Exchanges that occurred between a parent and a society referee during and possibly after the under-15A game between Maritzburg College and Westville are drawing quite a bit of attention. It’s believed that the matter is currently being investigated by the heads of the respective schools and there is also bound to be a referee’s report as well as an assessor’s report on the game, which will no doubt include details of the incident/s.
On the one hand we constantly hear stories about parents, some of whom live vicariously through their kids while others plain and simply cannot keep their emotions in check at sports events and sometimes lose control altogether.
Interestingly research suggests that “due to the emotional attachment that exists between parent and child, watching a child play sport can be a stressful experience for parents. The emotional bond, which is an important part of normal development, can partially explain why some parents may behave differently as spectators at youth sport events that they would normally behave in a different context.” – from Towards an understanding of the parent spectator behaviour at youth sport events by Jens Omli, Nicole M LaVoi and Diane M. Wiese-Bjornstal.
On the other hand we are all conscious of the part that a referee plays. There are numerous references to referees as “cheats”or “biased” on a weekly basis. It’s nothing new to schoolboy rugby. These allegations almost seem part and parcel of the game at this level nowadays.
Until this particular incident and the matters giving rise to it are address there is bound to be a lot of questions and a bit of finger-pointing as well.
@QC86: Are you sure one of our spectators didn’t put him to sleep at half time?
@QC86: He must have had a bender at Numbers the night before
You guys have nothing to complain about,our first team ref fell asleep in the change room at halftime and had to be fetched,two weeks ago,i kid you not
@CyndiAtRugby:
Was of course referring to the bloggers, but do apologize for leaving you out, if ever a lady amongst the prick(ly) thorns.
@Gungets Tuft: I agree on the story being left alone! Their is clearly two very different versions of what happened and the refs repot will reflect his version.
Let what ever enquiry takes place take its course and hopefully this matter and all the wild speculation will be laid to rest.
Happy Holidays!!!
@Ploegskaar:
You omitted a description of the bloggers.
@McCulleys Workshop: Attack machines, poepdronk refs, cage fighter spectator dads, potty mouthed laaities, wealthy sugar farmers, Bluff skollies, u/23 KXN CW players and new money toffs. Doesn’t get better than that, the makings of a reality show (or is that a re-run of Dallas?), I tell you
@Gungets Tuft: Agree. wait on full report and limit the damage caused by speculation and selective “facts”.
@Ploegskaar: @McCulleys Workshop:
I not going to tippex these. So funny.
@Gungets Tuft: As an SBR lover, I would hate this to get into the mainstream media – but I fear it will. It’s a big deal and I think there will be criminal charges laid at least. I’ve seen an eye-witness report from a very credible source on the incident. But then there is the part of me which thinks it should. Would be a pity for the kid to get named and shamed by association but perhaps this is what needs to happen – a very public example made of someone. Maybe then, those with pavement-special breeding who do not know how to behave appropriately in a school environment would think twice and maybe three times before pulling something like this again.
I’m still VERY suspicious of where this ‘drunk ref’ angle comes from. A very rotten red herring thrown in by the perp perhaps? Certainly not the case from the report I read and the few people I chatted to today at Kearsney.
@Ploegskaar: great comment, the last outpost war continues without our ability to spell kak or doos.
@WBHS Griffon: For fuck sake, the word is kak, please refer to my earlier posts for correct spelling and use. That kuk-nonsense has no punch, makes you sound like a pussy. Otherwise, do carry on, jou kakpraat is baie vermaaklik.
@TIGER_1: The “story” comes from one of the reports submitted by independent people. There are others. I think that the story should be left alone until the official enquiry is over. I think school rugby will be lucky if it does not make it into the press.
My view is that the sort of language already admitted to has no place at a school, let alone when directed at a ref. it just leads to an impossible situation where we are asking our boys to do as we say, not as we do. Lets see what happens officially
@GreenBlooded: Take your green blinkers off with your little attacks on anything that has Westville’s name on it, you are an embarrassment to true Glenwood supporters and you digging yourself into an even bigger hole with all the Westville bloggers!
Stop talking kuk all the time!
@GreenBlooded: He does have that ability, doesn’t miss or forget a thing, imagine the inner workings of his brain, like the entire floor of government archives. Or like that secretive CIA computer.
@TJ: re: your comment around the said parent physically accosting the ref? I think you have a very vivid imagination. I heard he approached the ref. but physically accosting, I don’t think so. Have you seen an assault charge being laid against the parent. I know of nothing, so stop adding fuel to the fire where none is needed.
