KwaZulu-Natal is very passionate about schoolboy rugby. For decades school rugby in the region has been well organised, had good infrastructure and enjoyed a very strong support base. Many, many good rugby players have been produced by a number of schools in the province. However very few of these talented players have gone on to play for the Springboks. The truth is that as much as KZN loves their rugby and as big a part as the region plays in the overall well-being of the sport in this country, the province’s schools only account for just over 6% of the players that have represented South Africa on the international stage.
Here are some stats at the date of this post:
- 58 KZN / Natal schooled boys are listed as Springboks.
- 52 of these 58 have actually played for the Boks in a test match. 6 have toured but not played in a test.
- 58 out of 864 listed Springboks is 6.71%.
- Since Wally Clarkson became KZN / Natal’s first schoolboy to become a Springbok in 1921, the province’s strike rate is 8.19%.
- Since Craven Week started in 1964, 37 KZN schoolboys have gone on to become Springboks.
- Of these 37 Springboks, 26 including former Bok captain Gary Teichmann were picked for Craven Week while at school. That’s 70%.
- Of the 37, 11 Boks including current test starter Marcel Coetzee were not selected for Craven Week, equaling 30%.
- Maritzburg College is leading school contributor of Springboks in KZN with 14 (1 shared).
- Butch James is the most capped former KZN schoolboy with 42 tests including the 2007 Rugby World Cup final win.
- Warren Whiteley is the latest South African to earn a Bok test cap, becoming Springbok number 864 on the list.
Here is the full list of KZN schools that have contributed Springboks:
| # | SCHOOL | SPRINGBOKS | CW BOKS |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Maritzburg College | 13 + 1 shared | 5 |
| 2 | Hilton | 8 | 4 |
| 3 | Glenwood | 6 + 1 shared | 1 |
| 4 | DHS | 4 + 1 shared | 3 + 1 shared |
| 5 | Northwood | 3 | 1 |
| 6 | Port Natal | 3 | 1 |
| 7 | Kearsney | 2 + 1 shared | 1 |
| 8 | Michaelhouse | 2 | 2 |
| 9 | Westville | 2 | 2 |
| 10 | Ladysmith | 2 | 0 |
| 11 | St Charles | 1 + 1 shared | 1 |
| 12 | Dundee | 1 | 1 |
| 13 | Estcourt | 1 | 0 |
| 14 | Gelofte | 1 | 0 |
| 15 | Kokstad | 1 | 0 |
| 16 | Mansfield | 1 | 0 |
| 17 | Pinetown | 1 | 1 |
| 18 | Port Shepstone | 1 | 1 |
| 19 | Voortrekker | 1 | 1 |
| 20 | Vryheid | 1 | 0 |
| 21 | Kloof | 1 shared | 1 shared |
The list of 58 KZN schooled Bok players:
| # | BOK# | NAME | SCHOOL | CW YR | BOK DEBUT | OPPOSITION |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 157 | Wally Clarkson | Maritzburg College / Glenwood | – | 13/08/1921 | New Zealand |
| 2 | 183 | Bill Payn | Maritzburg College | – | 16/08/1924 | Britain |
| 3 | 190 | Bertram Vanderplank | Maritzburg College | – | 13/09/1924 | Britain |
| 4 | 199 | Philip Nel | Maritzburg College | – | 30/06/1928 | New Zealand |
| 5 | 201 | Neville Tod | DHS | – | 21/07/1928 | New Zealand |
| 6 | 252 | Ebbo Bastard | Hilton | – | 26/06/1937 | Australia |
| 7 | 257 | Roger Sherriff | Glenwood | – | 06/08/1938 | Britain |
| 8 | 258 | Mauritz vd Berg | Glenwood | – | 26/06/1937 | Australia |
| 9 | 259 | George van Reenen | Maritzburg College | – | 17/07/1937 | Australia |
| 10 | 291 | Paul Johnstone | Hilton | – | 24/11/1951 | Scotland |
| 11 | 311 | Harry Walker | Kearsney | – | 19/09/1953 | Australia |
| 12 | 315 | Clive Ulyate | Hilton | – | 06/08/1955 | Britain |
| 13 | 331 | Brian Pfaff | Hilton | – | 26/05/1956 | Australia |
| 14 | 358 | Mike Antelme | St Charles | New Zealand | 25/06/1960 | New Zealand |
| 15 | 359 | Keith Oxlee | Maritzburg College | – | 25/06/1960 | New Zealand |
| 16 | 380 | Ormond Taylor | Maritzburg College | – | 23/06/1962 | Britain |
| 17 | 385 | Trix Truter | Ladysmith | 13/07/1963 | Australia | |
| 18 | 397 | Don Walton | Glenwood | – | 25/07/1964 | France |
| 19 | 403 | Snowy Suter | Mansfield | 10/04/1965 | Ireland | |
| 20 | 424 | Rodney Gould | Glenwood | – | 08/06/1968 | Britain |
| 21 | 425 | Thys Lourens | Vryheid | 22/06/1968 | Britain | |
| 22 | 428 | Gert Muller | Port Natal | 1965 | 06/09/1969 | Australia |
| 23 | 432 | Andy vd Watt | Maritzburg College | 1964/5 | 06/12/1969 | Scotland |
| 24 | 436 | Martin Jv Rensburg | Port Natal | DNP CW | UK tour 1969 | |
| 25 | 492 | Dirk Froneman | DHS | 1970-2 | 27/08/1977 | World Invitation |
| 26 | 513 | Tim Cocks | Westville | 1971 | ||
