Glenwood’s annual fixture against Grey College has been cancelled due to the poor weather. The two most recent games in Durban drew 10 000 plus crowds to Dixons field. Glenwood beat Grey College 14-10 in 2006. They were the last KZN team to achieve this feat. Although Glenwood has not had the strongest season, the same could be said of Grey Bloem. The match definitely represented an opportunity for the Green Machine to record a rare win over the SA powerhouse team and end their season on a high.
@All Black: Agreed , that was what I was trying to say in my post , if the boys where to look at this type of intense gyming then it needs to be done in a coordinated manner, not just running into gym and pumping iron, in order to strengthen muscles , you need to strengthen those that attach it to the bone, Ligaments and tendons have a bad blood supply and hence working these are more often more important than the Major Muscle groups themselves,
PT and others are more concerned with and normally done have the expertise other than a 3 month diploma , and we have the conditioning growing lads, You are 100% right the muscle tears the ligament or tendon from the bone, as these are the attaches between muscles and bone,
The Bulls have in the last two years done more in the strengthening of the Ligaments and Tendons over the larger Muscles as this is there the majority of injuries are occurring.
Now if it is happening on a super 15 level where they guys have the adequate attention and coaches, imagine the damage being done at School boy level in the attempt to build Bulk,
Once damage is done to these, repairs aren’t as easy as muscle tears etc . The idea of bulking for school boys comes from the look of the Polynesians , who are genetically built , the impact they have had on rugby and defining size has influenced the school boys. BUT look at the quality players , they aren’t all about size
All. If you want to risk your kids future then let them gym now. I became alarmed at the amount of knee and joint injuries at U19 and U20 level. I received an article from Australia showing the damage done to sportsman who strengthened muscles too early and left weakened ligaments/tendons. The proof/cause was so blatant. When, in the old days, did you hear of schoolboys tearing muscles off the bone? Thigh muscles that had become so strong and out of kilter with the rest of the body that they simply tore. A knee that dislocates as it is not strong enough to handle the strength of the body it belongs to. Seen it with my own eyes and it is not pretty. Everyone to their own but please be aware that nature has a way of saying ‘Told you so’.
@Pedantic: I agree that it comes down to balance. Last century, when I was at school, the 1st team backs were also those who won the sprint races at school – the forwards won the athletics events like shot put, hammer throw, discus, etc. In fact, most 1st team players were all round athletes rather than specialist rugby players.
If there is no balance between strength, speed and agility the players will be pushed over, left behind or side stepped.
In terms of gyming, I read an article from Tim Noakes about gyming which stated that most boys mature early now so should be able to workout from about 14-15. If I remember correctly, it was a few years after puberty.
@Pedantic:i think that one can only really apply the proper science behind this to players in dedicated academies, like the Russians in gym etc , and can’t be applied to our school boys and school boy rugby , with so called gym instructors etc , who combine with teaching
@Pedantic: I have to disagree, 100m sprinting has more to do with starts and physical make up , Bolt has a slow start , due to his tall stature and higher center or gravity, also times he is posting now are slowing, this could because of either age ( which I doubt) or increased boy mass from Weight Training . Also 100m sprinting has more to do with arm speed and strength then legs,
Strength has more to do with Core muscles rather than Bulk and weight, you will find stronger boys that are smaller in stature to bigger bulker kids, based on pure strength, And example of this is Gymnastics, these boys will be far stronger than boys who do gym, they are also quicker and less prone to injury , Ligaments and Tendons can’t grow, they are genetically bound. So when you increase muscle mass, disproportionate to tendon size, you will end up with greater injuries. one mustn’t confuse strength with muscle mass, Yes they can be strengthen but to a point , but in growing bodies, increase muscle mass, could and usually Is disproportionate to muscle mass growth and the lack of correct and proper selected exercises that improve your movement quality because if you move improperly, you can easily injury your joints and their attachments
Mass equals weight and not power, Definition: Muscle strength refers to the amount of force a muscle can produce with a single maximal effort. Size of muscle cells and the ability of nerves to activate them are related to muscle strength.
