Dawie Theron has reduced his SA under-20 squad to just 34 players ahead of three friendly matches against:
18-Jan-2013: University of Western Cape
23-Jan-2013: Maties (University of Stellenbosch)
26-Jan-2013: Ikey (University of Cape Town)
In the past these Western Cape friendlies have not always gone according to play and have even embarrassed the Baby Boks and coaching staff. However this looks like it has been Theron’s most consistent of the three u20 Junior World Championship build-ups he has been involved in since taking the reins. There is a great deal of stability about the team. The only newcomers to the squad are injury prone Bulls centre Dries Swanepoel and Lions under-21 front-rower Devon Martinus. If Swanepoel can retain his fitness, the Old Grey could be a contender for the captaincy down the line, a role that is otherwise looking likely to be handed to WP hooker Freddie Kirsten with Neethling Fouche and Stoney Steenkamp also in with an outside chance.
Of more interest are some of the player position reshuffles that look set to be tested during the three games. Creative attacker Tim Swiel is back at fullback, possibly due to concerns over his kicking out of hand and tackling ability. Hard to bring down Sharks centre Tyler Fisher might be tested as a power wing. SA Schools 2011 captain Stoney Steenkamp looks set to play at openside flanker while his Bulls teammates Roelof Smit and Levene Damens, both better known as flanks could both be number-8’s. Although Jacques du Plessis has impressed at blindside flank during camps, he shifts to the second row and up front question-marks over Andrew Beerwinkel’s strength see him move to loosehead prop. All the adjustments whether permanent or not will add to the interest as versatility is a key ingredient for success at the JWC, which will be held in France during June 2013. Before that the team embarks on a short tour of Argentina during March.
The squad is:
| POSITION | NAME | SURNAME | SCHOOL | PROVINCE |
| Hooker | Morne | du Plessis | Waterkloof | Sharks |
| Hooker | Jacques | du Toit | Grey College | Free State |
| Hooker | Frederick | Kirsten | Paarl Boys High | WP |
| Prop | Devon | Martinus | Bredasdorp | Lions |
| Prop | Justin | Forwood | Waterkloof | Bulls |
| Prop | Sti | Sithole | Westville | WP |
| Prop | Andrew | Beerwinkel | Porterville | Bulls |
| Prop | Marne | Coetzee | Glenwood | Sharks |
| Prop | Luan | de Bruin | Affies | Free State |
| Prop | Neethling | Fouche | Grey College | Bulls |
| Lock | Irne | Herbst | Waterkloof | Bulls |
| Lock | Marvin | Orie | Tygerberg | Bulls |
| Lock | Dennis | Visser | Affies | Bulls |
| Lock | Jacques | du Plessis | Ermelo | Bulls |
| Flank | Ruan | Steenkamp | Monnas | Bulls |
| Flank | Kwagga | Smit | HTS Middelburg | Lions |
| Flank | Jurie | van Vuuren | Oakdale | WP |
| No.8 | Roelof | Smit | Waterkloof | Bulls |
| No.8 | Leneve | Damens | Grey College | Bulls |
| Scrumhalf | Stefan | Ungerer | Maritzburg Coll | Sharks |
| Scrumhalf | Hanco | Venter | Monnas | Sharks |
| Scrumhalf | Percy | Williams | Oudtshoorn | Lions |
| Flyhalf | Robert | du Preez | Kearsney | Sharks |
| Flyhalf | Handre | Pollard | Paarl Gym | Bulls |
| Centre | Jan | Serfontein | Grey College | Bulls |
| Centre | Dries | Swanepoel | Grey College | Bulls |
| Centre | Justin | Geduld | Tygerberg | WP |
| Centre | Tyler | Fisher | Westville | Sharks |
| Wing | Jean-Paul | Lewis | Paul Roos | WP |
| Wing | Seabelo | Senatla | Harmony | Free State |
| Wing | Luther | Obi | St Benedicts | Leopards |
| Wing | Sylvian | Mahuza | Outeniqua | Leopards |
| Fullback | Cheslin | Kolbe | Brackenfell | WP |
| Fullback | Tim | Swiel | Bishops | WP |
I’m very happy for Rob Du Preez, after some have doubted his talent. The question is, can he step it up at u21 next year, with Fred Zilinga having played for the u21’s for two seasons and Duncan Campbell having won the u19 Currie Cup in 2011. @Beet : Do you know what’s going on with Duncan. I know he came down to Sharks but didn’t see him play for the u21’s
@beet: Agree Muller will at least get game time there.
@Queenian: Durbanville.