@star: “I seem to remember on Rugby 365 a few years back when you were….”. Mate – I can’t remember what I had for breakfast this morning, but you can remember something I said on Rugby 365 a few years back? You must be one of those guys like Rain Main who can memorise the phone directory….
@BuffelsCM: I am allowed to blow covers and be un-PC, with no laaities and therefore no direct interest in any schools and the teams I support, I am as neutral and unaffiliated as they come!
@Ploegskaar: You’ll be surprised !! :
that theatre director was actually doing better than the other 2 mentioned. I’ve tried to be PC about them and now you have blown my cover !!
Your conduct ?? Not too bad I have to admit ploeg !!
@Scrum Doctor: You and I might turn out to be friends then
The crowd is going to roar and carry on, reffing by proxy with an “ooohhhh”” for a dangerous tackle is never going to stop, no issue daarso at all. On record that I don’t like celebrations of big hits but I guess there is no way to stop that in the crowd, only on the field.
No, we are good, I understand what you mean. In fact, better than good, agree 100%.
I think you guys are overestimating the effect of constructive observations by spectators, or chirping as you refer to it, directed at the playing field in general and the match officials in particular. As GB said, these refs are officiating machines, switched on, tuned out and focused as f***. I for one can vouch for this, most of them keep blowing kak, irrespective of my well-meant and invaluable side-line advise, so they definitely don’t hear what I’m saying
@BuffelsCM: Hope my conduct has been acceptable on the occasions that we have watched a game or 2! So you had a kak ref in George and a drunk ref in Malmesbury, sounds like a rough season to date, but they still don’t come close to that theater director that blew the last game I watched at your school
@Scrum Doctor: I’d like to add something about your comments above: ” Parents should learn that by incessant chirping they will in fact turn the ref against their team anyway so its best to shut up and enjoy the game ! ”
During the March holidays my team took part in a tournament in place X. (I’ll rather not mention the town because another blogger told me to concentrate on the coaching and to let the referees be !). We were playing team A from another province. The ref was pretty useless (the opposing coach’s words) and eventually the parents of both (but especially the opponents’ parents) sides were on the ref’s case. They were the clear favourites and our boys really played very well against these huge boys.
It was raining and I was standing behind the posts: therefore I couldn’t hear all the chirps etc.
At one stage the ref wanted to call off the match because of the verbal abuse of the parents. After that most of the decisions went against us and we lost (I’ll admit that) by a margin of 4 points. The irony is that the chirping of the parents of our opposition caused the change in the ref’s attitude (from being poor to being one-eyed in his decisions). He thought that it was our team’s parents.
So the ref turned against us but these things happen. I have told my boys on numerous occasions that it is no use arguing with any referee. He’ll never change his call. Respect him during the match and complain afterwards to me but never on the field.
Last year we played in a Boland town. The boys complained afterwards about the ref smelling of alcohol. When our first team played, the referee swore at our first team’s coaches and made some really bad decisions. Afterwards even the principal of the hosts apologized about the ref !!
@Gungets Tuft: I am referreing to the roar that goes up when the crowd “see ” a forward pass or when the ref does not pick up that the ball was carried into the 22 – What I am not advocating is “hey ref you are a cheat” – this is simply unacceptable ! I my experiance many of the spectators do not know there a subtle differences between the rules for school boys and senior players and this often leads to allegations ( falsely) being made . My final comment – its a game and keep it like that . Mistakes will happen and one persons mistake is clear evidence to another that someone is cheating – this is simply not the case . Remeber a good ref is needed for agood game !
@Griffonfly: Not to worry – an independent report has been prepared by the assessor and handed in. I am sure that the respective schools can sort it out.
@Scrum Doctor: Chirping the ref has always been part of the fun??. It has, and how can it not be directed at the individual .. there is only one ref, how else can it be directed. Once all the refs have been chirped out of the game, who is going to blow?
@star: Realising, of course, that the fact that your teams win at Westville and not at College could be seen in exactly the same light as you seem to be indicating. There is no foregone conclusion that what happens at Westville is fair and that College cheat. Depending on your side of the fence, it could be seen the other way by College. Just saying …..
And at Westville “that U16 side” drew – your statement that College U16 “did not win a game” is a trifle misleading .. yes?
Does Westville use society refs, and down to which open team and which age group teams … you can say it as subtly as you like, the underlying theme to your posting is that the refs at College are biased.