Power is defined as the amount of work performed per unit of time. Power is an element of skill-related fitness that is needed to excel in athletic performance. Increased strength does not always translate into increased power. For example, a strong upper body lifts a high amount of weight. However a strong upper body does not always have the ability to throw a shot put very far if enough speed cannot be generated. Strength and power are required to excel in throwing a shot put.
@beet: I don’t think you can put an age to it – teenagers are all very different and develop at different rates.
For some of the more advanced guys, free weights should be fine from 15 upwards, whereas for the slower developers they may need another year or two. I think it’s best to get individual advice from a Biokineticist.
@GreenHopper – In another study, resistance training has proven effective in injury prevention – so who do we believe?
Did you see the 100M sprinters at the Olympics? I’m not sure big muscles makes an athlete slower ;)
IMHO it all comes down to balance – a big, fast player will usually outplay a small, fast player. You want to do resistance training to increase strength & power – this usually results in an increase in mass. If the players do a properly designed programme it will certainly help them all round – gym for strength and power, field for SAQ and drills for skills.
firstly what is the objective of weights , are you looking at getting the players bigger, because if you do that something has to be sacrificed, first it is speed, then handling skills. More injuries, a recent study has shown that knee injuries are a direct result of increased weight which is resultant of “bulking up”
MHS showed this year , you don’t need to be big to play the game, what you need is clever and articulate players think and running into gaps,
Dead weights cause injuries , I would suggest looking at the old Charles Atlas website , here was a body builder that never lifted a weight , but was renowned for stature ? if you read his article, and theory it hold a strong argument, simply what he says , is if you look at Nature and the wild creatures out there, example a lion, looks at its muscle definition, extreme, but they have never lifted weights , fruit for thought , I suggest one reads it
@Pedantic: Help: Is there a point or age reached when kids should move away from resistance exercises and start to make use of dead weights. Without knowing anything on the topic, I get the idea that resistance exercises can only take a player so far, that they are good for strength and basic muscle building but that free weights will help a young player get bigger, quicker???
If they stick to full body exercises such as squats, deadlift, barbell rows etc. and keep the weight 10% lower than their body weight they should be fine (assuming proper form).
A good alternative is resistance bands/tubes as they offer relative resistance as opposed to a “dead weight” – perfect for younger athletes.
@Star, see here; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVqcjNY8gLI
I bit of a naf soundtrack though….
You are right. A lot of the time we take things for granted. I was talking to my son(U15) about S.Mxoli and he told me he is in the gym with the boys. I need to confirm what supervision there is and what type of weights the BOYS are doing.
A certain boy in U15 left College and one of the reasons was he was not allowed into the gym whenever he wanted. Felt like asking the father to come and have a look at a DVD that shows what damage you can do to kids who gym too early. I blame the parents in most cases but the staff and coaches also have a big role to play in educating boys. Parents wake up.
@All, exactly! These kids are not being supervised and are pushing themselves to crazy limits. I used to be a gym instructor at Westville Virgin Active in the late 90’s and there was this kid from Westville (Boer I think his name was who was recruited from Richards Bay as he could barely speak a word of English). He was benching 130kg for 10 reps and squating 180kg at 17! Now I gymed naturally from 17 and was 21 at the time. I knew what I was doing and was pretty big myself and I could not even do that. It was plain obvious the kid was on something. No 17 year old kid should be able to push more than a big 21 year old…..simple…..Drugs/Supplements are easily acquired and a serious problem at all schools…..
I am an anti gym parent, but my son is not in the scrum. I always tell him, only free weights. He is a slightly built guy and insist he naturally mature. I think there is too much competition to get big, and that’s when the kids go underground and start hiding what they are doing, not cool. We need to be responsible and supportive parents, always putting their well being first.
I have to agree through, the front row guys do need strength training, even at 16 years, but you can’t do that with only resistance training surely?
@ Pedantic : I agree with you fully, backline players are being pushed hard as well, the centres are being pushed the most to get bulked. Iv seen what good gym and nutrition does. A boy I know good rugby player, with a bright future. Benched more than some front rowers, his max was 95 kg’s and he’s a centre
@Griffon: Education is required here! How can an U15 scrumhalf expect to bench the same as a front row ?