| 27 | 557 | André Joubert | Ladysmith | DNP CW | 26/08/1989 | World Invitation |
| 28 | 563 | Lood Muller | Voortrekker | 1977 | 15/08/1992 | New Zealand |
| 29 | 569 | Hugh Reece-Edwards | Northwood | 1983 | 17/10/1992 | France |
| 30 | 576 | Steve Atherton | Pinetown | 1984 | 06/11/1993 | Argentina |
| 31 | 590 | Henry Honiball | Estcourt | DNP CW | 21/08/1993 | Australia |
| 32 | 592 | Joel Stransky | Maritzburg College | 1984/5 | 31/07/1993 | Australia |
| 33 | 594 | John Allan | Glenwood | DNP CW | 31/07/1993 | Australia |
| 34 | 598 | Hentie Martens | Hilton | 1990 | ||
| 35 | 603 | Gary Teichmann | Hilton | 1984 | 02/09/1995 | Wales |
| 36 | 636 | André Snyman | Dundee | 1991/2 | 17/08/1996 | New Zealand |
| 37 | 638 | Wayne Fyvie | Hilton | 1990 | 24/08/1996 | New Zealand |
| 38 | 648 | Jeremy Thomson | Maritzburg College | 1986 | ||
| 39 | 655 | Warren Brosnihan | Northwood | DNP CW | 23/08/1997 | Australia |
| 40 | 658 | Andrew Aitken | DHS | 1985 | 22/11/1997 | France |
| 41 | 659 | Bobby Skinstad | Hilton | 1994 | 29/11/1997 | England |
| 42 | 700 | Craig Davidson | Northwood | DNP CW | 15/06/2002 | Wales |
| 43 | 710 | Etienne Fynn | Kearsney / St Charles | 1990 | 16/06/2001 | France |
| 44 | 713 | Pieter Dixon | Maritzburg College | 1995 | ||
| 45 | 715 | Butch James | Maritzburg College | DNP CW | 16/06/2001 | France |
| 46 | 720 | Trevor Halstead | Kearsney | 1993 | 10/11/2001 | France |
| 47 | 725 | Warren Britz | Port Shepstone | 1991 | 08/06/2002 | Wales |
| 48 | 762 | Tim Dlulane | Kokstad | DNP CW | 06/11/2004 | Wales |
| 49 | 778 | BJ Botha | Kloof / DHS | 1998 | 26/08/2006 | New Zealand |
| 50 | 782 | Jaco Pretorius | Gelofte | DNP CW | 11/11/2006 | Ireland |
| 51 | 785 | Waylon Murray | Westville | 2004 | 09/06/2007 | Samoa |
| 52 | 789 | Peter Grant | Maritzburg College | 2002 | 07/07/2007 | Australia |
| 53 | 809 | Alistair Hargreaves | DHS | 2003/4 | 05/06/2010 | Wales |
| 54 | 820 | Pat Lambie | Michaelhouse | 2007/8 | 06/11/2010 | Ireland |
| 55 | 831 | Marcell Coetzee | Port Natal | DNP CW | 09/06/2012 | England |
| 56 | 835 | Patric Cilliers | Michaelhouse | 2005 | 18/08/2012 | Argentina |
| 57 | 837 | Craig Burden | Maritzburg College | DNP CW | ||
| 58 | 863 | Warren Whiteley | Glenwood | 2005 | 06/09/2014 | Australia |
Dixons looks intimidating even when empty – Goldstones very bland & ordinary without the crowds …
However a full Goldstones & Dixons rocks !!
Beet – during the rugby solstice we should get bloggers to post pics of their beloved rugby fields….
@Playa: I don’t know him and not seen him play either. I believe it was his choice to focus on rugby….
@Grasshopper: Well, in my opinion, as good a rugby player as he is, he is a much better cricketer. He’d do well to rather focus on cricket.
@Roger: I think your Under16’s beat a very strong Ville side though, if memory serves me correctly..
@Grasshopper: we wuz robbed
@Roger: 4th May 2013, Westville won 22-16…
@Grasshopper: which year?
@Roger: KES vs Westville, was up on business…
@Grasshopper: which game did you watch at KES?
@Grasshopper: Take the cake for cake too
…. The chocolate eclairs have been known to spark a stampede ..
@Gungets Tuft: Yep, House on a cold winters afternoon, mist in the air…..awesome! House take the cake for war cries and ‘signage’ with their blazers…
@Gungets Tuft: Hmmm. Might have to agree for Midlands venues. AR’ed a frenetic 1st XV match there this season – electric atmosphere.
@Gungets Tuft: Weird, I was told Bossr wanted to focus on rugby hence his move from Selborne…..although 20/20 is baseball anyway…
@Gungets Tuft: I think that happened with swimming a few years back……..
@Roger: Yep, maybe you have to be an Old Boy to feel the passion. Very similar sort of warcries etc to those in KZN….
@Playa: My favourite ground away from Goldstones is House by 100 miles.
@Roger: Haven’t seen House, but I have heard great things about the setting there.I must agree on St John’s. Very classy backdrop they have there.
@Gungets Tuft:
@Playa: I agree, completely subjective – for me (quite obviously) there is nothing quite like a game at KES on a JHB Autumns afternoon under the oaks and followed by a few cold ones in the old boys pub!
I will admit to not having watched any rugby in the EC and only at SACS and Rondebosch in the WC so no basis for comparison really but you would go a long way to beat the backdrop at St Johns and Michaelhouse as well.
I see Bossr is the 1st team captain at Glenwood. That must have gone down a treat.
