KZN Age-Group Rankings 2012

Using the 2 points for a win, 1 for a draw, 0 for a loss scoring system and then separating teams on the same total by points difference,  here are the results arrived at for the KZN 2nd XV, u16A, u15A and u14A age groups in 2012 for the 8 schools that competed against each other in strength vs strength matches:

(Warning: although this is very simplistic system, it is bound to be contentious, so reasonable suggests on how formula driven improvements can be made are welcomed and will be considered).

An exception to the scoring had to be made for the College vs Northwood 2nd team game, which did not take place. Both teams had their points gained from other games adjusted by dividing by their 6 games and then multiplying by 7 to bring them in line with the other teams. This did not have much impact on the overall table. The Northwood 2nd team was amongst the most improved teams over the course of the season. However it’s reasonable to assume they would have lost to College at the time. The College 2nd team played the Voortrekker 1st team instead on the date the match would have taken place.

2nd XV Table:

u16A Table:

u15A Table:

 

u14A Table:

 

 

22 Comments

  1. @beet – Quite interesting how close a “simplistic” system comes to being pretty accurate – Probably due to the small pool of teams.

    U16 – In my opinion is on the money, I think College might be a 1 point better than Westville, but they’ve had a rather disrupted season and haven’t been able to dominate as they did last year. Glenwood certainly 3rd, but not 3 points behind the other two – I would think a bit closer.

    U15 – Across the board this looks like a very unpredictable age group – Glenwood are easily the top team there, but after that it depends on who pitches up on game day. I think that particular year, the talented players were evenly spread across the schools, but Glenwood & Westville did some outside recruiting to strengthen their teams after the fact. Northwood are physically superior to any of the rest, but it remains to be seen if they will maintain that dominance as the boys “even out” and of course if Northwood can prevent their big stars from migrating to Glenwood.

    U14 – This is where it gets a little messy with the simplistic system – for me DHS looked streets ahead of the opposition throughout the season but somehow Glenwood sneaked 2 big scalps (KC & DHS) and got themselves on top. Anyone who has watched these teams this season will surely agree that DHS should be number 1, other than that it all looks pretty accurate.

    Thanks for yet another interesting point of debate :)

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  2. @Pedantic , agreed, but if we used that reasoning Glenwood then should be the Number one 1st Team , lol

    It will be good to see how the u16 do when they go into the U 18 arena

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  3. Pedantic- Westville(U15) got one new player at the beginning of the year and a Westville boy returned from Kearsney. Kearsney itself got a boy from DHS and a new scrumhalf as a minimum.I therefore don’t think it was recruiting that was the issue with Westville.There is great depth in the set-up hence the Bs beating Kearsney by 11 tries to nil and the game being called.They also put 40 points on Northwood in the first half and comfortably beat College twice.In fact at the trials the Possibles beat the Probables. In the last game of the season the whole B team played as the A team and vice aversa.The A team had two unfortunate draws which I think the opposition will take, a 7 pointer to Northwood where they had serious chances and were only 5 points down to Glenwood in the last minute with an overlap on offer.The Kearsney draw was the only local game where they did not show progression.Too many handbags.
    The U14 table really just shows how close they all are. What we have to look for now is how they develop.

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  4. Interesting stats these – I would say that Glenwood are overall the clear leaders in Kzn taking all rugby age groups into account – boy ! have things changed since I left the school – this means that for the next 3-4 years
    Glenwood should be force to be reckoned with :lol:

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  5. @Beet, looking at the 2nd’s results it just shows Glenwood probably had 2 1st team strength teams and that selection must have been very difficult. Many boys in the 1st team rode on their reputations from 2011 to stay in this years side. Many of those 2nd team players should have been starters in the 1st team. What is going to be interesting for me is how they go against Affies and Grey Bloem 2nd’s (Cherries), that will show us where they stand. I also believe the Glenwood 3rd’s are unbeaten, so the depth at Glenwood is starting to improve. What is exciting is many from these 2 teams are back next year and will be battled hardened from a year in the opens. Kay and Mazibuku should be a good lock pairing for us.

