Initial research by Djou. A look at the players’ schools, franchises, movements, Craven Week and SA Schools history.
54% of Boks from schools in SBR Top 30
12 Bulls, 8 Sharks, 7 Cheethas, 6 Stormers, 1 Bath, 1 Ulster
Only 34% stayed in the province of their school
Biggest recruiting provinces (from outside their region): Bulls and Sharks: Indication from boys in current Springbok squad not from a school in their franchise:
83.4% Bulls, 43% Cheethas, 75% Sharks, 25% of Stormers
74% went to Craven Week, 39% made SA Schools
Grey College is the best represented high school with 9 (24%) followed by Paul Roos with 3.
| Name | High School | Franchise | Top 20 | Stay/Move | Craven Week | SA Schools | Primary School |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Pierre Spies | Affies | Bulls | Yes | Stay | Yes | No | Skuilkrans |
| Trevor Nyakane | Ben Vorster | Cheetahs | No | Move | Yes | Yes | Gravelotte |
| Francois Louw | Bishops | Bath | No | Move | No | No | Bishops |
| Bjorn Basson | Dale | Bulls | No | Move | No | No | Central |
| Bismarck du Plessis | Grey Bloem | Sharks | Yes | Move | Yes | Yes | Truida Kestell |
| Jannie du Plessis | Grey Bloem | Sharks | Yes | Move | Yes | No | Truida Kestell |
| Lappies Labuschagné | Grey Bloem | Cheetahs | Yes | Stay | Yes | No | Schweizer-Reneke |
| Coenie Oosthuizen | Grey Bloem | Cheetahs | Yes | Stay | Yes | Yes | Gustav Preller |
| Adriaan Strauss | Grey Bloem | Cheetahs | Yes | Stay | Yes | Yes | Grey College |
| Robert Ebersohn | Grey Bloem | Cheetahs | Yes | Stay | Yes | Yes | Grey College |
| Flip van der Merwe | Grey Bloem | Bulls | Yes | Move | Yes | No | President Swart |
| Ruan Pienaar | Grey Bloem | Ulster | Yes | Move | Yes | Yes | Fichardtpark |
| Jan Serfontein | Grey Bloem | Bulls | Yes | Move | Yes | Yes | Grey Jnr |
| Siya Kolisi | Grey PE | Stormers | Yes | Move | Yes | Yes | Grey Jnr |
| JJ Engelbrecht | Grey PE | Bulls | Yes | Move | Yes | No | Kirkwood |
| Gio Aplon | Hawston | Stormers | No | Stay | No | No | Hawston |
| Jano Vermaak | HTS Vereeniging (Gim) | Bulls | No | Move | Yes | Yes | Hangklip |
| Juan de Jongh | Hugenote (Well) | Stormers | No | Stay | Yes | No | Hugenote |
| Bryan Habana | KES | Stormers | No | Move | No | No | Meridale |
| Lwazi Mvovo | Maria Louw | Sharks | No | Move | Yes | No | Gledys King |
| Patrick Lambie | Michaelhouse | Sharks | No | Stay | Yes | Yes | Clifton |
| Willem Alberts | Monnas | Sharks | Yes | Move | Yes | No | Muldersdrift |
| Arno Botha | Nylstroom | Bulls | No | Move | Yes | No | Nylstroom |
| Lourens Adriaanse | Paarl Gimnasium | Cheetahs | Yes | Move | Yes | No | Vredendal |
| Jean de Villiers | Paarl Gimnasium | Stormers | Yes | Stay | Yes | Yes | Paarl Gim |
| Juandré Kruger | Paul Roos | Bulls | Yes | Move | No | No | Eversdal |
| Francois Hougaard | Paul Roos | Bulls | Yes | Move | No | No | Robertson |
| Willie le Roux | Paul Roos | Cheetahs | Yes | Move | No | No | Locherhof |
| Tendai Mtawarira | Peterhouse (Zimbabwe) | Sharks | No | Move | No | No | Prospect, Zimbabwe |
| Marcell Coetzee | Port Natal | Sharks | No | Stay | No | No | Suid-Natal |
| Chiliboy Ralepelle | Pretoria Boys High | Bulls | Yes | Stay | Yes | Yes | Drakensig/Numbi |
| Zane Kirchner | PW Botha (George) | Bulls | No | Move | Yes | No | Kretzenshoop |
| Morné Steyn | Sand du Plessis | Bulls | No | Move | Yes | No | Fichardtpark |
| Pieter-Steph du Toit | Swartland | Sharks | No | Move | Yes | No & Yes (HP) | Riebeek Kasteel |
