowly scraped a win, so given the facts / results this season, it’s tough to really see how you could possibly be ranked higher than 3rd! Make sense now?
@Andre T: agreed, they were good yesterday, only 2 KZN players realistically in with a chance for SA Schools selection. The rest are good 1st team players but that is it.
@Andre T: Ha Ha
@McCulleys Workshop: Looking at their team now I think it’s Theuns Jordaan meets Mafikizolo
@Andre T: In my day they couldn’t have spelt it, let alone listened to it, they were more Ge Korsten meets Mob Barley.
@McCulleys Workshop: In my days the boys from Michaelhouse would never have listened to McCulleys Workshop. That was more Glenwood’s taste.
@Grasshopper: Going on yesterday’s game the KXN XV is actually a 2 man team. The twins had to make the tackles, win the turnovers, carry the ball and win the line outs. With all due respect, the rest of the team was only on the field to make up the numbers.
@Andre T: Positive Sir
@McCulleys Workshop: Hey Buccaneer, can’t see what’s written on your jumper. Is it Michaelhouse?
@Grasshopper: More du Preezs
@Andre T: who should have gone?
@Andre T: Correct, not that there was much Ellse left in the cupboard.
A bit off topic, I see it’s the 50th anniversary of the Craven Week this year. My uncle (Glenwood Old Boy) played for Natal in the first one in 1964, in the unofficial final Border beat Natal 10-9, how times have changed. My uncle showed me all his pics a few weeks ago, pics with Doc Craven etc…..must have been fun times….
Here’s a thought:
Are the KZN coaches/ selectors maybe failing to find the difference between a good player and a player made good by his teammates??
Let me tell you that 90% of the KZN players were lucky to go to Pietersburg
@WBHS Griffon: Boet, Glenwood won the official top rugby school trophy for KZN in 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011. Last year it went to Michaelhouse and then year probably to Kearsney, not sure where you get 2nd or 3rd in KZN from, maybe the last couple of years but it’s not full proof this year as there were too many games not played. See here; http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/glenwood-take-kzn-schools-rugby-trophy-4th-year-row
I think there were too many Glenwood boys in the KZN side, but Van Vuuren, Mazibuko, Coetzee, Joubert, Vermaak, Ngcobo and Nela deserved their spots on merit. Vidima & Tredoux were lucky….
@GreenBlooded: I agree wholeheartedly with the point you make. The fact of the matter is the SE is great servant of GW and KZN rugby and although he is not the prime decision maker at GW he has some influence but is he a policy maker or does he just execute? All these rugby men deserved their appointments if we like it or not, but I still would like to know how one decides if somebody is a good coach or not.
Whah
A quick history lesson; 1st XV coaches that are not real teachers ie spends time teaching a academic subject have proved to be less successful than coaches that hangs around schools with a school badge on their chests till practice starts. Another reality is that huge unhappiness in a staff room follows when a pro coach is appointed. Australia clearly learned from their ‘mistake’ and appointed EM. So, it is fair say that a coach from outside the system won’t be appointed as all the current KZN coaches spend time teaching a academic subject and all have strong rugby cv’s and expeirence. Complete clean out, re structure or bit of both and with let go of a posible succession plan?
@WBHS Griffon: Ushually 2 or 3 in the province. Hahahahaha. Good one.
What are you saying about the other coaches and selectors? Are you saying the Mssrs Steyn, Giles, Gerricke, Reynolds, Pyoos, Combrink and Richter collectively lie down and let SE walk all over them? Are you saying that SE is SO powerful in KZN rugby circles that he simple dictates what should happen and all of these other gentlemen simply say “Yes Sean. Whatever you say Sean.” – ?? Seriously dude – if SE has so much influence, please come up with a plausible theory on how he manages, from an assistant coach position, to get so many unworthy Glenwood players selected.
While you are at it – please also come up with a plausible theory of how he, or some other Glenwood person, manages to get so many unworthy Glenwood players to dominate the GK team considering that Glenwood have 0/3 representation in the team management and 1/5 representation in the selection committee. We must have a lot of rugby men with peanut sized balls to have one Glenwood man walk all over them like this.
It’s very easy to sit back and sprout conspiracy theories – and Lord knows I’ve heard some whoppers here – quite another to come up with evidence and plausible explanations.
@Tjoppa: You’re right on the money today, aren’t you?
@GreenBlooded: Doesn’t matter, there is still major bias towards Glenwood with the selections and everyone knows it. SE obviously has more pull than we know.
How do you explain the 5 – 10 selections every year from a side that’s usually 2 or 3 in the province and on top of that a perennial under performing Craven Week team, make sense??
@RBugger: I think they’re getting ready for senior rugby, they will both take it far…………………sorry to say but without them the KZN team will get 100 pointers against them…………………pity about Schramm…………………..he is also very solid
@Speartackle: They have been injured for a large portion of the season and may be a bit uncooked – JL is also weighing 112kg which is blady huge, perhaps needs to lose 5kg or so
@RBugger: Thanks boet – glad these things are noticed by some.
Hey – I am probably the biggest DG fan here – have extolled his talents on this forum more than anyone and yes I was very surprised that he didn’t make it. Could have been that he simply had a bad run at trials or luck just wasn’t on his side on the day. Add to this that the selection process does not consider performance during the season (very unfortunately). Or it could have been revenge motivated by an aggrieved Glenwood dominated selection committee who were pissed-off that he dissed their advances 2 years ago. Moving right along………
@GreenBlooded: I use gel and wax to style mine…………………I often get mistaken for Charles Bronson
@GreenBlooded: Smoke and mirrors.
By the way, well done to Fred Zeilinga on making the bench for the Sharks this Saturday. I hope he gets some game time. Well deserved.
@RBugger: They look unfit to me…………………are they injured?
@Speartackle: I think you are probably one of those bald old ballies where any hairstyle is a good hairstyle.
@WBHS Griffon: Are you aware the SE is not the head coach or head selector of the KZN Craven Week side? Unlike the Westville guy in the Grant Khomo setup.
@Speartackle: hahahahahahahaha – it would slow him down boet
@GreenBlooded: Incorrect, SE is not liked outside of Glenwood circles because of the obvious bias towards the selection of Glenwood players every year – nobody is saying he’s a particularly bad coach, just very obvious bias with selections that never seem to perform at Craven Week and other than in the last year or two have not gone on to make much impact at provincial level either. This is not a Westville / Glenwood feud, as indicated by Tarpeys it’s probably the general feeling amongst most schools.
TIME TO CLEAR OUT ALL THE GLENWOOD LOT AND TIME FOR A FRESH APPROACH – Let’s start performing at Craven Week again!
I loved the Dups hairstyles…………………wish Habana will grow his the same
@Playa: So Teazers advertise and Silverton Hotel poaches.
@Djou: Recruitment is when a school ‘advertises’ itself in effort to attract applications from kids outside of the school.It’s done en masse (I hope I used that correctly).
Poaching is when a school approaches an individual/individuals to join their school with the promise of a benefit to the scholar (usually a bursary/scholarship).
Nothing wrong with recruitment, it is how schools have been able to attract boys from all over to come to their schools.
Everything wrong with poaching as it places importance on winning at all costs, and as we have seen, has led to a breakdown in relationships between schools.It is an unfair way to bolster coffers in my opinion.
What in your minds are the difference between poaching and recruitment? And if there is a difference, which one is more acceptable and why?
My PVR failed to record the game yesterday so I did not see it. Can someone tell me who started in the backline.
I think Glenwood to get given a blady hard time to be fair. They are a great rugby school and as I have said on here before, the scholars are awesome and very well mannered.
They are poaching players, this happens all over the country – so DG said no, I honestly do not believe this has anything to do with him being excluded.
He was quiet at trials, I did not actually know who he was. I am certain if the boy has enough talent, he will make KZN next year and should just keep working hard
@GreenBlooded: Anti Glenwood???
@All Black: Cool. I just think that if there are any other anti-Glenwood war-stories being kept for a rainy day, they should rather be outed now and be done with. Speak now or forever hold the peace as it were. My bitch was never about College.
@GreenBlooded: The approach to recruit DG is fact.
The only grey area surrounds why he has been excluded from final trials altogether. Not even worthy of a place in the KZN Academy Week “B” team.
JMO: It would be much better if bloggers focus on getting to the bottom of this exclusion issue instead of trying to diminish the achievements of a standout Glenwood no.8 who for all intents and purposes deserves to be at CW based on his form this season.
In trying to come up with a logical explanation I also considered the possibility of what would happen if the Sharks were to find out a player had pledged his future to a rival union like the Bulls and whether this would now form grounds for exclusion. Was not an issue in the past but times are changing. The issue with the Kriels last year might have persuaded some that a different harsher approach is needed.
The real reasons for DG’s exclusion this year will never be revealed but perhaps by talking about on this forum we can ensure that DG gets a fair shot at selection in 2014.
Some of those Grisham novels have revenge (payback) as part of the plot.
