The does and don’t of schoolboy rugby somethings get a bit blurry. Certainly the professional approach that most of the top rugby schools adopt these days, pushes the boundary of what is still educationally beneficial, in the quest to stay competitive.
Amongst those sensitive issues are the use of the reserve bench for first team matches.
There are zero complaints about a second team player who’s just completed a 60-minute challenge, coming on to replace an injured 1st XV starter. However in the interests of safety, this should register the biggest red flag of the lot. A boy who should be physically tired and had little time to recuperate, is expected to step up and play at a more intensely physically demanding level in terms of strength, speed and collisions. It is hard to believe that this requirement has remained a background issue.
Conversely there is a lot to say about a fresh reserve who played no part in an earlier match and comes on as a strategic replacement. The well-being of the 15 opponents on the park who have to oppose fresh legs is a consideration in the debate but we all know it is the influence on the scoreline that drives the arguments against the use of a squad system.
If you break it right down, in its purest form, the squad system is a form of cheating, made acceptable by covertness (maybe underhandedness is a better word). Keep the intentions and the information away from your opponent school on the match day and treat it like its none of their business.
The thing is all this should be transparent and should be shared with the opponents and should be agreed to beforehand.
The argument of rehabilitating players who return from injury by offering them 20-minutes of 1st XV action, should be revised to offering them 20-minutes of 2nd XV action.
A really good idea is the approach that Garsfontein and Affies adopted on Saturday. Switch the 2nd XV and u16A matches, so that the latter becomes the curtain-raiser for the main game. In this way, a school affords it’s second team players the benefit of a full match coupled with a more respectable rest recovery time of at least 65-minutes and up to 120-minutes if they are going to be deployed as impact players.
Beet – if he motivation for a squad system as opposed to 2nds players was player safety as opposed to using@, a lot of us, me included would feel differently about the notion. I guess how it was sold when it started is what drives some of our feelings toward it. It’s now been relegated into the “school of win at all costs” cabinet, and it’s helluva tough to get out of there.
@Grizzly: jip ek moet einlik maar ,hy was seker vol vaalwyn gister…
@Smallies: Sien ou truiloos is terug en hom ou self.Los hom,sy volgende move is van die blog af.
@kantako:Boksburg mense het nie dit nodig nie hulle is net klein bietjie flouer as Panners
@Smallies: daai manne van Boksburg. Hulle drink lelike sterkmaak water
@boerboel: noem n span beter gekondisioneer as Grey sedert 2018….
@boerboel: cherries se wen ratio is amper 95% dude ….
@Smallies: bs they take the reserves at max halftime
good strategy for but not good for cherries
winning motive too paramount
abd gcb not better conditioned than the other top schools
this coming from a man who stated gcb also runs onto the field different to other schools
@kantako: stem 100% saam met jou ,al daai seuns un die Grey 23 wat bench feature vir die cherries ook ,mense wat hier so K@k en kerm kyk mos maar gewoonlik Grey se games oppietv en sien nie die Cherries games nie ,Grey se spelers is die beste gekondisioneerde spelers in die land en dit is die groot rede waarom die bench so vars lyk altyd ….
@apple: all the players on the Grey bench are starters for the second team,I’ve watched many a game at the school and can tell you they all play vital roles in the cherries setup …
Dit is vir my altyd snaaks, wanneer ek sien Garsfontein doen goed, dan lees ek hulle koop spelers, of hulle het n span vol O/19 spelers. Nou speel Grey met n squad sisteem en dit is onregverdig? Nooit tree hulle buite die reels op nie ? In Transvaal word dit toegelaat dat O/19 spelers mag speel in die beker so dan is dit binne die reels, alle skole koop spelers party koop net beter spelers as ander, en dit is mos nie hulle skuld nie? Die reel se daar mag 8 spelers op die bank wees (volle voorry), en jy mag 7 veranderinge maak (U/19 law variations mag jy meer veranderinge maak), en dis presies wat Grey doen, so weereens dit is binne die reels, en almal kan dit doen indien hulle wil ? Ek weet nie of Grey nog die Montpellier ooreenkoms het nie ek glo amper nie, maar as hulle het dan is dit ook goed vir hulle. Dit is duidelik dat Grey meer Springbokke en Profesionele spelers ontwikkel as enige ander skool in die land, so duidelik doen hulle iets reg, dalk moet ander skole dit meer volg. Ek sien te veel skole wat jaarliks top 10 eindig maar geen of bitter min professionele spelers oplewer wat dit maak, dalk moet hulle meer omgee vir die seuns se toekoms.
