I was looking at the various school rugby rankings that came out this week and it reminded me of a time when professional boxing was a lot more popular than it is now and how the boxing ranking got so diluted by the numerous boxing organisation like the WBA, the WBC and the IBF, who all had their own world title belts per weight category to go with their own rankings. I somehow wished back then there was only one ranking to cover all pro boxers. Anyway back to the present and schoolboy rugby, in an effort to be bigger and better than all the other rankings out there here are the one and only WSBR rankings!
For those who bothered to read this far please use your mouse or finger to scroll between the ?’s for the hidden disclaimer:
? this ranking is a thumbsuck of note ?
| # | SCHOOL | COUNTRY |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Affies | SA |
| 2 | Grey College | SA |
| 3 | Hamilton BHS | NZ |
| 4 | Rotorua BHS | NZ |
| 5 | St Joseph’s | Aus |
| 6 | Scots C | NZ |
| 7 | HJS Paarl BH | SA |
| 8 | Paarl Gim | SA |
| 9 | Brisbane BC | Aus |
| 10 | Otago BHS | NZ |
| 11 | Paul Roos | SA |
| 12 | Bromsgrove | Eng |
| 13 | Gisborne BHS | NZ |
| 14 | Garsfontein | SA |
| 15 | Kings C | NZ |
| 16 | St Kentigern | NZ |
| 17 | Glenwood | SA |
| 18 | Scots C | Aus |
| 19 | Grey HS | SA |
| 20 | New Plymouth BHS | NZ |
| 21 | Sacred Heart C | NZ |
| 22 | EG Jansen | SA |
| 23 | Queen Elizabeth GS | Eng |
| 24 | Blackrock | Ire |
| 25 | Helpmekaar | SA |
| 26 | Boland Landbou | SA |
| 27 | Llandovery | Wales |
| 28 | Outeniqua | SA |
| 29 | Mount Albert GS | NZ |
| 30 | Jeppe | SA |
| 31 | Oakdale | SA |
| 32 | St Michael’s | Ire |
| 33 | HTS Middelburg | SA |
| 34 | Hastings BC | NZ |
| 35 | Selborne | SA |
| 36 | Wellington | Eng |
| 37 | Monument | SA |
| 38 | Wellington C | NZ |
| 39 | Millfield | Eng |
| 40 | St Mary’s | Ire |
| 40 | Rongotai C | NZ |
@beet:
Would be interesting to see if BV replace Jeppe on this list after beating them.
The formulas used are complex and not always show what people expect.
@Vleis: Let’s just say he bumped into a black belt judo oke……lol
Wonder wanneer BHP rankings vir 2016 bekend gemaak gaan word?
@Roger: No, you didn’t…but Spear reckons that someone got the better of him in the Ellis Park tunnel at the Bondedag rugby festival. However, he is short on details.
@Vleis: you didn’t really want to tangle with the Ryan brothers in those days did you – and then there were the Smith brothers from Roosevelt. Very involved with boxing nowadays
@Speartackle: @Roger: David was badly shot in the leg outside a nightclub, but he didn’t die. His younger brother (Kevin) was shot and killed at the Hyde Park hotel. Kevin was a year younger (’84 matric). He also has younger twin brothers (about ’87 matric), but one died in a car crash I think.
@Speartackle: You still need to tell me what happened in the tunnel at Ellis Park on Bondedag in ’83.
@Roger: Yep……
@Speartackle: proper Joburg boytjie that one – wasn’t he killed at the Hyde Park Hotel?
The most famous oke in Greenside 83 was David Ryan…..will never forget him
@GreenBlooded: @Vleis: same guys – played a bit of golf with both of them
Go Green Go Side
@GreenBlooded: Yebo!
@Vleis:
Greg never went to Glenwood – his younger boetie Graham only got there in 5th form (ie 1987). Not sure where he came from. But both redheaded. Must be the same okes. I’m tempted to do some facebook stalking but I got a plane to catch to the sand pit.
@Roger: I’m sure that there was a red headed Greg Carver at Greenside a few years older than me, so maybe an ’83 matriculant.
@Playa:
Brandon Nash?
@GreenBlooded: I know your ’87 headboy quite well.He did post matric at Dale in ’88.
@Roger:
Craig may have done post matric. But definitely in my year – ’88.
@Roger:
Same okes. His Boet Greg was a large lad and quite a bit older I think. Graham was a scrumhalf – so not a big oke by any means. Very useful cricketer too. Wicketkeeper batsmen if my memory serves – as are most scrumhalves……. 8)
@Gungets Tuft: Others were Huinink, Walton, Forde, Smith, Bauer, Van Rooyen, Taylor, Ralfe, Handman, Sharpley, Emberton, Godfrey, Burne, Fourie, de Villiers. Vynne missed a lot of the season, mercifully for the opposition.
Craig Davidson too young and Grant Bashford too old for 1988.
@Gungets Tuft: Yeah, that Northlands side must have been strong. Maybe Warren Brosnihan and Andy Marinos etc…..?
