The KZN team is officially out. Glenwood (9) and Kearsney (6) dominate the selections with Maritzburg College (4), Westville (2) and DHS (1).
| POSITION | NAME | SURNAME | SCHOOL | 2012 REP. |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Prop | Thabiso | Zuma | Maritzburg College | |
| Prop | Mazamo | Majola | Westville | |
| Hooker | Kerron | van Vuuren | Glenwood | |
| Hooker | Jordan | Meaker | Kearsney | |
| Prop | Koos | Tredoux | Glenwood | Bulls Grant Khomo |
| Prop | Njabula | Gumede | Maritzburg College | |
| Lock | Ntokozo | Vidima | Glenwood | |
| Lock | Daniel | du Preez | Kearsney | SA Schools |
| Flank | Mzwandile | Mazibuko | Glenwood | |
| Flank | Jean-Luc | du Preez | Kearsney | SA Schools |
| No.8 | Ayron | Schramm | Kearsney | Academy Week |
| No.8 | Jaco | Coetzee | Glenwood | |
| Scrumhalf | Matthew | Reece-Edwards | Kearsney | |
| Scrumhalf | Reece | McHardy | Westville | |
| Flyhalf | Kurt | Webster | DHS | SA HP u16 |
| Flyhalf | Tristan | Tedder | Kearsney | |
| Wing | Sphamandla | Ngcobo | Glenwood | Academy Week |
| Centre | Akona | Nela | Glenwood | Academy Week |
| Centre | Marcel | Coetzee | Maritzburg College | |
| Wing | Banele | Ngwenya | Maritzburg College | Academy Week |
| Utility | Morné | Joubert | Glenwood | SA HP u16 |
| Fullback | Corné | Vermaak | Glenwood | Craven Week |
I think players of colour in SBR have become good enough that quota doesn’t really matter,can’t think of a PD player in CW that hasn’t earned their colours. The demographics in teir 1 1st teams paint a similar picture IMO
After all is said and done the KZN cw side is selected and face one of the top 2 sides, (Bulls and or the WP) in their first game. The Bulls have named a strong squad and this side will test KZN in all facets of the game. The true ability and BMT of all players will expose all our perseptions and either prove or disprove all points of view!
See you tomorrow Glenwood. May it be a great day for all.
@beet:
Do you have the KZN U13 teams??
@McCulleys Workshop: Jeez – what was I thinking. My bad. I meant Hilton (5), House (10) not the other way around. That’s more like it no?
Or arrogant.
@GreenBlooded: climb out of your Butt. Two/Three really good 2nd players in GW seconds, one of them an over age Prop imported from Middelburg. Hilton by 10, just bloody insulting.
@TheGoose: The captain would he the Gupta that AB mentioned
@pongola: Last year, there were many who beleived that the Glenwood 2nds might actually beat the 1st!! They were unbeaten last year – I stand to correction but I think the 2nds are unbeaten this year so far as well. I think the Glenwood 2nds would beats most 1st teams other than College, Westville, Kearsney. My opinion, Glenwood 2nds would beat the following schools 1st – DHS (by 5), Northwood (by 20), Hilton (by 10), Michaelhouse (by 5). When you are looking at depth – Glenwood definately has it. So do College, so do Westville. The other schools don’t unfortunately. They say that the Cherries are the second best side n the Freestate – and that is probably true. I wonder where the Glenwood 2nds would rank in KZN?
@Greenblooded: Haaaahahahahahahaha
@The Goose: Reece-Edwards or Dan Du Preez
@GreenBlooded: Funny.
Any idea on who will captain the team?
@McCulleys Workshop – how big is the differnce between a school like glenwoods second and first team?
@GreenBlooded: What about the Chinese? There are lots of them around now. I also believe you will have to make a place for a Gupta.