@BOG: I have about 30 loads (of 26 pallet refrigirated trucks holding 24mt) loading out of mostly Cape Town and occasionally Durban to various destinations in SA every week, but these are contracted transporters, not my own trucks (I own the cargo)! Of this, about 6 – 8 loads would be to the EC region, so the hit-rate is quite low (2 out of 4500 loads or something). Btw, if you can’t buy chicken, what the hell do you eat? Smokey Pienkies?
With regards the FS lock problem, play JS at lock, if he is fit!
@Queenian: I think Muller probably realises he is in a good place for his career right now. He was once a promising junior in the WP setup but sometimes a player’s age timing is out to fit in with a Union’s plans. He could have hung around WP and he would probably have displaced a guy like De Kock Steenkamp by now. Instead he opted for game time and good for him, it has worked to his advantage. Another lock who showed huge potential as a junior was Andries Ferreira with the Bulls. He’s also done the right thing by moving to Bloem. He showed in a CC game last year how well he can play. He must just bring on the consistency now and the Cheetahs will be smiling.
@Ploegskaar: Were do you live
@BOG: They at least have Martin Muller for the Super15
@Ploegskaar: Where exactly is this pass- I know Penhoek going north- and how often does your truck travel there? Yenkuku has become too expensive at retail, so Im looking at “more affordable” alternatives My one concern in the Cheetahs, apart from injuries, is the availability of a quality lock. A promising young lock in Carl Wagner, has now gone to France@Muzi: Im not so sure that he will just walk into the side. His problems at the BBs, as far as Im concerned, went deeper than just the obvious. This worries me about the Cheetahs- they always buy discards. Sometimes they manage to polish them up, but it does not always work
@Queenian: LOL, not driving the truck, after off-loading at Kei Cold Store the balance of some of my stock was liberated on its way to Wilsonia Cold Store in EL! Happened years ago with an order of mine destined for Farmhouse in QT as well, only then the truck was carrying the then staple diet of the EC, mutton breast & flap!
@Ploegskaar: Ye they always ripping the trucks off going up the passes its like a hobby in that area. What truck were you driving.
@BOG:
Let’s hope Johann Sadie has learnt how to tackle he was poor in 2012.
@Queenian: Lost about 10% of a load in the pass from Queens on the way the Slummies in December (opening and skimming stock off while the truck was crawling in the lower gears). Tell your tjom RV the butcher (can’t recall his name on this site!) to return my inyama yenkuku
@beet: What is surprising is that Martin Muller has not been poached by one of the big province yet he is by far the best young lock in SA. Hope they use him in the S15 this year.
@BOG: No you misunderstand my tone. I’m note trying to be negative just objective. The Cheetahs have some good players but they have never been contenders in SR. There was a time not too long ago that they could not even win an overseas game.
For centre they have Barry Geel and can call on Griquas players like Jean Stemmet and dare I say JP Nel. Snyman was also a centre by trade before he moved to wing and they have even given Rhule a game at 13 in the CC.
Sadie is a good player i rekon you will see a whole new side to him this year.
@Ploegskaar: Ye you right about that
@BOG: Sadie will play to his potential in the FS setup, so sit back and enjoy, he’s a talented player. In a few years from now, when he plays in France, we will say the move from the Bulls saved his career.
@beet: Im not so sure why you are being so negative about the Cheetahs. Overall results may back you but have you ever wondered how many times they have lost by less than 7 points. And then of course, injuries have not helped. If they can keep all their talented loosies fit, there is no reason why they wont have their fare share of the ball. And I am looking forward to see how Ebersohn and Goosen will be doing next to each other. Who else can they play at 12 with Strauss having gone to PE?Im just not all that confident about Sadie.
@beet: Being first and being last on the S15 log is the same to me if you can’t win the damn thing in the end! Playing pretty at the bottom then looks much better than boring your way to the top and losing in the semi’s or the final anyway. Let’s be honest, the Stormers/WP having been playing kak rugby over the past 2/3 seasons and although they won the CC, they have not and will not win the S15 with that style of rugby. Sis man, Toetie, shame on you!
@Ploegskaar: Always more exciting to watch but we are talking about a team that finishes closer to the bottom than the top in superugby. They do more defending than attacking. Even the Stormers, the most successful SA SR team in recent years has placed great emphasis on defending well. Might not have won them the trophy yet but its gotten them to top of the log.