While chirping the ref has always been “part of the fun” at Rugby it must not be allowed to become personal – in other words not directed at the individual . Regardless of who is in the right this cannot be allowed to continue and I urge the schools to deal with it harshly ( parent to be banned from atending games and the ref society to decide on the refs part in this ) We did see some howlers of decissions coming out of the games but we also have to accept what we get from the ref as he is hopefully only doing his job to the best of his ability . PArents should learn that by incessant chirping they will in fact turn the ref agaist their team anyway so its best to shut up and enjoy the game ! There were two incidents that I saw on Saturday which caused plenty of potential problems – a blatent kick to the grion of a player in the U16 A game and a wild headbutt in the 3rd team game . The total of these two incedents was one yellow card ( both reds in my opinion) so some proper action would have been apreciated . Still no excuses – parents shut up and leave the ref to do his job !
@ Westers this game was played on Snows.
@TJ I do not think the result is not being questioned, but a poor refereeing display including the red cards for the parent and the boy.
@ Greenblooded- You have mentioned the great College side that is unbeaten since U14. Did you know that the whole age group were well beaten as U14s by Westville? The next year at College Westville managed one win. Back at Westville as U16s College did not win a game,Out of interest I followed the C team who won 50-0 as U14s. The year later at College they lost by 10. The week before as part of a stagger they won by 20( a 30 point turnaround). As U16s they won comfortably again.I am a great believer in form line and the above is on its head. I seem to remember on Rugby 365 a few years back when you were at College supporting GW that you felt there was a subtle “trend” at play. That year GW won 3 games but more than 4 X at home.
) but could this not be Freudian slip of note. Ideally SBR should be all about the boys and their enjoyment of the game. We would be naive however to think that it does not mean a lot more( just ask the schools playing catch up at the moment). The game in question was between 2 unbeaten teams. Had Westville won they would have gained great momentum into next year besides the fact that Westville would have swept Snows and won more games than they lost against College for the first time in their history .Unfortunately with the intense competition for boys now these things are given undue importance but that is our current reality. This is of course pie in the sky stuff but think back to our feelings around the performance of one Bryce Lawrence and the subsequent reward of referee of the year.As McCulley says I am the master of arbitrage 
McCulleys refers to me giving backhanders sometimes in “kind”( I am not sure what that means
@Westers: Snows
@GreenBlooded: Or it might read:
Ref overwhelmed by spectator
or
Refs winning streak comes to an end – beaten for the first time on Saturday
or
Spectator too strong for ref
or
Ref dominated by spectator
or
Spectator on a high after beating ref
All a play on the WBHS website headlines that you and Grassy love so much.
All in jest – not condoning the incident in any way whatsoever.
@TJ: What game took place on Goldstones where this happened? I sat on Goldstones from 9:30 until after the 1sts had played and never saw a thing.
It can be difficult to keep emotions in check when witnessing a particularly inept refereeing display whether you are playing on the field, in the stands, or in front of your TV watching Bryce Lawrence whistle us out of the World Cup.
The problem with poor referees is that they tend to miss a lot on both sides and we, especially if we lose, tend only to see the bad decisions that went against us leading to the usual accusations of bias or cheating.
The two things that I found helped to keep a sanity check on my emotions when watching as a parent was the recognition that many of the referees entrusted with the junior games are inexperienced and often young as well, and, most importantly, the dread of embarrassing one of my kids as I have seen some parents do.
@Greenblooded: I hope so as its the true story!!
@TJ: So will the billboard read “Westville Hammers Referee” ?
A pissed or high ref hahahahaha, that is brilliant!
@Tiger_1: So the awarding of one try led to Westville losing? What about your beloved parent physically accosting the ref after the game on Goldstones?
minus that try and Westville are still 20 points behind College so as far as I can see it College were the better side?
@beet: There is no excuse for the parents behaviour. We are not condoning this sort of behaviour at all, but I know the parent in question, and I watched rugby matches with him on numerous occasions and there has never been an outburst of this sort before. He has always been very quite and most respectful of what transpires on the pitch.
It’s difficult to see one bad call after the other being made, and still keep quite. A knock advantage to Westville from a lineout ended in a try for College. There was clearly no advantage to Westville and I was among a number of spectators that witnessed the refs. call. When questioned about the knock he denied it. This is when the spectator called him a cheat.
The spectator moved off from the sideline and proceeded to leave the field. What transpired after that……..I am not sure, but the player then got red carded
Just one other point around why these theories of bias creep in. Westville’s u15 A’s and B’s scores have always followed a similar trend when playing against a particular school. This trend was thrown on its head the past Saturday. The u15B’s thumped College yet Westville u15A’s lost 5/27. There is no ways that the depth in this age group is so bad. This should have been the match of the season in this age group yet it turnout to be anything but that. Even the College parenst I spoke to were in agreement with me on this point.