I think that the 44 places in the 2 teams should comprise one player from each of the following schools: Glenwood, College, Westville, DHS, Kearsney, Michaelhouse, Hilton, St Charles, Northwood, Voortrekker, Hillcrest, Kloof, Werda, Queensburgh, Crawford North Coast, St Henry’s, Thomas More, Kingsway, Kuswag, Gelofte, Pinetown, Grosvenor, Pioneer, Vryheid, Brettonwood, Treverton, Weston, Wartburg, Port Shepstone, Port Natal, Linpark, Alexandra and 12 other schools from Ladysmith, Dundee, Richards Bay. Of these 44 players, there should be 20 blacks, 10 indians, 5 coloureds, 5 English speaking whites and 4 Afrikaans speaking whites.
The Blue Bulls will not know what hit them at Craven week.
You had 2 in 85. Pinetown had 3. Westville had some as well. The coaches were changed regularly. In 85 it was Heymans from Weston I think.
If you look at the squad, I feel it is as strong as you can get in KZN! There are so many complaints coming through, but it needs to be substantiated by the players you feel should be there!
I agree with Grasshopper that those players he mentions are the best from Glenwood and should have made it.
Likewise, from KC – The Doops, Schramm, Reece-Edwards, Teddar are fantastic players and deserve their places. Meaker was an outsider and I was not sure he would be considered due to his size, but his performances this season have been exceptional thus far and his lineouts have been fantastic.
If there are players you feel should be there that are not, mention names – this would at least open up a debate on the positions.
Ie – Holenstein should have been there in my oponion, it does not even look like he made the Academy team, which is crazy.
I also feel Glenwood are maybe a little over represented, but the truth is, who would you rather have in the specific positions…
@McCulleys Workshop: Thank goodness. I seriously thought that you were on something strong
@Westers: I agree with you, but we both know the reality of living in this beautiful land of ours, and I ma not being sarcastic. Hopefully we will see changes sooner rather than later.
You are right, maybe the Sharks Academy needs to open a high school. The scary thing is that this idea is not a pie in the sky. That way, their favouritism towards certain schools should disappear.
@All Black: We have never had 13 in the A team, never. Our best ever prior to 2000, was 7 in 1964. In 84 we had 3 in Dennis Baronet (SA schools), F Swanepoel (Cpt) & BG Smith. In 85 we had just one in BG Smith again. Most years we got about 2…..do you know who was the coaches over the years?
@Amalekite: @Slam: Amalekite and Slam, I’ve applied a huge amount of thought to my view, probably about 2 minutes worth, which seems to be the amount of time some intelligentcia in decision making positions have applied to the process and evolution of SBR, in particular in KZN. So yes I am pulling the piss, and glad if it sounds absurd, because it is!
@Grasshopper: You are way off the mark with these comments. I can remember a Natal schools squad with something like 13 Glenwood players. In 1984 College were unbeaten in KZN and got 1 player, Joel Stransky in the side. In 1985 they were no 1 in the country and got 6. You are generalising here. I am not going to get into a long winded argument over this with all your stats etc but please dont make out that the past selections were flawed in favour of certain schools.
@Grasshopper: Agree
@Amalekite: Is it not unfair to the players who are not being selected in the current process because of the quota system. Transparency and honesty are two key elements to success in any organisation – be it business or sport. Look at our countrys leaders if you want proof.
@Westers: Agreed, the process is flawed. I suggested that the tier 1 coaches select a team each that does not include their players and then the selectors take these 10 teams and select a probables based on the most selected players. Then the tier 2 schools do the same to create a possibles scenario. The 2 sides play each other at trials and then the team is selected by a panel of 10 selectors, 5 from the tier 2 and 5 from tier 1……..that way the final teams will have more schools involved. I for one cannot believe there are not good enough players, be it only one or two, from schools like George Campbell, Clifton, Port Natal, Voortrekker, Gelofte, Port Shepstone etc. I think for Glenwood, Vermaak, Joubert, Nela, Sparks, Coetzee and Mazibuko are there because they are the best in their positions, so there on merit…
@McCulleys Workshop: Are you taking the piss?? Why the hell would I want some of my money to fund the Glenwood HP rugby program.
