Francois Pienaar or his company is not giving any money away to help get students into Bishops. As a matter of fact, two members of the Bishops 1st XV have Vital Scholarships and two others were given the same in grade 8.
@jk: @jk:
1. What MAD scholarships? Not aware of any.
2. Still not sure how weare coming up with over half the first team parents not paying school fees. I have tried to disect it, but I can really only still find 4 and I never knew the one other boy (no names mentioned) was being sponsored by other parents.
3. Regards mentioning names. Quite right.
@losbal, you are absolutely right as it ain’t the boys fault, but if you go back @balikibaba was the first one who started with the names, if I recall he mentioned JP Smith (*** still there next year).
My initial point was that more than half the current first team don’t pay school fees. We have now found out that there are School bursaries, Vital bursaries, MAD bursaries ( thanks Francois) & some very generous parents.
I apologise profusely for this statement as its caused a lot of heartache & pain especially towards @baikibaba so I will rephrase it for his sake. It is of my opinion that there is a balance of probability that more than 50% of the current Bishops First team rugby players parents do not pay school fees. Would that be better Mr. @Balikibaba.
@Balikibaba: I’m not denying any of it. MHS had a number of Grey post matrics. We were know as Red White and Grey. It is what it is, funded by a particular old boy – whose son was kept out of the first side by a Grey post matric. Just nice to know you and Tiger both pay for pleasure. I’m sure Gus of your Alma Mater would lad it to that.
@Balikibaba: Poaching is a different beast. My point was exactly that. Just because a boy’s parents are not paying for his fees, we can’t assume that the school is paying, or worse even that the school approached him. I was merely highlighting that good schools can attract good organisations which are independent from the schools who are willing to pay for deserving kids to go there. I have a long list of kids’ names in different CT schools, including Bishops, who are in those schools simply because they qualified, and had funding, but the schools themselves were not involved in them arriving there.
There are also cases, as The Don has mentioned where a certain individual/family (without a hint or even ask from the school) decides to sponsor a deserving kid. Those things happen more often than we think.
@Ploegskaar: Yes – Lubelo is on a “Bursary” He has been at the school since grade 8 tho. JP Smith – yes Joel Paarwater – no, he was at Bishops from grade 0 – grade 3 then returned in grade 8. Cornel Smit has been at Bishops his whole life. Tristan Leyds has been at Bishops since grade 8 and Andre Manuel was given a Bursary in 2013.
The Bishops Scrum Half – did not get a bursary to come to Bishops, that situation is totally different, a fellow Bishops Family is paying for him to be at the school.
@JK we dont have a rectors office at Bishops. Any questions just ask and I answer….
@McCulleys Workshop: My point is you won’t find a Bishops person denying a boy is on a bursary FROM VITAL OR BISHOPS ITSELF WHICH ARE 100% RUGBY RELATED. So, why, when we say boy X is not on one do we get accused of lying when no one has the facts.
And now, I just got involved in this rediculous conversation again. lol
By the way, I met some very nice Grey College Old Boys wearing Michaelhouse blazers a few years back. Just saying…….we can all throw stones, bud.
@Balikibaba: That’s a classic sidestep, well done, almost a Houdini. Openly disclose 1, eventually confess to 3 and plead ignorance to the rest. Reminds me a Tiger Woods a little, but I think he paid…
Not to get involved in the mudslinging, but it happens a lot in Cape Town that groups offer ‘scholarships’ to kids from disadvantaged schools to attend certain ‘advantaged’ schools. I know 5 such organisations. In fear of having this ‘fact’ disputed, I will refrain from mentioning names of organisations and their preferred schools. I recently assisted a colleague in trying to get her daughter into one. I am involved in a young educational organisation that is looking into a similar model, with the view to spreading the schooling options further than just CT. I digress.
What’s my point?
Over and above academic proficiency, requirements for these ‘scholarships’ include some sort of sporting ability or rather excellence to be precise. If one such child gets it, chooses Bishops and gets in, they are technically on a ‘scholarship’ and as far as all concerned are concerned, they are fee paying scholars as Bishops is not absorbing their cost, but are actually receiving income.
We are now at number 6…or is it 7? It may well be that the entire Bishops 1st XV’s fees are not paid for by their folks, but it may still be true that Bishops/Vital only foots the bill for 3 boys.
Lubelo is on one I believe. Sorry forgot.
If Salamo is on a bursary, it’s not a rugby one as far as I am aware.
Cornel Smit has been at Bishops since u14. I will not mention schools because I respect this particuular school, but in u15 Cornel was approached by a school to come to them for rugby reasons. He was considering it and it took a visit from Nic Koster to convince him to stay at Bishops. I have this on first hand knowledge. I have no idea if Bishops have offered him a partial bursary, but to my knowledge his parents pay full fees.
I can with virtual 100% certainty tell you that Paarwater is neither on a Vital Bursary nor a Bishops rugby bursary. Perhaps Jerome is not paying 100% school fees, but any funding his kid is getting is not from Vital or Bishops rugby.
But having said all the above, it is obvious that JK and the rest of the bashers are way more knowledgable about Bishops than what I am. So I will gracefully recluse myself from this discussion now as I am getting bored of talking to a brick wall.
Oh…before I depart…….JK is right….Bishops are going to need way more than 1 bursary next year ( by the way the boy who gets it will probably be in u16 still so won’t affect first team next year). Our first team for the next few years is, in my humble opinion, going to be very weak and I think we are going to see some big scores. So be it. At least the boys will try and play running rugby and give their all. Rugby is not the be all and end all at Bishops. We have one of the proudest rugby histories in the country, but there is more to the school than winning every Saturday (geez, I wish some schools would get some perspective on that too). As you can see, I am pretty much the only Bishops person commenting here, but I bet a load are reading these comments and just laughing at how idiotic and untrue most are. Then, I bet, there are many Bishops people wondering who this Balikibaba is and why he is even bothering responding. And they are right. I should not even bother.
@Vleis: Oh yes you’re right. The 1990 team won in Newlands, how could I forget. I still have a copy of the ‘Varsity Spirit’ book with Lance Sherrel and Paul Kirsten on the cover (a ver young Herschelle Gibbs can be spotted in the background). My mistake. The 2004 team (Mpho Mbiyozo – former SA 7s captain was the flanker for UCT) was the first to win in Stellenbosch since 1976 when Nick Mallet played.
