There’s an interesting article by Hannes Nienaber on his www.SchoolofRugby.co.za website.
Link: http://www.schoolofrugby.co.za/news/8568-ondersoek-deur-valke-rugbyunie-bevind-stassen-is-wel-o-18
Rumours have been doing the rounds in all parts of the country for quite a while that Hendré Stassen the top rated EG Jansen and Valke Craven Week captain is older than claimed to be. The outcome of the investigate should bring this to an end.
The basic details of Nienaber’s article are that the Valke Rugby Union conducted an investigate and concluded that Stassen is still under-18, that his actual date of birth is 08 January 1997 and that his official registered date of birth of 21 December 1996, was in fact the date his mother went into hospital and not the day on which he was born. The unusual detail was that in 2011, Home Affairs changed his ID number to reflect 29 December 1997 as his date of birth.
Rumour is he wont be selected due to all the hype around the matter and the protection of a boy against all the damage that has been done to him in his personal capacity.
Oupadejoostin…soos wat die Departement van Binnelandse se nie noodwendig altyd in orde is nie, bestaan daar myns insiens altyd ‘n moontlikheid dat die outeur van sie artikel se feitlike bewerings gemaak nie noodwendig akkuraat is nie.
Nog nooit gehoor dat ‘n kind op 5 jaar en 7 maande skool toe is nie, by implikasie beteken dit dat die kind eers na die winter skool vakansie by ‘n laerskool ingeskryf is? Klink nie vir my ‘n suiwer bewering van die outeur nie!
Hoe dit ookal sy, dink ek Stassen sal vir SA Skole gekies word, in welke geval hulle heel moontlik weer die onderwerp sal ondersoek, en vertrou ek dat Stassen op daardie staduim bo verdenking geplaas sal word
Met al die foute en herstelle moet daar onafhanklik na die hospitaal rekords gekyk word.
@Gungets Tuft: Agree.
@Djou: @4×4: Djou die tabel is korrek en jou wisk is op datum. Dit was die maklike deel en die uitdaging is nou om die inligting wat hulle as motifering deur gegee het by die tabel toe te pas. Hulle beweer dat hy reeds op n jong ouderdom groot was en het hulle hom vroeer skool toe gestuur op 5 jaar en 7 maande. Ek dink almal het reeds besef die 7 maande kan nie reg wees nie, maar nie te min kom ons werk daar op. Daar is drie belangrike aspekte wat hul deur gegee het. Die eerste is die vroeg skool toe, die tweede is die 5 jaar en 7 maande en die derde punt is dit het in 2003 plaasgevind. As hy op 5 jaar en 7 maande skool toe is, volgens jou tabel moet dit dan in Augustus 2002 wees. (dit kan sekerlik nie moontlik wees nie). As ons die 2003 in berekening bring, was hy op 8 Jan 2003 reeds 6 jaar oud. Die “vroeg” is nou uit en laastens om by sy geboorte uit te kom moet ons 5 jaar en 7 maande agtertoe aftrek dan is hy in 1998 gebore. Maak my wisk sin of het ek die kat aan die stert beet?
@4×4: I don’t know how it works, or how it fails is possibly more like it. I understand that Home Affairs is pigs ear, but I’m willing to guess that they will get their #rse into gear when the authorities tell them to. They showed it when certain people like Beast Mtawarira needed a passport. I know it’s a different level, and Hendre is not going to balance an equity requirement, but a court order to fix it would fix it. Or am I wrong, the lawyers here can answer.
@Rugbymal: Race is an issue. Would the commentaries be as generous if it was a “dodgy” kid from the Eastern Cape.
I still say, let’s forget the birth certificate and birth registration. All those, we know from experience, are just an insider away from being “fixed”. However, their medical aid will tell us when they added the boy to medical aid, it will tell us when approval was obtained to have the Caesar. Even an emergency Caesar needs to be approved very rapidly. These are, along with newspaper birth notices, a nice easy and achievable way of providing proof of birth. They are “data” that cannot be forged or fabricated. Practical proof is the ultimate “shut up and go away”.