@Gungets Tuft: I’m going mad – highlights at 1am on 202
GW need to up this run rate!
@Roger: Live on channel 210
@Roger: Very subjective survey, I must say. After 15 years of visitng Piley Rees regularly, I still fail to see anything ‘eye-popping’ about the field.Out of all the fields I have visited, The Rec still takes the cake…just as long as you’re not on the receiving end of a low textbook tackle on a dry Queenstown winter’s day.
@Grasshopper: have you watched at KES?
@Roger: Dixon’s at Glenwood is becoming a Bullring of sorts as the pavilions get built around it. Let’s just say it’s a fortress for Glenwood, beaten locally only by Kearsney in the past five or so years. Monnas, Affies and Grey Bloem have won there too……
@Roger: I voted Piley Rees, great views of the mountain etc. It’s like Newlands cricket ground, hard to beat! But in terms of atmosphere Goldstones takes it hands down and I have been to 95% of the grounds listed there. Hilton and Michaelhouse are pretty close…..
apologies – I see it is highlights at 1pm after the Aus SA T20
Great innings from Rilee Rousouw – hope he kicks on from here
http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/SAs-best-school-sports-arena-20141105
interesting
@Gungets Tuft: @GreenBlooded: @Grasshopper: I see Glenwood and College play T20 live on SS2 today
@Gungets Tuft: you have no idea – wiping my keyboard as I type
@Roger: Never figured you for a “clean” fetish thingy. You must have been a back and not a forward. I saw some tight 5 forwards that would make horses smell like Victoria Secret models
@Gungets Tuft: never watched polo – don’t like horses – they smell and attract flies. My daughter is making noises about show jumping – I bought her a hockey stick…
never own something that eats while you sleep
@GreenBlooded: I know him very well too …….. was a bloody good bowler in his day and was unlucky with injuries . He took 8 wickets in those two tests but got hammered in his 2nd ODI against Pakistan – he, he, he
@GreenBlooded: Haha .. I tried to kidnap Anneline Kriel once, when she was Miss World, at the Martizburg Royal show. I was sober … hell, it was 1974. Like a dog chasing a car, I wouldn’t have known what to do with her. 5 years later I knew exactly .. but by then I had raised my standards …
Argie enclosure .. makes sense. Considering how the South Americans bite I am not surprised ..
@GreenBlooded: You can take the wood out of the hood but not the hood out of the wood.
@Roger: Don’t touch me on my Steven Jack – he was my classmate. Your post is a gross distortion of the facts. It was 2 tests. (And 2 ODI’s).
@Gungets Tuft: All this talk of polo reminds me of a Sunday spent at the Inanda club watching SA take on the Argies back in my mispent youth – circa 1997. It all started rather well with my flat-mate and his girlfriend having a spat regarding her wanting to drink champagne from a Mickey Mouse coffee mug – he was a yuppy of note and was having none of that. By at the end of the day – we ended up trying to kidnap Ashley Hayden from the Argentine’s enclosure and being ejected from the grounds for gatecrashing the party at said enclosure and enduring some choice Spanish vocabulary. Not good…..not good at all.
@Grasshopper: so a one cap wonder is not qualitative – such as – for arguments sake – Steve Jack?
@meadows: My knowledge of polo goes about as far as knowing it is about okes (and ladies) on horses moering a ball with big mallets (but I did know about the handicaps). But, it’s always good for a day out in the sun. I am definitely not allowed in Plett in my tow truck, I don’t make it more than a kay off the N2 and the make me park behind the trees off the road, just in case any visitor gets the impression that a Plett car might break down .. and my Hilux is excluded because it DOES look like it will break down …
@Roger: Don’t have the time or will, let’s just say caps as quantitative and influence/reverence as subjective. Both Bryan and Graeme have both……
@star: I also thought that Murray had played for SA but he isn’t on the list. He was president if memory serves.
@Gungets Tuft: You beat me to it on the difference between Shongweni and Inanda (or Plett in December). I know where the better polo is played
The Argentines that have come out here and played in the past are generally a team of their youngsters – “only” 5 or 6 goal players although the best player in the world Adolfo Cambiaso was a 6 goal at 15 and a 10 goal a few years later! I don’t think Fecundo Pieres was far behind ( two other Pieres brothers are also 10 goals as was his father)
Our highest handicap is a 7 – the SA team that played in the BMW series was made of of two 4 handicaps, a 6 and a 7.
I have just been checking the Summer sports fixtures for Westville and we have an away fixture against Jeppe for Cricket/Basketball/Water Polo/Tennis and Squash. This must be a first for Westville as usually these whole school tours are centred around rugby. I wonder if any schools do this. We also play Jeppe rugby so I presume another school tour which will include the hockey players. Quite a relationship brewing.
@GreenBlooded: Current
@star: Which stand-off? The current one or the one from a few years back?
@Roger:
Here we go…
@Grasshopper: talk me through the quality vs quantity debate?
@ Meadows- I thought Murray was an international. I know he was very involved in SA Polo( Possibly president). He also had international clout as his reference got my brother a gig on one of the top polo establishments in the world. I think he was followed by the ” Rats” at SA Polo and then my other cousin ” larry” whose family as you have pointed out were indirectly responsible for the stand off between Hilton and GW.
@meadows: thinking on it now – KES’s cricket internationals include the chaps capped in the isolation era such as Jennings, Page, Barnard, McKenzie (Kevin) – although not official test according to ICC …..
@Gungets Tuft: well … Adrian Gore lives right opposite the Inanda club as did good old Brett Kebble (Hoeveld House is now a boutique hotel). Rumour has it that AG’s Kaya cost 75 plus bar …..