@GreenBlooded: No skulduggery. Not a recorded call. A message left on a cell phone asking to chat about the possible move. Not being dredged up. The situation was dealt with at a meeting and that was that. Beet mentioned it and hence the comment. We are bigger than continually fighting over issues. I think you would have seen that from your involvement at College. Matter closed but a watchful eye in case of further issues.
@ All Black : I don’t blame Elder at all, I do believe he was one of the better backs and that try of his was very good. But what I’m saying , like Beet mentioned, is that Elder was brought in late after a pretty physical Academy week, and had to learn new defensive structures and try know his flyhalf in a matter of days. So it was going to be hard to get the best from him, but he was good in the moments he had the ball and I certainly don’t put any blame on him.
@GreenBlooded: Agree why now
The appointment of Paul Antony is very controversial according to my friends in Bulls country. They are not sad to see him go at the most. He’s infamous for not winning the u19 Currie cup in the last 10 year when he had possibly the best players at his disposal in the country if not the world. His lack of success infuriated the Bulls but his saving grace was his ability to recruit. Apparently he is a recruitment giant with powers beyond comprehension which is why the Bull tolerated his lack of trophies.
He is also apparently JS’s biggest mentor and confidant from their PBHS days.
If he is a half as good as they say he is at recruiting then he might prove a masters stroke. Time will tell.
@All Black: Cool. Just very surprising that this was kept quiet for 2 years and is now suddenly dredged up – what motivated keeping it quiet for so long and what motivated breaking the silence now? The Staples story was well publicised – dragged out for weeks on end here and may have even made the newspapers – yet not a word on the DG story. Also understand there is an audio recording of the approach – makes me wonder if whoever made the recording records all his/her phone-calls as a matter of habit or somehow had enticed or was expecting the call and pressed the play button. Entrapment? I wouldn’t even know how to record a phone-call – and I am a technical person – it is not as simple a pressing a button on your cell phone. It must have taken a level or thought and effort to make this recording – what motivates someone to do that?
Maybe I just read too many John Grisham novels – but there are a lot of dubious circumstances around this.
@GreenBlooded: Beet is right on the money with the DG story. It was not just a rumor either. Messages on cell phones etc were given to College.
Moderation?
@GreenBlooded: Ouch that bad
@Queenian: Top ten issues? Well they all lead back to one issue.
“The Skollies from that school in Umbilo have done far too well on the rugby field over the past 10 years. It pisses us off big time because it just shouldn’t be like that!! Therefore we need to exploit every bit of bad publicity we can, criticise their coaching staff, bad-mouth their selection and recruitment policies, refuse to play them when they step out of line (but not apply the same standard to other schools) all in the hope of beating them down with bad publicity so that the natural order of KZN SBR is restored to where it should be”.
@Queenian: I think this is old hat, and what you see on these blogs are remnants of previous threads thrashing out the matters – anyway, you would think that we in KZN were world beaters, at least we are highly asperational but possibly a little deluded.
@Griffon
I don’t think that Webster has received the full support of his provinvial coaches etc, certainly not as much as Tedder has so that mightve been a huge factor in deciding where he goes.
I also don’t think Bulls is the way to go but maybe he feels he might get more recognition from there and with the amount of junior players that make SA U20 from the Bulls not to mention the ones that end up making their senior debut so early in their careers, its almost a no brainer.
With this move DHS will now have 2 #10s that they will be looking ouit for with the other being Brendan Cope who’s at the Sharks.
Brendan is a talented lad and the faster that the Sharks coachess see that the better, I certainly think that Rob du Preez is no better than Brendan..but we all know what a contract at the Sharks does for you
@Queenian: That would make an interesting topic
@Queenian: Ja – maybe don’t confuse what happens on the blog between supporters with what happens at the schools. What surprises me is how well the boys in the various A teams know their opposition players from the other schools and for the most part get along with them off the field. Importantly, there is a great deal of mutual respect.
Beet: I think you should make a new heading with the title of “The Top Ten Issues between KZN Schools and Bloggers”
This would make a good discussion point also would help to see what are the real issues at hand.
@Grasshopper: I don’t think we should be too harsh on the Glenwood staff. Like you say, Glenwood are taken to the cleaners for stuff that seems to quite OK for others to do. I wonder if Westville refused to play against Hilton due to the Wright issue -it was after all “against the spirit of the agreement” as TH so neatly put it. I think TK, SE and RD have done a great job but I do agree that after 10 years there needs to be a changing of the guard to keep ideas fresh. SE is hated outside of Glenwood circles for the success he has brought. Don’t fall into the trap yourself. Celebrate it.
Coaching is not the issue.
If you look at all the banter that goes on here between KZN bloggers I would say as an outsider the is an issue at school level. It boarders on been a “soapie”
I mean Westville blame Glenwood who blame Kearsney who blame DHS who blame College who blames the Private Schools who in turn blame Westiville. Talk about re-inventing the wheel.
There is some wrong at ground level here what it is I don’t know as an outsider but there is.
@Griffon: I think it is just as harsh to blame the man playing at center? What did he do wrong? He was one of the few players who showed good intent and broke the line. His defense was good as well. Communication? The mistakes were made before the ball got anywhere near him. Basically you are saying that the problem was Elder? Sorry, but that is just wrong.
@beet: Never heard of Paul Anthony before yesterday.
If the Sharks get more involved in SBR I hope they can stay neutral. Coach the coaches. Offer specialised training to boys from all schools such as scrumming techniques or kicking. They need to support the game by helping to broaden the base and at the same time improve skill levels, something I think we are behind on in world rugby.
I think having someone from the Sharks align themselves with one particular school is totally wrong and if this happened at Westville I would be most unhappy.
@BOG: These warm up games can be taken just as that a warm up game and nothing else.
@beet: Only 1 game was played at Bondedag by each side and KZN played the Pumas- as far as I know
@ Horsefly : KZN has had some big wings in the past, but some not being chosen. The likes of Boulle,who was also a talented soccer player, Coulsen was quite big, Emile Hirsh also one who’s future looked bright till the knee injury/accident that ended a short career. With regards to Webster, I personally feel Bulls was a wrong decision if he’s looking for a long term career there. Bulls have always been good with giving players a good foundation, but with the amount of talent they bring in, its hard to shine or try make it to the top . But he does have 2 years of u19, so we’ll see how he develops there, always been a fan of his. What do you think on the move ?
Well Webster has been confirmed as a Bulls player next year. Well done to him.
@Griffon
Agreed on all fronts. And the thing with Sparks, unfortunately we are seeing it way too often. He’s lucky and must be quite talented to still be up here at the highest level of SBR. Many who are like how he was at U14 end up playing 4th side come matric due to advantage lost.
One thing KZN doesn’t have is big, tall, strong and fast wingers. Last I remember is former GWD boy C.Geldenhuys about 2 years ago.
@ Tarpeys : With regards to Webster and Tedder not being able to control the game, I think its a bit harsh, as they’ve had a Scrummie come Fullback playing outside them so communication won’t be at its best. I also think Marcell hasn’t done much at the week yet. Our defense also hasn’t been that good in the midfield. Another thing I didn’t understand, was why did we insist on throwing at back when Pumas were at best average at lineouts. I thought we’d see Chris Lines feature today, as I was keen on seeing what he brings to the team. Sparks for me has had an average 2 days, compared to what we’ve seen before. I’v watched Sparks a bit since he was u15 and I believe he’s lost the edge he had. U14 and u15 most players in KZN feared Sparks, because of his aggresiveness and hard as nails defense. I’v seen Sparks put props on stretchers before, but he seems to be a totally different player than he used to, although still good.
@Gungets Tuft: ha ha ha, that sounds like a mad hatters tea party with Marne and Pottie in Grade 10, ha ha ha grave mistake, grasshopper should definitely call a petition for that faux pas, not sure TK is up to speed on his mergers and acquisitions legislation.
@Westers: I could be totally offsides already in mentioning the 2 different events in one post. It would be wrong answer your question with a yes.
Things are changing in SBR. I heard of a player who was incl in WP coz he has a contract. This year the only KZN players we know about are the ones joining the Sharks next year. Anyone leaving has been tight lipped up to now. Why? Maybe fear of not being selected for KZN if they disclosed that they were heading elsewhere. It still worries me what are the offers on the cards for school kids approached to move to KZN. Sharks Academy almost always comes up in the discussions, what else is offered/guaranteed.
its not just the laws, conditioning methods and coaching techniques that are changing, the unwritten rules of the game are changing as well.
Anyway Paul Anthony is on board at the Sharks Academy very soon. New person answering to new people above him, perhaps a change in approach. But who knows maybe he has a KZN school of preference. What if that school is Westville?
@McCulleys Workshop: The technical issue with Wright is simple. He left Westville in the 3rd term of Grade 11. It was decided that he would repeat Grade 11, so he was put into Grade 10 at Hilton for a week or two, then the Grade 11 repeat. This neatly fits the HMA which states an U19 player can play if he has “come through the system, I.e. from Grade 10”.
That is my knowledge of how it happened. Happy to be corrected, but the cynic in me wonders how Hilton were allowed to get away with it. All Glenwood then did wrong was not putting Marne and Pottie into grade 10 for a week.