@McCulleys Workshop: and ‘ol Theo would know – he coached Highlands North back in the eighties. Similar to KZN, schools like Highlands, Athlone, Potch Boys High and the co-eds, Bryanston, Greenside (@Vleis: alma mater) Sandringham, Sandown, Northcliff etc were all more than competitive. The rugby landscape in JHB has changed markedly as well.
@GreenBlooded: BJ Emberton, AJ Godfrey, CD Handman, TW Sharpley, PL Smith*, ID Vynne played Natal Schools from that team. I wonder if the Godfrey is related to the Godfrey’s currently at College?
@GreenBlooded: Graham Carver – did he have a brother Greg – big red-headed chaps?
@Gungets Tuft: Warren Brosnihan was at Northlands in 88 and 89. They were decent in those days – merging with the gunja smokers from Beachwood didn’t suit them!
@GreenBlooded: played with Craig Edgar at Wits – I was trying to remember his name. I remembered there was a Glenwood boytjie in the team but his name escaped me – so there we have it. But he was class of ’89 no? Or was he MA (matric again
)
@Gungets Tuft: @Grasshopper: @GreenBlooded: What’s interesting is to see how close the scores were in the Glenwood games, although they won most of them. College was an exception. Really close games with Pinetwon, Northlands and Porties. How the landscape has changed with what is really becoming a super schools league. Interesting article today on the super rugby school concept with the effect of the player base being eroded, although he quotes no figures to substantiate this.
http://mini.iol.co.za/sport/rugby-s-conundrum-the-strong-get-stronger-2008420
@McCulleys Workshop:
Vynne rings a bell – yes. Gunget’s is a walking encyclopedia on College teams – he can probably give all the names.
Glenwood players that year that I remember: Geoff Norton, Brett Burnill (Head Prefect), Dennis ‘Tubby’ Richards, Warren Groupe, Eugene Maree, Sebastian Nel, Ian Longden, Marc Labuschagne, Rohan Botha, Peter Senekal, Graham Carver, Craig Edgar, Craig Meekers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massimo_Cuttitta
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcello_Cuttitta
Steve Atherton doesn’t qualli for a Wikipedia page……
@GreenBlooded: Was that Wayne Vinn and Ruan Van Rooyens year?
@Grasshopper:
Only 10-3 vs Pinetown!! Eish. Those were the days. In my time at GW, Plank Atherton and the Italian twins (Cuttito) played for Pinetown. Northlands and Beachwood were still separate schools. We still played Grosvenor. Do they still play rugger there?
@Gungets Tuft:
Still remember a few of those okes. Handman, Walton and current College parent Wayne Huinick played in that team.
@Grasshopper: 1988 was one of those good 80’s College teams
Alexandra 29 – 9
DHS 28 – 10
DHS 13 – 8
Glenwood 13 – 7
Glenwood 30 – 9
Grey High 14 – 9
Hilton 14 – 7
Kearsney 33 – 0
Linpark 20 – 3
Michaelhouse 26 – 9
Northwood 7 – 6
P.B.H.S 37 – 10
Queens 20 – 4
Voortrekker 48 – 3
Westville 16 – 12
Who played for Northlands – took it to the last gasp.
@Roger: Not sure, Greenblooded might have the yearbook. Ya, you Gautengalengs have it easy going the other way, far easier to come to the coast than the other way around.
@Grasshopper: who else did they play at the festival that year? KES beat DHS and Northlands quite easily in 88 too – admittedly at KES. Poor lambs – altitude is a bitch
@GreenBlooded: 1988 local results;
vs College – lost 7-13 & 9-30
vs DHS lost 3-16
vs Michaelhouse won 15-10
vs Hilton won 13-7
vs Kearsney won 22-3
vs Port Natal won 8-6
vs Northlands lost 15-18
vs Westville won 15-12
vs Beachwood won 28-0
vs Pinetown won 10-3
vs Grosvenor won 54-7
So not a bad year really…
@GreenBlooded: Just checked, 5 Natal Schools players so a pretty good side.
Groupe
Longden
Maree
Richards
Senekal (VC)
That KES side must have been a hot one.
@Roger: must have been a strong KES side. Home advantage at Saints ?
@Grasshopper: 28-12 at Saints Week
@GreenBlooded: Whicked, what an awesome memory to have. A draw with DHS in those days was considered amazing. Just checked my team, the 3rd’s results from 1996. Played 11, won 7, drew 1, lost 3, Points for: 332, Points Against: 191. The 3 losses were College, DHS and House. 4th’s played 10, won 8, lost 2, Points for: 267, Points Against: 145. Both sides won combined team of the year. Compare that to the 1st and 2nds, played 30, won 8, something a little fishy there. Methinks teachers pets and bias existed.
@Grasshopper:
’88 – my year! A few Natal Schools blazers from that bunch. Maree, Richards, Groupe, Senekal. Perhaps one other – Longden maybe?
Remember playing in an epic match for the 2nds against DHS – which ended in a 6-6 draw.