When I arrived in 2001, UCT hadn’t beaten Maties on any field since that 1990 victory. As a result, we spectators, were all about the Babylon Waters and the chicks who flashed, and not about the rugby …until 2004. It’s been pretty much an even contest since then.
I guess, since the introduction of Varsity Cup, you don’t find as many Craven Week players heading off there as you used to back then. When I played for UCT under 19B1s (equivalent to a C team) back in 2001, they had 6 players who had played CW in 2000…hence we got a proper “something” – nil hiding
I like Jerome,but he aint paying R 160 000 for his sons education. Someone please help @balikibaba. Smells like Sepp Blatter & FIFA was involved with that one.
Be warned Gimmies are waiting for u next year in Paarl. I might be mistaken but the last time Gimmies lost to a Southern Suburbs school they put on a 100 points against them the following year. Just ask Wynberg.
U might need a bit more help then “one” bursary.
@BoishaaiPa: @Playa: They used to take place on the Wednesday evening pior to inter-varsity. I was in the UCT 1st team (boat-racing not rugby) in ’88 and ’89. We won the boat-race both years but lost the rugby 15 – 13 at Newlands and then 43 – 0 (I think) at Maties.
In ’90 we won the rugby with Lance Sherrell at flyhalf and we drew in ’86. Back in those days, those were five of UCT’s best years with one draw, one win and three losses.
Mirvano, Keenan, Tristan, JP, Andrewere/are on bursary.
But what irritates the living daylights out of most Bishops people is when people ASSUME that:
Joel, Cornel etc are on bursaries when they are not. Why do people say things that are ASSUMPTIONS and not true? Just because Cornel is the best player in the team does not automatically make him a bursary boy.
So, I am sorry if I got personal, but JK sits on his high horse and makes accusations which are not true.
@Balikibaba, slowly boy slowly, truth is sometimes hard to take. Lets see how many new faces for next year’s team. Oops, careful, there’s already a queue outside the rectors office with a deposit cheque.
@Balikibaba: You need to calm down before you pop an airbag on your Range Rover. We all know it is preposterous to suggest that all of JP Smith, Joel Paarwater, Cornel Smit, Tristan Leyds and Andre Manuel are on bursaries, and that Mirvano sa Silva and Keenan Jacobs were on bursaries last year as well. Damn and blast some people, Baliki, the absolute cheek of some commoners, best you go groom your horses to relax
@jk: And you are in such a dream land! Do you thisnk a person spends his money to send his kid to Bishops just to play rugby????? NO! He sends him there for a private school eductaion just like he would for ST Johns or Hilton eg. Then if the kid ends up playing first team……GREAT!
@Balikibaba. It started with one bursary & u mentioned the boys name which became 2 and now as per your last post is 3. Then it’s the school bursaries vs the Vital bursaries. So my assumption that half the first side is on a bursary is not far off the mark. R u saying that Paarwater is a full fee paying student. Like I mentioned earlier the one definite fact is that a parent is not going to pay up to 7 times what he currently pays at a conventional school so that his son can play for your first side. Now that’s a fact in the real world.
@Playa: Die Stal use to be in a sidestreet where the Eikestad Mall is now…The street was a one-way up from where the Dros is now through to the parking lot in Andringa street..it is not a street anymore but a throughway for walking…The Stal was situated there..First heard Wendy Oldfield with Sweatband performing there many many moons ago!
@BoishaaiPa: The Pig n Whistle (Pig n Swizzle in my time) is still around. It was our watering hole in my day…all money sent by daddy dearest for ‘printing’ and ‘shuttle rides to campus’ ended up in me and my mates being labelled shareholders of the place – funny enough I never received a single dividend My memory is very fuzzy when it comes to time spent in Stellies, but I do recall a certain spot called Die Stal in 2004, after we’d beaten Maties for the first time since Nick Mallet played for Ikeys.Don’t ask me where it was, I may even have the name wrong.I just remember a certain gentleman asking us nicely ‘for our safety’ to leave because the Ikey songs we were singing were not sitting well with the regulars. We were given a standing ovation on our way out…come to think of I, I think they were just happy we were leaving
@Vleis: @Playa: It was called the “Boatraces” and in my time it was held in “Die Stal” and The Pig n Whistle…in 1985 the actual winners was a female team from Ikeys!..OK..they did have 340 ml glasses compared to our 500ml, but they were still damn quick!
@Vleis: LOL! No, that is no more. Stopped when all the games started being played on the same day as the 1st XV. It became unfair competition as our biggest drinkers were the rugby players who’d still have to play the next day, while the Maties down down team had the Vrystaat has-beens, who only had time for a lecture or two in between their drinking sessions
“Schools will always say that these amazing players dad’s changed jobs etc but bottom line they were bought. Wish we could go back to when fair was fair. Example SACS U 14, U 15, U16 A sides all beat Paarl Gym the other day. Great this means that in a year or 2 SACS will dominate Gym at 1st team level. Sorry not going to happen. Why, cos Gym ain’t going to have the same players. SACS will. SACS offer bursaries from junior school to high school where Gimmies offer the bursaries from Grade 11. Kids change, so superstars at junior school don’t necessarily mean great 1st team players. Gym have worked the system out. ”
@JK, Gym’s First XV beat SACS quite convincingly. Please name any player(s) in the team that did not join Paarl Gym in grade 8. You will not find any. IMO a lot of credit should go to the coaching staff (as well as the dedication of the players).
Perhaps you should look at depth as well. The SACS under 14A team beat Paarl Gym by one point BUT the B and C sides were beaten 0 – 59 and 0 – 64 respectively. You can’t build teams on the strength of 15 individuals only.
@balikibaba In 2012 Bishops got the services of two Grey PE players (Rohan Knoetze and Luke Hepburn) through that whole bursary thing. They also got one boy from Pretoria Boys (Sam Mitchell) who was at Bishops junior school and apparently went back on that bursary(not too sure about that). So saying it’s limited to one player is marginal. Are those the facts you wanted? Rohan went back to Grey after a few weeks because he sustained a seizure and is ruled out of playing rugby while Luke and Sam stayed and matriculated there.
@Toffee: I think a few boys may have been approached on that basis for a VITAL scholarship. But very quickly, I believe, Bishops made a decision not to actively approach boys from other traditional rugby schools. You will see that the 3 boys playing first team this year on bursary all come from schools who would not feature in the Top 50 or even to 100. This helps these talented boys compete at top level schoolboy rugby.
