The Craven Week match-day 1 and 2 fixtures are not quite what the doctor ordered. It was anticipated that the Bulls and Western Province would be kept apart, to set up the potential unofficial final that viewers were robbed of in 2012.
So it’s not that straightforward for Province. The controversially selected WP team have already lost the services of JD Schickerling and Ryan Oosthuizen. First up they will have to contend with what should be a relatively strong Pumas team which is bound to contain a number of top achieving Nelspruit and HTS Middelburg players. If WP negotiates that obstacle, they will in all likelihood be up against the winners the Blue Bulls versus KwaZulu-Natal on match-day 3.
The Bulls are the pre-tournament favourites. Boosted by a number of quality imported PDI’s that help them overcome having to rely on local homegrown players, the Bulls are expected to make it to the final and win it. Easier said than done though and if there is one team in this group that can stop them from reaching that goal, it’s probably going to be Province. KZN have won there previous two opening games at Craven Week against teams with better Craven Week success track records and a giant-killing isn’t beyond this year’s team either. They have the capability to cause a massive upset. However it’s also been a while since KZN won two matches at Craven Week yet alone two in row. So statistically the odds are heavily stacked against them progressing to the final.
In the Day-2 group, one would normally expect Greystaat to rule the roost here. However with Grey College not having any PDI’s in their 1st team, it looks like a good portion of this year’s Free State team could come from Louis Botha, who have not been high flyers this season. Free State will be beatable. There will definitely be a huge advantage going in for SWD, who look like a team with quality and cohesion thanks to their team consisting almost entirely of Outeniqua and Oakdale players. EP should have a formible pack of forwards which is bound to give flyhalf Ernst Stapelberg the chance to shine, so don’t right them off either. The Lions are another team that can never be underestimated. For all we know this group could be decided by a match involving EP versus the Lions and not SWD against Free State as most people anticipate. And who’s to say that the Valke won’t have something to contribute to the determination of which team plays in the Saturday afternoon main game. The Valke are able to depend on players from top achieving EG Jansen and Kempton Park. They are in a position to put a very competitive team on the park this July.
| DATE, TIME | FIXTURE | |
|---|---|---|
| Mon, 08 JULY 2013 | ||
| 09h20 | Griquas v Zimbabwe | |
| 10h40 | Border v Namibia | |
| 12h00 | WP v Pumas | |
| 13h20 | Blue Bulls v KZN | |
| 14h40 | OPENING CEREMONY | |
| 15h40 | Limpopo Blue Bulls v Boland | |
| Tue, 09 July 2013 | ||
| 10h10 | EP CD v Leopards | |
| 11h30 | Griquas CD v Border CD | |
| 12h50 | Valke v Griffons | |
| 14h10 | Lions v SWD | |
| 15h30 | EP v Free State |
@McCulleys Workshop: If Koster was the give away I think that you are barking up the wrong tree – albeit a logical one – 2007/8 MHS & CW and the personal connection – but there is another possibilty – you are assuming one individual over both years.
@meadows: I did. Koster was the give away.
@McCulleys Workshop: Parental – as it was in the 2008 side – at MHS and Craven Week – figure it out
@valke: Wasn’t sure what to use.
Thanks Beet !! Wasn’t what to use.
@BuffelsCM: Did a calculation on the pack weight of the Kwagga squad. 863kg’s and very mobile. Size with mobility a nice option for the coach. Looking at all big packs in premier schools at the moment, there is mobility a plenty. @ Greenmom …keep in mind that at the premier schools the training program run for almost 12 months of the year.
@beet: Agreed.
@meadows: meadows what was your interest in that 2007 side? I seem to remember you converting from close to your own 25.
@beet: Yes beet, I’ve mentioned it before but I’ll repeat it: during the Kwagga Week for U/14 and U/15 boys earlier this year, I had a look at the brochure with the stats of the boys (some teams didn’t even provide it – the number I’ll mention could therefore be more) and there were ± 14 boys of 100 kg +
Somebody that used to coach with me played in the 1974 or ’75 CW. He still has the brochure – there were only 4 players heavier than 100 kg ! (One of them being Flip vd Merwe sr): an age difference of at least 3 years or more!!
As far as I can recall the pack of the 2012 SA Schools weighed the same as the pack of the Springboks in 1992. So the times have indeed changed !
@Koos Roos: dankie, lyk my hierdie geveg kom al lank, miskien is n CW platteland Dan die opsie maar Dan gaan die WP stad maar sukkel om iets te wen as ek na die onlangse uitslae kyk
@GREENMOM: The pack sizes of SBR teams and senior teams gets heavier each year. And the bigger players seem to be getting faster as well as training methods improve. When contracting for after school, all the SA Unions prefer props 1.85m and taller.
When Jake White had a 900kg pack during his time as Bok coach I would shake my head in disbelief. Now we sometimes see 920kg packs.
Being big isn’t necessarily equal to being overweight but big is certainly in far greater demand, when skills are equal.
The only thing that seems to have changed is that the small props have to work much harder for recognition after school. A prop shorter than 1.80m really has his work cut out for him.
@Grasshopper: Witness the fallacy around weight and size the past few weeks.The heavies only shine for 15-20 minutes. Then the lack of fitness and power kicks in. Slow to lie outs, slow to rucks, arriving after the lighter guys has cleared it. THe new rules suits lighter props with mobility. Check how many tries are scored- not by the GIG guys but by the lighter props and scrum halves. With current rules the game is too fast for fat overweight players. their impact is limited to adding mass. no Skill or mobility. Compare Beast to the fatties in other provinces. Beast is a complete rugby carrying no fat. The ideal role model for props.