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  6. @All, to put some perspective on the Glenwood Under15A’s, they were unbeaten in KZN but had 3 losses to very tough opposition away at festivals, these being 8-18 to Boland Landbou, 7-20 to Oakdale and 0-17 to Monnas. I know they played Outeniqua too but don’t have the results from that. These 3 teams are their schools best sides in years so they are not too bad, but it shows KZN has some catching up to do in the next couple of years to be really competitive.

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  7. @star: What I mean by outside recruiting, is that they found some boys outside of the traditional feeder schools … a comment in relation to the local talent being spread evenly across the schools.

    The depth of Westville U15’s is glaringly obvious by the fact that Under 15A’s were almost unrecognisable progressing from U14A – probably due to U14B players moving up and vice versa – easily the most improved “squad” from U14 to U15 and with natural progression should be a really good U16 side.

    Kearsney certainly got 2 new players, a scrumhalf who in my opinion is the best in his age group in KZN and a utility forward from DHS .. sadly the ex DHS boy got very limited game time due to a concussion – he is a talented player and should make his presence felt next year.

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  8. @ Grasshooper , yes the 3rds are also unbeaten , but if you look further down you will see that the 4th 5th and others have had mostly wins this season , very few or only a loss or two in the 4ths and 5ths , one frgets how well these teams have performed

    what will be interesting to see is how the B and C and D teams of the age groups have done as well , in teh u16 age group this could be inmportant for depth next year in the u18 opens

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  9. Perhaps an addition to this system would be a point awarded to an away win. For example: 3 for a win, 2 for a draw, 1 for an away win and 0 for a loss.

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  10. If you agregate the points you get as follows:
    Glenwood 50
    Westville 43
    College 36
    Kearsney 25
    Hilton 24
    DHS 20
    MHS 19
    NW 15
    What is clear is that the”super” schools are still in command and that DHS has crept into the next band which includes the PVT schools.NW still have it all to do.

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  11. @star: Just goes to show how much emphasis is placed on 1st team rugby. MHS are being widely acknowledged as the best team in KZN and in the eyes of some the Glenwood season is a dismal failure. Yet the bigger picture tells of another Glenwood success story year while MHS appear to be lagging quite far behind.

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  12. @Star, yep that shows a better picture of depth. It’s a vast improvement in depth from both Glenwood and Westville in the past decade. Both schools used to be around 5th and 6th respectively and with the added focus on improving this the results speak for themselves. I now see the Glenwood vs Westville game as the main big derby in Durban with regards to strength, obviously with regards to history it will always be DHS. That is why I think the schools need to agree a home and away fixture each year. Most of the lower teams play each other 2 or 3 times a year anyway, they might as well make the whole school play again…

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  13. Beet-Yes the BIG picture is sometimes lost in translation.I also hate to bring this up but as Kearsney lost to both MHS and Hilton they pick up the Wooden Spoon as far as the top PVT schools are concerned.Life is beautiful.

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  14. 2ndXV- agree with this ranking 100%. as for DHS, well, it was probably our worst season in our worst 15 years of rugby. dont think they can get any worse

    U16a- even though the College side is clearly not the same as last year, i think they still deserve no.1. Glenwood i think were very lucky to win against us. their placing does not tell you that they have 8 kzn players.

    U15A- well done Glenwood! their results vs non kzn opposition are shocking which shows you how far we have to go. well, DHS , after losing 7 players i didnt expect much anyways, expect a little bit of recruiting to be done here. well done Westville for most improved!!

    U14A- haha. i obviously dont agree with no.1 spot but wont argue TOO much since it is a simplistic table. GW got dodgy wins over DHS and KC. my rankings would be:
    1) DHS
    2) KEARSNEY
    3) GLENWOOD
    4) WESTVILLE
    5) MICHAELHOUSE
    6) COLLEGE
    7) HILTON
    8) NORTHWOOD

    more accurate :mrgreen:

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  15. (REF’S) I FULLY AGREE IT BEING UNSPORTSMANSHIPLIKE TO COMPLAIN ABOUT REF’S. ESPECIALLY IF ONLY A FEW MISTAKES ARE MADE. SOMETIMES THOSE MISTAKES LEADS TO DISASTEROUS OUTCOMES. IT IS ESPECIALLY FRUSTRATING WHEN THEY ARE MADE IN THE LAST MINUTES OF CLOSE GAMES. WE ALL HAVE TO FACE THE FACT THAT THEY ARE ONLY HUMAN.