Time for parents and coaches to educate their boys. If they haven’t done so already, they’ve failed in their responsibilities.
@ Pendantic: You’ll find that most of these boys gym with 1st team players or players higher in terms of teams or experience. There’s hardly any supervision, they do what they think will get them big quickly. These days the benchmark for benching at u15 is 60 or above. They might even get belittled if they can only manage five reps. So the pressure makes them take banned substances. School sports now are to highly competitive. The benchmark for bench at u16 is getting to a hundred kg’s. So the guys struggling at 60 gym harder than what their bodys can handle. I think the school coaches have not sent out the message of good nutrition and gyming properly
@Griffon: The question is .. are these boys in the gym being supervised?
Comes down to parenting … you need to get involved or hire a PT to do the job – you can’t let 16 year old boys do this alone – they’re not emotionally ready.
Doping is a very real challenge, as are alcohol and recreational drugs – parents need to be aware!
You’d be surprised about how many boys take supplements now. They see them as the answer to catch up or be ahead of the field. Walk into any of your local gym and you’ll see the wieght area is dominated with boys less than 18, all of them gymng hard. The pressure of rugby is getting to them, let’s hope the pressure doesn’t get to the point where they start doping. You’ll find steroids or banned substances are getting to easy to get now.
@Gungets & Grasshopper: Exactly what is said in that statement – safe technique and no competition. (Tim Noakes was involved in the BokSmart programme, so I’m guessing he has vetted anything documented)
Conditioning for rugby comes down to discipline – if the athletes are disciplined enough to stick to their individual programmes (or are kept in check by in-house Bio’s or personal trainers) then it’s beneficial for them. Gym “bunnies” training for “beach muscles” are the ones at risk.
So bottom line … discipline and good nutrition = great results. No supplements required if you can feed them properly.
My boy has been on a supplement recommended by his Bio – strangely enough, he experienced excellent results WITHOUT the supplement in the past 4 weeks on simply good eating habits … makes one wonder if they’re even necessary.
@Pedantic: As long as it remains resistance training and is supervised. The whole “I press more than you ..” competition is going on all the time along with testosterone overdose, so the dangers exist. This is actually, I think, where the boarders have an advantage as gym sessions are supervised all the time. Outside school, eeeisch. Witness 2 years ago when 6 KES boys got pinned for steroid and stimulants, 3 of the kids were not even sportsmen, they were just buffing up for the chicks – using illegally supplied drugs.
The use of “supplements” is very widespread and getting any real information on what is in them, what is safe (natural) and what is growth oriented (creatine, glutamine, glucosamine, etc) is nearly impossible without a doctor. It has to be a worry. Also have to be very careful with the stimulants, even the caffiene based ones. I have been trying to sift through the info but the lack of transparency from the manufacturers is a bad sign!
@Pedantic, then obviously UK biokinetists are wrong. I wonder if Tim Noakes would advocate that statement. What happens in real life is the programmes are not checked and boys start pushing too heavy, techniques fall away and injuries happen. I was one of those 16 year old gym bunnies, suffering now with niggles everywhere 16 years later. It’s only natural that boys start competing for who can bench the most etc. Unless schools have trainers watching these kids everytime they train then unfortunately the above is a dream situation….
@Grasshopper: I disagree with you on that – all the top high schools have conditioning programs for their young players that include resistance training.
Here is a quote from the BokSmart conditioning for rugby document :
“There is a myth that prepubescent and adolescent players should avoid resistance training because it will stunt growth. This myth is not supported by any scientific evidence
and numerous medical, health and professional bodies advocate that there are advantages for youth engaging in resistance training providing the programme is properly designed and supervised with safe
technique and no competition.
In particular, resistance training has been shown to be the key in the prevention of injury in youth and adolescent athletes.”
Excellent document for anyone mentoring young rugby players – it also includes training programs for youth rugby players …
http://www.sarugby.co.za/boksmart/pdf/BokSmart%20-%20Physical%20conditioning%20for%20rugby.pdf
@All, 15 year old boys should not be doing extensive gym work, especially bulking up. They have not finished growing yet and weight training can effect this growth. Let’s hope they are not taking Creatine and Glutamine either. 17 is probably the best time to start gym work….
