I watched a CNN interview with author Malcolm Gladwell a short while back. In it he discusses his latest book “David and Golliath”. This is the same Gladwell that wrote the book Outliers in which he highlights the school age sportsman advantages of being born earlier in the calendar year.
Amongst the points he raises in the discussion about his new book is that the world’s most famous underdog, David, who according to Gladwell really wasn’t the “little guy” once he had changed the rules of combat to suit him. As an expert sling, David the Shepherd gives him the advantage the duel and easily defeats the giant.
One of the most interesting issues talked about is Gladwell’s Big Fish in the Little Pond concept. Here Gladwell backs up his claims with research and statistics. It is however just a sample and can’t be assumed to be the absolute rule of society.
Anyway his Big Fish in the Little Pond relates to top academic students at American universities and goes as follows:
The best students from mediocre schools were almost always a better bet than good students from the very best schools.” He further argues that the “Big Pond [in this case, the elite university] takes really bright students and demoralizes them.” “It’s the Little Pond that maximizes your chances to do whatever you want.
He does however admit that the very top students from elite universities more often than not become champions of the business world in the years following their graduation.
After watching the CNN interview, I tried to relate this point about Big Fish back to schoolboy rugby. Obviously there are many non-rugby related factors to take into account, the most important one being academics, but I tried to imagine the impact on the quality of competition if more parents were to say focus on making sure their kids stood the best possible chance of playing 1st XV rugby. So for example in an area like Bloemfontein, where the Grey College 2nd XV and perhaps even their 3rd XV is capable of putting away every other 1st XV in that city, by how much would the level of competition improve if more Grey boys went to the likes of Jim Fouche, Sentraal Fichardtspark and Louis Botha. Instead of playing for the B and C team, they would be A-team players. They would become the big fish in the little pond.
The same could be applied in Durban, where Glenwood and Westville’s have put themselves well ahead in the race to be labelled the best government school in the metro. This has worked against the likes of DHS and Northwood, who certainly could benefit from parents and students seeing their schools as the “Little Pond that maximizes your chances to do whatever you want.”
Anyway I thought this is a great blog if you want to read more about the pros and cons of Gladwell’s Big Fish in a Little Pond ideas:
@BOG: Our relationship with GCB has always been healthy and respectful of the long history and success of GCB. Maar, ou Boggie, ek sal dit se – as a span van BCG die Pepsi beweeging uithaal, sal daar beslis n “skande anderkant van Van Reenenspas” wees.
Personally, while I read about it here, I suspect that the old Pepsi move is a bit of an urban legend, or reserved for a particular opposition. Anyway, let’s just say that we Burru boys would be underwhelmed if it happened down in the Hollow (or in Bloem for that matter).. and not only because we would be more than a little disturbed by a 100+ score …. gnome sane?
@BOG: Dear sir. Why the common dutch. I speaka the English. Comprehendo? Can you pleas translate your message? I only understood “tjorttts”
@BOG: It was this year..46-6 to Boishaai..I was there next to the Oval and witnessed it. Friend of mine’s son played for Grey u/14A. The u/14 b’s won by about the same margin. But you are right, it means nothing in 5 years time. I followed the 2007 u/14 group through their years against Grey as my son was part of that age group. In 2007 in Bloem they lost as u14A by 10 points to Grey and the B team won 24-12. In 2008 in Paarl HJS won 10-0 and the B-team drew 3-3. In 2009 as U/16 they again lost in Bloem by 12 points. The B team won by small margin, but I cant recall the score. In 2010 only one player out of the group played 1st team and they lost 34-12 to a very good Grey team. The bulk of that 2007 group played seccies and thirds and both won their games. That was the day that Grey only won one A group game out of 6 on Brugstreet A. In 2011 that group went to Bloem for their final clash and drew the match 15 all…with the likes of Messrs Serfontein and Swanepoel in midfield!..The seccies lost by one point to a penalty in the 76th minute of the game!….Overall these two groups stayed pretty much competitive throughout their high school days and ended odds even I think . ..Sometimes if you have the depth like Grey always had, you can build on earlier success and keep the winning streak going!