@Henkies: Sorry, haven’t been following this thread, I don’t do rankings, more especially when the suction pipe has to reach New Zealand and Mud Island
1996, College beat Gisborne 16-3, lost to Tonbridge 18-26
@Vleis: Indeed a hammering from Bishops, one of only losses that year, the other a 12-13 loss the Grey in Bloem. Beat the likes of Paarl Gym, Rondebosch, Wynberg, Jeppe. That Bishops match is well covered in the Jimeloyo Ji, Bishops claiming is was payback for the 1985 loss of 44-0 to that epic College side that was unbeaten, including the one (of two) wins against Grey College.
That 87 side had 4 SA Schools players (Catterall [c], Goedeke, Reed and Wilson), 2 more in the KZN schools side. Definitely a scalp worth having.
@Roger: What was the score vs Glenwood? That 88 side wasn’t too bad, only losing to DHS (3-16) and College twice (7-13 & 9-30).
@Vleis: 87 lost only two – Bishops at Saints Week and Boys High. They beat Grey High, Dale, Monnas, DHS.
88 lost only one to Boys High – beat Paarl Boys, SACS, Glenwood, DHS and Monnas.
89 lost 3 to Boys High, Northlands and Dale – beat Kearsney, Queens, DHS, Wynberg and Monnas. Spot the bogey team – KES did not beat Boys High from 85-91. As good as they were during that period they just couldn’t get over the line against them. The differential in scores was an average of 2 points!
@Vleis: Not a chance!
@Roger: Can you post the results for KES’ ’87, ’88 and ’89 seasons?
@Playa: Please do not tell me you lost to Stirling?
@Roger:
@Playa: cast your mind back to a certain player moving from SACS to KES in 2014 and the furore around that. I believe Mr Ball was furious and continuously referenced the KES Dale game in ’87 and how they were robbed then too
@Candyman: Parktown Boys I presume? That was my era – my coaches as too.
87 were good but 86, 88 and 90 were better!
@Roger: Current SACS headmaster,Kenny Ball was the coach
@Vleis: Yep…from 1880 to the Glenwood game at KERF.Haven’t for today’s result yet
@Roger: Paddy Moore and Ian Rickelton were kes coaches, 87 team was quality, 89 side cost me a perfect season
@Playa: No worries, do you have archives of all the Dale results? Impressive.
You right @Vleis: 87 – KES were good in 87 too but 86 and 88 were better.
@Playa: swings and roundabouts 8) who was your coach in 87?
@Vleis: @Roger: I still hold a grudge against that KES ’87 side for spoiling our unbeaten season…spoiling theirs in 2011 is still not enough
@Vleis: The school only rang a bell when you mentioned it. So I checked my archives. That’s the only reason I brought it up.
I saw a video of that KES-Greenside game some years back. Small was blitz!
@Playa: Yep, ’84 they were average – ’85 was their dream team.
@Roger: It was ’87, as Small was at Eden College in ’86. He left Greenside for a year and then returned.
@Vleis: in 86 KES and Greenside played a curtain raiser to the Springboks vs Cavaliers at Ellis Park. James Small was in that team and he single handedly almost beat KES. He had so much space at Ellis Park and with pace to burn as well! KES had a bloody good team in 86 too
@Vleis: Dale’s only win at Saints in ’84 was against Sandringham…23-4
@Ringo: Looks like I won’t make it today. Good luck to both teams.
@Roger: Sure, ’85 was a poor year for KES. In ’84 and ’85, the final match of the season was Greenside v KES. It was the main match in ’84 (10,000 spectators) but was a cripple fight in ’85.
To be fair, KES (like Bishops) was undefeated at the ’84 festival at Saints (the first ever Easter festival) and had some stellar teams post ’85.
That ’85 Sandringham team was slick…and the ’85 Highlands team was rougher than a goat’s knee.
@Playa: Sure, as I said in my message, “Was nice to see.”
@Vleis: @Ringo: Lack of pale faces can be a positive thing…I’m an Old Dalian I know all about it.
@Ringo: Can’t agree with you more on that.
@Vleis: To be fair KES in 85 were shite. Lost to PBHS, Jeppe, Highlands, College, Bishops, DHS, Grey High, Union, Sandringham and drew to Athlone and somehow managed to beat Monnas
Top teams in JHB in 85 were Jeppe, Highlands and (believe it or not) Sandringham. As a coed school, they had one of those years where it all comes together (and with a few boys studying towards an MA – matric again) 
) Mark Batchelor was in that team with Warren McCann in the Jeppe team and Graeme Joffe in the Highlands team. KES did not lose to a JHB school again after 85 until 1990 when Jeppe under Jake White with James Dalton in the team won the return game. @Ringo: will remember KES won the first game at Jeppe on the occasion of Jeppes centenary celebration. Dalton had been suspended by the headmaster for that game for fighting against Athlone the week before (funny that :wink:) The entire Jeppe Boys High had a sit in on the main rugby field and refused to return to class until the headmaster reinstated him. He didn’t budge though – Dalton remained suspended and KES spoilt the party 
@Vleis: There is even fewer there today…… it does not mean it is bad school though……. I remember we tended to shyed away from co-ed schools ….. they tended to be more fights in those games than in game against the likes of Boys High. Remember a particular shameful day when we lost a 4th game to boys high something rediculous 69 -0 with something like 15mins left that we were well beaten and physically dominated oakes where too scared to start the mandatory and traditional fight to get the ref to call it early that we asked him nicely for mercy….. the following week we played Krugersdorp and after 8 mins we had scored 3 quick tries and not even a heartbeat the first of our team mates were getting our of rucks and mauls bloodief
@Ringo: Yep, we were dirty in the 80’s, but the stories from the 70’s sound far worse!