I have no stone to grind with Bishops and I do not particularly think that they are worse than many others when it comes to poaching. I know that many boys do go to Bishops of their own accord – I think Francois Louw and Rob Fleck would be good examples of people who moved on that basis. However it is a fact that Bishops have approached players in the past. My sons close friend ( a first team flyhalf at the time and in grade 11) was approached by Bishops to move and do Matric and Post Matric and play rugby – if I remember correctly on a half bursary. The approach was done very subtly and he was asked to apply. I also know an under 14 boy that was approached a few years back in a similar manner. It happens but seems to have stopped over the past few years, which I think is a good thing, rather develop your own talent. I have seen some Winelands schools taking talent from Peninsula Schools in the past. I am not happy to name names as it is not my place to do so. Bishops do have a problem this year with the junior teams doing particularly badly. With the excellent coaching structures at Bishops one usually finds they develop well and are more competitive at under 16 and 19. However this year the under 16’s are struggling and lost by 40+ points to Wynberg last week.
Funny how all these players magically approach Bishops. You must have a queue of excellent rugby playing scholars bashing the school door down with their dad’s chequebook in tow.
All of a sudden these parents are prepared to pay six to seven times more for their childs education compared to the year before just so that they can play for the first team sometimes second team. Ja right, you’ve got to be kidding that’s not the real world.
I just feel sorry for the 2nd team parents & kids who won’t experience the honour of representing there first team due to imports purely for the sake of making there side competitive.
I’m leaving it there.
@Roger: No dude, I’m all in good jest. I think this sort of bursary openess is awesome. Well done Bishops. I wish ALL schools could be this open about bursaries given out, including Glenwood….all that we all want is openess and transparency….
@jk: This is what I don’t understand. A person gets on to this forum gets on their high horse and shouts their mouth off. In your case you bring up 3 names and accuse Bishops of POACHING all THREE. Someone with the FACTS then comes and corrects you and then you still want to be on your high horse. Why not just say, “Oops, sorry, never knew those FACTS. “?
FACTS:
NOT ONE OF THOSE 3 WERE APPROACHED BY BISHOPS
NOT ONE OF THOSE 3 WAS ON A BURSARY
ALL 3 PAID SCHOOL FEES
ONE OF THEM ACTUALLY PALYED SECOND TEAM MORE THAN HE DID FIRST TEAM SO WHY WOULD BISHOPS EVER HAVE APROACHED HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE?
ALL 3 LOVED THEIR TIME AT BISHOPS AND BENEFITED FROM THE SCHOOLING.
@jk: JK, I am afraid you have your facts incredibly wrong. INCREDIBLY. I was at school with all the above, so allow me to set them straight.
Paul (Porkie) Kirsten came to Bishops on his won accord. He was NOT on a bursary and paid fully for his school fees. If no one paid for him and he was not on a bursary I am not sure how he could have been poached as you put it. This is no different to John Sparks, who was at Bishops till Std 8 and then went across to Rondebosch because of his own reasons and ended up playing SA schools. No one accused Bosch of poaching him.
Adrian Holdstock came to do Post Matric. He was primarily a cricketer and did not even play a full season first team rugby, playing a number of games for seconds as well. He, too, was not on a bursary, so not sure how Bishops could have poached him if no one was paying for him.
Pietie LOUBSER (NOT Louw as you call him) sent in a submission form to do Post Matric. He was denied at first I believe, but was then accepted when then Headmaster John Peak found out he had played SA schools the year before. So, no poaching with him, but perhaps his rugby pedigree got him accepted. The school certainly never approached him and he also was not on a bursary and paid for his year in PM.
In the 1980’s and 1990’s the ONLY boy to get a sports bursary (Bishops never had Sports bursaries back then) was Herschel Gibbs. And he came from Marist Brothers. Hardly a rugby school.
Trust me (and ask BoishaaiPa who is a friend of mine and knows me well) you do not want to get into factual arguments with me about Bishops rugby, because you have theories and opinions while I have facts.
Proud OD, careful what u say about ‘have never poached from other traditional schools.’ You obviously haven’t been around too long. Remember Paul Kirsten – Rondebosch, Adrian Holdstock – Wynberg, Pieter Louw – Paarl Boys, guys that I played with than against. The track record speaks for itself. The only reason Bishops don’t do it anymore is that an ultimatum was given to them from the schools that if they keep buying they were going to put a stop to playing against them. Take blinkers off please, u want the truth, u can’t handle the truth.
Balikibaba You are spot on @JK – I am not sure who you are and who you been speaking to, but the Coach at the time was not fired, he is still an active member of the staff, he was asked to step down from the head coach position, not based on results but more to do with his conduct.
Actually there only 2 boys on bursaries in the side, on is in the forwards as Balikibaba mentioned the other is in the backline.
Bishops has never and will never poach any student from one of the other traditional boys schools. The Lock that we do have arrived on his own accord.
@knowthegame: Waar droom ek ou grote? Het ek iets gesê van werf of nie werf nie? Ek praat van skoolgeld wat gekoppel is aan rugby resultate. Fokus asb.
@akw: Actually, yes, one. R 160 000 a year over 3 years is a lot of money and there is budget. does not take a rocket scientest.@jk: Not sure you have your facts right. JP Smith is only bursary boy in pack. WHo else can you mention?
@ProudOD. I think not. There is more than that in the forward pack alone. You talk about that team a few years back. The coach got fired, Mike Bayly jumped in & the very next year there were 6 new faces in the side. It’s all irrelevant as this is not a name & shame blog. Facts are there for everyone to see. If they not there for free then some union/organisation is paying for them to be there. We all know that.Its just getting harder to buy as they’ve been warned about poaching from the other big 3 Southern Suburb schools.
For the uninformed…this is not something new..Bishops had this Vital scholarship for years and some very good individuals have benefitted from it previously, some in rugby, some academically. It creates an opportunity for someone who would otherwise not be able to make use of the excellence that Bishops offer in academics, sports and other areas. This is an open invitation to anyone to apply, not some underhanded shady scheme focused on a specific player to lure him away from another school. It’s a simple advert to join Bishops with rugby as the focus, nothing wrong with this in my opinion.