| Eben Etzebeth | Tygerberg | Stormers | No | Stay | Yes | Yes | Goodwood Park |
| 54% | 34% | 74% | 39% |
@Bokhoring: The table was done in June 2013. Must update it at some stage tho
@Tierklou: Frans Malherbe kort op die lys. Hy was in Boishaai
@BOG: Willie le Roux het al lankal hier vir die Boland ontkiem..hoekom dink jy het hy n Griekwas kontrak gekry?..Beslis nie die OVS wat hom kontrakteer het nie..Die Cheetahs het nou maar die geluk getref dat hy by die Kwas speel!…Lyk my sommige mannetjies hou nie van kompetisie hier in die Kaap nie…
@Koos Roos: Korrek, 1906, is die “skeiding”. toe Markotter (ironies) die span oorsee geneem het, was hulle vir die eerste maal bekend as “Springbokke”. Is dit dan reg om te se dat PRG die meeste SA spelers opgelewer het terwyl GCB die meeste SPRINGBOKKE opgelewer het? Julle kan tereg trots wees met Willie wat daar in die vlaktes ontkiem het en ek wens EW Viljoen wil met hom praat voor hy die pad vat Kaap toe. Ek sien hoeka dat Pieter Jordaan terugkeer Bloem toe. (Ook Piet Lindeque vd Sharks)
@BOG: Ou Bog, moenie pre 1906 vergeet nie. Dan het PRG steeds die meeste spelers wat SA verteenwoordig het. Moderne era is julle tops. Willie help darem ons saak!
@beet: A week or two ago, there was some doubt about the number of Springboks out of GCB.(with you) Jan Serfontein was the 43rd, when he came on, on Saturday. Just for your information! Hopefully justice will be served during this series and more will be seen, beginning with Lappies Labuschagne.
@Grey Brak: Well done Brak! Hoe lui die gesegde nou weer? Elke hond kry sy dag en ‘n Brak ‘n naweek. Niemand sal ooit stry dat julle ouens ‘n wenresep het nie.
Try this one:
http://www.volksblad.com/opinie/2013-06-06-vs-en-gw-is-bok-kweekskool
@beet: Haha, maak die Grey Boytjies almal bokke!!
Love the following insert from Volksbald newspaper:
https://www.facebook.com/#!/photo.php?fbid=10151637637423739&set=pb.196840763738.-2207520000.1370771086.&type=3&theater
@Grey Brak: We call the Craven Week team Greystaat. What about the Springboks?
SprinGreyks?
Grey College Boy Piet van Zyl joining Springbok squad, 10 Grey boys now in current Springbok squad http://fb.me/1kz6g7V5I
@BoishaaiPa: Afguns en swak begrip is n dodelike kombinasie.
@GrassHopper: Yip, the locks were very light ( well light looking )
The Doops and Schramm are all well over 100kg and hopefully this will bulk up the KZN pack. It would be nice to see Mazibuko being allowed to run rite at CW, he is one hell of a runner – hopefully the Doops can get the dirty work done and allow for a running game.
@Horsefly: Yes, told you Schramm is one to watch, very exciting player and he has really impressed this year.
I too hope that KZN play an expansive game – KC have a smallish team and they play away from contact at good speed. I feel this is the way KZN have to play at CW!
@Tierklou: Miskien moet jy gaan leer om nog “somme” te maak en te leer van”Trends”..In die matriek jaargroepe waarin die oorgrote meerderheid van hierdie Bokke val (2000 -2007) het Boishaai nie baie CW spelers gelewer nie, op gemiddeld so 3 per jaar. So ek weet nie waaroor jy so te kere gaan nie…In dieslfde tydperk was PRG, Gim en Grey vir seker van die drie sterkste rugbyskole in die land en dit kan gesien word in die verteenwoordiging van die skole….Die huidige groep is nog net o/18 en ek twyfel of Heyneke hulle in aanmerking gaan neem…. Afguns is n bitter pil. Gaan sluk dit maar af met ietsie soets!