@GreenBlooded: They probably will be. Individuals names will probably be dragged into it and that would be unfortunate for the boy concerned.
@Gungets Tuft: I hope a copy of the report is sent to the powers that be at Westville and that it is dealt with in the appropriate manner.
@Gungets Tuft: Indeed a man beyond reproach. I’ll second that. So as it turns out, this chap really picked the wrong day to behave like a banshee on the side of a field. Some very well known rugby personalities were watching. As for trying export the blame – the truth will out. I wonder if those new headlines you speak of will be plastered all over Facebook and school websites?
@TIGER_1: what is your opinion about the parent’s behaviour tho. Acceptable or unacceptable?
@TIGER_1: As it turns out, the ref in question was being assesed by the Union on Saturday. This means that a senior referee shadows him the whole game, speaks to him at 1/2 time about his performance, and is naturally on hand to witness the entire refereeing performance.
The assessor is an extremely well known man, well respected, and (in my mind anyway) beyond reproach. This certainly kills all the trash-talk about the ref being drunk. It also brings up the certainty that there will be a refs report as well as an assessors report into both the refs performance as well as the incidents on the field, as well as conduct after the match was completed.
Good luck everyone, this incident is not going away. The headline writers might just get to practice their art again this week.
@GreenBlooded: Inconclusive from the photos. But I agree – unlikely to go with a grudge against any team or any player / parent for the bucks or for the possibility of getting a poor rating/grading and having to stay doing junior rugby.
And refs get it wrong often – but I am fairly confident that it is not to try and swing a game or match fix (as a society ref). Even the masters that I have watched here in KZN are pretty good and balanced.
@Gungets Tuft: Needles are so passé,
@McCulleys Workshop: Ahh, sorry, it’s that dull humour of mine. I should get it seen to but I am afraid of needles …
@GreenBlooded:
Sorry – left out this link in my post above.
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.381839085269542.1073741886.357124367741014&type=1
@TIGER_1: These are the only photo’s I have seen of the match. The ref can be seen in a few of them. Can’t really tell from these photo’s if he is hammered or not. Do you have other photos to back this allegation? Where does this theory come from all of a sudden. I sincerely hope that it is not a case of racial stereotyping!!!! I’m not taking sides here – I don’t know what happened. Just very interested that this ‘drunk ref’ theory suddenly surfaces 4 days after the incident.
@McCulleys Workshop: I was thinking, glazed, maybe TIK?
@Gungets Tuft: No, I just thought I would humor your point and this ‘I’m the ref and I’m out to get you’ concept. A bit like the old squad cars signature, people in fast cars, waiting in dark places! Jeez, I can think of 1000 things I rather do with my Saturday than the premeditated stalk and pounce on some innocent poor unsuspecting starry eyed Westville parent. For 75 bucks I’m sure the ref thought the same way, unless Sun, Star and Westers were offering a reverse arbitrage option!?! Back to the double or quits.
@Griffin supporter: I think I clearly said that I didn’t have all the facts. Why attack me on this?? I said clearly that I didn’t see what happened and that I don’t know the ref in question. Maybe re-read my post. Obviously you didn’t have all the facts either at the time and have now stumbled onto some new info and are now suddenly an expert on what went down. Where did this drunk theory come from all of a sudden? I’m all ears.
@McCulleys Workshop: The impression being given is that there was this drunken ref, intent on causing trouble, that seemed to find one poor innocent bystander in the crowd and for no reason at all just start abusing him. Not defending the ref, or attacking the victim, just asking if there was not some sort of provocation involved.
It matters not, for every red card a ref issues the need to submit a report to the Union, or so I am told. It will all out.
Were you there – did you see it – we all need a little independent view of the incident. Perhaps Griffon Supporter or Tiger 1 can actually give us their eye witness report of how this guy got singled out.
@McCulleys Workshop: my bad, NAVY
@Gungets Tuft: well the balance of the audience looked like the set from a Giles magazine, so no point in attacking them, the obvious choice was the sparkly eyed, waxed haired person with a navel blue and maroon shirt, scripted on the front with ‘WBHS PARENT 2013’. Seems obvious, why the question?
@Griffin supporter: Do you have any idea why the ref would have singled out this parent for attention when he had the entire gallery to choose from?
@Griffin supporter
I agree totally with your comment around @greenblooded’s colleague to have taken a breathalyzer test. I have seen photos taken of this ref and the glazed look on his face tells a story.
@Griffin supporter: I wonder what the parent said to the ref anyway to get red carded?
@Greenblooded…please if you DO NOT have all the facts don’t mention the incident at College!
A breathalyser for your counterpart probably would have been a good idea….