It has long been stated, and I agree, that to spend an extra year at school, not being able to play CW, is just daft. If you are good enough, I think Wright is, then get to the pro ranks as quickly as you can, swim in a pond sized for comfort, start your career as soon as you can.
On that note, I believe the heads have just met again and a reformulation of the HMA might be under way?
@Grasshopper: I do think if schools had non union aligned coaches, or academic staff as coaches, you would see far less pilfering from your neighbours washing line, so to speak. Their career as a teacher is not under threat if they don’t win 92.6% of their games and they wouldn’t be marching to black and white orders from the fish tank. BUT, watch this space, me thinks JS as part of his strategy may just meddle in the minnow tank, with an increased degree of interference and professionalism.
@beet: Are you saying that because he didn’t move he was left out of the CW team?
@Grasshopper: What junior team?…Did we play you guys at the u/15 or u/16 tournaments in Paarl?…If so, well done, I dont think we sent a u/16 team to Wildeklawer this year. What one of our junior teams did do was beat Grey u/14 in Bloem 46-6 this year…first time I can recall a jnr team doing that to Grey in Bloem nogal! we have won previously , but by very small margins…that win in May was huge!..and I was next to the field watching it..one of my mates son’s played in the Grey team…I had lots of free beers after!
@Grasshopper: Tbe problem with your thesis is that the prop Glenwood purchased last year was over age, and it was contrary to the HMA to play him in domestic games, as was the case with Potgieter this year. Due to the number of non KZN games Glenwood play, it possibly is understandable as Glenwood can play those players for the cross border games. There was some debate around Cameron Wrights age, but somehow that was a technical issue. Why would you petition your school if their actions are within the law? What they possibly need to learn is to be slightly better neighbours, it may help in the long run – I’m sure the spat with DHS and Westville should resolve that issue. But in all honesty to be on the receiving end of Hiltons acquisition list, and there is no outcry, would make it seem business as usual for Glenwood to do likewise. We should possibly stop playing silly buggers, but there cant be a headmasters agreement for everything, it comes down to the ethos and culture of the school. Dont for a moment think that it impossible for the sharks/academy to be behind some of this. Your thoughts?
@GreenBlooded: More or less the week that it happened. Was at College just days after BS left. Wish there was another word to sub for Glenwood. Been sitting on it for a long time. Think I just got irritated with comments suggesting it has to be one or the other regarding DG, vs JC. Before it was DG vs AS. It didn’t have to be that way at all. There was enough place in KZN Rep teams for all 3.
@BoishaaiPa: you right, Glenwood were leading 9-6 until a minute to go and Boishaai scored an unconverted try in the corner…pretty tight that….
@BoishaaiPa: haha, people think that but I don’t really. Boishaai is a school Glenwood respects and holds as a school they would like to emulate on the field, that is why the boys were so ecstatic at the win. Think of it as an honour to be held in such regard, a scalp like Boishaai does not come around to often. I think our juniors had a win over Boishaai too. I watched Boishaai the first time in 1991 as a young standard 5 kid, Corne Krige was the captain. I was blown away by the standard of the rugby. Glenwood just lost but that inspired me to play rugby as in most KZN primary schools you play soccer. Boishaai for me are top 5 in SA all time greatest…
@Grasshopper: Oh yes..and that was a 11-9 win..2 points boet!..not 1!
@GreenBlooded: yeah, big bomb shell. What is funny Glenwood players get approached and offered better deals but nothing is ever said. Northwood buy half a team a small ripple of discontent, Hilton poaches 2 Glenwood and a Westville player, small ripple but Glenwood get a prop from Waterkloof who ended up being an ok player and there is world war 3, I smell double standards. I’m really sick of all this finger pointing, Glenwood need to either be totally transparent with dealings or stop them completely, I prefer the latter. All of this kak only started when Erasmus and Dames got involved, tell them to move on. But Kershaw is greedy, he loves success so won’t do it. What will is a petition from 5000 Old boys saying stop the rot or we will boycott our sons and funds. A great school getting tarnished like this is unacceptable especially after 103 years of honour, respect and honesty! Lets start an online petition…
@Grasshopper: That was in 2010,,and again that was on one of our off days yes
..else we would have beaten you by much more!..You take everything way to serious boet!,,Ontspan jou kuite!..
@Tarpeys: Thanks for taking the time to put together a meaningful answer. It might look a little long but makes for interesting reading.
@beet: Wow – that’s quite a bombshell you just dropped. What I find highly surprising is that if this indeed happened last year sometime, why are we only hearing about it now? There are legions of SBR followers with an anti-Glenwood agenda that would have sung this story from the roof-tops. They certainly would not have – to a man – kept this little gem of anti-Glenwood news to themselves. As far as I’m aware – the standoff with College last year was over the alleged approach made to Staples – Goodson was never mentioned.
@GreenBlooded: Its a bit of both..you guys have gone down a bit and other schools have caught up.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Poof Poof, you mean like abracadabra – brilliant comment, let’s just shuffle them around a bit. I did find it very humorous but the one element that’s missing, is a winning culture, college had that, and most of us were on the back foot before we got off the buss. We didn’t expect to win. So although we’ve spread the love more evenly, it would be great to have that gees back at a school like College, no disrespect to them.
@ Beet, to answer your earlier question. I think we were poor and they weren’t that great either. I kept waiting for us to pull ourselves together and take the game by the scruff of the neck, build on the momentum that the Doops were creating and win the game.
How can we be trashed by a team that had no lineout ball. What did we do with all that possession? We gave it straight back to Pumas who then controlled possession with effective forward runners, who varied their runs effectively in terms of taking up in channel one or giving the extra pass to a second runner. They were reasonable clinical at breakdown in terms of retaining possession but the ball they got back was reasonably slow but our tackling was too passive and their runners were able to get over the advantage line time and time again even though the ball was coming out fairly slowly which is criminal. They occasionally go quick ball.
They themselves were very disorganized on defence and Elder’s and in fact Websters try were evidence of how weak their defensive structures were and how feeble their tackling was. We could not take advantage because we couldn’t retain possession after the Doops got us good go forward ball.
Why? For me two things;Lack of attacking structure in terms of manipulating the Defence while making sure that support players are in place to recycle the ball. It was too individualistic. If the coaches don’t offer effect good structures then a good 10 general is needed and we did not have that. Webster and Tedder are not generals, they might be skillful players but they don’t run the game and organize the team when in possession and it does not help to have a 12 who does not impose his himself as a leader of the backline either.
Rather long answer, in short. We were clueless and they took advantage and beat us with slow ball. Poor and embarrassing from players and coaches at this level. 1st team coaching is one thing and elite national competition is another. Our players are operating at 1st team standard, some even below. Not good enough.
@BoishaaiPa: yep, like that. Glenwood had already played about 8 games on the road by the time we played Boishaai. So all our big wins the teams were on off days? What about the 1 point loss to Boishaai two years prior? Last minute win by Boishaai, was another off day for Glenwood? Jeez boet I did not expect that from you…
@Grasshopper: Yes..like our off day against you guys!..
Griffon probably has not even seen a game this year but has a big opinion. Glenwood have beaten Paul Roos twice, Affies twice, Paarl Boys, Grey Bloem, Waterkloof, Monnas, Boland Landbou, Outeniqua, Framesby, Noord Kaap and others in the past 10 years, all massive scalps for a KZN side. What other KZN side can claim those sorts of scalps. Give credit where it’s due. You keep on bringing up the losses to Northwood and Campbell like a broken record, all teams have off days where nothing works those were two examples. Ask KES about how they go from losing to Trinityhouse and then drawing with Monnas. Please boet think before you blurt!
@WBHS Griffon: You’re obviously entitled to your opinions and I understand the whole thing which is about winning a debate against Hopper at all costs but your comment about Jaco Coetzee is off the mark. He is a good player with a year still to go. Much potential. JMO: Jaco would not have played KC 1st XV no.8 but he would have been the leading contender for a starting place on that team at 6 if he wanted the jersey, simply because he is a really good loose forward player.
@BOG: At Bondedag in late June this year
@Grasshopper: Top 10, why don’t you worry about beating George Campbell, a second tier school, before shouting your mouth off!
So the truth comes out about the lucky last minute penalty against Paarl Boy’s, but, carry on claiming it hard.
KZN 2013:
1. Kearsney
2. Westville
3. Glenwood
4. College
5. Hilton
Dream on boet!
@beet:
Interesting point. I wonder how the KZN team would have looked had all the boys that Glenwood offered accepted the scholarships. Methinks it wouldn’t be the sasme team at all.
@Grasshopper: Watch that game again…you beat us with a penalty in the last seconds…a team that was on the road for most of 3 weeks at that stage and not at all the same team (mental wise not player wise) playing in the current WP league. That was warm-up games during festivals. You deserved the win on the day, but good teams move on and become better.