@Predator: Well it’s obvious that the Bulls have the money to give them good contracts. It’s a pity that the good youngsters can’t stay at the smaller unions. The schools (in this case Outeniqua) put so much work and effort into them but then they are lost to the region……..I guess this will never change
@RBugger: Number 11 is Duhan vd Merwe ( SA Schools winger last year and Sa Sevens ) and his inside centre Warrick Gelant ( Sa schools and Sa Sevens last year ) . These two is very dangerous when they gel on the day, I have seen them make a mockery of some defense lines this year. Only Paarl Gim managed to contain them to a certain extend. You cannot for one moment let your guard down against these two. Both are contracted to the BB allready,…wonder why? Really two very talented boys in the school boy rugby system at the moment.
@RBugger: Are you speaking about Duhan v d Merwe ? I think he is about 1.93m tall,weighs about 96 kgs and runs the 100m in less than 11 seconds !
He and the inside centre – I’ve forgotten his name – are both off to the Bulls next year
@RBugger: Always exceptions to the rule. But in the next game pay attention to the front row during scrum time. Use it or loose it.
Regarding the size of your tight five. KES also had small forwards but rucked like demons and tackled their hearts out. After keeping Affies to a slight lead at half time. A clever coach told the boys that they must start playing wide and I stand to be corrected the game was over in 10 minutes. Keep it tight and slow. BB/Affies do not like that.
@Predator: Ya for sure, if nothing else, SWD will certainly be a team to watch, in fact, probably the most entertaining team at CW… Your flyhalf is the most exciting backline player I have seen this year – reminds me of Brent Russell at school.
Look, they may well win CW, i just felt that GIM squeezed them a bit and shut them down. But like you say, could have just been an off day.
What is the wings name – the massive guy who plays 11? He is also fantastic, very commited and strong – runs at full pace all the time.
@RBugger: It was the worst that I have seen them play in 2 years,… not looking for any excuses,..Gim played exceptional on the day. You are also as good as your oposition allow you to be, Gim had a counter for everything and their defense was excellent. The props might be overweight but they are strong scrummers and runners with the ball. I based my comment for CW on the fact that these boys have played together for most of the season and gel well in combinations, the same accounts for the Oakdale players in the team. Never the less an exciting team to watch at CW. SWD has for many years not really being a threat at CW but the standard have improved drastically as you can gather from the premier school rankings the past two years. Definately not an easy opponent any more!!
@Predator: Not sure about SWD…
Gim sorted out Outenique in George, to me, the scoreline was flattering as Outenique scored 2 late tries.
Will agree with you on Human the flyhalf, great player to watch – as well as the centre and wing.
You may disagree on my sentiment, but I feel the Outenique front row is very average – their props look a bit over-weight to me and seem to enjoy getting hands on ball.
The Bloem props are far smaller, but just so much more effective.
SWD will be very good at 8,9,10,12 and 11
SWD will be the team to beat this year. My prediction is SWD and BB in the final. They have without a doubt selected the best players in the position in the SWD. The coaching team also know these boys very well, a formidable pack of forwards with a backline that can run circles around the opposition. My only concern is their defense, Outeniqua and Oakdale have disappointed in this category this year. They also have a flyhalf that can step and run himself out of any bad situation on the field , an absolute pleasure to watch,…there is just no substitute for natural talent.
@CHS13: He’s not a bad player at all.
@QC86: Hahaha!
@BoishaaiPa: I think that Sadie, for all his talent, had a relatively quiet Craven Week which probably accounts for his non selection. Earl Snyman, the SWD centre was very good at that level but I dont think that he progressed beyond U19/21 rugby at OFS.
Some did quite well initially at U19-21 level and even making the SA U20 side, before failing to kick on to excel at senior rugby. However many of those names have not progressed at all and quite a few did not even feature when they got to U19 Currie Cup level wheras others who did not make a national side like Sadie have come through.
interesting to see Trevor Nyakane there in the Academy side.
@Playa: Only one guy from Cambridge made the starting 15 and that’s, the hooker, Jayson Reinecke.
@meadows: Yes..now I recall that he was the only WP player to make it…Sadie did not make any of the teams and looking at the centers that did make it it’s only Ebersohn still playing top class rugby..and guess who is his middield partner!..Irony!
@Playa: how i wish our coach had his reading glasses on that day,it could have been 30 plus
@Boom: How I wish he had his kicking boots on against the Baboona at reunion.Ver decent player indeed.
@BoishaaiPa:
Koster did make it agaain in 2007. Pietersen was ineligible as he had finished school in 2006 but was still U18 – I think the last time they allowed that at CW. Here are the SA Schools and Academy teams from that year
SA Schools Team 2007
01. Dale Chadwick (KwaZulu-Natal)
02. Johan Oberholzer (Golden Lions)
03. Julian Redelinghuys (Golden Lions)
04. Marchand van Rooyen (Golden Lions)
05. Cornell Hess (Blue Bulls)
06. Marnus Schoeman (Blue Bulls)
07. Roelof Pienaar (Free State)
08. Nicolas Koster (Western Province)
09. Rudy Paige (Capt, Golden Lions)
10. Marnitz Boshoff (Pumas)
11. Ompile Marotothe (Blue Bulls)
12. Robert Ebersohn (Free State)
13. Earl Snyman (SWD)
14. Riaan Arendse (Eastern Province)
15. Patrick Lambie (KwaZulu-Natal)
Replacements
16. Sibi Masina (Pumas)
17. Coenraad Oosthuizen (Free State)
18. Kene Ockafor (KwaZulu-Natal)
19. Moeka Bolofo (Free State)
20. Kelvano King (Eastern Province)
21. Yondela Stampu (Blue Bulls)
22. Hadley Smith (Free State)
SA Schools Academy Team 2007
01. Caylib Oosthuizen (SWD)
02. Frank Herne (Free State)
03. Peet Vorster (Blue Bulls)
04. Mlungisi Bali (Blue Bulls)
05. Meiring de Clerq (Pumas)
06. Byron Booysen (Griquas)
07. Wimpie van der Walt (Pumas)
08. Christiaan Stander (Capt, SWD)
09. Ross Cronje (Kwazulu-Natal)
10. Josias Ebersohn (Free State)
11. Blake Mecuur (Golden Lions)
12. Simphiwe Mtimkulu (Blue Bulls)
13. Bongi Luvuno (Pumas)
14. Alec Mhlanga (Limpopo Blue Bulls)
15. Damien Janse van Rensburg (Golden Lions)
Replacements
16. Martin Bezuindenhout (Leopards)
17. Trevor Nyakane (Limpopo Blue Bulls)
18. Pieter Labuschagne (Free State)
19. Tendayi Chikukwa (Blue Bulls)
20. Justin Claassen (Griffons)
21. Itaello Cupido (Eastern Province)
22. Gideon Helberg (Pumas)
It is interesting to look down that list and see how many have made it and others who have not.