@Woltrui: Tjortttts !!! I cannot think of a more appropriate response, so please excuse me.GCB has a long association with MC, which will once again, be resumed in 2014. What is more, GCB, het nog nooit skandes gaan maak anderkant van Van Reenenspas nie. Vir jou, klink dit seker iewat vreemd, of hoe se ek? @BuffelsCM: Almost like the drinking team which had a rugby problem. It was one of these Plattelandse dorp teams which habitually lost by a massive margin, but never failed to make up for it in the bar after the match. One observer remarked- “If they drink this much after such a loss, I dont want to be around if they should win”. The other responded: “They are clearly not a rugby team with a drinking problem, but a drinking team with a rugby problem”
@Woltrui: Mr Wooljersey……………one thing that you should know by now…..Bog went to Grey out of his own free will and wasn’t ‘invited’ there.
This sounds like a bogstorie to me
@Gungets Tuft: @BOG: Mr Bog if you are not to old to learn something, do yourself the favour and go to a Maritzburg College sporting event. Even as on old Gray boitjie you might learn something. All class and tradition. Same league as KES. Seldom that you have this common ego struggles when you’s dutchy parents are in attendance.
@Gungets Tuft: Spot on Mr Tufts. The message they give by the so called “pepsi” is sooooo typical. But as all the GB old boys will tell you… “we are so humble”
@BOG: Bog, I have a different “kind of Pepsi story” although it doesn’t relate to scoring tries: At a “koshuis” reunion a former primarius told this to me: It happened round about 1980. A so-called “memorial XV” of the koshuis played a match. The team consisted mainly of “ou manne” of which quite a few could play some rugby (during their earlier years at varsity) but gave it up for “other” reasons.
At some stage in the 2nd half, the flyhalf tried a drop kick on the 22m line and right in front of the posts….he completely missed the ball when he attempted the drop !! He was so disgusted with his own effort and screamed: ” Ag p&#* !! ”
All of the players on the field started laughing so much and eventually fell to the ground shaking with laughter. The game could not continue due to the hysterics on the field. The guys continued their efforts at the nearest bar and the story was told numerous times afterwards. The way he told it to me was quite funny and obviously I can’t do justice to the full story but that was more or less the crux of the story
@BOG: How else can it be explained other than the interpretation that “we are so good, the only way you can score is if we lie down”. How do you do that at the same time as saying ” I respect my opponent”. I genuinely don’t understand. Given your strength in rugby I suppose that it has never happened to you, but are you able to imagine that boot being on the other foot.
@Playa: Exactly my point. Maybe the Stormers have it in their plans, but have not been in a position to execute it.
@Gungets Tuft: Practical experience is the best remedy for an exaggerated concern of ethical behaviour. I truly hope that you get a demonstration of this unique tradition as soon as next year. Please tell the people not to miss this encounter, just in case that it may occur.
@BOG: Hahaha!I don’t think so. The prerequisite for doing a Pepsi is scoring tries…and lots of them…something my beloved Stormers are not capable of
@BOG: Eeisch. If a College team did that they would be suspended for at least 1 match. I saw a hockey keeper get suspended for a game for sitting down on the goal line because the opposition had not been in the College 1/2 all game.
I am sure there is a whole tradition around it, but at College it would be considered unsporting and there would be a nice big fallout.
@BOG: I’m acutely aware of that, lost to Westville by 40 points in under 13 and drew in matric….a lot happens in 5 years as boys grow and others don’t. Also the coaching makes a difference…
@Grasshopper: It was not this year- and good U 13 s or U14 s do not necessary mean good U18s
@Deon: Your trip to Gansbaai sounds much the same as our trips to Hangklip where we lived on wine, w—- and perlemoen- in the days when it was still plentiful. A friend once rushed through to call me. The lecturer let know if I did not report by the next day, he would assume that I have suspended my studies. No sense of adventure I thought at the time. I know about the demolition of the Grand. I told BHP, an old Helderberger, that they spent so much time there, that it was regarded as an annex. Heart sore moment when I heard a few years later, of its demise to make room for the old OK Bazaars expansion. An awful waste, I thought@Playa: You right. 107 – 0 lead sounds about right for the introduction of the Pepsi. You one up on me because I have never witnessed it. Do the Stormers not use it? Their defense coach, Jaques Nienaber ?, rose from the ranks of the Crocs, I believe. Maybe, but I cannot recall that they have ever commanded a substantial lead
@BOG: I have witnessed the Pepsi before. It was 1993, Grey 7ths vs Dale. I was a lightie walking from the Dale Junior fields and I noticed these Grey boys lying on the ground as Dale was about to kick off, the score was 110-0. The Dale scrummy (I suspect he’d been through this before) chased the kick off while his team mates were confused by what was going on, he fumbled the pick up and knocked the ball on, the ref blew the final whistle while laughing his guts out
Needless to say, the Dale 7ths coach that year would later be my maths teacher 7 years later. Still traumatised by those events all those years later, he forced us to do the Pepsi against Hudson Park when I played for his team in 1998.We got a mouthful from the headmaster,but dear old “Black Ninja” was finally on the right side of the Pepsi and couldn’t careless what the headmaster had to say.