@WBHS Griffon: Jeez boet, get the Glenwood hatred out on a punch bag or something. It’s your sort of attitude that creates the animosity and then you plead not guilty. Anyway, it’s obvious Coetzee would play Kearsney 2nds as Schramm the no1 choice is there, no brainier. Anyway bored of arguing with you. What school in the Top 10 in SA has Westville ever beaten? List please? As for beating Glenwood this year, hmmm on Dixons I don’t think so. When last did Westville beat Glenwood there 10 years ago?
@Grasshopper: Stop trying to justify a very average Glenwood season by always referring back to the Glewnood beating Paarl Boy’s thing – that’s not the yardstick of your season, there are also a few losses to the likes of George Campbell, Kearsney and probably Westville if the schools had played that are the reason why you are probably at best no.3 in KZN this season.
Coetzee would be lucky to make KC 2nd XV!
Something I feel is important for KZNers to know regarding Goodson is that in 2012, he was the final straw that almost resulted in College cancelling rugby fixtures against Glenwood. Like a number of other College sportsmen, DG was made an offer to join Glenwood. Unlike the others he declined. One year later the player that played u13 and u16 KZN representative rugby, had attended the Sharks HP camp/s and has been identified as one of the really good players in KZN 1st XV rugby this year by just about all who have watched him, is suddenly not good enough to make final KZN trials. In fact there are now even 2nd team players better than him according to the selexction process. I don’t buy into the idea that he is so specialised as a no.8 that he can’t play flank either which was a reason I read somewhere along the way for him being excluded from trials. If this was the case he is the only no.8 of his kind in the world and not very good at adapting.
I’m not going to hold out for DG to get a fair shot in 2014. But who knows, things change, maybe John Smit will make a few more changes down at KP.
@beet: When was that? But even if they did, they also beat the Pumas recently
@BOG: We beat them as well not so long ago.
I think Jaco Coetzee has done extremely well this year. Morne Joubert as well. Today must have been Morne’s worst performance ever.
The WP team has a large contingent of Paarl Boys High players. Glenwood beat them at Wildeklawer. Coetzee and Joubert were part of that Glenwood team.
The Glenwood run of form ended against George Campbell but before that it started with a thrashing of Selborne and guys like Coetzee and Joubert were on top form for a number of weeks during this purple patch. They made it almost impossible for the KZN selectors to ignore them
@Tarpeys: How much of today’s result is attributed to us being poor and how much to the Pumas being good?
I feel for the no.12 cause he does not play that possie for his school and to work out the combo with 10 and the defensive responsibilities of a 12 in just a few days was an impossible ask, so discount this, it was a big ask. Otherwise I think KZN did not play to their true potential today. The gameplans were bad as well. The contesting of Pumas lineouts is about the only good thing that came out of this match for us.
In all honesty, I think a game between the Griffons and KZN will be a mismatch. And I honestly mean it.
That’s a bit silly to blame it on the decline of College and DHS simply because the pool of players to pick from would still be exactly the same. If these two were still powerhouses then other schools would not be as strong. I mean face it, the Doops, Visser and Reece Edwards would all probably be DHS boys, the boys at Glenwood most likely at College and DHS and poof what do you have? You have the exact same boys just at different schools.
Its simple, KZN just doesn’t have the same quality or depth talent as other provinces not least of those being WP and the Ethe Bulls.
Earlier I made a reference to the DHS and GWD U14 sides and that they need to taken of, fact is, half of those boys aren’t even from KZN which will explain their high ranking nationwide
Don’t forget, Pumas do this every year. They really use the annual warm up game against KZN as a trial game, we Klap them then they turn turn up a different team at Craven Week.
Schramm…by a country mile, Goodsen, then Coertzee
I Agree with the point that the decline of College and DHS as a powerhouses of SA rugby has negatively affected KZN rugby in a massive way. College still has the gees and courage but that was a winning combination in a bygone era. Even private schools that literally shook in their boots at the mere mention of College with serious bouts of College fever, now fancy a crack even on Goldstones.
@Ruggersake:
That’s what I’m hearing. I’m really hoping its not true.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Huh!!!!
@CapeMan: And a very insular perspective !
@grassy
Its quite obvious that Schramm is better than Coetzee. I say that without even thinking of their schools but just performances.
I’ve seen Coetzee play since U14, he’s a good player and has had hiis best year this year but is still not up to Schramms standards.
As for Goodson, he will come back to captain the KZN Craven Week side next year from the #8 position. He’s an excellent player on par with Schramm
@RBugger: yep, Tedder is great, too me needs to pick up 5 kg or bulk up a little. But as he is such a great cricketer I feel he may not play rugby next year to preserve his cricket career…
Of course Coetzee will be there in 2014, that is a no brainer! But convert him to 6, trust me on that one – his biggest strength lies in his ball play on the ground
Another guy that should be looked at is Tedder from KC -should not be written off
@Buffel: Send me a mail to gungetstuft(at)gmail.com and I will tell you what the background is …
@RBugger: no doubt Schramm is better this year I’m talking 2014. They must find place for Coetzee and Goodsen. The young No8 at Glenwood (ex College) might be another in the mix come 2014!
@HM:
Good points you raise there. I also wonder if Webster has the full support and if word is to be believed he does not . And rumour is that we might just be seeing him in a Bulls jumper next year
@GreenBlooded: spot on! Look at some of the great coaches at schools coaching Under 16, young and passionate!
@Grasshopper: Your statement is not founded – if Coetzee was at KC, he would not start at 8, no way!
He is good, I feel Schramm is a great player. It is not just my oponion, just watch the guy play
@Grasshopper: Schramm has always been a top player – they moved him around a bit early in his career and he had to adapt to number 8, which he has now done.
He has been on the scene so to speak, played Academy last year and KZN 7’s – both tournaments he was outstanding…
I am not attacking Coetzee, I do like his work rate and effort, but Schramm is far better, it is evident when he is not playing!
To be honest, if he can play on Sat – I would put him at centre – we have no strike runners there at all
@Buffel: ok, remember that. I’ll eat my hat if that is the case. Watched Goodsen a few times did not seem that much better but it’s matter of opinion. Everyone on these blogs thinks every player is better than a Glenwood one. If Coetzee was at Kearsney he would be streaks ahead of anybody. What people do is look for errors in the Glenwood boys performances to justify the hooha around selections. I could point out a number of errors by other schools picks but won’t as I know the boys read this
@Buffel: I have huge respect for Ngwenya as a coach. On the positive, he has only been at Northwood for a season so not too attached at the hip yet. On the negative – he needs to prove himself with a Tier 1 1st team. If we ignore that, then there is another unknown name I’d like to throw into the mix – also a DRSU coach for the past few years and current coach at a Tier 2 school and done wonders with their team. Jeremy McLaren – also coaches the Hillcrest Club 1st team. His technical knowledge is superb and he has a great rapport with the boys. Perhaps blood him at GK level first. He will certainly deliver the goods. Maybe this is what is needed – young guys with fresh ideas who are not attached to the main feedstock.
What is so weird, Glenwood beat Paarl Boys, half the WP is from there yet WP are leagues ahead of KZN. Just baffles me!
Houston … We have a problem! Did we not beat the Pumas quite convincingly a few weeks ago? Coaching or Talent? Joubert was dreadful and I am not convinced he has the temperament, might be the reason why SE plays him at wing, Webster showed glimpses but lack confidence and I wonder if he had the full support from the management, Mchardy ordinary and weak pass, Coetzee so so and the hooker nowhere to be seen. If the spine doesn’t fire then the team won’t. The Twins saved us from further embarrassment , caps off to them. Where was the rest of the pack? The backs as a whole might want to pull a hammie. The Pumas had plans ( accept for their line outs) and it showed when they had decoy pods off 9. Tough saying this but we needed more of Elders College GEES on the field today.
@Grasshopper: Sorry-goodson by a country mile and to Captain the side. I don’t know what he did not to be considered for any of the sides is beyond me.
@RBugger: give Coetzee another year and he will be there, learning and gaining experience. A year at this level is huge. Hadn’t heard of Schramm prior to this year….
Western Province showing how its done against this Bulls lineout
@Pedantic: I think Donald Ngwenya is the most qualified coach in the KZN setup and with the right support would bring the best out of the boys. His man management is excellent and what he did with the DRSU u16 team at short notice was a near miracle. Yes,GB has done a good job with the U16 Grant Khomo side as coach but new ideas and new blood would not go amiss. This is my HO before I get attacked from the Pro Westville supporters. Francois Lubbe from Kearsney is also a fountain of knowledge and having worked with Barend very closely over the last few years should also be a consideration.He is a teacher at Kearsney who has played at provincial level and has a good understanding of the boys and how to get the best out of them.
Poor performnace by the boys today, really not good. What is the obsession with off-loading? Sometimes, taking it to ground is the right option.
For me, today proved what a great player Schramm is – badly missed at the back of the scrum! Coetzee did try hard all game, just not in the same league in my oponion.
Doops showed why they are so highly rated, awesome game by both boys!
Backline lacks cohesion and direction! Needs to be sorted out
@Gungets Tuft: Coetzee was not bad with a few silly errors, Coetzee vs Goodsen in 2014!