@meadows: That is correct yes..Wilton was a very good player..Koster got SA Schools in 2006 but did not make it in 2007!..I think that final against OVS did him in!
@BoishaaiPa: You are correct – Lambie and the Cronjes’ – the KZN team had the MHS 9, 10, 12, 13, & 15 as well as flanker Ntsola Setlaba who played a bit of age group rugby at WP and went on to captain UCT in the Varsity Cup – the MHS wings Mark Richards and Ruan Combrinck went to the Academy week for reasons other than rugby merit.
We watched that game sitting with Nick Koster’s grandfather on one side and one of the Gimmies props (Rossouw de Klerk) parents on the other.
Another outstanding young player in that OFS side that we have all forgotten about was the fullback Wilton Pietersen (one of the only non Grey players) whose career was sadly ended by injuries sufferred in a car crash.
@meadows: I watched that WP vs KZN from behind the posts…I think the Cronje twins as well as Pat Lambie was part of that KZN team…WP was not a bad side indeed, but that Greystaat team was exceptional because of the Ebersohn twins and Coenie Oosthuizen…Those OFS teams just have an advantage over every other team because of the team dynamics.
@Tjoppa: I think a certain Mr Du Randt proved contrary to your theory
The problem with disrupting the BB forwards, is that KZN does not have a destructive tight 5, bar Dan Du Preez – but even Dan could be considered a very loose player! In fact, a lot of our boys seem to play a loose game these days – all looking to get their hands on the ball.
I want to see our props and locks ( KZN ) really making an impact at ruck time, hit the rucks hard and with force, make the guys think twice before trying to steal the ball…
I never really remember a hard hit in my time playing, but I can remember getting smashed out of rucks and not wanting to go back there!!!!
@beet: Well now I know why you would obviously agree with me having one stripe with the no.8…..definately the best no. 8 on offer country wide, he has a brain!
@Woltrui: Admittedly the Props of Waterkloof gave the pack a more solid base but I can not see Sakkie change his style of rugby. And unfortunately the props of Waterkloof will not fit in.
The questio of WP moving to the loosehead was discussed in depth previously. In short by playing a taller LH than TH puts more pressure on the TH. Therefore easier to disrupt the scrums. Therefore the golden rule will always be the taller prop to TH.
I still say the team that wants to beat Affies/Bulls must disrupt the forwards. Their loosies not the best grinding players in BB country and shy away from contact and defence. Thus play a tight/physical slow 10 men game and you can win with ease. Sorry boys.
Beet is there any news on the Puma Craven week team? Heard rumours that they didn’t pick the Nellies no 15 which is hard to believe.
@Woltrui: Very interesting frontrow strategy analysis there Woltrui and also very disappoint that KZN can’t make the game loose. In other years one would have thought this is the way to beat a big team like the Bulls but evidence from last year and from what we see and hear about Affies and Garsfontein in particular is that the Bulls backs at school and CW level have been given licence to thrill and their loose-forwards are very much on board with this idea because it is/has become a natural playing pattern of theirs. There is nothing 1D or slow about their style and therefore unstructured rugby suits them just fine.
One thing that does irritate me is the insistence of some people on referring to CW players #16-22 as the reserves or B-team. Everyone knows from years of experience now what the rules are. The team is not 15+7. It is 22. 22 A-team players. All have to start and play a game. If a team arrives at CW without that depth, they are not going far. So I really like the discussion around using the 2 combinations of frontrows as a strategy to achieve the desired results as part of a full A-team approach.
@beet: @Grasshopper: Blue Bulls/KZN game: An important factor how the match will pan out will be the team selection of the groups on the day(all players in the group must have a full game). IF, IF the BB win the first game the selectors must take into consideration the 2nd match-most probably the WP who brings a different challenge to the table. If I was a Blue Bull selector I will go with WP Eloff on loosehead (he played loosehead last year-was only changed to tighthead after three matches this season) against KZN. I will pick Francois Steyn at 2 and the strong scrummager Van Wyk at three. WP Eloff is maybe not as strong a scrummager but he is very mobile. He brings a lot to the tight loose and is a hard worker. It will hopefully help to neutralise the more mobile KZN pack. IF IF the BB win this game the team can then go with Vean Roodt and the two Van Wyks (a stronger scrum combination but not as mobile IMHO) against the WP.
Abovementioned tight five will still be a huge challenge for KZN come scrum time. The problem KZN got is you cannot make the game to loose. It will play in the hands of a VERY good Bulls no 8 and quicksilver backline. The match got the makings of a classic. As Meadows mentioned, a good team on paper doesn’t necessarily win games. The team must “gel” and that could hamper the Bulls CW team.