@JK ? Can not afford to have a weak 1st XV, well in 2012 we did have a weak first XV, could not buy a win, although we did beat Bosch. Our Hockey side that year were unbeaten and won the domestic trophy also, so rugby while it is important in school life, its only one aspect of it.
Its is an untruth that, more than half the Bishops 1st XV are non paying school members, In the current team only two members of the team are non paying, all the rest pay fully. Please dont shout before you know facts JK.
@PaulRoosPa: stop om te droom-tye het verander-almal werf-ek persoonlik dink as n kind op die vlak begin goed vertoon dan het hy n toekoms.So hulle koop op die regte tyd.Sien soveel skole way laerskool Proviniale kinders werf en dan in graad 8/9 speel hulle B span.Meeste goeie spelers ontwikkel laat.Baie min “brekers” in graad 7 is nog steeds die brekers in graad 12
I think that we all being ignorant here. It is not only a Bishops thing it happens everywhere. All of a sudden some new faces appear from nowhere. Schools will always say that these amazing players dad’s changed jobs etc but bottom line they were bought. Wish we could go back to when fair was fair. Example SACS U 14, U 15, U16 A sides all beat Paarl Gym the other day. Great this means that in a year or 2 SACS will dominate Gym at 1st team level. Sorry not going to happen. Why, cos Gym ain’t going to have the same players. SACS will. SACS offer bursaries from junior school to high school where Gimmies offer the bursaries from Grade 11. Kids change, so superstars at junior school don’t necessarily mean great 1st team players. Gym have worked the system out.
Going back to Bishops, Vital pumped in big money, like any decent sponsor they need results, unfortunately, the average kid who attends Bishops is not going g to give them the results as is witnessed by the age group results. Not Bishops bashing but reality. Yes, marketing is extremely important.
@Balikibaba: Does Bishops fall under the “Traditional Rugby Schools grouping”? Reason for asking, is that the Traditional Rugby Schools have always said that they DO NOT offer scholarships. Oh boy, I hope they are seen as something else, otherwise this might open a can of worms regarding the other so called Traditional Rugby schools…
@jk: What? You pay school fees based on rugby performance and not the quality of academics and facilities? This statement of yours discredited everything else you tried to say “They cannot afford to have a weak first side as it will affect the image of the school as they have to justify the exorbitant school fees.”
It happens every year, it started in the early 80’s with post matric, when boys that played SA schools the year before for a rival Afrikaans school turned out for them. This was stopped when the rival schools said enough is enough & Craven week was changed to U18. They now had to find other ways to attract boys. If you look at there U 14, U 15 & U16 A sides they are poor. Vital have pumped big money into Bishops rugby & require results. They cannot afford to have a weak first side as it will affect the image of the school as they have to justify the exorbitant school fees. Fact for the past year or so more than half of the Bishops First side don’t pay school fees.
Unfortunately rugby is becoming professional & the winelands schools are not far behind. Its no wonder Gimmies organise one of the biggest U16 tournaments in the country. Scouting is happening big time.
Wow, you, jk ARE a prize tWat.
Francois Pienaar or his company is not giving any money away to help get students into Bishops. As a matter of fact, two members of the Bishops 1st XV have Vital Scholarships and two others were given the same in grade 8.
Happy now.
@jk: @jk:
1. What MAD scholarships? Not aware of any.
2. Still not sure how weare coming up with over half the first team parents not paying school fees. I have tried to disect it, but I can really only still find 4 and I never knew the one other boy (no names mentioned) was being sponsored by other parents.
3. Regards mentioning names. Quite right.
@losbal, you are absolutely right as it ain’t the boys fault, but if you go back @balikibaba was the first one who started with the names, if I recall he mentioned JP Smith (*** still there next year).
My initial point was that more than half the current first team don’t pay school fees. We have now found out that there are School bursaries, Vital bursaries, MAD bursaries ( thanks Francois) & some very generous parents.
I apologise profusely for this statement as its caused a lot of heartache & pain especially towards @baikibaba so I will rephrase it for his sake. It is of my opinion that there is a balance of probability that more than 50% of the current Bishops First team rugby players parents do not pay school fees. Would that be better Mr. @Balikibaba.
@McCulleys Workshop: im sure Gus of your alma mater would admit to that.
@Balikibaba: I’m not denying any of it. MHS had a number of Grey post matrics. We were know as Red White and Grey. It is what it is, funded by a particular old boy – whose son was kept out of the first side by a Grey post matric. Just nice to know you and Tiger both pay for pleasure. I’m sure Gus of your Alma Mater would lad it to that.
Gentlemen, although I support healthy debate, I cannot support the naming of specific children or families.
I think we can do better.
@Balikibaba: Poaching is a different beast. My point was exactly that. Just because a boy’s parents are not paying for his fees, we can’t assume that the school is paying, or worse even that the school approached him. I was merely highlighting that good schools can attract good organisations which are independent from the schools who are willing to pay for deserving kids to go there. I have a long list of kids’ names in different CT schools, including Bishops, who are in those schools simply because they qualified, and had funding, but the schools themselves were not involved in them arriving there.
There are also cases, as The Don has mentioned where a certain individual/family (without a hint or even ask from the school) decides to sponsor a deserving kid. Those things happen more often than we think.
@Ploegskaar: Yes – Lubelo is on a “Bursary” He has been at the school since grade 8 tho. JP Smith – yes Joel Paarwater – no, he was at Bishops from grade 0 – grade 3 then returned in grade 8. Cornel Smit has been at Bishops his whole life. Tristan Leyds has been at Bishops since grade 8 and Andre Manuel was given a Bursary in 2013.
The Bishops Scrum Half – did not get a bursary to come to Bishops, that situation is totally different, a fellow Bishops Family is paying for him to be at the school.
@JK we dont have a rectors office at Bishops. Any questions just ask and I answer….
So
@McCulleys Workshop: My point is you won’t find a Bishops person denying a boy is on a bursary FROM VITAL OR BISHOPS ITSELF WHICH ARE 100% RUGBY RELATED. So, why, when we say boy X is not on one do we get accused of lying when no one has the facts.
And now, I just got involved in this rediculous conversation again. lol
By the way, I met some very nice Grey College Old Boys wearing Michaelhouse blazers a few years back. Just saying…….we can all throw stones, bud.
@Playa: Does it matter who pays? Are the kids benefitting? Were they poached? Remember, certain people started using the poach word on here.