@beet: Nah, the aim of the game is to score more points, so if you score more than you leak, you are ok in my books
@Ploegskaar: @BOG: Definitely an exciting combination on attack but we are talking about a team that is most likely to play with less than 50% of the territory and possession stats. Attach to this the importance of centres being having to be good defenders as well, an area in which neither player has stood out, do you see the risk of a Ebersohn/Sadie midfield partnership being defensive liability or not? I imagined the choice would come down to one or the other to start at 13 but maybe Naka is thinking along the same lines as you guys with both players in.
Bog I too have always wanted to see Ebersohn play 12 to bring him more into the game on attack but I have concerns that unlike at school where he was brilliant at 12, senior rugby inside centre might not be his liking?
@BOG: I am sure you are right. Similarly 20% of his squad are also props…
@beet: Sadie is a 13 IMO. Must say, a Goosen/Ebersohn/Sadie/Rhule combo sounds plenty exciting, not?
@beet: Excuse me butting in but I believe that Ebersohn should be at 12, the position he had played all his life before playing for the Cheetahs@Ploegskaar: If Dries Swanepoel is fit and healthy, he will be at 13, I assure you. Theron had both of them in his sight when they were still at school and if they had not been withdrawn by the school, I am sure that they would have made the team.
@Ploegskaar: Off the topic a bit but along the lines of centres. IF Sadie regains his confidence at the Cheetahs, who would you back for the FS 13 jersey: Sadie or Ebersohn?
@BOG: No, play him at 13. As a matter of personal preference I prefer a good distributor & kicker at 10 and 12 and I think this suits the style of the modern game as well. Maybe I just rate Swiel more as an x-factor player, while I do think that Pollard is physical enough for a 12 (but not only physical). Then again, maybe I am just so fucking tired of the mules we play at 12 in this country at specifically senior level.
@beet: The reason- they paid too much for Brussouw. @Ludz: Baksteen V Heerden was a hooker.@Ploegskaar: Pollard at 12??? Are you suggesting that they drop the IRB player of the tournament in 2012 in favour of Pollard?? Dont think so.
@Ludz: Have you heard anything of Fortuin leaving Queens
@Andre T: really, isn’t that Carl van Heerden that Baksteen van Heerden oke who was Grey tighthead in 09
@Muzi: I must have been watching Swiel play in a parallel universe last year (and the preceding years for that matter), because I certainly saw nothing wrong with either his kicking out of hand or defence (which has always been very committed). What I did see though was vision (for space in general and putting players in space in particular), good passing skills, a very educated boot and most importantly a rugby brain, the latter understandably not being a requirement in your neck of the woods.
IMO Swiel at 10, Pollard at 12, Kolbe at 15 with, any of the inland donkeys around them will make a good team.
@Ludz: Carl van Heerden was the Monnas 2010 tighthead.
@BoishaaiPa: Perhaps not the best eg but Marcel vd Merwe did represent a few things that I was pointing to. He spent 4 seasons at the Cheetahs. During those years he made progress. The development aim was for him to eventually become a permanent fixture in their senior team. He was already well on his way to fulfilling this goal when the Bulls moved in and took him away.
@BOG: I agree that the Toyota sponsorship has helped the Cheetahs but there should be no illusion regarding the size of the sponsorship deal which will not bear resemblance to the size of the company sponsoring but rather what is considered a good return on the investment. The Cheetahs are finding it a bit easier to hold onto players but clearly as the case of Marcel, even the return to SA of Frans Steyn proves, there are 3 other RU’s in SA with bigger budgets.
The Cheetahs did not want to lose Marcel but they could not match the offer made to him by the Bulls.
@BoishaaiPa: Stephan Kotze moved to the Pumas this year and Carl van Heerden was the tighthead prop of Cheetahs u21 team last year before Pieter Stemmet overtook him
@BOG: Finishing School?..The didnt deem him good enough to play in the starting 15. He came off the bench most of the time! Just for interest sake..where are the other two 2009 Grey props at the moment playing?
@Ludz: Lets see if he does
@Ludz: I wonder how things are going to change with the new scrumming laws with the passive engagement? I think the days of 125kg hookers might be a thing of the past. Not sure whether this level falls under the new laws or not – I think it is only senior premier division and above that is not.
@beet: @BoishaaiPa: Marcel VD Merwe went to Grey Post matric”, as a “finishing school”, to remove the rough edges and then moved on when he was polished. Money? I dont think, with Toyota as sponsor, that their income is that much less than some of the other franchises. And austerity is something everyone will have to get used to. Believe me when I say that.
Especially happy for Rob du Preez, so Dawie is now gonna pick a 125 kg hooker?
Still a mystery that Theuns Reynoulds is not in the squad.