@beet: agreed, but at ruck time light weight props get driven off the ball easier. Taller props can lift better in the line out etc….we need 820kg plus packs to compete or we have had it. The KZN pack will be sub 800kg…..hmm….
@Grasshopper: Ja with the KZN decision to take 4 props this year, I was sort of hoping we could gone with at least 2 really big boys in there. Just to try something different from other years when we really took strain in the scrums with our short, light props. Anyway the scrumming laws have changed as well now, so perhaps the fatties won’t be as effective against us as they were in years before. Certainly the props from around the country that have caught the eye this season have been because they have delivered strong performances as ball-carriers more than for scrumming or high workrate. And the one scrumming performance that stood out for me was when Andrew du Plessis (only 1.77m, 100kg) outgunned big WP Eloff, which was totally unexpected.
@Ruggersake: I am a KCOB from the time when choir singing was not cool
and I played 2,9,10 and 15 while I was there but always for a lower/lowest teams.
@bhkgpa: Soos ek verstaan was dit ‘n proefneming. Skole soos Gim en Boland het in Boland streek geval. Groot ongelukkigheid het egter gevolg oor die tradisionele Boland skole min verteenwoordiging gehad het. As ek na die huidige polemiek kyk oor die CW span, dan lyk dit asof niemand die Paarl skole wil he nie. Oor hule te sterk is? Besluit maar self.
@beet: totally agree! Pick him to give him the confidence and build him up. Taking young props like Tredoux & Mgadi is going to probably hurt them and KZN. Hollenstein and Jackson are older, bigger and more experienced….oh well…..just an opinion. I remember in my years they picked Sean Erasmus ( not the coach) cos he was 120kg, 5 foot 10 and could scrum like a beast. Same with Lee Fernandes….picked for power and size…
@Beet: On the story about the Lions Craven week team. They played the Valke today in a warm-up match. Score = 21 all. Seems as if the Lions players only heard between Saturday and yesterday.
@beet: Where did you go to school and did you play?
@meadows: @Grasshopper: @McCulleys Workshop:
I discussed Cameron Holenstein after the Hilton/MC game again with a local parent. CH’s present form is hard to accept unless he is carrying some sort of injury. If one looks at his conditioning, there is no way he is a slacker in the gym and if he’s getting up early to do his training, there can’t be that much wrong with his attitude. He should also be fit enough to make the meaningful contributions in open play in terms of carrying/supporting/cleaning/tackling. Anyone who’d watched him in the latter part of last season knows he can scrum very well – strong back. Very hard to understand where the visual lack of motivation and energy level is stemming from now but he should have walked into the CW team this year. Personally I would still have been tempted to pick him and work extra hard to get him that heart and aggression back into his open play game.
@McCulleys Workshop: well, against Framesby Jackson single handedly destroyed the Framesby pack when he came on in the 2nd half. He added the extra bulk Westville needed in the tight…..maybe that was a one off great game, not seen him play since. It a psychological thing too, having a 128kg beast in your pack scares the other side a little…
@Koos Roos: hoe het die samestelling van die die span Dan toe gewerk?
@Koos Roos: gee die man n bells. Hopelik lees almal in die res vd Kaap dit en verstaan hoekom die CW span lyk soos hy lyk.
@Grasshopper: @meadows: I watched both props play 2nd’s in the Westville / MHS game on the weekend, I’m not sure the selectors have it wrong. They’re both big guys, but this is the second game I’ve watched the MHS prop, I don’t think he will be missed at CW. In today’s game you want someone who is busy around the park, not just in the set pieces, where they were OK?!
@Playa @spot as I said I don’t know how many players from the other schools. Dales forwards are week, and their backline is good. Fullback, centre looseforward and Hooker made it. The highest point scorer of the MC150 fest was left out. Big mistake in my opinion. Very good utility back. Playing 13 at Dale
@meadows: I think all the props are under 110kg and Tredoux is a youngster in grade 11. We needed some big brutes up front, tall heavy props for lifting, rucks and mauls. Jackson and Hollenstein fitted that mould…..oh well!
@Grasshopper: I havent seen enough SBR in natal this year to evaluate the opposition but based on what I’d seen I would have thought Hollenstein would be in with a chance. Clearly the selectors thought otherwise and I know that Ryno Combrinck from MHS has a lot of influence with the forward choices so I’m not suggesting any bias on their part.
I see he didnt even make the academy side although the other MHS prop Mudariki did. Incidentally Mudariki’s older brother played CW at srumhalf a few years ago (2009?) and was part of the WP U19 set up the following year.
@RBugger: The Doops, Schramm and Van Vuuren are a match for any Bulls player, including RG etc. Our weakness will be the props, hence why I said Hollenstein and Jackson, both 120kg plus even for 60mins to absorb all the pressure up front. Seems the coaches are going for pace to run them off their feet. Not sure if that will work….
@Woltrui: Thanks!
@spot: With Dale being the weakest of the 3, I would hope Queens has some starters.I am eagerly awaiting to see the make-up of the team.There are some good players outside of the colleges as well, especially from Grens and Cambridge.
@RBugger: With difficulty – as usual the key will be whether we can get parity up front. If this years Bulls side are anything like last years I suspect we are in for a long afternoon BUT when we matched them up front in 2005 we beat them and even in 2007 it went down to the wire in a game in which we lived off scraps.
@Boom: This does not leave Border with much training time. T minus 4 weeks and counting. @Playa: Maybe the Queenians are on the bench? Cannot wait to see the team. Looks like a heavily guarded secret though.