The Polo in Plett is not too shabby either ….. Plenty hot potatoes there too …..
@Roger: I got that impression from footage of Inanda. Nothing like that esor at Shongweni, normal shorts and flip-flops are common, cheese and tomato sarmies and Hansa from the bottle. They do draw the line at my tow truck, but my trusty old Hilux Double cab was ushered in without tears …
@Roger: in Brian Habana & Graeme Smith KES have two top quality internationals. Well done! Glenwood had Kevin Curren & Greg Nicol, admittedly in ‘minor’ sports….Madsen brothers, Jordy Smith….
@Roger: probably 14, 7 each. Need to check. Quality vs quantity is another debate….overall I think Glenwood has had 160 internationals…..not bad for Scumbilo….
@meadows: KES have 15 hockey, 16 waterpolo, 7 soccer and 18 swimmers
Gotta love Polo – serious day out at the Inanda club in Jozi when it’s on – and if you can afford the champagne and oysters!
Just don’t try park your old Jalopy there – even the car guards look down their nose at you
@Grasshopper: KES and College have 35 each if you use just cricket and rugby as per my post above – focus Hopper!
What are Glenwoods stats – remember –
Just rugby and cricket
OK, so College is tops for real sports probably followed by Bishops, Grey PE and Grey Bloem. Glenwood are top 20 and have at least 5 more rugby Springboks than KES :-). I promise we also have more SA surfers than KES and College :-), remember Jordy Smith earns more than most rugby players…
@meadows: Saw the Argentine team some time ago at Shongweni. Their skills are astonishing, they do things at a gallop that I could not do standing still on the ground.
@star:
I think that there are only 2 Boks from that particular family – Simon and Gillespie – but several others have been very involved over the years. Also 2 from a family probably best known for their well known game lodge in the Sabi Sands.
@Gungets Tuft:
I was fortunate to be able to watch the Argentine Open a few years back – the Argentine “club” teams full of 10 goal players sometimes all 4 members of the same family Pieres, Heguy, Astrada et al – to use a rugby analogy they are a bit like the All Blacks except with the rest of the world playing at the level of say Japan.
@meadows: Those polo stats are seriously impressive, despite being small bang in the Midlands
Correct about being home on the pony, can’t be learning to ride…
Don’t have the numbers for the other sports, cricket and rugby together are 35, with the disputed Mr Clarkson not included. I think hockey is 29, swimming 2 or 3, paddling is lots, the. Lots of the lesser knowns including flying, parachuting etc. 240 names on the honours boards, no chess and bridge…
@meadows: Th
@ Gungets – Don’t be too hard on College when it comes to polo. I knew a well known springbok and founder of the Shongweni polo club who was a good old College boy.
@ Meadows -You are right about good old farming stock for polo. 3 of your 21 polo players were from one family in the Canelands.
@Gungets Tuft: The thing about Polo is that all the good players are from farming families – throwing money at it when you’re a bit older doesn’t work. That’s why the Argentinians are so dominant – they are sitting on a pony and given a mallet literally from the time they start walking.
@Roger: Checked the archives ;-)
If ODI cricketers are added MHS could add one more SA cricketer.
The number of international rugby players (only 6 nations – Scotland 2, Ireland 1, Wales 1, Italy 1 = 5) if other 1st tier countries are included and 7’s Boks (1) are added would go up to 8.
So on your model that would result in 12 + 8 = 20
MHS has produced 18 hockey Springboks, no soccer or waterpolo players that I can see.
@Gungets Tuft:
MHS have 21 Polo Springboks and 1 for polo crosse, 10 canoeists, and SA internationals in a range of less mainstream sports;
equestrian – 2, swimming – 2, sailing – 6, fencing, rowing, shooting, squash, gliding and “precision flying” along with 9 triathletes. sadly only 3 for athletics but one was Paul Nash so I can live with that
@Roger: Don’t you start with the “opportunity” thing (like having the Dusi right next door) … but having a lot of farmers around is helpful. Makes me wonder how well House do at polo. I don’t think College have any showjumping celebs .. much more of a private school activity (we karrent do mink bru, just the manure part)
Bridge .. sport … {sigh} …
@Gungets Tuft: correct
Given you are slap bang in the Midlands and surrounded by those horsey types I suspect you top the list on dressage, show jumping and fox hunting too !
my favourite is still Bridge – good on ya those fellas
no tiddlywinks though (much to Hopper’s chagrin) we live in hope
@Roger: Polo Crosse is to Polo what rugby is to soccer – they have a net on a stick and can pick up the ball and gallop with it. Big sport worldwide.
We will klap you stukkend on polo – College have 11, 10 of them captains, including the youngest on record (Byron Watson – first 15 wing this year)
Have to allow water skiing, my uncle was a Bok, just not sure about ONLY the discipline of barefoot, reckon the okes need to chuck in the rest of the “trick” routines – jumps, slalom etc.
Casting bwahahhahhaaa .. bloody hell, next we will have “reeling” and “rigging” and “baiting” .. hooold on …. you already have your Bok colours for baiting, don’t you???
8)
@Gungets Tuft: surf lifesaver was L Coetsee
got four polo springboks – what is polo-crosse?
casting …….. ??? I imagine something to do with fishing so combine with angling then !
Power boating – barefoot skiing – do they count??