@McCulleys Workshop: I wasn’t in the army, but I had 5 years of school cadets
@Balikibaba: That’s a classic sidestep, well done, almost a Houdini. Openly disclose 1, eventually confess to 3 and plead ignorance to the rest. Reminds me a Tiger Woods a little, but I think he paid…
@Playa: “As you were” hahaha
Not to get involved in the mudslinging, but it happens a lot in Cape Town that groups offer ‘scholarships’ to kids from disadvantaged schools to attend certain ‘advantaged’ schools. I know 5 such organisations. In fear of having this ‘fact’ disputed, I will refrain from mentioning names of organisations and their preferred schools. I recently assisted a colleague in trying to get her daughter into one. I am involved in a young educational organisation that is looking into a similar model, with the view to spreading the schooling options further than just CT. I digress.
What’s my point?
Over and above academic proficiency, requirements for these ‘scholarships’ include some sort of sporting ability or rather excellence to be precise. If one such child gets it, chooses Bishops and gets in, they are technically on a ‘scholarship’ and as far as all concerned are concerned, they are fee paying scholars as Bishops is not absorbing their cost, but are actually receiving income.
We are now at number 6…or is it 7? It may well be that the entire Bishops 1st XV’s fees are not paid for by their folks, but it may still be true that Bishops/Vital only foots the bill for 3 boys.
As you were.
Up to six. That line looks very promising.
Mr Baba, you need to relax. 8)
@Balikibaba, last one. Now that François Pienaar son is there how many boys will come from the MAD foundation.
@Ploegskaar: @Ploegskaar:
Lubelo is on one I believe. Sorry forgot.
If Salamo is on a bursary, it’s not a rugby one as far as I am aware.
Cornel Smit has been at Bishops since u14. I will not mention schools because I respect this particuular school, but in u15 Cornel was approached by a school to come to them for rugby reasons. He was considering it and it took a visit from Nic Koster to convince him to stay at Bishops. I have this on first hand knowledge. I have no idea if Bishops have offered him a partial bursary, but to my knowledge his parents pay full fees.
I can with virtual 100% certainty tell you that Paarwater is neither on a Vital Bursary nor a Bishops rugby bursary. Perhaps Jerome is not paying 100% school fees, but any funding his kid is getting is not from Vital or Bishops rugby.
But having said all the above, it is obvious that JK and the rest of the bashers are way more knowledgable about Bishops than what I am. So I will gracefully recluse myself from this discussion now as I am getting bored of talking to a brick wall.
Oh…before I depart…….JK is right….Bishops are going to need way more than 1 bursary next year ( by the way the boy who gets it will probably be in u16 still so won’t affect first team next year). Our first team for the next few years is, in my humble opinion, going to be very weak and I think we are going to see some big scores. So be it. At least the boys will try and play running rugby and give their all. Rugby is not the be all and end all at Bishops. We have one of the proudest rugby histories in the country, but there is more to the school than winning every Saturday (geez, I wish some schools would get some perspective on that too). As you can see, I am pretty much the only Bishops person commenting here, but I bet a load are reading these comments and just laughing at how idiotic and untrue most are. Then, I bet, there are many Bishops people wondering who this Balikibaba is and why he is even bothering responding. And they are right. I should not even bother.
So, bash away, JK. Knock yourself out, bud!
Next over/under, how many types of bursaries are there?
@Balikibaba: And just to clear another possible misconception in case you get hassled, Salomo is not on this bursary, he is on another type of bursary
@Vleis: Oh yes you’re right. The 1990 team won in Newlands, how could I forget. I still have a copy of the ‘Varsity Spirit’ book with Lance Sherrel and Paul Kirsten on the cover (a ver young Herschelle Gibbs can be spotted in the background). My mistake. The 2004 team (Mpho Mbiyozo – former SA 7s captain was the flanker for UCT) was the first to win in Stellenbosch since 1976 when Nick Mallet played.
When I arrived in 2001, UCT hadn’t beaten Maties on any field since that 1990 victory. As a result, we spectators, were all about the Babylon Waters and the chicks who flashed, and not about the rugby
…until 2004. It’s been pretty much an even contest since then.
I guess, since the introduction of Varsity Cup, you don’t find as many Craven Week players heading off there as you used to back then. When I played for UCT under 19B1s (equivalent to a C team) back in 2001, they had 6 players who had played CW in 2000…hence we got a proper “something” – nil hiding
@CharlesZA: I believe the line is at 7.
@akw: I also saw the 1-2-5 happening in the time this blog grew. What is the bookmakers line set at for the over/under?
I like Jerome,but he aint paying R 160 000 for his sons education. Someone please help @balikibaba. Smells like Sepp Blatter & FIFA was involved with that one.
Be warned Gimmies are waiting for u next year in Paarl. I might be mistaken but the last time Gimmies lost to a Southern Suburbs school they put on a 100 points against them the following year. Just ask Wynberg.
U might need a bit more help then “one” bursary.
These bursary boys in the Bishop’s 1st team is like Mr Smith in the Matrix.
First there was one, then 2, then 5.
Give this thread another few days and we might be into double digits.
@beet: Beet, I agree. I just have a inordinant dislike of people who talk sh1t though. LOL
As they say…there is nothing more dangerous (or irritating) than an opinionated person who has zero clue about the subject at hand.
Not pointing that statement at anyone in particular. Just making a general statement.
@Balikibaba: Is Lubelo Scott on a bursary, just in case someone makes that assumption?
@BoishaaiPa: @Playa: They used to take place on the Wednesday evening pior to inter-varsity. I was in the UCT 1st team (boat-racing not rugby) in ’88 and ’89. We won the boat-race both years but lost the rugby 15 – 13 at Newlands and then 43 – 0 (I think) at Maties.
In ’90 we won the rugby with Lance Sherrell at flyhalf and we drew in ’86. Back in those days, those were five of UCT’s best years with one draw, one win and three losses.
@jk: WHy don’t you take a camera and go and film that queue.
@Ploegskaar: See, this is the issue guys
No one from Bishops disputes that:
Mirvano, Keenan, Tristan, JP, Andrewere/are on bursary.
But what irritates the living daylights out of most Bishops people is when people ASSUME that:
Joel, Cornel etc are on bursaries when they are not. Why do people say things that are ASSUMPTIONS and not true? Just because Cornel is the best player in the team does not automatically make him a bursary boy.