@McCulleys Workshop: You are so far off the mark. If you extend your argument further the Sharks might as well set up a Sharks School. Better still, let Heineke Meyer be a Super 15 coach and have his pick of all players in SA so that we can win the S15 (maybe).
@Grasshopper: You are 100% correct in most of what you say. However, it is not a Westville feeling hard-done by scenario. The real issue is that the best 22 U18 schoolboy rugby players come from only 5 schools.
My real issue is the selectors are not doing their jobs. If Webster can make it (deservedly) from a weak DHS side, surely there are other players in the province who if looked at in their school games would be given more of a chance. It is too easy for the coaches (selectors) to sit back and take the players they work with every week.
It is time for the coaches and selectors to become neutral.
@Westers: Unfortunately it would be politically incorrect to do this and it would be unfair towards the selected players.
@McCulleys Workshop: Geez McCulley ! I am shocked at your point of view. Did you actually think about what you wrote? Anyway, I hope that you stand alone on that one.
I’ll say it again for over 5 decades DHS & College were the strongest sides in KZN so got the most representation and many boys from ‘lesser’ schools like Glenwood, Kearsney, Westville, Northwood, Michaelhouse and Hilton were never picked for Natal Schools. I’m sure the coaches probably came from College and DHS in those years. This is not to point fingers at any schools, so please don’t take it as an attack on any school. In the past decade Glenwood, Michaelhouse and Kearsney have constantly been the top 3 schools in the province with College and Westville close behind. Therefore, KZN representation has favoured Kearsney and Glenwood. Yes, the coaches are from those 2 schools so an obvious bias, but that is human nature. Look at Heyneke Meyer he will obvious have bias towards the Bulls. This is really a Westville feeling hard done by scenario as they have little representation, fair enough. I for one would have had Martin, Jackson and Ellse in the team instead of Tredoux, Vidima and Coetzee. A fair balance would have been Glenwood 6, Kearsney 6, College 4, Westville 5 and DHS 1. But Barend Steyn and Erasmus picked the team they wanted and we just have to live with that. I feel that Glenwood with 9 is too much and does start to make us question the process, but was this ever questioned for 50 years prior to 2000, probably not. I remember Westville flyhald in the 90’s Sean Flanagan get picked for SA schools but he was nowhere near the best flyhalf in the country………their are injustices every year…..
@Amalekite: Beet and Amalekite, it is very important to have at least one leading side in KZN and Glenwood have proved they are, time and again, it is important to attract top players school players from out of the province, even if they are over age, so at least the academy has a strong feeding ground for Sharks rugby. So if my rands spend at the Shark Tank goes partly to funding GW or NW, I don’t mind. Hopefully this results in a chosen KZN school beating Gim, Affies, Outenique, Garsfontein, Grey – all in one year. Surely this is possible.
Seeing as PD players have to be picked, why not list them if they have not been picked on merit. This would take all the heat out of the debate and it would be clear why certain players have been left out.
@Amalekite: I agree with you Beet. It is refreshing for someone to have the guts to call a spade a spade. Unfortunately, there are too many people who refuse to accept the reality of what is happening. I think it that it may have to do with old school gentlemanly thinking. Sadly, things have changed a lot of the past few years.
@star: Very interesting points. Hopefully our backline will man up !
@Amalekite: And so would Westvilles
@Amalekite: and so would Colleges. Mind you Hilton’s 2nds are very handy! And I’ve heard Westvilles 2nd’s are good.
@McCulleys Workshop: And so would Kearsney’s second team !