@GreenBlooded: Agree. I think the debate of choice between Webster and Tedder has been decided on the performance of Tedder against the Bulls and today vs Webster. I felt that Tedder had more time (behind a pack that was being monstered by the Bulls, calmer, better decision making. Webster possibly a better boot but when we should have been taking advantage of all that stolen line out ball we were unable to. Loosies, bar JLdP, were nowhere, in fact cost us with general lack of discipline. My hobby horse, would have loved to see Goodsen running off the side of that scrum…
Average showing by the kzn side. The Doops, Webster and Mazibuko had a good game nonetheless though.
I felt that putting Tedder on at #10 did mean less ball for Webster who was having a good game but was also necessary due to Sparks having another below par game .
Vidima was also avreage for me today .
Mchardy and Elder weren’t too bad. Far too many mistakes by this kzn team
This was a fractured side that tried to play as individuals. This is a team game and must be played that way, eventhough there are positions up for grabs in the 28 . Do the basics well and the rest looks after itself. The Doops were better today and that is where it ends. Early trip back on Saturday. They must put these 1 and a half performances behind them and make sure they finish on a high. 2-1 A LOT BETTER THAN 3-0.
The side without the Doops would have lost by 70. Poor, but not unexpected.
@Grasshopper: I though Tedder was also very good when he came on.
@Grasshopper: what was the score?
Shocking performance from KZN against a side they beat easily a few weeks back. For me only the Doops, Webster and Mazibuko stood out. Elder and McHardy were OK. KZN lost that match rather than the Pumas winning it. Those Pumas were average at best, oh well we will end up playing the first game on the last day….
@Grasshopper: huh – I miss your point?
@Roger: remember before 92 tries were only 4 points. Scorelines were much closer.
@WBHS Griffon: mate, you have no idea about real flak, the sports Westville achieves in does not get anywhere near the same coverage or inspection as rugby. Why are all your posts subtly anti Glenwood? Yes, probably a handful too many Glenwood boys in the squads but 80% of them picked are the best in their positions. Westville probably should have had 3 more in the A side…..
@GreenBlooded: I agree with @CapeMan: – College are nowhere near as strong as they were in the 70’s, 80’s and 90’s. They would have been top 10 more often than not in those decades with DHS a close second. I would like to see KZN craven week results up to 2000 and draw a comparison with the last 13 years – 10 gets you 1 that they were way more competitive in those decades than now
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Does that mean DHS will have a great U14 side again next year?
@grasshopper
Yes they did. But they did have a very tough game against Dale Junior which they won 3-0.
Dale Junior I believe has a great U13 side this year..
@CapeMan: Don’t think College Rugby has fallen – they are still the same hard unrelenting opponents they have always been who concentrate on doing the basics well. I think it is just a case of the other schools catching up in recent times and taking on a more professional approach whereas College has stuck to traditional values. Bar one or two poor performances which every team has once in a while, I think College Rugby is still in a very good place. Were you at the spectacle on Reunion Day this year, where they ran the mighty Green Machine close with 14 men for most of the game, I am sure you would agree.
@Gungets Tuft: Very fair comment Sir, hence Westville being beset with “mowers and machetes” since rising to the top allround in KZN.
The idea of having a coaching staff without bias towards a particular intitution, as evidenced by the current staff with clear biases, we would not have a particular school monopolizing the selections unless they were clear cut head and shoulders above the rest in KZN, which is very much not the case. This has not been the case in the last 5 or so years and clearly indicates that there is a direct correlation between this bias and the poor run of results at the Craven Week in recent times.
Bottom line is we cannot ignore the clear and obvious bias that currently exists with the selections! Time for a fresh, objective approach – how many more poor Craven Weeks do we need to have??
I think that the reason for our perceived poor performance at Craven Week is less about the coaches and more about the simple facts that;
KZN struggles in any given year to assemble an entire squad of quality Craven Week players by which I mean players who can genuinely expect to be contracted to play professional rugby at one of the major unions. This challenge is exacerbated by, certainly in the years that I was most familiar with, compliance with the quota requirements forcing the selection of some players who were substantially off the pace.
Our preparation is woefully inadequate and consequently will always be exposed by the teams that have had time to gel as a team and play more than the odd warm up game together. I have always felt that this has been a major factor in OFS performance at CW over the years.
The coaches – Ryno Combrinck, Tony Richter, Barend Steyn and Sean Everitt etc – that have been involved over recent years have often done quite well with the limited time and resources at their disposal and when they have been able to play their full strength XV have produced the odd “surprise” victory over the likes of the OFS, WP and even the Bulls back in 2005.
@CapeMan: Your one wish is being granted as you speak.
The various Grassies are right about one thing though, KZN comes with Tall Poppy Syndrome built in, so any school that starts making great strides is immediately beset with mowers and machetes (and complaints of fair play). There are well defined parameters within which the schools should be working, stay within those and devil take the hindmost.
Beet – message incoming.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Agreed Horsie, look after those boys now. Didn’t DPHS just beat the best Primary school sides in the EP easily?
Why do we even have coaches then to takes these sides to CW if they are to be shaded from responsibility. We might as well have Bob the builder to take our team craven week since the quality of player we have is all that is going to making the difference at the end of the day. Last year the same coaches were willing to take plaudits for manufacturing that great win against FS and the the wheels fell off against the Lions because we could not adapt tactically. We kicked possession away and allowed lions to attack us for the entire match and the lineouts don’t need more mentioning.
The Lions vs SWD result proves my point exactly, if you have enough talent ( which we do) and the coaches come to the party with strategy to cope in the vital facets of the game that you should be in with a shout.
I just wish that supporters could have a look at the practices and see how shambolic some of sessions are? I just don’t think they are doing all they can to make our side a champion side.
On the upside, kzn does have a GWD U14 team ranked 2nd in SA and a DHS one at about 10th. If the union is serious about doing well in these weeks then they’ll make sure they take care of the players in these two teams . Not often that kzn has two top ten teams so I think its best to make sure that they stay there.
I know that they still have a lot of growing up to do but these boys are talented and no matter how unlucky they might end up being size wise in a few years, they could still be some of the best players in the country if they are taken care of adequately.
I think the biggest influence or factor IMHO to the relative slide in KZN school boy rugby is the fact that Maritzberg College have fallen from the Mighty Power house that they were and DHS have fallen quiet a bit. Maritzberg is still a great rugby school but theyre not the Power house they once were. Times have changed and all the schools have good coaching, gyms and good rugby systems which makes for a more competitive KZN school boy rugby league but KZN needs atleast 2 schools that can genuinely compete year in and year out against the Gims, Paul Roos, Greys and Affies of this world. Glenwood have shown that they are capable of this and it would be great, if I was a KZN native, if Maritzberg College got back there and maybe a Westville or Kearsney could be seen as a Rugby Power house in SA. The fact is that WP have Paarl boys, Gim, Paul Roos and Bishops(not recently) as rugby Power houses in SA and then we have good rugby schools. The Bulls have Affies and Waterkloof as Rugby Power houses and FS have Grey. You need a Rugby Powerhouse at schoolboy level to win cravenweek. The only school in the past 5years that has shown that they are capable of being a power house is Glenwood IMHO. Again, this is just an outsiders perspective.
@Grasshopper: Ellse might not be big but he is as tough as teak. I think it was a huge mistake leaving him out of the CW team, for whatever reason. Having watched Mondays game I think he would have made some difference but we must accept that we were up against the best centre pairing in the competition by all accounts.
@Grasshopper: Ya, shows there is a bit of size out there – think it also comes down to attitude, commitment and dogged-ness!
That Holenstein is massive – he looks the part, but watching him play, imo he lacks agrression – he should dominate…
Size not the be all and end all at centre, it is just the pace and defence!
Biggest props at Kearsney;
Stefaan Grundlingh (Outeniqua) – 184/132kg
Matthew Nelson (Selborne) – 180/129kg
Matthew Jackson (Westville) – 186/128kg
Wynand de Necker (Outeniqua) – 186/128kg
Joseph Potgieter (Glenwood) – 192/121kg
Jan-Louw de Jongh (Paarl Gim) – 184/121kg
Ruan Kramer (Grey Bloem) – 185/117kg
Gavin van den Berg (Paarl Gim) – 185/116kg
Biaggo Pelliccia (Kearsney) – 180/112kg
Riaan Sutherland (Boland Landbou) – 181/112kg
Wessel Strydom (Framesby) – 188/110kg
Koos Tredoux (Glenwood) – 180/110kg
Dean Biggs (Nic Malan) – 186/108kg
Matthys Basson (Boland Landbou) – 190/108kg
Marius Greyvenstein (EG Jansen) – 178/108kg
There maybe others but KZN have a few in there, but not picked!
@Grasshopper: You would just need to keep them out of the “Coffee Shops” otherwise we would have a doping scandal on our hands.