@JPS_10: Thanks for pointing that out – I’ll pass it on to my source ;-)
@BoishaaiPa:
The 2007 WP side was not a bad one at all – I remember Danie Poolman and Johan Sadie at centre, Jurgen Visser was also in that side along with Hilton lobberts up front. I remember the game on the first day at Paul Roos between WP and Natal very well. We thought we had won at half time!
the 2007 OFS/Grey side was on a different level that year though
@Playa: PD=Previously disadvantaged kids.
@BoishaaiPa: In 2001 het Derrick vir Boland CW gespeel. Schalk Burger jnr ook.
Gegewe hoe die Suidelike voorstede week na week sukkel teen Paarl se 2 en Boland asook PRG en ‘n wen teen hulle altyd ‘n verrasing is, meen ek so ‘n Skiereiland span sal maar swaartrek.
@Boom: Geeeez!Where are the Queenians?
Also interested…what’s this PDI business?
Anyone know when Border team will be announced? I know final selection took place on Sunday. All I know is 9 Selbornians, 4 Dalians. Don’t know names or other schools represented
@BOG:
The Bulls first up – what a way to start CW… If you want to be the best, you have to play and beat the best!
Can KZN realistically compete with the BULLS? I am not so sure, but I really do hope the boys are brave and if possible, are working on their fitness! We will certainly not out-muscle them but if we go in as a fitter team and run the ball again and again, we may just have a small surprise on the cards
@Woltrui: Ek dink wat ek hierbo probeer se het, was om julle klomp in Tshwane weg te kry vd 5 liter papsakke, en eerder julle wyn , goeie rooi eerder as Paarl Perle, uit fyn kristal te drink met julle pinkies in die lug en die ander vingers uit julle neuse. Maar ek reken di n eeuelange projek.
@wakker akker: Jy mis die punt. Vele unies/franchises het geen opsies as om te gaan werf nie. Hulle moet dit doen om n redelike gehalte spelergroep wat deur kwotas verplig word, te kan he, anders maak hulle gatte van hulleself by CW. Hou in gedagte dat rugby onder “spelers van kleur’ in streke soos Johannesburg, Pretoria , Bloem en Durban ver van eerste keuse is(ek praat van in die townships)- anders as in die OK, WP, Boland en SWD. Die seuns wie wel belangstel en in skole is in sg vorige model C en privaatskole, is nie genoegsaam om die kwota-komponent in standaard te verhoog nie. Di dus nie die kinders wat hardloop nie, maar die unies wie verplig is om hulle te lok.Die skuld hiervoor le op die drumpel vd wie kwotas voorskryf. @Woltrui: Wil jy my vertel dat daar meer Paul Rosers is as die 20 + Grey spelers , blykbaar binne die BB strukture? Miskien is dit meer om die kultuurvlak te lig as om rugby te verbeter. En dan , soos hier duidelik gesien kan word, is daar n groot maatskaplike behoefte in Pretoria en waarvoor die BB seker verplig voel om kultureel op te hef. Ast ware steenkool te slyp in die hoop dat dit n diamant sal onthul.
@BOG: Wat hartseer is dat dit hier nie gaan oor PD kinders nie. Ons het al die geval gehad in 2010/11 ??? dat Affies byvoorbeeld vir Paul Roos afstof. Aan die einde van die jaar is meer Paul Roos kinders by die Blou Bulle 0/19’s gekontrakteer as Affies spelers!! Lojaal teenoor die laaities wat die bulle ondersteun of hoe? Blerrie piepols
@BOG: Ja. Maar baie van die Cd spanne is ook nie net swart nie.Ons kan in die kaap ook nog n span met baie gekleurde spelers kies.Dan hoef hulle nie ander provinsies toe te hardloop nie.Limpopo Blou Bulle is hulle in die selfde kamp of nie?
Dit is nie vir my duidelik of hierdie n besprekingsforum is of n verbeeldingsvlug nie. As die WP twee spanne kan kry, dan is daar sekerlik regverdiging vir n tweede span in die streke vd Lions, BBs, KZN, VS en seker nog een of twee. Die CD spanne in die Border, OK en Griekwas is nie om talent te akkommodeer nie, maar om ontwikkeling te bevorder aangesien daar n natuurlike affiniteit tot die spel is, veral onder die landelike swart seuns. As die Paarl ongelukkig is, moet hulle by die Boland inskakel, soos wat dit vir n ruk was en soos dit is vir ander sportsoorte.@Woltrui: Di nie dat hulle so beindruk is met die Paarl se spelers nie- hulle het nie n opsie nie. Binne die BB streek is daar nie genoeg belangstelling onder “gekleurde” spelers met genoegsame talent om die kwota komponent te vul nie. Die voorskrifte dwing dus vir hulle en ander, om te gaan werf
Kan enige iemand my vertel wat die rede is hoekom WP nie n tweede span mag inskryf nie.Hierdie k;/.k kom nou al hoe lank aan.Ander provinsies het nooit gemoan soos ons in die kaap nie maar word meer spanne toegelaat.Wie is die D;’./S WAT DIT NIE KAN INSIEN NIE.dAAR WORD NOU AL JARE DAARVOOR GEVRA MAAR SEKERE drolle kan nie so n besluit neem nie .Dit is pateties
@BoishaaiPa Ja dit was hy op skolevlak was hy ‘n reus, ek onthou PRG het daardie jaar vir Grey Bloem op hul tuisveld geklop.
@Rooikat: Ek dink dit kan Os Hamman wees…
@oxry: Wat is jou probleem?..Ek ken Marlow rugby beter as wat jy dink!…Nog steeds suurdruiwe oor die pakslae op die plaas?
@Djou nou moet net jy nog jou skooltrui aantrek al is dit ‘n sokker een!