Me, I’m waiting for the rash of overage kids born in 2005 being passed off as born in 2008, given that HA has got no birth proof. How easy is that from the official records. My advice, look at all the top 10 year old kids now and mark the day
In response to a number of posts the following.
Bringing race into this matter is not required. We assist 70% people from rural areas that realise 2 to 3 years after their childs birth they shoud have registered with Home Affairs.
The law is very clear on the birth registration window any day within 30 daays from date of birth as per amemded birth control act.
The dept issues a letter on applicatiom that you may not.use amended birth date until approval.
If I look at this matter the process were completed in 2009.
Then there is a window period of 24 months for complaints. After that home affairs will mark the old record for deletion. This and i did check was marked for deletion in 2011.
What is a concern to me is why did no one in 2013 when he played U16 grant khomo raise this.
Why no memtion in 2014 of it.
There is people here and behind this with motived and agendas. And I will leave it at that.
Rugbymal..dalk moet jy jou praktyk besonderhede post, dink julle sal heelwat werk genereer vernaam met die nuwe wysigings ten aansien van onverkorte geboortesertifikate wat benodig word vir buitelandse reise…’n simpel druk van ‘n knoppie duur tot tussen 3 tot 6 maande om te kry vir diegene wat nog nie deur die proses is nie.
Djou…dankie vir jou eenvoudige opsomming…dink daai voorlegging sou almal gehelp en kon die aangeleentheid ter ruste gelê het nog voordat die spektakel geword het.
Gungets Tuft.., it appears that the SA School Selectors then also erred by selecting the boys that was not eligible for selection, but as far as my knowledge concern they verify all details pertaining to confirmation of age of each player, or is it waved on national level nowadays?
@Barry: To slow and heavy is way better…… at least he can become “faster and lighter”. My son u/20 at varsity. This year he was told he is very good at playing the game and everything else but …… “sorry the coach feels you don’t meet the physical requirements” therefore he stays in the group of 30 – does everything else but play the game???
@GreenBlooded: Thanks for the information I will keep it in mind. My son will not play at provicial level as I/he was told he is to slow and to heavy, however I’m yet so see a boy stronger than what he is in his age group. I’m glad that the age groups are different for him from next year, meaning that he can play in ‘open’ teams.
@Vleis: I agree with you, we have to draw the line somewhere. It used to be Jun/Jul.
A few of my thoughts on the matter:
Re Stassen specifically, he’s been cleared by the investigation, so that’s the end of the matter as far as I’m concerned. Good luck at CW!
On a general note, if one is born a week too early, tough luck – e.g. if Barry’s son plays with u15’s, he’d be a year older than the u15’s born in Oct, so they’d complain. Eventually we’d have hundreds of age groups split by month. One must draw the line somewhere and I think that 1 Jan is fine. That said, my major concern is when the boys are many years too old – e.g. an u18 playing an u14 is very dangerous and completely different to a boy a week too old. Perhaps that is why Glenwood & DHS copped so much flack.
If anyone thinks that a problem with any govt institution in SA can’t take 17 years to resolve then let me be the first to say that you are wrong based on my personal experience.
@Barry:
It goes on the year of your birth – which is the same as a 1 Jan cutoff.
Current Year (2015) subtract Birth Year (1999) = 16 means you are U16 for 2015.
You may play one age band up so an U15 boy can play in an U16 game. An U16 boy may play in an U17 game but not an U18 game. For the U19 age band, an exception is made for schoolboys so an U17, U18 and U19 boy may play in an U19 game.
Furthermore, and only in high-school, a boy may APPLY to play 2 years up. So an U16 boy can play U18 or an U14 boy can play U16 provided he completes a Schedule A form (and Schedule B for front row players) and has these APPROVED by his union. A front row player who us U17 in an U19 match must also have Schedule A and B completed and approved.