    IF IT IS TRUE THAT THEY ARE NOT GETTING PAID FOR THEIR DUTIES ON SATURDAYS, I THINK SCHOOLS SHOULD START IMPLEMENTING A PAYMENT SYSTEM TO COMPENSATE THEM.

    THE POINT IS, IN MY 15 YEARS OF SUPPORTING SCHOOL RUGBY I HAVE ONLY CAME ACROSS 3 REF’S WHO I THOUGH WERE UNFAIR FROM START TO FINISH, WHO HAD A REAL IMPACT ON THE OUTCOME OF THE GAME. THEIR AIM WAS TO INFLUENCE THE GAME TO THE ADAVANTAGE OF ONE SPECIFIC TEAM. SOME TEAMS LOOSE EVEN BEFORE THEY START THEIR GAME. THE OTHER TYPE (ONLY WITNESSED ONCE), THOSE WHO IGNORES BLATANT DIRTY PLAY.

    I KNOW A LETTER TO THE UNION CAN BE DONE, BUT WHO REALLY GOES THAT FAR. AND REALLY AT THE END IT IS JUST A GAME.

    I WAS THINKING MAYBE WE CAN CREATE A SPACE WHERE FRUSTRATIONS COULD BE VOICED. SURE ALL THE SOUR GRAPES WILL BE ATTRACTED.

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  16. @Horsie, I agree with your Under14 ranking. Overall the DHS side was the best in the province. But again the results at Under14 have very little influence on what happens at 1st team level 4 years later. When I was Under13 we lost by 30 to Westville and by matric lost by a point. Let’s see how the Under14’s develop….

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  17. @grasshopper
    Its not only about building a great 1st XV but also creating a winning legacy and showing primary school boys that DHS is paving its own way to the top.
    In the end we don’t want this group to be the only one that challenges for no.1 but also other groups to do the same in years to come.
    This is,after all, how GW also started their surge into being a KZN powerhouse.

    And also,a very good U14 side usually does turn into a very good 1st XV if well managed and coached. Look at Kearsney, we all knew their dominance was coming because of their awesome 2009 U14A side. The school will have to make sure they don’t lose their best players and they will be just fine.

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  18. There it is in blue and black ! – Horsie stating that Glenwood are a “powerhouse ” – there were heated debates on my ex favourite blog site about this with some acusing Glenwood of bragging about being a powerhouse – I ‘m off to go and get my eyes checked :-D

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  19. The U16 age group of Westville really did very well this year. Boys moved from their old positions as so did Donovan Kelly. He played flank in primary school, the u/14 coach moved him to hooker and with his club rugby season he moved to scrumhalf (just like his brother, Dwayne) and he started in the 2nd team playing as scrumhalf and kicker. Westville boys are already busy with their pre-season rugby for 2013.

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  20. GOOD TO SEE DONOVAN PLAYING SUCH GOOD RUGBY. HOPEFULLY THE WESTVILLE COACHES WILL PLAY HIM IN HIS RIGHTFULL POSITION NEXT YEAR AND HE AND JAMES CAN MATCH UP AGAINST EACH OTHER AT THE WESTVILLE / KEARSNEY FIXTURE. THEY HAVE BECOME GOOD FRIENDS ON THE TOUR TO KEMPTON PARK AND IT WILL BE WITH INTEREST HOW THEY BOTH FARE NEXT YEAR

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  21. @Rugby Mom:
    I think all schools are now busy with their pre season training, most schoolsfocusing on gym to bulk up a little bit at this moment in time. Im sure the glenwood U14s are already being put into the gym so they can have a size advantage over everyone else and try to batter themselves to victory!(Wont work against us!!)

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