Everyone is talking up the 1st game against the Bulls and focusing on the tight forward exhanges. However the only cross union clash this year has been the GW /Garsies game where GW shipped 45 points. I mentioned before the game that the average weight of Garsies backline was almost 10 kgs more than GW. This together with their greater experience resulted in them almost bullying GW who apparently fell off a lot of tackles.GW has grown a lot since then as happens with a young side It is however still in the mid field where I think we might battle and where the strength of Ellse will be missed.
@Amalekite: and their 2nd’s would convincingly beat 95% of 1st teams in KZN.
@McCulleys Workshop: @Amalekite: Come on you must admit, with all their forethought, good acquisitions, top coaching and union support/involvement, they actually deserve it. Don’t take it away from them!
@beet: Beet you are sounding like Barney.
Another interesting observation is that the number of PD players is always on the button of what is required by the quotas. I would venture to say that our teams would be stronger if we did away with these quotas.
This brings me to my next point. One of the reasons why Glenwood are so well represented, is because they supply about half of the PD players. Even College are quite well represented for the same reason, in spite of having an average season in their books.
Conclusion: If the other strong rugby schools want more reps, they had better recruit more PD players.
Yes, the Glenwood second team is quite good, but just how good?
This year their 1sts lose to Kearsney by 1 point, their seconds beat Kearsney 13-9.
Glenwood then get 18 players into both KZN teams versus 8 from Kearsney – go figure.
@McCulleys Workshop: It seems like the Union chooses who it wants to align itself with not the other way around
In KZN the time is fast approaching for anyone linked to a school falling outside this sphere of preference to limit their support of the Sharks to just a DSTV subscription. Don’t buy corporate box, season tickets, merchandise etc etc. This extra revenue might be used against your own school.
The Sharks have many people in key positions now that did not school in KZN and probably don’t care much about the competitive health of KZN schools rugby. I have a feeling they would be just fine with a Rover club rugby type scenario in SBR just as long as its to their benefit. BUT if their decisions start to hurt their own pocket, they will quickly come around and realise that pretend caring involves doing a bit of real sharing.
Interesting. Zuma is in the College 3rd team.
@mcculleys workshop – i totally disagree with you. natal needs to do well at cravenweek , how are you gonna win the bulls?glenwood will not win affies and lost to garsfontein now you pick a team with 40% glenwood guys to take on a combined affies garsies waterkloof team? and if the lose that one they will probaly take on the pumas with nelspruit middelburg? hopefully they give us the limpopo bulls for the final day that the can win one game. this selectors say that in the whole of natal they only play rugby in durban/pietermaritzburg.
richardsbay empangeni same size as pmb, newcastle vryheid dundee ladysmith ?
when does your schools recruit u/13? because a lot of player start growing at 15/16?
@Tjoppa: Howzit Tjoppa, the reason seems quite simple, a number of schools have gone on a complete recruitment drive to build HP rugby centre’s, align with Unions to feed into their academies etc. So their is a concentration in rugby power in a fewer number of schools. Glenwood as a good example have been so successful at this that they have a number of second team players in the academy squad. No doubt they, and the Cherries would beat most first teams on an average day. An increase in a diverse number of schools contributing to CW will only take place when more schools realize the HUGE importance of building these HP academies and aligning with the unions.
Interesting Fact – In the 2012 Craven Week the amount of schools represented was less by 48 in comparison to 2002. More or less 20%. Makes you think.
@Grasshopper: Does it really matter what school these players come from?
The selectors already have a restriction in that quotas are enforced so have to jumble their selections around that – surely having to ensure each school has fair representation would further complicate matters and just make the team weaker.
This looks like a strong side, must admit, maybe a bit thin in tight 5 though.
@TheGoose: Arnott has had a very unfortunate season in terms of injuries. As a result he has probably only got to maybe a max of 60-65% of the form he is capable of producing injury free, in the few games he did in play before getting injured again.
@pongola: Very sorry
Completely forgot to post the team. Done now on a new thread,
@TheGoose: Well said – we should not be looking at school but rather at these boys as KZN reprentatives.