@Roger: Bridge … no, nee, nein, never in a million years. International, sure, sport, no. Shooting, accept (Olympic sport), underwater hockey (can accept, it’s got a world champs, and I have at least 4 mates who have the Bok colours – all #$%%# Glenwood boys too). Ten Pin bowling … eeish. War games .. nope, unless they have a chance of actually being shot. Combine the “practical shooting”, “Archery” and “war games” .. then perhaps. Flying, sure – has world champs (Precision, cross-country, aerobatics). Canoe polo – sure, but I’m not sure there is a world champs. Grappling .. you’re extracting the poo, yes. What is “casting”
Who was your lifesaver?
How about polo and polo-crosse … ?
@Roger: Hey, you forget the most talked about sport in SA….TRANSFORMATION…and Dale wins by a light year
@Gungets Tuft: how about barefoot waterskiing, beach volleyball, angling, archery, BRIDGE
CANOE POLO 
, casting, grappling, underwater hockey 
precision flying, practical shooting, ten pin bowling, war games 
and ……. wait for …… we have one springbok surf lifesaver 
@Roger: So you don’t have many for the other sports then …
Can’t see how you can exclude Olympic sports, or sport where they have World Championship competitions. If they have World Cup comps, they have to be in. For most popular – basketball and soccer would trump cricket for participation.
@meadows: rankings are hogwash – best gauge would be how many national sportsmen the school has produced (include sportsmen who have represented another country such as KP (vomit) etc) – lets just stick to cricket and rugby as these are the most popular and traditional summer and winter team sports (also include caps for 1 day and T20 cricket and rugby sevens). KES therefore has 35 – 27 for cricket and 8 for rugby.
SA School Sport website list of rugby Boks and Test cricketers by school. They don’t include ODI international cricketers in this list.
School Cricket Rugby Total
Bishops 18 41 59
Grey College 8 47 55
Paul Roos Gymnasium 1 48 49
SACS 12 24 36
Durban High School (DHS) 24 4 28
Grey High School 14 12 26
Kimberley Boys High 6 19 25
Paarl Gimnasium 1 23 24
Maritzburg College 11 12 23
Rondebosch Boys High 7 15 22
Paarl Boys’ High 0 20 20
Hilton College 11 8 19
St Andrew’s College 8 11 19
Dale College 8 9 17
King Edward VII School (KES) 15 2 17
Jeppe Boys 12 4 16
Wynberg Boys High 9 6 15
Michaelhouse 11 2 13
Afrikaans Hoër Seunskool (Affies) 3 8 11
CBC Kimberley 8 3 11
Kingswood College 3 8 11
Glenwood High 3 7 10
Selborne College 2 8 10
Pretoria Boys High 5 3 8
St Aidan’s College 7 1 8
St John’s College 7 1 8
Monument High 0 7 7
Parktown Boys High 3 4 7
Sacred Heart College 7 0 7
Sea Point Boys High 4 3 7
Hottentots Holland 0 6 6
Queen’s College 2 4 6
If 2014 rankings are used as a guide (from the same website) Grey High is hard to beat as an all round sporting school. They were 5th on the rugby rankings, 7th at cricket, 3rd at waterpolo and 12th at hockey. I’ve no idea how competitive they are at soccer and basketball.
@Roger: Naaa, that suits the schools with no imagination. And anyway, why would College exclude paddling, it’s where our two latest junior Boks (and one U19 World Champ) came from – that would just be daft.
Ag phooey man. Let’s just allow the lot. The odd school that presents a jukskei, ballroom dancing or synchronised swimming Bok must just be able to take abuse .. I can’t think that a badminton Bok or two is going to swing the votes … 8)
@Roger: I would include basketball.
I see KES currently ranked number one cricket school in the country – shame – poor old Hopper – if only Andile P wasn’t injured – his alma mater could have had a win over the top ranked cricket school in the country…..
Maybe next year Hopper………
@Gungets Tuft: keep it simple and keep it to the big five (at school) team sports – therefore swimming excluded:
Cricket
Hockey
Rugby
Waterpolo
Soccer
@star: And that’s where it’s going to become contentious – those ocean sports that are not accessible to the upcountry okes. In reality I was thinking more of the real fringe stuff with something like chess being a sport. I actually don’t regard things like synchronised swimming a sport, along with anything where you have 7 judges and where 2 scores get discarded, or “artistic impression” is a judging criteria. But then the difference between diving and synchronised swimming is probably quite small …. so eyerunno …
Lifesaving and surfski you are going to have some serious competition from the boys down in the Cape – Fishhoek being one of the best clubs in SA.
@Gungets Tuft: Maybe the way to do this is list all the accepted sports and then identify which school has all time bragging rights. Westville has swimming in the bag and with the Chalupski brothers possibly surf ski. Life saving ( if accepted) could also be a contender with Paul and Oscar 2 of only 3 world wide to win their national junior and senior titles. I think we can comfortably give rugby to Grey, cricket to DHS and Hockey to College.
@Grasshopper: Then the number is going to be decided by the definition of “sport”. I know some would regard surfing, bodyboarding and paddling as just a fear of swimming, and skydiving as a failed suicide. Hockey is just someone with bigger balls than golf. I reckon we don’t have a big enough can opener for this debate …
@Asha Amazambane: me too, KES will claim to have the most but that includes tiddly-winks etc. I reckon it’s Maritzburg College, then KES, Bishops etc. Glenwood claim about 160 including coaches…
I know that this is a hardy, rugger-only website, but I would be interested to pick the brains of you learned brethren about the number of international sportsmen – across all sporting codes – produced by SA’s leading sports schools. We all know the rugby and cricket tallies – but what about the grand total? I’d love to know – which school leads the pack…
Really sad – great to all the Westville community – a sign of the great school that is standing together.