@Griffon: His peers may be catching up in height, but in terms of strength, skill and confidence it’s going to take them a pretty long time to come close.
After off-season gym work you can expect him to be 100 KG+, an exciting prospect for the future.
@ Horsy: I’v noticed that most of his peers are catching up to him with growth. I was looking forward to see him in action today against Grey College, until the game cancellation
@Griffon:
I think Staples gets the nod as the biggest. Weight wise I don’t know but in height he’s abbout 1.93m.
@ NW White : With all due respect to Northwood, although a good school with high standards. I think the move would be good for MrT, a player with his talent need to be tested against top opposition, of which Northwood only offers KZN opposition. At College he would go up against the best from around the country. Just a note of interest any 1 know who’s the biggest 8th man in u15 and if so what are his stats(weight, height etc). I’v heard about an u16 8th man from another province who was 108 kg’s and nd in the 1.90’s. These boys are getting big
@NW_Knight:
I see you have faith in your boys for next year, I think its time you told us how you see NW doing next year and expectations etc..
Hopefully the. Boy. Isn’t. Forced to stay. As he is a HUGE. Fan of College and its his DREAM school
@Horsey: He wouldn’t be nearly good enough for the 2013 front row. Mr T will stay.
@NW_Knight:
2nds? Why not 1st? As for your mrT in u15. I hear he’s trying to find his way to Maritzburg College. Immense talent. That and. Is IMHO better that the. KZN U16A loosehead prop, we missed him after we lost him!
Also, am glad. To hear that none. Of our players in our U14A have left the school after many HUGE offers from other schools,even some B team players being offered!
@Horsey: Behaviorally not the type of boy NW wants. Besides, he would have been a scholarship and BE boys and would only have made 2nd’s, so no point.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: What was the boys age, his academic performance and behaviour record like. Fail those and he is not really the kid you need.
@Grasshopper: Drop me you r gmail address to Gungetstuft@gmail.com – I will send you some of the pictures that mates of mine took. Not 6m sure, but it was a lot more that 2cm.
@NW KNight
Why did northwood do that? Perfect opportunity wasted! We all know they need the players.
Its funny how most boys leave theeir schools for NW then leave NW 2 or 3 months later
@Gungets, very true…..I saw the pics, no chance it was a metre even 50cm. I have seen hundreds of pics on twitter and Facebook, 10cm at most. The snowmen were tiny and the snow ankle deep at most. I ski about 3 times a year and have seen proper snow, over 6metres in St Anton in Tirol, where the snow was higher than the buses. It looks like most of Durban were in the Midlands today touching the holy white stuff…..
@Grasshopper: Jaaaaa, ou Grassy, but the Austrians, Swiss, Swedes and Wegians all throw their clothes off if the temperature gets above about 8. Poms too, I have seen tjikkins lying in the sun, lunch time on a working day, in Hyde Park, in their Victoria’s Secret, because it was 12 degrees. Horses for courses, I am not partial to snow, unless you pack it into very tight little blocks and pour Scotch over it.
And it was a hell of a lot more than 2cm. The Battlefields region had close to a metre, Richmond outside PMB had 50cm.
@Gungets, what a laugh….people rushing to the Berg to see about 2cm of snow on the ground……gosh it just shows how rare snow is in SA. Austrians, Swiss, Swedes and Norwegians would just laugh….
Just heard from the College 4th Form bus coming back from a Leadership camp in the berg that the toll road at Escourt has queues “as far as the eye can see”. Van Reenen’s might be open, but the number of people going to see the snow is having the same effect as closing it.
@Griffon, let’s hope the boys leaving had nothing to do with age issues, otherwise that would be sweeping the problem under the carpet.
@CyndiAtRugby: A-team games would be really nice but its a pity the first team game can’t at least take place.
I guess so much coordinating goes into these trips across provincial borders that there has to be certainty early on otherwise it becomes stressful to manage.
@Griffon: Themba applied at NW, but was turned down. The 3 U15 payers have applied and NW are evaluating.