BOG, I have never heard of Pepsi, but is a brilliant move, and made my day. I left US in the early 90’s. The wynspanne were still very active when I left. I am familiar with Tollies. The Grand was demolished when I was in primary school. On more than one occasion we selected our team for Saturday on Friday evenings in De Zieketrooster, Stellenbosch Hotel’s pub at time. We played a friendly against the Gansbaai dorpspan once. Some of us only returned to US the next Friday.A simple rugby game turned into a week long drinking, fishing, drinking, perlemoen diving, kreefdiving, drinking, partying extravaganza.We actually all formed a scrum and practised scrums against the Seaview Hotel’s bar counter. We also played with knee-pants, not pt shorts.
@BOG: Because we don’t have the space, Glenwood is in a residential area. Only option is to buy houses in the area and convert them to more boarding rooms, not very practical. 56 provincial rugby playing boys coming into grade 8? Didn’t Paarl Boys High under14A whip Grey College and everybody else this year? They must have got nearly every other provincial grade 7 boy then…
@Deon: With those credentials, while at US, you should have walked into the “Cheese and Wine league”- the 4 th teams of the “Koshuisliga”. Long before substitutes were introduced, we were permitted as many pitched for the game. We had our “team building” exercises and warm-up in the Grand or Tollies, depending on where we played. Mostly, one played like a house on fire and if Doc Craven passed by at that moment, a few could have found themselves aspiring for higher honours. But if he stayed, for more than 10 minutes, it would have been another matter. Is that still going on? Have you heard about the Pepsi (ar GCB), a “tradition” and exclusive brand of the Crocs, or 7th team? After my time, but apparently once they have built a good lead,they give a sign and they all fall flat on their backs when the opposition re-starts after scoring, allowing the opposithion to run through and score. Some would say its unsporting, but very funny, from what I hear.
Beet/Bog. That damn rugby ball just seemed so small. Not easy to catch, and slippery even when it did not rain. But we all, F or G team, always pitched on time for training, and we were really committed. For our final game in matric, we first dipped our hands in water, then in resin (harpuis), to enable us to catch the ball. It worked wonders, we completed an unbeaten season 26-3 against Paarl BHS.
@Deon: Your rugby story sounds a bit like mine. The news flash is if you were u19F, you were never a big fish anywhere, even if the pond had been drained and there is just a little puddle left.
@Westers: @Grasshopper: A few years ago Michaelhouse was seriously oversubscribed thanks to the movie Spud.
Spud 2 might have an adverse effect on their 2014 applications
@Grasshopper: 30 to 40 ? Then it has dropped. I believe it was 56. This is apart from all the other sporting codes and academics. I saw a picture of Grey pimary s provincial representatives and going by the numbers, it looked like a complete school photo- several hundred.And as I pointed out, two hostels are being enlarged to accommodate 40% of the school total. Eat your heart out! But if the solution was that simple, why does GW not increase capacity of the hostels?
@BOG: Grey certainly gets the quality as I heard something stupid like 30 to 40 of the grade 8’s played provincial rugby in primary school. Durban schools will be lucky to get 10 as they are spread amongst the biggest 8 schools. Another huge difference is Glenwood has 200 boarders so a sixth of the school, nowhere near the one third you mentioned for Grey. We all know Boarders make the best sportsman.
@Grasshopper: I am not sure that the Privates get that size of application. I know about two years ago Kearsney were struggling to fill their Grade 8 intake. They have even entered into an agreement recently with Highbury that guarantees Highbury boys a place in Kearsney and I am sure this has been done to make sure Kearsney has a captive market of sorts.
@Deon: Einste ! Natuurlik Grey, in my geval. Jy het dieselfde benadering as wat ek tot die akademie gehad het. Enigiets bo 50% , was n illustrasie van my “opoffering” van my nie-akademiese aktiwiteite. Dit het n tydjie geduur om daardie balans te vervolmaak.