The dirtiest team that I played against was Highland North Boys.
For some reason, we never played Jeppe while I was there. Pity, as they would’ve been good contests. Unfortunately, Greenside’s rugby prowess started to decline in ’89 and never recovered. I did go back to watch a 1st team game about ten years ago when a mate was the coach. The school looked the same except the stands were no longer filled with pale faces!
Was nice to see.
@Playa: Yep, he was in g11 when I was in matric.
@Playa: I think UCT is a phenomenal institution. … just think Cape Town Southern Suburbs slightly removed from the world…. Braamfontein has come alive and Mens Res at Wits is the school of hard knocks
@Vleis: I know Greenside my brother in law nearly went there great school near Parktown girls…. I convinced him Jeppe was better bet…. great academic institution mate I did articles with was from there….. think when I was i. school greenside and Northcliff might have bloodied our noses …. Eish but English co-ed played the dirtiest rugby ever
@Vleis: Wahahaha
@Vleis: Is that the same school James Small went to?
@Ringo: I went to Greenside, which is a co-ed school located between Rosebank and Melville.
@Ringo: Hey! Watch it…UCT has some serious life lessons to teach as well…I have my 1st and 2nd year transcripts to prove it…beat me right into some sort of shape
@Vleis: only kiddin about you sending your son to Wits although I think Wits if experienced properly would give your son a wider perspective on SA society.
@Vleis: can’t place you Vleis either Parktown, Highlands or Athlone boys ….. I studied at Wits and aside from my poor grammar and terrible spelling think a life at Mens Res would be akin to what you learned in the 80s real life in 4d for your son….. If he studies at UCT and Stellies he will be further engulfed into the life of privilege….. plus heard rumours that Wits will be in the varsity cup next year
@Grasshopper: He would’ve been at the school at the time, but would’ve been a junior. I remember a Stransky led College with Jeremy Thompson and an excellent (and tough) 8th man dismantling a very strong Bishops team by 44 to nil at that fest in ’85.
A few years later (in ’87), I watched a great Bishops team get revenge by hammering a very good College team (lots of Natal CW players and quite a few SA schools players) by 41 to 9 at the Piley Reese. A few weeks later I watched my old Alma Mater co-ed school beat* both SACS and Wynberg in CT!
* one might have been a draw.
@Vleis: As the Cape folk would say…”Oh!jihnne!”…it is indeed the wrong weekend to be here or in Stellenbosch if you’re a schoolboy rugby fan. The following weekend would have been a much better time. Though, sadly, 1st XV games down here usually are a 11am/12pm kick off matter. So it would have been difficult to squeeze a game in between 2 open days that are 50 odd km apart.
@Vleis: this was Bishops pre Tank Lanning?
@Playa: By the way, I am taking my son down to CT next week to have a look at Stellies and UCT (open day on Sat 16 April), so was hoping to take him to a big Cape school derby, but I see that they are all playing away apart from Wynberg (who he has already seen this year since he played against them
) who are playing v a very weak Tygerberg team. That’s a pity. 
@Ringo: Talking about Hilton, I remember attending the Saints festival in ’85 (when I was in matric) to see these teams from the rest of the country. At that time, we had no idea who they were, as it was the second ever festival and there was no social media, etc, etc.
The first game I watched (with my teammates) involved Hilton. We all laughed at the name ‘Hilton’, saying that it sounded like a detergent (Milton), so we concluded that they must be some poor school from the middle of nowhere.
Then we watched Bishops, who came onto the field with no numbers and looked a motly bunch as the shirts were different shades of blue given that some were a few years old while others were new, etc. We concluded that they must be a shite and poor school.
They then hammered our biggest rival KES with ease.
Then we watched Maritzburg Collefge and assued that they must surely be a shite and poor school as they were from a little crappy town. They proceeded to hammer PBHS, KES and Bishops.
Finally we concluded that we Jhb schools wre overrated!
@Vleis: yep, it’s a girls school with 6th form for boys. The boys do play club though. I get your point
@Vleis: Very clear!
@Grasshopper: You make me laugh.
Obviously we’re talking about Tonbridge School given that this is a rugby blog and Tonbridge Grammar does not even have a boys rugby team!
@Ringo:
big sister huh! 
@Vleis: Depends on which Tonbridge school you talking about, Tonbridge School is private and Tonbridge Grammar is state. I lived there I should know
https://rugbyredefined.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/irb-dev-glob-map.pdf
England has over 2 million registered players!! That is 6 times more than SA.