Well done to all the boy, make us proud!!
anyone know the country districts team
As an avid and passionate Glenwood supporter I do feel there are probably 2 or 3 too many Glenwood players in both sides. However, these things go in cycles, from 1950 to 2000 Glenwood never got many picks because the coaches were from other schools. Many a Glenwood player missed out on selection and back then it was far less transparent and fair then now. Barend Steyn is the head coach so surely he gets what he wants, Sean will have a say but not the ultimate one. I do find it strange that no Hilton or Michaelhouse boys made it. When Barend and Sean move on another coach from another school will come in and there will be a slight bias to that school. Coaches will obviously go with what they know and trust. It’s not fair really, hence the need for an independent selection panel. These issues occur in the Cape too where virtually no southern suburb kids make it because the coaches are from Paarl. Anyway, it’s like Heyneke Meyer leaving out Brussouw, a tragedy but nothing we can do about it.
@GreenBlooded: Well said!!
@beet
Do you know by any chance what the KZN U13A and U13B teams are?????
@Griffon:
No doubt Thobejane is quality but its something I had to ask because it made no sense to me.
Last year the GWD boy who kept him out of the A side is Dewaldt de Waal who’s playing 3rds now. But goodluck to him, hope he shows those GWD masters what they missing out on, and if they can’t see, DHS will welcome him with open arms
@ Grasshopper : I’d heard he’s had a slight injury, so maybe coming back to fourths to get into the swing of things is fine. But playing 16B the whole season last year ? I know that Thobejane has more than pace, he’s good under the high ball, plus quite a decent defender. I’d expect him to be playing 2nds by the end of the season, if not …
@Grasshopper: Sparks is 1.57 but this wing looks skinnier and thus smaller. He is very light.
@Griffon: I heard he was injured so coming through the ranks. Also heard he is quicker than Sparks so maybe they just going will and all out pace option to negate sides with extreme pace….
@ Horsefly : Thobejane is a class player, obviously there might be a few politics in the school. Don’t know how Glenwood will be able to explain this happening. Last year 16B and makes Grant Khomo, this year 4ths and makes Academy. Not be negative, but if I were him I’d look in a change in schools, if my coaches don’t appreciate my talents. I’m sure he didn’t make GK and Academy by luck
well done again to all boys. a great effort. 6 not bad from Kearsney. A testament to a great season. Play hard and make us proud. Will be watching with interest.
@TheGoose: you are wasting your time.
Well done to all those boys who got selected for the U18 and U16 teams. There will be those that are ecstatic and those that are bitterly dissappointed, those that feel hard done by and those that can count themselves very lucky. To those that made it, you are now KZN – not GW, MC, WV, KC or whatever. Get it together as a team, bond with each other and make us all proud. For those who didn’t – there are many ways to handle dissappointment – some good, some bad. Fine examples of both can be found above and on the other 2 threads.
@TheGoose:
Him getting dropped to 2nds mightve had a lot to do with it.
@Gungets Tuft:
Yeah I totally agree with you but it seems to me that your blazer being green is starting to count more and more these days??
Can anyone comment on what happened to Rupert Kay from GW – he made it last year and hasn’t featured at all this year.
@HORSEFLY NO.1: You are going to drive yourself mad there boet. Sometimes you just need to say “Ja, well, no fine” and wander off to console the wounded. Expect some elevated performances from those left out. From what I head Else is not the sort of oke to drop his head, he will have a point to prove. Hope he keeps a lid on it, easy to let emotions boil over. Cool, calm heads called for, from us and the boys.
@Beast unfortunately the side has been chosen and the least you can do is to support the boys that has been chosen. Pointing fingers won’t help at all, have you watched any of these Glenwood boys before? When I watched the Glenwood vs Kearsney game I knew that most of the CW players were gonna come from the 2 schools.
Coetzee is an outside centre for College I think and fully deserves a spot in this team. I felt he mightve been unlucky last year but well deserved.