@Horsey: Best to wait until Fennel’s at DHS and has been there for a week. Harmer changed his mind with NW, even though he had a contract with them. And I know the critics will have a lot to say about NW, but the same could be said about most schools.
Looking forward to watching the Doops and Westville contest the 2nd and 3rd spots next year.
I have heard that Glenwood and Grey are negotiating for a time to still play this game but it sounds like it will be mainly A teams and possibly exclude the matrics who are starting trials soon. Its a pity they didn’t just postpone the Thursday games for Saturday as the weather is stunning today and by all accounts, the roads are clear.
@ Gungets Tuft: I’v heard they’re at a school in northern natal, my only guess is that they’re at Sarel Cilliers or Glencoe.
@ Horsy : Apperently they were unhappy about the way they were treated, but I don’t know the full story. I think some school polotics may have been the reason for their departure
@griffon
I have heard. Stories of. People seeinng Themba at George Campbell. But haven’t. Heard the reasons, maybe you could explain?
@Griffon: Do you know where the two boys are going?
Perhaps the U15A boys are due to leave at the end of the year, 1/2 year seems like a strange time to change schools.
@ Those interested: I’v heard and can confirm that Westville have lost 2 prominent players. Those players being Andile Ndlovu(2011 16 A centre and Grant Khomo centre) and Themba Zingcume(2012 16A hooker and Grant Khomo hooker). This is quite a loss with Andile being declared fit to play sevens, with his devastating attack he could open up most defenses. I can also confirm that the 3 u15A boys who were due to depart for Northwood are still at Westville, with 2 still very much contributing to the U15 A soccer team.
@Grasshopper: I am not knocking KES at all, I think if they had tested themselves they would have beaten a lot of teams. I just get a little needled when okes drop in the “domination” theme, obviously just to provoke.
@Gungets, very good points. I sometimes wish there was a remarks column as Glenwood too have travelled the country far and wide, Wildeklawer, Pukke and Affies…….it seems KES is very comfortable staying in Gauteng with only one long trip to DHS. Anyway, KES were a very good side, they had half the Lions side and Marx in the SA Schools squad. However, the past 2 years have been strong for them, it’s pretty difficult to keep that standard up……
@Grasshopper: Yeah well – the common ones are Bishops (College won 35-18), Affies (College lost 33-7), PBHS (College won one 19-18 and lost one 25-26), Westville (College won 29-9).
Nothing much in it, other than 2 x 2000km return trips to Grey-fest and Wildeklaver and games against Grey PE (15), Paul Roos (10) and Diamandveld (16), before a 450km bus ride to KES. It’s all anecdotal of course, there is no Remarks Column in the history books, but contextual for those who really, really want to evaluate. Of course the KES game is significant because it robbed College of the ridiculous talent of Dan Kriel for the rest of the season, someone that House, Hilton, Westville and Glenwood did not need to face later. Another one in that invisible Remarks Column. We might then not have seen Marcel Coetsee who was a great find and certainly did the team proud.
@Grasshopper: its quite a mixed bag there. KES has the makings of a Top 10 team but obviously in local derbies their opponents really front up.
@Gungets, sorry missed that, of course PBHS is Pretoria Boys High
KES results 2012
vs Parktown won 82-3 (shame poor Parktown, becoming like our Pinetown)
vs Jeppe lost 13-28
vs PBHS lost 17-20
vs St Stithians won 59-23
vs Westville won 40-15
vs Monnas won 15-11
vs College won 42-25
vs DHS won 65-11
vs Affies lost 13-15
vs Viadana won 41-3
vs Bishops won 28-13 (Bishops had their worst year in a while, lost to Paarl Gim 57-3!)
vs St Andrews won 58-8
vs St Albans won 62-10
vs PBHS lost 17-21
So only played 14 games, won 9, lost 4. Barring PBHS, Monnas and Jeppe, most of the JHB opposition is quite weak. Played only 1 top 10 school in Affies….