@Playa: @Grasshopper: Correct, the UK public schools (i.e. private) are generally much stronger than their government school counterparts due to having a better rugby history/tradition, much better facilities, more cash, more scholarships, etc. The professional club academies (e.g. Bath, etc) select their players from other smaller clubs, rather than schools (although the latter can happen). There is a massive club rugby network in the UK. The players in the professional club academies can be from private or govt schools, but many are sent to private schools (if they have to move) to sweeten the deal.
By the way Grassy, Tonbridge is most definitely a private school and costs over £30k (R650k) per annum!
Out of interest, three of the schools mentioned in Grassy’s article as major rugby schools in the UK toured SA in the past five years and did better than most touring teams:
1. About five years ago, Wellington lost by two to Bishops, beat Bosch by one and lost by about 10 to KES, when KES was ranked about 15 and Bishops and Bosh were not in the top 30.
2. Last year, Paul Roos beat Truro School by about 65 in the Sannix semi-final.
3. Millfield played at St John’s about five years ago and lost by about 15 to a HJS team that included some 4th team players (the 2nd and 3rds were at Sannix) and lost by about 10 to Daniel Pienaar, but beat St Johns.
@Grasshopper: and that way the game never dies and develops and you get an amazing and diverse professional player base… whereas here one size fits all and many people do not see club rugby as an alternative
@Playa: they wear the same uniform as us although the stripes on their blazer are thinner like the Jeppe girls blazer and even stranger still like Jeppe girls our half colours blazer is their full colours blazer…. I know they are older than us have a more storied history than ours but I like to think of them as our successful big sister from East London
@Ringo: Spot on! Also many guys develop after school. I was one of those. Played 3rd team at school then within 3 years I was being picked ahead of the guys that played 1st team at school. England has a great club game, where you can play the level you like. More serious 1st division down to a 5th team at a club for the drinkers, smokers and guys just wanting to play for the fun and love of the game. I remember playing in the UK for Bank of England in Roehampton 3rd side and next thing my 55 year old CEO ran onto the pitch for the opposing team, it was hilarious!
@Vleis: Think I heard a ridiculous stat at the previous u20 world cup that of the 23 England players that in the one game I was watching there were 22 different schools that were represented but 6 or 7 academies that were in the team. We do need a strong club rugby or semi professional set up through the love of the game can be furthered. Think most youngsters are lost to rugby after school just because they are not many available avenues thorough which interest can be maintained after the school careers are over. Hence the reason we struggle so much with depth at the Senior ranks a touchy subject. The other think is talented players that are scouted earlier are also to the system and not further developed…… the springboks would be far more competitive against New Zealand if it was not for the fact that at least 92% of people who play 1st XV rugby in the last 15 or so years played their last game of rugby when they were in matric.
@Ringo: Another school in East London, I forget it’s name now, wears the same black and white stripes
@Grasshopper: Aha! The article you posted gave me clarity. Thanks again
@The Beast: Maybe I walking blind into things that do not concern me….. However definitely want to clarify that I never wore the Black and White stripes of the Jeppe 1st XV closest a relation got was my brother who played nearly two years think if Beet can relieve me of my false pretence the or if I ever created an impression that I played 1st XV at Jeppe…. Although my understanding was that the avatars are mainly an indication of the where our different elegancies lie and not the essentially us wearing colours blazers in public. In fact my brother told me that it was such honour wearing his first team jersey and most people who earned it they would never wear it unless it was to play a 1 st XV Jersey. People who have earned it would not tarnish its integrity by wearing it in public or letting anyone else put there on….. Hence whenever they see someone wearing the Jeppe jersey in public my brother says you know for a fact that they never played 1st XV….. On a side note the strangest thing I ever saw while I in school and still today is that the junior teams at Hilton were black and white hopes similar to Jeppe first side Jersey…. I guess what I am saying that SBR is not matter of life and death…. Thank you Beet for providing us with a platform to be distracted from our boring jobs and to occasionally throw shade at our rivals…… I think these rankings are a valiant effort and well done Beet and they generated a new and vibrant thread on the blog
@Playa: Clubs usually take the Grammar boys as the privates are very focused on Academics too, not that Grammars are not. Yep, privates are usually way stronger than the Grammars, Tonbridge being the exception. The Tonbridge area in Kent is very sort after as it has the greatest concentration of Grammar Schools. The UK works on a location system so if you want to get your kid into one of these Grammars you firstly need to live near the school and secondly your kid will need to write and pass an entrance exam. The Judd is another great school in Tonbridge.
@Grasshopper: Thanks Grassy. I get the whole Grammar vs ‘Toff’ thing. Just wanted to find out if clubs do take boys from the Toff schools or is it just kids from Grammar schools that get these arrangements? And is my understanding that the Toff schools are stronger than the grammar schools correct?
@Playa: Here is a very interesting read about UK Schools rugby, sound familiar? http://schoolhousemagazine.co.uk/file/2011-AW/Playing%20Rugby.pdf
@Playa: Wellington, Dulwich, Millfield, Oakham and Whitgift are usually the top 5 in the UK looking at their history. Bromsgrove are up there too.