@oupadejoostin:
Well, maybe I am stupid, but the numbers work for me. If I don’t know how to calculate, I am sorry. But the underneath shows that if he was born in 1997 and went to school in 2003 and repeated grade 10, then he must be 18 and in grade 12.
Year Age Grade
08-Jan-97 0 –
08-Jan-98 1 –
08-Jan-99 2 –
08-Jan-00 3 –
08-Jan-01 4 –
08-Jan-02 5 –
08-Jan-03 6 1
08-Jan-04 7 2
08-Jan-05 8 3
08-Jan-06 9 4
08-Jan-07 10 5
08-Jan-08 11 6
08-Jan-09 12 7
08-Jan-10 13 8
08-Jan-11 14 9
08-Jan-12 15 10
08-Jan-13 16 10
08-Jan-14 17 11
08-Jan-15 18 12
@Barry: Barry – I guess the issue is – you need to draw a line in the sand somewhere – at the moment it is 1 January – a few years back it we 1 July (if memory serves me correctly).
The guys from Freakanomics did a chapter on this very issue and how kids born earlier in the year get more opportunities and generally end up with as pro sportsmen.
Why do age play such a big roll? If we say it’s important then tell me this:
If you are under 16 does that mean you are 16 already or you are 15? Reason why I’m asking: My middle son (1.86m, 124kg thighthead prop) turns 16 in November and has to play under 16 with boys that has turned 16 in January so they are effectively 10 months older than what he is, and it is unfair for me. He should be playing under 15. I know all of you are going to say that he should play under 16 cause he turns 16 during the calander year, but is it really fair? He went to school the year he was already 7 cause that was when he was ready for school.
I’m just saying…….the obsession with age drives me insane, but what else then?
@Gungets Tuft:
To be honest – I don’t know the boy at all and have no reason to want to ‘pull him down’. Call it OCD or whatever – but when I read something that doesn’t make sense I feel compelled to question it. And this is definitely very fishy.
On second thoughts – let’s pretend our fictitious Siyabonga Phayi was a EC player now at Glenwood. OMG!!!!!
@Rugbymal: Enige iemand kan verstaan as die staat die registrasie op mors. Die inligting wat bevraagteken word wat nie sin maak met die registrasie nie, is inligting wat die familie moes verskaf het. “skool begin in 2003, was 5jaar en 7 maande oud toe hy skool toe is, was toe al groot vir sy postuur, hy is n jaar terug gehou……..Is die inligting vergelyk met die werklikheid en goed bevind? Hy kon nie in 2003 begin het nie en moes jonger gewees het.
@oupadejoostin: gaan lees die ruggas.co.za berig… dis baie duidelik daar wat gebeur het… ek vermoed die ander berig het wiskundige foutjies in
@4×4: Wel iemand se wiskunde is nie op standaard nie. Die seuns wat 1997 gebore is, wat nou in matriek is, is almal Januarie 2003 skool toe op 5 jaar en paar maande afhangende van watter maand hul gebore is. (Ongeag die grootte van hul postuur). As hulle normaalweg 12 jaar op skool deur gebring het, moet hul nou in matriek wees en 18 jaar oud wees die jaar. Dan kan hul kwalifiseer vir CW. As n kind iewers n jaar moes herhaal of terug gehou was, is dit dus sy 13 de jaar op skool en moes hy dan in 2002 skool toe gegaan het. (4 jaar en n paar maande?). Is die inligting nagegaan of goedmoeds aanvaar.
As die man op 8 januarie 1997 gebore is, moet hospitaal rekords dit bewys en moes hy in 2002 skool begin het om nou in matriek te wees met n jaar wat herhaal is. Alle verslae, fotos en skool registers moet dit bevestig en dan kan almal aan gaan met hul lewens. Dit sal ook help as iemand onafhanklik die ondersoek gedoen het om enige vinger wysing en beskuldigings na die tyd te vermy. @GreenBlooded: Dit is juis die punt wat my bekommer en het ons dit nie verwag van die betrokke persone nie!!
Kan jy dit indink dat in hierdie moderne tyd so iets gebeur en nie maklik uitgesort kan word nie en persone sodanig negatief benadeel word.