RIP young man and condolences to the family.
@GreenBlooded: Thank you. Life is indeed a precious gift which can be taken away at any moment and is not confined to the aged. But its always sadder when a young life is lost, May the good Lord carry and sustain his parents and loved ones through these very trying times.
@BOG:
http://highwaymail.co.za/174942/hundreds-run-for-mark/
He passed away yesterday.
It was nice to see Maritzburg College and DHS as well as the spectators rise and observe a minutes silence for this youngster before the 1st Team Waterpolo match this morning.
@Grasshopper: What are the details?
@GreenBlooded: It reminded me of the whole Marc Joubert tragedy a few years back, just not linked to crime…
@GreenBlooded: Totally agree, only found out about it yesterday, huge tragedy. Condolences to his family & the Westville community at large…..very sad..
@star: @Amalekite: @Westers and other Westvillians. I think I speak for the entire Glenwood community and all bloggers when I say condolences to Westville for the tragedy which claimed a young boy’s life this week. I have a son who is the same age as this youngster was and when a young promising life is taken so early, it puts all the petty squabbles and nonsense here into perspective. It was really humbling to see the Westville community unite earlier this week and do a dawn patrol walk in support of this boy and his family. Thoughts are with his freinds and family.
All I remember about Mansfield were the ” stories” of razor blades in their boots.
@ Grassy- Mr Jordan taught me in the late 70’s early 80s. What a blast from the past.
@Toffee: I think that the guy you mention also ended up at Collegians – if it’s the same person I’m thinking of he became an SA kickboxing champ – Mansfield produced lots of good boxers Brian Baronet being one.
@Grasshopper: ah that explains the link
@meadows: http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/node/624
Brothers really…
I used to stay with a family friend in some flats in Addington back in the70’s every Christmas. In 75 I hung around with her nephew who was first team captain/8th man for Mansfield (if I remember correctly) and a handy amateur boxer ( days of Brian Baronet). I can remember pick up games of football and surfing. Most of the kids were from Mansfield and a really nice bunch of guys.
Beet – Mansfield rugby colours were same green as Glenwood but with red band with white shorts – same as old Western Transvaal Curry Cup colors – I think – also as a point of interest Glenwood’s Rugby Jerseys were darker green then – closer to the Boks colours
Mansfields Ties were green with thin red stripes –
my colleague at work is ex George Campbell – a real shorty – remembers playing against Mansfield and GC won most of their games
My Co-worker was the hooker for GC then and he tells me of the many times when when scrumming his feet couldn’t touch the ground ……….
@BOG: @beet: Hahahahahaha
@Grasshopper: Did a bit of checking. Glenwood started in 1910 and Mansfield in 1911 so it’s unlikely that there was any link back then.
I hadn’t realised that Stan Holmes was also related to Malcom and Snowy Suter but anyone who was involved in either Collegians or Natal rugby in the 70’s would tell you what influential personalities they, along with Terry “Wakka” Basson, Bennie de Klerk and a few others were at that time.
Two things I remember about Mansfield were they had green blazers just like those of Glenwood and their field was massive. Probably not as big in reality as in my memory but I’m almost sure 4 full size rugby fields could have fitted onto that one big flat flat open space.
Another thing was that the primary school was also called Mansfield and situated on the same premises. This kind of made it like the big Eastern Cape schools. Here in KZN many of us share the opinion that Gr8 recruitment from any primary school is acceptable, partly because our top high schools are stand alone institutes. In the Eastern Cape they are kind of all part of one big school that runs from G1-G12 – so one can see why the attitude towards Gr8 recruitment is so different in that part of the country. I had a conversation with a Grey High OB this year and when it came to talking about his u19 rugby opponent from Grey College Bloem for a particular game, he said he knew the player well because they had been playing against each other since u9A, when they were at Grey Junior and Grey College Primary.
Hopper
All the Mansfield memorabilia (Thank goodness for spellcheck ! ) is in
the Glenwood High Museum including the wooden ships wheel which was the motif on their school badge – I watched that match that Mansfield won – they went moggy – jumping up and down – no doubt they had a Texan or five in the change rooms afterwards – one of my classmates played 1st team – he said every time they scrummed against them he smelt cigarettes – their jubilation reminds me of about 2 months ago when St Charles beat a weakened Glenwood 7’s team on Dixons – they were punching the ground and celebrating big time
Umbiloburger
you blogged at 05.28 ?? Change your handle to “earlyburger” or earlybugger
@meadows: I’m sure Mansfield was started by Glenwood, maybe wrong. My dad always said they were tough buggers and good at soccer….
@beet: Regarding your analysis and the comment that only 52 of the 58 actually played in a test match I’ve always believed, rightly or wrongly, that a test cap made you a Springbok. The times have also changed in that for much of the last century there were no substitutes at all so a player either left the field and the team was reduced to 14 men or played on with his injury as many did in test matches. When substitutes were introduced a player could only be replaced for a genuine injury attested to by the pitch side doctor who would write a note to that effect.
In a later time a guy like Malcom Swanby who played over 80 games for Natal over a period that would today earn you probably three times that, and was on the bench for two of the tests against the ’74 Lions would certainly have been capped. On the subject of Swanby I found this interview with him in an old NRU magazine that I thought the Glenwood guys would enjoy. I’ve cut and pasted the relevant sections relating to SBR;
Having played in many a stirring encounter for Natal during his long career which earned him 80 caps, it is ironic that one of Malcolm Swanby’s happiest memories relates to a school match.