@Boishaai Ja dit was die jaar toe PRG so groot pak voorspelers gehad, veral die voorrye (was een van die voorrye nie die die wat nou vir Maties speel nie, kan nie nou op sy naam kom nie) Marlow het nie kans gehad teen hulle nie.
@Ploegskaar Die laaste wedstryd tussen Marlow en Boland dink ek was gelykop by Boland, hoe julle nie gewen het sal net julle weet, ek dink julle het 4 driee teen 0 gedruk maar omtrent alles mis geskop!
@BoishaaiPa: Reël ‘n game teen Marlow en kyk wat gebeur. Julle mag dalk net aangenaam verras word.
@oxry: Luister ou mater…As jy wil kom skoorsoek gaan speel daar in die modder met die ander varkies. Ek het niks teen Marlow gese nie.
@oxry: In 2007 was dit toevallig die jaar wat Bishops se Nick Koster die kaptein was…HJS het 1 Cravenweek speler gehad. PRG en Gim het meeste gehad.
@BoishaaiPa: Los Marlow uit, puik skool. Elke wedstryd wat hulle speel ‘punch hulle bo hul weight’.
@Meadows: In 2011 Free State (Cheetahs) beat Transvaal (Lions) and last year it was the year of the Blue Bulls.
@Rooikat: Ja, tans is dit net Oakdale, met nie eens ‘n wedstryd teen Augsburg hierdie jaar nie. Tog ‘n jammerte, die rugby tussen die Landbou skole is altyd lekker hard en taai,
@BHP: Kry 2 WP-spanne – een vir Paarl en een vir stad! Daar is genoeg spelers en skole om dit te regverdig, veral as ons so baie “Country district” spanne uit ander streke het.
@Rooikat. Nou lyk jy mos baie beter met klere aan!
Mooi stats van die CW die afgelope paar jaar. Opvallend is die een van 2007 se eindstryd. WPCW verloor teen ‘n skool ( Grey Bloem ). Die ander provinsies het darem teen provinsies verloor. Seker die jaar toe PRG die span oorheers het.
@Rooikat: Ek ken Marlow baie goed..het al selfs daar op julle skoolgronde gebly. Het in 2006 Die Burger Finaal tussen Marlow en Paul Roos daar op Markotter gaan kyk want famielie het almal afgekom en by my gebly!..Marlow het goed gehou tot so 10 minute in 2de helfte…toe hol PR hulle disnis.
@meadows: The score in the 1998 final was 23 – 19 in favour of the Blue Bulls.
@BoishaaiPa ja, ek kom van ‘n klein plaasskooltjie 180 seuns in my tyd nou so 250. Soos dit vir julle ‘n prestasie is om in die top 3 te eindig is dit vir ons ‘n prestasie om in die top 20 te eindig. Ons het net teen Boland gespeel in die Kaap maar Ploegskaar se manne het seker bang geraak vir ons en die jaarlikse wedstryd is in 2010 afgestel (haha). Marlow se onder 16 span speel wel by Gim se toernooi en het laasjaar teen PRG 23-15 (as ek reg onthou) verloor.
@Woltrui: Ek het “ge=lol”…maar eintlik was ek doodernstig!
@BoishaaiPa: BHP as jy sulke grappies oor die BB maak moet jy die mannetjie met die tanne agter aanheg. Interne reeling tussen BB en Wiepie Bloggers. Anders is daar moerse probleme. Vra maar vir die Ploegster
@meadows: You have the wrong info for 1998.
The Blue Bulls played against the Falcons in the final on Vanderbijlpark
The game was televised and the Blue Bulls won the game.
My son played for and captained the Blue Bulls side in 1998.
I can’t remember the score but I will comeback and confirm it.
@BoishaaiPa: ‘Met die Blou bul rugby unie se talentsoekers wat so beindruk is met die Paarl laaities sal ‘n Paarl CW span soos manna uit die hemel wees vir die BB. Die verdomde spulletjie kontrakteer mos om die dood nie spelers van Pretoria nie
@Woltrui: Bulle kan maar ook vir hulle n voorgee kry!…at least n 5!…lol
@Rooikat: Ek sien jy het n mooi Marlow truitjie aan…Ek het drie Nefies wat al drie op Marlow was…
@BoishaaiPa: As die 3 Paarl skole ‘n CW span kies moet die ander provinsies op ‘n voorgee speel. Bulle op scratch. Vrystaat op 10. “Last outpost” op 10.
@BoishaaiPa: Goeie idee, PRG is ook in, al is dit ook net vir die gebruik van hulle pronk-fasilitiete, is seker hulle sal weldra spelers ook bydra
Meadows se statistiek is insiggewend ek het nou nie getel nie maar met die eerste oogopslag wil dit voorkom of WP en FS die meeste in die finaal gespeel het.
Daar is ook nie so groot verskil sedert die “professionele” era (laaste 10 jaar ongeveer) begin posvat het in skolerugby nie, behalwe dat slegs EP en SWD (kleiner provinsies) in die laaste 10 jaar die finaal gehaal het.
Verder het die Bulle (sekerlik ons sterkste provinsie in die geheel gesien oor die laaste 10 jaar) nie in die eerste 20 jaar die finaal gehaal nie maar wel in die laaste 10 jaar.
Dan beklemtoon dit ook natuurlik Grey Bloem se krag wat basies die FS span is.
@Ploegskaar: So tipe game sal nooit goedkeuring van WP dra nie..sal hulle op te veel van hulle foute wys!..as jy nog vir PR ook bygooi dan gaan die res maar redelik kraak!
Die graden crew moet water spuit…hulle kry nie vakansie nie!