So, I am sorry if I got personal, but JK sits on his high horse and makes accusations which are not true.
@Balikibaba, slowly boy slowly, truth is sometimes hard to take. Lets see how many new faces for next year’s team. Oops, careful, there’s already a queue outside the rectors office with a deposit cheque.
@Balikibaba: Ja Bali. It’s better to leave out the personal insults and just make your points.
@Balikibaba: You need to calm down before you pop an airbag on your Range Rover. We all know it is preposterous to suggest that all of JP Smith, Joel Paarwater, Cornel Smit, Tristan Leyds and Andre Manuel are on bursaries, and that Mirvano sa Silva and Keenan Jacobs were on bursaries last year as well. Damn and blast some people, Baliki, the absolute cheek of some commoners, best you go groom your horses to relax
@jk: And you are in such a dream land! Do you thisnk a person spends his money to send his kid to Bishops just to play rugby????? NO! He sends him there for a private school eductaion just like he would for ST Johns or Hilton eg. Then if the kid ends up playing first team……GREAT!
Crikey,,,,you need a reality check, man!
@jk:
FACT:
JP Smit
Tristan Leyds
Andre Manuel
Read above. I NEVER SAID ONE BURSARY BOY. You are smoking pot again. Please copy and paste if you can find evidence of that.
And, no, Paarwater is NOT on a bursary. Once again you are making ASSUMPTIONS and stating tehm as fact.
I have no idea what school you went to but they should have taught you maths. 3 out of 15 is 1/5th and not half.
Crikey…were you born a twat or did life just make you one?
@Queenian:
@Playa: Ye know what you mean I was the greatest 4th team player ever just missed Craven Week.
@Balikibaba. It started with one bursary & u mentioned the boys name which became 2 and now as per your last post is 3. Then it’s the school bursaries vs the Vital bursaries. So my assumption that half the first side is on a bursary is not far off the mark. R u saying that Paarwater is a full fee paying student. Like I mentioned earlier the one definite fact is that a parent is not going to pay up to 7 times what he currently pays at a conventional school so that his son can play for your first side. Now that’s a fact in the real world.
@Queenian: He’ll hopefully get his grandfather’s rugby gene…if he gets mine, the moderators will just laugh off the application
@Playa: You must apply for this scholarship for your sons.
@BoishaaiPa: Geez must have been something else then
I need to call a friend to help me remember
@Playa: Die Stal use to be in a sidestreet where the Eikestad Mall is now…The street was a one-way up from where the Dros is now through to the parking lot in Andringa street..it is not a street anymore but a throughway for walking…The Stal was situated there..First heard Wendy Oldfield with Sweatband performing there many many moons ago!
@BoishaaiPa: The Pig n Whistle (Pig n Swizzle in my time) is still around. It was our watering hole in my day…all money sent by daddy dearest for ‘printing’ and ‘shuttle rides to campus’ ended up in me and my mates being labelled shareholders of the place – funny enough I never received a single dividend
My memory is very fuzzy when it comes to time spent in Stellies, but I do recall a certain spot called Die Stal in 2004, after we’d beaten Maties for the first time since Nick Mallet played for Ikeys.Don’t ask me where it was, I may even have the name wrong.I just remember a certain gentleman asking us nicely ‘for our safety’ to leave because the Ikey songs we were singing were not sitting well with the regulars. We were given a standing ovation on our way out…come to think of I, I think they were just happy we were leaving 
@Vleis: @Playa: It was called the “Boatraces” and in my time it was held in “Die Stal” and The Pig n Whistle…in 1985 the actual winners was a female team from Ikeys!..OK..they did have 340 ml glasses compared to our 500ml, but they were still damn quick!
@Vleis: LOL! No, that is no more. Stopped when all the games started being played on the same day as the 1st XV. It became unfair competition as our biggest drinkers were the rugby players who’d still have to play the next day, while the Maties down down team had the Vrystaat has-beens, who only had time for a lecture or two in between their drinking sessions
@Playa: Does UCT still have a big inter-varsity down down evening v Maties prior to the inter-varsity rugby?
@Balikibaba: The Usain Bolt of down downs!
@Grasshopper: lol..nope, but I know the big guy well.
@jk: I refer to your comments in brackets:
“Schools will always say that these amazing players dad’s changed jobs etc but bottom line they were bought. Wish we could go back to when fair was fair. Example SACS U 14, U 15, U16 A sides all beat Paarl Gym the other day. Great this means that in a year or 2 SACS will dominate Gym at 1st team level. Sorry not going to happen. Why, cos Gym ain’t going to have the same players. SACS will. SACS offer bursaries from junior school to high school where Gimmies offer the bursaries from Grade 11. Kids change, so superstars at junior school don’t necessarily mean great 1st team players. Gym have worked the system out. ”
@JK, Gym’s First XV beat SACS quite convincingly. Please name any player(s) in the team that did not join Paarl Gym in grade 8. You will not find any. IMO a lot of credit should go to the coaching staff (as well as the dedication of the players).
Perhaps you should look at depth as well. The SACS under 14A team beat Paarl Gym by one point BUT the B and C sides were beaten 0 – 59 and 0 – 64 respectively. You can’t build teams on the strength of 15 individuals only.
@Balikibaba: are you Tank by any chance?
@Balikibaba
Facts ?
In 2012 Bishops took two Grey PE boys on that bursary and took one PBHS (allegedly) on that bursary.
The one Grey PE boy returned to Grey a few weeks later because he sustained a seizure playing 16A / Stayers team.
The other two matriculated at Bishops.
So its definitely not limited to one boy and thats a …. wait for it… FACT.
2012
Rohan Knoetze and Luke Hepburn – Grey PE
Sam Mitchell – Pta BHS (Was at Bishops junior school, left to Boys High and returned on that bursary)
Rohan returned to Grey a few weeks after sustaining a seizure whilst Luke and Sam matriculated there.
FACT !
@balikibaba In 2012 Bishops got the services of two Grey PE players (Rohan Knoetze and Luke Hepburn) through that whole bursary thing. They also got one boy from Pretoria Boys (Sam Mitchell) who was at Bishops junior school and apparently went back on that bursary(not too sure about that). So saying it’s limited to one player is marginal. Are those the facts you wanted? Rohan went back to Grey after a few weeks because he sustained a seizure and is ruled out of playing rugby while Luke and Sam stayed and matriculated there.