@Speartackle: I dont think Mark Fish was there, but his son(s) are/were there, according to their mother, Louis. The liver, “among other things”, I suppose is the watch word, but if you have the Viagra, heart tablets and vitamins packed, Im sure that you will manage- only just.@Grey Brak: I fully agree with what you have said. A good example was Boom Prinsloo. He played U 14 C, and was not a regular in the U15 A side. He went on to play for one of the best first teams ever (2007), player of the Varsity Cup tournament, SA 7s , Cheetahs and who knows what in the future. Im sure its a combination of his determination and the quality and skills of his coaches.@Grasshopper: Yes, humilty. Even the mealies are not quite as tall as in Durban. If they can produce what they are with so “few”, the schools in Durban, should be doing a lot more and perhaps you should ask yourself the question: Why not ? That is the unseen, untangible factor that I have tried to explain here many times. But, as an after thought, I wonder how the “quality” of the applicants compare They were compelled to decline applications, even of boys already in Grey primary.
Ek het F en G span gespeel. My getuigskrif sê ek was kaptein van die onder 19F span in matriek. En ek is baie trots daarop, en sou dit nie verruil vir A span in ander skole nie. Ek glo ek het bo my vermoë presteer.
@BOG: Only 500 applications for grade 8? I think Michaelhouse, Hilton and Kearsney get about 500 each with place for only 110 in each. Glenwood get more than 500 too, but obviously boys will be applying at all the schools they want to be in so there is duplication. I was accepted at DHS, Kearsney and Glenwood, but chose Glenwood as it suited me at the time. I would have thought Grey Bloem would have 1000 plus applicants..
@BoishaaiPa: Well according to Gladwell, the big fish in the big pond usually succeeds in the business world after he graduates.
@beet @BOG: I totally get the concept of talented players ending up in B or C sides and not being exposed to the highest level of competition. On the other hand it can also be said that players who play in a B or C side in one of the top rugby schools will still recieve better coaching than many players in other schools’ A teams. It is evident that the top rugby schools are also attracting the top rugby coaches, even in the B and C sides. So a player who might have been a B or C team player at u14 level may end up playing u16 A as a result of good coaching in the junior age groups. Eventually it all evens out according to me.
@BOG: Ou Boggie……I’m off to Welkom now for my second year end function of the week…………..2 to go still this week. 2 packets of Myprodols in the bag………….not to talk about the sooibrande. Sometimes being such an eligible bachelor can be hard on the liver amongst other things
@BOG: Was Mark Fish in Grey?
@BOG: Dan is ek nogal trots op Klerksdorp Hoer……………..daar was 398 aansoeke vir volgende jaar
@beet: Oh and Greybrak further said, that more applications have since come in, taking the figure to around 500+
@beet: Yes, I did read that and commented on it the other day again. I think that around 480 applied while only 240 could be accommodated. So, the Bloem boys who were declined, will probably attend the other schools in Bloem. But Greybrak pointed out that both Murray and Brill House are being upgraded to accommodate more boarders. He mentioned that around 40% of the Grey boys will be boarders as opposed to the present one third. I can just imagine the conclusions drawn from this- I am waiting —
@beet: Now what happens to the Big Fish in the Big Pond?…
@BOG: Bog you must have read this one.
Keuring by Grey ontstel
http://www.volksblad.com/nuus/2013-09-02-keuring-by-grey-ontstel
This might see a few of the other local Bloem schools pick up some talented players.
But I read and understood all you have said. Just purely from a SBR point of view, it is possible that a few GCB B and C team players could have been Big Fish in Little Ponds if they gone elsewhere.
Nee, die een van 1921.
@BOG: Is dit waar dat jy onder kaptein was van die onoorwonne 1971 Perske span?
Beet, firstly, an interesting point. David picked up 5 pebbles for a reason. He was ready to take on the brothers of Goliath as well ! You then go on to your favourite ( ok, one of them) topic by asking the question if the interests of rugby/ learners/ ? would not be better serves if the “surplus” did not rather go to other schools in the area, rather than play for Greys 2nd or 3rd teams? I would challenge you to conduct a poll, even among the 4 ths, to see if they would rather have attended other schools, were they given the opportunity to play for those schools first teams? I can almost guarantee that there would be none. There is a LOT more than just playing rugby at Grey. Why do you think that there are boys from Durban, Pretoria, JHB, Cape Town, PE, EL- all over, attending Grey? Personally, I lived “in the shadows” of a well known school, but PREFERRED to travel several hundred kms, to Grey, and not for some bursary, least of all an academic one. And what is more, there are several well known Springboks and S15 players, who come from the ranks of the Peaches (3rds)