@Playa: Grammar schools are the Gov run, hence Tonbridge Grammar is a state school. These schools are the best Gov schools and have waiting lists. The equivalent of these in SA are the likes of KES, PBHS, SACS, Westville, Grey PE, College etc. The private schools are super expensive, you looking at 20,000 quid a year min so are for kids of wealthier parents, ‘toffs’ as they call them there. Think of James Blunt. Cricket and Rugby are the sports of wealthy gentlemen, so for these schools are their main sports. Soccer or football is usually played by the non Grammar schools. The equivalent of the privates are Bishops, Michaelhouse, Hilton, St Johns, St Stithians, Kingswood etc. It’s very similar to here in SA. A posh name though doesn’t mean a posh school.
@Vleis: @Grasshopper: Does the same happen within public (called private in SA) schools in the UK? I’ve been of the opinion that UK public schools are stronger than their government school counter parts by virtue of such club-school arrangements being more prevalent with boys attending gov schools. Hence you find that gov schools touring SA get pasted, while the public schools tend to be more competitive, albeit not at say our top 5 schools’ level. This has admittedly been my uninformed opinion, so would appreciate some education on the matter.
@Vleis: I agree with you. Having coached an Under21 side in the UK, there isn’t nearly as much horse trading/poaching/buying etc. However, England does have the most number of players playing club rugby in the world, by far!
@Henkies: @McCulleys Workshop: Professionalism has not infiltrated the UK, French or Oz schools to the same extent that it has the NZ and SA schools…not by a country mile. That is why the SA and NZ schools hammer the foreign schools when they do meet on the odd occasion. I remember the reigning English champs (twice in a row in fact) coming down to SA a few years ago and getting a pasting from most opponents here. The school was called Dulwich – Ollie Kebble’s alma mater.
However, as I said yesterday, their national u18 and u20 teams are selected from club academy teams, not schools….and the clubs are even more professional than our schools. Therefore, they’re able to pick a strong national team from the 15 (or so) strong club academies. Indeed, it may even be easier to pick from 15 academies than from hundreds of schools. Of course, their depth is nowhere near as strong as the depth in SA and NZ, which is why the latter are able to export so many rugby players to the north.
In general, their schools do not have the horse trading that occurs in SA & NZ re buying and selling players. Rather, a club academy will find a player and place him with a local school nearby, but on condition that the academy comes first re rugby. Our horse-trading at schools occurs because players are selected to the pro ranks directly from schools in SA and NZ.
In short, the UK, French and Oz rugby recruiting works in the same manner as their football (and our football) – i.e. it’s via the club system.
@Grasshopper: Would love to have a Fanta or three with him.
@The Beast:
@Playa: Rob Hutchison, an Afrikaans teacher at Glenwood for the past 30 or more years is an Old Dalian, he had some awesome stories to tell us about Dale. He is a legend at Glenwood, partially deaf & never actually taught any Afrikaans. Great rugga coach too
@Playa: yep, I think we took a pounding from Queens that year too. Need to check the year book….
@Grasshopper: Dale played DHS that year and lost 19-27. Actually played Beachwood and Glenwood as well, getting 2 out of 3 against KZN sides.
@Playa:
I think ou Paul Dobson still has nightmares about that collective. I still have a folder full of emails from him.
@Henkies: I remember the de Bruyn brothers very well, Paul I think was killed tragically in a bike accident. Paul was certainly the biggest schoolboy prop I have ever seen. Yep, 1991 we had some big boys, Dom Sjunka and co…
@The Beast: I actually played 3rd’s mostly on the bench for the 2nd’s a couple of games. In 1996 the 3rd’s and 4ths got joint best teams of the year, only losing a couple of games. In fact at practice we gave the 1st and 2nd’s a good run for their money. We certainly had favouritism with the 1st team, hence them losing 14 out of their 17 games that year. Many in the 3rd’s should have been 1st’s. I know that stats well because I am a stats person. After school is where I played my best rugby, playing Varsity Under21A, Wesvtille Old Boy 1sts and Collegians Under21A for 5 games. I never claimed I played 1sts, hence my 2nd team jersey as my avatar. You too bloody poop scared to even say who you support, year, position etc….
@Vleis Yes the UK school scene is an interesting one. I somehow think SA would come out on tops in a school vs school basis yet the national age group sides are very evenly matched with England, Wales and Ireland being very competitive at U20 level. The SA games with these countries at U20 level are very close.
@Grassy yes you must be basking in the Glenwood domination after some tough times in the late 90s. Glenwood had a big tough side in 1991 though. I remember that epic game in 91 between DHS and Glenwood at Glenwood where Glenwood came out on top. Our DHS 1990 side was packed with 5 Natal schools caps but we just couldn’t get it together on the pitch.
I spoke to somebody at Glenwood and this is what I found out in Hopper’s official file at Glenwood which they took the trouble to retrieve out of archives states that he played 4ths……….now Hopper if you played 4ths, were you maybe the linesman or the water boy that you know these stats so well?
@McCulleys Workshop: Nope, it certainly wouldn’t include Glenwood, the last time we were top 5 was about 5 years ago. Grey Bloem, Paarl Gim, Affies, Boishaai and Paul Roos would be up there in my choice….