“Terry Basson, who was to later also play for Natal, and I were in the same first team which was doing well that year. Glenwood however had a strong side too and were chock-a-block with Natal Schools representatives so we thought we’re on a hiding to nothing when they scored a converted try almost from the kickoff. But we fought back and went on to win 9-8. Such was the elation at Mansfield that our headmaster, Mr Parry, gave the entire school the day off.
“My mother was the eldest of seven children and Snowy Suter, a Natal and Springbok player, was the youngest. One of her sisters was the mother of Stan Holmes, who later became the Natal scrumhalf. Stan came on the scene a couple of years later which meant our family had an active Natal player spanning a period of 20 seasons.”
@beet:
I wish I could provide you with some interesting story, but alas..I left out of my own accord…At 7 years old I could not adjust to the English speaking environment!..
@Playa: Thanks..but I already have a nice blue one…Affiliated OB status was bestowed on me by Boishaai!
@BOG: Record still stands at 21 days set back in the early 70’s
@beet: Strange that you should mention BJ Botha. Reading some of the comments here, it would seem that GCB could also lay some claim- he was there in primary school. Also Allan Donald then .And how matric worked back then? You had to learn and pass- otherwise you failed.@iRugby: Ek pronk nie met n ander man se vere nie. As far as Marcel vd Merwe is concerned, I actually regarded him as a Boishaai OB. Ek het ook nie van reels gepraat nie. Ek het wel die vraag gevra wat redelik sou wees. Miskien moet jy weer my vraag gaan lees.@Playa: What is the shortest period that a learner spent at Dale before being expelled- for interest sake?
@BoishaaiPa: Hahahaha! Let’s meet up at the Paul Roos Rugby Day next year for a quick lesson. I’ll organise an Old Boys tie for you
@Playa: I wasn’t there long enough to learn the war cry!…and I could not understand it anyway!..lol…
@Grasshopper: LOL! And that’s a fact
@BoishaaiPa: Howdee Ndoda!
If you’ve worn the blazer, walked the corridors, did the war cry, you qualify.
Interestingly, at m 10 year reunion a few years back there were 2 okes who had left Dale in the middle of our Std 6 year that attended. They were awarded their old boys’ colours at the reunion – wore the tie and blazer for the weekend together with the rest of us.
Agreed Beet – making it for Slovenia or Sri Lanka may well be an honour – but certainly not the same as making one of the top 8 teams.
@Grasshopper: Only Tian Strauss a Bok on that list.
In the past a lot of players left SA because they either were not Bok material or just couldn’t get a lucky break in SA. For many the route to the top proved to be a lot easier abroad.
Strauss was one of my favourite players back in his WP days. He found fortune in Aus during a period in his career when he might have struggled to earn another Bok cap.
Perhaps the list of overseas players who made it to international level should be limited to the traditional powerhouse teams – England, France, New Zealand, Australia, otherwise you end up with a host of players who weren’t even certainties for provincial duty in SA.
Pieter de Villiers, Mouritz Botha, Carlo de Fava, Brian Liebenberg, Brad Barritt, Matt Stevens, de Marigny, Tiaan Strauss, Clyde Rathbone….the list is endless…..
@Grasshopper: I spent 3 weeks in Dale in 1972…Do I qualify as an OB as well?…
I bet Scarra in his heart calls himself a Dale OB…
@BOG: Well, that is probably only your take on it because I personally know the Chairman of one of your local OG regions down here and he never matriculated at GCB…still he is regarded as an OG and puts lots of time and effort back into the school. The “matriculated” rule is basically just to draw a line in the sand for Bok honours and not for OB qualification it seems.
What about Greg Rawlinson, played 2nd team at DHS ended up an All Black!
@Bog.Boishaai’s OBU states that you become a member of the OBU after 1 year at High School.Thus Marcel is an Old Boy of Boishaai.He was never accepted at Grey and very unpopular with his teammates in matric at Grey.He also spent 5 years at High School in Boishaai.Jy pronk lekker met geleende vere !!Waar staan die reel dat jy in matriek net as daardie skool se Old Boy bekend is.Wat se^ Grey se Reunie Grondwet oor kwalifisering om n Old Grey te wees?
@BOG: That’s debatable. Most traditional boys schools will accept any past pupil as an Old Boy. I’m not sure I agree 100% with that, but it seems logical.
As beet says regarding PM boys, who should receive the credit for BJ Botha. Is it Kloof where he matriculated, or DHS where he completed post matric? My suggestion is both.
@Playa: The shared player situation will exist with every post matric at a different school senario unless post matric is disregarded. Scott van Breda is a good example. Rondebosch Old Boy but also a Kingswood OB
@Amalekite: Thanks SCC’s first Springbok now on the list
@upcountry:
with the help of BHP I have added a couple more guys from the region that does not exist
Trix Truter – Ladysmith
Thys Lourens – Vryheid
@BOG: Shared players:
I’m not sure about Wally Clarkson. Both College and Glenwood claim him – I guess it comes down to how matric worked back then.
Etienne Fynn passed matric at Kearsney and then repeated matric at St Charles. He made Craven Week and SA Schools as a St Charles player.
I think but not sure that BJ Botha finished school at Kloof and then did a post matric at DHS.
@RugbyDad: The dates are sorted. A bit of HTML trouble
I’ve updated the lists above.
Thank you to all who provided assistance.
@Grasshopper: Nonsense
@BOG: Possible
@Playa: Yet again, you are underestimating the total number of school rugby players in the FS. Im sure, they have more than both KZN and the EC. If you add the Griffons and Griqua areas, far more.