@beet: Just remember..Marcel did not learn his trade in the OFS…he was already a Cravenweek prop when he arrived in Bloem. He was first lured away as a schoolboy from Paarl…He is not a good example!
The only way to become a good centre is to have no brains, that has been proven since the early eighties. A centre must not think, he must just do…………they think too much and do to little………just do the first thing that comes to mind……….let the flyhalf do the thinking………….even if he’s destined to only play 2 months every season……….The Goose will do the thinking…………with bandages and all from ward 7 in Universitas.
@beet: A centre is only as good as his flyhalf makes him to be.
@BOG: Muscles in a gym? or Spur? They should rather be climbing trees and throwing kleilat when they’re young. I mean how did you get yours? Swinging around in trees.
Well done Grey shows who is the best
@BOG: Ja. Pity there isn’t more money in the FS. Even worse than seeing school graduates leaving must be witnessing a talent like Marcel vd Merwe rise thru the ranks only to be lured away when he’s about to come into his prime (before his unfortunate injury)
@beet: Better still- remained in the Free State!
@BOG: As recently as last year Paul was playing flyhalf for the Sharks u21s.
I think part of being a good rugby player is about knowing when to pass or when to hold and as is becoming common amongst all players these days, when to kick. So there is nothing wrong with taking the ball into contact. The frustration creeps in when players start to behave like they are preprogrammed and ignore the sensible options. These kind of players start to miss opportunities and soon their varied attacking skill sets start to diminish. I shouldn’t be too critical of the Bulls, their gameplan has made them the most successful SA team since pro rugby started. Yet I can’t help but believe that Venter and Serfontein would be far better players if they had gone to say WP who do coach up better balanced players, who in turn find it easier to succeed at test level.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: Slightly better than Dries? Then you have not really seen him play. He is almost on par with JS@beet: I was not the only one who rated Lindeque- Murray Mexted did as well when he was there. I did not see him at wing. But that was where they introduced Jordaan as well and because he is such an versatile player, he still showed Plumtree. You do know that at U14(even U15 perhaps) he played FH and Johan Goosen centre? I did leave out Venter, but not deliberately and I agree with Muzi, he does not like passing. If he was at the Sharks, he would be on the wing. And lets not forget Mr Steyn. We overlook the fact that he is still young.
@Muzi: Unfortunately that u21 setup was not ideal. With the Bulls dropping out of senior CC contention they sort of forced the change and even more unfortunate is that there is now such a contrast in styles between the 1D of the senior team and Nollis Marais’ more expansive approach. In 2011 Venter carved up the Sharks in that channel between the scrum and 12. Did not matter who was covering it, he found a way past and I agree he is selfish with the ball but on that occasion the second he felt contact he looked to offload. Showed what awesome talent he possesses. Now he’s gotten use to playing the non-thinking players rugby. Any hints of creativity have evaporated from his game.
@beet:
Without a doubt i rate Francois Venter but i have one issue with the guy he just doesn’t like to pass the ball when it’s on.
Even last year in the Absa Under 21 currie cup final Francois Venter was stingy with the ball at times even William Small Smith looked frustrated.
@Grasshopper: You are right. Danie was a machine. I remember watching the England test series live on TV in the 80’s. Danie ripped it up. He was the king of stepping. And for us kids at the time, apart from all the tries he scored, his sliding over the tryline and then purposely not dotting the ball down near the corner so that he could get up and to stroll to place it under the posts was simply priceless.
He used to coach the Pumas (might have been the Valke) a few years back but had some heart trouble and quite if I’m not mistaken. Looks like he’s just a businessman in PE these days. I will ask KCman. He is bound to know.
@HORSEFLY NO.1:
Ja it’s a concern for the Bulls that Dries is breaking down no doubt Tyler is the “beez neez”
@beet:
I hope the leopards coaches worked on his shaky defence.
Agree with you Obi had a superb currie cuo under 19 season.Just take a closer look at Luther and you will realise he’s got Nigerian blood running through his veins,
@Beet, a bit off topic but to do with centres. Do you know if Danie Gerber does any coaching? Jeez, I was watching the Ali Bacher interview of Naas Botha the other night and Danie was an absolute machine. Like a hot knife through butter! If only our modern centres could do that. Although Jan Serfontein looks like he has something close to Danie’s ability….