@beet:
) but im sure the rumours are just that and not more
the DoE doesnt have a say here since he’ll be employed by the governing body so i dont think it has anything to do with that.
yah itll be sad if he doesnt come, a lot has been sad about him changing KES for the better and many hoped hed do the same for DHS (besides Kershaw maybe
@HORSEFLY NO.1: I agree, it would be sad if he doesn’t come. A lot is riding on the positive vibe having him on board will create.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: The same kind of rumours that suggested he was coming, which I heard for the first time back in about May 2011. It’s hard to know what to believe. DHS isn’t an easy gig. I’m not even sure if other schools have CEOs and Headmasters and if the Dept of Education will allow this. They may not have a say in the decision but they do have a measure of power to enforce decisions in each and every school
@Grasshopper: PBHS is Pretoria Boys High. Just chose a few schools that College and KES had in common. We didn’t play Jeppe.
@beet
I’m sure he is still coming. Would be sad if he wasn’t after a big deal was made of him with him coming to DHS Founders Day, addressing old boys and having a cocktail party with DPHS parents! Anyways, what makes you think he might not come?
@Gungets, rather ask how KES went against Pretoria Boys High and Jeppe?
@Roger: How did KES go against Grey College?
Did they play any of Bishops, Grey PE, Paul Roos, PBHS, Affies etc and how did they go. If you are going to enter a d#ck measuring contest then you both have to haal uit en wys?!?!
@Roger, 2010 and 2011 were probably the worst years in Hilton and Michaelhouses rugby history, which extends more than 100 years…..nice try! Glenwood have been the strongest rugby school in KZN consistently over the past decade so until you play them you cannot claim to have any stranglehold over KZN. Michaelhouse and Hilton are much smaller schools so battle with depth so can have great years but then very average ones. Kearsney and Westville are likely to be the strongest KZN schools in 2013 so KES will have their chance to prove themselves again at Westville in 2013, I’ll be there and keen to catch up over a beer or three…
@Roger: Howzit Roger. Is it 100% confirmed that Fennel is coming to DHS coz every other week I hear that he might no longer be coming
@ Greenwood have not visited 365 for months – what the hell happened to it? Crap site now! Is Vleis hanging around here?
‘cos Kershaw is running scared – even more so now that Fennel is at DHS!
Don’t forget the regular thumpings of Westville as well as Hilton and Michaehouse in 2011 and 2010
Hello Roger
wellcome to this site – and in the corner we have Roger ! and in the other corner we have the Glenwood boys – Round number one and Roger comes out firing !
@Roger, the game was scheduled to take place at Glenwood this Friday and methinks it would have been closer than you think. We have not lost by big margins to Grey in Durban, in Bloem is another story but that applies to 99% of teams going there. KES dominance, hahaha…….against a College side who had played 2 tough games at Wildeklawer in the same week and then losing their best player, DHS who are ranked about 7th in KZN and Westville who are about 5th. The top sides in KZN this year were Michaelhouse and Kearsney, with Glenwood and College a close 3rd and 4th. I would love to see Glenwood take on KES but it seems the headmasters can’t find room for this fixture….
Beet – thanks for inviting me to the blog!
This is the best news for Glenwood’s season – they will learn more by staying in Durban than by standing under the poles in Bloem every 30 seconds!
Looking forward to next season when Kes will extend their dominance for the fourth year over the KZN schools. Will Glenwood step up and challenge them!
I was looking forward to seeing the Glenwood fullback play. He is a seriously good rugby player. I’m sure he’ll wear the no.15 jersey for GM next year. With Sparks, Stopforth and Fouche there for wings perhaps Vermaak has to be converted into an outside centre???
Grey Bloem have their big derby against Paul Roos coming up next week so I doubt they will reschedule.
Next week is the 7s tournament but I do agree that it should be rescheduled for another day. Here’s hoping …
A pity about this – My wish and I’m sure many others may feel this way was to see Marne score a try for Glenwood – he nearly did at College
why can’t they play next week – at this time of the year most schools are quiete on the sports front
A real pity! Surely they could reschedule for another date. I can’t believe 3cm of snow shuts roads and causes such mayhem…..anyway…..safety of the boys is priority in the end….
My heart goes out to all those matric boys who will miss this wonderful opportunity. I can only imagine how they are feeling missing out on their much anticipated final game of the year.