@Toffee: I think a few boys may have been approached on that basis for a VITAL scholarship. But very quickly, I believe, Bishops made a decision not to actively approach boys from other traditional rugby schools. You will see that the 3 boys playing first team this year on bursary all come from schools who would not feature in the Top 50 or even to 100. This helps these talented boys compete at top level schoolboy rugby.
@Balikibaba
I have no stone to grind with Bishops and I do not particularly think that they are worse than many others when it comes to poaching. I know that many boys do go to Bishops of their own accord – I think Francois Louw and Rob Fleck would be good examples of people who moved on that basis. However it is a fact that Bishops have approached players in the past. My sons close friend ( a first team flyhalf at the time and in grade 11) was approached by Bishops to move and do Matric and Post Matric and play rugby – if I remember correctly on a half bursary. The approach was done very subtly and he was asked to apply. I also know an under 14 boy that was approached a few years back in a similar manner. It happens but seems to have stopped over the past few years, which I think is a good thing, rather develop your own talent. I have seen some Winelands schools taking talent from Peninsula Schools in the past. I am not happy to name names as it is not my place to do so. Bishops do have a problem this year with the junior teams doing particularly badly. With the excellent coaching structures at Bishops one usually finds they develop well and are more competitive at under 16 and 19. However this year the under 16’s are struggling and lost by 40+ points to Wynberg last week.
@jk: Whatever, bud. Another EXPERT with FACTS. Are you saying you have FACTS that those 3 were on a bursary? YAAAAAAAAAAWN!
@jk: Sunshine – if two of the named four arrived to do a post matric, where were they poached from, Ikeys??
Funny how all these players magically approach Bishops. You must have a queue of excellent rugby playing scholars bashing the school door down with their dad’s chequebook in tow.
All of a sudden these parents are prepared to pay six to seven times more for their childs education compared to the year before just so that they can play for the first team sometimes second team. Ja right, you’ve got to be kidding that’s not the real world.
I just feel sorry for the 2nd team parents & kids who won’t experience the honour of representing there first team due to imports purely for the sake of making there side competitive.
I’m leaving it there.
@knowthegame: Smaak my jy probeer vir ons oortuig ‘n swembad is ‘n brandblusser?
@Speartackle: lol…we are number 10 on Boisha rankings so I am sure we will get a mention.
Radio Ruggas tonight at 17h30
Boishaaipa on the Top 20 and then the panel do a top 10 on CURRENT form
And sorry Bali……..no Bishops in there but Andre T will surely mention the ONE candidate bursary
@Grasshopper: And if the bursaries could be limited to Gr 7 and maybe 8 applicants for the following year that would be perfect.
@Roger: No dude, I’m all in good jest. I think this sort of bursary openess is awesome. Well done Bishops. I wish ALL schools could be this open about bursaries given out, including Glenwood….all that we all want is openess and transparency….
@Balikibaba: Proof? You must be using the Nkandla burden of proof measure.
I do not wish to impugn or doubt the veracity of your hearsay evidence, but I will still smell the mouchard without any other proof.
@Roger: lol….blows me away. I call it the chip syndrome.
looks like @jk: just got schooled (if you ‘scuse the pun)
He and Hopper should get together
@akw: I thought you were going to give it to me after it was proved that there was only 1 bursary going. lol
@tandemfitarborsurculus: LOL……Bishops het Eerste Taal AFrikaans klasse.
@PaulRoosPa: houkus poukus bly gefokus-jy droom oubaas-ek is in die aand gebore en dit was nie gisteraand nie
Kan hy maar in Afrikaans onderrig word of ten minste n tolk kry ?
@jk: This is what I don’t understand. A person gets on to this forum gets on their high horse and shouts their mouth off. In your case you bring up 3 names and accuse Bishops of POACHING all THREE. Someone with the FACTS then comes and corrects you and then you still want to be on your high horse. Why not just say, “Oops, sorry, never knew those FACTS. “?
FACTS:
NOT ONE OF THOSE 3 WERE APPROACHED BY BISHOPS
NOT ONE OF THOSE 3 WAS ON A BURSARY
ALL 3 PAID SCHOOL FEES
ONE OF THEM ACTUALLY PALYED SECOND TEAM MORE THAN HE DID FIRST TEAM SO WHY WOULD BISHOPS EVER HAVE APROACHED HIM IN THE FIRST PLACE?
ALL 3 LOVED THEIR TIME AT BISHOPS AND BENEFITED FROM THE SCHOOLING.
@Balikibaba: The tower is on the Champ de Mars. I am open to offers.
@jk: “In my book where there’s smoke there’s fire.”
In my book unless you have FACTS rather don’t make accusations.
Please mention the other names so that you give us the opportunity to respond with facts. I think that is a fair request. No?
There are plenty of other names & I suppose there’ll be reasons for them attending as well. In my book where there’s smoke there’s fire.
@jk: JK, I am afraid you have your facts incredibly wrong. INCREDIBLY. I was at school with all the above, so allow me to set them straight.
Paul (Porkie) Kirsten came to Bishops on his won accord. He was NOT on a bursary and paid fully for his school fees. If no one paid for him and he was not on a bursary I am not sure how he could have been poached as you put it. This is no different to John Sparks, who was at Bishops till Std 8 and then went across to Rondebosch because of his own reasons and ended up playing SA schools. No one accused Bosch of poaching him.
Adrian Holdstock came to do Post Matric. He was primarily a cricketer and did not even play a full season first team rugby, playing a number of games for seconds as well. He, too, was not on a bursary, so not sure how Bishops could have poached him if no one was paying for him.
Pietie LOUBSER (NOT Louw as you call him) sent in a submission form to do Post Matric. He was denied at first I believe, but was then accepted when then Headmaster John Peak found out he had played SA schools the year before. So, no poaching with him, but perhaps his rugby pedigree got him accepted. The school certainly never approached him and he also was not on a bursary and paid for his year in PM.
In the 1980’s and 1990’s the ONLY boy to get a sports bursary (Bishops never had Sports bursaries back then) was Herschel Gibbs. And he came from Marist Brothers. Hardly a rugby school.
Trust me (and ask BoishaaiPa who is a friend of mine and knows me well) you do not want to get into factual arguments with me about Bishops rugby, because you have theories and opinions while I have facts.