As far as injuries and player welfare go.
VOLGENS MY is dit n klomp snert man. Daar is geen bewyse dat n seun wat meer of minder gespeel het n besering kry teenoor n ander seun nie, dit is n besering en n ongeluk, niemand beplan vir dit nie en niemand draf op die veld om aspris seer te kry of iemand aspris seer te maak nie. Kyk maar die arme seun van Dale wat van die veld af gestap het, wat n tragedie en dit was n ongeluk.
Elke liewe dag tydens pouse speel seuns rugby, of naweke in die parkie saam die buurt se laaities, daar is geen ouderdom beperkings nie en geen afrigters nie, geen skeidsregter vir geelkaarte op tackles nie, die enigste REEL is dat die seun wie se bal dit is mag se wie saam mag speel. En raai wat, ek weet nie van een ernstige hospitaal besering nie ? Miskien word beserings afgerig met die manier hoe almal probeer speel? Miskien soek die afrigters te veel kontak en te veel fases want hulle sien dit op tv ? In die parkie of tydens pouse, het Jannie geleer om weg te hardloop van kontak want Pietie gaan vir hom hard tackle.
Om te se dat skole soos Grey wat met squads speel nie vir alle seuns geleentheid gee om te speel nie. Weereens verwys ek na die aantal Pro spelers wat Grey oplewer, so hulle doen iets reg, dan ook wil ek se dat hulle darem jaarliks n helse klomp wedstryde speel en elke naweek 20 spanne in die veld stoot, dit gee redelik baie seuns n geleentheid om rugby te speel, nie almal kan in die 1ste span wees nie en dit is n voorreg om deel van die 23 te wees. Ek is seker as jy die seuns die keuse gee sal hy graag op die bankie sit vir daardie voorreg, ek hoor van seuns wat by Top skole eerder 3de span speel as om n beurs te aanvaar by n ander skool wat hom waarborg om 1ste span te speel? Grey en die manne haal darem groot geld uit vir hulle rugbyprogram en hulle het n standaard en n verwagting om goed te presteer, darom is hulle vir die laaste 100 jaar onder die top 5 in die land, so hoekom moet hulle nou vir elke seun n gelyke tyd gee om te speel elke naweek? Daar is skole wat dit doen, daar is skole wat bemark om te se “almal by ons maak saak” of “elkeen is belangrik” of “almal kry kans om te speel wen of verloor” , en dit is nie reg of verkeerd nie, dit is hoe die bestuur die skool dryf, maar as dit kom by rugby is daardie skole nie regtig onder die top 50 nie. Hierdie is mos n rugby blog ?
Given that Grey has a squad system, and their followers are always on the right side of any moral argument, or at least pretend to be, it must be all above board. Assume it helps with the Montpellier “arrangement”. But how does it work in practice? All 7 gets their 15-20 min? Can they also use players that have played in the second team, or only the 7. In the UK there is a groundswell that only injured players must be replaced, or limited to 3, that the bomb squad is causing more serious injuries when a fresh player runs into somebody that has been playing.
@boerboel: en….
@boerboel: ja nee party skole het dit erg hoor ,huĺle gaan rokkel sommer ou afrigters terug in n poging om weer bo uit te kom,hulle het lyk my geen vertroue in die onderwysers om af te rig nie….