@BoishaaiPa: Sal gewis ‘n sterk span wees, miskien moet julle manne by Premier ‘n game vir die “Paarl Uitnodiging Span” reël teen die “Res van die Kaap”, sit hom op TV en siedaar. Sommer een vir die GK spanne as voorwedstryd ook
@BoishaaiPa: Maar as julle die B span plus die garden crew ook vat sal julle skeker ‘n voltal span met spanbestuurders he.
@Tjoppa: Nee..ons kort nog so 16 spelers om ons eie CW span voltallig te maak!…Almal maak nou so moerse bohaai…Die laaste paar jaar was HJS die mees bestendigste span in die WP en het by verre die mindere CW spelers opgelewer..Toe het PR en Gim heeltemal oorheers…Ons het vanjaar baie meer as die “normale” jare waar ons gewoonlik op die meeste 4 spelers in die CW span het. So om vinger te wys na Boishaai wat kamma die CW oorheers is n blote mite en mense staar hulle in vanjaar se statistiek vas!
@BoishaaiPa: Maar het Boishaai nie sy CW span reeds nie?
@BOG: Boggie julle ken mos die Dichem ding. Is dit nie waar daai Goosen outjie die beetle juice gekoop het nie. Sien sy spiere so sterk gemaak dat die beserings hom net nie wil los nie.
@Ploegskaar: Dink net as jy net uit die 3 Paarl skole n CW span kon kies…Daar sal nie een “kwota” speler nodig wees nie want daar is genoeg kwaliteit spelers….Jy kan sommer al drie skole se coaches ook inspan..een as agterepsler coach, een as voorspeler en een as hoof coach…pick anyone!..Jy sal n redelike goeie gebalanseerde span in die veld kan stoot, met krag voor, spoed agter en genoeg flair ook!
@BoishaaiPa: Ek bedoel eintlik 6 Boishaaiers in CW span!
@BoishaaiPa: WP Skiereiland en WP Platteland bly maar die eenvoudige oplossing vir hierdie tameletjie. Genoeg kwaliteit spelers is daar gewis, in beide “streke”, om ‘n CW en Akademie span te kies en logisties en finansieël behoort dit nie vir hierdie unie ‘n probleem te wees nie. Waar daar ‘n wil is is daar ‘n weg, tans is daar daar egter geen wil nie!
@BuiteBreek: Nou het jy my ook deurmekaar..Ek weet Derick het een jaar WP gespeel en een jaar Boland uit Landbou uit!…Dit kan dalk 2001 ook gewees het. …14 Boland Lanbouers en dan kom moan almal oor 8 Boishaaiers vanjaar!…in 2000 was Boishaai onoorwonne en “unofficial” No1 met JD Moller, Neil Fullard ens….
@BHP: As ek reg onthou, het Hulle in 2000 WP gespeel en 2001 Boland. 2000 was Stefan Basson en omtrent 14 van sy BL makker wat vir WP uitgedraf het (Derick was een) se jaar. In 2001 het Derick vir Boland gespeel. Maar ek is so half en half onder korreksie.
@Woltrui: Daardie span was laas sterk in 1948. Een vd deelnemers hier, minder gereeld deesdae, weens rumatiek en ander probleme, was lid van daai span.
@Woltrui: In 2000 het HJS, Boland Landbou en Gim vir die Boland gespeel!..Dit was Derick Hougaard se jaar as ek dit nie mis het nie…Net daarna het die drie skole weer onder WP geval. Boland skole wil hulle nie he nie, want dan ontneem hulle spelers uit klomp plattelandse skole…en in WP moan die Suidelike en Noordelik voorstede weer…Arme Paarlse skole sal maar hulle eie CW span moet stig! Ek dink hoeka Paarl as CW span sal goed genoeg doen op hulle eie met daai drie skole en dan nog New Orleans ens wat kan bykom.
@BOG: Dink hulle het teen ‘n sterk span van Vrede verloor
@Woltrui: Nee..myne is krieketspeler, maar sy beste pel en kamermaat het wel gespeel en was Eitel se Kaptein in die WP 0/19 span verlede jaar..Hulle het so ontmoet deur gemeenskaplike pelle…
@Ooorkant Loftus: Eenvoudig- ek het nie met jou gepraat of jou opinie gevra nie en of jy gatvol is of nie , skeel my min. As ek in die skaduwee van Loftus gebly het, was ek ook gefrustreerd en gatvol. Wanneer gaan jy eendag alles minder ernstig opneem? Ontspan.
@meadows: Interesting scores that jump out from the past finals:
2000: Pumas 19 – 18 Boland. The 2 “smaller” provinces playing in the final. Talk about upsetting the applecart.
2007: FS 52 – 3 WP. The FS team the Mother of all CW teams?
@Meadows Thanks for all that stats, very interesting.
@Woltrui Ja ons het n goeie span gehad by CW laas jaar. Die mix was reg gewees. Kan dalk net weer so wees die jaar.
@Bog Wanne gaan jy eendag net iets goed kan uiter in stede van al tyd daai selfde ou “grys” stof van jou. Jy is al so voorspelbaar dit maak n mens gatvol rerig.
@BoishaaiPa: Hi BHP. Jy is reg ons het teen Noord-Kaap ook verloor. Eitel was ‘n puik kaptein. Het net altyd gewonder of hy nie dalk bietjie klein is vir ‘n moderne losvoorspeler nie?? Het jou seun die dag vir HJS gespeel?
@Woltrui: Ek onthou daai Affie span…Op Wildeklawer met HJS wat 3 punte agter is reg teen die einde en oppad doellyn toe chip ons heelagter in Affies se hande en julle gaan score …Daai span het egter 2 games verloor..teen Grey en Noord-Kaap, terwyl HJS teen Grey gedraw het in Bloem..Spanne was baie naby mekaar. Eitel Bredenkamp wat Kaptein was van daai span is nou hier in die WP en by Maties en speel baie lekker..is net beseer op die oomblik. Hy het goeie pelle met my seun geword.