@BOG: You have left out Francois Venter
I really like Venter. However it’s just hard to see him or even Jan Serfontein who is the surest bet of the lot to make Boks develop to their true potential in Bulls jerseys. Already just one year out of Grey Bloem, Jan has started to switch off his lateral vision and very soon he will be a basic centre perhaps just a notch above Wynand Olivier but very similar in approach. These 2 GCB guys should be basing their game on modern era players like O’Driscoll, Conrad Smith, Stirling Mortlock, Tana Umaga and Jean de Villiers,
At the Sharks on D, I’d like to think Piet had more to offer than Paul but the Sharks desperately needs X-factor and Paul brings that while Piet had close to zero of it. Paul has explosive ability and a wonderful step. He’s shown that he can get past defenders. Paul also has far better ball skills. At the moment these are being underutilised. He should in actual fact be a player a lot closer in resemblance to James o’Connor. Piet on the other hand had some straightline speed but not nearly threatening enough. He didn’t have a step nor a shuffle, wasn’t strong on his feet and no powerful hand-off to speak of. He didn’t read the game particularly well and as a result his decision-making was below par. His best performances came as a wing in the Sharks u21 team but if he wants a future in SA rugby he can’t afford to play wing. Sorry if it seems like I’m bashing him. I remember being over the moon that he’d signed for the Sharks in 2010 and followed his junior career with interest. Pity it did not work out. It still worked out much better than some of other guys he played alongside. Grey College’s Adriaan Theisinger was a far greater let down at the Sharks.
@Muzi:
I loved the Serfontein, Fischer partnership for sa schools, thought is was sublime and i think Fisher is slightly better than Dries, also ,less injury prone…
I accept most of what you are saying, but much the same was said of Paul Jordaan. But now that he got the chance.?I just dont think that Lindeque was wise to go to Pretoria. There are many players who do well at school level, but then, for several reasons, fail later. But there are those who are more than just good school players and I believe that he was one of those. Not quite in the league of Messrs Jordaan, Serfontein, Swanepoel and perhaps S-S, but still up there.
@BOG: No doubt Neethling is a good player. Not just a scrummer. He works hard around the park.
I think the 3 SA Schools props ahead of him were Coetzee, Beerwinkel and Pierre Schoeman. 2 are there in the squad and Pierre just completed an unbelievably good 2012 rugby season during which he proved to be one of the star players of the season.
I know it’s slightly different for Grey Bloem coz so many of their players make it to become Boks but I still feel that school success does not necessarily translate into success after school. Piet Lindeque was brill at school but in recent season’s I believe I’ve seen a centre lacking many qualities needed to succeed at the top level. Does not dampen the fact that he was brilliant at school though.
@Muzi: What about Luther Obi that flyer from St Bennies? What an u19 season he has had. Could he be the next Raymond Rhule? What country is he from again?
Where on earth is lions hooker Eugene Le Maitre?
@Grasshopper:
Tyler Fisher is a beast he could be a great option next to Jan he’s a hard, straight-running centre and very gifted.
Let’s not forget Jan and Dries played at school as a VIP centre combination both of them have a great understanding between each other.
@Muzi: Thats my point- they drilled allright- especially around the abdomen.
I’ve always thought Tim Swiel looks a better player running at 15.
Oom Dawie can’t afford another Tony Jantjies situation swiel’s kicking out of hand,defence and tackling ability left a lot to be desired last year.
@Muzi, how about Tyler Fisher? Big and powerful….
It’s going to be interesting to see who will partner Jan Serfontein in midfield.A fully fit and in form Dries Swanepoel alongside Jan Serfontein is a mouthwatering prospect.
No doubt Geduld had an amazing 2012 for the WP under 19 side but i worry about his size.
@BOG:
Concerning Neethling Fouche he was just unlucky he came up against a well drilled front row. As a unit Marne,Morne and Pierre were outstanding for the Bulls 2011 craven week side.Also Irne at lock may have made a difference in terms of the power and weight for the Bulls in the scrum.
Even Kloffies fatty Justin Forwood did’t not even make SA schools but he did well for the Bulls under 19s in 2012.
Well done to all the boys, but a big well done to Marne Coetzee to bounce back from all the negativity of this year. I admit I was one who did not like the idea of him playing at Glenwood and leap frogging others, I still believe this is not the right way to operate but he has done well to firstly become a regular in the Sharks Under19 side and now in the Baby Bok squad. Good stuff young man….
Perhaps the biggest shock is Justin Benn missing out i though he was was one of the best loose forwards in the currie cup under 19 comp.
The inclusion of Neethling Fouche confirms a point. Two years ago, much was said about his (under) performance against the players from Pretoria. In fact, he was overlooked for the SA school side after getting his colours the previous year. It confirms that the muscles acquired in a gym outlasts the “muscles” bought at the Spur.