12 druipelinge 2021 shocker
jip die obsessie oor rugbyprowess – hulle worry nie oor die eindproduk hartseer
@Smallies: Solank die span binne die reels optree is daar niks mee fout nie.Dis soos Rassie en Jaques wat n hele voory op die bank Kies.Doen wat die beste vir jou span is met jou bank binne die reels.
@Jong Matie: is betrokke dat jy weet wat aangaan daar….gaan kyk maar gerus wat se wapen op die bank se broeke is as jy dan nou regtig wil weet daar is cherries op hulle broeke
@Jong Matie: Jy maak nie sin nie.
Moet die kind ‘n busdrywer word agv te veel beserings omdat die skool ouderwetse benaderings gebruik het?
@Smallies: Ja en die maan is van kaas gemaak.
@Jong Matie: en wie se vir jou dat die Grey eerste span bench nie n volle game speel nie,al daai seuns start vir die cherries plus hulle speel nog vir die First team ook
@Rainier: Eintlik die teenoorgestelde, MEER besorg. Daar is nou nuwe beroepsopsies wat nie 20 jaar terug bestaan het nie.
Sien die groter prentjie.
@Jong Matie: Kan mens dan aanneem die skole is minder besorg oor die welstand van hulle kinders?
@Beet: It is a well entrenched practice these days to have the u/16 game as the curtain raiser and not the 2nd team to give the “subbies” a break before the 1st team game.
@Beet, one needs to understand that Rugby has become a viable option as a full blown career, albeit as a player, administrator, coach, physio, bus driver etc.
Its only natural for the game to become more professional at a much earlier stage than 30 years ago.
@Smallies: Glad nie die geval nie. Net nie gelyke speelveld nie, want beide Paul Roos, Gim, en Boishaai gee hul seuns die geleentheid om volle rugbywedstryde te speel.
@Jong Matie: @boerboel: jip jealousy makes you nasty ne boys….
@Jong Matie: nou wie se vir jou daai mannetjie speel net 15 min op n Saterdag….
@Deon: One of my friends, Ollie, was playing prop for Paul Roos 3rd team, scoring two tries that match. He then benched for the second team and within 10 mins the prop got injured and he had to go on as substitute. he scored three tries. He then had to bench for the first team. Likewise the 1st team prop got injured within 10 mins and he had to sub yet again. He scored five tries for the first team, totalling 10 tries for the day. After that game he was chosen for the first team for the rest of the season.
cannot remember the cherries beating boishaai seccies in paarl for a long time
was 30/40 – 10 last year
obviosly this sub approach playing a role
@Beet, why is the squad system, broken down or not, in any form, cheating and underhanded, regardless whether it is applied by seniors or juniors? Or does your summation only apply to juniors? Why should the team be disclosed beforehand, like discovery in a court case? And if it (disclosure) is done beforehand, will the system be acceptable to you? Is the element surprise made possible by depth not fair to you? Should possible reserves to be possibly drawn from lower teams also be fixed beforehand?
Beet, this seems like people are trying to have it both ways. If there is agreement that using 2nd team players, that played a full match, on the bench is not in their interest the squad system should be encouraged. I doubt even moving the 2nd team and /16 matches around will greatly enhance the situation.
Muscle glycogen levels and circulating creatine kinase levels take up to 24 hours to indicate the conditions of the muscles and muscle damage.
So squad systems actually protect the boys.
What does the SARU rules say about this?
@Grey Brak: The poor kid that is in the first team squad (bench), only getting 15min every Saturday in terms of game time, he is the biggest loser at the end of the day.
@Grey Brak: ok. So a cherries dont loose. But the question is does GCB abuse the sub-situation.
@Boerboel: Cherries haven’t taken a lot more losses. Do you have the stats to back that up?
Looking at their record GCB must have been doing it since 1855…
yip Beet- this a shocker- the winning motive above a kids enjoyment of the sport.
GCB the biggest culprit- their second side has beet taking a lot more losses because 6/7 ot heir best doesnt play in the 2nd halve