@RBugger: according to the Kearsney festival brochure, Matt Jackson from Westville is 1.86cm and 128kg and Joseph Potgieter from Glenwood is 1.92 and 121kg, the two biggest KZN props at the festival. Potgieter is too old for CW, but it shows we do not lack size in the front row. Hollenstein must be over 115kg. Both Glenwood locks Harmsworth and Teichmann are 197 and 198cm respectively, but both just on or under 100kg so beanpoles and only played 2nd’s at Glenwood. Tredoux is 110kg. Tjide Visser who replaced him is very small but obviously has good technique at 1.75 and 95kg, eish! If only our tall locks could bulk up 10kg. In terms of big centres Ellse is only 180 and 86kg, so not massive. Nela is 88kg.
In terms of size, if you look at the stats, our loose forwards are the biggest in the CW man for man.
Schramm at 192 and 101kg, Du Preez at 194 and 110kg and Mazibuko at 1.89 and 90kg. We lack size where it does count, namely the front row. Dan is 196 which is by no means short – but he can only really jump at 2, too heavy to jumo in the middle and this is where we also struggle a little – Vidima is not a lock, he is too short, but still a great loose player.
Our wings look quick and Lines coming in at Full Back will also add good pace. Would be nice if we had a big centre to get over the advantage line!
@GreenBlooded: Breeding,…..that’s a 17 year plan for KZN rugby. You guys are not doing bad at all,..your opposition was the strongest at CW so far and they played very well on the day. Must agree on the beauties from KZN, your ” flashers ” at the super 15 games are very sexy. You will upset Keegan Daniel if you promote breeding with the “boertjies” he has allready got a problem.There is some very good talent in KZN,don’t think it’s the coaching.
@McCulleys Workshop: Or the Dutch, jeez those blokes are flippin tall and I’m 1.93 so not short. I walked around Utrecht in Holland and every bloke was taller than me and most of the women…
@oldschool: I agree – we are being far too harsh on the coaches. Time and time again we see that successful teams are those that have bonded over a period of time. I don’t know that I would want to downgrade our breeding stock by subjecting our KZN beauties to the Neanderthals from Gauteng to resolve it though.
@oldschool: seems like we need to line them up with the Masai, we need some jumpers, so to speak.
@Tarpeys: I think that you are putting far to much emphasis on the coaching ……how can coaches have a significant impact on a team in a few weeks of being with them ……..the reality is the quality of stock from 1 to 22 ….unfortunately we in KZN are the pretenders …….the difference is …..we in KZN love rugby ….but the Dutchie (no offence) live rugby 24/7……rugby from the age of 15 or so starts with genetics ….then throw in passion , coaching , skill , technique etc …….we unfortunately are missing the key ingredient ……so coaching cant fix that only …..possible solution is breeding ….get our daughters to form relations with the tough farming stock of Rustenburg and carltonville so that our offspring can maybe have a chance at being of the right genetic make up !!!
@beet: It shows.
@Westers: @McCulleys Workshop: about the 2-3 week break before the end of the 2nd term, look around at other provinces. There is a lack of inter-schools and/or cup rugby activity in Pretoria, Krugersdorp and Bloem in the run up to the holidays. They have obviously twigged on years back that this time needs to be used to prep for CW.
@Gungets Tuft: Interesting you mention the ‘obstruction from badly timed dummy runs’ – an issue I have been wrestling with for a while now. It is a grey area that is being exploited by coaches methinks. I wonder at what stage the referees are going to be instructed to clamp down on this and what the guidelines are going to be?
@McCulleys Workshop: There most certainly is an anti-Glenwood sentiment, not just here on the blog but everywhere. If there is an opportunity to dig the knife in, there will always be someone to give it a twist. It is mostly motivated by jealousy and the inability of some to accept that the skollies from Umbilo have had a great decade on the rugger field. Unfortunately for some, the trend is set to continue for the next decade or so in the swimming pool so be prepared to here a heap of bitching and whining from slightly up the N3 on that score as well.
It used to bother me – but I have since learned to take it from whence it comes. I actually enjoy it now. When it stops I will send an email to TK and tell him to shine up.
@RBugger: Very good points and brings bloggers like me back down to reality. Sometimes a heavy loss causes questions and frustrations, but that loss was not as bad as it looks. 17-17 at halftime is a good achievement up there, especially for a side from the coast. Also, in future if we could just find two decent locks (not retreaded flanks) then we will be fine. Losing line-outs is massive and that has been a problem for us for a while, except when we have had waterpolo players jumping, handskills too good. I have probably been a little unfair on the boys. Good luck today boys and give it your all….
@McCulleys Workshop: Well said. Lets hold thumbs for this afternoon, if we do well we might still get a run against a ‘rated’ team this weekend. I can’t decide if the pressure is on or off after the Bulls game but know our boys and management will do us proud. They would not have been sitting on their hands and will come out well prepared.
@McCulleys Workshop: Good point, I just don’t like seeing newspaper articles about feuds, overage players etc it’s damaging to the schools reputation. Maybe all of this is heightened on blogs like this and the majority of people are blissfully unaware. However, if there are serious wrong goings on it needs to be weeded out quickly. I for one don’t like the whole religious angle Sean and co have gone down, this is sport and happy clappy style religious actions are not needed. In my day, we trained hard, played hard for the pride in our school, ourselves, our mates and our families. But that is just my personal opinion, others might like the prayer before the game etc, not me…
@RBugger: From the little I have managed to watch the refs have not covered themselves in glory. Examples are those mentioned, tries from obvious double movements and not releasing the ball when held in tackles, so many obstructions from badly timed dummy runs that they can’t be counted.
I am impressed with the general off-the-ball discipline. Niggle at a minimum, nice to see.
@Grasshopper: Get rid of this Glenwood hatred thing, there are a number of pissed off bloggers, mainly from Westville, but there is no overt tall poppy Glenwood hatred thing by the majority, neither are we jealous. Schools are going to do what they perceive to be best for their audience and counter balance their culture and reputation with their desire to be perceived as successful. And Glenwood, along with Westville, have been deemed to be successful sort after schools where many in the city would like to send their sons. Fantastic.
The KZN boys are being given a rough deal here! Just yesterday, SWD, one of the sides fancied to contest the final, lost to a Lions team who are not that highly rated – my point being, this is CW and anything can happen on any given day to any team.
KZN gave a good account of themselves against one of the best teams year in and year out at CW – just last year they smashed a very strong Lions team by 40 points in the final.
KZN had numerous opportunities in the game which were not converted into points. They had a penalty try against them which was ridiculous – the blady wing had already over-run the ball, regardless of the fact Joubert tackled him without the ball!
Jean Luc tried to pass the ball left early in the game for a certain try, and one of the Bulls players knocked the ball down – why was this player not yellow carded?
As a unit, the Bulls are the best team at CW – KZN can be proud of their efforts and should not be receiving such flak! Maybe the coaches are a bit long in the tooth, but I do not think any other coach could have done better.
Schramm going off was also a big blow, he is one of the main lineout forwards and as vice captain, a big player and leader in the team. Vermaak did not look well at all and we also lost Koos who was doing blady well in the scrums.
I hope they have a stormer today and give a great account of themselves
@McCulleys Workshop: I don’t know, not close enough to the school to know. But from what it looks like Sean obviously is with his coaching etc. I think Straueli is involved too, which scares me. I would only be happy with a total clean-out of the 1st and 2nd team coaches, any allegiances etc, but that must happen at all schools in KZN too. All this cloak and dagger is not good for the schools and the union. Even bring in a pommie coach or something if they want a professional. I am gatvol of all this Glenwood hatred and am going to do my best to ask the powers that be as many questions as I can and get Old Boys petitions etc signed. This rot needs to stop!!
@Grasshopper: simple question – are Glenwood aligned to and supported by the sharks/academy 1. By Sharks providing a coach 2. By sharks identifying players from other regions and placing them in Glenwood
Sorry about my grammer; iPad typing in Pietersburg cold!
Into the third term
@Westers: flippin great idea. 2 – 3 week break before the end of the term, and play for 3 – 4 weeks into the second term. No doubt your points are totally valid. Take Shramm and both Du Preez out and we are in trouble.
@McCulleys Workshop: I am not convinced that we don’t have the talent pool to compete but having said that I wonder what KC and CW side would have been like without Schram and the Du Preezs. I wonder if it won’t be best for the brothers to play lock? Just don’t seem fit and quick enough while other good loosies are available, are they carrying injuries? Anyway, when was the last time we knocked over one or two big provinces at the CW? A record of the last ten years will be interesting. A factor that must not be forgotten is the fact is that most other Unions schools are concentrated or close to another Union ie easier to practice and play friendlies.
@McCulleys Workshop: low blow with the Sharkswood statement, very low….never thought you would go there unless you meaning Northwood…
I stayed up late the other evening with Rob du Preez, Mike Dick from DPHS, and Noel Ingle. The discussion were inciteful. There was a concencus among us that the first week of the holidays should be set aside for the CW team to go to a three of four day camp, instead of chilling at home. We also could bring in specialists for the multitude of aspects of the game to help our boys fine tune those areas of the game, like individuals who take the Investic Week. The Sharks need to invest in our boys too, have have these specialists assist the two coaches.