Net 1 regstelling. Beast het vir Zim aan die cravenweek deelgeneem. Wat baie duidelik uit die stats is, is dat die Bulle lekker met ander provinsies se kalwers ploeg. Nie ‘n verrasing nie. Oos -Kaap se bydrae is prysenswaardig, gegewe die feit dat hul senior unie nie werklik as ‘n grote gereken word nie.
@Djou: You referred to the setup in NZ and pointed out to the financial constraints in SA for not emulating or copying their system. I thought that SA rugby is the “cash cow” of the SH. But , I presume, that you are not suggesting that every player in the under age teams ( 20 teams) should be paid as professional players. Almost like the secondary golf circuit in Europe (also US) where they compete for a playing card the next season .From there, the established franchises can select and contract players. No contracts before then? Or would that be regarded as constraint of trade? Perhaps preferable to the academies and it may even contribute to the elimination of Tjoppas buddies, the vultures.
@Meadows: I agree with all your points – it still boils down to too many school boys and insufficient number of places. If SARU can get it right, they should recruit the youngsters into more under age teams (e.g. 20 teams) and provide them with the coaching and facilities. From there unions can contract. I am sure more PD players will then also get a chance.
@Djou: Absolutely. I dont think anyone deserves it more than Robert Ebersohn
@meadows: What bugs me is there is opportunity for players belonging to the 7th team in the u19 + u21 set up. The likes of SWD, the Valke, Pumas, Boland and Griquas. These teams are generally on a promotion relegation rotation which in itself makes little sense coz the age-group teams change personnel every year anyway. They have limited funds and therefore don’t have the structure to adequately support junior teams. As a result we have a situation where the B-teams in the bigger regions would be stronger and therefore make healthier compo than these smaller unions.
I’d really like to see the competition restructured to give more players in the larger regions a chance, even if it means the B-teams play in the B-section. I agree with your views that there are limited places available in senior rugby but I still think that there is too much of a filtering process between SBR and u19 because there are too few opportunities available in the regions where there is a higher concentration of talent.
Hopefully the efforts made by the EP Kings and Border goes a long way to addressing this in the next few years. I would promote both to u19 A-section and allow the Bulls and WP to have B-teams in the B-section. This would make 8 teams per section.
@Bog: Best news all year. Ebersohn deserves it out and out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Make that 9 Grey Bloem Boys!!!
Robert Ebersohn has now been called up as well. Proud to see that GCB represent nearly a 1/3 of the Springbok squad.
Viva la Grey!!!
@Djou: I think that the numbers contracted from Craven Week is quite a bit less.
It is only the major unions, often with a participating University, that is able to contract a full U19 squad each year and then only about 20 – 24 players. a number of others may get a bursary from a university like UJ, Maties, OFS, Tuks or Potch.
Effectively it is only the Bulls, WP, Sharks, Lions, OFS, Leopards and now probably the EP contracting or offering some form of bursary to an U19 squad. Even within these some contract more and some less – Bulls have a reputation for contracting a big squad while the Sharks only do about 16 or so and rely on paying students at the Academy to make up their numbers. Guys like Marcel Coetzee and Kyle Cooper backed themselves at the Academy and were not initially contracted by the Sharks. The same was true of Dimitri Caterakilis at the Lions as an U19 in 2008 – he in fact was not offered a contract at the end of that year and left.
Aside from questions around selection criteria I think that there are a number of reasons that so few players make it into the senior professional ranks let alone the national team.
Firstly, it is a simple question of numbers – there are only about 40 odd senior contract slots available at the big unions/franchises and at any one time you have at least 60 junior contracted players making their way through the U19 and U21 ranks. I’d be surprised if as much as 20% of them ever see a senior contract.
There is also IMO a massive step up from CW to even the U19 Currie Cup and many good schoolboys players are quite simply exposed at the higher level or at the following one up to U21.
Finally physical development, or lack thereof, between 19 and 21 as well as desire and work ethic can play a major role.
@RBugger:
I never got to say this over the weekend but jeepers that boy Schramm is a handful! He is big,strong,quick,talented,skilled!
I too would pick him as my starting #8 for KZN. But in terms of he and Goodson, I’d say the deciding factor for me is Schramms experience in the backline which shows in the way he plays his game. But that doesn’t mean I don’t feel Goodson was hard done by.