Yeah no I only agree with 6 of the Glenwood selections here…in the Academy side I hear that GWD winger Thobejane is a 4th team player at GWD. Last year he made Grant Khomo playing 16B. Explanation please???!!!
@Westers: Ellse was one of my favourites at KERF. In a losing team, he looked solid and creative!
Very very surprised not to see him playing in the CW side. I think Coetzee plays wing for College, I do not know much about him? Anyone able to comment on his performances?
@Grasshopper: Vidima was good at trials but yes, he looks a bit small – think Tredoux has massiive potential plus he played for the Bulls u16 last year and may know a trick or two when they play the Bulls
@The Beast: Beast – sniping at each other is not really cool on this site. Give it a break and rather be a positive contributor to SBR.
I think Tredoux and Vidima were lucky, but the rest look solid. I would have gone with an older more experienced prop and taller bigger lock instead of these 2, but that is how the cookie crumbles. Good luck to all the boys!
How Brad Ellse has been omitted is beyond me. Reading all the posts over the last few weeks of people who have attended trials he has been one of the performers at trials. I can only talk of having seen him play in the Westville side and there are not many games I can recall where he was not one of the standout players.
Glenwood getting 9 players is a joke. They may be better than Westville but 9 to 2 better does not make sense – and 9 to 1 in the academy side takes it beyond a joke.
Maybe the GK side will make up for this.
@Ruggersake: Who is Coetzee at centre? Is he the wing from College?
Congratulations to all the boys, this team can go all the way.
To the selectors excellent choice at no. 8 Scramm, Coetzee at centre….
Do not think Vidima will be doing much jumping – Schramm and Du Preez will prob be used in the lineout with Jean Luc and Wandi running off the lineouts
Well done to all the College boys, DHS boy, Westville boys and Kearsneylads, wow you guys must be Beasts to keep the Hoppers out.
@TheGoose: You can be 2ft2 as long as you from Glenwood you seem to make the side.
So happy to see Meaker has made it – was worried that he may be a bit small, but a great all round player with huge heart! Well done to all the boys
Good Luck at CW
Judging by these KZN sides, there is no way in the world that anybody could ever beat Glenwood.
Do Michaelhouse and Hilton still play rugby??
The other 12 boys in the Glenwood 2nds must feel desperately unlucky. Bad luck lads.
Well done to the guys here !! Also well done to those like Jaco and Tedder who couldn’t make KZN U16 last year due to different reasons, and to Webster who made KZN U16 and SA U16 as a flanker and a year later has made KZN U18A as a #10. Awesome achievements!!
Surprised not to see Brad Ellse here though
Well done to all the boys that have been chosen. This looks like a very strong side. I have no complains at all, hopefully this side can beat the Blue Bulls in their opening game.
well done to glenwood getting 18 boys into the two teams.
@beet: Whatever he is, the props are going to have to throw him pretty high up, but luckily he is light…
@TheGoose: I very much doubt he is 1.89 but I’ve been way off with judgement before
@Grasshopper: Yip – playing against RG Snyman (2.04m I think) and the St. Alban’s lock (SA Schools 2012) in the opening game vs the Bull is going to be tough!
@TheGoose: Yep, hence my concern at the lock position, unless they looking to play the Doops together there and use Vidima as a utility forward….
@TheGoose: re: Vidima – just found the KERF Programme – He was in jersey #18, 1.89m and 93kg.
Unbelievable performance from the Glenwood boys. Cracker to have 9 in the squad. Anyone have stats on Vidima’s size and weight?
Ellse from Westville is unlucky! But not a bad side considering all the politics etc. Worried about the lock position though….
Wow 4 MC boys made it! Brilliant stuff. Well done to all the lads who made the team. Best of luck in Craven Week.
Brad Ellse’s omission is a surprise. Feel for Arnott from MHS too after making it last year.