Proud OD, careful what u say about ‘have never poached from other traditional schools.’ You obviously haven’t been around too long. Remember Paul Kirsten – Rondebosch, Adrian Holdstock – Wynberg, Pieter Louw – Paarl Boys, guys that I played with than against. The track record speaks for itself. The only reason Bishops don’t do it anymore is that an ultimatum was given to them from the schools that if they keep buying they were going to put a stop to playing against them. Take blinkers off please, u want the truth, u can’t handle the truth.
Great bursary at a great institution.
Fantastic privilege and opportunity for the successful candidate.
Balikibaba You are spot on
@JK – I am not sure who you are and who you been speaking to, but the Coach at the time was not fired, he is still an active member of the staff, he was asked to step down from the head coach position, not based on results but more to do with his conduct.
Actually there only 2 boys on bursaries in the side, on is in the forwards as Balikibaba mentioned the other is in the backline.
Bishops has never and will never poach any student from one of the other traditional boys schools. The Lock that we do have arrived on his own accord.
@knowthegame: Waar droom ek ou grote? Het ek iets gesê van werf of nie werf nie? Ek praat van skoolgeld wat gekoppel is aan rugby resultate. Fokus asb.
@BoishaaiPa: That is a very fair statement. Thanks for making it so clear.
@akw: Actually, yes, one. R 160 000 a year over 3 years is a lot of money and there is budget. does not take a rocket scientest.@jk: Not sure you have your facts right. JP Smith is only bursary boy in pack. WHo else can you mention?
@akw: Actually, yes, one. R 160 000 a year over 3 years is a lot of money and there is budget. does not take a rocket scientest.
@BoishaaiPa: Agree
@ProudOD. I think not. There is more than that in the forward pack alone. You talk about that team a few years back. The coach got fired, Mike Bayly jumped in & the very next year there were 6 new faces in the side. It’s all irrelevant as this is not a name & shame blog. Facts are there for everyone to see. If they not there for free then some union/organisation is paying for them to be there. We all know that.Its just getting harder to buy as they’ve been warned about poaching from the other big 3 Southern Suburb schools.
For the uninformed…this is not something new..Bishops had this Vital scholarship for years and some very good individuals have benefitted from it previously, some in rugby, some academically. It creates an opportunity for someone who would otherwise not be able to make use of the excellence that Bishops offer in academics, sports and other areas. This is an open invitation to anyone to apply, not some underhanded shady scheme focused on a specific player to lure him away from another school. It’s a simple advert to join Bishops with rugby as the focus, nothing wrong with this in my opinion.
@JK ? Can not afford to have a weak 1st XV, well in 2012 we did have a weak first XV, could not buy a win, although we did beat Bosch. Our Hockey side that year were unbeaten and won the domestic trophy also, so rugby while it is important in school life, its only one aspect of it.
Its is an untruth that, more than half the Bishops 1st XV are non paying school members, In the current team only two members of the team are non paying, all the rest pay fully. Please dont shout before you know facts JK.
Way to go Bishops at least you are open and frank about it.
Nothing wrong with this approach as everyone is doing it just this entity is doing it openly.
@Dale College Per Ardua Ad Astra:
Not sure I want to get in the middle of it.
@Andre: who was that boet??
@Andre: who was that boet?
@PaulRoosPa: stop om te droom-tye het verander-almal werf-ek persoonlik dink as n kind op die vlak begin goed vertoon dan het hy n toekoms.So hulle koop op die regte tyd.Sien soveel skole way laerskool Proviniale kinders werf en dan in graad 8/9 speel hulle B span.Meeste goeie spelers ontwikkel laat.Baie min “brekers” in graad 7 is nog steeds die brekers in graad 12
At Border trials, one school’s coach were approaching players very openly, even with their own coaches present….
It seems bursaries and sponsorships are all we talk about these days. It is saddening.
I think that we all being ignorant here. It is not only a Bishops thing it happens everywhere. All of a sudden some new faces appear from nowhere. Schools will always say that these amazing players dad’s changed jobs etc but bottom line they were bought. Wish we could go back to when fair was fair. Example SACS U 14, U 15, U16 A sides all beat Paarl Gym the other day. Great this means that in a year or 2 SACS will dominate Gym at 1st team level. Sorry not going to happen. Why, cos Gym ain’t going to have the same players. SACS will. SACS offer bursaries from junior school to high school where Gimmies offer the bursaries from Grade 11. Kids change, so superstars at junior school don’t necessarily mean great 1st team players. Gym have worked the system out.
Going back to Bishops, Vital pumped in big money, like any decent sponsor they need results, unfortunately, the average kid who attends Bishops is not going g to give them the results as is witnessed by the age group results. Not Bishops bashing but reality. Yes, marketing is extremely important.
@Balikibaba: Does Bishops fall under the “Traditional Rugby Schools grouping”? Reason for asking, is that the Traditional Rugby Schools have always said that they DO NOT offer scholarships. Oh boy, I hope they are seen as something else, otherwise this might open a can of worms regarding the other so called Traditional Rugby schools…
@jk: What? You pay school fees based on rugby performance and not the quality of academics and facilities? This statement of yours discredited everything else you tried to say “They cannot afford to have a weak first side as it will affect the image of the school as they have to justify the exorbitant school fees.”
It happens every year, it started in the early 80’s with post matric, when boys that played SA schools the year before for a rival Afrikaans school turned out for them. This was stopped when the rival schools said enough is enough & Craven week was changed to U18. They now had to find other ways to attract boys. If you look at there U 14, U 15 & U16 A sides they are poor. Vital have pumped big money into Bishops rugby & require results. They cannot afford to have a weak first side as it will affect the image of the school as they have to justify the exorbitant school fees. Fact for the past year or so more than half of the Bishops First side don’t pay school fees.
Unfortunately rugby is becoming professional & the winelands schools are not far behind. Its no wonder Gimmies organise one of the biggest U16 tournaments in the country. Scouting is happening big time.
@Balikibaba: Puhleeeze, they advertise one. They get 10 great applications.
They only grant 1 bursary?
If you believe that I have a nice tower in Paris that I can sell you….
@Balikibaba: one public one
One. Not enough in my opinion. lol
Bishops do ONE bursary. How many do other schools offer (in whatever shape or form or camoflage)?
Wow.
Wonder how many will be awarded.
Is this the final step?