@Vleis: I’m not sure you are right. I think professionalism the world over has infiltrated school sport. It would be great to have an Easter Tourno that included top NZ/AUZ/UK sides. Or an end of season Tri Nations, top 3 SA/AUZ/NZ schools tourno. Not sure whose rankings we would use, if it was Hoppers, Glenwood would play every year (He may also send their 2nd team).
@Grasshopper: How many games did you play for the First XV?
Bleak bleak rugby years at Glenwood. I think over my 5 years there (1992 to 1996) we only had about 5 picked for Natal Schools, David Terblanche (No8 & Captain) & Leyton Pardey (prop) in 1992, Lee Fernandes (prop – 1993), Stuart Kerr (scrumhalf – 1994) & Barrett Pardey (prop – 1995). I might be missing one other……just dark times, that is why as an OB I’m loving the recent success….
@Playa: I watched the College / Gisborne game. College weren’t favourites to win the game, but it started with a confrontational Haka that set the tone for a very physical game. College put in some really big hits and pulled off a very determined win.
@Playa: I promise it was not me.
Ever since Glenwood only have u18 players I have been quiet. I still remember all those 21st parties we had at the Glenwood Tuckshop.
@Henkies: @Grasshopper: @Playa: I agree that it would be great to see strong overseas sides at our festivals.
It’s interesting to note how much more professional our school rugby is now compared to the 90’s. A team like Tonbridge (for example) would take big carrots from Affies now, but were very competitive in those days. I remember watching my nephew’s school (Monmouth, a small Welsh school) lose narrowly to GCB at Saints in about ’93. Monmouth would lose by at least 50 today.
@Henkies: Yep, can name the whole College side as we got our 2nd biggest pasting in history that year from them, lost 6-51 at home! 1995 was our biggest ever, lost 13-61! College;
15 – Gary Van Vuuren
14 – Ross Wilson
13 – William Rorich
12 – Michael Dick
11 – John Camp
10 – Andre Van Vuuren
9 – Matt Botha
8 – Brad Thompson
7 – Nick Cruickshank (ex DHS doing post matric)
6 – Devon Galtrey
5 – John Versfeld
4 – Grant Roodt
3 – Warwick Brant
2 – Richard Kelly
1 – Taso Holman
Ah yes Playa, Grassy – those were great tournaments! It would be great to see another Kiwi or other international side at the Kearsney Festival. It brings another element to the tournament. That Affies / Gisborne match back in 96 felt like a mini test match. That 96 College side was a strong one. Not as strong as their 95 side but still very impressive. (as were pretty much all College sides in the 90s).
@Henkies: DHS had a wonderful side that year too, hence why our win in the Berea derby was so big. Deon Curtis, Andrew Webb, Horse Stewart, Greg Rawlinson, Steve Barretto (ex Kloof), Jason Sivil, Jeff Hall, Jason Allardice, Rowan Schwartz, Clint Hall, Stephen Beck, Brett Van der Merwe, Deta Clark etc etc…
@Henkies: Yes, that’s correct, College beat Gisborne in that tournament. Colleague of mine was in that College side.
@Henkies: Yep, 20 years ago now. I was in those stands watching. One of my best memories of schoolboy rugga. Nothing better than a tourno with strong overseas teams playing strong local ones. College had a very good side that year.
Gisborne won that game Grassy. Affies really dominated possession and territory with their pack. Their lock was outstanding in the lineouts. The Affies kicker just had an off day and it was a very frustrating loss for Affies. College lost to a very strong Tonebridge that day if I’m not mistaken. This is going back a bit now but I’m pretty sure College played Gisborne later in the tournament and beat them. Maybe Gungets can confirm.
@Grasshopper: Eish! None ring a bell. He probably only played in the EC tour.
@Playa: Backline players were;
Simon Roberts
Ian Loffler
Graeme Newlands
Rico Gear
Colin Kerr
Jarred McClutchie
Edward Kerekere
Richard Newman
Stuart Barclay
@Grasshopper: Rico Gear!!! That’s the name I was looking for. He was monstrous himself, and had skills which were off the charts. His centre partner (name has escaped me), went on to play for Samoa if I’m not mistaken. Also a big boy.
@Playa: Gisborne played at the Kearsney Festival that year too, it was to celebrate 75 years. I remember them playing Affies, huge side and Rico Gear was their centre. Also, John Smit was at that tourno playing as prop for PBHS. Affies had Johan Roets at fullback, Edward Coetzee at prop, Skipper Badenhorst at hooker and Philip van der Walt/Sarel Eloff at lock. I can’t remember who won the game though. Tonbridge were there too and a great side.