@Rugbymal: Have you had any that have gone on for 17 years? It seems bizarre. The issue, I suppose, is the inconvenient timing, with the 2 weeks spanning the years, meaning a shot at Craven Week within days of his birthday. That discussion has been had here, with 2014 being a KZN case in point, 2 top College boys with birthdays in late December not eligible, a Kearsney boy 11 days younger being eligible. Add something like this, Eeisch.
GB has a point though, and perhaps that’s the cause of the distrust, if he was from a rural area of the Eastern Cape then the discussion would not be about mistakes by agents or mistakes by Home Affairs, it would be about corruption, collusion and immoral recruiters.
Gentleman being in the legal fraternity I woud like to point all to the existing and prior amended Birth Control Act and the rules as guided there.
We assist in the Pretoria region alone 200 to 300 cases of amendmemts / corrections. I can assure you this is a cumbercent process of between 3 and 7 years. We dont live in a perfect world and massive mistakes do happen daily such as the recent loss of all birth records between 2005 and 2008.
And the vultures gather to see if we cannot pull a young man down… shame on you… Hendre will make it because he works very hard! Do you find it hard to believe that “binnelandse sake” made a stuff up in this country we live in? Go read the article on http://www.ruggas.co.za
Last year we had the same thing happening at Garsies with our so-called post matrics… Every man and his dog comments without nearly having the facts… Now with this great sensational timing we are seeing the same thing… In South Africa we specialise in vulturing on rumours and speculations and we dont like the sun shining on anyone else… Why? Do anyone gain satisfaction by watching someone fail or embarrassing others? Or is it because you couldn’t achieve anything yourself an hate seeing others succeed… Stassen is an extremely talented player… lets support the boy for being just that!
Last year he didn’t make the SA schools side which was mind boggling… no sensational news was made of that… yet, let there be one little rumour and the vultures gather…
Beet, can we try a little social experiment here? Publish the same article again, but change the boy’s name to Siyabonga Phayi from Ithembelihle High School and let’s see if the comments change at all.
@boxkick: Well, at least you did the first three letters of your forum name justice with your comment.
@4×4: The same rugby union that has allowed over aged boy to play Craven Week and allow them to be picked for SA Schools?
Every proud parent announces their child’s birth in the newspaper and then keeps them in an album. Easy stuff, forget the hard stuff with Home Affairs and hospital birth records, they’re all online and have been proved fallible. Check with the medical aid, when was he added to the policy.
I’m not buying the “Agent messing up” theory, the parents still
Have to sign off the forms, how did they sign off before the boy was born, and name him, when the mom was in hospital for life threatening prem birth issues. Never been there but I can assure you that registering a child when my wife/child were possibly not going to make it, not top of my list of priorities.
I feel for the lad, life has not been kind to him and I expect he has extra motivation to do well, and I wish him well.
To attempt and change the correct date of birth during 1998, 1999, 2002, and 2005 and only manage to do so during 2015 does not surprise me at all. I believe that the Department would have requested the hospital records of the birth as confirmation of the date prior to amending same.
The rugby union investigated same and found the records to be in order and I further believe that they will not compromise their integrity by allowing a “mere” Craven Week Player if any possibility of compromising their integrity may exist.
Hendre….enjoy your Craven Week!!!!
@GreenBlooded: Let me say that I feel sorry for the young man. All this is out of his control and we can only hope that all the negative publicity does not affect his play as he is probably still mourning the death of his mother a few weeks ago. Lets give the guy some space to deal with this!
Now, it is possible that a date of birth can be cocked up, I know of at least 2 people to whom the same thing happened. Both instances happened to prem babies whose parents made use of an agent for the registration of their kids. This shows it can happen.
The people I know also tried in vane to rectify the issue. I understand one has been sorted. It is not as if the Stassen’s just ignored the situation. They tried on numerous occasions to rectify the issue.
I can give you first hand accounts of mothers that spend more than 3 weeks in hospital with pregnancy complications when they went into labour prematurely.