I think the team has been dogged by injuries which have are always tough.
Having seen them yesterday, they look positive, but their opposition whom week beat two weeks ago, also are looking very good against WP.
They is going to be a game, that’s for sure.
@Westers: but SE is the assistant coach so how can he have much say? BS is the main coach as also linked to the Sharks in some way. The Sharks Academy sponsors the Kearsney Festival and academy bursaries. I have suggested a few times that the top 10 schools coaches should pick a squad by vote and then bring in a professional coach…
@McCulleys Workshop: I agree with you. Each year we have only two or three schools who are Top 20 material and even then it is normally not Top 10. We do not have the same number of schools and therefore no depth. And this situation will not change. We need to do something different if we are to compete at CW.
With lack of depth we are exposed when some of the better players get injured. This year proves the point. We know there are players who were injured before the tournament but I also think we sent players carrying injuries because of lack of quality backup.
Our schools play too many big games from the end of May and into June.
My suggestion, extend rugby into the third term for all schools and take a break for two or three weeks at the end of the second term. This will allow all boys to concentrate on exams and give the bodies a rest. Fitness and skills training can continue at a reduced level, no contact. Pick the CW week team earlier and give them five or six weeks to train together and gel as a team. That way we might have a fresher team at CW. Just an idea.
@beet: Beet, I think we are fighting the wind, the penchant to produce winning sides at all costs has taken over and I don’t see any way of reversing the trend. It is admirable for a school to stand by its value system, but then we as supporters must expect less and realize that a winning percentage of 60% is great. I don’t believe in the quota system in any field of life, as much as I don’t agree with renting hired guns to bolster ones forces at grade 11 and 12 level, as much as I don’t agree with union intervention and ‘placing players’ within certain schools, as much as I disagree with professional non academic coaches at schools, but there is so much grey in the matter, why not do all of it full force. Sharkswood Academy.
@Grasshopper: My problem is not with Glenwood as a school or SE as a coach. The real issue I have is the connection which SE has to the Sharks and the perception that players move to Glenwood because of this connection. It is unhealthy, IMO, from a broader schools perspective. I think his coaching roles have stretched him too far and Glenwood have felt the effect of this at times.
If a coach is going to be appointed from within the schools then there should be a limit to the number of years he is appointed as coach, maybe 2 years. Keep it fresh and give all school coaches something to aspire to.
@Grasshopper: I don’t agree with the rankings. The gap between Gim, Outenique, Garsfontein and our sides was massive. Let alone Grey or Affies. Look at the scores over the last 5 years and no doubt there will be a significant gap. Honestly, we are not in the same league. Then you add the pooled resources of Garsfontein, Affies, Kloof and the gap is even more exacerbated.
@McCulleys Workshop: Good point.
I think this one comes back to where do we draw the line between professionalism and traditional values in school rugby. Do we want kids who grew up in KZN and who came through our own high school system from Gr.8 to be our representatives at 1st XV level and CW or do we want imports to be brought in at the 11th hour to take those places away from homegrowns just for the sake of winning?
@McCulleys Workshop: that is the key, no professional jealousy but tons at parent and Old Boy level. Tallest trees catch the wind comes to mind. What is boggling is that Glenwood still gets abuse when they have not been the tallest tree in the past 2 years. Other schools have caught up, nothing said there except maybe Northwoods huge recruitment drive…
While Mike Vowles was involved at Westville, he was a club rugby coach and still is. I believe that more recently he was shortlisted for the jobs at DHS (HoR) and Northwood (HC replacement for Swys).
@McCulleys Workshop: agree with you mostly, we probably have the smallest pool of players from the traditional big provinces and yes sometimes lack size at lock, not in other positions. Our PD kids prefer soccer and basketball so we are a little short there compared to other regions. For me if Kearsney, Westville, College and Glenwood can be in the top 20 regularly we should at least be in the top 6 provinces with the Bulls, WP, Lions, EP and Greystaat. The Michaelhouse coach has done well with limited resources, maybe he should be considered?
@Grasshopper: Come on you know the complexities, I don’t need to lay them out for you and start digging the trenches at 45th cutting again do I? There is no professional jealousy towards Glenwood, it is in your minds.
@Tarpeys: @Grasshopper: I must say I disagree somewhat on this issue. Our talent pool just doesn’t seem to be on a par with the other larger unions, we are short on size and we haven’t hired, leased or rented sufficient PD talent who all warrant a place in the starting lineup. RC didn’t cover himself in glory, neither has BS and neither has SE, is it player, coaching, selection, PD recruitment? Seems we have an overrated opinion of our schoolboy rugby prowess in KZN, we just aren’t up there, as evidenced by the lack of success by our sides against the big guns in cross border derby’s.
@McCulleys Workshop: capeman’s view can’t be discarded just because he is from the Cape, it’s a genuine view from an outsider. Also, their are tons of ex Natalians down here including myself. Although I’m looking at moving back to KZN next year.
@CapeMan: This is a debate I would recuse myself from if I were you, looking at the whole picture from CT is hardly relevant, so as objective as I’m sure you’re trying to be, you are not.
@CapeMan: agreed Capeman, but Sean Erasmus has been there a decade now, probably 5 years as head coach at Glenwood. The past 2 seasons have been erratic at best, going from highs of beating the likes of Affies, Grey Bloem, Monnas, Paul Roos, Paarl Boys, Outeniqua, Waterkloof etc to lows of losing to Campbell and Northwood. I feel Sean is a great coach but I would like a change. An Old Boy or teacher to come in with fresh ideas and not involved with the province and buying in players. I want an ethos of give the boys there a chance, remove the heavy religious factor and to play good Glenwood rugby. I don’t care if we lose as long as the boys are having fun. I would also like to see the number of fixtures reduced, 22 a year is too much. Fixtures should be traditional and against traditional English schools as much as possible. One Easter festival only and maybe home and away fixtures vs College and Westville. All the negativity and finger pointing at Glenwood is unwanted…
Yes, they did lose to Campbell, but they did beat Paarl Boys. Dont forget that when making fun of Glenwood :wink:. Look at the whole picture.
Every province or most provinces to my knowledge have coaches from the schools in that province. Its not as if the success of WP, Free State and the Bulls at CW is due to the fact that they have independent coaching. They too have coaches from schools. I get that a coach from a specific school shows a bit of bias towards the players from his school but thats just human nature and the fact that theyve seen a lot more of those boys play. Come now KZN chaps. Stop blaming the affiliation of Sean Erasmus to Glenwood as your reference point to KZNs failure at CW. Before he was there, you still couldnt win CW. I just feel most KZN bloggers love to hate Glenwood and because they have been successful in the past decade or so. Glenwood now have the pedigree of rugby powerhouse in the country. As much as Westville have been really good in KZN, I dont think they would have beaten Paarl Boys which Glenwood did do. Glenwood have shown that they can mix it up with the big boys. Im just looking from the outside in. DOnt blame the failures of KZN on Glenwood. Its just a cheap shot because some people that blog here are bitter that Glenwood has become the dominant factor in KZN. This is just how it looks like from an outsiders perspective.
@ Westers
Well said on ure first comment. Problem we would all have is the bias’ness that could be perceived and hence an outsider so to speak would fit……….. but how………. GB is a good coach who has been in the ranks for many moons and all …..and done well for WBHS… but would he be bias? perhaps……….. thats the problem with all though huh so always a tough one. SE and co defo should move on.. grassy even admits so.
Yep that coach of NW – unfortunately has bad results but needs be given a chance with a better team……….
Yeah i heard he was in the club mix.. as in Mike vowles……. good chap that. Astute… and if even has half his brother Jaysons brain then you onto a winner!!!
@Rhino: I know Vowles was coaching club rugby (I think at Rovers) last year but I am not sure if he is still there.
He would be a good choice.
@Pedantic: You can only play who is put in front of you so to discount GB on that basis would be unfair. I don’t think GB is any worse or better than any of the other coaches currently in the schools system.
Having said that, I am in favour of a neutral coaching team, i.e. not affiliated to any particular school. I therefore would not consider DN unless he gave up the Northwood coaching job. I don’t know the man and he may tick many boxes, but it didn’t help Northwood much this year. I am maybe being a bit unfair as I know he also came in at late notice.
@ Pedantic, yes I agree that the opposition at GK was not of the highest calibre but of the current crop of coaches that are in the system, he’s the best option at the moment.
Donald Ngwenya also excites me. With the right introduction and exposure, he can become an interesting option in the future.
@Tarpeys: If the rest of the week is irrelevant, then so is the KZN GK team’s 3 wins from 3 – one can hardly say their opposition was anything more than mediocre – so there goes the Grant Bell argument. Not a fan … sorry.
If there is to be a change (and I think there will be), I would like to see Donald Ngwenya get into the mix as an assistant initially – he ticks many boxes.
@Grasshopper
Hey so what hapened to Mike Vowles? you say fell out the system but as in.. he no longer coaching rugger? I will be seeing his boet Jayson this Sat at our 93 WBHS London reunion so will ask but just curious.. i know Mike but its been years so just curious.