As for the Doops, speechless! Look forward to seeing them in action at Craven Week for the 3rd time and you know what, had they played against GWD, that one point win wouldve easily turned to about 10-12 points!
I hope that Barend Steyn plays the same style of rugby at Craven Week as his team did this weekend. The pace and skill of the backline will allow for it!
@Djou: Baie ware woorde en geen einde in sig van hulle absolute vasbeslotenheid om hulle name gat te maak, stop te sit nie. Ja, en ons weet ook nou al die groot geheim(en wonder). Tjoppa se vrou is swanger- deur windbestuiwing!
@RBugger: Yes, the two locks that played were 2nd team players and far too light to play against Monnas. The Glenwood packs of the past 10 years have never been smashed. Seth Van der Heever and Jaco Coetzee are two very key players for the Glenwood pack. I would have played 121kg Potgieter at lock to add some bulk to the scrums and also to the breakdown. The Glenwood props are all grade 11 so learning quickly. We also missing Kenny Van Niekerk who is great in the loose and defence. But you are right, the Glenwood strength this year is weirdly their backs and not their forwards. Add the Doops and Schramm to the mix and suddenly the pack looks strong…I will say it again Hollenstein from MHS and Jackson from Westville should have gone to add some bulk up front…
@Djou: Thanks for the interesting stats. There is so much talent in the premier schools in SA that I would advise the guys to start looking at the oversees clubs for greener pastures. Its about playing and competing at the top level all the time that produce excellent players for the future.
@Tjoppa: Het intussen die groot geheim uitgevind. Belowe om niks te verklap nie – die nuus gaan mos hier, op die webwerf, gebreek word.
If the above numbers are used as proxy for the past, it means that 26 out of every 100 Springboks would not have played Craven week. Therefore, for those boys not making the provincial teams, there is hope. And for those making the provincial teams, there is no guarantee that you will obtain a senior contract.
And what’s more, 73 out of every 100 Springboks would not have played SA Schools – a very bad statistic for the selectors of the SA Schools teams. Never, ever let these selectors pick schools’ first teams.
Although there is social engineering, the PD requirement is 40% and in this context a statistic of 73% reflects very bad on the SA Schools selectors. They remind me of the bad school boy referees in televised matches – they know they are under scrutiny, but continue to portray their incompetence to a very large crowd thereby also negatively affecting the lives of many people. They must have very thick skin or may be just stupid. Don’t really know.
@meadows: Yep…NMMU also had about 7 players who are contracted to the Kings in their setup.Not sure if they are genuine students.Sad state of affairs.
@Predator: The main reason why so few Craven week players make it into senior provincial rugby (in South Africa) is because each year almost 968 school boys participate in the Craven- and Academy weeks (excluding Zim and Nam), whilst only 420 positions are open in the 14 unions (assuming a squad of 30 players per union). Had there been more money available, we could have had a situation enabling SARU to support more and stronger teams a la NZ.
@Tjoppa: My ma het beslis vir my tussenin gedonder ook, maar op die agterent en nie oor die kop nie. Ek beskik dus nog oor al my fakulteite. Sy het verseker Spreuke 13:24 met groot ywerigheid nagevolg.
@BOG: I totally agree with you, but it would still be interesting to see.
@beet: I agree with your sentiments regarding the roles of both Varsity and Vodacom Cup.
Unfortunately some of the unions/franchises have completely undermined the objectives, as initially concieved, of the Varsity Cup. Tuks have been the most obvious but others are not far off. They all tend to use Varsity Cup as a professional 3rd/U21 side.
I dont have a problem if the players are contracted juniors who are registered students at those institutions and aren’t in the Vodacom cup side but some of these sides are full of 3rd team pros hoping to bridge the gap between U21 and Vodacom Cup and crack a senior contract.
I wonder how many of this years NMMU Varsity Cup side are genuine students for example.
Wat van statistieke wat wys hoeveel Springbokke of selfs provinsiale spelers by senior vlak het Cravenweek gespeel. So 3 paar jaar terug het die spreker wat die Cravenweek geopen het verwys dat slegs 2% van Cravenweek spelers op eindig en senior rugby speel by die unies. Dis nogal ‘n groot uitval,…miskien omdat van die manne wat vrkies word in elke geval nie die beste was in hulle posisie nie.