@Grasshopper: there are about 320 to 350 players at Michaelhouse.
@Playa: No chance, Gauteng alone must have over 10,000 boys out each Sat……
Michel Antelme was the first Springbok to come out of St Charles. He was a winger who played 5 tests in 1960 – 1 against France and 4 against the All Blacks.
@Grasshopper: Interesting thought. You might just find that KZN probably has the 3rd most schoolboy rugby players in the country after the WC and the EC. Probably an exercise for another day.
Just a thought, I reckon in terms of actual number of boys playing rugby in the province KZN must be one of the smallest, 400 each in the big 3 (Glenwood, College, Westville), then 250 for Kearsney, Hilton, Michaelhouse, Northwood & DHS. Clifton, Port Natal, Kloof, Voortrekker, George Campbell, St Charles, Gelofte, Carter, Kuswag, Suid Natal etc probably 150 max. So let’s say 5,000 in total….not very many vs other provinces. So our conversion isn’t too bad when you look at it like that…
@Rugger fan: Peter Zsitvai for Hungary & Nanyak Dala for Canada, although they didn’t play SA schools…
@Rugger fan: Indeed!
@Playa: I guess “home is where the heart is”.
Where do Fleck or Stransky have drinks in the OB club (probably both
)
I know Greytown still consider Philip Nel to be one of theirs – and even have a Sports house named after him – but all record books show him squarely as a College OB.
@Rugger fan: Don’t get me wrong, I fully understand that. I wasn’t coming from the view of movements being due to sport. I highly doubt that Joel’s move to College and Fleck’s move to Bishops were for rugby reasons, for example. Even Serfontein’s move to GCB wasn’t for rugby. I appreciate that there are other more important reasons that lead to kids changing schools. It is because of that that I want to understand what determines a product being shared.
Can Queens share Ryan Kankowski with St Andrews? He left earlier in Grade 9. Or to be ridiculous, can Dale share Jake White with Jeppe? He only attended Dale Junior till Grade 7.
@Playa: @BoishaaiPa: Going back to my first question- as far as I am concerned, you are an OB of the school where you matriculated, attending classes and writing finals. Did Marcel VD M move IN matric or after Gr 11? And how does he see himself? Perhaps he just went to Grey for some “finishing touches”- taking of the ruff edges so to speak. Like the fancy girls in Europe attend finishing schools in Switzerland- exposure to higher levels of culture, academics and sport
@Playa: On Gr10 moves. Sport aside – Gr10 moves are reasonaby common due to this being a time of subject choices needing to be made – and if a move is to be made inside of High School – this is probably a good time.
If I just look around our area (Upper Highway) there are a good few kids (boys and girls) planning moves from school A to School B (and vice versa for other kids) where sport is not a primary motivator. Merely perceptions on academics, current clashes with teachers or perhaps even economic? All of this without any scholarships or promises of X, Y or Z.
This appears to be a trend that has happened previously and will happen again. I’m sure sports scholarships and other “marketing” opportunities also play a part.
It’s always going be difficult to separate the fact from the fiction in these stories – but at the end of the day – it is the parents who need to live (and die) by their decisions.
@Playa: @BOG: Another case in point..Marcel vd Merwe moved from Boishaai to Grey in Gr 12!…
@BOG:
I deliberately avoided the KES ‘sharing agreement’.
That’s what my question was alluding to. At which point does one consider players to be shared? A move in Gr 9/10/11/12 – and why? The guys I mentioned above all moved in Gr 10 with with the exception of Bobo who moved in the last term of his Gr 11 year.
@Playa: With your (unvoluntary ) sharing arrangement with KES, I actually expected you to respond to my question.
In the case of JS, he did not change in matric, but as far as I know, in Gr10, along of course, with his parents, dogs, cats and budgie and tricycle.
@Beet – I see a few of your date formats in the CW Year are a little wonky – with the year 1905 showing up for guys like Bob Skinstad and BJ Botha.
Also – just as an aside – a number of the KZN schools have got test caps for other nations –
Recent examples from Maritzburg College:
Grant Appleford for England
Wimmie Visser for Italy
Brent Catteral for Zim
Mark Schultz for Germany
Grobbler and Erskine for USA
Not sure we want to count all of these – but I do know that a number of these guys did play Craven Week
Just a small correction…….. Andre Snyman is from Dundee High School.
There is a huge difference between dundee secondary and dundee highschool. Snyman and Joubert from Northern Natal. Not bad for a region that doesnt exist?
@BOG: Interesting point. For me as opposed to what you’re saying is at what point would a product be considered as ‘shared’. For example Joel Stransky was at Rondebosch before moving to College. I know Rondebosch claim him as their product
Unrelated to the topic you also have Robbie Fleck from Wynberg to Bishops and Gcobani Bobo from Dale to Rondebosch…Jan Serfontein…Grey PE to Grey Bloem…?
How do they “share”? Were they in two schools in their matric year, because where you matriculated, determines the school of which the player is a product.
@Roger:
#dead!
Roger
its all Glenwood’s fault ………….
@beet: Waylon Murray and co took almost a century from making CW to becoming Boks
@meadows:
Not what I wanted to hear! Now I have to reload everything.
Thanks I’ve added him.
Dbn Collegians stalwart Snowy Suter is missing from your list. He was part of the Mansfield contingent that were so influential at Collegians in the 60’s-70’s along with his nephew Malcom Swanby (who was on the bench for the Boks in ’74 against the Lions but wasn’t capped), Stan Holmes, Terry Basson, John Nortier and a few others.