I remember as a 14 year old in 1996 having to go through the pain of watching a touring Gisborne team dismantle a highly rated Dale at the Graveyard. Never had I seen such quick monster people in my life. To make matters worse, they went on to lose to Selborne the following week. Our headmaster, Mr Andrew, seemed to be more upset about the Selborne win than the Dale loss…and of course, as things went back then, an unhappy headmaster, meant an unhappy 1st XV, which meant an unhappy matric group…and us poor newboys had to be the punching bags. Needless to say, the Dalians went on to give Selborne a proper spanking two weeks later, and the price paid a week later was a loss to Queens in the season ending game at the Rec – first loss to them since May 1992 when Rob Kempson was QC captain. You can guess what Monday morning was like for us newboys
@Beet: good on yer, mate! Indeed a noteworthy thumbsuck…..and you are a brave man, to boot!
Well done on this effort!
@Orbit: Please don’t bring up the war!
St Alban’s raced into a 16 to 0 lead and looked like they’d smash St John’s. To be honest, they should’ve, but then they dropped balls on the try line, started to miss the odd kick, started tackling and passing poorly, suffered from strange ref decisions, etc, etc…and lost the game. I think they’d beat St John’s four times out of five, but this game was the “one”! Boys are devastated, but to be fair to St John’s, they showed lot of heart and have one or two good forwards in the loose.
@Vleis: I wanted to ask you about the St Johns clash against St Albans. Looked like St Albans were in a position to win!
@Vleis: this is a way to release a top 20 while not really realsising one and distract everyone from arguing . haha
Good attempt. The only weakness is Beet trying to be too inclusive of weaker countries. If there was a genuine world school rugby championship, the Top 40 would be dominated by SA and NZ teams, with only one or two others.
Put another way, would any Oz or UK school make the SA top 20? Maybe one or two in total. A few years ago, the best school in NSW (by far) came to the St John’s fest and lost by about 15 to a Jeppe side ranked 30 that year. In other years, highly touted UK schools have received 70 point thrashings from HJS.
That is not to say that the junior rugby is poor in said countries, but rather, that the top junior rugby is played in professional clubs – e.g. Saracens Academy. This means that their depth is way less than the depth in SA or NZ, but it is sufficient to produce good u18 national teams and very good adult national teams.
@Grasshopper: I think that he may have a different “genetic line”
Can you believe that Scumbilo High produced the man who designed the best car of the 20th century; http://www.glenwoodhighschool.co.za/gordon-murray-honoured-greatest-car-20th-century
@BOG: Where is my Westville mate Bonthuis?
@BrotherBear: Certainly Glenwood is too high for sure, although I would say they would beat most UK sides comfortably. My sister reckons there are 42 rugby teams at Westlake!!! They do a school haka instead of a war-cry and practice it nearly everyday at break. She reckons the Maori Boys are huge, most being well over 100kg even in grade 10. Not all muscular of course….would love them to Tour here for Wildeklawer or an Easter Festival…
Word ek ook ingetel?
@BOG: @Speartackle: The original bad boys
Ons vergelyk mos nou appels met pere hier…eish….
Is Monument nie ‘n bietjie hoog nie?
Don’t forget about Naartjie
@Playa: Or Duppie, Festus, Tjoppa, Nonnie, or even Jacob Zuma
@beet: I could swear either Andre T, Speartackle or The Beast hacked into your account today
@beet: Yes, in my head, I already was going to say: “Sir George Grey certainly left a rugby legacy , having the two Greys and Auckland Grammar, in the top 20”, when I discovered that AG was missing. Incredible, but to be fair, times have been a little lean in the last few years for them.
@beet: No disrespect intended towards K (K). I imagine they have a decent team but they have beaten the likes of Hartebeespoort and Wilgerivier, which hardly qualifies them for Top 30.
@Ooorkant Loftus: I drew inspiration from seeing Kalahari Kuruman ranking in the Top 30 on one of the many rankings out this week. It occurred to me that if ever there was a time during the season when anything goes, it’s now, so I produced the World Rankings. It took me many seconds to figure out where teams that did not ever play each other should fit into the big picture. However I do think many of the teams here will feature prominently in their respective countries.
@BOG: Very interesting Bog. I reckon Auckland Grammar would be ranked a few places ahead of Bishops who have a similar international players produced stat.
@Grasshopper: It sounds like Westlake would beat Brackenfell, the biggest school in the W/Cape. The Cape having the highest concentration of SBR talent just like Auckland.
@Grasshopper: I agree, Glenwood is sitting a bit high ?. Interesting to note that the u16 northvaal invitation team beat 24. Blackrock (U18/u19) 43-17, end 2015.
Between the two ? s ….
Got it.
If all else fail then read the manual !!
@Ooorkant Loftus: Read between the “?Question Marks?”
@BOG: My sister is teaching at Westlake Boys High in North Auckland, over 2,000 boys. Their 1st team is immense and they don’t even feature.
And our “brothers” in NZ, Auckland Grammar, having produced the most All Blacks, nowhere on the radar? Immediately discredited. Obviously looked at exclusively over 2 yrs, if that long
@Beet. I can see you getting some “nice” responses on this topic from your old friends. From me never !!!
However if you can elaborate how you got to this draft of rankings, I think the bloggers would like to know.
Biggest Thumbsuck in history! It’s like saying Cape Town is the best city in the world but having never visited Auckland, Melbourne or Vancouver….just dumb!