@Beet: For sure, defence needs to be worked on! Like I said, you get glamour boys who can run like the wind, but what about defence.
One more thing, and I do not want to point fingers I am simply making a point, the line-outs of Glenwood were terrible! This is an aspect of play which needs to be sorted out asap
On a positive note, Joubert, Nela and espcially Vermaak, all looked very dangerous! Let’s hope Vermaak is ok.
Beet, not sure if you got to watch KC this weekend, but my word, they are firing! Doops back to their best and the team playing fantastic rugga.
Perhaps one or two boys there unlucky not to make the Academy Team
@BOG: Sy moes jou eerder pak slae gegee het dan sou jy beslis beter mens gewees het vandag. Want ore het jy nie. Jy klink steed soos a plaat wat vashaak. Geskiedenis, geskiedenis, geskiedenis
@Mike: You have to distinguish between those who have moved on their own and those who move with their parents. JS moved to Bloem with his parents which was a very natural thing to do in less sensitive times.
Whenever I moaned as a child, my late mother used to tell me that I sound like a stuck record. For the benefit of the younger ones here, a record was a large black vinyl/plastic which contained music and preceded CDs. (When my sisters grand daughter saw one , she said:”Wow thats a big CD”) Im saying once AGAIN !!- SKILL !!! In SA it is generally confined to one or two schools, while in NZ, its more widespread. Ask Brendon Venter and Murray Mexted. And this has been the challenge for years and one of the reasons GCB has excelled.
@beet: Herd anymore about the Border Craven Week team
Niemand van BoisHaai nie. Nogal interessant as mens kyk na die hoeveelheid CW & Akademie spelers wat hulle elke jaar “oplewer”.
Niemand van BoisHaai nie. Nogal interessant as mens kyk na die CW & Akademie spelers wat hulle elke jaar “oplewer”.
@Predator: We are loosing the cream of the crop.
@pongola: Go to the Varsity Cups website and read what was the original reason for promoting the VC.
The word “contract” in rugby has become a swear word. I think we have five times more players in our system than the New Zealanders and yet they tend to dominate this sport in the world arena. Could it be that they have only the best in that specific year wear the All Black jersey in junior or senior level or franchise level for that matter ? No wonder the whole world is scouting in SA for talent. Know of a boy that got a huge offer in America ( at least there is extra opportunity for the ones that are overlooked ). The message should be to every young talented player to look or scout beyond the SA borders. Sad but true!!!
@beet: ONE MORE WEEK THEN ALL WILL BE REVEALED
@beet: Unfortunately so does Maties, UJ and Pukke and to a lesser extend Kovsies. But according to my knowledge only Tuks/BB where both share coaching staff and players so openly. But this was also to Tuks own disadvantage as their Carlton Cup coach has left to join the Lions.
The unhealthy situation however carries on and the current Tuks 1 team is subjected to the Bulls sending players at a regulars interval players down to get “gametime”. This happens mostly on Fridays at captains. The Tuks player that practised the whole week is either benched or left out of match day team altogether. This Saturday again they played a player that do not qualify for semi’s and final of Carlton Cup ahead of regular player. Does that make any sense. Tuks sold their sole.
By cravenweek provinces:
Cheetahs have 9 players
WP 8
Boland 3
Bulls 2
Sharks 2
Limpopo 2
Lions 2
EP 2
Border 2
Valke 1
Zimbabwe 1
Worrying is that only 2 springboks were schooled in the Bulls area and another 2 in the sharks area! These two powerhouse provinces have the same amount as Limpopo!
@RBugger: Definitely when the physicality level gets upped, there are some players that tend to go AWOL.
There were also a few worrying signs last week as well in the College vs Glenwood game. On several occasions College won turnovers by driving Glenwood over the ball with well-timed counter-rucking.
We are rating a lot of our forwards in KZN on their abilities to attack. We need a few more who stand out in defence. Andre de la Rey was one such player. Gutsy player and good tackler. Jaco Coetzee also getting very good at the contest for ball on the deck.
@Tjoppa: I agree with you 100%.Varsity Cup has replaced the Vodacom Cup now.And the unions have managed to find themselves in through the loopholes in the rules.It’s absolutey despicable.
some players can only play super rugby for other franchises as their own franchises doesn’t have super rugby franchises . so the stay/move can only apply to players that was in a super franchise area and moved to another franchise area. @beet think there’s a lot of contracted leopards players playing for pukke and a lot of contracted players playing kovsies/ofs. if you contract the most players you will probably have more contracted players playing for their university also.?