@Woltrui: I think that you are correct – KZN will battle up front and as we saw last year when they came up against a big Lions pack on day two they struggled.
Anything can happen though – KZN did beat the Bulls at CW in 2005 although that year they had a very competitive pack led by Pat Cilliers that included Mike Rhodes and Warren Whiteley. Rhodes was outstanding in the Bulls game.
Bulls and KZN met again on the final day in 2007 wher the Bulls won a game of two halves 27-24. The Natal backs ran up a good lead in the first half but the Bulls pack took control in the second to starve kzn of ball and come back for the win.
Out of interest here are the results of the “final” games over the years -up to 2010;
1971: Western Province vs Griquas, 11-0
1972: Western Province vs Western Transvaal, 16-9
1973: Western Province vs Transvaal, 36-7
1974: Western Province vs South Western Districts, 22-12
1975: Eastern Province vs Natal, 46-13
1976: Boland vs Free State, 13-9
1977: Eastern Province vs Western Province, 19-17
1978: Western Province vs Free State, 12-3
1979: Northern Free State vs Free State, 9-6
1980: Free State vs Transvaal, 16-6
1981: Transvaal vs Western Province, 11-7
1982: South Eastern Transvaal vs Northern Free State, 25-7
1983: Free State vs South Eastern Transvaal, 13-9
1984: Transvaal vs Eastern Province, 3-0
1985: Free State vs Transvaal, 23-15
1986: South Eastern Transvaal vs Western Province, 19-12
1987: Natal vs Transvaal, 22-22
1988: Western Province vs Free State, 16-3
1989: Transvaal vs Eastern Province, 17-6
1990: Natal vs Northern Transvaal, 18-8
1991: Northern Transvaal vs Border, 10-9
1992: Western Province vs Free State, 22-15
1993: Northern Transvaal vs South Eastern Transvaal, 25-13
1994: Border vs Eastern Province, 13-13
1995: Free State vs Boland, 15-13
1996: Northern Transvaal vs Western Province, 24-12
1997: Northern Transvaal vs Western Province, 29-27
1998: Griqualand West vs Western Province, 32-21
1999: Western Province vs Eastern Province, 15-11
2000: Pumas vs Boland, 19-18
2001: South Western Districts vs Blue Bulls, 26-20
2002: Western Province vs Free State, 31-16
2003: Western Province vs Free State, 22-17
2004: Free State vs Western Province, 17-16
2005: Golden Lions vs Eastern Province, 38-15
2006: Blue Bulls vs Golden Lions, 35-20
2007: Free State vs Western Province, 52-3
2008: South Western Districts vs Free State, 31-25
2009: Western Province vs Free State, 19-17
2010: Free State vs Western Province, 42-21
@Woltrui: Daardie 2011 span, wat volgens jou op water loop, teen wie het hulle nou weer verloor? Of is dit geskiedenis? Ek sou baie verbaas wees as KZN nie n aansienlike telling teen die BB op die eerste dag aanteken nie. Groot beteken nie noodwendig sterk en fiks nie. Gewig wat in die Spur of Dischem bekom is, help min. Dan moet die grysstof tussen die oortjies ook in goeie balans wees. Vooroordeel beinvloed objektiwiteit.
@meadows: While we are on the 2011 Affies team. That is the team Mculleys Workshop described as the Diesel Mechs from Pretoria
@meadows: Sorry Meadows. The 2011 Affies team currently has 5 players representing SA (JG Strydom, the flyhalf of the team, representing the SA 7’s).
@meadows: Meadows the BB Union’s Craven week selection used to be notoriously bad. (Example: In 2011 Affies had a team that lost one game in high school-from grade 8 to 12. Competing against the best schools in SA. Currently 4 of that team is representing SA teams. Only 3 of that team represented the Bulls at Craven Week!) Last year the Union seemed to get their act together with huge results at Craven Week. The BB CW team of 2013 is of the same quality as the 2012 team. In the backline no 9, 10, 12 and 13 must all be in the run for SA colours. In my opinion the pack will be one of the best at the CW-definitely one of the biggest. Nothing is impossible but I cant see the KZN team matching them on day one. If KZN win it wil be a big upset.
Struggling to come to grips with the new abbreviations – PD and CD. Is that previously and currently disadvantaged? Beet, the one team on the 5th day, in the 13:00 slot is already known, if you want it.
@Woltrui:
2008 at Affies – Pumas beat WP 19-17 in their opening game and SWD beat the Bulls 26-21 – perhaps history will repeat itself?
Bulls, despite loads of talent on paper, also had a poor Craven Week and lost their first two games losing to WP in their second game and only winning against Griquas on the final day. WP in turn lost to the Lions on day three.
SWD, led by CJ Stander won the “final” game beating OFS.
Kzn won two out of three losing to OFS on day two.
Sorry – can you confirm the venue (Limpopo – Polokwane)?
@Woltrui: Agree with that. Valke has the same problem.
They play the Lions today and from what I have seen so far, they should get a hiding in most of the games, Craven week team being the possible exception.
Unfortunately below this, getting enough quality PD players in this regeon is just not possible, with the Academy team backline struggling the most in this regard.
Would love to see the Pumas as underdogs upset WP. Can’t see it happen though. Pumas just don’t have the quality rugby players in their quotas to compete with the big guns. Pity provinces who don’t have a PD base who love rugby can’t get a deduction of sort concerning their quotas. Teams like the Pumas and North West 8)