Grant Bell…… cool man.. was my old english teacher in std6/7 – nice bloke.. defo shot up the ranks as back then he was like u13d or something but i have seen his advancement and its great.
@ gimmie. The rest of the Week is slightly irrelevant now. We are going to be playing fellow losers who are also swimming in the same pool of mediocrity. These are experienced men, they know the challenges but they have failed to come up with solutions. Next please. The succession planning also needs attention. These coaches fail and are replaced by similar coaches who achieve similarly average results. SE’s record at Academy week was not all that exciting and he moved to Craven week.
@ HM, I agree that the coach should be a teacher coaching at a school. The reasons you mentioned are crucial. I’m just not ready to concede that the results we’ve achieve in the last few years are a reflection of our provincial strength.
Change in coaching?
You must be joking. Swak smaak.
What should be the deciding factors for a teacher to be appointed? Academy week teams, 6 from 9, pretty good I would say. Did any KZN players stand out? If not then the CW have the correct players. How do you really know who is a good coach? Which of the current coaches are able to take a average team through a season while improving all the time? Jake White has more respect now than after he won the WC.
@gimmie: agreed, our 3 best sides lost to Gimmies by 20 or more points so losing to the Bulls by that margin is no surprise or train smash. The boys just need to gel and play well tomorrow.
@tarpeys, guys I really thing you are misjudging the strength of your available talent. Your top schools are some way behind the top 5 schools. The Bulls are probably the strongest side with a team drawed from very strong schools. I thought your team was competitive for a long time….let’s first see how they perform before we make conclusions…
@Ruggersake: Grant Bell is actually an actor, singer, teacher and coach from Westville. He is a good bloke and not a bad coach, I think there are a few better than him even at Westville. He wouldn’t let KZN if he had the right assistants…
Who is Grant Bell…..Why aim at a relative unknown, why not look outside of the normal basis for reference……Come on John Smit surely you could shed some light here afterall home grown talent is what KZN should be nurturing.
@HM: Bring in ‘Toppy’ Hortop he’ll sort it all, if only he was 20 years younger. Coached me at Glenwood and at Varsity, what a legend and believes in core school values and keeping it real. Glenwood are very very lucky to have a man, coach and teacher like him…
@Tarpeys: My reasoning is that I suspect the trend of late will be used ie GB must work with Academy teams first and then make his way up. I did not question his ability etc. It has to be a school teacher and should never be somebody outside the Academic system. If a pro coach, for a lack of a better word, be appointed it will be a bullet through the head of all the young male teachers who takes their rugby seriously. We already have a ailing system and need every posible way to keep teachers motivated. May the right people get the job, I say, but as you can see its going to be tricky.
@Westers: Yep, someone with a passion for schoolboy rugby, even Dick Muir! Someone living in KZN who can actually go and watch some of the big derbies and actually go. Joel Stransky, Errol Stewart, David Campese the list is endless……pay them properly too. Maybe we should push for Beet ;-)
@Grasshopper: I like the idea of a neutral – someone who is not directly involved in any one school. Your idea of Reece-Edwards or Bashford would be good. I don’t think they would be biased. The fact they have been out of schools rugby for several years would probalby be a good thing.
@Grasshopper: Bashie would be a great choice. No way would he allow himself to be swayed by school allegiance. Could just as easily say the same of Reece but I do not know him.
@Tarpeys: Mike is a friend of mine and yes no longer in the system. Another very good young coach is Kane Mavrodaris coaching up in JHB, he was at Westville for a few years. I wish I had the time to get involved in coaching too. Agreed on Dames….not quite there. Sibson at Glenwood is pretty good too or La Marque, but again school allegiances are not good…
@HM why would you consider Grant Bell as an outsider. He has done brlliliantly well with the U16s for a number of years and the only coach achieve 3 from 3 at a week in the last 5 years ( could be more)He should be considered a front runner with his astute rugby game as all the other coaches in the system have questionable records. RD has not stepped up as a head coach and is not good enough. KZN teams prepare poorly and they get poor results. Go watch practices and you’ll see. Pity Mike Vowels is not in the system anymore.
@HM: @HM: I really hope not, too much negative connotations around those two. If they can officially break ties with Glenwood then fine, but whilst they are still coaching at Glenwood a definite NO. The issues and ranting about selections will continue if that happened. We really need an independent coaching team, why not Reece-Edwards or Bashford as they won’t have jobs soon. Although, both might have a bias to Northwood and Westville…
Does somebody have the last couple of years results of the Craven Week team. If I am not mistaken its been pretty dismal. Teams are normally 90% correctly selected with a 10% variant for personal preferences ie Lambie or Steyn. Enough people have said that the CW team is always very close to the correctly selected team and it therfore begs the question around coaching/managing. I say coaching/managing as one can ask how much influence a coach can have in such a short period of time while some will believe its all about preparation ie mental, set pieces, team spirit, defense systems, common goal etc. ie managing. Both has to have role to play and I wonder if the combinations of the last couple of years have worked. It is believed that BS will finish this year as KC coach. It makes sense as he will finish on a high while not the same can be said about the KZN teams he was involved in. If he does finish we should see SE take over and many will be happy with that. So what’s his record like?, others will ask. Nobody touches Glenwoods desire to win and nobody comes close to the time, money and resources they use. RD And SE spends close to everyday coaching at the Sharks Academy and their technical ability cannot be questioned but… How is it then possible that they don’t completely dominate in KZN? Next question; if SE becomes the CW coach who will assist him? Names in the hat should be, Rudie Dames, Antonie Prinsloo, Deon Gereke, Ryan Kyle, Michael Schwarts or Trompie Nonshinga. They are the u18 coaches while Grant Bell will be an outside option. If the normal routine is followed then it will be RD. He is a backline coach, and the longest serving u18 KZN coach and SE can go back to his forwards.
@Tarpeys: agreed, with 3 teams in the top 20, sometimes 4 our provincial side should be top 4 at least. We did beat WP a couple of years ago and came close to beating Greystaat but mediocrity should not be accepted. Time for a clean out…
I just feel that the coaches have reached their ceiling. We must either accept that we ( kZN) are average and we’ll never sit at the table with the big unions or get better coaches that are more creative and give the team a tactical edge at the week. Maybe the selectors should also take a long look at themselves for picking some players that are way out of their depth with coaches that are out of their depth.
@Griffon: yay, a proper adult post from a WOB, thanks! Agreed that is why I would honestly like to see Erasmus move on both at Glenwood and KZN. The past 2 years have been average for us so we need fresh ideas. It’s not that Sean is no longer any good, just freshen up like the Sharks did with Plum. My good mate Mike Vowles had it happen to him at Westville, did nothing wrong but Westville had other plans. I do genuinely think Ellse would have made a difference, he and Jackson were my picks for MOM when Westville played Framesby. Also your injured captain should have made it. I feel Glenwood did have about 3 too many in the A team and about 3 too many in the B side. I like the running style of this years side, a big change to the usual bash and crash big Glenwood packs of the last 100 years….it’s always been our strength…
@Grasshopper: At least we didn’t have 10 KZN selections with the side that lost to Pioneer
@Grasshopper: That’s a silly remark about Kriese, Coombe etc, why don’t you take it even further…when you dominating KZN schools rugby on a regular basis then 5 – 10 selections or whatever you getting every year is justified, but, there’s a direct correlation between the 3rd or 4th ranked team in the province dominating the selections, make sense?
@WBHS Griffon: I know what KZN should do is appoint Grant Bell as the coach, Dieter Kriese as the manager and Guy Coombe as backline coach, then select the whole Westville 1st and 2nd team in the CW & Academy sides. Trevor Hall could sort the finances and sponsors. Then when the team loses to a proper Tier 1 province they can then take the heat. Sean Erasmus is not my favorite coach but he has done some good at Glenwood, but for me there is a time and place to move on which is now….Ellse, Jackson and Martin are the only 3 Westville players who could have been there….
@Grasshopper: I think there is a lot of value in the comment made by Tarpeys, it’s good to be realistic about the situation from time to time…of course that’s going to be difficult for you to understand because you’re so blatantly one sided that you can’t even except reality most of the time.
Typical response…you and your “GreenMom” – what a joke!
@Tarpeys: 100% agreed, I think Grant Bell would slot in perfectly here. KZN are perennial underachievers at the Craven Week. Time to clean out all that Sean Erasmus and little Glenwood “broderbund” that seem to have wrestled control of KZN coaching / selections. Well spoken Sir, good point.
Typical KZN craven week performance. Our rugby, coaching and players are generally poor at the week. We needed men out there and we got the usual mice. The tackling was shocking, breakdown too passive and the perennial problem of line outs. You’d think that with two forwards coaches in Steyn and Erasmus we’d have better ideas on how to cope at line out time. Our coaches do well with good players against generally modest opposition in the province not much coaching goes on because tactically we are found wanting at CW. We got a hiding today. Time for a more tactically astute and student of the game Grant Bell to take over and end the farce of two forwards coaches that are clueless as a combination. Maybe they get in each other’s way.