I do hope Hendré can put this behind him and do what he knows best, make life difficult for his opponents
@Djou: Dit maak my die joos in as so rumour op so wyse hanteer word. Die ondersoek moes alle twyfel uitgeskakel het en die ding tot n einde bring maar nou is daar meer vrae as antwoorde.
1. Hoekom na al die navrae en klagtes deur die ouers, registreer Binnelandse sake die kind op die 29ste. (Niemand kon dit verklaar nie)
2. As hy in 1997 gebore is, hoe kan hy in 2003, 5jaar en 7 maande oudwees?
3. Of hy in Desember 1996 of Januarie 1997 gebore is, hoe kan hy op 5 jaar en 7 maande in Junie of Julie skool begin?
Die vraag is of die ondersoek na behore gedoen was, nagaan van hospitaal rekords, verklarings deur hospitaal personeel ens, en of is die ouers net gekonsulteer. As die berig se data dus korrek is, maak die uitslag dus glad nie sin nie.
Young man….do NOT get distracted by HATERS. Keep chasing your dreams. This will only make you stronger, as a human being, as a player. I know. Draw strength from those near and dear to you, for in the end only they matter. They will never ever abandon you. In front of you is yet another opportunity to showcase your talent. Go and make the most of it.
@Djou: I know a little more than you think, but I am not prepared to discuss this on this forum. The boy has done nothing wrong so let’s leave it at that.
Surely, hospital records will proof beyond doubt,end of story.
I maintain my opinion. Dodgy as hell.
1. Who besides a PDI family living in a rural area cocks up their child’s birthdate by 18 days?
) years?
2. Who leaves it like that for 18 (or 19
3. Who spends 18 days in hospital for a childbirth?
Disregard the fact that he is good SBR rugby player and apply simple logic.
@umbiloburger: Did you read the article? They tried in 1998, 1999, 2002, and 2005 to correct the mistake. So they did not wait till 2011 as claimed by you. Read the article and then make informed comments.
This is no doubt a very sensitive matter but with regards to right timing, this investigation and outcome is the best thing that could have happened to Stassen in my opinion. It’s so hard to defend oneself against a rumour. You are guilty until proven innocent. Now at long last there is information on the table to support his side of the matter. Furthermore I imagine it’s possible to get caught between a rock and hard place on whether to go public in order to clear one’s name – the risk is that a small quiet matter could becoming a front page national story. From what I’ve gathered from interactions with various people around SA, just about every official in a place of importance in SBR in every corner of SA has come across this Stassen age story in the last few months while it was still a rumour. So a whole lot of people have been hearing or saying that Stassen might be over-aged right up until Nienaber’s article. At least now those same people get to see all the cards laid on the table and know that an investigation has cleared Stassen’s name. This matter was always going to surface at some stage. From the Valke point of view, it was probably necessary for them to confirm eligibility ahead of Craven Week.
@Pedantic: @Andre T:
Cant agree with you guys more. Why did this not surface in this boys U14 – U16 years especially when he played Grant Khomo in 2013. Suppose its all in the search for sensation.
Interesting view on Ruggas.co.za as below, at least they appear to have done some homework on the matter.
http://www.ruggas.co.za/?p=2846
@Andre T: Agree, timing is shocking.
All this time I actually thought he would only turn 18 in December which made his performances even more impressive.
Regardless, he has a big future in the game.
This is pathetic…….who is behind this?
Why on the eve of this young man’s biggest week of his life??????
That rather sounds a bit dodgy to me?
This sounds as dodgy as hell. Like that Westville oke with 2 birth certificates.
I am not convinced. Why wait until 2011 to change it, and why was he still entered on his Boksmart forms in U14 as the wrong date. Big question, when did he celebrate his birthdays. Too many anomalies here. He is a top player, cannot take that away from him.
Where there is smoke there is fire…if you want to believe that the mother was in labour for two weeks then believe it…while you at it get Guiness Book of Records to record it…