@Tjoppa: This should be a massive concern for SA Rugby. IMHO again, the narrowing process from SBR to u19 is far to great these days. In the old days kids with ambition could go play club rugby and be on an equal footing with as much opportunity to succeed after school as the star player from school.
You are absolutely right these days a player simply has to be in a rugby institute after school to stand a fair chance.
I feel that SARU should think outside the box and restructure u19 to u21 rugby, to ensure that more kids have the opportunities to compete at a high level for at least 3 more years.
What would also be interesting to see is how many of them moved schools during high school. For example Jan Serfontein was at Grey PE from grade 5-9, then to Grey College from 10-12.
@RBugger: The Vodacom Cup as poorly marketed and low key as it is serves a far more important purpose than the Varsity Cup IMHO. It’s a place to test your provincial B-team players, give youngsters valuable experience and for smaller unions like Pumas and Leopards etc it keeps contracted players involved. The quality is much higher than Varsity Cup.
The only time it was clouded was by the Bulls / Tuks relationship which resulted in a big overlap between the 2 teams – Bulls and Tuks. But that was mainly because the Tuks did not adhere to the rules regarding qualification for a “student” to play Varsity Cup.
@Tjoppa: Wow, that is very wrong! No wonder Tuks were so strong this year!!!
Ya, that is a bit sad as we already have a Vodacom Cup – if this is what is happening for the Varsity Cup, then what is the point in having a Vodacom Cup
@RBugger: You guys have trials? Interesting at Tuks this do not happen. And not at Pukke, Stellenbosch,UJ and some at Kovsies and yes at the others maybe but then look at their results. The big four has even gone further and these institutions have 6 months courses in bullshit and the likes so that anybody can qualify as full time students. This circus is to be stopped and only allow full time students, without contracts, to play otherwise the big unions will rape it every year.
@Tjoppa: I am fully aware of the Varsity Cup, the set up and how it works. I am afraid you are not fully correct in your statement.
Yes, the boys that are scouted at school boy level have a far higher chance of making it, but at Uni, particulary in the U20 set up, the trials provide equal opportunity for all boys to shine and make their mark.
Any boy attending the likes of Stellenbosch or UCT have the chance of making the Varsity Cup side – whether they attended CW or not
@RBugger: Obviously you did not follow the Varsity Cup results and stories in the media. Varsity Cup has become a full professional setup with the Bulls leading the party. The only path to follow is to pay the R65k – R130k the rugby academies ask, if your son is not contracted during school. That is it.
@Tjoppa: How so? With Varsity Cup etc, every boy has an opportunity after school to show-case his skills…
@RBugger: No sir this show how the system is narrowing the chance to be identified if you as boy dare not to go to the right school in a certain province. It furthermore shows if you do not play CW your chance of being noticed later on is very very small indeed and the chance is decreasing by the minute. This is what is shown sir.
@beet: Interesting analysis. One observation is that the school of origin’s current ranking in the top 20 is less relevant than where those schools were ranked when the players represented them.
There are of course a handful of schools (Grey, Affies etc) that feature every year in these rankings but several others do not.
In the above list schools such as Bishops, Dale, Michaelhouse, KES and Pretoria Boys High are good examples.
Bishops have produced many top 20 and top 10 sides over the years (not sure about F Louw’s year) but the 2006 Bishops side stands out in my memory.
Pat Lambie’s MHS sides in 2007 and 2008 were also both ranked in the top 10 on most ranking systems.
@Beet: This just proves a point, no matter how much moaning gets done, in general, the Best Players are picked for CW and the standard will remain High at the CW tournament.
Beet, something that we touched on that worried me about Glenwood against Monument, it was evidently clear that Monnas were way too strong in the forward pack, they dominated.
Besides the exciting breakes from Glenwood, it just shows how KZN lacks in the forward department! It makes me worry big time, especially when it comes to the Bulls Massive Pack
It could have been ten or more if not for injuries.
The stat suggests that 3 out of every 4 Boks went to Craven Week. I’m not sure if that stat is good or bad but it does suggest that we are still seeing some of the best talent in the mix at the tournament.